1 00:00:01,301 --> 00:00:02,968 [Janelle] We've been so divided with Covid, 2 00:00:02,970 --> 00:00:04,670 I am beginning to worry that we may not recover. 3 00:00:04,672 --> 00:00:06,538 [sobs] 4 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:09,908 [Sukanya] This has been the most difficult season of Sister Wives yet. 5 00:00:09,910 --> 00:00:12,177 What's best for the group is more important. 6 00:00:12,179 --> 00:00:14,246 I guess not everybody agrees with that. 7 00:00:14,248 --> 00:00:17,082 The whole family's gonna fall apart. 8 00:00:17,084 --> 00:00:18,550 [Sukanya] Faced with conflict... 9 00:00:18,552 --> 00:00:20,953 - I have been waiting for you. - And I'm not coming. 10 00:00:20,955 --> 00:00:22,821 Meri, I can't be in a marriage with Kody any more. 11 00:00:22,823 --> 00:00:24,890 I have been moved out of my house. 12 00:00:24,892 --> 00:00:26,158 [crying] 13 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,893 [Sukanya] ...and divided over choices, 14 00:00:27,895 --> 00:00:29,595 the Browns have struggled. 15 00:00:29,597 --> 00:00:31,930 I don't give a [bleep] any more. 16 00:00:31,932 --> 00:00:33,432 Where does that leave us? 17 00:00:34,868 --> 00:00:36,969 [Sukanya] Over the next three episodes, 18 00:00:36,971 --> 00:00:39,538 I sit down individually with Kody, 19 00:00:39,540 --> 00:00:43,142 Janelle, Robyn, Christine, and Meri, 20 00:00:43,144 --> 00:00:46,712 to talk about the most contentious events in their lives. 21 00:00:46,714 --> 00:00:48,280 Tell me about your relationship with Meri. 22 00:00:48,282 --> 00:00:49,882 There's just nothing to talk about. 23 00:00:49,884 --> 00:00:52,418 Why don't you just leave? Because I don't want to. 24 00:00:52,420 --> 00:00:54,186 You emotionally have abandoned them. 25 00:00:54,188 --> 00:00:55,954 Abandoned? Please. 26 00:00:55,956 --> 00:00:57,623 Meri had an affair. 27 00:00:57,625 --> 00:01:00,092 His negativity is kind of making me crazy. 28 00:01:00,094 --> 00:01:01,827 There's also been a lot of pain. 29 00:01:01,829 --> 00:01:04,196 Are we ever gonna have an intimate marriage again? 30 00:01:04,198 --> 00:01:06,465 He just said, "Probably not." 31 00:01:06,467 --> 00:01:08,700 I am angry. 32 00:01:08,702 --> 00:01:11,637 [sighs] I'm devastated by Christine's choice. 33 00:01:11,639 --> 00:01:13,005 We've got these great memories 34 00:01:13,007 --> 00:01:15,240 and we've got these beautiful children, and you hate polygamy? 35 00:01:15,242 --> 00:01:16,341 What the crap? 36 00:01:16,343 --> 00:01:19,278 If he wants to give up, he can give up. 37 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,847 If he doesn't love plural marriage, what does he do? 38 00:01:21,849 --> 00:01:23,615 Where are you and Kody right now? 39 00:01:23,617 --> 00:01:24,950 We're completely separate. 40 00:01:24,952 --> 00:01:26,852 We are no longer together. 41 00:01:26,854 --> 00:01:28,120 Kody and I are divorced. 42 00:01:29,522 --> 00:01:32,391 I'm Sukanya Krishnan, and this is 43 00:01:32,393 --> 00:01:34,259 [Sukanya reading] 44 00:01:35,895 --> 00:01:37,729 [Kody] What a sunrise. 45 00:01:37,731 --> 00:01:39,565 Anyway, I've been up for a bit, 46 00:01:39,567 --> 00:01:42,868 'cause I'm actually going to a hotel 47 00:01:42,870 --> 00:01:47,005 in Flagstaff, to meet with a former news anchor. 48 00:01:47,007 --> 00:01:48,974 I am... 49 00:01:50,043 --> 00:01:51,443 not looking forward to it, 50 00:01:51,445 --> 00:01:52,778 but to be honest, mentally prepared. 51 00:01:52,780 --> 00:01:54,413 I'm always a little bit nervous 52 00:01:54,415 --> 00:01:57,049 for these shows, and always a little bit... 53 00:01:57,051 --> 00:01:58,450 I don't know, sort of keyed up. 54 00:01:58,452 --> 00:02:01,153 It can be a lot, it can be hard and it can be heavy. 55 00:02:01,155 --> 00:02:04,823 We're not doing this together, which normally we do. 56 00:02:09,028 --> 00:02:10,796 [man] Just bring your necklace up. 57 00:02:12,899 --> 00:02:13,899 Marker. 58 00:02:14,701 --> 00:02:18,337 In five, four, three... 59 00:02:18,339 --> 00:02:19,705 - It's great to see you. - Thank you. 60 00:02:19,707 --> 00:02:21,073 And it's great to meet you in person. 61 00:02:21,075 --> 00:02:22,875 And to be in person after Covid. 62 00:02:22,877 --> 00:02:25,811 Yeah. I know, right? This is, like, this is normal. 63 00:02:25,813 --> 00:02:27,713 This is kind of a stroke of normal. 64 00:02:27,715 --> 00:02:29,982 A little bit of normal, a little bit of normal. 65 00:02:29,984 --> 00:02:31,850 It seems like the family's been through a lot. 66 00:02:31,852 --> 00:02:33,352 - Yes, for sure. - Yeah. 67 00:02:33,354 --> 00:02:34,520 We definitely... 68 00:02:34,522 --> 00:02:37,256 We have, like, I think probably, like, most families 69 00:02:37,258 --> 00:02:38,790 or most people across the country 70 00:02:38,792 --> 00:02:40,159 such varying opinions 71 00:02:40,161 --> 00:02:43,529 on risk, and risk tolerance, and... 72 00:02:43,531 --> 00:02:45,564 and trying to make it work for everybody. 73 00:02:45,566 --> 00:02:48,500 I feel like you, um, 74 00:02:48,502 --> 00:02:50,502 are sometimes the conscience of the family. 75 00:02:50,504 --> 00:02:53,872 And pre-Covid, you talked about family distance. 76 00:02:53,874 --> 00:02:55,807 You had this big family meeting together. 77 00:02:55,809 --> 00:02:58,544 And you wanted all the sister wives 78 00:02:58,546 --> 00:02:59,778 - and Kody... - Mmm-hmm. 79 00:02:59,780 --> 00:03:02,080 to have a real, candid conversation. 80 00:03:02,082 --> 00:03:03,148 Mmm-hmm. 81 00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:04,950 Let's take a look at that conversation, 82 00:03:04,952 --> 00:03:06,785 - and then let's get your reaction after it. - Okay. 83 00:03:08,221 --> 00:03:11,123 I think after we moved to Flagstaff, 84 00:03:11,125 --> 00:03:13,192 all of us were seeing fractures 85 00:03:13,194 --> 00:03:15,060 in the family culture. 86 00:03:15,062 --> 00:03:16,828 I feel like we signed up for something 87 00:03:16,830 --> 00:03:18,564 when we decided to be a plural family, 88 00:03:18,566 --> 00:03:20,165 and it just seems like we're all sort of like, 89 00:03:20,167 --> 00:03:22,401 "Whatever, let's just let it happen. 90 00:03:22,403 --> 00:03:23,669 We're gonna just roll with it." 91 00:03:23,671 --> 00:03:25,404 And I don't like that, 92 00:03:25,406 --> 00:03:27,072 so I'm gonna have a conversation with my family. 93 00:03:27,074 --> 00:03:29,508 Do you think our family feels like it used to? 94 00:03:29,510 --> 00:03:30,842 Like, when you first met us, Robyn, 95 00:03:30,844 --> 00:03:33,545 does it feel like that in our family now? 96 00:03:33,547 --> 00:03:35,047 Oh, since we've been to Flagstaff, 97 00:03:35,049 --> 00:03:36,114 it's been different. 98 00:03:36,116 --> 00:03:37,983 We're not doing anything together. 99 00:03:37,985 --> 00:03:39,151 And it's super-stressful 100 00:03:39,153 --> 00:03:41,286 when we do do stuff together, it's not easy. 101 00:03:41,288 --> 00:03:43,488 I mean, just getting us together again 102 00:03:43,490 --> 00:03:45,891 for a simple dinner took months. 103 00:03:45,893 --> 00:03:47,960 Because we don't need each other as much, 104 00:03:47,962 --> 00:03:49,161 we've lost something. 105 00:03:49,163 --> 00:03:51,463 And I don't know what the solution is. 106 00:03:51,465 --> 00:03:53,332 But there's something fundamentally going wrong, 107 00:03:53,334 --> 00:03:56,201 and I feel like... I feel like we have tribalism. 108 00:03:56,203 --> 00:03:59,071 [Meri] Because we are in four separate homes, 109 00:03:59,073 --> 00:04:01,807 we just started escaping. 110 00:04:01,809 --> 00:04:03,008 It was easy. 111 00:04:03,010 --> 00:04:05,477 I feel like I'm on the outside looking in all the time. 112 00:04:05,479 --> 00:04:06,612 - [Robyn] Really? - Yes. 113 00:04:06,614 --> 00:04:07,713 And when I get together 114 00:04:07,715 --> 00:04:09,114 for family gatherings, I'm like... 115 00:04:09,849 --> 00:04:10,882 Why would I wanna go? 116 00:04:10,884 --> 00:04:12,517 'Cause it's just gonna be a hostile environment, 117 00:04:12,519 --> 00:04:14,753 and no one there even likes me. 118 00:04:14,755 --> 00:04:16,054 [Christine] Yup, that's how I felt. 119 00:04:16,056 --> 00:04:17,556 See, I think this is the danger 120 00:04:17,558 --> 00:04:19,091 of spending too much time separate. 121 00:04:19,093 --> 00:04:20,158 And maybe... 122 00:04:21,694 --> 00:04:23,028 and this would be heartbreaking, 123 00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:24,196 there are some of us who are like, 124 00:04:24,198 --> 00:04:25,697 "Look, I don't want it any more." 125 00:04:27,033 --> 00:04:28,800 All right, so, before the pandemic, 126 00:04:28,802 --> 00:04:31,570 you already started feeling the isolation. 127 00:04:31,572 --> 00:04:33,605 Why was it so important for you to call this meeting? 128 00:04:33,607 --> 00:04:36,074 Why do you think this was happening? 129 00:04:36,076 --> 00:04:38,744 You know, I just think it was sort of a natural evolution. 