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[suspenseful music playing]
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[Sukanya] The past year
has been a tumultuous one
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00:00:06,689 --> 00:00:08,000
for the Brown family.
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I don't know how you do it,
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because he's not
who you married.
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He's not who I married.
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I don't want Robyn
to see this.
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I don't want her to know
how dark I've gotten.
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[Sukanya]
From explosive arguments...
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[Kody] But I've...
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Shut your [bleep] mouth
and let me talk to you
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for a minute.
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No, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no.
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- No...
- [Kody] No.
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you stay and talk.
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I'm done listening to you.
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[bleep] you.
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[Sukanya]
To painful revelations.
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So sometimes
you still hate me?
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In my heart, I just never
wanna see her again.
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I'm not married
to him anymore.
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So freaking awesome.
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[Sukanya] With life-changing
consequences.
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You and me.
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He said,
don't you understand, Meri,
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this is never going to happen.
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[crying]
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You want something
that we can't have together.
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Screw him.
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He's not worth it.
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[Sukanya]
Over the next four hours,
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I'm sitting down with Kody,
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Meri, Janelle,
Christine, and Robyn,
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to talk about
some of the biggest
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and most dramatic moments
of their lives.
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- You made this...
- [Kody] Accountability.
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...about all these
other problems that we have
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that we can't sweep under.
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- I did not.
- This became...
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- Yes, you did.
- I did not. I did not.
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- You're an alcoholic.
- I did not.
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Have you guys
fought like this before?
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No, no, I don't think
we've ever fought like this.
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That moment
I was thinking to myself,
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I don't ever wanna talk
to Janelle again.
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You have six kids.
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You know, that's...
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Sorry.
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That's worth fighting for.
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[Sukanya] Were you
in love with Meri
when you married her?
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I told her I loved her
and I chose to love her.
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You should have told me,
because I'm still sitting here
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holding on to the idea
that maybe
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you might get your head
outta your butt.
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[Sukanya] Meri did ask her
to be there, but...
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I know. It's because Robyn
says that she can speak Kody.
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And I'm like [bleep].
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Sorry. Okay.
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Sorry. I'm gonna be nice.
No, I'm not.
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Well, Kody can speak
for himself.
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He's a grown ass man.
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He would ask me to do things
and ask me to be a certain way
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or ask me to fix
a certain situation,
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but it's not good enough.
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[Kody] They're trash
talking me because I'm guilty
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of not loving them.
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Is he sabotaging
your relationship?
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He tries to.
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I have to stop him
all the time.
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You can't talk about Robyn.
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She's the one
that's loyal to me.
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So if you had any
kind of a disagreement,
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you weren't safe.
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I don't think Christine knows
Robyn at all.
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Nah. She was a [bleep]
sister wife.
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She'll probably, and I hope,
be a very good wife for David.
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- Have you met David?
- [Janelle] Yes.
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Well, I think he's great.
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I'm engaged.
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I'm getting married
to the love of my life.
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Christine has to destroy
my character
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or David doesn't feel
like he can marry her
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because she left a good man.
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Sorry, I don't know
how to let this go.
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And this isn't me
just being dramatic.
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Thank you, Christine.
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Could I just be me
sometimes with Kody?
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No.
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But it isn't it not
about him hearing you?
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Isn't it about you
being heard?
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Oh, my voice will be heard.
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I will no longer be silenced.
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[Sukanya] This is
Sister Wives: One on One.
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[Robyn] Today,
I'm getting ready
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for our one-on-one interview.
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I am feeling nauseous
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and not feeling
very good right now.
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It's where we go
and, like, tell it how it is.
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People really speak
their mind
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and some of the things
they say, I'm like, wow.
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I didn't know. Wow.
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[Christine] There were so
many times in Flagstaff
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that I was sad.
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And every time I go back,
it's like,
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I have to get back
into that mentality again
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and everything.
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And it's just...
It's really difficult.
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[Kody] Well,
I'm usually kind of
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really, really low-key,
just easy.
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The nerves don't get
to me much
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until I'm there
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and then all of a sudden
I just get terribly nervous.
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I am not looking forward
to going back at all.
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There's other people
I don't need to see,
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so it's just hard.
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It's really, um,
emotionally draining.
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[Robyn speaking]
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[Meri speaking]
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You know, you make choices
when you're young
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and you do everything you can
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to do good by those choices.
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You know, you get older
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and you don't like
those choices.
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And, uh, you know, like,
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it's been basically
the breakup song.
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[Sukanya] Hey, Kody.
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Hey, how's it going?
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It's good to see you.
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[Kody] Hey, good to see you.
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Are you ready for, uh,
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new, uh, variety show
of Sister Wives?
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I don't know about that.
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With all that singing,
and dancing, and a...
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And a little bit of comedy?
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If this turned
into a variety show,
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like what would be
your theme song?
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Um, I can see clearly now
the rain is gone.
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Today, I'm feeling
We Will Rock You by Queen.
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- Ooh.
- [Janelle] Yeah.
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All the Single Ladies.
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Put your hands up.
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Maybe. [laughs]
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- I like that.
- I mean...
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[Sukanya]
Who said you weren't good?
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it's appropriate.
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Losing My Religion.
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Oh.
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That is very telling.
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You know it's not
about religion, right?
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It's about unrequited love.
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- Mmm-hmm.
- Yeah.
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But I like the theme of losing
your religion, you know,
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in a sense that, you know,
you can find faith
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and still lose your religion,
but, you know, you gotta...
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Some people have to hit rock
bottom to find their faith.
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Are you at that place?
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I've hit... I don't think
I've hit rock bottom.
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There's things
I still have, uh,
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you know, like,
emotional control over.
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I'm not as angry
as I was before.
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Um, yeah, a lot changes.
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Divorce messes with you...
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- [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
- ...very much.
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How has everything played out
from the last time I met you?
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Um, I...
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It's been
a sort of an unraveling,
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just something about the...
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struggles in the family
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just made me kind of go...
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is this what
real life is like?
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Is this what
real marriage is like?
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Is this how it is?
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There's, um...
I don't even know how to...
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Um, I've kind of come...
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I've been thinking about this
like all I do.
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You know, when I'm not
working, it's on my mind.
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It's rolling through
and I'm replaying
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and rehashing discussions
and rehashing my life
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and how I started this
family out and everything.
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I mean, this is what
I've gone back on.
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I've gone back
to my past marriage.
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This experience required
that I have more than
one wife.
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And so I come into this.
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I...
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Meri and I get married
and, um,
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and I get married again
to Janelle
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and I get married again
to Christine.
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And I looked back
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and because I was so anxious
to be living the principle
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of plural marriage,
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that I was not vetting
who I was marrying
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to be compatible with me.
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The blame lays on one thing
and one thing only.
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If you're gonna marry
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and you're gonna marry
for eternity,
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you should start out in love.
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I...
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I thought it was acceptable.
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I thought I could make up
the difference.
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I thought everything
in this situation
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with all three wives.
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This isn't about
being like in love.
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This is about growing
a family together.
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We love each other.
We're required.
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The gospel requires us
to love each other.
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But I never really actually,
um, suffered in a...
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in a fit of passion
in this place.
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How do you feel you started
out with Robyn then?
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Was it different?
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- [Kody] Yeah, it was.
- Were you different?
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00:08:41,275 --> 00:08:42,724
[Kody] Well, I fell in love
with Robyn.
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I never fell in love
with anybody else.
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I was just choosing to be
in that covenant
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of love with them.
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Was it just spiritual witness
or were you in love with him
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when you got married to him?
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I was in love
with the idea of him.
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We really did start
to know each other better
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00:09:00,172 --> 00:09:01,413
after we were married.
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I do think I loved him
as much as I could.
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00:09:04,103 --> 00:09:06,793
And we became much more
in love as the years went by,
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00:09:06,793 --> 00:09:07,724
- I think.
- Mmm-hmm.
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00:09:07,724 --> 00:09:09,827
Um, we did get married young
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00:09:09,827 --> 00:09:11,620
and I don't think that
that's necessarily a problem,
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00:09:11,620 --> 00:09:14,000
because I've seen many couples
that navigate that.
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- [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
- But somewhere along the line,
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we failed to navigate that,
I think.
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It's interesting
because Kody had said that,
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00:09:21,275 --> 00:09:24,793
you know, um, that he
fell in love with Robyn
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and had a very deep connection...
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- Mmm-hmm.
- ...one that he, like,
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had never experienced
in his life before.
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00:09:31,172 --> 00:09:32,413
Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm.
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Um, did you ever have that
kind of connection with him?
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00:09:37,275 --> 00:09:41,000
You know, I think as far as my
understanding, yeah, we did.
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00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,103
It was a very
functional marriage.
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But now he's grown and changed
and I've grown and changed.
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And I think maybe
he does have more affinity
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00:09:48,827 --> 00:09:51,103
or more connection with Robyn
and that's okay.
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But I think it's unfair
to judge our early years
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with that same perspective,
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because he was not
the guy back then he is now.
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00:09:58,586 --> 00:10:00,586
But it's kind of like he says
he entered the covenant
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00:10:00,586 --> 00:10:02,000
with you and Christine
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00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,275
in a different manner
than he did with Robyn.
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00:10:05,275 --> 00:10:08,206
I get... I think it's just...
I think it's perspective.
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00:10:08,206 --> 00:10:11,517
I mean, look, I don't think
we had this grand passion
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and maybe Robyn
is his grand passion.
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I don't know.
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Um, but what we had was good.
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I met Robyn and there was
a safety and a vulnerability
252
00:10:22,689 --> 00:10:24,793
that I had never experienced
in my life.
253
00:10:25,689 --> 00:10:30,000
And I met her
and I started weeping for joy
254
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,793
and didn't stop for months.
255
00:10:31,793 --> 00:10:34,689
Because you were
emotionally vulnerable enough
256
00:10:34,689 --> 00:10:36,724
to receive Robyn's love?
257
00:10:36,724 --> 00:10:40,103
No, I don't know if...
We can't qualify it like that.
258
00:10:40,103 --> 00:10:43,793
Let's just say the two of us
had a click,
259
00:10:43,793 --> 00:10:45,896
whereas I was working
for years
260
00:10:45,896 --> 00:10:47,724
with these others
to get that...
261
00:10:47,724 --> 00:10:50,000
To get this place,
never had the click.
262
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,206
Could never go to Janelle
and say,
263
00:10:51,206 --> 00:10:52,931
"Hey, you're not vulnerable
with me,"
264
00:10:52,931 --> 00:10:54,862
because I didn't know.
265
00:10:55,517 --> 00:10:57,689
There's a struggle
in communication.
266
00:10:57,689 --> 00:11:00,689
There's a struggle with
criticism or whatever it is.
267
00:11:00,689 --> 00:11:06,000
There's just this place
and where we're at
268
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,586
with three wives
and me and the kids.
269
00:11:09,586 --> 00:11:12,379
And we're in kind of a...
