1
00:00:01,301 --> 00:00:02,968
[Janelle] We've been
so divided with Covid,
2
00:00:02,970 --> 00:00:04,670
I am beginning to worry
that we may not recover.
3
00:00:04,672 --> 00:00:06,538
[sobs]
4
00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:09,908
[Sukanya] This has been the most
difficult season of Sister Wives yet.
5
00:00:09,910 --> 00:00:12,177
What's best for the group
is more important.
6
00:00:12,179 --> 00:00:14,246
I guess not everybody agrees
with that.
7
00:00:14,248 --> 00:00:17,082
The whole family's
gonna fall apart.
8
00:00:17,084 --> 00:00:18,550
[Sukanya] Faced with conflict...
9
00:00:18,552 --> 00:00:20,953
- I have been waiting for you.
- And I'm not coming.
10
00:00:20,955 --> 00:00:22,821
Meri, I can't be in a marriage
with Kody any more.
11
00:00:22,823 --> 00:00:24,890
I have been moved
out of my house.
12
00:00:24,892 --> 00:00:26,158
[crying]
13
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,893
[Sukanya] ...and divided
over choices,
14
00:00:27,895 --> 00:00:29,595
the Browns have struggled.
15
00:00:29,597 --> 00:00:31,930
I don't give a [bleep] any more.
16
00:00:31,932 --> 00:00:33,432
Where does that leave us?
17
00:00:34,868 --> 00:00:36,969
[Sukanya] Over the next
three episodes,
18
00:00:36,971 --> 00:00:39,538
I sit down individually
with Kody,
19
00:00:39,540 --> 00:00:43,142
Janelle, Robyn, Christine,
and Meri,
20
00:00:43,144 --> 00:00:46,712
to talk about the most
contentious events in their lives.
21
00:00:46,714 --> 00:00:48,280
Tell me about
your relationship with Meri.
22
00:00:48,282 --> 00:00:49,882
There's just nothing
to talk about.
23
00:00:49,884 --> 00:00:52,418
Why don't you just leave?
Because I don't want to.
24
00:00:52,420 --> 00:00:54,186
You emotionally have
abandoned them.
25
00:00:54,188 --> 00:00:55,954
Abandoned? Please.
26
00:00:55,956 --> 00:00:57,623
Meri had an affair.
27
00:00:57,625 --> 00:01:00,092
His negativity is kind of
making me crazy.
28
00:01:00,094 --> 00:01:01,827
There's also been a lot of pain.
29
00:01:01,829 --> 00:01:04,196
Are we ever gonna have
an intimate marriage again?
30
00:01:04,198 --> 00:01:06,465
He just said, "Probably not."
31
00:01:06,467 --> 00:01:08,700
I am angry.
32
00:01:08,702 --> 00:01:11,637
[sighs] I'm devastated
by Christine's choice.
33
00:01:11,639 --> 00:01:13,005
We've got these great memories
34
00:01:13,007 --> 00:01:15,240
and we've got these beautiful
children, and you hate polygamy?
35
00:01:15,242 --> 00:01:16,341
What the crap?
36
00:01:16,343 --> 00:01:19,278
If he wants to give up,
he can give up.
37
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,847
If he doesn't love plural
marriage, what does he do?
38
00:01:21,849 --> 00:01:23,615
Where are you and Kody
right now?
39
00:01:23,617 --> 00:01:24,950
We're completely separate.
40
00:01:24,952 --> 00:01:26,852
We are no longer together.
41
00:01:26,854 --> 00:01:28,120
Kody and I are divorced.
42
00:01:29,522 --> 00:01:32,391
I'm Sukanya Krishnan,
and this is
43
00:01:32,393 --> 00:01:34,259
[Sukanya reading]
44
00:01:35,895 --> 00:01:37,729
[Kody] What a sunrise.
45
00:01:37,731 --> 00:01:39,565
Anyway, I've been up for a bit,
46
00:01:39,567 --> 00:01:42,868
'cause I'm actually going
to a hotel
47
00:01:42,870 --> 00:01:47,005
in Flagstaff, to meet with
a former news anchor.
48
00:01:47,007 --> 00:01:48,974
I am...
49
00:01:50,043 --> 00:01:51,443
not looking forward to it,
50
00:01:51,445 --> 00:01:52,778
but to be honest,
mentally prepared.
51
00:01:52,780 --> 00:01:54,413
I'm always a little bit nervous
52
00:01:54,415 --> 00:01:57,049
for these shows,
and always a little bit...
53
00:01:57,051 --> 00:01:58,450
I don't know, sort of keyed up.
54
00:01:58,452 --> 00:02:01,153
It can be a lot, it can
be hard and it can be heavy.
55
00:02:01,155 --> 00:02:04,823
We're not doing this together,
which normally we do.
56
00:02:09,028 --> 00:02:10,796
[man] Just bring
your necklace up.
57
00:02:12,899 --> 00:02:13,899
Marker.
58
00:02:14,701 --> 00:02:18,337
In five, four, three...
59
00:02:18,339 --> 00:02:19,705
- It's great to see you.
- Thank you.
60
00:02:19,707 --> 00:02:21,073
And it's great to meet you
in person.
61
00:02:21,075 --> 00:02:22,875
And to be in person after Covid.
62
00:02:22,877 --> 00:02:25,811
Yeah. I know, right?
This is, like, this is normal.
63
00:02:25,813 --> 00:02:27,713
This is kind of
a stroke of normal.
64
00:02:27,715 --> 00:02:29,982
A little bit of normal,
a little bit of normal.
65
00:02:29,984 --> 00:02:31,850
It seems like the family's
been through a lot.
66
00:02:31,852 --> 00:02:33,352
- Yes, for sure.
- Yeah.
67
00:02:33,354 --> 00:02:34,520
We definitely...
68
00:02:34,522 --> 00:02:37,256
We have, like, I think
probably, like, most families
69
00:02:37,258 --> 00:02:38,790
or most people
across the country
70
00:02:38,792 --> 00:02:40,159
such varying opinions
71
00:02:40,161 --> 00:02:43,529
on risk,
and risk tolerance, and...
72
00:02:43,531 --> 00:02:45,564
and trying to make it work
for everybody.
73
00:02:45,566 --> 00:02:48,500
I feel like you, um,
74
00:02:48,502 --> 00:02:50,502
are sometimes the conscience
of the family.
75
00:02:50,504 --> 00:02:53,872
And pre-Covid, you talked
about family distance.
76
00:02:53,874 --> 00:02:55,807
You had this big
family meeting together.
77
00:02:55,809 --> 00:02:58,544
And you wanted
all the sister wives
78
00:02:58,546 --> 00:02:59,778
- and Kody...
- Mmm-hmm.
79
00:02:59,780 --> 00:03:02,080
to have a real,
candid conversation.
80
00:03:02,082 --> 00:03:03,148
Mmm-hmm.
81
00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:04,950
Let's take a look
at that conversation,
82
00:03:04,952 --> 00:03:06,785
- and then let's get your reaction after it.
- Okay.
83
00:03:08,221 --> 00:03:11,123
I think after we moved
to Flagstaff,
84
00:03:11,125 --> 00:03:13,192
all of us were seeing fractures
85
00:03:13,194 --> 00:03:15,060
in the family culture.
86
00:03:15,062 --> 00:03:16,828
I feel like we signed up
for something
87
00:03:16,830 --> 00:03:18,564
when we decided to be
a plural family,
88
00:03:18,566 --> 00:03:20,165
and it just seems like
we're all sort of like,
89
00:03:20,167 --> 00:03:22,401
"Whatever, let's just
let it happen.
90
00:03:22,403 --> 00:03:23,669
We're gonna
just roll with it."
91
00:03:23,671 --> 00:03:25,404
And I don't like that,
92
00:03:25,406 --> 00:03:27,072
so I'm gonna have
a conversation with my family.
93
00:03:27,074 --> 00:03:29,508
Do you think our family
feels like it used to?
94
00:03:29,510 --> 00:03:30,842
Like, when you
first met us, Robyn,
95
00:03:30,844 --> 00:03:33,545
does it feel like that
in our family now?
96
00:03:33,547 --> 00:03:35,047
Oh, since we've been
to Flagstaff,
97
00:03:35,049 --> 00:03:36,114
it's been different.
98
00:03:36,116 --> 00:03:37,983
We're not doing
anything together.
99
00:03:37,985 --> 00:03:39,151
And it's super-stressful
100
00:03:39,153 --> 00:03:41,286
when we do do stuff together,
it's not easy.
101
00:03:41,288 --> 00:03:43,488
I mean, just getting us
together again
102
00:03:43,490 --> 00:03:45,891
for a simple dinner took months.
103
00:03:45,893 --> 00:03:47,960
Because we don't need
each other as much,
104
00:03:47,962 --> 00:03:49,161
we've lost something.
105
00:03:49,163 --> 00:03:51,463
And I don't know
what the solution is.
106
00:03:51,465 --> 00:03:53,332
But there's something
fundamentally going wrong,
107
00:03:53,334 --> 00:03:56,201
and I feel like...
I feel like we have tribalism.
108
00:03:56,203 --> 00:03:59,071
[Meri] Because we are in
four separate homes,
109
00:03:59,073 --> 00:04:01,807
we just started escaping.
110
00:04:01,809 --> 00:04:03,008
It was easy.
111
00:04:03,010 --> 00:04:05,477
I feel like I'm on the outside
looking in all the time.
112
00:04:05,479 --> 00:04:06,612
- [Robyn] Really?
- Yes.
113
00:04:06,614 --> 00:04:07,713
And when I get together
114
00:04:07,715 --> 00:04:09,114
for family gatherings,
I'm like...
115
00:04:09,849 --> 00:04:10,882
Why would I wanna go?
116
00:04:10,884 --> 00:04:12,517
'Cause it's just gonna be
a hostile environment,
117
00:04:12,519 --> 00:04:14,753
and no one there even likes me.
118
00:04:14,755 --> 00:04:16,054
[Christine] Yup, that's how
I felt.
119
00:04:16,056 --> 00:04:17,556
See, I think this is the danger
120
00:04:17,558 --> 00:04:19,091
of spending
too much time separate.
121
00:04:19,093 --> 00:04:20,158
And maybe...
