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GATES: I'm
Henry Louis Gates, Jr.

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Welcome to
"Finding Your Roots."

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In this episode, we'll meet
actor Ed O'Neill and

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musician Sammy Hagar,

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two men who are about to
discover that their seemingly

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ordinary ancestors concealed
some extraordinary stories.

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O'NEILL: I always
wanted to know this.

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Ever since I was a little kid,
I'd ask everybody.

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GATES: But they didn't know.

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O'NEILL: It went way into
the murky past and it was gone.

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HAGAR: There was a lot of
secrecy going on with them.

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And now I see it.
I totally see this now.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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HAGAR: They didn't
talk about anything.

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GATES: To uncover their roots,

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we've used every
tool available...

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Genealogists combed
through the paper trail

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their ancestors left behind,

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while DNA experts
utilized the latest advances in

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genetic analysis to reveal
secrets hundreds of years old.

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And we've compiled everything
into a book of life...

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A record of all of
our discoveries...

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O'NEILL: Oh my God!
That's amazing!

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HAGAR: I don't know
if I'm ready for this.

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GATES: And a window
into the hidden past.

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O'NEILL: That's
really something.

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GATES: That's when they
stopped being Europeans

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and became Americans.

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O'NEILL: Well, I never
thought I'd see it.

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GATES: What's it like
to find this out?

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HAGAR: Oh, it's crazy.

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This is lunacy, man.
This is so beyond my...

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This is like trying to think
about black holes and stuff.

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O'NEILL: It's this old story,
you know, of America and

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the immigrants and the struggle.

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GATES: They didn't succumb.

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O'NEILL: Boy, I'm glad
I came here today.

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GATES: My two guests are tied
together by a common thread...

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Both descend from
ancestors who hid the most

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basic details about their
lives from their families,

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leaving their descendants to
wonder who they really were.

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In this episode,

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we're going to reveal what
has been hidden for generations,

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forever altering
how Sammy and Ed see themselves.

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(theme music plays)

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♪ ♪

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(book closes)

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♪ ♪

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GATES: Ed O'Neill is
living proof that you can have

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a second act.

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In 1987, he came to
fame as the star of

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“Married with Children”,

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one of the most
popular sitcoms of all time...

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Almost two decades later,
Ed did it again,

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starring in “Modern Family”

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another groundbreaking and
enormously successful hit...

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Along the way,

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Ed also found time
for Hollywood movies,

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and Broadway dramas...

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A body of work that
is truly amazing...

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But, to hear Ed tell it,

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his entire career has been
a string of happy accidents,

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stretching back long
before he even thought about

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a career...

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Ed grew up in Youngstown, Ohio,

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in the shadows of
the steel mills where

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his father worked...

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There were no actors in his
family or artists of any kind,

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but, as a young boy,

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Ed found himself drawn
to the local movie theater,

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where he discovered
that he had a unique gift.

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O'NEILL: I remember we
would go on Saturdays because

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they had a cartoon festival.

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There'd be twenty cartoons.

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GATES: "Tom and Jerry".

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O'NEILL: Yeah.
"Casper the Friendly Ghost".

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GATES: Yeah.
O'NEILL: It was all that stuff.

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And then there was
usually a, a feature film,

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whatever that would be.

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If it was "Spartacus" or
it was a John Wayne,

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it was a cowboy or
whatever it was.

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And often I would come
back to the neighborhood and

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I would tell my
friends the movie.

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I would act it out
for them, often.

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GATES: Huh.

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O'NEILL: And, and then,
if they went to see it,

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usually they'd come
back and they'd say,

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"It wasn't that good."

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(laughter).

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GATES: “We liked
your version better.”

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O'NEILL: I, you, I would
improve on it somehow.

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GATES: Perhaps unsurprisingly,

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Ed's acting talents would
initially remain untapped.

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Growing up, his main
focus was football, and,

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for a time, he excelled...

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He was a star defensive lineman
at Youngstown State University

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and was drafted by the
Pittsburgh Steelers after

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his senior year.

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But that was as far as
football would take him,

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he was cut during his first
training camp and found himself

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back in Youngstown,

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aimless and struggling
until a chance encounter with

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his city's playhouse
gave him a new direction.

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O'NEILL: I had a pretty
rocky patch for a while.

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I was drinking and I was
getting in fights in bars...

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GATES: Uh-huh.

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O'NEILL: And being kind of
reckless in that way.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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O'NEILL: And then I saw an ad
in the "Youngstown Vindicator"

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for tryouts for a play.

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And I think it was
"The Rainmaker".

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And I had seen the movie
with Burt Lancaster.

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GATES: Right, right.
O'NEILL: So I went out.

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You know, and I went in
and they had tryouts and

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I know that I imitated
Burt Lancaster.

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It was terrible.
I know I was.

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And of course that these
plays at the Playhouse,

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I found out much later
when I started working there,

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that they were precast.

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They had a group of
actors that they...

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GATES: Sure.

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O'NEILL: They built
their season around.

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They have to.

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GATES: Right.

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O'NEILL: And the
director said, you know,

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they don't get many
guys like me out there,

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so he said,

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"You know, we're
doing Antigone,"

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which was that Greek classic.

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GATES: Yeah, of course. Yeah.

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O'NEILL: I was a spear.
I held a spear.

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I was a Greek soldier.
I did that and I loved it.

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And I watched the ones
with the big parts with all,

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you know, the scenes
and the dialogue.

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And I thought,
“Man, I like this.”

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GATES: That realization
changed Ed's life.

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he soon returned to
Youngstown State,

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this time to study acting.

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He was among the oldest
students in his class and

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he was out of sync with
his department's schedule,

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but he wasn't about to
let that stop him...

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O'NEILL: So I had missed the
first semester where they had

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"Beginning Acting."

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This was "Advanced Acting."

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But I talked 'em into
letting me into the, I said,

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"Oh, I'm at the Playhouse.

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I do plays."

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I didn't tell 'em
it's this, you know...

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(mimes holding a spear).

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GATES: “I've studied
Burt Lancaster.”

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O'NEILL: Yes.

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And so I went there and you
have to learn monologues,

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and you have to do scenes.

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And I was awful.

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But I kept at it.

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GATES: Yeah.

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O'NEILL: And I
progressed really quickly.

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You know, and then I
started doing the leads.

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GATES: Yeah.
So what'd your parents say?

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O'NEILL: My mother loved it,

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but I was already like 24,
now 25.

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GATES: Yeah.
And your dad?

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O'NEILL: He was
like this, you know?

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(scratching).

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GATES: Yeah.
But would he go see you?

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O'NEILL: No.
GATES: No.

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O'NEILL: He was working.
GATES: Yeah.

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O'NEILL: So, and I think
my mother only went to a few,

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but I didn't need any of that.

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I didn't care...

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GATES: Right.

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O'NEILL: Who went
to see it, I liked it.

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GATES: My second
guest is Sammy Hagar,

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the legendary rock star
and former lead singer

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of “Van Halen”

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Blessed with an
infectious enthusiasm and

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seemingly boundless energy,

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Sammy has sold
millions of records,

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packed stadiums
all over the world,

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and is still going strong
after all these years.

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Accomplishments that are all
the more impressive given how

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he started out...

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Sammy was born in
Salinas, California,

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where his parents were
itinerant farm laborers.

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When he was two years old,

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the family moved to
the nearby city of Fontana

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so his father could take
a job at a steel mill...

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It seemed like a move
towards stability,

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but Sammy's father was
bringing demons with him.

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HAGAR: The home life
was pretty rough.

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My dad's boss was an
alcoholic like my dad,

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and they went to AA
together and they'd get sober...

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and then my dad
would go on a drunk first,

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and Huey wouldn't fire him
because he felt sorry for him,

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because it, you know,
he had the same problem.

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And so it seemed like my
dad never would lose his job.

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He would go on a
drunk for a month.

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And he was a violent drunk.

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He'd beat my mom up,
beat the neighbors up.

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Never the kids.
He never touched the kids...

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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HAGAR: But he would, he
would beat anybody else up.

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Cop would pull him over,

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he'd beat him up, and,
you know, drive back home.

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They'd come and knock on
the door and he'd get up and

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fight them again out in the...

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I mean, he was a
complete madman.

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GATES: That had to
be hard, though, man.

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HAGAR: It, it was hard.
GATES: Yeah.

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HAGAR: So my mom
would have to leave.

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And, you know, some
relatives would take us in,

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and if they didn't,
we'd sleep in the car.

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GATES: Sammy's
mother did her best,

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00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,866
but his father would
eventually lose everything,

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00:09:45,866 --> 00:09:49,233
including his life,
to alcoholism...

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Yet Sammy did not let his
parents' struggles destroy him.

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He found salvation in music.

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he had no training, but
he had a powerful voice,

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00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,833
and his friends soon noticed
that he also possessed

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00:10:04,833 --> 00:10:06,633
a special skill...

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00:10:07,833 --> 00:10:10,566
HAGAR: We'd go to the beach
and they'd turn on the radio and

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I could sing to
every song on the radio.

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I knew the words.

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00:10:13,333 --> 00:10:15,600
Just, and I still do
not use a teleprompter.

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I've written 400 or 500 songs.

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I can sing damn near
every lyric without...

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For some reason,
I'm good at that.

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So I'd, my friends
used to go,

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"Oh man, how do
you know that song?"

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I'd say, "I just know it."

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You know, I'd say, "Oh yeah,
turn the radio up.

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00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:27,733
Hey, how about this one?"

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So I'd play that, that tune.

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I'd start singing the song.

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And then one of my friends
became a,

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got a guitar,
and he was saying,

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"Hey man, you be the singer,
I'll be the guitar player."

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I said, "Okay" and then I
started learning to play guitar.

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GATES: Mmm.

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00:10:39,266 --> 00:10:42,400
HAGAR: And what I found was
we would play in our garage

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00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,333
and some friends
would come over,

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and they would stay.

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00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:47,833
You know, they'd
sit and watch us play,

244
00:10:47,833 --> 00:10:49,600
and they liked it, you know?

245
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,833
We'd know three songs and
play them over and over again...

246
00:10:51,833 --> 00:10:53,866
And they just thought
it was so cool.

247
00:10:53,866 --> 00:10:57,133
And then they'd go around
telling people about us.

248
00:10:57,133 --> 00:10:58,800
Like, "Oh man,
Sammy's in this band.

249
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,633
But you guys should hear them.
They're really good.

250
00:11:00,633 --> 00:11:01,766
Let's hire them for a party.

251
00:11:01,766 --> 00:11:03,500
We're going to have a
party and make them play."

252
00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:04,900
And I start feeling
like I was somebody...

253
00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:05,933
GATES: Right.

254
00:11:05,933 --> 00:11:07,166
HAGAR: Because
at that stage,

255
00:11:07,166 --> 00:11:08,233
I knew what was
going on in my world.

256
00:11:08,233 --> 00:11:09,266
I had nothing.

257
00:11:09,266 --> 00:11:10,533
GATES: Mm-hmm.

258
00:11:10,533 --> 00:11:13,266
HAGAR: But that changed
everything right there.

259
00:11:13,266 --> 00:11:15,900
GATES: This band was the
launch pad for a journey that

260
00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:18,333
is still unfolding.

261
00:11:18,333 --> 00:11:21,000
After more than five
decades in the limelight,

262
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,833
Sammy is still
touring and recording.

