1 00:00:04,676 --> 00:00:06,476 GATES: I'm Henry Louis Gates, Jr. 2 00:00:06,476 --> 00:00:09,276 Welcome to Finding Your Roots. 3 00:00:09,276 --> 00:00:13,176 In this episode, we'll meet journalist Jim Acosta and 4 00:00:13,176 --> 00:00:16,409 political commentator Van Jones, 5 00:00:16,409 --> 00:00:18,676 two men with fundamental questions 6 00:00:18,676 --> 00:00:21,543 about their family trees. 7 00:00:22,009 --> 00:00:24,843 ACOSTA: This is like turning on a light in a dark room. 8 00:00:24,843 --> 00:00:28,943 I'm just learning about a world that I just never knew existed, 9 00:00:28,943 --> 00:00:32,543 and to some extent was not explored intentionally. 10 00:00:32,543 --> 00:00:33,776 JONES: Never heard anything about it. 11 00:00:33,776 --> 00:00:37,143 It's so sad because, you know, these people, 12 00:00:37,143 --> 00:00:39,343 they're living full lives. 13 00:00:39,343 --> 00:00:40,976 They're getting up every day, they're doing stuff, 14 00:00:40,976 --> 00:00:42,476 they have dreams, they have ambitions. 15 00:00:42,476 --> 00:00:45,309 And then, it just goes down the memory hole. 16 00:00:45,309 --> 00:00:49,476 GATES: To uncover their roots, we've used every tool available. 17 00:00:49,476 --> 00:00:51,409 Genealogists combed through the paper trail 18 00:00:51,409 --> 00:00:53,243 their ancestors left behind, 19 00:00:53,243 --> 00:00:56,609 while DNA experts utilized the latest advances in 20 00:00:56,609 --> 00:01:01,176 genetic analysis to reveal secrets hundreds of years old. 21 00:01:01,176 --> 00:01:02,343 ACOSTA: That's crazy. 22 00:01:02,343 --> 00:01:03,409 GATES: It is. 23 00:01:03,409 --> 00:01:04,476 ACOSTA: I didn't think there was any way in hell 24 00:01:04,476 --> 00:01:05,809 you were going to tell me that. 25 00:01:05,809 --> 00:01:09,076 GATES: And we've compiled it all into a book of life... 26 00:01:09,076 --> 00:01:10,709 ACOSTA: Oh my gosh, this is incredible. 27 00:01:10,709 --> 00:01:12,743 GATES: A record of all of our discoveries... 28 00:01:12,743 --> 00:01:14,443 JONES: What? 29 00:01:14,443 --> 00:01:17,376 GATES: And a window into the hidden past. 30 00:01:17,376 --> 00:01:18,809 ACOSTA: You just don't know until you start 31 00:01:18,809 --> 00:01:20,476 scratching the surface, you know? 32 00:01:20,476 --> 00:01:21,776 GATES: Mm-hmm. 33 00:01:21,776 --> 00:01:23,843 ACOSTA: Your preconceived notions of what you think 34 00:01:23,843 --> 00:01:26,009 about yourself, where you came from, 35 00:01:26,009 --> 00:01:29,543 who you are doesn't mean squat unless you know the truth. 36 00:01:29,543 --> 00:01:31,276 JONES: I feel like I owe them a lot. 37 00:01:31,276 --> 00:01:32,543 GATES: Mm-hmm. 38 00:01:32,543 --> 00:01:36,809 JONES: You know, you die twice, you die when your body dies 39 00:01:36,809 --> 00:01:39,543 and then you die the last time somebody says your name. 40 00:01:39,543 --> 00:01:41,076 GATES: That's right. 41 00:01:41,076 --> 00:01:44,976 JONES: So I'm gonna make sure that I keep them alive. 42 00:01:45,409 --> 00:01:46,843 GATES: My two guests have covered some of the 43 00:01:46,843 --> 00:01:49,343 most important stories of our time. 44 00:01:49,343 --> 00:01:53,243 In this episode, they're going to turn their focus inward, 45 00:01:53,243 --> 00:01:57,243 meeting people from their own families whose names 46 00:01:57,243 --> 00:02:00,576 they don't even know, and hearing stories that 47 00:02:00,576 --> 00:02:03,843 are important because they are so deeply personal. 48 00:02:11,776 --> 00:02:17,843 (theme music playing). 49 00:02:21,676 --> 00:02:26,476 ♪ ♪ 50 00:02:26,476 --> 00:02:27,576 (book closes) 51 00:02:34,076 --> 00:02:40,609 ♪ ♪ 52 00:02:46,043 --> 00:02:49,876 GATES: There's more to Van Jones than meets the eye. 53 00:02:50,543 --> 00:02:53,809 The former lawyer has been a  CNN host and commentator 54 00:02:53,809 --> 00:02:56,576 since 2013, 55 00:02:56,576 --> 00:02:59,776 but he also spent three decades involved in 56 00:02:59,776 --> 00:03:01,976 civil rights activism, 57 00:03:01,976 --> 00:03:05,876 has written a best-selling book on green jobs, 58 00:03:05,876 --> 00:03:08,576 and even worked with the Trump administration 59 00:03:08,576 --> 00:03:11,809 on criminal justice reform. 60 00:03:12,243 --> 00:03:14,909 It's a dizzying array of accomplishments, 61 00:03:14,909 --> 00:03:19,209 and Van traces them all back to a single source: 62 00:03:19,209 --> 00:03:21,676 his mother, a high school teacher, 63 00:03:21,676 --> 00:03:24,043 who was raised in the Jim Crow south, 64 00:03:24,043 --> 00:03:27,543 and taught her son to aim high. 65 00:03:28,943 --> 00:03:34,343 JONES: I felt a responsibility to fight racism with excellence. 66 00:03:34,343 --> 00:03:35,509 GATES: Mm-hmm. 67 00:03:35,509 --> 00:03:37,076 JONES: That was the message. 68 00:03:37,076 --> 00:03:39,543 My mom would tell me you're just as smart 69 00:03:39,543 --> 00:03:41,176 as those White kids. 70 00:03:41,176 --> 00:03:43,076 You can do whatever you want to do. 71 00:03:43,076 --> 00:03:44,609 I mean to me it was like a mantra. 72 00:03:44,609 --> 00:03:46,343 I mean she would say it every day. 73 00:03:46,343 --> 00:03:48,209 She says, "I'm teaching these White kids now. 74 00:03:48,209 --> 00:03:50,109 I'm telling you, you're just as smart as the White kids. 75 00:03:50,109 --> 00:03:52,276 You can do whatever you want to do." 76 00:03:52,276 --> 00:03:54,543 One of the last conversations I had with my mother before 77 00:03:54,543 --> 00:03:58,076 she died, she said, I said, "Do you love me, Mom?" 78 00:03:58,076 --> 00:03:59,443 She goes, "Yes, I love you." 79 00:03:59,443 --> 00:04:00,976 I said, "Why?" 80 00:04:00,976 --> 00:04:02,643 She goes, "Because you're not stupid." 81 00:04:02,643 --> 00:04:05,109 (laughing) 82 00:04:05,109 --> 00:04:06,576 GATES: That's great. 83 00:04:06,576 --> 00:04:07,943 You mean, Mom, if I had been stupid 84 00:04:07,943 --> 00:04:09,109 you wouldn't have loved me? 85 00:04:09,109 --> 00:04:10,276 JONES: Maybe not. Maybe not. 86 00:04:10,276 --> 00:04:11,609 GATES: Oh, that's great. 87 00:04:11,609 --> 00:04:14,143 While Van's mother was supportive, 88 00:04:14,143 --> 00:04:17,443 the world around him was decidedly less so. 89 00:04:18,376 --> 00:04:21,376 Van grew up in Jackson, Tennessee, 90 00:04:21,376 --> 00:04:24,943 a small town where he often felt out of place, 91 00:04:24,943 --> 00:04:27,743 for a wide variety of reasons. 92 00:04:29,109 --> 00:04:33,209 JONES: I was very shy. I was very small. 93 00:04:33,209 --> 00:04:36,009 You know, I was bullied. I was made fun of. 94 00:04:36,009 --> 00:04:38,843 I was, you know...Wedgies. 95 00:04:38,843 --> 00:04:40,076 GATES: Mmm-hmm. 96 00:04:40,076 --> 00:04:42,709 JONES: I would sometimes just go in the gym during the 97 00:04:42,709 --> 00:04:45,409 lunch breaks because it was empty. 98 00:04:45,409 --> 00:04:49,043 And I would just go behind the bleachers and eat my food 99 00:04:49,043 --> 00:04:52,143 by myself because I didn't want to be teased and made fun of 100 00:04:52,143 --> 00:04:54,243 and just, all the little rough and tumble stuff. 101 00:04:54,243 --> 00:04:55,476 I was a very sensitive kid... 102 00:04:55,476 --> 00:04:56,776 GATES: Mm-hm. 103 00:04:56,776 --> 00:05:00,876 JONES: And um, I think it's part of why I am the way I am 104 00:05:00,876 --> 00:05:02,943 on television and other parts of my life 105 00:05:02,943 --> 00:05:06,376 is that I know what it's like to be misunderstood. 106 00:05:06,376 --> 00:05:07,576 GATES: Mm-hmm. 107 00:05:07,576 --> 00:05:09,643 JONES: I know what it's like to be laughed at. 108 00:05:09,643 --> 00:05:11,743 I know what it's like to be left out. 109 00:05:11,743 --> 00:05:12,976 I know. 110 00:05:12,976 --> 00:05:14,676 I don't have to guess. 111 00:05:14,676 --> 00:05:17,109 GATES: Van's salvation was his education, 112 00:05:17,109 --> 00:05:20,776 he left Jackson for the University of Tennessee, 113 00:05:20,776 --> 00:05:22,643 and excelled, 114 00:05:22,643 --> 00:05:25,243 his next stop was Yale Law School, 115 00:05:25,243 --> 00:05:27,943 which propelled him into the public sphere, 116 00:05:27,943 --> 00:05:32,943 setting him on the diverse paths he's been following ever since. 117 00:05:33,976 --> 00:05:37,676 But Van has never truly left his hometown behind, 118 00:05:38,309 --> 00:05:43,176 to the contrary, his childhood experience still fuels him. 119 00:05:45,509 --> 00:05:47,643 JONES: I do not, at this stage of my life, 120 00:05:47,643 --> 00:05:52,176 enjoy finding reasons to be angry and upset, 121 00:05:52,176 --> 00:05:54,276 even though I maybe should be angry and upset. 122 00:05:54,276 --> 00:05:55,909 Maybe bad things are happening in the world. 123 00:05:55,909 --> 00:05:57,209 It's true. 124 00:05:57,209 --> 00:06:00,543 But for me, what I learned in that little, small town was 125 00:06:00,543 --> 00:06:04,009 that everybody counts, everybody matters, 126 00:06:04,009 --> 00:06:05,909 everybody has good days. 127 00:06:05,909 --> 00:06:07,276 Everybody has bad days. 128 00:06:07,276 --> 00:06:09,143 Nobody's the villain in their own movie. 129 00:06:09,143 --> 00:06:10,276 GATES: Right. 130 00:06:10,276 --> 00:06:12,343 JONES: Nobody's the villain in their own movie. 131 00:06:12,343 --> 00:06:14,543 If you could understand their story you might be able to 132 00:06:14,543 --> 00:06:16,309 make a connection. 133 00:06:16,309 --> 00:06:19,243 I've taken that through my whole career. 134 00:06:19,876 --> 00:06:22,376 GATES: My second guest is Jim Acosta, 135 00:06:22,376 --> 00:06:25,743 the veteran CNNjournalist who came to fame 136 00:06:25,743 --> 00:06:29,609 during the Trump era, when he battled with the president 137 00:06:29,609 --> 00:06:32,509 over a range of issues, 138 00:06:32,509 --> 00:06:36,276 from immigration to the first amendment. 139 00:06:36,276 --> 00:06:39,843 Much like Van Jones, Jim is an idealist, 140 00:06:39,843 --> 00:06:44,209 with an old school passion for his profession. 141 00:06:45,543 --> 00:06:47,476 ACOSTA: We're here to hold people accountable. 142 00:06:47,476 --> 00:06:49,243 We're here to hold the powerful accountable. 143 00:06:49,243 --> 00:06:50,309 GATES: Mm-hmm. 144 00:06:50,309 --> 00:06:51,843 ACOSTA: Hold their feet to the fire, uh, 145 00:06:51,843 --> 00:06:53,009 speak truth to power. 