130 00:04:38,746 --> 00:04:40,045 Our children were growing up, 131 00:04:40,047 --> 00:04:41,980 we didn't need each other as much, 132 00:04:41,982 --> 00:04:43,982 'cause when we have a lot of little children, 133 00:04:43,984 --> 00:04:45,317 we needed each other so much 134 00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:47,519 to just kind of manage day-to-day. 135 00:04:47,521 --> 00:04:49,221 There wasn't as much in common, 136 00:04:49,223 --> 00:04:50,956 we all have our own things going on. 137 00:04:51,724 --> 00:04:53,158 There's a real, conscious effort 138 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:54,960 that needed to be made to get together, 139 00:04:54,962 --> 00:04:57,529 and continue those common experiences. 140 00:04:57,531 --> 00:04:59,431 And we just weren't doing it. 141 00:04:59,433 --> 00:05:02,701 And in a polygamous family, that is a danger zone, right? 142 00:05:02,703 --> 00:05:03,935 - When you start... - I think it is. 143 00:05:03,937 --> 00:05:05,037 So, there's two danger zones. 144 00:05:05,039 --> 00:05:06,171 One, you have to be conscientious 145 00:05:06,173 --> 00:05:07,739 and be actively working. 146 00:05:07,741 --> 00:05:10,175 And then two, don't spend too much time in your head 147 00:05:10,177 --> 00:05:12,911 imagining things about the other people. 148 00:05:12,913 --> 00:05:15,781 Those are the two big, big danger zones. 149 00:05:15,783 --> 00:05:18,317 There was an awareness that I came to 150 00:05:18,319 --> 00:05:23,388 with the family, that we had been united 151 00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:25,223 in so much of what we had done. 152 00:05:26,225 --> 00:05:27,959 - Let's say in Las Vegas. - Yeah. 153 00:05:27,961 --> 00:05:29,861 We're in this cul-de-sac, we're next to each other, 154 00:05:29,863 --> 00:05:31,396 we're united in what we've done. 155 00:05:31,398 --> 00:05:35,600 We sort of hashed it out, and were forced to address it, 156 00:05:35,602 --> 00:05:36,802 and sometimes we just didn't. 157 00:05:36,804 --> 00:05:39,104 There's this perpetual, um... 158 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,074 A perpetual dishonesty 159 00:05:42,076 --> 00:05:43,809 - that we dealt with... - Right. 160 00:05:43,811 --> 00:05:45,977 in order to keep relationships good and healthy. 161 00:05:45,979 --> 00:05:47,879 Moving to Flagstaff separated us. 162 00:05:47,881 --> 00:05:49,981 - Mmm. - And at that point, it was like, 163 00:05:49,983 --> 00:05:52,684 we don't have to do everything like we used to do it. 164 00:05:52,686 --> 00:05:55,520 And that became sort of a prevailing attitude. 165 00:05:55,522 --> 00:05:57,089 And that even became my attitude. 166 00:05:57,091 --> 00:05:58,557 "Ladies, I'm gonna do this, 167 00:05:59,359 --> 00:06:00,926 you choose what you're gonna do." 168 00:06:00,928 --> 00:06:02,327 And they did. 169 00:06:02,329 --> 00:06:04,296 I remember feeling like, 170 00:06:04,298 --> 00:06:06,264 "You know what? This is kinda weird. 171 00:06:06,266 --> 00:06:08,300 We're not seeing each other, we're not interacting a lot." 172 00:06:08,302 --> 00:06:09,835 But at the same time, 173 00:06:09,837 --> 00:06:13,472 I looked at it as we were just focusing on 174 00:06:13,474 --> 00:06:17,609 trying to get settled in a new town, in a new home. 175 00:06:17,611 --> 00:06:20,178 And so I was just kind of, like, letting it go, 176 00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:22,881 and it became deeper. 177 00:06:22,883 --> 00:06:25,183 Yeah, I'm sure everybody hates me all the time. 178 00:06:27,787 --> 00:06:28,987 - [Robyn] What? - I feel like I'm on 179 00:06:28,989 --> 00:06:30,622 the outside looking in all the time. 180 00:06:30,624 --> 00:06:31,723 - Really? - Yes. 181 00:06:31,725 --> 00:06:32,791 And then when I get together 182 00:06:32,793 --> 00:06:34,459 for family gatherings, I'm like... 183 00:06:34,461 --> 00:06:35,794 Why would I wanna go? 184 00:06:35,796 --> 00:06:37,429 'Cause it's just gonna be a hostile environment, 185 00:06:37,431 --> 00:06:38,497 and no one there even likes me. 186 00:06:39,999 --> 00:06:43,468 What did you say to her to help her sort of heal? 187 00:06:43,470 --> 00:06:47,339 Because she also uses the word "hostile" at this time, too. 188 00:06:47,341 --> 00:06:48,473 It was a big word. 189 00:06:48,475 --> 00:06:50,208 I was surprised at that, too. 190 00:06:50,210 --> 00:06:51,443 "Hostile." 191 00:06:52,145 --> 00:06:54,045 Um, I mean, I can see where... 192 00:06:54,047 --> 00:06:56,248 Okay, so, what I feel like is sometimes, 193 00:06:56,250 --> 00:06:58,617 when we haven't been around family for a while, 194 00:06:58,619 --> 00:07:01,052 you can get kind of these monsters in your head. 195 00:07:01,054 --> 00:07:05,891 She had said in that moment when we were at dinner, 196 00:07:05,893 --> 00:07:08,894 she said, um, "I feel like I'm hated." 197 00:07:08,896 --> 00:07:11,463 - Mmm. - And so I was like, 198 00:07:11,465 --> 00:07:13,632 I'm gonna make sure she knows I don't hate her, 199 00:07:13,634 --> 00:07:16,034 'cause that's a really big thing to sit there, 200 00:07:16,036 --> 00:07:18,670 and wonder if people feel that way about you. 201 00:07:18,672 --> 00:07:21,072 Yeah, it kind of set me back a little bit. 202 00:07:21,074 --> 00:07:22,874 'Cause I didn't realize that she felt... 203 00:07:22,876 --> 00:07:24,576 'Cause she's usually the life of the party. 204 00:07:24,578 --> 00:07:25,877 We get together, 205 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:28,947 she's really, like, a vibrant part of our family gatherings. 206 00:07:28,949 --> 00:07:32,350 I was surprised that she felt like that. 207 00:07:32,352 --> 00:07:35,086 All of your sister wives were looking at you, 208 00:07:35,088 --> 00:07:37,756 - very shocked and perplexed as to... - Yeah. 209 00:07:37,758 --> 00:07:41,593 "I'm sorry, we had no idea you were feeling this." 210 00:07:41,595 --> 00:07:44,629 I don't know why Christine is saying this. 211 00:07:44,631 --> 00:07:46,364 That she feels like she's hated. 212 00:07:46,366 --> 00:07:48,133 Like, that's... that's scary. 213 00:07:48,135 --> 00:07:49,901 [Meri] I mean, I totally understand, you know, 214 00:07:49,903 --> 00:07:53,238 going into a family function, 215 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,874 and just, like, not knowing where you stand. 216 00:07:55,876 --> 00:07:56,908 Wow. 217 00:07:57,944 --> 00:08:00,879 I mean, it's a shame that she feels like that. 218 00:08:00,881 --> 00:08:03,615 I feel like Janelle deserved, and since she 219 00:08:03,617 --> 00:08:06,284 was brave enough to have us all come together, 220 00:08:06,286 --> 00:08:08,553 I wanted to be authentic for Janelle, too. 221 00:08:08,555 --> 00:08:09,955 And that's exactly how I felt. 222 00:08:09,957 --> 00:08:12,457 And it was probably all internal, 223 00:08:12,459 --> 00:08:14,092 I'm not gonna say it's not. 224 00:08:14,094 --> 00:08:17,195 Like, definitely, it was all a lovely conversation 225 00:08:17,197 --> 00:08:19,998 I was having with myself most of the time. 226 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,434 And I just felt like before I would ever go to 227 00:08:22,436 --> 00:08:24,769 any family gatherings or anything, 228 00:08:24,771 --> 00:08:26,905 I just really hesitated, and I'm like, 229 00:08:26,907 --> 00:08:28,340 "Does anyone really even like me?" 230 00:08:28,342 --> 00:08:30,175 'Cause we wouldn't reach out to each other. 231 00:08:30,177 --> 00:08:32,077 But I wouldn't reach out either. 232 00:08:32,079 --> 00:08:34,779 And then, Kody and I had been having such a rough time 233 00:08:34,781 --> 00:08:36,414 for so long, 234 00:08:36,416 --> 00:08:38,316 and it's really hard to be in a room 235 00:08:38,318 --> 00:08:39,918 with everybody, 236 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,455 and watch him be incredible in other relationships, 237 00:08:43,457 --> 00:08:45,190 and know that your own is terrible, 238 00:08:45,192 --> 00:08:46,858 and wonder, "What am I supposed to do?" 239 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:49,594 You know, what am I supposed to do in a room where 240 00:08:49,596 --> 00:08:52,197 I feel like I really don't matter? 241 00:08:52,199 --> 00:08:54,766 So I would go in there shielded too, 242 00:08:54,768 --> 00:08:56,968 and worried about 243 00:08:57,803 --> 00:08:59,538 just seeing Kody with his wives. 244 00:08:59,540 --> 00:09:00,672 It was so hard. 245 00:09:01,541 --> 00:09:03,875 The other part of this conversation 246 00:09:03,877 --> 00:09:06,378 that you were having was really Christine's pain. 247 00:09:06,380 --> 00:09:09,114 Saying that she wasn't liked, that she didn't, you know, 248 00:09:09,116 --> 00:09:11,349 she has anxiety coming to these things. 249 00:09:11,351 --> 00:09:14,019 What was going through your mind when she's revealing this? 250 00:09:14,021 --> 00:09:15,487 Robyn's face was pure shock. 251 00:09:15,489 --> 00:09:19,224 Yeah. It kind of surprised me that she was saying that. 252 00:09:19,226 --> 00:09:21,860 Um, I didn't know that she felt like that. 253 00:09:21,862 --> 00:09:23,595 And yet I also understood those feelings, 254 00:09:23,597 --> 00:09:24,663 'cause I've felt like that 255 00:09:24,665 --> 00:09:26,131 - before, and I... - Right. 256 00:09:26,133 --> 00:09:28,867 You know, I think it's just a little bit of an insecurity 257 00:09:28,869 --> 00:09:33,071 that she was having, and that I have had as well. 258 00:09:33,073 --> 00:09:34,372 At that point, when you knew that 259 00:09:34,374 --> 00:09:37,409 you could align with her emotions, 260 00:09:37,411 --> 00:09:39,711 right, having had those insecurities before, 261 00:09:39,713 --> 00:09:41,479 did you feel like you can talk to her and be like, 262 00:09:41,481 --> 00:09:42,914 "Hey, we've all been there before"? 