263
00:11:23,833 --> 00:11:26,300
And, perhaps most
significantly,

264
00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,500
he hasn't lost his
passion along the way.

265
00:11:29,833 --> 00:11:32,566
Indeed, he still retains the
boyish enthusiasm

266
00:11:32,566 --> 00:11:36,266
of his youth, and
even credits much of his success

267
00:11:36,266 --> 00:11:38,000
to the lessons he learned,

268
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,033
for better or worse,
from his parents...

269
00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:45,566
HAGAR: My father made me
driven that I don't ever want

270
00:11:45,566 --> 00:11:48,633
to be poor and be embarrassed
ever again in my life.

271
00:11:48,633 --> 00:11:51,033
So, it drove,
it drove me to be,

272
00:11:51,033 --> 00:11:53,733
to elevation, to,
uh, enlighten myself.

273
00:11:53,733 --> 00:11:54,833
GATES: Mm-hmm.

274
00:11:54,833 --> 00:11:56,100
HAGAR: And my mom
taught me how to make

275
00:11:56,100 --> 00:11:57,100
something from nothing.

276
00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:58,266
GATES: Mm-hmm.

277
00:11:58,266 --> 00:11:59,800
HAGAR: My mom was
just frugal, man.

278
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:00,933
She, you could not...

279
00:12:00,933 --> 00:12:02,500
if you said, "Mom,
uh... hey mom,

280
00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:03,766
we got nothing to eat,"

281
00:12:03,766 --> 00:12:05,500
she'd say,
"Get in the car."

282
00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:06,700
We'd go out, drive around.

283
00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:07,833
She'd see an orange grove,

284
00:12:07,833 --> 00:12:08,866
"Let's go pick
some oranges."

285
00:12:08,866 --> 00:12:10,500
She'd go down,
there's a potato,

286
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:12,766
potato patch that the workers
were gone for the day.

287
00:12:12,766 --> 00:12:14,466
"Come on, there's
potatoes in here.

288
00:12:14,466 --> 00:12:15,600
Take some potatoes."

289
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,633
I'm dead serious.

290
00:12:16,633 --> 00:12:18,833
And it would be like,
"Wow, mom! This is fun."

291
00:12:18,833 --> 00:12:19,866
My whole family...

292
00:12:19,866 --> 00:12:21,100
GATES: “We're going shopping!”

293
00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,433
HAGAR: We'd jump out and raid,
raid a strawberry patch,

294
00:12:23,433 --> 00:12:26,200
and then we'd go home and
my mom would whip something up

295
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:27,400
and we'd go,

296
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,266
“Man, Mom, that was fun.
That was great.”

297
00:12:29,266 --> 00:12:30,500
We'd go fishing.

298
00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:32,433
We'd go up to the little
stream up in Lyle Creek where

299
00:12:32,433 --> 00:12:33,866
they used to have little trout.

300
00:12:33,866 --> 00:12:36,166
Me and my brother and my mom
would go catch some trout.

301
00:12:36,166 --> 00:12:40,566
I mean, it was, my mom was,
man, she was creative.

302
00:12:40,566 --> 00:12:42,600
GATES: Yeah.
HAGAR: She was really creative.

303
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,166
GATES: She made a
way out of no way.

304
00:12:44,166 --> 00:12:45,666
HAGAR: Yeah, she's an optimist.
Completely.

305
00:12:45,666 --> 00:12:47,333
And I'm a complete
optimist too, yeah.

306
00:12:47,333 --> 00:12:49,433
GATES: Yeah, me too.
Takes one to know one.

307
00:12:49,433 --> 00:12:50,633
(Sammy laughs).

308
00:12:52,766 --> 00:12:56,166
GATES: My two guests
are both self-creations...

309
00:12:56,166 --> 00:12:58,566
Nothing in their
family backgrounds even

310
00:12:58,566 --> 00:13:02,200
hinted that either of
them might be successful.

311
00:13:02,966 --> 00:13:05,733
They did it all on their own.

312
00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:08,900
But as we looked
into their roots,

313
00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:12,100
we discovered that each
had ancestors who were

314
00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:15,366
self-creations of
a different kind...

315
00:13:15,633 --> 00:13:18,300
People who harbored
secret identities,

316
00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:21,466
or who reinvented
themselves entirely.

317
00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:25,733
It was time to bring
their stories to light.

318
00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:30,400
I started with Ed O'Neill
and with his father,

319
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,400
a steelworker, and landscaper
with an exhausting schedule,

320
00:13:34,733 --> 00:13:38,200
who still exuded a sense of
warmth towards his children.

321
00:13:39,466 --> 00:13:42,266
O'NEILL: I remember he would
come home from landscaping and

322
00:13:42,266 --> 00:13:44,566
then he might go out on
the 11:00 to 7:00 shift.

323
00:13:44,566 --> 00:13:46,600
So he would sleep,

324
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,333
often in the T-shirt
and work clothes.

325
00:13:49,333 --> 00:13:52,500
He'd lie on the living
room floor and pass out.

326
00:13:52,933 --> 00:13:56,500
My brother and I would play on
top of him like he was a fort.

327
00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:58,366
And my mother would say,

328
00:13:58,366 --> 00:13:59,866
"Leave your father alone."

329
00:13:59,866 --> 00:14:01,133
And he'd wake up and say,

330
00:14:01,133 --> 00:14:03,000
"No, it's okay.
I like them."

331
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,366
GATES: Yeah, I bet he did.

332
00:14:04,366 --> 00:14:06,900
O'NEILL: Yeah.
He liked us around him.

333
00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:10,966
GATES: This attitude was all
the more surprising given the

334
00:14:10,966 --> 00:14:14,066
way that Ed's father was raised.

335
00:14:14,433 --> 00:14:16,666
he grew up during
the great depression,

336
00:14:16,666 --> 00:14:20,133
in a home that was
anything but warm...

337
00:14:20,933 --> 00:14:23,433
O'NEILL: My father
was the last of three.

338
00:14:23,433 --> 00:14:24,900
And he was an accident.

339
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:26,666
GATES: Yeah.

340
00:14:26,666 --> 00:14:28,733
O'NEILL: And they didn't
have a lot of money.

341
00:14:28,733 --> 00:14:30,233
And his dad
worked in the mill...

342
00:14:30,233 --> 00:14:31,500
GATES: Mm-hmm.

343
00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:33,533
O'NEILL: And I think he suffered
from high blood pressure.

344
00:14:33,533 --> 00:14:35,300
And then in those days,
they treated it with a pill

345
00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:37,133
that gave you depression.

346
00:14:37,133 --> 00:14:38,233
GATES: Oh, man.

347
00:14:38,233 --> 00:14:39,566
O'NEILL: So I
never had a conversation

348
00:14:39,566 --> 00:14:40,600
with my grandfather.

349
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,166
It was just,
“Hello.” That was it.

350
00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:45,366
GATES: Your brother told us
that your grandfather was like

351
00:14:45,366 --> 00:14:46,633
a “dark cloud.”

352
00:14:46,633 --> 00:14:48,566
O'NEILL: Yeah.

353
00:14:49,366 --> 00:14:52,766
GATES: Ed's grandfather,
a man named Joseph O'Neill,

354
00:14:52,766 --> 00:14:55,800
never discussed his
job in the steel mill,

355
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,000
much less the impact it
might have had on his health,

356
00:14:59,933 --> 00:15:02,900
and there was an aspect
of his career that took

357
00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:05,433
Ed by surprise...

358
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,066
Records show that by 1930,

359
00:15:08,066 --> 00:15:12,033
Joseph had worked his way up to
being a foreman at his company,

360
00:15:12,033 --> 00:15:15,866
a promotion that likely
brought daunting challenges.

361
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,966
At the time, America was in the
depths of the great depression,

362
00:15:20,966 --> 00:15:25,400
and steel mills across the
country were bleeding money.

363
00:15:26,066 --> 00:15:30,666
According to scholars,
between 1931 and 1935,

364
00:15:31,233 --> 00:15:36,500
Joseph's company lost roughly
$30 million and soon began to

365
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:39,233
cut wages and workers...

366
00:15:41,266 --> 00:15:42,533
O'NEILL: I never realized that.

367
00:15:42,533 --> 00:15:46,866
GATES: $30 million in 1935
is roughly $650 million today.

368
00:15:46,866 --> 00:15:49,533
That's serious money.

369
00:15:49,533 --> 00:15:50,900
O'NEILL: I never knew that.

370
00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:55,400
GATES: In response, the mill
laid off thousands of employees.

371
00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,533
By April 1933, US Steel had
half the employees that it did

372
00:16:00,533 --> 00:16:02,733
just four years earlier.

373
00:16:02,733 --> 00:16:05,133
O'NEILL: See, I didn't
know any of this history.

374
00:16:05,133 --> 00:16:06,533
I did not know it.

375
00:16:06,533 --> 00:16:07,966
GATES: Your grandfather
never talked about,

376
00:16:07,966 --> 00:16:09,000
you never heard stories?

377
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,400
O'NEILL: I never talked to him.

378
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,833
GATES: Well, let's see
what happened next.

379
00:16:11,833 --> 00:16:13,800
Please turn the page.

380
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,733
O'NEILL: I mean, I said “Hello”"

381
00:16:15,733 --> 00:16:19,266
GATES: Yeah.
O'NEILL: Wow.

382
00:16:21,666 --> 00:16:24,600
GATES: On May 26, 1937,

383
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,900
steelworkers in
Ohio voted to strike,

384
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:30,033
part of a larger action
that would soon spread

385
00:16:30,033 --> 00:16:32,400
across seven states...

386
00:16:32,966 --> 00:16:34,500
As a foreman,

387
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:36,800
Ed's grandfather was
management and would have been

388
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,033
charged with keeping his
mill secure and running,

389
00:16:40,033 --> 00:16:43,100
in spite of the
chaos all around him.

390
00:16:44,133 --> 00:16:46,733
O'NEILL: “More tension
developed in the picket lines.

391
00:16:46,733 --> 00:16:49,600
A mail truck was halted at
the Center Street Bridge”,

392
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:50,966
I know where that is,

393
00:16:50,966 --> 00:16:52,600
“and windows
in the home of a

394
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,533
Republic labor foreman
were smashed.”

395
00:16:54,533 --> 00:16:55,600
GATES: Yep.

396
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,100
And you can see a
photo of the strikers at

397
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:58,533
the plant in Campbell.

398
00:16:58,533 --> 00:17:00,700
O'NEILL: This, this is the
Center Street entrance.

399
00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:03,033
GATES: And that photo is
where your grandfather worked.

400
00:17:03,033 --> 00:17:04,800
O'NEILL: Yes. That's right.
GATES: That's right.

401
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:05,900
O'NEILL: That's correct.

402
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:07,366
GATES: And according
to this article,

403
00:17:07,366 --> 00:17:09,500
strikers began trying
to cut off the food supply

404
00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:12,433
to the men still in the mills.

405
00:17:12,433 --> 00:17:14,233
The picket lines
became a battleground.

406
00:17:14,233 --> 00:17:15,333
Can you imagine?

407
00:17:15,333 --> 00:17:16,566
O'NEILL: Yeah. Yeah.

