[narrator] Previously onSister Wives.
-[chuckles] Hi. How's it going, sweetheart? -[Savanah] Good.
[Janelle] Kody wants to come over and see the new apartment
that I've moved into.
I mean, we could build a house if you wanted.
I don't understand this "we" thing.
[Kody] I'm looking at this apartment and I'm like,
it's really obvious to me I'm never gonna live in it.
I'm not even welcome here, I don't think.
Let's see if you can blow it out.
-Oh! -[woman 1] Wow!
[Kody] My goal from the beginning was
that my family would be under one roof.
I think every kid needs a dad.
Before we have cake, should we do presents,
-and then have cake? -Good.
[Robyn] It's very, very painful.
It does not make sense to us, 'cause we're like,
"We're a family, what the heck?"
I called him, I'm like, "Hey." And he's like, "Hey."
And I said, "Happy anniversary."
And he's like, "But we're not married..."
And he paused, and then he goes,
"But we're not living as a married couple."
We really haven't had
any sort of marriage for, like, eight years.
Screw him. He's not worth it.
Mykelti's pregnant, and we're having a big gender reveal party today.
So, we're getting everybody on the videochat.
-Hi! -[chuckles]
[Christine] I'm really honestly interested to see
how the kids are
with Kody and Robyn on the call.
I don't care if they're on the call.
But I know that there's a lot of friction between some of the kids.
-How are you feeling, sis? -[woman 2 laughing] Gosh.
I'm well. Pregnancy sucks.
-Yeah. -But honestly, I'm fine.
I was nervous that, like, Gabe and Garrison won't even show up.
Wait, you can see everyone.
Maddie is jumping on.
[no audio]
Um, Logan and Aspyn are running a little late,
but they're gonna be here soon.
Um, it's fun to see everybody.
[woman 3] Say hi... [indistinct]
[Janelle] I'm hoping that we can all get on,
and just be cordial and be adults
and be grownup about this,
and enjoy this process with Tony and Mykelti,
and then go our separate ways.
See Grandpa, and Grandma,
and Ysabel, and Hunter,
and Grandma, and Savanah,
and Gabe, there's Maddie. Say, "Hi!"
[Janelle] You know, even though our last interaction
was on a text thread,
we weren't looking each other in the eye.
We didn't have something that, where we were rallying around,
like Tony and Mykelti, so I think this is a very different situation.
[Kody] Well, I'm pretty nervous.
Um, I'm, it just, I haven't had
a really positive experience with some of my children.
I'm just going in, um,
like this is about Tony, Mykelti, and babies, you know?
[overlapping chatter]
[Robyn] I'm hoping that them seeing Kody and I,
and our smiles and, like, our encouragement,
will help them to realize that I'm not the bad guy.
[Aurora] I wanted to speak up on behalf of my mom
and all the efforts that she's made and,
like, no matter what anyone
believes or feels,
the truth is that she's been one of the biggest, if not the biggest,
cheerleader for, like, good, healthy relationships and correspondence
between Dad and the kids, and Dad and the other wives.
-[overlapping chatter] -We get see everyone. They're fine.
Oh, sorry, rude. We should mute ourselves.
We're doing bad at this... [no audio]
-[woman 4] One for each? -One for each because
we're not cool enough to have one kid
-for our 12 canons. -[woman 5] Oh.
[Janelle] I think it's great that Robyn and Kody are on this call.
They are a couple. I don't have a problem with seeing them as a couple,
them participating in family stuff as a couple.
It's just what it is.
What gender you guys think the twins are?
I think it's a girl and a boy.
One and one. One and one.
-[man 1] One and two. -One girl one boy.
I like one and one.
-[Mykelti] One girl one boy? -Caleb said one girl one boy, too.
I was really happy that, you know,
even though there's, like, strife and struggle, they are still like,
"Well, this is still a family.
Um, we can still try to be a family."
Which is ultimately always what I've wanted,
is that even through this separation,
that my family is still a family, just different.
Yeah, I think it says something that
they're willing to get together for
big life stuff.
Tells you that there's still something there,
which is nice to see.
-Okay, one, two-- -Should we all count together?
-Yeah, together. One, two, three. -[man 2] One...
-Three. Hah! -[all cheering, laughing]
I saw two blue.
Two blue.
