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because in this episode
we're exploring Shock Rock.

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Every sub-genre up til' now has
been based on a particular

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sound but Shock Rock is based
on the visual, and this guy,

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Alice Cooper basically created
this sub-genre by creating a

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stage show that was so
spectacular and so over the
top...

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*

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So what I wanna find
out is why is it that

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hard rock and metal music
marry so perfectly

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with the spectacular
and the horrific.

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* Music *

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* Intro *

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>> Shock rock is a sub-genre
where theatricality and a

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provocative visual style is as
important as the music itself.

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But the use of shock in
entertainment has a much

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deeper history than heavy
metal, or even rock and roll.

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Sam: So I'm here on Coney
Island in New York,

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because long before shock was
used in rock or metal music

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it was part of theatre or
circus entertainment,

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so I'm meeting with Donny Vomit
who's a freak show performer and

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a real expert on this topic, I'm
going to talk to him about

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where shock in
entertainment all began.

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Donny Vomit: The side shows
began in the circuses and

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the carnivals and the side shows
would tour from town to town

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bringing with them human
oddities, this would be

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dwarves, elephant skinned men,
baby shows where there would

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be babies preserved in
jars with 2 heads or

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6 limbs and people
loved to see these.

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Sam: Tell me about the
heyday of the freak side
show, when was that?

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Donny: Back in P.T. Barnums
time, the 1840's and he

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had the greatest collection
of oddities of all types

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and it was shocking how
much money he made.

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P.T. Barnum learned really
quick that it's easier

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to get people to write
articles about you,

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than to take out ads.

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The more they say about you
that's negative the more it's

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going to create that desire
to come and see whatever

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show you're putting on.
People love to be shocked,

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it does something to them
inside, it gets the blood

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going, and it's a feeling
of excitement and

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exhilaration it's something
that people crave.

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Rob Zombie:: I just think
that most people want a thrill,

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they want a (beep)
thrill in life.

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Whether it's you know it's
jumping a motor cycle over

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a tour bus or bands blowing
stuff up that's what they want.

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Sam: What are the earliest
examples of shock being
used in music?

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Gavin Baddely: I think the
roots of the use of shock in

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music go as far back as when
you want to look at when

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music has been used. I think
if you're talking about the

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50's through to the mid 60's
those early rock and roll

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artists who used a bit of
shock to grab the attention

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of the audiences. It's not
insignificant this stuff is

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in parallel with the birth of
rock and roll essentially,

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and also with the birth of
the teenage demographic.

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* Music *

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Chris Alexander: Every
generation is afraid of losing

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control of that generation
and when they see something

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that is alien to them they
can't understand at all,

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they can't fathom
the appeal of this,

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they're afraid of it and want
to put their stomp on it.

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Bob Gruen: Suddenly anything
relating to the gay culture

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relating to men looking like
woman which was illegal at the

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time was very underground, so
for someone like Little Richie

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to actually write songs so well
that he actually got hits

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and got into the public eye and
all of a sudden people were

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seeing one of these
underground trans gender kind

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of performers, that's
what was so shocking.

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Lemmy: Little
Richard god save him
was from

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Macon, Georgia,
imagine being
black and gay

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in Macon, Georgia in
1957. Puttin' a dress on

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with a pencil mustache
and a marcel wig, right?

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Jesus Christ it's bad
enough being gay there
now I should think.

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* Music *

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Sam: What about Screamin' Jay
Hawkins? Are you familiar

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with what he did why it would
be so shocking at the time?

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Chris: Screamin' Jay, I mean
as far as defining what a

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shock rocker is, we can say
Screamin' Jay Hawkins was

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the guy because he brought the
macaw into it, he was that

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bridge between rock
and roll and horror.

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Bob: They would carry this
big coffin out on stage

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and out comes Screamin' Jay
with a cane with a big skull

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on the end of it and he was
very spooky, and he looks at

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the audience and goes "I've
put a spell on you."

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* Music *

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Neal Smith: We talk about
outrageous costumes I mean

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he came right out of voodoo
world almost and actually,

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I mean I hate to say it being
the owner of Kachina snake

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on the killer album but he
was the first one really

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that I know of that
had a snake on stage.

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Oderus Urungus: Just catching
a brief glimpse of him

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shaking his mojo stick had a
huge effect upon me as a young

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little scum dog puppy. His
very existence must have freaked

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people out, no one had ever seen
anything like that before.

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Gavin: It's easy to
underestimate how shocking some

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of this stuff was in the 1950's,
he's the first high profile guy

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singing about cannibalism
and voodoo and so forth.

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So a guy singing about
this stuff would push a

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few buttons amongst sort of
frightened white Americans.

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* Music *

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>> While Screamin' Jay was
shocking American audiences

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in the 1950's, a decade
later across the Atlantic

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a British performer named
Arthur Brown was setting

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the template for future
generations of shock rockers

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Sam: With the crazy world
of Arthur Brown,

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what was your goal of that
whole visual presentation?

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Arthur Brown: Well uh it
started to develop in Paris in
1965.

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I was a pretty stand up singer
singing R&B and Blues,

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and this club was
extremely wild.

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It was the beginning of flower
power with naked people,

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poets, political activists,
performance artists,

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musicians all doing
their thing.

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When I saw everybody I thought
right, and I started to swing

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from the rafters, stage diving
and all kinds of things.

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It was a whole experimentation
with consciousness.

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I can remember once I met an 11
year old who had already taken

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a hundred trips of LSD you know,
lived on his own in a hut.

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And you might say it's bad
parenting but he's quite a
remarkable fella.

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* Music *

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Bruce Dickinson: When I saw
Arthur Brown, Arthur came on in

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this Inca head dress, he was
a very imposing figure, face

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painted in gold and stuff with
this amazing light show and this

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incredible voice, I mean I've
never taken acid but actually I

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didn't need to cause he's so
Arthur and it was the same.

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* Music *

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Arthur: People are going around
saying we're disgusting,

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it's them who's disgusting
inside you know,

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it's like a big sewer pipe you
know they're full of education,

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full of religious dogma
and they don't know

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what anything is about
they haven't had the

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feeling of what the
universe is about.

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Arthur: Our kind of music was
quite shocking, it had that

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capacity to challenge people,
there's the classic figure of

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the monk meditating but losing
focus and so the master

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goes around wacks him and it
was a bit like that really.

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Bruce: That's why Arthur was
such an influence on everybody,

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you know everybody from KISS to
Alice Cooper to Peter Gabriel.

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Arthur had content up the ying
yang, umpteen years later when

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I was in Iron Maiden very
successful, bloody bloody bloo

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I was going for a walk
down by the shops,

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and there's Arthur Brown and
he's doing a gig at the

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Town Hall and about 20
people showed up. I went up

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afterwards and sort of said
"Hi Arthur, you probably

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don't have any idea of
what I do or who I am but

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I probably ripped off 50 percent
of my vocal style from you

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and I've made an amazing
career out of it. Thank you!"

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* Music *

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>> The first musician to
successfully combine

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heavy metal and shock
was Alice Cooper.

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While his songs "I'm 18" and
"Schools out" made him the

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darling of 70's rock radio.
His gruesome stage show was

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creating outrage among concerned
parents and politicians.

