1 00:00:02,976 --> 00:00:20,810 * Music * 2 00:00:20,876 --> 00:00:22,810 Sam Dunn: I'm at the Nokia Theater in Times Square in 3 00:00:22,876 --> 00:00:27,043 Manhattan for the CD release of Linkin Park's brand new record. 4 00:00:27,110 --> 00:00:32,076 * Music * 5 00:00:32,143 --> 00:00:34,343 Sam Dunn: In the mid nineties the new style of metal 6 00:00:34,410 --> 00:00:37,610 that emerged was in fact called nu-metal. 7 00:00:37,676 --> 00:00:40,043 For me as a long time metal fan it didn't have any of the 8 00:00:40,110 --> 00:00:42,943 hallmarks that I like about heavy metal music. 9 00:00:43,010 --> 00:00:45,910 The guys didn't look like metal guys, they had short hair, 10 00:00:45,976 --> 00:00:49,276 they had baggy pants and it didn't really sound like metal. 11 00:00:49,343 --> 00:00:51,910 * Music * 12 00:00:51,976 --> 00:00:53,543 It seemed to take a bit of hip-hop and a bit of 13 00:00:53,610 --> 00:00:57,810 metal and a bit of electronica and I couldn't stand it. 14 00:00:57,876 --> 00:01:00,876 * Music * 15 00:01:00,943 --> 00:01:03,443 And so the journey of this episode is to 16 00:01:03,510 --> 00:01:06,676 try to understand whether or not this nu-metal 17 00:01:06,743 --> 00:01:09,776 even belongs in the story of Metal Evolution. 18 00:01:09,843 --> 00:01:10,876 * Music * 19 00:01:14,376 --> 00:02:07,710 * Intro * 20 00:02:10,543 --> 00:02:21,943 * Music * 21 00:02:22,010 --> 00:02:24,410 >> When nu-metal emerged in the mid nineties 22 00:02:24,476 --> 00:02:26,710 it introduced a dramatically different sound and look 23 00:02:26,776 --> 00:02:29,943 to heavy metal but where did nu-metal come from? 24 00:02:30,010 --> 00:02:33,576 To get started I'm meeting with Anthrax guitarist Scott Ian 25 00:02:33,643 --> 00:02:36,210 because the first time I heard metal mixed with hip-hop 26 00:02:36,276 --> 00:02:38,676 waswhen Anthrax joined forces with Public Enemy. 27 00:02:40,010 --> 00:02:41,543 So I'm hoping Scott will shed some light 28 00:02:41,610 --> 00:02:43,343 on the roots of nu-metal. 29 00:02:44,710 --> 00:02:46,343 Scott Ian: We grew up listening to hip-hop. 30 00:02:46,410 --> 00:02:49,110 In Queens and The Bronx we were at the epicenter of that. 31 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:51,976 I was listening to rap music since the time 32 00:02:52,110 --> 00:02:55,443 I was listening to rock music since the seventies. 33 00:02:55,510 --> 00:02:57,410 So "Bring The Noise" was our way to work together 34 00:02:57,476 --> 00:02:59,276 with one of our favorite bands on the planet. 35 00:02:59,343 --> 00:03:02,110 * Music * 36 00:03:02,176 --> 00:03:04,010 Scott Ian: Chuck D rapping over my guitar tone, 37 00:03:04,110 --> 00:03:06,610 something I always heard in my brain. 38 00:03:06,676 --> 00:03:08,910 My rhythm tone and Chuck D's voice were made for 39 00:03:08,976 --> 00:03:11,643 each other and we made that happen, you know, 40 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:14,276 we were able to stretch our boundaries of heavy metal. 41 00:03:14,343 --> 00:03:16,676 * Music * 42 00:03:16,743 --> 00:03:18,676 Scott Ian: It was so organic we just decided let's 43 00:03:18,743 --> 00:03:22,610 really (beep) put our balls on the line and say we know a lot 44 00:03:22,676 --> 00:03:25,410 of the world is not ready for this yet but we don't give a 45 00:03:25,476 --> 00:03:28,343 (beep) we're doing this for ourselves and most of the world 46 00:03:28,410 --> 00:03:30,010 at the time came along for the ride. 47 00:03:30,110 --> 00:03:31,843 Jon Weiderhorn: "Bring The Noise" was so successful 48 00:03:31,910 --> 00:03:35,376 because it didn't sacrifice on either end of the spectrum. 49 00:03:35,443 --> 00:03:38,343 It was extremely heavy and thrashy and you had 50 00:03:38,410 --> 00:03:41,510 a really purpolsive beat so certainly Anthrax did play 51 00:03:41,576 --> 00:03:44,776 a major role in bringing hip-hop and metal together 52 00:03:44,843 --> 00:03:48,643 in a mainstream way within the metal community. 53 00:03:48,710 --> 00:03:50,910 Rich Ward: They were the ones that said metal guys don't 54 00:03:50,976 --> 00:03:54,710 have to wear black jeans and white tennis shoes, 55 00:03:54,776 --> 00:03:57,410 you could wear shorts and all of a sudden find 56 00:03:57,476 --> 00:04:01,810 some kind of connection with your inner inner city self. 57 00:04:01,876 --> 00:04:05,343 Scott: People always say you created rap rock or rap metal, 58 00:04:05,410 --> 00:04:07,843 all that (beep) that started in the nineties with Limp Bizkit 59 00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:10,776 and Korn and that whole sound or whatever, nu-metal. 60 00:04:12,443 --> 00:04:16,743 I'm like man I can't take credit or blame because I don't believe it. 61 00:04:16,810 --> 00:04:18,643 There's so many other bands involved, 62 00:04:18,710 --> 00:04:21,376 Faith No More was doing rap, hip-hop type of stuff 63 00:04:21,443 --> 00:04:25,343 since the (beep) inception of Faith No More. 64 00:04:25,410 --> 00:04:48,543 * Music * 65 00:04:48,610 --> 00:04:49,876 Sam: You guys were always playing with that 66 00:04:49,943 --> 00:04:52,443 kind of slightly funk influence in the band. 67 00:04:52,510 --> 00:04:54,110 Where was that coming from? 68 00:04:54,176 --> 00:04:56,776 Billy Gould: I always liked funk and R&B music myself, I mean as 69 00:04:56,843 --> 00:04:58,943 a bass player it's kind of an interesting thing to play but 70 00:04:59,010 --> 00:05:01,576 what we were trying to do was write things and do things that 71 00:05:01,643 --> 00:05:04,576 would really kind of stand the test of time always from day one 72 00:05:04,643 --> 00:05:06,510 even if people didn't see it at the time, that was always 73 00:05:06,576 --> 00:05:10,343 what we tried to do and as a bass player I've always wanted 74 00:05:10,410 --> 00:05:12,810 to be forward leaning hard on the downbeat, 75 00:05:12,876 --> 00:05:15,710 traditionally speaking rock bassists are on the backbeat. 76 00:05:15,776 --> 00:05:18,176 I always thought it more as like an extra drum 77 00:05:18,243 --> 00:05:19,976 that's part of the percussion attack. 78 00:05:20,110 --> 00:05:23,510 * Music * 79 00:05:23,576 --> 00:05:25,110 Billy: So a lot of things what we're doing if we're 80 00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:26,976 playing these kind of weird rhythmic patterns, I guess it is 81 00:05:27,110 --> 00:05:30,710 funky because funk music is rhythm based but we weren't 82 00:05:30,776 --> 00:05:33,443 really trying to be like a bringing funky grooves 83 00:05:33,510 --> 00:05:36,876 necessarily into rock music and I mean the only band I knew at 84 00:05:36,943 --> 00:05:39,110 the time that had before that was Led Zeppelin. 85 00:05:39,143 --> 00:05:41,110 Adam Rafalovich: You look at a lot of the bands that had a lot 86 00:05:41,176 --> 00:05:44,143 of influence upon a lot of metal artists like Led Zeppelin. 87 00:05:44,210 --> 00:05:47,610 Almost all groove oriented, same sort of tempo, 88 00:05:47,676 --> 00:05:49,943 look at Black Sabbath, grooves are just really accessible, 89 00:05:50,010 --> 00:05:51,876 grooves feel really good. 90 00:05:51,943 --> 00:05:56,410 So in a sense experimenting with different forms was the 91 00:05:56,476 --> 00:06:00,676 revisiting of that and that again expands the audience, 92 00:06:00,743 --> 00:06:03,010 there's more people who are going to get into it if they can 93 00:06:03,110 --> 00:06:06,410 get into a rhythmic structure that appeals to them. 94 00:06:06,476 --> 00:06:15,776 * Music * 95 00:06:15,843 --> 00:06:17,943 >> When it comes to mixing groove and heaviness 96 00:06:18,010 --> 00:06:20,576 no band struck this balance better in the nineties than 97 00:06:20,643 --> 00:06:22,843 Rage Against The Machine, which featured the 98 00:06:22,910 --> 00:06:26,376 innovative approach of Rage guitarist Tom Morello. 99 00:06:26,443 --> 00:06:28,976 Sam: When Rage was just starting out, 100 00:06:29,110 --> 00:06:31,876 where did the inspiration come from to have 101 00:06:31,943 --> 00:06:35,110 that groove rhythmic element in the music? 