[narrator] Previously on Sister Wives...
Do you understand that you lie?
That's the reason I call you "the Teflon queen".
- I don't lie. - 'Cause you're lying about what has happened...
- [Janelle] It's wild-- - ...and what's been going on.
It's wild to me that you think I lie,
because I think you're manipulating.
I got into this conversation wanting to keep it logical,
and I figured we would take this step by step.
Really, truly, I don't think he-- he-he's looking for an excuse.
Tell the world how I've lied,
how I've manipulated, how I've done you wrong.
I don't know what there is to talk about.
[Meri] Janelle not coming over on Christmas?
- No. - [Leon] I thought you were talking to her
about this and stuff.
Oh no, we didn't talk. We yelled at each other.
So, in my mind, he is out of the house.
I'm gonna have Aspyn and Mitch Mykelti and Tony over
and we're going to paint on canvases
pictures for Valentine's day.
Okay, there are these big brushes,
I don't how big of a brush you need.
- And there's this. - Here's another big one.
There's that, and then...
Tony, if you wanna do a base coat,
- you can. - [indistinct conversation]
Listen, I-I love going to, like, paint and wine nights.
It's just super fun, it's just a blast.
Um, I don't know what are we painting.
Mom, what are we painting?
[Christine] It's a Valentine's day theme.
It's just a tree with hearts on it.
Tony and Mykelti are doing fantastic.
So, they have Avalon now.
It's fun to watch your kids become a couple.
It's even more fun to watch your kids
and their spouse become parents.
Tony is an adorable dad with Avalon.
It's adorable.
She is the busiest kid.
She's really the love of my life.
'Kay, everyone needs to get their palettes
and put on your palette white, black, all your colors.
The colors are black, blue, orange
- white and red. - What do we need the most of?
I don't know, I've never done this before.
Aspyn and Mitch have been married for a couple years.
It's awesome to see how well they do
and how well they communicate and work things out
and they're just a great couple to be around.
So, you guys excited?
You can have Avalon for your Valentine.
I am gonna have Avalon for my Valentine.
So, you guys can go out on a date.
Valentine's Day was something that was just always--
we didn't know what to do.
It's not a really polygamous-friendly holiday,
if you can imagine, it's like... [exhales softly]
[Janelle] Um, you know, I'm not planning much for Valentine's day this year.
Kody and I definitely not in communication.
Plus, if we were, I wouldn't really wanna do Valentine's day
with him or with the family.
[Robyn] Valentine's day is a turkey holiday
for a plural family.
This year, it's just...
Holy crap,
complicated and hard and horrible.
I'm not doing a damn thing for Valentine's day. [laughs]
Listen, you have to have a Valentine
to do Valentine's day.
We-- I painted this, like, so, one that I did with Ysabel,
I mean, they all end up in the garbage eventually.
- I can make-- - Oh, that's sad.
Dad and I did one together,
which...
Did you keep that one?
Um, no, didn't keep that one.
- Do you still have it? - Nope.
- I did not-- - Is it framed upstairs somewhere?
And you're waiting to...
- be in love again? - Nope.
[indistinct conversation]
If mom kept something from dad?
- Yeah. - [Christine laughs]
Yeah, Kody wasn't very--
There were some times where he would, like,
bring over a Valentine's day gift.
I got vases to happy--
[indistinct conversation]
- [Kody] Hey, beautiful! - [kid] Give that to my mom.
[Christine] Sometimes, he would just give it too you there at night
with everybody there.
So, I should have more sympathy and empathy for Kody.
But I didn't, not really.
Now, he just has Robyn so he's probably fine.
Oh, that was snarky.
That was rude.
[Mykelti] Are you gonna move on and find a new husband?
- Yes. - When?
So, Truely-- this is not ready,
and I'll probably talk to Truely about it and see.
But I do have to tell you guys something.
So, I've been talking to a matchmaker.
[Mykelti] Like, the professional kind?
- The famous-- - Like the professional kind, yeah.
I'm nervous.
I'm super nervous about dating, um...
[sighs]
Super nervous about dating.
And I don't-- I'm not ready.
I didn't have a great, intimate marriage.
At all.
And so, the idea of putting myself out there again,
just, no.
No, I'm not ready.
For his body,
I want bold tattoos
and driving a motorcycle, that's the vision.
Just saying, the tattoos will be fantastic.
Just ca-- [laughs] that's pretty much...
Kody's opposite, not on purpose, but maybe.
I'm just looking for something that Kody never was
because I-- I just want someone who's a partner,
a good communicator, someone who's funny,
I'd love a sense of humor.