146 00:06:53,009 --> 00:06:54,309 GATES: Mm-hmm. 147 00:06:54,309 --> 00:06:56,109 ACOSTA: Uh, they, they, those sound like corny things that 148 00:06:56,109 --> 00:06:58,109 journalists talk about, putting ourselves up on a 149 00:06:58,109 --> 00:07:01,843 pedestal and so on, uh, but it is what we're here to do. 150 00:07:01,843 --> 00:07:02,909 GATES: Mm-hmm. 151 00:07:02,909 --> 00:07:04,509 ACOSTA: And if we're not doing it, 152 00:07:04,509 --> 00:07:06,243 what are the people in power gonna do? 153 00:07:06,243 --> 00:07:07,543 GATES: Absolutely. 154 00:07:07,543 --> 00:07:08,476 ACOSTA: They're gonna try to get away with e, with everything. 155 00:07:08,476 --> 00:07:09,509 GATES: Mm-hmm. 156 00:07:09,509 --> 00:07:10,543 ACOSTA: And probably take the country 157 00:07:10,543 --> 00:07:11,609 down the tubes in the process. 158 00:07:11,609 --> 00:07:12,609 GATES: Mm. 159 00:07:12,609 --> 00:07:13,609 ACOSTA: Can't let that happen. 160 00:07:13,609 --> 00:07:14,709 GATES: You've seen that close up. 161 00:07:14,709 --> 00:07:17,043 ACOSTA: I saw that, I had a ringside seat for it. 162 00:07:18,076 --> 00:07:21,543 GATES: Jim came to his "ringside seat" via 163 00:07:21,543 --> 00:07:23,976 a circuitous path. 164 00:07:23,976 --> 00:07:27,376 he was raised in northern Virginia, not far from the 165 00:07:27,376 --> 00:07:31,876 Washington power scene he now covers, but in reality, 166 00:07:31,876 --> 00:07:33,843 a world away. 167 00:07:34,509 --> 00:07:36,809 His father was a Cuban immigrant, 168 00:07:36,809 --> 00:07:40,243 his mother a local Washingtonian, 169 00:07:40,243 --> 00:07:45,309 they met as teenagers and split up when Jim was a child, 170 00:07:45,843 --> 00:07:48,543 leaving him to make sense of their relationship 171 00:07:48,543 --> 00:07:51,676 and his identity. 172 00:07:52,409 --> 00:07:54,743 ACOSTA: I was an oops, my mom had me when she was 173 00:07:54,743 --> 00:07:56,043 17 years old. 174 00:07:56,043 --> 00:07:57,209 GATES: Oh my goodness. 175 00:07:57,209 --> 00:07:58,243 ACOSTA: Yeah. You know. 176 00:07:58,243 --> 00:08:00,209 She raised me as a, as a single mom... 177 00:08:00,209 --> 00:08:01,309 GATES: Mm-hmm. 178 00:08:01,309 --> 00:08:03,143 ACOSTA: While working her, in restaurants. 179 00:08:03,143 --> 00:08:07,176 Um, my dad to his credit stayed in the picture. 180 00:08:07,176 --> 00:08:09,143 You know, he moved to, uh, just a short distance away 181 00:08:09,143 --> 00:08:11,609 from where I was growing up, and, uh, 182 00:08:11,609 --> 00:08:13,409 I saw him on the weekends. 183 00:08:13,409 --> 00:08:15,443 And so, in, you know, I had both parents, right? 184 00:08:15,443 --> 00:08:16,676 GATES: Mm-hmm. 185 00:08:16,676 --> 00:08:18,043 ACOSTA: You know, they just weren't in the same house. 186 00:08:18,043 --> 00:08:20,976 GATES: And, I bet she got grief for having a Cuban husband. 187 00:08:20,976 --> 00:08:22,709 ACOSTA: Yeah, to the point where she, you know, 188 00:08:22,709 --> 00:08:24,009 she didn't really want... 189 00:08:24,009 --> 00:08:27,076 She didn't want any Spanish language around her, you know. 190 00:08:27,076 --> 00:08:28,209 Nothing. 191 00:08:28,209 --> 00:08:30,143 GATES: Sure. No, right. 192 00:08:30,143 --> 00:08:31,876 ACOSTA: It was two different worlds, you know? 193 00:08:31,876 --> 00:08:34,609 English speaking world, White world Monday through Friday. 194 00:08:34,609 --> 00:08:35,876 GATES: Mm-hmm. 195 00:08:35,876 --> 00:08:37,209 ACOSTA: Saturday and Sunday, Cuban world. 196 00:08:37,209 --> 00:08:38,243 GATES: Right. 197 00:08:38,243 --> 00:08:39,309 ACOSTA: That's what... That was... 198 00:08:39,309 --> 00:08:41,543 That was my upbringing. 199 00:08:41,543 --> 00:08:44,276 GATES: Jim's parents were so caught up in their own 200 00:08:44,276 --> 00:08:46,976 struggles that they didn't push him towards 201 00:08:46,976 --> 00:08:52,643 any particular profession, so Jim did it all on his own. 202 00:08:53,743 --> 00:08:57,343 After college, he began working at local television stations, 203 00:08:57,343 --> 00:09:02,276 moving from Tennessee, to Chicago, to Dallas 204 00:09:02,276 --> 00:09:06,243 before ultimately landing a national correspondent's gig 205 00:09:06,243 --> 00:09:10,309 at CNN, where he's thrived. 206 00:09:10,876 --> 00:09:13,376 It's been an extraordinary ascent, 207 00:09:13,376 --> 00:09:17,709 but Jim's never lost sight of where it all began. 208 00:09:19,409 --> 00:09:21,409 ACOSTA: You know, I, always in the back of my mind 209 00:09:21,409 --> 00:09:23,876 I'm thinking, okay, what would my parents wanna ask? 210 00:09:23,876 --> 00:09:24,909 What would they... 211 00:09:24,909 --> 00:09:25,943 GATES: Hmm. 212 00:09:25,943 --> 00:09:27,076 ACOSTA: Wanna know? 213 00:09:27,076 --> 00:09:29,276 What would the folks at my mom's bar wanna know, 214 00:09:29,276 --> 00:09:30,609 sitting on the bar stool? 215 00:09:30,609 --> 00:09:32,143 What are they, what are they talking about? 216 00:09:32,143 --> 00:09:33,176 GATES: Mm-hmm. 217 00:09:33,176 --> 00:09:34,476 ACOSTA: What do they care about? 218 00:09:34,476 --> 00:09:38,276 And I, I also think, you know, there are a lot of critics, 219 00:09:38,276 --> 00:09:39,476 critics out there who say, 220 00:09:39,476 --> 00:09:40,976 "You guys in the elite media," and so on. 221 00:09:40,976 --> 00:09:42,443 I'm like, "Wait a minute." 222 00:09:42,443 --> 00:09:43,776 GATES: Mm-hmm. 223 00:09:43,776 --> 00:09:45,543 ACOSTA: My, my parents had me when they were in high school. 224 00:09:45,543 --> 00:09:46,709 GATES: Right. 225 00:09:46,709 --> 00:09:48,209 ACOSTA: My mom and dad worked in blue collar jobs. 226 00:09:48,209 --> 00:09:49,509 I am far from... 227 00:09:49,509 --> 00:09:50,509 GATES: Mm-hmm. 228 00:09:50,509 --> 00:09:51,543 ACOSTA: The elite... 229 00:09:51,543 --> 00:09:52,543 GATES: Mm-hmm. 230 00:09:52,543 --> 00:09:53,843 ACOSTA: Uh, in this country. 231 00:09:53,843 --> 00:09:55,609 If anything, I think I came from the bottom up, and, you know, 232 00:09:55,609 --> 00:09:57,943 along the way you do learn a lot about life. 233 00:09:57,943 --> 00:10:00,243 And I don't know, I would, I don't, I know for a fact 234 00:10:00,243 --> 00:10:03,276 I would not be here if it weren't for those lessons 235 00:10:03,276 --> 00:10:05,309 that I learned. 236 00:10:05,309 --> 00:10:08,209 GATES: Jim and Van share similar occupations, 237 00:10:08,209 --> 00:10:11,143 but they also share something deeper. 238 00:10:11,576 --> 00:10:14,209 They've been telling other people's stories for decades, 239 00:10:14,209 --> 00:10:17,843 while knowing only a fraction of their own stories. 240 00:10:18,743 --> 00:10:21,209 It was time for that to change. 241 00:10:21,209 --> 00:10:23,843 Each would now travel with me up branches of their 242 00:10:23,843 --> 00:10:26,509 family trees that they thought they knew, 243 00:10:26,509 --> 00:10:27,976 to uncover a reality 244 00:10:27,976 --> 00:10:33,076 that was far more complex than they'd ever imagined. 245 00:10:34,409 --> 00:10:39,043 For Van Jones, the journey began with his maternal grandfather, 246 00:10:39,043 --> 00:10:41,609 Chester Kirkendoll. 247 00:10:41,609 --> 00:10:43,376 Chester was a bishop in the 248 00:10:43,376 --> 00:10:46,176 Christian Methodist Episcopal church, 249 00:10:46,176 --> 00:10:49,576 and a towering figure in Van's childhood, 250 00:10:49,576 --> 00:10:52,676 in every sense of the word. 251 00:10:53,343 --> 00:10:55,676 JONES: He was a giant. He was tall. 252 00:10:55,676 --> 00:10:57,609 I think he was like 6'3", 6'4". 253 00:10:57,609 --> 00:11:00,643 And we would go to these conferences, 254 00:11:00,643 --> 00:11:02,476 these church conferences 255 00:11:02,476 --> 00:11:04,643 and uh, you know, my cousins and I, 256 00:11:04,643 --> 00:11:06,376 we'd be sitting there and, you know, 257 00:11:06,376 --> 00:11:07,876 kind of fooling around or whatever. 258 00:11:07,876 --> 00:11:12,476 Then they would say we had the bishop's grandsons here. 259 00:11:12,476 --> 00:11:14,943 Oh, crap. 260 00:11:14,943 --> 00:11:15,976 GATES: Yeah. 261 00:11:15,976 --> 00:11:18,376 JONES: And then my grandfather, please rise. 262 00:11:18,376 --> 00:11:20,909 We'd stand up, you know, with our little, 263 00:11:20,909 --> 00:11:22,643 you know, clip-on ties. 264 00:11:22,643 --> 00:11:24,043 Everybody's clapping. 265 00:11:24,043 --> 00:11:25,643 Oh, we got the bishop's grandsons here. 266 00:11:25,643 --> 00:11:27,443 We got the... now, you're scared to mess up. 267 00:11:27,443 --> 00:11:29,243 Now, you have to sit there and be good. 268 00:11:29,243 --> 00:11:30,276 GATES: You couldn't go to sleep. 269 00:11:30,276 --> 00:11:31,643 JONES: Couldn't go to sleep. 270 00:11:31,643 --> 00:11:34,076 Couldn't be, you know, teasing and acting crazy. 271 00:11:34,076 --> 00:11:35,809 Uh, we were in awe of him. 272 00:11:35,809 --> 00:11:36,943 GATES: Mm-hmm. 273 00:11:36,943 --> 00:11:39,243 JONES: We were really in awe of my grandfather. 274 00:11:39,243 --> 00:11:41,409 GATES: Though Chester was revered, 275 00:11:41,409 --> 00:11:44,843 the Kirkendoll's family history was not passed down. 276 00:11:45,909 --> 00:11:48,943 Van suspected that his grandfather's deeper roots 277 00:11:48,943 --> 00:11:52,343 disappeared into the mist of slavery, 278 00:11:52,343 --> 00:11:55,109 but he knew nothing specific. 279 00:11:55,109 --> 00:11:57,743 Moving back three generations, 280 00:11:57,743 --> 00:12:01,243 we came to a man named Mark Kirkendall. 281 00:12:01,843 --> 00:12:05,009 Mark is listed by name in the 1850 census for 282 00:12:05,009 --> 00:12:07,876 Douglas township, Arkansas, 283 00:12:07,876 --> 00:12:10,476 living with his wife and children. 284 00:12:10,476 --> 00:12:13,243 This was unusual because, at the time, 285 00:12:13,243 --> 00:12:16,776 almost no African Americans were listed by name 286 00:12:16,776 --> 00:12:18,976 in the federal census, 287 00:12:18,976 --> 00:12:24,343 enslaved people were listed only by age, color and gender. 288 00:12:27,376 --> 00:12:28,909 JONES: Hum. 289 00:12:28,909 --> 00:12:30,876 GATES: Van, what's that mean? 290 00:12:30,876 --> 00:12:32,443 JONES: Does it mean they're White? 291 00:12:32,443 --> 00:12:33,909 That means... 292 00:12:33,909 --> 00:12:36,609 GATES: No. What's the only alternative? 293 00:12:36,609 --> 00:12:37,909 They weren't slaves. They were... 294 00:12:37,909 --> 00:12:39,243 JONES: Free people. 295 00:12:39,243 --> 00:12:40,343 GATES: Free. 296 00:12:40,343 --> 00:12:42,143 JONES: That's crazy. So... 297 00:12:42,143 --> 00:12:45,476 GATES: Your Kirkendoll family was free 13 years before the 298 00:12:45,476 --> 00:12:47,676 Emancipation Proclamation. 299 00:12:47,676 --> 00:12:50,176 JONES: I'm glad to hear that. 300 00:13:02,843 --> 00:13:06,509 I had a hard time even getting my head there. 