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So I've come to meet with
Alice in Montreal to ask

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him how the original concept
for the band came about.

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Sam: So what was your
philosophy, your main drive

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when it came to your stage
show in the early days?

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Alice Cooper: For me it was,
there were all rock heroes

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and no rock villains.

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And I went "Why not a villain?"

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I'll make Alice the
ultimate villain.

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In the early days we had to
create our own theatre.

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I would go back stage and I
would go "there's a hammer"

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Aha that's good, cause I can
hit that on the mic stand

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and sparks will come up. There
was CO2 cartridges back

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there right, you wanna know
how many feathered pillows

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it would take to fill up a
theatre if you opened them up

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and had a pillow fight. Open
the feather pillows, turn on

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the CO2 and the place was
covered, not only that

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everybody that was at
the show was covered.

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* Music *

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Sam: Can you walk us
through that infamous

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day at the revival concert
at varsity stadium?

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Alice: The chicken. My manager
was one of the guys that

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put the show together,
and he says don't pay me

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the only thing I want you to
do is I want Alice to go on

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between John Lennon
and The Doors.

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We weren't really that well
known, we were notorious

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but we weren't well known.
We do our set and we do the

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feather pillows and the
CO2 is coming out and the

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next thing I realize is I look
down and there's a chicken.

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Now I didn't bring the
chicken, nobody in my band

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brought a chicken... who
brings a chicken to a show?

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I'm from Detroit, never
been on a farm in my life,

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it had feathers, it was a bird,
it should fly. And I tossed it

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lightly into the audience and
the audience tore it to pieces,

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blood everywhere, and threw
what was left on stage.

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The kicker to the story is
this, the first 5 rows

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of the concert were all
people in wheelchairs,

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they're the ones that
killed the chicken.

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Neal Smith: All I know is the
press the next day had said

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"Alice Cooper bites the head
off a chicken and drinks the
blood",

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and I said "oh my god it doesn't
get any better than that".

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It was like Christmas.

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Alice: Frank Zappa called me
the next day and he says,

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00:12:00,743 --> 00:12:03,310
"Did you kill a chicken on
stage last night?" and I went

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00:12:03,376 --> 00:12:05,510
"No", he says "Well don't
tell anybody they love it".

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00:12:05,576 --> 00:12:16,710
* Music *

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00:12:16,776 --> 00:12:19,543
Rob: I think Alice
took everything to a
new level,

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I mean he was sort
of first and best at
everything,

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00:12:21,876 --> 00:12:23,943
he was kind of like the Beatles
for this type of music

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you can't think before them.

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Sam: To what extent was
it important to you

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00:12:26,910 --> 00:12:29,310
to shock people for
what you were doing?

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00:12:29,376 --> 00:12:31,310
Alice: It was everything.
Everyone else was avoiding that

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00:12:31,376 --> 00:12:35,243
kind of press, and we were
going "Come on, bring it on!"

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00:12:35,310 --> 00:12:37,743
Neal: I think parents were very
afraid of us, that sort of

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00:12:37,810 --> 00:12:41,210
gets washed to the side over
the years about how frightened

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00:12:41,276 --> 00:12:44,243
people were of that band. One
time I carried 3 guns with me.

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00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:47,410
Dennis Dunaway: We always had
death threats, bomb threats.

208
00:12:47,476 --> 00:12:51,276
We would get to the gig and
there would be the fire

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00:12:51,343 --> 00:12:55,410
marshalls, the humane society,
everybody you could think of

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00:12:55,476 --> 00:12:58,743
there to think of a reason
to prevent us from playing.

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00:12:58,810 --> 00:13:01,310
Alice: We went to England and
already the urban legend

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00:13:01,376 --> 00:13:03,876
had started. You know I heard
that he kills cats and eats

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00:13:03,943 --> 00:13:07,643
them and things like that. By
the time we were scheduled

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00:13:07,710 --> 00:13:12,610
to go over, they had
banned us. Thank you.

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00:13:12,676 --> 00:13:15,643
They couldn't of been better,
we sold out every ticket

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00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:17,943
at Wembley, the record
went right to number 1.

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00:13:18,010 --> 00:13:22,676
Sam: Why did the audience and
press get so bent out of shape
around people like Alice?

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00:13:22,743 --> 00:13:25,676
Rob: Well, because
people are idiots.

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00:13:25,743 --> 00:13:28,243
In fact I think the best
reviews you can ever get is if

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00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:30,476
someone tells you you're
horrible and have no career.

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00:13:30,543 --> 00:13:33,243
That almost guarantees
you'll be around forever.

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00:13:33,976 --> 00:13:41,510
* Music *

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00:13:41,576 --> 00:13:43,676
>> If there's one band in
thehistory of metal that

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00:13:43,743 --> 00:13:46,710
epitomizesthe use of
spectacleto shockaudiences

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00:13:46,776 --> 00:13:49,176
andfillarenas,it'sKISS.

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00:13:49,243 --> 00:13:52,543
Demon,Starchild,
Spaceman and the Cat

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00:13:52,610 --> 00:13:55,976
seemed to strike a perfect
balance between art and
commerce.

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00:13:56,110 --> 00:13:58,676
Peter Criss: We knew we had
wanted to do something

229
00:13:58,743 --> 00:14:00,510
that no one else had
ever did in the world.

230
00:14:00,576 --> 00:14:02,543
We saw Alice Cooper, he
was the only one who had

231
00:14:02,610 --> 00:14:05,576
make-up on no one else did. So
we thought what would it be like

232
00:14:05,643 --> 00:14:10,776
if 4 guys had the make-up on? We
knew we wanted to make the show

233
00:14:10,843 --> 00:14:13,510
like a Ringling Brothers Barnum
and Bailey, we just had

234
00:14:13,576 --> 00:14:16,610
millions of ideas but no
dollars to do these ideas.

235
00:14:16,676 --> 00:14:20,510
I've always wanted to levitate
my drums, and in the

236
00:14:20,576 --> 00:14:24,343
beginning we'd play clubs where
4 or 5 big fat drunken guys with

237
00:14:24,410 --> 00:14:27,943
muscles and they would pull me
up on ropes, the first drum

238
00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:31,776
thing and it would go up like
this you know in a show.. hahah

239
00:14:31,843 --> 00:14:34,010
Larry Harris: We realized
from day one their

240
00:14:34,110 --> 00:14:36,910
music was not great, they
were not great musicians.

241
00:14:36,976 --> 00:14:39,243
That's why you know
the whole KISS
phenomenon

242
00:14:39,310 --> 00:14:41,910
had to concentrate
on their show.

243
00:14:41,976 --> 00:14:45,610
We actually took them by hand
to go visit magic shops

244
00:14:45,676 --> 00:14:48,343
and we paid for them to meet
with the Amazing Randi

245
00:14:48,410 --> 00:14:51,343
to learn a lot of
things and get ideas.

246
00:14:51,410 --> 00:14:53,943
Peter: No one wanted to spit
fire. Gene said "I'll do it,

247
00:14:54,010 --> 00:14:57,276
I'll do anything to get in
the middle of the stage."

