1 00:00:01,413 --> 00:00:03,620 [Sukanya] Previously on Sister Wives One-on-One... 2 00:00:03,655 --> 00:00:06,758 They can leave whenever they want. I can't. 3 00:00:06,793 --> 00:00:10,586 It is not a double standard because you emotionally have left and abandoned them. 4 00:00:10,620 --> 00:00:14,482 Take the word back! Because I take offense to that word of abandonment. 5 00:00:14,517 --> 00:00:16,551 When Meri had an affair... 6 00:00:16,586 --> 00:00:19,517 What keeps you invested in this relationship? 7 00:00:19,551 --> 00:00:20,965 Because I love him. 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:22,827 Oh, my heart breaks when I think about their marriage 9 00:00:22,862 --> 00:00:24,896 and I don't want that. 10 00:00:24,931 --> 00:00:27,517 It's not about sides. It's about that you hurt for both of them. 11 00:00:27,551 --> 00:00:29,689 Meri's committed to staying with the family. 12 00:00:29,724 --> 00:00:33,206 Is that going to be enough for all of you? 13 00:00:33,241 --> 00:00:37,000 I don't think that's enough for anybody, but everybody makes their choices. 14 00:00:38,551 --> 00:00:41,551 [Sukanya] Coming up, the one on one conversations continue 15 00:00:41,586 --> 00:00:47,620 as I talk individually with Kody, Janelle, Robin, Christine and Meri 16 00:00:47,655 --> 00:00:50,862 to talk about the most provocative events in their lives. 17 00:00:50,896 --> 00:00:52,655 Listen, I'm carrying this load 18 00:00:52,689 --> 00:00:54,275 and I've done it all these years. 19 00:00:54,310 --> 00:00:56,034 We are going to be one family. 20 00:00:56,068 --> 00:00:59,413 That was like living in a fresh hell with Meri and Janelle. 21 00:00:59,448 --> 00:01:02,172 He's like, "You're just changing all of the agreements and everything." 22 00:01:02,206 --> 00:01:04,620 And I said, "I'm overwhelmed." 23 00:01:04,655 --> 00:01:06,793 You really are the only one 24 00:01:06,827 --> 00:01:09,344 that's having a fully functioning relationship with Kody. 25 00:01:10,310 --> 00:01:12,000 [sniffles] 26 00:01:12,034 --> 00:01:13,586 And there's this sort of pecking order. 27 00:01:13,620 --> 00:01:16,241 And Robin's like going, "I didn't do this to you. 28 00:01:16,275 --> 00:01:18,551 I didn't do this. Why are you this way?" 29 00:01:18,586 --> 00:01:20,448 Where are you and Kody right now? 30 00:01:20,482 --> 00:01:23,448 Kody and I are divorced. We're completely separate. 31 00:01:23,482 --> 00:01:26,413 She did not like her life anymore. 32 00:01:26,448 --> 00:01:30,103 She pretty much had decided, you know, "I really don't want to be here." 33 00:01:30,137 --> 00:01:34,206 - Did she ever hear you say, "I don't want you to leave"? - No. 34 00:01:34,241 --> 00:01:37,068 So are we ever going to have an intimate marriage again? 35 00:01:37,103 --> 00:01:39,620 And he just said, "Probably not." 36 00:01:41,206 --> 00:01:45,379 I'm Sukanya Krishnan and this is Sister Wives One on One. 37 00:01:48,482 --> 00:01:50,310 - Hello, hello. - [Sukanya] Hello, Meri. 38 00:01:50,344 --> 00:01:53,034 - Hi. - Come on. Sit down. 39 00:01:53,068 --> 00:01:54,965 [man] You want anything other than water over there? 40 00:01:56,137 --> 00:01:57,896 In the back of your mind, you're always worried. 41 00:01:57,931 --> 00:01:58,931 [indistinct conversation] 42 00:02:03,137 --> 00:02:06,000 [man] Stand by in five, four, three... 43 00:02:07,482 --> 00:02:10,896 So, the conversations keep getting deeper. 44 00:02:10,931 --> 00:02:13,000 - Yeah. - [Sukanya] And they keep getting harder. 45 00:02:13,034 --> 00:02:15,758 - Ooh. - [laughs] Alright, let's talk about COVID 46 00:02:15,793 --> 00:02:18,482 and how that transitioned the family. 47 00:02:18,517 --> 00:02:21,931 Um, that was already... You were feeling already very separate from them. 48 00:02:21,965 --> 00:02:24,068 - Mmm-hmm. - And here comes COVID 49 00:02:24,103 --> 00:02:27,689 um, and it kind of caught the whole family unit off guard. 50 00:02:27,724 --> 00:02:29,758 - So there was the initial protocols. - Yeah. 51 00:02:29,793 --> 00:02:33,793 And then, six months later, um, Kody kind of came up with his rules. 52 00:02:33,827 --> 00:02:35,827 - Like the nanny's rules? Are those the rules? - [laughs] 53 00:02:35,862 --> 00:02:37,620 Where I was like, "Kody, this is ridiculous." 54 00:02:37,655 --> 00:02:38,862 Well, you didn't mince words. 55 00:02:39,758 --> 00:02:42,413 - Take a look. - Okay. 56 00:02:42,448 --> 00:02:47,275 Uh, you were asking why our nanny was able to hang out with our kids 57 00:02:47,310 --> 00:02:49,758 and none of the other kids could. 58 00:02:49,793 --> 00:02:53,655 What is the nanny doing 59 00:02:53,689 --> 00:02:56,931 that makes it so they can come over? 60 00:02:56,965 --> 00:03:00,724 - What does the nanny do? - [Kody laughs] 61 00:03:00,758 --> 00:03:03,827 [Janelle] I'm looking at these rules and I'm astounded. 62 00:03:03,862 --> 00:03:07,620 "Wear mask in public. Sanitize hands after shopping. 63 00:03:07,655 --> 00:03:11,482 Sanitize purchased products and groceries with alcohol wipes 64 00:03:11,517 --> 00:03:13,206 before placing inside house. 65 00:03:13,241 --> 00:03:16,310 No eating at sit-down restaurants, only takeout. 66 00:03:16,344 --> 00:03:17,827 Clean mail with alcohol wipes." 67 00:03:19,517 --> 00:03:23,206 Okay, so there's the ten billion commandments of Kody. 68 00:03:23,241 --> 00:03:24,620 Well, I have birthday presents for you. 69 00:03:24,655 --> 00:03:27,551 I guess I'll just leave them on your porch or something, you know. 70 00:03:27,586 --> 00:03:29,862 - You can mock it or you can find a way. - [scoffs] 71 00:03:31,241 --> 00:03:32,965 - Okay. - Yeah. [clears throat] 72 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,068 Talk to me about the nanny part of it. 73 00:03:35,103 --> 00:03:39,517 Ysabel was so mad. She's like, "So I can't go over, but she can go over." 74 00:03:39,551 --> 00:03:41,172 And I'm like, "Look, I don't know why. 75 00:03:41,206 --> 00:03:43,310 I don't even know. So I'll ask dad." 76 00:03:43,344 --> 00:03:45,517 Ysabel was just mad and she's like, "I need to see my sisters. 77 00:03:45,551 --> 00:03:46,620 This is absolutely ridiculous." 78 00:03:46,655 --> 00:03:48,448 So you became very protective because you're like, 79 00:03:48,482 --> 00:03:51,551 "Well, why is the nanny able to do this and not my children?" 80 00:03:51,586 --> 00:03:55,034 It felt just um, like, just untrusted. 81 00:03:55,068 --> 00:03:56,827 Like we were just untrusted. They couldn't trust us. 82 00:03:56,862 --> 00:03:59,068 - I was very open that I was traveling. - Yeah. 83 00:03:59,103 --> 00:04:03,000 I was very open though, so in my mind, I was being trustworthy. 84 00:04:04,344 --> 00:04:06,586 Why weren't the rules out sooner? 85 00:04:06,620 --> 00:04:09,413 - 'Cause that was something that-- - I wondered the same thing. 86 00:04:09,448 --> 00:04:11,310 There was totally a lot of lost time. 87 00:04:11,344 --> 00:04:14,586 There was like, "Why isn't this being talked about?" 88 00:04:14,620 --> 00:04:17,310 Did you want to shake Kody? You were around him the whole time. 89 00:04:17,344 --> 00:04:20,620 - I don't understand. - Oh, man. He was such a grump. 90 00:04:20,655 --> 00:04:22,517 Like, but I don't understand. You were with... 91 00:04:22,551 --> 00:04:24,379 You were with him the majority of the time. 92 00:04:24,413 --> 00:04:27,172 Believe me, I was saying it. 93 00:04:27,206 --> 00:04:29,827 And all I would get back from him was, "They won't do it. 94 00:04:29,862 --> 00:04:32,517 Janelle won't do it. Christine won't do it. Nobody." 95 00:04:32,551 --> 00:04:36,724 He was in this place of his kids were, you know, 96 00:04:36,758 --> 00:04:39,000 - you've seen how all the kids have been. - Yeah. 97 00:04:39,034 --> 00:04:40,620 And... At least Janelle's kids. 98 00:04:40,655 --> 00:04:43,931 He was getting kickback everywhere he went. 99 00:04:43,965 --> 00:04:49,206 He was getting kickback for just the basic stuff. 