301 00:13:06,509 --> 00:13:09,443 It didn't even occur to me that would be a possibility. 302 00:13:09,443 --> 00:13:11,543 GATES: Of course. 303 00:13:15,876 --> 00:13:17,909 And you had no idea? 304 00:13:17,909 --> 00:13:21,209 JONES: Mm-mm. 305 00:13:25,109 --> 00:13:28,676 GATES: What's it like to learn this? 306 00:13:32,076 --> 00:13:35,076 JONES: You know, we've been here for a long time, 307 00:13:35,076 --> 00:13:36,343 all Black families. 308 00:13:36,343 --> 00:13:39,543 We have some folks, you know, from Nigeria and Ghana and 309 00:13:39,543 --> 00:13:41,409 stuff now but most Black families have been here for 310 00:13:41,409 --> 00:13:46,176 a long time, and um... 311 00:13:46,176 --> 00:13:48,443 you just don't know what they all went through 312 00:13:48,443 --> 00:13:51,309 or what they were able to achieve. 313 00:13:51,309 --> 00:13:53,243 Um... 314 00:13:53,243 --> 00:13:56,909 What they were able to overcome or not overcome. 315 00:13:56,909 --> 00:13:58,043 You just don't know. 316 00:13:58,043 --> 00:13:59,309 GATES: Mm-hmm. 317 00:13:59,309 --> 00:14:03,976 JONES: And, um, so, you just kind of borrow these assumptions 318 00:14:03,976 --> 00:14:06,276 based on pop culture, based on roots, 319 00:14:06,276 --> 00:14:07,676 based on whatever you can grab. 320 00:14:07,676 --> 00:14:09,476 Whatever you can, whatever little bits 321 00:14:09,476 --> 00:14:12,743 you can put together and mostly it's just imagination. 322 00:14:13,276 --> 00:14:16,676 But just to know that somehow somebody in my family 323 00:14:16,676 --> 00:14:21,443 got free, somehow. 324 00:14:21,443 --> 00:14:25,643 They didn't need, they didn't need Lincoln to free them. 325 00:14:25,643 --> 00:14:26,709 GATES: No. 326 00:14:26,709 --> 00:14:28,309 JONES: They got free on their own. 327 00:14:28,309 --> 00:14:29,843 GATES: They did indeed. 328 00:14:29,843 --> 00:14:32,643 JONES: Yeah, I like that. 329 00:14:33,676 --> 00:14:35,976 GATES: Van wanted to know how his ancestors had 330 00:14:35,976 --> 00:14:37,643 won their freedom, 331 00:14:37,643 --> 00:14:40,543 and this led us to an incredible story. 332 00:14:41,543 --> 00:14:46,776 In 1828, Van's third-great grandfather, Mark Kirkendall, 333 00:14:46,776 --> 00:14:50,076 was one of four enslaved people manumitted by 334 00:14:50,076 --> 00:14:54,343 the will of an Arkansas farmer named Joseph Kuykendall. 335 00:14:55,143 --> 00:14:58,276 But the will contained a catch. 336 00:14:58,276 --> 00:15:02,143 It decreed that Joseph's slaves would not be granted 337 00:15:02,143 --> 00:15:07,576 their freedom until they paid $800 to his sons, 338 00:15:08,443 --> 00:15:12,643 so after Joseph's death, Mark remained in bondage, 339 00:15:12,643 --> 00:15:16,009 working for the Kuykendall's. 340 00:15:16,009 --> 00:15:19,709 And this arrangement did not end well. 341 00:15:21,143 --> 00:15:22,376 JONES: "Murder. 342 00:15:22,376 --> 00:15:24,609 We understand that Benjamin Kuykendall was 343 00:15:24,609 --> 00:15:26,509 shot last week by Mark, 344 00:15:26,509 --> 00:15:29,176 one of the slaves recently emancipated by the will 345 00:15:29,176 --> 00:15:31,343 of the late Joseph Kuykendall, 346 00:15:31,343 --> 00:15:33,509 and died in about three-quarters of an hour. 347 00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:36,043 The Negro made his escape but was pursued and taken 348 00:15:36,043 --> 00:15:39,743 last night a few miles below this place." 349 00:15:40,576 --> 00:15:41,876 What? 350 00:15:41,876 --> 00:15:44,609 (laughing) 351 00:15:44,609 --> 00:15:47,243 What? 352 00:15:47,776 --> 00:15:49,776 He's out here gun slinging? 353 00:15:49,776 --> 00:15:51,676 GATES: Can you believe that? 354 00:15:51,676 --> 00:15:55,309 JONES: That's an unexpected plot twist. 355 00:15:57,543 --> 00:16:00,409 GATES: Though this article describes Mark as being 356 00:16:00,409 --> 00:16:04,143 "emancipated", that technically wasn't true, 357 00:16:04,143 --> 00:16:07,643 he had not yet paid off his $800, 358 00:16:07,643 --> 00:16:11,043 so, legally, he was still enslaved, 359 00:16:11,043 --> 00:16:16,076 and now he was in jail for killing a White man, 360 00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:18,776 many African Americans in his position 361 00:16:18,776 --> 00:16:21,209 would have been lynched, 362 00:16:21,209 --> 00:16:24,443 but Mark was not about to let that happen. 363 00:16:25,576 --> 00:16:27,443 JONES: "A murderer escaped. 364 00:16:27,443 --> 00:16:29,609 Mark, the Negro man who recently killed 365 00:16:29,609 --> 00:16:33,843 Mr. Benjamin Kuykendall in this county effected his escape from 366 00:16:33,843 --> 00:16:37,776 the jail in this place on the evening of the 30 of July. 367 00:16:38,109 --> 00:16:41,709 He had been very heavily ironed by the sheriff but 368 00:16:41,709 --> 00:16:45,909 these he contrived to saw off with a case knife with which 369 00:16:45,909 --> 00:16:48,509 he was furnished by some person outside the jail and 370 00:16:48,509 --> 00:16:50,776 someone watched an opportunity when the sheriff and his wife 371 00:16:50,776 --> 00:16:53,276 were both absent to unlock the door. 372 00:16:53,276 --> 00:16:54,976 The keys of which had been carelessly left 373 00:16:54,976 --> 00:16:56,809 in plain sight." 374 00:16:56,809 --> 00:17:00,409 Oh, sookie-sookie now. 375 00:17:02,576 --> 00:17:04,443 GATES: Your ancestor escaped. 376 00:17:04,443 --> 00:17:06,976 JONES: Man, my ancestors be doing real stuff, man. 377 00:17:06,976 --> 00:17:08,409 GATES: This is like a movie. 378 00:17:08,409 --> 00:17:11,443 I mean this is better than any Black history movie 379 00:17:11,443 --> 00:17:13,609 out of Hollywood that you've ever seen, right. 380 00:17:13,609 --> 00:17:16,109 JONES: That's crazy. You think he like... 381 00:17:16,109 --> 00:17:17,809 Who knows what happened but I'm going to say, you know, 382 00:17:17,809 --> 00:17:19,243 in self-defense he killed this dude. 383 00:17:19,243 --> 00:17:20,409 They locked him up. 384 00:17:20,409 --> 00:17:24,009 He got himself free and he had a whole conspiracy. 385 00:17:24,009 --> 00:17:25,343 GATES: What are you feeling right now? 386 00:17:25,343 --> 00:17:26,643 This is real. 387 00:17:26,643 --> 00:17:28,276 JONES: I know. This is crazy. 388 00:17:28,276 --> 00:17:32,043 I, um, uh, well... 389 00:17:32,043 --> 00:17:33,676 A, I'm glad he escaped. 390 00:17:33,676 --> 00:17:34,709 GATES: Mm-hmm 391 00:17:34,709 --> 00:17:35,876 JONES: I don't know. 392 00:17:35,876 --> 00:17:41,709 I just, part of what I think is inherent to 393 00:17:41,709 --> 00:17:43,576 being Black in America 394 00:17:43,576 --> 00:17:46,809 is this hope that you can beat the odds. 395 00:17:46,809 --> 00:17:51,809 That you know the odds are against you but that 396 00:17:51,809 --> 00:17:53,009 there's some way that you can beat them. 397 00:17:53,009 --> 00:17:54,309 GATES: Right. 398 00:17:54,309 --> 00:17:57,876 JONES: That's where the soul and the drive and the pain and 399 00:17:57,876 --> 00:18:01,376 the pride all come from is going up against the odds. 400 00:18:01,376 --> 00:18:02,609 GATES: Yeah. 401 00:18:02,609 --> 00:18:05,109 JONES: And um... he went up against the odds and won, 402 00:18:05,109 --> 00:18:06,376 it looks like. 403 00:18:06,376 --> 00:18:09,809 I'm scared to turn the page, but right now my family winning. 404 00:18:10,976 --> 00:18:14,809 GATES: Mark's winning streak would soon come to an end. 405 00:18:15,209 --> 00:18:18,843 He was caught in Louisiana, returned to Arkansas, 406 00:18:18,843 --> 00:18:23,343 and put on trial for murder, a capital offense. 407 00:18:24,176 --> 00:18:27,209 But Mark still had luck on his side. 408 00:18:27,209 --> 00:18:29,609 The jury convicted him of manslaughter, 409 00:18:29,609 --> 00:18:31,376 a lesser charge, 410 00:18:31,376 --> 00:18:33,676 likely with the encouragement of the 411 00:18:33,676 --> 00:18:36,476 surviving Kuykendall brothers. 412 00:18:36,476 --> 00:18:37,943 Their reason? 413 00:18:37,943 --> 00:18:39,643 Money. 414 00:18:39,643 --> 00:18:42,076 The brothers still owned Mark, 415 00:18:42,076 --> 00:18:46,076 so a manslaughter conviction would preserve their property, 416 00:18:46,076 --> 00:18:49,976 whereas Mark's execution would leave them with nothing. 417 00:18:52,009 --> 00:18:56,243 JONES: This is a barbaric society we're describing, man. 418 00:18:56,843 --> 00:18:59,243 It's like we would kill you but we own you. 419 00:18:59,243 --> 00:19:00,343 GATES: Yeah, exactly. 420 00:19:00,343 --> 00:19:01,643 They say we ought to kill him. 421 00:19:01,643 --> 00:19:03,043 Well, if they kill him. 422 00:19:03,043 --> 00:19:05,976 JONES: You killed my brother but if I kill you then 423 00:19:05,976 --> 00:19:07,543 I don't get the money that I would have gotten. 424 00:19:07,543 --> 00:19:08,809 GATES: Right. 425 00:19:08,809 --> 00:19:11,176 JONES: Wow. That's crazy. 426 00:19:11,176 --> 00:19:15,109 GATES: This story was about to grow even crazier. 427 00:19:15,976 --> 00:19:19,109 following his conviction, Mark was sentenced to 428 00:19:19,109 --> 00:19:22,043 three years in an Arkansas prison. 429 00:19:22,043 --> 00:19:25,243 But he didn't stay in prison for long. 430 00:19:25,243 --> 00:19:27,043 Van, this article was published in the 431 00:19:27,043 --> 00:19:29,876 Arkansas Gazette on June 29, 1830. 432 00:19:29,876 --> 00:19:31,309 JONES: Hey. 433 00:19:31,309 --> 00:19:33,043 Man, don't mess with my family. 434 00:19:33,043 --> 00:19:35,209 That's all I'm going to let you all know right now. 435 00:19:35,209 --> 00:19:36,443 What? 436 00:19:36,443 --> 00:19:38,743 GATES: Would you please read the transcribed section? 437 00:19:38,743 --> 00:19:42,343 JONES: The Negro fellow Mark be doing things, man. 438 00:19:43,709 --> 00:19:45,376 "A pardon. 439 00:19:45,376 --> 00:19:48,576 The Negro Mark, who has been confined in jail this place 440 00:19:48,576 --> 00:19:51,109 for more than the past year has received a pardon from 441 00:19:51,109 --> 00:19:54,543 the Governor and been discharged from prison." 442 00:19:54,543 --> 00:19:56,376 What? 443 00:19:56,376 --> 00:19:58,176 Man, Mark ain't nothing to mess with. 444 00:19:58,176 --> 00:19:59,543 I'm letting you know right now. 445 00:19:59,543 --> 00:20:03,109 Look, ya know, I work on pardons myself. 446 00:20:03,109 --> 00:20:06,909 I've been fighting to free people from jails, too. 447 00:20:06,909 --> 00:20:08,243 So, I, I... 448 00:20:08,243 --> 00:20:11,743 But not like this. 449 00:20:11,743 --> 00:20:13,243 GATES: You didn't know the origin of that impulse. 