248
00:14:57,343 --> 00:14:59,010
Ace Frehley: We were trying
new things that no one

249
00:14:59,110 --> 00:15:01,843
else has done, you know maybe
with one of my special effects,

250
00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:03,810
I had the smoking guitar
I had the light guitar

251
00:15:03,876 --> 00:15:06,910
I had the rocket guitar. I came
out with a smoking flute.

252
00:15:06,976 --> 00:15:10,243
(laughing) It was hysterical

253
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:11,976
Peter: We were a rock and roll
band, we were young we're gonna

254
00:15:12,110 --> 00:15:15,343
kick ass, if it's bothering you
that was just too damn bad,

255
00:15:15,410 --> 00:15:16,943
because sooner or later we'll
be the biggest band in the

256
00:15:17,010 --> 00:15:19,276
world and you'll have
to join the party.

257
00:15:19,343 --> 00:15:29,443
* Music *

258
00:15:29,510 --> 00:15:32,276
Larry: Somehow, somebody started
talking about what KISS

259
00:15:32,343 --> 00:15:35,543
was doing was demonic. KISS
didn't say they weren't,

260
00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:37,643
especially Gene would kind
of go along with it.

261
00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:39,876
In certain cities in the south
people would start burning KISS

262
00:15:39,943 --> 00:15:43,876
albums because they were the
devil reincarnate, and we liked

263
00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:45,676
it because they had to buy
the KISS album before they

264
00:15:45,743 --> 00:15:48,743
could burn it so that was fine.
It also got us free publicity.

265
00:15:48,810 --> 00:15:50,976
Ace: That only made the kids
want to come see us more you

266
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:55,410
know when they saw that on the
news, so it really backfired.

267
00:15:55,476 --> 00:15:58,243
You got 2 jewish guys, a
catholic guy and a Lutheran

268
00:15:58,310 --> 00:16:00,943
who all grew up in America
and just decided to have

269
00:16:01,010 --> 00:16:02,943
a theatrical rock group but
whenever somebody says we're

270
00:16:03,010 --> 00:16:07,810
devil worshippers is completely
obsurd, preposterous. (laughs)

271
00:16:07,876 --> 00:16:09,976
Chris: When I was 3 years old I
remember I was at the library

272
00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:12,276
getting some records out and
books with my old man and there

273
00:16:12,343 --> 00:16:13,910
in the shelf
beside the Raffih's

274
00:16:13,976 --> 00:16:15,376
and Sharon, Lois
and Bram's was

275
00:16:15,443 --> 00:16:17,343
The Love Gun, and you know
uh I didn't know what

276
00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:20,576
the hell I was looking at. These
incredibly hot woman kneeling

277
00:16:20,643 --> 00:16:23,310
at their feet, this was mixing
2 elements that I think are

278
00:16:23,376 --> 00:16:25,743
definitive of what shock rock
is. Violence with something

279
00:16:25,810 --> 00:16:30,476
horrific and ugly with something
very sexual and beautiful

280
00:16:30,543 --> 00:16:33,676
Sam: Why were parents and
the keepers of the morals

281
00:16:33,743 --> 00:16:36,376
of America so wound
up about KISS?

282
00:16:36,443 --> 00:16:37,776
Kim Fowley: Let's say you're
the hottest guy in your

283
00:16:37,843 --> 00:16:40,010
little town and you meet
the hottest girl in your

284
00:16:40,110 --> 00:16:43,210
little town and you work at
the Dairy Queen and you

285
00:16:43,276 --> 00:16:48,176
decide to get married, and you
have a beautiful little girl.

286
00:16:48,243 --> 00:16:52,110
You don't want her to have
sex with Gene Simmons.

287
00:16:52,843 --> 00:16:57,743
* Music *

288
00:16:57,810 --> 00:17:00,843
Larry: I remember one Halloween
we started to see kids,

289
00:17:00,910 --> 00:17:03,310
little kids dressed as KISS.

290
00:17:03,376 --> 00:17:05,976
And at that point, we
knew we had it.

291
00:17:06,110 --> 00:17:10,610
We tried anything we could do to
market this band on any level.

292
00:17:10,676 --> 00:17:16,376
People looked at it as
beneath us or beneath the
band or not, we did.

293
00:17:16,443 --> 00:17:18,110
Chris: They went absolute bat
(beep) crazy with this stuff.

294
00:17:18,143 --> 00:17:20,510
Lunch boxes with (beep) Love
Gun on it, you were going to

295
00:17:20,576 --> 00:17:22,710
school with your banana
and PB and J and there's

296
00:17:22,776 --> 00:17:25,410
Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons
with this giant cod piece.

297
00:17:25,476 --> 00:17:27,843
Ace: The cause of the
over-merchandising, little kids

298
00:17:27,910 --> 00:17:30,276
started showing up at the
show and the audience

299
00:17:30,343 --> 00:17:33,443
started to change and I
remember very clearly having a

300
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:35,710
conversation with management
saying "Hey you know, Ace you

301
00:17:35,776 --> 00:17:38,610
can't go out there and say
'(beep)', because there's little

302
00:17:38,676 --> 00:17:41,643
kids in the audience you
gotta watch the cursing."

303
00:17:41,710 --> 00:17:44,443
We went from this mysterious
hard rock heavy metal

304
00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:47,210
crazy band to like a
teeny bopper band.

305
00:17:47,276 --> 00:17:49,776
I didn't want to have
to change the way I acted;

306
00:17:49,843 --> 00:17:53,310
I'm trying to (beep) my
guitar, and I'm starting to

307
00:17:53,376 --> 00:17:55,710
feel weird because there's
young kids in the audience.

308
00:17:55,776 --> 00:17:58,476
Peter: The men behind us
became so money crazy and

309
00:17:58,543 --> 00:18:01,643
so money hungry, in realizing
we were like a circus

310
00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:03,876
and you can sell us
as super heroes.

311
00:18:03,943 --> 00:18:05,843
For christ's sake we put our
own blood in a comic book.

312
00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:08,010
I think we were losing
all touch of music,

313
00:18:08,110 --> 00:18:09,743
wait a minute we're
a rock band man,

314
00:18:09,810 --> 00:18:13,410
you know we're not
like the monkeys.

315
00:18:13,476 --> 00:18:19,510
(Host speaking)

316
00:18:19,576 --> 00:18:29,976
* Music *

317
00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:32,910
>> By the end of the 70's, the
reign of KISS and Alice Cooper

318
00:18:32,976 --> 00:18:37,110
as heavy metals leading shockers
had ended. With KISS on

319
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:40,643
lunch boxes and Alice sharing
the stage with muppets,

320
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:43,543
middle America was now their
fans and not their foes.

321
00:18:45,476 --> 00:18:48,476
So what did it take for
metal to up the shock
rock ante in the 80's?

322
00:18:50,676 --> 00:18:59,110
* Music *

323
00:18:59,176 --> 00:19:11,543
* Music *

324
00:19:11,610 --> 00:19:14,943
>> At the close of the 70's, the
horror inspired visual styles

325
00:19:15,010 --> 00:19:18,643
of KISS and Alice Cooper had
become camp, and shock metal

326
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:23,243
was effectively dead. But in the
early 80's metal bands started

327
00:19:23,310 --> 00:19:25,676
exploitingafigurethat's
becomesynonymouswithmetal

328
00:19:25,743 --> 00:19:29,910
itself, Satan. And when I was
young the band that I thought

329
00:19:29,976 --> 00:19:33,643
was truly satanic wasn't
Iron Maiden, it was Venom.

