[narrator] Previously on Sister Wives...
I've been waiting for you, honestly.
And I'm not coming.
I know that.
You know Kody and I,
we had a conversation recently that
it just kind of came down to that...
we're friends.
My relationship with Meri is not the kind of relationship where
I'm going to talk with her everyday.
And my best guess is
that her sister wives don't feel like having
an interaction with her daily either.
I'm not going anywhere. You're all stuck with me.
[chuckles]
So we follow these rules in my house,
we'll be able to get together for Christmas day.
Are you the head of the family?
I don't have a head wife in this family.
Meri, I can't be married to Kody anymore. I don't wanna...
- Just look at the mountain. - I don't wanna do it anymore.
I never wanted to be...
so estranged and have
extremely limited physical contact.
Not even hand holding. It's just sad.
[Janelle] You know, one of the really sad things that has happened
with all of this covid,
is that my boys they view their dad
as little bit antagonistic now.
So I think it has hurt their relationship.
Hi, honey.
What do you want done here, Janelle?
Do you want me to just...
Like you see. No, uh no.
See the branches that were all knocked down?
-Cause like... -Why don't I trim these too. Why don't I get them...
I guess if you want to. Just so they don't hit the car when we back out.
Kody used to have just this
smooth and easy relationship with all his kids.
They always wanted to seek him out and talk to him.
But he doesn't come over to the house,
except for something like this where we're outside.
Because of covid, it is fundamentally changed
things. Yeah.
Okay.
This right here, all we... I don't want you
to trim it all cause I like this.
So, Kody passed out all these rules.
Written down, that supposedly, he and Robyn and, you know, their nanny follow
So that-- I don't know.
So that all the risks are over compensated for, whatever.
You were asking why our nanny was able to hang out with our kids,
and none of the other kids could.
I basically have wrote down the rules
- that we have for our nanny. - Okay.
I really don't have a problem with following this list of requirements.
We'll do it for a while, so we can hang out,
but, like, we have things coming up and things that we're doing,
so I'm not gonna follow it all the time.
Yeah, I mean, some of these are great,
but clean mail with alcohol wipes? I mean it's--
You can mock it or you can find way.
I was really glad that we finally had that conversation. It was a long time coming.
You know now, I can make a plan
to get together with Robyn and her kids.
I haven't really been able to interact with the kids since covid.
It's been like, what, six or eight months.
I don't even know.
Okay, so basically then Kody, I don't think it's
gonna ever work for us all to get together.
Listen, these are the rules
for me to be able to come to your house.
Those are different set rules.
These the rules for us to be able to actually
associate as family.
All right, let's get this to a normal path.
I need to talk to your dad.
Kicking me out of outside?
I'm having a conversation with you guys a little bit later.
I just felt like maybe I could have acted a little bit better.
And I just want to make sure that
he and I are good, I need to clear the air.
Honey, I... I owe you an apology. Um...
You know the other day when you rolled out the rules,
I freaked out because I'm doing most of those things.
But there was a couple extra steps that I'm not doing,
that somehow just made me feel like I couldn't breathe.
Like it was too much.
Like, you know, I'm doing everything.
I'm hand sanitizing, washing my hands,
social distancing, wearing a mask.
But there were some extra things like wiping down your groceries,
leaving your mail outside for 24 hours.
Like it just feels like a little bit, like I'm being held a prisoner.
So, you're saying that
you thought it was a problem, but it's not a problem now.
I'm still struggling with it, but, you know,
I'll do what we need to do for Christmas.
It's what you and Robyn have embraced.
- And... - What's with I see fitting,
and Robyn's compliant to.
-Yeah -I think it's...
easy for her simply because
she sees the value in protecting our family.
This value statement all the time is what he throws at me, all the time.
'Cause she sees the value in doing what I think...
and then like okay, that's great that all her children are home.
That's great.
Like that's great. She doesn't have to make any hard decisions,
her kids all stays home. 'Cause she's so compliant. She's so...
She sees the value and I'm like dude my life is really different.
I've really struggled
with my mental health through this thing.
Don't you think that'll improve if I'm able to be home?
If Garrison and Gabriel can cease their social lives,
then I can come home.
Garrison is very close to being able to save his down payment.
If I can give him three more months at home,
and he's not really that social anyway.
Garrison is really the reason that Kody is staying away right now.
And Garrison is actually been home for the last six or eight months
saving his money like crazy 'cause he wants to buy a house.
I'm not gonna kick him out, this close to that goal.
I mean, for you to feel like you could come back here, it's about all of those rules.
The alcohol, groceries and everything?