270
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,482
sort of a constant
little civil war
271
00:11:16,482 --> 00:11:18,379
with where this constant
272
00:11:18,379 --> 00:11:20,172
psychic tension
is always there.
273
00:11:20,172 --> 00:11:21,620
Well, he said
he fell in love with you
274
00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:23,827
because he could
finally be his full self.
275
00:11:23,827 --> 00:11:26,068
He could finally be vulnerable
and love you.
276
00:11:26,068 --> 00:11:27,103
- And that was...
- Yeah.
277
00:11:27,103 --> 00:11:28,689
the connection that he was
really searching for,
278
00:11:28,689 --> 00:11:31,896
that he did not have
with the three other women.
279
00:11:31,896 --> 00:11:33,275
- See, and I didn't know that.
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
280
00:11:33,275 --> 00:11:36,689
I did not know that
until, like, just recently.
281
00:11:36,689 --> 00:11:37,793
[Sukanya] Really?
282
00:11:37,793 --> 00:11:41,172
I did not know that...
[sighs]
283
00:11:41,172 --> 00:11:42,103
and I...
284
00:11:42,103 --> 00:11:43,827
And it still makes me wonder
because I wonder
285
00:11:43,827 --> 00:11:45,793
if it's just
the rewriting of history
286
00:11:45,793 --> 00:11:47,344
because there seems to be
a lot of that.
287
00:11:48,586 --> 00:11:53,000
When your husband is saying
he wept for joy for months
288
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,103
because he had found you...
289
00:11:55,103 --> 00:11:56,896
But I don't think
he was saying that to them.
290
00:11:56,896 --> 00:11:57,827
Is he saying...
291
00:11:57,827 --> 00:11:58,896
- [Sukanya] No.
- Okay.
292
00:11:58,896 --> 00:11:59,931
[Sukanya] But that's just
how he was feeling.
293
00:11:59,931 --> 00:12:01,103
Okay.
294
00:12:01,103 --> 00:12:03,068
So when a person is feeling
that kind of inner joy...
295
00:12:03,068 --> 00:12:04,000
Yeah.
296
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,689
it's kind of hard
just to suppress it
297
00:12:05,689 --> 00:12:07,103
and just be like, okay.
298
00:12:07,103 --> 00:12:08,482
- Um...
- [Robyn] Well, I did my best.
299
00:12:08,482 --> 00:12:10,275
I don't know
what else I'm supposed to...
300
00:12:10,275 --> 00:12:12,689
What else
I was supposed to do,
301
00:12:12,689 --> 00:12:15,586
but I did my best to not
have it be something
302
00:12:15,586 --> 00:12:17,310
that was painful for them.
303
00:12:17,310 --> 00:12:18,310
[Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
304
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:20,379
I constantly was...
305
00:12:20,379 --> 00:12:22,689
suppressing and hiding
my relationship
306
00:12:22,689 --> 00:12:24,896
and any kind of connection
I had with Kody.
307
00:12:24,896 --> 00:12:27,586
You know, you said that you
remember the exact moment
308
00:12:27,586 --> 00:12:29,896
when Kody fell in love
with Robyn.
309
00:12:29,896 --> 00:12:31,379
That was a yucky day.
310
00:12:31,379 --> 00:12:32,586
- So...
- So hard.
311
00:12:32,586 --> 00:12:33,724
...how did that
play out for you
312
00:12:33,724 --> 00:12:34,931
and how did that change
the dynamics
313
00:12:34,931 --> 00:12:37,482
of your relationship
with Kody?
314
00:12:37,482 --> 00:12:39,103
At that point,
Kody and I were already
315
00:12:39,103 --> 00:12:42,310
really, really struggling,
so that didn't help.
316
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:44,379
Um, it broke my heart.
317
00:12:44,379 --> 00:12:46,103
That was one
of my first moments
318
00:12:46,103 --> 00:12:48,172
of heartbreak was that moment.
319
00:12:48,172 --> 00:12:50,000
And I was just sitting
at the edge of my bed
320
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,172
and watching him get ready
to go on a date with her
321
00:12:52,172 --> 00:12:53,586
before they were married.
322
00:12:53,586 --> 00:12:54,586
And I was like...
323
00:12:54,586 --> 00:12:55,896
He's like, I don't know
what's wrong with me.
324
00:12:55,896 --> 00:12:57,172
And I'm like,
I'll like blah, blah, blah.
325
00:12:57,172 --> 00:13:00,482
And I said,
"Oh, you're in love with her."
326
00:13:00,482 --> 00:13:02,000
And he looked at me
and he's like,
327
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:02,931
because I said it out loud,
328
00:13:02,931 --> 00:13:04,310
I'm like,
"You're in love with her."
329
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:05,586
He looked at me and he's like,
330
00:13:05,586 --> 00:13:07,000
"I am. I am in love with her."
331
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,103
And he got really giddy.
332
00:13:08,103 --> 00:13:10,724
And I was like,
"Oh God, it hurt."
333
00:13:10,724 --> 00:13:13,000
- [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
-"It hurt so bad."
334
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,103
It was so bad,
335
00:13:14,103 --> 00:13:15,793
because you realize
at that point
336
00:13:15,793 --> 00:13:18,000
everything now
is going to change.
337
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:18,827
[Sukanya] Coming up.
338
00:13:18,827 --> 00:13:20,793
I've spent two years watching
339
00:13:20,793 --> 00:13:24,379
and seeing Christine
and Janelle talk about me
340
00:13:24,379 --> 00:13:25,689
without me.
341
00:13:25,689 --> 00:13:26,931
[Sukanya] And later.
342
00:13:26,931 --> 00:13:28,206
In that scene,
he's probably getting
343
00:13:28,206 --> 00:13:29,620
a dose of what it's like
to be a sister wife.
344
00:13:29,620 --> 00:13:30,586
Here you go, buddy.
345
00:13:30,586 --> 00:13:34,000
This is what it's been like
for 26 years.
346
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,827
[Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
347
00:13:34,827 --> 00:13:36,068
Take off your blinders
348
00:13:36,068 --> 00:13:38,172
and look and see
what it's like for us.
349
00:13:44,482 --> 00:13:45,310
[producer] Okay.
350
00:13:45,310 --> 00:13:46,310
Everybody settle.
351
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:48,827
I didn't see
the problems, like...
352
00:13:49,482 --> 00:13:50,586
Well, I got optimistic.
353
00:13:50,586 --> 00:13:52,000
I don't think
I saw the problems,
354
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,896
but the problems
were still there.
355
00:13:53,896 --> 00:13:56,275
And, um, when I met Robyn,
356
00:13:56,275 --> 00:14:00,586
it was, you know, like
first time ever being in love.
357
00:14:00,586 --> 00:14:01,655
Hmm.
358
00:14:01,655 --> 00:14:04,103
[Kody] And so that changed
the dynamic, I think.
359
00:14:04,103 --> 00:14:07,206
And that's not
anybody's fault.
360
00:14:07,206 --> 00:14:11,482
Um, it was a call for us
to put more effort
361
00:14:11,482 --> 00:14:14,068
into the other relationships
in my mind.
362
00:14:14,068 --> 00:14:16,068
But that became a grind.
363
00:14:16,068 --> 00:14:21,000
It was constantly, constantly
trying to prove your love
364
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,896
and prove yourself
and, uh, and, uh, um,
365
00:14:24,896 --> 00:14:27,379
like kind of doing
this dance constantly.
366
00:14:27,379 --> 00:14:29,896
And, um,
and some years were good
367
00:14:29,896 --> 00:14:31,862
because the dance
was working really well.
368
00:14:31,862 --> 00:14:32,862
Okay.
369
00:14:32,862 --> 00:14:34,275
And what I'm talking about
370
00:14:34,275 --> 00:14:37,793
is these struggles
in relationship
371
00:14:37,793 --> 00:14:42,586
when we don't have
the basis of passionate love.
372
00:14:42,586 --> 00:14:44,000
Let me ask you a question.
373
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,172
Three of Kody's relationships
have completely deteriorated.
374
00:14:47,172 --> 00:14:48,482
Mmm-hmm.
375
00:14:48,482 --> 00:14:51,068
Subconsciously,
do you think that...
376
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,103
he's getting what he wants
377
00:14:54,103 --> 00:14:55,206
with this relationship
with Robyn,
378
00:14:55,206 --> 00:14:57,689
this incredible
soul connection?
379
00:14:57,689 --> 00:14:59,310
I know that he's happy
with her
380
00:14:59,310 --> 00:15:02,000
and I know that they have
this soul connection.
381
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,310
He speaks of that often.
382
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:08,000
Um, and I'm glad
that he has that with her.
383
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,068
I think everybody
should have that.
384
00:15:10,862 --> 00:15:15,620
Um, I think
it's very unfortunate
385
00:15:15,620 --> 00:15:20,068
that the rest of the family
had to go by the wayside
386
00:15:20,068 --> 00:15:21,689
to get that.
387
00:15:21,689 --> 00:15:25,103
I think that he has
in his life
388
00:15:25,103 --> 00:15:28,344
had the capacity to love
389
00:15:29,275 --> 00:15:34,275
and care
for multiple of us, right?
390
00:15:34,275 --> 00:15:35,689
Like, we've got a big family.
391
00:15:35,689 --> 00:15:38,586
I think he has a capacity
and for whatever reason,
392
00:15:38,586 --> 00:15:39,689
he's not doing it.
393
00:15:39,689 --> 00:15:41,586
I think when he met Robyn,
394
00:15:41,586 --> 00:15:43,068
I was one of the first people
to point out,
395
00:15:43,068 --> 00:15:44,103
"Look, she's your soulmate.
396
00:15:44,103 --> 00:15:45,586
You need to acknowledge
that she's your soulmate."
397
00:15:45,586 --> 00:15:47,793
And let's be honest and say,
"Where do the rest fit in
398
00:15:47,793 --> 00:15:48,965
with your marriage now,
399
00:15:48,965 --> 00:15:50,206
now that you've met
your soulmate?"
400
00:15:50,206 --> 00:15:51,862
And that was like,
"Whoa, what can you say?"
401
00:15:51,862 --> 00:15:53,206
You know, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
402
00:15:53,206 --> 00:15:58,068
Um, so our marriage itself
wasn't great.
403
00:15:58,068 --> 00:15:59,793
If we were just
living monogamy,
404
00:15:59,793 --> 00:16:03,172
we would've maybe stayed,
I don't know.
405
00:16:03,172 --> 00:16:05,379
But our marriage wasn't great.
406
00:16:05,379 --> 00:16:08,000
Outside of Robyn, I agree.
407
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,275
I think him marrying her,
408
00:16:10,275 --> 00:16:13,482
I saw what a real marriage
could be.
409
00:16:13,482 --> 00:16:15,103
I saw him with his soulmate.
410
00:16:15,103 --> 00:16:20,275
I saw, "Oh, I guess he does
have it in him to help out.