100 00:04:49,241 --> 00:04:52,827 Why did nobody think to ask Kody and Robin before, 101 00:04:52,862 --> 00:04:55,931 "What is the nanny doing that makes it so safe that she can come over?" 102 00:04:55,965 --> 00:04:57,517 We never thought of it. 103 00:04:57,551 --> 00:04:59,551 - Why not? - Who wants to talk about, 104 00:04:59,586 --> 00:05:01,586 "When can we get back together," 105 00:05:01,620 --> 00:05:04,620 when Kody and my relationship is so terrible that it really it's like, 106 00:05:04,655 --> 00:05:08,034 "I don't necessarily want to get back together, 107 00:05:08,068 --> 00:05:10,931 but my kids really do, so I'll do whatever it takes 108 00:05:10,965 --> 00:05:13,413 to get my kids back together with everybody." 109 00:05:13,448 --> 00:05:19,172 What I had to realize was that we were seeing Kody for a couple of hours a week. 110 00:05:19,206 --> 00:05:22,034 So I just kind of thought, "You know what? 111 00:05:22,068 --> 00:05:27,344 We could go out of town and spend the whole amount of time-- 112 00:05:27,379 --> 00:05:29,517 - Together. - Together with my kids 113 00:05:29,551 --> 00:05:32,827 surrounded by so much love and acceptance 114 00:05:32,862 --> 00:05:36,517 rather than here." It was so sporadic. 115 00:05:36,551 --> 00:05:40,344 I had two households that just wouldn't keep the rules. 116 00:05:40,379 --> 00:05:41,586 Not unanimously. 117 00:05:41,620 --> 00:05:45,689 Whereas even with the adult children in Robin's house, 118 00:05:45,724 --> 00:05:48,827 she was able to maintain those rules. 119 00:05:48,862 --> 00:05:52,206 And her kids complied. And our nanny complied. 120 00:05:52,241 --> 00:05:56,448 But can you understand how some of the wives 121 00:05:56,482 --> 00:06:00,068 - felt separated and polarized from you? - By their own actions though. 122 00:06:00,103 --> 00:06:03,344 But they chose their children. They wanted to be with their children 123 00:06:03,379 --> 00:06:05,413 - and be happy with their children. - They're adult children. 124 00:06:05,448 --> 00:06:08,206 Yeah, okay. That's fine. That's fine. 125 00:06:08,241 --> 00:06:10,482 When your children are adults, they grow up, they leave. 126 00:06:10,517 --> 00:06:12,379 When they're tender ages, you protect them. 127 00:06:12,413 --> 00:06:14,379 Yes, a mother protects her children 128 00:06:14,413 --> 00:06:19,551 - and her duty to her children that are 18 and younger-- - Yeah. 129 00:06:19,586 --> 00:06:24,172 ...is a duty over her husband, but once they're adults... 130 00:06:25,034 --> 00:06:27,551 Kody, 18 is not an adult. 131 00:06:27,586 --> 00:06:29,896 Well, the 18-year-olds can keep the rules too. 132 00:06:29,931 --> 00:06:35,310 Did you feel that you had to choose between your kids and Kody at times? 133 00:06:35,344 --> 00:06:37,965 Yeah, at times it did feel like I had to kind of choose. 134 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,965 Look, I have to choose my kids. I have to choose my kids. 135 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,172 He kind of wanted you to be a little bit more... 136 00:06:44,206 --> 00:06:48,206 I think he thought I should move them out and... 137 00:06:48,241 --> 00:06:50,379 - Well he said they're 18. They're grown up-- - Yeah, but... 138 00:06:50,413 --> 00:06:52,517 That they should be able to move out and function on their own. 139 00:06:52,551 --> 00:06:55,586 Why would I want them to move out into the scary world of COVID exposure? 140 00:06:55,620 --> 00:06:59,275 I could sort of keep them safer at home, I felt like. 141 00:06:59,310 --> 00:07:02,862 Gabe and Garrison have been a real touch point, and you mentioned it before. 142 00:07:02,896 --> 00:07:05,827 - Where is this relationship today? - [winces] 143 00:07:05,862 --> 00:07:08,965 - Where is it? - Not good. Not talking. 144 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,724 You're not talking at all to Gabe and Garrison? 145 00:07:10,758 --> 00:07:12,344 Well, I am a little bit like, once in a while 146 00:07:12,379 --> 00:07:14,034 touch base you know, but it's... 147 00:07:15,758 --> 00:07:21,206 Um, I... It's like one of those relationships where we got to do a lot of work. 148 00:07:21,241 --> 00:07:23,517 Let's watch this and we'll get your reaction. 149 00:07:25,586 --> 00:07:29,620 So because of the COVID 19, I've been the only member of the family 150 00:07:29,655 --> 00:07:31,344 who's been going from house to house. 151 00:07:31,379 --> 00:07:33,413 So I've been away from Janelle's house 152 00:07:33,448 --> 00:07:37,310 because Garrison and Gabriel have more extended exposure. 153 00:07:37,344 --> 00:07:42,724 I actually think my boys think their dad is being too careful. 154 00:07:42,758 --> 00:07:47,103 - Well, I'm hopeful that he's-- - The whole family is going to fall apart. We're done. 155 00:07:47,137 --> 00:07:52,103 I feel like everyone in my family is so focused on being right 156 00:07:52,137 --> 00:07:54,241 that this is ruining our family. 157 00:07:54,275 --> 00:07:58,413 Here's the rules. If we abide by them, I'm coming around. 158 00:07:58,448 --> 00:08:00,103 You get to choose. 159 00:08:00,137 --> 00:08:05,758 I think the problem here honestly is whether I'm being respected in my home or not. 160 00:08:09,344 --> 00:08:11,137 - That's it in a nutshell. - For you? 161 00:08:11,172 --> 00:08:14,172 It was the... Was it the respect or lack of respect from your boys? 162 00:08:14,206 --> 00:08:17,310 Yes, I make rules, you guys abide by them. You know, that type of thing. 163 00:08:17,344 --> 00:08:20,103 And I understand that these two needed their social lives. 164 00:08:20,137 --> 00:08:21,344 I totally get it. 165 00:08:21,379 --> 00:08:24,137 But they, in this case, COVID's different... 166 00:08:24,172 --> 00:08:26,275 It's changed everything for everybody 167 00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:28,206 and they want it all to be the same. 168 00:08:28,241 --> 00:08:31,310 And they need to realize that they should go and date that girlfriend. 169 00:08:31,344 --> 00:08:34,000 That's fine, but you need to move out of the house 170 00:08:34,034 --> 00:08:35,827 so that I can be home. 171 00:08:35,862 --> 00:08:38,379 Are you off course with your relationship with Gabe and Garrison? 172 00:08:39,379 --> 00:08:42,275 Oh, yeah. We need therapy. 173 00:08:42,310 --> 00:08:46,793 Yeah, I need... I need to sit down with my boys and get something straight 174 00:08:46,827 --> 00:08:51,103 because I am... I've gotten to the point where I'm so angry 175 00:08:51,137 --> 00:08:54,137 about what happened, we're not communicating. And I think they are too. 176 00:08:55,793 --> 00:08:59,724 I think they... They're like, "Well, you can say respect me, 177 00:08:59,758 --> 00:09:03,689 but... Look, I... Should I respect you 178 00:09:03,724 --> 00:09:05,827 'cause we're... You're dividing the family." 179 00:09:05,862 --> 00:09:09,103 But if the boys really wanted to see their dad so much, 180 00:09:09,137 --> 00:09:11,413 why didn't they follow his rules? 181 00:09:11,448 --> 00:09:15,655 Um, you know they were, but Kody didn't trust that they were being... 182 00:09:15,689 --> 00:09:18,724 Because there was a couple times they said, "Oh, I was really lying about that." 183 00:09:18,758 --> 00:09:20,172 So... [chuckles] 184 00:09:20,206 --> 00:09:22,413 I discovered from social media. 185 00:09:22,448 --> 00:09:25,655 I discovered from other sources what they were doing. 186 00:09:25,689 --> 00:09:29,862 And it... To be honest with you, I mean there's a lot of exaggerating going here. 187 00:09:29,896 --> 00:09:34,724 I had one point where I had... Gabriel and Garrison were saying, 188 00:09:34,758 --> 00:09:37,620 "Dad hasn't been here for nine months." 189 00:09:37,655 --> 00:09:40,310 And I was there the entire time. 190 00:09:40,344 --> 00:09:44,000 Where is the relationship between the boys and Kody now? 191 00:09:44,034 --> 00:09:46,862 - Still very strained. Yeah, it's still very strained. - Yeah. 192 00:09:46,896 --> 00:09:49,551 They have since moved out and I don't know. 193 00:09:49,586 --> 00:09:52,172 I... Kody and I've had some conversations recently 194 00:09:52,206 --> 00:09:54,724 about, "What are you going to do? What are we going to do?" 195 00:09:54,758 --> 00:09:58,068 Because several of his children are at odds with him 196 00:09:58,103 --> 00:10:01,758 because of the way that his COVID rules went down. 197 00:10:01,793 --> 00:10:03,482 And moving forward, what do you want to see 198 00:10:03,517 --> 00:10:06,034 in your relationships with all of your children, including Gabe and Garrison? 