I'm making all the sacrifices and I'm asking everybody else
to simply meet that level of sacrifice
so that this family can exist.
So you would have it so that we don't go to the grocery store...
You can go to the grocery store.
Make it one person, you socially distance while you're there,
you come home, you change your clothes.
The level of paranoia for me that is like, it's so weird.
We don't even know if it's gonna work.
But anything that I can do to prevent it
is a smart idea. You know, why?
'Cause I got a four year old who needs a dad till she's 21.
And she just represents the entire family.
That includes Savanah, that includes Truely,
that includes Solomon. That includes...
I didn't expect that you'd come over and be so aggressive with me.
I'm getting aggressive because I don't feel like you're hearing the point.
I am hearing and you're not hearing me that
I'm sorry that I freaked out because it wasn't little things,
but it was just one thing too much.
Janelle, it's okay that you freaked out.
Okay, hurt my feelings, that's no big deal.
Hurt my feelings because I'm like, isn't it worth it
for us to be or to be back together?
- My point is why don't we-- - See, the thing is--
You just think I'm doing overkill.
Well, I don't. I mean is that really...
I have to do all those things in order,
'cause that wasn't the rules this summer.
I didn't wipe down my groceries...
That's the rules about getting the family back together.
For the rules for me to come back home?
Is getting Garrison and Gabriel
to maintain a social distance from the house or from their front peers.
My boys think that they're fine
so going out and continuing social life,
while I'm making these humongous sacrifices.
And you are too because I... You and I are not able to
see each other, I'm not able to see Savanah.
Well, I mean, Gabriel's not obviously gonna stop seeing his girlfriend.
I mean, at 20 would you have stopped
- seeing your girlfriend? - I did. I went on a mission.
And for two years, I didn't date.
And for two years I basically socially distanced from women.
What do you think of Gabriel's girlfriend moving in for a couple of weeks?
So...
I'm not answering that question.
If I answer the negative,
then I am restricting them from being around each other.
If I answer the positive,
then I am contradicting my religious views.
And you know what, the whole freaking family is just thrown those out the window.
She has her own apartment. She is not moving in, but
for the two weeks or whatever before Christmas,
'cause she's gonna be here over the break. She's got a job.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Just vomit more [bleep]. Vomit more [bleep].
God I'm just sick of it.
So, Garrison is okay at his job.
Yeah, but is Garrison gonna really cut his social life?
Kody, he doesn't go now.
His friends have all moved away.
In fact, I've been kinda worried about him because he's...
- A little bit lonely like he's not-- - That's why he wants me
back now is because he is lonely
and all summer long he didn't need me,
but was gonna doing this stuff I didn't even know about it.
See, I think you assume the worst and I assume the best.
- It's not fair to me-- - I think the truth...
I think the truth is somewhere in between.
It's not as bleak as you think it was.
Yeah, but still my point is, it's not fair to me and you,
in our life we're suppose to be able to have
with our kids that is suppose to be at home.
Whatever happened to Team Brown?
And I don't wanna sit here and alienate my children with what they think is stupid,
and I'm frankly tired of their criticism of my standards.
And I've already sacrificed so much for seven months,
that I feel like, what do I just drop my pants now and go,
oh, I'm not gonna fight anymore to keep my family healthy?
And what I've tried to do is I've tried to lead by example by doing this at this level,
and let everybody else choose what they do,
but then actually have the consequences,
and it looks to me like nobody really cares if I'm at home.
We really are kind of responsible to each other.
And what's happened is, now they don't care to answer to each other or to me.
But I'm still answering to them.
Once again, more polygamy double standard.
- All right, well-- - I mean, I think you think it's silly.
No, I don't, I just don't know how to reconcile it,
- because I can't leave my boys hanging out-- - They're adults.
Bye-bye.
Listen, I've been sympathetic to this situation with Janelle and her kids...
this entire time.
And I tolerated a lot for a very long time,
until I realized that I was being lied to or deceived.
And at that point, was when I sort of lost my patience with it.
I'm like, "You need to just make the boys move out."
When you're 21, karmically I've given you all you need.
You've got a good car, you got get a job, here's some cash. Bye.
I'm on the verge of washing my hands off it.
I'm gonna have Gabrielle and Garrison move out of the house.
I'm sorry, here's the problem, Janelle's name is on the lease
so I can't evict them.
You know my dad sent me out with a car that I earned...
- I know. - and $50.
You know, he is like, my dad kicked me out at 18
and sent me with a crappy car to go live in Utah, whatever.
Look you know what? I am not just that parent.
This is a different day and age.
You don't just kick your kids out of the house at 18 and say, hope you do good.