Um, I told them about everything, like,
whole big family and everything, and they said, "You know,
for-- first, why don't we lead with
that you have six kids but you have three grandkids.
I told my matchmaker everything,
from being public to being a polygamist,
to leaving to my kids.
They might as well know everything.
They might as well, and then they can kinda pick and choose
what do you think would be a good thing to start with.
Well, let's just start that you're a female and you're 50, [chuckles]
and you have some kids, and that's it.
That's it, that's all they need to know.
So, I am definitely going for a monogamous this time.
- I'm done with the polygamy thing, just-- - Good.
So, the issue is like, I feel like, with polygamy, once you try it once,
- really, what's the point after that? - You'll try again?
Not for me. Uh, it did,
I'm not gonna say it didn't, 'cause I'm not gonna regret where I am,
- you know? - That's good, 'cause you got me from polygamy.
Right, all of you guys are because of polygamy.
So I don't regret it at all.
It took me a long time to leave.
It took me years to leave.
So, leaving our church, I was going to do it classy,
leaving my marriage, I was gonna do it classy
and I was gonna do it without bitterness.
That doesn't mean that sometimes I'm frustrated
and sometimes I'm angry and sometimes I'm disappointed and I...
don't like all of the control that happens.
I'm still gonna be as classy as possible.
We'll go on several dates.
- Like, whoever, and if it doesn't work... - Yeah.
...I'll go on some dates again.
But it's only gonna be with people who
I can trust around.
Yeah?
Tony, did you try all the ice cream flavors?
- [Tony] Yeah. - He did, mom.
Tony tried every single ice cream flavor out there.
- Twice. - [Tony] Yes.
Before he settled on me.
It's just...
He is just a little [bleep]. [chuckles]
- I don't know-- - Every single ice cream flavor out there
has been sampled by my husband, mother.
Okay, well I don't know if I need to sample all the ice cream flavors.
Tony is not afraid to bring up things
that are...
[sighs] uncomfortable?
No, I will not be sampling all the ice cream flavors. No.
So, I was married to someone who apparently wasn't physically attracted to me.
And the biggest reason why I haven't dated
- is because-- - I don't-- I don't get that.
The-The biggest reason I haven't dated
is because, it sounds stupid,
it honestly is, it's been hard to get over that.
- [Aspyn] How did you-- - The thing is, you're gorgeous.
The biggest reason I left Kody was...
I didn't want to be in a marriage where my kids would know
that I was married to someone who wasn't attracted to me.
So, leaving was the choice.
'Cause I wasn't gonna stay in a marriage like that
and I wasn't gonna show my kids that that was acceptable,
'cause it's not.
It's real hard to get beyond that in my head.
- Right. - Yup.
And so I'm scared.
And so, I know we talked about going to a bar,
and we talked about all that stuff,
I'm not-- I'm not ready, I'm scared.
- It'll take-- - He's the only guy I've ever kissed.
Oh my God, what if I suck at kissing?
What if I suck at everything like that?
I don't know. I know that someone didn't like it.
Do you see why it's scary?
Do you see why it is terrifying?
It is terrifying.
So, I understand you're, like,
you're scared and stuff because...
I mean, you were married for 25-ish years,
and the guy you were married with was never into it
and that sucks.
But, that's his problem, not yours.
It's equal, scary and exciting all the time, both.
'Cause yes, I want to date,
but oh my God, no that sounds really, really, really terrifying,
scary and-- [exclaims in frustration] vulnerable, and-and no
and but still, at the same time yes,
gosh yes, see? It's a lot.
There's a lot going on.
Okay, I am gonna say...
- [Tony] No, it's true. - Thank you for your guys' support.
- [Tony] Absolutely... - Mmm.
I really like my kids.
I really like them a lot.
They're extremely supportive
and good and kind and...
wanting the best for me.
Okay, oh, God, can I just get behind you guys. Yup.
[all chuckling]
I'm not definitely getting full scoops of ice cream,
I might go and do, like, the, "Can I have a spoon of that flavor",
but just a spoon, you know, maybe.
But never a full scoop of any flavor.
That's way too much. [chuckles]
Way too much of anything.
I don't know!
Too much, bit too much. I don't know.
[chuckling]
So, I haven't said anything to Robyn yet
about what my plans are.
So, I'm planning on moving my clothing business.
I need to let Robyn know
'cause I feel like she's the only one who's really gonna care.
This is done? Like, you've made your decision?
It causes me a lot of anxiety, [chuckling] but yes.
[Janelle] I have an appointment to meet with Kody.
I have not seen him in about six weeks.
So, I'm gonna go over and talk to Kody
so, this is the first time...
that we're gonna really talk since out big fight before Christmas.
