1 00:00:04,021 --> 00:00:07,221 They're from the police. They need an appropriate adult. 2 00:00:07,221 --> 00:00:10,141 You're here to assist Mr West. Rose... 3 00:00:10,141 --> 00:00:13,181 knew nothing about any of this. I can't do this. 4 00:00:13,181 --> 00:00:16,581 There's something I want to tell you. She was involved. 5 00:00:16,581 --> 00:00:19,861 Has Fred said anything to you privately about this? 6 00:00:19,861 --> 00:00:22,901 I can't tell you. I owe a duty of confidence. 7 00:00:22,901 --> 00:00:26,941 That's the plan we made and that plan is working, Anna. 8 00:00:26,941 --> 00:00:28,741 Why did you call me Anna? 9 00:00:28,741 --> 00:00:32,341 You can't just drop me without any explanation. Yes, I can. 10 00:00:32,341 --> 00:00:34,661 No, you can't, not now. 11 00:00:45,661 --> 00:00:47,541 Out you get. 12 00:00:47,541 --> 00:00:49,941 All right. I'm coming out as quick as I can. 13 00:00:49,941 --> 00:00:54,141 It was a long time ago and I don't know what you think I am, anyway. 14 00:00:54,141 --> 00:00:57,221 What do you think I am? Eh? 15 00:00:59,941 --> 00:01:03,701 I've got a fucking hairdresser's appointment this afternoon. 16 00:01:03,701 --> 00:01:07,261 Don't pull me. Don't you fucking pull on my arm, girl, 17 00:01:07,261 --> 00:01:11,661 or I'll pull on yours. I'll fucking break it for you if you want. Bitch! 18 00:01:16,461 --> 00:01:18,541 Give us your full name. 19 00:01:22,381 --> 00:01:24,661 I just need to take your details. 20 00:01:25,541 --> 00:01:27,061 Yeah. 21 00:01:36,021 --> 00:01:39,261 'I need an exact description of what she was wearing 22 00:01:39,261 --> 00:01:41,581 'the last time you saw her.' 23 00:01:44,661 --> 00:01:46,501 How old was she then? 24 00:01:46,501 --> 00:01:49,261 And the exact date, please. Yeah. 25 00:01:50,141 --> 00:01:52,941 When was the last time you saw her? 26 00:02:01,701 --> 00:02:05,061 How could you have killed Charmaine if you were in prison, Mr West? 27 00:02:06,221 --> 00:02:08,221 No comment. 28 00:02:08,221 --> 00:02:11,901 And I'm DC Carl Kempinsky. Could I have your name, please? 29 00:02:14,981 --> 00:02:18,261 That's a photograph of the remains of your daughter, Heather. 30 00:02:18,261 --> 00:02:20,421 How do you feel when you look at it? 31 00:02:21,821 --> 00:02:23,261 No comment. 32 00:02:24,141 --> 00:02:28,381 Could you please confirm your name for the tape? 33 00:02:28,981 --> 00:02:32,981 'Rose helped you kill Heather, didn't she?' 34 00:02:36,021 --> 00:02:38,341 No comment. 35 00:02:49,341 --> 00:02:51,421 It was thought that 36 00:02:51,421 --> 00:02:54,141 a different team, different tactics 37 00:02:54,141 --> 00:02:56,741 might speed things up a bit. 38 00:02:56,741 --> 00:02:59,581 So you want me to resume as his appropriate adult? 39 00:02:59,581 --> 00:03:01,701 I'd understand if you said no. 40 00:03:06,181 --> 00:03:08,021 No, I'll do it. 41 00:03:08,021 --> 00:03:10,661 Not because I want to do him any favours. 42 00:03:10,661 --> 00:03:12,661 Sir... 43 00:03:12,661 --> 00:03:15,661 Mrs Leach is back on board, sir. 44 00:03:16,341 --> 00:03:19,021 Good. I appreciate it. 45 00:03:20,061 --> 00:03:23,461 He's um...he's coming up from the cells now. 46 00:03:23,461 --> 00:03:26,821 We're going to Kempley. We can't find Rena's remains. 47 00:03:33,701 --> 00:03:37,421 Mrs Leach has agreed to resume as your appropriate adult. 48 00:03:39,101 --> 00:03:42,661 Well, now, the day already looks a lot rosier. 49 00:03:46,221 --> 00:03:48,981 Go ahead. Over. 50 00:03:51,541 --> 00:03:53,621 We're on the way to Kempley, over. 51 00:03:53,621 --> 00:03:55,661 (CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK) 52 00:03:58,981 --> 00:04:03,621 (PHOTOGRAPHERS SHOUT AT WEST AND BANG ON CAR DOORS) 53 00:04:22,101 --> 00:04:24,701 You see all the work we've done here, Fred. 54 00:04:24,701 --> 00:04:27,581 And we still haven't found any remains. 55 00:04:35,061 --> 00:04:38,141 Rena's somewhere here. I'd put my shirt on it. 56 00:04:38,141 --> 00:04:40,861 If Rena's here then why isn't Charmaine? 57 00:04:40,861 --> 00:04:43,621 You killed them at the same time. 58 00:04:43,621 --> 00:04:47,501 Charmaine was a child. It's very hard to talk about that. 59 00:04:47,501 --> 00:04:50,421 We need you to do that, Fred. Tell us exactly what happened. 60 00:04:53,061 --> 00:04:55,421 Are you going to answer the officer, Fred? 61 00:04:56,701 --> 00:05:00,381 You'd split up with Rena, hadn't you? 62 00:05:00,701 --> 00:05:04,101 You were living with Rose and Charmaine was with you. 63 00:05:05,301 --> 00:05:08,181 Well, I arranged to meet Rena in the pub, 64 00:05:08,181 --> 00:05:12,621 I got a drink in, got her absolutely paralytic and then... 65 00:05:14,781 --> 00:05:16,821 drove out here and strangled her. 66 00:05:16,821 --> 00:05:20,061 Where was Charmaine? Asleep in the car. 67 00:05:20,061 --> 00:05:22,781 Rena had given her a lager or something 68 00:05:22,781 --> 00:05:27,661 and I thought, what am I going to do? She's got no mum nor dad? Poor lamb. 69 00:05:27,661 --> 00:05:30,181 Who's going to tell her that? So I strangled her 70 00:05:30,181 --> 00:05:33,421 and drove her back to Midland Road and we sat outside the house a while, 71 00:05:33,421 --> 00:05:37,781 Rose was in bed, then I hid Charmaine by the back wall of the house 72 00:05:37,781 --> 00:05:39,821 thinking I'd bury her next day. 73 00:05:39,821 --> 00:05:44,141 So, we need to start searching the Midland Road house as well? 74 00:05:46,781 --> 00:05:48,261 Correct. 75 00:05:55,021 --> 00:05:56,861 What is it, Fred? 76 00:05:58,661 --> 00:06:00,741 Why are you looking over there? 77 00:06:00,741 --> 00:06:04,501 There's something pulling me there. What is it? 78 00:06:04,501 --> 00:06:07,701 Anna. Is this Anna McFall, Fred? 79 00:06:07,941 --> 00:06:12,061 Anna, who used to look after your children when you were with Rena? 80 00:06:15,661 --> 00:06:18,221 I can feel her now. She's calling to me. 81 00:06:25,381 --> 00:06:28,981 I've got to remind you, Fred, that you're still under caution. 82 00:06:28,981 --> 00:06:32,501 You don't have to say anything unless you wish to do so 83 00:06:32,501 --> 00:06:35,341 but what you do say may be given in evidence. 84 00:06:41,301 --> 00:06:44,021 I can feel her presence now. 85 00:06:46,981 --> 00:06:49,501 It's like she's standing beside me. 86 00:06:49,501 --> 00:06:51,861 Did you murder Anna, Fred? 87 00:06:51,861 --> 00:06:54,501 Did you bury her here? 88 00:06:55,461 --> 00:06:57,941 You all right, Fred? 89 00:07:09,461 --> 00:07:11,741 I didn't kill Anna. 90 00:07:12,541 --> 00:07:15,701 You believe me, Janet? 91 00:07:15,701 --> 00:07:18,661 Anna had my baby. 92 00:07:19,181 --> 00:07:21,621 How could I kill the greatest love of my life 93 00:07:21,621 --> 00:07:23,421 with my baby inside her? 94 00:07:24,741 --> 00:07:26,941 (WEST SOBS) 95 00:07:56,821 --> 00:08:00,021 Janet. Janet. Janet. What's your involvement in all of this? 96 00:08:00,021 --> 00:08:02,781 (ALL TALK AT ONCE) 97 00:08:04,021 --> 00:08:06,061 I've got nothing to say. 98 00:08:06,061 --> 00:08:08,861 What is the work that you're doing with the police, Janet? 99 00:08:10,861 --> 00:08:13,581 Can't you see the woman's just trying to get home? 100 00:08:13,581 --> 00:08:15,621 Thank you. 101 00:08:20,381 --> 00:08:22,421 Just a quick quote... 102 00:08:22,421 --> 00:08:25,181 Hi, Mum. Hi, Mum. 103 00:08:26,421 --> 00:08:28,221 Hi. How's things? 104 00:08:28,221 --> 00:08:31,621 Yeah, great fun living in the middle of a siege! 105 00:08:31,621 --> 00:08:33,861 I'm really sorry about that. 106 00:08:34,861 --> 00:08:37,621 So why are you doing it again? (PHONE RINGS) 107 00:08:37,621 --> 00:08:40,421 Tell them to stick it. 108 00:08:41,141 --> 00:08:42,661 Hello? 109 00:08:42,661 --> 00:08:44,981 Oh, hi, Hazel. 