411
00:16:20,275 --> 00:16:23,000
I guess he does
have it in him,
just not with me."
412
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,103
I just would've loved
to have had
413
00:16:25,103 --> 00:16:28,896
a guy who would've loved
to have been with me.
414
00:16:28,896 --> 00:16:31,103
Not that I didn't want her
to have it, I didn't.
415
00:16:31,103 --> 00:16:32,586
I thought
it would've been awesome.
416
00:16:32,586 --> 00:16:34,482
But can he give that
to everybody?
417
00:16:34,482 --> 00:16:36,827
I don't think
that's realistic either.
418
00:16:38,689 --> 00:16:41,448
I just think that maybe...
419
00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:44,758
her relationship with Kody
420
00:16:44,758 --> 00:16:46,620
was so very different
from the get-go.
421
00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:49,103
Maybe it was hard
for him to...
422
00:16:49,103 --> 00:16:51,310
I...
'Cause it really felt like he
423
00:16:51,310 --> 00:16:53,793
more and more pulled away
from wanting to be
424
00:16:53,793 --> 00:16:55,275
a plural husband.
425
00:16:55,275 --> 00:16:56,379
Like having...
426
00:16:56,379 --> 00:16:57,620
Shouldering the responsibility
of all the families
427
00:16:57,620 --> 00:17:00,517
unless they conform
to his way of thinking
428
00:17:00,517 --> 00:17:01,206
or his way of being.
429
00:17:01,206 --> 00:17:02,482
- Okay.
- In plural marriage,
430
00:17:02,482 --> 00:17:05,103
you're covenant,
that you're gonna...
431
00:17:05,103 --> 00:17:06,896
you're gonna take care
of each other.
432
00:17:06,896 --> 00:17:09,379
So that is up for him
that he should have,
433
00:17:09,379 --> 00:17:11,103
if he wanted
to really be live...
434
00:17:11,103 --> 00:17:12,482
Walking up
to his responsibilities
435
00:17:12,482 --> 00:17:14,000
that he promised.
436
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,586
He would be working hard
to make sure
437
00:17:15,586 --> 00:17:17,206
everybody's needs were met.
438
00:17:17,206 --> 00:17:20,000
Not just focusing on the one
that he adored more
439
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,000
or had a more affinity for.
440
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,172
All right. Let's move forward
441
00:17:23,172 --> 00:17:25,793
because there's a lot more
to unpack, especially,
442
00:17:25,793 --> 00:17:27,896
um, with Janelle.
443
00:17:27,896 --> 00:17:29,275
Where are you right now?
444
00:17:30,379 --> 00:17:31,586
Where does
the relationship stand?
445
00:17:31,586 --> 00:17:33,172
Um...
446
00:17:34,482 --> 00:17:35,517
I don't know.
447
00:17:35,517 --> 00:17:37,000
It... It's like,
"Hey, you know,
448
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,517
why don't we work
on reconciliation?"
449
00:17:39,517 --> 00:17:42,793
And we...
I mean, but it's just...
450
00:17:42,793 --> 00:17:44,517
She says, "I am not really
that interested."
451
00:17:44,517 --> 00:17:47,482
And I say that I'm interested,
but I don't do anything.
452
00:17:47,482 --> 00:17:49,896
You know,
I don't like triangulating
453
00:17:49,896 --> 00:17:51,482
because what has happened
in our family
454
00:17:51,482 --> 00:17:54,862
since this whole
breakup is, um,
455
00:17:56,068 --> 00:17:57,206
people are coming to me
456
00:17:57,206 --> 00:17:58,689
with somebody else's
grievance.
457
00:17:58,689 --> 00:18:01,896
So, my point is, is when
I sit down with Janelle,
458
00:18:01,896 --> 00:18:03,482
I don't wanna ask
about all the kids.
459
00:18:03,482 --> 00:18:04,482
[Sukanya] Right.
460
00:18:04,482 --> 00:18:06,586
Because I don't wanna be
gossiping, so to speak.
461
00:18:06,586 --> 00:18:10,000
And the nature of our family,
uh, ten years ago
462
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,517
was me running
from each house.
463
00:18:11,517 --> 00:18:13,103
I... You know, okay,
this is what's going on.
464
00:18:13,103 --> 00:18:14,379
This is what's going on
with family.
465
00:18:14,379 --> 00:18:16,310
This... You know,
it was almost like I...
466
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:17,103
It was a family.
467
00:18:17,103 --> 00:18:17,965
So it wasn't gossip.
468
00:18:17,965 --> 00:18:19,103
Right.
469
00:18:19,103 --> 00:18:20,103
- Here's what's happened.
- Go ahead.
470
00:18:20,103 --> 00:18:23,862
Is I've spent two years
watching and seeing
471
00:18:23,862 --> 00:18:27,172
Christine and Janelle
talk about me without me.
472
00:18:28,275 --> 00:18:29,482
And they're just
trash talking me.
473
00:18:29,482 --> 00:18:30,793
- [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
- So I'm like going,
474
00:18:30,793 --> 00:18:32,172
"I don't wanna ask
about anybody else
475
00:18:32,172 --> 00:18:34,000
'cause I don't want
anybody talking about me."
476
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:34,965
[Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
477
00:18:34,965 --> 00:18:36,413
And what are they
trash talking me about?
478
00:18:36,413 --> 00:18:39,206
They're trash talking me
because I'm guilty.
479
00:18:39,206 --> 00:18:43,068
Actually, yes, I am,
of not loving them.
480
00:18:45,586 --> 00:18:47,172
Whoa. Let's go back to that.
481
00:18:47,172 --> 00:18:51,689
That's the guilty part of it
is it's where I--
482
00:18:51,689 --> 00:18:53,172
You're admitting?
483
00:18:53,172 --> 00:18:54,793
Oh, no, I got angry.
484
00:18:54,793 --> 00:18:56,862
And so I'm like,
"Well, I'm... I...
485
00:18:56,862 --> 00:18:58,379
And if we don't
wanna work on this,
486
00:18:58,379 --> 00:19:01,586
if we can't work this out,
then I'm withdrawing this."
487
00:19:01,586 --> 00:19:03,896
But are you admitting
that you were guilty
488
00:19:03,896 --> 00:19:08,896
of not loving them enough
to help the relationship?
489
00:19:08,896 --> 00:19:09,793
No, no, no. I was--
490
00:19:09,793 --> 00:19:10,793
Were you withdrawing
their love?
491
00:19:10,793 --> 00:19:11,758
Oh, no, no. No, no.
492
00:19:11,758 --> 00:19:15,896
I was guilty of not
being in love with them.
493
00:19:15,896 --> 00:19:18,172
It's... It was the guilt
from the beginning.
494
00:19:18,172 --> 00:19:19,793
It was a guilt
from the beginning.
495
00:19:19,793 --> 00:19:21,034
It's like,
496
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,758
I married and I didn't know.
497
00:19:24,758 --> 00:19:26,896
I married on a promise
that was very different
498
00:19:26,896 --> 00:19:28,000
than romantic love...
499
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,206
- [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
- ...if that's completely.
500
00:19:30,206 --> 00:19:31,344
So...
501
00:19:32,896 --> 00:19:34,793
I'm in a place now
where I would like
502
00:19:34,793 --> 00:19:36,620
romantic love with Janelle.
503
00:19:36,620 --> 00:19:38,310
We've got stuff to work out.
504
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:39,620
Christine was always
in a place
505
00:19:39,620 --> 00:19:41,689
where she wanted
romantic love with me.
506
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,586
Let's get back to Janelle because...
507
00:19:44,586 --> 00:19:45,758
- Yeah.
- ...there's a point last year
508
00:19:45,758 --> 00:19:47,275
where it felt like things
really came to a head. Like...
509
00:19:47,275 --> 00:19:48,379
Yeah.
510
00:19:48,379 --> 00:19:49,896
I... I've never
seen it before.
511
00:19:49,896 --> 00:19:52,275
Things got so uncomfortable
between the two of you.
512
00:19:52,275 --> 00:19:53,758
Yeah.
513
00:19:53,758 --> 00:19:57,586
Um, that this clip is going
to be uncomfortable to watch,
514
00:19:57,586 --> 00:19:59,379
but we have to,
and then after that,
515
00:19:59,379 --> 00:20:00,793
I wanna hear your thoughts.
516
00:20:00,793 --> 00:20:01,793
Mmm-hmm. Okay.
517
00:20:01,793 --> 00:20:02,793
[Sukanya] Let's take a look.
518
00:20:02,793 --> 00:20:04,586
So listen,
you really need to stop
519
00:20:04,586 --> 00:20:06,586
throwing me
under the bus, okay?
520
00:20:06,586 --> 00:20:08,103
Okay, you know what?
Then you stop throwing me.
521
00:20:08,103 --> 00:20:09,896
You act like this is my fault.
522
00:20:09,896 --> 00:20:11,620
This is all I need.
523
00:20:11,620 --> 00:20:13,310
Is to not sit here and pretend
524
00:20:13,310 --> 00:20:15,000
that at Christmas time,
nothing's wrong.
525
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,275
You act like
this is not your fault.
526
00:20:16,275 --> 00:20:17,689
[Kody] Do you want
this relationship
527
00:20:17,689 --> 00:20:19,000
- between you and I to work?
- I don't know, do you,
528
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,965
because when you say
choose your loyalties?
529
00:20:21,965 --> 00:20:26,103
They chose to have
their social lives.
530
00:20:26,103 --> 00:20:27,275
But this whole
you need to apologize...
531
00:20:27,275 --> 00:20:28,793
[Kody] They were lying.
532
00:20:28,793 --> 00:20:29,965
You need to apologize
to Robyn.
533
00:20:29,965 --> 00:20:32,689
Janelle, I corrected that
pretty strongly.
534
00:20:32,689 --> 00:20:35,586
Do you understand
that you lie?
535
00:20:35,586 --> 00:20:37,103
That's the reason I call you
The Teflon Queen.
536
00:20:37,103 --> 00:20:38,103
I did not lie.
537
00:20:38,103 --> 00:20:39,275
'Cause you're lying
about what has happened...
538
00:20:39,275 --> 00:20:40,172
- It's wild...
- and what's been going on.
539
00:20:40,172 --> 00:20:42,000
it's wild to me
that you think I lied
540
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,965
because I think
you're manipulating.
541
00:20:43,965 --> 00:20:45,172
I think you decided
you wanna...
542
00:20:45,172 --> 00:20:46,586
didn't wanna be
a plural husband anymore.
543
00:20:46,586 --> 00:20:47,862
- Kody, I think...
- Oh.
544
00:20:47,862 --> 00:20:50,275
...you're trying to do this
all to justify you're--
545
00:20:50,275 --> 00:20:51,586
- Christina's gone.
- [Kody] What am I justifying?
546
00:20:51,586 --> 00:20:52,586
You're pushing me
out the door.
547
00:20:52,586 --> 00:20:53,793
What am I justifying?