199 00:10:06,068 --> 00:10:10,724 Oh, shoot. I... You know, why do we buy so much acreage on Coyote Pass? 200 00:10:10,758 --> 00:10:12,758 Because we hope our children will come back. 201 00:10:12,793 --> 00:10:16,724 - So that is your intention? - Yeah, I want my kids around me. I love them. 202 00:10:18,241 --> 00:10:20,793 But the sad thing is what I've realized 203 00:10:20,827 --> 00:10:23,034 is the lack of respect they have for me. 204 00:10:23,068 --> 00:10:26,551 They want my company, but I struggle with the lack 205 00:10:26,586 --> 00:10:28,103 of respect they have for my leadership. 206 00:10:29,172 --> 00:10:30,689 [Sukanya] Coming up... 207 00:10:30,724 --> 00:10:33,448 I'm actually wondering what it'd be like to have Thanksgiving without them. 208 00:10:33,482 --> 00:10:39,000 And I'm giving this [bleep] eating grin out of sarcasm, out of hurt, out of anger. 209 00:10:39,034 --> 00:10:41,379 You've been asking for this. I've been asking for this. 210 00:10:41,413 --> 00:10:44,517 It... To me, that just doesn't make sense. 211 00:10:44,551 --> 00:10:45,620 [Sukanya] And later... 212 00:10:45,655 --> 00:10:49,482 I love Christine and I have always wanted 213 00:10:49,517 --> 00:10:52,241 her and Kody's relationship to be strong. Always. 214 00:11:01,413 --> 00:11:04,310 - [Sukanya] Here we go. - [man] Okay. 215 00:11:04,344 --> 00:11:06,068 God, I'm in too damn good of a mood. 216 00:11:06,103 --> 00:11:07,931 I'm kind of going to ask you a lot of questions. 217 00:11:07,965 --> 00:11:09,758 - Yeah, today it's coming. I know. - Yeah, it's coming. 218 00:11:11,068 --> 00:11:13,896 [man] In five, four, three... 219 00:11:13,931 --> 00:11:17,068 So let's talk about Thanksgiving meeting. 220 00:11:17,103 --> 00:11:20,724 That was a... That was sort of a tough moment for the family 221 00:11:20,758 --> 00:11:22,517 because in this clip, you're deciding 222 00:11:22,551 --> 00:11:24,206 where they're gonna spend Thanksgiving. 223 00:11:24,241 --> 00:11:28,827 And I think Kody, this was a moment I, as a viewer, really felt for you 224 00:11:28,862 --> 00:11:31,793 because I think you were really surprised. 225 00:11:31,827 --> 00:11:34,586 I wasn't surprised because they'd been choosing it all along. 226 00:11:34,620 --> 00:11:37,275 - Okay. - But in the beginning, I could tell I was... 227 00:11:37,310 --> 00:11:40,620 - I was in the meeting with a defensive nature. - Okay. 228 00:11:42,172 --> 00:11:45,172 - Take a look at their tone and then we'll talk. - Mmm. 229 00:11:45,206 --> 00:11:49,103 Well, on that note, ladies. We're here because of holidays. 230 00:11:49,137 --> 00:11:51,620 [Christine] We are going to Aspyn and Mitch's for Thanksgiving, 231 00:11:51,655 --> 00:11:53,310 but we will be here for Christmas. 232 00:11:55,103 --> 00:11:57,724 - So you're going to Utah? - [Janelle] I think so, yeah. 233 00:11:57,758 --> 00:11:59,413 - And you're going to Utah? - [Christine] Yes. 234 00:11:59,448 --> 00:12:01,655 [Kody] I'm sitting here with everybody sort of complaining to me 235 00:12:01,689 --> 00:12:04,206 about the rules and about we're not getting together. 236 00:12:04,241 --> 00:12:06,241 And I say, "Well, let's go ahead and do 237 00:12:06,275 --> 00:12:09,724 what we need to do to get back together." And everybody resists that. 238 00:12:09,758 --> 00:12:12,620 You think I'm going off and I'm just gonna not wear a mask 239 00:12:12,655 --> 00:12:14,379 - and not do other things. - No, nope, nope. 240 00:12:14,413 --> 00:12:16,482 - I'm not making accusations. - [scoffs] 241 00:12:16,517 --> 00:12:19,206 He acts like I'm not doing anything. 242 00:12:19,241 --> 00:12:21,379 I hope everybody enjoys their Thanksgiving. 243 00:12:28,448 --> 00:12:29,931 Yeah [bleep] off. 244 00:12:35,931 --> 00:12:39,793 Well, how did it feel when Christine and Janelle chose Utah and their kids 245 00:12:39,827 --> 00:12:41,827 over you and the larger family? 246 00:12:44,206 --> 00:12:47,103 [sighs] I was just like... 247 00:12:49,586 --> 00:12:52,827 I don't know. That [bleep] eating grin. I don't know. 248 00:12:52,862 --> 00:12:55,379 I don't know what I felt. In that moment. I was like, 249 00:12:55,413 --> 00:12:58,172 "Okay, well, we'll see you guys later," 250 00:12:58,206 --> 00:13:00,655 - Were you surprised at... Yeah. - Kody being snarky? 251 00:13:00,689 --> 00:13:03,034 - No, I think Kody was heartbroken. He was sad. - He was heartbroken. 252 00:13:03,068 --> 00:13:06,172 I think Kody was sad that it wasn't coming together 253 00:13:06,206 --> 00:13:08,206 like he was hoping and he was wanting 254 00:13:08,241 --> 00:13:10,206 'cause he did give us the rules for us to follow. 255 00:13:10,241 --> 00:13:12,379 So I'm sure he's super frustrated. 256 00:13:12,413 --> 00:13:14,275 - 'Cause we now have the rules. - Right. 257 00:13:15,068 --> 00:13:17,000 How did you feel? 258 00:13:17,034 --> 00:13:20,551 I was frustrated that for the same reason 259 00:13:20,586 --> 00:13:25,000 and maybe this is me just putting my feelings on Kody. 260 00:13:25,034 --> 00:13:28,793 But like, I can only imagine he was frustrated. 261 00:13:28,827 --> 00:13:32,068 You know, like, "You've been asking for this. I've been asking for this. 262 00:13:32,103 --> 00:13:35,655 Here we are. We have the blueprint of what to do, 263 00:13:35,689 --> 00:13:39,137 - and it's too difficult, so we're not going to do it." - Mmm. 264 00:13:39,172 --> 00:13:41,482 It... To me, that just doesn't make sense. 265 00:13:41,517 --> 00:13:44,172 But you've been saying you wanted the whole family to get together 266 00:13:44,206 --> 00:13:46,517 and that Kody put out these rules so we can all comply. 267 00:13:46,551 --> 00:13:51,103 And then Kody does this and then it doesn't really kind of shape up the way... 268 00:13:51,137 --> 00:13:53,103 Yeah, he put them out like ten days or so, 269 00:13:53,137 --> 00:13:55,620 maybe three... Two weeks before. 270 00:13:55,655 --> 00:13:59,724 And my boys, they were like, "Mom, we can't do this." 271 00:13:59,758 --> 00:14:02,413 Well, Janelle keeps repeating, "I'm doing this. I'm wearing a mask. 272 00:14:02,448 --> 00:14:05,758 I'm doing these things." Well, your boys aren't. 273 00:14:05,793 --> 00:14:07,724 But you see her walk away 274 00:14:07,758 --> 00:14:10,551 - and you see her really angry at you. - Yeah, she's angry. Yeah. 275 00:14:10,586 --> 00:14:13,206 - But you let her walk away. - Well what was I gonna do? 276 00:14:13,241 --> 00:14:15,620 I don't know. As a husband, run after her. 277 00:14:15,655 --> 00:14:18,275 - No! No! - Look at her and say, "I need you." 278 00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:20,379 Listen this is seven months into this. 279 00:14:20,413 --> 00:14:23,862 Yeah, but was it your ego stopping you? What was stopping you? 280 00:14:23,896 --> 00:14:27,206 Because there's no loyalty. 281 00:14:27,241 --> 00:14:31,344 Because I've already gone through this whole thing and not been supported. 282 00:14:32,551 --> 00:14:36,344 But how long can you be betrayed in a situation 283 00:14:36,379 --> 00:14:40,965 where you... There is a refusal 284 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,586 to either communicate, to understand or to partner. 285 00:14:47,068 --> 00:14:50,068 So are you saying your wives are not loyal to you? 286 00:14:51,206 --> 00:14:53,517 - You judge, okay? - I'm not judging. 287 00:14:53,551 --> 00:14:55,310 There is so much water under the bridge 288 00:14:55,344 --> 00:14:58,241 that I'm not reaching out to them. I'm like actually relieved 289 00:14:58,275 --> 00:15:03,862 and I'm giving this [bleep] eating grin out of sarcasm, out of hurt, out of anger. 290 00:15:03,896 --> 00:15:06,965 But I'm actually wondering what it'd be like to have a Thanksgiving without them. 291 00:15:08,241 --> 00:15:12,206 You choose your family, Janelle chose her family, 292 00:15:12,241 --> 00:15:15,827 but Robin was really upset that you guys didn't choose the larger family. 293 00:15:15,862 --> 00:15:20,000 I know, but I can't always make everybody happy. 