408
00:17:16,566 --> 00:17:18,366
GATES: And the foremen,
remember they were company men,

409
00:17:18,366 --> 00:17:19,533
didn't escape the violence.

410
00:17:19,533 --> 00:17:21,100
As you could see
in that article,

411
00:17:21,100 --> 00:17:22,900
the windows in the
home of a foreman at

412
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:24,466
Republic were smashed.

413
00:17:24,466 --> 00:17:27,533
Ed, your grandfather
likely faced opposition

414
00:17:27,533 --> 00:17:28,700
from his friends, his neighbors,

415
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,100
and employees who
worked in the mills.

416
00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:33,733
How do you think
he coped with that?

417
00:17:33,733 --> 00:17:38,066
O'NEILL: I can't imagine it.
I can't imagine it.

418
00:17:38,466 --> 00:17:40,966
It may have ruined him.

419
00:17:40,966 --> 00:17:43,466
It may have made
him what he became.

420
00:17:44,733 --> 00:17:47,433
GATES: Over the course
of just a few days,

421
00:17:47,433 --> 00:17:50,233
roughly 20,000
workers in Youngstown walked

422
00:17:50,233 --> 00:17:52,266
off their jobs.

423
00:17:52,266 --> 00:17:55,933
But the steel companies refused
to relent and when the workers'

424
00:17:55,933 --> 00:17:58,966
wives joined their
husbands on the picket line,

425
00:17:58,966 --> 00:18:01,866
the situation rapidly
deteriorated...

426
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,433
O'NEILL: “CIO officials
said police fired tear gas

427
00:18:05,433 --> 00:18:07,333
into their ranks.

428
00:18:07,333 --> 00:18:09,166
Screaming, they gave way,

429
00:18:09,166 --> 00:18:11,700
and scores of
strikers rushed the police,

430
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:13,933
forcing them into
a railroad underpass,

431
00:18:13,933 --> 00:18:17,166
bullets spattered down
from surrounding hills.”

432
00:18:17,166 --> 00:18:18,500
GATES: You ever hear
anything about this?

433
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:19,766
O'NEILL: No.

434
00:18:19,766 --> 00:18:23,333
Well, I did hear that
there were a lot of strikes and

435
00:18:23,333 --> 00:18:24,600
a lot of violence.

436
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,766
GATES: Yeah. And wives.
O'NEILL: Yes.

437
00:18:27,766 --> 00:18:30,033
GATES: After steelworkers'
wives joined the strikers in

438
00:18:30,033 --> 00:18:32,666
the picket line, it had
to be a hell of a mess.

439
00:18:32,666 --> 00:18:34,000
O'NEILL: Oh my God.

440
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,266
GATES: The police
ordered them to leave.

441
00:18:35,266 --> 00:18:36,566
They refused.

442
00:18:36,566 --> 00:18:38,933
The police fired tear gas at
the women and a fight between

443
00:18:38,933 --> 00:18:41,033
the strikers and the
police of course erupted.

444
00:18:41,033 --> 00:18:43,166
Two strikers died, man...

445
00:18:43,166 --> 00:18:45,233
And dozens were injured.
Can you imagine?

446
00:18:45,233 --> 00:18:46,533
O'NEILL: Yeah.

447
00:18:46,533 --> 00:18:50,933
It was, um, it was America as
they knew it in those days.

448
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:57,200
GATES: The strike lasted for
roughly one month before the

449
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,566
governor of Ohio ordered
the mills re-opened,

450
00:19:01,433 --> 00:19:04,466
and called in the
National Guard.

451
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:10,500
In the end, both workers and
management suffered greatly,

452
00:19:10,766 --> 00:19:14,100
and Ed's grandfather seems
to have paid a price ...

453
00:19:15,233 --> 00:19:18,800
Within a year he was no
longer a foreman, but instead,

454
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:23,533
was working as what was
known as a "stocker",

455
00:19:23,733 --> 00:19:26,100
which was not a promotion...

456
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:27,833
He was demoted.

457
00:19:27,833 --> 00:19:28,900
We don't know why...

458
00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:30,300
O'NEILL: He was demoted.
GATES: He was demoted.

459
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:31,700
O'NEILL: Yeah.

460
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:37,400
It could have been something to
do with his inability to lead.

461
00:19:38,633 --> 00:19:39,833
GATES: It could have.

462
00:19:39,833 --> 00:19:41,933
O'NEILL: I mean, he could
have had some kind of a,

463
00:19:41,933 --> 00:19:44,166
I always suspected
that he had some kind of

464
00:19:44,166 --> 00:19:46,733
a nervous breakdown.

465
00:19:46,733 --> 00:19:49,000
GATES: Really?
O'NEILL: Yeah.

466
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,366
But nobody ever said
anything to me about it.

467
00:19:51,366 --> 00:19:53,933
GATES: Mmm.
O'NEILL: That's shocking to me.

468
00:19:55,266 --> 00:19:59,000
GATES: Joseph O'Neill
passed away in 1955,

469
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,266
on Ed's ninth birthday.

470
00:20:02,266 --> 00:20:05,500
Learning more about his
life compelled Ed to think

471
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:07,600
about his own father,

472
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,933
whose spirit was so
dramatically different

473
00:20:09,933 --> 00:20:11,766
from his grandfather's,

474
00:20:11,766 --> 00:20:14,966
giving Ed a new
appreciation for what his

475
00:20:14,966 --> 00:20:17,566
father had endured.

476
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,966
O'NEILL: He was
a Depression kid.

477
00:20:19,966 --> 00:20:21,766
GATES: Right.
O'NEILL: They didn't want him.

478
00:20:21,766 --> 00:20:25,133
And I know that, at his
graduation from high school,

479
00:20:25,133 --> 00:20:26,133
they didn't go.

480
00:20:26,133 --> 00:20:27,133
GATES: Oh, man.

481
00:20:27,133 --> 00:20:28,400
O'NEILL: It was right
down the street.

482
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,900
GATES: That's cold.
O'NEILL: Yeah, it was.

483
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:35,266
So he was very
insecure about that.

484
00:20:35,266 --> 00:20:38,166
And so when he had
the kids, it was like...

485
00:20:38,166 --> 00:20:39,733
GATES: That's his family.
O'NEILL: That was it.

486
00:20:39,733 --> 00:20:40,800
GATES: Yeah.

487
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,266
O'NEILL: But you could
never fill that hole.

488
00:20:43,266 --> 00:20:46,200
No matter how much you tried.

489
00:20:48,166 --> 00:20:51,333
GATES: Just like Ed,
Sammy Hagar was the son

490
00:20:51,333 --> 00:20:53,300
of a steelworker,

491
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,533
but his father brought
no stability to the family.

492
00:20:56,866 --> 00:21:00,733
Almost all of the parenting
was left to Sammy's mother and

493
00:21:00,733 --> 00:21:03,666
she suffered terribly at
the hands of her husband...

494
00:21:05,433 --> 00:21:09,100
How did she end up with
that life do you think?

495
00:21:10,866 --> 00:21:12,533
HAGAR: You know, uh,

496
00:21:12,533 --> 00:21:14,533
I really don't have
an answer to that.

497
00:21:14,533 --> 00:21:15,966
I, I wish I did.

498
00:21:15,966 --> 00:21:18,833
It would be easier to
understand and say,

499
00:21:18,833 --> 00:21:20,366
“Okay, I forgive my father.

500
00:21:20,366 --> 00:21:21,733
Or, I forgive my mother.”

501
00:21:21,733 --> 00:21:23,600
I think my mother
was so desperate.

502
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,333
The only thing I could
think of was that she was so

503
00:21:25,333 --> 00:21:27,033
desperate to get out of the,

504
00:21:27,033 --> 00:21:28,566
you know,
the family she had been in.

505
00:21:28,566 --> 00:21:29,933
They were so poor.

506
00:21:29,933 --> 00:21:32,033
They, she lived in her tent her
whole life, you know, in a tent.

507
00:21:32,033 --> 00:21:33,233
GATES: Mmm.

508
00:21:33,233 --> 00:21:34,900
HAGAR: Uh, and I
think she found a man that,

509
00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:36,800
my dad was super confident.

510
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,400
And I think she thought,

511
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,900
“Oh, this man will
take care of me and

512
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:41,433
I could have a decent life.

513
00:21:41,433 --> 00:21:43,433
I can get out of this,
you know, this rut.”

514
00:21:43,433 --> 00:21:45,100
GATES: Yeah.
HAGAR: Yeah.

515
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:46,266
GATES: Poor kid.

516
00:21:46,266 --> 00:21:47,666
HAGAR: And I think she was
afraid to go on her own.

517
00:21:47,666 --> 00:21:48,966
She's like, “What
am I going to do?

518
00:21:48,966 --> 00:21:50,900
I don't have a education.
I don't have a vocation.

519
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:51,966
I don't have a job.”

520
00:21:51,966 --> 00:21:53,633
GATES: She knew how to
get those potatoes and

521
00:21:53,633 --> 00:21:54,633
those strawberries though.

522
00:21:54,633 --> 00:21:56,566
HAGAR: Yeah, she
knew how to survive.

523
00:21:57,466 --> 00:22:00,200
GATES: The tumult of his
mother's life left Sammy

524
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,433
knowing little about her roots.

525
00:22:03,466 --> 00:22:06,133
he'd spent time with
her parents growing up,

526
00:22:06,133 --> 00:22:10,100
but recalls that they were both
quiet and somewhat secretive

527
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:11,800
about the past...

528
00:22:13,366 --> 00:22:16,133
We set out to see what
they'd hidden and focused

529
00:22:16,133 --> 00:22:18,533
on the family of
Sammy's grandmother,

530
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:21,533
Katherine Alessi.

531
00:22:21,733 --> 00:22:23,400
Katherine's parents,

532
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,933
Giacomo and Gertrude Alessi
appear on the 1900 census

533
00:22:27,933 --> 00:22:30,100
for Rochester, New York...

534
00:22:30,766 --> 00:22:34,600
The record shows that Giacomo
was an immigrant from Italy,

535
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,366
with an occupation common
to many immigrants of the day:

536
00:22:38,966 --> 00:22:41,133
He was a fruit dealer.

537
00:22:41,133 --> 00:22:42,166
Did you know that?

538
00:22:42,166 --> 00:22:43,466
HAGAR: Yeah.
No, no, I had no idea.

539
00:22:43,466 --> 00:22:45,566
GATES: Well, when I saw
the words “fruit dealer”,

540
00:22:45,566 --> 00:22:49,800
I pictured a kindly man with a
cart selling apples and oranges

541
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,366
in his neighborhood, right?

542
00:22:51,366 --> 00:22:53,166
But it turns out that's
not exactly what your

543
00:22:53,166 --> 00:22:54,866
great-grandfather was doing.

544
00:22:54,866 --> 00:22:56,500
Please turn the page.

545
00:22:59,166 --> 00:23:01,600
Sammy, this was published
in a newspaper on

546
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,100
July 18th, 1899

547
00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:05,766
in a local
Rochester newspaper.

548
00:23:05,766 --> 00:23:06,800
HAGAR: Rochester new...

549
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,100
Wow!

550
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:09,766
GATES: So, this is one year
before the census we just saw.

551
00:23:09,766 --> 00:23:11,233
Would you please read
what we've transcribed for you

552
00:23:11,233 --> 00:23:12,466
in the white box?