548
00:20:53,793 --> 00:20:55,172
You are now pushing me
out the door.
549
00:20:55,172 --> 00:20:57,482
You really do want
a relationship with me?
550
00:20:57,482 --> 00:21:00,000
I need you to stop blaming me
for everything
551
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,620
and start being culpable
for what you have done.
552
00:21:02,620 --> 00:21:04,689
- That is accountability.
- You made this...
553
00:21:04,689 --> 00:21:07,379
about all these
other problems that we have
554
00:21:07,379 --> 00:21:08,310
that we can't sweep under.
555
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:09,379
- This became issue...
- [Kody] I did not.
556
00:21:09,379 --> 00:21:10,379
- Yes, you did.
- I did not.
557
00:21:10,379 --> 00:21:12,206
- I did not. I did not.
- You said you're an...
558
00:21:12,206 --> 00:21:13,103
Wow.
559
00:21:13,103 --> 00:21:15,172
Stop talking
like I'm just an idiot here.
560
00:21:15,172 --> 00:21:16,620
Well then stop
talking to me like I am.
561
00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:19,896
Janelle, I've seen what
you've done this entire time.
562
00:21:19,896 --> 00:21:23,206
Number one, you undermined
the basic rules I had.
563
00:21:23,206 --> 00:21:26,379
You made fun of me
to the boys.
564
00:21:26,379 --> 00:21:28,827
See, have you ever
had my back?
565
00:21:30,379 --> 00:21:32,758
Have you ever been
a team with me?
566
00:21:32,758 --> 00:21:35,000
Have we ever co-parented?
567
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,000
You co-parent with Christine.
568
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,172
Why?
569
00:21:38,172 --> 00:21:39,758
Because Kody,
you were never available.
570
00:21:39,758 --> 00:21:41,620
- You've never been available.
- [Kody] That is such a lie.
571
00:21:41,620 --> 00:21:43,758
All I needed was a...
Your back.
572
00:21:43,758 --> 00:21:45,000
- You are the one...
- You backing me up.
573
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,586
...who said
the boys cannot come...
574
00:21:47,586 --> 00:21:49,275
- Janelle--
- ...until they apologized.
575
00:21:49,275 --> 00:21:50,793
And I corrected that
and you're not listening--
576
00:21:50,793 --> 00:21:52,379
[Janelle] And then
you said to me--
577
00:21:52,379 --> 00:21:53,586
- Stop. Stop that.
- No, you listen to me.
578
00:21:53,586 --> 00:21:54,793
- I corrected that.
- You listen to me.
579
00:21:54,793 --> 00:21:56,620
I even apologized for that.
580
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:58,103
No, you did not.
581
00:21:58,103 --> 00:22:00,275
- Yes, I did.
- No, you did not.
582
00:22:00,275 --> 00:22:01,482
I feel like...
583
00:22:01,482 --> 00:22:03,000
I feel like I'm being gaslit.
584
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,206
You have cheated me out
of my contact with my family
585
00:22:07,206 --> 00:22:08,862
- because--
- [Janelle] It is not my fault.
586
00:22:08,862 --> 00:22:10,379
You ask them.
587
00:22:10,379 --> 00:22:11,896
You ask them who they blame.
588
00:22:11,896 --> 00:22:13,793
Well, they blame me
because you do.
589
00:22:13,793 --> 00:22:15,275
[Janelle] I do not.
590
00:22:15,275 --> 00:22:16,413
[scoffs]
591
00:22:16,413 --> 00:22:17,896
Kody, in the very beginning,
592
00:22:17,896 --> 00:22:18,793
- I kept--
- [Kody] Oh, no, no.
593
00:22:18,793 --> 00:22:19,689
No, you make this
excuse forever.
594
00:22:19,689 --> 00:22:20,482
Listen to me.
595
00:22:20,482 --> 00:22:21,482
[Kody] But I've--
596
00:22:21,482 --> 00:22:22,758
Shut your [bleep] mouth
and let me talk to you
597
00:22:22,758 --> 00:22:24,862
- for a minute.
- No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
598
00:22:24,862 --> 00:22:25,965
- no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- You won't--
599
00:22:25,965 --> 00:22:26,862
- No, no, no.
- You keep cutting me off.
600
00:22:26,862 --> 00:22:29,172
- No, no, no. No.
- You keep cutting me off.
601
00:22:29,172 --> 00:22:31,965
[Kody] There is no interest in
understanding each other here.
602
00:22:31,965 --> 00:22:33,413
So what partnership
do we have?
603
00:22:33,413 --> 00:22:35,689
This is not only me, Kody.
604
00:22:35,689 --> 00:22:38,310
Don't you dare point
your finger at me.
605
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:39,517
You know what?
Let me tell you what.
606
00:22:39,517 --> 00:22:40,586
- No.
- [Kody] No.
607
00:22:40,586 --> 00:22:42,275
- You stay and talk.
- I'm done listening to you.
608
00:22:42,275 --> 00:22:43,689
[Janelle] You stay and talk.
609
00:22:43,689 --> 00:22:46,000
Ah, no, I'm not going to
610
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,517
because you're not listening.
611
00:22:47,517 --> 00:22:48,758
You're not listening to me.
612
00:22:48,758 --> 00:22:49,689
And I'm not going to.
613
00:22:49,689 --> 00:22:50,413
[Janelle] Okay. So we're done?
614
00:22:50,413 --> 00:22:51,241
Goodbye.
615
00:22:51,517 --> 00:22:52,862
[bleep] you.
616
00:22:56,172 --> 00:22:57,344
Shut it off.
617
00:22:58,896 --> 00:23:01,551
That was really difficult
to watch.
618
00:23:04,862 --> 00:23:07,965
I gotta imagine that
this has gotta be
619
00:23:07,965 --> 00:23:10,000
one of the worst fights
that you've ever had
620
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,241
before with Janelle.
621
00:23:14,379 --> 00:23:15,793
Hmm.
622
00:23:15,793 --> 00:23:17,551
So you fought
like this before?
623
00:23:18,482 --> 00:23:21,862
Uh, in 30 years, yeah,
we've had a couple like that.
624
00:23:21,862 --> 00:23:23,689
Not many.
625
00:23:23,689 --> 00:23:26,482
Were you surprised
at how heated this got?
626
00:23:26,482 --> 00:23:28,517
Um, I triggered really,
really badly.
627
00:23:28,517 --> 00:23:30,172
They... She talked about
the Christmas tree
628
00:23:30,172 --> 00:23:32,068
for this party they were
gonna have as a family
629
00:23:32,068 --> 00:23:33,965
and it triggered me. And--
630
00:23:33,965 --> 00:23:35,551
[Sukanya]
So that's why it escalated?
631
00:23:36,379 --> 00:23:38,103
Oh, I take credit for that.
632
00:23:38,103 --> 00:23:39,206
Yeah, sure.
633
00:23:39,206 --> 00:23:42,586
It escalated because
I've got a lot of, uh...
634
00:23:44,862 --> 00:23:47,758
you know, contempt for...
635
00:23:49,413 --> 00:23:51,275
the way she's treated me.
636
00:23:51,275 --> 00:23:54,172
And I think that...
No, I'm accusing them.
637
00:23:54,172 --> 00:23:56,103
They say, "No, no, no,
we're not doing that."
638
00:23:56,103 --> 00:23:58,482
But I think they're
trash talking me because,
639
00:23:58,482 --> 00:24:00,793
um, it makes...
640
00:24:00,793 --> 00:24:02,517
You know, if I'm small,
641
00:24:02,517 --> 00:24:05,620
it makes them feel okay
for how they treated me.
642
00:24:05,620 --> 00:24:08,103
Listen, I might not
have been in love,
643
00:24:08,103 --> 00:24:09,517
but I was being loving,
644
00:24:09,517 --> 00:24:12,103
and I was trying to love, okay?
645
00:24:12,103 --> 00:24:15,517
Sometimes I would feel
in love, all right?
646
00:24:15,517 --> 00:24:18,482
So I was doing,
I was making all the effort.
647
00:24:19,586 --> 00:24:23,379
That the emotion wasn't
always perfectly there.
648
00:24:26,103 --> 00:24:29,310
I don't think I'm accountable
for that part of it.
649
00:24:29,310 --> 00:24:30,896
[Sukanya] Coming up...
650
00:24:30,896 --> 00:24:32,965
Are you jealous that they're
talking to each other now?
651
00:24:33,689 --> 00:24:35,172
I'm jealous because
652
00:24:35,172 --> 00:24:38,000
they're behaving the way
they should have
653
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,689
for 25 years now.
654
00:24:40,689 --> 00:24:43,172
Does he feel betrayed
because Janelle
is friends with you?
655
00:24:43,172 --> 00:24:44,172
Yes.
656
00:24:44,172 --> 00:24:45,103
For sure.
657
00:24:45,103 --> 00:24:46,275
And I'm like, "Well, buddy,
658
00:24:46,275 --> 00:24:47,310
this is what jealousy
looks like."
659
00:24:47,310 --> 00:24:48,965
[laughs] See?
660
00:24:48,965 --> 00:24:50,172
See? See?
661
00:24:50,172 --> 00:24:52,068
This is what jealousy
looks like.
662
00:24:52,068 --> 00:24:53,241
Here you go.
663
00:25:00,068 --> 00:25:01,689
[Janelle] Don't you dare
point your finger at me.
664
00:25:01,689 --> 00:25:03,000
You know what?
Let me tell you what.
665
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,241
- No.
- [Kody] No.
666
00:25:04,241 --> 00:25:06,000
- [Janelle] You stay and talk.
- I'm done listening to you.
667
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,344
[Janelle] You stay and talk.
668
00:25:07,344 --> 00:25:09,793
Ah, no, I'm not going to
669
00:25:09,793 --> 00:25:11,275
because you're not listening.
670
00:25:11,275 --> 00:25:12,448
You're not listening to me.
671
00:25:12,448 --> 00:25:13,689
And I'm not going to.
672
00:25:13,689 --> 00:25:15,275
- Okay. So we're done?
- [Kody] Goodbye.
673
00:25:15,275 --> 00:25:16,551
[Janelle] [bleep] you.
674
00:25:18,482 --> 00:25:19,965
[exhales]
675
00:25:19,965 --> 00:25:21,103
[chuckles]
676
00:25:21,103 --> 00:25:22,275
[Sukanya]
It's hard to watch, isn't it?
677
00:25:22,275 --> 00:25:23,172
Yeah.
Yeah, it is hard to watch.
678
00:25:23,172 --> 00:25:24,689
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
679
00:25:24,689 --> 00:25:26,758
I can see lots of things
that went wrong.
680
00:25:26,758 --> 00:25:28,379
Have you guys fought
like this before?
681
00:25:28,379 --> 00:25:31,103
No. No. I don't think
we've ever fought like this.
682
00:25:31,103 --> 00:25:33,034
I mean, Kody has had
harsh words with me
683
00:25:33,034 --> 00:25:34,241
and I've had
harsh words with him,
684
00:25:34,241 --> 00:25:36,172
but not to this...