102 00:06:35,143 --> 00:06:36,943 Tom Morello: Yeah. What made that early batch 103 00:06:37,010 --> 00:06:38,676 of Rage songs was definitely the chemistry of the 104 00:06:38,743 --> 00:06:40,843 four musicians and we brought out of each other. 105 00:06:40,910 --> 00:06:44,110 My contribution to that was my love of those huge 106 00:06:44,143 --> 00:06:47,310 seventies hard rock riffs through the filter of 107 00:06:47,376 --> 00:06:49,576 my love of punk rock and hip-hop. 108 00:06:49,643 --> 00:06:51,843 So I started to compile these riffs and grooves in 109 00:06:51,910 --> 00:06:54,343 Rage Against The Machine as the guitar player, 110 00:06:54,410 --> 00:06:56,876 I was the DJ in the band. That got me thinking about 111 00:06:56,943 --> 00:06:58,710 the instrument in an entirely different way. 112 00:06:58,776 --> 00:07:09,610 * Music * 113 00:07:09,676 --> 00:07:11,110 Tom Morello: While I still loved Randy Rhoads, 114 00:07:11,143 --> 00:07:12,743 and Eddie Van Halen and Yngwie Malmsteen and all that, 115 00:07:12,810 --> 00:07:14,943 I thought there's enough of that happening already, 116 00:07:15,010 --> 00:07:16,943 I started concentrating on the eccentricities of my 117 00:07:17,010 --> 00:07:18,743 playing and all of a sudden we started to hear 118 00:07:18,810 --> 00:07:20,910 something that we hadn't heard before. 119 00:07:20,976 --> 00:07:28,776 * Music * 120 00:07:28,843 --> 00:07:32,343 Deena Weinstein: Rage was actually out there as a 121 00:07:32,410 --> 00:07:35,843 unique band that was on top of the charts. 122 00:07:37,310 --> 00:07:41,843 They mixed things up quite beautifully and distinctively. 123 00:07:41,910 --> 00:07:46,310 Pantera is not a bad bridge to nu-metal either and 124 00:07:46,376 --> 00:07:48,876 people who like Pantera didn't have much 125 00:07:48,943 --> 00:07:52,010 of a difficulty getting over to nu-metal. 126 00:07:52,110 --> 00:08:00,776 * Music * 127 00:08:00,843 --> 00:08:02,143 >> Pantera was one of the most important 128 00:08:02,210 --> 00:08:04,010 metal bands of the nineties and yet they 129 00:08:04,110 --> 00:08:06,676 were virtually impossible to categorize. 130 00:08:06,743 --> 00:08:10,210 Some call them thrash, others call them groove metal. 131 00:08:10,276 --> 00:08:12,976 But one thing's for sure they introduced a style of riffing 132 00:08:13,110 --> 00:08:15,743 that added a new rhythmic dynamic to metal music. 133 00:08:15,810 --> 00:08:27,110 * Music * 134 00:08:27,176 --> 00:08:29,743 Phil Anselmo: The late eighties writing heavy metal songs, 135 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:34,110 a lot of bands would save the money riff for the end 136 00:08:34,110 --> 00:08:36,710 or for the middle or whatever but we saw 137 00:08:36,776 --> 00:08:39,776 that the money riff moved people so it's like 138 00:08:39,843 --> 00:08:43,510 why not make the whole damn song the money riff. 139 00:08:43,576 --> 00:08:50,343 * Music * 140 00:08:50,410 --> 00:08:54,110 Phil: You know, any riff that moved the people, 141 00:08:54,176 --> 00:08:57,543 it was like too infectious not to jump into that 142 00:08:57,610 --> 00:09:01,376 frockus with the people once we started playing. 143 00:09:01,443 --> 00:09:02,710 Brandon Geist: I think what makes Pantera so great 144 00:09:02,776 --> 00:09:05,443 is that they had hooks, they had groovy instantly 145 00:09:05,510 --> 00:09:08,110 humble riffs so it was finding this fine line between 146 00:09:08,143 --> 00:09:11,843 extremity and hookiness and accessibility that very few 147 00:09:11,910 --> 00:09:14,976 bands can manage to do and Pantera were all about like we 148 00:09:15,110 --> 00:09:17,876 are fans just as much as you guys are fans you know. 149 00:09:17,943 --> 00:09:20,843 That was their whole thing, they were always partying with fans. 150 00:09:20,910 --> 00:09:23,543 Terry Date: The feel of their records was based around the 151 00:09:23,610 --> 00:09:26,543 riff and they played with a groove that none of the 152 00:09:26,610 --> 00:09:28,810 metal bands were playing with, you know they played, you know 153 00:09:28,876 --> 00:09:31,543 it's like texas swing meets thrash metal, so there's a lot 154 00:09:31,610 --> 00:09:35,876 of emphasis on how the crowd would react. 155 00:09:35,943 --> 00:09:37,776 Phil: The proof's in the pudding you know, we gigged so 156 00:09:37,843 --> 00:09:41,510 much and it was all about attitude and the bond with the 157 00:09:41,576 --> 00:09:45,743 audience, you know, and that's what was special about us. 158 00:09:45,810 --> 00:09:56,910 * Music * 159 00:09:56,976 --> 00:09:59,510 >> By the early nineties combining groove and heaviness 160 00:09:59,576 --> 00:10:02,410 in metal music was well established but still 161 00:10:02,476 --> 00:10:05,510 these bands were not called nu-metal. 162 00:10:05,576 --> 00:10:08,710 So the question still remains, when was the nu-metal sub-genre 163 00:10:08,776 --> 00:10:12,543 actually born and who was the first true nu-metal band? 164 00:10:12,610 --> 00:10:16,643 * Music * 165 00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:29,710 * Music * 166 00:10:29,776 --> 00:10:31,710 >> Bands like Faith No More, Rage Against The Machine 167 00:10:31,776 --> 00:10:34,576 and Pantera pioneered a groove based sound 168 00:10:34,643 --> 00:10:37,810 in metal music back in the early nineties but the first band 169 00:10:37,876 --> 00:10:41,676 credited with actually creating the nu-metal style was Korn 170 00:10:41,743 --> 00:10:48,843 * Music * 171 00:10:48,910 --> 00:10:51,643 >> So I'm meeting with Korn vocalist Jonathan Davis 172 00:10:51,710 --> 00:10:54,943 to explore the bands background and how it shaped their music. 173 00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:58,143 Sam: I wanted to start by asking you, how would you 174 00:10:58,210 --> 00:11:01,110 describe Bakersfield the time when you were growing up and how 175 00:11:01,176 --> 00:11:05,110 you think that kind of fed into the music you went on to make? 176 00:11:05,176 --> 00:11:06,543 Jonathan Davis: It really had a big impact on me 177 00:11:06,610 --> 00:11:08,676 the town itself because it's kind of barren in parts, 178 00:11:08,743 --> 00:11:11,110 a lot of oil fields, farms, you were either into 179 00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:14,176 dirt bike riding or music that was basically it. 180 00:11:14,243 --> 00:11:17,443 At the time it was considered Nashville West, there was a lot 181 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:19,776 of country music going on, Buck Owens, Hee Haw, that kind of 182 00:11:19,843 --> 00:11:23,110 stuff but the band that got me into like metal music was 183 00:11:23,176 --> 00:11:26,110 Pantera because those grooves were undeniable, they just made 184 00:11:26,176 --> 00:11:28,476 you just want to move do something, make you get out of 185 00:11:28,543 --> 00:11:31,510 your seat and rock out but I think the biggest band was like 186 00:11:31,576 --> 00:11:33,576 Faith No More, they showed us you can do something 187 00:11:33,643 --> 00:11:37,476 different in heavy music that wasn't traditional metal. 188 00:11:37,543 --> 00:11:41,610 * Music * 189 00:11:41,676 --> 00:11:42,976 Sam: With regards to your vocal approach, 190 00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:45,376 you're very different than a lot of other vocalists. 