263 00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:44,683 Yeah. And there were times 264 00:09:44,685 --> 00:09:48,453 that I did reach out to her during those times, 265 00:09:48,455 --> 00:09:51,756 I would send a text or try calling, or whatever, and... 266 00:09:51,758 --> 00:09:56,595 and not always was that reciprocated. 267 00:09:56,597 --> 00:09:58,830 Did you feel like 268 00:09:58,832 --> 00:10:00,899 that conversation was highlighting 269 00:10:00,901 --> 00:10:04,169 the relationship kind of not being okay 270 00:10:04,171 --> 00:10:05,770 between Christine and Kody? 271 00:10:05,772 --> 00:10:07,939 - Oh, I didn't... - You didn't know about that? 272 00:10:07,941 --> 00:10:10,108 That's not something that I recognized in that moment. 273 00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:11,710 You didn't know about it? Okay. 274 00:10:11,712 --> 00:10:16,815 In that moment, I was just recognizing, like, 275 00:10:16,817 --> 00:10:19,217 what we were talking about, what Janelle brought up. 276 00:10:19,219 --> 00:10:20,485 "Hey, where are we? 277 00:10:20,487 --> 00:10:22,387 Do we want to all be together? 278 00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:24,889 Do we want to work together?" Like... 279 00:10:24,891 --> 00:10:28,293 Since we've moved to Flagstaff things are kind of weird. 280 00:10:28,295 --> 00:10:30,228 You said that your relationship with Kody 281 00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:32,964 at this point was already a lot of fractures, 282 00:10:32,966 --> 00:10:34,599 - a lot of strain, a lot of stress. - Mmm-hmm. 283 00:10:34,601 --> 00:10:37,602 At that point, were you willing to work on 284 00:10:37,604 --> 00:10:39,070 your relationship with him, 285 00:10:39,072 --> 00:10:41,006 and all the other sister wives, 286 00:10:41,008 --> 00:10:43,108 to create and keep this family unit together? 287 00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:44,442 At that point of the dinner, yes. 288 00:10:44,444 --> 00:10:46,277 At that point of the dinner I thought, "You know what? 289 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:47,912 This is a great wake-up call." 290 00:10:47,914 --> 00:10:50,815 And we have wonderful times together. 291 00:10:50,817 --> 00:10:53,418 And especially when the sister wives would get together, 292 00:10:53,420 --> 00:10:55,687 not with Kody, you know, that was super-fun. 293 00:10:55,689 --> 00:10:57,255 So this dinner was kinda like, 294 00:10:57,257 --> 00:11:00,525 "Okay, I think that we really, honestly, can do this." 295 00:11:00,527 --> 00:11:02,827 It was kind of like a wake-up call, little bit. 296 00:11:02,829 --> 00:11:04,963 But then Covid happened. 297 00:11:04,965 --> 00:11:10,135 Yup, and then we became way more separate with Covid. 298 00:11:11,103 --> 00:11:12,203 [Sukanya reading] 299 00:11:12,205 --> 00:11:15,306 If you don't wanna get this, then don't get exposure. 300 00:11:15,308 --> 00:11:17,375 If you don't wanna get pregnant, 301 00:11:17,377 --> 00:11:19,010 just don't have sex. 302 00:11:19,012 --> 00:11:20,779 Was he forcing you to make a choice? 303 00:11:20,781 --> 00:11:23,481 He would love it if we chose what he chose. 304 00:11:23,483 --> 00:11:27,686 The family unity and the group just... [sighs] 305 00:11:28,988 --> 00:11:30,822 Got thrown out of the window because of a virus. 306 00:11:37,263 --> 00:11:40,999 Okay, we are rolling, and... 307 00:11:41,001 --> 00:11:44,202 Um, so, Kody, there's a lot going on this season. 308 00:11:44,204 --> 00:11:45,870 And we wanna get into a real, frank conversation 309 00:11:45,872 --> 00:11:47,372 about what's going on. 310 00:11:47,374 --> 00:11:50,742 But Covid shined a light differently. 311 00:11:50,744 --> 00:11:52,977 Let's talk about the initial protocols. 312 00:11:52,979 --> 00:11:54,679 - Mmm, yeah. - Um... 313 00:11:54,681 --> 00:11:56,448 What were they? 314 00:11:56,450 --> 00:11:58,349 Basically the schools sent all the kids home. 315 00:11:58,351 --> 00:11:59,451 [Sukanya] Okay. 316 00:11:59,453 --> 00:12:01,586 Uh, the government, the local government, 317 00:12:01,588 --> 00:12:02,887 shut down businesses. 318 00:12:02,889 --> 00:12:07,425 And basically mask mandates, you know. 319 00:12:07,427 --> 00:12:10,261 And warnings. Warnings, warnings, warnings. 320 00:12:10,263 --> 00:12:13,531 Um, and that's kind of where it all went. 321 00:12:13,533 --> 00:12:16,501 Well, that kinda leads me to different households 322 00:12:16,503 --> 00:12:20,371 within your family structure having different protocols. 323 00:12:20,373 --> 00:12:21,673 I want you to watch these clips 324 00:12:21,675 --> 00:12:23,675 - and then we'll talk about it after. - Sure. 325 00:12:27,546 --> 00:12:30,215 Because of Covid-19, for a few months now, 326 00:12:30,217 --> 00:12:32,584 we've been practicing Covid protocols. 327 00:12:32,586 --> 00:12:34,352 Each one of you wanna be able to see me, 328 00:12:34,354 --> 00:12:36,588 but I can be the only one that you see 329 00:12:36,590 --> 00:12:39,023 besides your immediate children. 330 00:12:39,025 --> 00:12:41,593 We've kinda got to a place where 331 00:12:41,595 --> 00:12:44,395 not everybody's in agreement. 332 00:12:44,397 --> 00:12:47,799 I will tell you that I can't go all summer doing this. 333 00:12:47,801 --> 00:12:49,567 'Cause she doesn't wanna hear the facts. 334 00:12:49,569 --> 00:12:50,668 She doesn't wanna hear it. 335 00:12:50,670 --> 00:12:52,437 Kody seems to be taking it 336 00:12:52,439 --> 00:12:54,305 to a whole different level of isolation. 337 00:12:54,307 --> 00:12:56,074 [Christine] I know he would rather us 338 00:12:56,076 --> 00:12:57,442 just stay home all the time. 339 00:12:57,444 --> 00:12:58,610 But yeah, it's not gonna happen, 340 00:12:58,612 --> 00:12:59,744 I have other kids to go see. 341 00:12:59,746 --> 00:13:02,914 [Kody] It's not a breakdown in communication. 342 00:13:02,916 --> 00:13:06,684 It's a breakdown in agreement on how we're supposed to 343 00:13:06,686 --> 00:13:10,789 have our family behave during Covid-19. 344 00:13:10,791 --> 00:13:12,957 I don't like telling them what to do, 345 00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:15,960 because they just like to put me in my place. 346 00:13:15,962 --> 00:13:17,996 But right now is one of those times 347 00:13:17,998 --> 00:13:20,632 when I would like to be able to say, "Hey! 348 00:13:20,634 --> 00:13:23,134 These are the rules, and you're gonna do 'em." 349 00:13:23,136 --> 00:13:25,270 [Janelle] We've been so divided with Covid, 350 00:13:25,272 --> 00:13:27,839 I'm beginning to worry the longer this goes on, 351 00:13:28,874 --> 00:13:30,341 that we may not recover. 352 00:13:31,644 --> 00:13:35,280 Okay, that was very, very poignant what Janelle said. 353 00:13:35,282 --> 00:13:37,382 My biggest concern right from the beginning 354 00:13:37,384 --> 00:13:39,951 when it was all this... This fear, you know. 355 00:13:39,953 --> 00:13:42,821 "So many will die and your children are at risk." 356 00:13:42,823 --> 00:13:46,090 - Well, I wanted to prevent the death of a child. - Yeah. 357 00:13:46,092 --> 00:13:50,995 We can look back now and go, "Maybe we were too strict." 358 00:13:50,997 --> 00:13:53,064 At the same time, I was like going, "Okay, 359 00:13:53,866 --> 00:13:55,700 however long we have to quarantine, 360 00:13:55,702 --> 00:13:58,469 however long we have to do this, what if there's other side effects?" 361 00:13:58,471 --> 00:14:00,738 - You know, well, nobody wants to die. - Right. 362 00:14:00,740 --> 00:14:02,740 But what if you have something where 363 00:14:02,742 --> 00:14:05,610 it affects your lungs or your kidneys for long term in your life? 364 00:14:05,612 --> 00:14:08,680 - Or it affects your brain or something like that. - So it was all the what if's 365 00:14:08,682 --> 00:14:12,550 that kind of made you stick to your initial protocols? 366 00:14:12,552 --> 00:14:17,055 Yeah, yeah. And this is [stutters] With the advice of my physician as well. 367 00:14:17,057 --> 00:14:19,357 It's like, "Hey listen. You know, like..." 368 00:14:19,359 --> 00:14:23,361 You know. "If you don't want to get pregnant, just don't have sex." 369 00:14:23,363 --> 00:14:24,829 - Yeah. - I mean, sorry that's a... 370 00:14:24,831 --> 00:14:28,499 That might be a crass um, analogy, 371 00:14:28,501 --> 00:14:30,468 but it's like, if you don't want to get this, 372 00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:32,804 then don't get exposure to it. 373 00:14:32,806 --> 00:14:35,573 And you don't know where you'll get the exposure. 374 00:14:35,575 --> 00:14:39,310 Robyn was right off the bat, "I am going to keep these rules 375 00:14:39,312 --> 00:14:43,314 because my children are at a tender age. 376 00:14:43,316 --> 00:14:45,216 They need their dad here." 377 00:14:45,218 --> 00:14:47,418 Now I had two other wives. 378 00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:50,221 One who was mostly compliant, 379 00:14:50,223 --> 00:14:52,757 - but couldn't keep her kids compliant. - Yeah. 380 00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:55,159 And then one who was just not compliant. 