CHILD 1: That's not fair! Come on!
You said yesterday.
That's not my fault!
Come on, luv. Chop, chop.
Chop, chop!
Anyone seen my overalls?
There's some clean ones in the back, luv.
Oh. Thanks.
Andy! Josh!
It's 10 past!
Where's Andy?
I don't know.
Who's moved my rucksack?
Me.
But it was in the way.
Right.
Jade, I want you in the car.
Come on. Get your shoes on.
- Yes, mummy. - And you, luv.
Come on.
Let's go.
I'm tired!
And I'm hungry!
Andy!
We are going now!
CHILD 2: Mummy!
CHILD 3: Got your rucksack? CHILD 2: OK.
I'll go into town. - You got your bus fare?
Yeah. See you later.
CHILD 2: No! That's not fair!
CHILD 3: Oh, I can get my--
CHILD 2: So you got two of them! Yes, you did!
You-- CHILD 1: Come on, Chris!
See you, luv. CHILD 1: You're always late.
CHILD 2: Well, so are you. - Go up!
CHILD 1: No, I'm not. JANET: Got your recorder, Jade?
CHILD 2: Yes, you are.
Mum, it's not recorder day today.
- Isn't it? - That's tomorrow.
Oh.
SONG: Become good friends.
May, get that.
Is your mum in?
She's inside.
Mum!
Oh, bloody hell.
Not you again.
That's right.
Me again.
And what's that?
A warrant to search the house and the garden.
Excuse me!
Mum!
What's going on?
- What-- I don't know. - Well, what do you--
I don't know.
She's come in.
She said she's got a search warrant.
STEVEN: Wait, and what are they searching for?
Out of my house you great lummox!
What, then, are the signs of abuse, which social workers
should look for in children?
These may be physical--
unexplained cuts and bruises.
But they may also be behavioral.
Is the child withdrawn, aggressive,
or unusually introverted?
Is there an unspoken atmosphere of fear in the house?
It's me.
That interfering bloody arsehole bitch is here again.
She got a search warrant this time.
So you better have your story straight.
And anything you need to do, you better get done.
Mm-hmm.
Hello?
Speaking.
Oh, right.
So you want me to come in now?
No. No.
Fine.
Um, half an hour?
OK, then.
Bye.
That were the police.
They need an Appropriate Adult.
A what?
You know.
It's that thing I volunteered for.
You lot don't listen to a word I say, do you?
Janet Leach?
Yeah.
This way, please.
Detective Superintendent Bennett's waiting for you.
Janet Leach.
The Appropriate Adult, sir.
Sorry for calling you in at this time of day.
Probation and Social Services had no one available.
Do you mind if I ask you who it is?
It's 52-year-old man.
With learning difficulties?
Well, all I can say is that we've been advised
to have an Appropriate Adult.
Oh, yes.
You have done this before?
Oh, no.
But I've done the training.
Ah.
Carry on. - Howard Ogden.
Solicitor.
This tape-recorded interview is
being conducted at Gloucester Central Police Station.
I'm DC Darren Law, and my colleague here, is--
DC Hazel Savage.
And, can I have your name, please?
Frederick Walter Steven West.
And acting as your legal representative?
Howard Ogden.
And acting as your Appropriate Adult.
Oh, Janet Leach.
You're not here just to observe the interview is
conducted fairly, but also to advise Mr. West
and facilitate communication with him.
I understand.
Super.
The date is Friday the 25th of February, 1994.
The time is 16:57.
Before we set off, I've got to remind you Fred,
that you're still under caution, and that you
don't have to say anything unless you wish to do so.
But anything you do say, may be used in evidence.
Do you understand? - Yeah.
OK.
You were arrested earlier today, by my colleague here,
in relation to the murder of your daughter, Heather.
Could you tell me in your own words what you know about that?
Well, what happened was, Heather wanted to leave home,
see?
And she'd been knocking about with this girl with a red mini.
That's a mini skirt, not a mini car.
And we were pretty sure she was a lesbian, like.
So me and Rose said, hang on a sec.
You better think about this girl.
You know?
Give it a night at least.
So next morning come up, and she looked real rough.
She been crying and--
So Rose says, let her go.
She said, I'll go to the bank and draw out 600 pound.