553
00:23:12,466 --> 00:23:14,833
HAGAR: “The residents
of North Street were

554
00:23:14,833 --> 00:23:16,400
startled yesterday afternoon,

555
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,533
by the sharp report
of a pistol shot.

556
00:23:18,533 --> 00:23:22,266
Joseph Lombardo had
been shot by Joseph Alessi,

557
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,400
also known as Ollis.”

558
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,100
Whoa!

559
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:28,133
“Both he and Alessi
are natives of Italy.

560
00:23:28,133 --> 00:23:31,266
The latter came to America
about nine years ago.

561
00:23:31,266 --> 00:23:33,066
He has several
brothers here, Samuel”.

562
00:23:33,066 --> 00:23:34,733
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh!

563
00:23:34,733 --> 00:23:38,100
“who has a fruit store at,
Monroe Avenue and Antonino,

564
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:40,733
who has a fruit
stand on Clinton Avenue.”

565
00:23:40,733 --> 00:23:44,200
These guys were mobsters!
I should have known!

566
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,866
GATES: Sammy's relatives were
indeed "mobsters" of a sort...

567
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,600
Two of Giacomo's brothers,
Samuel and Joseph Alessi,

568
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,566
were fellow fruit dealers,

569
00:23:57,566 --> 00:24:00,666
a job that seems to
have been far more violent

570
00:24:00,666 --> 00:24:04,133
than either Sammy or
I had imagined...

571
00:24:06,366 --> 00:24:08,533
HAGAR: “Lombardo was
driving in his wagon when

572
00:24:08,533 --> 00:24:10,300
he was hailed by Alessi,

573
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:13,100
but other witnesses
say that it was Lombardo

574
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:15,100
who hailed Alessi.

575
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:17,166
He asked the latter
if he intended to

576
00:24:17,166 --> 00:24:18,566
pay him what he owed.”

577
00:24:18,566 --> 00:24:21,166
Oh!
Oh-ho-ho!

578
00:24:21,466 --> 00:24:25,233
“Alessi told a reporter
that he pulled out 75 cents.

579
00:24:25,233 --> 00:24:27,900
Lombardo slapped the
hand away and cried out,

580
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:31,000
‘You owe me $13.'

581
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,866
Then Lombardo is said to
have made a lunge at Alessi.

582
00:24:33,866 --> 00:24:35,766
The latter ran across
the street and went up to

583
00:24:35,766 --> 00:24:37,500
the rooms he occupied.

584
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:39,733
A few seconds later he
rushed back into the street

585
00:24:39,733 --> 00:24:41,533
flourishing a revolver.”

586
00:24:41,533 --> 00:24:42,900
Wow!

587
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:45,966
“When Lombardo started to run
away Alessi raised the weapon,

588
00:24:45,966 --> 00:24:49,000
leveled it, and
deliberately shot at Lombardo.

589
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,200
Within an hour,
Alessi was in custody.”

590
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,633
Wow!

591
00:24:54,066 --> 00:24:59,000
GATES: This is your relative
shooting another man over $13.

592
00:24:59,233 --> 00:25:01,900
HAGAR: This is unbelievable.

593
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:04,533
Uh, but my
grandparents were quiet.

594
00:25:04,533 --> 00:25:05,900
You know, like I said, it,

595
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:07,600
I think they had a lot
of ghosts that they

596
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,633
didn't talk about.

597
00:25:08,633 --> 00:25:09,866
GATES: Yeah.
Well, now you know why.

598
00:25:09,866 --> 00:25:11,300
HAGAR: Oh my goodness.
GATES: Yeah.

599
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:13,233
HAGAR: This is unbelievable!

600
00:25:13,233 --> 00:25:15,266
Ohhh!

601
00:25:15,566 --> 00:25:18,400
GATES: When the victim of
the shooting eventually died,

602
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,966
Joseph Alessi was charged
with murder and was sentenced

603
00:25:21,966 --> 00:25:24,466
to 12 years in prison.

604
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,566
Records show that his
brother Giacomo left New York

605
00:25:28,566 --> 00:25:32,266
soon after moving his
family to California,

606
00:25:32,266 --> 00:25:35,833
where Sammy's grandmother
Katherine would be born.

607
00:25:36,166 --> 00:25:39,100
But this story
does not end here.

608
00:25:39,566 --> 00:25:42,633
back in New York,
the Alessis still faced

609
00:25:42,633 --> 00:25:45,166
a shocking retribution...

610
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:51,500
In 1911, Joseph's 28-year-old
son Antonio was found dead with

611
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:55,500
his throat cut so viciously
that his head was nearly

612
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:58,433
severed from his body...

613
00:25:58,433 --> 00:26:02,766
HAGAR: Wow. Wow.
GATES: They got his son.

614
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,800
HAGAR: Man, $13!
GATES: Yeah.

615
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,533
HAGAR: That's what just
keeps going back in my head.

616
00:26:08,533 --> 00:26:10,166
GATES: And they tried...
HAGAR: This started with $13.

617
00:26:10,166 --> 00:26:11,433
GATES: $13...

618
00:26:11,433 --> 00:26:12,700
HAGAR: This guy's cutting
people's heads off.

619
00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:14,166
GATES: And they tried
to decapitate him.

620
00:26:14,166 --> 00:26:17,900
HAGAR: Oh, it's, wow.

621
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:19,466
GATES: And you never
heard anything about

622
00:26:19,466 --> 00:26:20,666
this coming down...

623
00:26:20,666 --> 00:26:22,100
HAGAR: No.
GATES: From your family tree?

624
00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:23,400
Nothing.

625
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,733
HAGAR: No.
GATES: Please turn the page.

626
00:26:24,733 --> 00:26:26,600
HAGAR: Yes.

627
00:26:26,933 --> 00:26:30,033
GATES: Sammy, this article
was published on June 16, 1912.

628
00:26:30,033 --> 00:26:32,900
About a year and a half
after Antonio was killed.

629
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:35,333
Would you please read
the transcribed section?

630
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,266
(laughter)

631
00:26:38,266 --> 00:26:40,800
HAGAR: When is this
going to stop, Doc?

632
00:26:41,466 --> 00:26:44,733
“Bullet wounds received on
the night of June 7th brought

633
00:26:44,733 --> 00:26:47,533
about the death of
Paul Ollis, 33 years old.

634
00:26:47,533 --> 00:26:49,800
The dead man was a
brother of Antonio Ollis who

635
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,300
was found 18 months ago
with his head all but cut off.”

636
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,466
HAGAR: Oh, my goodness.

637
00:26:55,466 --> 00:26:58,133
GATES: Your great grand
uncle Joseph lost not just one,

638
00:26:58,133 --> 00:27:00,900
but two of his sons
in brutal homicides.

639
00:27:00,900 --> 00:27:02,533
HAGAR: Wow!

640
00:27:02,533 --> 00:27:04,233
GATES: What's it like
to find this out?

641
00:27:04,233 --> 00:27:06,433
HAGAR: I thought more on my
dad's side to be more people

642
00:27:06,433 --> 00:27:09,366
beating people up and stuff,
'cause, you know, but not...

643
00:27:09,366 --> 00:27:10,566
GATES: To put it
in perspective,

644
00:27:10,566 --> 00:27:11,900
you knew Katherine,
your grandmother.

645
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:13,600
They were her first cousins.

646
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,100
HAGAR: Yeah!
GATES: Think about that.

647
00:27:16,366 --> 00:27:19,066
HAGAR: Yeah.
Man, I know my first cousins.

648
00:27:19,066 --> 00:27:21,500
If this was going on
with my first cousins,

649
00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:22,933
I don't know what I would think.

650
00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:25,000
GATES: Do you think
she knew about this?

651
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,766
It's hard to imagine
that she didn't, right?

652
00:27:26,766 --> 00:27:28,100
HAGAR: I think they did.

653
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:30,500
You know, my grandparents,
now that I think about it,

654
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:32,433
when, when we were
little when I was little,

655
00:27:32,433 --> 00:27:34,833
my grandparents would come
over and visit with my mom.

656
00:27:34,833 --> 00:27:37,300
There was a lot of whispering
going on at, at, at night.

657
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:38,500
GATES: Mm-hmm.

658
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:39,700
HAGAR: But I thought
it was always my grandpa

659
00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:40,833
had stole something, you know?

660
00:27:40,833 --> 00:27:41,966
Because he got,

661
00:27:41,966 --> 00:27:43,233
he even got caught
stealing out of stores before.

662
00:27:43,233 --> 00:27:44,733
He'd steal, uh, fishing gear.

663
00:27:44,733 --> 00:27:46,533
He'd go in and,

664
00:27:46,533 --> 00:27:48,533
with a vest on,
and he'd take a,

665
00:27:48,533 --> 00:27:52,166
put some lures on his vest,
and walk out.

666
00:27:52,533 --> 00:27:54,733
He got caught in a
Thrifty Drugstore when he

667
00:27:54,733 --> 00:27:57,433
was like 65 years old.

668
00:27:57,433 --> 00:27:59,066
He was a character, but man...

669
00:27:59,066 --> 00:28:00,200
GATES: He was a character.

670
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,566
HAGAR: But I didn't, I mean,

671
00:28:01,566 --> 00:28:03,800
this is bringing up a
whole new thoughts about

672
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,500
how they acted about things.

673
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:06,566
GATES: Sure.

674
00:28:06,566 --> 00:28:07,900
HAGAR: Always moving,
always moving.

675
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:09,033
In the middle of the night.

676
00:28:09,033 --> 00:28:10,733
GATES: Well,
think about this move.

677
00:28:10,733 --> 00:28:13,366
We don't know if Katherine knew,
but Katherine's parents,

678
00:28:13,366 --> 00:28:16,500
your great grandparents,
Giacomo and Gertrude, split.

679
00:28:16,966 --> 00:28:20,733
Do you think their decision
to move 3,000 miles away?

680
00:28:20,733 --> 00:28:24,966
HAGAR: Yeah, “How far can we
get without crossing a border?”

681
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:30,666
GATES: The Alessis had escaped
the violence that plagued their

682
00:28:30,666 --> 00:28:32,966
relatives back in New York,

683
00:28:32,966 --> 00:28:36,266
but another kind of danger
awaited them in California...

684
00:28:36,966 --> 00:28:40,733
In 1907, Sammy's
great-grandmother Gertrude

685
00:28:40,733 --> 00:28:43,166
passed away in Los Angeles.

686
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,966
Her death certificate cites a
tragic complicating cause...

687
00:28:49,366 --> 00:28:50,533
HAGAR: “Drunkenness.”

688
00:28:50,533 --> 00:28:51,933
GATES: Drunkenness. Yeah.

689
00:28:51,933 --> 00:28:54,500
HAGAR: Oh, wow.
That's Katherine's mom.

690
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:56,600
GATES: Mm-hmm.
Man, she was only 33.

691
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,233
HAGAR: 33 years old.
Drank herself to death.

692
00:28:58,233 --> 00:28:59,300
GATES: She drank
herself to death.

693
00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:01,566
HAGAR: That's, I mean, wow.

694
00:29:01,566 --> 00:29:03,400
GATES: Mmm.

695
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,866
HAGAR: How old was my,
my grandma then?

696
00:29:05,866 --> 00:29:09,066
GATES: Four, at the time.
HAGAR: Boy, that's hard to take.

