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GATES: I'm
Henry Louis Gates, Jr.

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Welcome to
Finding Your Roots.

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In this episode,
we'll meet actors

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Julia Roberts and Edward Norton.

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Two stars who are about to be
recast by their family trees.

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ROBERTS: But, oh, wait,
but am I not a Roberts?

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GATES: Well, let's
see what we found.

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ROBERTS: This was a very
unexpected turn, Doctor.

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(laughs).

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NORTON: It's wild.

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These are consequential,
these are consequential things.

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GATES: To uncover their roots,
we've used every tool available.

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Genealogists combed
through the paper trail

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their ancestors left behind,

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while DNA experts
utilized the latest advances in

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genetic analysis to reveal
secrets hundreds of years old.

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And we've compiled
everything into a book of life.

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A record of all
of our discoveries.

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ROBERTS: This has
got some heft to it.

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GATES: What do
you think of that?

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Have you ever seen that before?

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NORTON: No! God, no.

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GATES: And a window
into the hidden past.

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(gasps).

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ROBERTS: Oh. It's so good.

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Oh. That's so good.

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(laughs).

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ROBERTS: Oh my gosh,
I cannot believe this.

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NORTON: It just makes you
realize what a, what a small,

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you know, piece of the
whole human story you are.

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ROBERTS: Is my, is my
head on straight still?

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Am I facing you?

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(laughter)

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GATES: My guests have
spent decades in the limelight,

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followed by
cameras at every turn.

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In this episode, we're going to
look at something those cameras

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have missed introducing Julia
and Edward to the ancestors who

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fill the distant branches
of their family trees,

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forever altering how
they see themselves.

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(theme music playing).

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♪ ♪

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MAN: Julia, Julia, Julia! Julia!

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GATES: Julia Roberts
needs no introduction.

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The beloved star with
the iconic smile has been

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a Hollywood powerhouse
for more than three decades.

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Indeed, it's almost
impossible to imagine

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Hollywood without her.

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But Julia's success was
by no means pre-ordained.

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She grew up in Smyrna, Georgia,

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a suburb of Atlanta.

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Her parents met when they
were both aspiring actors.

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And though their
marriage didn't last,

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their ambitions did, and were
passed down to their children.

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After high school,
Julia set off for New York,

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with her sights on the stage.

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The transition
proved challenging,

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but her mother pushed her on.

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ROBERTS: My mom felt that
moving was probably a good idea,

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and I know that once I moved and
got a taste of the big city life

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and was terrified and
asked her if I could come home,

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she said no.

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(laughter).

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GATES: You really
wanted to go back?

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ROBERTS: Yes. I was
really afraid all the time.

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You know, I was 17 years old and
I came from such a small place.

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It was really intimidating.

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I mean, I think about
it now, if my daughter,

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who will be 17 next month.

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If she moved to New York City?

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GATES: No way.

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ROBERTS: I, I'd be in the
apartment next door, you know?

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I mean, that's my mother
putting her love for me,

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ahead of her wanting
me close, because I'm sure she,

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in the same way that I
want to keep my daughter close,

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it's the right
love that says, no,

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you need to stay where
you are and do the work.

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GATES: Julia would, of course,

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remain in New York.

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But success did
not come immediately.

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She started out selling
sneakers in a shoe store,

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and spent years just trying
to break into the business.

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Along the way, she learned
a lesson that would serve

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her well, both
on and off camera.

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ROBERTS: My husband
and I the other day,

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we were in the
kitchen and we, uh,

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I had the TV on
in the, in the kitchen,

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and I was doing dishes,
and he came in and, and,

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and the news was over
and a soap opera came on,

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and it happened to be the
soap opera that I used to

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watch as a young girl
with my mom and my sister,

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and I haven't
seen it in so long,

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and some of the
same people are on it.

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GATES: Huh.

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ROBERTS: And I said
to my husband, you know,

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there was a time when
I moved to New York that

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I auditioned for a
few soap operas and

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I auditioned for commercials,

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I auditioned for
all kinds of TV shows,

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I didn't get any of them.

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Thank goodness.

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I would have not found this

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if I had found a
great soap opera job

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when I was 18 years old.

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GATES: Mm-hmm. You'd still
be on
Search for Tomorrow 
or...

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ROBERTS: I would be.
GATES: Yeah.

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ROBERTS: And so, it's
amazing the things that

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don't work out for you.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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ROBERTS: Um, because
yeah, there was a time,

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what kind of job
was I looking for?

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One that would pay me.

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GATES: Right.
ROBERTS: So I could pay my rent.

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GATES: Right.

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ROBERTS: And I'm really glad
that the ones that I did find,

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that found me in the
beginning of my career,

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were ones that still
aligned with my sense as

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an actor in some way.

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GATES: And, and,
and fostered growth.

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ROBERTS: Yes.

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MAN: Excuse me, um, do you play?

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GATES: For Julia, "Growth," is
an especially meaningful term.

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ROBERTS: Sure.

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(doorbell rings)

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What is that?

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GATES: Over the years,
she's moved effortlessly from

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blockbuster romantic comedies to
darker and more dramatic films,

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ROBERTS: First of all,
since the demur we have

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more than 400 plaintiffs in.

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Let's be honest, we all
know there more out there.

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GATES: Expanding her range,

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and at each step
solidifying her fame.

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And now looking back on
all she's accomplished,

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Julia returns to her parents,

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and their struggles, with
an immense sense of gratitude.

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ROBERTS: It was always very, uh,

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much a part of my, my
everyday thoughts of success,

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knowing that they
didn't accomplish success

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the way that they wanted to,

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and I think that
that was part of

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what dismantled
their relationship,

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because I think
my mom was always,

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that my dad was
the love of her life.

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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ROBERTS: And so I
think I always felt, um,

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very grateful in my own body,

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and then had this sort of extra
dose of appreciation that came

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from knowing that it's
not about being any better...

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GATES: Mm-hmm.

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ROBERTS: That I certainly
never thought that I'm a more

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talented artist than my parents,

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it was just time and
place and opportunity.

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GATES: My second
guest is Edward Norton.

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Like Julia, Edward's one of
the most accomplished actors

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of his generation, blessed with
an almost mercurial ability to

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blend intelligence with emotion.

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(slaps)

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Since his breakout in
the 1996 film,
Primal Fear,

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Edward has moved
between high-octane dramas.

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(grunting)

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Indie comedies.

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And
Marvel 

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movies.

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(screaming)

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Earning three
Academy Award nominations,

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and innumerable rave reviews.

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But the man who's brought so
much passion to so many roles

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found that passion in a
surprisingly low-key place;

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the local arts
school in his hometown,

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Columbia, Maryland.

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NORTON: A
babysitter of mine, um, uh,

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went to that school
and my parents took me

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to see her in the, in
a play and that was it.

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I, I like, I wanted
to be in that play.

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I, I, you know, but, but I soon
after signed up for classes and

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started taking, you know,

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I took tennis lessons
and all that too, but I,

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but I was going to
theatrical arts school, uh, um,

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for classes from the
time I was five and I loved it.

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GATES: Do you
remember the name of the play?

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NORTON: I do.

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It was called, it was
called
If I Were a Princess

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and it was a musical
of
Cinderella 
basically.

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GATES: Your father thought
it was
Babes in Toyland.

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NORTON: No. He's wrong.

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It was, I wanted to be
one of Cinderella's mice.

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(laughter)

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GATES: Edward
never got to be a mouse,

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but he soon became a member
of the school's troupe and

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performed regularly
throughout his childhood.

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In the process, he
discovered something

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essential about himself.

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NORTON: I learned that I
liked that tribe of people.

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You know, I liked thespians.

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I liked the personality types of
people who were in that trade.

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They were fun.
They were funny.

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Um, they, you know, they, they,

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there was a bohemian
sensibility to being around

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those people and they were,

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you know, this, this
play acting for a living, um,

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00:10:03,576 --> 00:10:06,843
as silly as it is in
many ways, I don't know.

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00:10:06,843 --> 00:10:08,343
There was, it, it seemed like

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00:10:08,343 --> 00:10:12,476
the minstrel life to me
in a way that, um, was,

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00:10:12,476 --> 00:10:13,876
was seductive.

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00:10:13,876 --> 00:10:15,376
It was like this
is was not a nine to,

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00:10:15,376 --> 00:10:17,009
this is not working
in the straight world.

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00:10:17,009 --> 00:10:19,876
You know what I mean, and
it was like this secret club.

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00:10:19,876 --> 00:10:20,909
And I loved all of it.

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00:10:20,909 --> 00:10:24,443
I loved all the, um,
I loved all the lure,

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00:10:24,443 --> 00:10:28,243
the phraseology of the theater,
the superstitions of not saying

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the Scottish plays name and
don't whistle in a theater.

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00:10:31,509 --> 00:10:32,509
And where does that come from?

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00:10:32,509 --> 00:10:35,876
I, I, I, I thought
the whole allure of

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00:10:35,876 --> 00:10:38,076
the theater was very deep.

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00:10:40,276 --> 00:10:42,909
GATES: This, "Allure,"
would pull Edward from Maryland

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00:10:42,909 --> 00:10:45,276
to Broadway and, ultimately,

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00:10:45,276 --> 00:10:49,043
to Hollywood in a
dizzyingly short time.

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00:10:50,009 --> 00:10:51,976
He was working with
legendary playwright,

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Edward Albey,
before his 25th birthday.

219
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And was just 27 when he earned
his first Oscar nomination.

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00:11:02,543 --> 00:11:06,709
But those same years were
also marked by a terrible loss;

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00:11:06,709 --> 00:11:09,576
his mother's death from cancer.

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00:11:09,576 --> 00:11:11,576
The tragedy transformed Edward,

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giving him a sense of
perspective that he carries

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00:11:13,676 --> 00:11:16,776
with him to this day.

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NORTON: You know my mother
passed away literally like

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two weeks before
the Oscars that time.

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00:11:22,409 --> 00:11:23,909
You know, to say it has an

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equalizing effect
is an understatement.

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It, it, it almost,
you know, numbed me to the,

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00:11:29,509 --> 00:11:31,509
to the, it almost
felt like in the,

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00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:33,876
in the
Peanuts 
cartoon
where everything is going

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00:11:33,876 --> 00:11:34,876
whun, whun, whun, whun.

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GATES: Yes. Right.
NORTON: You know?

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00:11:36,076 --> 00:11:39,176
A lot of that hoopla was
happening over here while these

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00:11:39,176 --> 00:11:40,576
kind of profound things
were happening over here.

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00:11:40,576 --> 00:11:41,709
GATES: Mm-hmm.

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00:11:41,709 --> 00:11:43,009
NORTON: And so,
it's surreal and,

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00:11:43,009 --> 00:11:46,909
and devastating but then, too,
you have this surreal experience

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00:11:46,909 --> 00:11:48,509
that life is continuing.

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00:11:48,509 --> 00:11:50,209
Your life is continuing.

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00:11:50,209 --> 00:11:53,309
You're doing the things
they wanted you to do and,

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00:11:53,309 --> 00:11:56,743
you find that over time,
through the grief, you find

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00:11:56,743 --> 00:11:58,843
the relationship hasn't ended,
it continues.

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00:11:58,843 --> 00:12:00,009
GATES: Uh-huh, right.

245
00:12:00,009 --> 00:12:01,143
NORTON: You're still
talking to that person.

246
00:12:01,143 --> 00:12:02,543
You're still
reaching out to them.