122
00:04:21,694 --> 00:04:23,028
and this would be heartbreaking,
123
00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:24,196
there are some of us
who are like,
124
00:04:24,198 --> 00:04:25,697
"Look, I don't want it
any more."
125
00:04:27,033 --> 00:04:28,800
All right, so,
before the pandemic,
126
00:04:28,802 --> 00:04:31,570
you already started feeling
the isolation.
127
00:04:31,572 --> 00:04:33,605
Why was it so important
for you to call this meeting?
128
00:04:33,607 --> 00:04:36,074
Why do you think
this was happening?
129
00:04:36,076 --> 00:04:38,744
You know, I just think it was
sort of a natural evolution.
130
00:04:38,746 --> 00:04:40,045
Our children were growing up,
131
00:04:40,047 --> 00:04:41,980
we didn't need each other
as much,
132
00:04:41,982 --> 00:04:43,982
'cause when we have
a lot of little children,
133
00:04:43,984 --> 00:04:45,317
we needed each other so much
134
00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:47,519
to just kind of manage
day-to-day.
135
00:04:47,521 --> 00:04:49,221
There wasn't as much in common,
136
00:04:49,223 --> 00:04:50,956
we all have our own things
going on.
137
00:04:51,724 --> 00:04:53,158
There's a real, conscious effort
138
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:54,960
that needed to be made
to get together,
139
00:04:54,962 --> 00:04:57,529
and continue
those common experiences.
140
00:04:57,531 --> 00:04:59,431
And we just weren't doing it.
141
00:04:59,433 --> 00:05:02,701
And in a polygamous family,
that is a danger zone, right?
142
00:05:02,703 --> 00:05:03,935
- When you start...
- I think it is.
143
00:05:03,937 --> 00:05:05,037
So, there's two danger zones.
144
00:05:05,039 --> 00:05:06,171
One, you have
to be conscientious
145
00:05:06,173 --> 00:05:07,739
and be actively working.
146
00:05:07,741 --> 00:05:10,175
And then two, don't spend
too much time in your head
147
00:05:10,177 --> 00:05:12,911
imagining things
about the other people.
148
00:05:12,913 --> 00:05:15,781
Those are the two big,
big danger zones.
149
00:05:15,783 --> 00:05:18,317
There was an awareness
that I came to
150
00:05:18,319 --> 00:05:23,388
with the family,
that we had been united
151
00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:25,223
in so much of what we had done.
152
00:05:26,225 --> 00:05:27,959
- Let's say in Las Vegas.
- Yeah.
153
00:05:27,961 --> 00:05:29,861
We're in this cul-de-sac,
we're next to each other,
154
00:05:29,863 --> 00:05:31,396
we're united in what we've done.
155
00:05:31,398 --> 00:05:35,600
We sort of hashed it out,
and were forced to address it,
156
00:05:35,602 --> 00:05:36,802
and sometimes we just didn't.
157
00:05:36,804 --> 00:05:39,104
There's this perpetual, um...
158
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,074
A perpetual dishonesty
159
00:05:42,076 --> 00:05:43,809
- that we dealt with...
- Right.
160
00:05:43,811 --> 00:05:45,977
in order to keep
relationships good and healthy.
161
00:05:45,979 --> 00:05:47,879
Moving to Flagstaff
separated us.
162
00:05:47,881 --> 00:05:49,981
- Mmm.
- And at that point, it was like,
163
00:05:49,983 --> 00:05:52,684
we don't have to do everything
like we used to do it.
164
00:05:52,686 --> 00:05:55,520
And that became sort of
a prevailing attitude.
165
00:05:55,522 --> 00:05:57,089
And that even became
my attitude.
166
00:05:57,091 --> 00:05:58,557
"Ladies, I'm gonna do this,
167
00:05:59,359 --> 00:06:00,926
you choose
what you're gonna do."
168
00:06:00,928 --> 00:06:02,327
And they did.
169
00:06:02,329 --> 00:06:04,296
I remember feeling like,
170
00:06:04,298 --> 00:06:06,264
"You know what?
This is kinda weird.
171
00:06:06,266 --> 00:06:08,300
We're not seeing each other,
we're not interacting a lot."
172
00:06:08,302 --> 00:06:09,835
But at the same time,
173
00:06:09,837 --> 00:06:13,472
I looked at it as
we were just focusing on
174
00:06:13,474 --> 00:06:17,609
trying to get settled
in a new town, in a new home.
175
00:06:17,611 --> 00:06:20,178
And so I was just kind of,
like, letting it go,
176
00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:22,881
and it became deeper.
177
00:06:22,883 --> 00:06:25,183
Yeah, I'm sure everybody
hates me all the time.
178
00:06:27,787 --> 00:06:28,987
- [Robyn] What?
- I feel like I'm on
179
00:06:28,989 --> 00:06:30,622
the outside looking in
all the time.
180
00:06:30,624 --> 00:06:31,723
- Really?
- Yes.
181
00:06:31,725 --> 00:06:32,791
And then when I get together
182
00:06:32,793 --> 00:06:34,459
for family gatherings,
I'm like...
183
00:06:34,461 --> 00:06:35,794
Why would I wanna go?
184
00:06:35,796 --> 00:06:37,429
'Cause it's just gonna be
a hostile environment,
185
00:06:37,431 --> 00:06:38,497
and no one there even likes me.
186
00:06:39,999 --> 00:06:43,468
What did you say to her
to help her sort of heal?
187
00:06:43,470 --> 00:06:47,339
Because she also uses the word
"hostile" at this time, too.
188
00:06:47,341 --> 00:06:48,473
It was a big word.
189
00:06:48,475 --> 00:06:50,208
I was surprised at that, too.
190
00:06:50,210 --> 00:06:51,443
"Hostile."
191
00:06:52,145 --> 00:06:54,045
Um, I mean, I can see where...
192
00:06:54,047 --> 00:06:56,248
Okay, so, what I feel like
is sometimes,
193
00:06:56,250 --> 00:06:58,617
when we haven't been
around family for a while,
194
00:06:58,619 --> 00:07:01,052
you can get kind of
these monsters in your head.
195
00:07:01,054 --> 00:07:05,891
She had said in that moment
when we were at dinner,
196
00:07:05,893 --> 00:07:08,894
she said, um,
"I feel like I'm hated."
197
00:07:08,896 --> 00:07:11,463
- Mmm.
- And so I was like,
198
00:07:11,465 --> 00:07:13,632
I'm gonna make sure she knows
I don't hate her,
199
00:07:13,634 --> 00:07:16,034
'cause that's a really
big thing to sit there,
200
00:07:16,036 --> 00:07:18,670
and wonder if people
feel that way about you.
201
00:07:18,672 --> 00:07:21,072
Yeah, it kind of set me back
a little bit.
202
00:07:21,074 --> 00:07:22,874
'Cause I didn't realize
that she felt...
203
00:07:22,876 --> 00:07:24,576
'Cause she's usually
the life of the party.
204
00:07:24,578 --> 00:07:25,877
We get together,
205
00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:28,947
she's really, like, a vibrant
part of our family gatherings.
206
00:07:28,949 --> 00:07:32,350
I was surprised
that she felt like that.
207
00:07:32,352 --> 00:07:35,086
All of your sister wives
were looking at you,
208
00:07:35,088 --> 00:07:37,756
- very shocked and perplexed as to...
- Yeah.
209
00:07:37,758 --> 00:07:41,593
"I'm sorry, we had no idea
you were feeling this."
210
00:07:41,595 --> 00:07:44,629
I don't know why
Christine is saying this.
211
00:07:44,631 --> 00:07:46,364
That she feels like she's hated.
212
00:07:46,366 --> 00:07:48,133
Like, that's... that's scary.
213
00:07:48,135 --> 00:07:49,901
[Meri] I mean, I totally
understand, you know,
214
00:07:49,903 --> 00:07:53,238
going into a family function,
215
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,874
and just, like, not knowing
where you stand.
216
00:07:55,876 --> 00:07:56,908
Wow.
217
00:07:57,944 --> 00:08:00,879
I mean, it's a shame
that she feels like that.
218
00:08:00,881 --> 00:08:03,615
I feel like Janelle deserved,
and since she
219
00:08:03,617 --> 00:08:06,284
was brave enough to have us
all come together,
220
00:08:06,286 --> 00:08:08,553
I wanted to be authentic
for Janelle, too.
221
00:08:08,555 --> 00:08:09,955
And that's exactly how I felt.
222
00:08:09,957 --> 00:08:12,457
And it was probably
all internal,
223
00:08:12,459 --> 00:08:14,092
I'm not gonna say it's not.
224
00:08:14,094 --> 00:08:17,195
Like, definitely, it was all
a lovely conversation
225
00:08:17,197 --> 00:08:19,998
I was having with myself
most of the time.
226
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,434
And I just felt like
before I would ever go to
227
00:08:22,436 --> 00:08:24,769
any family gatherings
or anything,
228
00:08:24,771 --> 00:08:26,905
I just really hesitated,
and I'm like,
229
00:08:26,907 --> 00:08:28,340
"Does anyone
really even like me?"
230
00:08:28,342 --> 00:08:30,175
'Cause we wouldn't reach out
to each other.
231
00:08:30,177 --> 00:08:32,077
But I wouldn't reach out either.
232
00:08:32,079 --> 00:08:34,779
And then, Kody and I had been
having such a rough time
233
00:08:34,781 --> 00:08:36,414
for so long,
234
00:08:36,416 --> 00:08:38,316
and it's really hard
to be in a room
235
00:08:38,318 --> 00:08:39,918
with everybody,
236
00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,455
and watch him be incredible
in other relationships,
237
00:08:43,457 --> 00:08:45,190
and know that your own
is terrible,
238
00:08:45,192 --> 00:08:46,858
and wonder, "What am I
supposed to do?"
239
00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:49,594
You know, what am I supposed
to do in a room where
240
00:08:49,596 --> 00:08:52,197
I feel like
I really don't matter?
241
00:08:52,199 --> 00:08:54,766
So I would go in there
shielded too,
242
00:08:54,768 --> 00:08:56,968
and worried about
243
00:08:57,803 --> 00:08:59,538
just seeing Kody with his wives.
244
00:08:59,540 --> 00:09:00,672
It was so hard.
245
00:09:01,541 --> 00:09:03,875
The other part
of this conversation
246
00:09:03,877 --> 00:09:06,378
that you were having
was really Christine's pain.