Do I feel like I have had higher standards all my life
and I trying this expectation
that nobody else can even fall into, like it's...
It's just ridiculous.
But in plural marriage,
what one person does affects everybody else.
Okay, well. I'll talk to the boys.
Sure.
This is the same conversation we have all the time.
We circle, we circle, we circle, we circle,
we circle, we circle, we circle,
and nothing is resolved.
I am done. I am tired. I am done.
Done with this conversation.
Dad wants to play stupid games,
we can play... we can play along.
And you'd be lying to dad.
Gabe and I've got jobs.
Sorry, it has been eight months
since I have been able to hang out with my dad.
Of course, I am going to rebel a little.
Like, I am tired of it. I'm freakin' tired of it.
Let's bring dad here and I'll yell at him.
Okay, I am trying here.
Kody just left.
So, I now need to bring up the new rules
with my kids and see how they feel about the holidays.
Okay. Hey, guys okay,
I just talked to dad a little bit go.
So, here's...
I can't meet.
- Perfect for harvesting. - Hey guys.
Pay attention please.
I am not really optimistic.
I don't even really want to tell them these rules
because I know what their reactions are going to be.
Okay, so for the whole family. I am not going to show you the list.
- List? - For the whole family to get together,
it requires everything we are doing now... masks,
distancing, hand sanitizer,
but it also requires when we go to the grocery store,
we change our clothes when we come home,
we wipe down our mail or let it sit outside for 24 hours,
and that we wipe down our groceries, when we come home.
Cool. See you February.
Okay.
Not even Christmas?
You won't even do it for two weeks before Christmas?
Not if I get a job. No.
Well jobs...
Jobs are the exception.
Well, I don't know. It depends on how careful you are being.
Okay, so we are making an exception for work,
but we are not making any exception for our mail?
- I just need to present facts. - I know.
I'll cooperate with you, but I am mad at dad.
- Guys. - This is stupid.
Okay. It's everything we are doing now,
except for the groceries and the mail.
And the changing clothes, and the not seeing my girlfriend,
and the not getting a job and the...
We will do it and we will tell dad that we did it.
- No, no that doesn't work. - 'Cause he won't know.
- That works for me. - You can never do that, honey.
Dad wants to play stupid games. We can play along.
You would be lying to dad.
- Gabe and I got jobs. - Sorry, it's been eight months
since I have been able to hang out with my dad,
and of course, I am going to rebel a little.
Like, I am tired of it. I am freakin' tired of it.
Gabriel has always felt like he and his dad had a pretty close relationship
so he feels this like rejection.
Okay, so that's a really big conversation, let's bring it down.
- So, let's bring dad here and I'll yell at him. - No.
Okay, I am trying here.
Listen, dad's going to be a child about this.
- No. - No. He is not.
- He is not. - He can be.
- He wants to tear the family. - If you are going to say that about dad
then you have to acknowledge that we are being childish too.
We are
Okay. Yes, everybody is angry on both sides.
Can we figure out what works...
- We can... Dad... - for the holidays.
Dad can figure out how not to tear apart his family
- over something so stupid. - Okay, I don't think...
I don't think we have to go to extremes.
- Okay guys look... - Mom, it has been nine months.
I am emotional too. Okay?
Someone could have gotten pregnant
and had a baby in the time that we haven't seen dad.
All of them are talking about how I have not been around all year long
and that's not true.
I have been at these places like every month.
All that's in question, right now,
because I got to bring this conversation in small.
Pregnant and baby.
Thanksgiving, Christmas.
Kody and I didn't raise children to be sheeple.
Like, we are not sheeple raisers.
We raised children who, unfortunately,
are as opinionated and stubborn as we are.
And that's a good thing in most situations.
Not so good now.
Do we want to spend Thanksgiving with the whole family?
- Yes. - Yeah.
- It would require... - Okay. We will do it.
- no socializing. - No socializing. We'll do it.
- Nope. - If I can survive without socializing
- you guys can survive without socializing. I promise you. - No.
- No. I can't. - Nope. Nope.
- I am not going to be... - Do you like that?
I am not going to be away from my girlfriend for that long and I am not going to lie.
Is she really that important to you?
Her birthday is Thanksgiving.
Assuming that the infection rates don't go crazy,
we could go spend Thanksgiving
you know with either our extended family in Utah.
You can spend Thanksgiving with dad.
- Gabe and I will go and find a hotel. - No.
No. That doesn't...
Yeah. We could turn up.
I don't want to do Thanksgiving
without all of my kids that are able to be with me.
I am not going to have them go down to some hotel
for two weeks or something. I am just not gonna...