330
00:19:33,710 --> 00:19:47,843
* Music *

331
00:19:49,410 --> 00:19:50,810
Sam: I remember getting their
record "Black Metal" and being

332
00:19:50,876 --> 00:19:54,710
just totally mesmerized, even
a little bit scared by the

333
00:19:54,776 --> 00:19:58,410
imagery and the lyrics, and so
I've come back to London to

334
00:19:58,476 --> 00:20:01,210
meet with Abaddon the drummer
of Venom, he was also

335
00:20:01,276 --> 00:20:04,443
responsible for creating the
whole visual style of the band.

336
00:20:04,510 --> 00:20:06,876
I wanna ask him to what
extent were they trying to

337
00:20:06,943 --> 00:20:11,476
shock people by creating this
anti-christian satanic music.

338
00:20:11,543 --> 00:20:14,276
Abaddon: It was all about
being as extreme as possible,

339
00:20:14,343 --> 00:20:19,343
the cult was a great draw, and
it was mainly lyrically I
think.

340
00:20:19,410 --> 00:20:21,810
We weren't into
having vampire teeth
or any stuff like

341
00:20:21,876 --> 00:20:24,443
this we just wanted
to be an extreme
looking metal band.

342
00:20:24,510 --> 00:20:26,643
Because we became so extreme
so easily the satanic

343
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:29,710
thing became like a badge to
wear, when I drew the Venom

344
00:20:29,776 --> 00:20:33,443
logo we wanted it to be as
in your face as possible.

345
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:35,076
It was almost daring
sorta parents to say

346
00:20:35,143 --> 00:20:36,610
"no you can't have that".

347
00:20:36,676 --> 00:20:38,610
There was a guy he a bishop
of somewhere or other.

348
00:20:38,676 --> 00:20:40,576
The government had given him
loads of money to buy really

349
00:20:40,643 --> 00:20:42,343
expensive equipment so
they could play our

350
00:20:42,410 --> 00:20:44,310
records backwards, and put
on Welcome to Hell and

351
00:20:44,376 --> 00:20:47,276
said 'do you agree that that
says I worship satan and

352
00:20:47,343 --> 00:20:48,743
I love satan and all
this other stuff?'

353
00:20:48,810 --> 00:20:50,543
I went I don't deny that
all, do you understand that

354
00:20:50,610 --> 00:20:52,343
it's on an album called
'Welcome to Hell' and it's a

355
00:20:52,410 --> 00:20:54,376
song called 'In a League
with Satan' and it's got a

356
00:20:54,443 --> 00:20:56,443
pentagram on the front, I
didn't have to hide anything

357
00:20:56,510 --> 00:20:58,376
it's all there in English. You
just gotta pick it up and

358
00:20:58,443 --> 00:21:01,376
(beep) read it, it's the same
forwards as it is backwards.

359
00:21:01,443 --> 00:21:08,710
* Music *

360
00:21:08,776 --> 00:21:10,576
Dani Filth: Cranoff said when
he was young Gene Simmons

361
00:21:10,643 --> 00:21:13,310
was always like 8 foot
tall spitting blood

362
00:21:13,376 --> 00:21:16,710
looking like a demon
personality, but he was singing

363
00:21:16,776 --> 00:21:18,576
"I was made for
lovin' you baby",

364
00:21:18,643 --> 00:21:20,610
and he said Venom we
have taken that and we

365
00:21:20,676 --> 00:21:23,743
are the demons, we do
what it says on the tin.

366
00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:26,510
Abaddon: If you are going to do
it, then do it to the enth
degree.

367
00:21:26,576 --> 00:21:29,143
If you're gonna do pyro don't
just do pyro, do over the top

368
00:21:29,210 --> 00:21:31,743
pyro go absolutely nuts and see
what you can get away with.

369
00:21:31,810 --> 00:21:34,210
When I went to America the
first time Metallica were

370
00:21:34,276 --> 00:21:37,143
opening up for us and they
had set an explosion off and

371
00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:38,876
when we finished somebody
pointed out that we had put a

372
00:21:38,943 --> 00:21:41,176
hole in the stage and we had
ruptured the pipes underneath.

373
00:21:41,243 --> 00:21:44,143
It was one of the guys, it
was an American guy this

374
00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:47,176
big kind of bouncer big
grizzly bear guy and he was like

375
00:21:47,243 --> 00:21:49,843
"you know man I was in nam," and
he says "I would go back to

376
00:21:49,910 --> 00:21:52,810
nam but I won't go back on stage
with that stupid (beep) band."

377
00:21:54,376 --> 00:21:56,310
We had actually sought out how
to be more extreme with every

378
00:21:56,376 --> 00:21:59,276
performance and we were the
same with all the imagery,

379
00:21:59,343 --> 00:22:02,510
all the lyrical content, the
jackets on the album covers.

380
00:22:02,576 --> 00:22:04,510
Sam: So at the end of the
day are you primarily a

381
00:22:04,576 --> 00:22:06,576
performer, an
entertainer, a musician...

382
00:22:06,643 --> 00:22:10,510
Abaddon: I never saw us a
musicians, I always saw us as

383
00:22:10,576 --> 00:22:12,676
entertainers, I think all
we wanted to do was shock,

384
00:22:12,743 --> 00:22:16,410
umm kinda jump in their
face and shout boo.

385
00:22:16,476 --> 00:22:23,710
* Music *

386
00:22:23,776 --> 00:22:26,210
>> Besides Venom the one
metaler that used to freak

387
00:22:26,276 --> 00:22:29,376
the hell out of me was King
Diamond, lead singer of

388
00:22:29,443 --> 00:22:32,876
the speed metal band Merciful
Fate. He had an upside down

389
00:22:32,943 --> 00:22:36,310
cross drawn on his forehead,
and he also apparently lived

390
00:22:36,376 --> 00:22:40,243
in a castle in Copenhagen, lit
exclusively with candles.

391
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:46,343
* Music *

392
00:22:46,410 --> 00:22:48,543
Sam: So I've come to
King Diamonds new home

393
00:22:48,610 --> 00:22:51,510
which is in a leafy
suburb in Dallas, Texas

394
00:22:51,576 --> 00:22:53,710
which is not very
satanic at all.

395
00:22:53,776 --> 00:22:57,676
So I wanna ask him, was this
whole satanic thing actually
real?

396
00:22:58,876 --> 00:22:59,810
>> How are you?
>> Good, how you doing?

397
00:22:59,876 --> 00:23:01,176
>> I'm Sam, Nice to meet you.

398
00:23:01,243 --> 00:23:02,810
>> Nice to meet you to.

399
00:23:02,876 --> 00:23:04,676
>> Thanks for having us over.
>> Of Course.

400
00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:08,676
King Diamond: For me,
Satanism is not a religion,

401
00:23:08,743 --> 00:23:11,210
it's a life philosophy, its
never been just an image.

402
00:23:11,276 --> 00:23:13,276
I mean uhh It's
totally a part of me,

403
00:23:13,343 --> 00:23:17,776
King Diamond and King Peterson,
absolutely one in the same.