She can have that and go.
So Rose goes off, and I'm left in the hall
with-- with Heather and her suitcase.
And she's got hands on hips, you know, the big lady, like.
And I say, how about you a flat up the road,
and you can have girlfriends up there.
And she said, if you don't let me fucking go,
I'll give all the kids acid--
that's LSD, like-- and they'll jump off the church roof
and kill theirselves.
And I say well, that ain't very nice, girl.
You'll threaten to do that your own brother and sisters?
And she's got this smile on her face, like a sort of smirk.
Like, try me and I'll do it.
So I just lunged at her like that.
And then I grabbed her by the throat like that,
and then held her there for I don't know how long,
but it was quick.
You know, it was real quick, because it's
surprising how long you can hold someone by the throat
until they--
But I can't even remember to that extent what happened next,
but the next minute she's gone blue.
And I'm looking at her from head to foot, you know,
and what the heck's gone wrong?
So I put her on the floor, and I'm blowing in her mouth.
I'm pumping her chest, and--
But she kept on getting bluer.
And I didn't know what to do.
I mean, I hadn't meant to hurt her.
And Rose is due back any minute.
I'm thinking, jeez, I got to do something.
And I was scared.
So I was going to put her in the Wendy house.
And then I thought I'll put her in the dust bin.
But I couldn't get her in there.
So I get this ice saw, you know, with the two prongs
at the top, and the serrated edges.
You use them for cutting blocks of ice.
And I cut her legs off.
And I mean, that was unbearable.
Yeah.
I can still hear that in my sleep.
And I cut her head off, and--
Well, I closed her eyes first, because--
Well, you're not going to take a saw to your own daughter,
when she's sat there looking at you, are ya?
And then she fit neatly in the bin,
so I push it down to the end of the garden, behind--
behind the Wendy house.
And then I take her suitcase of clothes,
and I stuck it out beyond the vats.
So-- their rubbish.
And then I got Heather from behind the Wendy house,
and buried her.
And I've been meaning to come down
here and get all this sorted out before,
but I never got round to it.
Can I ask if the Appropriate Adult's all right?
I'm quite all right, thank you.
HAZEL: Let's get this clear.
You're saying you killed your daughter.
But not intentionally.
DC LAW: What sort of grave are we looking for?
FRED: Just a hole in the ground, about four foot square.
HAZEL: And what's in this hole?
FRED: Well, Heather.
HAZEL: How many pieces?
FRED: Three pieces.
Two legs, a head, and a body.
DC LAW: That's four pieces.
You happy to come to the house and point out where she is?
Yeah.
Why didn't you tell us all this before, Fred?
I wasn't ready.
Or is it because we're carrying out
a search of your property, and you're
afraid we might find her?
No.
You see, all this is causing stress to Rose,
and I don't want that.
And the thing I'd like to make clear
is that Rose knew nothing about any of this.
The time is 17:08, by my watch,
and the interview has ended whilst arrangements
are made to visit 25 Cromwell Street.
This notice explains what happens to the tapes.
Can I have a word?
Yeah, sure.
Is Rose here?
HAZEL: No.
I've got a feeling she's in the building.
She's not here.
I just wanted to make sure you're OK.
Ah, yeah.
Yeah, I'm fine.
ROSE: Get Off!
She is here.
ROSE: Treat it right.
I thought they were taking her straight to Cheltenham.
This way, Miss.
Oi!
You're unbelievable you lot.
It's fucking unbelievable.
JOSH: Hello?
Oh, hi, luv.
It's me.
Is everything all right?
JOSH: Yeah.
Have you had tea?
JOSH: Sort of.
You might have to put Jay to bed.
Where are you?
JANET: Told you.
I'm at the police station.
I'm helping the police with an investigation.
What investigation?
DS BENNETT: Yeah, the press obviously working on it now.
I can't talk about it.
I'm really sorry, luv.
I got to go.
I'll see you later, all right?
Bye.
DC LAW: What?
Overalls?
FRED: Standard police issue are they?
DC LAW: Nothing but the best.
FRED: Damn stuff .
You all set?
DC LAW: What's that then?
Why--
FRED: Explain this bloke's .
DC LAW: We don't have back scratchers
in the station, Fred.