110 00:08:48,181 --> 00:08:50,101 What, now? 111 00:08:51,981 --> 00:08:54,141 Oh, right. 112 00:08:54,141 --> 00:08:56,181 Don't, Josh. 113 00:09:02,021 --> 00:09:04,341 Mrs Leach, I'll come down with you. 114 00:09:04,341 --> 00:09:06,221 No, it's all right. 115 00:09:07,621 --> 00:09:10,261 She's seems nice. She's a nice lady. 116 00:09:15,861 --> 00:09:18,381 (DOGS WHIMPER) 117 00:09:19,021 --> 00:09:20,821 Oh, Janet. 118 00:09:20,821 --> 00:09:23,221 I just wanted to say 119 00:09:23,221 --> 00:09:25,781 I hope I didn't upset you today. 120 00:09:25,781 --> 00:09:28,501 I thought I'd frightened you off. 121 00:09:28,501 --> 00:09:30,701 What are you doing? 122 00:09:30,701 --> 00:09:34,501 I can't get through this without you. Get off of me. 123 00:09:36,101 --> 00:09:37,981 That is completely out of order. 124 00:09:37,981 --> 00:09:40,261 Sorry, Janet. 125 00:09:42,061 --> 00:09:44,621 It won't happen again, I swear it. 126 00:09:45,261 --> 00:09:47,381 It's just that this... 127 00:09:47,381 --> 00:09:50,261 this business about Anna's really upset me and... 128 00:09:50,261 --> 00:09:54,261 You see, Anna was more important to me than anyone in the world 129 00:09:55,861 --> 00:09:58,341 and I truly did feel her in that field. 130 00:10:00,861 --> 00:10:04,221 I can feel her with me now because you're here. 131 00:10:07,901 --> 00:10:10,341 She's guiding me through you. 132 00:10:10,341 --> 00:10:13,061 I don't know what you're talking about. You would. 133 00:10:13,061 --> 00:10:16,061 If you saw Anna, you'd understand. 134 00:10:20,101 --> 00:10:23,581 I'm sorry about that. He was insistent he wanted to see you. 135 00:10:23,581 --> 00:10:28,061 He just needed reassuring that I wasn't going to quit. Good. 136 00:10:29,461 --> 00:10:31,781 Can I ask? Yeah. 137 00:10:31,781 --> 00:10:34,181 Anna McFall, who exactly was she? 138 00:10:34,181 --> 00:10:37,421 Basically, she was a 17-year-old girl. 139 00:10:37,421 --> 00:10:41,021 When Fred was with Rena, she used to look after their children. 140 00:10:41,021 --> 00:10:44,501 She developed an infatuation with Fred 141 00:10:44,501 --> 00:10:47,381 which led to an affair, Anna got pregnant, 142 00:10:47,381 --> 00:10:51,181 wanted Fred to leave Rena, shortly after that she went missing. 143 00:10:52,461 --> 00:10:55,261 This was August, 1967. 144 00:10:57,021 --> 00:10:59,541 We released a picture of her earlier. 145 00:11:11,661 --> 00:11:13,701 Night. 146 00:11:58,221 --> 00:12:01,141 We're now applying for a warrant to search the area 147 00:12:01,141 --> 00:12:03,581 where you indicated Anna McFall might be. 148 00:12:03,581 --> 00:12:07,341 I'd say that would be wise. Did you kill her, Fred? 149 00:12:07,341 --> 00:12:10,501 I'd sooner stab myself in the heart with a dagger. 150 00:12:10,501 --> 00:12:14,101 If you didn't, who did? If it'd be anyone, it'd be Rena. 151 00:12:14,101 --> 00:12:17,541 Why Rena? When Rena found out about Anna, she couldn't bear it, 152 00:12:17,541 --> 00:12:22,141 but Anna refused to give me up. You enjoy two women fighting over you? 153 00:12:22,141 --> 00:12:26,541 Well, I've learned to live with women competing over my affections. 154 00:12:26,541 --> 00:12:29,861 You enjoyed being part of a love triangle? 155 00:12:29,861 --> 00:12:33,301 Was that how it sometimes was with Rose? 156 00:12:33,301 --> 00:12:36,181 If you want me to say my loving wife ever hurt anyone... 157 00:12:36,181 --> 00:12:38,221 You said your previous wife did. 158 00:12:38,221 --> 00:12:41,261 This is a trap. Did you see that, Janet? 159 00:12:41,261 --> 00:12:44,501 The police are just asking questions. Answer them honestly. 160 00:12:44,501 --> 00:12:48,821 And I am. Rose is not a murderer. I just don't believe you, Fred. 161 00:12:48,821 --> 00:12:51,701 I think Rose killed Charmaine. That's up to you. 162 00:12:51,701 --> 00:12:55,701 We're asking Rose the same questions and if there's any discrepancy... 163 00:12:55,701 --> 00:12:59,061 They'll be no discrepancy, she'll tell you nothing. How do you know? 164 00:13:00,981 --> 00:13:03,341 Did she tell you that's what she would do? 165 00:13:03,341 --> 00:13:07,101 All I know is you'll never wear Rose down. 166 00:13:07,101 --> 00:13:10,261 She's not afraid of you lot. You lot should be afraid of her. 167 00:13:10,261 --> 00:13:14,381 Why? On account of the fact some of your lot were using her services. 168 00:13:14,381 --> 00:13:17,061 You with me, Janet? 169 00:13:17,061 --> 00:13:19,941 There was coppers paying Rose for sex. 170 00:13:19,941 --> 00:13:23,261 Where's your evidence? Rose has got the evidence. 171 00:13:26,021 --> 00:13:30,021 If there were such evidence, Fred, we wouldn't 172 00:13:30,021 --> 00:13:32,901 allow that to inhibit our investigation. 173 00:13:32,901 --> 00:13:35,901 You're grinning again, acting cocky. Do you agree, Janet? 174 00:13:35,901 --> 00:13:38,261 Yes, I do. I think it's most regrettable. 175 00:13:38,261 --> 00:13:40,421 I think you should take this very seriously. 176 00:13:40,421 --> 00:13:42,701 Don't you start being harsh with me, Janet. 177 00:13:42,701 --> 00:13:44,861 I'm just telling you the truth. 178 00:13:44,861 --> 00:13:48,461 You see, I don't believe you about Charmaine. Nor do I believe 179 00:13:48,461 --> 00:13:51,661 you could conduct sexual relationships with young women, 180 00:13:51,661 --> 00:13:55,181 kill, dismember and bury them in the house 181 00:13:55,181 --> 00:13:59,221 you share with Rose without her knowing. 182 00:13:59,221 --> 00:14:02,141 What you believe don't matter, it's what you can prove matters. 183 00:14:02,141 --> 00:14:05,461 Take Lynda Gough. Her parents believe Lynda became very friendly 184 00:14:05,461 --> 00:14:08,941 with Rose when she lodged with you. Rose looked after her. That's Rose. 185 00:14:08,941 --> 00:14:13,341 When Lynda disappeared and her parents called at your house to ask 186 00:14:13,341 --> 00:14:17,301 if you knew where she was, why was Rose wearing her cardigan? 187 00:14:19,901 --> 00:14:23,901 Well, Lynda must've left it behind. We told them that. 188 00:14:23,901 --> 00:14:26,301 I think that's nonsense. 189 00:14:26,301 --> 00:14:29,541 I think that you and Rose manipulated 190 00:14:29,541 --> 00:14:32,661 and coerced young women into 191 00:14:32,661 --> 00:14:35,501 sexual activities... I've admitted with broad-minded people. 192 00:14:35,501 --> 00:14:38,861 Activities that became sado-masochistic in nature. 193 00:14:38,861 --> 00:14:42,621 We know your taste in pornography, what Rose did with her clients. 194 00:14:42,621 --> 00:14:45,901 Now you're putting two and two together to make five. I suggest 195 00:14:45,901 --> 00:14:48,861 that you and Rose took those acts 196 00:14:48,861 --> 00:14:52,141 much further than those girls could possibly have imagined. 197 00:14:52,141 --> 00:14:55,581 There was a beam in the cellar, ropes, rolls of tape, 198 00:14:55,581 --> 00:14:58,781 a surgical mask, other instruments of torture. 199 00:14:58,781 --> 00:15:02,021 I suggest that you suspended them from that beam... 200 00:15:02,021 --> 00:15:05,421 Janet, stop it. You bound and gagged them. Janet, you're my friend. 201 00:15:05,421 --> 00:15:08,661 You watched Rose... Just be honest. 202 00:15:08,661 --> 00:15:12,261 ..do unspeakable agonies until they eventually died 203 00:15:12,261 --> 00:15:16,421 and you just stood back and watched for your own sexual gratification 204 00:15:16,421 --> 00:15:20,261 and when Rose had finished with them, you dismembered their bodies 205 00:15:20,261 --> 00:15:22,661 and buried them with her full knowledge. 206 00:15:22,661 --> 00:15:25,381 I suggest that the two of you did 207 00:15:25,381 --> 00:15:28,461 similar things to your daughter, Heather, and to Charmaine. 208 00:15:43,901 --> 00:15:46,101 Rose is innocent. 