No, no, no.
Okay, can I say that for one, this is very unfair for mom as well,
because you guys don't want to do it dad doesn't want to do it
and mom in this like really hard placed.
No. That's what we are saying to mom right now.
We are saying Mom, you should do it,
but I can't do that.
- I can't do that. - I am sure, mom.
-You can do this entire part -You can do this and tear apart our family I don't care.
Garrison, you are really close to having a down payment.
Then it's dad's problem, not mine.
Like, we are not going to play this game anymore.
- I'm not really interested in being drastic. - I am not mad out at you.
I am trying to be dead mad at dad.
I am not trying to be drastic.
I am trying to find out a solution.
- We are tired of not seeing our dad. - He has 19 other kids.
- He has 15 other kids... - How about the fact that he has been at Robyn's
for nine months.
You know, I know Robyn, bless her heart,
Robyn has to make the decisions that she makes
because she is trying to make it so Kody can see the kids.
My life is very different.
I have independent adult children that I live with.
I don't know what Kody does with his time. I don't' track it.
- Guys, okay, look. - This is stupid.
I am going to call dad right now and I will tell him...
I am going to be like Dad, sorry I'll see you February.
Guys, okay. Bring it in.
We are going to talk about Thanksgiving and Christmas.
So, I think in the past nine months
since Covid has been around,
we have probably seen Kody just a handful of times honestly.
Listen, I am open to going to Thanksgiving somewhere.
I already told dad pretty much I thought that's what we would do.
Isn't Christine travelling too?
I know... I don't know... I don't know.
We are going to get together in a day or so and she is going to.
- We are going to decide. - Then decide--
If she is travelling and she is cool with it
why don't we just do Thanksgiving with Christine?
- Dad can do his [bleep], and we will do ours. - Okay.
If Christine is travelling, would you want to travel...
- Yes, yes. - or would we--
I would absolutely love that.
If we have the family together all socially distant, we will figure it out.
- Okay, so, if Christine decides to stay here... - Then, let's stay.
And you would just...
-And I would social distance -Social distance and hang out with...
But I am not gonna...
- I am not gonna... - No. I don't want you to stop seeing your girlfriend.
And Christine doesn't care if I see my girlfriend.
I will go over to her house.
My kids are very attached to Christine. I mean they are.
I love Janelle's kids. I adore them.
They're just part of my soul.
I am with you whatever you want to do because essentially you are my lifeline, Mom.
You are the only way I get around anywhere.
So, I don't really have a choice.
But we are going to talk to dad about this. This is ridiculous.
I am tired of it. It is literally ruining our family.
No, this whole day has been exhausting.
I think I am going to now and put on my pajamas
and watch TV for the rest of the night because I am brain fried.
I mean, my kids, my boys and Kody.
They are in these very opposite camps and there is no given and take.
It is just talk, talk, talk.
Try to convince, convince, convince your point of view.
That's it.
I have been trying for nine months
to get us to find some sort of middle ground
and there is no give on any side.
You know when I went to Kody and I was like,
how in the heck are you guys doing this?
I am just trying to... I am just...
I am trying...
It's like...
I don't know.
Kody came and stayed for like five or six days and I am kind of like, wow.
This is lot of work.
I had Kody at my house like once or twice a week.
Lately, it has been constantly.
And, I am sure that every plural wife is like,
"That's the way you want it." And I am like...
[Janelle] With our social distancing,
we aren't celebrating birthdays together.
So, I still did get a gift for Robyn. Her birthday was recently.
So, I am going to go drop it off.
- Hey. - Hey.
I have a birthday present for you.
- Oh. - I don't know if you want to
- spray it down or whatever. - Oh.
So, one of the rules that Kody says that he and Robyn and Mary, I guess, follow
is it they wipe down all the mail, or spray it.
Whatever's coming into the house, groceries, with disinfectant.
- What is it? - So this is a warmer so your towels are hot.
Like I'm not someone who wraps presents.
I-I don't do well at it and just I'm not someone
who necessarily thinks it's all that important.
- Oh, cool. - Like a spa.
- [chuckles] - So...
You give gifts that make me self-care.
Janelle's always giving gifts that are all about like
kinda, taking care of yourself.
I really need this.
Yeah, I've become really big about that, like, the last...
four-five years, for sure.
My wives sometimes will do super gifts for each other.
Like this towel warmer is, like, genius.
But when you receive like an angel every single year.
Or a nutcracker.
If you have a collection of nutcrackers,
it does not mean I want more nutcrackers
for Christmas, you know what I mean.