The car ready?
I know you from somewhere.
I'm sure you don't.
You don't half look familiar.
DC LAW: I'm going to start with Mr. West.
Ain't just Heather I buried in that garden.
There's more.
More?
You wouldn't believe it.
Not that you can let on to the police I told you that, eh?
You'll keep what I say in confidence.
But you're a good Appropriate Adult.
You'll already know that.
HAZEL: Mrs. Leach?
OK?
All ready?
Let's go.
Right arm please, Fred.
Where's Rose?
HAZEL: On her way to Cheltenham police station.
She's also under arrest.
That's a waste of her time and yours.
HAZEL: Come on.
The work I put into this place.
Looking through here, building on there.
Years of back-break to get it looking tickety-boo.
I need to remind you, you're still under caution, Fred.
Do you understand?
Yes, thank you, Hazel.
Can you show us where you buried your daughter, Heather?
Problem is remembering what you did when--
I'd try there.
HAZEL: Is Bernard still around?
DC LAW: No, he's gone home for the night.
HAZEL: Get him back. We'll need a pathologist.
See?
There.
What?
And there.
What am I supposed to be looking at?
HAZEL: OK.
We're going to get a forensic team
to start examining that area.
We'll take you back to the station
now, apply for an extension of custody,
and resume our interview tomorrow.
Is there anything else you wish to say?
Yes.
Will the Appropriate Adult be present?
Can you attend?
Yeah.
If you want me.
That's sorted then.
She's been very helpful so far.
CHILD 2: So you already said that I could go next time.
So I should be able to go.
CHILD 1: Chris.
Stop making all this nonsense up.
CHRIS: Well, do you think I could
actually make up that nonsense?
I'm speaking that fact.
I'm not making it up!
You said--
CHILD 3: Gonna play this? CHILD 2: No.
It's boring. CHILD 1: Not it's not.
CHLD 2: I said, yeah.
MIKE: Shh!
CHILD 1: Come on!
You said yesterday.
That's not my fault.
MIKE: I've been on that job over at Barwood.
Never before.
What a mess.
Might have to rescheme it all.
I told them.
I said, this'll take weeks.
Hey!
Cut it out, you two!
Hey!
Mike?
Hmm?
Were you taking them?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
DC LAW: Gloucester Police Station.
The date is 26th of February, 1994.
The time is 10:38.
I'm DC Law.
My colleague here is--
HAZEL: DC Savage.
DC LAW: Could I have your full name, please?
FRED: Fredrick Walter Steven West.
DC LAW: And your legal representative?
HOWARD: Howard Ogden.
And acting as your Appropriate Adult?
Janet Leach.
DC LAW: I have to remind you that you're
still under caution. Do you understand?
FRED: Yes.
And before you say anything else, me
and him just an argument.
Discussion.
And I'm telling you now, what I just told him.
Heather is not in that garden.
She's alive and well, and possibly
at this moment in Bahrain.
She's been recruited to work for a drugs cartel
as a drug runner.
They treat her like a queen.
She gets in touch now and again to tell me she's all right.
She's using a false name.
I have no idea what that is, and I will not let her tell me.
Now, whether or not you believe in that, is entirely up to you.
But that's why you find nothing in that garden.
And you won't, not even if you dig till kingdom come.
And I don't care how much money and time
you waste, because you wasted mine.
Not just now, but in the past.
Because there were previous allegations.
There was nothing in them.
Rape and buggery of two of your children.
Which was never proven.
You had me remanded in prison, spat at by other prisoners.
My younger kids put into care, where they still are--
poor little lambs--
trying to force me to admit that I assaulted them.
Trying to get to the truth, Fred.
You turned my house upside down.
And we'll do so again.
3,000 pound that cost me last week.
We'll keep on searching till we find Heather.
All because of some stupid remark about her being
under the patio.
That remark was made by your own daughter, Fred.
Annmarie said it was a family joke--
A joke.
There you are.
To social workers, who like me,
have had concerns about your family for a considerable time.
You're the beautifulest woman in Gloucester
when you're angry, Hazel.
I'm just trying to get to the truth this time, Fred.
You're bring personal and vindictive--
I'm being neither, Fred.