Not to this level.
685
00:25:36,172 --> 00:25:37,689
- [Sukanya] Right.
- For sure.
686
00:25:37,689 --> 00:25:38,965
You mentioned that
you see things
687
00:25:38,965 --> 00:25:42,172
and now, looking at it,
what do you see?
688
00:25:42,172 --> 00:25:44,965
Um, you know, I went in
even with the talking points
689
00:25:44,965 --> 00:25:47,000
because I knew he was gonna
come in really strong
690
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,275
to this argument.
691
00:25:48,275 --> 00:25:49,896
But I just, I shut down,
692
00:25:49,896 --> 00:25:51,448
like I couldn't even
express myself,
693
00:25:51,448 --> 00:25:53,068
and then he just
wouldn't let me.
694
00:25:53,068 --> 00:25:54,689
And I feel like now,
695
00:25:54,689 --> 00:25:56,379
I wish it would've been
a little bit more like,
696
00:25:56,379 --> 00:25:59,103
"Hey, look,
this isn't working anymore."
697
00:25:59,103 --> 00:26:00,448
Um...
698
00:26:01,275 --> 00:26:03,965
yeah, it was just
too emotional.
699
00:26:03,965 --> 00:26:05,275
It was a lot
of finger pointing,
700
00:26:05,275 --> 00:26:06,896
a lot of finger pointing.
701
00:26:06,896 --> 00:26:08,482
And did that start,
like, getting you going?
702
00:26:08,482 --> 00:26:09,586
[laughs] I was like,
703
00:26:09,586 --> 00:26:11,482
"Well, okay, then let's go."
704
00:26:11,482 --> 00:26:12,482
- [Sukanya] Okay.
- You know what I mean?
705
00:26:12,482 --> 00:26:14,448
'Cause like, there was no...
706
00:26:14,448 --> 00:26:16,965
In all of our communication,
it's never been...
707
00:26:16,965 --> 00:26:18,862
It's always been about
something else
708
00:26:18,862 --> 00:26:21,000
somebody else did, you know?
709
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,241
Or that you did.
710
00:26:23,241 --> 00:26:26,551
Or it's never like, "Well,
I could've done this better."
711
00:26:26,551 --> 00:26:28,344
He never self-reflects
and says,
712
00:26:28,344 --> 00:26:30,551
"Hey, I could've...
I could've done this better."
713
00:26:30,551 --> 00:26:35,793
I think he really needs to do
a lot of self-introspection.
714
00:26:35,793 --> 00:26:38,551
And that's really hard to do.
715
00:26:39,482 --> 00:26:40,689
That's really hard to do.
716
00:26:40,689 --> 00:26:42,793
And maybe he has been,
I don't know.
717
00:26:42,793 --> 00:26:44,448
I can't... I can't say,
718
00:26:44,448 --> 00:26:47,379
but it doesn't feel like it
719
00:26:47,379 --> 00:26:49,586
from me being an outsider.
720
00:26:49,586 --> 00:26:50,896
It doesn't feel like it
721
00:26:50,896 --> 00:26:53,172
because there's still a lot
of blame going on.
722
00:26:53,172 --> 00:26:54,689
[Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
723
00:26:54,689 --> 00:26:56,379
What did he tell you
about the fight?
724
00:26:56,379 --> 00:27:00,965
He told me that, um,
when he saw the Christmas tree
725
00:27:00,965 --> 00:27:02,965
and he realized,
and she sat there
726
00:27:02,965 --> 00:27:04,103
and said she was take...
727
00:27:04,103 --> 00:27:08,655
Taking it over
to the, um, the rental
728
00:27:08,655 --> 00:27:11,758
to spend that time
with Christine with the tree,
729
00:27:11,758 --> 00:27:14,068
it really upset him.
730
00:27:14,068 --> 00:27:18,896
And, um, I know that that was
one of the triggers,
731
00:27:18,896 --> 00:27:20,344
I guess you'd say for him.
732
00:27:20,344 --> 00:27:22,310
[Sukanya] Why do you think
that upset him so much?
733
00:27:23,068 --> 00:27:25,896
Because Christine left him.
734
00:27:25,896 --> 00:27:29,275
And so, Janelle
is still his wife.
735
00:27:29,275 --> 00:27:34,137
And so, what he was expecting
from her was support.
736
00:27:34,137 --> 00:27:38,068
And what he thought,
what he saw happening,
737
00:27:38,068 --> 00:27:40,379
and what he felt like
was happening
738
00:27:40,379 --> 00:27:43,862
was that she was giving
more support
739
00:27:43,862 --> 00:27:45,862
and more understanding
740
00:27:45,862 --> 00:27:48,551
and siding with Christine.
741
00:27:48,551 --> 00:27:50,758
So he feels like
she picks sides?
742
00:27:50,758 --> 00:27:52,275
Yeah.
743
00:27:52,275 --> 00:27:55,793
She never once expressed
any empathy to me.
744
00:27:55,793 --> 00:27:58,379
During the breakup
with Christine?
745
00:27:58,379 --> 00:28:00,724
Never.
746
00:28:01,379 --> 00:28:02,896
She sided with Christine,
747
00:28:02,896 --> 00:28:05,586
and then with that, just...
748
00:28:05,586 --> 00:28:09,965
Her and I just gradually just
slowly unwound to this point.
749
00:28:09,965 --> 00:28:10,965
[Sukanya] Okay.
750
00:28:11,862 --> 00:28:14,103
So you think that
she sided with Christine,
751
00:28:14,103 --> 00:28:16,551
she never showed you
any empathy,
752
00:28:16,551 --> 00:28:17,586
any love, any like,
"I'm really...
753
00:28:17,586 --> 00:28:19,103
I don't think
she's capable of it.
754
00:28:19,103 --> 00:28:21,896
I don't think she...
I don't...
755
00:28:21,896 --> 00:28:23,689
It's weird to me
that she wouldn't just go,
756
00:28:23,689 --> 00:28:27,344
"God, that's just so sad.
That's hard." Or whatever.
757
00:28:27,344 --> 00:28:30,137
Are you jealous that they're
talking to each other now?
758
00:28:30,137 --> 00:28:32,655
I am jealous
because they're behaving
759
00:28:32,655 --> 00:28:36,931
the way they should have
for 25 years, now.
760
00:28:37,793 --> 00:28:43,068
Yeah. It's like I see it
as a big FU to Kody.
761
00:28:43,068 --> 00:28:44,655
It's like,
we're gonna get along now
762
00:28:44,655 --> 00:28:46,689
because this will
really piss Kody off.
763
00:28:46,689 --> 00:28:49,172
Does he feel betrayed
because Janelle
is friends with you?
764
00:28:49,172 --> 00:28:51,034
Yes. For sure.
765
00:28:51,034 --> 00:28:52,172
And I'm like, "Well, buddy,
766
00:28:52,172 --> 00:28:53,275
this is what jealousy
looks like."
767
00:28:53,275 --> 00:28:55,103
[laughs] See?
768
00:28:55,103 --> 00:28:56,275
See? See?
769
00:28:56,275 --> 00:28:58,344
This is what jealousy
looks like.
770
00:28:58,344 --> 00:28:59,482
Here you go.
771
00:28:59,482 --> 00:29:01,275
Here...
Now you see how hard it is
772
00:29:01,275 --> 00:29:03,103
when two people have a bond.
773
00:29:03,103 --> 00:29:05,000
Janelle and I
have an awesome bond.
774
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,689
And maybe he's jealous
about that bond.
775
00:29:06,689 --> 00:29:08,758
Maybe he's jealous
that we co-parented.
776
00:29:08,758 --> 00:29:11,448
Now you see what it's like,
buddy, and it sucks.
777
00:29:11,448 --> 00:29:14,241
It sucks that sometimes
she picked me over you
778
00:29:14,241 --> 00:29:15,793
because she can talk to me
779
00:29:15,793 --> 00:29:17,482
and I will work things out
with her.
780
00:29:17,482 --> 00:29:19,103
And because we've had
our fights
781
00:29:19,103 --> 00:29:20,551
and we've had
our disagreements,
782
00:29:20,551 --> 00:29:21,896
but we work them out.
783
00:29:21,896 --> 00:29:24,275
So, in that scene,
he's probably getting a dose
784
00:29:24,275 --> 00:29:25,379
of what it's like
to be a sister wife.
785
00:29:25,379 --> 00:29:26,586
Here you go, buddy.
786
00:29:26,586 --> 00:29:29,896
This is what's been like
for 26 years.
787
00:29:29,896 --> 00:29:32,000
- [Sukanya] Mmm-hmm.
- Take off your blinders
788
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,241
and look and see
what it's like for us.
789
00:29:34,241 --> 00:29:35,965
Christine has said,
790
00:29:35,965 --> 00:29:38,793
well, they're getting along
and they chose each other.
791
00:29:38,793 --> 00:29:41,103
And now, Kody understands
how it feels like
792
00:29:41,103 --> 00:29:42,379
to be a sister wife.
793
00:29:42,379 --> 00:29:44,655
I mean, sure.
Reverse the tables.
794
00:29:44,655 --> 00:29:48,379
If you look at it from
a perspective of one-on-one,
795
00:29:48,379 --> 00:29:50,655
institutionally,
it's an unfair lifestyle.
796
00:29:50,655 --> 00:29:52,655
I never said it wasn't.
797
00:29:53,689 --> 00:29:57,241
They gotta choose
their husband and they chose.
798
00:29:57,241 --> 00:30:00,586
There's other things
that happened during that time
799
00:30:00,586 --> 00:30:02,275
and I can't tell you
what they were,
800
00:30:02,275 --> 00:30:05,068
but Janelle and I
were not getting closer.
801
00:30:05,068 --> 00:30:06,379
We're getting farther apart.
802
00:30:06,379 --> 00:30:09,275
But is it
because in your mind,
803
00:30:09,275 --> 00:30:11,965
you thought that she chose
sides with Christine
804
00:30:11,965 --> 00:30:15,620
and that... Maybe you wrote
her off as a result of that?
805
00:30:16,379 --> 00:30:18,241
- Did--
- No, I never wrote her off.
806
00:30:18,241 --> 00:30:20,482
I just didn't feel
the same kind of devotions
807
00:30:20,482 --> 00:30:21,620
to the relationship.
808
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,551
You know,
just before Christmas,
809
00:30:25,551 --> 00:30:27,241
we talked about
Thanksgiving stuff
810
00:30:27,241 --> 00:30:29,482
and I had just had Covid.
811
00:30:29,482 --> 00:30:32,965
And Janelle was gone on
vacation with Christine
812
00:30:32,965 --> 00:30:34,482
when I got Covid.
813
00:30:34,482 --> 00:30:38,793
And it was pretty dark.
814
00:30:38,793 --> 00:30:41,758
It was pretty dark.
It felt like such a betrayal.