450 00:20:13,243 --> 00:20:15,476 JONES: Exactly, I didn't know the origin of the impulse. 451 00:20:15,476 --> 00:20:19,443 This has been waiting to come out of my DNA for centuries. 452 00:20:21,509 --> 00:20:25,443 GATES: We have no idea why Mark was pardoned. 453 00:20:25,976 --> 00:20:28,643 The governor may have had some sympathy for him, 454 00:20:28,643 --> 00:20:31,943 or the Kuykendall brothers may have persuaded the state 455 00:20:31,943 --> 00:20:36,043 to give them back their property, whatever the reason, 456 00:20:36,043 --> 00:20:40,843 after his pardon, Mark was returned to his former owners, 457 00:20:40,843 --> 00:20:43,943 and was once again enslaved. 458 00:20:44,776 --> 00:20:49,076 But Van's ancestor had a final trick up his sleeve. 459 00:20:49,709 --> 00:20:53,543 A notice published in an Arkansas newspaper reveals 460 00:20:53,543 --> 00:20:58,109 that Mark and three others escaped en masse from the 461 00:20:58,109 --> 00:21:00,043 Kuykendall estate, 462 00:21:00,043 --> 00:21:04,443 and this time, Mark stayed free. 463 00:21:05,543 --> 00:21:06,909 JONES: They ran off again. 464 00:21:06,909 --> 00:21:09,176 GATES: Ran off again. Isn't that amazing? 465 00:21:09,176 --> 00:21:11,043 It's astonishing, really. 466 00:21:11,043 --> 00:21:12,176 JONES: Yeah, man. 467 00:21:12,176 --> 00:21:13,476 GATES: What's it like to know this guy is your 468 00:21:13,476 --> 00:21:15,876 direct antecedent? 469 00:21:15,876 --> 00:21:18,309 That you are his direct descendant. 470 00:21:18,309 --> 00:21:21,043 JONES: Well, I have a lot to live up to but, um, 471 00:21:21,043 --> 00:21:22,909 I like this guy a lot. 472 00:21:22,909 --> 00:21:28,309 Look, I mean these are real human beings just like 473 00:21:28,309 --> 00:21:30,076 anybody watching this show. 474 00:21:30,076 --> 00:21:31,576 Like, what would you do, you know? 475 00:21:31,576 --> 00:21:34,243 Like, would you just sit around and just be enslaved and 476 00:21:34,243 --> 00:21:36,543 try to like it and hope in 300 years Dr. King's 477 00:21:36,543 --> 00:21:38,143 going to come around and give a speech? 478 00:21:38,143 --> 00:21:39,176 You know what I mean? 479 00:21:39,176 --> 00:21:40,876 People fight for their freedom 480 00:21:40,876 --> 00:21:42,576 and we're still fighting for our freedom. 481 00:21:42,576 --> 00:21:47,376 But I feel very proud of him. 482 00:21:47,376 --> 00:21:50,943 This dude is... 483 00:21:50,943 --> 00:21:53,543 The Negro fellow Mark ain't nothing nice, 484 00:21:53,543 --> 00:21:55,909 ain't nothing to play with. 485 00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:58,609 GATES: What are you going to tell your kids about this? 486 00:21:58,609 --> 00:22:00,043 JONES: I'm going to tell my kids they come from a 487 00:22:00,043 --> 00:22:03,009 real serious line of freedom fighters, you know. 488 00:22:03,009 --> 00:22:05,943 Uh, and people who fought with what they had. 489 00:22:05,943 --> 00:22:07,843 Uh, I don't know. 490 00:22:07,843 --> 00:22:11,109 The guy had a file, somebody slipped him a file. 491 00:22:11,109 --> 00:22:12,776 He didn't file his fingernails. 492 00:22:12,776 --> 00:22:15,276 He's filing the chains off. You know what I mean? 493 00:22:15,276 --> 00:22:16,576 You fight with what you have. 494 00:22:16,576 --> 00:22:17,676 GATES: Yeah. 495 00:22:17,676 --> 00:22:21,376 JONES: Uh, and you, um, you get your family to 496 00:22:21,376 --> 00:22:24,409 a place where they can thrive. 497 00:22:25,009 --> 00:22:26,409 GATES: Unlike Van, 498 00:22:26,409 --> 00:22:29,809 Jim Acosta knew exactly where his roots lay, 499 00:22:29,809 --> 00:22:32,109 but he had no access to those roots, 500 00:22:32,109 --> 00:22:35,609 because his parents had turned their backs on them. 501 00:22:36,176 --> 00:22:38,709 We started on Jim's father's side, 502 00:22:38,709 --> 00:22:42,209 where the reason for this decision was political. 503 00:22:42,743 --> 00:22:46,176 Jim's father, Abilio Jesus Acosta, 504 00:22:46,176 --> 00:22:49,976 was born in Cuba in December of 1950. 505 00:22:50,843 --> 00:22:54,076 Abilio was nine years old when the Cuban revolution 506 00:22:54,076 --> 00:22:57,476 threw his country into chaos, 507 00:22:57,476 --> 00:22:59,209 and, just three years later, 508 00:22:59,209 --> 00:23:03,043 he and his mother fled for the United States, 509 00:23:03,043 --> 00:23:06,176 leaving everything behind. 510 00:23:07,043 --> 00:23:10,109 Jim was able to get a sense of just how much had been lost 511 00:23:10,109 --> 00:23:14,443 when he and Abilio visited Cuba in 2016, 512 00:23:14,943 --> 00:23:18,343 and Jim saw his father transformed. 513 00:23:19,443 --> 00:23:22,643 ACOSTA: It almost felt like he became, um, 514 00:23:22,643 --> 00:23:24,009 an 11-year-old kid again. 515 00:23:24,009 --> 00:23:25,009 GATES: Mm-hmm. 516 00:23:25,009 --> 00:23:26,309 ACOSTA: You know? 517 00:23:26,309 --> 00:23:28,476 Here he was in Havana, you know, roaming these streets with me, 518 00:23:28,476 --> 00:23:31,009 and he was, uh, pointing out, um, 519 00:23:31,009 --> 00:23:32,809 his childhood memories, you know? 520 00:23:32,809 --> 00:23:33,976 GATES: Mm-hmm. 521 00:23:33,976 --> 00:23:35,943 ACOSTA: He was not looking back at these memories as 522 00:23:35,943 --> 00:23:38,543 someone who recalls all, all of this as a man. 523 00:23:38,543 --> 00:23:41,943 He was re, remembering these things from when he was a boy. 524 00:23:41,943 --> 00:23:42,976 GATES: Right. 525 00:23:42,976 --> 00:23:45,043 ACOSTA: And, you know, we went out to, uh, 526 00:23:45,043 --> 00:23:48,576 the town that he grew up in, uh, Santa Maria de Rosario. 527 00:23:48,576 --> 00:23:49,876 GATES: Mm-hmm. 528 00:23:49,876 --> 00:23:52,243 ACOSTA: And, um, he, uh... 529 00:23:52,243 --> 00:23:55,076 We, we walked up to, uh, his relative's house. 530 00:23:55,076 --> 00:23:56,543 He kind of knew the way. 531 00:23:56,543 --> 00:23:57,609 GATES: Hmm. 532 00:23:57,609 --> 00:24:00,209 ACOSTA: And, uh, they... 533 00:24:00,209 --> 00:24:02,376 A couple of them were sitting on the doorstep and there was 534 00:24:02,376 --> 00:24:04,343 this, uh, older woman on the doorstep. 535 00:24:04,343 --> 00:24:06,743 I, I think she was one of his cousins. 536 00:24:06,743 --> 00:24:08,743 And, she immediately knew who he was. 537 00:24:08,743 --> 00:24:10,009 GATES: Oh, my God. 538 00:24:10,009 --> 00:24:12,809 ACOSTA: E-even though he hadn't been back in 50 years... 539 00:24:12,809 --> 00:24:14,043 GATES: Amazing. 540 00:24:14,043 --> 00:24:16,076 ACOSTA: Uh, more than 50 years. 54 years. 541 00:24:16,076 --> 00:24:18,009 She, she screams out, "Abelito." 542 00:24:18,009 --> 00:24:19,176 GATES: Huh! 543 00:24:19,176 --> 00:24:21,409 ACOSTA: And she, she recognized the 11-year-old boy 544 00:24:21,409 --> 00:24:22,443 that used to... 545 00:24:22,443 --> 00:24:23,509 GATES: Hmm. 546 00:24:23,509 --> 00:24:25,109 ACOSTA: Roam the streets of that little town. 547 00:24:25,109 --> 00:24:26,376 GATES: That's astonishing. 548 00:24:26,376 --> 00:24:27,943 ACOSTA: It's astonishing to me, but she knew exactly what... 549 00:24:27,943 --> 00:24:29,009 Brought us inside. 550 00:24:29,009 --> 00:24:30,909 We had to sit down, uh, with all of them. 551 00:24:30,909 --> 00:24:32,309 Everybody was in tears. 552 00:24:32,309 --> 00:24:33,343 GATES: Mm-hmm. 553 00:24:33,343 --> 00:24:35,343 ACOSTA: And, um, it was, uh... 554 00:24:35,343 --> 00:24:37,643 It was just a mind-blowing experience. 555 00:24:37,643 --> 00:24:39,409 I felt like I was, you know, 556 00:24:39,409 --> 00:24:42,643 traveling through time with my dad. 557 00:24:43,743 --> 00:24:45,576 GATES: Though the visit was heart-warming, 558 00:24:45,576 --> 00:24:49,109 it could not restore all the family history that had vanished 559 00:24:49,109 --> 00:24:52,176 in those 54 years, 560 00:24:52,943 --> 00:24:55,743 so Jim came to me knowing almost nothing 561 00:24:55,743 --> 00:24:58,676 about his Cuban roots. 562 00:24:59,176 --> 00:25:01,609 We were able to rectify that... 563 00:25:01,609 --> 00:25:05,143 Taking him back to his fourth great-grandparents, 564 00:25:05,143 --> 00:25:09,309 both of whom were born in the early 1800s in the same 565 00:25:09,309 --> 00:25:13,943 small town that he'd visited with his father. 566 00:25:14,276 --> 00:25:16,276 ACOSTA: Wow. 567 00:25:16,276 --> 00:25:18,376 GATES: This makes six generations of your family 568 00:25:18,376 --> 00:25:20,776 who lived in Santa Maria Del Rosario, 569 00:25:20,776 --> 00:25:22,976 all the way down to your daddy. 570 00:25:22,976 --> 00:25:24,309 ACOSTA: Wow. 571 00:25:24,309 --> 00:25:25,943 GATES: What's it like to know that you have such deep roots 572 00:25:25,943 --> 00:25:27,943 in that one place? 573 00:25:27,943 --> 00:25:29,876 What's that feel like? 574 00:25:29,876 --> 00:25:31,276 ACOSTA: It's, it's remarkable. 575 00:25:31,276 --> 00:25:34,976 It makes me think, I guess I have a homeland. 576 00:25:34,976 --> 00:25:36,209 GATES: Yeah. 577 00:25:36,209 --> 00:25:37,909 ACOSTA: Because I mean I, I had friends growing up 578 00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:39,876 who would say, "Well, we're first Virginians", 579 00:25:39,876 --> 00:25:41,343 you know, or, "You could trace our ancestors 580 00:25:41,343 --> 00:25:44,943 all the way back to the 1800s or 1700s in Virginia", blah blah. 581 00:25:44,943 --> 00:25:46,176 And I didn't have that. 582 00:25:46,176 --> 00:25:47,176 GATES: You do now. 583 00:25:47,176 --> 00:25:49,076 ACOSTA: I do now. 584 00:25:49,076 --> 00:25:51,643 GATES: Jim would soon have even more. 585 00:25:51,643 --> 00:25:56,476 We were able show him primary documents revealing how his 586 00:25:56,476 --> 00:26:00,743 ancestors lived in Santa María del Rosario, 587 00:26:00,743 --> 00:26:03,976 including census records showing that 588 00:26:03,976 --> 00:26:06,209 they leased a small farm 589 00:26:06,209 --> 00:26:09,909 and a marriage certificate recording the day they wed. 590 00:26:11,276 --> 00:26:14,676 ACOSTA: Beautiful. It's just incredible. 591 00:26:14,676 --> 00:26:18,009 It's just so, so amazing to see all of this laid out, 592 00:26:18,009 --> 00:26:20,476 um... 593 00:26:20,476 --> 00:26:23,376 I can't believe it, I can't believe it. 594 00:26:23,376 --> 00:26:25,409 GATES: Your fourth great grandparents were married on 595 00:26:25,409 --> 00:26:30,076 September 10th, 1842 in Santa Maria Del Rosario, and... 596 00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:31,909 There, you could see a photo of the church. 