-[woman 6] Yeah. -Two for blue.
[happily] Yeah, two boys. Two boys.
-Congratulations, that's amazing. -Yeah!
Ah, two boys!
I'm just as excited as I would be
if they were a pair of girls.
-That's awesome! -I see a...[indistinct]
[all laughing]
[Kody] So, this whole videochat was very bittersweet.
Mostly sweet.
But I started out being
almost in a state of paranoia with anxiety
over the contempt that has been thrown my direction.
Two boys. Ooh.
[indistinct] ...so they're not identical,
so we don't have to worry about them.
About mixing them up.
It would be absolutely amazing and a dream
if my family could completely reconcile,
and all of us could go back to being
one unified family.
I think that they all need each other, ultimately.
I think that all my siblings need each other.
I think that Robyn's kids need Janelle's kids,
and my mom's kids, and Meri's kids.
We all need each other.
I think that ultimately we all need our moms, too,
as hard as it is, we all need our moms.
She goes, "My cousin, Avalon."
-[overlapping chatter] -Aw.[laughs]
-[indistinct] -That's my cousin, Avalon.
[Janelle] I mean, Kody really doesn't have
much contact with many of these people
in these boxes.
Here's the thing, Tony and Mykelti love and Robyn,
and we know that.
We have a good relationship with them.
And that made it all okay.
I mean, I'm hoping that eventually we get to the point
where we will all be able to get together in person.
-[muah] -Bye!
-Bye, y'all.[laughs] -Bye guys.
-Bye. -[man 3] Ciao!
[Christine] I'm not interested in getting back together again for something yet.
All I'm going to be is cordial.
I would love to say I'm going to be more, but I'm not.
And I'm not interested in that either.
[in baby voice] Bye...[indistinct]. Love you.
-[no audio] -Bye, guys. Love you.
[Kody] Someday, our family civil war may end.
And then that contempt, you know, we can deal with it.
And Robyn and I are gonna be like this.
You're not gonna separate us.
They want their dad, but they don't want Robyn.
That's not gonna work.
Robyn and I are gonna be like this,
and we're gonna work this out.
And that's just the relationship we're gonna be in.
Yeah, I don't know where Meri was.
I thought Meri and Mykelti were good.
Our older kids choose who they want to have relationships with.
She's not comfortable with everybody in the family.
She won't be on any other
things for Mykelti and her children.
I have been travelling all weekend.
So, I'm here in Parowan.
We're working on remodeling this carriage house.
It's gonna be my shop, my boutique space
for my clothing business.
Even though I do this business mostly online,
there's gonna be the potential, eventually,
to bring people in and do shopping
actually here in my space.
I just wanted to stop here and check on some things,
and then obviously check on
the current status of the carriage house.
Here I go.
What is happening?
I guess they have to punch some holes in the walls.
Things are happenin'.
Slowly but surely.
So, a few months ago, Kody and I had our anniversary.
It was our 32nd anniversary, and we were out on a drive,
and he basically at that point told me
that our relationship was not gonna ever heal.
He actually said to me,
"I have no desire, Meri,
to have a relationship with you."
This puts it on me now.
When Kody and I got married,
we made a promise to each other.
God was involved, it was a very spiritual thing.
Our plans were to be married for eternity.
How much is this eternal covenant
worth to me?
But then I also think, "But really, has he already broken the covenant,
so what covenant is there?"
Change is good.
Changing up, leveling up.
Doing some amazing things
in my life and businesses.
I'm still just trying to figure out what to do.
What now?
This is just kind of a start to it.
Just kind of able to see, like, this physical,
physical changes happening.
It's kind of cool. I'm excited.
To be eternally bound to somebody who doesn't want me,
it's a lot to consider.
I'm not interested in casual hookups.
I don't really, I don't wanna do that.
I guess I'm just not in much of a hurry.
I like the idea of being in a romantic,
loving relationship a lot.
I'm not gonna be hanging out where lots of single men are,
whatever, you know?
Definitely sure as hell not doing that online dating thing.
I don't get the whole swiping thing. I don't get that.
Ysabel has to go back home to North Carolina.
I am not happy. This is not a good situation.
No, it has been nice having her.
It's been really, really nice having Ysabel for the summer.
[woman 7 speaks indistinctly] ...do you like lobster?