247
00:09:06,380 --> 00:09:09,114
Saying that she wasn't liked,
that she didn't, you know,
248
00:09:09,116 --> 00:09:11,349
she has anxiety
coming to these things.
249
00:09:11,351 --> 00:09:14,019
What was going through your
mind when she's revealing this?
250
00:09:14,021 --> 00:09:15,487
Robyn's face was pure shock.
251
00:09:15,489 --> 00:09:19,224
Yeah. It kind of surprised me
that she was saying that.
252
00:09:19,226 --> 00:09:21,860
Um, I didn't know
that she felt like that.
253
00:09:21,862 --> 00:09:23,595
And yet I also understood
those feelings,
254
00:09:23,597 --> 00:09:24,663
'cause I've felt like that
255
00:09:24,665 --> 00:09:26,131
- before, and I...
- Right.
256
00:09:26,133 --> 00:09:28,867
You know, I think it's just
a little bit of an insecurity
257
00:09:28,869 --> 00:09:33,071
that she was having,
and that I have had as well.
258
00:09:33,073 --> 00:09:34,372
At that point,
when you knew that
259
00:09:34,374 --> 00:09:37,409
you could align
with her emotions,
260
00:09:37,411 --> 00:09:39,711
right, having had
those insecurities before,
261
00:09:39,713 --> 00:09:41,479
did you feel like you can
talk to her and be like,
262
00:09:41,481 --> 00:09:42,914
"Hey, we've all
been there before"?
263
00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:44,683
Yeah. And there were times
264
00:09:44,685 --> 00:09:48,453
that I did reach out to her
during those times,
265
00:09:48,455 --> 00:09:51,756
I would send a text or try
calling, or whatever, and...
266
00:09:51,758 --> 00:09:56,595
and not always
was that reciprocated.
267
00:09:56,597 --> 00:09:58,830
Did you feel like
268
00:09:58,832 --> 00:10:00,899
that conversation
was highlighting
269
00:10:00,901 --> 00:10:04,169
the relationship
kind of not being okay
270
00:10:04,171 --> 00:10:05,770
between Christine and Kody?
271
00:10:05,772 --> 00:10:07,939
- Oh, I didn't...
- You didn't know about that?
272
00:10:07,941 --> 00:10:10,108
That's not something that
I recognized in that moment.
273
00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:11,710
You didn't know
about it? Okay.
274
00:10:11,712 --> 00:10:16,815
In that moment,
I was just recognizing, like,
275
00:10:16,817 --> 00:10:19,217
what we were talking about,
what Janelle brought up.
276
00:10:19,219 --> 00:10:20,485
"Hey, where are we?
277
00:10:20,487 --> 00:10:22,387
Do we want to all be together?
278
00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:24,889
Do we want
to work together?" Like...
279
00:10:24,891 --> 00:10:28,293
Since we've moved to Flagstaff
things are kind of weird.
280
00:10:28,295 --> 00:10:30,228
You said that
your relationship with Kody
281
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:32,964
at this point was already
a lot of fractures,
282
00:10:32,966 --> 00:10:34,599
- a lot of strain, a lot of stress.
- Mmm-hmm.
283
00:10:34,601 --> 00:10:37,602
At that point,
were you willing to work on
284
00:10:37,604 --> 00:10:39,070
your relationship with him,
285
00:10:39,072 --> 00:10:41,006
and all the other sister wives,
286
00:10:41,008 --> 00:10:43,108
to create and keep
this family unit together?
287
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:44,442
At that point
of the dinner, yes.
288
00:10:44,444 --> 00:10:46,277
At that point of the dinner
I thought, "You know what?
289
00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:47,912
This is a great wake-up call."
290
00:10:47,914 --> 00:10:50,815
And we have
wonderful times together.
291
00:10:50,817 --> 00:10:53,418
And especially when the
sister wives would get together,
292
00:10:53,420 --> 00:10:55,687
not with Kody, you know,
that was super-fun.
293
00:10:55,689 --> 00:10:57,255
So this dinner was kinda like,
294
00:10:57,257 --> 00:11:00,525
"Okay, I think that we really,
honestly, can do this."
295
00:11:00,527 --> 00:11:02,827
It was kind of like
a wake-up call, little bit.
296
00:11:02,829 --> 00:11:04,963
But then Covid happened.
297
00:11:04,965 --> 00:11:10,135
Yup, and then we became
way more separate with Covid.
298
00:11:11,103 --> 00:11:12,203
[Sukanya reading]
299
00:11:12,205 --> 00:11:15,306
If you don't wanna get this,
then don't get exposure.
300
00:11:15,308 --> 00:11:17,375
If you don't wanna get pregnant,
301
00:11:17,377 --> 00:11:19,010
just don't have sex.
302
00:11:19,012 --> 00:11:20,779
Was he forcing you
to make a choice?
303
00:11:20,781 --> 00:11:23,481
He would love it if we chose
what he chose.
304
00:11:23,483 --> 00:11:27,686
The family unity
and the group just... [sighs]
305
00:11:28,988 --> 00:11:30,822
Got thrown out of the window
because of a virus.
306
00:11:37,263 --> 00:11:40,999
Okay, we are rolling, and...
307
00:11:41,001 --> 00:11:44,202
Um, so, Kody, there's a lot
going on this season.
308
00:11:44,204 --> 00:11:45,870
And we wanna get into
a real, frank conversation
309
00:11:45,872 --> 00:11:47,372
about what's going on.
310
00:11:47,374 --> 00:11:50,742
But Covid
shined a light differently.
311
00:11:50,744 --> 00:11:52,977
Let's talk about
the initial protocols.
312
00:11:52,979 --> 00:11:54,679
- Mmm, yeah.
- Um...
313
00:11:54,681 --> 00:11:56,448
What were they?
314
00:11:56,450 --> 00:11:58,349
Basically the schools sent
all the kids home.
315
00:11:58,351 --> 00:11:59,451
[Sukanya] Okay.
316
00:11:59,453 --> 00:12:01,586
Uh, the government,
the local government,
317
00:12:01,588 --> 00:12:02,887
shut down businesses.
318
00:12:02,889 --> 00:12:07,425
And basically mask mandates,
you know.
319
00:12:07,427 --> 00:12:10,261
And warnings. Warnings,
warnings, warnings.
320
00:12:10,263 --> 00:12:13,531
Um, and that's kind of
where it all went.
321
00:12:13,533 --> 00:12:16,501
Well, that kinda leads me
to different households
322
00:12:16,503 --> 00:12:20,371
within your family structure
having different protocols.
323
00:12:20,373 --> 00:12:21,673
I want you to watch these clips
324
00:12:21,675 --> 00:12:23,675
- and then we'll talk about it after.
- Sure.
325
00:12:27,546 --> 00:12:30,215
Because of Covid-19,
for a few months now,
326
00:12:30,217 --> 00:12:32,584
we've been practicing
Covid protocols.
327
00:12:32,586 --> 00:12:34,352
Each one of you
wanna be able to see me,
328
00:12:34,354 --> 00:12:36,588
but I can be the only one
that you see
329
00:12:36,590 --> 00:12:39,023
besides your immediate children.
330
00:12:39,025 --> 00:12:41,593
We've kinda got to a place where
331
00:12:41,595 --> 00:12:44,395
not everybody's in agreement.
332
00:12:44,397 --> 00:12:47,799
I will tell you that I can't
go all summer doing this.
333
00:12:47,801 --> 00:12:49,567
'Cause she doesn't
wanna hear the facts.
334
00:12:49,569 --> 00:12:50,668
She doesn't wanna hear it.
335
00:12:50,670 --> 00:12:52,437
Kody seems to be taking it
336
00:12:52,439 --> 00:12:54,305
to a whole different level
of isolation.
337
00:12:54,307 --> 00:12:56,074
[Christine] I know
he would rather us
338
00:12:56,076 --> 00:12:57,442
just stay home all the time.
339
00:12:57,444 --> 00:12:58,610
But yeah, it's not gonna happen,
340
00:12:58,612 --> 00:12:59,744
I have other kids to go see.
341
00:12:59,746 --> 00:13:02,914
[Kody] It's not a breakdown
in communication.
342
00:13:02,916 --> 00:13:06,684
It's a breakdown in agreement
on how we're supposed to
343
00:13:06,686 --> 00:13:10,789
have our family behave
during Covid-19.
344
00:13:10,791 --> 00:13:12,957
I don't like telling them
what to do,
345
00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:15,960
because they just like
to put me in my place.
346
00:13:15,962 --> 00:13:17,996
But right now
is one of those times
347
00:13:17,998 --> 00:13:20,632
when I would like
to be able to say, "Hey!
348
00:13:20,634 --> 00:13:23,134
These are the rules,
and you're gonna do 'em."
349
00:13:23,136 --> 00:13:25,270
[Janelle] We've been
so divided with Covid,
350
00:13:25,272 --> 00:13:27,839
I'm beginning to worry
the longer this goes on,
351
00:13:28,874 --> 00:13:30,341
that we may not recover.
352
00:13:31,644 --> 00:13:35,280
Okay, that was very, very
poignant what Janelle said.
353
00:13:35,282 --> 00:13:37,382
My biggest concern
right from the beginning
354
00:13:37,384 --> 00:13:39,951
when it was all this...
This fear, you know.
355
00:13:39,953 --> 00:13:42,821
"So many will die and
your children are at risk."
356
00:13:42,823 --> 00:13:46,090
- Well, I wanted to prevent the death of a child.
- Yeah.
357
00:13:46,092 --> 00:13:50,995
We can look back now and
go, "Maybe we were too strict."
358
00:13:50,997 --> 00:13:53,064
At the same time,
I was like going, "Okay,
359
00:13:53,866 --> 00:13:55,700
however long we have
to quarantine,
360
00:13:55,702 --> 00:13:58,469
however long we have to do this,
what if there's other side effects?"
361
00:13:58,471 --> 00:14:00,738
- You know, well, nobody wants to die.
- Right.
362
00:14:00,740 --> 00:14:02,740
But what if you have
something where
363
00:14:02,742 --> 00:14:05,610
it affects your lungs or your
kidneys for long term in your life?
364
00:14:05,612 --> 00:14:08,680
- Or it affects your brain or something like that.
- So it was all the what if's
365
00:14:08,682 --> 00:14:12,550
that kind of made you stick
to your initial protocols?