247
00:12:02,543 --> 00:12:04,943
You're still not just
thinking what would they do,

248
00:12:04,943 --> 00:12:06,943
but you're kind of
like communing with them

249
00:12:06,943 --> 00:12:08,909
and hearing their advice,

250
00:12:08,909 --> 00:12:12,943
or you know, sensing
their pleasure at the thing

251
00:12:12,943 --> 00:12:15,309
that's happening that
you're sad that they're missing.

252
00:12:15,309 --> 00:12:19,443
And it's not, you know,
it's not, it's not a, um,

253
00:12:19,443 --> 00:12:24,543
it's not a total mitigation
of your grief but it's a weird,

254
00:12:24,543 --> 00:12:27,843
it's strange how
you discover that,

255
00:12:27,843 --> 00:12:29,676
that your sort of, you're
not just carrying the torch.

256
00:12:29,676 --> 00:12:32,609
You're kind of still in
this conversation with them.

257
00:12:35,176 --> 00:12:37,143
GATES: Both Edward
and Julia clearly bear

258
00:12:37,143 --> 00:12:39,509
the imprint of their parents.

259
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:43,743
Now, each was about to
discover how they'd been marked

260
00:12:43,743 --> 00:12:47,743
by their ancestors,
in ways more obscure,

261
00:12:47,743 --> 00:12:50,076
but no less profound.

262
00:12:52,509 --> 00:12:55,276
I started with Julia.

263
00:12:56,643 --> 00:12:58,343
She was raised in Georgia,

264
00:12:58,343 --> 00:13:01,709
knowing that her mother's
family was from Minnesota.

265
00:13:01,709 --> 00:13:05,343
Beyond that, she'd heard
stories about roots in Sweden,

266
00:13:05,343 --> 00:13:08,143
but had no idea
if they were true.

267
00:13:08,143 --> 00:13:10,676
We set off to find out.

268
00:13:11,709 --> 00:13:14,443
In the
1940 census for Minnesota,

269
00:13:14,443 --> 00:13:18,609
we saw Julia's mother,
Betty Lou Bredemus,

270
00:13:18,609 --> 00:13:22,976
living with her parents, as
well as a 56-year-old widow

271
00:13:22,976 --> 00:13:25,609
named Lornore Bredemus.

272
00:13:25,609 --> 00:13:28,443
Lornore's birth name was Elin.

273
00:13:28,443 --> 00:13:30,576
She's Julia's great-grandmother.

274
00:13:30,576 --> 00:13:34,043
And a tangible tie
to her deeper origins.

275
00:13:34,409 --> 00:13:36,743
ROBERTS: "Place
of birth, Sweden."

276
00:13:36,743 --> 00:13:40,909
GATES: Sweden.
Elin was born on April 30, 1884.

277
00:13:40,909 --> 00:13:42,743
ROBERTS: Wow.
GATES: In Sweden.

278
00:13:42,743 --> 00:13:44,976
ROBERTS: Wow.
GATES: Did you know that?

279
00:13:44,976 --> 00:13:48,143
ROBERTS: Well, I mean, I
thought there was Swedish,

280
00:13:48,143 --> 00:13:50,309
and now we have a confirmation.

281
00:13:50,309 --> 00:13:53,276
Not that I wasn't believing
my mom, but you just never know.

282
00:13:53,276 --> 00:13:54,976
GATES: What's it like to
see that in black and white?

283
00:13:54,976 --> 00:13:55,976
That confirmed?

284
00:13:55,976 --> 00:13:57,676
ROBERTS: It's pretty cool.

285
00:13:57,676 --> 00:14:01,443
It's, uh, I can't
wait for someone to

286
00:14:01,443 --> 00:14:02,909
ask me where I'm from now.

287
00:14:02,909 --> 00:14:04,343
(laughs).

288
00:14:04,343 --> 00:14:05,509
ROBERTS: Georgia no more.

289
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:06,609
(laughs).

290
00:14:08,209 --> 00:14:09,943
GATES: This census
was the beginning of

291
00:14:09,943 --> 00:14:12,176
a much larger journey.

292
00:14:12,176 --> 00:14:15,776
In the province of Värmland,
in west-central Sweden,

293
00:14:15,776 --> 00:14:18,509
we found Elin's
baptismal record,

294
00:14:18,509 --> 00:14:20,243
which not only lists the names

295
00:14:20,243 --> 00:14:23,743
of her parents, Julia's
great-great-grandparents,

296
00:14:23,743 --> 00:14:27,643
but also provides some telling
details about their lives.

297
00:14:27,643 --> 00:14:30,376
ROBERTS: "Name, Elin Maria.

298
00:14:30,376 --> 00:14:34,109
Birth, April 30.
Christening, May 18.

299
00:14:34,109 --> 00:14:39,443
Johan Jansson and
Emma Kristiani Karlsdotter.

300
00:14:39,443 --> 00:14:41,376
Married for six months."

301
00:14:41,376 --> 00:14:42,976
GATES: Mm-hmm.
And Karlsdotter.

302
00:14:42,976 --> 00:14:44,309
ROBERTS: Wait. They were
only married for six months?

303
00:14:44,309 --> 00:14:46,343
GATES: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
You did the math.

304
00:14:46,343 --> 00:14:47,776
ROBERTS: Wow.
GATES: Mm-hmm.

305
00:14:47,776 --> 00:14:49,376
ROBERTS: People.

306
00:14:49,376 --> 00:14:50,843
GATES: What's it
like to see that?

307
00:14:50,843 --> 00:14:53,476
ROBERTS: It's just so dear
just to think of her having

308
00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:56,343
a christening, just to
picture her as a baby.

309
00:14:56,343 --> 00:14:57,743
GATES: And that's the
church where she was baptized.

310
00:14:57,743 --> 00:14:59,743
ROBERTS: And. Oh. Really?
GATES: Mm-hmm.

311
00:14:59,743 --> 00:15:00,976
ROBERTS: The
church is still there.

312
00:15:00,976 --> 00:15:02,343
GATES: That church is
still there and you can see it.

313
00:15:02,343 --> 00:15:04,843
ROBERTS: That's incredible.

314
00:15:06,309 --> 00:15:09,943
GATES: This church evokes
what many of us imagine when

315
00:15:09,943 --> 00:15:13,443
we picture Sweden;
an idyllic place,

316
00:15:13,443 --> 00:15:16,043
where people are
comfortable, secure,

317
00:15:16,043 --> 00:15:18,343
and live peacefully.

318
00:15:18,343 --> 00:15:22,209
But that's not the place that
Julia's ancestors inhabited.

319
00:15:23,309 --> 00:15:27,076
Elin's parents, Julia's
second great-grandparents,

320
00:15:27,076 --> 00:15:29,609
were Johan and Emma Jansson.

321
00:15:29,609 --> 00:15:34,243
Her baptismal record refers
to them as being, "Statares,"

322
00:15:34,243 --> 00:15:37,343
meaning that they
were itinerant farmhands,

323
00:15:37,343 --> 00:15:41,543
landless laborers who traveled
from one estate to another doing

324
00:15:41,543 --> 00:15:45,443
seasonal work, living under a
system that seems to have been

325
00:15:45,443 --> 00:15:49,276
designed to keep
them impoverished.

326
00:15:49,276 --> 00:15:51,876
ROBERTS: Look at their clothes.

327
00:15:51,876 --> 00:15:53,809
Wow.

328
00:15:53,809 --> 00:15:55,743
GATES: Statares
had to be married,

329
00:15:55,743 --> 00:15:58,809
that was a rule, so both
Johan and Emma would have

330
00:15:58,809 --> 00:16:01,476
worked together on the estate.

331
00:16:01,476 --> 00:16:03,243
They likely worked
seven days a week,

332
00:16:03,243 --> 00:16:06,009
including every holiday.

333
00:16:06,009 --> 00:16:09,043
ROBERTS: I mean, some
of these little girls,

334
00:16:09,043 --> 00:16:10,409
look at that boy.

335
00:16:10,409 --> 00:16:12,043
He's serious.

336
00:16:12,043 --> 00:16:13,976
GATES: Want to guess how much
your ancestors would have been

337
00:16:13,976 --> 00:16:15,243
paid for all that hard work?

338
00:16:15,243 --> 00:16:16,776
ROBERTS: Oh, I can't imagine.

339
00:16:16,776 --> 00:16:19,476
GATES: Almost nothing.
ROBERTS: Wow.

340
00:16:19,476 --> 00:16:20,776
GATES: In exchange
for all that work,

341
00:16:20,776 --> 00:16:25,143
your ancestors would have been
given meager housing, food,

342
00:16:25,143 --> 00:16:28,543
enough to subsist on,
and very little money.

343
00:16:28,543 --> 00:16:30,009
ROBERTS: Wow.

344
00:16:30,009 --> 00:16:33,576
GATES: They had a hard life.
ROBERTS: It looks hard.

345
00:16:33,576 --> 00:16:36,543
Maybe that's why nobody
ever talked about it.

346
00:16:37,243 --> 00:16:38,943
GATES: Statares
were essentially their

347
00:16:38,943 --> 00:16:42,609
own class within
Swedish society,

348
00:16:42,609 --> 00:16:46,276
existing at the very
bottom of the social ladder.

349
00:16:46,276 --> 00:16:49,709
Typically they lived in
barrack-style dorms where

350
00:16:49,709 --> 00:16:52,909
multiple families
would be housed together.

351
00:16:52,909 --> 00:16:57,143
Rooms were damp and crowded,
rife with rats and other vermin,

352
00:16:57,143 --> 00:17:01,176
as well as
tuberculosis and dysentery.

353
00:17:01,809 --> 00:17:04,443
Children like Elin
were poorly educated,

354
00:17:04,443 --> 00:17:07,243
if they were educated at all.

355
00:17:08,076 --> 00:17:09,943
ROBERTS: It sounds horrible.

356
00:17:09,943 --> 00:17:13,543
And to have a baby in a place
that has rats and cockroaches

357
00:17:13,543 --> 00:17:16,109
and rampant tuberculosis.

358
00:17:16,109 --> 00:17:18,409
GATES: Mm, and to be
all crowded in with people.

359
00:17:18,409 --> 00:17:20,409
ROBERTS: Yeah.
GATES: No privacy.

360
00:17:20,409 --> 00:17:22,443
No sanitation.

361
00:17:22,443 --> 00:17:24,109
ROBERTS: Oh.

362
00:17:24,109 --> 00:17:28,676
Wow, and how they
obviously prevailed.

363
00:17:28,676 --> 00:17:29,676
GATES: Mm-hmm.

364
00:17:29,676 --> 00:17:31,143
ROBERTS: I mean,
I'm sitting here.

365
00:17:31,143 --> 00:17:33,876
GATES: Right.
ROBERTS: They, they kept going.

366
00:17:33,876 --> 00:17:36,276
GATES: Well, let's see
what they did about this.

367
00:17:36,276 --> 00:17:37,776
Could you please turn the page?

368
00:17:37,776 --> 00:17:39,143
ROBERTS: Yeah.

369
00:17:39,143 --> 00:17:42,843
Somebody had to get on a boat or
an oxcart at some point, right?

370
00:17:42,843 --> 00:17:44,143
GATES: Could you
please turn the page?

371
00:17:44,143 --> 00:17:46,776
ROBERTS: Okay.
GATES: You got it right.

372
00:17:46,776 --> 00:17:48,009
ROBERTS: There's a boat.
GATES: There's a boat.