815
00:30:42,689 --> 00:30:44,172
That the two of them
were together?
816
00:30:44,172 --> 00:30:45,793
Well, yeah, when I was sick.
817
00:30:45,793 --> 00:30:47,482
So I was on vacation.
818
00:30:47,482 --> 00:30:50,655
Kody called me at the hotel
and he's like I'm really sick.
819
00:30:50,655 --> 00:30:51,689
And I'm like okay.
820
00:30:51,689 --> 00:30:53,275
And I was getting ready
to call Christine
821
00:30:53,275 --> 00:30:54,896
and say we gotta go home.
822
00:30:54,896 --> 00:30:57,758
Um, so I called the doctor
823
00:30:57,758 --> 00:30:59,241
because he was
freaking me out.
824
00:30:59,241 --> 00:31:00,689
He was really scaring me.
825
00:31:00,689 --> 00:31:03,586
So I'm like okay,
should I call for oxygen?
826
00:31:03,586 --> 00:31:05,551
Should I call for, like...
I don't know.
827
00:31:05,551 --> 00:31:07,068
Like, I didn't know
what to do.
828
00:31:07,068 --> 00:31:08,689
And I did consider
coming home,
829
00:31:08,689 --> 00:31:09,965
but he's like no,
don't come home.
830
00:31:09,965 --> 00:31:11,103
You can't come over
to the house anyway.
831
00:31:11,103 --> 00:31:12,655
There's nothing you can do.
832
00:31:12,655 --> 00:31:15,172
So that's why you don't get
why Kody is making a big deal
833
00:31:15,172 --> 00:31:17,172
about you not having
compassion for him
834
00:31:17,172 --> 00:31:18,379
when he had Covid?
835
00:31:18,379 --> 00:31:21,000
So compassion for him is...
836
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,034
that for the months afterwards
837
00:31:24,034 --> 00:31:25,344
that he's like I almost died,
838
00:31:25,344 --> 00:31:26,965
I'm like, I get it, I get it.
839
00:31:26,965 --> 00:31:28,379
But you know what,
840
00:31:28,379 --> 00:31:30,655
this conversation is not about
that you almost died.
841
00:31:30,655 --> 00:31:32,965
This conversation is
about something else.
842
00:31:32,965 --> 00:31:36,551
And I'm sorry,
you can't use it as an excuse,
843
00:31:36,551 --> 00:31:38,896
just like I think
he uses this anger
844
00:31:38,896 --> 00:31:41,793
or this betrayal with
Christine as an excuse.
845
00:31:41,793 --> 00:31:44,034
He called
when we were on our trip
846
00:31:44,034 --> 00:31:46,689
and there we are
having a lovely time together
847
00:31:46,689 --> 00:31:49,241
and he goes,
"I need you to come home
848
00:31:49,241 --> 00:31:51,344
so you can get some stuff
for me."
849
00:31:51,344 --> 00:31:53,689
And she's like, "Okay."
850
00:31:53,689 --> 00:31:57,000
I'm like, no, no.
What are you gonna do?
851
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,586
I'm like,
all you're going to do
852
00:31:59,586 --> 00:32:02,137
is go to the store
and buy it for him
853
00:32:02,137 --> 00:32:03,689
and then take it to his house
854
00:32:03,689 --> 00:32:05,379
and leave it on the doorstep.
855
00:32:05,379 --> 00:32:06,793
You will never see him.
856
00:32:06,793 --> 00:32:08,379
You can't take care of him.
857
00:32:08,379 --> 00:32:10,551
And straight up,
when you had Covid,
858
00:32:10,551 --> 00:32:12,000
did he go take care of you?
859
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,137
No. We're not leaving.
860
00:32:14,137 --> 00:32:16,689
You are staying here
on this vacation with me.
861
00:32:16,689 --> 00:32:18,000
[Sukanya] Coming up...
862
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,310
There's a lot of bullying
in the family.
863
00:32:21,034 --> 00:32:23,275
And I'm just not willing
to sit here
864
00:32:23,275 --> 00:32:24,482
and put up with it anymore.
865
00:32:24,482 --> 00:32:25,896
[Sukanya] And later...
866
00:32:25,896 --> 00:32:27,000
After this fight,
867
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,586
I felt like this huge burden
had been lifted from me.
868
00:32:29,586 --> 00:32:30,965
What was the burden?
869
00:32:32,275 --> 00:32:34,068
I didn't have to keep
putting effort
870
00:32:34,068 --> 00:32:36,551
into this relationship anymore
with Kody.
871
00:32:36,551 --> 00:32:38,758
I... That moment,
I was thinking to myself,
872
00:32:38,758 --> 00:32:40,655
I don't ever wanna talk
to Janelle again.
873
00:32:49,103 --> 00:32:51,551
[producer] Eleven.
And marker please.
874
00:32:52,275 --> 00:32:54,137
So you couldn't get over
the betrayal
875
00:32:54,137 --> 00:32:55,586
of her picking sides
with Christine?
876
00:32:55,586 --> 00:32:57,034
Oh, at that moment, I can...
I can get over with it.
877
00:32:57,034 --> 00:32:58,172
- We can figure it out.
- Right, at that moment.
878
00:32:58,172 --> 00:32:59,241
We're talking about
at that moment.
879
00:32:59,241 --> 00:33:00,793
That was the trigger
was the...
880
00:33:00,793 --> 00:33:04,068
And the betrayal of not
backing me up with the kids.
881
00:33:04,068 --> 00:33:05,275
But if you saw that...
882
00:33:05,275 --> 00:33:07,137
if you saw that trigger happening,
883
00:33:07,137 --> 00:33:09,000
how easy wouldn't it have been
for you to be like,
884
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,965
"All right,
I'd want to show up.
885
00:33:10,965 --> 00:33:13,000
I wanna see the kids
during the holidays.
886
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,137
Can I show up?"
887
00:33:14,137 --> 00:33:15,793
Why couldn't you ask
that question?
888
00:33:15,793 --> 00:33:18,965
I feel like... Okay.
So, let's go to this point.
889
00:33:20,137 --> 00:33:21,448
- Personally...
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
890
00:33:21,448 --> 00:33:23,482
...I feel like
as we have seen,
891
00:33:23,482 --> 00:33:25,448
they're trained to blame Robyn.
892
00:33:27,275 --> 00:33:29,551
Um, the kids are estranged
893
00:33:30,482 --> 00:33:34,000
and Janelle has even
been going,
894
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,482
"Oh, Robyn is this broken dub
895
00:33:36,482 --> 00:33:37,827
that Kody has to protect
896
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,689
from all the [bleep]." Yes.
897
00:33:41,689 --> 00:33:45,103
I feel like they have all been
absolutely [bleep] to her
898
00:33:45,103 --> 00:33:47,448
and what's weird
is they're [bleep] to me
899
00:33:47,448 --> 00:33:49,379
and I just put up with it.
900
00:33:49,379 --> 00:33:51,379
You know, it's just...
For some reasons,
901
00:33:51,379 --> 00:33:53,586
water off a duck's back, but...
902
00:33:53,586 --> 00:33:56,793
I did not want them
separating me and her
903
00:33:56,793 --> 00:33:57,965
from each other.
904
00:33:57,965 --> 00:34:00,275
So, where I go,
she's going to go.
905
00:34:00,275 --> 00:34:03,241
And where she goes
with that part of the family,
906
00:34:03,241 --> 00:34:05,344
she isn't going to
feel welcome.
907
00:34:06,241 --> 00:34:09,068
And her kids
aren't going to want to be
908
00:34:09,068 --> 00:34:11,034
around those other kids.
909
00:34:11,034 --> 00:34:13,241
There's a lot of bullying
in the family.
910
00:34:14,137 --> 00:34:16,275
And I'm just not willing
to sit here
911
00:34:16,275 --> 00:34:18,000
and put up with it anymore.
912
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,862
Were you given an invitation
to go over to Janelle's?
913
00:34:19,862 --> 00:34:21,000
No.
914
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,551
And would you have gone if
you were given an invitation?
915
00:34:22,551 --> 00:34:23,586
Yes. Yes, I would have.
916
00:34:23,586 --> 00:34:24,793
You would've brought
your kids?
917
00:34:24,793 --> 00:34:25,862
- Yes.
- And you would've felt like
918
00:34:25,862 --> 00:34:28,172
that was a safe space
for your kids to be in?
919
00:34:28,172 --> 00:34:30,965
Um, if she would have
invited me
920
00:34:30,965 --> 00:34:33,275
and they said they wanted us,
I would have gone.
921
00:34:33,275 --> 00:34:35,068
I would have been safe, yeah.
922
00:34:35,068 --> 00:34:36,275
Kody had shared with me
923
00:34:36,275 --> 00:34:38,068
that he didn't think
it was a safe space
924
00:34:38,068 --> 00:34:41,068
for you or the kids
to go over to Janelle's.
925
00:34:41,068 --> 00:34:42,965
I think the reason
why he's saying that
926
00:34:42,965 --> 00:34:45,379
is just because of this idea
927
00:34:45,379 --> 00:34:47,551
that the boys are blaming me
for stuff.
928
00:34:47,551 --> 00:34:48,689
Mmm-hmm.
929
00:34:48,689 --> 00:34:50,275
I kept thinking
that they would...
930
00:34:50,275 --> 00:34:52,241
He would work something out
with the boys...
931
00:34:52,241 --> 00:34:54,689
- Or--
- ...so that it can be okay.
932
00:34:54,689 --> 00:34:56,275
Yeah. But it feels like
933
00:34:56,275 --> 00:34:58,448
there's two different
non-negotiables, right?
934
00:34:58,448 --> 00:34:59,758
- For both of them.
- Yeah. Yeah.
935
00:34:59,758 --> 00:35:01,482
[Sukanya] So, for Janelle,
it's the kids.
936
00:35:01,482 --> 00:35:04,275
- Yeah.
- And for him,
937
00:35:04,275 --> 00:35:06,000
a lot of it revolves
around you,
938
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,862
you know, and protecting you.
939
00:35:07,862 --> 00:35:10,344
- Like, get along with you.
- He... No.
940
00:35:10,344 --> 00:35:11,448
And I... And I think--
941
00:35:11,448 --> 00:35:12,482
[Sukanya]
And stop blaming you.
942
00:35:12,482 --> 00:35:15,172
And... Okay. And I understand
that that's...
943
00:35:15,172 --> 00:35:17,965
As a husband,
that's his right,
944
00:35:17,965 --> 00:35:20,896
I guess, to say it,
but I also...
945
00:35:20,896 --> 00:35:23,586
I never wanted an apology.
946
00:35:23,586 --> 00:35:26,137
I didn't ask for one.
947
00:35:26,137 --> 00:35:27,896
I never expected one.
948
00:35:27,896 --> 00:35:30,586
I was not saying this to him.
949
00:35:30,586 --> 00:35:32,379
And I...
