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* Music *

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Sam Dunn: Back when we did
'Metal: A Headbanger's Journey'

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we created this gigantic 24
sub-genre family tree of Metal,

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we included grunge so we
kind of committed ourselves

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to this idea that Grunge is part
of the story of Heavy Metal.

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But not everyone sees it that
way, people connect it also

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to the story of punk or garage
rock or of alternative music,

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and so I've come to Seattle
the home of Grunge to meet

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with people and find out if
really Grunge does belong

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in the evolution
of Heavy Metal.

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* Music *

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* Intro *

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>> Back in the early 90's
growing up in Victoria, Canada

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just a 2-hour boat ride from
Seattle grunge was huge,

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and whether you were a punk,
skater or a metal head

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we all agreed metal was a
part of the sound of grunge,

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but I've always wanted
to know if the Seattle

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grunge musicians themselves
saw their music

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as a part of the history
of heavy metal.

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Sam: What in your opinion
does grunge have to do
with heavy metal music?

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Mark Arm: Umm, I dunno, a lot
of it is heavy. (laughs)

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Sam: Is Grunge metal?

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Kim Warnick: (Laughs) Well
people think it is, and I guess

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it might be a little bit but
I don't really believe it is.

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Brendan O'Brien: Some of the
music was pointedly aggressive

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and I guess some of that would
be considered you know metal,

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but I you know don't think any
of us thought of it in that way.

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Steve Albini: The heavy metal
tradition always had a kind

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of emphasis on
virtuosity or on vulgar

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exhibitionist
musical tendencies.

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There was always a kind of
flamboyance, almost a camp

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element to heavy metal and
the grunge bands were all

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much more straight forward
in their presentation.

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There wasn't a fireworks show,
there wasn't a wall of Marshall

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amplifiers, there wasn't a
massive drum kit, and in a lot

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of cases the musicianship was
not necessarily, rudimentary is

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the wrong way to put it, it
was functional musicianship.

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* Music *

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Sam: Why do you think that
sometimes Grunge hasn't

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been included in
the story of metal?

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Jeff Gilbert: I think it
was probably in grunge's

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best interest that it wasn't
associated with heavy metal

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because heavy metal came
with connotations,

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goofy ones at that. You know
fashion not thrashin'.

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Kim Thayil: What was considered
metal then was this

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kind of hair farmer
spandex music for

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the future house
wives of America.

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Sam: Even though you were heavy
you werent' what people...

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Kim: Those bands sounded
like The Partridge Family

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with fuzzy guitars that's
what they sounded like.

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We didn't sound like that,
we didn't look like that.

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Michael Azerrad: You had
Poison and Warrant and

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bands like that defining
pretty much what

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metal was at least in the
popular imagination.

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When grunge broke through
you had metal's pension

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for the big and the overblown
and the macho particularly the

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hair metal bands there was
just no place for that.

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Melissa Auf Der Maur: The
attitude was so ridiculous

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over the top, and so decadent
and indulgent and dumbass,

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like it was jock
mixed with metal and

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that's not okay for
intelligent people.

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Steve: All that hairspray
music was just a total

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(beep) joke to us, that
was music for (beep).

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* Music *

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>> It's clear that grunge
musicians were totally opposed

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to the sonic and visual
excesses of glam and

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this seems to explain why
these musicians distanced

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themselves from heavy metal
back in the early 90's.

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But I'm wondering if
grunge's connection to

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heavy metal might
lie elsewhere.

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Sam: To what extent was what you
were doing metal do you think?

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Hiro Yamamoto: Ohh I don't know
(laughs) I mean it was dark

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and there was kind
of an edge to it,

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I don't know if you would
call it like heavy metal.

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Grunge was definitely more of
a punk rock kind of attitude,

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although I mean you could say
Metallica is kind of a punk rock

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kind of attitude too so that's
what kind of makes it similar,

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I mean it was heavy music, loud
guitars, real blatantly powerful

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drums, real kicking, screaming,
posturing on stage,

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that was what made
it more metal.

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* Music *

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Sam: What do you make of
the argument that grunge IS
actually part of metal?

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Brian Slagel: I completely
agree, sounded like metal to me,

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I liked it and a lot of metal
people I knew liked it too.

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Sam: What metal bands were
you influenced by when you
were growing up?

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Kurt Danielson: Iron Maiden and
the first Van Halen record,

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I remember it came
out the same year as

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"Never Mind The Bollocks" and
I had both of those records.

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So long as it was loud there
was a lot of heavy guitar,

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it was worthy of turning
up the volume and annoying
my parents with it.

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Sam: The sense I'm getting when
I talk to people in Seattle

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is the same, that in an
early stage a lot of them

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were influenced by
a lot of metal

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Buzz Osbourne: Absolutely, no
question to that.

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I know that Jeff from Pearl
Jam was really into Venom

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and Hellhammer and
all that stuff.

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I mean that stuff was really
easy to like you know;

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it was good you know, I
still like that stuff.

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Mark: For me there are some
bands that are like considered

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metal that are near and dear to
my heart like Black Sabbath

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first and foremost and
Blue Cheer and Motorhead,

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there's none of the super
technical things that veers

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on the part of metal that
I don't really like.

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* Music *

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Jeff: All the grunge guys
literally came from a

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heavy metal background,
drinking beer and listening

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to Van Halen in
your car stereo.

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Everybody had that same starting
point, where it separated off

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was when the grunge guys
discovered and ran with punk and

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the metal guys just
stayed right where they are.

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Jack Endino: It seemed to me
like it was taking up from a

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place where metal and heavy rock
left off in 1976 and was now

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sort of going back there
and picking up the pieces and

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throwing some punk rock
influence in and starting over.

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I thought this is a continuation
of seventies heavy rock with

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some punk ethos thrown in here
and a healthy respect for noise.

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* Music *

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>> While grunge musicians
detested glam metal, they were

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deeply influenced by the British
and American metal bands of the

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sixties and the seventies and
so grunge's connection to the

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history of metal is becoming
more clear to me but what I

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still don't understand is, what
exactly is the sound of grunge

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and why did Seattle
become the home to this music?

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* Music *

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>> Throughout the series
I've learned that many metal

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sub-genres are born in
cities that shaped the sound and

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attitude of music, from
early metal in Birmingham

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in the late '60s to Bay
area thrash in the '80s.

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So I'm curious to find out
how the city of Seattle

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may have influenced
Grunge music.

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* Music *

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Sam: I'm curious to know if you
feel that there was anything

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in terms of the character or the
culture or the music history

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of Seattle that allowed for
this scene to develop?

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Kurt Danielson: Well there's
always been interesting

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music coming out of
Seattle. If you look back,

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Hendrix came from Seattle,
Quincy Jones is from the
Northwest,

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The Sonics' the garage band from
the '60s that still exists.

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* Music *

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Jack Endino: In the '60s
you had bands like

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The Sonics and The Wailers.

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They were club bands, they
played dances, they played clubs

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and they made records that
are still influential now.

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You had this garage influence
on Seattle grunge and

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you had this '70s hard
rock influence on

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Seattle grunge all
being mixed together.

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Michael Azerrad: You know
Seattle is a real bastion a real

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haven for hard rock and
metal. Metal Church came

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from around there, Queensryche,
Heart came from there.

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Sam: Why Seattle?

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Was there something here
that provided a back drop?