373
00:17:48,009 --> 00:17:50,843
This is a list of
passengers leaving the

374
00:17:50,843 --> 00:17:56,109
port of Göteborg, Sweden,
on April 1, 1887, nearly

375
00:17:56,109 --> 00:17:59,209
three years after your
great-grandmother's birth.

376
00:17:59,209 --> 00:18:01,609
Would you please read
who was on that ship?

377
00:18:01,609 --> 00:18:05,709
ROBERTS: Okay.
"Johan Jansson, 27."

378
00:18:05,709 --> 00:18:07,309
GATES: Mm-hmm.
ROBERTS: "Birthplace, By..."

379
00:18:07,309 --> 00:18:09,509
GATES: Mm-hmm.
ROBERTS: "In Värmland."

380
00:18:09,509 --> 00:18:12,476
GATES: Mm-hmm.
ROBERTS: Destination, Minnesota.

381
00:18:12,476 --> 00:18:14,543
GATES: Yep.
ROBERTS: "Emma, 28.

382
00:18:14,543 --> 00:18:17,043
Birthplace, By in Värmland."

383
00:18:17,043 --> 00:18:18,143
GATES: Mm-hmm.

384
00:18:18,143 --> 00:18:20,543
ROBERTS: "Elin,
two years, 11 months.

385
00:18:20,543 --> 00:18:23,309
Birthplace, By in Värmland."

386
00:18:23,309 --> 00:18:24,709
GATES: Mm-hmm.
ROBERTS: "Gustaf."

387
00:18:24,709 --> 00:18:25,743
(laughs).

388
00:18:25,743 --> 00:18:27,009
ROBERTS: Welcome, Gustaf.

389
00:18:27,009 --> 00:18:31,909
"11 months.
Birthplace, By in Värmland."

390
00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:35,876
GATES: You're looking at the
record that records the moment

391
00:18:35,876 --> 00:18:40,143
your ancestors left Sweden for
the United States of America.

392
00:18:40,143 --> 00:18:41,343
ROBERTS: Amazing.

393
00:18:41,343 --> 00:18:43,509
I mean, it just makes me
think that they were very brave.

394
00:18:43,509 --> 00:18:44,943
GATES: Mm-hmm.

395
00:18:44,943 --> 00:18:47,643
ROBERTS: To go off
with two little children.

396
00:18:47,643 --> 00:18:49,109
GATES: Mm-hmm.

397
00:18:49,109 --> 00:18:53,009
ROBERTS: To a whole other land,
a whole other language.

398
00:18:53,009 --> 00:18:54,909
It's very brave.

399
00:18:54,909 --> 00:18:56,409
GATES: Mm.
They rolled the dice.

400
00:18:56,409 --> 00:18:57,409
ROBERTS: Yeah.

401
00:18:57,409 --> 00:19:00,976
I mean to get off this boat,

402
00:19:00,976 --> 00:19:02,576
and you're standing on a dock.

403
00:19:02,576 --> 00:19:05,343
GATES: Mm-hmm.
ROBERTS: And where do you go?

404
00:19:05,343 --> 00:19:06,743
GATES: Yeah.

405
00:19:06,743 --> 00:19:08,076
ROBERTS: How do
you know where to go?

406
00:19:08,076 --> 00:19:09,076
GATES: Right.

407
00:19:09,076 --> 00:19:11,176
ROBERTS: You can't
even read a sign.

408
00:19:12,576 --> 00:19:14,743
Oh my gosh.

409
00:19:16,043 --> 00:19:19,576
GATES: Julia's ancestor
were fortunate in one regard;

410
00:19:19,576 --> 00:19:21,443
they were not alone.

411
00:19:21,443 --> 00:19:26,309
During the 1880s, over
300,000 of their fellow Swedes

412
00:19:26,309 --> 00:19:29,109
migrated to the United States.

413
00:19:29,109 --> 00:19:31,343
Many settling in the Midwest,

414
00:19:31,343 --> 00:19:36,776
drawn by economic opportunities
not available in their homeland.

415
00:19:36,776 --> 00:19:40,943
So Johan and Emma became part of
a community of immigrants and in

416
00:19:40,943 --> 00:19:45,443
this supportive environment,
they found a way to thrive.

417
00:19:47,176 --> 00:19:50,143
ROBERTS: "John Johnson,
head of household, 46,

418
00:19:50,143 --> 00:19:51,843
naturalized, plumber."

419
00:19:51,843 --> 00:19:55,376
GATES: Mm-hmm.
ROBERTS: Emma, wife, 41, wait.

420
00:19:55,376 --> 00:19:56,776
She got younger?

421
00:19:56,776 --> 00:19:58,143
GATES: Yeah. She got younger.

422
00:19:58,143 --> 00:19:59,309
(laughter)

423
00:19:59,309 --> 00:20:01,076
ROBERTS: Well done, Emma.

424
00:20:01,076 --> 00:20:06,576
August, son, 15.
George, son, 13.

425
00:20:06,576 --> 00:20:11,076
Freda, daughter, ten.
Charles, son, eight.

426
00:20:11,076 --> 00:20:13,576
Albert, son, six.

427
00:20:13,576 --> 00:20:15,043
Okay. Give them some privacy.

428
00:20:15,043 --> 00:20:16,243
GATES: Yeah.

429
00:20:16,243 --> 00:20:20,743
ROBERTS: Clarence, son, four,
and Edwin W, son, two.

430
00:20:20,743 --> 00:20:22,309
GATES: Yeah.
They worked on, like clockwork.

431
00:20:22,309 --> 00:20:24,409
ROBERTS: Yeah.
Once they had a door to close.

432
00:20:24,409 --> 00:20:25,776
Wow.

433
00:20:25,776 --> 00:20:28,043
GATES: There are your
ancestors, Johan and Emma

434
00:20:28,043 --> 00:20:30,476
in Minneapolis with
their eight children.

435
00:20:30,476 --> 00:20:33,409
ROBERTS: One, two,
three, four, five, six boys.

436
00:20:33,409 --> 00:20:36,176
GATES: Mm.
ROBERTS: Wow.

437
00:20:36,176 --> 00:20:37,943
GATES: And what's
it like to see this,

438
00:20:37,943 --> 00:20:41,109
to think about how far
they'd come in just 13 years?

439
00:20:41,109 --> 00:20:44,009
If they'd stayed in Sweden
they'd almost certainly all

440
00:20:44,009 --> 00:20:47,576
still be landless
itinerant farmhands.

441
00:20:47,576 --> 00:20:51,343
ROBERTS: Yeah, and maybe
perished in those conditions.

442
00:20:51,343 --> 00:20:52,809
GATES: Remember,
tuberculosis was rampant.

443
00:20:52,809 --> 00:20:54,076
ROBERTS: Yeah.

444
00:20:54,076 --> 00:20:57,143
I mean, to see this, like, big,
of course in my dreamy mind,

445
00:20:57,143 --> 00:21:00,309
happy family, and
for him to be a plumber,

446
00:21:00,309 --> 00:21:02,209
which is a very
good job to have.

447
00:21:02,209 --> 00:21:03,476
GATES: Oh, indeed.

448
00:21:03,476 --> 00:21:05,943
ROBERTS: That they were clever,
that they had a plan, and it

449
00:21:05,943 --> 00:21:08,576
seems like they
really fully executed it.

450
00:21:11,009 --> 00:21:14,509
GATES: We had one more detail
to share regarding this family.

451
00:21:14,509 --> 00:21:18,176
Returning to Sweden, we found
a wealth of church records,

452
00:21:18,176 --> 00:21:19,843
allowing us to trace back

453
00:21:19,843 --> 00:21:22,509
to Julia's sixth
great-grandparents,

454
00:21:22,509 --> 00:21:28,043
who were born in small towns in
Värmland almost 300 years ago.

455
00:21:29,976 --> 00:21:31,843
ROBERTS: "Jonas Labäck."

456
00:21:31,843 --> 00:21:34,143
Born in 1755.

457
00:21:34,143 --> 00:21:36,009
GATES: Mm-hmm. In Stenstad.

458
00:21:36,009 --> 00:21:39,743
ROBERTS: And
Maria Johansdotter,

459
00:21:39,743 --> 00:21:42,309
born in 1756.

460
00:21:42,309 --> 00:21:46,209
GATES: In Färnebo.
ROBERTS: That's a cute name.

461
00:21:46,209 --> 00:21:52,543
GATES: You are back to
the year 1755 and 1756

462
00:21:52,543 --> 00:21:55,343
on your mother's side
of your family tree.

463
00:21:55,343 --> 00:21:57,243
ROBERTS: I'm going to
call that heavy Swedish.

464
00:21:57,243 --> 00:21:58,476
GATES: That's heavy Swedish.

465
00:21:58,476 --> 00:22:00,443
This is before the United States

466
00:22:00,443 --> 00:22:01,809
became the United States.

467
00:22:01,809 --> 00:22:02,909
ROBERTS: Wow.

468
00:22:02,909 --> 00:22:04,609
GATES: America was
still a colony of Britain.

469
00:22:04,609 --> 00:22:07,576
The revolution
breaks out in 1775.

470
00:22:07,576 --> 00:22:10,543
This is 20 years before the
Battle of Lexington and Concord.

471
00:22:10,543 --> 00:22:11,843
ROBERTS: Wow.

472
00:22:11,843 --> 00:22:13,609
GATES: And we have gone back
that far in your family tree.

473
00:22:13,609 --> 00:22:15,576
ROBERTS: This is amazing.

474
00:22:15,576 --> 00:22:18,943
GATES: Are you feeling
more Swedish than you were

475
00:22:18,943 --> 00:22:20,643
two hours ago when you
walked into this building?

476
00:22:20,643 --> 00:22:22,643
ROBERTS: I, I'm going
to be insufferably Swedish

477
00:22:22,643 --> 00:22:23,776
when I walk out of here.

478
00:22:23,776 --> 00:22:25,276
You have no idea.

479
00:22:25,276 --> 00:22:29,409
I know one Swedish word,
and it's going to be on repeat.

480
00:22:29,409 --> 00:22:31,776
GATES: Ja.
ROBERTS: Hallå.

481
00:22:31,776 --> 00:22:33,243
That's my only Swedish word.

482
00:22:33,243 --> 00:22:34,476
GATES: What's that mean?
ROBERTS: Hello.

483
00:22:34,476 --> 00:22:35,476
GATES: Oh.

484
00:22:35,476 --> 00:22:36,943
(laughter).

485
00:22:38,876 --> 00:22:41,143
GATES: Like Julia,
Edward Norton was about to

486
00:22:41,143 --> 00:22:43,709
travel deep into
his family's past.

487
00:22:43,709 --> 00:22:46,376
But before we could
begin that journey,

488
00:22:46,376 --> 00:22:49,743
we had to navigate
an unusual obstacle;

489
00:22:49,743 --> 00:22:52,343
Edward's own
knowledge of the subject.

490
00:22:52,343 --> 00:22:55,043
Edward is a passionate
student of history,

491
00:22:55,043 --> 00:22:57,876
and especially the
history of his own family.

492
00:22:57,876 --> 00:23:01,943
In fact, he came to me
knowing more details about

493
00:23:01,943 --> 00:23:05,609
his roots than any
guest I can recall.

494
00:23:06,843 --> 00:23:08,676
GATES: How do you know so
much about your family tree?

495
00:23:08,676 --> 00:23:10,109
NORTON: Well, I was,
I was fascinated by it.