191 00:11:45,443 --> 00:11:47,410 Jonathan Davis: I just was coming out with 192 00:11:47,476 --> 00:11:49,110 what was coming out of my heart 100 percent 193 00:11:49,143 --> 00:11:50,410 I just opened my mouth and sang, 194 00:11:50,476 --> 00:11:51,876 I wasn't trying to emulate anybody, 195 00:11:51,943 --> 00:11:53,610 I wasn't trying to do anything, I was just come and figure 196 00:11:53,676 --> 00:11:56,743 myself out really and I kind of fell into my own style, 197 00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:58,310 it's just from all the different kinds of 198 00:11:58,376 --> 00:12:00,810 music I listen to all meshed into one. 199 00:12:00,876 --> 00:12:03,143 Sam: So were your lyrical influences primarily 200 00:12:03,210 --> 00:12:04,910 coming from a personal place then? 201 00:12:04,976 --> 00:12:06,210 Jonathan Davis: Yah coming just straight from a 202 00:12:06,276 --> 00:12:08,376 personal stand point, stuff I had to get out. 203 00:12:08,443 --> 00:12:14,976 * Music * 204 00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:16,476 Monte Connor: It's another thing that just really 205 00:12:16,543 --> 00:12:18,610 attracted kids to Korn was the realness of it, they never heard 206 00:12:18,676 --> 00:12:22,110 like a grown man just crying on a record and putting his emotion 207 00:12:22,110 --> 00:12:24,376 out there like that, it was like, it was unbelievable. 208 00:12:24,443 --> 00:12:29,943 * Music * 209 00:12:30,010 --> 00:12:31,243 Adam Rafalovich: Jonathan Davis, he had this interesting 210 00:12:31,310 --> 00:12:33,410 way kind of like whispering, you know he would 211 00:12:33,476 --> 00:12:35,476 bring his voice down really really low. 212 00:12:35,543 --> 00:12:38,943 * Music * 213 00:12:39,010 --> 00:12:41,143 Adam: Making you think he's like in a mental institution, 214 00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:45,410 that you're seeing inside of his own head when he would 215 00:12:45,476 --> 00:12:48,543 offer these really whispery little discussions and 216 00:12:48,610 --> 00:12:51,443 then to actually explode would take those songs 217 00:12:51,510 --> 00:12:53,776 to a whole other emotional level. 218 00:12:53,843 --> 00:13:02,110 * Music * 219 00:13:02,143 --> 00:13:03,776 Scott Greer: Now he was just making music and creating 220 00:13:03,843 --> 00:13:07,176 these songs and these lyrics as therapy for himself 221 00:13:07,243 --> 00:13:09,910 and so other people you know felt that sort of connection 222 00:13:09,976 --> 00:13:11,843 to the music and so the band connected 223 00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:14,010 on a mainstream level because it was unique music 224 00:13:14,110 --> 00:13:15,810 but it was also very personal. 225 00:13:15,876 --> 00:13:20,910 * Music * 226 00:13:20,976 --> 00:13:22,543 Sam: Is there anything else Korn did that was 227 00:13:22,610 --> 00:13:25,476 new and exciting for metal with that first record? 228 00:13:25,543 --> 00:13:27,176 Monte: Korn and bands and band of their ilk basically 229 00:13:27,243 --> 00:13:30,143 took guitars and they down tuned them to previously unheard of 230 00:13:30,210 --> 00:13:33,743 levels and um, you know that's what gives it the heavy sound, 231 00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:36,843 that's what gives it this thick heavy groovy kind of sound. 232 00:13:36,910 --> 00:13:39,443 So you know the down tuning to me would be the number one 233 00:13:39,510 --> 00:13:41,610 characteristic of what makes a band nu-metal. 234 00:13:41,676 --> 00:13:43,810 Rich Ward: All of us were d-tuning at that point, 235 00:13:43,876 --> 00:13:45,610 the difference was the introduction of 236 00:13:45,676 --> 00:13:48,876 the seven string which I call the mud tone. 237 00:13:48,943 --> 00:13:52,943 It basically said that Van Halen and Randy Rhoads were dead, 238 00:13:53,010 --> 00:13:57,376 that the idea of that top end bright aggressive thing 239 00:13:57,443 --> 00:14:00,476 was over and it was the introduction to this 240 00:14:00,543 --> 00:14:03,743 Ross Robinson production technique, no top end, 241 00:14:03,810 --> 00:14:06,143 all about the low end, all about the bump. 242 00:14:06,210 --> 00:14:08,543 Ross Robinson: (imitates sound) The way the low end hits, 243 00:14:08,610 --> 00:14:13,843 you know, it moves something else in your gut that 244 00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:17,510 straight metal doesn't really have the ability to do. 245 00:14:17,576 --> 00:14:21,476 * Music * 246 00:14:21,543 --> 00:14:24,476 Fieldy: Nobody was doing like lower music like that and 247 00:14:24,543 --> 00:14:26,643 we wanted something heavier and lower so I got a 248 00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:29,210 five string bass because it has a lower string on it. 249 00:14:29,276 --> 00:14:31,710 Like the music would be heavier you know lower string 250 00:14:31,776 --> 00:14:33,876 but it was really weird because I don't think Korn 251 00:14:33,943 --> 00:14:36,676 has a bass player because it's not really bass, 252 00:14:36,743 --> 00:14:39,543 it's a percussion style instrument in the band. 253 00:14:39,610 --> 00:14:43,410 I did a lot of like just click sounds of rhythms and I think 254 00:14:43,476 --> 00:14:46,776 that's where I guess I ended up developing the style. 255 00:14:46,843 --> 00:14:52,976 * Music * 256 00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:55,543 >> Korn broadened the scope of metal music by experimenting 257 00:14:55,610 --> 00:14:58,110 with sounds and instrumentation that had never been heard 258 00:14:58,110 --> 00:15:01,576 in the genre but they weren't the only California band 259 00:15:01,643 --> 00:15:04,376 that stretched the boundaries of metal in the mid nineties. 260 00:15:04,443 --> 00:15:14,543 * Music * 261 00:15:14,610 --> 00:15:16,743 Sam: So Sacramento was it a place where heavy music 262 00:15:16,810 --> 00:15:19,476 was popular but also hip-hop and other styles? 263 00:15:19,543 --> 00:15:20,976 Chino Moreno: Yah. I mean it was very, 264 00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:23,676 it was a melting pot of all kinds of sound you know, 265 00:15:23,743 --> 00:15:25,876 we grew up kind of in a, I guess you would call it 266 00:15:25,943 --> 00:15:28,910 the hood whatever and our early roots I think musically 267 00:15:28,976 --> 00:15:31,110 come from a lot of different places from disco to you 268 00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:33,710 know being in the beginning of new wave music. 269 00:15:33,776 --> 00:15:35,476 There's so much great music in all these genres, 270 00:15:35,543 --> 00:15:39,110 why not just you know utilize the best of whatever you like 271 00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:41,676 and put it and hopefully be able to do it so it's not 272 00:15:41,743 --> 00:15:44,610 so contrived you know because to us it was was natural. 273 00:15:44,676 --> 00:15:51,110 * Music * 274 00:15:51,143 --> 00:15:52,876 Chino Moreno: Like we always looked at making riffs that 275 00:15:52,943 --> 00:15:55,410 you could nod your head to, had beat and pulse to it and 276 00:15:55,476 --> 00:15:58,310 that's from listening I think to early rap music but we didn't 277 00:15:58,376 --> 00:16:00,810 think about bringing in turntables into the band to add 278 00:16:00,876 --> 00:16:02,610 a hip-hop element to it, it wasn't that at all. 279 00:16:02,676 --> 00:16:04,610 It was more for soundscapes I think. 280 00:16:04,676 --> 00:16:17,743 * Music * 281 00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:20,743 Adam: The turntable can introduce sounds and 282 00:16:20,810 --> 00:16:23,743 an approach to sound that the classic instruments 283 00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:26,710 won't necessarily be able to do, but at the same time 284 00:16:26,776 --> 00:16:28,643 there are always those fans of metal music 285 00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:31,643 who would probably take an axe to a turntable. 286 00:16:31,710 --> 00:16:33,110 Jon Weiderhorn: The turntable is a tricky 287 00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:34,643 instrument when it comes to heavy metal. 288 00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:37,576 The Deftones were able to use the turntable 289 00:16:37,643 --> 00:16:39,976 as a real instrument however I think gave 290 00:16:40,110 --> 00:16:42,110 a new atmosphere to some of their songs. 