404
00:23:17,843 --> 00:23:19,643
I mean I would love to wear
makeup to the grocery store

405
00:23:19,710 --> 00:23:22,510
just to sneak around an
aisle and see the response,

406
00:23:22,576 --> 00:23:24,710
but I'd be arrested
in a heartbeat.

407
00:23:24,776 --> 00:23:27,243
Monte Conner: King Diamond was
definitely taking things to a

408
00:23:27,310 --> 00:23:29,876
new extreme, you had a self
proclaimed Satanist which was

409
00:23:29,943 --> 00:23:33,276
a scary word to popular culture
back then singing with this

410
00:23:33,343 --> 00:23:36,510
crazy falsetto voice that no
one had ever done before.

411
00:23:36,576 --> 00:23:38,310
Dani: The first time I ever saw
him was on the cover of

412
00:23:38,376 --> 00:23:41,176
'Don't Break the Oath', you
don't actually see him he's

413
00:23:41,243 --> 00:23:43,476
like a shadow in this gateway
that looks like it's leading

414
00:23:43,543 --> 00:23:46,843
to hell, and then we listen to
his vocals and stuff like that,

415
00:23:46,910 --> 00:23:52,176
it's like wow this is eerie it's
like a ghost, this guys insane.

416
00:23:52,243 --> 00:23:54,843
Diamond: We all like to get
scared, it's just the way it is.

417
00:23:54,910 --> 00:23:57,410
For me it's not so much
to give them the shock,

418
00:23:57,476 --> 00:24:00,376
more like put 'em in a mood.
The listener can make it

419
00:24:00,443 --> 00:24:04,443
much more scary than I
can, because he will pull

420
00:24:04,510 --> 00:24:08,243
from all the things he feels
most scared about.

421
00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:15,276
* Music *

422
00:24:15,343 --> 00:24:17,876
Sam: Growing up when I was a
teenager the thing I heard was

423
00:24:17,943 --> 00:24:22,243
King Diamond lights his entire
apartment with candles because

424
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:25,376
King Diamond is a Satanist he
doesn't believe in electricity.

425
00:24:25,443 --> 00:24:29,376
Diamond: I mean seriously I
mean, you have no idea the

426
00:24:29,443 --> 00:24:31,843
rumors I've heard you know, on
the road there was the crew

427
00:24:31,910 --> 00:24:34,376
that told me you should hear
what we told some of the fans,

428
00:24:34,443 --> 00:24:36,343
they said "don't go over to that
bus King Diamond is sleeping in

429
00:24:36,410 --> 00:24:38,843
there and he brings his coffin
from Denmark and if you

430
00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:41,376
wake him up he's guaranteed
gonna kill you".

431
00:24:41,443 --> 00:24:45,276
Ahhhhh!! I scared the hell out
of my cats now I'm sure.

432
00:24:45,343 --> 00:24:51,376
* Music *

433
00:24:51,443 --> 00:24:54,410
>> As the 80's wore on, the
resistance to satanic imagery

434
00:24:54,476 --> 00:24:57,343
and lyrics in heavy metal
grew from a few parents

435
00:24:57,410 --> 00:25:01,110
waving placards to
systematic opposition.

436
00:25:01,143 --> 00:25:03,710
The parents music resource
centre, a committee of wives

437
00:25:03,776 --> 00:25:06,543
of some of the most powerful
men in Washington created a

438
00:25:06,610 --> 00:25:10,310
list of songs deemed corrupting
for the youth of America,

439
00:25:10,376 --> 00:25:14,310
called the filthy 15. Their
campaign also succeeded in

440
00:25:14,376 --> 00:25:17,143
placing explicit warning
labels on records.

441
00:25:18,643 --> 00:25:20,210
Dr. Karen Stermheimer: There was
this growing backlash against

442
00:25:20,276 --> 00:25:22,343
what was seen as the
permissiveness of the 60's and

443
00:25:22,410 --> 00:25:25,810
the 70's, and the explicit
warning labels seem like a

444
00:25:25,876 --> 00:25:29,243
victory for the PMRC they were
excited by it they had said

445
00:25:29,310 --> 00:25:31,176
this is all we ever wanted,
we just want to know

446
00:25:31,243 --> 00:25:32,610
what kind of music we are
buying for our kids.

447
00:25:34,010 --> 00:25:37,810
But for most kids that became
kind of an advertisement,

448
00:25:37,876 --> 00:25:40,743
for this is possibly
really interesting music.

449
00:25:40,810 --> 00:25:42,543
Abaddon: I mean if I was a
kid and I was looking at the

450
00:25:42,610 --> 00:25:44,743
filthy 15 they would be the
15 songs I'd wanna buy.

451
00:25:44,810 --> 00:25:47,143
I wouldn't wanna buy the top
ten or the top 20 or whatever,

452
00:25:47,210 --> 00:25:48,776
I'd go straight for
those 15 songs

453
00:25:48,843 --> 00:25:50,876
and say they must make
a (beep) good album.

454
00:25:50,943 --> 00:25:53,776
Diamond: What they did just had
the opposite effect, putting

455
00:25:53,843 --> 00:25:57,476
Merciful Fate on the filthy 15
list, suddenly we were in USA

456
00:25:57,543 --> 00:26:00,576
Today and all kinds of stuff
which we would have never been,

457
00:26:00,643 --> 00:26:01,876
so thanks, you know.

458
00:26:01,943 --> 00:26:15,110
* Music *

459
00:26:15,176 --> 00:26:18,110
Sam: By the end of the 80's the
whole satanic panic around

460
00:26:18,176 --> 00:26:21,443
metal had dissipated and with
the 90's music started to

461
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:25,143
take a far more serious turn.
It's hard to think of the 90's

462
00:26:25,210 --> 00:26:28,010
without thinking of Marilyn
Manson who brought a

463
00:26:28,110 --> 00:26:32,476
much more intellectual vibe it
seems to shock rock and so I've

464
00:26:32,543 --> 00:26:35,443
come to Fort Lauderdale of all
places which is actually where

465
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:38,243
Marilyn got his start and I'm
meeting with the founding

466
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:42,943
guitarist Daisy Berkowitz, cause
I wanna ask him where the whole

467
00:26:43,010 --> 00:26:46,110
philosophy behind Marilyn
Manson come from.

468
00:26:46,143 --> 00:26:48,310
Daisy Berkowitz: We weren't
going into shock rock with

469
00:26:48,376 --> 00:26:51,310
an idea of here's how we're
going to shock people,

470
00:26:51,376 --> 00:26:55,610
I was just happy doing weird
music with a concept and theme,

471
00:26:55,676 --> 00:26:58,143
something more artistic and
conceptual than other people

472
00:26:58,210 --> 00:27:01,276
were doing in the early 90's
nobody had any theatricality,

473
00:27:01,343 --> 00:27:04,243
nobody had a great show.
We had a theatrical show

474
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:07,276
that was not only theatrical
and visual but weird.

475
00:27:07,343 --> 00:27:10,110
Alice: When I saw Marilyn of
course, I looked at it and said

476
00:27:10,110 --> 00:27:13,610
okay that generation
needs an Alice.

477
00:27:13,676 --> 00:27:17,210
That's who Marilyn was, Marilyn
was that generations Alice.