496
00:23:10,109 --> 00:23:15,176
I'm fascinated by, um,
the idea of roots, the idea of,

497
00:23:15,176 --> 00:23:18,676
of what drives people
to leave one place and

498
00:23:18,676 --> 00:23:21,943
go to another, um, is,
is fascinating to me.

499
00:23:21,943 --> 00:23:23,909
GATES: Usually something bad.
NORTON: Often. Yeah.

500
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:25,476
GATES: Rich
people don't migrate.

501
00:23:25,476 --> 00:23:26,976
(laughter).

502
00:23:26,976 --> 00:23:30,343
NORTON: Um, but I think,
you know, I, I was, I was lucky.

503
00:23:30,343 --> 00:23:32,476
I had grandparents,
for instance, who,

504
00:23:32,476 --> 00:23:36,743
I knew my, my grandfather was
Ed Norton and his grandfather

505
00:23:36,743 --> 00:23:40,976
was named Seneca Hughes Norton
and we knew not only that he had

506
00:23:40,976 --> 00:23:42,743
gone to West Point
during the Civil War,

507
00:23:42,743 --> 00:23:44,809
graduated and was
part of, um, I think,

508
00:23:44,809 --> 00:23:46,876
Phil Sheridan's
second calvary in Montana,

509
00:23:46,876 --> 00:23:49,976
in the Montana territories
in the 1870s but not just that,

510
00:23:49,976 --> 00:23:51,309
we have his journals.

511
00:23:51,309 --> 00:23:52,443
GATES: Yeah.

512
00:23:52,443 --> 00:23:54,476
NORTON: We, we have
two leather bound journals that,

513
00:23:54,476 --> 00:23:57,243
that he wrote in and
when he ran out of space,

514
00:23:57,243 --> 00:24:00,643
he turned it 90 degrees
and wrote across the lines,

515
00:24:00,643 --> 00:24:03,343
and my grandparents had sat
there with a magnifying glass

516
00:24:03,343 --> 00:24:05,143
and picked it out
and transcribed it,

517
00:24:05,143 --> 00:24:06,943
so I had that kind of thing.

518
00:24:06,943 --> 00:24:08,076
GATES: Wow.
You were very lucky. Very.

519
00:24:08,076 --> 00:24:10,243
NORTON: Very lucky.
Very lucky in that sense. Yeah.

520
00:24:12,309 --> 00:24:14,843
GATES: Given the extent
of Edward's knowledge,

521
00:24:14,843 --> 00:24:17,809
I was worried that we might not
be able to uncover anything new

522
00:24:17,809 --> 00:24:19,676
about his family tree.

523
00:24:19,676 --> 00:24:23,843
Fortunately, our
researchers didn't disappoint.

524
00:24:23,843 --> 00:24:27,309
Discovering a slew
of surprising stories.

525
00:24:28,509 --> 00:24:31,143
The first began on
Edward's father's line,

526
00:24:31,143 --> 00:24:33,276
with his
great-great-grandfather,

527
00:24:33,276 --> 00:24:35,909
a man named Frank Baals.

528
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:40,109
Frank died in
Ashland, Kentucky in 1905.

529
00:24:40,109 --> 00:24:43,509
According to his obituary,
he worked as a yardmaster for

530
00:24:43,509 --> 00:24:47,276
an Indiana railroad
company in the 1890s.

531
00:24:47,276 --> 00:24:51,243
A time of great turmoil
in America's labor movement.

532
00:24:51,243 --> 00:24:54,676
Indeed, Edward was on
the job during the notorious

533
00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:58,376
pullman strike, which
ended in open battles between

534
00:24:58,376 --> 00:25:02,409
striking workers and
the United States military.

535
00:25:02,809 --> 00:25:04,743
Any family stories about that?

536
00:25:04,743 --> 00:25:07,043
NORTON: No. I've heard
that name, not even Frank,

537
00:25:07,043 --> 00:25:10,643
but the, the name Baals
I knew was within my, um,

538
00:25:10,643 --> 00:25:16,009
my grandfather's,
you know, paternal lines,

539
00:25:16,009 --> 00:25:19,209
but I literally
never even heard a story.

540
00:25:19,209 --> 00:25:20,276
GATES: Could you
please turn the page.

541
00:25:20,276 --> 00:25:21,309
NORTON: Yeah.

542
00:25:21,309 --> 00:25:22,409
GATES: It turns out
there's more to his death

543
00:25:22,409 --> 00:25:24,909
than that obituary let on.

544
00:25:24,909 --> 00:25:28,609
NORTON: Wow.
"Frank Baals was murdered."

545
00:25:28,609 --> 00:25:30,543
"The fact that the late
Frank Baals was probably

546
00:25:30,543 --> 00:25:32,443
murdered became
known here yesterday

547
00:25:32,443 --> 00:25:35,776
for the first time when
his alleged slayer, Rat Haney,

548
00:25:35,776 --> 00:25:38,943
was placed on trial in
Catlettsburg, Kentucky.

549
00:25:38,943 --> 00:25:41,143
No motive for the
murder of Mr. Baals

550
00:25:41,143 --> 00:25:42,576
has yet been discovered.

551
00:25:42,576 --> 00:25:45,476
He had money on his person
on the night he met his death,

552
00:25:45,476 --> 00:25:47,076
but it was not touched.

553
00:25:47,076 --> 00:25:50,343
His injuries were all about
the head and were evidently

554
00:25:50,343 --> 00:25:53,076
inflicted by a club
or other instrument.

555
00:25:53,076 --> 00:25:56,309
A neighbor saw Mr. Baals on
the night of the murder sitting

556
00:25:56,309 --> 00:25:58,009
in front of the barber shop.

557
00:25:58,009 --> 00:26:00,409
He saw a man
come along, strike Mr...

558
00:26:00,409 --> 00:26:02,176
Strike Baals over the head.

559
00:26:02,176 --> 00:26:05,476
Mrs. Baals heard her
husband call and running out

560
00:26:05,476 --> 00:26:08,543
upon the porch saw
him hanging to a post,

561
00:26:08,543 --> 00:26:10,776
blood streaming
from his wounds."

562
00:26:10,776 --> 00:26:12,609
That is amazing.

563
00:26:12,609 --> 00:26:15,609
I mean, what a story, uh,

564
00:26:15,609 --> 00:26:18,009
but certainly,
I've never heard that.

565
00:26:18,009 --> 00:26:20,709
Never, never, ever
heard of anything like that.

566
00:26:20,709 --> 00:26:23,576
I wonder if it was a disgruntled
railroad worker who did.

567
00:26:23,576 --> 00:26:24,643
GATES: Well, we're gonna find,
we're gonna find out.

568
00:26:24,643 --> 00:26:26,509
(laughs).

569
00:26:26,509 --> 00:26:30,143
GATES: As a yardmaster,
Frank was management,

570
00:26:30,143 --> 00:26:33,409
and when the strike came,
it seems he stayed loyal to

571
00:26:33,409 --> 00:26:37,376
his company, working to
keep the railroads running.

572
00:26:37,376 --> 00:26:40,243
Which most certainly,
would not have endeared him to

573
00:26:40,243 --> 00:26:43,043
the striking members
of his community.

574
00:26:43,043 --> 00:26:47,276
But Frank's unfortunate death
may have arisen from a cause

575
00:26:47,276 --> 00:26:52,876
far simpler; it seems that
Frank had a pension for arguing.

576
00:26:54,076 --> 00:26:55,876
NORTON: "Those who were
acquainted with Mr. Baals will

577
00:26:55,876 --> 00:26:59,276
remember that he was a
very plainspoken man letting

578
00:26:59,276 --> 00:27:01,709
the result be what it would."

579
00:27:01,709 --> 00:27:03,009
(laughs).

580
00:27:03,009 --> 00:27:05,443
That sounds like someone who
speaks uncomfortable truths.

581
00:27:05,443 --> 00:27:08,543
"Yet he seemed unable to
control himself sufficiently

582
00:27:08,543 --> 00:27:10,043
to avoid danger.

583
00:27:10,043 --> 00:27:13,443
A few days before his death,
he had been engaged in a

584
00:27:13,443 --> 00:27:16,509
political conversation with a
number of men and is supposed

585
00:27:16,509 --> 00:27:19,976
to have expressed himself
too freely upon the subject

586
00:27:19,976 --> 00:27:22,909
causing an ill feeling
by some of the party."

587
00:27:22,909 --> 00:27:24,576
(laughter).

588
00:27:24,576 --> 00:27:25,976
GATES: According
to this article,

589
00:27:25,976 --> 00:27:27,709
Frank was killed over politics.

590
00:27:27,709 --> 00:27:29,409
What's it like to read that?

591
00:27:29,409 --> 00:27:31,343
NORTON: Uh, I mean, amusing.

592
00:27:31,343 --> 00:27:32,809
Not for Frank, but, um.

593
00:27:32,809 --> 00:27:35,276
GATES: Well, we looked
into Thomas Haney, the Rat.

594
00:27:35,276 --> 00:27:36,676
NORTON: Right.
GATES: Um.

595
00:27:36,676 --> 00:27:38,809
Rat Haney as he was called,
and we discovered that he was

596
00:27:38,809 --> 00:27:41,309
a bartender in Ashland.

597
00:27:41,309 --> 00:27:45,443
Perhaps Frank said something
inflammatory in Haney's bar.

598
00:27:45,443 --> 00:27:47,009
We can't say for certain.

599
00:27:47,009 --> 00:27:50,576
Whatever it was about, it got
heated enough for Thomas Haney

600
00:27:50,576 --> 00:27:54,009
to bludgeon your great-great
grandfather in the head.

601
00:27:54,009 --> 00:27:55,343
That amazing?

602
00:27:55,343 --> 00:27:56,443
NORTON: Amazing.

603
00:27:56,443 --> 00:27:58,209
GATES: And, and that
story was not passed on.

604
00:27:58,209 --> 00:28:01,909
I mean, for your family,
which is extraordinarily prone

605
00:28:01,909 --> 00:28:05,409
to sharing stories, there's
one that was filtered out, yeah.

606
00:28:05,409 --> 00:28:07,643
NORTON: Its wild.
These are consequential...

607
00:28:07,643 --> 00:28:09,976
These are consequential things.

608
00:28:10,976 --> 00:28:12,476
GATES: Following a
different branch of Edward's

609
00:28:12,476 --> 00:28:16,476
father's family, we soon
came to another story that

610
00:28:16,476 --> 00:28:19,043
had not been, "Passed down."

611
00:28:19,043 --> 00:28:21,009
Edward's third
great-grandfather,

612
00:28:21,009 --> 00:28:23,376
a man who shares his name,

613
00:28:23,376 --> 00:28:25,443
became a wealthy
iron manufacturer

614
00:28:25,443 --> 00:28:27,409
during the 19th century.

615
00:28:27,409 --> 00:28:30,943
But sadly his childhood
sounds like something out

616
00:28:30,943 --> 00:28:33,143
of a Dickens novel.

617
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:36,643
NORTON: "Norton began life at
the bottom rung of the ladder

618
00:28:36,643 --> 00:28:41,509
starting as a nail
feeder in Phoenixville, PA,

619
00:28:41,509 --> 00:28:45,843
then advancing as a nailer in,
at Pittsburgh and later with

620
00:28:45,843 --> 00:28:50,276
E.W. Stevens founding the
first nail mill in the city."

621
00:28:50,276 --> 00:28:51,609
GATES: Have you ever
heard of a nail feeder before?

622
00:28:51,609 --> 00:28:52,843
NORTON: No.
GATES: Okay.