291 00:16:42,143 --> 00:16:56,710 * Music * 292 00:16:56,776 --> 00:16:59,510 >> Deftones and Korn created a sound that helped shatter some 293 00:16:59,576 --> 00:17:03,910 of the orthodox of heavy metal music but still nu-metal wasn't 294 00:17:03,976 --> 00:17:06,776 considered a new sub-genre until Brazilian thrash metal 295 00:17:06,843 --> 00:17:10,710 legends Sepultura released their ground breaking album "Roots" 296 00:17:10,776 --> 00:17:33,843 * Music * 297 00:17:33,910 --> 00:17:35,443 Sam: Can you describe where you guys were at 298 00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:37,110 when you made that record? 299 00:17:37,176 --> 00:17:39,176 Max Cavalera: Well one thing Sepultura always said 300 00:17:39,243 --> 00:17:41,643 to ourselves, a commitment, was to never repeat 301 00:17:41,710 --> 00:17:44,810 the same album, no matter what happens. 302 00:17:44,876 --> 00:17:48,010 We're never gonna do the same album again and we already did a 303 00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:50,976 lot of the fast stuff so we thought what else can we do you 304 00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:54,443 know to develop our sound so we started messing around with 305 00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:56,743 rhythms and it was awesome and we're like wow this is 306 00:17:56,810 --> 00:17:58,343 really cool, let's keep this going. 307 00:17:58,410 --> 00:18:05,776 * Music * 308 00:18:05,843 --> 00:18:07,343 Max Cavalera: We felt those grooves, you know like 309 00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:10,510 metal has a groove man that's a great groove, when you do it 310 00:18:10,576 --> 00:18:15,210 right it's killer, it's really contagious and Roots opening 311 00:18:15,276 --> 00:18:18,010 track, the song "Roots Bloody Roots" really total killer 312 00:18:18,110 --> 00:18:21,410 groove song, it's made for festivals. 313 00:18:21,476 --> 00:18:23,976 It's made for 50,000 people jumping up and down, 314 00:18:24,110 --> 00:18:26,810 that's what I still love to play today. 315 00:18:26,876 --> 00:18:28,610 It's one of my favorite songs to play live. 316 00:18:28,676 --> 00:18:42,410 * Music * 317 00:18:42,476 --> 00:18:43,943 Max Cavalera: So in your music you actually do what you 318 00:18:44,010 --> 00:18:46,410 believe you know, we believe in "Roots" you know, the band 319 00:18:46,476 --> 00:18:49,476 totally believe on it so we just went on further. 320 00:18:49,543 --> 00:18:51,610 Monte Connor: Max was basically the guy that spear headed 321 00:18:51,676 --> 00:18:53,976 the movement taking Sepultura in a new metal direction so 322 00:18:54,110 --> 00:18:57,376 the album "Roots" definitely help establish the genre 323 00:18:57,443 --> 00:18:59,410 right along with Korn and Deftones. 324 00:18:59,476 --> 00:19:01,810 Dez Fafara: When we heard them do that we said ok if Sepultura 325 00:19:01,876 --> 00:19:04,543 is gonna come from their roots, you know excuse the pun, 326 00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:07,476 from their roots from doing an album like "Roots" we all said 327 00:19:07,543 --> 00:19:09,643 okay nu-metal is gonna blow up. 328 00:19:09,710 --> 00:19:10,943 That's why you had so many nu-metal bands 329 00:19:11,010 --> 00:19:12,376 coming out of that time. 330 00:19:12,443 --> 00:19:15,676 I mean it blew up so quick that none of us expected it, we all 331 00:19:15,743 --> 00:19:18,576 had our head down and horns out and just kind of driving through 332 00:19:18,643 --> 00:19:21,110 the wind and the American kids were ready to eat that up. 333 00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:29,710 * Music * 334 00:19:29,776 --> 00:19:32,410 Scott Greer: Nu-metal was engaging multiple audiences 335 00:19:32,476 --> 00:19:35,010 those bands were engaging the metal fans, they were engaging 336 00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:37,443 the goth fans, you know and there were some rap fans 337 00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:41,443 brought into the fold so that musical makeup broadened their 338 00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:44,943 appeal and they tapped into all those different fan bases. 339 00:19:45,010 --> 00:19:52,143 * Music * 340 00:19:52,210 --> 00:19:54,643 >> By the late nineties nu-metal was recognized 341 00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:57,676 as a unique underground movement that resonated with heavy 342 00:19:57,743 --> 00:20:02,010 metalers as well as fans of hip-hop and goth music but how 343 00:20:02,076 --> 00:20:05,476 would nu-metal transform from a grass roots sub-genre to a 344 00:20:05,543 --> 00:20:08,010 mainstream movement that swept across America 345 00:20:08,076 --> 00:20:09,543 andthe rest of the world. 346 00:20:09,610 --> 00:20:17,510 * Music * 347 00:20:17,576 --> 00:20:25,443 * Music * 348 00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:27,776 Sam: With the arrival of Limp Bizkit in the late nineties, 349 00:20:27,843 --> 00:20:30,710 the sound of nu-metal started to shift and 350 00:20:30,776 --> 00:20:34,510 bands were now getting heavy rotation on MTV, but not 351 00:20:34,576 --> 00:20:37,176 everyone in the metal community was on board with this, 352 00:20:37,243 --> 00:20:39,810 a lot of fans like myself really didn't like what 353 00:20:39,876 --> 00:20:42,810 Limp Bizkit was doing with the sound of the music. 354 00:20:42,876 --> 00:20:46,410 But given that they had this massive mainstream impact 355 00:20:46,476 --> 00:20:48,543 I'm meeting with Fred Durst because I wanna know about 356 00:20:48,610 --> 00:20:51,276 the ambitions of the band and how they got their start. 357 00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:55,576 Fred Durst: You know I was homeless for a few years and 358 00:20:55,643 --> 00:20:58,710 sort of lost and just skateboarding and making crappy 359 00:20:58,776 --> 00:21:01,843 rap demos and I just didn't think anything was ever gonna 360 00:21:01,910 --> 00:21:05,110 happen for me but I remember hearing that Korn were coming to 361 00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:08,410 town and I said this is my shot, this is my shot. 362 00:21:08,476 --> 00:21:11,243 I got to give these guys my tape, after the show they just 363 00:21:11,310 --> 00:21:13,543 walked out into the crowd and stood there and we started 364 00:21:13,610 --> 00:21:15,643 drinking some beer and hanging and I said we can come back to 365 00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:18,443 my house, you know I do tattoos, I'll give you a free tattoo and 366 00:21:18,510 --> 00:21:20,476 for some reason they were down with going. 367 00:21:20,543 --> 00:21:22,176 Jonathan Davis: You know we were playing this place called 368 00:21:22,243 --> 00:21:26,176 Milk Bar in Jacksonville and I guess those guys frequented 369 00:21:26,243 --> 00:21:28,310 that place, that was their bar, that was their club to hang. 370 00:21:28,376 --> 00:21:29,843 I remember I was playing and I got off stage and 371 00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:32,476 I met Fred and he said he was a tattoo artist. 372 00:21:32,543 --> 00:21:36,210 Fred Durst: So I tattoo on "Head", Brian Welch's lower back 373 00:21:36,276 --> 00:21:38,543 and they bust my balls to this day because you know it says 374 00:21:38,610 --> 00:21:41,143 Korn but they said it says Horn. 375 00:21:41,210 --> 00:21:43,376 Jonathan Davis: He wasn't a great tattoo artist, he kind of 376 00:21:43,443 --> 00:21:46,176 like swindled his way into tattooing, so yah his back says 377 00:21:46,243 --> 00:21:49,110 Horn instead of Korn, you know we always tease him about it. 378 00:21:49,143 --> 00:21:51,343 Fred Durst: It definitely doesn't say Horn because there's 379 00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:55,310 one little piece in there that makes it a K and not an H 380 00:21:55,376 --> 00:21:57,010 and so I gave them a tape. 381 00:21:57,110 --> 00:22:01,543 * Music * 382 00:22:01,610 --> 00:22:03,543 Fred: You know I didn't realize how serious it 383 00:22:03,610 --> 00:22:06,576 was gonna be but Fieldy responded, he responded and he 384 00:22:06,643 --> 00:22:09,243 said man I'm gonna let some people hear this and then I get 385 00:22:09,310 --> 00:22:12,110 a call from Ross Robinson and you know to me it was like whoa 386 00:22:12,176 --> 00:22:15,276 Ross produced Korn's record, like this is unbelievable. 