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Jeff Gilbert: The
weather, the economy,

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the lack of good paying jobs.

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There's not a whole lot to do
up here if you're just like

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watching paint dry and uh
mopping up rain water

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that seeps into every single
basement in Seattle.

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Buzz Osbourne: It's
very wet in Seattle

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so it's like living
inside of a shell fish.

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That's the best way
of describing it.

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Dale Crover: There's a lot of
underage drinking going on.

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Buzz: Over-age drinking too.

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Michael: Seattle did have this
blue-collar tradition of

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people making planes and
cutting down trees,

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slicing them up and shipping
them off somewhere.

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That appealed to a hard rock
metal friendly audience

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but Seattle is also a university
town and in the '80s

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there started to be a white
collar thing happening,

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it became a yuppie city as well
so you had these 2 aspects of

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Seattle, you had hard rocking
metal people and then you had

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those kinda college kids who
were into punk rock and more

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underground music and that's
how grunge really happened.

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It's such a small town and you
have these 2 opposite strains

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of music and they
just came together.

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* Music *

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Mark Arm: Seattle was an
outpost at the time,

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a lot of bands did not bother
touring Seattle so we just

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did stuff to please
ourselves and our friends.

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Shows were like parties, it
wasn't like there was a

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barrier really between
the crowd and the band.

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Kurt: It was as if we were
paying more attention to our

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friends' bands, we were
influenced more by Green River,

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what Soundgarden was doing or
what The Melvins were doing or

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Malfunkshun was doing as
opposed to the bigger

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commercial successes
from elsewhere.

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Jeff: Soundgarden would
play down at the Vogue,

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Alice in Chains over
at the Off Ramp.

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It was very exciting cause'
every night there was

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somebody cool playing in a dumpy
dive where beer and urine

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mixed like a feeder
creek across the floor.

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* Music *

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Michael: Something really key
happened in the Seattle scene

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in 1984 which was that Black
Flag came up and toured the

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Album 'My War'. Black Flag comes
into town playing this slowed

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down heavy music obviously
influenced by Black Sabbath,

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that turned everyone's head
around because all of a sudden

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you could be really slow and
heavy, that just really sent

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shock waves through
the whole community.

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That really was the
beginning of grunge right there.

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* Music *

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Jack: You know The Melvins need
to be mentioned in all this.

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The Melvins started
in the northwest,

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they were a big influence on
Nirvana, they were a big

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influence on all of us because
The Melvins used to play

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amazing shows, were basically,
they'd mix metal and punk and

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weird art rock just
mashing it together.

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Dale: I think it definitely has
the elements of metal in it.

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We always took our favourite
parts of heavy metal

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and put it in our music.

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Buzz: What we are doing is
what Captain Beefheart

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would be doing if he
played heavy metal.

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Michael: Buzz Osbourne was one
of the first to discover this

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drop D tuning where you take
the E string and tune it to a

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D instead and that gives it a
heavy d-tuned kind of sound,

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that contributed greatly to the
heaviness of grunge and he

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taught it to Kim Thayil
of Soundgarden and a lot

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of other musicians picked
up on it from there.

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* Music *

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>> As early as the mid
'80smusicians in the

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PacificNorthWestwere
creatingasoundthat

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containedmetalelementsbut
withtheirownunique twist.

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And the first company to
recognize this new sound was

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the local independent
label 'Sub Pop Records'.

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So what did Sub Pop see
in this new heavy style?

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Sam: Being at Sub Pop, something
tells me this is irony.

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Sam: What was it that you
and Bruce saw in the bands
that were coming up?

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Presumably I guess
there was no one there

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to sort of harness this.

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Jonathan Poneman: There was
nobody there to harness it

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per say, we didn't really
approach things that way,

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it was more just trying to
document what was going on.

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00:14:14,443 --> 00:14:16,810
Michael: When I hear the word
grunge I just think of,

232
00:14:16,876 --> 00:14:19,143
you know the genius of the
Sub Pop hype machine,

233
00:14:19,210 --> 00:14:23,776
they turned this scene into an
obscure like tertiary market

234
00:14:23,843 --> 00:14:25,910
of the United States
with you know,

235
00:14:25,976 --> 00:14:29,210
a handful of bands playing
to twelve of their friends

236
00:14:29,276 --> 00:14:31,743
and turned it into this
cultural phenomenon

237
00:14:31,810 --> 00:14:34,210
that kind of resonates
to this day

238
00:14:34,276 --> 00:14:37,310
and it really started with
that one word "grunge".

239
00:14:37,410 --> 00:14:40,476
Sam: Do you think they saw Sub
Pop as being part of metal or

240
00:14:40,543 --> 00:14:42,943
do you think they positioned it
as being something different?

241
00:14:43,010 --> 00:14:44,410
Jeff: They positioned
themselves as far away

242
00:14:44,476 --> 00:14:49,110
from metal as you can get. Loud
guitars but not metal guitars.

243
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:50,643
Kurt: If it so happened
that it served their needs

244
00:14:50,810 --> 00:14:53,343
to slam some hair metal bands,

245
00:14:53,410 --> 00:14:56,143
why not because definitely
that's what we weren't doing.

246
00:14:56,210 --> 00:14:58,243
Jack: I think there was a niche
basically the mainstream

247
00:14:58,310 --> 00:15:00,810
record industry had painted
itself into a corner with

248
00:15:00,876 --> 00:15:03,776
terrible music and there was
a need for music with some

249
00:15:03,843 --> 00:15:06,210
honesty and some integrity
and some emotion and just

250
00:15:06,276 --> 00:15:10,210
kind of a little bit, a little
trace of originality to it.

251
00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:12,343
Music made by people
with you know

252
00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:14,976
real personalities
and real characters.

253
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:30,310
* Music *

254
00:15:30,376 --> 00:15:32,310
>> I'm starting to get a clear
understanding of the sound

255
00:15:32,376 --> 00:15:35,343
of grunge and it's connection
to the story of metal

256
00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:39,210
but still no one seems to
agree on which grunge bands

257
00:15:39,276 --> 00:15:41,843
can be classified as metal
especially the genre's

258
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:45,510
two biggest bands,
Nirvana and Pearl Jam.

259
00:15:45,576 --> 00:15:48,176
So what's their association
with heavy metal music?

260
00:15:48,243 --> 00:15:51,843
Jonathan: When I first met
Kurt Cobain he was definitely

261
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:55,010
well versed and
immersed in metal.

262
00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:58,110
Jeff: Do I call Nirvana
a grunge band, nope,

263
00:15:58,176 --> 00:16:01,210
a pop band, nope, metal
band, nope, all the above.

264
00:16:01,276 --> 00:16:03,276
Kurt: Kurt as a songwriter went
through different phases

265
00:16:03,343 --> 00:16:05,276
and I think in the beginning
he was going through a period

266
00:16:05,376 --> 00:16:08,410
where he was writing stuff that
had a pretty heavy feel to it,

267
00:16:08,476 --> 00:16:11,110
he could absorb influences
from all around,

268
00:16:11,176 --> 00:16:13,743
everything he saw,
heard, experienced,

269
00:16:13,810 --> 00:16:17,376
he would regurgitate in
his own unique way.

270
00:16:17,443 --> 00:16:18,576
There wasn't much technique;

271
00:16:18,643 --> 00:16:20,410
there was a lot of
just raw emotion.

