CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Hello, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you.
Thank you so much. You're very kind. Thank you all for coming,
and, of course, thank you for tuning in at home.
Good evening, everyone. Welcome to The Jonathan Ross Show.
Now, tomorrow sees the start of the World Cup in Qatar, of course.
Football as it's meant to be played,
in 30-degrees heat in November in a desert.
Who planned this World Cup? Liz Truss?
LAUGHTER I mean, it's a...
Shall we start by saying who's on the show tonight?
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE OK.
He's the biggest thing to come out of Southampton since The Titanic.
It's the king of British garage and R&B,
Craig David, ladies and gentlemen! Craig, how lovely to have you back.
She's Canadian comedy royalty.
It's the delightfully uncompromising and very, very funny Katherine Ryan.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Lovely to have you, Katherine.
One of the stars of Strictly Come Dancing,
also Dancing On Ice, The Greatest Dancer,
and Let's Dance - I think you see there's a theme there.
It's the wonderful Oti Mabuse! CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Oti.
Also with us this evening, an American acting legend
who you know most recently from Stranger Things.
It's Papa himself - Matthew Modine! CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Papa.
Plus we have a rising star of stand-up,
who took this year's Edinburgh Festival by storm.
I'm delighted he's on the show. The hilarious Josh Jones!
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Hi!
And as if that weren't enough, we've got great music tonight.
It's a bad that are fresh from their number one debut album.
They've had five Grammy nominations.
I love them, I love their music, I love their name. It's Wet Leg!
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Wet Leg in all their glory. OK, so, just before that,
a video that's captured everyone's attention this week.
I dunno if you've seen it. If you haven't, you'll enjoy it.
It's a Kenyan newsreader who is trying to do a live broadcast
under some very difficult circumstances. Take a look at this.
Human actions are destroying habitats,
decimating our entire ecosystem, and disrupting the circle of life.
And with the rise in drought cases,
it is up to us to be guardians of our own natural world,
save our wild species, and provide a home...
HE LAUGHS
APPLAUSE
Shall we get my first guests out, ladies and gentlemen?
Why don't we? Here they are, it's Oti Mabuse and Katherine Ryan.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Oti! There's food now!
Hello! Great to see you.
Hello. Lovely to see you.
Hi. Wow! Look at the sparkle!
This is proper glam this evening.
We have coordinated. We have.
You look amazing, both of you. Thank you.
I've worked with you both of you, and I love it working with you.
You're both lovely to work with.
But I notice, obviously, you being a professional dancer,
and I've done this, people often do ask you
to show them a couple of moves, to do something... Oh, my gosh.
Does that happen all the time?
People always want you to dance when they meet you?
Yes. The worst is when I'm drunk, and they're drunk, too,
and we're in Ibiza. That is...
When you're, like... wavy! Yeah.
How wavy do you get, Oti? Like...
SHE CHUCKLES
Like... Like a tidal wave! Yeah.
And the tide, and they're like,
"Come on, Oti! Dance a little bit for us!"
And I just go, "No!" No.
That's it because, like, I'm not myself, you know?
So you don't do it? No. So you don't...
But you do it when you're sober?
No. LAUGHTER
I don't do it! I just...
I just smile at you, but my smile kind of goes, "No."
But you showed me some dance moves last time we met.
You were very generous. Yes! Shall we do it again? No!
Ladies and gentlemen, Jonathan Ross is gonna twerk for us!
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Yeah!
No. I think you really don't want to see that.
I do. I do.
You kind of... You know, you've kind of seen it already.
RHYTHMIC CLAPPING Jonathan, Jonathan!
AUDIENCE: Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan!
Yay! CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
OK. Was that... was that good? That was very good.
But you showed me some proper dance routine moves like this.
Oh, yes, we did... And it's really quite unpleasant, dancing.
What do you mean? The way you do it.
Because it's not fun. You were... You were... bullying,
you were, I would say, quite aggressive.
I would say I was very open, I was very honest, and I was very strict.
Yeah, that's the... And I wanted what I wanted,
and you gave me what I wanted, and you looked good.
But, no, because it's very uncomfortable, those dances,
and you watch Strictly and think, "Don't they look beautiful?
"Doesn't it look elegant?"
But you realise they're probably screaming in pain
because the arms have to go where they shouldn't be long,
and it's all that weird...
The stomach in, and the chest in, as well.
Yes, and then we have professional dancers.
We have this talent
where we actually can speak without moving our mouths,
so we go "Smile!"
Yeah. "Look like you're enjoying it!"
Wow! But, yeah. Why do you think so smiley?
I'm, like, shouting at them all the time.
If you do that again, smile, and we have Katherine speaking,
that would work just as well. It's like a ventriloquist act.
I can do it, too. Smile! Looks like you're enjoying yourself!
I use it during sex. LAUGHTER
Katherine, you've got another baby on the way...
Yeah. ..so congratulations.
This is your third? Thank you. APPLAUSE
I'm the sacred vessel.
LAUGHTER And, so, third baby.
You're ready for it, you've got the house ready, you're all sorted,
and I believe you're thinking of having the baby at home?
Oh, yeah. I was born ready, Jonathan,
and I'm very good at having babies quickly.
Too good. I nearly had my 13-year-old daughter in a minicab,
which young people won't know.
It's like Uber without a satnav,
without a steering wheel, or a CRB check.
It's a random vehicle driven by a local criminal.
Yeah. LAUGHTER
And then...
for my son Fred, who's 17 months now,
we booked in at this fancy London hospital,
where Princess Diana had her babies,
where Kate Middleton had her babies... I know the one.
..where Meghan Markle could have had her babies, but she didn't.