478
00:27:17,276 --> 00:27:19,576
The videos with Marilyn
were the scariest part,

479
00:27:19,643 --> 00:27:21,810
his videos were
truly disturbing,

480
00:27:21,876 --> 00:27:23,643
I mean I was shocked
by the videos.

481
00:27:23,710 --> 00:27:31,710
* Music *

482
00:27:31,776 --> 00:27:34,176
Alan Cross: Marilyn Manson
took the whole shock rock

483
00:27:34,243 --> 00:27:36,476
thing about as far as
it could possibly go

484
00:27:36,543 --> 00:27:39,210
before you have to start
arresting people.

485
00:27:39,276 --> 00:27:43,010
The image was just absolutely
every parent's worst nightmare.

486
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:47,143
He was ghoulish, he was
scary, he was violent,

487
00:27:47,210 --> 00:27:49,976
he was anti-religious, he
was apparently an actual

488
00:27:50,110 --> 00:27:52,143
minister in some sort
of Satanist church.

489
00:27:52,210 --> 00:27:53,876
Gavin: You have a guy
here who is very sharp,

490
00:27:53,943 --> 00:27:55,443
very smart, very imaginative.

491
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:57,576
KISS and Alice just
wanted people to buy,

492
00:27:57,643 --> 00:27:59,276
they were far more
all-American.

493
00:27:59,343 --> 00:28:01,276
Marilyn Manson
says what he
really wants

494
00:28:01,343 --> 00:28:02,843
the kids to do
is to think.

495
00:28:02,910 --> 00:28:06,710
Marilyn Manson: I like to
experiment with peoples fears,

496
00:28:06,776 --> 00:28:10,143
see what motivates
them, what scares them.

497
00:28:10,210 --> 00:28:13,476
At the same time I also mock
the whole sensationalism of it

498
00:28:13,543 --> 00:28:16,110
in many ways, sometimes it seems
like I'm trying to be shocking

499
00:28:16,143 --> 00:28:19,143
but I'm mocking the fact that
people take it so shocking.

500
00:28:19,210 --> 00:28:21,443
The shock point has never
been the point and hopefully

501
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:24,176
people who like our music can
learn from that, that's the

502
00:28:24,243 --> 00:28:27,110
most I can try and do you know
is to make people think.

503
00:28:27,176 --> 00:28:30,576
Donny: Marilyn was a lot more
vocal off stage against his

504
00:28:30,643 --> 00:28:34,343
opposition of church and
religion and he has his ideas

505
00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:37,643
and he's not afraid to use
them. I think in the past

506
00:28:37,710 --> 00:28:42,110
shock rockers were nuisances
to the right but I think

507
00:28:42,143 --> 00:28:46,110
Marilyn Manson was one of
the first real challenges.

508
00:28:46,110 --> 00:28:57,676
* Music *

509
00:28:57,743 --> 00:29:00,743
Sam: The tearing up of the bible
became part of the show,

510
00:29:00,810 --> 00:29:02,643
how were people
reacting to that?

511
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:05,110
Daisy: It's offensive, sure it's
offensive we know that

512
00:29:05,176 --> 00:29:08,210
but it's just a book. If there
was any message in doing it

513
00:29:08,276 --> 00:29:11,410
that was it and to point
out that truly nothing

514
00:29:11,476 --> 00:29:13,376
is sacred and morality
is ambiguous.

515
00:29:13,443 --> 00:29:16,110
Gavin: Marilyn Manson
appreciated that the best kind

516
00:29:16,143 --> 00:29:18,610
of publicity he could get
particularly amongst

517
00:29:18,676 --> 00:29:21,810
rebellious teens were
these protesters.

518
00:29:21,876 --> 00:29:24,376
These protesters were as much
a part of what Marilyn Manson

519
00:29:24,443 --> 00:29:27,510
was about as the kids
inside the venue.

520
00:29:27,576 --> 00:29:31,276
Karen: It fuels the careers of
shock rock performers to have

521
00:29:31,343 --> 00:29:34,543
people criticizing them, that's
where their music starts in

522
00:29:34,610 --> 00:29:37,110
them feeling like outcasts
in feeling like outsiders

523
00:29:37,143 --> 00:29:40,543
and connecting with people
who also feel like outsiders

524
00:29:40,610 --> 00:29:43,543
because they say look I'm
famous I have this great job

525
00:29:43,610 --> 00:29:47,110
as a rock star but I'm just
like you, I'm misunderstood.

526
00:29:47,143 --> 00:29:49,210
Daisy: Goth culture was
really big in the early 90's

527
00:29:49,276 --> 00:29:52,476
because kids that liked the
music satan's hide they were

528
00:29:52,543 --> 00:29:55,210
the ostracized kids, the kids
that didn't have clubs,

529
00:29:55,276 --> 00:29:58,010
and Marilyn Manson feels like
more of a club house vibe.

530
00:29:58,110 --> 00:30:00,810
I get it, I know what's
going on and you get it too,

531
00:30:00,876 --> 00:30:02,576
and we're laughing at people
who think it's awful

532
00:30:02,643 --> 00:30:05,176
and terrible cause' they
don't get it, so there's a

533
00:30:05,243 --> 00:30:07,110
stronger following there's
like a psychic following.

534
00:30:07,176 --> 00:30:12,710
* Music *

535
00:30:12,776 --> 00:30:15,010
>> Despite the controversy
surrounding Marilyn Mansons

536
00:30:15,076 --> 00:30:18,543
music and performance, by the
late 90's he had sold over

537
00:30:18,610 --> 00:30:22,610
20 million records, made a huge
international fan base and

538
00:30:22,676 --> 00:30:26,176
received wide spread critical
acclaim, but then there was one

539
00:30:26,243 --> 00:30:30,676
controversy that came along that
even Marilyn couldn't handle

540
00:30:32,076 --> 00:30:33,710
Marilyn: I was watching the
news, CNN at the time and

541
00:30:33,776 --> 00:30:37,043
I joked at first thinking I
would get blamed for it,

542
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:40,976
and who knew it would be so
ridiculous the initial reports

543
00:30:41,043 --> 00:30:43,476
they said these kids were
wearing make-up and

544
00:30:43,543 --> 00:30:46,443
were dressed like me that was
like their first report.

545
00:30:46,510 --> 00:30:48,110
Gavin: It was almost you know
like the breaking news,

546
00:30:48,176 --> 00:30:50,110
then there would be a picture of
Marilyn Manson for no obvious

547
00:30:50,176 --> 00:30:54,143
reason with shock rocker Marilyn
Mason and then there would be

548
00:30:54,210 --> 00:30:56,576
"were they Goths?" It's like
he was being put in the dark

549
00:30:56,643 --> 00:31:00,776
for being responsible for this
appalling Columbine tragedy.

550
00:31:00,843 --> 00:31:03,510
Karen: One of the reasons that
Manson became a target was

551
00:31:03,576 --> 00:31:07,243
he was already visible in
the media, so people could

552
00:31:07,310 --> 00:31:10,310
point to him and a broad
swath of the audience would

553
00:31:10,376 --> 00:31:12,543
know exactly who they
were talking about.

554
00:31:12,610 --> 00:31:16,976
Marilyn: I'm not surprised that
I was blamed because I have an

555
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:21,110
image that isn't altogether
pleasant but I think the

556
00:31:21,143 --> 00:31:24,343
saddest most disgusting part of
the whole event was the media

557
00:31:24,410 --> 00:31:28,010
coverage documenting the grief
and filming the funerals.