Uh, I have begun to like lobsters.
[woman 7] Oh, really? Awesome.
[Christine] So, we're having complete surf and turf.
Steak, lobster, and crab legs.
Like, we're just going all out for Ysabel.
-It says I need to stick it under the shell. -[Avalon fussing]
Hi! Oh, I do love to hug you. Hi!
Hi! Oh, you wanna... [indistinct]
[overlapping chatter]
[Christine] Avalon's adorable. She's adorable.
She's actually getting busier.
A nice thing about Ysabel coming this summer
is our life is completely different
than when she left us.
And now she gets to see us settled.
It's home, and we're home.
And she likes that. She likes how it feels when we're home.
[woman 8 chuckles]
I would love it if Ysabel moved back here.
Are you kidding me?
She needs to do what she's going to do.
She needs to figure this out. It is her life.
Tony's always asking me about my dating life. Always.
And so, of course, naturally, Ysabel's farewell dinner
turns into about my dating life. It's ridiculous.
I never dated anybody.
Kody was the first boy I kissed,
and it was after we were married.
Yup, it's true.
-[Mykelti] Aspyn and I... [indistinct] -But wait, wait. Okay, okay.
Wait just a minute. What?
[overlapping chatter]
[all laughing]
[indistinct chatter]
Oh, my gosh. Is this really the conversation we're having?
I'm not interested in casual hookups.
I don't really, I don't wanna do that.
See what's what.
You know...
This is Ysabel's farewell dinner,
why are we talking about me dating?
Why am I continuing with this conversation.
They're ridiculous.
-[Tony] Mmm-hmm. -[Christine] I haven't.
It is frightening. I'm entering the dating world at 50.
Everyone comes with a past,
everyone comes with a history, and mine's really complicated.
I just wanna move on with my life
and forget about the past,
and just everything, and all the hurts,
and all the pain, and all the frustration.
It's like, "Look, we're just all different people now."
I'll just continue being, you know, with Janelle.
I love it, I'm just saying.
[Janelle] Kody and Robyn are kind of really wrapped up in raising their kids.
Meri is spending a lot more time at the B&B.
My kids are all great,
and so I have an opportunity to go
do this road trip with Christine, so I'm gonna go.
We've been invited to go up to Christine's brother's house
and drive some ATVs, which I've never done before.
And it'll be just a really great chance to hang out with Christine
and, uh, get to know her family a little more.
[Christine] I want to ask you about a comment that Robyn made.
Robyn was like,
talked about how if I was still, like, usually in the church,
you have to get, like,
-the approval and stuff of, and... -Yeah.
-Which is true, if... -But we all know I'm not part
-of that church, right? -[Janelle] If you're in the church. Right. So...
Am I the only one that's not in the church in the adults?
If we were still part of our church,
we would have had to go through some, like,
counselling and things like that, like,
the head of the church has to agree
to let you get, like, spiritually divorced.
There's no ecclesiastical authority that I believe in
that would sever my relationship with Kody,
and sever my marriage with Kody.
-Aren't all the adults not in the church? -I don't,
I don't, I mean, I haven't been to church
with anybody in a long, long time.
And all I can think is that she was just,
like, it was like deer in the headlight, maybe?
And, like, she was like, reacting from...
-I don't know. -Well, she was thinking it invalidated her marriage
if I could just leave when I wanted to.
In our faith, our spiritual marriages mean more
almost than the legal marriages.
Well, they do mean more.
And they are not something you can just easily decide to not do.
No, there has to be something
that keeps, puts teeth
in these agreements that we make.
So, do they, and does it invalidate you?
-That I just left? -No, 'cause I mean... No.
-[indistinct] -I don't, and I don't know,
like, I've had to really think about this, 'cause I'm like,
you know, obviously, my marriage is not good.
I don't think I really even am married anymore.
Kody and I really haven't had the official conversation,
but I haven't seen him in, like,
he hasn't been in my house in, like, 10 months or something.
-That doesn't sound like you're married. -[Janelle] And...
-No. -I'm just saying.
[Christine] This is one of those delicate balances where
I've never wanted to sway her to leave Kody,
even though it was the best decision that I made.
[Kody] I spent most my life
trying to constantly fit square pegs into round holes.
Feel that movement?
[Brian] We did measure the length of this, right?