Yes. LAUGHTER
She was busy booking 15 interviews about privacy that day. So, then...
AUDIENCE EXCLAIMS AND LAUGHS
I like her a lot! I like her a lot.
Yeah. But, erm...
I booked in there, but in the end,
the baby came so quickly that he was nearly born in the car.
My husband nearly had to deliver him.
We were only at the hospital for nine minutes.
So, really, then... No. Yeah.
..you might as well have it at home. So I might as well have it at home.
But my husband's not as completely on board.
Like, he's a little bit squeamish, and I've told him,
"I can talk you through it. It's gonna be fine."
LAUGHTER Katherine's got a book out.
It came out a while ago, but it's just out now in paperback.
If you haven't seen it or read it, it's a fabulous read
because I think you're genuinely very gifted,
very funny, very talented writer.
It's called The Audacity,
and it's kind of about you and about your life,
without being an autobiography as such.
Mm-hm. Yeah, it's sort of a guide to live your life audaciously,
peacefully, with gratitude and kindness,
but not to really focus too much on what other people think
cos sometimes, too much is just enough.
And is that how people are with you? They think that too much is enough,
or do they sometimes think too much is too much?
I think people feel that too much is too much with me,
but that could be a cultural misunderstanding.
I'm with you. Yeah.
You think it's your Canadian-ness?
I think so, because I'm very kind, but I'm straightforward.
I don't beat around the bush.
You know how you guys just like to talk about the weather, and...
if you don't like someone, you're still polite to them,
like, everyone's like, "Welcome, Matt Hancock." All right.
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE
D'you know what I mean? Yeah. Like...
There is that. I love the...
You talk about your childhood in there a lot, growing up in Canada,
and you were teased a bit when you were younger for your appearance.
Yeah. I was... I was odd in both behaviour and in looks.
I was very awkward-looking, and then, also,
I had orthodontics where my jaw was pushed out,
so I had a massive gap between my teeth,
and my parents were very humble and frugal,
and my mum had already purchased
my new autumn jacket to start high school,
but it was from The Gap,
and it said "Gap" in branding across the back.
So you had a gap at the front and a gap at the back? Yeah. Aw!
It was, like, a bull's-eye, and this is back when bullying was cool.
LAUGHTER
So I had a hard time, but it was very formative.
Did you have a nickname at school?
Did they give you a nickname, unkind or otherwise?
They were very creative. The Gap. OK. OK.
They'd be so nasty, like, "Oh, do you floss with a brick?"
Stuff like that.
That was a pretty good joke, actually, a good gag.
I'll remember that for later. What I like is you said that,
and a lot of people just laughed at it. Yeah.
You know what is... In a very different way,
Oti's been looking back at her childhood recently,
because Oti has a documentary called Oti Mabuse: My South Africa.
It's on iPlayer now, so you can watch it now,
and this was you journeying back to the place of your childhood?
Yes, so, this is basically me going back to South Africa.
I think a lot of the time with Strictly professionals,
people see us, and it's all glamorous,
and we're teaching celebs, and then we're giving our hardest,
we're working ten to ten, but people don't really know where we're from,
and I was really lucky that the BBC were like,
"We wanna know your story because it sounds incredible."
And so we went on a journey of going back to South Africa,
and because of lockdown and everything,
I hadn't been home in about three years,
so it was me seeing South Africa as the new South Africa.
Had things changed? Were things worse? Were things...
difficult still?
And we touch, of course, on Apartheid.
Apartheid ended just before you were born,
but the effects would've still been there.
No, it ended after I was born. After you were born?
Yes. So, I was born in 1990, and Mandela was released in 1990,
and then Apartheid ended in 1994.
And so the effects were everywhere still, I guess?
Yeah, well, so, we thought, I guess, because of the dancing,
we felt really protected.
So, my mum was trying to keep us off of the street,
make sure that we weren't running away with the boys,
or, like, into drugs or anything like that,
so she gave us the dance school, which was our safety net.
This is a really lovely clip, I think,
cos this is you with your mum... Oh, yeah.
..going back to where you first started learning to dance.
Oh, yeah. Lovely clip. Look at this.
When I think where I'm dancing today,
in front of millions and thousands of people.
These tiles used to move.
They would move when you did a cha-cha.
They would move when you did a jive.
And there was dust, and we'd have to be sweep before and after.
Let's do it together.
Stomach in, chest out.
Yeah... Yeah! THEY LAUGH
As much as we can pull our stomachs in!
And then, one, two, three, cha-cha.
One, two, three, cha-cha.
Who is the girl, who's the boy?
It doesn't matter. Yeah.
It doesn't matter. Fine, fine, I'm going.
Yay.
Ay! Other way!
Hey! Spot turn, hey-up! Ay!
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Your mum knows all the moves.
Yes, she does. She's so sweet.
She's never, ever danced before, but she loved it so much
that she put us into it
and she got people from outside all over
to come in and train us.
You can see, halfway through the clip,
she gets bored and she hates TV. She's literally like,
"Why am I here? Stop making me dance."
She must love your success, and Motsi's success, on television.
Yes, she does, very, very much so.
I think, even now, I did a tour,
and she actually, for the first time,
got to see give the reaction because everything she sees
has always been on social media,
but for the first time, she saw it, and I went,
"Ladies and gentlemen, my mum's in the house."
Everybody stood up and she was just like, "Yes!"
LAUGHTER
"I am her. I have created all of this."
And she would walk on, she'd just walk out like this.
Like a queen. Like, "Yes, I'll take your photo,
"yes, I'll sign your autograph." She loved it. She loved it.
How was she, when you were on Strictly,
if Motsi marked you down or gave you bad marks,
did she side with one sister or the other,
or did she stay out of it all?