-- against me and my Rose, who loves our family.
Who'd do anything for them.
Why are you saying this now, Fred?
Last night you took us to the house
with Mr. Ogden and this lady, and you showed us a grave.
You inconvenienced me.
So you're trying to inconvenience
DC Savage to get back at her?
You're really saying there's nothing in that grave?
Why are you smirking?
Who's smirking?
You said yesterday, you wanted to get all this sorted out.
And then I spent the night in a cell thinking what I want
is Rose back in our home.
I want my children back.
I want my house and garden reinstated.
We are a family.
Well, lets just ask Mrs. Leach, as an independent lady,
what she thinks.
Um.
Well, he's clearly contradicting what he said last night.
Did you hear that, Fred?
And I saw the smirk.
For the benefit of the tape, PC Roberts
has entered the room.
Nothing more hurtful than someone saying you
don't love your kids.
Bet you feel the same way.
Bet you're a mother.
That's completely irrelevant.
Oh, but it's not you see.
Because I think you understand how deep
my feelings are for my family.
Don't ya?
Time for a cuppa I'd say, Hazel.
HAZEL: We can take a refreshment break shortly.
But first, I'd like to discuss the information
that Detective Superintendent Bennett's
just sent from your house.
What information?
They found some bones in the garden.
Well, like I said, I want to get all this sorted out.
Our pathologist is confident they're human.
If I accused you of inconveniencing me,
then I apologize.
You sure you buried Heather all in one place?
You what?
You didn't scatter any of her body around the garden?
No.
Because they found another body part
in another part of the garden.
Well, I can't think how that could have got there.
Are you suggesting it wasn't part of Heather?
It must have been.
HAZEL: It was a thighbone.
They've already found two thigh bones.
Heather didn't three legs, did she?
Do you have any knowledge how this other bone
could have got there, Fred?
Yes.
Shirley.
Shirley, who?
Robinson.
The girl that caused all the trouble.
The girl with the red mini.
Thank you, yes.
See, she lodged with us.
And I had an affair with her, and she got pregnant.
And she wanted to marry me, and she said
she was going to tell Rose.
There was a bit of an argument.
Got out of hand somehow.
And she ended up getting strangled.
And where was Rose at this time?
In the hospital, having her baby.
Which baby?
Babs.
No.
Not Babs.
Um, young Rosemarie.
I'd come back from seeing Rose in the hospital.
And Shirley and I had this row, and I killed her.
HAZEL: How?
Strangled her with a piece of flax.
Buried her in the garden?
Yeah.
And her with a baby inside her, too.
Can't tell you how that's haunted me.
I mean, the bit about the baby yeah?
Killing Shirley, the-- the baby would have died, too.
Think we'll end there.
Does anyone have anything else to say?
DC LAW: Time is 11:06, and the interview is ended.
Excuse me.
We've decided to leave the interviews for today.
Oh, OK.
Fred needs some clean clothes.
I wonder, could you go to the house with Mr. Ogden
and get them?
Um, yeah all right.
And whilst you're at it, could you get some for Mrs. West,
too?
We're still holding her Cheltenham.
OK.
Um, does he really have learning difficulties?
So why do you need an Appropriate Adult?
Detective Superintendent Bennett's
concerned there's no suggestion Mr. West had difficulty
understanding any of this.
REPORTER 1: Can you give us anything at all?
REPORTER 2: Can you give us any information at all?
POLICE OFFICER 1: In you go.
POLICE OFFICER 2: This way.
Right at the top I think.
QL: 1-7-4. 1-7-4.
Quebec Lima. Over.
174: Quebec Lima, go ahead.
Over.
QL: include roof access
to the rear of the property? Over.
174: Looking into it now. Over.
QL: OK, thanks.
HOWARD: Upstairs, I think.
QL: 3-4-2. 3-4-2.
Quebec Lima.
Over.
342: 3-4-2.
Over. QL: Where are you?
Over.
342: first floor.
Over.
QL: Can you meet DC Kavinsky by the back door?
He's got a message for you.
You didn't know she works as a prostitute?
I had to work that out.
Hmm.
Clothes.
No.
There's nothing in here.
MAY: We thought you'd already searched in here.
Oh, we're not police.
Who the fuck are you then?