272
00:16:20,476 --> 00:16:30,010
* Music *

273
00:16:30,110 --> 00:16:33,010
Sam: What about their
sound, their look,

274
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:36,243
their performance, their
lyrics are not metal?

275
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:38,510
Deena Weinstein: Nirvana's
not metal in many ways

276
00:16:38,576 --> 00:16:42,476
or at least clashes with
what so much of metal was.

277
00:16:42,543 --> 00:16:47,576
For example Cobain had this pain
in his voice that metal doesn't

278
00:16:47,643 --> 00:16:53,143
have and it goes along with
their themes of, I'm hurting.

279
00:16:53,210 --> 00:17:01,176
* Music *

280
00:17:01,243 --> 00:17:03,210
Michael: This idea that you
could be manly and sensitive

281
00:17:03,276 --> 00:17:06,176
and introspective and even
tortured was a fairly new

282
00:17:06,243 --> 00:17:08,310
thing in the nineties because
in hard rock and metal

283
00:17:08,376 --> 00:17:10,976
you're suppose to be you
know king of the world and

284
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:14,576
ruler of all known
planets. (laughs)

285
00:17:14,643 --> 00:17:18,376
Eddie Vedder is solidly in
that introspective angst

286
00:17:18,443 --> 00:17:21,610
ridden front man mold that a lot
of the grunge front men were in.

287
00:17:21,710 --> 00:17:38,443
* Music *

288
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:40,176
Sam: What was your
sense with Pearl Jam,

289
00:17:40,243 --> 00:17:41,443
what makes them metal, what
doesn't make them metal?

290
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:42,810
Brendan O'Brien:
You know honestly

291
00:17:42,876 --> 00:17:45,110
I never thought of them
as remotely metal.

292
00:17:45,176 --> 00:17:47,110
Eddie reminded me more of
Paul Rodgers than any

293
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:49,743
metal singer or even Ian
Gillan from Deep Purple.

294
00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:51,643
I never thought of them as
a metal band, you know,

295
00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:55,576
I just felt again, classic rock
is a great word for that.

296
00:17:55,710 --> 00:18:06,110
* Music *

297
00:18:06,176 --> 00:18:07,310
Spencer Proffer: The
Eddie Vedder songwriting

298
00:18:07,376 --> 00:18:09,176
within Pearl Jam is
really good songwriting,

299
00:18:09,243 --> 00:18:13,310
it's just dressed up with
tough playing so I don't

300
00:18:13,376 --> 00:18:18,276
see that as metal, I don't think
metal is generally synonymous

301
00:18:18,343 --> 00:18:22,343
with good songwriting. It's
synonymous with a lot of

302
00:18:22,410 --> 00:18:26,576
playing and a lot of noise and
a lot of, you know rebellious,

303
00:18:26,643 --> 00:18:30,110
you know screw the man
attitude and I think

304
00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:31,510
grunge is a little
more intelligent.

305
00:18:31,576 --> 00:18:40,110
* Music *

306
00:18:40,176 --> 00:18:41,543
>> I'm discovering that there
is some strong opposition

307
00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:44,476
to including grunge in
the story of metal,

308
00:18:44,543 --> 00:18:47,176
some people even feel that
grunge is the furthest thing

309
00:18:47,243 --> 00:18:50,610
from metal so I'm beginning to
wonder if I was wrong to put

310
00:18:50,676 --> 00:18:53,410
grunge in the heavy
metal family tree.

311
00:18:53,476 --> 00:18:55,743
Do any of the Seattle grunge
bands see themselves

312
00:18:55,810 --> 00:18:57,643
as part of the history
of metal music?

313
00:18:57,710 --> 00:19:01,543
* Music *

314
00:19:01,610 --> 00:19:04,576
* Music *

315
00:19:04,643 --> 00:19:06,543
>> Given that not all
grunge bands identified as

316
00:19:06,610 --> 00:19:08,643
heavy metal back
in the nineties.

317
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:11,576
My exploration into grunge's
connection to metal is proving

318
00:19:11,643 --> 00:19:15,310
to be far more challenging
than I initially realized.

319
00:19:15,376 --> 00:19:17,476
But if there's one
Seattle band that surely

320
00:19:17,543 --> 00:19:20,576
belongs in this story,
it's Soundgarden.

321
00:19:20,643 --> 00:19:24,210
A band that to my ears has
an undeniable metallic sound.

322
00:19:24,276 --> 00:19:43,443
* Music *

323
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:46,210
Sam: Where were your influences
coming from in those early days

324
00:19:46,276 --> 00:19:48,576
in terms of bands
that you admired

325
00:19:48,643 --> 00:19:51,343
or sounds that you
were attracted to?

326
00:19:51,410 --> 00:19:54,243
Kim Thayil: I almost have
to compartmentalize

327
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:58,376
these different styles, with
it Soundgarden's often been

328
00:19:58,443 --> 00:20:01,676
appraised or evaluated, there
was certainly heavy music

329
00:20:01,743 --> 00:20:04,376
that I grown up with, stuff that
might be traditionally called

330
00:20:04,443 --> 00:20:08,076
metal that ultimately was not as
satisfying as some of the music

331
00:20:08,143 --> 00:20:11,343
that came about in the late
seventies that we called punk.

332
00:20:11,410 --> 00:20:14,110
Same time I still liked my
Hendrix, still like listening to

333
00:20:14,176 --> 00:20:18,343
Cream and Aerosmith, Kiss and
Nugent. Those bands still

334
00:20:18,410 --> 00:20:21,376
have some sentimental
nostalgic weight with me.

335
00:20:21,443 --> 00:20:23,143
Sam: What were you
hearing in their music,

336
00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:25,076
did you see them
as a metal band?

337
00:20:25,143 --> 00:20:29,543
Susan Silver: You know, I
guess the classic that has been

338
00:20:29,610 --> 00:20:33,510
written about them throughout
the time, Sabbath and Zeppelin

339
00:20:33,576 --> 00:20:37,710
and the meld of, it was
hypnotizing, it was so heavy,

340
00:20:37,776 --> 00:20:42,210
so melodic, plodenly
melodic and complex.

341
00:20:42,276 --> 00:20:44,476
Melissa Auf Der Maur: Definitely
Soundgarden is the most metal

342
00:20:44,543 --> 00:20:47,576
inspired of all of them because
there was a little element of

343
00:20:47,643 --> 00:20:50,543
grandiosity, people who were
daring to sort of talk about

344
00:20:50,610 --> 00:20:53,210
big mythological
things within a cool,

345
00:20:53,276 --> 00:20:56,210
we're hanging out at the
coffee shop. (laughs)

346
00:20:56,276 --> 00:20:58,076
Jeff Gilbert: You put on
Black Sabbath and you listen

347
00:20:58,143 --> 00:21:01,610
to Soundgarden's early riffs
and they're remarkably similar.

348
00:21:01,676 --> 00:21:04,643
Kurt Danielson: Chris' vocal
range is really immense

349
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:07,443
and so I always noticed a
definite infinity between

350
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:09,910
his vocals and Robert
Plant's for example.

351
00:21:09,976 --> 00:21:12,343
Kim Thayil: People have always
drawn these comparisons to us

352
00:21:12,410 --> 00:21:15,010
and Zeppelin and Sabbath.
Sometimes I can hear it

353
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:17,210
generally I don't but
believe it or not

354
00:21:17,276 --> 00:21:19,110
although I was pretty well
acquainted with Zeppelin

355
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:21,910
and Sabbath I wasn't really
oriented towards those bands.