She did not stay out of it. She's very protective.
When Motsi and I were still on the show...
I mean, the first two years was great.
You know, I was really lucky.
Bill was amazing. He turned it round.
The last one didn't go so well.
She goes, "Who are these judges? What do they know?"
But one of the judges was Motsi. It's my sister! It was Motsi.
It was like, "Mum, what are you talking about?"
She's like, "These judges don't know what they're talking about.
Motsi and I would laugh. She's like, "I went from
"the first-born daughter to "these judges"."
And she got really, really upset, she got emotional,
and I kept writing to Motsi,
"I don't think you should come for Christmas.
"Or if you are, I think you're sleeping outside this year."
Literally, I had so much fun making jokes about it.
It just occurred to me, you would be a natural for Strictly
because you already bring the Glam.
I have known Katherine for eight years.
I can imagine you'd be great on it.
I ask her every year. I don't think that I can do it.
Really? Cheat on my husband?
I love him.
LAUGHTER
I love him.
APPLAUSE
I catch too easy.
OK, yeah, yeah, OK. That's a very good answer.
One final thing before we move on.
Who do you think's gonna win this year? Oh, don't do that.
I've gotta ask it. The thing is, everyone asks me.
The thing is, the professionals are my friends, so if I name someone,
you know my WhatsApp is gonna go mad.
Yeah, but someone's got a win.
Someone's gotta win. I don't have to vote.
But which one of your friends do you think will win?
I have three. I have three options.
I think either Hamza, Tyler or Fleur.
OK, and of those three?
LAUGHTER I would say rank them,
but that sounds wrong coming from me.
LAUGHTER
If you had to...
If you had to put them in an order...
APPLAUSE
If you had to put them in some kind of an order.
Ahh! I'll go...
You're so bad! Why you do this to me?
You always do this to me, and you know what's gonna happen.
I'm the one gonna get into trouble, you know?
I'm starting my career. How do you...?
LAUGHTER
Well, I'm finishing mine! I wanna go out with a bang.
The winner for Strictly this year will be...
Um...
I'm gonna say either Tyler or Hamza.
OK, and of those two...
No!
Who do you think's most shit?
LAUGHTER
We'll give you the answer after the break!
Don't go away, because up next, we'll be joined by Craig David.
See you in a couple of minutes.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Welcome back to the show, everyone.
Let's get my next guest out. He is an R&B MBE,
it's the one and only Craig David.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Hello!
Hello. Hello, how are you?
You OK? Yes, I'm good.
Good to see you, Craig. Good to see you, man.
How are you, Craig? You're looking great.
Really well, thank you, man. Earlier this year, you performed
at the Queen's Platinum Jubilee celebration.
Yeah. Big honour.
It was amazing.
Great performance and, presumably, you got to meet some,
if not all, of the Royals who were there afterwards.
Yeah, it was a really special moment
because we got to go to Buckingham Palace after.
We performed in front of it, but we were able to go to...
Inside the palace? Yeah, a little soiree they had in there.
I was with my mum, which was the most important thing.
To be with my mum, walking into Buckingham Palace.
And the place where I grew up was a place called Holyrood Estate.
And the block of flats was called Queen's House.
So, she's grabbing my hand and she's squeezing it tightly.
She's looking around, and I can tell what she was gonna say.
"We're in the Queen's house. We're in the Queen's house."
I'm like, "Yeah, we're in the Queen's house!"
And as she did it, Prince William walks over, and I'm like...
He comes in for the handshake, and I'm like,
"It's great to see you." And he said, "Look, George, my son,
"was going crazy over the blue sequined outfit you were wearing."
It was quite some outfit you were wearing.
I don't know where you shop for... but that's amazing.
But my mum was there.
Firstly, I said, "Lovely to meet you.
"Love that George liked the outfit."
I said, "Mum, this is Prince William.
"Prince William, this is my mum."
That moment, for me, as a son,
was probably THE most incredible moment that I've ever had.
For my mum to be in Buckingham Palace,
meet Prince William, and then Kate comes over,
and it's the same thing again.
It was just, like, yeah, a very memorable moment.
Looking back at that outfit,
I'm thinking you were someone who knows
how to have a good time. Mm-hm.
I'm imagining you're someone who knows how to throw a good party.
I'm thinking about your Miami years in particular.
What was the wildest party?
What was the wildest night you had there?
Describe for us a Craig David party
back in the peak of when you were a party animal.
I was just the hostess with the mostest.
So, I'd have the drinks on tap,
I bought in food and catering for everyone.
Literally, I was the hostess with the mostest.
I was DJing, I was playing tunes.
What kind of people would you play host to?
Drop some famous names for us. Everybody's welcome to your house?
Do you know what? Did you have portaloos,
or did you allow them to use your house toilet?
LAUGHTER Everyone?
I let people... It started to turn into a bit of a guestlist,
had to kind of go down, not that I wanted there to be one.
So, it was all comers at one stage? People were starting to rock up.
Cos it was in the Mondrian Hotel,
so people would just rock up randomly.
Like, "Yo, I hear the music coming through, can we come through?"
I wouldn't have the front to do that.
I wouldn't gate-crash someone's party.
Trust me, in Miami, they would gate-crash your whole situation.
And they'll take your TV off the wall, straight.
But you must lose stuff.
If you have uninvited guests -
or even some of the people I know who are friends are thieves -
you must have lost stuff.
Yeah, do you know what it was?
I've always been a big thing of, like, the karma will come round.
So if you want to try rip the TV off the wall...
Not that you can really get away with that one.
By all means, do what you need to do here.
Cos I think that when you try monitor everyone
and check if someone is doing something,
you end up not having a great time.