- Do you wanna visit for a lil' bit? - Sure, yeah.
- Let me... Let me pull this inside. - Okay.
And go ahead and sit down, uh...
On these chairs over here?
Yeah, just whatever you want over there.
There's camping chair and then there's...
Cool.
I never think I wanna live in the trees.
But when I come up here I'm like, you know...
See what, I think clearing 'em around the house is better.
'Cause, like, you're in the trees, but you still have some blue sky.
I mean, it is nice 'cause I feel like
it's a whole different place here.
It'll make a great rental for when we build that on our property.
If we ever get there.
Oh, no, it's happening.
It has to happen. [soft chuckle]
- That's all I think about. - I mean we're so close.
But, I mean, the whole COVID thing
shut down a lot of the interaction.
That's been really, really stressful.
Like I've been really, like...
Really, I've been trying to mind my P's and Q's,
but I've been really worried about,
like, you and Kody and stuff.
The distance and stuff like that.
I've really been struggling, you know, and I went to Kody and I was, like,
"How in the heck are you guys doing this?
How could you be okay with this?
How is she okay with this?"
I'm just... [sighs] I'm just trying to...
I'm trying, uh, it's like, [sighs]
I don't know. It just makes me worried.
But he was saying that, like, in the past you guys did do times
- where you guys were apart, but it was... - Yeah.
You know, it wasn't like a separation or anything. It was...
Yeah, like, so one time it was eight months.
- Yeah, that's what he said. - And, it's just,
kinda, like, he wanted to move and I'm like, "Eh...
I have a pretty good job here. I don't know."
[chuckles] Yeah, he told me that and I was like, what?
Back when we were living in Wyoming,
and Kody decided he needed to go to Utah for better employment options,
I had just gotten settled into a career
in Wyoming, we had these houses.
They moved and I, uh,
it was always, like, seems like it's about the moves
they were gonna move and I'm like,
"Nah, I got a good thing. See you later.
I'll come in a while, may be."
'Cause, I mean, I had a job and I had a steady income
and it was good for the family for me to keep this steady income and it was...
I don't know.
A big part of Kody and I's relationship is conversation.
Incessantly talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.
We talk all the time.
We couldn't accomplish that over the phone.
Look, we have six children, okay,
so there is more than just conversations going on.
'Cause I get accused of that too.
I think, I really...
I love polygamy for me.
Like, 'cause I can see that in a monogamous relationship
I probably just couldn't be like,
"You go. I'll see you in a while."
You know what I mean?
- "Go live there for eight months, I'm fine." - "See if it works out."
"See if it works out. May be, I'll follow."
I mean, so that's kinda nice for me I've always liked that freedom.
'Cause, like, I get really antsy, if I feel like
I can't make the choices that control my own life.
Like, okay, so, I think, that's why I, kinda, freaked out the other day.
'Cause like, look, I'm masking.
You know, I'm being, pretty much, all those things,
but the extra few steps were just like,
"Whoa!" That's too many of choices being taken away
or something. Or too many of my something being taken away.
There are different ideas about what the rules are to be safe.
I do, kind of what the CDC says,
masks, sanitize, social distance,
but Kody has a whole another list of rules that include
grocery pick-up, changing your clothes when you come in.
I just, fundamentally, rebel at that much control
and it's just too much for me.
I just... Yes, everybody's gotta choose and they get
their choice, and that's what's so beautiful about our life.
- I can see now... - Yeah.
that I was, probably, always destined to live in a plural family.
And it works for me a lot.
Yeah, um, could you please figure this out
- so I could be in a plural family again? - [both laughing]
With you? [laughs]
Oh my gosh, I'm like...
I'm like, "This is what it'd be like to be-
- It would, kinda, make me... - I never signed up for monogamy. I never did.
[chuckles]
[Robyn] So, Kody and I have been married for about ten-and-a-half years.
And throughout those ten-and-a-half years,
I've had Kody at my house like once or twice a week.
Um, lately, it's been constantly.
And, you know, I'm sure that every plural wife
is like, "Whoo, that's the way you want it,"
and I'm like...
But that's not what I signed out for, I guess, I should say.
And then, on top of that, he's been really unhappy.
He's been a really unhappy person.
And, so it's been a lot and it's been a challenge for our relationship.
Right before Hunter left, Kody came and stayed
for five or six days and I'm, kinda, like...
"Wow! This is a lot of work."
I mean, like, honestly, like, he stayed for almost a week before Hunter left,
and I thought, "Oh my word."
Like I don't have my freedom.
I do... like my independence.
I really do.
And when Kody's around, it's fine.
We do have a tendency to have more fun when he's not there though.