294 00:15:20,034 --> 00:15:22,482 For me, it's the fact that I have older kids 295 00:15:22,517 --> 00:15:25,965 and then it's also that Kody and I struggle. [groans] Not fun. 296 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,310 I think if I had older kids, but Kody and I were fine, 297 00:15:30,344 --> 00:15:33,241 and we were great and stuff and had a really great functioning marriage, 298 00:15:33,275 --> 00:15:35,413 - then I think we could make it work. - Mmm-hmm. 299 00:15:35,448 --> 00:15:37,137 So it seems sometimes I look back and I'm like, 300 00:15:37,172 --> 00:15:39,344 "Oh, that was a little bit of a callous decision," 301 00:15:39,379 --> 00:15:41,586 as far as the big family goes. 302 00:15:41,620 --> 00:15:43,862 And I thought about that a lot. You know, am I doing something 303 00:15:43,896 --> 00:15:45,793 that's jeopardizing the whole family? 304 00:15:45,827 --> 00:15:48,310 And I kept weighing it. You know, I've got kids at home 305 00:15:48,344 --> 00:15:51,551 and I need to make sure that they are secure and solid, 306 00:15:51,586 --> 00:15:54,448 and I've got other kids that needs to see me. 307 00:15:54,482 --> 00:15:57,310 All I can do is have a clear conscience at the end of the day. 308 00:15:57,344 --> 00:15:59,413 And you validate what she said? 309 00:16:00,344 --> 00:16:02,482 Well, I can validate it. 310 00:16:02,517 --> 00:16:07,482 But in COVID, everybody has to make sacrifices, right? 311 00:16:07,517 --> 00:16:12,000 Listen, I feel like they've been the biggest jack wagons about what's been going on. 312 00:16:12,034 --> 00:16:16,655 Janelle was literally um, passive with the boys. 313 00:16:16,689 --> 00:16:21,034 You know, Christine was not passive. She was actually um... 314 00:16:21,068 --> 00:16:24,827 She was actually moving out. Like, "I'm going and I'm gonna go and do this 315 00:16:24,862 --> 00:16:28,620 and our relationship be damned." 316 00:16:28,655 --> 00:16:31,137 - And then, Thanksgiving happens that way-- - Mmm-hmm. 317 00:16:31,172 --> 00:16:34,379 And you see me through a combination of bitterness and... 318 00:16:35,448 --> 00:16:37,206 Just... They're just... 319 00:16:37,241 --> 00:16:40,482 I just know all these people in plural marriages and they're pushing through. 320 00:16:40,517 --> 00:16:41,965 - Mmm-hmm. - You know? 321 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,517 And so this whole COVID experience has had me wondering if this is it. 322 00:16:46,241 --> 00:16:47,551 [Sukanya] Coming up... 323 00:16:47,586 --> 00:16:50,275 - He's my best friend. - He is still your husband 324 00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:54,103 and the emotional intimacy and physical intimacy has to go hand-in-hand. 325 00:16:54,137 --> 00:16:57,103 I mean, you know, we're fine. So Kody and I are fine. 326 00:16:57,137 --> 00:16:59,758 I don't know if she needs Kody to fill her tank. 327 00:16:59,793 --> 00:17:01,413 I think she fills her own damn tank. 328 00:17:01,448 --> 00:17:04,275 - Are you in love with Janelle? - I love Janelle. 329 00:17:05,068 --> 00:17:06,413 Are you in love with Janelle? 330 00:17:14,344 --> 00:17:15,310 [indistinct conversation] 331 00:17:21,586 --> 00:17:23,862 It feels like you've been in a pressure cooker for a little bit. 332 00:17:23,896 --> 00:17:26,689 Yeah, 'cause I'm trying and trying and trying and trying and trying. 333 00:17:26,724 --> 00:17:30,896 Yep, I think so too. I really want everything to work so badly. 334 00:17:30,931 --> 00:17:34,034 The one thing that has worked is your relationship with Janelle. 335 00:17:34,068 --> 00:17:36,068 It seems like you two just get each other. 336 00:17:36,103 --> 00:17:39,379 Um, let's show this clip and it's just a beautiful bond 337 00:17:39,413 --> 00:17:40,931 - that you guys have together. - Okay. 338 00:17:42,413 --> 00:17:47,379 There's a really special something for me with my kids about Christine. 339 00:17:47,413 --> 00:17:50,310 She was their primary parental figure at home 340 00:17:50,344 --> 00:17:52,103 for so many years while I worked. 341 00:17:52,965 --> 00:17:55,413 So they are really attached to her. 342 00:17:55,448 --> 00:17:58,172 Just like since the beginning, you've been such a big part of their lives. 343 00:17:58,206 --> 00:18:01,862 My kids, like, they kind of are in orbit around you 344 00:18:01,896 --> 00:18:03,344 as much as they are in orbit around me. 345 00:18:03,379 --> 00:18:06,137 - It's kind of fun, right? It's super, super fun. - Yeah. 346 00:18:06,172 --> 00:18:08,689 [Christine] There's a bit of choosing sides. 347 00:18:08,724 --> 00:18:12,206 I just got to choose. It came down to choosing between Janelle and Kody 348 00:18:12,241 --> 00:18:15,689 and I chose Janelle sometimes. 349 00:18:16,689 --> 00:18:19,241 Christine as far as our family goes, 350 00:18:19,275 --> 00:18:22,379 not as a dis to any of the other moms, is our primary care giver. 351 00:18:22,413 --> 00:18:25,931 - What do you mean? - From our youngest age, 352 00:18:25,965 --> 00:18:29,793 Christine has been the one to provide for seven kids at a time all the time. 353 00:18:29,827 --> 00:18:34,068 Some of the family has come together in a little clique 354 00:18:34,103 --> 00:18:37,206 that has literally excluded some of the other family members. 355 00:18:37,241 --> 00:18:41,206 Like the cliquiness, the bullying, the exclusion and stuff like that. 356 00:18:41,241 --> 00:18:43,724 Gabriel sees it one way, I see it negatively. 357 00:18:45,448 --> 00:18:48,862 - The cliquiness, the bullying. - What's a clique? I know, bullying too? 358 00:18:48,896 --> 00:18:50,413 - Yeah. - [inhales] 359 00:18:50,448 --> 00:18:52,862 - So what is Kody seeing-- - [groans] 360 00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:56,172 - that you're shaking your head to? - Maybe he doesn't see 361 00:18:56,206 --> 00:18:59,379 how close I am to Janelle's kids? He's got to see that. 362 00:18:59,413 --> 00:19:02,620 - Um... I know. - But he considers you and Janelle a clique. 363 00:19:02,655 --> 00:19:04,655 - Well... - Are you a clique? 364 00:19:06,931 --> 00:19:11,413 I'm not trying to be. Janelle's super easy. Janelle's really easy. 365 00:19:11,448 --> 00:19:13,344 She's lovely to get along with. 366 00:19:13,379 --> 00:19:15,586 We kind of just get each other after of these years. 367 00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:19,344 I... It's so easy... His negativity is kind of making me crazy. 368 00:19:19,379 --> 00:19:22,793 Yeah, Christine says, "It's like people are choosing sides right now," 369 00:19:22,827 --> 00:19:24,586 Do you feel you were choosing sides? 370 00:19:24,620 --> 00:19:26,482 I didn't really feel like I was choosing sides. 371 00:19:26,517 --> 00:19:33,482 I was going where it felt like we were wanted in a way. 372 00:19:33,517 --> 00:19:36,827 Like, that we would be okay. We weren't excluding anybody. 373 00:19:36,862 --> 00:19:41,448 They could have come over, but we weren't COVID compliant enough for them. 374 00:19:41,482 --> 00:19:43,724 How has Christine, when Christine joined the marriage, 375 00:19:43,758 --> 00:19:47,931 how did that change the dynamics within your family structure? 376 00:19:47,965 --> 00:19:49,275 You have to know Christine married Kody 377 00:19:49,310 --> 00:19:51,965 - one year after I was married to Kody. - Oh, wow. 378 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,068 So we'd been married a year. And it was a huge blessing. 379 00:19:55,103 --> 00:19:58,793 - Because she was able to kind of buffer. - Yeah. 380 00:19:58,827 --> 00:20:02,448 Um, there was no longer this me, you thing. 381 00:20:02,482 --> 00:20:06,689 Is that when your real friendship together started? 382 00:20:06,724 --> 00:20:08,241 - Christine and I? - Yeah. 383 00:20:08,275 --> 00:20:10,068 No, I thought she was a princess in the beginning. We hated each other. 384 00:20:10,103 --> 00:20:12,000 - Really? [laughing] - Well, not hated. 385 00:20:12,034 --> 00:20:14,827 - I mean, hate now has this idea of the cat fights-- - Yeah, yeah. No, no. 386 00:20:14,862 --> 00:20:16,241 That's what's on TV. No, it wasn't that. 387 00:20:16,275 --> 00:20:18,172 But when you say she was a princess, what does that mean? 388 00:20:18,206 --> 00:20:21,000 I thought she was a princess. Like, I just thought she was like, I don't know. 389 00:20:21,034 --> 00:20:22,827 I just thought she was a princess. 