387 00:22:15,343 --> 00:22:18,243 Sam Dunn: What was different about that Limp Bizkit sound? 388 00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:20,510 Ross Robinson: Well actually I kind of felt there was like a 389 00:22:20,576 --> 00:22:23,476 suicidal punk rock thing to it. 390 00:22:23,543 --> 00:22:28,143 * Music * 391 00:22:28,210 --> 00:22:29,810 Ross: Fred was singing about things like being 392 00:22:29,876 --> 00:22:33,743 pissed off at his neighbor and wanting to pee in their yard and 393 00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:36,810 you know just really adolescent things you know that made you 394 00:22:36,876 --> 00:22:40,810 want to like wreck something but obviously he went like complete 395 00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:45,143 rap so it was like an extra thing for metal basically. 396 00:22:45,210 --> 00:22:47,410 Fred: Heavy metal and hip-hop the two worlds 397 00:22:47,476 --> 00:22:50,410 colliding together, I always kind of wanted it to happen. 398 00:22:50,476 --> 00:22:52,810 Even growing up I would take rock records and a 399 00:22:52,876 --> 00:22:56,276 four-track cassette recorder, recording a rock record on 400 00:22:56,343 --> 00:22:59,143 one track and then going and rapping over it. 401 00:22:59,210 --> 00:23:02,810 So when it came to Limp Bizkit I absolutely went on a mission to 402 00:23:02,876 --> 00:23:05,376 make music that was a mixture of those. 403 00:23:05,443 --> 00:23:15,843 * Music * 404 00:23:15,910 --> 00:23:17,643 Adam Rafalovich: According to Limp Bizkit nu-metal was 405 00:23:17,710 --> 00:23:21,643 going to be hard riffing, very groove oriented and it 406 00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:25,210 was gonna have very strict, very specific hip-hop delivery. 407 00:23:25,276 --> 00:23:27,643 Other bands had elements of hip-hop making them 408 00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:30,476 nu-metal bands but Limp Bizkit were basically admitting 409 00:23:30,543 --> 00:23:33,110 that nu-metal was about hip-hop, 410 00:23:33,176 --> 00:23:35,543 that was what appealed to that mass audience. 411 00:23:35,610 --> 00:23:38,476 Wes Borland: The hip-hop and rap combined with you know the metal 412 00:23:38,543 --> 00:23:42,243 stuff, it was like let's take all these things that sound 413 00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:46,443 violent and combine them all together because that just does 414 00:23:46,510 --> 00:23:49,343 something to you, it makes you want to move, it makes you want 415 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:53,243 to dance in a way that metal wasn't making happen before. 416 00:23:53,310 --> 00:23:55,510 So we were constantly experimenting. 417 00:23:55,576 --> 00:23:59,610 * Music * 418 00:23:59,676 --> 00:24:02,110 Sam Dunn: What was your philosophy making 419 00:24:02,176 --> 00:24:05,343 turntables work in Limp Bizkit? 420 00:24:05,410 --> 00:24:07,710 DJ Lethal: When they asked me to join the band I was like, 421 00:24:07,776 --> 00:24:11,843 man I don't wanna just do regular DJ scratches 422 00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:14,510 that everybody is doing you know, my stuff had to be 423 00:24:14,576 --> 00:24:18,110 musical and definitely Tom Morello was an inspiration 424 00:24:18,176 --> 00:24:22,010 as far as how he tries to make other sounds with his guitar, 425 00:24:22,110 --> 00:24:26,110 I wanted to do more rock guitar things on the turntable. 426 00:24:26,176 --> 00:24:30,176 So I ran my turntable through a Marshall stack and I was like, 427 00:24:30,243 --> 00:24:32,510 that's it! That's it right there. 428 00:24:32,576 --> 00:24:35,210 The bottom line was let's have fun with it because 429 00:24:35,276 --> 00:24:37,710 you know a lot of metal bands were just you know, 430 00:24:37,776 --> 00:24:41,443 so serious and they're always like that and they gotta be so 431 00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:45,643 dark and we're like we can be hard and play hardcore 432 00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:48,176 and play riffs and like have fun too. 433 00:24:48,243 --> 00:24:51,676 Fred: Somebody needed to come in and start the (beep) party. 434 00:24:51,743 --> 00:25:04,810 * Music * 435 00:25:04,876 --> 00:25:07,743 >> By 1998 Limp Bizkit and the nu-metal movement 436 00:25:07,810 --> 00:25:10,343 was hitting the mainstream and the driving force 437 00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:12,443 was the Family Values tour. 438 00:25:12,510 --> 00:25:16,210 The first tour to be officially marketed as a nu-metal festival. 439 00:25:16,276 --> 00:25:19,843 Featuring headliners Limp Bizkit and Korn, Family Values played 440 00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:23,743 to nearly a quarter of a million fans and nu-metal was now 441 00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:27,410 overtaking glam and grunge as metal's biggest sub-genre. 442 00:25:28,876 --> 00:25:31,110 Wes Borland: This was a very excessive time, it was like the 443 00:25:31,176 --> 00:25:34,176 eighties came back for a little while in the late nineties. 444 00:25:34,243 --> 00:25:38,110 Like people are tired of seeing small shows, they want to see 445 00:25:38,143 --> 00:25:41,776 big shows now, they want to see big stage sets, big lights and 446 00:25:41,843 --> 00:25:46,176 Family Values being a huge production made an impact, 447 00:25:46,243 --> 00:25:49,143 it made a statement, this is what's happening now, you know 448 00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:52,776 it made us stand out as nu-metal bands on a nu-metal tour. 449 00:25:52,843 --> 00:25:54,810 Fred: It just kept building and building and pretty 450 00:25:54,876 --> 00:25:58,176 soon it was like we were on our own, we could go out and 451 00:25:58,243 --> 00:25:59,710 headline as Limp Bizkit. 452 00:25:59,776 --> 00:26:02,810 Family Values was definitely the match that started that fire. 453 00:26:02,876 --> 00:26:15,110 * Music * 454 00:26:15,176 --> 00:26:17,676 Sam Dunn: To what extent was Limp Bizkit's approach 455 00:26:17,743 --> 00:26:20,476 more commercial than Deftones or Korn? 456 00:26:20,543 --> 00:26:23,543 Jon Weiderhorn: I think at first Limp Bizkit's sound and approach 457 00:26:23,610 --> 00:26:26,510 wasn't any more commercial than Korn's, at least on 458 00:26:26,576 --> 00:26:29,676 "Three Dollar Bill, Yall$" but when they built a net to 459 00:26:29,743 --> 00:26:32,543 "Significant Other" they really made the cash grab. 460 00:26:32,610 --> 00:26:36,576 You have a single like "Nookie" which for some reason blew into 461 00:26:36,643 --> 00:26:40,510 the stratosphere and was huger than huge and in the mainstream 462 00:26:40,576 --> 00:26:44,010 eye that was a sign that nu-metal had gone supernova. 463 00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:58,710 * Music * 464 00:26:58,776 --> 00:27:00,910 Wes Borland: Things were so out of control by that point, 465 00:27:00,976 --> 00:27:04,010 the audiences just ate it up, they couldn't get enough. 466 00:27:04,110 --> 00:27:06,143 I mean it was ridiculous. 467 00:27:06,210 --> 00:27:08,676 Fred: I just remember thinking, oh my God you know I'm 468 00:27:08,743 --> 00:27:12,243 a rock star now and I'm meeting musicians that I've always 469 00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:15,643 admired and Hugh Hefner keeps calling me to come to his house 470 00:27:15,710 --> 00:27:18,110 and I'm hanging out with all of these playmates and this is 471 00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:21,343 crazy, you know I'm gonna eat it up while I can. 472 00:27:21,410 --> 00:27:24,443 I was just living you know, I wasn't thinking too far ahead. 