209 00:15:46,101 --> 00:15:48,141 I ain't got nothing more to say. 210 00:15:54,621 --> 00:15:57,341 Interview was terminated at 15:54. 211 00:16:02,141 --> 00:16:04,141 (KNOCK ON DOOR) 212 00:16:04,901 --> 00:16:07,061 A word, please, DC Savage. 213 00:16:22,021 --> 00:16:25,141 Rose has been charged with the murder of Lynda Gough. 214 00:16:25,381 --> 00:16:27,461 I don't believe you. 215 00:16:27,461 --> 00:16:30,061 Well, that's up to you but it's a fact. 216 00:16:30,061 --> 00:16:32,981 She wouldn't admit nothing. You ain't got no evidence. 217 00:16:32,981 --> 00:16:35,181 Oh, I believe we have enough. 218 00:16:37,621 --> 00:16:39,661 I need Rose back in the house. 219 00:16:39,661 --> 00:16:41,741 I need our house put back together. 220 00:16:41,741 --> 00:16:43,781 And our family put back together! 221 00:16:43,781 --> 00:16:46,581 I don't think that's going to happen. Janet. 222 00:16:46,581 --> 00:16:49,661 Help me take care of my family. 223 00:16:50,501 --> 00:16:53,781 Get off her. Don't let them. Please don't let them. 224 00:16:55,061 --> 00:16:58,421 Don't let them! Fred, calm down! Come on. 225 00:17:00,461 --> 00:17:03,621 Are you OK? Have you really got evidence? 226 00:17:03,621 --> 00:17:07,261 Detective Superintendent Bennett feels we've got all we will get. 227 00:17:07,261 --> 00:17:09,781 He's bringing these interviews to a close. 228 00:17:09,781 --> 00:17:12,701 Your part in this is over. 229 00:17:14,861 --> 00:17:16,901 Thank you. 230 00:17:27,061 --> 00:17:30,981 "Rosemary West, the wife of the Gloucester builder Frederick West, 231 00:17:30,981 --> 00:17:34,621 "appeared in court today charged jointly with him 232 00:17:34,621 --> 00:17:37,381 "of murdering 19-year-old Lynda Gough. 233 00:17:37,381 --> 00:17:39,901 "She's jointly accused with husband Frederick of killing 234 00:17:39,901 --> 00:17:42,781 "Lucy Partington and Carol Ann Cooper. 235 00:17:42,781 --> 00:17:46,101 "Both their bodies were found in the cellar. Hidden under a blanket, 236 00:17:46,101 --> 00:17:49,701 "Rosemary West is led into court to face a fresh murder charge. 237 00:17:49,701 --> 00:17:51,821 "She's jointly accused of killing 238 00:17:51,821 --> 00:17:54,781 "21-year-old Swiss student Therese Siegenthaler 239 00:17:54,781 --> 00:17:56,301 "who vanished..." 240 00:17:56,301 --> 00:17:59,701 "Led to the discovery at Cromwell Street of the body of 18-year-old 241 00:17:59,701 --> 00:18:03,501 "Juanita Mott. She disappeared in 1975." 242 00:18:03,501 --> 00:18:07,101 "The wife of Gloucester builder Frederick West has been charged 243 00:18:07,101 --> 00:18:09,301 "with murdering her daughter, Heather. 244 00:18:09,301 --> 00:18:13,741 "The teenager's remains were among those found at the Wests' home..." 245 00:18:13,741 --> 00:18:16,821 "She said nothing in the 3-minute hearing, listened then nodded 246 00:18:16,821 --> 00:18:18,941 "as the two new charges were put to her." 247 00:18:18,941 --> 00:18:22,181 "Police identified the remains as Lynda Gough, 248 00:18:22,181 --> 00:18:24,781 "found under the ground floor bathroom. 249 00:18:24,781 --> 00:18:28,421 "The next day the search unearthed the remains of Carol Cooper, 250 00:18:28,421 --> 00:18:32,141 "again in the basement. Even as the last of the nine victims 251 00:18:32,141 --> 00:18:34,221 "was discovered, the search team..." 252 00:18:34,221 --> 00:18:36,821 So which one's Lucy? That one. 253 00:18:36,821 --> 00:18:39,701 And which one's Max? That one. (DOOR OPENS) 254 00:18:42,341 --> 00:18:44,781 I just wanted to say sorry. 255 00:18:44,781 --> 00:18:46,501 Why? 256 00:18:49,661 --> 00:18:51,981 For saying you shouldn't have done it. 257 00:18:51,981 --> 00:18:54,421 I saw her on the telly. 258 00:18:54,421 --> 00:18:57,181 They've both been sent for trial. 259 00:18:59,141 --> 00:19:01,581 You can forget it now. 260 00:19:01,581 --> 00:19:03,821 Move on, yeah? 261 00:19:38,141 --> 00:19:40,261 Are you ready to go? 262 00:19:45,421 --> 00:19:47,701 Come on, Mum! 263 00:19:52,141 --> 00:19:54,701 (THEY ALL SHOUT EXCITEDLY) 264 00:20:01,221 --> 00:20:03,981 You all right? Yeah. 265 00:20:03,981 --> 00:20:05,941 I can't do this any more. 266 00:20:07,741 --> 00:20:11,541 We're out of sausages. Fridge is full of them. And rolls. 267 00:20:11,541 --> 00:20:13,941 All right, I'll go. 268 00:20:13,941 --> 00:20:16,301 Oh, Mum! Don't leave! 269 00:20:16,301 --> 00:20:18,661 Back in a minute. 270 00:20:18,661 --> 00:20:20,661 Go and play football. 271 00:20:20,661 --> 00:20:23,261 Come on, Mum! 272 00:20:27,381 --> 00:20:29,501 (PHONE RINGS) 273 00:20:29,501 --> 00:20:33,301 Hello. "Janet, it's me. How are you?" 274 00:20:35,821 --> 00:20:37,741 I'm fine. 275 00:20:37,741 --> 00:20:40,701 "I'm relieved to hear your voice." 276 00:20:41,541 --> 00:20:43,381 Where are you calling from? 277 00:20:43,381 --> 00:20:47,141 "Birmingham. Winson Green Prison." How did you get this number? 278 00:20:47,141 --> 00:20:50,741 Talk to the screws nicely, they can get anything. 279 00:20:51,541 --> 00:20:53,621 You see, I need your help, Janet. 280 00:20:53,621 --> 00:20:55,781 "What do you mean?" 281 00:20:55,781 --> 00:21:00,701 I can't discuss it over the phone, can you come and see me? "No." 282 00:21:00,701 --> 00:21:04,301 Fred, my involvement with you is over, I've... 283 00:21:04,301 --> 00:21:06,581 I've gone back to normal family life. 284 00:21:06,581 --> 00:21:08,701 "That's grand, that's lovely. 285 00:21:08,701 --> 00:21:12,101 "Please give me this one bit of help, I'd be so grateful." 286 00:21:14,101 --> 00:21:16,181 I need you, Janet, please. 287 00:21:19,181 --> 00:21:23,101 Right, I'm off. Right, love, bye. See ya. See ya. 288 00:21:25,181 --> 00:21:28,341 I might be late tonight. If Mike's not back, can you sort tea? God! 289 00:21:28,341 --> 00:21:30,461 No problem. I'll be back. 290 00:21:30,461 --> 00:21:33,701 Anything special? No, it's just a late lecture. 291 00:21:33,701 --> 00:21:35,621 See you. 292 00:22:15,261 --> 00:22:17,221 Janet. All right? 293 00:22:17,221 --> 00:22:19,581 You sit here. 294 00:22:19,581 --> 00:22:21,101 OK. 295 00:22:39,981 --> 00:22:43,021 You can't divorce me. What? 296 00:22:43,021 --> 00:22:45,901 We haven't even got round to getting married yet. 297 00:22:48,181 --> 00:22:50,421 So, how come you need a lawyer? 298 00:22:51,821 --> 00:22:54,301 I'm doing it for Fred West. 299 00:23:01,581 --> 00:23:03,621 How come? 300 00:23:03,621 --> 00:23:06,141 He asked me to. 301 00:23:07,821 --> 00:23:11,461 You've been to see him? Yeah, at his request. 302 00:23:11,461 --> 00:23:13,501 I can't believe it. 303 00:23:13,501 --> 00:23:18,221 It was a practical matter... And you agreed. ..he needed help with. 304 00:23:18,221 --> 00:23:20,261 You must be mad. 305 00:23:29,741 --> 00:23:32,101 You're only finding him a solicitor? 306 00:23:32,101 --> 00:23:34,141 Yeah. 307 00:23:36,581 --> 00:23:38,421 Although... 308 00:23:39,501 --> 00:23:41,341 What? 309 00:23:41,341 --> 00:23:44,781 I get the feeling that there's more that he wants to tell me. 310 00:23:48,701 --> 00:23:50,941 About what? 311 00:23:50,941 --> 00:23:53,261 About what he did, what Rose did. 312 00:23:55,221 --> 00:23:57,301 Such as? 313 00:23:58,101 --> 00:24:00,221 I don't know, Mike, 314 00:24:00,221 --> 00:24:03,861 and if I did I wouldn't want to talk to you about it. 315 00:24:03,861 --> 00:24:07,181 Our life got in such a terrible mess before because of him 316 00:24:07,181 --> 00:24:09,741 so if you don't want me to do this... No, no, no. 317 00:24:09,741 --> 00:24:11,981 I'm fine. I'm taking my medication. 318 00:24:14,861 --> 00:24:16,981 So long as you're OK with it. 319 00:24:39,181 --> 00:24:41,101 Yes, please. 320 00:24:46,901 --> 00:24:48,901 I saw they found Anna. 321 00:24:50,581 --> 00:24:52,541 I know. 322 00:24:53,341 --> 00:24:55,461 My worst fear's confirmed. 323 00:24:59,741 --> 00:25:02,301 The memories... 