697
00:29:12,333 --> 00:29:15,300
GATES: Sammy told me that he'd
heard stories growing up about

698
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:19,133
his grandmother spending time
in a convent when she was young.

699
00:29:20,266 --> 00:29:23,000
he was about to discover
that those stories were

700
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,700
partly based on fact...

701
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:29,833
The 1910 census indicates
that Katherine was placed in a

702
00:29:29,833 --> 00:29:32,900
Catholic orphanage following
her mother's death...

703
00:29:34,833 --> 00:29:39,833
HAGAR: “Name of Institution:
Regina Coeli Orphan Asylum on

704
00:29:39,833 --> 00:29:42,200
North Hill Street, Los Angeles.

705
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,000
Alessi, Catarina,

706
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,733
inmate, age: 7.”

707
00:29:45,733 --> 00:29:47,700
GATES: Catarina is Katherine.
HAGAR: Yeah.

708
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:48,833
GATES: There's your convent.

709
00:29:48,833 --> 00:29:50,200
HAGAR: That really happened.
GATES: Yeah.

710
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,133
HAGAR: Oh, God, it's horrible.
GATES: Yeah.

711
00:29:52,133 --> 00:29:53,400
(Sammy groans)

712
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,033
GATES: Did she ever talk
about this time in her life?

713
00:29:55,033 --> 00:29:57,300
HAGAR: No.
No, only my mom did.

714
00:29:57,300 --> 00:29:59,600
GATES: Oh.
That had to be tough.

715
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:00,633
HAGAR: Sure.

716
00:30:00,633 --> 00:30:03,366
GATES: Yeah.
HAGAR: Yeah.

717
00:30:03,733 --> 00:30:05,066
GATES: I want to show
you what it was like.

718
00:30:05,066 --> 00:30:07,333
Could you please turn the page?

719
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:11,000
Sammy, you're
looking at photos of the

720
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,133
Regina Coeli Orphan Asylum,

721
00:30:13,133 --> 00:30:15,666
an all-girls orphanage,
where we just saw your

722
00:30:15,666 --> 00:30:18,500
grandmother Katherine in 1910.

723
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:21,233
The asylum was
known specifically to

724
00:30:21,233 --> 00:30:23,233
help Italian immigrants.

725
00:30:23,233 --> 00:30:25,600
The girls were kept at
the orphanage either until

726
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,300
they could be placed
with a qualified family or

727
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:30,866
until they were able to
look after themselves and

728
00:30:30,866 --> 00:30:32,366
make a living on their own.

729
00:30:32,366 --> 00:30:35,000
To this end, they were
educated through eighth grade.

730
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,566
What's it like to think of
your grandma going through that?

731
00:30:37,566 --> 00:30:38,733
HAGAR: Horrible.

732
00:30:38,733 --> 00:30:40,266
But, I mean, it seems
like she didn't have much to

733
00:30:40,266 --> 00:30:41,300
compare it to.

734
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:42,600
I mean, that's the only,

735
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,033
almost like when
I think of myself,

736
00:30:44,033 --> 00:30:46,333
when I went through my
hard times as a child,

737
00:30:46,333 --> 00:30:47,500
I didn't have anything
to compare it to,

738
00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:48,500
so it wasn't so bad.

739
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:49,633
GATES: Yeah.

740
00:30:49,633 --> 00:30:51,566
HAGAR: But I,
I'm so sad that I,

741
00:30:51,566 --> 00:30:52,866
I lived without this knowledge.

742
00:30:52,866 --> 00:30:55,400
It seems like if I would've
known this growing up and they

743
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,966
would've shared
all this with me...

744
00:30:56,966 --> 00:30:58,366
GATES: Mmm-hmm.

745
00:30:58,366 --> 00:31:00,266
HAGAR: I would've been
going around telling stories

746
00:31:00,266 --> 00:31:01,400
and, you know,

747
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,900
and asking my grandma
so many questions.

748
00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:05,733
I mean, this.

749
00:31:05,733 --> 00:31:07,433
Ooof.

750
00:31:08,366 --> 00:31:10,066
GATES: We don't know
how long Katherine spent

751
00:31:10,066 --> 00:31:11,700
at the orphanage.

752
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:14,300
Its records have been lost,

753
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:16,366
we only know that
she was separated from

754
00:31:16,366 --> 00:31:19,233
her younger brothers
and her father,

755
00:31:19,233 --> 00:31:22,233
during a crucial
period of childhood,

756
00:31:22,433 --> 00:31:25,766
leaving Sammy to
wonder how all this suffering

757
00:31:25,766 --> 00:31:28,666
had affected his mother...

758
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:31,466
HAGAR: My mom had a
harder life than I thought.

759
00:31:31,466 --> 00:31:33,933
I mean, you know, growing
up with, with my grandma,

760
00:31:33,933 --> 00:31:36,866
my grandma must
have been, kinda loony.

761
00:31:37,133 --> 00:31:38,533
I mean, she always was.

762
00:31:38,533 --> 00:31:40,033
She was, you know,

763
00:31:40,033 --> 00:31:42,533
she was definitely an odd,
an oddball, you know?

764
00:31:42,533 --> 00:31:44,000
GATES: Suffered so much trauma.

765
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,400
HAGAR: Yeah. But my mom,
my poor mom, you know.

766
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,800
I don't think my mom
got loved properly.

767
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,633
GATES: Yeah. That's sad.

768
00:31:51,633 --> 00:31:54,066
HAGAR: I don't think that my
grandma knew how to do that.

769
00:31:54,066 --> 00:31:56,500
GATES: Yeah.
HAGAR: She was too wounded.

770
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:59,366
GATES: That's a
good way to put it.

771
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,766
HAGAR: That's
pretty much it, yep.

772
00:32:02,766 --> 00:32:04,800
Thank you for this, Doctor.

773
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,900
This is tough.
I'm a softie.

774
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:10,200
You're tearing my,
you're tearing me up.

775
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,700
Get them cameras out of here,

776
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:12,866
and I'm going to
roll around on the ground

777
00:32:12,866 --> 00:32:14,033
for a couple minutes.

778
00:32:14,033 --> 00:32:16,233
GATES: Aww.
HAGAR: Whew.

779
00:32:17,166 --> 00:32:20,666
GATES: We'd already explored
Ed O'Neill's paternal roots,

780
00:32:20,666 --> 00:32:24,433
showing how his grandfather was
shaped by the brutal world of

781
00:32:24,433 --> 00:32:26,766
the steel industry.

782
00:32:26,766 --> 00:32:30,000
Now, turning to Ed's
mother's family tree,

783
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,500
we found ancestors who were
forced to confront a world that

784
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:36,033
was even more brutal...

785
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:39,666
The story begins with Ed's
third great-grandparents:

786
00:32:39,666 --> 00:32:42,400
Bridget and James Tyrrell,

787
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,633
Bridget and James
were born in Ireland in the

788
00:32:44,633 --> 00:32:48,000
early 1800s and
left their native land

789
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,200
sometime after 1849
with seven children in tow,

790
00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:56,933
fleeing starvation
and the horrors of what became

791
00:32:56,933 --> 00:33:00,266
known as the
Great Potato Famine...

792
00:33:01,166 --> 00:33:05,433
By 1860, the family had
settled in Ed's hometown,

793
00:33:05,433 --> 00:33:07,600
Youngstown, Ohio,

794
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,100
where a new set of
challenges awaited them...

795
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:13,200
GATES: What are
their occupations?

796
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,766
O'NEILL: Coal miner.
GATES: Coal miner.

797
00:33:14,766 --> 00:33:18,066
And 17-year-old coal miner.

798
00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:19,700
O'NEILL: Yes.
GATES: Yeah.

799
00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:21,233
James is a coal miner,

800
00:33:21,233 --> 00:33:24,133
Bridget's taking care of
the children, and son, Thomas,

801
00:33:24,133 --> 00:33:26,066
who's only 17 years old,

802
00:33:26,066 --> 00:33:28,600
has already started
working in the mines.

803
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,433
O'NEILL: In the mines.
GATES: Alongside his father.

804
00:33:30,433 --> 00:33:31,433
Did you know that?

805
00:33:31,433 --> 00:33:32,466
O'NEILL: No.

806
00:33:32,466 --> 00:33:33,600
GATES: That you had
coal in your blood?

807
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:34,666
O'NEILL: No.

808
00:33:34,666 --> 00:33:36,933
GATES: What do you
imagine that was like, Ed?

809
00:33:36,933 --> 00:33:38,700
O'NEILL: I've never
been in those mines.

810
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:40,100
GATES: I would never want to go.

811
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:41,433
O'NEILL: I didn't know
what they look like.

812
00:33:41,433 --> 00:33:44,566
I don't want to go down
underneath the ground.

813
00:33:45,033 --> 00:33:47,733
GATES: When Ed's ancestors
arrived in America,

814
00:33:47,733 --> 00:33:50,366
Ohio's coal industry
was booming.

815
00:33:51,733 --> 00:33:54,933
But the workers who actually
had to go into the mines faced

816
00:33:54,933 --> 00:33:57,100
a terrifying task,

817
00:33:57,566 --> 00:34:01,366
laboring more than
1,000 feet beneath the earth,

818
00:34:01,366 --> 00:34:03,966
breathing in
clouds of coal dust,

819
00:34:03,966 --> 00:34:06,866
constantly fearing
that the walls around

820
00:34:06,866 --> 00:34:09,066
them would collapse...

821
00:34:10,566 --> 00:34:12,800
O'NEILL: Look
how young they are.

822
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,833
Those faces, most
of them are young.

823
00:34:14,833 --> 00:34:17,466
GATES: Yep.
O'NEILL: Yep.

824
00:34:18,533 --> 00:34:19,966
They didn't do it
for their health.

825
00:34:19,966 --> 00:34:21,366
GATES: Unh-uh.

826
00:34:21,366 --> 00:34:25,300
James and 17-year-old
Thomas likely took an elevator

827
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:28,133
down the mining shaft
and mined the coal by hand

828
00:34:28,133 --> 00:34:29,633
using picks and shovels.

829
00:34:29,633 --> 00:34:30,733
O'NEILL: Yeah.

830
00:34:30,733 --> 00:34:32,433
GATES: And Thomas is
just one year older than

831
00:34:32,433 --> 00:34:34,566
your daughter, Claire.

832
00:34:34,566 --> 00:34:36,133
Think about that for a minute.

833
00:34:36,133 --> 00:34:38,633
Can you imagine sending
Claire off to the mines to

834
00:34:38,633 --> 00:34:39,966
support the family?

835
00:34:39,966 --> 00:34:42,866
O'NEILL: No. No, no. No.

836
00:34:42,866 --> 00:34:46,566
GATES: How do you think they
felt about their new country?

837
00:34:46,566 --> 00:34:49,666
O'NEILL: Well, they
were probably eating.

838
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,466
GATES: Mm-hmm.
O'NEILL: You know.

839
00:34:51,466 --> 00:34:55,366
So they probably
liked that part of it.

840
00:34:55,366 --> 00:35:00,100
Yeah, I mean, I guess
you do what you have to do.

841
00:35:01,933 --> 00:35:04,800
GATES: Whatever comforts
the Tyrrells found in America

842
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,666
did not last for long...