And I feel very frustrated
950
00:35:32,379 --> 00:35:34,793
that my name
got brought into this
951
00:35:34,793 --> 00:35:39,482
because this wasn't something
I was interested in.
952
00:35:39,482 --> 00:35:42,034
The whole apology thing was...
He corrected himself.
953
00:35:42,034 --> 00:35:43,689
He doesn't want an apology
from the boys.
954
00:35:43,689 --> 00:35:46,172
But, you know, the mechanics
were still the same.
955
00:35:46,172 --> 00:35:49,275
He kept saying after Robyn's
prompting a little bit,
956
00:35:49,275 --> 00:35:51,034
he came to conversation
957
00:35:51,034 --> 00:35:54,379
of the boys can come
and make peace,
958
00:35:54,379 --> 00:35:56,965
have a conversation,
whatever it was,
959
00:35:56,965 --> 00:35:58,689
basically
make it right with me.
960
00:35:58,689 --> 00:36:01,379
And then, they can come over
for the holidays.
961
00:36:01,379 --> 00:36:03,103
What made you wanna walk out?
962
00:36:03,103 --> 00:36:04,793
I was just done
talking to her.
963
00:36:04,793 --> 00:36:06,896
- You're not listening.
- You're not listening to me.
964
00:36:06,896 --> 00:36:08,137
And I'm not going to.
965
00:36:08,137 --> 00:36:09,344
- Okay. So, we're done?
- Goodbye.
966
00:36:09,344 --> 00:36:11,000
[bleep] you.
967
00:36:12,172 --> 00:36:13,862
I... Literally,
in that moment,
968
00:36:13,862 --> 00:36:16,344
I think what I was thinking
is this is...
969
00:36:16,344 --> 00:36:19,241
This woman has...
There's just no way...
970
00:36:19,241 --> 00:36:22,482
I just... It was like I...
We're done.
971
00:36:22,482 --> 00:36:24,862
I'm so angry,
I can't live like this.
972
00:36:24,862 --> 00:36:28,000
I can't be betrayed like this
and be okay with it.
973
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,482
I can't have, you know, as...
974
00:36:30,482 --> 00:36:32,137
I'm supposed to be the head
of the family
975
00:36:32,137 --> 00:36:34,482
and I've been undermined
completely here.
976
00:36:34,482 --> 00:36:37,758
It's just...
You're in a tough spot
977
00:36:37,758 --> 00:36:40,034
and you're
questioning yourself,
978
00:36:40,034 --> 00:36:42,965
"Do I put more effort
into this or not?"
979
00:36:42,965 --> 00:36:44,793
And I think Janelle and I, both.
980
00:36:44,793 --> 00:36:46,793
This is not an accusation
to Janelle.
981
00:36:46,793 --> 00:36:48,586
Janelle and I both seen
982
00:36:48,586 --> 00:36:50,896
so little value
in the relationship
983
00:36:50,896 --> 00:36:53,344
that we have not made
those steps
984
00:36:53,344 --> 00:36:54,758
to bring it back together.
985
00:36:54,758 --> 00:36:56,241
Janelle sees more value
986
00:36:56,241 --> 00:36:58,000
in the relationship
with Christine
987
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,689
than she does
in the relationship with me.
988
00:36:59,689 --> 00:37:02,103
But in the heat of the moment,
at that moment.
989
00:37:03,137 --> 00:37:04,482
I don't ever... I...
990
00:37:04,482 --> 00:37:05,862
That moment,
I was thinking to myself,
991
00:37:05,862 --> 00:37:08,137
"I don't ever wanna talk
to Janelle again."
992
00:37:08,137 --> 00:37:10,482
I am... I was...
993
00:37:10,482 --> 00:37:12,344
I felt so betrayed.
994
00:37:14,034 --> 00:37:15,965
[Sukanya]
And her reaction to you...
995
00:37:16,758 --> 00:37:18,586
when she said don't walk away?
996
00:37:18,586 --> 00:37:19,482
Yeah.
997
00:37:19,482 --> 00:37:20,275
[Sukanya]
And then, she curses at you?
998
00:37:20,275 --> 00:37:21,241
Yeah.
999
00:37:21,241 --> 00:37:22,862
I just--
1000
00:37:22,862 --> 00:37:24,344
What were you saying
at this point?
1001
00:37:24,344 --> 00:37:26,000
Go work it out with her.
1002
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,965
Go talk to her.
1003
00:37:27,965 --> 00:37:30,172
And it's weird to me
because I kept saying,
1004
00:37:30,172 --> 00:37:32,275
"You guys have
how many years together.
1005
00:37:32,275 --> 00:37:34,448
You have six kids."
1006
00:37:34,448 --> 00:37:36,137
[Sukanya] Yeah, 30 years.
1007
00:37:36,137 --> 00:37:37,586
Yeah.
1008
00:37:37,586 --> 00:37:39,758
That's worth looking at.
1009
00:37:43,034 --> 00:37:46,137
You know, I said that to him
over and over.
1010
00:37:46,137 --> 00:37:47,655
You know, that's...
1011
00:37:48,586 --> 00:37:49,655
Sorry.
1012
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,655
That's worth looking at.
1013
00:37:56,344 --> 00:37:58,689
That's worth fighting for.
1014
00:37:58,689 --> 00:38:00,896
I'm like, "Why can't you just
go talk and see
1015
00:38:00,896 --> 00:38:04,275
if there's something
worth fighting for?
1016
00:38:04,275 --> 00:38:05,965
That's a long time.
1017
00:38:05,965 --> 00:38:07,241
That's a lot of kids."
1018
00:38:08,379 --> 00:38:11,275
And to just, like, you know,
toss it to the side,
1019
00:38:11,275 --> 00:38:13,241
I said, "That's one fight."
1020
00:38:13,241 --> 00:38:14,896
After this fight,
1021
00:38:14,896 --> 00:38:16,344
I...
1022
00:38:16,344 --> 00:38:17,689
I was pretty emotional
for a few minutes
1023
00:38:17,689 --> 00:38:19,000
because the emotional
shock of it.
1024
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,172
I... I've never fought
with Kody like this.
1025
00:38:21,172 --> 00:38:24,586
And then,
I had to run some errands
1026
00:38:24,586 --> 00:38:27,551
and I just remember feeling
very relieved.
1027
00:38:27,551 --> 00:38:29,172
It was this really
strangest thing.
1028
00:38:29,172 --> 00:38:30,379
I remember where I was.
1029
00:38:30,379 --> 00:38:32,793
I was sitting in this flat
parking lot here in Flagstaff.
1030
00:38:32,793 --> 00:38:34,172
And all of a sudden, I'm like,
1031
00:38:34,172 --> 00:38:36,586
I felt like this huge burden
had been lifted from me.
1032
00:38:36,586 --> 00:38:37,793
I felt relieved.
1033
00:38:37,793 --> 00:38:39,172
What was the burden?
1034
00:38:40,482 --> 00:38:42,379
I didn't have
to keep putting effort
1035
00:38:42,379 --> 00:38:44,827
into this relationship anymore
with Kody.
1036
00:38:45,793 --> 00:38:47,068
[Sukanya] Coming up...
1037
00:38:47,068 --> 00:38:49,206
Didn't go really good
last time we talked.
1038
00:38:49,655 --> 00:38:51,344
No.
1039
00:38:51,344 --> 00:38:55,586
I do think that I wanna stay
separated for now.
1040
00:38:55,586 --> 00:38:57,586
You just felt that
you were there to be,
1041
00:38:57,586 --> 00:38:59,793
- what, a physical boy toy?
- Yes.
1042
00:38:59,793 --> 00:39:01,275
Like, some pool boy.
1043
00:39:01,275 --> 00:39:02,379
So, you just felt
like a resource?
1044
00:39:02,379 --> 00:39:03,448
She just felt like
a good-looking--
1045
00:39:03,448 --> 00:39:04,482
I felt like a piece of meat.
1046
00:39:04,482 --> 00:39:06,586
I don't know. Like, he loves
his pecs so much
1047
00:39:06,586 --> 00:39:07,793
that I'm like,
"Hmm, I don't know,
1048
00:39:07,793 --> 00:39:09,241
you love them so much now."
1049
00:39:16,448 --> 00:39:18,482
[producer]
Okay [indistinct] channel.
1050
00:39:18,482 --> 00:39:21,000
So, how much time had passed
between that fight
1051
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,000
and you guys sitting down
and having lunch?
1052
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,172
- It'd been two months.
- [Sukanya] Wow.
1053
00:39:24,172 --> 00:39:25,241
Two months.
1054
00:39:25,241 --> 00:39:26,379
I hadn't talked to him
or seen him in two months.
1055
00:39:26,379 --> 00:39:28,137
So, you guys distanced
yourselves after the fight?
1056
00:39:28,137 --> 00:39:29,896
No texting,
no talking, no anything?
1057
00:39:29,896 --> 00:39:30,793
[Janelle] No.
1058
00:39:30,793 --> 00:39:32,172
I just didn't want to.
1059
00:39:32,172 --> 00:39:33,758
He didn't reach out to me,
I didn't reach out to him.
1060
00:39:33,758 --> 00:39:36,896
Like, there was
radio silence for us.
1061
00:39:36,896 --> 00:39:38,000
Well, let's take
a look because...
1062
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,068
- All right.
- it was...
1063
00:39:39,068 --> 00:39:41,241
There was a lot that was
said between the two of you
1064
00:39:41,241 --> 00:39:43,655
and something that really
kind of shaped
1065
00:39:43,655 --> 00:39:45,655
the future
of your relationship.
1066
00:39:46,448 --> 00:39:47,379
Thank you.
1067
00:39:47,379 --> 00:39:48,379
- Hi.
- Hi.
1068
00:39:48,379 --> 00:39:49,793
- How's it going?
- Good.
1069
00:39:49,793 --> 00:39:51,379
- Long time no see.
- Yeah.
1070
00:39:51,379 --> 00:39:53,655
Are you gonna give me a hug?
1071
00:39:53,655 --> 00:39:55,586
That was a high expectation.
1072
00:39:55,586 --> 00:39:57,068
- How are you?
- Good.
1073
00:39:59,655 --> 00:40:02,103
Didn't go really good
last time we talked.
1074
00:40:02,482 --> 00:40:04,172
No.
1075
00:40:04,172 --> 00:40:08,344
I do think that I wanna stay
separated for now.
1076
00:40:10,586 --> 00:40:12,241
Really?
You wanna stay separated?
1077
00:40:12,241 --> 00:40:13,551
Yeah. I do.
1078
00:40:17,172 --> 00:40:18,482
I'm sort of surprised
1079
00:40:18,482 --> 00:40:20,482
that she doesn't wanna try
and reconcile,
1080
00:40:20,482 --> 00:40:23,379
that she wants
to be separated.
1081
00:40:23,379 --> 00:40:24,793
We've been separated
1082
00:40:24,793 --> 00:40:27,310
probably two or three times
in the past.