324 00:25:03,821 --> 00:25:05,941 Memories of her keep flooding back. 325 00:25:07,381 --> 00:25:09,741 Walking down the river in the moonlight, 326 00:25:12,621 --> 00:25:15,221 the smell of her hair, her laughter, 327 00:25:18,301 --> 00:25:21,821 making love on the blanket under the old oak tree. 328 00:25:23,661 --> 00:25:25,741 Who killed her, Fred? 329 00:25:28,421 --> 00:25:30,541 I think it was Rena. 330 00:25:32,581 --> 00:25:35,061 How did you know where she was buried? 331 00:25:35,541 --> 00:25:38,581 Because I heard her calling to me, Janet. 332 00:25:38,581 --> 00:25:41,381 Do you really expect me to believe that? 333 00:25:41,381 --> 00:25:44,701 Life's full of such wonders and mysteries, Janet. 334 00:25:44,701 --> 00:25:47,421 It's a wonder you came into my life. 335 00:25:47,421 --> 00:25:49,861 An even bigger wonder you're the image of my Anna. 336 00:25:49,861 --> 00:25:52,341 Did you ever see a picture of her? Yeah. 337 00:25:52,341 --> 00:25:56,061 I could no more hurt Anna than I could hurt you. 338 00:25:56,741 --> 00:26:02,341 If you want the truth about Anna, and my whole life, I've... 339 00:26:02,741 --> 00:26:04,781 I've written it down. 340 00:26:07,621 --> 00:26:10,821 Look. "I was loved..." 341 00:26:10,821 --> 00:26:15,021 By an angel. My Anna was an angel. 342 00:26:16,061 --> 00:26:18,221 You've written "angle". 343 00:26:20,541 --> 00:26:22,741 In fact, half of this is all misspelt. 344 00:26:25,421 --> 00:26:29,581 Well, I know I was... I left school at 14, so I... 345 00:26:32,301 --> 00:26:35,501 You could help me, Janet. You can help me write my true life story. 346 00:26:35,501 --> 00:26:37,741 Then you'd know everything, wouldn't you? 347 00:26:37,741 --> 00:26:40,741 When this is over 348 00:26:40,741 --> 00:26:43,421 I want you to tell the world what really happened. 349 00:26:43,421 --> 00:26:45,861 The truth needs to come out. 350 00:26:56,541 --> 00:27:00,701 "Dear Janet, my book is coming along well thanks to your help. 351 00:27:00,701 --> 00:27:03,581 "I'm looking forward to seeing you again 352 00:27:03,581 --> 00:27:06,621 "so you can read more about Anna." 353 00:27:06,621 --> 00:27:08,941 "Dear Fred, I hope to be able 354 00:27:08,941 --> 00:27:11,781 "to get up to Birmingham again early next month. 355 00:27:11,781 --> 00:27:15,221 "I've brought you some T-shirts, as you asked, 356 00:27:15,221 --> 00:27:19,221 "and I'm really looking forward to reading the next part of your book." 357 00:27:19,221 --> 00:27:24,661 "Dear Janet, the more I write my book the more I think about Anna 358 00:27:24,661 --> 00:27:29,021 "and the more I think about her, the more I know she was the one. 359 00:27:29,021 --> 00:27:33,341 "When I fell in love with Rose, it was the Anna in Rose that I saw." 360 00:27:33,341 --> 00:27:35,261 Only one L in "peaceful". 361 00:27:35,261 --> 00:27:37,901 "But you too are my guide, Janet, for I see 362 00:27:37,901 --> 00:27:42,381 "Anna in you too but I cannot see her in Rose no more as she do not 363 00:27:42,381 --> 00:27:44,941 "even answer my letters. 364 00:27:44,941 --> 00:27:47,981 "It's hard for me to face this but I have realised 365 00:27:47,981 --> 00:27:51,981 "that Rose loved Rose and no-one else and so as Anna is dead 366 00:27:51,981 --> 00:27:55,141 "I am left with only you, Janet, 367 00:27:55,141 --> 00:27:58,941 "as a true soul mate, but it is 368 00:27:58,941 --> 00:28:02,181 "a good job Rose do not know of how close we have become 369 00:28:02,181 --> 00:28:04,381 "as she would be very jealous." 370 00:28:04,381 --> 00:28:06,421 Hi. 371 00:28:06,861 --> 00:28:08,381 Hi. 372 00:28:08,381 --> 00:28:10,421 You all right? Yeah. 373 00:28:10,421 --> 00:28:14,341 Another? Yeah. Proper little pen pal he's becoming. 374 00:28:14,341 --> 00:28:17,141 Is he telling you stuff, like you hoped? 375 00:28:17,141 --> 00:28:20,421 There's nothing concrete, but the more I open 376 00:28:20,421 --> 00:28:23,621 the lines of communication the more likely I think he will. 377 00:28:25,101 --> 00:28:27,581 I've thought of a way you could get out help with this. 378 00:28:27,581 --> 00:28:30,541 What? A journalist. 379 00:28:30,541 --> 00:28:32,821 The Irish guy, the one you said seemed all right. 380 00:28:32,821 --> 00:28:34,901 I spoke to him. What? 381 00:28:36,341 --> 00:28:38,381 He's the Mirror crime reporter. 382 00:28:40,141 --> 00:28:43,421 I don't want to talk to any journalists, Mike. 383 00:28:43,421 --> 00:28:46,421 I bet he'll have information that can help you. 384 00:28:47,341 --> 00:28:50,021 These guys have all kinds of sources. 385 00:29:07,381 --> 00:29:10,661 Mike? Yeah. Good to meet you. 386 00:29:10,661 --> 00:29:12,741 Janet. 387 00:29:12,741 --> 00:29:14,141 Hi. 388 00:29:14,141 --> 00:29:17,181 I think there are more bodies. 389 00:29:17,181 --> 00:29:20,941 What makes you say that? I'm hearing there were ten murders 390 00:29:20,941 --> 00:29:23,501 between 1971 and 1979 391 00:29:23,501 --> 00:29:27,141 and he had only one between 1979 and 1994. 392 00:29:27,141 --> 00:29:29,941 That's 15 years. Only one murder? 393 00:29:29,941 --> 00:29:32,221 Do you believe that? 394 00:29:32,221 --> 00:29:34,541 Then there's who did the killing. 395 00:29:36,781 --> 00:29:40,341 Fred, and in some cases, with Rose's help. 396 00:29:40,341 --> 00:29:43,701 You know Fred has a younger brother called John? 397 00:29:43,701 --> 00:29:45,261 Yeah. 398 00:29:45,261 --> 00:29:50,261 Have the police mentioned to you anything about a so-called cult? 399 00:29:50,261 --> 00:29:53,861 Fred, Rose, John, with others possibly. 400 00:29:53,861 --> 00:29:57,181 The ritual killing of maybe 20 children 401 00:29:57,181 --> 00:29:59,381 whose names we don't even know yet. 402 00:29:59,381 --> 00:30:02,421 Oh, my God! It could be just a rumour, 403 00:30:02,421 --> 00:30:05,821 but knowing Fred, would you really rule it out? 404 00:30:05,821 --> 00:30:08,381 And if there are more bodies, 405 00:30:08,381 --> 00:30:11,221 surely they have to be found. 406 00:30:15,861 --> 00:30:18,501 Are you still in touch with him? Yeah. 407 00:30:18,501 --> 00:30:20,741 Hoping to get him to make further admissions? 408 00:30:20,741 --> 00:30:24,461 Not least about Rose, he's confident she's going to get off. 409 00:30:24,461 --> 00:30:26,741 You're not working with the police any more? No. 410 00:30:26,741 --> 00:30:31,661 I'd be glad to work with you. Glad to pass you any information 411 00:30:31,661 --> 00:30:34,141 that comes my way in case it helps. 412 00:30:35,021 --> 00:30:39,181 And, of course, we could pay a token amount up front. 413 00:30:39,181 --> 00:30:43,261 But we wouldn't print the story until after Fred and Rose have been tried. 414 00:30:43,261 --> 00:30:45,981 We won't do anything which might prejudice the trial. 415 00:30:48,141 --> 00:30:52,341 And after the trial there could be a substantial amount. 416 00:30:56,701 --> 00:30:58,941 I think you should do it, love. 417 00:30:58,941 --> 00:31:01,781 And won't it jeopardise the court case? 418 00:31:01,781 --> 00:31:04,781 Not if you don't have to give evidence. 419 00:31:09,061 --> 00:31:13,341 I'd be on me bike outside the chippy, girls looking at me all sulky, like. 420 00:31:13,341 --> 00:31:16,181 "Coming on the back, love?" As often as not, they did. 421 00:31:16,181 --> 00:31:19,421 King of Ledbury, I was. It was the quiff that did it, Janet. 422 00:31:19,421 --> 00:31:22,781 Never quite the same since the accident. 