843
00:35:07,666 --> 00:35:12,466
In 1861, a year after we
saw them in the Ohio census,

844
00:35:12,466 --> 00:35:17,266
their new nation was
engulfed by civil war.

845
00:35:17,866 --> 00:35:20,433
James and Bridget
were in their 50s,

846
00:35:20,433 --> 00:35:24,000
but they had three sons,
all teenagers,

847
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,533
and in August of 1862,

848
00:35:26,533 --> 00:35:29,000
their oldest boy,
Thomas Tyrrell,

849
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,333
appeared on a muster roll for
an Ohio infantry regiment...

850
00:35:35,433 --> 00:35:36,766
O'NEILL: Unbelievable.

851
00:35:36,766 --> 00:35:38,366
GATES: Thomas volunteered.

852
00:35:38,366 --> 00:35:40,666
He volunteered to serve
in the Union Army.

853
00:35:40,666 --> 00:35:43,666
He was just nineteen
years old, a teenager.

854
00:35:43,666 --> 00:35:45,400
And what do you think your
third great-grandmother,

855
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:46,800
Bridget, thought?

856
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,266
She was watching her child
head off to fight in a war in a

857
00:35:49,266 --> 00:35:51,633
country she had just moved to.

858
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:54,700
O'NEILL: That would be rough.

859
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:55,900
I mean, 19.

860
00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:57,866
He was just a boy a
few years before that.

861
00:35:57,866 --> 00:35:59,833
GATES: Yeah.
O'NEILL: 19 is a boy.

862
00:35:59,833 --> 00:36:02,833
GATES: 19 is a boy.
O'NEILL: Yeah.

863
00:36:04,333 --> 00:36:07,133
GATES: Thomas was given
little time to grow up,

864
00:36:07,133 --> 00:36:09,633
just two months
after volunteering,

865
00:36:09,633 --> 00:36:12,333
his regiment was
thrust into a battle at

866
00:36:12,333 --> 00:36:14,466
Chaplin Hills, Kentucky,

867
00:36:14,466 --> 00:36:17,966
where more than
70,000 soldiers fought over a

868
00:36:17,966 --> 00:36:22,200
small network of roads outside
the town of Perryville...

869
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,300
O'NEILL: Look at that.

870
00:36:26,300 --> 00:36:29,266
GATES: More than 7,500
casualties were suffered,

871
00:36:29,266 --> 00:36:33,066
making it one of the bloodiest
battles of the entire war...

872
00:36:33,066 --> 00:36:34,266
O'NEILL: Wow.

873
00:36:34,266 --> 00:36:36,066
GATES: Relative to the size
of the armies involved,

874
00:36:36,066 --> 00:36:37,366
sort of per capita.

875
00:36:37,366 --> 00:36:38,833
O'NEILL: Yeah.

876
00:36:38,833 --> 00:36:41,033
GATES: So how did Thomas fare,
do you think?

877
00:36:41,033 --> 00:36:42,833
I want you to guess.

878
00:36:42,833 --> 00:36:46,866
O'NEILL: Well, I
would say it's a crap shoot.

879
00:36:48,366 --> 00:36:50,533
He was probably not
trained that much, right?

880
00:36:50,533 --> 00:36:52,066
GATES: No.
O'NEILL: I mean, just thrown in.

881
00:36:52,066 --> 00:36:53,600
GATES: Remember
he went in August.

882
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,100
This is October.

883
00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:56,900
O'NEILL: Well then, you're
either lucky or you're unlucky.

884
00:36:56,900 --> 00:36:57,900
GATES: Yeah.

885
00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:00,666
Well, let's see which
it was for Thomas.

886
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,766
This is another military record,
dated February 21, 1863.

887
00:37:06,066 --> 00:37:08,200
Would you please read
the transcribed section?

888
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,800
O'NEILL: “I certify that I have
carefully examined the said

889
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,966
Thomas Tyrrell and find him
incapable of performing the

890
00:37:14,966 --> 00:37:17,700
duties of a soldier
because of gunshot wounds

891
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:19,133
in right shoulder,

892
00:37:19,133 --> 00:37:22,333
leaving him with stiff
joint and almost useless arm.

893
00:37:22,333 --> 00:37:25,700
Degree of disability,
two-thirds.”

894
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:28,000
Oh my God.

895
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:33,500
GATES: Thomas was
discharged in February of 1863

896
00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:36,000
with a permanent disability.

897
00:37:36,766 --> 00:37:40,466
And this wasn't the end
of his family's ordeal...

898
00:37:40,466 --> 00:37:41,833
A year later,

899
00:37:41,833 --> 00:37:44,300
his brother James followed
him into the army and

900
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:49,000
soon found himself hospitalized
with a heart condition...

901
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,366
Ed wondered how the boys'
parents must have felt,

902
00:37:52,366 --> 00:37:53,766
waiting at home,

903
00:37:53,766 --> 00:37:56,866
wondering if their sons
were hurt or captured,

904
00:37:56,866 --> 00:37:59,233
dead or alive...

905
00:37:59,233 --> 00:38:03,366
But as it turns out,
their mother wasn't at home...

906
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,833
Records show that
by the fall of 1864,

907
00:38:06,833 --> 00:38:11,333
Bridget Tyrrell was serving
in the Union Army as a nurse,

908
00:38:12,233 --> 00:38:16,066
one of roughly 20,000 women
who volunteered to aid

909
00:38:16,066 --> 00:38:18,966
the northern cause...

910
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,966
And in many cases, these
women just showed up and

911
00:38:21,966 --> 00:38:24,066
did whatever they could to help.

912
00:38:24,066 --> 00:38:27,166
They get tired of sitting
around having all that anxiety.

913
00:38:27,166 --> 00:38:30,100
O'NEILL: I mean I would love
to have been a fly on the wall

914
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:32,933
when she decided to go and say,

915
00:38:32,933 --> 00:38:34,933
"Where are you going?"

916
00:38:34,933 --> 00:38:36,600
GATES: Right.
"You were doing what?

917
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:37,933
You're not doing that."

918
00:38:37,933 --> 00:38:39,233
O'NEILL: "How are
you getting there?

919
00:38:39,233 --> 00:38:41,900
You're going
through war places."

920
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:44,033
GATES: That's right.
O'NEILL: Unbelievable.

921
00:38:46,333 --> 00:38:48,966
GATES: Bridget tended to the
wounded in what was known as

922
00:38:48,966 --> 00:38:52,400
“Brown Hospital” in
Louisville, Kentucky,

923
00:38:53,466 --> 00:38:55,800
there's no evidence
that she had any

924
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,966
medical training at all,
but that likely didn't matter,

925
00:39:00,266 --> 00:39:03,966
as reports suggest the
hospital was desperate for

926
00:39:03,966 --> 00:39:06,566
whatever help it could get...

927
00:39:06,933 --> 00:39:09,733
O'NEILL: "The sick are sent
to the general hospitals in

928
00:39:09,733 --> 00:39:11,366
and about Louisville.

929
00:39:11,366 --> 00:39:13,933
Brown Hospital has
received most of the patients

930
00:39:13,933 --> 00:39:15,666
from the army.

931
00:39:15,666 --> 00:39:19,266
This hospital is entirely too
much crowded for its capacity

932
00:39:19,266 --> 00:39:21,866
and number of
surgeons and nurses.

933
00:39:21,866 --> 00:39:24,266
The patients have not
been able to receive the

934
00:39:24,266 --> 00:39:25,966
attention they should."

935
00:39:25,966 --> 00:39:27,200
GATES: That's where she worked.

936
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,466
O'NEILL: Oh my God.

937
00:39:28,466 --> 00:39:29,666
GATES: At the hospital
where Bridget worked...

938
00:39:29,666 --> 00:39:31,066
O'NEILL: What is that?
GATES: That's it.

939
00:39:31,066 --> 00:39:32,566
O'NEILL: Oh my God.
It's like a shack.

940
00:39:32,566 --> 00:39:33,933
GATES: That is Brown...

941
00:39:33,933 --> 00:39:35,300
O'NEILL: It's an
elongated shack.

942
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:37,000
GATES: That is
Brown Hospital, man.

943
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,433
O'NEILL: Oh my God.
It doesn't look like...

944
00:39:38,433 --> 00:39:39,700
GATES: Can you imagine how it...

945
00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:41,100
O'NEILL: Any hospital
I ever saw.

946
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:42,900
GATES: Imagine how it smelled.
Just start with that.

947
00:39:42,900 --> 00:39:44,533
O'NEILL: God.

948
00:39:44,533 --> 00:39:46,600
She probably watched
a lot of men die.

949
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,366
GATES: Oh, yeah.
O'NEILL: Every day.

950
00:39:48,366 --> 00:39:50,433
GATES: Yeah. Big time.
O'NEILL: Geez.

951
00:39:50,433 --> 00:39:52,866
That's, that's something.
Different world.

952
00:39:52,866 --> 00:39:54,833
GATES: Yeah. What a character.

953
00:39:54,833 --> 00:39:56,366
O'NEILL: I would've
loved to have known her.

954
00:39:56,366 --> 00:39:58,100
GATES: Yeah.
She had grit, man.

955
00:39:58,100 --> 00:39:59,433
O'NEILL: Oh, yeah.

956
00:39:59,433 --> 00:40:00,700
GATES: I want to show
you something else.

957
00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:02,566
Please turn the page.

958
00:40:02,566 --> 00:40:06,166
O'NEILL: This is amazing.
This is amazing.

959
00:40:07,233 --> 00:40:10,033
GATES: Fast forward
to the year 1897.

960
00:40:10,033 --> 00:40:11,633
This is Bridget's obituary.

961
00:40:11,633 --> 00:40:12,833
O'NEILL: Okay.

962
00:40:12,833 --> 00:40:14,200
GATES: Would you please
read the part we've transcribed

963
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:15,600
in the white box?

964
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,233
O'NEILL: "During the late war,
Mrs. Terrell had two sons and

965
00:40:19,233 --> 00:40:23,966
15 nephews in the
Northern Army and made

966
00:40:23,966 --> 00:40:27,500
several trips to the
southern battlefields to

967
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:29,500
administer to their wants.

968
00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:32,733
Many a dying soldier
blessed her for her kindness and

969
00:40:32,733 --> 00:40:36,400
care with their last breath."

970
00:40:36,833 --> 00:40:38,766
So, that was sort of
what I thought...

971
00:40:38,766 --> 00:40:39,833
GATES: Absolutely.

972
00:40:39,833 --> 00:40:41,066
O'NEILL: Was a
big part of her job.

973
00:40:41,066 --> 00:40:42,466
GATES: Yeah.
O'NEILL: It would be.

974
00:40:42,466 --> 00:40:44,533
GATES: It was holding
people's hands who were staring

975
00:40:44,533 --> 00:40:46,533
into the terror of death.

976
00:40:46,533 --> 00:40:49,300
O'NEILL: Oh my God.
That's incredible.

977
00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:52,933
GATES: That's incredible.
O'NEILL: That's moving.

978
00:40:52,933 --> 00:40:54,666
GATES: I don't know what
she was like to live with,

979
00:40:54,666 --> 00:40:55,933
but she was great.

980
00:40:55,933 --> 00:40:58,400
She performed nobly.

981
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,300
And according to her obituary,

982
00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:03,133
Bridget made several
trips to care for her family

983
00:41:03,133 --> 00:41:04,166
during the war.