I've got to keep them out of my bedroom
cos I've got my lucky pants in that drawer.
I don't want to lose them. You know the ones. The orange ones.
With the number one on them?
But you lived that life about as fully
as someone could, didn't you?
And then you found it not enough, didn't you?
Yeah, it just felt it was played out.
For the dream of what it was of going out to Miami,
the palm trees and the beautiful sand,
the bikini-clad women, the whole thing.
Literally, it was just, like, Miami. Let's be here.
And it just got super played.
I just felt a million miles away from home.
But also, it was just I'd come from such a humble background,
growing up in Holyrood Estate with my friends close to me,
with my mum and my grandma, predominantly, raising me,
being close to the music and the culture
that was happening in this country, so when I was over there,
I just felt like it was a complete juxtaposition.
I've got the Ferrari, I've got the apartment,
I'm throwing the house parties,
but also, I noticed that people would use and abuse that.
It wasn't, like, really close friends.
It was like, "We'll rock up when it's a Friday night."
But you call them to help you out
if you're on the motorway - or I95 out there -
I'm not hearing anyone pick up the phone.
You're pulling up in the lay-by cos you've just broken down,
you're not really picking up, but TS5 Party, "We are there!"
So, really, they were fair-weather friends.
Fair-weather friends.
It's good to know that even Ferraris can be unreliable on the motorway.
In the book, this is Craig's book,
ladies and gentlemen, it's just out now, it's called
What's Your Vibe? Tuning Into Your Best Life.
It is about, if you don't mind me paraphrasing,
finding some sort of truth
and finding out some sort of way of living...
Totally. ..which means something which isn't hollow.
And in here, you talk about one specific party that you'd thrown,
when you realised it wasn't satisfying.
Yeah, actually, talking about the Ferrari,
I had a moment where...
It was just a realisation for me
where I had taken a girlfriend at the time
over to a restaurant we were going to.
Meeting some friends,
it was a first date that was going on.
Had a lovely meal at this place called Prime 112.
Had a good meal, came back to the car
that was parked outside cos you've got the Ferrari.
It's got to be outside! We know you've got a Ferrari, OK?
We know you had a Ferrari. LAUGHTER
Genuinely, we got to let it be known.
Because it's the juxtaposition.
Well, anyway, listen, jump forward,
I've had this lovely meal, get back into the car...
..thinking I'm the guy, turn on the car,
I'm hearing... MIMICS ENGINE STALLING
I'm like, "What the hell's going on? This is not the one."
So I said to my friends, "Listen, are you cool to go on?"
We're going to a club after this, so I said,
"You cool going with my friends? I'll meet you there after.
"There's something going on here. A little situation."
She's like, "It's fine, don't worry."
Craig, can we get to the end of the story?
LAUGHTER
How can you not let me... I wanna get to the end of the story.
I feel like I've been in Miami with you
for a year.
You've got to set the tone.
Car's not working, I call up the dealership,
I ask, "What do I do to get this car started?"
He said, "Listen, open the door seven times,
"turn the ignition seven times, and it will reset,
"it will recalibrate the system."
So, not like magic.
There is a technique to it. Yeah.
I'm calling, doing this, the lights are flashing like crazy.
Everyone's out the restaurant, thinking, "Who's this joker?"
Stealing a Ferrari.
I don't know what car it is, but we'll just keep it between us.
So, all of a sudden,
I had this moment where I'm in the car
and I'm looking around inside of the car,
and, for some reason, I had this incredible epiphany,
which was, like, this is all absolute nonsense.
And that, for me to be here,
in Miami, and to not really appreciate...
I was stressing about the car, stressing about getting this girl,
meeting this girl and going.
I was like, "I've lost the whole thing."
That was a defining moment that then meant me
selling my apartment, selling the car, selling everything,
and coming back home to the UK.
That was... That was what I was trying...
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
When we got there, it was a great story.
That was a lovely story.
APPLAUSE So proud!
I mean, here's the book. You can read it quicker than that.
LAUGHTER
We're recording an audiobook for that.
It's genuinely a very touching story
because when we got to the end of that,
you realise you were vulnerable. Totally.
And you touched into what was missing
and you came back here to try and find it.
And you do seem to be, certainly, in a better place now
than you were when I met you years ago.
You seem to be much more focused, and I guess you used to be more
of just a people-pleaser, didn't you? Totally.
Like, people-pleasing sort of became my...
It led from impostor syndrome, really,
because when I first started off,
it happened so fast, from, like, zero to 100,
that I thought, "Someone's gonna pull the rug
"from underneath my feet in a minute."
So I think that then I started to lean into everything was a yes.
Katherine, you're someone who strikes me
as being not too concerned about what people think about you.
Have you been in that situation? Ever a people-pleaser?
I think I definitely was more of a people-pleaser
when I was younger, and it was just with...
I think we all get to this point of maturity,
where you go, "I would like everyone to love me."
I wanna make people happy, but at the end of the day,
I'm not responsible if they don't.
You can put your best out there, and if they don't like it...
My mother always said, "If we all like the same thing,
"we'd all be married to your father."
LAUGHTER
So, now, we do have great music on the show tonight,
but if you're a Craig David fan,
it's bad news that he isn't performing this evening.
However, it's exciting that Craig does have a new album out this year.
22 is out now, and we're gonna show you...
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
We're gonna show you a clip. DNA's the single.
Have a look at this.
# There's something in your DNA
# Cos heaven did it right
# Baby, when you were made
# You hit it different I feel some type of way
# I'll never be, never be the same
# There's something in your DNA... #
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE That was Craig in action.
DNA's the single's name.
Craig David and Galantis.