[Kody] No, we didn't.
I force things to fit,
rather than going, "Is this a fit?"
[Kody] My life has changed a lot.
And it's interesting because
I don't really feel like a polygamist anymore.
Uh, it's been 10 months since I've been to Janelle's house.
I don't even know what's going on
hardly half the time with Meri's life.
Now I've got all this time that Robyn and I,
we've got sort of this special life together.
I mean, it's been challenging one way, but you know what?
I do have some time to spend with my friend.
So, Brian's been in town for business.
And him and I have got some business we're gonna wrap up today.
Um, so we can figure out which hitch we think
-is gonna be best here. -[Brian] Yeah, let's measure it.
I was the one that married Brian to his wife, Judith.
I performed their wedding ceremony.
And that was actually a special experience.
And now, I'm thinking this one,
'cause the weight is gonna pull you down to the level.
And Brian's got a little car lot in Oklahoma.
So, I sold him these three vehicles.
He bought the pickup, and he bought my sports car.
And he bought this little car that I'd been just
farming around the kids, you know?
I got a trailer, we're gonna haul that car in it,
and then this pickup truck is gonna pull 'em both.
[Brian] We shoulda put some lubrication
-on that jack. -[Kody] I think it's on. [laughs]
[creaking]
[Brian] Kody does not need a project,
and he does not need to rebuild a car.
You know, I said, "You got kids, you got wives,
you got houses you're building, you're doing stuff.
You don't need to rebuild this car."
Best case scenario, Brian and I change the hitch,
we get the trailer back on,
we get the car in the trailer,
load it, lock down,
and the truck will pull it.
Worst case scenario, Brian drives the truck
and comes back another time for the sports car. [laughs]
[Brian] Let's not forget we gotta change that ball.
-[both laughing] -The ball, yes.
[Brian] When we get...
I'm a little nervous.
Now that Brian and I have the trailer fixed,
and it's hooked up to the truck,
we're gonna driver her from Coyote Pass
over to Robyn's house,
where we will load the car up into the trailer.
[fake crying] It'll be so sad to see my car go.
When you're going through a hard experience,
the presence of other men who respect and love you,
um, help endure that experience.
It also takes the focus off of everything going on
with the family, those struggles,
when him and I are focused on accomplishing something.
It's a help to move me
away from what is hard about my life in other ways.
This car has been part of my life for so long.
I feel like we might both end up crying over this car.
-For different reasons. -For different reasons.
Car's 2002, it's... it's, uh, it's 20 years old.
Now, it's a classic.
The white sports car was definitely Kody's baby.
[Kody] I remember driving with Gwendlyn through Yellowstone park in it.
You know, Janelle and I'd go camping in it.
[Janelle] You know, I can remember that Kody was so excited
because he got a sports car and it had a back seat...
Wasn't much of a back seat.
Ysabel was the last person out of the kids to drive the white sports car.
Her driving in the sports car was, like, my favorite.
[Kody] Robyn and I fell in love in this car.
I got my answer about Kody in the white sports car, too.
I felt God talking to me.
There's a lot of fun stuff that happened in that white sports car.
I... I went... I...
This is the car I was driving when I went... first went public...
-Yeah. -...with the polygamy thing.
-Yeah, in Utah. -[chuckles] Yeah.
I like marriage, uh,
and I'm a repeat offender.
I admitted to the world, basically, that I was a polygamist
when I was driving that car.
Ah, yeah, there we go.
All right, we're going low.
[Brian] Okay, go to the right a little.
-Okay... Okay, how much room do you have? -[Kody] Are we clear now?
-I got an inch. I got two. -I got an inch.
Okay, right there. Whoa, whoa.
We're gonna get in. All you need is a quarter inch.
Keep coming.
As long as it doesn't touch the car, we're fine.
Oh, yeah, you're good. You're good on my side.
You got a little extra room if you need it.
I don't know how much room I'm getting here as I go in.
Oh, wait. Woo-hoo.
'Cause all of a sudden we're wondering,
do we have enough room?
Feel that movement?
-[Brian] We did measure the length of this, right? -[Kody] No, we didn't.
We measured it side to side but we didn't
measure it from front to back, we don't know.
[Brian] Keep coming, keep coming.
Six inches, keep coming.