984
00:41:04,166 --> 00:41:05,266
O'NEILL: Yes, yes.

985
00:41:05,266 --> 00:41:06,666
GATES: What's it like
to see that, man?

986
00:41:06,666 --> 00:41:07,966
O'NEILL: When would you
say to your husband,

987
00:41:07,966 --> 00:41:10,433
"I'm going back down
for another tour."

988
00:41:10,433 --> 00:41:12,400
GATES: Yeah, a tour. Yeah.

989
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,933
O'NEILL: "And I'm going again."

990
00:41:13,933 --> 00:41:15,233
GATES: Yeah.
"Whether you like it or not."

991
00:41:15,233 --> 00:41:17,233
O'NEILL: Several means
at least three, right?

992
00:41:17,233 --> 00:41:18,700
GATES: Yeah. There you go.

993
00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:22,033
O'NEILL: Oh,
that's just incredible.

994
00:41:22,233 --> 00:41:25,900
GATES: We had a final
detail to share with Ed,

995
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:28,666
a church archive
in Ireland contains

996
00:41:28,666 --> 00:41:31,200
Bridget's marriage record,

997
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,166
it lists her
maiden name, Lally,

998
00:41:34,166 --> 00:41:38,666
and indicates that she was
likely born in county Offaly,

999
00:41:39,133 --> 00:41:40,933
in the Irish midlands,

1000
00:41:40,933 --> 00:41:44,566
a region that was
hard-hit during the famine,

1001
00:41:44,566 --> 00:41:47,900
offering further
insight into the character of

1002
00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:50,733
Ed's remarkable ancestor...

1003
00:41:52,966 --> 00:41:55,433
She protected her family
during two of the greatest

1004
00:41:55,433 --> 00:41:56,866
tragedies in history.

1005
00:41:56,866 --> 00:41:57,866
O'NEILL: Unbelievable.

1006
00:41:57,866 --> 00:41:59,600
GATES: The famine and the war.

1007
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,300
What do you make of her?

1008
00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:04,166
O'NEILL: Well,
it's like "Gunga Din".

1009
00:42:04,166 --> 00:42:06,300
"Better man than I am."

1010
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:07,700
GATES: Absolutely.

1011
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:10,800
And think about how quickly
they came to this country and

1012
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,466
grasped the ideals and offered
themselves for sacrifice.

1013
00:42:14,466 --> 00:42:16,166
O'NEILL: Yes.

1014
00:42:16,166 --> 00:42:18,133
GATES: Yes.
They were immigrants.

1015
00:42:18,133 --> 00:42:20,133
They could say, "I don't
have a nickel in this fight.

1016
00:42:20,133 --> 00:42:21,566
I'm from Ireland.”

1017
00:42:21,566 --> 00:42:23,000
O'NEILL: Right.
GATES: But they didn't.

1018
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,666
O'NEILL: I guess they must
have had a great desire to

1019
00:42:24,666 --> 00:42:26,500
belong to America.

1020
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,800
GATES: Yeah, hook, line,
and sinker they went into it.

1021
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,666
O'NEILL: Yeah, it was
the promised land.

1022
00:42:32,666 --> 00:42:34,200
GATES: Right.

1023
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,266
O'NEILL: Boy, I'm glad
I came here today.

1024
00:42:38,066 --> 00:42:39,800
GATES: We'd already
traced Sammy Hagar's

1025
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,966
mother's ancestry back to Italy,

1026
00:42:42,966 --> 00:42:46,500
revealing a family that
struggled to stay together

1027
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:49,000
Across multiple generations.

1028
00:42:50,233 --> 00:42:53,033
Now, turning to
Sammy's father's roots,

1029
00:42:53,033 --> 00:42:56,533
we encountered ancestors
facing a very different

1030
00:42:56,533 --> 00:42:58,400
kind of turmoil...

1031
00:42:59,433 --> 00:43:03,366
Sammy's great-grandfather,
William R. Hagar,

1032
00:43:03,366 --> 00:43:07,166
was born in Virginia
sometime around 1845,

1033
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,733
his mother was a woman
named Elizabeth Bailey.

1034
00:43:10,733 --> 00:43:14,633
And his father, we assumed,
was a man named Alem Hagar.

1035
00:43:16,066 --> 00:43:18,133
That assumption was
based on the paper trail...

1036
00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:23,833
Alem and Elizabeth married
in 1823 and records suggest

1037
00:43:23,833 --> 00:43:26,933
they had at least
four children together,

1038
00:43:27,533 --> 00:43:31,266
but when we searched for the
family in the 1850 census,

1039
00:43:31,266 --> 00:43:33,300
we noticed something unusual...

1040
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,266
HAGAR: “Elizabeth Hagar,
age 40,

1041
00:43:37,266 --> 00:43:40,700
Granville Hagar, age 14.

1042
00:43:41,433 --> 00:43:46,900
William R. Hagar, age five,
Polly Means Hagar, age 20.”

1043
00:43:47,233 --> 00:43:48,633
GATES: There's your
great-grandfather,

1044
00:43:48,633 --> 00:43:52,633
William R. Hagar as a
child living with his mother and

1045
00:43:52,633 --> 00:43:56,733
two of his likely siblings
in Mercer County, Virginia.

1046
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,666
HAGAR: Okay.
GATES: But his father's missing.

1047
00:43:59,666 --> 00:44:00,833
HAGAR: No Alem.

1048
00:44:00,833 --> 00:44:02,666
GATES: So we wanted to
see what happened to him.

1049
00:44:02,666 --> 00:44:04,333
Could you please turn the page?

1050
00:44:04,333 --> 00:44:05,833
HAGAR: Man, these people
are disappearing like,

1051
00:44:05,833 --> 00:44:07,700
like the Italians!

1052
00:44:09,266 --> 00:44:11,966
GATES: This is another part
of the 1850 Federal Census.

1053
00:44:11,966 --> 00:44:14,933
Only this one is from
Tazewell County, Virginia.

1054
00:44:14,933 --> 00:44:17,466
Would you please read
the transcribed section?

1055
00:44:17,466 --> 00:44:20,400
HAGAR: “Alem Hagar, age 50,
place of birth, Virginia.

1056
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,500
Sally Hagar, age 89,
place of birth, Virginia.”

1057
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:27,300
GATES: That's
Elizabeth's husband, Alem,

1058
00:44:27,300 --> 00:44:29,833
alive and well but living
in a different county...

1059
00:44:29,833 --> 00:44:31,066
HAGAR: With his mother?

1060
00:44:31,066 --> 00:44:33,466
GATES: With his mother,
with this 89-year-old mother.

1061
00:44:33,466 --> 00:44:34,600
HAGAR: Wow.

1062
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,966
GATES: What do you make of that?

1063
00:44:35,966 --> 00:44:38,366
HAGAR: I don't know
what to make of that.

1064
00:44:38,966 --> 00:44:41,700
GATES: Our researchers
were equally baffled.

1065
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:46,466
The divorce rate in Virginia
at this time was less than 1%,

1066
00:44:47,066 --> 00:44:50,000
we assumed the census taker
had made an error,

1067
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,933
but when we jumped forward
ten years, to the 1860 census,

1068
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:58,200
we discovered that Alem and
Elizabeth were still living

1069
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,766
in separate counties...

1070
00:45:01,266 --> 00:45:03,966
And as far as we could tell,
they never reunited.

1071
00:45:03,966 --> 00:45:05,833
They separated and
never reunited.

1072
00:45:05,833 --> 00:45:06,933
HAGAR: Wow.

1073
00:45:06,933 --> 00:45:08,400
And she raised kids by
herself way back then?

1074
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:09,800
GATES: She raised
kids by herself. Yup.

1075
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,000
HAGAR: Wow.

1076
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,200
GATES: So this is where
the story gets wild.

1077
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,533
All right? You ready?
I want you to...

1078
00:45:13,533 --> 00:45:15,633
HAGAR: I'm buckled up, brother.

1079
00:45:15,633 --> 00:45:18,166
GATES: I want you to
fasten your seatbelt, all right?

1080
00:45:18,166 --> 00:45:20,633
Because I'm going to walk you
through some complicated stuff.

1081
00:45:20,633 --> 00:45:21,700
Don't turn that page yet.

1082
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:23,466
HAGAR: Okay.
GATES: All right?

1083
00:45:23,466 --> 00:45:27,666
Now, the available records
for Elizabeth and Alem do not

1084
00:45:27,666 --> 00:45:30,966
shed any more light on
their relationship.

1085
00:45:30,966 --> 00:45:32,866
But when we looked at your DNA,

1086
00:45:32,866 --> 00:45:35,200
remember we gave
you a couple DNA tests,

1087
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,333
we noticed something
very interesting.

1088
00:45:38,333 --> 00:45:39,966
HAGAR: Okay.

1089
00:45:40,633 --> 00:45:42,700
GATES: Our interest was
focused on the results of

1090
00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:45,500
Sammy's Y-DNA test.

1091
00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:49,833
This type of test traces a
man's direct male lineage by

1092
00:45:49,833 --> 00:45:53,000
identifying the genetic
signature that is passed from

1093
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,033
father to son
across generations.

1094
00:45:57,333 --> 00:46:00,533
In theory, Sammy's Y-DNA
should have matched

1095
00:46:00,533 --> 00:46:02,666
Alem Hagar's DNA

1096
00:46:02,666 --> 00:46:06,666
and all the Hagar men who
came before him on his father's

1097
00:46:06,666 --> 00:46:09,000
father's line...

1098
00:46:09,266 --> 00:46:12,033
But that's not what
his results showed.

1099
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,600
Sammy, this chart shows
the total number of men found

1100
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,500
with the surname Hagar,

1101
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:20,633
who match your
Y-DNA signature.

1102
00:46:20,633 --> 00:46:22,166
Could you please
read that number?

1103
00:46:22,166 --> 00:46:23,666
HAGAR: Zero!

1104
00:46:23,666 --> 00:46:25,833
I don't need glasses
for that, brother.

1105
00:46:25,833 --> 00:46:27,633
(laughs)

1106
00:46:27,633 --> 00:46:28,866
How can that be?

1107
00:46:28,866 --> 00:46:30,033
GATES: Sammy?

1108
00:46:30,033 --> 00:46:32,566
Genetically, you
are not a Hagar.

1109
00:46:32,833 --> 00:46:33,866
HAGAR: Get out of here.

1110
00:46:33,866 --> 00:46:35,233
GATES: You want to
find out what your real

1111
00:46:35,233 --> 00:46:36,266
biological surname is?

1112
00:46:36,266 --> 00:46:37,533
HAGAR: Oh, God, yes.

1113
00:46:37,533 --> 00:46:39,566
Yes, this is, this is nutty
as anything I've ever imagined.

1114
00:46:39,566 --> 00:46:41,633
GATES: What I'm about
to introduce you to is

1115
00:46:41,633 --> 00:46:45,200
100% certain, okay?

1116
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:46,233
HAGAR: Okay.

1117
00:46:46,233 --> 00:46:48,166
GATES: Because
you are not a Hagar.

1118
00:46:48,166 --> 00:46:49,333
This is who you are.

1119
00:46:49,333 --> 00:46:50,833
Please turn the page.

1120
00:46:50,833 --> 00:46:52,066
HAGAR: Oh, man.