381 00:14:55,161 --> 00:14:59,063 Specifically Christine was like, "I want to be free." 382 00:14:59,065 --> 00:15:00,665 I think it would be awesome to get together. 383 00:15:00,667 --> 00:15:02,200 I think it would be super, super cool. 384 00:15:02,202 --> 00:15:04,569 I think it's sad to be separated. 385 00:15:04,571 --> 00:15:07,872 I think it might be the safest and the most responsible thing to do to stay separated. 386 00:15:07,874 --> 00:15:09,874 Am I a fan of it? No. 387 00:15:09,876 --> 00:15:12,977 I think it's ridiculous that we're not getting together. 388 00:15:12,979 --> 00:15:16,047 It's not realistic. It's just simply not. 389 00:15:16,049 --> 00:15:19,851 Um, when Kody first we had this Zoom call together, and he goes, "You know 390 00:15:19,853 --> 00:15:23,154 I can be the only one that goes from house to house to house." 391 00:15:23,156 --> 00:15:25,823 I have kids that live everywhere and I can't. 392 00:15:25,825 --> 00:15:28,726 I cannot just stay home. 393 00:15:28,728 --> 00:15:31,796 - When kids say they need you, you go. - Yeah. 394 00:15:31,798 --> 00:15:33,798 Was he forcing you to make a choice? 395 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,768 He would love it if we chose what he chose. 396 00:15:36,770 --> 00:15:38,136 Don't get me wrong. We were super smart. 397 00:15:38,138 --> 00:15:41,272 We followed the CDC guidelines. We kept the distance. 398 00:15:41,274 --> 00:15:44,375 You know, every time we traveled, we would come back and tell Kody. 399 00:15:44,377 --> 00:15:47,412 We'd quarantine afterwards so that he could come over again. 400 00:15:47,414 --> 00:15:49,047 - So you were following protocols? - Yeah. 401 00:15:49,049 --> 00:15:52,350 I was following the CDC protocols, just not Kody's. 402 00:15:52,352 --> 00:15:57,088 Christine literally was like, "I'd rather see my other kids than see you." 403 00:15:57,090 --> 00:16:00,258 Did you feel that looking back at it, 404 00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:03,962 do you understand why Christine was doing what she wanted to do? 405 00:16:03,964 --> 00:16:06,664 - I can be empathetic to it. - Yeah. 406 00:16:06,666 --> 00:16:09,701 But I'm going to still maintain the rules. 407 00:16:09,703 --> 00:16:13,338 Truely had kidney failures years ago. She nearly died. 408 00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:20,345 That... That borderline death, that essence of loss in spite of not losing, 409 00:16:21,347 --> 00:16:23,414 that essence of loss changed us. 410 00:16:24,483 --> 00:16:27,318 And I am dead aware of it. 411 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,923 But we saw a lot of fractures like this year between you and Christine. 412 00:16:31,925 --> 00:16:35,193 Now her sort of leaning in the direction 413 00:16:35,195 --> 00:16:38,229 of her children during this time, 414 00:16:38,231 --> 00:16:43,401 was that more fracturing that was happening 415 00:16:43,403 --> 00:16:48,406 and more stress that was in the relationship that was sort of playing out? 416 00:16:48,408 --> 00:16:53,244 Yeah, and with hindsight I might have been able to be more loose about it. 417 00:16:53,246 --> 00:16:56,381 But every moment that I was dealing with it, I was like, 418 00:16:56,383 --> 00:16:59,417 I was getting firmer and firmer in my resolve. 419 00:16:59,419 --> 00:17:04,655 My sole goal was to keep everybody alive even if we were separated. 420 00:17:06,525 --> 00:17:09,193 [sighs] Gosh, it's such a tough uh... 421 00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:17,702 - Like I feel so torn by the situation. - Mmm-hmm. 422 00:17:17,704 --> 00:17:20,038 I understand what Kody was wanting to do. 423 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,507 And I understand what Janelle and Christine were about. 424 00:17:22,509 --> 00:17:25,743 But at the same time, I was like, "Why couldn't we have meshed those two?" 425 00:17:27,112 --> 00:17:32,383 I just felt like this is the family culture that we have built 426 00:17:32,385 --> 00:17:35,686 and we're destroying that. 427 00:17:35,688 --> 00:17:41,759 So you felt like them not being able to come to a solution 428 00:17:41,761 --> 00:17:45,496 - where we can bring everybody together-- - Yeah, and not just. Yeah. 429 00:17:45,498 --> 00:17:52,670 Was in a way destroying what you had created as a plural family. 430 00:17:52,672 --> 00:17:54,472 In the beginning, I didn't think of it that way. 431 00:17:54,474 --> 00:17:56,574 In the beginning, I thought, "This will go away eventually." 432 00:17:56,576 --> 00:18:00,611 But you know, how far are we into it and it still hasn't stopped. 433 00:18:05,551 --> 00:18:06,784 Tell me what's going on. 434 00:18:10,189 --> 00:18:11,189 [sniffles] 435 00:18:13,192 --> 00:18:15,426 - I hate crying. - No, no, no, no. 436 00:18:18,297 --> 00:18:19,664 Hold on. Can I get a tissue? 437 00:18:20,766 --> 00:18:22,633 I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Robyn. 438 00:18:26,371 --> 00:18:28,139 [sniffles] Um... 439 00:18:31,743 --> 00:18:34,178 - Hurt. - Yeah, it's just... 440 00:18:36,482 --> 00:18:40,051 It's just painful. It's just painful 'cause it's... 441 00:18:42,488 --> 00:18:49,193 It felt like the family group and the unity, all of that stuff just... 442 00:18:51,730 --> 00:18:53,598 Got thrown out of the window because of a virus. 443 00:18:56,301 --> 00:18:58,836 Really surprised me and shocked me and really... 444 00:19:01,807 --> 00:19:06,043 Um, it's really been disturbing. 445 00:19:06,045 --> 00:19:10,248 Do you think COVID has changed the family or shined a light 446 00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:15,786 on some of the issues that were already kind of existing there? 447 00:19:15,788 --> 00:19:18,089 Um, you know? It did both. 448 00:19:18,091 --> 00:19:22,760 I feel like it basically took that rug that we were shoving everything under 449 00:19:22,762 --> 00:19:26,531 - and just everything was shown. - Yeah. 450 00:19:26,533 --> 00:19:30,101 - I don't know. I'm just like, "Can we come back from this?" - Can you? 451 00:19:31,770 --> 00:19:35,106 - I'm trying. I want to. - Yeah. 452 00:19:37,042 --> 00:19:38,375 [Sukanya] Coming up... 453 00:19:38,377 --> 00:19:41,245 That... Oh, I just wanted... Like steam [imitates explosion] 454 00:19:41,247 --> 00:19:43,514 That's just not where our relationship is right now. 455 00:19:43,516 --> 00:19:45,550 Oh, my heart breaks when I think about their marriage 456 00:19:45,552 --> 00:19:47,485 and I don't want that. 457 00:19:47,487 --> 00:19:48,753 [Sukanya] And later... 458 00:19:48,755 --> 00:19:51,589 - It's hard to hear. - They can leave whenever they want. 459 00:19:57,062 --> 00:19:59,497 [producer] Alright, can we stay as close as we can to the end of the arms? 460 00:19:59,499 --> 00:20:01,599 Set here and quiet please. 461 00:20:01,601 --> 00:20:04,835 - Marker. - [producer] In five, four. 462 00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:07,905 Let's talk about loneliness, because that was something 463 00:20:07,907 --> 00:20:10,741 that everybody felt during the pandemic. 464 00:20:10,743 --> 00:20:14,712 And it was really spotlighted with all of the sister wives 465 00:20:14,714 --> 00:20:17,949 - in separate times throughout this season. - Yep. 466 00:20:17,951 --> 00:20:20,785 - Let's take a look at the clip and then, we'll talk about it. - Okay. 467 00:20:20,787 --> 00:20:23,154 Because you were very authentic in your feelings 468 00:20:23,156 --> 00:20:26,591 - of feeling alone and alienated during this time. - Yeah. 469 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,796 [Christine] The whole world's scared. They're scared to leave their house. 470 00:20:31,798 --> 00:20:33,598 They're scared to trust people. 471 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,566 They're scared to be around people. 472 00:20:35,568 --> 00:20:39,003 And then, they're lonely. They're so lonely. 473 00:20:39,005 --> 00:20:41,239 I guess that's why I'm so concerned about Janelle. 474 00:20:41,241 --> 00:20:44,108 [Janelle] Honestly, I sit and watch TV. 475 00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:48,579 Like, I don't even want to pick up my phone and talk to anybody. 476 00:20:48,581 --> 00:20:52,817 I don't text anybody. Like, I'm... I'm not good. 477 00:20:52,819 --> 00:20:57,488 If I didn't have my girls with me during this whole COVID thing, 478 00:20:57,490 --> 00:20:59,657 I'm sure I would have been going insane. 479 00:20:59,659 --> 00:21:02,226 [Kody] I always saw one of the main benefits about plural marriage 480 00:21:02,228 --> 00:21:05,963 is that anybody in the family would never actually suffer any real, true loneliness. 481 00:21:07,499 --> 00:21:09,567 But the way that things have played out for our family, 482 00:21:09,569 --> 00:21:12,003 that's not necessarily true. 483 00:21:12,005 --> 00:21:15,006 My relationship with Meri is not the kind of relationship 484 00:21:15,008 --> 00:21:16,807 where I'm going to talk with her everyday. 485 00:21:16,809 --> 00:21:20,311 If I was to get sick, nothing would happen. I'd just be home alone sick. 486 00:21:21,113 --> 00:21:23,447 Nobody comes over here anyway. 