366
00:14:12,552 --> 00:14:17,055
Yeah, yeah. And this is [stutters]
With the advice of my physician as well.
367
00:14:17,057 --> 00:14:19,357
It's like, "Hey listen.
You know, like..."
368
00:14:19,359 --> 00:14:23,361
You know. "If you don't want to
get pregnant, just don't have sex."
369
00:14:23,363 --> 00:14:24,829
- Yeah.
- I mean, sorry that's a...
370
00:14:24,831 --> 00:14:28,499
That might be
a crass um, analogy,
371
00:14:28,501 --> 00:14:30,468
but it's like, if you don't
want to get this,
372
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:32,804
then don't get exposure to it.
373
00:14:32,806 --> 00:14:35,573
And you don't know where
you'll get the exposure.
374
00:14:35,575 --> 00:14:39,310
Robyn was right off the bat,
"I am going to keep these rules
375
00:14:39,312 --> 00:14:43,314
because my children
are at a tender age.
376
00:14:43,316 --> 00:14:45,216
They need their dad here."
377
00:14:45,218 --> 00:14:47,418
Now I had two other wives.
378
00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:50,221
One who was mostly compliant,
379
00:14:50,223 --> 00:14:52,757
- but couldn't keep her kids compliant.
- Yeah.
380
00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:55,159
And then one
who was just not compliant.
381
00:14:55,161 --> 00:14:59,063
Specifically Christine
was like, "I want to be free."
382
00:14:59,065 --> 00:15:00,665
I think it would be awesome
to get together.
383
00:15:00,667 --> 00:15:02,200
I think it would be
super, super cool.
384
00:15:02,202 --> 00:15:04,569
I think it's sad
to be separated.
385
00:15:04,571 --> 00:15:07,872
I think it might be the safest and the most
responsible thing to do to stay separated.
386
00:15:07,874 --> 00:15:09,874
Am I a fan of it? No.
387
00:15:09,876 --> 00:15:12,977
I think it's ridiculous that
we're not getting together.
388
00:15:12,979 --> 00:15:16,047
It's not realistic.
It's just simply not.
389
00:15:16,049 --> 00:15:19,851
Um, when Kody first we had this Zoom
call together, and he goes, "You know
390
00:15:19,853 --> 00:15:23,154
I can be the only one that goes
from house to house to house."
391
00:15:23,156 --> 00:15:25,823
I have kids that live
everywhere and I can't.
392
00:15:25,825 --> 00:15:28,726
I cannot just stay home.
393
00:15:28,728 --> 00:15:31,796
- When kids say they need you, you go.
- Yeah.
394
00:15:31,798 --> 00:15:33,798
Was he forcing you
to make a choice?
395
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,768
He would love it
if we chose what he chose.
396
00:15:36,770 --> 00:15:38,136
Don't get me wrong.
We were super smart.
397
00:15:38,138 --> 00:15:41,272
We followed the CDC
guidelines. We kept the distance.
398
00:15:41,274 --> 00:15:44,375
You know, every time we traveled,
we would come back and tell Kody.
399
00:15:44,377 --> 00:15:47,412
We'd quarantine afterwards so
that he could come over again.
400
00:15:47,414 --> 00:15:49,047
- So you were following protocols?
- Yeah.
401
00:15:49,049 --> 00:15:52,350
I was following the CDC
protocols, just not Kody's.
402
00:15:52,352 --> 00:15:57,088
Christine literally was like, "I'd
rather see my other kids than see you."
403
00:15:57,090 --> 00:16:00,258
Did you feel that
looking back at it,
404
00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:03,962
do you understand why Christine
was doing what she wanted to do?
405
00:16:03,964 --> 00:16:06,664
- I can be empathetic to it.
- Yeah.
406
00:16:06,666 --> 00:16:09,701
But I'm going to still
maintain the rules.
407
00:16:09,703 --> 00:16:13,338
Truely had kidney failures
years ago. She nearly died.
408
00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:20,345
That... That borderline death, that
essence of loss in spite of not losing,
409
00:16:21,347 --> 00:16:23,414
that essence of loss changed us.
410
00:16:24,483 --> 00:16:27,318
And I am dead aware of it.
411
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,923
But we saw a lot of fractures like
this year between you and Christine.
412
00:16:31,925 --> 00:16:35,193
Now her sort of
leaning in the direction
413
00:16:35,195 --> 00:16:38,229
of her children
during this time,
414
00:16:38,231 --> 00:16:43,401
was that more fracturing
that was happening
415
00:16:43,403 --> 00:16:48,406
and more stress that was in the
relationship that was sort of playing out?
416
00:16:48,408 --> 00:16:53,244
Yeah, and with hindsight I might have
been able to be more loose about it.
417
00:16:53,246 --> 00:16:56,381
But every moment that I was
dealing with it, I was like,
418
00:16:56,383 --> 00:16:59,417
I was getting firmer
and firmer in my resolve.
419
00:16:59,419 --> 00:17:04,655
My sole goal was to keep everybody
alive even if we were separated.
420
00:17:06,525 --> 00:17:09,193
[sighs] Gosh, it's such
a tough uh...
421
00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:17,702
- Like I feel so torn by the situation.
- Mmm-hmm.
422
00:17:17,704 --> 00:17:20,038
I understand what Kody
was wanting to do.
423
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,507
And I understand what Janelle
and Christine were about.
424
00:17:22,509 --> 00:17:25,743
But at the same time, I was like, "Why
couldn't we have meshed those two?"
425
00:17:27,112 --> 00:17:32,383
I just felt like this is the
family culture that we have built
426
00:17:32,385 --> 00:17:35,686
and we're destroying that.
427
00:17:35,688 --> 00:17:41,759
So you felt like them not
being able to come to a solution
428
00:17:41,761 --> 00:17:45,496
- where we can bring everybody
together-- - Yeah, and not just. Yeah.
429
00:17:45,498 --> 00:17:52,670
Was in a way destroying what
you had created as a plural family.
430
00:17:52,672 --> 00:17:54,472
In the beginning, I didn't
think of it that way.
431
00:17:54,474 --> 00:17:56,574
In the beginning, I thought,
"This will go away eventually."
432
00:17:56,576 --> 00:18:00,611
But you know, how far are we
into it and it still hasn't stopped.
433
00:18:05,551 --> 00:18:06,784
Tell me what's going on.
434
00:18:10,189 --> 00:18:11,189
[sniffles]
435
00:18:13,192 --> 00:18:15,426
- I hate crying.
- No, no, no, no.
436
00:18:18,297 --> 00:18:19,664
Hold on. Can I get a tissue?
437
00:18:20,766 --> 00:18:22,633
I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Robyn.
438
00:18:26,371 --> 00:18:28,139
[sniffles] Um...
439
00:18:31,743 --> 00:18:34,178
- Hurt.
- Yeah, it's just...
440
00:18:36,482 --> 00:18:40,051
It's just painful. It's
just painful 'cause it's...
441
00:18:42,488 --> 00:18:49,193
It felt like the family group and
the unity, all of that stuff just...
442
00:18:51,730 --> 00:18:53,598
Got thrown out of the window
because of a virus.
443
00:18:56,301 --> 00:18:58,836
Really surprised me
and shocked me and really...
444
00:19:01,807 --> 00:19:06,043
Um, it's really been disturbing.
445
00:19:06,045 --> 00:19:10,248
Do you think COVID has changed
the family or shined a light
446
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:15,786
on some of the issues that were
already kind of existing there?
447
00:19:15,788 --> 00:19:18,089
Um, you know? It did both.
448
00:19:18,091 --> 00:19:22,760
I feel like it basically took that rug
that we were shoving everything under
449
00:19:22,762 --> 00:19:26,531
- and just everything was shown.
- Yeah.
450
00:19:26,533 --> 00:19:30,101
- I don't know. I'm just like, "Can we come back from this?"
- Can you?
451
00:19:31,770 --> 00:19:35,106
- I'm trying. I want to.
- Yeah.
452
00:19:37,042 --> 00:19:38,375
[Sukanya] Coming up...
453
00:19:38,377 --> 00:19:41,245
That... Oh, I just wanted...
Like steam [imitates explosion]
454
00:19:41,247 --> 00:19:43,514
That's just not where
our relationship is right now.
455
00:19:43,516 --> 00:19:45,550
Oh, my heart breaks when
I think about their marriage
456
00:19:45,552 --> 00:19:47,485
and I don't want that.
457
00:19:47,487 --> 00:19:48,753
[Sukanya] And later...
458
00:19:48,755 --> 00:19:51,589
- It's hard to hear.
- They can leave whenever they want.
459
00:19:57,062 --> 00:19:59,497
[producer] Alright, can we stay as
close as we can to the end of the arms?
460
00:19:59,499 --> 00:20:01,599
Set here and quiet please.
461
00:20:01,601 --> 00:20:04,835
- Marker.
- [producer] In five, four.
462
00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:07,905
Let's talk about loneliness,
because that was something
463
00:20:07,907 --> 00:20:10,741
that everybody felt
during the pandemic.
464
00:20:10,743 --> 00:20:14,712
And it was really spotlighted
with all of the sister wives
465
00:20:14,714 --> 00:20:17,949
- in separate times throughout this season.
- Yep.
466
00:20:17,951 --> 00:20:20,785
- Let's take a look at the clip and then, we'll talk about it.
- Okay.
467
00:20:20,787 --> 00:20:23,154
Because you were very
authentic in your feelings
468
00:20:23,156 --> 00:20:26,591
- of feeling alone and alienated during this time.
- Yeah.
469
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,796
[Christine] The whole world's scared.
They're scared to leave their house.
470
00:20:31,798 --> 00:20:33,598
They're scared to trust people.
471
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,566
They're scared to be
around people.
472
00:20:35,568 --> 00:20:39,003
And then, they're lonely.
They're so lonely.
473
00:20:39,005 --> 00:20:41,239
I guess that's why I'm so
concerned about Janelle.
474
00:20:41,241 --> 00:20:44,108
[Janelle] Honestly, I sit
and watch TV.
475
00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:48,579
Like, I don't even want to pick
up my phone and talk to anybody.
476
00:20:48,581 --> 00:20:52,817
I don't text anybody.
Like, I'm... I'm not good.