- You act like this is not your fault. - [Kody] Do you want
- this relationship between you and I to work? - I don't know, do you?
Because when you say "choose your loyalties,
choose between me and your children."
Now you are literally gaslighting.
- I am not. - I was only asking
- everybody to obey the rules of our home. - I--
I was always just really quick to want the conflict behind me
so I would just be like, "Okay", and we would never resolve anything.
We would just, sort of, pick up where we left off
and smooth over and whatever,
and I have realized, this time,
it's just not working for me anymore, I really...
wanna be treated differently, um...
I want some more things out of a relationship.
Can we do that with ours?
It would be stupid to throw away 30 years or whatever, but,
I don't know.
I really just don't know if we really can fix that.
- Hello! - [Meri] Mornin'.
[Jenn] How are you?
- [Meri] Fabulous. - Good.
So, my best friend Jenn runs the B&B for me.
So, today we're gonna be talking a little bit about
some of the plans that...
we've kind of been discussing.
I have to show you something that somebody brought.
- Or left. - [Jenn] For me? No.
I mean, her number one job title is BFF, bestie extraordinaire.
We're gonna have to
have something a little bit official
because that might look weird on a business card.
Check this out.
One of our guests left that.
- Aw. [chuckles] - Isn't that sweet?
[Jenn] I do love that.
One of the guests left this pillow
with a picture of me and my mom on it.
It was very sweet, you know, lot of people knew my mom.
Like, she was the kind of person
that, if you're around her,
you were all that mattered.
- Sweet. - Oh my God, it's been almost a year.
Almost a year.
[Jenn sighs]
[Jenn] Nope, not gonna cry, but I love it, I love it.
[Meri] My mom loved living here at the B&B.
She was like, so at home.
She absolutely loved it.
So, I haven't said anything to Robyn yet about what my plans are.
I wanted to a couple weeks ago,
like, really, there's no time that's gonna be good.
So, I'm planning on moving my clothing business
from Flagstaff up here to the B&B.
Um, I need to let Robyn know
'cause I feel like she's the only one who's really gonna care
and is honestly gonna kinda have a problem with it. [chuckles]
So, then, like, this is done? Like, you've made your decision?
- You what you're going to do like, for real? - [Meri sighs] Yeah.
It causes me a lot of anxiety, [chuckling] but yes.
I'm going to
move the clothing up here.
So that I can be here more often,
you can help me with that part of it. [laughs]
I will totally help you with that.
- [Meri] 'Cause I-- Yes, yes. - During school hours, you've got me.
[Jenn] I've been best friends with Meri for about ten-ish years.
We met because she hired me as a professional killer.
And so, I was murder-for-hire for a few years
and we just maintained our friendship through that.
[Meri wheezes]
- It's true. - [both laughing]
My relationship with Jenn is just a lot of fun.
We know how to laugh and have a good time.
In Las Vegas, I owned a pest control company
and so she hired my pest control company
and I provided pest control services
for all the homes and just became friends with her through that.
There's a lot going on, but at the same time,
like, I think she's going to understand.
You're-You're only gonna be here
- like, part-time, you'll still be going back. - Yeah.
So, I'd like my relationship with Kody to get to a place
where we have, like, a good marriage relationship.
But, that's not where it is right now,
and I feel like when I tell him
I'm gonna be moving my business up to the B&B,
he's going to interpret that as,
that I am done with this relationship.
And that's not where I am.
I'm-- purely selfishly, I love this,
- because, like, now you're here. - Oh, trust me,
- I love it too. [chuckles] - Like, we're back in the same town
- for the first time since Vegas. - I know.
- [Jenn] So, this is big for me. - I know.
Jenn and I have been friends for, like, so long.
She's really been there for me.
She was around when I did the legal divorce
so that Kody and Robyn could get married
and he could adopt the kids.
She was around...
and helped me figure out a lot of stuff
with the whole catfishing situation.
Jenn very much knows her boundaries,
and one of those is she's not gonna go out and talk about
me or my family.
Have you done anything in the carriage house?
I haven't been out there since it started to snow. [laughs]
[Meri] The carriage house has a lot of stuff in it.
I need to figure out cleaning that out
and what to do with all the stuff
because that's where I plan on putting the clothing business
once I move it up/
- Do you wanna go look at it? - Yeah, we should go look at it
and figure out a plan.
It's gonna be cold out there, are you ready? [chuckles]
- I don't care about the cold. - I-- you have to visualize,
- like, you have to see it. - [Meri] I know I need to.
- There's just so much-- - We'll just take garbage bags
and we'll just start throwing crap in.
- Oh, that'll be fun. - And then, it'll be fine.