487 00:21:23,449 --> 00:21:26,050 Um, we don't see each other. 488 00:21:26,052 --> 00:21:28,352 [Christine] It seems like the only times that we really talk 489 00:21:28,354 --> 00:21:30,788 to each other is when we have to. 490 00:21:30,790 --> 00:21:34,025 It's lonely and I really miss everybody 491 00:21:34,027 --> 00:21:36,560 when they're not around, but it's easier. 492 00:21:36,562 --> 00:21:40,264 I am pretty sure that everybody is happy 493 00:21:40,266 --> 00:21:42,166 with the fact we have COVID 494 00:21:42,168 --> 00:21:46,037 and we had this excuse of not having to see each other. 495 00:21:47,639 --> 00:21:50,508 So what are your thoughts about what you said? Pretty raw. 496 00:21:50,510 --> 00:21:53,244 Yeah, I mean, I think... 497 00:21:53,246 --> 00:21:56,113 Okay, maybe happy isn't the word, 498 00:21:56,115 --> 00:21:58,949 but like Janelle was saying, it's easier. 499 00:21:58,951 --> 00:22:01,886 Like it's easier not to have to work on out relationships. 500 00:22:01,888 --> 00:22:04,388 Because relationships are hard. 501 00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:08,092 You've got the ups and downs and so, you know, I think 502 00:22:09,261 --> 00:22:10,895 when I said, "Happy," maybe... 503 00:22:10,897 --> 00:22:13,831 Okay, maybe everybody wasn't happy about it. 504 00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:15,466 What Meri just said and Kody's really like, 505 00:22:15,468 --> 00:22:17,168 "So I'm back to hear everybody's really glad." 506 00:22:17,170 --> 00:22:20,438 That... Oh, I just wanted... Like steam [imitates explosion] 507 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,806 'Cause I think that's so extreme 508 00:22:21,808 --> 00:22:23,474 and I don't think it's true. 509 00:22:23,476 --> 00:22:26,010 I don't think anyone's happy that we have an excuse. 510 00:22:26,012 --> 00:22:27,812 - Why do you think he said that? - I don't know. 511 00:22:27,814 --> 00:22:29,246 It's the craziest thing. 512 00:22:29,248 --> 00:22:32,917 He's become so absolute. "Well, nobody wanted to be together anyway." 513 00:22:32,919 --> 00:22:35,619 I just think that's an extreme position. 514 00:22:35,621 --> 00:22:37,521 I got to imagine that being isolated, 515 00:22:37,523 --> 00:22:38,923 because all of these relationships, 516 00:22:38,925 --> 00:22:40,891 they're all very important to you. 517 00:22:40,893 --> 00:22:44,195 How did that COVID and the isolation play into that? 518 00:22:44,197 --> 00:22:46,731 I mourned. I really think it was kind of 519 00:22:46,733 --> 00:22:49,500 - a mourning period almost. - A lonely period? 520 00:22:49,502 --> 00:22:54,038 It was more than just lonely. It was just kind of like 521 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,777 -um, a sadness almost. Like a sadness. -Yeah. 522 00:22:59,779 --> 00:23:01,812 'Cause you've had these people all around you all your life. 523 00:23:01,814 --> 00:23:03,114 Yeah, and then all of a sudden, 524 00:23:03,116 --> 00:23:05,616 here they are all choosing something different. 525 00:23:05,618 --> 00:23:08,786 And our choices are so different that we can't be together. 526 00:23:08,788 --> 00:23:10,254 So Kody wasn't coming to your house at all. 527 00:23:10,256 --> 00:23:12,556 Was he even checking in on you? What was he doing at this time? 528 00:23:12,558 --> 00:23:15,192 Well, we would text and have phone calls 529 00:23:15,194 --> 00:23:19,163 you know, probably with Robyn more than anybody throughout the whole time. 530 00:23:19,165 --> 00:23:21,932 - But it wasn't like Kody coming in-- - No. 531 00:23:21,934 --> 00:23:24,368 To check in on you the way you wanted him to come in and check in on you. 532 00:23:24,370 --> 00:23:27,438 No, but that's... That's just not where our relationship is right now. 533 00:23:28,607 --> 00:23:30,374 Let's talk about Meri during this time. 534 00:23:30,376 --> 00:23:31,942 You were very alone, but so was Meri. 535 00:23:31,944 --> 00:23:33,511 And then Meri says that, you know, 536 00:23:33,513 --> 00:23:35,279 "If I got COVID, nobody would even know." 537 00:23:35,281 --> 00:23:38,783 And then, there seemed to be this like... This helplessness inside of her. 538 00:23:38,785 --> 00:23:42,086 Which kind of frustrated me because if she got COVID, she should call me. 539 00:23:42,088 --> 00:23:43,621 We're family. We're a family. 540 00:23:43,623 --> 00:23:46,023 Look, I get everything is super strained with her and Kody. 541 00:23:46,025 --> 00:23:49,059 I get that, but she's choosing a family identity, 542 00:23:49,061 --> 00:23:51,729 - so let's be a family. - Yeah. 543 00:23:51,731 --> 00:23:52,897 Does that put you in a weird place 544 00:23:52,899 --> 00:23:54,465 that she's choosing the family identity 545 00:23:54,467 --> 00:23:58,235 that Kody has kind of annexed himself from Meri 546 00:23:58,237 --> 00:24:00,104 and then you're all caught in the middle of this? 547 00:24:00,106 --> 00:24:01,806 How... How does that work in a polygamist family? 548 00:24:01,808 --> 00:24:03,941 You know, I don't think it's that we're caught in the middle. 549 00:24:03,943 --> 00:24:05,910 I do... We feel the waves 550 00:24:05,912 --> 00:24:08,012 - when one relationship isn't working. - Okay. 551 00:24:08,014 --> 00:24:09,847 It's hard to watch that happen 552 00:24:09,849 --> 00:24:14,018 because Kody doesn't necessarily bring that 553 00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:15,519 to my house when he comes there, 554 00:24:15,521 --> 00:24:18,856 but you can feel that tension going on. 555 00:24:18,858 --> 00:24:21,358 Do you ever get angry at Meri and say [grunts] 556 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,060 - No. - "You just made my life hell." 557 00:24:23,062 --> 00:24:26,363 No, it's not about sides. It's that you hurt for both of them. 558 00:24:27,666 --> 00:24:30,668 Let me ask you a question having observed relationships 559 00:24:30,670 --> 00:24:32,570 - with other sister wives, right. - Yeah. 560 00:24:32,572 --> 00:24:34,972 That relationship that he has with Meri, 561 00:24:34,974 --> 00:24:38,209 has that had any impact on your decision making? 562 00:24:38,211 --> 00:24:40,010 Oh, my heart breaks when I think about their marriage, 563 00:24:40,012 --> 00:24:42,146 and I don't want that. 564 00:24:42,148 --> 00:24:46,283 And I don't want to be in a loveless marriage. 565 00:24:46,285 --> 00:24:48,919 I have no intention of living like that. 566 00:24:48,921 --> 00:24:50,454 And if that's what my future looks like, 567 00:24:50,456 --> 00:24:51,822 I'm not going to live that way. 568 00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:53,324 [Sukanya] Coming up... 569 00:24:53,326 --> 00:24:56,293 Did you and Kody ever have an honest conversation about the cat-fishing? 570 00:24:56,295 --> 00:24:58,162 I thought that we did. 571 00:24:58,164 --> 00:25:02,066 You emotionally have left and abandoned them in some ways, right? 572 00:25:02,068 --> 00:25:04,468 Well [scoffs] abandoned. Please. 573 00:25:05,704 --> 00:25:07,104 - Well... - Take the word back. 574 00:25:07,706 --> 00:25:09,640 She was leaving my ass. 575 00:25:14,646 --> 00:25:16,714 [Sukanya] This past year, Kody and Meri celebrated 576 00:25:16,716 --> 00:25:18,315 their 30th wedding anniversary. 577 00:25:18,317 --> 00:25:20,184 Let's take a look back through the years. 578 00:25:20,186 --> 00:25:21,252 Hi. 579 00:25:22,587 --> 00:25:25,222 [Meri] I was 19 and he was 22. 580 00:25:25,224 --> 00:25:29,727 From the time that we met to the time that we got married was six months. 581 00:25:29,729 --> 00:25:31,395 I guess I was just young and in love. 582 00:25:32,097 --> 00:25:34,131 We had a big reception. 583 00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:36,467 [Kody] We danced and she bit my finger when I was trying to-- 584 00:25:36,469 --> 00:25:39,503 [Meri] Because you shoved cake clear down my face. 585 00:25:42,974 --> 00:25:45,175 So, I guess I should bring something up. [sighs] 586 00:25:52,817 --> 00:25:55,352 I got into this place where I was 587 00:25:55,354 --> 00:25:58,422 talking to different people on social media 588 00:25:58,424 --> 00:26:03,460 and I got into this situation talking to one person 589 00:26:03,462 --> 00:26:08,098 who really made me trust him. 590 00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:14,371 He was saying really kind things. Flattering things. 591 00:26:14,373 --> 00:26:16,340 This is really, really confusing 592 00:26:16,342 --> 00:26:19,476 because I was really caring about him too. 593 00:26:22,847 --> 00:26:24,214 Yeah. I wanted to meet him. 594 00:26:24,816 --> 00:26:26,283 He never would meet me. 595 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,122 I started looking into him or who he said he was 596 00:26:32,124 --> 00:26:37,061 and there was way too many... Way too many holes. 597 00:26:37,063 --> 00:26:39,863 I thought I was talking to a man online. 598 00:26:41,399 --> 00:26:42,466 It wasn't a man. 599 00:26:43,668 --> 00:26:48,505 It was a woman pretending to be a man. 600 00:26:48,507 --> 00:26:52,843 They really started pushing that I was not happy here. 601 00:26:52,845 --> 00:26:54,979 The struggle I think that I have with it 602 00:26:54,981 --> 00:26:58,315 is that I got shut out because of him. 603 00:26:58,317 --> 00:27:00,517 That you didn't want to be out of the family. 