390 00:20:22,862 --> 00:20:25,137 I was just thinking, do you think Kody might be jealous 391 00:20:25,172 --> 00:20:27,931 because you guys are choosing each other over him? 392 00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:34,068 If Kody's jealous [laughing] 393 00:20:34,103 --> 00:20:36,862 - Why are you laughing? - Sorry. I mean, for years I've been jealous. 394 00:20:36,896 --> 00:20:38,379 It's plural marriage, for goodness sakes. 395 00:20:38,413 --> 00:20:42,758 And for years, you know, jealousy is a real thing that we have all the time. 396 00:20:42,793 --> 00:20:47,344 That'd be kind of ironic right if Kody was jealous of Janelle and my relationship. Sorry. 397 00:20:47,379 --> 00:20:49,896 - It could be because you have an intimacy. - I mean, I don't know. 398 00:20:49,931 --> 00:20:53,034 - You understand each other. You get each other. - I know, more than I get Kody. 399 00:20:53,068 --> 00:20:57,758 He's really confusing and he's really so hard to get along with sometimes. 400 00:20:57,793 --> 00:21:00,551 And oh, my gosh, his COVID stuff was so firm 401 00:21:00,586 --> 00:21:02,689 and I'm like, "Oh my gosh. Who is this?" 402 00:21:02,724 --> 00:21:06,344 Who is this person that I'm talking to? You're really aggressive 403 00:21:06,379 --> 00:21:09,448 and I don't even know what do with you." I mean, maybe. 404 00:21:11,206 --> 00:21:14,655 - He did admit to being angry. - I know. He was. Of course he was hurt 405 00:21:14,689 --> 00:21:16,586 we weren't choosing the whole family, 406 00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:20,896 but I couldn't choose the whole family all the time. I couldn't. 407 00:21:20,931 --> 00:21:22,620 Can I ask you a question about Janelle 408 00:21:22,655 --> 00:21:25,034 - and her relationship with Kody? - Yeah. 409 00:21:25,068 --> 00:21:28,517 You know. It seems like there are some parallels here too. 410 00:21:28,551 --> 00:21:30,206 - You know? - I hope not. 411 00:21:30,241 --> 00:21:31,965 Between mine and Kody's relationship and hers and-- 412 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,137 No, like parallels of just maybe sometimes unhappiness. 413 00:21:35,172 --> 00:21:38,137 Because you know, the kids are growing up. Things are changing. 414 00:21:38,172 --> 00:21:41,655 The dynamic of her relationship with Kody is changing. 415 00:21:41,689 --> 00:21:44,689 Do you think she's happy with Kody? 416 00:21:44,724 --> 00:21:50,448 I think that... I asked her, I'm like, when we were on vacation together. 417 00:21:50,482 --> 00:21:54,241 - Yeah, why not? - I'm like, "So, what does it look like with you and Kody? 418 00:21:54,275 --> 00:21:56,862 Are you fine? Are you gonna stay? 'Cause there's been a lot of stuff." 419 00:21:56,896 --> 00:21:59,793 And she goes, "I've always thought Kody was a great dad. 420 00:21:59,827 --> 00:22:01,793 I've always thought he was a great dad. 421 00:22:01,827 --> 00:22:05,896 And I know that he is still a great dad. 422 00:22:05,931 --> 00:22:07,862 We have things to work out and things like that." 423 00:22:07,896 --> 00:22:10,724 She goes, "But I'm not planning on leaving. I'm gonna stay." 424 00:22:10,758 --> 00:22:15,275 What is it about Janelle that helps you be in sync with her? 425 00:22:15,310 --> 00:22:19,965 Um, we're not in sync. We don't partner really well. 426 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,862 But we actually just are able to have a marriage 427 00:22:23,896 --> 00:22:26,413 that's, if you will, lower in attachment. 428 00:22:26,448 --> 00:22:28,344 I don't even know. I mean we're... 429 00:22:28,379 --> 00:22:30,758 We're good friends. We get along well. 430 00:22:30,793 --> 00:22:34,000 And it's more of a, like just a committed relationship. 431 00:22:34,034 --> 00:22:36,206 - Are you in love with Janelle? - I love Janelle. 432 00:22:37,172 --> 00:22:38,344 Are you in love with Janelle? 433 00:22:39,896 --> 00:22:42,068 Janelle wouldn't tell you she was in that place with me 434 00:22:42,103 --> 00:22:43,827 either if she was being honest. 435 00:22:43,862 --> 00:22:47,793 Look, we have a long term relationship. We've been together almost 30 years. 436 00:22:47,827 --> 00:22:50,655 - He's my best friend. - He is still your husband 437 00:22:50,689 --> 00:22:54,344 and the emotional intimacy and physical intimacy has to go hand-in-hand. 438 00:22:54,379 --> 00:22:57,413 - Yep. We're fine. - Does... Is that something that you are all working on? 439 00:22:57,448 --> 00:22:59,137 Yeah, we're fine. We're fine. 440 00:22:59,172 --> 00:23:02,206 - You're working on that? - Yeah, I mean, you know. We're fine. 441 00:23:02,241 --> 00:23:04,103 - So Kody and I are fine. - [Sukanya laughing] 442 00:23:04,137 --> 00:23:06,241 I'm... I'm not going to share too much, but we're fine. 443 00:23:08,103 --> 00:23:11,344 And that's why I wanted to ask if Kody filled her tank. 444 00:23:11,379 --> 00:23:14,448 I don't know if she needs Kody to fill her tank. 445 00:23:14,482 --> 00:23:16,103 I don't know if she needs that. 446 00:23:16,137 --> 00:23:19,482 What she needs from Kody is very different than what I ever needed from Kody. 447 00:23:19,517 --> 00:23:22,793 I think Janelle's like, a wicked awesome, strong woman 448 00:23:22,827 --> 00:23:24,482 and I think she fills her own damn tank. 449 00:23:24,517 --> 00:23:27,482 Oh, sorry. I think she fills her own tank. I just think she does. 450 00:23:28,103 --> 00:23:29,620 [Sukanya] Coming up... 451 00:23:29,655 --> 00:23:31,827 But why didn't you speak up and say, "I don't want to be a basement wife." 452 00:23:31,862 --> 00:23:34,413 - Especially coming from a-- - 'Cause I didn't even know about basement wives. 453 00:23:34,448 --> 00:23:37,206 - She would complain maybe to Kody. - Yeah. 454 00:23:37,241 --> 00:23:38,758 But she never said anything. 455 00:23:38,793 --> 00:23:42,310 When you come in my family, this is a requirement that I have. 456 00:23:42,344 --> 00:23:44,137 We are going to be one family. 457 00:23:44,172 --> 00:23:47,275 That was like living in a fresh hell with Meri and Janelle. 458 00:23:56,068 --> 00:23:58,413 - It's not easy, but-- - It was not easy 459 00:23:58,448 --> 00:24:00,758 - [man 1] We all have eyes? - [man 2] Got it. 460 00:24:00,793 --> 00:24:02,931 [man 1] Okay, marker. 461 00:24:02,965 --> 00:24:07,241 [man 2] Okay, we are rolling and continue anytime. 462 00:24:07,275 --> 00:24:10,137 The other heartbreaking thing that I saw this season 463 00:24:10,172 --> 00:24:13,413 was when you were talking about head wife and basement wife. 464 00:24:13,448 --> 00:24:16,620 - Oh, yep. Mmm-hmm. With Robin. That conversation. Yeah. - With Robin. 465 00:24:16,655 --> 00:24:18,586 You had never mentioned it before. 466 00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:20,965 And I think this was a moment the viewers caught a glimpse 467 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,931 of Christine being authentically true to her pain within this larger family. 468 00:24:27,896 --> 00:24:29,793 The one house was so hard. 469 00:24:29,827 --> 00:24:33,068 I never felt like I was queen wife or queen mom. Never. 470 00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:36,241 Everybody's needs came before mine. 471 00:24:36,275 --> 00:24:39,724 And everybody's... All the kids' needs came before my kids too. 472 00:24:39,758 --> 00:24:44,862 In the plural community, there's certainly a basement wife mentality. 473 00:24:44,896 --> 00:24:47,862 If you have a situation where there's a wife that's the queen bee, 474 00:24:47,896 --> 00:24:50,103 well, the other wife goes in the basement 475 00:24:50,137 --> 00:24:52,344 and she doesn't matter as much. 476 00:24:52,379 --> 00:24:56,137 And I've seen it enough. I've seen it a lot. 477 00:24:56,172 --> 00:24:59,931 I put myself in the basement and became a basement wife. 478 00:24:59,965 --> 00:25:03,482 And I just feel like I stopped having a choice 479 00:25:03,517 --> 00:25:05,482 and I didn't really matter as much. 480 00:25:07,172 --> 00:25:10,034 - Okay, a lot to unpack there. - Yep. [clears throat] Yeah. 481 00:25:10,068 --> 00:25:13,137 But why didn't you speak up and say, "I don't want to be a basement wife." 482 00:25:13,172 --> 00:25:15,034 - Especially coming from a-- - 'Cause I didn't even know... 483 00:25:15,068 --> 00:25:17,827 I didn't know at that time about basement wives. 