Even when it's cleaned out,
it probably won't fit in here very well.
[chuckles] I'm gonna have to do some...
changing for sure.
'Cause there's even stuff out there too, like,
there's-there's a lot of stuff that's gonna have to be moved for that to...
- be the space you want it to be. - Turn into the clothing--
- Okay, let's go look at that. - Okay.
[Meri] I'm not looking forward to going and looking at it because...
I know what needs to be done,
and it's very overwhelming
and it just a big, like, a hot mess.
Like, it is... [chuckles] such a mess, there's...
so much that's gonna have to be done to this
to make it workable for my business.
- [Kody] Hi. - [Janelle] Hi.
- [Kody] How's it going? - [Janelle] Good.
Long time no see.
- Yeah. - Are you gonna give me a hug?
I have not really missed Kody, I'm not pining for him.
Didn't go really good last time we talked. [laughs]
Nope.
That's an understatement.
[Janelle] I have an appointment to meet with Kody.
I have not seen him since he blew up
and walked out of my apartment right before Christmas.
I have not really missed Kody,
I mean, I missed him but I didn't really "miss" him.
I'm not pining for him.
About six weeks ago, before Christmas,
Janelle and I had a major blow-up fight.
We haven't seen each other since.
- Thank you. - [man] No problem.
[Kody] So, we're gonna meet for lunch
and, sort of, talk it out, I guess.
- [man] At this table. - Thank you.
- [Kody] Hi. - [Janelle] Hi.
- [Kody] How's it going? - [Janelle] Good.
Long time no see.
- Yeah. - Are you gonna give me a hug?
[both chuckle]
- [Kody] How are ya? - Good.
[Kody clears throat]
Ooh, cold water.
- Where's the waiter? - It's okay, he'll be back in a minute.
Yeah.
So...
- How are ya? - Good.
[chuckles] Are you good?
[Janelle] Yeah, I mean, everything's okay.
- Okay. - So...
I...
- I mean-- Yeah. - Now...
Didn't go really good last time we talked. [laughs]
Nope.
That's an understatement.
Well...
I'm sorry.
Well, we both did our fair share of screaming.
- Like-- - Well I'm-I'm embarrassed by my behavior,
but I'm also realizing that, uh...
Um...
You don't have a safe place to--
a safe way to talk to me.
The-- It's a little bit of a blur,
the last conversation, 'cause I was so shocked.
So, he came in-- he was kinda angry when he came in,
he sort of had that chip on his shoulder.
Hey.
It's winter out there.
[Janelle] And all I was gonna do
was just establish that we're doing Christmas separately.
And the boys were asking
if you thought that-- you've thought that you would come over,
- and I said it wasn't optimistic. - No--
No, I'm not coming over.
It's like, I have a house, I have a place where we would have Christmas.
And he just lost it.
- You act like this is not your fault. - Do you want this relationship
- between you and I to work? - I don't know, do you?
Because when you say "choose your loyalties,
choose between me and your children."
Now you are literally gaslighting.
- I am not. - I was only asking
- everybody to obey the rules of our home. - I--
I-I felt just...
Like I had just endured two years of betrayal from Janelle.
I triggered so badly.
I was just so angry.
[both] No.
- [Janelle] You stay and talk. - I'm done listening to you.
- [Janelle] You stay and talk. - I-- No.
I'm not going to,
- 'cause you're not listening. - You're not listening to me.
And I'm not going to.
- [Janelle] Okay, so, we're done? - Goodbye.
[bleep] you!
[door slams]
It was ugly.
And it was sad.
I mean, this divorce is affecting me
in every way.
It's affecting all my relationships.
I realizing that I am...
I am morphing,
or transmuting grief into anger.
And, um, I realize that I'm just--
I'm just not a safe place for you to have a conversation.
So, um--
just, one trigger after another, just set me off.
"Well, my relationship with you is crap
because I'm so angry about this divorce."
Well, be a man,
separate your relationships like you have for our entire plural marriage,
and pay attention here.
Hmm.
I-- I do think that I wanna stay separated for now.
Really? You wanna stay separated?
Yeah, I do.
Uh, I'm-- I'm sort of surprised
that she doesn't want to try and reconcile,
that she wants to be separated.
We've been separated probably two or three times in the past.
I always felt like that was because she couldn't manage
the relationship with her sister wives.
I never felt like that was over me
but maybe I was wrong.
[Janelle] I'm really, really willing to do some counselling
if we can find somebody.
I think that's more fair, Christine just dropped this on me.
I just know that I need to be separate right now, you know.
Okay.
[Janelle] I mean, I still have a lot of affection for you.
Yeah, maybe some counselling is a good idea.