623
00:28:52,843 --> 00:28:55,243
They worked in iron mills
placing worn nails or other

624
00:28:55,243 --> 00:28:58,843
scrap iron into a
machine or into an open fire,

625
00:28:58,843 --> 00:29:01,309
so that it could be
melted down and reused.

626
00:29:01,309 --> 00:29:03,676
It was an essential part of
the iron industry at the time,

627
00:29:03,676 --> 00:29:06,409
and it was dirty and dangerous

628
00:29:06,409 --> 00:29:09,276
and extraordinarily
uncomfortable work.

629
00:29:09,276 --> 00:29:13,043
There were explosions and fires
in these mills all the time,

630
00:29:13,043 --> 00:29:15,376
and it was also frequently
work done by children.

631
00:29:15,376 --> 00:29:16,676
NORTON: Hmm.

632
00:29:16,676 --> 00:29:20,009
GATES: Edward likely started
in the mill as a teenager and

633
00:29:20,009 --> 00:29:22,443
almost certainly had
no formal education.

634
00:29:22,443 --> 00:29:23,443
Can you imagine?

635
00:29:23,443 --> 00:29:24,709
NORTON: No.

636
00:29:24,709 --> 00:29:29,576
But I think it's very hard
for us today to conceptualize

637
00:29:29,576 --> 00:29:34,043
the violent danger of a child
working in a blast furnace.

638
00:29:34,043 --> 00:29:35,276
You know what I mean?
I mean, it's like...

639
00:29:35,276 --> 00:29:36,309
GATES: Picking up nails.

640
00:29:36,309 --> 00:29:38,243
NORTON: We would no
more let our children be

641
00:29:38,243 --> 00:29:40,143
anywhere near that environment.

642
00:29:40,143 --> 00:29:42,476
You know what I mean?
It's, it's nuts to think about.

643
00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:43,809
GATES: Yeah. Yeah.
NORTON: It's, um...

644
00:29:43,809 --> 00:29:44,809
GATES: It should
have been illegal.

645
00:29:44,809 --> 00:29:46,476
NORTON: Absolutely.

646
00:29:47,076 --> 00:29:50,609
GATES: Edward's ancestor never
forgot his working-class roots.

647
00:29:50,609 --> 00:29:53,509
Even as he built
up his business,

648
00:29:53,509 --> 00:29:56,209
he remained a staunch
supporter of what we would now

649
00:29:56,209 --> 00:29:58,609
call progressive causes.

650
00:29:59,409 --> 00:30:02,909
What's more, when the
Civil War came to Virginia

651
00:30:02,909 --> 00:30:06,743
where he was living,
Edward sided with the Union,

652
00:30:06,743 --> 00:30:09,443
going so far as to
offer his services as

653
00:30:09,443 --> 00:30:13,576
a United States Marshall
in the fight against slavery.

654
00:30:15,109 --> 00:30:16,443
NORTON: That's interesting.

655
00:30:16,443 --> 00:30:19,843
You know, you want
to try to prep yourself

656
00:30:19,843 --> 00:30:24,143
for having the nerve to
do the same thing should

657
00:30:24,143 --> 00:30:28,009
a thing like that come along
and it's, it's, it's cool to,

658
00:30:28,009 --> 00:30:32,976
it's cool to, you know, see
small and big examples of it in,

659
00:30:32,976 --> 00:30:36,509
in the, in the kind of the
quotidian details of what people

660
00:30:36,509 --> 00:30:40,043
went through during
this totally intense time.

661
00:30:40,043 --> 00:30:42,076
GATES: Yeah.

662
00:30:42,343 --> 00:30:46,509
As a Marshall, Edward's ancestor
followed his own conscience,

663
00:30:46,509 --> 00:30:51,243
refusing to help
capture escaped slaves and,

664
00:30:51,243 --> 00:30:57,343
in July of 1862, he penned a
remarkable letter to none other

665
00:30:57,343 --> 00:31:01,843
than Abraham Lincoln himself,
urging the president to allow

666
00:31:01,843 --> 00:31:05,909
African American men to
fight in the Union Army.

667
00:31:07,143 --> 00:31:08,676
NORTON: "Dear Sir!"
With an exclamation point...

668
00:31:08,676 --> 00:31:09,843
GATES: I like that.

669
00:31:09,843 --> 00:31:12,276
NORTON: "Excuse me for
intruding this letter upon you.

670
00:31:12,276 --> 00:31:15,543
If I did not love you and my
country's noble government more

671
00:31:15,543 --> 00:31:19,776
than wife and children, I
should not presume to write you.

672
00:31:19,776 --> 00:31:22,176
I experienced a
great joy at learning

673
00:31:22,176 --> 00:31:24,609
that you contemplate adopting,

674
00:31:24,609 --> 00:31:28,976
announcing the policy
of using negro slaves of rebels

675
00:31:28,976 --> 00:31:33,576
for the purpose of assisting to
suppress this accursed rebellion

676
00:31:33,576 --> 00:31:38,076
and for such service to
free them and their families.

677
00:31:38,076 --> 00:31:42,343
Such a proclamation will infuse
new life and vigor in the hearts

678
00:31:42,343 --> 00:31:46,809
of all truly loyal men who are
discouraged that hitherto they

679
00:31:46,809 --> 00:31:50,676
have not been permitted to
use an instrument so potent

680
00:31:50,676 --> 00:31:52,276
for the nation's welfare."

681
00:31:52,276 --> 00:31:53,276
GATES: What do
you think of that?

682
00:31:53,276 --> 00:31:54,276
Have you ever seen that before?

683
00:31:54,276 --> 00:31:56,076
NORTON: No. God, no.
GATES: It's amazing.

684
00:31:56,076 --> 00:31:58,176
NORTON: Yeah. That is uh,
that is really interesting.

685
00:31:58,176 --> 00:32:00,609
GATES: Yeah. He's saying
you should arm Black men.

686
00:32:00,609 --> 00:32:01,743
NORTON: That's amazing.

687
00:32:01,743 --> 00:32:04,276
GATES: Now, Lincoln would
eventually do this but on

688
00:32:04,276 --> 00:32:07,876
the day he received that letter,
he had not made this decision.

689
00:32:07,876 --> 00:32:09,009
NORTON: And that's in 1862.

690
00:32:09,009 --> 00:32:10,176
GATES: Yes.

691
00:32:10,176 --> 00:32:11,609
For a White man, your
third great grandfather was

692
00:32:11,609 --> 00:32:12,909
very much ahead of his time.

693
00:32:12,909 --> 00:32:15,576
It was a radical thing to arm
Black men to kill White men.

694
00:32:15,576 --> 00:32:19,509
NORTON: "Using slaves of rebels
for the purpose of assisting to

695
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:21,343
suppress this
accursed rebellion."

696
00:32:21,343 --> 00:32:22,943
I mean, that's,
that's pretty unequivocal.

697
00:32:22,943 --> 00:32:24,109
GATES: What's it
like to read the words of

698
00:32:24,109 --> 00:32:26,676
your ancestor writing to
President Abraham Lincoln?

699
00:32:26,676 --> 00:32:27,743
NORTON: He's eloquent.

700
00:32:27,743 --> 00:32:30,243
It's the inverse of like
pride in a child, right?

701
00:32:30,243 --> 00:32:32,576
You want your, more than
anything you want your children

702
00:32:32,576 --> 00:32:34,309
to do the right
thing probably, right,

703
00:32:34,309 --> 00:32:37,543
but it's neat,
in some weird way, you,

704
00:32:37,543 --> 00:32:39,076
you hope your ancestors did

705
00:32:39,076 --> 00:32:41,109
the right thing somewhere
and you can take some kind of

706
00:32:41,109 --> 00:32:42,476
inspiration or pride in it.

707
00:32:42,476 --> 00:32:43,576
GATES: Well.
NORTON: It's incredible.

708
00:32:43,576 --> 00:32:44,609
GATES: I want to show
you one more thing...

709
00:32:44,609 --> 00:32:45,943
NORTON: Okay.
GATES: About your namesake.

710
00:32:45,943 --> 00:32:48,609
Would you please be kind
enough to turn the page?

711
00:32:48,609 --> 00:32:50,376
NORTON: Oh. Look at that.

712
00:32:50,376 --> 00:32:51,743
Is that a portrait of him?

713
00:32:51,743 --> 00:32:52,776
Oh, wow. Amazing.

714
00:32:52,776 --> 00:32:53,976
GATES: Yes.
You've never seen him before?

715
00:32:53,976 --> 00:32:57,176
NORTON: Never. Uh-huh.
GATES: That's Edward.

716
00:32:57,176 --> 00:33:00,176
NORTON: That is amazing.

717
00:33:00,176 --> 00:33:03,776
He, he looks like my,
my dad's dad, um,

718
00:33:03,776 --> 00:33:06,543
but he looks sort
of like, it's really funny.

719
00:33:06,543 --> 00:33:08,576
He looks sort of like
Walter Houston, you know,

720
00:33:08,576 --> 00:33:11,776
the great character actor in 
Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

721
00:33:11,776 --> 00:33:12,843
GATES: I love Walter Huston...

722
00:33:12,843 --> 00:33:14,143
NOROTN: He doesn't
look that distinguished.

723
00:33:14,143 --> 00:33:16,243
He looks, he looks like
he's sort of from the frontier.

724
00:33:16,243 --> 00:33:17,609
I like that.

725
00:33:17,609 --> 00:33:20,143
He's got a little bit of a, of a
miner 49er kind of look to him.

726
00:33:20,143 --> 00:33:21,976
That's great. What a mustache.

727
00:33:24,076 --> 00:33:27,343
GATES: We had one more
surprise for Edward.

728
00:33:27,343 --> 00:33:30,443
He'd grown up hearing that his
father's roots traced deep into

729
00:33:30,443 --> 00:33:34,943
colonial Virginia's past,
and that he was, in fact,

730
00:33:34,943 --> 00:33:38,209
a direct descendant
of Pocahontas,

731
00:33:38,209 --> 00:33:41,243
the Powhatan woman who
married the Virginia settler

732
00:33:41,243 --> 00:33:45,109
John Rolfe, in the
colony's earliest days.

733
00:33:45,809 --> 00:33:48,743
Edward was convinced
that Pocahontas's place on

734
00:33:48,743 --> 00:33:51,209
his family tree
was a family legend,

735
00:33:51,209 --> 00:33:54,876
a product of generations
of wishful thinking.

736
00:33:54,876 --> 00:33:58,709
But it turns out
Edward was wrong.

737
00:33:59,076 --> 00:34:01,409
Pocahontas is indeed
your 12th great grandma.

738
00:34:01,409 --> 00:34:02,909
NORTON: Oh, my God.

739
00:34:02,909 --> 00:34:04,409
(laughs)

740
00:34:04,409 --> 00:34:06,109
GATES: I understand
that was family lore.

741
00:34:06,109 --> 00:34:08,343
Well, it is absolutely true.

742
00:34:08,343 --> 00:34:11,343
NORTON: And how could
you possibly determine that?

743
00:34:11,343 --> 00:34:12,709
GATES: Through the paper trail.

744
00:34:12,709 --> 00:34:13,976
NORTON: It would
have been documented...

745
00:34:13,976 --> 00:34:15,243
GATES: Oh, yeah.

746
00:34:15,243 --> 00:34:16,243
NORTON: They would have a
paper trail of their children?

747
00:34:16,243 --> 00:34:18,143
GATES: Of course,
John Rolfe and Pocahontas

748
00:34:18,143 --> 00:34:21,209
got married on April 5, 1614.