356
00:21:22,110 --> 00:21:36,576
* Music *

357
00:21:36,643 --> 00:21:38,676
>> Even though Soundgarden
was influenced by classic

358
00:21:38,743 --> 00:21:42,610
metal bands, they clearly didn't
self identify as a metal band

359
00:21:42,676 --> 00:21:46,176
during the early years of their
career but once Soundgarden

360
00:21:46,243 --> 00:21:49,110
signed with a major label
and started working with

361
00:21:49,176 --> 00:21:52,110
established metal producer
Terry Date, on their album

362
00:21:52,176 --> 00:21:54,710
'Louder than Love' their
sound started to shift.

363
00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:57,276
Terry Date: That was a
lot of fun, that was,

364
00:21:57,343 --> 00:22:00,110
we did it in Seattle, it
was a major label record

365
00:22:00,143 --> 00:22:02,676
but there was no
interference from anybody,

366
00:22:02,743 --> 00:22:04,610
we were able to do
whatever we wanted to do

367
00:22:04,676 --> 00:22:07,376
until the record was recorded.
We didn't have to follow any

368
00:22:07,443 --> 00:22:09,543
rules, we just did what
we felt was the best

369
00:22:09,610 --> 00:22:12,943
and really I was following the
bands lead all the way through.

370
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:15,743
Hiro: Terry's background was way
more metal so like the guitars

371
00:22:15,810 --> 00:22:20,810
were more shimmery and a little
higher end and heavier sounding.

372
00:22:20,876 --> 00:22:24,210
I mean it had that kind of
guitar sound that goes with
metal.

373
00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:36,310
* Music *

374
00:22:36,376 --> 00:22:38,476
Kim: The sound of the
record is sonically bigger

375
00:22:38,543 --> 00:22:41,643
and wider than any previous
record we'd done before.

376
00:22:41,710 --> 00:22:44,643
I think on that record we really
tried to make things tight.

377
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:46,643
There's some fans that
thought perhaps "Loud Love"

378
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:48,943
was a little bit too clean,
some of our peers that kind of

379
00:22:49,010 --> 00:22:51,343
came up to us playing punk
rock venues and clubs,

380
00:22:51,410 --> 00:22:54,243
might have thought
it was a bit slick.

381
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:58,276
Sam: Were you happy with the
direction of the sound of
the band on that record?

382
00:22:58,343 --> 00:23:00,443
Hiro: Well this is kind of when
I started like, you know,

383
00:23:00,510 --> 00:23:03,110
we were becoming more,
definitely more metal.

384
00:23:03,143 --> 00:23:05,676
To me it was, we were a punk
band, being on a major label

385
00:23:05,743 --> 00:23:08,010
they want to be able to market
you so how are they going to

386
00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:11,676
market you, they can market
you like Metallica and Megadeth.

387
00:23:11,743 --> 00:23:14,343
They had a marketing
system for that kind of stuff.

388
00:23:14,410 --> 00:23:16,276
Punk rock they
didn't really have.

389
00:23:16,343 --> 00:23:39,010
* Music *

390
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:41,110
>> I'm realizing that
although grunge bands like

391
00:23:41,176 --> 00:23:44,243
Soundgarden were fans of metal
music, they were definitely

392
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:47,476
coming from a more
punk inspired ethos.

393
00:23:47,543 --> 00:23:50,210
Sam: But the one grunge
band that I swear must have

394
00:23:50,276 --> 00:23:53,610
identified as being metal is
Alice In Chains because in the

395
00:23:53,676 --> 00:23:56,243
early nineties they played
the Clash Of The Titans tour

396
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:59,143
with Megadeth and
Anthrax and Slayer.

397
00:23:59,876 --> 00:24:13,843
* Music *

398
00:24:13,910 --> 00:24:15,776
Dave Mustaine: We needed
to have somebody who was

399
00:24:15,843 --> 00:24:19,876
connected but a little bit
detached, removed but integrated

400
00:24:19,943 --> 00:24:22,610
and I feel that Alice In Chains
was the right band to do this

401
00:24:22,676 --> 00:24:25,376
because they have their
own musicality and melody

402
00:24:25,443 --> 00:24:27,010
which people can relate to.

403
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:29,410
They're kind of like the
Grateful Dead of speed metal.

404
00:24:29,476 --> 00:24:30,943
David Ellefson: Plus we found
out Alice In Chains used to be

405
00:24:31,010 --> 00:24:33,976
a glam band so we needed to
make fun of them on this tour,

406
00:24:34,110 --> 00:24:35,543
put them in their place.

407
00:24:35,610 --> 00:24:37,776
Sam: In the eighties the popular
sound in rock and metal music

408
00:24:37,843 --> 00:24:39,610
was what was coming out
of L.A. and the whole

409
00:24:39,676 --> 00:24:42,310
glam metal thing, I mean,
were you influenced by that?

410
00:24:42,376 --> 00:24:44,176
Sean Kinney: I think the
main influence out of that

411
00:24:44,276 --> 00:24:46,110
was Guns N' Roses. Yah.

412
00:24:46,176 --> 00:24:49,110
Because they were more real,
there was a little danger.

413
00:24:49,176 --> 00:24:52,143
Sam: Were you guys copying
a bit of the look of the
Guns N' Roses vibe?

414
00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:55,343
Sean: I tucked my pants in
my cowboy boots for a minute.

415
00:24:55,410 --> 00:24:57,110
Oh yah oh yah,
There's a photo like that.

416
00:24:57,143 --> 00:25:00,610
At first Alice In Chains
were more of a L.A. brand

417
00:25:00,676 --> 00:25:04,110
of glam metal but very
quickly they evolved

418
00:25:04,110 --> 00:25:05,543
into something else.

419
00:25:05,610 --> 00:25:07,143
I think they were the band in
Seattle that was known best

420
00:25:07,210 --> 00:25:10,310
for combining heavy metal
with some grunge stuff.

421
00:25:10,376 --> 00:25:12,476
Jeff: Alice In Chains is
the missing link

422
00:25:12,543 --> 00:25:15,443
between traditional
metal and grunge.

423
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:18,343
What they did is they
just made a hybrid out

424
00:25:18,410 --> 00:25:21,476
of what Soundgarden and
Pearl Jam and the Melvins

425
00:25:21,543 --> 00:25:24,810
and Nirvana were doing and
found that middle ground.

426
00:25:24,943 --> 00:25:26,976
Jerry Cantrell: Metal is a
big part of our upbringing like

427
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:30,543
probably most rock guys, you
know what I mean, there's some

428
00:25:30,610 --> 00:25:33,610
great metal bands that we grew
up on and that's certainly,

429
00:25:33,676 --> 00:25:36,443
certainly a part of our sound
but I don't think we ever
really...

430
00:25:36,510 --> 00:25:38,110
Sean Kinney: We're
way more aluminum.

431
00:25:38,176 --> 00:25:39,610
Jerry Cantrell: Yah. (laughs)

432
00:25:39,676 --> 00:25:40,576
Sean Kinney: You know.

433
00:25:40,643 --> 00:25:42,110
We were on Clash Of The Titans,

434
00:25:42,176 --> 00:25:44,010
we were opening up for Slayer,
Megadeth and Anthrax.