I...
Other than just that experience
where I'm blowing up over
really just, I guess, rejection,
you guys are doing Christmas without me, it's, uh...
- It's a-- - You know Christine and I
didn't do Christmas together, right?
We did it separate
and she came after.
But it was still a Christmas celebration, the whole--
Basically, the family getting together.
Well, I mean, this is where I think
we need to be really tread carefully
until we can have a third party. I mean, Kody, I--
- I didn't know-- - I'm not gonna get angry anymore, Janelle. I'm--
[Janelle] I didn't know what to do about my boys.
That's really what's the makeup--
All we have to do is have a conversation with them.
And I-- I don't wanna do this, this is really the point.
I don't want it to be in a place
where we're just acting like nothing has happened.
I think in some ways, that's what was happening with Christine and I.
When I would have conversations with her about our relationship,
it-- it was too uncomfortable for her.
She didn't like having those conversations, and yet,
she left
with me sort of holding the bag
never knowing that she was going to leave.
She was making plans of leaving,
having a discussion with people about leaving,
telling the kids, the adult kids.
You told me she had told you she was planning on leaving.
And then-- And then when she leaves,
I'm like, "She never told me."
So when Kody talks about Christine and him
splitting up, it always shocks me
that he purports that he never saw this coming.
He's been telling me for years
that he wasn't attracted to Christine,
they were struggling in their marriage.
I would have left his ass the first time he said that to me.
I would have.
I'm not going to be angry with you anymore, okay?
I'm just... So you know, if you wanna do a separation,
I understand but I'm not gonna be angry anymore.
If I get angry, I'm gonna leave.
I'm not gonna be accusatory.
I realize that I'm morphing this grief.
[Janelle] You know, for the last month or so,
I've oscillated between, "I never ever wanna see you again,"
to, you know, I just...
So I gotta figure it out.
I do not know how to reconcile with you
unless my kids can all be... Kody,
- you didn't-- you haven't... - I'm not, I'm not making any--
...even talked to Savanah in six weeks.
Like, you didn't even call her at Christmas or anything.
Like, nothing.
Well, sh-- Everybody...
I...
When Janelle and Christine kicked me out of the house,
and then when Christine leaves,
they separate me from the environment
that I know my children in.
I'm just struggling to survive all the heartbreak here
while they sit here and play Mean Girls together.
So Janelle's not in love with me.
I think she thinks I'm hot.
I got nice pecs and a great six-pack abs,
but that's all she's interested in.
I'm like, "Whoa, buddy, you're way missing the boat here."
There's way more to a marriage
than just physical attraction. And I feel like
we're in big danger here.
I've been doing a lot of business. [stutters] And when I'm doing business,
a lot of times, it's happening in the evening. So I haven't been
around to-- to do stuff with her after school.
I don't know. So maybe there's a lot to unwind here.
Almost all my interaction with Robyn's children
are because I'm with Robyn and interacting with her children.
So j-- I have to make a plan with Savanah
and interact with her without Janelle.
If I was at home with Janelle
interacting with Janelle and Savanah,
this would be every two nights.
I'd be two nights at Robyn's and two nights at Janelle's
and two nights at Robyn and two nights at Janelle.
But Janelle's just made that, um, clear that that's not gonna be happening.
Well, Covid's one of those things that
- would affect-- - No, it's not about Covid, Kody. It's about
only seeing one person's perspective.
I mean, that's what I felt like.
I mean, you-- you're like my boys have to apologize to Robyn.
I know one of the issues between Janelle and Kody
is this idea that Kody is asking for an apology from the boys.
I never asked for one, I never wanted one,
and I did not know that he was asking for one for me.
And I'm not actually happy that he was doing that.
Garrison
called her up.
- Okay, I know. Listen, I-- - [Kody] No,
there's a reason for that.
- [Janelle] Yeah, but-- - Calls her up
and accuses her of the one doing all this Covid stuff.
That's, like, really weird to transmute that much stuff
on to somebody that was only being compliant with what I was
saying we needed to do in order to protect our family.
Okay, I'm not even-- I'm not--
It's not about Covid.
Tit for tat Covid, it's over, whatever.
Like, it's really just about feeling like
you're a father to all and a husband to all.
Uh, but I'm not respected by all?
I mean, I don't know, Kody.
I just-- I do not know how we come back from this.
I mean, do you really wanna still have a plural family?
Sometimes I can't tell.
- [Jenn exclaims] - [Meri] Holy Hannah.
It's fun to have dragon breath though, you know, like really--
[Jenn] I should've brought, like, my...
- winter boots. - [Meri chuckles]
Well, when you're here more often, you'll have them.