597 00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:34,109 ACOSTA: Amazing. Just incredible. 598 00:26:34,109 --> 00:26:35,809 And I've been to this church, I went inside. 599 00:26:35,809 --> 00:26:37,109 GATES: Oh, you did? 600 00:26:37,109 --> 00:26:39,209 ACOSTA: I've been inside this church, it's a beautiful old 601 00:26:39,209 --> 00:26:40,576 Spanish church. 602 00:26:40,576 --> 00:26:43,443 And I remember, they do have a lot of records there, 603 00:26:43,443 --> 00:26:45,043 so I-I didn't realize... 604 00:26:45,043 --> 00:26:47,076 Not this extensive, I didn't know it was this extensive. 605 00:26:47,076 --> 00:26:49,176 This is remarkable. 606 00:26:49,509 --> 00:26:52,343 GATES: As it turns out, the records we found in this 607 00:26:52,343 --> 00:26:55,809 church were just the beginning, 608 00:26:55,809 --> 00:26:59,009 we were able to trace Jim's father's family 609 00:26:59,009 --> 00:27:01,709 from Santa Maria del Rosario 610 00:27:01,709 --> 00:27:05,176 back across the Atlantic to the Canary Islands, 611 00:27:05,176 --> 00:27:08,009 which lie off the coast of Africa 612 00:27:08,009 --> 00:27:12,509 and which were colonized by Spain in the 1400s! 613 00:27:13,543 --> 00:27:18,143 We even found a document that details why Jim's ancestors 614 00:27:18,143 --> 00:27:20,943 left these islands for Cuba. 615 00:27:20,943 --> 00:27:22,076 ACOSTA: "On this day, 616 00:27:22,076 --> 00:27:24,376 and in said City of Santa Maria del Rosario, 617 00:27:24,376 --> 00:27:27,976 His honor, The Count, manifests the 30 families 618 00:27:27,976 --> 00:27:30,943 to which he is obliged to settle the new city, 619 00:27:30,943 --> 00:27:33,243 so their names will be known for all time. 620 00:27:33,243 --> 00:27:37,109 The families are the Alferez Mayor. 621 00:27:37,109 --> 00:27:38,309 Alferez Mayor." 622 00:27:38,309 --> 00:27:39,343 GATES: Mayor. Mm-hmm. 623 00:27:39,343 --> 00:27:40,876 ACOSTA: "Don Gregorio Yanez, 624 00:27:40,876 --> 00:27:44,543 the Rehedor Don Cristobal Fundora." 625 00:27:44,543 --> 00:27:45,709 GATES: Mm-hmm. 626 00:27:45,709 --> 00:27:49,643 ACOSTA: "Bernardo Caraballo de Villa Vicencio." 627 00:27:49,643 --> 00:27:50,643 GATES: Yeah. 628 00:27:50,643 --> 00:27:53,609 ACOSTA: "Al Calde De La Santa Hermandad." 629 00:27:53,609 --> 00:27:55,043 GATES: Mm-hmm. 630 00:27:55,043 --> 00:27:56,976 ACOSTA: "Salvador Hernandez Pilotto 631 00:27:56,976 --> 00:27:59,176 and Joseph del Pozo." 632 00:27:59,176 --> 00:28:00,609 GATES: Do you know what this means? 633 00:28:00,609 --> 00:28:01,676 Do you know what you just read? 634 00:28:01,676 --> 00:28:03,176 ACOSTA: These are the original settlers. 635 00:28:03,176 --> 00:28:05,243 GATES: These are the founders. 636 00:28:05,243 --> 00:28:06,843 ACOSTA: The founders. 637 00:28:06,843 --> 00:28:09,376 GATES: Of the town of Santa Maria del Rosario. 638 00:28:09,376 --> 00:28:11,376 ACOSTA: Wow. 639 00:28:11,376 --> 00:28:12,409 GATES: Jim. 640 00:28:12,409 --> 00:28:13,709 ACOSTA: Are you kidding me? 641 00:28:13,709 --> 00:28:17,009 GATES: Your family founded the town of Santa Maria del Rosario. 642 00:28:17,009 --> 00:28:18,309 ACOSTA: Is that right? 643 00:28:18,309 --> 00:28:19,609 Wow. 644 00:28:19,609 --> 00:28:22,509 GATES: They didn't just live there, they founded the town. 645 00:28:22,509 --> 00:28:26,043 ACOSTA: That's crazy. 646 00:28:26,043 --> 00:28:29,543 And when I went there, I found them living in absolute poverty. 647 00:28:29,543 --> 00:28:31,076 GATES: Yeah. 648 00:28:31,076 --> 00:28:33,376 ACOSTA: And their ancestors, my ancestors, 649 00:28:33,376 --> 00:28:34,776 started this town. 650 00:28:34,776 --> 00:28:36,943 GATES: Right. I wonder if they even know. 651 00:28:36,943 --> 00:28:38,076 ACOSTA: I don't think they know. 652 00:28:38,076 --> 00:28:40,343 I'm sure they don't know. 653 00:28:41,476 --> 00:28:44,943 GATES: Jim has at least five ancestors who helped found 654 00:28:44,943 --> 00:28:48,109 Santa María del Rosario. 655 00:28:48,709 --> 00:28:51,476 It was hard to understand how their accomplishments had been 656 00:28:51,476 --> 00:28:55,409 forgotten, but as we dug deeper into the archives, 657 00:28:55,409 --> 00:28:59,943 we saw that the family's story was far more complicated 658 00:28:59,943 --> 00:29:02,743 than it seemed. 659 00:29:02,743 --> 00:29:04,343 Would you please read the translated section? 660 00:29:04,343 --> 00:29:05,376 ACOSTA: Oh goodness, here. 661 00:29:05,376 --> 00:29:06,409 GATES: Yeah. 662 00:29:06,409 --> 00:29:07,443 ACOSTA: I can already see it. 663 00:29:07,443 --> 00:29:09,409 "Name of owner, Don Julian Yanes. 664 00:29:09,409 --> 00:29:11,109 Female slaves, one." 665 00:29:11,109 --> 00:29:13,009 GATES: Female slaves, one. 666 00:29:13,009 --> 00:29:14,109 ACOSTA: Wow. 667 00:29:14,109 --> 00:29:16,643 GATES: Jim, your ancestor held a woman in slavery. 668 00:29:16,643 --> 00:29:20,376 Did you ever imagine that anyone in your family in Cuba 669 00:29:20,376 --> 00:29:22,176 had been a slave owner? 670 00:29:22,176 --> 00:29:24,709 ACOSTA: No idea. No idea. 671 00:29:24,709 --> 00:29:29,443 And um, I have to say, 672 00:29:29,443 --> 00:29:32,676 I, you know, I guess, I, I, I'm ashamed 673 00:29:32,676 --> 00:29:36,343 that one of my ancestors owned another human being. 674 00:29:36,343 --> 00:29:37,976 GATES: Mmm. 675 00:29:37,976 --> 00:29:40,176 It had never occurred to you that this was possible? 676 00:29:40,176 --> 00:29:43,809 ACOSTA: No. I mean, not... 677 00:29:43,809 --> 00:29:49,076 Growing up with parents who were working themselves to death 678 00:29:49,076 --> 00:29:51,176 to make ends meet for me, 679 00:29:51,176 --> 00:29:53,843 just to put food on the table, 680 00:29:53,843 --> 00:29:58,543 I wouldn't think in a million years that any 681 00:29:58,543 --> 00:30:02,609 ancestor of mine would own another human being. 682 00:30:03,709 --> 00:30:07,543 GATES: Historically, slavery played a huge role 683 00:30:07,543 --> 00:30:09,809 in Cuba's economy. 684 00:30:09,809 --> 00:30:14,643 Beginning in the mid-1500's, and continuing until the slave trade 685 00:30:14,643 --> 00:30:20,276 was abolished in 1867, the island imported about 686 00:30:20,276 --> 00:30:25,276 980,000 enslaved human beings, 687 00:30:25,276 --> 00:30:29,376 more than twice as many as the United States. 688 00:30:30,609 --> 00:30:33,343 And we learned that at least three other ancestors on 689 00:30:33,343 --> 00:30:35,243 Jim's father's side 690 00:30:35,243 --> 00:30:37,409 held no less than ten 691 00:30:37,409 --> 00:30:39,643 enslaved people between them. 692 00:30:40,109 --> 00:30:44,476 A discovery that compelled Jim to rethink this branch 693 00:30:44,476 --> 00:30:46,943 of his family tree. 694 00:30:47,243 --> 00:30:50,543 ACOSTA: Wow, I wish I had known about it sooner. 695 00:30:50,543 --> 00:30:55,809 Um, you know, to think that I made it all this way 696 00:30:55,809 --> 00:31:00,209 through life and not known that there was this... 697 00:31:02,943 --> 00:31:07,843 Unfortunate chapter in my ancestor's history, um, 698 00:31:07,843 --> 00:31:10,843 I guess, to some extent, I wish you hadn't told me that. 699 00:31:10,843 --> 00:31:12,443 GATES: Mm-hmm. 700 00:31:12,443 --> 00:31:16,776 ACOSTA: Because I, of who I am and my belief system and what 701 00:31:16,776 --> 00:31:19,243 I think and what I believe, 702 00:31:19,243 --> 00:31:22,743 um... 703 00:31:22,743 --> 00:31:27,843 and the way I think about our country, but why not me? 704 00:31:27,843 --> 00:31:29,143 GATES: Mm-hmm. 705 00:31:29,143 --> 00:31:32,609 ACOSTA: Why not, why, why can't that be my story? 706 00:31:34,176 --> 00:31:36,576 GATES: We'd already traced Van Jones' maternal roots 707 00:31:36,576 --> 00:31:39,709 back to the early 1800s, 708 00:31:40,176 --> 00:31:42,709 turning to the paternal side of his family tree, 709 00:31:42,709 --> 00:31:45,909 we weren't able to go as far into the past, 710 00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:50,109 but the stories we uncovered were no less powerful. 711 00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:56,776 Van's father, Willie Jones, was an Air Force veteran who 712 00:31:56,776 --> 00:31:59,143 served in the Vietnam war, 713 00:31:59,143 --> 00:32:03,843 and Van vividly recalls his extraordinary strength. 714 00:32:03,843 --> 00:32:07,543 But that strength was born of a deep pain. 715 00:32:08,376 --> 00:32:13,043 Willie lost his own father to cancer when he was a boy, 716 00:32:13,043 --> 00:32:16,476 an experience that molded him to his core. 717 00:32:17,709 --> 00:32:19,809 JONES: Apparently they were very close, 718 00:32:19,809 --> 00:32:22,709 as I understand it, my grandfather was a working guy, 719 00:32:22,709 --> 00:32:24,376 like a skilled laborer... 720 00:32:24,376 --> 00:32:25,609 GATES: Mm-hmm. 721 00:32:25,609 --> 00:32:28,076 JONES: And he would have my father come with him to do 722 00:32:28,076 --> 00:32:30,443 certain things and to be a part of certain things. 723 00:32:30,443 --> 00:32:33,809 He just loved my father. 724 00:32:33,809 --> 00:32:38,276 And then my father, um, 725 00:32:38,276 --> 00:32:42,009 says one day he went to talk to his dad 726 00:32:42,009 --> 00:32:45,609 and his dad said I'm not going to be here and you're going to 727 00:32:45,609 --> 00:32:46,943 have to be the man of the house. 728 00:32:46,943 --> 00:32:48,209 GATES: Mm-hmm. 729 00:32:48,209 --> 00:32:51,376 JONES: And very shortly after that, my grandfather died. 730 00:32:51,376 --> 00:32:52,743 GATES: Mmm. 731 00:32:52,743 --> 00:32:57,509 JONES: And, you know, my father, 732 00:32:57,509 --> 00:33:00,443 I think took really seriously what his father told him 733 00:33:00,443 --> 00:33:02,609 that he is the man of the house even though he was 734 00:33:02,609 --> 00:33:04,043 a little kid. 735 00:33:04,043 --> 00:33:08,009 And he has to do right by his family. 736 00:33:08,009 --> 00:33:10,076 He has to take care of the family. 737 00:33:10,076 --> 00:33:12,009 Even when he went to the military he had all his money 738 00:33:12,009 --> 00:33:13,843 sent home to his mother. 739 00:33:13,843 --> 00:33:17,643 He made his money by doing pool tricks and card tricks 740 00:33:17,643 --> 00:33:19,076 and stuff like that. 741 00:33:19,076 --> 00:33:23,809 Everything was about his mother, his brother, his sisters. 742 00:33:23,809 --> 00:33:26,309 Um, and uh... 743 00:33:26,309 --> 00:33:29,376 And even late in his life, uh, 744 00:33:29,376 --> 00:33:31,143 he would get choked up talking about his father. 