473 00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:28,310 What's going on? 474 00:27:28,376 --> 00:27:30,143 We're just shooting a video. 475 00:27:30,210 --> 00:27:31,443 We're shooting a video. 476 00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:32,710 We're not having it. 477 00:27:32,776 --> 00:27:34,410 Get in the car. 478 00:27:35,176 --> 00:27:37,210 Hey. 479 00:27:37,310 --> 00:27:38,143 Hey!! 480 00:27:41,210 --> 00:27:44,576 (Police Sirens) 481 00:27:48,910 --> 00:27:51,543 Crowd: Woodstock '99! 482 00:27:52,776 --> 00:27:55,476 VH-1 Reporter: This is Woodstock '99 baby whoa! 483 00:27:55,543 --> 00:27:57,910 (Crowd cheering) 484 00:27:57,976 --> 00:27:59,410 VH-1 Reporter: We're in Rome, NY not far from 485 00:27:59,476 --> 00:28:01,976 the original Woodstock site but of course things are a little 486 00:28:02,110 --> 00:28:05,910 different in 1999 than they were in 1969. 487 00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:10,476 >> In July 1999 nearly a half a million music fans 488 00:28:10,543 --> 00:28:14,343 descended on the small town of Rome in upstate New York 489 00:28:14,410 --> 00:28:17,643 tocommemorate the 30th anniversary of Woodstock. 490 00:28:17,710 --> 00:28:20,610 Among the dozens of performers over the three-day festival were 491 00:28:20,676 --> 00:28:23,643 Rage Against The Machine, Korn and Limp Bizkit. 492 00:28:25,243 --> 00:28:27,676 Sam: What are your memories of that show and what do you 493 00:28:27,743 --> 00:28:33,276 think it did for this movement of heavy music? 494 00:28:34,776 --> 00:28:36,710 Fred Durst: Well they were really pushing this movement, 495 00:28:36,776 --> 00:28:40,943 hard, it was like this break out metal festival with a few other 496 00:28:41,010 --> 00:28:43,576 artists sprinkled in and I remember getting there 497 00:28:43,643 --> 00:28:46,110 and just going, oh my God look at this place, 498 00:28:46,176 --> 00:28:49,376 this is Woodstock what an honor, how amazing. 499 00:28:49,443 --> 00:28:53,243 I mean it was definitely the highlight of rap metal music. 500 00:28:53,976 --> 00:28:55,010 * Music * 501 00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:56,943 Jonathan Davis: Come on Woodstock! 502 00:28:58,276 --> 00:29:00,410 For us too It was crazy, I think it was the greatest show 503 00:29:00,476 --> 00:29:03,110 we ever played or are ever gonna play. 504 00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:07,010 It was amazing to play in front of 400,000 plus people and 505 00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:09,176 they all get it and be right there with us 506 00:29:09,243 --> 00:29:10,710 and feel what we're doing. 507 00:29:10,776 --> 00:29:13,543 It was amazing to see people jumping to the music and because 508 00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:15,343 there were so many people, seeing how the sound travels, 509 00:29:15,410 --> 00:29:18,643 seeing the waves of people jumping, it was just ridiculous. 510 00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:23,676 * Music * 511 00:29:23,743 --> 00:29:26,543 Fieldy: Woodstock '99 was unforgettable, that was a 512 00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:29,710 pretty big moment, that was the biggest moment in our career. 513 00:29:29,776 --> 00:29:32,943 It was so intense, never done anything like that before, 514 00:29:33,010 --> 00:29:33,943 still haven't. 515 00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:46,743 * Music * 516 00:29:46,810 --> 00:29:48,510 Jonathan Davis: We rocked that place that first night and 517 00:29:48,576 --> 00:29:50,476 everybody had fun but the second night Limp Bizkit 518 00:29:50,543 --> 00:29:54,010 (beep) it up for everyone, they really did. 519 00:29:54,110 --> 00:29:59,376 Announcer: You want the worst, well you got the worst, 520 00:29:59,476 --> 00:30:07,676 the one, the only, Limp Bizkit. 521 00:30:10,210 --> 00:30:12,310 Wes Borland: I mean it was wildfire, there was people 522 00:30:12,376 --> 00:30:15,776 everywhere and when we finally went up to play 523 00:30:15,843 --> 00:30:18,976 it was like middle of the day and we had like the 524 00:30:19,043 --> 00:30:21,976 best slot to where the energy would be super high, 525 00:30:22,043 --> 00:30:24,610 so we just got up and we played our show. 526 00:30:24,676 --> 00:30:27,643 Fred Durst: We walked on stage and it was that wave of people 527 00:30:27,710 --> 00:30:31,476 bouncing as far as you could see, hundreds of thousands of 528 00:30:31,543 --> 00:30:35,110 people and it was the most amazing adrenaline pumping 529 00:30:35,176 --> 00:30:38,576 moment that I ever experienced and I was so amped 530 00:30:38,643 --> 00:30:40,510 and ready to rock and we just did what we do. 531 00:30:40,576 --> 00:30:45,210 * Music * 532 00:30:45,276 --> 00:30:46,543 Fred Durst: But I guess things started to go bad during 533 00:30:46,610 --> 00:30:48,476 you know our song "Break Stuff". 534 00:30:48,543 --> 00:30:54,476 * Music * 535 00:30:54,543 --> 00:30:56,110 Fred Durst: You know it is what it is, it was just me 536 00:30:56,176 --> 00:30:58,310 doing my thing because during our performance 537 00:30:58,376 --> 00:31:00,643 I saw people surfing on plywood. 538 00:31:02,476 --> 00:31:04,110 That's some tight (beep) right there, that crowd surfing on the plywood. 539 00:31:06,210 --> 00:31:09,276 I was like, that's (beep) amazing, how cool is that, 540 00:31:09,343 --> 00:31:12,776 I'm gonna go do it, so I jumped down off the stage and I go out 541 00:31:12,843 --> 00:31:15,743 in the crowd and I'm telling them to bring the plywood over 542 00:31:15,810 --> 00:31:19,576 here and they're surfing it over and I get up on it and 543 00:31:19,643 --> 00:31:23,110 I just start rocking on the plywood you know 544 00:31:23,143 --> 00:31:24,410 I'm partying with you guys, you know, I wanna be out here 545 00:31:24,476 --> 00:31:26,610 in the crowd with you, this is amazing. 546 00:31:26,676 --> 00:31:30,410 I had no idea there was anything negative going on at all. 547 00:31:30,476 --> 00:31:34,110 You got your problems, you got a problem with me, 548 00:31:34,176 --> 00:31:36,576 you got a problem with yourself, it's time to take 549 00:31:36,643 --> 00:31:40,110 all that negative energy and put it the (beep) out. 550 00:31:41,610 --> 00:31:44,010 I don't think they understood that I meant okay let's get rid 551 00:31:44,110 --> 00:31:48,976 of all that negativity so we can bring positive in. 552 00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:52,476 That means start jumping, you know jumping and singing, it 553 00:31:52,543 --> 00:31:55,576 doesn't mean start raping and burning the place down, 554 00:31:55,643 --> 00:31:57,576 that's definitely not what I meant. 555 00:31:57,643 --> 00:32:08,476 * Music * 556 00:32:11,976 --> 00:32:13,676 Fred: I remember getting off the stage and having 557 00:32:13,743 --> 00:32:16,576 some policeman with my manager come around me and say, 558 00:32:16,643 --> 00:32:19,743 "Fred I think you kind of incited a riot", they started 559 00:32:19,810 --> 00:32:23,110 ripping down the buildings and the scaffolding and that's the 560 00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:25,410 plywood you were surfing on, that wasn't from walkways going 561 00:32:25,476 --> 00:32:28,143 to the restroom, they were tearing down things and there 562 00:32:28,210 --> 00:32:30,143 was people getting hurt and I go I didn't see any of that, 563 00:32:30,210 --> 00:32:32,943 everybody I saw was having an amazing time. 564 00:32:33,010 --> 00:32:35,010 Jonathan Davis: Fred with his like, c'mon let's break stuff in 565 00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:37,843 that song, him doing that, it just sent it over the top and 566 00:32:37,910 --> 00:32:39,310 that's when all that stuff happened. 