Craig, stick around, don't go anywhere, because up next,
we will be joined by Matthew Modine. See you after the break.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Welcome back to the show. Let's get my next guest out.
He is a star of the big-screen, and now known to new generation
of fans as "Papa" from the smash hit Stranger Things.
Here he is. It's Matthew Modine.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Papa!
Papa.
Hi, Matthew, how you doing? Nice to meet you. Sit down.
Well, you know, sometimes I'm worried about,
when you're talking about someone who's done a lot of great things,
a lot of great movies and TV,
whether or not you feel like you're diminishing it
by talking about one recent thing.
But you've come out wearing the Papa jumper. Yeah, that's it.
So, obviously, you're embracing the Stranger Things success right now?
Yeah, I was walking through Covent Garden
and it was in the shop window,
and I figured, you know, I'm going on Jonathan Ross
and maybe people won't know who I am.
LAUGHTER Everyone knows who you are.
So, Papa has become...
Do people shout Papa to you when they see you? They do, they do.
In... in strange sexual, um... uh...
They call you Papa? "I love you, Papa.
"Would you like to go have a shag?"
KATHERINE: Sorry about that.
LAUGHTER Wow.
I get it. It's a vibe.
It is a vibe. Hold it. Oti says, "I get it, I get it."
No, Papa's like daddy, like, "Hey, Daddy."
I get it, no? Isn't that a little bit...
I'm not doing it, I'm just saying, I get them.
LAUGHTER
It is awkward seeing you again now.
LAUGHTER
Craig, anyone ever call you Papa in bed?
Haven't been done... I haven't got the Papa thing yet. No?
No. You're still young.
So, I was thrilled to see you in that show
cos I've loved your work since the '80s.
I remember, I think the first film I soy you in was Birdy,
which was a big hit, British director Alan Parker. Mm-hm.
You and Nicolas Cage back in the mid-'80s, I think, early '80s.
Yeah, '83. OK.
And then you came over here to make Full Metal Jacket
with the brilliant Stanley Kubrick.
And you lived here in the UK for a while back then?
Yeah. It took almost two years to make the film,
and that image there is right down the river in the Isle of Dogs.
Yeah, cos he wouldn't go to Vietnam and he wouldn't shoot abroad.
Kubrick didn't like to fly, did he? No.
So you recreated a version of Vietnam in Docklands here in London.
Yeah, you can see how unhappy...
Those are Spanish palm trees,
and they brought them over and stuck them in the ground,
and they were very unhappy, the palm trees.
LAUGHTER
He's famously quite a demanding director to work for.
Yes. You know, requesting multiple takes
and, like, really putting actors through their paces.
How did you find working with him? I really enjoyed him.
You know, he used to say,
people complain about doing multiple takes
and people always ask me,
why do you do 30 takes, 50 takes, sometimes 100 takes?
And he said that you'd never go to Pablo Picasso
and say, "Hey, Pablo, how many strokes in that painting?"
Or go to Beethoven and say, "How many notes in that song?"
He said, "So I don't understand why people ask me that question."
What you should be concerned with is the result.
You know, how many times did you practise that dance?
How many times do you practise that joke?
How many times, you know, before you got the song right?
How many times did you practise that anecdote?
LAUGHTER
Don't worry, as long as it lands! Don't start talking about Ferraris.
LAUGHTER
APPLAUSE
I'm curious about you growing up in Utah, though,
because Utah was underdeveloped when you were young, I guess?
It was a couple of hundred thousand people,
and probably most of them were Mormons,
which is a really funny kind of...
But you weren't a Mormon?
My dad joined the church for little while
cos his mother, my Grandma Zella, said that it'd be good for business.
LAUGHTER What was the family business?
We were drive-in theatre managers.
My dad had drive-in theatres and my mom was a book-keeper.
I'm the youngest of seven kids. Wow.
It was great. I mean, you would have loved it
because all the movies that I got to see.
And it was just magical.
I've been to a few drive-in theatres in the States before they...
They're mostly gone now, I think, haven't they?
The old ones, anyway. Yeah.
And people blamed VHS tapes and DVDs and cable,
but really, what it was,
the front seat of a car used to be like this, it was a bench,
and you could get busy in the front seat, you could make love.
And then if it got really good, you'd get in the back seat.
Yeah. LAUGHTER
And so I got my sex education
turning the speakers off at the drive-in
and peeking in windows. Wow!
LAUGHTER
Which is probably problematic by today's standards,
but I'm thrilled for you.
But, Oti, you've been all over the world, haven't you?
You're based here now, but you were in Germany for many years as well?
Yes. So, I moved to Germany ten years ago,
and I lived there for three years, and I was competing,
dancing with my husband,
and then I started doing Strictly there, actually,
and it's called Let's Dance.
But the thing is, I love,
the first time I came to the UK, I came in 2015,
and then I went back to Germany and I came back in 2016.
My favourite, favourite, favourite thing
and the reason why I moved here
is when I came back, everyone, from the airport to the plane
to the shops, people who knew me said, "Welcome home."
So, when you go back, when you go to Germany,
what do they say at the airport?
SHE LAUGHS
I have a very famous sister in Germany,
so people get excited when they see my passport and they see...
Because of Motsi? Because of Motsi. So they go...
"Bist du die kleine Schwester von Motsi Mabuse?"
And I'm like, "Yes, let me in, please!"
And they let me in.
So, if you could do that in English for us, though? Oh, sorry.
"Are you the youngest sister..."
I said that in the German...
"Are you Motsi's younger sister?" Are you Motsi's younger sister?
Yes. And then I go, "Yes, please let me in."
Weirdly, that's what I get when I go to Germany.
LAUGHTER The same way?