-[Kody] Whoa, you sure? -[Brian] Keep coming.
-[Kody] You sure my... I'm not against it? -[Brian] You're not.
I'm still just being optimistic that we're even gonna fit.
[Brian] Stop.
-[Kody] Check and see if we're good? -We're touching.
And I don't know what's happening.
[Brian] It's gonna get dark for a second.
[Kody] Here's pray... Here's praying.
Oh, my gosh!
This is gonna be, like, two inches that is not going to go our way.
[Kody] What if I pressure on to the other side? What do you think?
[Brian] Feel like you could go through the front of the trailer.
Oh, boy. We're all the way to the front
and I just don't see how it's gonna be safe to
just strap the door tight.
I mean, we need three more inches.
-[Brian] I knew we should've measured that. -Yeah, yeah...
-[Brian] The second I said it... -I wasn't even thinking.
-...I knew we were screwed. -I wasn't even thinking.
I thought, this has gotta be a 12-foot car,
not a 14-foot car.
We got, uh... uh...
There's nothing to be done here.
-[Brian] Straight, straight, straight. -[Kody] Gosh. [chuckles]
I've spent most of my life as this polygamist
trying to constantly fit, um,
square pegs into round holes.
There's just no way to squeeze, it's too much.
I... I feel good. It's like the adventures of Kody and Brian, man.
-[Brian] Yeah. -It's kind of... This is nuts.
I force things to fit rather than going, "Is this a fit?"
-I thought she had jacked up the bumper... -No.
...and I thought, "Well, let's just take the bumper off."
-But that's not gonna do it. -No.
-Okay. Shoot. -Next... next trip.
Next trip, man.
I've had to learn through my experiences in plural marriage
that the square peg is not a good idea to f...
pound into the round hole.
Oh, there's no doubt that I probably flirted with Janelle a little bit.
[Janelle] You know, he would always kind of joke,
"Oh, why don't you come be in our family?"
I just remember talking to her a lot.
Was that flirting?
[Janelle] I don't consider myself married. I consider myself, definitely separate.
Divorced, separated, I don't know.
I feel like, over the past ten months
Janelle has really made it difficult for me to feel like I'm married to her anymore.
It's just... she's just constantly gone, I don't think we can reconcile.
Um, and...
I don't disagree with her but
I sometimes feel like, "Are we just giving up too easy?"
I really just don't know how I would define my marriage to Janelle.
I had such a strong
-spiritual-- -So, he hasn't even been at your house in ten months.
Well, I mean, he's come over to, like...
He came and saw the new place.
Since school started I haven't heard from him.
Savanah hasn't heard from him in, like, I don't know, a month.
I haven't been in Janelle's house in ten months.
But it doesn't mean that I haven't been around.
I have a very busy life. I love going to bed at night and reading my book
and turning out the light when I want to turn it out and
the dogs are on the bed with me 'cause he never could stand that.
Like, I mean, just... I get to do my thing, you know.
I like being single. I love being single. I love it.
First of all, I'm not interested in dating, at all.
I'm not even interested, I'm not looking.
I don't even look at guys or men.
Like, I just... it's just... it's just [exclaims]
I just don't... I don't... It's too much work. I don't wanna do that.
I'm not looking. I'm not gonna be hanging out
where lots of single men are or whatever, you know.
Definitely, sure as hell not doing that online dating thing. I don't...
get that whole swiping thing, I don't get that.
And so, I'm like, you know if I were in a place
where I really wanted to find somebody again, I'd probably have to give it more thought.
For me, I don't wanna break my covenant without knowing God's completely cool with it.
I don't know. Don't know how that happens but
I'm waiting till I know.
-So, I don't know but... -That's absolutely frustrating.
-I'm sorry. -...for me, like, I had such a spiritual witness
-to marry Kody. Like, I knew... -Yes!
-...I should marry him. I knew it... -Yes.
...I knew it without a doubt.
I was friends with Meri's family before, um, she even met Kody.
She wanted me to come meet her new boyfriend,
so I was there and he walked in the room and it was, like,
I remembered. It was like when you see somebody that you haven't seen for a long time.
There was all that emotional, like, "Oh, there you are." You know, that feeling.
And I had that feeling the minute I saw him walk in the room.
You know, he would always kind of joke,
"Oh, why don't you come be in our family?"