745 00:33:31,143 --> 00:33:32,276 GATES: Mm-hmm. 746 00:33:32,276 --> 00:33:34,243 JONES: I don't think he ever got over it. 747 00:33:34,243 --> 00:33:37,409 I think he just tried to deal with it. 748 00:33:37,409 --> 00:33:40,809 GATES: This tragedy effectively severed Van's 749 00:33:40,809 --> 00:33:43,943 connection to his father's family. 750 00:33:44,676 --> 00:33:47,076 He believed that his grandfather had deep roots 751 00:33:47,076 --> 00:33:49,009 in Tennessee. 752 00:33:49,009 --> 00:33:51,776 But beyond that, this part of his ancestry 753 00:33:51,776 --> 00:33:54,643 was a blank slate. 754 00:33:54,643 --> 00:33:57,043 We set out to fill it in, starting with his 755 00:33:57,043 --> 00:34:00,076 grandfather's birth certificate. 756 00:34:00,076 --> 00:34:03,976 It lists his parents, Van's great-grandparents: 757 00:34:03,976 --> 00:34:08,176 Richard Jones and Alice Myers. 758 00:34:08,176 --> 00:34:09,643 JONES: Oh wow. 759 00:34:09,643 --> 00:34:10,709 GATES: Have you ever heard those names? 760 00:34:10,709 --> 00:34:11,943 JONES: Never. 761 00:34:11,943 --> 00:34:13,409 GATES: There's another person listed on that document. 762 00:34:13,409 --> 00:34:15,709 Could you please read the name of the midwife who delivered 763 00:34:15,709 --> 00:34:17,343 your grandfather Walter? 764 00:34:17,343 --> 00:34:19,209 JONES: Ella Meyers. 765 00:34:19,209 --> 00:34:20,276 GATES: You ever hear of Ella Meyers? 766 00:34:20,276 --> 00:34:21,309 JONES: No. 767 00:34:21,309 --> 00:34:23,043 GATES: Well, Ella was Alice's mother. 768 00:34:23,043 --> 00:34:24,509 JONES: Okay. 769 00:34:24,509 --> 00:34:28,443 GATES: Ella's maiden name was Green and she was born around 770 00:34:28,443 --> 00:34:33,443 March 15, 1864 in Mississippi, 771 00:34:33,443 --> 00:34:35,609 likely into slavery. 772 00:34:35,609 --> 00:34:38,043 Did you have any idea that you had roots in Mississippi on 773 00:34:38,043 --> 00:34:39,909 your father's side of your family tree? 774 00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:40,943 JONES: No. 775 00:34:40,943 --> 00:34:43,576 I thought we had been in Tennessee since 776 00:34:43,576 --> 00:34:44,776 we were enslaved. 777 00:34:44,776 --> 00:34:46,376 I thought that's where we were enslaved. 778 00:34:46,376 --> 00:34:47,509 GATES: Nope. 779 00:34:47,509 --> 00:34:49,576 JONES: That's crazy. 780 00:34:49,576 --> 00:34:52,709 GATES: Ella Green is Van's great-great-grandmother, 781 00:34:52,709 --> 00:34:57,843 and records suggest that Ella faced enormous challenges 782 00:34:57,843 --> 00:34:59,709 throughout her life. 783 00:34:59,709 --> 00:35:04,309 In the 1900 census for DeSoto County, Mississippi, 784 00:35:04,309 --> 00:35:08,809 we found her and her husband working as tenant farmers, 785 00:35:08,809 --> 00:35:12,509 meaning that they didn't own the land they worked on. 786 00:35:12,509 --> 00:35:18,209 What's more: by that time, Ella had already lost three children, 787 00:35:18,209 --> 00:35:21,076 and was raising six more. 788 00:35:21,076 --> 00:35:24,643 These facts did not surprise Van. 789 00:35:25,676 --> 00:35:29,343 JONES: You know, I knew that my dad's side of the family 790 00:35:29,343 --> 00:35:32,509 had a rougher road, a rougher path. 791 00:35:32,509 --> 00:35:37,243 And so um, it makes sense to me that uh, 792 00:35:37,243 --> 00:35:39,976 they would have, you know, been working on the land 793 00:35:39,976 --> 00:35:42,576 and having a bunch of kids trying to make sure that 794 00:35:42,576 --> 00:35:45,143 at least some of them survive and all that kind of stuff. 795 00:35:45,143 --> 00:35:48,709 You can see that strength in my dad's side of the family. 796 00:35:48,709 --> 00:35:50,509 You can see that determination in my dad's side of the family. 797 00:35:50,509 --> 00:35:51,943 GATES: Well, now you know where it comes from. 798 00:35:51,943 --> 00:35:53,643 JONES: Yeah. Absolutely. 799 00:35:53,643 --> 00:35:56,143 GATES: We wanted to trace Ella's line back further, 800 00:35:56,143 --> 00:35:58,376 but we hit a wall. 801 00:35:58,376 --> 00:36:01,676 The earliest record we could find for the Green family was 802 00:36:01,676 --> 00:36:05,276 the 1870 census for Mississippi, 803 00:36:05,276 --> 00:36:09,643 the very first census taken after emancipation, 804 00:36:09,643 --> 00:36:12,543 it lists Ella as a seven year old girl, 805 00:36:12,543 --> 00:36:16,976 living with her parents, Columbus and Julia Green. 806 00:36:18,976 --> 00:36:22,009 Unfortunately, and unlike for your maternal ancestors, 807 00:36:22,009 --> 00:36:23,643 this is where the paper trail 808 00:36:23,643 --> 00:36:26,009 for your paternal ancestors ends. 809 00:36:26,009 --> 00:36:27,443 JONES: Wow. 810 00:36:27,443 --> 00:36:28,843 GATES: What's it like to learn this? 811 00:36:28,843 --> 00:36:30,409 JONES: I mean, listen. 812 00:36:30,409 --> 00:36:32,476 I think most people who watch your show know that 813 00:36:32,476 --> 00:36:36,609 if you're Black, because we were considered property, 814 00:36:36,609 --> 00:36:39,376 you know, it's like trying to find the title of a car... 815 00:36:39,376 --> 00:36:40,476 GATES: Yeah. 816 00:36:40,476 --> 00:36:42,143 JONES: More than trying to find a human. 817 00:36:42,143 --> 00:36:45,343 That's, that's the... that's how we were treated. 818 00:36:45,343 --> 00:36:48,243 So, there is just like this big drop off. 819 00:36:48,243 --> 00:36:50,476 You know that your people are from Africa. 820 00:36:50,476 --> 00:36:51,743 You don't know from where. 821 00:36:51,743 --> 00:36:53,209 You don't know what language they spoke or what religion 822 00:36:53,209 --> 00:36:54,476 they had. 823 00:36:54,476 --> 00:36:55,543 You don't know how they got here. 824 00:36:55,543 --> 00:36:56,809 You don't know where they landed. 825 00:36:56,809 --> 00:36:59,109 All you know is that somehow you wake up in America where 826 00:36:59,109 --> 00:37:03,176 you know, you have a family history that has been 827 00:37:03,176 --> 00:37:07,543 obliterated and a present that is very, very challenging 828 00:37:07,543 --> 00:37:09,376 and a future that is unknown, 829 00:37:09,376 --> 00:37:11,676 and you have to figure it out from there. 830 00:37:11,676 --> 00:37:14,243 And, you know, it's hard to have the fruit 831 00:37:14,243 --> 00:37:15,576 when you don't have the root. 832 00:37:15,576 --> 00:37:16,843 GATES: That's true. 833 00:37:16,843 --> 00:37:19,376 JONES: You know, when you don't know where you're from. 834 00:37:19,376 --> 00:37:23,009 And I know people who are from more European backgrounds. 835 00:37:23,009 --> 00:37:26,176 Oh, you know, I'm... you know my family came over here, 836 00:37:26,176 --> 00:37:28,943 like my grandparents came and it's a little bit fuzzy 837 00:37:28,943 --> 00:37:32,609 but it's fuzzy because y'all just didn't pay attention. 838 00:37:32,609 --> 00:37:35,043 It's not fuzzy because somebody stole you and 839 00:37:35,043 --> 00:37:36,376 put you in a different context... 840 00:37:36,376 --> 00:37:37,643 GATES: Right. 841 00:37:37,643 --> 00:37:39,143 JONES: Um, and mistreated you for a couple of centuries. 842 00:37:39,143 --> 00:37:42,476 So, when something is lost, 843 00:37:42,476 --> 00:37:45,176 you feel different about it than when it's stolen. 844 00:37:45,176 --> 00:37:48,309 When your history, family history is lost 845 00:37:48,309 --> 00:37:49,976 that's different than when it's stolen. 846 00:37:49,976 --> 00:37:51,843 If you lose your watch you feel differently about it than 847 00:37:51,843 --> 00:37:53,976 if somebody steals it. 848 00:37:54,243 --> 00:37:56,309 GATES: Though we'd exhausted the paper trail, 849 00:37:56,309 --> 00:37:59,576 we still had one more detail to share 850 00:37:59,576 --> 00:38:02,643 regarding Van's father's family. 851 00:38:02,643 --> 00:38:07,509 It turns out that Van is not the only famous descendant of 852 00:38:07,509 --> 00:38:10,276 Columbus and Julia Green. 853 00:38:10,776 --> 00:38:13,709 We actually had a guest in an earlier season of our series 854 00:38:13,709 --> 00:38:16,876 who connects to them as well. 855 00:38:17,509 --> 00:38:18,643 JONES: Who? 856 00:38:18,643 --> 00:38:21,143 GATES: You would never guess in a million years. 857 00:38:21,143 --> 00:38:23,776 JONES: I probably would not guess in a million years. 858 00:38:23,776 --> 00:38:29,709 I think I, I think I know most people in my family, 859 00:38:29,709 --> 00:38:32,443 and I don't think any of them have been on your show. 860 00:38:32,443 --> 00:38:35,143 GATES: Okay. One of them has. 861 00:38:35,143 --> 00:38:36,776 You just didn't know he was in your family. 862 00:38:36,776 --> 00:38:38,076 JONES: Who is it? 863 00:38:38,076 --> 00:38:40,609 GATES: Please turn the page. 864 00:38:42,576 --> 00:38:44,276 JONES: What? 865 00:38:44,276 --> 00:38:47,176 I, I know this brother. 866 00:38:47,176 --> 00:38:49,776 That is crazy. 867 00:38:49,776 --> 00:38:52,409 GATES: Your cousin is Emmy and Golden Globe Award winning 868 00:38:52,409 --> 00:38:54,709 actor Sterling K. Brown. 869 00:38:54,709 --> 00:38:56,809 JONES: That's nuts. 870 00:38:56,809 --> 00:38:58,343 We're cousins? 871 00:38:58,343 --> 00:39:00,809 GATES: You are cousins. You are definitely cousins. 872 00:39:00,809 --> 00:39:02,643 JONES: I want some money! 873 00:39:02,643 --> 00:39:04,509 (laughing) 874 00:39:04,509 --> 00:39:07,409 GATES: Van and Sterling are fourth cousins, 875 00:39:07,409 --> 00:39:11,409 and this discovery was especially exciting to us 876 00:39:11,409 --> 00:39:16,276 because we initially made the connection using DNA, 877 00:39:16,276 --> 00:39:17,709 and then we confirmed it 878 00:39:17,709 --> 00:39:22,343 with documents that show exactly how the two men are related. 879 00:39:23,243 --> 00:39:25,976 JONES: So Columbus Green and Julia Green... 880 00:39:25,976 --> 00:39:27,443 GATES: Are your third-great-grandparents. 881 00:39:27,443 --> 00:39:28,743 JONES: Right. 882 00:39:28,743 --> 00:39:31,543 And they had a daughter named Ella and a son named Robert. 883 00:39:31,543 --> 00:39:32,743 GATES: Yeah. 884 00:39:32,743 --> 00:39:34,109 JONES: And from there you get, 885 00:39:34,109 --> 00:39:36,243 from Ella you get Van Jones and 886 00:39:36,243 --> 00:39:38,309 from Robert you get Sterling K. Brown. 887 00:39:38,309 --> 00:39:39,509 GATES: Isn't that cool? 888 00:39:39,509 --> 00:39:40,576 JONES: That's unbelievable. 889 00:39:40,576 --> 00:39:41,709 GATES: Unbelievable. 890 00:39:41,709 --> 00:39:42,909 JONES: That's crazy. 