604 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:03,087 You just wanted out of your relationship with me. 605 00:27:05,090 --> 00:27:08,659 The old stuff wasn't working. It died. 606 00:27:08,661 --> 00:27:11,929 Now we're in a place where we have to rediscover. 607 00:27:11,931 --> 00:27:13,564 You'll be okay. I promise. 608 00:27:14,566 --> 00:27:16,367 You might just have to hold my hand through it. 609 00:27:16,369 --> 00:27:19,570 Oh [chuckles] would that make you feel safe? 610 00:27:19,572 --> 00:27:21,972 I got to have both hands on the wheel to make you safe. 611 00:27:21,974 --> 00:27:24,208 Damn, anything to get away from holding my hand. 612 00:27:24,210 --> 00:27:28,912 I want to be able to trust him and him trust me. 613 00:27:28,914 --> 00:27:32,216 I'm not in a place where I want a romantic relationship. 614 00:27:34,285 --> 00:27:36,420 Robyn, stop. Stop defending Meri. 615 00:27:36,422 --> 00:27:38,822 Stop acting like you're not getting the [bleep] end of the stick here. 616 00:27:38,824 --> 00:27:41,925 - I'm not... I'm not. - Listen, this is pissing me off. 617 00:27:41,927 --> 00:27:44,461 - She can take what everybody else doesn't want-- - Stop. No. 618 00:27:44,463 --> 00:27:46,163 Instead of you taking the [bleep] end. 619 00:27:46,165 --> 00:27:49,033 No, I don't... I don't... Will you stop? 620 00:27:49,035 --> 00:27:51,301 I'm so angry I almost can't talk. 621 00:27:51,303 --> 00:27:53,103 For all my marriage with Meri, 622 00:27:53,105 --> 00:27:57,174 I felt like she unloads her emotions 623 00:27:57,176 --> 00:27:59,543 into a burden that I'm supposed to carry. 624 00:27:59,545 --> 00:28:01,045 I'm not carrying this burden. 625 00:28:01,047 --> 00:28:04,281 'Cause if Meri and I really wanted to be together, we would. 626 00:28:06,484 --> 00:28:09,753 What was your relationship like with Kody when you first met? 627 00:28:09,755 --> 00:28:11,021 We were very much in love. 628 00:28:12,290 --> 00:28:15,726 So, you're doing great. Janelle enters the picture. 629 00:28:15,728 --> 00:28:19,897 - Mmm-hmm. - Give me a picture of what this was looking like. 630 00:28:19,899 --> 00:28:24,301 So when Janelle came into the picture, it was a struggle for me. 631 00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:28,672 Because now he's with somebody else. 632 00:28:28,674 --> 00:28:29,973 Was it jealousy? Was it-- 633 00:28:29,975 --> 00:28:31,442 - Oh, absolutely. - Did you not know how to manage it? 634 00:28:31,444 --> 00:28:33,477 Of course. Of course there's jealousy. 635 00:28:33,479 --> 00:28:36,246 People ask all the time, "How can there not be any jealousies?" 636 00:28:36,248 --> 00:28:37,715 Like, we never said there wasn't. 637 00:28:37,717 --> 00:28:39,483 And I didn't know how to handle it. 638 00:28:39,485 --> 00:28:41,151 And he didn't know how to handle me. 639 00:28:41,153 --> 00:28:43,487 And she didn't know what the heck was going on. [laughs] 640 00:28:43,489 --> 00:28:44,922 You know, and I think all three of us 641 00:28:44,924 --> 00:28:48,559 had different ideals going into it of how it was gonna be. 642 00:28:48,561 --> 00:28:50,160 - [Sukanya] Okay. - And it wasn't. 643 00:28:50,162 --> 00:28:53,263 And then, you know, fast forward, Christine comes in the picture. 644 00:28:53,265 --> 00:28:54,598 And how did that change the dynamic? 645 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,334 That was a struggle for me as well. 646 00:28:57,336 --> 00:29:01,305 I actually had a harder time when Christine came. 647 00:29:01,307 --> 00:29:02,372 [Sukanya] Why? 648 00:29:02,374 --> 00:29:03,440 I don't know. 649 00:29:03,442 --> 00:29:05,075 [Sukanya] And now there's Robyn. 650 00:29:05,077 --> 00:29:08,178 And every time you see him 651 00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:11,782 having a functional relationship with Christine, 652 00:29:11,784 --> 00:29:14,685 a functioning relationship with Robyn, and... 653 00:29:14,687 --> 00:29:17,621 And you're not having that relationship. 654 00:29:17,623 --> 00:29:21,859 I was having the relationship with Kody back then. 655 00:29:21,861 --> 00:29:25,429 I mean, we had, you know, we had our arguments, we had our difficulties. 656 00:29:25,431 --> 00:29:26,930 And we would work through them. 657 00:29:26,932 --> 00:29:30,634 - It was definitely a roller-coaster relationship. - [Sukanya laughs] Yeah. 658 00:29:30,636 --> 00:29:33,036 All right so, Kody, tell me about your relationship with Meri. 659 00:29:33,038 --> 00:29:36,607 Um, there's just nothing to talk about really. 660 00:29:36,609 --> 00:29:38,542 - Wow, that's hard to hear. - [Kody] We were just, like, friends. 661 00:29:38,544 --> 00:29:39,977 I mean, listen. 662 00:29:39,979 --> 00:29:42,179 There was a hardness in our marriage 663 00:29:42,181 --> 00:29:45,082 that was so difficult and so antagonistic, 664 00:29:45,084 --> 00:29:46,650 I didn't know why we were in it. 665 00:29:46,652 --> 00:29:48,852 It took a long time, a lot of counselling, 666 00:29:48,854 --> 00:29:51,188 as we go through all of this for me to finally go, 667 00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:54,424 "Meri, I don't... I just don't see us getting back together." 668 00:29:54,426 --> 00:29:56,026 And why aren't we getting back together? 669 00:29:56,028 --> 00:29:58,529 Because we will go back to the way we were before. 670 00:29:58,531 --> 00:30:01,398 There's just no chance that I ever want that again. 671 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,966 But why not leave her at that point? 672 00:30:02,968 --> 00:30:04,368 It's a double standard. 673 00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:06,403 They can leave whenever they want. 674 00:30:06,405 --> 00:30:07,738 I can't. 675 00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:10,240 It is not a double standard because you emotionally have left 676 00:30:10,242 --> 00:30:12,876 and abandoned them in some ways, right? 677 00:30:12,878 --> 00:30:15,212 Well... [scoffs] Abandoned? Please. 678 00:30:16,447 --> 00:30:17,881 - Well-- - Take the word back. 679 00:30:17,883 --> 00:30:20,818 - [Sukanya] Okay. - Because I take offence to that word of "abandonment." 680 00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:22,886 - [Sukanya] Emotional-- - When Meri had an affair, 681 00:30:23,822 --> 00:30:25,923 she was leaving my ass. 682 00:30:25,925 --> 00:30:27,558 'Cause she was like, "I am done with this. 683 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,693 I am done with you. I am done." 684 00:30:29,695 --> 00:30:32,362 She made it clear to everybody that she was getting out of there. 685 00:30:33,131 --> 00:30:34,231 She was done with us. 686 00:30:34,233 --> 00:30:35,632 And she can't admit it now. 687 00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:37,167 'Cause we rallied. 688 00:30:37,169 --> 00:30:40,003 We circled the wagons as a family to protect her 689 00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:43,240 when she realized that she'd been duped. 690 00:30:43,242 --> 00:30:44,942 She was deceived. She was leaving. 691 00:30:44,944 --> 00:30:46,243 She found something better. 692 00:30:46,245 --> 00:30:49,847 She was leaving me for a better, richer man. 693 00:30:49,849 --> 00:30:55,152 And, because we did that, in her own mind she doesn't even realized what happened. 694 00:30:55,154 --> 00:30:59,356 She sees herself as a victim, which is true, 695 00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:02,059 but that she had done nothing wrong. 696 00:31:02,061 --> 00:31:04,595 And she would have never even been the victim 697 00:31:04,597 --> 00:31:07,798 if she wouldn't have done something wrong. 698 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,235 Did you and Kody ever have an honest conversation about the catfishing? 699 00:31:11,836 --> 00:31:13,804 I thought that we did. 700 00:31:13,806 --> 00:31:18,842 And I thought that he... That he knew where I was coming from. 701 00:31:18,844 --> 00:31:22,746 You know, like how that all happened and what happened. 702 00:31:22,748 --> 00:31:24,548 Well, he thought you were leaving him for another person. 703 00:31:24,550 --> 00:31:25,716 - Right, he did. - [Sukanya] Yeah. 704 00:31:25,718 --> 00:31:28,352 - Yeah, and I knew-- - So he felt betrayed right there. 705 00:31:28,354 --> 00:31:29,786 [Meri] Absolutely, and I get that. 706 00:31:29,788 --> 00:31:31,255 I wasn't leaving. 707 00:31:31,257 --> 00:31:33,390 But during that time, 708 00:31:33,392 --> 00:31:36,193 because I was very much in a dark place, 709 00:31:37,028 --> 00:31:39,363 I considered all my options. 710 00:31:40,765 --> 00:31:43,667 Just because I was trying to figure out what I needed to do. 711 00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:45,702 But I feel like Kody took it like that. 712 00:31:45,704 --> 00:31:47,537 [Meri] Oh, he definitely did. 713 00:31:47,539 --> 00:31:49,339 Did I start talking to this person? 714 00:31:50,041 --> 00:31:51,775 Absolutely, I did. 715 00:31:51,777 --> 00:31:53,677 Did I think that I was talking to a friend? 716 00:31:53,679 --> 00:31:55,078 Absolutely. 