435
00:25:44,110 --> 00:25:47,110
We're kind of one of those bands
that has a luxury of being able

436
00:25:47,143 --> 00:25:50,110
to play and we would
play with anybody.

437
00:25:50,110 --> 00:25:51,476
Jerry Cantrell:
Play with anybody.

438
00:25:51,543 --> 00:25:52,943
We didn't care who we played
with, there was some bands

439
00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:54,843
that wouldn't have done that
but we didn't give a (beep).

440
00:25:54,943 --> 00:25:57,610
Sean: We just wanted to play,
you know, so we did that and we,

441
00:25:57,676 --> 00:26:00,510
you know, that's a rough crowd,
can't say people didn't

442
00:26:00,576 --> 00:26:02,143
throw (beep) at us, they
did but we would

443
00:26:02,210 --> 00:26:04,110
just throw it right
back, you know.

444
00:26:04,176 --> 00:26:06,210
Scott Ian: Those dudes got
pelted with more (beep)

445
00:26:06,276 --> 00:26:07,943
than I ever seen a
band get pelted.

446
00:26:08,010 --> 00:26:10,010
People were just throwing
their beers, buying more beer

447
00:26:10,110 --> 00:26:11,510
and then throwing it
at Alice In Chains

448
00:26:11,576 --> 00:26:13,510
and never once did
they back down.

449
00:26:13,576 --> 00:26:15,576
They (beep) took that (beep)
with middle fingers flying high

450
00:26:15,643 --> 00:26:18,943
and you know when "Man In
The Box" started to break,

451
00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:22,443
what a month or two after that
tour ended, everyone who

452
00:26:22,510 --> 00:26:24,343
threw beer at them went out
and bought that record.

453
00:26:24,476 --> 00:26:40,943
* Music *

454
00:26:41,010 --> 00:26:43,476
Sam: What was the first
indication to you that this

455
00:26:43,543 --> 00:26:47,010
thing called grunge had
become something mainstream?

456
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:48,543
Mark Arm: The first thing
that happened was like

457
00:26:48,610 --> 00:26:51,143
Alice In Chains record went gold
and then "Nevermind" came out

458
00:26:51,210 --> 00:26:54,343
and then that was quickly
followed by Pearl Jam's "Ten".

459
00:26:54,443 --> 00:26:57,610
You know once that happened it
was obvious it was mainstream

460
00:26:57,676 --> 00:27:00,776
and then it went to this next
level thing where people from

461
00:27:00,843 --> 00:27:03,176
local bands are on the
cover of Time Magazine,

462
00:27:03,310 --> 00:27:06,443
Marc Jacobs doing grunge fashion
shows, you know like basically

463
00:27:06,510 --> 00:27:08,676
taking flannel shirts and
putting holes in them and

464
00:27:08,743 --> 00:27:10,443
selling them for a
couple hundred dollars.

465
00:27:10,510 --> 00:27:12,176
Jerry Cantrell: When (beep)
like that started happening

466
00:27:12,243 --> 00:27:14,110
it was just like whoa, really?

467
00:27:14,110 --> 00:27:15,943
You're in the middle of it,
you're aware of it but I mean

468
00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:19,376
when it started to get a little
silly and it wasn't from us

469
00:27:19,443 --> 00:27:22,543
being any different than we
were, any of the bands,

470
00:27:22,610 --> 00:27:26,143
it's just like, you're the fresh
new thing, you're the shiny new

471
00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:28,976
thing, you know, you only
get to be that once.

472
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:47,543
* Music *

473
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:51,610
an MTV News special report.

474
00:27:51,676 --> 00:27:54,310
The body of Nirvana leader Kurt
Cobain was found in a house

475
00:27:54,376 --> 00:27:56,576
in Seattle on Friday morning
dead of an apparently

476
00:27:56,643 --> 00:27:59,110
self-inflicted shotgun
blast to the head.

477
00:27:59,176 --> 00:28:01,110
>> As grunge bands were
going multi-platinum

478
00:28:01,176 --> 00:28:04,176
and grunge culture was
exploding in the mainstream

479
00:28:04,243 --> 00:28:07,810
the movement was dealt a
heavy blow in 1994 when

480
00:28:07,876 --> 00:28:10,443
Nirvana lead singer Kurt
Cobain committed suicide

481
00:28:10,510 --> 00:28:13,843
in his Seattle home. Experts
have long attributed the

482
00:28:13,910 --> 00:28:16,110
death of grunge to
this tragic moment.

483
00:28:16,176 --> 00:28:18,810
But what exactly was the impact
of Kurt's suicide on the

484
00:28:18,876 --> 00:28:22,276
Seattle scene and the
evolution of grunge music?

485
00:28:23,643 --> 00:28:25,476
Sam: Is it fair to say
Kurt's death killed grunge?

486
00:28:25,543 --> 00:28:27,110
Jack: What was it
that it killed?

487
00:28:27,176 --> 00:28:29,576
I mean when Kurt killed himself
I mean grunge in the sense of

488
00:28:29,643 --> 00:28:33,343
some spontaneous self-generating
regional cultural phenomenon

489
00:28:33,410 --> 00:28:35,843
had already run its course at
that point and all you had left

490
00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:38,976
was a handful of commercial
business entities,

491
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:41,710
bands basically who were part
of the major label machine

492
00:28:41,776 --> 00:28:45,110
continuing on with their
business plan into the '90s,

493
00:28:45,143 --> 00:28:47,810
the original well spring had
dried up at that point long
since.

494
00:28:47,876 --> 00:28:51,743
Melissa: By the time
Lollapalooza 1995 and all these

495
00:28:51,810 --> 00:28:55,743
labels are grunge, it was
pretty much done we had already

496
00:28:55,810 --> 00:29:00,110
recognized that it had been
sold as a Coca-cola commodity.

497
00:29:00,143 --> 00:29:03,110
Hiro: The whole idea of why
bands were bands was no longer

498
00:29:03,143 --> 00:29:07,110
to play music and have fun it
was to get on a major label,

499
00:29:07,176 --> 00:29:10,243
people were coming to Seattle
to have someone discover them

500
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:13,943
so definitely the whole
vibe of Seattle changed.

501
00:29:18,476 --> 00:29:20,310
Announcer: This week Soundgarden
calls it a career;

502
00:29:20,376 --> 00:29:22,476
we'll take a look back
at all 12 years of it.

503
00:29:22,543 --> 00:29:26,243
Sam: What were the factors
that led to you guys
deciding to call it quits?

504
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:30,443
Kim: One is just being
around for 12 or 13 years.

505
00:29:30,510 --> 00:29:34,010
To have 4 people be on
the same page for that

506
00:29:34,110 --> 00:29:36,843
period of time is a
rare occurrence.

507
00:29:36,910 --> 00:29:39,110
Sam: How did the
fans and media react?

508
00:29:39,143 --> 00:29:40,643
Kim: I think people
were pretty bummed.

509
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:43,376
I remember a number of articles
turned up around the country,

510
00:29:43,443 --> 00:29:46,310
some people thought it was a
loss and just another nail in

511
00:29:46,376 --> 00:29:49,943
the coffin of Grunge if
that's the story line
they're following,

512
00:29:50,010 --> 00:29:52,543
the label grunge that's
important to record companies

513
00:29:52,610 --> 00:29:55,110
for marketing, we were never
even really quite sure that

514
00:29:55,176 --> 00:29:59,276
grunge even came into
being, let alone became extinct.