749
00:34:21,209 --> 00:34:24,243
Shakespeare dies in 1616,
just to put this in perspective.

750
00:34:24,243 --> 00:34:27,343
NORTON: Married in North America
or, he had taken her back to...

751
00:34:27,343 --> 00:34:29,576
GATES: No they, in
Jamestown, Virginia, we think.

752
00:34:29,576 --> 00:34:34,309
Pocahontas died
sometime in March 1617

753
00:34:34,309 --> 00:34:36,876
in Gravesend, England
and John Rolfe died

754
00:34:36,876 --> 00:34:38,776
around March 1622...

755
00:34:38,776 --> 00:34:40,709
NORTON: So they
were married in 1614.

756
00:34:40,709 --> 00:34:42,609
GATES: 1614 when
Shakespeare was still alive.

757
00:34:42,609 --> 00:34:44,909
But you have a
direct paper trail,

758
00:34:44,909 --> 00:34:48,443
no doubt about it, connection
to your 12th great-grandmother

759
00:34:48,443 --> 00:34:51,909
and great-grandfather
John Rolfe and Pocahontas.

760
00:34:51,909 --> 00:34:53,109
NORTON: This is about
as far back as you can go.

761
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:54,209
GATES: It's as far
back as you can go.

762
00:34:54,209 --> 00:34:55,309
NORTON: And that's it,
unless you're a Viking.

763
00:34:55,309 --> 00:34:56,676
GATES: Yeah, that's right.

764
00:34:56,676 --> 00:34:58,609
NORTON: It just makes
you realize what a, what a,

765
00:34:58,609 --> 00:35:04,276
what a small, you know, piece of
the whole human story you are.

766
00:35:07,009 --> 00:35:09,409
GATES: We'd already traced
Julia Roberts' maternal roots

767
00:35:09,409 --> 00:35:13,709
back to Sweden, introducing
her to a host of ancestors

768
00:35:13,709 --> 00:35:17,943
whose names had been lost when
her family moved to America.

769
00:35:20,209 --> 00:35:24,109
Now, turning to the paternal
side of Julia's family tree,

770
00:35:24,109 --> 00:35:26,976
we found ourselves
in south-west Georgia,

771
00:35:26,976 --> 00:35:29,576
exploring a name
that had been lost for

772
00:35:29,576 --> 00:35:32,109
a very different reason.

773
00:35:32,109 --> 00:35:35,943
The story begins with
Julia's great-grandfather,

774
00:35:35,943 --> 00:35:39,976
John Roberts, who grew up
on a farm with his mother,

775
00:35:39,976 --> 00:35:42,476
a woman named Rhoda Suttle.

776
00:35:43,043 --> 00:35:44,043
Ever hear that name?

777
00:35:44,043 --> 00:35:45,076
ROBERTS: No.

778
00:35:45,076 --> 00:35:46,176
GATES: Well, I want
to tell you about her.

779
00:35:46,176 --> 00:35:48,176
Would you please turn the page?

780
00:35:49,709 --> 00:35:51,543
ROBERTS: Suttle is not
anything anyone has ever called

781
00:35:51,543 --> 00:35:54,176
anyone in my family, by the way.

782
00:35:54,176 --> 00:35:57,343
GATES: This is the 1880 census
for Douglas County, Georgia.

783
00:35:57,343 --> 00:35:58,509
ROBERTS: Wow.

784
00:35:58,509 --> 00:36:00,076
GATES: There's your
great-grandfather John,

785
00:36:00,076 --> 00:36:01,576
you see him, right?

786
00:36:01,576 --> 00:36:02,709
As a child.

787
00:36:02,709 --> 00:36:03,843
ROBERTS: Whose
two years old here?

788
00:36:03,843 --> 00:36:05,309
GATES: He is
two years old. Uh-huh.

789
00:36:05,309 --> 00:36:08,509
Living with his mother,
your great-great grandmother

790
00:36:08,509 --> 00:36:10,643
Rhoda Suttle Roberts. Right?

791
00:36:10,643 --> 00:36:12,743
ROBERTS: Right.
GATES: And three brothers.

792
00:36:12,743 --> 00:36:15,943
You notice anyone missing?

793
00:36:15,943 --> 00:36:17,643
ROBERTS: A dad?

794
00:36:17,643 --> 00:36:20,643
GATES: A dad,
the dad is missing.

795
00:36:20,643 --> 00:36:23,809
John's father,
Rhoda's husband isn't there.

796
00:36:23,809 --> 00:36:25,143
Have you ever heard
anything about him?

797
00:36:25,143 --> 00:36:26,909
ROBERTS: No.

798
00:36:27,843 --> 00:36:30,076
GATES: Digging into
Georgia's county archives,

799
00:36:30,076 --> 00:36:33,576
we discovered that
sometime in the 1850s,

800
00:36:33,576 --> 00:36:36,943
Rhoda married a man
named Willis Roberts.

801
00:36:36,943 --> 00:36:40,276
Julia carries Willis' last name,

802
00:36:40,276 --> 00:36:43,709
but Willis passed away in 1864,

803
00:36:43,709 --> 00:36:46,676
over a decade
before Rhoda gave birth to

804
00:36:46,676 --> 00:36:49,343
Julia's great-grandfather, John,

805
00:36:49,343 --> 00:36:53,109
leading to an
inescapable conclusion.

806
00:36:54,209 --> 00:36:56,976
Julia, Willis Roberts could not

807
00:36:56,976 --> 00:36:59,543
possibly be your
great-great grandfather.

808
00:36:59,543 --> 00:37:01,009
He was dead.

809
00:37:01,009 --> 00:37:02,476
ROBERTS: But, oh.

810
00:37:02,476 --> 00:37:04,876
Wait, but am I not a Roberts?

811
00:37:04,876 --> 00:37:07,376
GATES: Well, let's
see what we found.

812
00:37:07,376 --> 00:37:10,009
We scoured Douglas County
looking for any record that

813
00:37:10,009 --> 00:37:14,609
named John's father and
we found absolutely nothing.

814
00:37:14,609 --> 00:37:15,876
ROBERTS: Wow.

815
00:37:15,876 --> 00:37:18,409
GATES: Douglas County didn't
issue birth certificates in 1878

816
00:37:18,409 --> 00:37:22,009
and marriage certificates didn't
name parents' names at the time.

817
00:37:22,009 --> 00:37:27,409
Fortunately, we had
another tool, and that was DNA.

818
00:37:27,409 --> 00:37:29,143
ROBERTS: Wow.

819
00:37:30,109 --> 00:37:32,809
GATES: Julia and one of
her father's first cousins,

820
00:37:32,809 --> 00:37:35,343
a fellow
descendant of John Roberts,

821
00:37:35,343 --> 00:37:37,543
both agreed to take DNA tests.

822
00:37:37,543 --> 00:37:39,976
We then compared
their results to people

823
00:37:39,976 --> 00:37:42,509
in publicly-available databases,

824
00:37:42,509 --> 00:37:44,943
searching for matches,

825
00:37:44,943 --> 00:37:48,876
and looking to see how those
matches might be connected,

826
00:37:48,876 --> 00:37:51,743
hoping to identify
John's father through

827
00:37:51,743 --> 00:37:54,243
the DNA of his descendants.

828
00:37:55,043 --> 00:37:58,909
In the end, we found a
cluster of matches that

829
00:37:58,909 --> 00:38:02,643
tie Julia and her
cousin to one man.

830
00:38:04,309 --> 00:38:07,809
ROBERTS:
"Henry McDonald Mitchell Jr."

831
00:38:07,809 --> 00:38:09,909
GATES: You just read the name of

832
00:38:09,909 --> 00:38:13,476
your biological
great-great grandfather.

833
00:38:13,476 --> 00:38:17,243
ROBERTS: So, we're Mitchells?
GATES: You're Julia Mitchell.

834
00:38:19,809 --> 00:38:22,209
You are not a
Roberts biologically.

835
00:38:22,209 --> 00:38:27,576
ROBERTS: Wow. That is crazy.

836
00:38:28,609 --> 00:38:30,876
I, I bet nobody knew.

837
00:38:30,876 --> 00:38:33,209
GATES: Well, everybody
near that farm knew because

838
00:38:33,209 --> 00:38:35,476
her husband wasn't there and
she was still having babies.

839
00:38:35,476 --> 00:38:41,209
ROBERTS: Wow. Is my, is
my head on straight still?

840
00:38:41,209 --> 00:38:43,009
Am I facing you?

841
00:38:45,276 --> 00:38:48,343
GATES: There's no way to
tell if Rhoda ever told John

842
00:38:48,343 --> 00:38:50,943
the identity of his father.

843
00:38:50,943 --> 00:38:53,876
But we found a reason to
think that she might have

844
00:38:53,876 --> 00:38:56,109
kept it a secret.

845
00:38:56,109 --> 00:38:59,476
In the 1880 census,
recorded when John was two,

846
00:38:59,476 --> 00:39:02,543
his biological
father Henry Mitchell

847
00:39:02,543 --> 00:39:05,276
is living with his wife,

848
00:39:05,276 --> 00:39:09,843
a woman named Sarah,
along with their six children.

849
00:39:10,943 --> 00:39:13,343
And he lived just a
few miles from Rhoda.

850
00:39:13,343 --> 00:39:15,909
ROBERTS: A few
short miles, it would seem.

851
00:39:15,909 --> 00:39:18,109
(laughs)

852
00:39:18,109 --> 00:39:20,709
GATES: Get this,
according to the same census,

853
00:39:20,709 --> 00:39:23,876
Henry's widowed mother,
Elizabeth Mitchell,

854
00:39:23,876 --> 00:39:28,776
lived just
four households from Rhoda.

855
00:39:28,776 --> 00:39:30,643
ROBERTS: Wow.

856
00:39:30,643 --> 00:39:32,276
GATES: What's it
like to see that?

857
00:39:32,276 --> 00:39:35,809
Henry was married but
his mother lived close to

858
00:39:35,809 --> 00:39:38,643
your great-great-grandmother.

859
00:39:39,676 --> 00:39:41,643
So, he would go see his
mother like a good boy.

860
00:39:41,643 --> 00:39:42,943
ROBERTS: Gosh.

861
00:39:42,943 --> 00:39:44,143
And Sarah was probably saying,

862
00:39:44,143 --> 00:39:45,843
"Aww, you're going
to go see your mom?

863
00:39:45,843 --> 00:39:48,909
That's so sweet." Wow.

864
00:39:48,909 --> 00:39:50,376
GATES: What are
you feeling right now,

865
00:39:50,376 --> 00:39:51,876
Mrs. Mitchell,
I mean, Mrs. Roberts?

866
00:39:51,876 --> 00:39:54,343
(laughter)

867
00:39:54,343 --> 00:39:55,509
ROBERTS: I mean, it's, you know,

868
00:39:55,509 --> 00:39:59,543
on the one hand, truly,
my mind is blown.

869
00:39:59,543 --> 00:40:05,343
Um, and it is fascinating,

870
00:40:05,343 --> 00:40:07,109
and on the other hand, there's,

871
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:12,343
you know, part of
me that when I'm calmer,

872
00:40:12,343 --> 00:40:16,509
you know, can still wrap
my arms around the idea that,

873
00:40:16,509 --> 00:40:19,976
you know, that my
family is my family.

874
00:40:19,976 --> 00:40:21,243
GATES: Of course.