484 00:25:17,862 --> 00:25:20,896 I didn't know that it was anything. I had no idea. 485 00:25:20,931 --> 00:25:23,655 - I chose to just let it happen. - But the dynamic... Yeah. 486 00:25:23,689 --> 00:25:26,103 And I chose to be weaker. I just did. 487 00:25:26,137 --> 00:25:29,137 So, every single day of my life, I wake up and I have a choice to make 488 00:25:29,172 --> 00:25:30,724 - if I'm in a situation like that. - Okay. 489 00:25:30,758 --> 00:25:35,310 And in the end, I would love to just be strong and be like, "No, no, no, no." 490 00:25:35,344 --> 00:25:37,896 And just cause more contention, more contention, more contention. 491 00:25:37,931 --> 00:25:40,551 Or I can just go, "Okay, okay. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine." 492 00:25:40,586 --> 00:25:43,172 And make it easier, but then in the end, I lose myself. 493 00:25:43,206 --> 00:25:45,482 - Yeah, I was gonna say, The cost is you. - Yeah, the cost is me. 494 00:25:45,517 --> 00:25:47,655 - The price you pay is losing you. - Yep. 495 00:25:47,689 --> 00:25:52,172 I put everybody first most of the time. 496 00:25:52,206 --> 00:25:55,413 I put whatever Kody needed. It's like, "I can be the peacemaker here. 497 00:25:55,448 --> 00:25:57,758 What do you need? What does Janelle need? 498 00:25:57,793 --> 00:25:59,862 What does Meri need? What do all the kids need?" 499 00:25:59,896 --> 00:26:02,241 It left me running on empty and I asked him for help. 500 00:26:02,275 --> 00:26:04,241 I'm like, "I can't do this anymore." 501 00:26:04,275 --> 00:26:06,620 He's like, "You're just changing all the agreements and everything." 502 00:26:06,655 --> 00:26:09,034 And I said, "I'm overwhelmed." 503 00:26:09,068 --> 00:26:11,551 - And he... He couldn't help. - What were the agreements? 504 00:26:11,586 --> 00:26:13,931 Like family came first. All the time. 100% of the time. 505 00:26:13,965 --> 00:26:18,034 So you were the... The caregiver. You were the organizer. 506 00:26:18,068 --> 00:26:20,310 - Yes, yes. - You were the... 507 00:26:20,344 --> 00:26:21,793 I know that feels uncomfortable for you to hear. 508 00:26:21,827 --> 00:26:23,310 It is... It is uncomfortable. 509 00:26:23,344 --> 00:26:25,379 But I mean, Janelle was very, very, very forthcoming 510 00:26:25,413 --> 00:26:28,068 in saying that you were the one that took care of her kids. 511 00:26:28,103 --> 00:26:29,758 Yes, I was their constant. There we go. 512 00:26:29,793 --> 00:26:32,758 Can we just say, what I like, the term that is just more comfortable? 513 00:26:32,793 --> 00:26:36,000 - [Sukanya] Okay. - I was just the constant. 514 00:26:36,034 --> 00:26:38,103 There had to be some sort of hierarchy, right? 515 00:26:38,137 --> 00:26:39,896 - You know? - Mmm-mmm. There's not usually. 516 00:26:39,931 --> 00:26:41,068 - [Sukanya] No? - No. 517 00:26:41,103 --> 00:26:42,344 Not in our families. 518 00:26:42,379 --> 00:26:44,103 Not in our family. 519 00:26:44,137 --> 00:26:50,103 But then, how could she feel so alone if there is no hierarchy, you know? 520 00:26:50,137 --> 00:26:51,827 - See, I don't-- Yeah. - When you feel castigated-- 521 00:26:51,862 --> 00:26:53,689 - Yeah. - ...and put in the basement, right? 522 00:26:53,724 --> 00:26:56,931 I feel like she's calling that experience with her perspective now. 523 00:26:57,689 --> 00:26:59,103 I mean, I feel like-- 524 00:26:59,137 --> 00:27:03,241 So you can't validate that... That she did experience-- 525 00:27:03,275 --> 00:27:05,379 - I mean, I'm not saying she didn't. - [Sukanya] Right. 526 00:27:05,413 --> 00:27:07,275 She never said anything. 527 00:27:07,310 --> 00:27:09,310 She would complain maybe to Kody. 528 00:27:09,344 --> 00:27:11,724 - [Sukanya] Yeah. - But she never said anything. 529 00:27:11,758 --> 00:27:15,862 I was surprised at Christine talking about being a basement wife. 530 00:27:15,896 --> 00:27:18,241 I... I didn't know she felt that way. 531 00:27:18,275 --> 00:27:22,931 And I felt like, Janelle and maybe even Meri, weren't like... 532 00:27:22,965 --> 00:27:24,482 They were like, "Well, we'll just deal 533 00:27:24,517 --> 00:27:26,517 with the dysfunction or the things that don't work." 534 00:27:26,551 --> 00:27:30,793 - And Christine was just like, "Oh, I'm not gonna do it." - [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm. 535 00:27:30,827 --> 00:27:35,000 But I know that it... It, I think, unraveled it for Kody. 536 00:27:35,034 --> 00:27:38,586 You know, this memory of the past with the family, 537 00:27:38,620 --> 00:27:41,413 of this, like, happy time in his head, 538 00:27:41,448 --> 00:27:45,689 was so hard for Christine. 539 00:27:45,724 --> 00:27:51,758 And he started losing his sight of, like, the big picture 540 00:27:51,793 --> 00:27:53,310 - that we talk about. - Yeah. 541 00:27:53,344 --> 00:27:55,275 We don't operate separately, you know. 542 00:27:55,758 --> 00:27:57,206 We are one family. 543 00:27:57,241 --> 00:27:58,793 Listen, I'm carrying this load. 544 00:27:58,827 --> 00:28:00,931 And I've done it all these years. 545 00:28:00,965 --> 00:28:04,586 When you come in my family, this is a requirement that I have. 546 00:28:04,620 --> 00:28:07,655 - Mmm-hmm. - You know, is that we're going to be one family. 547 00:28:07,689 --> 00:28:10,965 That was like living in a fresh hell with Meri and Janelle. 548 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,379 And Christine lightened that burden. 549 00:28:13,413 --> 00:28:16,000 For about 10 years, she lightened that burden. 550 00:28:16,034 --> 00:28:17,620 - And it was a beautiful experience. - Yeah. 551 00:28:17,655 --> 00:28:20,689 But then, Christine went, "Wait, uh..." 552 00:28:20,724 --> 00:28:22,620 Christine shrugged. 553 00:28:22,655 --> 00:28:24,793 She's like, "I don't like being in this role." 554 00:28:26,034 --> 00:28:28,068 And then, Robyn came into the family. 555 00:28:28,103 --> 00:28:32,689 And the... What Christine had shrugged what Robyn was picking up. 556 00:28:34,586 --> 00:28:38,931 It has been a lot of years of me sort of, and my kids sort of going, you know, 557 00:28:38,965 --> 00:28:40,000 "Please, can we be accepted." 558 00:28:40,034 --> 00:28:45,379 And struggling to feel fully there. 559 00:28:45,413 --> 00:28:49,206 For whatever reason, there's that struggle with Janelle and Christine. 560 00:28:49,241 --> 00:28:52,172 And then, there's also a struggle with some of their kids. 561 00:28:52,862 --> 00:28:53,931 How... How did that feel? 562 00:28:54,931 --> 00:28:57,862 Um, it's been really, really tough for me. 563 00:29:00,586 --> 00:29:02,310 Yeah, it's been really hard. 564 00:29:04,206 --> 00:29:06,689 It's been really, um, painful. 565 00:29:09,620 --> 00:29:11,896 And that leads me to my next conversation with you, 566 00:29:11,931 --> 00:29:14,482 which is just joining a family that was already 567 00:29:14,517 --> 00:29:17,103 kind of functioning or not functioning. 568 00:29:17,137 --> 00:29:19,275 - So we want to take a look at this clip. - Okay. 569 00:29:20,620 --> 00:29:25,000 I've had one of the kids call me and ask me, 570 00:29:25,034 --> 00:29:29,793 "Can't we just relax the rules about COVID?" 571 00:29:29,827 --> 00:29:32,034 You know, you gotta blame somebody so... 572 00:29:33,482 --> 00:29:34,862 [clicks tongue] I'm an easy target. 573 00:29:34,896 --> 00:29:37,000 But I didn't sign up for monogamy. 574 00:29:37,793 --> 00:29:39,758 I... It... It's just... Ah, gosh. 575 00:29:39,793 --> 00:29:41,275 I'm so tired of this. 576 00:29:41,310 --> 00:29:43,068 I... I've been doing it for years. 577 00:29:43,103 --> 00:29:47,103 From day one, sitting here, begging to be a part of this family. 578 00:29:47,137 --> 00:29:48,724 And I'm tired of being questioned. 579 00:29:48,758 --> 00:29:50,551 I'm just tired of it. 580 00:29:50,586 --> 00:29:55,931 I need to let my kids know that, um, we're not all gonna be together for Thanksgiving. 581 00:30:04,793 --> 00:30:07,827 [Robyn] I don't want them to feel sad and rejected. 