423 00:31:22,781 --> 00:31:26,901 Accident? Yeah. I come off my bike one night. Bust me head real bad. 424 00:31:26,901 --> 00:31:30,061 (SNIFFS) The doctor pronounced me dead. 425 00:31:30,061 --> 00:31:34,541 Woke up on the bloody mortuary slab. Here, feel the scar. 426 00:31:34,541 --> 00:31:36,581 Go on. 427 00:31:49,061 --> 00:31:51,581 Oh, I've got a present for you. 428 00:31:54,381 --> 00:31:57,221 Bambi. Is that it? 429 00:31:58,341 --> 00:32:00,661 That's my favourite ever. Yeah, you said. 430 00:32:00,661 --> 00:32:02,821 Have you seen it? Yeah. 431 00:32:02,821 --> 00:32:05,341 It breaks my heart, that. 432 00:32:05,341 --> 00:32:08,701 And the bit that always gets to me most is 433 00:32:08,701 --> 00:32:12,341 when Bambi's wandering through the woods and the... 434 00:32:12,341 --> 00:32:17,021 snow's coming down and he's calling for his mother. You remember? 435 00:32:17,021 --> 00:32:18,861 Yeah. 436 00:32:22,621 --> 00:32:26,261 When a youngster calls for their mum and their mum don't come, Janet,... 437 00:32:29,501 --> 00:32:31,541 And then Bambi's dad says 438 00:32:33,301 --> 00:32:36,781 "Your mother can't be with you any more." 439 00:32:45,501 --> 00:32:47,621 I ain't going there with them. 440 00:32:49,461 --> 00:32:51,981 You ain't going where? 441 00:32:54,061 --> 00:32:56,101 The barn. 442 00:32:57,061 --> 00:32:58,781 What? 443 00:33:03,501 --> 00:33:05,301 Who was in the barn? 444 00:33:07,581 --> 00:33:09,101 Rose? 445 00:33:11,341 --> 00:33:13,221 Your brother, John? 446 00:33:19,741 --> 00:33:22,381 Are you saying they took children in there? 447 00:33:26,741 --> 00:33:28,661 What happened? 448 00:33:31,981 --> 00:33:34,861 They hung 'em from the beam. 449 00:33:40,061 --> 00:33:44,181 I used to go out by the sub station, but I could still hear their cries. 450 00:33:48,901 --> 00:33:51,621 If I covered my eyes, I could still hear them now. 451 00:34:14,221 --> 00:34:16,381 I can't get it out of my head. 452 00:34:18,381 --> 00:34:21,661 I mean, he's told me horrific things in the past but nothing like this. 453 00:34:23,501 --> 00:34:25,581 I don't know what to do with it. 454 00:34:25,581 --> 00:34:28,261 I can't sleep and I can't talk to Mike about it. 455 00:34:28,261 --> 00:34:31,381 Well, you can talk about it to me all you like, love. 456 00:34:31,381 --> 00:34:33,501 I know, I know, but 457 00:34:34,381 --> 00:34:36,501 I still can't get rid of the pictures. 458 00:34:36,501 --> 00:34:39,741 It's the sounds, the cries of children, I've got 459 00:34:39,741 --> 00:34:42,341 children, Sid, and however hard I try... 460 00:34:42,341 --> 00:34:44,981 Janet, listen... I can't stop thinking about somebody 461 00:34:44,981 --> 00:34:48,541 doing those things to them. Then stop. 462 00:34:48,541 --> 00:34:51,101 For your own peace of mind, stop. 463 00:34:56,621 --> 00:34:59,021 I can't. 464 00:35:10,821 --> 00:35:15,021 How many more dead are there that we don't even know about? 465 00:35:16,461 --> 00:35:18,501 Five? 466 00:35:21,061 --> 00:35:22,621 Ten? 467 00:35:23,901 --> 00:35:26,301 I need to know, Fred. 468 00:35:27,741 --> 00:35:29,301 20? 469 00:35:30,021 --> 00:35:31,581 At least. 470 00:35:36,181 --> 00:35:38,701 And you will know about them all, Janet, one day, 471 00:35:38,701 --> 00:35:42,341 I swear. You won't be left with unanswered questions, as I've been. 472 00:35:43,861 --> 00:35:45,621 What unanswered questions? 473 00:35:45,621 --> 00:35:49,621 About who killed Anna. If you ever find that out, Janet, 474 00:35:49,621 --> 00:35:53,821 that it was Rena, or whoever, come to my resting place and tell me, 475 00:35:53,821 --> 00:35:56,661 and then I shall have some peace. 476 00:35:56,661 --> 00:35:59,701 But I want to help give you peace too, Janet. 477 00:35:59,701 --> 00:36:03,061 Then help me. Oh, I'm trying. 478 00:36:05,421 --> 00:36:09,341 My head's all muddled by all the distress that Rose 479 00:36:09,341 --> 00:36:12,141 is causing me. Rose isn't even here. 480 00:36:12,141 --> 00:36:15,181 Yeah, but she's in here, she's in here. 481 00:36:15,181 --> 00:36:19,141 When we were first together, I was in charge, but... 482 00:36:19,141 --> 00:36:21,621 she takes pleasure in making me feel small. 483 00:36:22,981 --> 00:36:26,181 She thinks she has power over me even now but she doesn't. 484 00:36:26,181 --> 00:36:28,381 Then make that clear to her. 485 00:36:28,381 --> 00:36:32,261 How? She won't answer my letters and when we're in court 486 00:36:32,261 --> 00:36:34,781 for the remand hearing she looks... 487 00:36:34,781 --> 00:36:37,581 looks at me like I'm not even in the same room. 488 00:36:37,581 --> 00:36:40,181 Then treat her the same way. 489 00:36:42,661 --> 00:36:47,101 What d'you mean? The next time you're together in court, 490 00:36:47,101 --> 00:36:49,901 just ignore her. 491 00:36:49,901 --> 00:36:53,421 Make her feel the way that she makes you feel. 492 00:36:53,421 --> 00:36:59,141 You have to make the final break with her, however painful. 493 00:36:59,141 --> 00:37:02,221 I don't think I've got the strength. 494 00:37:04,301 --> 00:37:05,861 Unless... 495 00:37:06,861 --> 00:37:08,661 Unless what? 496 00:37:09,981 --> 00:37:11,981 Unless you were there. 497 00:37:14,701 --> 00:37:17,581 See, if you were there Anna would be there 498 00:37:17,581 --> 00:37:20,341 and Anna would give me the strength to... 499 00:37:20,341 --> 00:37:22,381 show Rose I don't need her any more. 500 00:37:25,061 --> 00:37:27,101 You see that? 501 00:37:37,261 --> 00:37:39,301 You look great. 502 00:37:39,301 --> 00:37:40,821 Thanks. 503 00:37:40,821 --> 00:37:43,181 You're sure you don't want me to come with you? 504 00:37:43,181 --> 00:37:45,501 Yeah, positive. Thanks. 505 00:38:36,421 --> 00:38:38,181 Where does this case stand? 506 00:38:38,181 --> 00:38:42,101 Ma'am, the matter's being dealt with by Gloucestershire Constabulary. 507 00:38:42,101 --> 00:38:45,741 We anticipate there may be further charges. We request 508 00:38:45,741 --> 00:38:48,261 the defendants are held for another four weeks 509 00:38:48,261 --> 00:38:52,421 for a committable bundle to be gathered. Thank you. 510 00:38:52,421 --> 00:38:56,301 Do you have any representations to make on behalf of Mr West, Mr Miles? 511 00:38:56,301 --> 00:39:00,101 No, Ma'am. And on behalf of Rosemary West? No, Ma'am. 512 00:39:00,101 --> 00:39:02,861 You're both remanded in custody whilst the Prosecution 513 00:39:02,861 --> 00:39:05,541 continues to put together its committal papers. 514 00:39:05,541 --> 00:39:09,661 A provisional date for the committal hearing has been set 515 00:39:09,661 --> 00:39:12,501 at 6th February. You will return to court then. 516 00:39:13,221 --> 00:39:15,221 Do you understand? 517 00:39:15,221 --> 00:39:17,621 Yes, Ma'am. 518 00:39:20,861 --> 00:39:22,901 Mrs West? 519 00:39:28,021 --> 00:39:29,861 Take them down. 520 00:39:32,661 --> 00:39:34,301 Rose... 521 00:39:36,101 --> 00:39:37,901 Rose, please. Rose. 522 00:40:25,261 --> 00:40:28,101 They're model planes. They're war planes. 523 00:40:28,101 --> 00:40:30,021 Right, they're ready. 524 00:40:30,021 --> 00:40:33,461 Oh, that's mine! Hey, leave them a minute, they're hot. 525 00:40:33,461 --> 00:40:35,061 Hey! 526 00:40:44,541 --> 00:40:46,981 Hi, my name's Janet Leach. 527 00:40:46,981 --> 00:40:49,941 I've got a call booked with a prisoner at 4 o'clock. 528 00:40:50,821 --> 00:40:52,781 Frederick West. 529 00:40:52,781 --> 00:40:55,661 Thanks, Mum. These are well good. 530 00:40:55,661 --> 00:40:57,901 Yeah, they're very nice. Thanks, Mum. 531 00:41:04,861 --> 00:41:06,661 "Janet? 532 00:41:06,661 --> 00:41:08,421 "How are you?" 533 00:41:09,661 --> 00:41:11,781 Fine, thanks. 534 00:41:11,781 --> 00:41:13,901 "I've not seen you in a while." 535 00:41:14,741 --> 00:41:18,621 No, well, it's been difficult with my college work and everything. 536 00:41:18,621 --> 00:41:21,301 "Did you get that visiting order?" 537 00:41:23,861 --> 00:41:27,381 Yeah, but I rang to say I can't make it. 538 00:41:30,421 --> 00:41:32,341 Oh, I see. 539 00:41:34,461 --> 00:41:36,741 Well, when can you make it? 540 00:41:40,301 --> 00:41:43,901 Well, as long as it's not because you're angry with me. 541 00:41:43,901 --> 00:41:47,541 Well, I thought after what happened in court, 542 00:41:48,421 --> 00:41:50,781 I thought maybe you thought I'd let you down. 543 00:41:53,821 --> 00:41:56,381 If you let anyone down, Fred, it was yourself. 