Oh, there's no doubt that I probably flirted with Janelle a little bit.
I just remember talking to her a lot.
Was that flirting?
Well, if we were both smiling at each other, it must've been.
As I started to do a lot of my own study
and I was embracing the faith,
I asked him, I said, "Look, I think I'm supposed to be in your family."
And he said, "Okay, let's pray about it."
There was no doubt in my mind that's who I was supposed to be married to.
Oh, yeah. I definitely knew I should marry Kody.
It was a strong spiritual witness, um,
and, yeah, it was... no regrets.
And then, when it was time to leave, it was also time to leave.
And I just knew without a doubt, also, that it was time to go.
I know that I didn't make a mistake in marrying him.
I would do it all over again.
I didn't think these kinds of things had an expiration date but
it appears that our relationship might have had an expiration date.
So, you still have a testimony that you are going to live plural marriage
and that's where you want to be.
I am open to it.
-Okay. -Whether I live it again or not, I don't know...
-Okay. -...'cause, but I'm open to it but I see no venue for it.
I... I mean, where am I gonna go, I can't... I...
-There's nothing. Yeah. -...You know what I mean? So...
-Wow. -...So, I don't know.
Would you welcome a marriage again, right now
-or just be done? Okay. -No.
'Cause last time we talked, like, when we were at that rental,
-the rental house in Flag... -Yeah, no, yeah.
No, I'm not at all interested
-in reconciling with him at all. -[Christine] Okay, okay.
Feel like Janelle is full-on talking about leaving Kody at this point.
This is full-on leaving.
We used to have this magical four days
-of feasting for Thanksgiving. -Yes, I know and
-when Robyn came a lot of those traditions changed. -They changed.
-Well, we stopped doing our Friday night dinners. -Mmm-hmm.
Every single Saturday we were doing things
and Robyn came in the family and it stopped. It all stopped.
She was a separate entity from us and...
and Kody ended up being there quite a bit.
Robyn always supported our family traditions
because that was part of the negotiation that we made when we got married.
In fact, she actually enhanced our traditions.
For me, I think that they just found each other. I think he found a soulmate.
I think, and you probably feel differently
which is completely fine, it doesn't work with plural marriage, at all.
But it just seemed to me that that's what it felt like,
was that he found his soulmate and that's who he wanted to be with and
she didn't really wanna do stuff together,
I don't know.
I think Kody's very happy to be, uh, Robyn's husband.
One of the things a plural husband is supposed to do
is he needs to grow beyond himself.
I think for a long time he really tried, he really tried hard.
Somewhere along the line he found somebody who
was alike, like, thought like him,
like, was more like him. Like, kind of, his...
It was easy to be with her.
He should've continued to grow beyond that,
to be able to meet the needs of all the other women.
I really think, for some reason, their relationship
seems to be really great for him.
Like, that's kind of, he seems to be really wanting to focus there more.
That's great. That's fine with me. It is, because
I... I... I know I don't want him to come back.
But, so, I'm not making any decisions now.
-You do. -I still have family.
-[Christine] Yes, yes. -I don't have a husband, I guess.
I have an amazing relationship with Janelle.
It's fantastic.
And if... if we didn't figure things out
and become friends and
been together like we have,
um, leaving would look a lot different.
Janelle made an obvious, definite choice to support me.
I remember crying when we were all talking
and she's like, "What am I gonna do about my kids and stuff?"
When I first told everybody I was gonna leave she was heartbroken.
But she still was supportive and she still was amazing
and decided to still wanna do things with me
and raise our kids together and be a unit together.
Honestly, at the core, the people that I would be devastated the most to lose
are... are you and your kids.
Yeah, I don't miss Kody, I don't really miss Robyn.
I don't... I haven't talked to Meri in almost a year.
Like, I haven't talked to her since before Thanksgiving last year.
I mean, Janelle and I, the reason why she can be my sister wife
is because we're the only part of our plural family that survived.
Kody and Robyn are living in monogamy.
Th... they just are.
And Meri's not part of the equation with their family.
I still have this core family unit in my mind.
This is what this is. Christine's kids, my kids,
the way they're so connected,
I still feel like there's a core family unit here.
Like, we really truly are...
sister wives.
[Janelle] I have this little nagging fear in the back of my head
that I'm going into a weekend full of
having to defend my choices.