567 00:32:39,376 --> 00:32:41,410 There was people hurt, people got beat up, hit, 568 00:32:41,476 --> 00:32:44,010 all this craziness, he instigated the whole damn thing, 569 00:32:44,110 --> 00:32:45,643 I was right there watching it. 570 00:32:45,710 --> 00:32:49,343 Jon Weiderhorn: It wasn't a fun Woodstock type love fest, 571 00:32:49,410 --> 00:32:52,543 it really turned violent, it turned ugly, it was really a 572 00:32:52,610 --> 00:32:55,810 dark moment in music and instead of stopping the show 573 00:32:55,876 --> 00:32:58,110 Fred Durst stoked the flames. 574 00:32:58,110 --> 00:33:01,410 News Anchor: Three days of music peace and love ended with arson 575 00:33:01,476 --> 00:33:04,976 and rioting early today at Woodstock '99. 576 00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:07,610 >> Whatever the reasons concertgoers began destroying 577 00:33:07,676 --> 00:33:10,643 property, starting fires and rioting. 578 00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:14,176 >> Scatted bonfires raged out of control for several hours as 579 00:33:14,243 --> 00:33:16,810 vending stalls were looted and light towers toppled. 580 00:33:16,876 --> 00:33:19,243 >> Was Woodstock's '99 firery end enough 581 00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:21,710 to shroud the event in regret? 582 00:33:21,776 --> 00:33:23,710 Fred Durst: All I can say is that when we were on stage our 583 00:33:23,776 --> 00:33:27,110 experience was that it was the greatest concert of all time and 584 00:33:27,143 --> 00:33:30,276 I had no idea that the finger would be pointed at me as a 585 00:33:30,343 --> 00:33:34,476 guy staring a riot but I guess you know to this day, 586 00:33:34,543 --> 00:33:37,476 it's gonna be something that Limp Bizkit (beep) up. 587 00:33:37,543 --> 00:33:39,576 Tom Morello: His music kind of started with the idea 588 00:33:39,643 --> 00:33:42,343 of making powerful music that had a message 589 00:33:42,410 --> 00:33:44,376 that was about integrity and unity and 590 00:33:44,443 --> 00:33:47,410 this kind of solidarity between band and crowd and then it 591 00:33:47,476 --> 00:33:50,910 became you know a bunch of thugs raping women in the pit 592 00:33:50,976 --> 00:33:52,943 and then burning the festival to the ground. 593 00:33:53,010 --> 00:33:55,976 We popularized this genre, which now is totally just run amuck. 594 00:33:56,110 --> 00:33:59,176 I just thought man this is, what have we done. 595 00:34:00,743 --> 00:34:02,210 Monte Connor: When I think of Woodstock I think of that 596 00:34:02,276 --> 00:34:03,643 incident with Limp Bizkit and the stuff that happened there 597 00:34:03,710 --> 00:34:06,210 was kind of like the way Altamont was you know like you 598 00:34:06,276 --> 00:34:09,243 had the original Woodstock being this amazing music festival and 599 00:34:09,310 --> 00:34:12,876 Altamont being the point where like you know, the sixties 600 00:34:12,943 --> 00:34:15,243 culture jumped the shark. Maybe that was the 601 00:34:15,310 --> 00:34:18,176 turning point where things had gotten out of hand. 602 00:34:18,243 --> 00:34:20,443 Tom Morello: That music became sort of excess in spectacle 603 00:34:20,510 --> 00:34:24,410 and disrespect to audience and peers in a way that you 604 00:34:24,476 --> 00:34:28,176 saw most awful heights of the hair metal bands. 605 00:34:28,243 --> 00:34:31,010 Fred: This character Fred Durst thing, this monster that 606 00:34:31,110 --> 00:34:34,010 was created, you know it sort of backfired on me, 607 00:34:34,110 --> 00:34:36,976 there was always negativity thrown at Limp Bizkit, 608 00:34:37,110 --> 00:34:39,543 nobody really wanted us here in the first place. 609 00:34:39,610 --> 00:34:42,176 You know nobody really wanted rap in the first place and 610 00:34:42,243 --> 00:34:45,210 nobody really wanted metal in the normal world. 611 00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:49,276 So rap metal, oh (beep), now the metal guys don't want it and the 612 00:34:49,343 --> 00:34:53,010 rappers don't want the metal so I just think that it was, 613 00:34:53,110 --> 00:35:02,243 I'm just that guy I guess, yah maybe I'm that guy. 614 00:35:02,310 --> 00:35:05,110 >> Despite the fallout and backlash after Woodstock '99 615 00:35:05,176 --> 00:35:07,810 the nu-metal movement didn't die and in fact 616 00:35:07,876 --> 00:35:11,943 it continued to grow and it was so pervasive that even one of 617 00:35:12,010 --> 00:35:14,876 metal's biggest bands embraced the nu-metal sound. 618 00:35:14,943 --> 00:35:25,276 * Music * 619 00:35:25,343 --> 00:35:27,376 Sam Dunn: Tell me about "Diabolus in Musica", what kind 620 00:35:27,443 --> 00:35:30,943 of direction were you guys going in on that record? 621 00:35:31,010 --> 00:35:34,843 Kerry King: That's the one record that I really paid not 622 00:35:34,910 --> 00:35:36,876 enough attention to because I was really bitter 623 00:35:36,943 --> 00:35:39,010 about the kind of music that was popular. 624 00:35:39,110 --> 00:35:42,110 I thought it was very frat boy stuff and 625 00:35:42,110 --> 00:35:43,943 maybe that's why it was popular, I don't know. 626 00:35:44,010 --> 00:35:46,343 So "Diabolus" didn't get as much attention from me 627 00:35:46,410 --> 00:35:48,676 because you know we didn't stay in focus. 628 00:35:48,743 --> 00:35:58,110 * Music * 629 00:35:58,176 --> 00:36:00,476 Kevin Estrada: Slayer were very influenced at 630 00:36:00,543 --> 00:36:03,110 one point by the power of nu-metal, 631 00:36:03,110 --> 00:36:06,443 the Diabolica album was very nu-metal, had very nu-metal 632 00:36:06,510 --> 00:36:09,810 elements throughout, Kerry's riffs changed, you know the 633 00:36:09,876 --> 00:36:13,110 solos weren't as chaotic so it was a little worrisome seeing 634 00:36:13,110 --> 00:36:17,110 that Slayer gave in to that you know, of all bands Slayer, 635 00:36:17,110 --> 00:36:19,776 the kings of thrash metal were starting to sound nu-metal. 636 00:36:19,843 --> 00:36:25,176 * Music * 637 00:36:25,243 --> 00:36:26,943 Kevin: You know they're playing tours with the 638 00:36:27,010 --> 00:36:29,110 Deftones and they're playing tours with Korn and they're 639 00:36:29,110 --> 00:36:30,976 playing to that crowd and I think that had a lot 640 00:36:31,110 --> 00:36:33,943 to do with it, they wanted to connect with their audience. 641 00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:35,810 Phil Anselmo: It's kneeling to what was popular you know, 642 00:36:35,876 --> 00:36:39,910 remember when Kiss went disco when we were kids. 643 00:36:39,976 --> 00:36:42,243 Trying to stay up with the times. 644 00:36:42,310 --> 00:36:44,176 Kerry King: Looking back we were just saying all right how do we 645 00:36:44,243 --> 00:36:47,310 make Slayer fit into today's society but that's probably my 646 00:36:47,376 --> 00:36:50,143 least favorite record of our history, that's our "Turbo" 647 00:36:50,210 --> 00:36:52,010 (Laughs). 648 00:36:52,110 --> 00:36:56,976 * Music * 649 00:36:57,110 --> 00:36:59,310 >> After "Diabolus in Musica", Slayer returned 650 00:36:59,376 --> 00:37:02,810 to their thrash metal sound in the early 2000's and it 651 00:37:02,876 --> 00:37:06,176 seemed that the nu-metal movement was starting to die off 652 00:37:06,243 --> 00:37:08,710 but then a second wave of bands emerged that were 653 00:37:08,776 --> 00:37:10,876 labeled nu-metal but broadened the sound 654 00:37:10,943 --> 00:37:13,610 of a sub-genre and heavy metal as a whole. 655 00:37:13,676 --> 00:37:39,276 * Music * 656 00:37:39,343 --> 00:37:44,110 Sam: What was the music and rock and metal climate like at that time? 657 00:37:44,176 --> 00:37:47,310 David Draiman: It was a very unique time because we got 658 00:37:47,376 --> 00:37:50,943 lumped into the category of nu-metal but we never really had 659 00:37:51,010 --> 00:37:54,843 any association with that stylistically, we never rapped, 660 00:37:54,910 --> 00:37:58,010 we never had a DJ or a turntable or anything like that. 661 00:37:58,110 --> 00:37:59,643 Bands like the Deftones and Korn 662 00:37:59,710 --> 00:38:03,110 had their hip-hop and rap influences. 663 00:38:03,176 --> 00:38:05,010 For me it was much more reggae. 