891 00:39:42,909 --> 00:39:45,909 Well, I don't even know what to say. 892 00:39:45,909 --> 00:39:49,576 I mean literally the last time I saw Sterling K. Brown 893 00:39:49,576 --> 00:39:51,376 we were at a... 894 00:39:51,376 --> 00:39:53,109 I think a BETAward show. 895 00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:55,543 Walked over to him, shook hands. 896 00:39:55,543 --> 00:39:57,143 He knows my work. I knew his work. 897 00:39:57,143 --> 00:39:58,309 We were texting for a while. 898 00:39:58,309 --> 00:39:59,809 I mean I literally know this guy. 899 00:39:59,809 --> 00:40:00,976 GATES: Isn't that cool? 900 00:40:00,976 --> 00:40:03,809 JONES: That's so crazy. That's amazing. 901 00:40:04,243 --> 00:40:06,109 GATES: Turning back to Jim Acosta, 902 00:40:06,109 --> 00:40:09,576 we moved from his father's native Cuba 903 00:40:09,576 --> 00:40:12,509 to a place that was far more familiar. 904 00:40:12,509 --> 00:40:16,876 Fairfax, Virginia where Jim was raised by his single mother, 905 00:40:16,876 --> 00:40:19,409 Barbara Ellen Rice, 906 00:40:19,409 --> 00:40:21,209 a woman whose character 907 00:40:21,209 --> 00:40:24,743 left an indelible mark on her son. 908 00:40:24,743 --> 00:40:28,609 ACOSTA: My mom raised me with an iron fist and, uh, 909 00:40:28,609 --> 00:40:30,343 you know, she would say, uh, 910 00:40:30,343 --> 00:40:32,543 "If you ever smoke a cigarette, if I ever catch you 911 00:40:32,543 --> 00:40:34,309 smoking a cigarette, I'll make you eat the whole pack." 912 00:40:34,309 --> 00:40:35,709 You know? Uh... 913 00:40:35,709 --> 00:40:37,843 "If you have an earring in your ear, I'm going to rip it out." 914 00:40:37,843 --> 00:40:39,843 You know? "I want your hair high and tight." 915 00:40:39,843 --> 00:40:40,909 GATES: I love your mom. 916 00:40:40,909 --> 00:40:42,209 ACOSTA: You know, that was how she raised me. 917 00:40:42,209 --> 00:40:46,576 She, she was raising a boy on her own to become a man and 918 00:40:46,576 --> 00:40:48,776 she wanted him to be tough. 919 00:40:48,776 --> 00:40:49,843 GATES: Mm-hmm. 920 00:40:49,843 --> 00:40:52,543 ACOSTA: So, she was tough. 921 00:40:52,543 --> 00:40:56,809 GATES: Barbara's toughness was almost certainly inherited, 922 00:40:56,809 --> 00:41:00,309 but Jim knew little about its source because his mother 923 00:41:00,309 --> 00:41:03,009 rarely spoke about her roots. 924 00:41:03,009 --> 00:41:06,843 We set out to change that, starting with the passenger list 925 00:41:06,843 --> 00:41:10,709 of a ship that arrived in New York City from 926 00:41:10,709 --> 00:41:15,209 Queenstown, Ireland in August of 1905. 927 00:41:16,243 --> 00:41:19,276 Onboard, Jim's great-grandmother, 928 00:41:19,276 --> 00:41:22,076 a very determined young woman. 929 00:41:23,309 --> 00:41:25,109 ACOSTA: Annie Snee, housekeeper, 930 00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:27,176 nationality, Ireland. 931 00:41:27,176 --> 00:41:30,476 Last residence, Coolaney?" 932 00:41:30,476 --> 00:41:31,576 GATES: Coolaney. 933 00:41:31,576 --> 00:41:33,743 ACOSTA: "Coolaney. Final destination, Jersey City. 934 00:41:33,743 --> 00:41:35,843 Passage paid by self." 935 00:41:35,843 --> 00:41:37,643 GATES: Your great-grandmother was just 20. 936 00:41:37,643 --> 00:41:40,843 She's listed as a housekeeper, and she has no money. 937 00:41:40,843 --> 00:41:42,743 You could see a photo of the ship. 938 00:41:42,743 --> 00:41:45,376 ACOSTA: Wow. This is it right here. 939 00:41:45,376 --> 00:41:47,376 GATES: How does it make you feel to see that? 940 00:41:47,376 --> 00:41:48,809 ACOSTA: Makes me proud. 941 00:41:48,809 --> 00:41:49,943 GATES: Mm-hmm. 942 00:41:49,943 --> 00:41:52,609 ACOSTA: Makes me proud. It's beautiful. 943 00:41:52,609 --> 00:41:55,943 GATES: This record shows that Jim's great-grandmother came 944 00:41:55,943 --> 00:41:59,143 from an Irish village called Coolaney... 945 00:41:59,143 --> 00:42:03,143 At the time, upward mobility for young women in rural 946 00:42:03,143 --> 00:42:06,443 Ireland was virtually non-existent, and Annie 947 00:42:06,443 --> 00:42:10,476 likely immigrated to America in search of opportunities 948 00:42:10,476 --> 00:42:13,176 she could never have found at home. 949 00:42:13,176 --> 00:42:16,176 She got more than she bargained for. 950 00:42:16,176 --> 00:42:19,109 We found her in the 1910 census for New York, 951 00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:23,343 working as a servant in what would be one the most glamorous 952 00:42:23,343 --> 00:42:28,243 buildings in Manhattan well into the 1970s. 953 00:42:29,209 --> 00:42:32,776 ACOSTA: "Annie Snee, servant, 26, private family." 954 00:42:32,776 --> 00:42:35,876 GATES: There's Annie working as a live-in servant for a 955 00:42:35,876 --> 00:42:38,876 woman named Josephine Tailor, and you can see a photo of the 956 00:42:38,876 --> 00:42:41,309 apartment building in which she was living on the left. 957 00:42:41,309 --> 00:42:43,076 Do you happen to recognize that building? 958 00:42:43,076 --> 00:42:45,109 ACOSTA: I was gonna say, that looks like a famous building. 959 00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:47,143 Is that the Dakota or? 960 00:42:47,143 --> 00:42:48,176 GATES: That's the Dakota, baby. 961 00:42:48,176 --> 00:42:49,443 ACOSTA: That is the Dakota, baby. 962 00:42:49,443 --> 00:42:51,676 GATES: Your great grandmother was living in the Dakota, 963 00:42:51,676 --> 00:42:54,076 the famous apartment building that was home to Judy Garland, 964 00:42:54,076 --> 00:42:56,643 Lauren Bacall, and John Lennon. 965 00:42:56,643 --> 00:42:58,009 ACOSTA: John Lennon. 966 00:42:58,009 --> 00:42:59,776 GATES: Uh, what's it like to learn that? 967 00:42:59,776 --> 00:43:02,243 ACOSTA: That is, that's wild. 968 00:43:02,243 --> 00:43:03,509 That is, 'cause I... 969 00:43:03,509 --> 00:43:04,709 As soon as I saw that building, I thought, 970 00:43:04,709 --> 00:43:06,743 "Why is there a picture of the Dakota in here?" 971 00:43:06,743 --> 00:43:09,209 'Cause I, as somebody who's lived in New York and 972 00:43:09,209 --> 00:43:11,509 obviously, John Lennon and everything else, I, I 973 00:43:11,509 --> 00:43:12,809 recognized that building. 974 00:43:12,809 --> 00:43:14,076 GATES: Yeah. 975 00:43:14,076 --> 00:43:16,043 ACOSTA: Fascinating. 976 00:43:16,043 --> 00:43:19,576 GATES: Annie found herself in New York City at the tail end 977 00:43:19,576 --> 00:43:22,843 of the Gilded Age, and she made the most of it, 978 00:43:22,843 --> 00:43:26,109 she would soon marry Jim's great-grandfather, 979 00:43:26,109 --> 00:43:29,643 a chauffeur named Herbert Rice, 980 00:43:29,643 --> 00:43:32,676 and the couple would end up raising five children 981 00:43:32,676 --> 00:43:37,109 in a home of their own on the upper east side of Manhattan. 982 00:43:38,076 --> 00:43:41,843 But as we looked closely at the records that Annie left behind, 983 00:43:41,843 --> 00:43:45,309 we found something back in Ireland that suggests 984 00:43:45,309 --> 00:43:48,943 her journey was more complex than we'd imagined. 985 00:43:51,009 --> 00:43:55,909 This is a record from Coolaney, um, dated March 9th, 1911 986 00:43:55,909 --> 00:43:58,243 about one year after the census on the last page. 987 00:43:58,243 --> 00:44:00,343 Would you please read the transcription? 988 00:44:00,343 --> 00:44:02,643 ACOSTA: Uh, "Patrick Joseph Rice, 989 00:44:02,643 --> 00:44:05,243 date and place of birth: March 9th, 1911, 990 00:44:05,243 --> 00:44:07,343 uh, from Creevaun." 991 00:44:07,343 --> 00:44:08,409 GATES: Mm-hmm. 992 00:44:08,409 --> 00:44:10,243 ACOSTA: "Mother: Anne Rice, formally Schnee. 993 00:44:10,243 --> 00:44:12,143 Father: Herbert Rice. 994 00:44:12,143 --> 00:44:14,976 Dwelling place of, uh, father: New York." 995 00:44:14,976 --> 00:44:17,609 GATES: Just one year after Annie was recorded on the 996 00:44:17,609 --> 00:44:20,409 1910 US census, she gave birth to a son, 997 00:44:20,409 --> 00:44:23,509 your grandfather's brother but back in Ireland. 998 00:44:23,509 --> 00:44:25,143 ACOSTA: Wow. 999 00:44:25,143 --> 00:44:27,976 GATES: And she listed her name as "Anne Rice," 1000 00:44:27,976 --> 00:44:30,943 your great grandfather Herbert's last name. 1001 00:44:30,943 --> 00:44:34,076 So, why do you think Annie returned to Ireland 1002 00:44:34,076 --> 00:44:35,609 to give birth? 1003 00:44:35,609 --> 00:44:37,109 Any theories? 1004 00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:40,709 ACOSTA: No, I have no idea. That is strange. 1005 00:44:40,709 --> 00:44:41,743 GATES: Curious, isn't it? 1006 00:44:41,743 --> 00:44:42,776 ACOSTA: Yeah, curious. 1007 00:44:42,776 --> 00:44:43,809 GATES: Oh, let's find out. 1008 00:44:43,809 --> 00:44:44,876 ACOSTA: Let's find out. 1009 00:44:44,876 --> 00:44:45,909 GATES: Will you please turn the page? 1010 00:44:45,909 --> 00:44:46,976 ACOSTA: Okay. 1011 00:44:46,976 --> 00:44:48,043 GATES: Jim, this is a record from Mount Vernon, 1012 00:44:48,043 --> 00:44:49,209 West Chester, New York. 1013 00:44:49,209 --> 00:44:51,576 It's dated August 26th, 1911, 1014 00:44:51,576 --> 00:44:54,109 five months after the record on the last page. 1015 00:44:54,109 --> 00:44:57,476 Would you please read the transcription? 1016 00:44:57,476 --> 00:44:59,409 ACOSTA: "Affidavit for license to marry. 1017 00:44:59,409 --> 00:45:01,876 Groom: Herbert Rice, 28, chauffeur. 1018 00:45:01,876 --> 00:45:05,009 Bride: Annie Schnee, uh, 26, waitress." 1019 00:45:05,009 --> 00:45:07,543 GATES: She's applying for the right to marriage five months 1020 00:45:07,543 --> 00:45:09,143 after the baby was born. 1021 00:45:09,143 --> 00:45:10,176 ACOSTA: Ah. 1022 00:45:10,176 --> 00:45:11,609 GATES: So, Jim, you know what this means. 1023 00:45:11,609 --> 00:45:12,676 ACOSTA: Yeah. 1024 00:45:12,676 --> 00:45:14,343 GATES: Her son, your great uncle Patrick, 1025 00:45:14,343 --> 00:45:15,676 was born out of wedlock. 1026 00:45:15,676 --> 00:45:16,676 ACOSTA: Yeah. 1027 00:45:16,676 --> 00:45:17,809 GATES: And she went back there. 1028 00:45:17,809 --> 00:45:19,509 So nobody would know. 1029 00:45:19,509 --> 00:45:20,509 ACOSTA: Oh, wow. 1030 00:45:20,509 --> 00:45:22,009 GATES: To be discreet. 1031 00:45:22,009 --> 00:45:24,209 Annie listed Herbert as her husband on his birth certificate 1032 00:45:24,209 --> 00:45:26,376 in Ireland, but they weren't married. 1033 00:45:26,376 --> 00:45:28,809 ACOSTA: I see. 1034 00:45:28,809 --> 00:45:31,843 GATES: So, she was making it all look right. 1035 00:45:31,843 --> 00:45:34,876 ACOSTA: Yeah. So interesting. 