So this building, we call it the Carriage House.
And it is where I'm going to be
putting my clothing business in.
It's a huge project and I'm slightly overwhelmed.
[both sigh]
[laughing] Oh, I don't know if this is gonna happen.
[Meri] I feel defeated.
Okay, you know how you love totes?
Let's just put all this stuff in different totes and, like, mark them.
Just the whole thing in totes?
They have big totes.
So one of the things that Mom and I have always talked about
doing here is, like, events.
We've had a couple of weddings here.
So, like, when we have those kinds of events,
we need to have lots of chairs.
I want to use the space for the clothing business
so I don't know what to do with it all.
You want a storage unit next to mine?
- Like, for the event stuff? - Oh, why don't we just... Oh.
- Duh. - [Jenn] Seriously.
Good idea. Let's just move it,
then we can shut that and lock that door
and I don't have to look at it or think about it.
- [shrieks] - Garbage.
I'm honestly in just this really weird situation.
I don't really have much of a reason
to be in Flagstaff
except for the fact that I'd really like to heal my marriage.
I mean, basically, it's Robyn and her kids
that I see and have a relationship with.
I enjoy being at the B&B.
Two-car garage here.
Commercial kitchen attached behind it.
There's some things that I want to do here as far as, like, food
that I need to have
the commercial kitchen for.
I feel like if I end up doing
something more along the lines of events,
it's gonna be better business-wise for me.
If you're gonna have weddings or anything that has to be catered,
whether it's our caterer or someone they bring in,
- it's a separate kitchen. - It'll be so much nicer to have.
- I like that a lot. - A bigger space there.
Our families tried to do different businesses throughout the years.
Kind of our downfall with some of the businesses
is the fact that there wasn't a person in charge.
Like when we were doing My Sisterwife's Closet,
Robyn should've been in charge.
I think in plural marriage, it can get complicated.
But I specifically wanted to work with my sister wives
on My Sisterwife's Closet 'cause I wanted that kind of
group experience that they experienced
raising their kids together.
And so I was trying to sort of pull them in for that.
[Christine] In polygamy, most decisions, I think,
are made by kind of committee.
And that's good and bad, that's both
because committees have a tendency to not get a lot of stuff done.
But I think it's necessary and I think it's super important
in a plural marriage to have a committee
rather than one person calling all the shots.
Are you gonna repave the driveway and can we heat it?
- Because then I don't have to shovel. - [both laugh]
[Meri] Lazy butt.
I mean, do you really wanna still have a plural family?
Sometimes I can't tell.
You know, I've carried this burden.
Our entire marriage, everybody else had a tolerance for...
for not being together.
I felt like Atlas and the world's on my shoulder
and I just shrugged it off. Nobody else picked it up.
I've always worked hard for plural marriage.
And just because we got here and I got a little bit cynical,
doesn't mean that I don't want plural marriage anymore.
But what has Janelle done to help it?
Janelle hasn't been living plural marriage.
She's been living independence from a husband
that's there when she wants him
and has resources that she gets.
It feels like it's easy for you to be at Robyn's house,
and that you don't wanna be anyone-- anywhere else.
But I was always at your house too.
- I was always at your house. - [Janelle] Yeah. No, I'm just--
- I guess I just-- - [Kody] And I was always at Chris-- Listen.
- We don't have-- - [Kody] Janelle.
- Yeah. - You're going off of a recency by us with Covid.
[chuckling] Well, then you need to stop referencing
what happened during Covid too.
I mean, I just see I'm-- I'm getting close to the line now
and he's starting to get agitated
'cause the way I see things is very different
than the way he sees things.
This all came about 'cause I felt like
I wasn't being supported in what I was doing
for the whole family. Does that make more sense?
But you know I think we all had children
at different stages and it was-- You couldn't--
You couldn't accommodate.
Well, I-- I feel the obligation a little deeper
to the littlest ones because of the...
of their needs.
I felt like that's all you saw were the little children
and you stopped seeing your other children.
- Um... - [Janelle] You became so hyper focused
on the needs of little kids,
you stopped seeing the other kids' needs.
Kody has always made it a point
to be part of his kids' lives,
especially when they're younger.
I think it's easier for him to forget that
he should still nurture relationships with his adult children as well.
Listen, I didn't overreact
to what was going on with Gabe and Garrison.
But I think
I went too extreme on how I felt.
And in the end, it should've been
just like, "We need to have a conversation,"
not that "You guys owe me an apology."
You know, and anybody who is adult and making their own choices
had to make their choices. They're free to do that
but I had to be able to protect the babies.
I wish Solomon and Ariella had the same value
to the whole family that they see other people.