717 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,181 It literally was not just, uh... 718 00:31:58,183 --> 00:32:01,785 Um... "Okay, well, I'm gonna meet some dude online 719 00:32:01,787 --> 00:32:05,155 and, uh, fall in love and want to leave my family." 720 00:32:05,157 --> 00:32:10,694 A lot of people like to look at that as the defining moment in the fracture 721 00:32:10,696 --> 00:32:13,497 and in mine and Kody's relationship. 722 00:32:14,532 --> 00:32:16,867 And it wasn't. 723 00:32:16,869 --> 00:32:22,439 Did he say, "I have an issue of trust with you now," as a result of it? 724 00:32:22,441 --> 00:32:24,141 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 725 00:32:25,977 --> 00:32:28,645 I'm not ever gonna be in a conjugal relationship with her. 726 00:32:28,647 --> 00:32:31,949 Because I'm not gonna go through that emotional torture ever again. 727 00:32:31,951 --> 00:32:33,884 When did the physicality go out? 728 00:32:33,886 --> 00:32:36,219 I don't know. Maybe a decade. 729 00:32:36,221 --> 00:32:37,654 - A decade ago? - [Meri chuckles] Yeah. 730 00:32:37,656 --> 00:32:40,257 You're telling me that you don't feel safe with Meri? 731 00:32:44,896 --> 00:32:46,596 [producer] All right, everybody settle please. Any time. 732 00:32:46,598 --> 00:32:48,298 It's been kind of interesting watching, 733 00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:50,467 well, so many moments between you guys 734 00:32:50,469 --> 00:32:52,202 - throughout the years. - Mmm-hmm. 735 00:32:52,204 --> 00:32:54,905 But the one moment that really stuck out for me was 736 00:32:54,907 --> 00:32:57,708 - the 30th anniversary date. - Yeah. 737 00:32:57,710 --> 00:33:01,345 There was some really heartbreaking moments. 738 00:33:01,347 --> 00:33:03,280 - I wanna take a look at it with you. - [Meri] Okay. 739 00:33:03,282 --> 00:33:06,350 And then, I wanna get your opinion on what was happening there, 740 00:33:06,352 --> 00:33:07,818 what you were trying to get across, 741 00:33:07,820 --> 00:33:10,220 and where you thought Kody's head was. 742 00:33:10,222 --> 00:33:11,388 Okay. 743 00:33:12,957 --> 00:33:16,326 There's just been nothing going on between me and Meri. 744 00:33:17,962 --> 00:33:22,032 And she interacts with family for the holidays and the birthdays. 745 00:33:22,034 --> 00:33:23,333 We get together once in a while. 746 00:33:23,335 --> 00:33:25,235 I see Meri once in a blue moon. 747 00:33:25,237 --> 00:33:28,271 We quit dating and that's just probably 748 00:33:28,273 --> 00:33:31,775 because I quit calling her to say let's go do something. 749 00:33:31,777 --> 00:33:34,211 You and I have not been out together 750 00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:37,414 since last year's anniversary. 751 00:33:37,416 --> 00:33:39,783 Which is fine, it is what it is. 752 00:33:39,785 --> 00:33:41,718 Are you broken-hearted by that? 753 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,854 Is it... Is it troubling you? 754 00:33:43,856 --> 00:33:45,922 I've been waiting for you, honestly. 755 00:33:45,924 --> 00:33:48,158 - And I'm not coming. - I know that. 756 00:33:49,193 --> 00:33:51,428 I will ask him to come over. 757 00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:54,164 "Hey, come over. Let's go do something." 758 00:33:54,166 --> 00:33:55,365 He says no. 759 00:33:55,367 --> 00:33:56,833 When I ask, he says no. 760 00:33:56,835 --> 00:33:59,236 - table this-- - Do you know 761 00:33:59,238 --> 00:34:02,339 that every time you put your hand on my hand... 762 00:34:04,042 --> 00:34:05,575 how I feel? 763 00:34:05,577 --> 00:34:07,377 I just wish you knew. 764 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,883 My discussion with Meri right now isn't about me telling Meri 765 00:34:12,885 --> 00:34:15,685 that she has to have a divorce with me, that she has to leave. 766 00:34:15,687 --> 00:34:17,988 I'm not doing that. I will never do that. 767 00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:19,689 My faith doesn't allow me to. 768 00:34:19,691 --> 00:34:23,994 My conscience doesn't allow me to. 769 00:34:23,996 --> 00:34:26,396 And because I haven't done that, 770 00:34:26,398 --> 00:34:28,698 there's always a chance that we might actually 771 00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:30,667 get back together into full fellowship. 772 00:34:30,669 --> 00:34:34,237 Like what we have done in the past 30 years or not, 773 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:36,606 it's 30 years. 774 00:34:38,042 --> 00:34:41,978 This is not something I'm willing to walk away from. 775 00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:44,114 - The relation-- - Meri, I'm not motivated by what we've had 776 00:34:44,116 --> 00:34:46,683 to sit... Sit here and talk about saving it, though. 777 00:34:46,685 --> 00:34:48,351 Nobody is stuck with me. 778 00:34:48,353 --> 00:34:49,453 And they can all leave. 779 00:34:49,455 --> 00:34:51,088 - And they-- - Well don't say that. 780 00:34:51,090 --> 00:34:54,524 - [Kody] No-- - Because that makes people feel like you don't want them. 781 00:34:54,526 --> 00:34:57,594 I want to stay and he still keeps saying it. 782 00:34:57,596 --> 00:35:01,398 And I'm just like, "Dude, do you not see? 783 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,533 And do you not care if you do see?" 784 00:35:06,771 --> 00:35:08,672 Did you ever get an answer to that question? 785 00:35:08,674 --> 00:35:10,373 I think he sees it. 786 00:35:10,375 --> 00:35:13,844 He and I have definitely had more conversations obviously since then. 787 00:35:13,846 --> 00:35:16,179 - [Sukanya] Yeah. - And, you know, I think he sees it. 788 00:35:16,181 --> 00:35:18,515 And I... I know where he is. 789 00:35:18,517 --> 00:35:20,784 - And I think he knows where I am. - Where are you? 790 00:35:20,786 --> 00:35:23,887 I mean, from where I am, like... 791 00:35:23,889 --> 00:35:28,225 It's been, like, 31 years now that, you know, we've been married. 792 00:35:28,227 --> 00:35:30,827 And, you know, I'm still committed. 793 00:35:30,829 --> 00:35:32,929 I've made my choice. 794 00:35:32,931 --> 00:35:33,997 - [Sukanya] Yeah. - I'm still here. 795 00:35:33,999 --> 00:35:35,899 And I do still have hope. 796 00:35:35,901 --> 00:35:38,001 - Even-- - So you feel like there is 797 00:35:38,003 --> 00:35:43,540 a future for you and Kody as a married couple in full fellowship together? 798 00:35:43,542 --> 00:35:45,408 I want there to be. 799 00:35:45,410 --> 00:35:48,512 - But there hasn't been, all these years? - [Meri] Correct. 800 00:35:48,514 --> 00:35:52,249 What keeps you emotionally invested in this relationship? 801 00:35:53,284 --> 00:35:54,551 Because I love him. 802 00:35:55,453 --> 00:35:58,321 Because when I pray, when I meditate, 803 00:35:58,323 --> 00:36:02,726 because I have, you know, I believe in a God and when I pray... 804 00:36:02,728 --> 00:36:06,429 And I'm like, "Okay, guide me. What am I supposed to be doing with my life?" 805 00:36:06,431 --> 00:36:12,435 It is... I just feel peace when I think about staying in the family. 806 00:36:12,437 --> 00:36:13,703 Because that's what I want. 807 00:36:13,705 --> 00:36:16,540 - That's what I know is right for me. - [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm. 808 00:36:16,542 --> 00:36:19,643 It's like she is still part of the family. 809 00:36:19,645 --> 00:36:20,877 - But not-- - The larger family? 810 00:36:20,879 --> 00:36:22,846 Yeah, the larger family. But I'm not ever gonna be 811 00:36:22,848 --> 00:36:24,714 in a conjugal relationship with her. 812 00:36:24,716 --> 00:36:28,018 Because I'm not gonna go through that emotional torture ever again. 813 00:36:28,020 --> 00:36:29,653 And I'm not trying to make Meri sound bad. 814 00:36:29,655 --> 00:36:31,288 It's just a bad match. 815 00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:34,658 Listen, when I say certain things, 816 00:36:34,660 --> 00:36:36,893 I'm just trying to find a way to be honest... 817 00:36:38,162 --> 00:36:39,863 without being cruel. 818 00:36:39,865 --> 00:36:41,598 It's one of those... One of those things. 819 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,034 If we weren't in plural marriage, 820 00:36:44,036 --> 00:36:47,637 or felt religiously bound to stay together, 821 00:36:49,173 --> 00:36:51,441 I don't... You know, things would have been a lot different 822 00:36:51,443 --> 00:36:53,577 a long time ago probably. 823 00:36:55,346 --> 00:36:59,149 We'll keep the best kind of relationship that we possibly can. 824 00:36:59,151 --> 00:37:00,750 But I'm not telling her to kick rocks down the road. 825 00:37:00,752 --> 00:37:03,286 I'm just telling her that she can still be part of the family. 826 00:37:03,288 --> 00:37:04,754 We can... We can work this out. 827 00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:09,159 So it seems like you're both in this space... 828 00:37:10,461 --> 00:37:13,163 living friends. 829 00:37:13,898 --> 00:37:15,365 But I don't understand it. 830 00:37:15,367 --> 00:37:17,100 - I don't understand-- - Help me, I'm... I'm... 831 00:37:17,102 --> 00:37:18,435 - Listen. - I'm in a monogamous relationship. 832 00:37:18,437 --> 00:37:20,003 - Right. - And I know a lot of the viewers are like, 833 00:37:20,005 --> 00:37:21,438 "Okay, I'm trying to understand." 