So, let's return, if we may, to Papa again briefly.
You worked a lot with the brilliant Millie Bobby Brown
in Stranger Things. Yes.
It was almost like a double act in some ways.
Obviously, it's a huge cast, but very central to it.
And you were working with her when she started the show.
She was really pretty young, wasn't she? 11.
So she was 11? Yeah.
As, indeed, played the character Eleven.
Until her growing into a young woman on the show and becoming an adult.
That must have been interesting,
to be part of young actor's life to that extent
at that formative period? Yeah.
How the business changed,
you know, when you saw me in Birdy to today, um...
If a movie was successful in 20 or 30 territories around the world,
20 or 30 countries around the world,
that would be huge, that would be an enormous success.
And Netflix is in over 190 territories around the world.
So what she was exposed to,
what all the children on the show were exposed to
was a kind of fame and popularity and notoriety
that never existed in the history of the entertainment industry.
It couldn't have been achieved back then
cos you didn't have that reach. Yeah.
So I just wanted to do everything I could
to make sure that she was safe
and that she understood that a career is a roller-coaster,
that there's ups and downs to it, and, you know...
Prepare her for that? Yeah.
It's nice to have someone who's been through it
and is older and wiser to be able to offer you that advice.
And she presumably trusts you and likes you.
We went on a road trip down to Florida
and her parents rented a Winnebago.
And we were driving down and we stopped at a grocery store
and people were freaking out because...
"What's happening? There's Papa and Eleven in a Walmart."
LAUGHTER
And she picked up, she had a very neurotic dog,
and I didn't know that this was happening,
but she bought some dog biscuits, they were vegetarian,
but they were laced with CBD or some kind of...
So the cannabis, the calming part of the cannabis?
Yeah. And we were in the thing
and we're driving to Florida to go to the beach,
and I started eating biscuits,
and these were kind of tasty, you know.
I ate about three or four of them,
and I think a dose was about half of one.
And so, yeah, I started barking and...
LAUGHTER
..marking my territory (!)
I climbed up in the thing and went to sleep for four or five hours.
Wow. That's a fun road trip to go on!
Let me ask you a little bit about
what you're doing in London right now,
because this is exciting.
You're taking over the role in a play
which is already in the West End. Yeah.
And it's an adaptation of a very famous book, of course.
Tell me about who's adapted it for the stage and the role you play.
OK. So, the book is written by Harper Lee,
To Kill A Mockingbird, and Aaron Sorkin
did an adaptation of the book
in a very "Sorkian"...
I think we can say that now. If you're not familiar immediately
with Aaron Sorkin's name, he was the genius behind The West Wing,
he wrote The Social Network movie, so many other great movies,
and I think one of the finest writers
working in film and television today. Yes.
And now on stage as well? Yeah.
And it's a... It's a beast of a role.
It's 190 pages of text,
which I'm struggling to get inside my head now.
But it's...
You know, while the story is a story about a Black man
who's accused of raping a white teenage girl
in 1934, I think it is,
and it's about some systemic racism inside the United States,
what we're experiencing in the United States right now
is something that hasn't changed.
We've become so divided,
and it's a sickening thing to be living through right now.
Yeah. There isn't the chance to share opposing ideas
and work on some kind of common ground.
But on that note, you've met Donald Trump a few times,
haven't you, over the years?
Unfortunately, yeah. LAUGHTER
How did you find him?
In New York, you know, you find yourself at dinner parties,
and somebody, there'll be a table
and you get invited to sit at that table.
And he's... I've been at dinners with him,
and he is everything that you imagine that he is.
You know, that trip,
remember when he was on the bus and he was talking about
being able to grab women's genitals and stuff,
and he could get away with it, he could do it because he's a star,
he said to the fella on the bus.
That's who he is. He...
Maya Angelou says when somebody shows you who they are,
believe them. Believe them.
Yeah. Mm.
And I just don't understand
how he could have become the President of the United States.
Yeah.
APPLAUSE
It's still rather like...
It's rather like a bad dream. Yeah.
So, apparently, you're on stage from this Monday?
Yeah, we begin previews. Previews are this Monday?
Yeah. We open officially, I think it's December 8th and 9th.
Erm, one final thing.
I found a website called TooFab.com,
and had a recent photograph of you, which I'm gonna show now,
with a missing tooth.
Oh, no. Oh, no!
And I was wondering if you could explain how that came about,
because I think this is quite a good story. Yeah.
I was skateboarding. Hold on. So...
LAUGHTER
You were skateboarding? Yeah.
I don't... I...
When we moved from Utah to Imperial Beach, California,
I became a surfer.
And I love surfing
and surfing has led me to my environmentalism,
my appreciation and love of the ocean, it gives us life.
Um, but...
So, now I have a big skateboard, it's a long board,
and my phone was ringing.
So, I was skating, and, you know,
you gotta look cool when you're skating, right? Because...
I had my shorts on and I reached into my pocket to get my phone
to see who was calling me, and I wasn't paying attention,
and my skateboard went down into a crack
and just launched me.
And I landed on my face.
I thought I'd broken my nose because I've got a big nose.
I heard a big crack.
And then I started feeling my teeth,
and this tooth was bent all the way in. Oh!
I thought maybe the dentist could fix it,
you know, sort of straighten it out and it'd be all right,
and he said, "Are you kidding?" And he just pulled the whole thing out.
Whoa! So now I have an implant.
How long did you have the gap tooth for?
Because Katherine had it for about 14 years, didn't you?
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
I did. Something you've got in common right there.
OK, so we're gonna take a break. Don't go away,
but don't go away either at home because up next,
we'll be joined by the brilliant Josh Jones,
and Wet Leg performing live here in the studio.