See, I think those kind of statements are dangerous,
Kody, because you assume a lot there.
"I wish that everybody valued Sol and Ari the way that..."
Like, so that I feel like there's a lot of assumption and judgement there.
So that's the kind of place where we need a counsellor.
I mean, it doesn't matter as much now
but at the time, I felt like I was being gaslit,
manipulated and lied to.
Well, I think she's pointing her finger at, like,
some kind of favoritism towards Solomon and Ariella,
which is the same favoritism I always gave to any of the little kids,
starting from Logan all the way through.
When they're little, I give them a lot.
When they're adults, I still give them a lot
but I don't feel like my obligation is the same to them.
You know, okay.
We're just gonna go the rounds again here. I think--
But you never validated my position,
- the position that I was... - [Janelle] And you're not listening...
- [laughs] ...to me either. - ...forced into like this experience.
See, I-- Anyway.
[Kody] I am listening to you, Janelle,
because what you're trying to do is you're trying to lay it...
- No, I'm just-- - ...on an idea that
I didn't want to be around you and that's not true at all.
No, I just asked you if you still want to live plural marriage.
'Cause I'm not sure.
I'm not really inclined to stay in this relationship with Kody.
I don't feel like I'm getting what I deserve from him.
Listen, I'm pretty independent.
I don't need a lot from him
but when it comes down to where he all of a sudden
doesn't wanna be a father to my kids
because they disagree with him,
that sort of changes the cost benefit equation
for me in this marriage.
[Kody] I have always wanted to be a father to my children.
It was my sole goal in life.
If you're only concerned about how I am at your place,
then you're a monogamist.
So stop trying to act like I did something wrong for 20 years.
You know what? It's true. I've been in a place where I don't feel like
without being in plural marriage, we can be married.
So it's like, "Okay, well, then we gotta figure out plural monogamy."
'Cause we're not living plural marriage.
We don't wanna be in one home.
We don't have the function to do that.
Plural monogamy is where you're not functioning as one family,
you're multiple families. A husband with two families.
So she's not interested in reconciling with Meri,
and I understand 'cause I'm not sure Meri and I can reconcile.
But she's not interested in a relationship with Robyn at all.
So it'd be me at Robyn's house,
and then me at Janelle's house.
And these two families don't interact,
that's plural monogamy.
Kody's the one who actually brought up the word
and the term 'plural monogamy'
and he acts like it was my idea.
I mean, honestly, for the last six weeks,
I wasn't really sure I was gonna even stay.
Hmm.
Here's what I will say. I'm not leaving,
I'm not throwing in the towel.
I just need to be separate while we figure this out.
Can you explain to me [stutters] what's the value of the separation?
[Janelle] 'Cause I feel like
I'm more aware of what I need when you're not there.
You're there and I wanna just, like, forget everything
and just be, like, just--
I'll lay back, I--
[Janelle] I know, but it's easier for me to have focus
on what I need and and when I need to communicate to you.
[Kody] I don't get it.
The punishment seems way beyond the crime.
Maybe that's just a wakeup call for me.
Maybe she's not interested in this at all.
Maybe she's
got what she needed and she's moving on.
We need a redefinition.
I still am not 100% sure we can save it.
- Really? - [Janelle] No.
You don't think it's just gonna be...
- [Janelle] No, because sometimes... - Like--
...I'm really angry still. [chuckles] Like...
I don't know.
I-- I don't really have any kind of estate or anything, Kody.
I don't have anything in my name.
I have the properties all mishmashed.
Yeah, but you've got all that property is...
I know but I mean, I just don't, I don't really have...
Uh, you know, I mean, like, I...
I don't know, there's a lot to unpack.
We have to pay off the property, like, he sits here--
He moved heaven and earth to get this house for Robyn.
They-- they kept all their crap in U-Hauls for months.
They lived in it as a short-term rental before they even bought it.
I'm sitting here, like, "Wow, I am stuck. I am stagnant."
Janelle has the same assets as me.
Robyn's house isn't an asset, it's a bank's asset.
We have to house our children in that house for another 15 years.
I am not stopping us from doing that, okay?
- Okay, I'm just saying... - [Kody] That's-- I'm not--
...I don't really, 'cause, like, when you first left, I thought, "Crap.
I don't have anything. I don't have anything in my name."
I don't have anything.
[Kody] This sounds like it's about money for Janelle.
It's like, "Have I always just been a resource for you?"
I am completely vulnerable. If I decide to leave Kody, I have nothing.
If I can't provide everything, I-- I'm not of value?
[laughing] Oh, hell.
It's wild, it is wild, the disconnect here.
[Kody] I feel like we did a lot of work in Las Vegas.