544 00:41:56,381 --> 00:41:58,781 "Or made you feel like you were second best. 545 00:41:58,781 --> 00:42:02,261 "You see, I meant what I said about Anna being the one 546 00:42:02,261 --> 00:42:05,901 "and that I see her more in you than I do in Rose." 547 00:42:07,701 --> 00:42:10,581 Fred, I don't give a damn about where you see Anna. 548 00:42:10,581 --> 00:42:14,181 "Ah, but you do. I can tell and... and believe me, 549 00:42:14,181 --> 00:42:16,501 "nothing's changed in my feelings for you. 550 00:42:16,501 --> 00:42:20,781 "It's just that I had to give Rose one last chance to show she loved me. 551 00:42:20,781 --> 00:42:22,821 "D'you see?" 552 00:42:29,301 --> 00:42:32,421 I really think we can move things on in the New Year. 553 00:42:35,581 --> 00:42:37,661 It's my go. 554 00:42:37,661 --> 00:42:40,781 Why do you want my go? 555 00:42:40,781 --> 00:42:43,221 "That your kids I can hear?" 556 00:42:43,221 --> 00:42:44,541 Yeah. 557 00:42:48,541 --> 00:42:52,821 Well, save a place for me at the Christmas dinner table, eh? 558 00:42:55,101 --> 00:42:58,661 You so nearly got away with it! (DIALLING TONE) 559 00:43:24,541 --> 00:43:28,661 "In Australia, thousands welcomed the spectacular..." 560 00:43:28,661 --> 00:43:30,741 My go. 561 00:43:30,741 --> 00:43:33,061 Ten, ten, ten, ten. 562 00:43:34,141 --> 00:43:35,861 (PHONE RINGS) 563 00:43:41,941 --> 00:43:43,421 Hello? 564 00:43:43,421 --> 00:43:45,301 Yeah, yeah, I am. 565 00:43:45,301 --> 00:43:47,221 Why, what's happened? 566 00:44:03,341 --> 00:44:05,421 He's hung himself. 567 00:44:14,701 --> 00:44:18,221 Made a rope out of his bed linen, apparently. 568 00:44:18,221 --> 00:44:20,341 Obviously planned it carefully. 569 00:44:21,141 --> 00:44:23,261 Seems you were due to visit him? 570 00:44:23,261 --> 00:44:27,261 Yeah, um, he wanted me to visit before Christmas 571 00:44:27,261 --> 00:44:29,581 but it wasn't possible. 572 00:44:30,141 --> 00:44:32,421 Do you think that might be anything to do with it? 573 00:44:34,941 --> 00:44:37,301 Are you saying that's why he killed himself, 574 00:44:39,141 --> 00:44:41,501 that this is my fault? You were 575 00:44:41,501 --> 00:44:44,261 playing with fire, Mrs Leach, I tried to warn you. 576 00:44:44,261 --> 00:44:47,061 The fact is it will now be very difficult to convict Rose West. 577 00:44:47,061 --> 00:44:49,941 The one person who could tell us what she's done is dead. 578 00:44:49,941 --> 00:44:53,941 What's more, his death means any obligation of confidentiality 579 00:44:53,941 --> 00:44:56,461 that you had about conversations with Fred is gone. 580 00:44:56,461 --> 00:44:58,661 Now you must tell me everything and I mean everything 581 00:44:58,661 --> 00:45:01,061 that he ever said to you. 582 00:45:01,061 --> 00:45:03,341 What did he tell you about the barn? 583 00:45:03,341 --> 00:45:04,821 Um... 584 00:45:06,021 --> 00:45:07,861 only fragments. 585 00:45:07,861 --> 00:45:11,821 He spoke about standing outside and hearing the cries of children. 586 00:45:11,821 --> 00:45:14,061 And did he say that Rose was there? 587 00:45:14,061 --> 00:45:16,821 I asked him about Rose being inside 588 00:45:16,821 --> 00:45:19,221 and about his brother, John, too, 589 00:45:20,501 --> 00:45:22,981 but he never really gave a clear answer. 590 00:45:22,981 --> 00:45:25,501 Well, we're aware of the barn stories. 591 00:45:25,501 --> 00:45:29,501 We'll continue to look into it, John West is still under investigation, 592 00:45:29,501 --> 00:45:32,261 but Rose West won't be convicted on rumour. 593 00:45:33,141 --> 00:45:34,941 I need evidence. 594 00:45:34,941 --> 00:45:39,421 We found the remains of Therese Siegenthaler under the cellar floor. 595 00:45:39,421 --> 00:45:42,981 Did he speak to you privately about her? 596 00:45:44,261 --> 00:45:47,261 I only heard what he said in police interviews. 597 00:45:48,741 --> 00:45:50,461 Shirley Hubbard? 598 00:45:50,461 --> 00:45:53,501 The same. Only what he said in the interviews. 599 00:45:53,501 --> 00:45:56,701 We believe that Fred left her with Rose for the day, 600 00:45:56,701 --> 00:46:00,221 that Rose used various instruments to torture and sexually violate 601 00:46:00,221 --> 00:46:03,461 the girl before Fred came home and jointly they murdered her. 602 00:46:03,461 --> 00:46:06,101 Did he discuss that privately with you? 603 00:46:06,101 --> 00:46:07,701 No. 604 00:46:07,701 --> 00:46:11,341 But he told you Rose was involved in some of the murders? 605 00:46:11,341 --> 00:46:13,181 Yeah, and... 606 00:46:13,181 --> 00:46:16,461 how cold-hearted and cruel she could be. 607 00:46:16,461 --> 00:46:18,501 But it's detail I need 608 00:46:18,501 --> 00:46:20,941 if we're to make the charges stick. 609 00:46:20,941 --> 00:46:25,501 I know and I'm trying to give you all the detail that I can remember. 610 00:46:31,541 --> 00:46:33,541 Anna McFall. 611 00:46:33,541 --> 00:46:36,021 Yeah, he often spoke about Anna to me. 612 00:46:37,861 --> 00:46:40,341 You helped him write this, I believe. 613 00:46:41,861 --> 00:46:43,421 Yeah. 614 00:46:44,581 --> 00:46:48,341 So you've read it, then? Only bits of it. 615 00:46:48,341 --> 00:46:51,141 I was hoping there'd be detail in there that would help. 616 00:46:51,141 --> 00:46:54,301 Sentimental trash, it's bullshit, he never loved her. 617 00:46:54,301 --> 00:46:56,541 He never had any real feelings for her at all. 618 00:46:56,541 --> 00:46:58,821 He just used, abused and killed her. 619 00:46:58,821 --> 00:47:00,941 He always denied killing Anna. 620 00:47:00,941 --> 00:47:05,581 Well, of course he did. Wrapped in the picnic blanket they used 621 00:47:05,581 --> 00:47:09,501 to have sex on and he'd taken their baby from her womb. 622 00:47:21,541 --> 00:47:23,421 You look upset. 623 00:47:26,901 --> 00:47:30,901 I should read this before you shed too many tears. What is it? 624 00:47:30,901 --> 00:47:33,501 A copy of a letter to Rose we found in his cell. 625 00:47:45,381 --> 00:47:48,141 "Keep your promises to me. 626 00:47:48,141 --> 00:47:50,701 "You know what they are. 627 00:47:50,701 --> 00:47:55,341 "I have no present, all I have is my life. 628 00:47:55,341 --> 00:47:58,261 "I will give it to you, my darling. 629 00:48:00,301 --> 00:48:05,381 "When you are ready to come to me I will be waiting for you." 630 00:48:07,981 --> 00:48:10,341 His death was a last gift to Rose. 631 00:48:10,341 --> 00:48:13,621 Or a way of cursing the rest of her life for rejecting him. 632 00:48:13,621 --> 00:48:17,861 Either way, you were utterly irrelevant to him. 633 00:48:56,901 --> 00:48:58,901 Janet. 634 00:48:58,901 --> 00:49:00,821 It's half-eight. 635 00:49:06,181 --> 00:49:09,301 I'm not going to college today, I don't feel very well. 636 00:49:09,941 --> 00:49:11,421 All right. 637 00:49:11,421 --> 00:49:15,221 What about the kids? Do you want me to drop them at school? 638 00:49:15,221 --> 00:49:17,061 Yeah. 639 00:49:18,381 --> 00:49:19,901 Right. 640 00:49:23,221 --> 00:49:25,901 Andy, Chris, Jade, get your bags. 641 00:49:28,301 --> 00:49:30,341 (DOOR CLOSES) 642 00:49:48,781 --> 00:49:50,861 Come on. 643 00:49:52,581 --> 00:49:54,981 Right, get in. 644 00:50:30,101 --> 00:50:31,701 Janet. 645 00:50:34,061 --> 00:50:36,261 What are you doing? 646 00:50:42,941 --> 00:50:45,061 What the hell are you playing at? 647 00:50:45,781 --> 00:50:49,541 I don't... I don't know if I was going to do it. 648 00:50:49,541 --> 00:50:51,861 Yeah, well, that's what it looks like to me. 649 00:50:56,221 --> 00:50:57,701 Why? 650 00:51:02,901 --> 00:51:05,421 Christ. What were you thinking? 