664 00:38:05,110 --> 00:38:21,143 * Music * 665 00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:22,776 Dan Donegan: I never really worried about what the 666 00:38:22,843 --> 00:38:25,976 categories were, we're metal, we're not metal, we're not metal 667 00:38:26,110 --> 00:38:29,843 enough, you know we're rock whatever, it doesn't really 668 00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:32,910 phase me, obviously we came up at a time where this whole 669 00:38:32,976 --> 00:38:37,110 nu-metal genre came up and it was great for us, 670 00:38:37,110 --> 00:38:39,543 we were able to ride the wave of that because 671 00:38:39,610 --> 00:38:41,943 so many bands were getting snatched up at the time. 672 00:38:42,010 --> 00:38:52,843 * Music * 673 00:38:52,910 --> 00:38:54,343 Jacoby Shaddix: The public had like had enough of 674 00:38:54,410 --> 00:38:57,210 Limp Bizkit, had enough of (beep) Korn and it was just 675 00:38:57,276 --> 00:39:00,243 like the whole wave of new bands came through that kicked down 676 00:39:00,310 --> 00:39:02,176 the door for us so it wasn't that hard for us to just 677 00:39:02,243 --> 00:39:06,843 stampede through and sell (beep) six million records, you know. 678 00:39:06,910 --> 00:39:09,110 Nic Adler: The music industry at that time was very hungry, 679 00:39:09,176 --> 00:39:12,510 I mean the best sales in the history of the music business 680 00:39:12,576 --> 00:39:15,410 were during that time, people were looking for bands that were 681 00:39:15,476 --> 00:39:18,676 that nu-metal style but young new and fresh. 682 00:39:18,743 --> 00:39:23,376 * Music * 683 00:39:23,443 --> 00:39:25,110 >> The second wave of nu-metal bands not only 684 00:39:25,176 --> 00:39:29,010 expanded the sound of the genre, they also pushed nu-metal to 685 00:39:29,110 --> 00:39:32,776 even higher levels of commercial success and the band that took 686 00:39:32,843 --> 00:39:35,776 nu-metal to it's commercial peak was Linkin Park. 687 00:39:35,843 --> 00:39:48,110 * Music * 688 00:39:48,176 --> 00:39:49,376 Sam Dunn: As you know I mean the next 689 00:39:49,443 --> 00:39:51,910 big band was Linkin Park, what was your impression 690 00:39:51,976 --> 00:39:53,543 of what those guys were doing? 691 00:39:53,610 --> 00:39:55,176 Jonathan Davis: They did this really cool thing where they 692 00:39:55,243 --> 00:39:58,443 incorporated melody and singing with a rapper, so you had the 693 00:39:58,510 --> 00:40:01,310 best of both worlds and they didn't go too heavy or spooky, 694 00:40:01,376 --> 00:40:05,110 it's stuff that I guess "normal folk" could palette. 695 00:40:05,176 --> 00:40:11,376 * Music * 696 00:40:11,443 --> 00:40:13,010 Adam Rafalovich: With Linkin Park there wasn't the 697 00:40:13,076 --> 00:40:16,443 same degree of overt harshness in the approach, 698 00:40:16,510 --> 00:40:18,943 it was a little bit softer, a little bit, it seemed like a 699 00:40:19,010 --> 00:40:22,110 little more of a gentle metal and for that reason you know, 700 00:40:22,176 --> 00:40:24,876 it had incredible commercial viability. 701 00:40:24,943 --> 00:40:27,043 Nic Adler: When they turned it on and they were ready to go, 702 00:40:27,110 --> 00:40:31,276 I don't recall a band taking off faster than Linkin Park. 703 00:40:31,343 --> 00:40:34,676 It was ten days from being this band that I knew as a band that 704 00:40:34,743 --> 00:40:37,610 played The Roxy to seeing them on MTV and being number one. 705 00:40:37,676 --> 00:40:45,176 * Music * 706 00:40:45,243 --> 00:40:47,276 >> Despite the massive success of Linkin Park and the 707 00:40:47,343 --> 00:40:50,810 second wave of nu-metal bands, much like glam metal back 708 00:40:50,876 --> 00:40:53,876 in the eighties, nu-metal's lasting legacy seems to be the 709 00:40:53,943 --> 00:40:57,243 way it deeply divided the metal community and given that 710 00:40:57,310 --> 00:41:00,276 I wasn't a fan of this style, I'm still struggling 711 00:41:00,343 --> 00:41:03,376 to understand why nu-metal became so popular. 712 00:41:04,843 --> 00:41:06,876 Sam Dunn: Linkin Park fans, can you tell me why you like them? 713 00:41:06,943 --> 00:41:08,110 Fan: Why we like Linkin Park? 714 00:41:08,110 --> 00:41:09,276 Sam Dunn: Why you like Linkin Park? 715 00:41:09,343 --> 00:41:11,010 Because they're the best, we love the rock and 716 00:41:11,110 --> 00:41:12,743 the hip-hop mixed in. They're original. 717 00:41:12,810 --> 00:41:15,143 They're very original, every album sounds completely different. 718 00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:17,410 What I like about them is that they've always try 719 00:41:17,476 --> 00:41:20,810 to stay away from the conventional type of music. 720 00:41:20,876 --> 00:41:23,110 They don't fit into any genre, they are their own genre. 721 00:41:23,143 --> 00:41:24,310 They're Linkin Park. 722 00:41:24,376 --> 00:41:25,843 Sam Dunn: How come I didn't like it? 723 00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:29,710 Fan: Laughs, I don't know. 724 00:41:29,776 --> 00:41:30,976 Sam Dunn: Wrong crowd, wrong crowd. 725 00:41:31,110 --> 00:41:33,610 Fan: Everyone has their own opinions. 726 00:41:33,676 --> 00:41:37,110 Sam Dunn: Looking back over all this music that you have been a 727 00:41:37,110 --> 00:41:40,710 part of, what does that term nu-metal mean to you now? 728 00:41:40,776 --> 00:41:42,743 Fred Durst: Well I don't know how many people still use 729 00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:46,176 the term but I'm extremely proud to be part of 730 00:41:46,243 --> 00:41:49,243 the nu-metal movement and I'm proud of everything 731 00:41:49,310 --> 00:41:54,610 that we have accomplished and everything we've (beep) up. 732 00:41:55,876 --> 00:41:56,876 Jonathan Davis: I felt proud that we helped 733 00:41:56,943 --> 00:41:58,510 innovate a movement, very proud. 734 00:41:58,576 --> 00:42:01,376 Who cares whatever they call it I guess now, all I know is we're 735 00:42:01,443 --> 00:42:03,010 still here and we're still doing what we're doing 736 00:42:03,110 --> 00:42:04,876 and they're gonna call us the nu-metal godfathers for 737 00:42:04,943 --> 00:42:07,810 the rest of our damn lives. So I guess I'm gonna deal with it. 738 00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:09,810 Monte Connor: It's a dirty word today but not to the extent of 739 00:42:09,876 --> 00:42:13,143 hair metal, you know like people will turn their nose up at it 740 00:42:13,210 --> 00:42:16,110 and make jokes and stuff but I think nu-metal definitely still 741 00:42:16,176 --> 00:42:18,943 has some kind of cache to it and it is still alive, 742 00:42:19,010 --> 00:42:21,110 I mean any of those bands they're just so part of the 743 00:42:21,110 --> 00:42:23,976 fabric of metal at this point they're not called nu-metal. 744 00:42:24,110 --> 00:42:25,810 Jon Weiderhorn: I think the term nu-metal has been kind of 745 00:42:25,876 --> 00:42:28,976 poisoned and it's a kind of a shame because the types of sound 746 00:42:29,110 --> 00:42:32,110 that were being presented to audiences enabled them to open 747 00:42:32,143 --> 00:42:36,110 their minds and say metal doesn't have to be rooted in 748 00:42:36,110 --> 00:42:40,810 this sort of Black Sabbath, Metallica arc of acceptability, 749 00:42:40,876 --> 00:42:44,310 you know maybe metal doesn't have to be one thing. 750 00:42:44,376 --> 00:42:54,610 * Music * 751 00:42:54,676 --> 00:42:56,476 >> Before I set out to explore nu-metal, 752 00:42:56,543 --> 00:42:59,476 I questioned whether it even belonged in the story of heavy 753 00:42:59,543 --> 00:43:02,843 metal, but I've discovered although the term nu-metal may 754 00:43:02,910 --> 00:43:06,143 be dead, many of the bands continue to thrive and have 755 00:43:06,210 --> 00:43:09,410 brought some real innovation to metal music and so ultimately 756 00:43:09,476 --> 00:43:12,843 I've realized that nu-metal has made a much bigger contribution 757 00:43:12,910 --> 00:43:16,010 to the evolution of heavy metal than I ever imagined. 758 00:43:16,110 --> 00:43:17,676 * Music * 759 00:43:17,743 --> 00:43:47,110 *