477
00:20:52,819 --> 00:20:57,488
If I didn't have my girls with me
during this whole COVID thing,
478
00:20:57,490 --> 00:20:59,657
I'm sure I would have
been going insane.
479
00:20:59,659 --> 00:21:02,226
[Kody] I always saw one of the
main benefits about plural marriage
480
00:21:02,228 --> 00:21:05,963
is that anybody in the family would never
actually suffer any real, true loneliness.
481
00:21:07,499 --> 00:21:09,567
But the way that things
have played out for our family,
482
00:21:09,569 --> 00:21:12,003
that's not necessarily true.
483
00:21:12,005 --> 00:21:15,006
My relationship with Meri
is not the kind of relationship
484
00:21:15,008 --> 00:21:16,807
where I'm going to
talk with her everyday.
485
00:21:16,809 --> 00:21:20,311
If I was to get sick, nothing would
happen. I'd just be home alone sick.
486
00:21:21,113 --> 00:21:23,447
Nobody comes over here anyway.
487
00:21:23,449 --> 00:21:26,050
Um, we don't see each other.
488
00:21:26,052 --> 00:21:28,352
[Christine] It seems like the
only times that we really talk
489
00:21:28,354 --> 00:21:30,788
to each other
is when we have to.
490
00:21:30,790 --> 00:21:34,025
It's lonely and I really
miss everybody
491
00:21:34,027 --> 00:21:36,560
when they're not around,
but it's easier.
492
00:21:36,562 --> 00:21:40,264
I am pretty sure that
everybody is happy
493
00:21:40,266 --> 00:21:42,166
with the fact we have COVID
494
00:21:42,168 --> 00:21:46,037
and we had this excuse of
not having to see each other.
495
00:21:47,639 --> 00:21:50,508
So what are your thoughts
about what you said? Pretty raw.
496
00:21:50,510 --> 00:21:53,244
Yeah, I mean, I think...
497
00:21:53,246 --> 00:21:56,113
Okay, maybe happy
isn't the word,
498
00:21:56,115 --> 00:21:58,949
but like Janelle was saying,
it's easier.
499
00:21:58,951 --> 00:22:01,886
Like it's easier not to have
to work on out relationships.
500
00:22:01,888 --> 00:22:04,388
Because relationships are hard.
501
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:08,092
You've got the ups and downs
and so, you know, I think
502
00:22:09,261 --> 00:22:10,895
when I said, "Happy," maybe...
503
00:22:10,897 --> 00:22:13,831
Okay, maybe everybody
wasn't happy about it.
504
00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:15,466
What Meri just said
and Kody's really like,
505
00:22:15,468 --> 00:22:17,168
"So I'm back to hear
everybody's really glad."
506
00:22:17,170 --> 00:22:20,438
That... Oh, I just wanted...
Like steam [imitates explosion]
507
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,806
'Cause I think that's so extreme
508
00:22:21,808 --> 00:22:23,474
and I don't think it's true.
509
00:22:23,476 --> 00:22:26,010
I don't think anyone's happy
that we have an excuse.
510
00:22:26,012 --> 00:22:27,812
- Why do you think he said that?
- I don't know.
511
00:22:27,814 --> 00:22:29,246
It's the craziest thing.
512
00:22:29,248 --> 00:22:32,917
He's become so absolute. "Well,
nobody wanted to be together anyway."
513
00:22:32,919 --> 00:22:35,619
I just think
that's an extreme position.
514
00:22:35,621 --> 00:22:37,521
I got to imagine
that being isolated,
515
00:22:37,523 --> 00:22:38,923
because all of
these relationships,
516
00:22:38,925 --> 00:22:40,891
they're all very
important to you.
517
00:22:40,893 --> 00:22:44,195
How did that COVID and
the isolation play into that?
518
00:22:44,197 --> 00:22:46,731
I mourned. I really think
it was kind of
519
00:22:46,733 --> 00:22:49,500
- a mourning period almost.
- A lonely period?
520
00:22:49,502 --> 00:22:54,038
It was more than just lonely.
It was just kind of like
521
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,777
-um, a sadness almost. Like a sadness.
-Yeah.
522
00:22:59,779 --> 00:23:01,812
'Cause you've had these people
all around you all your life.
523
00:23:01,814 --> 00:23:03,114
Yeah, and then all of a sudden,
524
00:23:03,116 --> 00:23:05,616
here they are all
choosing something different.
525
00:23:05,618 --> 00:23:08,786
And our choices are so
different that we can't be together.
526
00:23:08,788 --> 00:23:10,254
So Kody wasn't coming
to your house at all.
527
00:23:10,256 --> 00:23:12,556
Was he even checking in on you?
What was he doing at this time?
528
00:23:12,558 --> 00:23:15,192
Well, we would text
and have phone calls
529
00:23:15,194 --> 00:23:19,163
you know, probably with Robyn more
than anybody throughout the whole time.
530
00:23:19,165 --> 00:23:21,932
- But it wasn't like
Kody coming in-- - No.
531
00:23:21,934 --> 00:23:24,368
To check in on you the way you wanted
him to come in and check in on you.
532
00:23:24,370 --> 00:23:27,438
No, but that's... That's just not
where our relationship is right now.
533
00:23:28,607 --> 00:23:30,374
Let's talk about Meri
during this time.
534
00:23:30,376 --> 00:23:31,942
You were very alone,
but so was Meri.
535
00:23:31,944 --> 00:23:33,511
And then Meri says
that, you know,
536
00:23:33,513 --> 00:23:35,279
"If I got COVID,
nobody would even know."
537
00:23:35,281 --> 00:23:38,783
And then, there seemed to be this
like... This helplessness inside of her.
538
00:23:38,785 --> 00:23:42,086
Which kind of frustrated me because
if she got COVID, she should call me.
539
00:23:42,088 --> 00:23:43,621
We're family. We're a family.
540
00:23:43,623 --> 00:23:46,023
Look, I get everything is super
strained with her and Kody.
541
00:23:46,025 --> 00:23:49,059
I get that, but she's choosing
a family identity,
542
00:23:49,061 --> 00:23:51,729
- so let's be a family.
- Yeah.
543
00:23:51,731 --> 00:23:52,897
Does that put you
in a weird place
544
00:23:52,899 --> 00:23:54,465
that she's choosing
the family identity
545
00:23:54,467 --> 00:23:58,235
that Kody has kind of
annexed himself from Meri
546
00:23:58,237 --> 00:24:00,104
and then you're all caught
in the middle of this?
547
00:24:00,106 --> 00:24:01,806
How... How does that work
in a polygamist family?
548
00:24:01,808 --> 00:24:03,941
You know, I don't think it's
that we're caught in the middle.
549
00:24:03,943 --> 00:24:05,910
I do... We feel the waves
550
00:24:05,912 --> 00:24:08,012
- when one relationship isn't working.
- Okay.
551
00:24:08,014 --> 00:24:09,847
It's hard to watch that happen
552
00:24:09,849 --> 00:24:14,018
because Kody doesn't
necessarily bring that
553
00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:15,519
to my house when he comes there,
554
00:24:15,521 --> 00:24:18,856
but you can feel
that tension going on.
555
00:24:18,858 --> 00:24:21,358
Do you ever get angry
at Meri and say [grunts]
556
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,060
- No.
- "You just made my life hell."
557
00:24:23,062 --> 00:24:26,363
No, it's not about sides. It's
that you hurt for both of them.
558
00:24:27,666 --> 00:24:30,668
Let me ask you a question
having observed relationships
559
00:24:30,670 --> 00:24:32,570
- with other sister wives, right.
- Yeah.
560
00:24:32,572 --> 00:24:34,972
That relationship
that he has with Meri,
561
00:24:34,974 --> 00:24:38,209
has that had any impact
on your decision making?
562
00:24:38,211 --> 00:24:40,010
Oh, my heart breaks when
I think about their marriage,
563
00:24:40,012 --> 00:24:42,146
and I don't want that.
564
00:24:42,148 --> 00:24:46,283
And I don't want to be
in a loveless marriage.
565
00:24:46,285 --> 00:24:48,919
I have no intention
of living like that.
566
00:24:48,921 --> 00:24:50,454
And if that's
what my future looks like,
567
00:24:50,456 --> 00:24:51,822
I'm not going to live that way.
568
00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:53,324
[Sukanya] Coming up...
569
00:24:53,326 --> 00:24:56,293
Did you and Kody ever have an
honest conversation about the cat-fishing?
570
00:24:56,295 --> 00:24:58,162
I thought that we did.
571
00:24:58,164 --> 00:25:02,066
You emotionally have left and
abandoned them in some ways, right?
572
00:25:02,068 --> 00:25:04,468
Well [scoffs]
abandoned. Please.
573
00:25:05,704 --> 00:25:07,104
- Well...
- Take the word back.
574
00:25:07,706 --> 00:25:09,640
She was leaving my ass.
575
00:25:14,646 --> 00:25:16,714
[Sukanya] This past year,
Kody and Meri celebrated
576
00:25:16,716 --> 00:25:18,315
their 30th wedding anniversary.
577
00:25:18,317 --> 00:25:20,184
Let's take a look
back through the years.
578
00:25:20,186 --> 00:25:21,252
Hi.
579
00:25:22,587 --> 00:25:25,222
[Meri] I was 19 and he was 22.
580
00:25:25,224 --> 00:25:29,727
From the time that we met to the
time that we got married was six months.
581
00:25:29,729 --> 00:25:31,395
I guess I was just
young and in love.
582
00:25:32,097 --> 00:25:34,131
We had a big reception.
583
00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:36,467
[Kody] We danced and she bit
my finger when I was trying to--
584
00:25:36,469 --> 00:25:39,503
[Meri] Because you shoved cake
clear down my face.
585
00:25:42,974 --> 00:25:45,175
So, I guess I should
bring something up. [sighs]
586
00:25:52,817 --> 00:25:55,352
I got into this place
where I was
587
00:25:55,354 --> 00:25:58,422
talking to different people
on social media
588
00:25:58,424 --> 00:26:03,460
and I got into this situation
talking to one person
589
00:26:03,462 --> 00:26:08,098
who really made me trust him.
590
00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:14,371
He was saying really kind
things. Flattering things.
591
00:26:14,373 --> 00:26:16,340
This is really, really confusing
592
00:26:16,342 --> 00:26:19,476
because I was really
caring about him too.
593
00:26:22,847 --> 00:26:24,214
Yeah. I wanted to meet him.