Listen, Linda.
I'm just saying they could send him my direction
if they need a break from him.
It's not what I signed up for. I mean, like,
I mean, I know this sounds just really...
funky, but, like, I had,
you know, people that wanted to date me and that I was, you know, kind of, you know,
friendly with, or whatever.
They talked about living, you know, they wanted to get more serious.
A couple wanted to marry me, kind of a thing.
- And I was like, "No, I wanna live plural marriage." - Yeah.
If I wanted to live monogamy, I could have.
I mean, like, it's not like...
I had no other choices.
I could've had a very happy, successful relationship with some other men.
It's just the truth.
I'm sorry, I hate saying it 'cause it sounds like
I'm bragging or something, but I'm not, it's just is the truth.
I had proposals before Kody
and I turned them down.
And I said, "No, I wanna live plural marriage," and
here I am and I'm like, "Hey, guys...
I wanna live plural marriage."
Yeah, I don't really have any desire...
- to not live plural marriage. - Yeah.
A lot of independence.
I could just go to bed with a book and I love it.
- Love it. Love it. Yeah. - I know and that's not
really something that happens when Kody's there.
It's a different type of routine.
And I like that independence, you know,
I do too.
- Yeah. - I'm starting to get really cold.
Okay. I have been really, like, surprised
and kinda horrified in ways because I've been like,
"Wait, I thought we were this cohesive unit."
We haven't been.
And, it's been a huge disappointment for me.
- [Robyn] It as good to see ya. - It was good to visit.
Yeah, yeah. All right.
- See you soon. - See ya. Take care.
I guess it is, what it is.
I just have to respect where she's at.
So you're going to Utah?
Janelle is indicating by her actions
that she would rather have the boys around than me.
You don't think I'm aware? You don't think I'm into being careful?
I think you understand where I'm at
I think you understand what I'm talking about
and I want you to just respect that.
Yeah, [bleep] off.
[Christine] Hey, we're in a different spot.
- Just gotta change it up a little bit. - I like it.
So, hopefully, now that we're in November
and the holidays are literally upon us,
we can make a definite decision
on what to do and how to do it.
So that the family can start interacting again.
This is great.
So we're gonna meet together again.
My position hasn't changed.
I mean, initially, Kody came up with this list of rules.
That I actually wondered where this list had been
for the last nine months, but whatever.
So the list is now in existence.
And, supposedly, these are the rules that they are following
at Robyn's house, that Kody wants us all to embrace.
You have to take this like you would
religion and scripture.
I mean, we are doing most of these things,
but we don't wipe our mail.
We don't wipe our groceries.
[Robyn] Janelle, come on. [chuckles]
No, I mean, I'm sorry, I think this is overkill.
So think, it was really, we paused the last meeting
'cause it was getting a little bit intense.
We're coming back together again to finalize our plans.
- Hi, ladies. - [Janelle] Hi.
How's it going?
[Janelle] Like, it's a real, huge, point of contention.
Maybe the biggest...
problem we've ever had in our marriage,
our biggest contention, maybe, in our whole marriage has been this.
On that note, ladies, we're here because of holidays?
I think we just... I thought, it would be good to come back and just,
kinda, make a final plan.
My boys are pretty much orbiting Christine.
No, okay, so I need to say my children...
Like, Christine is huge in their world.
She was the one who stayed with 'em when they were younger and I was working.
They said to me, "Mom, we'll do whatever Christine does."
"If Christine decides to stay here, then we'll stay here."
So, I mean, we're inclined to travel for Thanksgiving
and be here for Christmas.
But my boys, uh, it's, honestly, Christine,
your make or break, what they're gonna wanna do.
Oh, gosh!
- No pressure. No pressure. - It's a lot of responsibility.
[Christine] That is way too much pressure.
I don't know, this is just all new information for me too.
I don't know if we're gonna be able to get together or not
which is really, really, super hard and heart-breaking.
I get it!
They wanna focus on doing things with Christine
Christine doesn't make any rules or make anybody abide by them.
I'm the heavy in the family.
Um, I talked to Aspyn and Mitch,
Mykelti, Tony and Paedon had told them all the rules
that they needed follow if they want to come here for Christmas.
And they said, they couldn't follow them.
I talked to my girls and told them,
"You know, whatever you wanna do."
We can do the two week quarantine really strict.
Or we could still go to Aspyn and Mitch's
whatever you wanna do." And they wanna go to
Aspyn and Mitch's.
So we're going to go to Aspyn and Mitch's for Thanksgiving,
but we will be here for Christmas.