582 00:30:07,862 --> 00:30:09,931 But I don't know how they couldn't. 583 00:30:09,965 --> 00:30:12,172 That's how I feel. [laughs] 584 00:30:12,206 --> 00:30:15,068 You know, and I'm trying to be big about it and, 585 00:30:15,103 --> 00:30:19,103 uh, you know, kind of mature about it but it's hard for me, too. 586 00:30:23,103 --> 00:30:24,068 [Robyn clears throat] 587 00:30:24,965 --> 00:30:26,241 It's hard to watch, right? 588 00:30:26,275 --> 00:30:27,379 Mmm-hmm. 589 00:30:29,310 --> 00:30:31,206 Yeah. 590 00:30:31,241 --> 00:30:35,758 My littlest doesn't remember the names of her siblings. 591 00:30:37,275 --> 00:30:39,517 Because it's... We're just not seeing each other. 592 00:30:40,517 --> 00:30:41,793 And... 593 00:30:43,827 --> 00:30:46,724 My older kids, they're... They don't know what to do 594 00:30:46,758 --> 00:30:49,310 with the decisions that have been made. 595 00:30:49,344 --> 00:30:51,241 They... They don't know how to compute it. 596 00:30:53,379 --> 00:30:55,931 They're like, this is our family. 597 00:30:55,965 --> 00:30:58,517 You know, why are we choosing not to be together? 598 00:30:59,034 --> 00:31:00,758 Yeah. 599 00:31:00,793 --> 00:31:04,551 I also saw you in that clip saying, you know, "I'm the easy target." 600 00:31:06,137 --> 00:31:07,896 Do you feel like you're an easy target? 601 00:31:07,931 --> 00:31:09,448 Oh, yeah. Definitely. 602 00:31:10,862 --> 00:31:11,862 Why? 603 00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:15,931 I get along with Kody. [chuckles] 604 00:31:15,965 --> 00:31:18,413 She came into this family, cap in hand, 605 00:31:18,448 --> 00:31:21,827 um, telling her children very specifically, 606 00:31:21,862 --> 00:31:26,517 "You will accept this family and you'll treat these other women as mothers, 607 00:31:26,551 --> 00:31:30,310 and you will treat these other kids as siblings." 608 00:31:30,344 --> 00:31:35,517 And, uh, for some reason, the rules weren't required from the rest of the family 609 00:31:35,551 --> 00:31:40,000 to accept her the same way she was forced to accept us. 610 00:31:42,344 --> 00:31:45,551 Their marriage was done by our church officials. 611 00:31:45,586 --> 00:31:47,862 And they haven't granted them a divorce. 612 00:31:47,896 --> 00:31:50,862 For me to have someone else tell me whether or not my marriage is over, 613 00:31:50,896 --> 00:31:53,965 I'm like, no, I don't really need that. 614 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,931 But I... I'm curious about in your faith, 615 00:31:55,965 --> 00:31:57,758 she wouldn't go into the afterlife with you? 616 00:31:57,793 --> 00:31:59,793 You know what? You don't know the mind of God. 617 00:32:10,620 --> 00:32:15,862 Does it hurt when the other kids that call you kind of blame you? 618 00:32:15,896 --> 00:32:17,413 Oh, yeah. I hate it. 619 00:32:17,448 --> 00:32:18,655 It makes me angry. 620 00:32:20,103 --> 00:32:22,379 It's insulting and, um... 621 00:32:24,103 --> 00:32:29,275 Uh, 'cause what I consider what they're saying I'm doing, uh, I think it's... 622 00:32:29,310 --> 00:32:32,896 I think any time a wife is... 623 00:32:34,724 --> 00:32:36,000 In a plural family, 624 00:32:36,034 --> 00:32:39,793 is controlling a husband enough to affect other relationships, 625 00:32:39,827 --> 00:32:42,620 I think she's a bad person. 626 00:32:42,655 --> 00:32:45,931 It's just... I'm tired of it because it's been happening for years. 627 00:32:45,965 --> 00:32:48,620 - Mmm. - [Robyn] I would help any one of those kids 628 00:32:48,655 --> 00:32:51,379 have a conversation with their dad, try to make it safe for them. 629 00:32:51,413 --> 00:32:54,034 Mmm-hmm. But how about it being safe for you? 630 00:33:16,896 --> 00:33:18,103 Gosh. [sniffles] 631 00:33:21,655 --> 00:33:23,827 I don't think I've ever cried so much in an interview. 632 00:33:29,517 --> 00:33:32,620 I can't say that it's been like that all the time. 633 00:33:32,655 --> 00:33:37,655 But there's been a lot of unsafe spaces, yeah. 634 00:33:40,206 --> 00:33:41,551 I just want... 635 00:33:49,724 --> 00:33:51,689 I just want people to see me as who I am. 636 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,793 [clears throat] I want them to see that I love this family. 637 00:33:58,965 --> 00:34:00,793 - That I'm committed to them. - Mmm. 638 00:34:01,586 --> 00:34:02,965 That'd I do anything for them. 639 00:34:03,655 --> 00:34:04,896 That I love them. 640 00:34:05,896 --> 00:34:06,862 And... 641 00:34:08,034 --> 00:34:09,482 ...that I want the relationship. 642 00:34:14,965 --> 00:34:18,827 Kody's been very clear that sometimes the other sister wives 643 00:34:18,862 --> 00:34:21,931 haven't been so accepting of Robin and her kids. 644 00:34:21,965 --> 00:34:23,724 I think that at the beginning it was really hard. 645 00:34:23,758 --> 00:34:26,965 Blending families together is really difficult. 646 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,310 And there were a lot of frustrations on... 647 00:34:29,344 --> 00:34:32,137 - And hurt feelings on both sides of it. - [Sukanya] Mmm-mmm. 648 00:34:32,172 --> 00:34:34,310 I mean, we all came out of this scarred. 649 00:34:34,344 --> 00:34:35,931 All of us did. 650 00:34:35,965 --> 00:34:39,517 Uh, but, no, I never had any intention to alienate Robyn 651 00:34:39,551 --> 00:34:41,620 - or her kids, ever. - But why does he feel that way? 652 00:34:43,758 --> 00:34:45,275 And there's this sort of pecking order. 653 00:34:45,310 --> 00:34:48,034 It's this... Like, Meri was really hard on Janelle 654 00:34:48,068 --> 00:34:50,241 and then, Janelle and Meri were hard on Christine. 655 00:34:50,275 --> 00:34:54,103 And then, Janelle and Meri and Christine were hard on Robyn. 656 00:34:54,137 --> 00:34:56,586 And Robyn's like going, "Well, I didn't do this to you. 657 00:34:56,620 --> 00:34:58,586 I didn't do this. Why are you this way?" 658 00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:00,620 - Being mean to me. - And frankly, 659 00:35:00,655 --> 00:35:05,103 other than Meri, I'm not sure that the others would ever want to be her friend. 660 00:35:05,137 --> 00:35:09,103 You know, 'cause I had a conversation with Janelle recently were I said, 661 00:35:09,137 --> 00:35:11,689 "Well, hey, let's... Let's, um... 662 00:35:13,724 --> 00:35:15,655 Let's figure this out, you know. 663 00:35:15,689 --> 00:35:17,827 I want the good sister wife relationship. 664 00:35:17,862 --> 00:35:19,206 I know they exist." 665 00:35:19,241 --> 00:35:21,758 And she... She kind of said, 666 00:35:21,793 --> 00:35:24,448 "Well, you know, I... I'll have to think about that." 667 00:35:25,586 --> 00:35:28,551 Yep, there is some history there in the past that... 668 00:35:28,586 --> 00:35:31,620 - I... I mean, my desire's there. - [Sukanya] Yeah. 669 00:35:31,655 --> 00:35:35,000 But I'm kind of like, ugh, do I want to do this again? 670 00:35:35,034 --> 00:35:36,931 - Do you know what I mean? So... - [Sukanya] Yeah. 671 00:35:36,965 --> 00:35:38,344 But it's true, like, I felt like, 672 00:35:38,379 --> 00:35:40,034 um, in this particular conversation, 673 00:35:40,068 --> 00:35:42,206 I felt like I was kind of being put on the spot. 674 00:35:42,241 --> 00:35:44,034 [chuckles] And I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. 675 00:35:44,068 --> 00:35:45,103 - You know? - Yeah. 676 00:35:45,137 --> 00:35:46,241 But what do you want? 677 00:35:46,275 --> 00:35:47,620 - Do you want to have a relationship with her-- - I-- 678 00:35:47,655 --> 00:35:49,137 ...that's a little bit deeper? 679 00:35:49,172 --> 00:35:51,862 Maybe a... A relationship that you have with Christine? 680 00:35:52,655 --> 00:35:53,758 Yes, I think so. 681 00:35:53,793 --> 00:35:55,413 But I don't know... 682 00:35:56,827 --> 00:35:57,862 Yeah, I just don't know. 683 00:35:57,896 --> 00:35:59,551 Like, I don't know how to... 684 00:35:59,586 --> 00:36:02,241 'Cause Christine and I, we're... Like, it was just kind of one of those things 685 00:36:02,275 --> 00:36:04,137 that happened 'cause we were raising kids together. 686 00:36:05,793 --> 00:36:10,448 I kind of feel like you really are the only one that's having 687 00:36:10,482 --> 00:36:12,655 a fully-functioning relationship with Kody. 688 00:36:13,241 --> 00:36:14,206 And... 689 00:36:16,241 --> 00:36:17,517 ...that must... 690 00:36:18,793 --> 00:36:20,206 ...bother them. 691 00:36:21,551 --> 00:36:22,724 It makes me angry. 692 00:36:32,620 --> 00:36:34,413 Ah, I'm sorry. 