594
00:26:24,816 --> 00:26:26,283
He never would meet me.
595
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,122
I started looking into him
or who he said he was
596
00:26:32,124 --> 00:26:37,061
and there was way too many...
Way too many holes.
597
00:26:37,063 --> 00:26:39,863
I thought I was talking
to a man online.
598
00:26:41,399 --> 00:26:42,466
It wasn't a man.
599
00:26:43,668 --> 00:26:48,505
It was a woman
pretending to be a man.
600
00:26:48,507 --> 00:26:52,843
They really started pushing
that I was not happy here.
601
00:26:52,845 --> 00:26:54,979
The struggle I think
that I have with it
602
00:26:54,981 --> 00:26:58,315
is that I got shut out
because of him.
603
00:26:58,317 --> 00:27:00,517
That you didn't want to be
out of the family.
604
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:03,087
You just wanted out of
your relationship with me.
605
00:27:05,090 --> 00:27:08,659
The old stuff wasn't working.
It died.
606
00:27:08,661 --> 00:27:11,929
Now we're in a place
where we have to rediscover.
607
00:27:11,931 --> 00:27:13,564
You'll be okay. I promise.
608
00:27:14,566 --> 00:27:16,367
You might just have
to hold my hand through it.
609
00:27:16,369 --> 00:27:19,570
Oh [chuckles] would that
make you feel safe?
610
00:27:19,572 --> 00:27:21,972
I got to have both hands on
the wheel to make you safe.
611
00:27:21,974 --> 00:27:24,208
Damn, anything to get away
from holding my hand.
612
00:27:24,210 --> 00:27:28,912
I want to be able to trust
him and him trust me.
613
00:27:28,914 --> 00:27:32,216
I'm not in a place where I
want a romantic relationship.
614
00:27:34,285 --> 00:27:36,420
Robyn, stop.
Stop defending Meri.
615
00:27:36,422 --> 00:27:38,822
Stop acting like you're not getting
the [bleep] end of the stick here.
616
00:27:38,824 --> 00:27:41,925
- I'm not... I'm not.
- Listen, this is pissing me off.
617
00:27:41,927 --> 00:27:44,461
- She can take what everybody
else doesn't want-- - Stop. No.
618
00:27:44,463 --> 00:27:46,163
Instead of you taking
the [bleep] end.
619
00:27:46,165 --> 00:27:49,033
No, I don't... I don't...
Will you stop?
620
00:27:49,035 --> 00:27:51,301
I'm so angry
I almost can't talk.
621
00:27:51,303 --> 00:27:53,103
For all my marriage with Meri,
622
00:27:53,105 --> 00:27:57,174
I felt like she unloads
her emotions
623
00:27:57,176 --> 00:27:59,543
into a burden
that I'm supposed to carry.
624
00:27:59,545 --> 00:28:01,045
I'm not carrying this burden.
625
00:28:01,047 --> 00:28:04,281
'Cause if Meri and I really
wanted to be together, we would.
626
00:28:06,484 --> 00:28:09,753
What was your relationship
like with Kody when you first met?
627
00:28:09,755 --> 00:28:11,021
We were very much in love.
628
00:28:12,290 --> 00:28:15,726
So, you're doing great.
Janelle enters the picture.
629
00:28:15,728 --> 00:28:19,897
- Mmm-hmm.
- Give me a picture of what this was looking like.
630
00:28:19,899 --> 00:28:24,301
So when Janelle came into the
picture, it was a struggle for me.
631
00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:28,672
Because now
he's with somebody else.
632
00:28:28,674 --> 00:28:29,973
Was it jealousy? Was it--
633
00:28:29,975 --> 00:28:31,442
- Oh, absolutely.
- Did you not know how to manage it?
634
00:28:31,444 --> 00:28:33,477
Of course.
Of course there's jealousy.
635
00:28:33,479 --> 00:28:36,246
People ask all the time, "How
can there not be any jealousies?"
636
00:28:36,248 --> 00:28:37,715
Like, we never said
there wasn't.
637
00:28:37,717 --> 00:28:39,483
And I didn't know how
to handle it.
638
00:28:39,485 --> 00:28:41,151
And he didn't know how
to handle me.
639
00:28:41,153 --> 00:28:43,487
And she didn't know what
the heck was going on. [laughs]
640
00:28:43,489 --> 00:28:44,922
You know,
and I think all three of us
641
00:28:44,924 --> 00:28:48,559
had different ideals going
into it of how it was gonna be.
642
00:28:48,561 --> 00:28:50,160
- [Sukanya] Okay.
- And it wasn't.
643
00:28:50,162 --> 00:28:53,263
And then, you know, fast forward,
Christine comes in the picture.
644
00:28:53,265 --> 00:28:54,598
And how did that change
the dynamic?
645
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,334
That was a struggle
for me as well.
646
00:28:57,336 --> 00:29:01,305
I actually had a harder time
when Christine came.
647
00:29:01,307 --> 00:29:02,372
[Sukanya] Why?
648
00:29:02,374 --> 00:29:03,440
I don't know.
649
00:29:03,442 --> 00:29:05,075
[Sukanya]
And now there's Robyn.
650
00:29:05,077 --> 00:29:08,178
And every time you see him
651
00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:11,782
having a functional
relationship with Christine,
652
00:29:11,784 --> 00:29:14,685
a functioning relationship
with Robyn, and...
653
00:29:14,687 --> 00:29:17,621
And you're not having
that relationship.
654
00:29:17,623 --> 00:29:21,859
I was having the relationship
with Kody back then.
655
00:29:21,861 --> 00:29:25,429
I mean, we had, you know, we had
our arguments, we had our difficulties.
656
00:29:25,431 --> 00:29:26,930
And we would work through them.
657
00:29:26,932 --> 00:29:30,634
- It was definitely a roller-coaster relationship.
- [Sukanya laughs] Yeah.
658
00:29:30,636 --> 00:29:33,036
All right so, Kody, tell me
about your relationship with Meri.
659
00:29:33,038 --> 00:29:36,607
Um, there's just nothing
to talk about really.
660
00:29:36,609 --> 00:29:38,542
- Wow, that's hard to hear.
- [Kody] We were just, like, friends.
661
00:29:38,544 --> 00:29:39,977
I mean, listen.
662
00:29:39,979 --> 00:29:42,179
There was a hardness
in our marriage
663
00:29:42,181 --> 00:29:45,082
that was so difficult
and so antagonistic,
664
00:29:45,084 --> 00:29:46,650
I didn't know why we were in it.
665
00:29:46,652 --> 00:29:48,852
It took a long time,
a lot of counselling,
666
00:29:48,854 --> 00:29:51,188
as we go through all of this
for me to finally go,
667
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:54,424
"Meri, I don't... I just don't
see us getting back together."
668
00:29:54,426 --> 00:29:56,026
And why aren't
we getting back together?
669
00:29:56,028 --> 00:29:58,529
Because we will go back
to the way we were before.
670
00:29:58,531 --> 00:30:01,398
There's just no chance
that I ever want that again.
671
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,966
But why not leave her
at that point?
672
00:30:02,968 --> 00:30:04,368
It's a double standard.
673
00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:06,403
They can leave
whenever they want.
674
00:30:06,405 --> 00:30:07,738
I can't.
675
00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:10,240
It is not a double standard
because you emotionally have left
676
00:30:10,242 --> 00:30:12,876
and abandoned them
in some ways, right?
677
00:30:12,878 --> 00:30:15,212
Well... [scoffs]
Abandoned? Please.
678
00:30:16,447 --> 00:30:17,881
- Well--
- Take the word back.
679
00:30:17,883 --> 00:30:20,818
- [Sukanya] Okay.
- Because I take offence to that word of "abandonment."
680
00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:22,886
- [Sukanya] Emotional--
- When Meri had an affair,
681
00:30:23,822 --> 00:30:25,923
she was leaving my ass.
682
00:30:25,925 --> 00:30:27,558
'Cause she was like,
"I am done with this.
683
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,693
I am done with you.
I am done."
684
00:30:29,695 --> 00:30:32,362
She made it clear to everybody
that she was getting out of there.
685
00:30:33,131 --> 00:30:34,231
She was done with us.
686
00:30:34,233 --> 00:30:35,632
And she can't admit it now.
687
00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:37,167
'Cause we rallied.
688
00:30:37,169 --> 00:30:40,003
We circled the wagons
as a family to protect her
689
00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:43,240
when she realized
that she'd been duped.
690
00:30:43,242 --> 00:30:44,942
She was deceived.
She was leaving.
691
00:30:44,944 --> 00:30:46,243
She found something better.
692
00:30:46,245 --> 00:30:49,847
She was leaving me
for a better, richer man.
693
00:30:49,849 --> 00:30:55,152
And, because we did that, in her own mind
she doesn't even realized what happened.
694
00:30:55,154 --> 00:30:59,356
She sees herself as a victim,
which is true,
695
00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:02,059
but that she had
done nothing wrong.
696
00:31:02,061 --> 00:31:04,595
And she would have
never even been the victim
697
00:31:04,597 --> 00:31:07,798
if she wouldn't have done
something wrong.
698
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,235
Did you and Kody ever have an
honest conversation about the catfishing?
699
00:31:11,836 --> 00:31:13,804
I thought that we did.
700
00:31:13,806 --> 00:31:18,842
And I thought that he... That he
knew where I was coming from.
701
00:31:18,844 --> 00:31:22,746
You know, like how that all
happened and what happened.
702
00:31:22,748 --> 00:31:24,548
Well, he thought you were
leaving him for another person.
703
00:31:24,550 --> 00:31:25,716
- Right, he did.
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
704
00:31:25,718 --> 00:31:28,352
- Yeah, and I knew-- - So
he felt betrayed right there.
705
00:31:28,354 --> 00:31:29,786
[Meri] Absolutely,
and I get that.
706
00:31:29,788 --> 00:31:31,255
I wasn't leaving.
707
00:31:31,257 --> 00:31:33,390
But during that time,
708
00:31:33,392 --> 00:31:36,193
because I was very much
in a dark place,
709
00:31:37,028 --> 00:31:39,363
I considered all my options.
710
00:31:40,765 --> 00:31:43,667
Just because I was trying to
figure out what I needed to do.
711
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:45,702
But I feel like Kody
took it like that.