I was dreading telling them so much and so I just,
said it at the very beginning of the conversation and got it done with.
'Cause I was so worried how they would take it.
I know that it's hard.
That I am making a conscious decision
to separate us for a family holiday.
So, you are going to Utah?
- [Robyn] I think so, yeah. - And you are going to Utah?
[Meri] Wow.
They are all saying they wanna get back together,
but Christine has made it clear to me now,
that she would rather be with Aspyn and Mitch
and Tony and Mykelti than with me.
And Janelle is indicating by her actions
that she would rather have the boys around than me.
[Robyn] So, this is gonna be weird.
This will be my first Thanksgiving without everybody.
- Well, you guys will do Thanksgiving, right? - I know.
I am talking about everybody. Everybody, everybody.
I am not everybody. I know I like to think that I am.
- [Christine chuckles] - [Meri laughing] Right?
I don't think that's what you--
Yeah, Meri. We cannot do Thanksgiving together.
I'll do Thanksgiving with you, Robyn.
It's a little frustrating.
Because everybody's been complaining and making comments
"Why can't we get together? Why can't we get together?"
Well, now we can and you choose not to.
What have I been doing, like, for the past six months?
Why have I been doing this, you know?
Well, I appreciate where everybody's at.
- And, um... - [Robyn] You appreciate it?
Yeah, I mean everybody's making choices about where they are going.
You mean respect it?
- [Kody] I respect it. Yeah. - Okay. Appreciate...
I don't like the word appreciate. Can I just...
- Can I just, uh... - [Kody] Well, okay.
I am gonna respect what everybody's position is.
But I do wanna say this that we do have an obligation.
We have an obligation to a very large amount of people.
[inhales] To be able to keep working.
You know, we all work with people. And this issue of covid
becomes very economic issue for our family
and the families of those people we do business with.
[Kody] Garrison works with people. He could harm them.
Christine has an employee. That employee could get it... take it to their family.
It could destroy them. Destroy their livelihood.
You know I think I have struggled to communicate
where I am at because I realized
that the boys really just don't get why we're doing what we're doing.
'Cause not a foot soldier here.
I am, really, kind of a general,
whether I am good at it or not.
Our struggles in our family relationships
is probably because I suck at them.
[Janelle] I felt all of a sudden Kody's doing this bait and switch.
It's like, "Oh, I respect it. But I am gonna put you on this guilt trip,
so that you will change your mind."
So, I don't really respect it. But I am gonna tell you I respect your decision.
But I am not telling you how to live your life, anymore.
[Kody] You guys are independent women. You can do whatever you want.
I would ask you, seriously, to consider,
a much bigger picture, the picture that I have to see.
No guilt trip. Just a little prick to you conscience,
and you guys decide what to do.
'Cause I am not gonna tell this family how they do it.
I am going to lead the way that I think is the right way.
He is not trying to guilt trip us.
I am pretty sure that was a guilt trip.
If he wants me to make a choice between him and my kids,
my kids will always win.
Every single time.
[Janelle] You understand that if I stay here, I would be alone.
Like alone. At Thanksgiving.
- [Kody] That's... - And do you think I am going off...
- Sweetheart, that is a choice you are making based on... - To not... to not like...
You think I am going off and I am just not gonna wear a mask...
- [Janelle] And not do other things? - No, nope, nope.
[Kody] I am not making accusations. I am asking you people to consider.
And then... and then shoulder that responsibility for yourself.
Because I have certainly shouldered a lot of responsibility.
He acts like I am not doing anything.
I wear a mask. I social distance. I sanitize my hands.
I do all the things that the CDC says to do.
But because I don't follow all of his ten commandments, his rules,
I am not following any rules, apparently.
That's all I have gotta say about that.
I hope everyone enjoys their Thanksgiving.
Well, I guess, I am out. I am leaving.
[Janelle laughs]
[Christine] I am 100% have a clear conscience.
- [Kody] Okay. - [Christine] On the choice I have made for Thanksgiving.
Well, I have told you this so that you could share with your children
so they can understand the perspective instead of...
making phone calls to me, telling me,
Dad, hey, you are really...
Your rules are taking a toll on our family.
You can continue in the vain of your little world,
but I want you to understand mine.
But it sounds like a guilt trip
for the choices that I am making so I am not alone.
- Kody there would be no way... - It's about--
There is no way that Garrison will be out of the house
in time for me to be clear for Thanksgiving.
So, I would be alone. So, why would I wanna stay and be alone?
Jul, this is actually a play as much as anything.
- So, that you and I can have... - It sounded like a guilt trip.
Like, "I hope you know that you are jeopardizing all these people."