875
00:40:21,243 --> 00:40:23,143
ROBERTS: And I do
prefer the name Roberts.

876
00:40:23,143 --> 00:40:24,376
(laughter).

877
00:40:24,376 --> 00:40:26,276
GATES: That is your name.

878
00:40:26,276 --> 00:40:29,476
ROBERTS: Um, yeah.

879
00:40:29,476 --> 00:40:35,076
It's, this was a very
unexpected turn, Doctor.

880
00:40:38,143 --> 00:40:40,976
GATES: Regrettably, it
seems that Henry Mitchell was

881
00:40:40,976 --> 00:40:44,909
a mysterious man in
more ways than one.

882
00:40:44,909 --> 00:40:49,443
Sometime after 1880, he
moved from Georgia to Arkansas,

883
00:40:49,443 --> 00:40:51,809
where he essentially disappeared

884
00:40:51,809 --> 00:40:54,243
from the paper trail.

885
00:40:54,576 --> 00:40:58,976
But Henry's roots, Julia's
newfound Mitchell ancestry,

886
00:40:58,976 --> 00:41:00,743
were another matter.

887
00:41:00,743 --> 00:41:03,043
They can be traced
deep into the past,

888
00:41:03,043 --> 00:41:07,643
all the way back to
colonial Virginia in the 1700s.

889
00:41:09,843 --> 00:41:12,943
One side of your
family immigrates in 1887,

890
00:41:12,943 --> 00:41:15,676
the other side has
been here since before

891
00:41:15,676 --> 00:41:17,043
America was America.

892
00:41:17,043 --> 00:41:18,343
ROBERTS: Wow.

893
00:41:18,343 --> 00:41:20,309
GATES: You have
a deep purchase on

894
00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:22,276
the United States of America.

895
00:41:22,276 --> 00:41:24,143
ROBERTS: I like those words.
GATES: Mm-hmm.

896
00:41:24,143 --> 00:41:27,043
ROBERTS: I mean, it's just
so nice to know something.

897
00:41:27,043 --> 00:41:28,309
GATES: Mm-hmm.

898
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:33,609
ROBERTS: I mean, to know,
it's not like I knew,

899
00:41:33,609 --> 00:41:34,776
I thought I knew everything and

900
00:41:34,776 --> 00:41:35,909
you're telling me
I knew everything.

901
00:41:35,909 --> 00:41:37,209
I didn't know anything.

902
00:41:37,209 --> 00:41:38,309
GATES: Right.

903
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:40,809
ROBERTS: And even though
what you're telling me is

904
00:41:40,809 --> 00:41:47,109
a wild ride, it's, knowledge
is power and connection.

905
00:41:49,543 --> 00:41:52,309
GATES: I had one
more story for Julia,

906
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:55,043
a story that would add
another layer of complexity

907
00:41:55,043 --> 00:41:57,809
to her new family tree.

908
00:41:58,309 --> 00:42:01,043
Moving back on her
father's mother's line,

909
00:42:01,043 --> 00:42:03,509
we came to Julia's
fourth great-grandfather,

910
00:42:03,509 --> 00:42:06,609
a man named Edward Townsend.

911
00:42:07,843 --> 00:42:11,643
We found Edward in the
1850 census living in Georgia,

912
00:42:11,643 --> 00:42:15,609
owning a farm of
more than 2,000 acres.

913
00:42:15,609 --> 00:42:18,409
But that wasn't all he owned.

914
00:42:19,676 --> 00:42:22,276
ROBERTS: "Slaves,
one female, 33 years old,

915
00:42:22,276 --> 00:42:26,043
one female, 20 years old,
one female, 17 years old,

916
00:42:26,043 --> 00:42:29,709
one female, 13 years old,
one female, 11 years old,

917
00:42:29,709 --> 00:42:32,743
one female, eight years old,
one male, six years old."

918
00:42:32,743 --> 00:42:34,376
GATES: Now, you're a Southerner.

919
00:42:34,376 --> 00:42:37,143
Did you ever consider the
possibility that your ancestor

920
00:42:37,143 --> 00:42:40,609
or any of your ancestors could
have owned enslaved people?

921
00:42:40,609 --> 00:42:45,443
ROBERTS: Yes, yeah, you
have to figure if you are from

922
00:42:45,443 --> 00:42:48,343
the South, you're on one
side of it or the other.

923
00:42:48,343 --> 00:42:49,509
GATES: Right.

924
00:42:49,509 --> 00:42:51,376
And some of the people
enslaved were just children.

925
00:42:51,376 --> 00:42:53,543
There are three teenagers,
an eight-year-old boy and

926
00:42:53,543 --> 00:42:54,943
a six-year-old boy.

927
00:42:54,943 --> 00:42:57,776
ROBERTS: And they must be the
children of the older women.

928
00:42:57,776 --> 00:42:59,376
GATES: You got it.
ROBERTS: Mm-hmm.

929
00:42:59,376 --> 00:43:02,343
GATES: And we don't know
who their fathers were or

930
00:43:02,343 --> 00:43:03,909
who their father was.

931
00:43:03,909 --> 00:43:05,609
ROBERTS: That's sad.
GATES: Yeah.

932
00:43:05,609 --> 00:43:07,843
ROBERTS: I mean, it
just seems very typical of

933
00:43:07,843 --> 00:43:13,509
that time, unfortunately,
and you know, something to know

934
00:43:13,509 --> 00:43:18,476
and to, um, uh,

935
00:43:18,476 --> 00:43:20,909
understand and accept,

936
00:43:20,909 --> 00:43:26,509
and you know, not shy away from.

937
00:43:26,509 --> 00:43:30,609
You can't turn your back on
history even when you become

938
00:43:30,609 --> 00:43:32,576
a part of it in a way
that doesn't align with

939
00:43:32,576 --> 00:43:35,743
your personal compass.

940
00:43:37,476 --> 00:43:39,843
GATES: Turning from
Julia back to Edward Norton,

941
00:43:39,843 --> 00:43:44,743
we discovered that he, too, had
slave-owners in his family tree.

942
00:43:45,276 --> 00:43:48,809
The 1850 census for
North Carolina revealed that

943
00:43:48,809 --> 00:43:53,009
his third great-grandfather,
a man named John Winstead,

944
00:43:53,009 --> 00:43:56,643
held seven
human beings in bondage.

945
00:43:57,143 --> 00:44:01,976
NORTON: So, this
is a 55-year-old man,

946
00:44:01,976 --> 00:44:05,143
a 37-year-old woman and,

947
00:44:05,143 --> 00:44:09,043
and five girls ten,
nine, eight, six and four.

948
00:44:09,043 --> 00:44:11,476
GATES: That's right
and he owned them.

949
00:44:11,476 --> 00:44:13,043
What's it like to see that?

950
00:44:13,043 --> 00:44:14,443
NORTON: Like,
the short answer is

951
00:44:14,443 --> 00:44:16,476
these things are uncomfortable.

952
00:44:16,476 --> 00:44:18,609
Like, and you should be
uncomfortable with them.

953
00:44:18,609 --> 00:44:20,376
Like everybody should
be uncomfortable with it.

954
00:44:20,376 --> 00:44:23,709
It's, whether it, you know,
it doesn't, it doesn't know...

955
00:44:23,709 --> 00:44:26,509
It's not a judgment on,
on you in your own life

956
00:44:26,509 --> 00:44:28,243
but it's a judgment on the,

957
00:44:28,243 --> 00:44:31,743
it's a judgment on the
history of this country and it,

958
00:44:31,743 --> 00:44:34,476
and it, and it needs to be
acknowledged first and foremost,

959
00:44:34,476 --> 00:44:35,876
and then, it needs
to be contended with.

960
00:44:35,876 --> 00:44:37,109
GATES: Absolutely.

961
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:40,409
NORTON: I mean when you go
away from census counts and,

962
00:44:40,409 --> 00:44:44,243
and you personalize things,
you're talking about possibly

963
00:44:44,243 --> 00:44:48,209
a husband and wife
with five girls and the,

964
00:44:48,209 --> 00:44:50,809
and these girls are slaves,
you know, born into slavery.

965
00:44:50,809 --> 00:44:52,109
It's just like, you know.

966
00:44:52,109 --> 00:44:55,276
GATES: And born into slavery and
in slavery and in perpetuity.

967
00:44:55,276 --> 00:44:56,443
NORTON: Yeah.

968
00:44:56,443 --> 00:45:00,709
It's, you know,
it's again, when you read,

969
00:45:00,709 --> 00:45:03,743
"Slave age eight,"
you want to die.

970
00:45:04,976 --> 00:45:07,643
GATES: John Winstead embodies
one of the ugliest chapters

971
00:45:07,643 --> 00:45:09,876
in American history.

972
00:45:09,876 --> 00:45:14,143
But as we pressed on,
we soon saw another,

973
00:45:14,143 --> 00:45:17,409
far nobler side of
that history emerge on this

974
00:45:17,409 --> 00:45:20,543
same branch of
Edward's family tree.

975
00:45:21,976 --> 00:45:24,809
The story begins with Edward's
sixth great-grandfather,

976
00:45:24,809 --> 00:45:29,243
Moses Walker, a man who was
willing to risk his life for

977
00:45:29,243 --> 00:45:31,976
our country at its inception.

978
00:45:33,743 --> 00:45:37,009
NORTON: "Moses Walker, private.

979
00:45:37,009 --> 00:45:41,443
McRree's Company.
Sixth North Carolina Regiment.

980
00:45:41,443 --> 00:45:45,676
Date of enlistment,
October 1777.

981
00:45:45,676 --> 00:45:49,276
Omitted February 1778."

982
00:45:49,276 --> 00:45:50,809
GATES: So, you
know what this means?

983
00:45:50,809 --> 00:45:54,109
NORTON: Uh, served
in the Continental Army?

984
00:45:54,109 --> 00:45:55,976
GATES: Yeah, you, you
descend from a patriot.

985
00:45:55,976 --> 00:45:59,209
Moses Walker served in
the Continental Army during

986
00:45:59,209 --> 00:46:00,976
the American Revolution.

987
00:46:00,976 --> 00:46:04,376
We believe that Moses
was born around 1730 either

988
00:46:04,376 --> 00:46:06,276
in Virginia or North Carolina,

989
00:46:06,276 --> 00:46:09,843
and he would have been in
his 40s when he enlisted.

990
00:46:09,843 --> 00:46:10,909
NORTON: That's interesting.

991
00:46:10,909 --> 00:46:12,876
GATES: And that is his
company's muster roll.

992
00:46:12,876 --> 00:46:15,109
What's it like to
see that from 1777?

993
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:16,243
NORTON: Unbelievable.

994
00:46:16,243 --> 00:46:18,943
I mean, I got to
be honest, like,

995
00:46:18,943 --> 00:46:22,743
one of the things that amazes me
is that they were making these

996
00:46:22,743 --> 00:46:26,276
kinds of records like in
that kind of a tumultuous time.

997
00:46:26,276 --> 00:46:28,876
GATES: A, that they were
making the record and

998
00:46:28,876 --> 00:46:30,276
B, that the
record is still here.

999
00:46:30,276 --> 00:46:35,409
NORTON: Yeah. I mean, a,
a muster roll from 1777,

1000
00:46:35,409 --> 00:46:38,743
like as they're scrambling
to get people enlisted.

1001
00:46:38,743 --> 00:46:39,909
It's wild.

1002
00:46:39,909 --> 00:46:41,709
GATES: Do you feel
any kinship here, Edward?