712
00:31:45,704 --> 00:31:47,537
[Meri] Oh, he definitely did.
713
00:31:47,539 --> 00:31:49,339
Did I start talking
to this person?
714
00:31:50,041 --> 00:31:51,775
Absolutely, I did.
715
00:31:51,777 --> 00:31:53,677
Did I think that
I was talking to a friend?
716
00:31:53,679 --> 00:31:55,078
Absolutely.
717
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,181
It literally was not just, uh...
718
00:31:58,183 --> 00:32:01,785
Um... "Okay, well, I'm
gonna meet some dude online
719
00:32:01,787 --> 00:32:05,155
and, uh, fall in love
and want to leave my family."
720
00:32:05,157 --> 00:32:10,694
A lot of people like to look at that
as the defining moment in the fracture
721
00:32:10,696 --> 00:32:13,497
and in mine
and Kody's relationship.
722
00:32:14,532 --> 00:32:16,867
And it wasn't.
723
00:32:16,869 --> 00:32:22,439
Did he say, "I have an issue of
trust with you now," as a result of it?
724
00:32:22,441 --> 00:32:24,141
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
725
00:32:25,977 --> 00:32:28,645
I'm not ever gonna be in a
conjugal relationship with her.
726
00:32:28,647 --> 00:32:31,949
Because I'm not gonna go through
that emotional torture ever again.
727
00:32:31,951 --> 00:32:33,884
When did the physicality go out?
728
00:32:33,886 --> 00:32:36,219
I don't know. Maybe a decade.
729
00:32:36,221 --> 00:32:37,654
- A decade ago?
- [Meri chuckles] Yeah.
730
00:32:37,656 --> 00:32:40,257
You're telling me that
you don't feel safe with Meri?
731
00:32:44,896 --> 00:32:46,596
[producer] All right, everybody
settle please. Any time.
732
00:32:46,598 --> 00:32:48,298
It's been
kind of interesting watching,
733
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:50,467
well, so many moments
between you guys
734
00:32:50,469 --> 00:32:52,202
- throughout the years.
- Mmm-hmm.
735
00:32:52,204 --> 00:32:54,905
But the one moment that
really stuck out for me was
736
00:32:54,907 --> 00:32:57,708
- the 30th anniversary date.
- Yeah.
737
00:32:57,710 --> 00:33:01,345
There was some
really heartbreaking moments.
738
00:33:01,347 --> 00:33:03,280
- I wanna take a look at it with you.
- [Meri] Okay.
739
00:33:03,282 --> 00:33:06,350
And then, I wanna get your
opinion on what was happening there,
740
00:33:06,352 --> 00:33:07,818
what you were trying
to get across,
741
00:33:07,820 --> 00:33:10,220
and where you thought
Kody's head was.
742
00:33:10,222 --> 00:33:11,388
Okay.
743
00:33:12,957 --> 00:33:16,326
There's just been nothing
going on between me and Meri.
744
00:33:17,962 --> 00:33:22,032
And she interacts with family
for the holidays and the birthdays.
745
00:33:22,034 --> 00:33:23,333
We get together once in a while.
746
00:33:23,335 --> 00:33:25,235
I see Meri once in a blue moon.
747
00:33:25,237 --> 00:33:28,271
We quit dating
and that's just probably
748
00:33:28,273 --> 00:33:31,775
because I quit calling her
to say let's go do something.
749
00:33:31,777 --> 00:33:34,211
You and I have not
been out together
750
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:37,414
since last year's anniversary.
751
00:33:37,416 --> 00:33:39,783
Which is fine, it is what it is.
752
00:33:39,785 --> 00:33:41,718
Are you broken-hearted by that?
753
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,854
Is it... Is it troubling you?
754
00:33:43,856 --> 00:33:45,922
I've been waiting
for you, honestly.
755
00:33:45,924 --> 00:33:48,158
- And I'm not coming.
- I know that.
756
00:33:49,193 --> 00:33:51,428
I will ask him to come over.
757
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:54,164
"Hey, come over.
Let's go do something."
758
00:33:54,166 --> 00:33:55,365
He says no.
759
00:33:55,367 --> 00:33:56,833
When I ask, he says no.
760
00:33:56,835 --> 00:33:59,236
- table this--
- Do you know
761
00:33:59,238 --> 00:34:02,339
that every time you put
your hand on my hand...
762
00:34:04,042 --> 00:34:05,575
how I feel?
763
00:34:05,577 --> 00:34:07,377
I just wish you knew.
764
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,883
My discussion with Meri right
now isn't about me telling Meri
765
00:34:12,885 --> 00:34:15,685
that she has to have a divorce
with me, that she has to leave.
766
00:34:15,687 --> 00:34:17,988
I'm not doing that.
I will never do that.
767
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:19,689
My faith doesn't allow me to.
768
00:34:19,691 --> 00:34:23,994
My conscience
doesn't allow me to.
769
00:34:23,996 --> 00:34:26,396
And because I haven't done that,
770
00:34:26,398 --> 00:34:28,698
there's always a chance
that we might actually
771
00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:30,667
get back together
into full fellowship.
772
00:34:30,669 --> 00:34:34,237
Like what we have done
in the past 30 years or not,
773
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:36,606
it's 30 years.
774
00:34:38,042 --> 00:34:41,978
This is not something
I'm willing to walk away from.
775
00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:44,114
- The relation-- - Meri, I'm not
motivated by what we've had
776
00:34:44,116 --> 00:34:46,683
to sit... Sit here and talk
about saving it, though.
777
00:34:46,685 --> 00:34:48,351
Nobody is stuck with me.
778
00:34:48,353 --> 00:34:49,453
And they can all leave.
779
00:34:49,455 --> 00:34:51,088
- And they--
- Well don't say that.
780
00:34:51,090 --> 00:34:54,524
- [Kody] No-- - Because that makes
people feel like you don't want them.
781
00:34:54,526 --> 00:34:57,594
I want to stay
and he still keeps saying it.
782
00:34:57,596 --> 00:35:01,398
And I'm just like,
"Dude, do you not see?
783
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,533
And do you not care
if you do see?"
784
00:35:06,771 --> 00:35:08,672
Did you ever get an answer
to that question?
785
00:35:08,674 --> 00:35:10,373
I think he sees it.
786
00:35:10,375 --> 00:35:13,844
He and I have definitely had more
conversations obviously since then.
787
00:35:13,846 --> 00:35:16,179
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
- And, you know, I think he sees it.
788
00:35:16,181 --> 00:35:18,515
And I... I know where he is.
789
00:35:18,517 --> 00:35:20,784
- And I think he knows where I am.
- Where are you?
790
00:35:20,786 --> 00:35:23,887
I mean, from where I am, like...
791
00:35:23,889 --> 00:35:28,225
It's been, like, 31 years now that,
you know, we've been married.
792
00:35:28,227 --> 00:35:30,827
And, you know,
I'm still committed.
793
00:35:30,829 --> 00:35:32,929
I've made my choice.
794
00:35:32,931 --> 00:35:33,997
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
- I'm still here.
795
00:35:33,999 --> 00:35:35,899
And I do still have hope.
796
00:35:35,901 --> 00:35:38,001
- Even--
- So you feel like there is
797
00:35:38,003 --> 00:35:43,540
a future for you and Kody as a
married couple in full fellowship together?
798
00:35:43,542 --> 00:35:45,408
I want there to be.
799
00:35:45,410 --> 00:35:48,512
- But there hasn't been, all these years?
- [Meri] Correct.
800
00:35:48,514 --> 00:35:52,249
What keeps you emotionally
invested in this relationship?
801
00:35:53,284 --> 00:35:54,551
Because I love him.
802
00:35:55,453 --> 00:35:58,321
Because when I pray,
when I meditate,
803
00:35:58,323 --> 00:36:02,726
because I have, you know, I
believe in a God and when I pray...
804
00:36:02,728 --> 00:36:06,429
And I'm like, "Okay, guide me. What
am I supposed to be doing with my life?"
805
00:36:06,431 --> 00:36:12,435
It is... I just feel peace when I
think about staying in the family.
806
00:36:12,437 --> 00:36:13,703
Because that's what I want.
807
00:36:13,705 --> 00:36:16,540
- That's what I know is right for me.
- [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
808
00:36:16,542 --> 00:36:19,643
It's like she is still part
of the family.
809
00:36:19,645 --> 00:36:20,877
- But not--
- The larger family?
810
00:36:20,879 --> 00:36:22,846
Yeah, the larger family.
But I'm not ever gonna be
811
00:36:22,848 --> 00:36:24,714
in a conjugal relationship
with her.
812
00:36:24,716 --> 00:36:28,018
Because I'm not gonna go through
that emotional torture ever again.
813
00:36:28,020 --> 00:36:29,653
And I'm not trying
to make Meri sound bad.
814
00:36:29,655 --> 00:36:31,288
It's just a bad match.
815
00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:34,658
Listen, when I say
certain things,
816
00:36:34,660 --> 00:36:36,893
I'm just trying to find a way
to be honest...
817
00:36:38,162 --> 00:36:39,863
without being cruel.
818
00:36:39,865 --> 00:36:41,598
It's one of those...
One of those things.
819
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,034
If we weren't
in plural marriage,
820
00:36:44,036 --> 00:36:47,637
or felt religiously bound
to stay together,
821
00:36:49,173 --> 00:36:51,441
I don't... You know, things
would have been a lot different
822
00:36:51,443 --> 00:36:53,577
a long time ago probably.
823
00:36:55,346 --> 00:36:59,149
We'll keep the best kind of
relationship that we possibly can.
824
00:36:59,151 --> 00:37:00,750
But I'm not telling her
to kick rocks down the road.
825
00:37:00,752 --> 00:37:03,286
I'm just telling her that she
can still be part of the family.
826
00:37:03,288 --> 00:37:04,754
We can...
We can work this out.
827
00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:09,159
So it seems like you're both
in this space...
828
00:37:10,461 --> 00:37:13,163
living friends.
829
00:37:13,898 --> 00:37:15,365
But I don't understand it.
830
00:37:15,367 --> 00:37:17,100
- I don't understand--
- Help me, I'm... I'm...
831
00:37:17,102 --> 00:37:18,435
- Listen.
- I'm in a monogamous relationship.
832
00:37:18,437 --> 00:37:20,003
- Right.