651 00:51:05,421 --> 00:51:08,461 I don't know, I just... Just what? What? What? What? 652 00:51:08,461 --> 00:51:10,781 You just what? 653 00:51:15,901 --> 00:51:18,061 You miss him, don't you? 654 00:51:19,221 --> 00:51:21,141 I didn't say that. 655 00:51:21,141 --> 00:51:23,501 Yeah, yeah, Christ, I can see it, you do. 656 00:51:25,901 --> 00:51:27,781 Look at me. 657 00:51:29,861 --> 00:51:32,221 You miss Fred West? 658 00:51:36,861 --> 00:51:39,021 I miss... 659 00:51:39,021 --> 00:51:41,261 I miss feeling that I mattered and... 660 00:51:41,261 --> 00:51:44,261 I miss feeling that I was needed. 661 00:51:44,261 --> 00:51:47,581 What, and you think I don't need you? Your kids don't? 662 00:51:47,581 --> 00:51:50,541 Of course you do but it's just not in the same way. 663 00:51:54,501 --> 00:51:58,341 Have you...have you any idea how hurtful that is? 664 00:52:00,741 --> 00:52:03,061 I'm sorry, Mike. 665 00:52:03,061 --> 00:52:05,021 I'm sorry. 666 00:52:05,021 --> 00:52:09,261 I really am sorry, but I just... I don't know how 667 00:52:09,261 --> 00:52:12,501 I can explain it to you. No, nor do I. 668 00:52:16,941 --> 00:52:18,541 Look... 669 00:52:19,421 --> 00:52:20,941 Look... 670 00:52:21,861 --> 00:52:24,701 I don't care 671 00:52:24,701 --> 00:52:27,541 how desperate you get, how despondent and miserable 672 00:52:27,541 --> 00:52:29,621 you are for the rest of your life. 673 00:52:29,621 --> 00:52:33,461 You cannot do this to your children. 674 00:52:51,501 --> 00:52:53,381 It's all right. 675 00:52:54,821 --> 00:52:56,981 I'm so sorry. 676 00:52:56,981 --> 00:52:58,981 It's all right. 677 00:52:58,981 --> 00:53:01,021 Come on. 678 00:53:05,821 --> 00:53:07,581 Come on. 679 00:53:07,581 --> 00:53:10,901 Jurors in the Rosemary West murder trial heard for the first time 680 00:53:10,901 --> 00:53:15,541 today the voice of her husband Fred in tapes of police interviews. 681 00:53:15,541 --> 00:53:20,341 On them, the court heard him say he was responsible for all the murders. 682 00:53:20,341 --> 00:53:23,061 Rosemary was not. He said he'd killed most victims 683 00:53:23,061 --> 00:53:27,421 because they threatened to tell his wife about his affairs with them. 684 00:53:27,421 --> 00:53:29,461 (BANG ON DOOR) 685 00:53:29,461 --> 00:53:33,461 The Prosecution say he was protecting someone. Robert Hall reports 686 00:53:33,461 --> 00:53:35,541 from Winchester Crown Court. 687 00:53:35,541 --> 00:53:38,981 "Rosemary West has always maintained she knew nothing..." 688 00:53:40,381 --> 00:53:42,701 Janet Leach? Yeah. 689 00:53:42,701 --> 00:53:45,221 I've been asked to deliver this to you. 690 00:53:45,221 --> 00:53:49,341 What is it? Your subpoena to give evidence at Rosemary West's trial 691 00:53:49,341 --> 00:53:51,381 at Winchester Crown Court. 692 00:53:57,381 --> 00:53:59,781 "Rose didn't kill no-one. 693 00:53:59,781 --> 00:54:01,541 "I killed Charmaine 694 00:54:01,541 --> 00:54:03,741 "when I came out of prison. 695 00:54:03,741 --> 00:54:05,581 "Rose had no part in this." 696 00:54:05,581 --> 00:54:09,181 Did she do it? 'Why are they calling me as a witness?' 697 00:54:09,181 --> 00:54:13,421 Rose West's lawyers asked for interview tapes to be played. 698 00:54:13,421 --> 00:54:16,461 It means the Prosecution can put Janet in the stand 699 00:54:16,461 --> 00:54:18,621 and ask her about them. 700 00:54:18,621 --> 00:54:23,621 That's good. She can tell them what Fred said about Rose on the tapes, the truth was different. 701 00:54:23,621 --> 00:54:26,661 I'm afraid I can't comment on what Counsel may ask you. 702 00:54:26,661 --> 00:54:29,221 But there are other witnesses? Of course. 703 00:54:29,221 --> 00:54:32,381 Including surviving victims who've describe how Rose 704 00:54:32,381 --> 00:54:34,461 helped Fred rape and abuse them. 705 00:54:34,461 --> 00:54:36,821 But only you can comment on the truth of the tapes. 706 00:54:41,141 --> 00:54:45,981 I just don't know if I can do it, go into a room and face that woman. 707 00:55:16,341 --> 00:55:18,941 Place your hand on the Bible and repeat after me 708 00:55:19,981 --> 00:55:22,541 I swear by Almighty God... 709 00:55:22,541 --> 00:55:24,501 I swear by Almighty God... 710 00:55:24,501 --> 00:55:27,941 that the evidence I shall give that the evidence I shall give 711 00:55:27,941 --> 00:55:31,221 shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. 712 00:55:31,221 --> 00:55:35,621 shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. 713 00:55:39,741 --> 00:55:42,981 Did Fred West ever mention a pact he'd made with Rose? 714 00:55:43,901 --> 00:55:45,701 Yes, he did. 715 00:55:46,741 --> 00:55:48,461 Um... 716 00:55:48,461 --> 00:55:51,021 he said that 717 00:55:51,021 --> 00:55:53,621 shortly before his arrest 718 00:55:53,621 --> 00:55:59,421 he and Rose had spoken and he agreed to take the blame for everything. 719 00:55:59,421 --> 00:56:03,661 On the murder of Shirley Robinson, whose body was found in the garden 720 00:56:03,661 --> 00:56:06,621 of 25 Cromwell Street, do you remember something said 721 00:56:06,621 --> 00:56:09,981 in police interviews about the position of the baby 722 00:56:09,981 --> 00:56:13,141 that she was pregnant with? Yes. 723 00:56:15,581 --> 00:56:19,101 That it wasn't found where they expected it to be. 724 00:56:20,581 --> 00:56:23,261 What did Fred West tell you about that? 725 00:56:24,301 --> 00:56:26,821 He said, "Rose would've done that." 726 00:56:26,821 --> 00:56:29,021 And what did you think he meant by that? 727 00:56:30,941 --> 00:56:34,581 That Rose must've been present at the murder 728 00:56:36,301 --> 00:56:39,141 and that she removed the baby from Shirley's womb 729 00:56:39,141 --> 00:56:42,341 before or after Shirley died. 730 00:56:45,221 --> 00:56:48,661 When Fred West described what had happened to his victims 731 00:56:48,661 --> 00:56:53,021 at Cromwell Street, did he tell you that Rose West 732 00:56:53,021 --> 00:56:55,541 was present? Yes, he did. 733 00:56:55,541 --> 00:56:57,381 And what did he say happened? 734 00:56:58,461 --> 00:57:00,581 He said that... 735 00:57:01,221 --> 00:57:05,501 he might start things off but that Rose would take over. 736 00:57:07,901 --> 00:57:11,061 He said she loved inflicting pain, 737 00:57:12,341 --> 00:57:15,741 that there were times when he'd seen her 738 00:57:15,741 --> 00:57:20,461 inflict the most terrible pain imaginable on young women. 739 00:57:20,461 --> 00:57:24,621 And you were in no doubt that he was telling the truth? 740 00:57:24,621 --> 00:57:26,901 None at all. 741 00:57:27,981 --> 00:57:30,181 One final question, Mrs Leach. 742 00:57:30,701 --> 00:57:33,261 The evidence of a number of potential witnesses 743 00:57:33,261 --> 00:57:36,461 has been compromised because they've made dealings with the press 744 00:57:36,461 --> 00:57:39,021 for financial benefit. 745 00:57:39,021 --> 00:57:42,501 Have you either spoken to the press or media 746 00:57:42,501 --> 00:57:44,781 or been paid by them? 747 00:57:53,341 --> 00:57:55,141 No, I haven't. 748 00:58:00,181 --> 00:58:01,981 No more questions, My Lord. 749 00:58:03,741 --> 00:58:05,501 (WHISPERS) 750 00:58:05,501 --> 00:58:07,621 The court will adjourn. 751 00:58:07,621 --> 00:58:11,821 We will continue with your evidence after lunch, Mrs Leach. 752 00:58:11,821 --> 00:58:13,501 All rise. 753 00:59:12,421 --> 00:59:14,421 What did they say? 754 00:59:14,821 --> 00:59:19,461 They don't care how long they have to wait. They... 755 00:59:19,461 --> 00:59:21,741 They want you back in court. 756 00:59:23,661 --> 00:59:26,821 The doctors have explained because you may have had a minor stroke 757 00:59:26,821 --> 00:59:29,061 you can't go back until you feel ready. 