515
00:29:59,410 --> 00:30:18,676
* Music *

516
00:30:18,743 --> 00:30:22,110
>> By the mid '90s grunge
appeared to be dead;

517
00:30:22,176 --> 00:30:25,510
Kurt was gone, Soundgarden had
broken up, Alice in Chains

518
00:30:25,576 --> 00:30:30,110
had stopped making records and
Pearl Jam were on hiatus.

519
00:30:30,176 --> 00:30:32,276
But this episode is about
grunge's place in the

520
00:30:32,343 --> 00:30:36,110
evolution of metal music and
in the late '90s the sound

521
00:30:36,176 --> 00:30:39,376
of grunge began to evolve into
something completely different.

522
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:56,076
* Music *

523
00:30:56,143 --> 00:30:58,376
Sam: We began to see
bands like Candlebox,

524
00:30:58,443 --> 00:31:01,110
Creed in the mid to late '90s...

525
00:31:01,143 --> 00:31:02,976
Jack: I hated these bands.

526
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:04,943
Sam: But they bare the hallmarks
of grunge at some point.

527
00:31:05,010 --> 00:31:07,276
Jack: They do but they were
so explicitly derivative

528
00:31:07,343 --> 00:31:09,143
it drove me nuts every
time I heard them.

529
00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:11,443
Kurt: These imposter bands
started popping out of the

530
00:31:11,510 --> 00:31:16,510
woodwork, umm filling in the
void left by the original bands

531
00:31:16,576 --> 00:31:21,743
which seemed vital and exciting,
at the end of the day it turns

532
00:31:21,810 --> 00:31:26,376
out to be just as bland
as the Grateful Dead.

533
00:31:26,443 --> 00:31:28,476
Sam: Did you like
any of that music?

534
00:31:28,543 --> 00:31:29,810
Buzz: It meant nothing to me

535
00:31:29,876 --> 00:31:31,410
Dale: Yeah, it just seemed
like imitation

536
00:31:31,476 --> 00:31:34,576
Buzz: Absolutely pedestrian, to
me, it's like next you know

537
00:31:34,643 --> 00:31:36,276
I might as well be listening
to a Madonna record.

538
00:31:36,343 --> 00:31:39,110
Mark: Like what the (beep) is
this?

539
00:31:39,143 --> 00:31:44,243
And if those bands have grunge
influences and somehow

540
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:48,810
I'm responsible for
grunge, (beep) kill me.

541
00:31:48,876 --> 00:31:49,943
Sam: Why do you feel that way?

542
00:31:52,343 --> 00:31:55,310
Mark: Have you heard the
bands? (laughs)

543
00:31:55,376 --> 00:32:03,976
* Music *

544
00:32:04,110 --> 00:32:06,010
Michael: All those 2nd
generation grunge bands

545
00:32:06,110 --> 00:32:08,143
grew up on the first
generation bands

546
00:32:08,210 --> 00:32:11,810
and you just naturally echo
the stuff you grew up on.

547
00:32:11,876 --> 00:32:13,476
Maybe you put a new
little spin on it

548
00:32:13,543 --> 00:32:15,710
which those bands I
don't think really did.

549
00:32:15,776 --> 00:32:18,110
That's the problem, it's
just incredibly derivative

550
00:32:18,143 --> 00:32:21,443
and made much more
radio friendly

551
00:32:21,510 --> 00:32:23,143
Joe Weiderhorn: I think
the grunge light movement

552
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:27,243
came not from bands so much
as the record labels.

553
00:32:27,310 --> 00:32:30,176
I think the record labels said
'Hmm, let's have more of that

554
00:32:30,243 --> 00:32:33,543
let's find bands who we can
encourage to write songs that

555
00:32:33,610 --> 00:32:36,410
have a little bit of angst
and a whole lot of melody

556
00:32:36,476 --> 00:32:38,576
and create something
that's not challenging,

557
00:32:38,643 --> 00:32:40,910
that's not confrontational
and that the mainstream

558
00:32:40,976 --> 00:32:43,343
can just whole
heartedly embrace.

559
00:32:43,410 --> 00:33:11,510
* Music *

560
00:33:11,576 --> 00:33:14,510
Sam: Do you see yourselves
as an evolution out of

561
00:33:14,576 --> 00:33:17,010
what grunge bands
may have started

562
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:18,476
I mean what's your
sense on that?

563
00:33:18,543 --> 00:33:20,210
Mark Tremonti: I don't consider
us part of the grunge scene,

564
00:33:20,276 --> 00:33:23,210
I think we were just kind of
a band that came out in the

565
00:33:23,276 --> 00:33:25,943
middle of a music scene
that really didn't

566
00:33:26,010 --> 00:33:27,643
have an identity at the time.

567
00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:30,010
Scott Stapp: I think we
started something new.

568
00:33:30,110 --> 00:33:32,443
I think grunge ended and
then we came out and

569
00:33:32,510 --> 00:33:36,243
it was more of timeless classic
rock music kind of thing.

570
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:39,143
We believe that if that those
same people that may have hated

571
00:33:39,210 --> 00:33:42,276
us dug deeper into our records
they'd end up buying it.

572
00:33:42,343 --> 00:33:53,410
* Music *

573
00:33:53,476 --> 00:33:55,876
Sam: It seems as though
Layne Staley, Eddie Vedder

574
00:33:55,943 --> 00:34:00,110
kind of set in motion a new
style of male rock vocal

575
00:34:00,176 --> 00:34:01,510
I mean would you
agree with that?

576
00:34:01,576 --> 00:34:02,810
Jack: I call it yarling.

577
00:34:02,910 --> 00:34:04,343
Sam: The yarling?

578
00:34:04,410 --> 00:34:07,643
Jack: We call it yarling
(imitates sound) that's
yarling.

579
00:34:07,710 --> 00:34:11,143
Mark: Before I heard the term
yarl my friends and I called it

580
00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:13,943
underbite rock, it sounds
like the singer is singing

581
00:34:14,010 --> 00:34:16,276
(imitates sound)
with an underbite.

582
00:34:16,343 --> 00:34:18,243
Sam: You're not gonna
help me with the yarl?

583
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:20,343
Kim: I don't know how
to do it it's the yarl.

584
00:34:20,443 --> 00:34:21,976
C'mon.

585
00:34:22,110 --> 00:34:24,910
Oh all these eyes
looking at me for the yarl.

586
00:34:24,976 --> 00:34:29,643
Buzz: (yarls) Try that.

587
00:34:29,710 --> 00:34:33,576
Dale: Eee Ooh
Buzz: (fake yarl)

588
00:34:33,643 --> 00:34:35,976
Michael: Eddie Vedder
concocted that way of singing

589
00:34:36,110 --> 00:34:38,410
because it was his original
way of expressing himself.

590
00:34:38,543 --> 00:34:41,843
It came from a really real place
and then it kind of got codified

591
00:34:41,910 --> 00:34:44,943
and made into a formula and it
didn't even mean anything it was

592
00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:47,810
just like you have to sing like
that cause' the signifies alt

593
00:34:47,910 --> 00:34:51,976
rock soulfulness, and it kind
of just got repeated mindlessly.