693 00:36:35,448 --> 00:36:36,827 Oh, [bleep]. 694 00:36:36,862 --> 00:36:37,896 Sorry. 695 00:36:46,827 --> 00:36:50,000 Gosh, how am I gonna get through this interview? 696 00:36:51,310 --> 00:36:52,482 I can't. 697 00:36:53,655 --> 00:36:54,724 [exhales] 698 00:36:56,517 --> 00:36:57,551 [clears throat] 699 00:36:58,827 --> 00:37:00,034 Why does that make you so angry? 700 00:37:00,068 --> 00:37:02,103 You said, "Gosh, this makes me so angry." 701 00:37:04,241 --> 00:37:06,862 I just don't know why they're not figuring this stuff out. 702 00:37:08,344 --> 00:37:11,689 And talking and finding... 703 00:37:20,103 --> 00:37:21,103 [exhales] 704 00:37:25,310 --> 00:37:27,413 Finding their compromise and finding... 705 00:37:27,448 --> 00:37:31,206 [clears throat] Finding things that they... 706 00:37:31,241 --> 00:37:34,793 Finding the things that they love about each other and... 707 00:37:40,551 --> 00:37:41,965 I can't fix it for him. 708 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,517 I can try. I can try to persuade. 709 00:37:44,551 --> 00:37:45,896 I can try to influence. 710 00:37:45,931 --> 00:37:48,068 I can... I can beg. 711 00:37:48,103 --> 00:37:49,413 I can, um... 712 00:37:52,862 --> 00:37:54,379 That's a lot of heavy lifting. 713 00:37:58,551 --> 00:37:59,724 [voice shaking] It's my family. 714 00:38:04,068 --> 00:38:05,517 Gosh. 715 00:38:05,551 --> 00:38:06,793 No, you're doing great. 716 00:38:06,827 --> 00:38:09,034 And I know this is a difficult time for you and your family. 717 00:38:14,551 --> 00:38:16,896 And I'm sorry, but... 718 00:38:19,103 --> 00:38:21,379 Having been through a divorce yourself, 719 00:38:21,413 --> 00:38:24,793 can you tell me how Christine is feeling? 720 00:38:24,827 --> 00:38:28,379 And can you relate to her at this moment? 721 00:38:30,137 --> 00:38:32,379 [Robyn sighs] I was still trying when... 722 00:38:33,655 --> 00:38:36,241 ...it was when I was where she's at. 723 00:38:38,965 --> 00:38:40,793 I love Christine and... 724 00:38:42,586 --> 00:38:44,137 [exhales] 725 00:38:44,172 --> 00:38:48,000 I have always wanted her and Kody's relationship to be strong. 726 00:38:48,034 --> 00:38:49,000 Always. 727 00:38:51,034 --> 00:38:52,586 Um... [clears throat] 728 00:38:53,965 --> 00:38:55,689 I understand that... [clears throat] 729 00:39:00,206 --> 00:39:03,586 You know, she's feeling like she doesn't have other choices 730 00:39:03,620 --> 00:39:08,551 but I wish that she had decided to keep trying. 731 00:39:10,172 --> 00:39:14,103 Where are we at with Kody and Christine? 732 00:39:17,137 --> 00:39:18,655 Well, Christine says they're divorced. 733 00:39:21,172 --> 00:39:22,172 [sighs] 734 00:39:24,379 --> 00:39:25,206 And... 735 00:39:26,655 --> 00:39:28,379 ...technically, in my head, they're not. 736 00:39:28,413 --> 00:39:30,310 But, you know... 737 00:39:32,517 --> 00:39:36,344 Because their marriage was done by our church officials. 738 00:39:37,896 --> 00:39:39,482 And they haven't granted them a divorce. 739 00:39:40,034 --> 00:39:42,793 But I don't know. 740 00:39:42,827 --> 00:39:46,137 In our church, polygamous women can leave they're not trapped. 741 00:39:46,172 --> 00:39:47,827 - Mmm-hmm. - They can leave if they want to leave. 742 00:39:47,862 --> 00:39:50,965 And if it's not working, and they have to go through the proper channels and stuff. 743 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,827 But then they can get a release and then, they stay. 744 00:39:52,862 --> 00:39:55,379 Well, I haven't been a member of that church for a long time. 745 00:39:55,413 --> 00:39:58,206 - [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm. - And I left a long time ago. 746 00:39:58,241 --> 00:40:01,379 And I just have no interest in the church. 747 00:40:01,413 --> 00:40:03,758 So to me, the ecclesiastical authorities 748 00:40:03,793 --> 00:40:05,241 in that church, I don't really care. 749 00:40:05,275 --> 00:40:07,482 - Yeah. - As far as a religious ceiling, 750 00:40:07,517 --> 00:40:10,586 I just think that God's fine if I just want to be happy. 751 00:40:11,965 --> 00:40:14,172 And so for me to have, like, uh... 752 00:40:14,206 --> 00:40:16,413 Someone else tell me whether or not my marriage is over, 753 00:40:16,448 --> 00:40:20,103 I'm like, no, I don't really need that. 754 00:40:20,137 --> 00:40:22,689 But I... I'm curious about in your faith, 755 00:40:22,724 --> 00:40:24,827 - is she always married to you? - She doesn't believe it, no. 756 00:40:24,862 --> 00:40:28,172 No, she doesn't believe it and I... I'm comfortable with where she's at with it. 757 00:40:28,206 --> 00:40:31,137 - She doesn't believe it. - So she wouldn't go into the afterlife with you? 758 00:40:31,689 --> 00:40:33,000 - Because... - Uh. 759 00:40:34,068 --> 00:40:37,758 Well, see, God has a way of sorting things out. 760 00:40:37,793 --> 00:40:39,862 My religion says, "Uh-uh-uh!" 761 00:40:39,896 --> 00:40:41,448 That's a dogma of the religion. 762 00:40:41,482 --> 00:40:43,931 And I'm going, you know what? You don't know the mind of God. 763 00:40:43,965 --> 00:40:47,000 - Mmm-hmm. - And right now, it's just in God's hands 764 00:40:47,034 --> 00:40:48,724 and I'm not worried about it. 765 00:40:48,758 --> 00:40:50,413 God sorts those things out. 766 00:40:50,448 --> 00:40:53,344 - Mmm-hmm. - [Kody] So she... She doesn't believe in the religion. 767 00:40:53,379 --> 00:40:55,482 She's not part of the faith any more. 768 00:40:55,517 --> 00:40:59,172 And she's free from that yoke of bondage, if you will. 769 00:41:00,448 --> 00:41:03,724 Well, I think... I think Robin feels very sad. 770 00:41:03,758 --> 00:41:05,137 I know, she's very sweet. 771 00:41:05,172 --> 00:41:06,965 I mean, it's... 772 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,689 It's not fun breaking people's hearts. 773 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,620 I mean, at my core, I just want people to be happy 774 00:41:13,655 --> 00:41:15,655 and I just want people to feel loved. 775 00:41:15,689 --> 00:41:17,724 But I knew that I was making a decision that would break hearts. 776 00:41:18,344 --> 00:41:20,241 And it tore me apart. 777 00:41:20,275 --> 00:41:21,896 And it was super, super sad. 778 00:41:23,862 --> 00:41:25,310 So where are you and Kody at right now? 779 00:41:25,965 --> 00:41:27,620 Kody and I are divorced. 780 00:41:27,655 --> 00:41:28,689 We're completely separate. 781 00:41:30,068 --> 00:41:33,068 [Sukanya] Next time, on Sister Wives: One on One. 782 00:41:33,103 --> 00:41:35,620 - Are you questioning your own polygamy right now? - Oh, hell, yes. 783 00:41:35,655 --> 00:41:36,586 Yes. 784 00:41:36,620 --> 00:41:38,206 Okay, do I still want to do this? 785 00:41:38,241 --> 00:41:40,310 If he doesn't love plural marriage, what does he do? 786 00:41:40,344 --> 00:41:41,965 And we've seen that in our culture. 787 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,896 If he wants to give up, he can give up. 788 00:41:45,931 --> 00:41:47,896 I have been moved out of my house. 789 00:41:47,931 --> 00:41:50,379 What did I do so wrong? 790 00:41:50,413 --> 00:41:54,034 I've actually never seen her side of this. 791 00:41:54,068 --> 00:41:57,482 So you can have an intimate relationship with somebody else. 792 00:41:57,517 --> 00:41:59,448 But I get nothing. 793 00:41:59,482 --> 00:42:01,379 What a waste. [chuckles] 794 00:42:01,413 --> 00:42:05,758 I don't see why giving up is an option when you haven't actually tried. 795 00:42:05,793 --> 00:42:10,206 You're pulling apart something that has been for 25 years. 796 00:42:10,241 --> 00:42:11,862 It's like who are you after that? 797 00:42:11,896 --> 00:42:14,206 I mean, we have really messed this up. 798 00:42:14,241 --> 00:42:16,482 This call to be better than we are. 799 00:42:16,517 --> 00:42:20,758 I'm changing the whole dynamic of a huge family. 800 00:42:20,793 --> 00:42:23,724 Is it just selfish? Is that what this is? 801 00:42:23,758 --> 00:42:25,827 I know you want to set the record straight. 802 00:42:25,862 --> 00:42:27,137 You've got your version of the story. 803 00:42:27,172 --> 00:42:29,379 Christine has hers. 804 00:42:29,413 --> 00:42:30,620 There's a lot to unpack with that. 805 00:42:31,965 --> 00:42:33,206 More than I want to.