758 00:59:29,061 --> 00:59:32,181 I can't ever go back into that court, Mike. 759 00:59:32,181 --> 00:59:34,741 They're on to the Mirror thing. You don't know that. 760 00:59:34,741 --> 00:59:36,741 If they don't know now they'll find out. 761 00:59:46,621 --> 00:59:48,581 Who's that from? 762 00:59:49,661 --> 00:59:51,621 Hazel Savage. 763 00:59:51,621 --> 00:59:54,541 The woman detective, who was good to you? 764 00:59:54,541 --> 00:59:56,261 Yeah. 765 00:59:56,261 --> 00:59:59,381 Who wanted more than anyone else to solve the case. 766 01:00:02,661 --> 01:00:05,061 "Don't let the bastards grind you down." 767 01:00:10,901 --> 01:00:13,141 She's right, isn't she? 768 01:00:17,901 --> 01:00:19,981 What are you going to do? 769 01:00:33,381 --> 01:00:35,661 Did you ever ask yourself, Mrs Leach, 770 01:00:35,661 --> 01:00:39,941 whether some of things Fred West told you were far-fetched 771 01:00:39,941 --> 01:00:42,101 or sheer fantasy? 772 01:00:42,101 --> 01:00:45,461 That even on those occasions when he appeared to be plausible 773 01:00:45,461 --> 01:00:49,261 he was actually spinning a web of lies to draw you in? 774 01:00:49,261 --> 01:00:51,941 I often asked myself that question. 775 01:00:51,941 --> 01:00:54,381 And are you quite sure 776 01:00:54,381 --> 01:00:56,981 he wasn't just using you? 777 01:00:58,021 --> 01:00:59,901 Using me for what? 778 01:01:01,261 --> 01:01:03,981 Using you as some kind of trophy 779 01:01:03,981 --> 01:01:06,741 in order to try and make Rose jealous? 780 01:01:09,301 --> 01:01:12,141 Why did you continue your relationship with Fred West 781 01:01:12,141 --> 01:01:16,461 after your role as Appropriate Adult ended? 782 01:01:16,461 --> 01:01:20,621 Well, I... You visited him in prison regularly, did you not? 783 01:01:20,621 --> 01:01:22,821 I believed that because I had his trust 784 01:01:22,821 --> 01:01:26,501 I might eventually be able to persuade him to tell the full story. 785 01:01:26,501 --> 01:01:29,581 And when you had that full story, 786 01:01:30,621 --> 01:01:32,661 what did you intend to do with it? 787 01:01:33,581 --> 01:01:36,141 What do you mean? 788 01:01:37,061 --> 01:01:39,861 Did you think you might sell your version of it 789 01:01:39,861 --> 01:01:42,061 to the newspapers? 790 01:01:47,261 --> 01:01:50,461 May I remind you you are on oath, Mrs Leach, 791 01:01:50,461 --> 01:01:54,661 and that to lie on oath is to commit the serious crime of perjury. 792 01:01:55,821 --> 01:01:58,741 Have you sold your story to a national newspaper? 793 01:02:12,181 --> 01:02:14,901 Mrs Leach, you must answer the question. 794 01:02:16,341 --> 01:02:18,141 Yes, I have. 795 01:02:18,141 --> 01:02:20,061 (GASPS) 796 01:02:22,181 --> 01:02:26,181 And was that newspaper the Daily Mirror? Yes, it was. 797 01:02:26,181 --> 01:02:28,341 So... 798 01:02:28,341 --> 01:02:32,581 when Mr Leveson asked you whether you had entered into 799 01:02:32,581 --> 01:02:36,301 an agreement with the media to tell your story, 800 01:02:36,301 --> 01:02:37,861 you were lying? 801 01:02:37,861 --> 01:02:40,661 Yes, I was. 802 01:02:40,661 --> 01:02:43,821 You continued your relationship with Fred West for profit? 803 01:02:43,821 --> 01:02:45,741 No, that's not fair. 804 01:02:45,741 --> 01:02:48,181 You encouraged him to give the most lurid account possible 805 01:02:48,181 --> 01:02:50,821 because that would give you a better story. No. 806 01:02:50,821 --> 01:02:53,781 And you happily swallowed his lies about Rose West 807 01:02:53,781 --> 01:02:56,821 because all you wanted was a story. 808 01:02:56,821 --> 01:02:59,341 No, that's not true. 809 01:03:01,981 --> 01:03:04,381 Was Fred West emotionally attached to you? 810 01:03:09,261 --> 01:03:12,541 Were you romantically involved with Fred West? No. 811 01:03:18,501 --> 01:03:21,061 No more questions, Your Honour. 812 01:03:21,061 --> 01:03:24,701 OK. Mr Leveson. 813 01:03:29,941 --> 01:03:32,461 Last lap, Mrs Leach. 814 01:03:33,741 --> 01:03:35,381 Mrs Leach? 815 01:03:38,181 --> 01:03:41,501 You told the court you thought you could assist the police 816 01:03:41,501 --> 01:03:45,261 investigation by persuading Fred West to reveal 817 01:03:45,261 --> 01:03:47,861 important information to the police. Yes. 818 01:03:47,861 --> 01:03:51,021 After you ceased to be his Appropriate Adult 819 01:03:51,021 --> 01:03:53,661 and had begun to visit him in prison, 820 01:03:53,661 --> 01:03:58,981 did you believe there was further information you might persuade him to reveal? Yes, I did. 821 01:03:58,981 --> 01:04:03,421 Could you tell the court what information that was? 822 01:04:03,421 --> 01:04:06,301 Well... 823 01:04:10,101 --> 01:04:13,861 Fred West told me there were at least 20 more victims. 824 01:04:13,861 --> 01:04:15,901 (GASPS IN COURT) 825 01:04:17,661 --> 01:04:20,541 20? That's right. 826 01:04:20,541 --> 01:04:22,261 And you believed him? 827 01:04:22,261 --> 01:04:24,061 Yes, I did. 828 01:04:24,061 --> 01:04:27,381 Did he go into detail about who these victims might be 829 01:04:27,381 --> 01:04:31,221 or where their bodies might be found? No, he didn't, 830 01:04:31,221 --> 01:04:34,021 but I believed he was getting close to it. 831 01:04:35,861 --> 01:04:39,381 All I wanted was for him to tell the truth, 832 01:04:40,341 --> 01:04:44,061 because I'm a mother myself and... 833 01:04:44,061 --> 01:04:46,581 I know that if my child went missing 834 01:04:47,301 --> 01:04:49,781 I'd want to know the truth. 835 01:05:16,621 --> 01:05:20,901 Members of the jury, you have heard the evidence. You must now 836 01:05:20,901 --> 01:05:23,381 retire to consider your verdict. 837 01:05:30,461 --> 01:05:33,101 'Will the foreman of the jury please stand? 838 01:05:34,221 --> 01:05:38,141 'Have you reached a verdict upon which you are all agreed 839 01:05:38,141 --> 01:05:41,821 'on all counts against the defendant, Rosemary West?' 840 01:05:41,821 --> 01:05:43,621 'Yes.' 841 01:05:43,621 --> 01:05:49,341 'On count one, do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?' 842 01:05:49,341 --> 01:05:50,941 'Guilty.' 843 01:05:50,941 --> 01:05:55,941 'On count two, do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?' 844 01:05:55,941 --> 01:05:57,541 'Guilty.' 845 01:05:57,541 --> 01:06:00,741 'On count three, do you find the defendant...' 846 01:06:00,741 --> 01:06:04,781 'It's taken me ages but it fits Fred's description.' 847 01:06:06,181 --> 01:06:08,781 Country lane, sub station, 848 01:06:08,781 --> 01:06:12,541 and the map shows a barn up here. 849 01:06:12,981 --> 01:06:15,301 But there's bad news too. 850 01:06:15,301 --> 01:06:17,341 It's been demolished. 851 01:06:18,141 --> 01:06:20,701 I reckon this really could be the place. 852 01:06:23,701 --> 01:06:25,701 Then again, it might not be. 853 01:06:25,701 --> 01:06:28,821 Why would he describe it in such detail? 854 01:06:30,861 --> 01:06:33,901 Because he was a lying psychopath. 855 01:06:35,421 --> 01:06:37,941 I'll never know the truth. 856 01:06:48,941 --> 01:06:52,541 The thing is you can't un-know something, can you? 857 01:06:52,541 --> 01:06:56,061 Once someone puts some terrible knowledge in your head 858 01:06:56,061 --> 01:06:58,541 you're stuck with it forever, aren't you? 859 01:06:59,781 --> 01:07:01,901 But you came through it. 860 01:07:02,661 --> 01:07:06,661 You exposed yourself to all that poison and you came through. 861 01:07:07,421 --> 01:07:09,221 Did I? 862 01:07:09,221 --> 01:07:13,381 Try and get it. Oi, are you two in this game or not? 863 01:07:13,381 --> 01:07:15,421 Come on, Mum. 864 01:07:15,421 --> 01:07:17,221 Come on. Come on! 865 01:07:19,021 --> 01:07:21,061 (THEY LAUGH AND SHOUT) 866 01:07:55,021 --> 01:07:58,421 'I'll never stop thinking about them. 867 01:07:58,421 --> 01:08:00,621 'About all the lost lives. 868 01:08:02,501 --> 01:08:05,181 'And all the people who have to carry on 869 01:08:05,181 --> 01:08:07,741 'after what this has done to them.' 870 01:10:05,301 --> 01:10:07,621 itfc subtitles