558
00:31:28,110 --> 00:31:30,843
Then they turn around and
start indicting entertainment.

559
00:31:30,910 --> 00:31:35,310
I think the most gruesome
entertainment I seen was
their coverage.

560
00:31:35,376 --> 00:31:37,376
Daisy: The problem, Brian said,

561
00:31:37,443 --> 00:31:39,376
was don't look at
me it's the media.

562
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:44,276
I thought you were the
anti-christ of rock and roll?

563
00:31:44,343 --> 00:31:46,443
I thought you were scary, I
thought you were big and bad?

564
00:31:46,510 --> 00:31:48,676
Now he's complaining people are
coming to him, he should of said

565
00:31:48,743 --> 00:31:51,610
something like yeah see
how influential I can be?

566
00:31:51,676 --> 00:31:55,510
If he's gonna be vilified, why
should he say oh don't look at

567
00:31:55,576 --> 00:31:57,676
me like that, don't
make me a scape goat.

568
00:31:57,743 --> 00:32:00,476
You're Marilyn Manson
you're supposed to be.

569
00:32:00,543 --> 00:32:03,710
Gavin: I don't think he prepared
himself for the visceral

570
00:32:03,776 --> 00:32:10,110
cynicism and hatred that was
unleashed by the scape-goating.

571
00:32:10,143 --> 00:32:12,010
This you know, I think
really shook him

572
00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:14,143
and he just sort
of disappeared.

573
00:32:14,876 --> 00:32:20,443
* Music *

574
00:32:22,743 --> 00:32:26,110
>> After the Columbine tragedy,
Marilyn Manson retreated

575
00:32:26,176 --> 00:32:29,743
from the public eye and
then in the early 2000's

576
00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:31,876
another band emerged
that actually

577
00:32:31,943 --> 00:32:34,976
terrified me the first
time I saw them live.

578
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:36,910
That band was Slipknot.

579
00:32:36,976 --> 00:32:42,376
* Music *

580
00:32:42,443 --> 00:32:44,376
Sam: And so I've come all the
way to Des Moines, Iowa

581
00:32:44,443 --> 00:32:46,176
which is the home of
Slipknot to meet with

582
00:32:46,243 --> 00:32:49,110
the mastermind behind the
band because I wanna ask him

583
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:54,143
is Slipknot about shock rock or
is it something much more real?

584
00:32:54,210 --> 00:32:56,110
Clown: I didn't set
out to be KISS,

585
00:32:56,176 --> 00:32:58,610
I certainly didn't set
out to be Alice Cooper.

586
00:32:58,676 --> 00:33:01,443
I'm not putting on
a (beep) show,

587
00:33:01,510 --> 00:33:04,476
those other bands no
disrespect like I said,

588
00:33:04,543 --> 00:33:07,510
all great bands
but I don't care.

589
00:33:07,576 --> 00:33:11,210
I came up with wearing the mask
because I didn't want people

590
00:33:11,276 --> 00:33:14,276
to see my real pain, I
wanted to share my own fear

591
00:33:14,343 --> 00:33:19,676
behind the mask that way
you the fan could adjust

592
00:33:19,743 --> 00:33:25,510
to the symbolism of what I
represented, I am clown I have

593
00:33:25,576 --> 00:33:28,776
this sadistic way about me
that is very unpredictable,

594
00:33:28,843 --> 00:33:32,710
very violent, very dangerous
and very in your face.

595
00:33:32,776 --> 00:33:36,110
Sam: It's almost like
creating some sense of
shock wasn't enough.

596
00:33:36,143 --> 00:33:40,110
Clown: War. War. That's
what we are. We're war.

597
00:33:40,143 --> 00:33:58,110
* Music *

598
00:33:58,110 --> 00:33:59,776
Joey Jordison: One thing I
always said about Slipknot

599
00:33:59,843 --> 00:34:01,576
is when people say why
do you wear masks,

600
00:34:01,643 --> 00:34:04,210
I'm like what are you
talking about? We don't.

601
00:34:04,276 --> 00:34:07,543
My mask is a reflection
of the guy you're talking
to right now.

602
00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:10,410
We were a band from the middle
of nowhere, we're all complete

603
00:34:10,476 --> 00:34:14,643
misfits, pretty much outcasts
with a lot of personal demons.

604
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:17,510
It's like no we don't
wear masks, that's us.

605
00:34:17,576 --> 00:34:22,176
Clown: I grew up in an alcoholic
family so I had built up a lot

606
00:34:22,243 --> 00:34:26,976
of rage and a lot of anger but I
know that when I get on stage

607
00:34:27,110 --> 00:34:30,743
I get to live out that pain.
We were forcing ourselves to

608
00:34:30,810 --> 00:34:34,243
recognize our pain and our
anger and pushing ourselves

609
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:38,176
to limits that no other band
could ever think about.

610
00:34:38,243 --> 00:34:41,276
Monte: Clown had a decomposing
crow, and he would inhale

611
00:34:41,343 --> 00:34:44,476
this stuff just to feel
the evil and feel the death.

612
00:34:44,543 --> 00:34:46,143
Sometimes he'd throw up,
sometimes he'd throw up right

613
00:34:46,210 --> 00:34:49,943
into his mask and he's playing
with vomit right in his face

614
00:34:50,010 --> 00:34:51,410
in his mask and smelling
it that drove his show.

615
00:34:51,476 --> 00:34:55,276
Clown: We're here to make the
live experience as real

616
00:34:55,343 --> 00:34:59,376
as it possibly can be.
Things are being thrown,

617
00:34:59,443 --> 00:35:01,710
things are made out of
metal. There's not a member

618
00:35:01,776 --> 00:35:04,543
in slipknot that will tell you
they don't have a fear of

619
00:35:04,610 --> 00:35:08,976
receiving some sort of major
injury or potentially death.

620
00:35:09,110 --> 00:35:18,343
* Music *

621
00:35:18,410 --> 00:35:22,510
Sam: As extreme and dangerous
as Slipknot appears, you are

622
00:35:22,576 --> 00:35:25,510
creating something that is
resonating with all these kids.

623
00:35:25,576 --> 00:35:27,676
Clown: Because we are a
product of the society.

624
00:35:27,743 --> 00:35:31,510
We represent kids that have had
backs turned to them forever.

625
00:35:31,576 --> 00:35:35,776
I came up with the term maggots.
Our kids are like maggots,

626
00:35:35,843 --> 00:35:39,576
they're feeding off of our
disgusting way of thinking,

627
00:35:39,643 --> 00:35:44,010
our violent nature but it
goes deeper than that.

628
00:35:44,110 --> 00:35:46,443
If you know anything about
a maggot, you know that

629
00:35:46,510 --> 00:35:50,576
a maggot turns into a fly,
and a fly grows wings,

630
00:35:50,643 --> 00:35:56,110
it can leave the death and
fly anywhere it wants

631
00:35:56,110 --> 00:35:59,343
to a place of beauty,
to a place of peace.