HOWARD: I'm your dad's solicitor.
Well, who's this?
Janet Leach.
I'm acting as your father's Appropriate Adult.
His what?
I've been asked to help him, and we've been sent
to pick up some clean clothes.
So where is dad?
Because no one's told us anything.
Gloucester Police Station.
I'm afraid he's been arrested on suspicion of murder.
Murder of who?
If there's murder gone on, it will be mum, not dad.
Don't say that about mum!
I'll say the fuck what I like!
Don't listen to him.
Mum's all right.
Dad's the one.
Tell mum I hope she's all right, and we want her home.
Please, will you do that for me?
Mrs. West?
Jesus.
You.
HOWARD: This lady's brought you some of your clothes.
What?
You been to my house?
Rooting round in my things?
JANET: The police asked me--
Fucking cheek!
JANET: We-- We were just quickly in and out.
And we saw Steven and May.
And May said that she hoped you were all right.
By what right?
By what right-- you nosy fucking bitch--
do you go into my house, and speak to my children, and poke
about among my private things?
Rose.
Jesus Christ!
Rose!
Calm down.
Who are you, anyway?
Who are you?
DS BENNETT: She's helping us, Mrs. West.
She got no right touching my clothing!
And you got no right arresting me!
All we want is to get to the truth.
No it ain't.
What you want is for me to say Fred killed our Heather,
and I helped him. - Did you?
No! I did not!
How many fucking times?
You got nothing on me, and you know it.
Take her back to the cells, please.
POLICE OFFICER 3: Come on.
Don't-- touch me.
Oh, what are you so fucking scared of you little mouse?
Little mousy mouse.
Wouldn't say "boo" to a fucking goose.
Bet you're a dirty little lezzie, too.
Mrs. West!
POLICE OFFICER 3: Come on.
Don't do it.
Mousy isn't she?
I said don't touch me, didn't I?
I told you not to touch me!
Get off!
DS BENNETT: Sorry about that.
It's all right.
HOWARD: Look, have a seat.
I'll get you a glass of water.
DS BENNETT: Occupational hazard, I'm afraid, that kind of abuse.
It's not that.
DS BENNETT: What is it then?
Things have happened-- things have been said--
that I hadn't expected.
What things?
Has Fred said anything privately
to you about any of this?
I can't tell you.
I-- I have a duty of confidence.
Of course.
But if he does try to give you information privately,
you could advise him to speak to me.
I know.
I've done the training.
You better get home.
What are you doing? It's Sunday.
JANET: I know.
They need me to go in again.
MIKE: What?
The police.
MIKE: Bloody hell, Janet.
Hello?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm just going in now.
Coping?
Course I'm coping.
Who says I'm not?
Pull out?
No!
So you're saying, if I carry on, you won't support me?
OK.
Fine.
Excuse me.
Can I ask?
Have you said something to her?
What?
The organizer of the Appropriate Adult register?
Yes.
Yes, I have.
Did you tell her that I wasn't up to this?
No, I did not.
Because she rang me, and she asked me
if I wanted to pull out.
Well, I explained it was a very
difficult and distressing case.
She's perfectly entitled to give you that opportunity.
Well, I won't.
Are you quite sure you still feel able to carry on?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Very well.
HAZEL: Janet!
There's been a development.
What?
Fred's indicated that there's another body in the garden.
Who?
Girl called Allison Chambers.
I suspect he's told us because he thinks
we'll find the body anyway.
I want him to point out the grave.
Can come to the house?
Oh, yeah.
Of course.
So here, Fred.
This here's where we found bones that you say
may belong to Shirley Robinson.
Where did you bury Allison Chambers?
Well, now.
Now you're asking?
Yes.
I am asking, Fred.
Let me see.
No.
Don't think I can get it.
Hold on. Hold on.
I'm picking something up.
Yeah.
That's her.
HAZEL: Allison?
Yeah.
She's trying to tell me something.
What's she trying to tell you, Fred?
Where she is, but I don't think I can understand
what she's trying to--
Yeah. Hold on.
Um-- Yeah.
Try there.
Now that's your lot.
You'll find no more.
What about Rena?
Rena?
Your first wife.
And what about Charmaine?
Charmaine?