- And I know a lot of the viewers are like,
833
00:37:20,005 --> 00:37:21,438
"Okay, I'm trying
to understand."
834
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,573
I... I would think
that physicality
835
00:37:23,575 --> 00:37:26,142
would be a big part
in your relationship,
836
00:37:26,144 --> 00:37:27,477
- [Meri] Right.
- In needs, in wants,
837
00:37:27,479 --> 00:37:29,813
- in desires.
- Absolutely. Absolutely.
838
00:37:29,815 --> 00:37:32,882
I mean, and that's definitely
something that I miss.
839
00:37:32,884 --> 00:37:36,453
You know, I miss
emotional intimacy with him.
840
00:37:36,455 --> 00:37:38,622
- Right.
- You know, I miss conversations with him.
841
00:37:38,624 --> 00:37:40,023
I miss...
842
00:37:40,025 --> 00:37:42,525
- [chuckles] Physical intimacy with him. You know?
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
843
00:37:42,527 --> 00:37:44,861
Like, I would love it
if he would hold my hand.
844
00:37:44,863 --> 00:37:46,196
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
- You know?
845
00:37:46,198 --> 00:37:48,031
But that's just not
where we are.
846
00:37:48,033 --> 00:37:49,899
But when did the physicality
go out?
847
00:37:50,635 --> 00:37:52,669
It's... I don't know.
848
00:37:52,671 --> 00:37:54,437
Maybe a decade.
849
00:37:54,439 --> 00:37:56,139
- A decade ago.
- [Meri chuckles] Yeah.
850
00:37:56,141 --> 00:37:58,108
- Yeah.
- [Sukanya] So I'm gonna go back to--
851
00:37:58,110 --> 00:38:00,677
[laughs] Listen,
we're getting, like, really...
852
00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:02,812
I don't know how much
we want to get into...
853
00:38:02,814 --> 00:38:05,382
- Into this.
- Are you willing to wait forever for Kody
854
00:38:05,384 --> 00:38:10,320
to come full circle and be
in full fellowship with you?
855
00:38:10,921 --> 00:38:12,956
I have hope that he will.
856
00:38:12,958 --> 00:38:14,858
And also, if he never does...
857
00:38:16,427 --> 00:38:19,629
then, I'm gonna create
my own peace and happiness
858
00:38:19,631 --> 00:38:22,232
within the family
relationships that I do have.
859
00:38:22,234 --> 00:38:24,768
- [Sukanya] So it's the larger family?
- Yeah.
860
00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:27,337
It's the larger family
that's keeping you here
861
00:38:27,339 --> 00:38:30,707
with the hopes that Kody will one
day be in full fellowship with you?
862
00:38:30,709 --> 00:38:32,008
Like, this is my family.
863
00:38:32,010 --> 00:38:33,777
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
- Like, I don't understand...
864
00:38:33,779 --> 00:38:37,180
I literally don't understand
people who think,
865
00:38:37,182 --> 00:38:40,617
"Well, just because you don't
have this relationship with Kody,
866
00:38:40,619 --> 00:38:42,519
why don't you just leave?
867
00:38:42,521 --> 00:38:44,254
Why don't you just leave?"
868
00:38:44,256 --> 00:38:46,156
Like, because I don't want to.
869
00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:47,824
Like, I don't want to.
870
00:38:47,826 --> 00:38:52,529
I don't... Like, it doesn't make sense to
me when people ask me that all the time.
871
00:38:52,531 --> 00:38:54,364
Well, the reason why I ask that
872
00:38:54,366 --> 00:38:58,134
is because we see Christine
sort of unravelling as well.
873
00:38:58,136 --> 00:38:59,869
Because of the lack
of intimacy--
874
00:38:59,871 --> 00:39:02,238
- Sure.
- and romantic relationship
875
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,974
- within her own committed relationship to Kody.
- Right.
876
00:39:04,976 --> 00:39:09,079
And how that is a
non-negotiable thing for her.
877
00:39:09,081 --> 00:39:11,581
And then, we have you. Right?
878
00:39:11,583 --> 00:39:13,616
- Right.
- [Sukanya] Who has been in this situation
879
00:39:13,618 --> 00:39:15,852
for the last 10 years with Kody,
880
00:39:15,854 --> 00:39:19,856
who is still fully committed
to Kody and the family.
881
00:39:19,858 --> 00:39:22,525
So it... It...
It kind of doesn't make sense.
882
00:39:22,527 --> 00:39:24,060
- Right.
- So...
883
00:39:24,062 --> 00:39:28,064
- That's why people have questions.
- The only thing that I can say
884
00:39:28,066 --> 00:39:31,601
is, between Christine and I,
we just...
885
00:39:31,603 --> 00:39:33,103
Like, I don't know
what's in her head.
886
00:39:33,105 --> 00:39:35,038
I don't know
what she's thinking.
887
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,073
All I can say is
we're two different people,
888
00:39:37,075 --> 00:39:38,775
and we have two different sets
of values,
889
00:39:38,777 --> 00:39:40,243
and we have two different...
890
00:39:40,245 --> 00:39:41,244
I don't know.
891
00:39:41,246 --> 00:39:42,612
Like, we're just
different people.
892
00:39:43,314 --> 00:39:44,514
There are other wives that...
893
00:39:45,916 --> 00:39:47,384
- Meri, for instance--
- [Christine] I know.
894
00:39:47,386 --> 00:39:49,152
- I don't know how she does it.
- that's been very clear--
895
00:39:49,154 --> 00:39:51,955
- [Christine] I know.
- that she has not been intimate with Kody
896
00:39:51,957 --> 00:39:53,957
for the last...
More than 10 years.
897
00:39:53,959 --> 00:39:56,226
I know. I don't know
how she does it.
898
00:39:56,927 --> 00:39:58,194
I don't know how she does it.
899
00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:01,931
I think we just both have...
900
00:40:03,667 --> 00:40:04,734
I don't know, she does...
901
00:40:05,770 --> 00:40:08,705
I guess she's more fine
with it than I am.
902
00:40:08,707 --> 00:40:13,176
It seems like Meri, looking
back at that clip especially,
903
00:40:13,178 --> 00:40:16,946
she does wanna have a
romantic relationship with you.
904
00:40:16,948 --> 00:40:18,348
She does wanna heal.
905
00:40:18,350 --> 00:40:21,317
But there's a point
where intimacy is just damage.
906
00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:24,921
It... It... It's misleading.
907
00:40:24,923 --> 00:40:28,358
It... It's an... To... To have
intimacy in a relationship
908
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,462
where there...
There is no real safety.
909
00:40:32,997 --> 00:40:34,030
Oh.
910
00:40:34,032 --> 00:40:35,064
Yeah.
911
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:37,734
I'm not going there.
912
00:40:37,736 --> 00:40:40,570
You're telling me that
you don't feel safe with Meri?
913
00:40:40,572 --> 00:40:41,838
No, and I never will again.
914
00:40:42,473 --> 00:40:43,740
I will be her friend.
915
00:40:43,742 --> 00:40:46,042
- Wow.
- [Kody] I will do what I can to protect her.
916
00:40:46,044 --> 00:40:49,012
We'll build a house
for her out on Coyote Pass.
917
00:40:49,014 --> 00:40:52,615
But I'm never gonna feel safe
in an intimate place.
918
00:40:52,617 --> 00:40:54,617
She hurt you to the core.
919
00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:57,687
She hurt you to a place where
it cannot be fixed.
920
00:40:57,689 --> 00:40:59,322
Is that what you're telling me?
921
00:41:00,257 --> 00:41:02,592
And that wasn't
from the catfishing.
922
00:41:02,594 --> 00:41:05,495
It was just... The catfish just
woke me up out of the, um...
923
00:41:05,497 --> 00:41:07,197
Out of the daze I guess.
924
00:41:09,867 --> 00:41:12,268
So Meri's committed to staying
with the family.
925
00:41:12,270 --> 00:41:14,571
She has a relationship
with the larger family,
926
00:41:14,573 --> 00:41:17,073
the kids, Robyn, and--
927
00:41:17,075 --> 00:41:18,408
And a friendship with me.
928
00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:20,543
[Sukanya] And a friendship
with you.
929
00:41:20,545 --> 00:41:24,481
Is... Is that gonna be enough for all
of you at this moment? At this time?
930
00:41:24,483 --> 00:41:26,816
I don't think that's enough
for anybody.
931
00:41:26,818 --> 00:41:28,351
But everybody makes
their choices.
932
00:41:30,955 --> 00:41:33,790
[Sukanya] Next time on
Sister Wives: One on One.
933
00:41:33,792 --> 00:41:36,826
I'll do whatever it takes to get my
kids back together with everybody.
934
00:41:36,828 --> 00:41:41,097
You were asking why our nanny
was able to hang out with our kids.
935
00:41:41,099 --> 00:41:43,933
What does the nanny do?
936
00:41:43,935 --> 00:41:45,602
Do you feel like
you're an easy target?
937
00:41:45,604 --> 00:41:48,037
Oh, yeah. I get along
with Kody. [chuckles]
938
00:41:48,039 --> 00:41:49,539
There's a sort of pecking order.
939
00:41:49,541 --> 00:41:51,641
And Robyn's like,
"Why are you this way?"
940
00:41:51,643 --> 00:41:53,510
You really are the only one
941
00:41:53,512 --> 00:41:56,346
that's having a fully functioning
relationship with Kody.
942
00:41:56,348 --> 00:41:59,148
That must bother them.
943
00:41:59,150 --> 00:42:00,283
It makes me angry.
944
00:42:05,422 --> 00:42:08,258
[crying] I'm not gonna talk
to you.
945
00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:11,194
I don't want polygamy because I
don't believe in it for me anymore.
946
00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:12,295
We've got these great memories.
947
00:42:12,297 --> 00:42:13,429
And we've got
these beautiful children.
948
00:42:13,431 --> 00:42:14,664
And you hate polygamy.
949
00:42:14,666 --> 00:42:15,865
What the crap?
950
00:42:15,867 --> 00:42:18,301
Are we ever gonna have
an intimate marriage again?
951
00:42:18,303 --> 00:42:20,470
And he just said,
"Probably not."
952
00:42:20,472 --> 00:42:21,905
I didn't want to be intimate.
953
00:42:21,907 --> 00:42:24,774
Because I had somebody who was
stabbing me in the back.