834 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,573 I... I would think that physicality 835 00:37:23,575 --> 00:37:26,142 would be a big part in your relationship, 836 00:37:26,144 --> 00:37:27,477 - [Meri] Right. - In needs, in wants, 837 00:37:27,479 --> 00:37:29,813 - in desires. - Absolutely. Absolutely. 838 00:37:29,815 --> 00:37:32,882 I mean, and that's definitely something that I miss. 839 00:37:32,884 --> 00:37:36,453 You know, I miss emotional intimacy with him. 840 00:37:36,455 --> 00:37:38,622 - Right. - You know, I miss conversations with him. 841 00:37:38,624 --> 00:37:40,023 I miss... 842 00:37:40,025 --> 00:37:42,525 - [chuckles] Physical intimacy with him. You know? - [Sukanya] Yeah. 843 00:37:42,527 --> 00:37:44,861 Like, I would love it if he would hold my hand. 844 00:37:44,863 --> 00:37:46,196 - [Sukanya] Yeah. - You know? 845 00:37:46,198 --> 00:37:48,031 But that's just not where we are. 846 00:37:48,033 --> 00:37:49,899 But when did the physicality go out? 847 00:37:50,635 --> 00:37:52,669 It's... I don't know. 848 00:37:52,671 --> 00:37:54,437 Maybe a decade. 849 00:37:54,439 --> 00:37:56,139 - A decade ago. - [Meri chuckles] Yeah. 850 00:37:56,141 --> 00:37:58,108 - Yeah. - [Sukanya] So I'm gonna go back to-- 851 00:37:58,110 --> 00:38:00,677 [laughs] Listen, we're getting, like, really... 852 00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:02,812 I don't know how much we want to get into... 853 00:38:02,814 --> 00:38:05,382 - Into this. - Are you willing to wait forever for Kody 854 00:38:05,384 --> 00:38:10,320 to come full circle and be in full fellowship with you? 855 00:38:10,921 --> 00:38:12,956 I have hope that he will. 856 00:38:12,958 --> 00:38:14,858 And also, if he never does... 857 00:38:16,427 --> 00:38:19,629 then, I'm gonna create my own peace and happiness 858 00:38:19,631 --> 00:38:22,232 within the family relationships that I do have. 859 00:38:22,234 --> 00:38:24,768 - [Sukanya] So it's the larger family? - Yeah. 860 00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:27,337 It's the larger family that's keeping you here 861 00:38:27,339 --> 00:38:30,707 with the hopes that Kody will one day be in full fellowship with you? 862 00:38:30,709 --> 00:38:32,008 Like, this is my family. 863 00:38:32,010 --> 00:38:33,777 - [Sukanya] Yeah. - Like, I don't understand... 864 00:38:33,779 --> 00:38:37,180 I literally don't understand people who think, 865 00:38:37,182 --> 00:38:40,617 "Well, just because you don't have this relationship with Kody, 866 00:38:40,619 --> 00:38:42,519 why don't you just leave? 867 00:38:42,521 --> 00:38:44,254 Why don't you just leave?" 868 00:38:44,256 --> 00:38:46,156 Like, because I don't want to. 869 00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:47,824 Like, I don't want to. 870 00:38:47,826 --> 00:38:52,529 I don't... Like, it doesn't make sense to me when people ask me that all the time. 871 00:38:52,531 --> 00:38:54,364 Well, the reason why I ask that 872 00:38:54,366 --> 00:38:58,134 is because we see Christine sort of unravelling as well. 873 00:38:58,136 --> 00:38:59,869 Because of the lack of intimacy-- 874 00:38:59,871 --> 00:39:02,238 - Sure. - and romantic relationship 875 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,974 - within her own committed relationship to Kody. - Right. 876 00:39:04,976 --> 00:39:09,079 And how that is a non-negotiable thing for her. 877 00:39:09,081 --> 00:39:11,581 And then, we have you. Right? 878 00:39:11,583 --> 00:39:13,616 - Right. - [Sukanya] Who has been in this situation 879 00:39:13,618 --> 00:39:15,852 for the last 10 years with Kody, 880 00:39:15,854 --> 00:39:19,856 who is still fully committed to Kody and the family. 881 00:39:19,858 --> 00:39:22,525 So it... It... It kind of doesn't make sense. 882 00:39:22,527 --> 00:39:24,060 - Right. - So... 883 00:39:24,062 --> 00:39:28,064 - That's why people have questions. - The only thing that I can say 884 00:39:28,066 --> 00:39:31,601 is, between Christine and I, we just... 885 00:39:31,603 --> 00:39:33,103 Like, I don't know what's in her head. 886 00:39:33,105 --> 00:39:35,038 I don't know what she's thinking. 887 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,073 All I can say is we're two different people, 888 00:39:37,075 --> 00:39:38,775 and we have two different sets of values, 889 00:39:38,777 --> 00:39:40,243 and we have two different... 890 00:39:40,245 --> 00:39:41,244 I don't know. 891 00:39:41,246 --> 00:39:42,612 Like, we're just different people. 892 00:39:43,314 --> 00:39:44,514 There are other wives that... 893 00:39:45,916 --> 00:39:47,384 - Meri, for instance-- - [Christine] I know. 894 00:39:47,386 --> 00:39:49,152 - I don't know how she does it. - that's been very clear-- 895 00:39:49,154 --> 00:39:51,955 - [Christine] I know. - that she has not been intimate with Kody 896 00:39:51,957 --> 00:39:53,957 for the last... More than 10 years. 897 00:39:53,959 --> 00:39:56,226 I know. I don't know how she does it. 898 00:39:56,927 --> 00:39:58,194 I don't know how she does it. 899 00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:01,931 I think we just both have... 900 00:40:03,667 --> 00:40:04,734 I don't know, she does... 901 00:40:05,770 --> 00:40:08,705 I guess she's more fine with it than I am. 902 00:40:08,707 --> 00:40:13,176 It seems like Meri, looking back at that clip especially, 903 00:40:13,178 --> 00:40:16,946 she does wanna have a romantic relationship with you. 904 00:40:16,948 --> 00:40:18,348 She does wanna heal. 905 00:40:18,350 --> 00:40:21,317 But there's a point where intimacy is just damage. 906 00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:24,921 It... It... It's misleading. 907 00:40:24,923 --> 00:40:28,358 It... It's an... To... To have intimacy in a relationship 908 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,462 where there... There is no real safety. 909 00:40:32,997 --> 00:40:34,030 Oh. 910 00:40:34,032 --> 00:40:35,064 Yeah. 911 00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:37,734 I'm not going there. 912 00:40:37,736 --> 00:40:40,570 You're telling me that you don't feel safe with Meri? 913 00:40:40,572 --> 00:40:41,838 No, and I never will again. 914 00:40:42,473 --> 00:40:43,740 I will be her friend. 915 00:40:43,742 --> 00:40:46,042 - Wow. - [Kody] I will do what I can to protect her. 916 00:40:46,044 --> 00:40:49,012 We'll build a house for her out on Coyote Pass. 917 00:40:49,014 --> 00:40:52,615 But I'm never gonna feel safe in an intimate place. 918 00:40:52,617 --> 00:40:54,617 She hurt you to the core. 919 00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:57,687 She hurt you to a place where it cannot be fixed. 920 00:40:57,689 --> 00:40:59,322 Is that what you're telling me? 921 00:41:00,257 --> 00:41:02,592 And that wasn't from the catfishing. 922 00:41:02,594 --> 00:41:05,495 It was just... The catfish just woke me up out of the, um... 923 00:41:05,497 --> 00:41:07,197 Out of the daze I guess. 924 00:41:09,867 --> 00:41:12,268 So Meri's committed to staying with the family. 925 00:41:12,270 --> 00:41:14,571 She has a relationship with the larger family, 926 00:41:14,573 --> 00:41:17,073 the kids, Robyn, and-- 927 00:41:17,075 --> 00:41:18,408 And a friendship with me. 928 00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:20,543 [Sukanya] And a friendship with you. 929 00:41:20,545 --> 00:41:24,481 Is... Is that gonna be enough for all of you at this moment? At this time? 930 00:41:24,483 --> 00:41:26,816 I don't think that's enough for anybody. 931 00:41:26,818 --> 00:41:28,351 But everybody makes their choices. 932 00:41:30,955 --> 00:41:33,790 [Sukanya] Next time on Sister Wives: One on One. 933 00:41:33,792 --> 00:41:36,826 I'll do whatever it takes to get my kids back together with everybody. 934 00:41:36,828 --> 00:41:41,097 You were asking why our nanny was able to hang out with our kids. 935 00:41:41,099 --> 00:41:43,933 What does the nanny do? 936 00:41:43,935 --> 00:41:45,602 Do you feel like you're an easy target? 937 00:41:45,604 --> 00:41:48,037 Oh, yeah. I get along with Kody. [chuckles] 938 00:41:48,039 --> 00:41:49,539 There's a sort of pecking order. 939 00:41:49,541 --> 00:41:51,641 And Robyn's like, "Why are you this way?" 940 00:41:51,643 --> 00:41:53,510 You really are the only one 941 00:41:53,512 --> 00:41:56,346 that's having a fully functioning relationship with Kody. 942 00:41:56,348 --> 00:41:59,148 That must bother them. 943 00:41:59,150 --> 00:42:00,283 It makes me angry. 944 00:42:05,422 --> 00:42:08,258 [crying] I'm not gonna talk to you. 945 00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:11,194 I don't want polygamy because I don't believe in it for me anymore. 946 00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:12,295 We've got these great memories. 947 00:42:12,297 --> 00:42:13,429 And we've got these beautiful children. 948 00:42:13,431 --> 00:42:14,664 And you hate polygamy. 949 00:42:14,666 --> 00:42:15,865 What the crap? 950 00:42:15,867 --> 00:42:18,301 Are we ever gonna have an intimate marriage again? 951 00:42:18,303 --> 00:42:20,470 And he just said, "Probably not." 952 00:42:20,472 --> 00:42:21,905 I didn't want to be intimate. 953 00:42:21,907 --> 00:42:24,774 Because I had somebody who was stabbing me in the back.