HAZEL: Why are you looking at me like that?
Rena had a daughter, Charmaine, who became your step-daughter.
Where are they?
Well, you lose track--
You lose track of people.
Don't you?
Well, you said you lost track of Heather.
But you killed her and buried her in this garden.
And you did the same to Shirley Robinson and Allison Chambers.
You won't find Rena and Charmaine here.
And that I swear.
And even if you don't believe me,
I know the Appropriate Adult does, because she understands
me in a way that you lot don't.
Isn't that so?
How can I understand you?
You've killed people.
Because you're a woman who can see beneath the surface.
And a woman who knows remorse when she sees it.
Unlike you lot.
ANCHORWOMAN ON NEWS: Police have found two more bodies
in the garden in Gloucester, where
the remains of the missing schoolgirl Heather West
were discovered on Saturday.
Her father is charged with her murder.
Two new bodies are thought to be of adults,
but police say identification will be difficult.
They're checking registers of missing people.
Our West of England reporter, Steve Scott, has the details.
Can I use that table?
I can't concentrate in there.
MIKE: Oh, yeah.
REPORTER ON TV: -- biggest ever criminal investigation.
Is this the thing you're involved with?
REPORTER ON TV: -- forensic teams have unearthed
three sets of human remains.
They have spend several nights-- - It is.
Isn't it?
REPORTER ON TV: -- underneath the patio,
which covered the garden.
It obviously is, Josh.
She can't talk about it.
JOSH: Do you think there are more bodies?
MIKE: I bet there are more, though.
Most people do.
REPORTER ON TV: Police have also confirmed the man's wife has
been released without charge.
Indications are that the police operation
at 25 Cromwell Street, could go on for many more days yet.
HAZEL: Jackie will show you out.
I know this is distressing, but that information
could be very useful.
We'll be in touch if we have any news at all.
Ready for another session?
Yeah.
Who was that?
Mr. and Mrs. Goff.
Gloucester couple whose daughter lodged
with the Wests 20 years ago.
We found some belongings in the house, we think may be hers.
You think she could be another victim?
Yep.
God.
Where's this going to end?
There are three bodies, and that's it.
Now, I said I'm willing to sort all that out.
And I know that means I'll never be going home again.
But I want my garden reinstated, and I want Rose and the kids
back home.
HAZEL: She can't go back home.
Why not?
You've released Rose.
She's in a Safe House with May and Steven.
The younger kids are still in care.
We're still searching the property.
And the fact that we've released Rose
doesn't mean that we believe she's innocent.
This is all wrong.
See?
Did Rose know about your relationship
with Shirley Robinson.
No, she didn't.
HAZEL: Oh, Shirley was living under the same roof.
She must have known she was pregnant.
She didn't know I was the father.
I suggest that she did.
I suggest she was jealous.
I suggest she helped you to kill her.
DC LAW: We found Shirley's body, Fred.
I know.
It was me who showed you where it was.
So can you explain why the baby wasn't inside her?
What?
The baby has not been left intact in the abdomen.
I-- I need to take a break.
DC LAW: The time is 11:45.
The interview has ended.
Back in a minute, Fred.
DC LAW: Can you sign this off, Mrs. Leach?
HOWARD: I need to speak to you.
HAZEL: Yes, Mr. Ogden, Of course.
HOWARD: I need to see that report.
HAZEL: I understand that.
But if you want to see the report,
you'll have to take it up with Detective Superintendant--
FRED: That would have been Rose.
What would?
The baby.
Are you saying that Rose removed
the baby from Shirley's womb?
Oh, no.
No.
Rose is a mother.
She'd never do a thing like that.
I can't do this.
Don't go, please.
Give me one good reason why I should
stay and listen to this crap.
I know you've suffered.
What?
You don't know anything about me.
I can see it in your eyes.
I know you've not always been properly
loved and respected by men.
I've had enough of this.
You need to tell the police everything.
If you have killed and buried other women, they need to know.
The girls' families need to know.
I'm not admitting nothing else to Mr. Ogden or the police.
Then I am going, and I'll not be coming back.
You can't leave!
You're my Appropriate Adult!
I don't give a shit.
No, please! Please!
Please, Janet! Please stay!
You're the only one I can trust.