1083
00:40:28,379 --> 00:40:31,241
I always felt like
that was because
1084
00:40:31,241 --> 00:40:33,379
she couldn't manage
the relationship
1085
00:40:33,379 --> 00:40:34,482
with her sister wives.
1086
00:40:34,482 --> 00:40:36,896
I never felt like
that was over me,
1087
00:40:36,896 --> 00:40:38,965
but maybe I was wrong.
1088
00:40:38,965 --> 00:40:41,862
I'm not gonna be angry
with you anymore, okay?
1089
00:40:41,862 --> 00:40:44,275
I'm just... So, you know,
1090
00:40:44,275 --> 00:40:47,000
if you wanna do a separation,
I understand.
1091
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,000
But I'm not gonna be angry anymore.
1092
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,793
If I get angry,
I'm gonna leave.
1093
00:40:50,793 --> 00:40:52,448
I'm not gonna be accusatory.
1094
00:40:52,448 --> 00:40:54,965
I realize
that I'm morphing this grief.
1095
00:40:56,103 --> 00:40:58,448
[Janelle] You know,
for the last month or so,
1096
00:40:58,448 --> 00:40:59,689
I've vacillated between
1097
00:40:59,689 --> 00:41:02,586
I never ever
wanna see you again to,
1098
00:41:02,586 --> 00:41:05,689
you know, just,
so I gotta figure it out.
1099
00:41:05,689 --> 00:41:07,172
I do miss Kody.
1100
00:41:07,793 --> 00:41:09,000
We are very best friends.
1101
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,137
We have a lot
of conversations.
1102
00:41:10,137 --> 00:41:12,172
I miss him in my bed.
1103
00:41:12,172 --> 00:41:14,448
I miss him in my house.
I miss him.
1104
00:41:14,448 --> 00:41:15,344
But I'm not being treated
1105
00:41:15,344 --> 00:41:17,137
the way I deserve
to be treated here.
1106
00:41:19,172 --> 00:41:20,896
Well, this lunch went better
than I thought.
1107
00:41:20,896 --> 00:41:21,793
I was sort of--
1108
00:41:21,793 --> 00:41:22,793
What did you think
that was gonna happen?
1109
00:41:22,793 --> 00:41:23,689
[Janelle] I don't know.
1110
00:41:23,689 --> 00:41:24,793
I don't know.
1111
00:41:24,793 --> 00:41:26,137
You didn't think
that I missed you?
1112
00:41:26,137 --> 00:41:28,137
Well, no, 'cause--
1113
00:41:28,137 --> 00:41:29,551
You didn't think
I wanna kiss you on the lips
1114
00:41:29,551 --> 00:41:30,551
and see you again?
1115
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,862
Here's the thing,
you and I can be simple.
1116
00:41:34,862 --> 00:41:36,896
It's everything else...
1117
00:41:36,896 --> 00:41:38,655
that is complicated.
1118
00:41:38,655 --> 00:41:40,862
It's like, yes,
on a basic level,
1119
00:41:40,862 --> 00:41:42,862
we are simple,
if there was nothing going on,
1120
00:41:42,862 --> 00:41:45,793
but he and I, we're on some
sort of desert island.
1121
00:41:45,793 --> 00:41:47,344
We would be great.
1122
00:41:47,344 --> 00:41:49,482
Let me tell you,
we would be great.
1123
00:41:49,482 --> 00:41:50,862
But no.
1124
00:41:50,862 --> 00:41:52,275
Life is not that.
1125
00:41:52,275 --> 00:41:54,482
I do not know
how to reconcile with you
1126
00:41:54,482 --> 00:41:57,275
unless my kids can all be...
Kody, you didn't--
1127
00:41:57,275 --> 00:41:58,689
I'm not...
I'm not making any--
1128
00:41:58,689 --> 00:42:01,482
You haven't even talked
to Savanah in six weeks.
1129
00:42:01,482 --> 00:42:03,896
So, Janelle's not in love
with me.
1130
00:42:03,896 --> 00:42:05,689
I think she thinks I'm hot.
1131
00:42:05,689 --> 00:42:08,551
I got nice pecs
and a great six-pack abs,
1132
00:42:08,551 --> 00:42:10,862
but that's all
she's interested in.
1133
00:42:11,379 --> 00:42:12,586
I'm like, "Whoa, buddy,
1134
00:42:12,586 --> 00:42:14,344
you're way missing
the boat here."
1135
00:42:14,344 --> 00:42:18,034
There's way more to a marriage
than just physical attraction
1136
00:42:18,034 --> 00:42:21,758
and I feel like
we're in big danger here.
1137
00:42:23,482 --> 00:42:26,482
[Sukanya] I just want
to kind of discuss.
1138
00:42:26,482 --> 00:42:28,172
I feel like
there's a real difference
1139
00:42:28,172 --> 00:42:29,862
between him
sitting down with you
1140
00:42:29,862 --> 00:42:31,344
- and having a conversation...
- Yeah.
1141
00:42:31,344 --> 00:42:34,000
- about your separation...
- Yeah.
1142
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,586
than with Christine.
1143
00:42:36,586 --> 00:42:40,482
I do feel like we had
all aspects of a marriage
1144
00:42:40,482 --> 00:42:41,827
and they were healthy.
1145
00:42:42,275 --> 00:42:43,448
Um...
1146
00:42:43,448 --> 00:42:45,000
You like his pecs?
1147
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,379
Could you believe that?
1148
00:42:46,379 --> 00:42:48,827
I was like... [laughs]
1149
00:42:49,379 --> 00:42:50,551
Sorry.
1150
00:42:50,551 --> 00:42:51,689
He didn't know
what he's talking about.
1151
00:42:51,689 --> 00:42:53,137
I mean, it was fine.
I didn't care.
1152
00:42:53,137 --> 00:42:54,758
There's so much more to
a marriage than that, right?
1153
00:42:54,758 --> 00:42:56,275
But it's a good... It helps.
1154
00:42:56,275 --> 00:42:57,034
I don't know.
1155
00:42:57,034 --> 00:42:58,482
Like, he loves his pecs
so much
1156
00:42:58,482 --> 00:42:59,793
that I'm like,
"Hmm, I don't know.
1157
00:42:59,793 --> 00:43:01,000
You love them so much now."
1158
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,551
And, like, they're great
but, like, I'm...
1159
00:43:03,551 --> 00:43:05,896
It's not... It's not
what it's about for me.
1160
00:43:05,896 --> 00:43:08,172
It's not what
it's about for you?
1161
00:43:08,172 --> 00:43:10,000
It's about emotional
connection for me,
1162
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:10,896
you know what I mean,
1163
00:43:10,896 --> 00:43:13,793
and feeling like, um...
1164
00:43:13,793 --> 00:43:16,862
just that you're...
Yeah, that connection.
1165
00:43:17,379 --> 00:43:19,103
Hey, I gotta say something.
1166
00:43:19,103 --> 00:43:20,896
- They missed something there.
- What did they miss?
1167
00:43:20,896 --> 00:43:24,275
The, you know, the great pecs
and the six-pack abs
1168
00:43:24,275 --> 00:43:26,551
is all about the fact that
Janelle has always seen me
1169
00:43:26,551 --> 00:43:29,448
as a physical specimen
and as a resource
1170
00:43:29,448 --> 00:43:32,689
and not ever really
dove into my humanity.
1171
00:43:32,689 --> 00:43:35,896
When you say your humanity,
you mean your vulnerability?
1172
00:43:35,896 --> 00:43:37,275
- Right, right--
- That you just felt
1173
00:43:37,275 --> 00:43:39,689
that you were there to be,
what, a physical boy toy?
1174
00:43:39,689 --> 00:43:40,793
[Kody] Yes.
1175
00:43:40,793 --> 00:43:42,448
I... Like, some pool boy.
1176
00:43:42,448 --> 00:43:43,689
So, you just felt like
a resource?
1177
00:43:43,689 --> 00:43:45,655
I felt like a piece of meat.
1178
00:43:45,655 --> 00:43:48,103
[Sukanya] Like, in what way?
1179
00:43:48,103 --> 00:43:50,379
Like... I... You have
to explain what that means
1180
00:43:50,379 --> 00:43:52,379
because I don't know much
1181
00:43:52,379 --> 00:43:54,137
about your relationship
with Janelle.
1182
00:43:54,137 --> 00:43:55,000
Yeah.
1183
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,034
- Did you just have a--
- [Kody] No, no.
1184
00:43:56,034 --> 00:43:57,448
Did you guys just
have great sex?
1185
00:43:57,448 --> 00:43:59,000
Hmm.
1186
00:44:00,482 --> 00:44:03,482
[Sukanya] Next time on
Sister Wives: One On One.
1187
00:44:03,482 --> 00:44:04,689
She was attracted to me.
1188
00:44:04,689 --> 00:44:06,172
I know she wasn't
in love with me.
1189
00:44:06,172 --> 00:44:07,793
There was definitely
physical compatibility.
1190
00:44:07,793 --> 00:44:08,862
- [Sukanya] Yeah.
- Yeah.
1191
00:44:08,862 --> 00:44:11,137
Were you in love with Meri
when you married her?
1192
00:44:11,137 --> 00:44:12,344
I told her I loved her
1193
00:44:12,344 --> 00:44:15,000
and she thinks we're mad
about each other
1194
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,103
and we played that out.
1195
00:44:17,103 --> 00:44:19,137
But isn't it not about him
hearing you?
1196
00:44:19,137 --> 00:44:21,206
Isn't it about you
being heard?
1197
00:44:22,172 --> 00:44:24,172
Oh, my voice will be heard.
1198
00:44:24,172 --> 00:44:25,793
I will no longer be silent.
1199
00:44:25,793 --> 00:44:28,655
I don't know why Meri
hasn't left before now.
1200
00:44:28,655 --> 00:44:29,758
I would have.
1201
00:44:29,758 --> 00:44:31,896
How has he sabotaged
your relationship?
1202
00:44:31,896 --> 00:44:33,068
Um...
1203
00:44:33,965 --> 00:44:35,482
he picks fights with me.
1204
00:44:35,482 --> 00:44:36,758
Why?
1205
00:44:37,482 --> 00:44:39,379
I wanted to punish myself.
1206
00:44:39,379 --> 00:44:42,137
Go be happy with each other
for goodness sakes.
1207
00:44:42,137 --> 00:44:44,034
Let the rest of us go.
1208
00:44:44,034 --> 00:44:45,448
Speaking of Christine.
1209
00:44:45,448 --> 00:44:46,689
- Yeah.
- Have you met David?
1210
00:44:46,689 --> 00:44:48,241
Yes. I think he's great.
1211
00:44:48,241 --> 00:44:49,172
Hey, David, come on out.
1212
00:44:49,172 --> 00:44:50,344
You're gonna meet
the love of my life.
1213
00:44:50,344 --> 00:44:51,379
He's amazing.
1214
00:44:51,379 --> 00:44:52,482
Hi, David.