1003
00:46:41,709 --> 00:46:47,776
NORTON: Yeah. I mean, I think,
I think, uh, the, again,

1004
00:46:47,776 --> 00:46:53,976
it's just, um, it,
there's a certain, uh...

1005
00:46:55,043 --> 00:46:57,343
You can't not get a
warm feeling at any,

1006
00:46:57,343 --> 00:46:59,943
whether it's your ancestor or
not like displaying a certain

1007
00:46:59,943 --> 00:47:02,743
kind of a courage
on and conviction on

1008
00:47:02,743 --> 00:47:04,909
behalf of someone else.

1009
00:47:06,176 --> 00:47:10,876
GATES: Moses volunteered
in October of 1777 and

1010
00:47:10,876 --> 00:47:13,943
served during a very
important moment in the war.

1011
00:47:15,343 --> 00:47:17,709
His regiment fought
under George Washington

1012
00:47:17,709 --> 00:47:20,176
at the battle of Germantown,

1013
00:47:20,176 --> 00:47:24,309
a patriot defeat on
the outskirts of Philadelphia,

1014
00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:27,243
and then spent that
winter with the colonial forces

1015
00:47:27,243 --> 00:47:32,009
as they, famously, regrouped
in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.

1016
00:47:32,843 --> 00:47:34,476
And we believe
that he was there.

1017
00:47:34,476 --> 00:47:35,843
Did you ever think you
might have an ancestor

1018
00:47:35,843 --> 00:47:37,743
who was in
George Washington's army?

1019
00:47:37,743 --> 00:47:41,276
NORTON: No. But I had never
heard anything about this.

1020
00:47:41,276 --> 00:47:43,143
And also, I noticed one
of my reactions to that

1021
00:47:43,143 --> 00:47:48,209
is you have this
tendency partly because

1022
00:47:48,209 --> 00:47:51,276
of the sort of the, the,
the negative connotations of

1023
00:47:51,276 --> 00:47:53,543
the Southern states in the
Civil War and the Confederacy

1024
00:47:53,543 --> 00:47:56,409
and all these things,
you, you tend to ascribe

1025
00:47:56,409 --> 00:47:57,943
the Revolutionary War
to the Northeast,

1026
00:47:57,943 --> 00:47:59,309
GATES: Oh, right. That's true.

1027
00:47:59,309 --> 00:48:01,709
NORTON: And you forget, this is
like a North Carolina regiment

1028
00:48:01,709 --> 00:48:03,709
in the Revolutionary War
and that sort of blows my mind.

1029
00:48:03,709 --> 00:48:05,009
GATES: There were 13 colonies.

1030
00:48:05,009 --> 00:48:08,543
NORTON: I know and you, but
you, you, you forget that they

1031
00:48:08,543 --> 00:48:10,909
all came together and sent
their reps, and when they went

1032
00:48:10,909 --> 00:48:14,943
at this, people went all the way
from North Carolina in 1777 to

1033
00:48:14,943 --> 00:48:16,376
go fight with George Washington?

1034
00:48:16,376 --> 00:48:17,476
I mean, that is unbelievable.

1035
00:48:17,476 --> 00:48:18,709
GATES: Right.
It is unbelievable.

1036
00:48:18,709 --> 00:48:19,576
NORTON: Think about the
journey just to get up there.

1037
00:48:19,576 --> 00:48:20,576
I'm serious.

1038
00:48:20,576 --> 00:48:23,043
Like, 1777 to go
from North Carolina to

1039
00:48:23,043 --> 00:48:24,409
Philadelphia by horse.

1040
00:48:24,409 --> 00:48:26,309
GATES: Yeah. Or walking.
NORTON: Yeah.

1041
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:28,943
I mean, I mean,
that is, that's just unreal.

1042
00:48:30,876 --> 00:48:33,043
GATES: Moving back
three more generations,

1043
00:48:33,043 --> 00:48:37,176
we encountered a man who did
something even more, "Unreal."

1044
00:48:38,609 --> 00:48:40,609
Edward's
ninth-great-grandfather,

1045
00:48:40,609 --> 00:48:44,243
Daniel Winstead, was
born in Chichester, England

1046
00:48:44,243 --> 00:48:46,776
around 1650.

1047
00:48:46,776 --> 00:48:52,776
We found him in the archives
of colonial Virginia in 1671,

1048
00:48:52,776 --> 00:48:57,676
paying 1,000 pounds of
tobacco for 50 acres of land.

1049
00:48:57,676 --> 00:49:00,276
Meaning that as a young man,

1050
00:49:00,276 --> 00:49:02,843
Daniel left his
home behind forever

1051
00:49:02,843 --> 00:49:05,443
and crossed the Atlantic.

1052
00:49:06,709 --> 00:49:09,509
So, this is your original,
immigrant ancestor on that

1053
00:49:09,509 --> 00:49:11,176
branch of your family tree.

1054
00:49:11,176 --> 00:49:14,509
NORTON: Wow. And came
to Virginia, and then,

1055
00:49:14,509 --> 00:49:16,843
bout some, sold some
tobacco for some land.

1056
00:49:16,843 --> 00:49:18,476
GATES: You got it.
NORTON: Fascinating.

1057
00:49:18,476 --> 00:49:21,676
What made that guy
leave then, you know, I mean...

1058
00:49:21,676 --> 00:49:22,876
GATES: Yeah, well he wasn't...

1059
00:49:22,876 --> 00:49:25,176
NORTON: For the absolute
wilderness of North America?

1060
00:49:25,176 --> 00:49:27,143
GATES: Well, he wasn't in
line to inherit Downton Abbey.

1061
00:49:27,143 --> 00:49:29,409
NORTON: That,
well that's for sure.

1062
00:49:29,409 --> 00:49:31,609
They probably, the probably
asked him to clean up Stonehenge

1063
00:49:31,609 --> 00:49:33,676
one too many times and
he said, "I'm out of here."

1064
00:49:33,676 --> 00:49:35,643
(laughter)

1065
00:49:37,009 --> 00:49:39,509
GATES: Daniel Winstead is
representative of multiple

1066
00:49:39,509 --> 00:49:41,743
ancestors on Edward's tree.

1067
00:49:41,743 --> 00:49:46,276
All told, we found more than
a dozen of his relatives who

1068
00:49:46,276 --> 00:49:48,943
immigrated from
England to America,

1069
00:49:48,943 --> 00:49:52,576
but while Edward's roots
are predominantly English,

1070
00:49:52,576 --> 00:49:54,709
they are not exclusively so.

1071
00:49:54,709 --> 00:49:57,976
We were also able to trace
him back to France, Germany,

1072
00:49:57,976 --> 00:49:59,576
and Belgium.

1073
00:49:59,576 --> 00:50:01,809
And his DNA suggests
he has significant

1074
00:50:01,809 --> 00:50:04,776
Scottish ancestry as well.

1075
00:50:04,776 --> 00:50:09,109
Surveying it all, Edward
was struck by a larger lesson.

1076
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:12,509
NORTON: It's like wait a second.
Everybody was an immigrant.

1077
00:50:12,509 --> 00:50:15,143
Everybody went
through the experience.

1078
00:50:15,143 --> 00:50:17,876
Everybody's ancestors
came from somewhere.

1079
00:50:17,876 --> 00:50:19,243
They came from
somewhere for some reason.

1080
00:50:19,243 --> 00:50:20,543
GATES: Everybody.

1081
00:50:20,543 --> 00:50:22,676
NORTON: And, and all you got to
do is do this a few rows back

1082
00:50:22,676 --> 00:50:24,209
and everybody's
got the same story.

1083
00:50:24,209 --> 00:50:25,676
GATES: We're a nation
of immigrants. Everybody.

1084
00:50:25,676 --> 00:50:27,943
NORTON: And it's like why
isn't that, why that doesn't

1085
00:50:27,943 --> 00:50:33,443
bind us up in, in a, in a,
you know, in a sense of pride.

1086
00:50:33,443 --> 00:50:35,509
GATES: Yeah and everybody
came here fleeing something.

1087
00:50:35,509 --> 00:50:37,476
NORTON: Yeah, it's the
energy of the country.

1088
00:50:38,743 --> 00:50:41,809
GATES: The paper trail had now
run out for each of my guests.

1089
00:50:41,809 --> 00:50:43,776
ROBERTS: Wow.

1090
00:50:43,776 --> 00:50:45,009
(gasps).

1091
00:50:45,009 --> 00:50:47,376
Oh, look at everybody.

1092
00:50:47,376 --> 00:50:50,409
GATES: It was time to
unfurl their full family trees.

1093
00:50:50,409 --> 00:50:51,976
These are all of
the ancestors...

1094
00:50:51,976 --> 00:50:53,276
NORTON: Wow!

1095
00:50:53,276 --> 00:50:56,243
GATES: That we uncovered on
all lines of your family tree.

1096
00:50:56,243 --> 00:50:57,843
NORTON: Wow.

1097
00:50:57,843 --> 00:51:00,609
GATES: And then see
what DNA could tell us about

1098
00:51:00,609 --> 00:51:01,843
their deeper roots.

1099
00:51:01,843 --> 00:51:04,376
As it turns out,
Julia and Edward were in

1100
00:51:04,376 --> 00:51:06,743
for a shared surprise.

1101
00:51:06,743 --> 00:51:09,643
When we compared their DNA to
that of everyone else who's ever

1102
00:51:09,643 --> 00:51:13,643
been in the series, we
found significant matches.

1103
00:51:13,643 --> 00:51:16,343
Evidence of a distant
cousin for each of them.

1104
00:51:16,343 --> 00:51:19,309
Revealing a hidden
relationship that neither

1105
00:51:19,309 --> 00:51:22,176
had ever imagined possible.

1106
00:51:23,076 --> 00:51:24,843
All right. Please turn the page.

1107
00:51:24,843 --> 00:51:27,643
(laughter)

1108
00:51:27,643 --> 00:51:29,509
NORTON: Julia Roberts, everyone.

1109
00:51:29,943 --> 00:51:31,609
ROBERTS: What?

1110
00:51:33,043 --> 00:51:36,209
GATES: Your DNA cousin
is Edward Norton.

1111
00:51:36,709 --> 00:51:38,243
Have you ever worked with Ed?

1112
00:51:38,243 --> 00:51:39,443
ROBERTS: No.

1113
00:51:39,443 --> 00:51:41,676
I mean, I've met him but
I've never worked with him.

1114
00:51:41,676 --> 00:51:43,643
GATES: You and Ed share a
long identical stretch of DNA

1115
00:51:43,643 --> 00:51:45,476
on your ninth chromosomes.

1116
00:51:45,476 --> 00:51:47,843
This means that you two
inherited that shared DNA from

1117
00:51:47,843 --> 00:51:50,976
a distant ancestor
somewhere in the thicket of

1118
00:51:50,976 --> 00:51:52,543
that family tree of yours.

1119
00:51:52,543 --> 00:51:53,776
ROBERTS: Wow.

1120
00:51:53,776 --> 00:51:55,543
NORTON: How come I didn't
get the teeth and the smile?

1121
00:51:55,543 --> 00:51:56,709
(laughs)

1122
00:51:56,709 --> 00:51:58,243
GATES: That's the
end of our journey with

1123
00:51:58,243 --> 00:52:00,676
Julia Roberts and Edward Norton.

1124
00:52:00,676 --> 00:52:04,376
Join me next time when we
unlock the secrets of the past

1125
00:52:04,376 --> 00:52:09,076
for new guests on another
episode of
Finding Your Roots.