You don' think I am aware? You don't think, I mean, being careful?
Okay.
I think you understand where I am at.
I think you understand what I am talking about.
And I think you understand the big picture that I have
and I want you to just respect that.
Okay?
Yeah, [bleep] off.
Am I being a bully?
I don't understand why Janelle felt like she have to left.
'Cause Janelle's hands were tied, Kody.
Janelle's living in a home, where her kids are adults.
And they are making the decision to hang out socially.
And she is got you on one end of the spectrum.
And then, maybe Gabe on the other end of the spectrum.
And she probably feels different everyday.
She is getting crap from both sides.
Your speech was very forceful. I know you are probably trying to be polite,
and she probably has to deal with that kind of crap from her kids.
All day long.
I think it's irresponsible for him as a leader of the family
to ignore half of his family.
And not be with them at all. I think that's irresponsible.
If he is the dad of all these kids...
Whatever. Everyone's gotta make their own choices. He does too.
People are making choices. And I feel like I am getting blamed.
And I guess, that's just the way it is.
[Kody sighs]
Here's the thing. This is what I know about myself.
I know that if somebody in this family dies,
it's gonna be a bunch of other people I hate because of it.
I think Christine hates me
partly because Truely almost died.
And she thought that I had been negligent.
Okay. Changes relationships.
[sinister instrumental music playing]
[Christine] I am taking Truely to the doctor. She is lethargic.
She doesn't have a lot of energy. She is just sitting there.
[Christine] You wanna see the doctor?
[softly] Yeah.
- [Robyn] Did you see the text from Christine? - What's wrong?
Well, Truely. She has taken her to the emergency room.
To the emergency?
- [Kody] One of the nurses told us... - [Christine sobs]
She said normally cases like this, we don't expect them to leave.
[Christine sobbing]
The reason I have never brought this up before
is because I didn't feel like I had to make the arguments so forcefully in the past.
I don't wanna have one of my children die.
And then me hate the people, who weren't doing the rules.
And then end up in a divorce with whoever...
Whoever's child died, 'cause that's pretty much a given anymore
in our culture.
I am sad that you are not gonna be here for Thanksgiving
but I understand.
- [Robyn sighs] - Sorry, it's because of the...
Kids just... They can't do it.
And, it's been a long time since we've seen them.
And they are missing everybody. And the girls miss them so much.
- All I am thinking is... - It's hard, isn't it?
- You run into... - It is hard.
- to play with the people who are breaking the rules... - I know.
- [Kody mumbles] - I know, I know how you feel about that.
Makes me jealous, in a way.
[Robyn laughs]
But I mean because they are rules that I have imposed upon myself
for good reason. But they... It makes me jealous.
[Meri] Every time I see somebody on social media,
getting together with their friends, hangin' out,
and I am like, I wanna do that.
- [Robyn laughs] - I wanna be with my people.
- I wanna hug. I wanna... - Yeah.
You know. And I literally have spent this summer here.
I don't know why this couldn't have been resolved, like,
four or five months ago.
You know, like, what am I supposed to say? You know, he's...
spending the time at Robyn's 'cause she is following the rules.
He's not spending the time at Christine's because she is not following the rules.
He's not spending time at my house
because he just doesn't spend time at my house
but I am following the rules.
I honestly don't even know what to say here.
How I can even contribute to this conversation?
[sinister instrumental music playing]
[water splashing]
So, I just left the discussion about the holidays,
which I thought was gonna be a little team conversation.
Um...
And you know, I guess, I am just frustrated,
because I am between a rock and a hard place here.
I am having to make sure that my kids are safe. My kids are mentally well.
I am giving them the best chance and then I am having to choose,
these rules that the family has,
which aren't very different from my rules.
That I am stuck. I am stuck here.
And I am like, I don't wanna spend Thanksgiving alone.
My family's all being quarantined. I am not being dangerous here.
Look, I mean, he is just condescending.
He is acting like I am making irresponsible decisions.
He acts like I don't have a big picture. That is not the case.
And it's frustrating to me that he's trying to make
it sound like I am all these horrible things.
[Kody reading]
This is so stupid. This is not how a family should operate.
I am tired of being questioned. I am just tired of it.
This isn't the family that I signed up for.
There's like a wedge between us.
I am just worried if it's gonna start making them
start wanting to be around the family.
Because they don't care to be around us.
[Janelle] Hey, here we are. Having Thanksgiving.
Alone.
[Christine] I am just glad that
I didn't let covid control my life.
[Kody] To our family.
To the coronapocalypse.
The contrast made me aware of those who are loyal to me.
And those who are not.