See you after the break.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Welcome back to the show.
Let's get my next guest out this evening,
one of the best up-and-coming stand-ups on the circuit right now,
I think you're gonna love him, it's Josh Jones.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Hello, Josh.
Hello. Hello, Craig David.
Lovely to have you here. Let's hug it out. Thank you.
Josh, thank you for coming on. You're cheering up the studio
with your jumper already.
I was just talking to Matthew about an accident he had recently,
skateboarding incident. Yes.
And I believe you're quite accident-prone? Yeah.
If you are a UK taxpayer, I'm so sorry.
I do think loads of the NHS has gone on me.
I, erm... I'm in A&E all the time,
but I don't know if it's cos I'm really dramatic.
Like, last time I was there, I woke up
and my eyes were in, like, loads of pain
and I woke up and I thought I was going blind,
so I phone my mum, I'm like, "Mum, I'm going blind."
So my mum drove to my house in a massive panic,
she was like, "Oh, my God, my baby's going blind,
"what are we gonna do? We're gonna have to move you back home,
"you're gonna have to learn Braille."
It was a big day. She really jumped to the end of the story.
That's where I get my dramatic stuff from.
Then we went to A&E, we was in A&E for five hours,
and whilst we was there,
my mum was just crying whilst Googling guide dogs.
LAUGHTER
Eventually, we managed to see a nurse,
and the nurse started asking me loads of questions.
She was like, "Josh, be honest, was you drunk last night?"
I was like, "Yeah, I was shit-faced."
And it was a hot summer's day,
and she was like, "Do you have a fan in your room, by any chance?"
I said, "Yeah, it's right next to my bed."
And the nurse goes, "I think I know what's happened.
"I think you've come home and you were so drunk
"that you fell asleep with your eyes wide open
"you dried your eyes out."
And I was like, "God, this is embarrassing,
"this is mortifying."
And when I thought it couldn't get any more embarrassing,
my mum leaned forward to the nurse and was like,
"Oh, my God, will his eyes ever get wet again?"
LAUGHTER
I didn't know you could fall asleep with your eyes open.
Yes. I was bladdered, though, to be fair, yeah.
Oti, have you fallen asleep with your eyes open?
I do that. Like, it's really weird.
So, we did this at school... Was it Jagerbombs?
LAUGHTER
No. We used to train ourselves,
I don't know, as kids, we thought it was cool,
while the teacher was teaching,
we will train ourselves to look like we were listening,
but we would be asleep. Wow.
But then you get so good at it
that the first time I fell asleep next to my husband,
he's like, "Why are you looking at me?!"
LAUGHTER
And I looked, I was like, no.
So I sleep like that.
And Josh, I know you met Matthew backstage,
but were you a fan of Stranger Things? Did you watch it?
I've only seen the first season
cos the guy I was with at the time got too scared,
so we stopped watching.
He was scared of lots of things - Stranger Things, commitment.
It was a nightmare.
LAUGHTER
But, yeah, so...
I am gonna get round to it.
APPLAUSE
I need to ask you about your podcast.
This is something that Matthew may be able to help you with.
You do a podcast called Hard Sell.
Yes.
With Darren Harriott, the brilliant comedian Darren Harriott.
Tell us about the premise. It's a wonderful idea.
So, basically, we go into celebrities' houses,
which is the main reason I said yes,
and we get to steal one of their things,
and then we sell it for charity.
But we get to go to loads of nice houses.
We went to Joel Dommett's house. That was lovely.
Hmm, nice. Yeah, it was a lovely house.
Not what I would do with the money. But it was nice!
LAUGHTER Yeah, it was lovely.
The reason I say Matthew might be interested,
is I think you're someone who has, over the years,
de-cluttered your life. Yes, sir.
So, have you got any clutter left you could pass his way?
Every Monday on Twitter,
we just want to de-clutter,
so we just have a raffle.
Yeah, we had a house upstate New York,
and you can look at my resume and see,
"I bet you bought the house here and I bet you sold it here",
because there was a lot of really poor choices made.
In terms of films?
Yeah. Because I was paying for a house. I was paying for a lifestyle.
But what's amazing is,
cos I know you've had, like everyone in cinema, certainly,
you've had a career where it's a roller-coaster.
But some of the parts you've turned down... Yeah.
It's very striking.
You turned down some of the biggest movies of the '80s and early '90s.
Yeah. Can we say which ones you turned down?
Sure.
You were offered the part of Maverick in Top Gun. Yeah.
AUDIENCE GASPS
Yeah, it's cos I grew up with the war,
watching the Vietnam War on television,
and then my oldest brothers, and my sister, participated in the war.
There's nothing sexy or romantic about war,
so the idea of making a movie like Top Gun,
that would make it look fun and...
Glamorise it? Yeah.
I just didn't want to participate in that kind of storytelling.
And I understand that, and I 100% respect that.
Why did you turn down Back To The Future, though?
You were offered the Marty McFly role in Back To The Future.
Yeah, but when you think about...
I mean, Michael J Fox...
You see why I turned it down. Because...
But did you know he was next in line? No.
So then, in that case, that argument doesn't really work.
LAUGHTER
They'd hired Eric Stoltz to play the part. Yeah.
Eric Stoltz was let go,
and they told me I had 24 hours to make a decision,
and I said, "Well, Spielberg's producing it,
"but it's this guy Zemeckis. I've never heard of Zemeckis."
I didn't know that Zemeckis was as talented as he is.
But yeah, I just didn't see myself in the role.
But here's another role that Matthew turned down.
He turned down... He was offered the Tom Hanks role in Big.
Yeah, that was really stupid.
LAUGHTER
Josh, I imagine... Already I can see you're a versatile young man. Yes.