594
00:34:52,110 --> 00:35:02,576
* Music *

595
00:35:02,643 --> 00:35:04,310
Sam: How did you feel
about those Eddie Vedder

596
00:35:04,376 --> 00:35:06,310
comparisons that
were being made?

597
00:35:06,376 --> 00:35:08,576
Scott: That was a comparison
that the press was making.

598
00:35:08,643 --> 00:35:10,376
I thought it was only
natural you know

599
00:35:10,443 --> 00:35:13,110
I have a baritone voice.
I've heard Cornell,

600
00:35:13,176 --> 00:35:19,276
I've heard Vedder, umm I've
heard Hootie and the Blowfish

601
00:35:19,343 --> 00:35:21,510
Mark: My roots were metal so
the darker leaning stuff

602
00:35:21,576 --> 00:35:24,476
like the earlier Soundgarden
stuff I was really into

603
00:35:24,543 --> 00:35:26,843
early you know Alice
in Chains record.

604
00:35:26,943 --> 00:35:29,210
It seemed like all the bands in
the grunge movement weren't very

605
00:35:29,276 --> 00:35:32,176
alike, it's hard to pinpoint
what the grunge scene was

606
00:35:32,243 --> 00:35:35,310
cause' Soundgarden and Mudhoney
and Screaming Trees are

607
00:35:35,376 --> 00:35:38,376
very different bands and to
lump us in there as well...

608
00:35:38,443 --> 00:35:42,010
Scott: It wasn't something that
bothered us from a standpoint

609
00:35:42,110 --> 00:35:46,343
of as we're getting thrown
away or just passed off as a

610
00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:49,810
sound alike because we knew our
sound was totally different.

611
00:35:49,976 --> 00:36:05,610
* Music *

612
00:36:08,176 --> 00:36:11,543
* Music *

613
00:36:11,610 --> 00:36:14,410
>> At the dawn of the 2000's,
the original grunge bands

614
00:36:14,476 --> 00:36:17,376
were still absent from the
rock landscape and the only

615
00:36:17,443 --> 00:36:20,776
trace of their sonic legacy
could be found in bands creating

616
00:36:20,843 --> 00:36:24,843
a so-called post-grunge sound,
but then a band emerged that

617
00:36:24,910 --> 00:36:28,210
turned post-grunge into a
stadium rock phenomenon.

618
00:36:28,276 --> 00:36:32,443
(fans cheering)

619
00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:35,143
Sam: Some people say they
are a post-grunge band

620
00:36:35,210 --> 00:36:36,976
what do you think of that idea?

621
00:36:37,110 --> 00:36:38,943
Fan: They need to
open up a live a little.

622
00:36:39,010 --> 00:36:40,676
Friend: Grunge is a long time
ago.

623
00:36:40,843 --> 00:36:41,943
Sam: Grunge is gone?

624
00:36:42,010 --> 00:36:44,010
Fan: Grunge is gone.
Grunge is dead.

625
00:36:44,110 --> 00:36:45,110
Sam: What do you
think about that?

626
00:36:45,176 --> 00:36:46,610
Are they part of
the grunge history?

627
00:36:46,676 --> 00:36:49,110
Fan: I don't think so they came
out in a mixed up kind of era

628
00:36:49,143 --> 00:36:51,443
but I think they've
established themselves

629
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:53,410
as one of the best
bands around now.

630
00:36:53,476 --> 00:37:06,110
* Music *

631
00:37:06,143 --> 00:37:10,676
Sam: What was that climate like
after the fall of grunge music,

632
00:37:10,743 --> 00:37:14,843
what do you think grunge
did to the rock landscape?

633
00:37:14,910 --> 00:37:16,710
Chad Kroeger: There is a
lack of identity there in

634
00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:19,743
the late '90s, everyone was
kind of looking around like

635
00:37:19,810 --> 00:37:23,010
'Now what are we supposed to
do?' Nobody knew what was going

636
00:37:23,110 --> 00:37:26,310
on or what was cool,
or what to write

637
00:37:26,376 --> 00:37:28,743
it's like there wasn't
even a scene almost.

638
00:37:28,810 --> 00:37:30,576
Sam: Some of the interviews
you've done in the past

639
00:37:30,643 --> 00:37:33,676
previous interviewers have
asked you about being
labeled post-grunge.

640
00:37:33,810 --> 00:37:35,110
Chad. Right.

641
00:37:35,176 --> 00:37:37,876
Sam: You didn't take very
kindly to that association,

642
00:37:38,110 --> 00:37:40,843
I'm just curious as to why?

643
00:37:40,910 --> 00:37:43,276
Chad: My thing always is
you know back in the day

644
00:37:43,343 --> 00:37:45,743
anything that came out that
was rock and roll in the late

645
00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:49,443
'90s was post grunge, I mean
anything that come out anytime

646
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:51,910
after grunge is going to be
called post-grunge right.

647
00:37:51,976 --> 00:37:55,310
Ron Burman: I mean theres
definitely elements of other

648
00:37:55,376 --> 00:37:57,643
bands there and it reminded me
of a lot of the bands from

649
00:37:57,776 --> 00:38:01,343
Seattle personally but different
not exactly like any of those.

650
00:38:01,410 --> 00:38:03,976
Nickleback felt like unlike
a lot of other bands

651
00:38:04,110 --> 00:38:07,276
it didn't feel forced,
Nickleback actually sounded

652
00:38:07,343 --> 00:38:10,776
like and felt like when you
saw them that's who they were.

653
00:38:10,843 --> 00:38:13,810
They were influenced by all
these things and they were

654
00:38:13,876 --> 00:38:16,443
100 percent that and they
weren't putting it on.

655
00:38:16,510 --> 00:38:19,343
Michael: Maybe Nickleback's
attraction rests in the fact

656
00:38:19,410 --> 00:38:23,010
that their audience is
probably unaware of that

657
00:38:23,110 --> 00:38:25,110
first generation
of grunge bands.

658
00:38:25,110 --> 00:38:27,210
They hear some of the trappings
of that music in Nickleback and

659
00:38:27,276 --> 00:38:30,810
they respond to what's
great about it but umm

660
00:38:30,876 --> 00:38:33,910
maybe they just don't know
like you know the good stuff.

661
00:38:33,976 --> 00:38:35,310
Sam: Would there have been
a Nickleback without

662
00:38:35,376 --> 00:38:37,510
an Alice in Chains
or a Pearl Jam...

663
00:38:37,576 --> 00:38:39,476
Mark: There probably
wouldn't have been

664
00:38:39,543 --> 00:38:42,476
a Nickleback that sounds the
way they sound without those

665
00:38:42,543 --> 00:38:45,976
other bands having success
because they were only emulating

666
00:38:46,110 --> 00:38:48,176
what they think
would make them money.

667
00:38:48,243 --> 00:38:50,176
Sam: Do you think it would
be uncomfortable for the

668
00:38:50,243 --> 00:38:52,976
grunge bands to see
Nickleback as derivative

669
00:38:53,110 --> 00:38:54,543
of what they were doing?

670
00:38:54,610 --> 00:38:57,176
Jeff: No it's uh, Jerry Cantrell
from Alice in Chains is a

671
00:38:57,243 --> 00:39:01,443
big Nickleback fan and has gone
on stage with them, he gets it.

672
00:39:01,510 --> 00:39:04,876
Chad Kroeger: Mr. Jerry
Cantrell of Alice in Chains!