If I could do anything I would be out there, like, knocking on the door, saying,
"Get yourself financially independent!"
'Cause then you have choices.
Do you know what she's talking about here?
And what she's hinting at here?
So, we're here visiting Levi and Steve.
Steve is my little brother from my... my mom.
But when my mom left my dad
he actually moved in with my dad and my other mom.
And then Levi is my little brother from my other mom,
so, basically, Steve, from my mom
and Levi from my other mom really grew up as full siblings, honestly.
All right, so let me, uh, pull these out real quick
and I'll kinda show you guys how they work out [indistinct]
Oh, yeah, baby, are you excited to know?
I am, but I'm also, like, I don't know,
like, butterflies a little bit.
One of the biggest reasons I wanted Janelle to come up here to Idaho
is because I wanted her to drive her own ATV.
Janelle's actually leaving me behind in the dust.
She is doing super great and now she's just going.
It's good to see this side of her.
I'm just so proud of her for taking control and
taking charge but having fun, and going for it.
So, I just wish that for her.
Taking charge of her life and having some fun and just going for it.
You know, I've never driven an ATV all by myself and this was so much fun.
It was really good reason to come up here
and just hang out with Christine's brothers.
I'm so glad we came.
That was actually...
That was actually so much fun.
I've been worried that, um,
especially, with Christine's feelings about plural marriage
I've been worried that I'm going into a situation where they're not gonna be
super friendly about the idea of... of plural marriage.
Hi. Steve.
I don't think so,
but I have this little nagging fear in the back of my head
that I'm going into a weekend full of
having to defend my choices.
Yeah, it's so cool that, uh... Yeah, it's so cool to see you again.
It's been, uh, awesome that you and Chris have been able to
-hang out so much. -[Janelle] Yeah. Yeah.
We actually are having a lot of fun.
[Christine] Janelle and I will always, like, do stuff together.
Like, we... like, we really feel like...
I feel like we just raised our kids together so much,
so, we're... we're always just gonna do stuff together.
[Janelle] So, okay, so, tell me, um,
did you... did you guys live in one house?
Yeah, Dad had our mom downstairs and then
-Levi's mom upstairs. -Upstairs.
-That was the final when they lived together. -Now, now, that
only worked... That did not work well for a long time.
Do you remember it not working?
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there was, there was a couple of times where they were, like,
just furious and, like, yelling at each other and stuff.
My dad married my other mom when I was five,
and I lived in polygamy my whole entire life
and loved the idea of living in polygamy.
I remember how bad I wanted to have sister wives.
When I was 17 I was, like, "Yes, that's exactly what I wanna do."
I wanted to be a third wife at 17
and I... I really, honestly loved our community.
I loved our church.
I loved... I had a great childhood. All of it was great.
Seeing that firsthand growing up, I mean, it was, like,
there were some times where you could, I mean, you could just feel the tension
in the room.
-[Janelle] We get it. -I mean, it was like you could cut the tension with a knife
growing up. I mean, you know, we were just young kids and it was, like,
you have this atmosphere in the house where you're just, like,
-"Holy smokes," like, "Who's gonna blow up today?" -[Janelle] Yeah, yeah.
To me, I didn't even notice the tension. I just thought they were fine.
It was a lot of people in that house
and I remember it being a party and having so much fun.
And I also remember being a moody teenager and slamming a lot of doors.
[laughs]
So, Janelle and I, we lived together in a little trailer
and then, we also lived together, again, several times.
-We lived in the same home. -[Janelle] In small spaces.
For years we were in the same home.
[Steve] Exactly, it's like, everybody just needs a little bit of space.
In the very beginning all four of us lived in a three-bedroom mobile home.
We were so idealistic, we thought we could
do this, like, utopia family.
Like, we thought we could make it all work.
There was nothing but just this little thin paper wall
so, I mean, there was a lot of things that just created conflict.
[Christine] One little tiny kitchen,
and it's a trailer with tissue paper walls.
Just... no.
It was not a good time. It was a very miserable time.
Try to make it abundantly clear, I've had, uh,
as little to do with polygamy as possible.
I try to be respectful.
It's just about everybody trying to find their path in life. It's, like,
you know, we're all just on this adventure together.