Have you done any acting?
Oh, well, I told my agent I would be interested in acting,
and then he got me some auditions for heterosexual men,
and I was like, "I said I could do a bit of acting,
"I didn't say I was fucking Meryl Streep."
Do you know what I mean? LAUGHTER
Like, "Relax!"
So, Josh, how long have you been doing comedy for now?
Seven years. Seven years. So it's still fairly early in your career.
Yeah, it was all, like, doing working men's clubs
and rugby clubs in the north.
Oh, you did working men's clubs?
Yeah, that's how I started.
How did the act go down there?
Yeah, all right. It was where I cut my teeth,
so I think it makes you quite good.
But sometimes, you know, sounding like this,
sometimes they're not...
Like, as soon as you walk on, they're like, "Oh, bloody hell."
Like, I walked on, I did a gig for 300 farmers in Yorkshire.
LAUGHTER
And I walked on stage and all I said was "hello",
and straightaway, this old bloke in the front row
picked his chair up and turned around.
LAUGHTER
So his back were facing me. And I was thinking,
"Wow, this guy is really homophobic."
But then I thought, "Hang on, Josh, maybe he's not.
"Maybe he's just never met an openly gay person before
"and he assumes that the correct etiquette
"is that he has to present himself."
APPLAUSE AND LAUGHTER
That's a lovely way...
That's a positive vibe right there.
And he was a great shag, so fair play.
LAUGHTER
Katherine, what about you?
From your early days as a stand-up,
what were the best and the worst audiences you had?
I mean, I think it's disarming to be different.
I think it's great, Josh.
Go into a room with 300 farmers talking like Josh,
or talking like me,
I think our differences have made us probably very unique
in this industry. I feel really lucky.
Every time I felt like an outsider, it's, like, been for the best.
Like, your comedy is really great
because you say things that women would say in their heads
but then just give you a smile.
Like, you say things that I would go...
LAUGHTER
I'm just saying it with my smile, but you're like, "Fuck off."
And I love it, I love it.
Katherine, and the exciting news is,
and this is quite a revealing thing to leave yourself open to,
you've allowed Louis Theroux into your life
to do one of his in-depth interviews.
Oh, yes, he came on tour with me.
We're doing that on the BBC on November 22.
And how revealing, how open were you?
How much access did you give him?
That sounds wrong, of course. But you know what I mean.
Wide! I was wide open, Jonathan.
LAUGHTER
So, he filmed with your family, he filmed in your house?
Yeah, it's amazing. I protected my daughter from all social media
and didn't really put her out there at all.
And she's a teenager now.
And I feature little bits of her, where I feel like it's appropriate.
So, like, my whole family is actually in this,
cos I thought it was such an amazing project and I love Louis Theroux.
Bobby's in it, the baby's in it. My daughter.
Are the dogs in it? The dogs are the stars of the show.
OK, we actually do have a clip. Let's show a clip. Have a look.
I always loved Bobby.
I feel like part of the magic of our relationship now
is that I find myself, like,
still having a teenage infatuation with him.
Like, I love him like...
like a teenager, like a Romeo And Juliet...
Like, I'm obsessed with him like a teenager.
Really? And you feel it in your heart?
Lower. Lower?
LAUGHTER
Yeah.
I love... LAUGHTER
Right, we're out of that.
We don't want to hear about that, do we?
No, I do feel it in my heart. Yes, I love Bobby.
TMI!
APPLAUSE
The very funny Katherine Ryan with the very funny Louis Theroux.
You can see that next week on the BBC.
Josh, so lovely to have you on.
You've enjoyed him this evening, ladies and gentlemen?
APPLAUSE
A brilliantly funny young man.
We're gonna be seeing so much more of him.
Thank you for coming on the show.
Thank you, also, to Matthew Modine, ladies and gentlemen.
Craig David, Oti Mabuse, and Katherine Ryan!
Join me again next week, where we've got Kate Hudson on the show,
and two of the biggest music stars this country has ever produced,
the fabulous Joan Armatrading will be sitting alongside Stormzy,
who will also be performing at the end of the show.
But now, with Wet Dream, here they are, the fabulous Wet Leg!
APPLAUSE
# Beam me up Beam me up
# Count me in Count me in
# Three, two, one Three, two, one
# Let's begin
# Here we go Here we go
# Here we go, here we go, here we go
# I was in your wet dream Driving in my car
# Saw you at the side of the road There's no-one else around
# You're touching yourself Touching yourself
# Touching your, touching yourself
# Touching yourself
# You said, "Baby, do you want To come home with me?
# "I've got Buffalo '66 on DVD"
# You said, "Baby, do you want To come home with me?
# "I've got Buffalo '66 on DVD"
# Beam me up Beam me up
# Count me in Count me in
# Three, two, one Three, two, one
# Let's begin
# Here we go Here we go
# Here we go, here we go, here we go
# I was in your wet dream Driving in my car
# What makes you think You're good enough
# To think about me When you're touching yourself?
# Touching yourself
# Touching your, touching yourself
# Touching yourself
# You climb onto the bonnet And you're licking the windscreen
# I've never seen anything So obscene
# It's enough to make a girl blush
# It's enough, it's enough To make a girl blush
# It's enough, it's enough It's enough, it's enough
# It's enough, it's enough, It's enough, it's enough
# It's enough, it's enough it's enough, it's enough
# To make a girl blush
# Beam me up Beam me up
# Count me in Count me in
# Three, two, one Three, two, one
# Let's begin
# Here we go Here we go
# Here we go, here we go, here we go
# Beam me up Beam me up
# Count me in Count me in
# Three, two, one Three, two, one
# Let's begin. #
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com