673
00:39:04,943 --> 00:39:06,843
You have to come and see
Nickleback to get Nickleback

674
00:39:06,943 --> 00:39:09,143
beyond what you hear on the
radio, and when you come and see

675
00:39:09,210 --> 00:39:12,110
the band live the one thing
Jerry from Alice in Chains would

676
00:39:12,143 --> 00:39:14,943
always say if he ever took
flack you know something like

677
00:39:15,010 --> 00:39:17,143
'why are you hanging out with
those mainstream dudes?',

678
00:39:17,210 --> 00:39:18,976
'well, you ever seen
them play live?',

679
00:39:19,110 --> 00:39:22,110
'well no why would I go see...'
'well maybe you should'.

680
00:39:22,176 --> 00:39:24,110
If you are not a fan of our
music they probably wouldn't

681
00:39:24,110 --> 00:39:27,110
know we've got songs like
"Burn it to the Ground" and

682
00:39:27,143 --> 00:39:29,843
"Because of You" and "Side of
a Bullet" that we actually have

683
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:33,110
Dimebag from Pantera
playing guitar solo on,

684
00:39:33,143 --> 00:39:36,376
there is that whole other
darker heavy side.

685
00:39:36,443 --> 00:39:39,110
Their heavy songs are really
heavy, just slaying guitar

686
00:39:39,143 --> 00:39:42,443
you know, and you can hear their
influences, you can hear the

687
00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:45,276
Pantera and Metallica they
have those influences in there.

688
00:39:45,343 --> 00:39:47,476
Jeff Gilbert: There's room
for them in this landscape,

689
00:39:47,543 --> 00:39:50,310
they've gotten very good at what
they do and that's some big

690
00:39:50,376 --> 00:39:53,376
rock guitar sound and that's
what I think was missing for a

691
00:39:53,443 --> 00:39:55,910
long time that's the void
they're filling right now.

692
00:39:55,976 --> 00:39:57,743
Ron: When you leave a Nickleback
show I think you feel like, wow

693
00:39:57,810 --> 00:40:02,343
I went to this killer concert
and I got to rock out and hear

694
00:40:02,410 --> 00:40:05,876
a lot of songs that I know and
love and it's a great time.

695
00:40:05,943 --> 00:40:07,443
Its like a party every night
so everyone that's there

696
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:08,976
feels kind of special.

697
00:40:09,110 --> 00:40:21,543
* Music *

698
00:40:21,610 --> 00:40:23,443
>> In the absence of the
original grunge bands in the

699
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:27,410
early 2000's, Nickleback filled
a void in the musical landscape

700
00:40:27,476 --> 00:40:31,543
by creating a sound that was
palatable for young rock fans,

701
00:40:31,610 --> 00:40:35,376
but today much to the surprise
of fans and the media

702
00:40:35,443 --> 00:40:37,976
the old guard of grunge
are staging a comeback.

703
00:40:38,110 --> 00:40:58,410
* Music *

704
00:40:58,476 --> 00:40:59,743
Sam: What do you make of the
fact that Soundgarden

705
00:40:59,810 --> 00:41:03,110
and Alice In Chains are
reformed and back on tour

706
00:41:03,110 --> 00:41:06,143
is there something that these
guys are filling again?

707
00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:08,410
Melissa: There are some die-hard
fans that are dying to

708
00:41:08,476 --> 00:41:12,010
see it again but also people
who discovered it afterwards

709
00:41:12,110 --> 00:41:15,243
who hands down see that
that music is better

710
00:41:15,310 --> 00:41:17,343
than most music made since.

711
00:41:17,410 --> 00:41:19,976
Michael: Those bands were such a
jolt when you first heard them,

712
00:41:20,110 --> 00:41:22,276
it was just a new wave
making hard rock music,

713
00:41:22,343 --> 00:41:24,276
it was just something that
really appealed to your heart

714
00:41:24,343 --> 00:41:27,410
and soul in a way that a lot of
hard rock had not before that.

715
00:41:27,476 --> 00:41:29,876
It made a deep and lasting
impression on people,

716
00:41:29,943 --> 00:41:31,776
people connected with those
bands pretty strongly.

717
00:41:31,843 --> 00:41:33,410
Jerry Cantrell: We just kept
following what felt right

718
00:41:33,476 --> 00:41:37,110
you know, it just grew from
a real organic place.

719
00:41:37,110 --> 00:41:40,110
The sad reality you know
is we lost a lot of

720
00:41:40,143 --> 00:41:41,610
really cool guys along the
way.

721
00:41:41,676 --> 00:41:43,376
There was definitely a lot of
price that was paid there and

722
00:41:43,443 --> 00:41:46,143
it's one that you wish didn't
have to be paid but it was a

723
00:41:46,210 --> 00:41:49,110
really magical thing to be a
part of, and whether or when

724
00:41:49,110 --> 00:41:51,476
people started paying attention
to it and then stopped paying

725
00:41:51,543 --> 00:41:54,410
attention to it it never
stopped being important to us.

726
00:41:54,476 --> 00:41:57,210
Sam: What's the legacy
of grunge do you think?

727
00:41:57,276 --> 00:42:00,110
Jerry: I still like the music,
I still like the people,

728
00:42:00,143 --> 00:42:04,610
I still love our town and then
today to see the majority of

729
00:42:04,676 --> 00:42:06,876
those guys making music, I
mean the Pearl Jam guys are

730
00:42:06,943 --> 00:42:08,943
back together, Soundgarden just
did some shows,

731
00:42:09,010 --> 00:42:11,143
we're doing our thing, Mudhoney
has played some gigs.

732
00:42:11,243 --> 00:42:14,610
Sam: Are you still infusing the
spirit of those metal bands we

733
00:42:14,676 --> 00:42:16,376
started talking about at the
beginning of the interview?

734
00:42:16,443 --> 00:42:19,376
Mark: You know you try to
move forward after 22 years

735
00:42:19,443 --> 00:42:21,843
but we still can't help but
to bring in like the Stooges

736
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:24,143
and Blue Cheer and MC5
and Black Sabbath.

737
00:42:24,276 --> 00:42:43,176
* Music *

738
00:42:43,243 --> 00:42:47,110
Sam: Why is it a good
time for Soundgarden
to be back out there now?

739
00:42:47,143 --> 00:42:48,343
Kim: It's because
we're available and

740
00:42:48,410 --> 00:42:49,943
wanna play with each other.

741
00:42:50,010 --> 00:42:52,710
I guess anytime that
we decided that we wanted

742
00:42:52,776 --> 00:42:54,476
to do that would
be a good time.

743
00:42:54,543 --> 00:42:56,243
It's just great to know that
there are fans out there that

744
00:42:56,310 --> 00:42:59,143
think it's a good time
for them, that's perfect.

745
00:42:59,210 --> 00:43:01,510
Sam: Is it a
nostalgic thing for fans?

746
00:43:01,576 --> 00:43:05,276
Kim: Maybe, but not for us.
A lot of the motivation is

747
00:43:05,343 --> 00:43:07,743
curiosity to see where
we're all at creatively

748
00:43:07,810 --> 00:43:10,176
and creating new material.
I don't think we have any

749
00:43:10,243 --> 00:43:15,676
ambitions to play the county
fair um casino circuit,

750
00:43:15,743 --> 00:43:17,743
although we've heard
it's really lucrative.

751
00:43:17,810 --> 00:43:47,743
*