[Levi] By and large, it's like for me, no,
I mean, it's... it's hard enough man and woman
layering that on, as you guys are experienced,
-I think this makes it even that much more difficult. -Yeah.
[Christine] So, when you met Levi
you were still thinking of kind of, maybe, sort of,
possibly living in polygamy.
Uh, I... I... I would--
-[Christine] Okay, okay. -No, no, no, no.
[Christine] I was just...
Oh! Okay.
If he was, I had no idea.
Okay, okay.
He didn't tell me for about a year.
And so, when I finally dropped the bomb, like,
nine months later when she really liked me
-it was devastating for her. -[Christine laughs]
-It was? -Well, I was...
I was scared he was gonna ask me to be one of.
-Oh, no. -[Levi speaks indistinctly]
-No, yeah. -I didn't know. Yeah, he... I didn't know he wasn't...
planning on practicing polygamy at the time.
[Steve] I think, from a lot of people's perspectives polygamy's done so much harm,
so, I understand, now, like, why it was made illegal
'cause they're trying to, you know, protect girls...
-[Janelle] Right. Right. -...protect the women and
that's definitely a good thing.
Yeah, at the same time, I mean, we're in a whole new day and age where,
you know, people need to be able to be open and
be who they wanna be and
you know, we need to recognize,
you know, people for who they are.
I think, and this will never happen
but all you gotta do is give those women a legal marriage
and then the husband can't... 'cause he'll...
'Cause they can take and... they can divorce 'em and take part of his assets and...
Yeah, there we go, right.
-Yeah, exactly. -[Janelle] Like, honestly,
if they were all legally married to him he'd really have to toe the line.
In theory, a man can just ghost a wife.
He can just stop coming over, he can stop
paying any kind of support towards her household.
He's no... he's not legally obligated
and she can make no legal claim on him.
She should have a claim on him, financially.
They've been married. They've had children together.
Maybe there's child support. Maybe there's alimony. Maybe there's... I don't know.
I feel like it would be healthier all the way around if the women,
and the men felt like they had options.
It'd be a little harder to divorce,
so, coming from what I've just had to deal with just leaving Kody,
um, I can see that it would be awesome
-to have the legal marriage... -[Janelle] It's never gonna happen.
...'cause then you are protected. You're 100% right.
Do you know what she's talking about here?
And what she's hinting at here?
Basically, what Janelle is saying is
if I would've had a legal marriage with Kody
and if she would've had a legal marriage with Kody, and Meri too,
that when it came down to leave
it'd be also illegal divorce.
Which would mean it would be a 50-50 split
of everything.
I'm sitting here because my finances are also
mish-mashed right now with everybody's.
That I'm, like,
I... I'm having to fight hard to get my,
my estate separated.
I really feel strongly
that women should all be empowered in plural marriage...
with financial choices, with financial power,
with claim on their husband's estates,
because I think that would level the playing field like [whooshes]
So, if we were all legally married the courts would divide the assets
based on the relationships.
[Kody] My whole goal was to always have the wives each have their own assets.
Janelle and Meri and Robyn and I
each own 25% of Coyote Pass.
Christine was able to sell her house and leave
and start over again and do something different.
And I have no idea if I'm even gonna get anything.
[Meri] Janelle's name is on two of those pieces of property,
mine is on one.
And neither of us
own that piece of property outright.
Even with the conflict that we have in the family right now,
I still believe that it's gonna be divided up
equally and fairly between the four of us.
If I could do anything I would be out there, like, knocking on the door, saying,
"Get yourself financially independent!"
'Cause then you have choices.
And that's not something that a lot of women,
for some reason, culturally, they don't... think about.
One of the reasons she's still with Kody
is because of this. 'Cause she has nothing in her name.
[narrator] Next time on Sister Wives...
[Kody] Our whole lives are being unwound.
Nothing's like it was. Everything has changed.
You know, we were raised in a culture where marriage is forever, right?
Like, I'm still spiritually married to Kody.
Like, I don't know how to get a divorce that way.
According to our religion, sister wives are supposed to advocate for each other.
I'm not gonna apologize for what I need to do.
You want something that we can't have together.
[sobs]
Robyn came into our family, specifically, to live plural marriage.
[sobbing] I wanted to sit on a porch
with my sister wives.
This appears to be the end of our plural marriage.