And for whatever reason, the only progress we made
was Christine's exit, and that's not how I view progress.
In other words, she just finally decided what she wanted.
Kinda...
And here we are.
Christine's getting closer and closer to the edge.
I'm hearing rumors, I ask her about it
She's like, "I'm not threatening to leave you."
I don't know if that's because--
Yeah, I don't-- I don't know how to be involved in that particular
relationship, do you know what I mean? I understand--
Well, am I supposed to bottle it up and not talk about it?
[Janelle] No, I'm just saying, like,
- yes, I mean, I want you to talk about-- - [Kody] She's gonna go.
She's gonna find somebody she's dating
and she's gonna vomit all over about her divorce.
- About her marriage. - [Janelle] Okay, and I'm not trying to shut you down.
- I don't know how... - [Kody] To talk about it might be just
counter-productive, I guess.
I just don't wanna start this conversation up yet again
for the umpteenth time in our conversation.
Be a big boy and reconcile.
You've been bitching about that for six months now.
Get over it and reconcile it and move on.
Janelle, come on. I mean, you weren't having
a great experience in Las Vegas?
- No, I mean, Kody, I still-- - I mean, I need to know because...
- [Janelle] No, I-- - And that's so much unwound for me
how much, I thought we were like--
I'm sitting there, this smiling idiot,
and it turns out later that it's like,
"No, that was a [bleep] experience."
- I'm like, "All right, then tell me." - [Janelle] Oh, no.
No, I thought we had some good years in Vegas, for sure.
- I was sprouting poetry! - [Janelle] I know.
- So that's, Kody-- - I was following you around.
- I was like, we were-- - I know, I know.
Well, he's like, "We had this really great time in Vegas for a couple of years."
Yeah, but that doesn't mean, it's...
That it somehow excuses this right now.
Janelle denies this
but I had a renaissance with Janelle in Las Vegas.
I mean, I miss you, honey. I miss you.
And I just don't know how to fix this or figure this out
but I don't wanna just...
'Cause you and I have a tendency to be like, you come back
and we sort of just forget all the hard stuff and we just...
- We sweep it under the carpet. - ...it's in our little place. I...
I need something different, you know, this time.
[Kody] Well, I agree.
We need to be conscious about our relationship
and how we're working it out and what we're doing.
It was just easier 'cause you and I, our conversation is amazing.
I miss all our conversation.
I don't know, maybe we weren't taking enough care of our relationship.
Our actual marriage relationship.
I do miss Kody.
We are very best friends, we have a lot of conversations.
I miss him in my bed, I miss him in my house, I miss him.
But I'm not being treated the way I deserve to be treated here.
Well, this went much better than I thought. I was sort of--
- What'd you think that was gonna happen? - [Janelle] I don't know.
- I don't know. - You didn't think that I missed you?
[laughing] Well, no, 'cause...
You didn't think I want to kiss you on the lips and see you again?
[chuckles]
Here's the thing, you and I can be simple.
It's everything else
that is complicated.
It's like, yes, on a basic level, we are simple.
If there was nothing going on but he and I,
and we're on some sort of desert island,
we would be great.
Let me tell you, we would be great.
But no, life is not that.
I mean, this whole thing with Christine is, that's very, very complicated.
You and I are married. You and I are gonna work this out.
That's not going to matter, there'll be a safe place here.
It is the weirdest thing in the world, you have to understand.
To be getting divorced from one wife
while you're having a relationship
- with another wife. - I can imagine it's a conflict, yeah.
- For sure. - It's weird.
Well, it went better than Janelle expected.
I kinda thought that we would reconcile right here.
And she's like, "No, I'm... I'm enjoying my independence,
this freedom too much so I wanna stay separated."
More in my mind, it went well
because I'm deeply committed to never triggering again or becoming angry.
If I see those triggers coming, then I'm gonna stop.
[Janelle] I don't know. I told him we need a counsellor,
we need a counsellor.
Here's the thing. If he wanted it,
I might, maybe, maybe I would try to work on it.
But if he doesn't want it, I'm not gonna sit here
and put all the effort into trying to create this
because I-- I think there's something better for me.
[Kody] Next time on Sister Wives...
If Kody changed,
would you ever wanna form marriage with him again?
Yes, but I think it's unrealistic.
[Kody] Janelle keeps telling me she doesn't enjoy our time together.
But I don't wanna break up.
[Christine] I think he just likes to string people along.
He's exhausting.
Meri, he talks about us all owning the property still.
There's no question, Robyn. He's done with me.
Please, figure it out with us here.
I'm growing and I need something different.
What do you mean "something different"?
Like, I don't wanna be married anymore.