1121
00:46:52,066 --> 00:46:54,300
I'm going to get, I don't
know if I'm ready for this.

1122
00:46:54,300 --> 00:46:56,500
GATES: Sammy, this is
the same graphic we just saw

1123
00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:57,533
on the previous page.

1124
00:46:57,533 --> 00:46:59,000
HAGAR: I'm a Belcher?!

1125
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,433
GATES: You are a Belcher.

1126
00:47:00,433 --> 00:47:01,966
HAGAR: Oh, my God!

1127
00:47:01,966 --> 00:47:06,566
GATES: Your Y-DNA matches 27
men with the surname Belcher.

1128
00:47:06,566 --> 00:47:09,400
There is no doubt, this is
a slam-dunk identification.

1129
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,700
HAGAR: Wow.

1130
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:15,200
GATES: You are Sammy Belcher.
HAGAR: What a trip!

1131
00:47:17,366 --> 00:47:20,833
GATES: There was only
one possible explanation

1132
00:47:20,833 --> 00:47:22,866
for this anomaly.

1133
00:47:22,866 --> 00:47:26,533
Somewhere on Sammy's
direct paternal line,

1134
00:47:26,533 --> 00:47:30,233
one of his female
ancestors had borne a child

1135
00:47:30,233 --> 00:47:32,433
with someone
who was a Belcher,

1136
00:47:32,433 --> 00:47:34,533
and not a Hagar,

1137
00:47:34,533 --> 00:47:36,933
and the most likely
candidate was his

1138
00:47:36,933 --> 00:47:39,433
great-great-grandmother
Elizabeth...

1139
00:47:41,433 --> 00:47:43,300
HAGAR: Wooo-wee....

1140
00:47:43,300 --> 00:47:45,800
GATES: And perhaps that was
the very reason why Alem and

1141
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,033
Elizabeth weren't living
together in 1850 and 1860 when

1142
00:47:50,033 --> 00:47:52,000
he goes back and
lives with his mother.

1143
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,733
She, it's possible, had an
affair and he figured it out.

1144
00:47:57,733 --> 00:47:58,833
HAGAR: And left.

1145
00:47:58,833 --> 00:48:00,533
GATES: Split.
“I'm out of here.”

1146
00:48:00,533 --> 00:48:01,800
(Sammy whistles).

1147
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,100
HAGAR: Boy, that
changed everything.

1148
00:48:03,100 --> 00:48:04,133
GATES: That changed everything.

1149
00:48:04,133 --> 00:48:05,366
What do you think
about this, man?

1150
00:48:05,366 --> 00:48:06,833
HAGAR: This stuff
happens all the time.

1151
00:48:06,833 --> 00:48:08,700
I mean, this is
so normal in life.

1152
00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:11,400
GATES: And guess what?
It has happened.

1153
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,233
People fell in love
outside of marriage,

1154
00:48:14,233 --> 00:48:18,433
but only now are we
able to find the evidence

1155
00:48:18,433 --> 00:48:19,700
because of DNA.

1156
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:21,733
People took these
secrets to the grave.

1157
00:48:21,733 --> 00:48:22,866
HAGAR: Yeah.

1158
00:48:22,866 --> 00:48:25,533
That's so sad because it's,
thank God for DNA.

1159
00:48:25,533 --> 00:48:28,200
Because otherwise this
stuff would just,

1160
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,333
I mean, not that it,

1161
00:48:29,333 --> 00:48:30,833
I don't even know
what it matters or what

1162
00:48:30,833 --> 00:48:32,066
it really means at my age.

1163
00:48:32,066 --> 00:48:33,500
GATES: Sure, right.

1164
00:48:33,500 --> 00:48:34,933
HAGAR: But if I was a
young man if I was a seven,

1165
00:48:34,933 --> 00:48:39,466
eight-year-old, a teenager,
just, you might think, yeah,

1166
00:48:39,466 --> 00:48:40,933
I want to meet some of
these people and get down

1167
00:48:40,933 --> 00:48:41,966
at the bottom of it...

1168
00:48:41,966 --> 00:48:43,133
GATES: Sure.

1169
00:48:43,133 --> 00:48:44,366
HAGAR: And find out
who loves me and who don't and

1170
00:48:44,366 --> 00:48:46,000
who I care about and who I
need to help and who don't.

1171
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,000
GATES: Right.
HAGAR: I don't know.

1172
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,866
GATES: We were not able to
determine who fathered Sammy's

1173
00:48:50,866 --> 00:48:54,666
great-grandfather William,
there are at least eleven

1174
00:48:54,666 --> 00:48:58,500
Belcher men who are
possibilities and the DNA

1175
00:48:58,500 --> 00:49:01,800
evidence is not sufficient
to distinguish among them,

1176
00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:05,533
but one thing is certain:

1177
00:49:05,533 --> 00:49:08,233
All eleven share
the same father:

1178
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:11,600
A man named Isham Belcher,

1179
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,466
and DNA indicates that
Isham has a very clear

1180
00:49:15,466 --> 00:49:17,766
connection to Sammy...

1181
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,666
Isham Belcher is your
third great-grandfather.

1182
00:49:22,666 --> 00:49:25,300
He is your great-great-
great-grandfather.

1183
00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:26,700
You ready for this?

1184
00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:27,900
HAGAR: I sure am.

1185
00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:31,700
GATES: He was born in
Virginia around the year 1770.

1186
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:34,900
Six years before the signing of
the Declaration of Independence.

1187
00:49:34,900 --> 00:49:37,800
HAGAR: Whoa.

1188
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,666
GATES: So you have deep, deep
roots in Revolutionary America.

1189
00:49:42,066 --> 00:49:44,133
Deep roots in Virginia.

1190
00:49:44,133 --> 00:49:46,133
How does it make you
feel to know this?

1191
00:49:46,133 --> 00:49:47,266
HAGAR: Oh, it's crazy.

1192
00:49:47,266 --> 00:49:48,766
This is, this is lunacy, man.

1193
00:49:48,766 --> 00:49:50,433
This is so beyond my...

1194
00:49:50,433 --> 00:49:52,766
This is like trying to think
about black holes and stuff.

1195
00:49:52,766 --> 00:49:53,900
GATES: I know. It's true.

1196
00:49:53,900 --> 00:49:55,266
HAGAR: It's like
Carl Sagan stuff, right?

1197
00:49:55,266 --> 00:49:56,600
GATES: Like, “Hell, take me up”"

1198
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,266
HAGAR: Stephen Hawking stuff.
That's what this is.

1199
00:49:58,266 --> 00:50:00,133
GATES: It is!
Are you glad to know this?

1200
00:50:00,133 --> 00:50:02,833
HAGAR: I'm so happy to know
this and this gives me so much

1201
00:50:02,833 --> 00:50:05,700
mind-chewing ability.

1202
00:50:05,700 --> 00:50:08,866
I mean, man, my mind's going
to work on this like a mouse

1203
00:50:08,866 --> 00:50:11,766
on a wheel of cheese, man.

1204
00:50:12,666 --> 00:50:16,533
GATES: The paper trail had
run out for Sammy and Ed.

1205
00:50:16,533 --> 00:50:19,233
it was time to show them
their full family trees...

1206
00:50:20,166 --> 00:50:21,766
O'NEILL: That's just amazing.

1207
00:50:21,766 --> 00:50:23,833
Look at that.
This is just perfect.

1208
00:50:23,833 --> 00:50:25,900
GATES: Now filled with names
they'd never heard before...

1209
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:28,200
HAGAR: Oh, my gosh.

1210
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:29,833
Oh, my goodness gracious.

1211
00:50:29,833 --> 00:50:31,466
GATES: For each, it
was a moment of awe...

1212
00:50:31,466 --> 00:50:33,333
You got a World War I
veteran there...

1213
00:50:33,333 --> 00:50:35,033
O'NEILL: That's great.

1214
00:50:35,033 --> 00:50:37,866
GATES: Offering the chance
to see how their own lives

1215
00:50:37,866 --> 00:50:40,166
were part of a larger
family story...

1216
00:50:40,166 --> 00:50:41,933
HAGAR: Oh, my man.
This is beautiful.

1217
00:50:41,933 --> 00:50:44,900
That's big, deep, and touching.

1218
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:46,333
Wow.

1219
00:50:46,333 --> 00:50:50,766
GATES: In the end, each man
was left searching for words to

1220
00:50:50,766 --> 00:50:52,966
describe the experience...

1221
00:50:52,966 --> 00:50:55,766
O'NEILL: Wow.
HAGAR: Doc, I'm overwhelmed.

1222
00:50:55,966 --> 00:50:57,733
It's like, I, I don't
even know what it's like.

1223
00:50:57,733 --> 00:50:59,633
You have to interview me again,

1224
00:50:59,633 --> 00:51:01,466
like, in six months,
just for five minutes,

1225
00:51:01,466 --> 00:51:04,133
and ask me what I think
then because right now I

1226
00:51:04,133 --> 00:51:05,166
don't know what to think.

1227
00:51:05,166 --> 00:51:06,766
I mean, I, I love it.

1228
00:51:06,766 --> 00:51:10,266
I'm excited.
It's really exhilarating, man.

1229
00:51:10,266 --> 00:51:11,433
GATES: It is.

1230
00:51:11,433 --> 00:51:13,333
HAGAR: I won't be able to
sleep for a month, behind,

1231
00:51:13,333 --> 00:51:14,866
rolling this stuff
around in my head and

1232
00:51:14,866 --> 00:51:17,600
reading through this book and,
and showing it to my sister.

1233
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,033
I mean, I just can't wait
to show this to my sisters.

1234
00:51:20,033 --> 00:51:21,833
They're going to freak out.

1235
00:51:21,833 --> 00:51:24,066
GATES: What has our journey
together meant to you?

1236
00:51:24,066 --> 00:51:28,933
O'NEILL: Well, just it's
been a lifelong dream of,

1237
00:51:29,433 --> 00:51:33,966
desire that I've always had
to find out this information

1238
00:51:33,966 --> 00:51:35,366
that I received today.

1239
00:51:35,366 --> 00:51:36,500
GATES: That's great.

1240
00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:37,700
O'NEILL: I always
wanted to know,

1241
00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:39,100
ever since I was a little kid.

1242
00:51:39,100 --> 00:51:41,433
I always wanted to know this.

1243
00:51:41,433 --> 00:51:42,700
So I never did.

1244
00:51:42,700 --> 00:51:44,600
No one would ever,
I'd ask everybody.

1245
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,500
GATES: But they didn't know.
O'NEILL: They did not know.

1246
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:47,866
GATES: They did not know.
But now...

1247
00:51:47,866 --> 00:51:50,800
O'NEILL: It went into the
murky past and it was gone.

1248
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,166
GATES: But now you know.
What difference does it make?

1249
00:51:53,166 --> 00:51:55,166
O'NEILL: Everything.

1250
00:51:55,166 --> 00:51:57,700
GATES: That's the end of
our journey with Ed O'Neill

1251
00:51:57,700 --> 00:51:59,666
and Sammy Hagar.

1252
00:51:59,666 --> 00:52:03,466
join me next time when we
unlock the secrets of the past

1253
00:52:03,466 --> 00:52:07,000
for new guests on
another episode of

1254
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,033
“Finding Your Roots.”