632
00:35:59,410 --> 00:36:01,276
I'm trying to give
you a revelation,

633
00:36:01,343 --> 00:36:04,010
I'm trying to make an epiphany
go off in your head,

634
00:36:04,110 --> 00:36:07,676
this is salvation through
the pain that we have and

635
00:36:07,743 --> 00:36:11,276
that's what I've been trying
to do this whole time was

636
00:36:11,343 --> 00:36:14,243
to find my own salvation
through my own anger.

637
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:26,110
* Music *

638
00:36:26,143 --> 00:36:29,743
* Music *

639
00:36:29,810 --> 00:36:31,776
>> With Slipknot and
Marilyn Manson,

640
00:36:31,843 --> 00:36:34,410
shockrockreached a new
levelof darkness and the

641
00:36:34,476 --> 00:36:37,110
showmanship of Alice Cooper and
KISS was gone.

642
00:36:38,376 --> 00:36:40,110
However, a new band
out of Germany;

643
00:36:40,176 --> 00:36:44,110
Rammstein has brought the
circus sideshow back to shock

644
00:36:44,143 --> 00:36:47,110
and have become one of the
biggest bands in the world.

645
00:36:50,943 --> 00:36:53,010
So I've come to meet them
in Quebec City on their only

646
00:36:53,110 --> 00:36:56,510
North American tour date to
discuss shock rock and for

647
00:36:56,576 --> 00:36:59,443
this interview I'm pretty sure
I'm gonna need a translator.

648
00:37:05,143 --> 00:37:42,976
[Speaking German]

649
00:37:43,110 --> 00:37:44,943
Oderus: What they do is so
crazy with the industrial,

650
00:37:45,010 --> 00:37:47,543
and the mechanical
stuff and the fire.

651
00:37:47,610 --> 00:37:49,443
A band that just
doesn't give a (beep).

652
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:51,143
Sam: A lot of dildos and...

653
00:37:51,210 --> 00:37:54,110
Oderus: A lot of foul imagery,
a lot of sexual imagery and

654
00:37:54,143 --> 00:37:56,110
it isn't afraid to have fun
with it as well there's kind

655
00:37:56,176 --> 00:37:58,110
of a sense of tongue and
cheek humor in their music.

656
00:37:58,876 --> 00:38:20,543
[Speaking German]

657
00:38:20,610 --> 00:38:24,376
Sam: Do you seek that
negative reaction, is
it motivating for you?

658
00:38:25,176 --> 00:38:33,510
[Speaking German]

659
00:38:39,243 --> 00:38:41,843
>> Rammstein broke new ground
in the evolution of shock rock

660
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:45,110
in the late 2000's by
releasing their video (beep)

661
00:38:45,176 --> 00:38:48,776
on an internet porn site.
Music channels refused to

662
00:38:48,843 --> 00:38:51,410
play the video for
its graphic visuals,

663
00:38:51,476 --> 00:38:54,476
and live performances have
been banned around the world,

664
00:38:54,543 --> 00:38:56,110
including in their
home country Germany.

665
00:38:56,876 --> 00:39:18,276
[Speaking German]

666
00:39:18,343 --> 00:39:24,476
* Music *

667
00:39:24,543 --> 00:39:39,676
[Speaking German]

668
00:39:39,743 --> 00:39:43,643
Sam: What would it take to
shock an audience today?

669
00:39:46,110 --> 00:39:51,243
[Speaking German]

670
00:39:56,176 --> 00:39:57,676
Sam: So it seems today
with the advent of

671
00:39:57,743 --> 00:40:00,076
video games, CNN
and the internet

672
00:40:00,143 --> 00:40:02,110
you can pretty much
see scenes of sex and

673
00:40:02,176 --> 00:40:04,510
violence and depravity with
the touch of a button.

674
00:40:05,943 --> 00:40:07,610
And so I've come to Phoenix,
Arizona the new home of

675
00:40:07,676 --> 00:40:11,543
Alice Cooper the god father of
shock rock to talk with him

676
00:40:11,610 --> 00:40:15,010
about where he thinks shock rock
is at in the 21st century.

677
00:40:15,076 --> 00:40:16,976
Alice: What can you do
to shock an audience,

678
00:40:17,043 --> 00:40:19,010
you'd have to cut your
arm off and eat it,

679
00:40:20,143 --> 00:40:22,110
you know and you can only
do that twice.

680
00:40:22,176 --> 00:40:26,110
So it became now more
entertain the audience.

681
00:40:26,176 --> 00:40:30,110
You can still use shock
values and theatrics

682
00:40:30,176 --> 00:40:31,643
but don't expect
them to be shocked.

683
00:40:33,476 --> 00:40:35,676
Sam: So do you think
people are coming to an
Alice Cooper show to...

684
00:40:35,743 --> 00:40:38,543
Alice: To see the show. Almost
like Cirque du Soleil.

685
00:40:38,610 --> 00:40:42,010
It's amazing how the bands
that this generations

686
00:40:42,076 --> 00:40:44,476
grand parents would
never let them see,

687
00:40:44,543 --> 00:40:46,876
are now they're bringing
their grandparents.

688
00:40:46,943 --> 00:40:49,010
So it is family entertainment.

689
00:40:55,510 --> 00:41:05,376
* Music *

690
00:41:05,443 --> 00:41:07,376
Sam: So is it possible
to shock people today

691
00:41:07,443 --> 00:41:09,610
in the context of music
and performance?

692
00:41:09,676 --> 00:41:12,510
Rob: I don't even know
if you could anymore.

693
00:41:12,576 --> 00:41:13,810
When you watch the old
stuff you think like wow

694
00:41:13,876 --> 00:41:16,410
he just did that and
everybody was shocked.

695
00:41:16,476 --> 00:41:18,510
First of all, it would
be shocking for even

696
00:41:18,576 --> 00:41:20,143
one second if
anybody even cared.

697
00:41:21,543 --> 00:41:23,010
Arthur: I think the kind
of shock rocker we've had

698
00:41:23,110 --> 00:41:27,176
is no longer relevant.
Everything's out there.

699
00:41:27,243 --> 00:41:29,943
Even at the age of 13 you
will be reading stuff

700
00:41:30,010 --> 00:41:32,243
that people never got
to.

701
00:41:32,310 --> 00:41:33,976
Chris: Unless you're out there
really cutting throats and

702
00:41:34,110 --> 00:41:37,443
executing people
live on screen,
but even that,

703
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:39,343
kids if you
wanna see that
it's out there.

704
00:41:40,476 --> 00:41:54,010
* Music *

705
00:41:54,110 --> 00:41:57,176
Donny: I think it would be
an unwise thing to say,

706
00:41:57,243 --> 00:41:58,643
that we've seen it all.

707
00:41:58,710 --> 00:42:02,376
There's some kid in his
basement right now formulating

708
00:42:02,443 --> 00:42:05,576
how to come out there and
how to blow peoples' minds.

709
00:42:05,643 --> 00:42:09,176
He or she is gonna come out and
challenge societies beliefs,

710
00:42:09,243 --> 00:42:10,610
their systems and they're
gonna connect with the youth.

711
00:42:12,110 --> 00:42:13,576
As long as there are young
people, there will always be

712
00:42:13,643 --> 00:42:17,110
people that are willing to scare
the old to entertain the young.

713
00:42:19,343 --> 00:42:46,443
*