1036 00:45:36,343 --> 00:45:38,443 GATES: Turning from Annie to her father, 1037 00:45:38,443 --> 00:45:40,909 a man named Daniel Snee, 1038 00:45:40,909 --> 00:45:44,109 we were able to add another chapter to this story. 1039 00:45:44,843 --> 00:45:48,609 Daniel is Jim's great-great-grandfather. 1040 00:45:48,609 --> 00:45:53,476 He was born in County Sligo sometime around 1840. 1041 00:45:54,543 --> 00:45:59,943 His father, James Snee, was a farmer in that same county, 1042 00:45:59,943 --> 00:46:04,376 meaning that when Daniel was a child, he and his family 1043 00:46:04,376 --> 00:46:06,809 endured a terrifying ordeal. 1044 00:46:07,309 --> 00:46:12,176 In 1845, Ireland's potato crop began to fail, 1045 00:46:12,176 --> 00:46:14,876 precipitating one of the worst famines 1046 00:46:14,876 --> 00:46:18,276 the world has ever known. 1047 00:46:19,243 --> 00:46:23,243 More than one million Irish people died either from 1048 00:46:23,243 --> 00:46:25,309 starvation or from disease. 1049 00:46:25,309 --> 00:46:26,509 ACOSTA: Mm-hmm. 1050 00:46:26,509 --> 00:46:28,176 GATES: In County Sligo alone, nearly one-third of the 1051 00:46:28,176 --> 00:46:32,909 population vanished in the decade between 1841 and 1851. 1052 00:46:32,909 --> 00:46:34,609 A third. 1053 00:46:34,609 --> 00:46:35,943 ACOSTA: Wow. 1054 00:46:35,943 --> 00:46:37,576 GATES: So how do you think your ancestors managed? 1055 00:46:37,576 --> 00:46:39,276 They almost certainly saw friends, neighbors, 1056 00:46:39,276 --> 00:46:41,176 and relatives die. 1057 00:46:41,176 --> 00:46:44,809 ACOSTA: Uh, it, it would seem to me that it was pretty 1058 00:46:44,809 --> 00:46:49,543 ingrained in them, um, suffering, and suffering that 1059 00:46:49,543 --> 00:46:51,743 was going on during this time period. 1060 00:46:51,743 --> 00:46:54,843 I, I would imagine it was a pretty searing experience. 1061 00:46:54,843 --> 00:46:57,443 GATES: Mm-hmm. Oh, it's unimaginable. 1062 00:46:57,443 --> 00:46:58,476 ACOSTA: Yeah. 1063 00:46:58,476 --> 00:46:59,543 GATES: I mean, one-third? 1064 00:46:59,543 --> 00:47:00,676 ACOSTA: Yeah. 1065 00:47:00,676 --> 00:47:01,709 GATES: To imagine one-third of your... 1066 00:47:01,709 --> 00:47:02,776 ACOSTA: People starving to death. 1067 00:47:02,776 --> 00:47:04,243 GATES: Yeah. Just disappearing in a decade. 1068 00:47:04,243 --> 00:47:05,743 ACOSTA: And it's heartbreaking. 1069 00:47:05,743 --> 00:47:07,043 GATES: Mm-hmm. 1070 00:47:07,043 --> 00:47:11,743 ACOSTA: It's heartbreaking to think that my ancestors had 1071 00:47:11,743 --> 00:47:14,109 something to do with that. 1072 00:47:14,743 --> 00:47:18,376 GATES: The famine devastated Ireland for generations, 1073 00:47:18,376 --> 00:47:22,243 creating poverty that likely contributed to Annie Snee's 1074 00:47:22,243 --> 00:47:25,476 decision to leave her home and family 1075 00:47:25,476 --> 00:47:28,743 for a new start in America. 1076 00:47:29,009 --> 00:47:31,509 But as we surveyed Jim's mother's roots, 1077 00:47:31,509 --> 00:47:34,576 we discovered that Annie wasn't the only member of her family 1078 00:47:34,576 --> 00:47:37,776 to make such a bold decision. 1079 00:47:37,776 --> 00:47:42,143 Jim has a half-dozen ancestors from Ireland, England, 1080 00:47:42,143 --> 00:47:44,909 and even what is now the Czech Republic, 1081 00:47:44,909 --> 00:47:48,776 who boarded ships and passed through Ellis Island 1082 00:47:48,776 --> 00:47:52,209 in search of a better life. 1083 00:47:52,209 --> 00:47:54,509 Seeing their journeys laid out, 1084 00:47:54,509 --> 00:47:59,343 renewed Jim's faith in his own work. 1085 00:47:59,343 --> 00:48:02,309 ACOSTA: People know who I am because I stood up to Trump. 1086 00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:05,343 When it came to immigrants and I can't tell ya how many times 1087 00:48:05,343 --> 00:48:07,876 I run into people from all walks of life, 1088 00:48:07,876 --> 00:48:10,776 all around the world, who are grateful for that. 1089 00:48:10,776 --> 00:48:16,076 And I did it, not knowing the full history. 1090 00:48:16,643 --> 00:48:17,743 GATES: Mm-hmm. 1091 00:48:17,743 --> 00:48:19,376 ACOSTA: Which you've given to me, 1092 00:48:19,376 --> 00:48:21,576 but knowing a little bit about myself, you know, 1093 00:48:21,576 --> 00:48:22,976 as a human being, 1094 00:48:22,976 --> 00:48:27,243 that I came from this immigrant experience and I was, you know, 1095 00:48:27,243 --> 00:48:30,109 uh, a Cuban-American, an Irish-American... 1096 00:48:30,109 --> 00:48:31,976 and a little bit of Czech. 1097 00:48:31,976 --> 00:48:37,276 Um, and all of these forces came together to make who I am. 1098 00:48:37,276 --> 00:48:38,676 GATES: Indeed. 1099 00:48:38,676 --> 00:48:40,943 ACOSTA: And so how can I sit here silently as somebody is 1100 00:48:40,943 --> 00:48:44,743 denigrating that entire experience. 1101 00:48:44,743 --> 00:48:46,743 When I know full well, being an educated person... 1102 00:48:46,743 --> 00:48:48,076 GATES: Mm-hmm. 1103 00:48:48,076 --> 00:48:50,443 ACOSTA: That is very much part of the fabric of this country. 1104 00:48:50,443 --> 00:48:52,376 GATES: Will you ever look at the Statue of Liberty in the 1105 00:48:52,376 --> 00:48:53,476 same way again? 1106 00:48:53,476 --> 00:48:55,543 ACOSTA: Um, not, no way. 1107 00:48:55,543 --> 00:48:56,843 No way. 1108 00:48:56,843 --> 00:48:58,876 I was always fond of Lady Liberty, 1109 00:48:58,876 --> 00:49:01,209 but now there is a special bond, a special connection. 1110 00:49:01,209 --> 00:49:02,243 GATES: Yeah. 1111 00:49:02,243 --> 00:49:03,876 ACOSTA: No question about it. 1112 00:49:03,876 --> 00:49:07,043 GATES: The paper trail had run out for Jim and Van. 1113 00:49:07,043 --> 00:49:10,409 It was time to unfurl their full family trees... 1114 00:49:10,409 --> 00:49:11,976 ACOSTA: Oh, my goodness. 1115 00:49:11,976 --> 00:49:14,443 GATES: Now filled with ancestors whose names 1116 00:49:14,443 --> 00:49:16,409 they'd never heard before... 1117 00:49:16,409 --> 00:49:18,209 JONES: Oh, wow! 1118 00:49:18,209 --> 00:49:21,076 GATES: For each, it was a moment of awe... 1119 00:49:21,076 --> 00:49:25,976 A chance to see how their own lives had been shaped 1120 00:49:25,976 --> 00:49:29,709 by the women and men who came before them. 1121 00:49:31,809 --> 00:49:33,209 JONES: I feel like I owe them a lot. 1122 00:49:33,209 --> 00:49:34,643 GATES: Mm-hmm. 1123 00:49:34,643 --> 00:49:36,376 JONES: I feel like I owe them a lot. 1124 00:49:36,376 --> 00:49:39,043 I feel like I owe, you know, people, you die twice. 1125 00:49:39,043 --> 00:49:42,809 You die when your body dies, 1126 00:49:42,809 --> 00:49:45,409 and then you die the last time somebody says your name. 1127 00:49:45,409 --> 00:49:46,843 GATES: That's right. 1128 00:49:46,843 --> 00:49:51,009 JONES: So, I'm going to make sure that I keep them alive. 1129 00:49:51,509 --> 00:49:54,576 GATES: Nobody has to do this research again. 1130 00:49:58,843 --> 00:50:00,676 (sniffle) 1131 00:50:00,676 --> 00:50:03,976 ACOSTA: Thank you. Thank you. 1132 00:50:11,476 --> 00:50:14,143 They went through a lot to get here. 1133 00:50:15,609 --> 00:50:18,876 GATES: My time with my guests was nearing its end, 1134 00:50:18,876 --> 00:50:21,443 but I had a final question for each. 1135 00:50:21,443 --> 00:50:24,176 I wanted to know how learning the stories of their ancestors 1136 00:50:24,176 --> 00:50:26,976 had affected the way they thought of themselves 1137 00:50:26,976 --> 00:50:28,776 as Americans. 1138 00:50:28,776 --> 00:50:33,576 For Van, the experience had confirmed his deepest beliefs. 1139 00:50:34,776 --> 00:50:37,943 JONES: I've been telling people that this is our country. 1140 00:50:37,943 --> 00:50:40,443 I don't understand what people are talking about. 1141 00:50:40,443 --> 00:50:42,509 My family's been here for... 1142 00:50:42,509 --> 00:50:44,609 I can document now at least seven generations. 1143 00:50:44,609 --> 00:50:45,743 GATES: Right. 1144 00:50:45,743 --> 00:50:47,609 JONES: I've got folks who just got off the boat. 1145 00:50:47,609 --> 00:50:49,509 My grandparents came here. 1146 00:50:49,509 --> 00:50:50,776 My parents came here. 1147 00:50:50,776 --> 00:50:55,909 Great, welcome, but I've always felt that African Americans 1148 00:50:55,909 --> 00:50:59,676 should be much more, um, 1149 00:50:59,676 --> 00:51:02,276 proud and make a bolder claim 1150 00:51:02,276 --> 00:51:04,276 that this is our country. 1151 00:51:04,276 --> 00:51:05,909 Um, if, you know... 1152 00:51:05,909 --> 00:51:07,209 The Native Americans got a first claim. 1153 00:51:07,209 --> 00:51:09,543 We got second because there's very few families that have 1154 00:51:09,543 --> 00:51:10,909 been here as long as mine. 1155 00:51:10,909 --> 00:51:12,476 GATES: That's true. 1156 00:51:12,476 --> 00:51:14,209 No Ellis Island for your ancestors. 1157 00:51:14,209 --> 00:51:15,343 JONES: Absolutely. 1158 00:51:16,476 --> 00:51:19,943 GATES: Unlike Van, Jim's family tree is filled with 1159 00:51:19,943 --> 00:51:23,409 recent immigrants, and this compelled him to see a 1160 00:51:23,409 --> 00:51:26,209 larger lesson for our country. 1161 00:51:26,209 --> 00:51:29,209 ACOSTA: If we're gonna make it as a society, 1162 00:51:29,209 --> 00:51:32,909 and that the verdict is not exactly in yet. 1163 00:51:32,909 --> 00:51:34,409 GATES: Right, right. 1164 00:51:34,409 --> 00:51:36,843 ACOSTA: We are gonna have to treat each other 1165 00:51:36,843 --> 00:51:38,576 like brothers, like sisters. 1166 00:51:38,576 --> 00:51:39,843 GATES: Mm-hmm. 1167 00:51:39,843 --> 00:51:43,509 ACOSTA: And what this tells me is that you have no idea 1168 00:51:43,509 --> 00:51:45,443 who those brothers and sisters are. 1169 00:51:45,443 --> 00:51:46,643 GATES: It's true. 1170 00:51:46,643 --> 00:51:47,943 ACOSTA: And where they come from. 1171 00:51:47,943 --> 00:51:49,109 GATES: Right. 1172 00:51:49,109 --> 00:51:50,509 ACOSTA: And what life experiences they come from. 1173 00:51:50,509 --> 00:51:52,376 So, it behooves you... 1174 00:51:52,376 --> 00:51:53,509 GATES: Right. 1175 00:51:53,509 --> 00:51:55,576 ACOSTA: To be a good human being to those folks. 1176 00:51:55,576 --> 00:51:58,076 GATES: That's the end of our journey with Jim Acosta 1177 00:51:58,076 --> 00:52:00,176 and Van Jones. 1178 00:52:00,176 --> 00:52:01,743 join me next time 1179 00:52:01,743 --> 00:52:03,009 when we unlock 1180 00:52:03,009 --> 00:52:04,176 the secrets of the past 1181 00:52:04,176 --> 00:52:05,543 for new guests 1182 00:52:05,543 --> 00:52:07,643 on another episode of 1183 00:52:07,643 --> 00:52:09,543 Finding Your Roots.