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Narrator:
A housewife
who convinced millions
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to share their sightings.
3
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Linda moulton howe:
Coral lorenzen
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is one of the earliest
people who said
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there is something serious
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about these objects in the sky.
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Narrator:
A scientist who uncovered
shocking new evidence
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about a crashed ufo.
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00:00:19,353 --> 00:00:21,645
Richard dolan:
Stanton friedman,
more than any one other person,
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00:00:21,731 --> 00:00:24,023
opened up roswell
for the rest of the world.
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Narrator:
An astronomer
who documented close encounters
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for the u.S. Military.
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Paul hynek:
My father really was convinced
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that there was just something
that was too legitimate
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to ignore.
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Narrator:
Ancient astronaut theorist
giorgio tsoukalos,
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author david childress,
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and former british ministry
of defence
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officer nick pope,
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have come together to examine
the groundbreaking work
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of pioneering researchers,
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investigators,
and whistleblowers
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who dared to challenge
the scientific establishment
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and changed the world.
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Pope:
Without jacques vallée,
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we probably wouldn't be
having this discussion.
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Narrator:
But does the final chapter
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of their story
remain to be written?
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Will it soon be revealed,
once and for all,
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that earth is being visited
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by extraterrestrials?
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You have to wonder
where does this all lead
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and will we soon
come closer to the truth?
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♪ ♪
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narrator:
There is a doorway
in the universe...
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...Beyond it
is the promise of truth.
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It demands
we question everything
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we have ever been taught.
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The evidence is all around us.
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The future is
right before our eyes.
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We are not alone.
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We have never been alone.
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I'm excited to be here
with you guys
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talking about
the modern ufo phenomenon.
45
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The paradigm
has certainly shifted
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because 20 years ago
it was always deny, deny, deny.
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So, you know, I think that
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we are living
in incredibly exciting times.
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We are. Absolutely.
And this, of course,
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is part of a wider
interconnected story.
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Revelation after revelation
from the government itself.
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I also would
offer that ancient aliens
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has contributed
to this paradigm shift
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where people
are now comfortable
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in telling their stories,
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their experiences
that they've had.
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The so-called zeitgeist
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has changed in our favor.
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And I really think
that with whatever is going on
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in the modern ufo phenomenon
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is directly
connected to ancient times.
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Well, the ufo phenomenon
has been going on
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for thousands of years
with historical texts
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talking about ufos.
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Even in the middle ages
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you find stories
that were printed
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in what they
used to call broad sheets
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of ufos, like, for example,
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in nuremberg or in basel.
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And they actually
have reproductions
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of what they saw
up in the skies.
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Clearly, they did not have
photographs back then
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but they had drawings.
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And the way these things
are being reported today
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is because
we have the technology.
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♪ ♪
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narrator:
People have reported
strange sightings in the sky
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since the earliest
recorded history.
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For thousands of years,
such encounters
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were conveyed
through oral traditions,
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texts and artwork.
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But then, in 1839,
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french artist louis daguerre
provided humankind
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with a powerful new technology:
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The daguerreotype.
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It was the first publicly
available photographic process,
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and suddenly
people were able to share
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the exact images
they saw with their own eyes.
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Just three decades later,
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the world got its first
alleged ufo photo.
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The very first photo
that we have of a ufo
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is of a-a huge
cylindrical craft
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over mount washington
in new hampshire taken in 1870
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right at the very
beginning of photography.
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Dolan: You see this cloud
formation up at mount washington
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and you see this very
obvious cigar-shaped object.
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Of course, many ufo reports
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described cigar-shaped objects.
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Is the photograph authentic?
And turns out it is.
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Narrator:
As technology
evolved over the late 1800s
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and early 1900s,
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so did humankind's understanding
of many long-held assumptions.
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Instead of linking
strange events in the sky
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with the divine,
a few inquisitive minds
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proposed a profound
new explanation.
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That intelligent beings
from other planets,
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who possess technology
far beyond our own,
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were visiting our world.
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One of the first
to investigate this possibility
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was an american
writer and researcher
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named charles fort.
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Mitch horowitz:
People have written about
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strange lights
in the sky before.
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But fort was probably
the first person in modern life
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who assembled the stories
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into his books
in a systematic way.
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Fort saw it as his job to poke
holes in the straight story
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of science as it was
developing at that time,
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and it demonstrated
that there was a whole world
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of strange unexplained
persistent phenomena.
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Narrator:
In 1919, fort published
his landmark collection
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of anomalous incidents
and strange sightings.
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He called it
the book of the damned.
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Dolan:
Now what he meant by that
is all of the data
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that he incorporated and
put into that book was damned
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by the scientific
world of-of his time.
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That's the whole point. This was
data that no one would look at.
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Narrator:
Today the term "fortean"
continues to be used
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to describe events
that cannot be explained
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by conventional science.
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But it would take
25 years and a world war
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for researchers to examine
fort's accounts more closely.
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So a lot of the modern
ufo phenomenon really started
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during the second world war.
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We had a couple of-of things,
aspects to this.
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The battle of los angeles--
an amazing event
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where upwards of 1,400, uh,
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anti-aircraft shells
were fired into the air
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at something that had been
hovering over los angeles.
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And there's a photo as well.
There's a classic photo...
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-Childress: It was on the front
page of the l.A. Times.
-Pope: Yeah.
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Then you have
these pilots who see
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strange balls of light
called foo fighters,
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and I couldn't talk about ufos
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without, of course,
mentioning one word:
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-Roswell.
-Mm-hmm.
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Pope:
The military
issues a press release
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which says we've recovered
a flying disc.
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So you have these events
coming thick and fast,
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but who's collating it all?
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We should never forget
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that, uh,
maybe we have it easy now.
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We have this vast body of work
that we can build on,
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and one of the great pioneers
of this subject,
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who did so much to bring it
into the mainstream,
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was coral lorenzen.
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Narrator:
By the 1950s,
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thousands of ufo sightings
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were being reported
around the country.
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But while most
dismissed these accounts
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as little more than curiosity,
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one woman in arizona
took them seriously:
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A 35-year-old housewife
named coral lorenzen.
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When coral lorenzen
was nine years old,
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she had her first ufo sighting
in a playground
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with two friends.
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She stated that
the craft reminded her
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of a parachute without strings.
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After her experiences,
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what she wanted to do
was kind of nail this down
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on a scientific basis
not just woo-woo stuff.
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Narrator:
Working out of their home,
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coral and
her husband jim founded
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the aerial phenomenon
research organization, or apro,
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the world's first
public investigation of ufos.
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Using little more
than her wits and a telephone,
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coral collected thousands
of unpublished reports
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from witnesses
around the country.
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To rule out planes
and unusual weather
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as the cause
of the sightings,
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coral judiciously
cross-referenced these accounts
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by contacting local airfields
and military bases.
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Bill birnes:
What she was able to do was
show there were commonalities
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among ufo sightings,
there were things that ufos did
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and that observers saw
that stretched across
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different cultures and different
parts of the united states.
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Narrator:
Eventually, coral's organization
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grew to have
thousands of members
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and collected reports
from around the world.
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Marden:
The organization
started out small,
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but as its reputation grew,
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she was able to attract
many scientists
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and also people
in the air force
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from other countries.
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Narrator:
Considered one of the
best civilian research groups
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of its time,
coral lorenzen oversaw
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the aerial phenomena
research organization
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for more than three decades
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until her death in 1988.
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She set up this group
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with thousands of members,
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and she was really
pulling all this together.
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They had representatives
in different states in the u.S.,
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in different countries, too.
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Of course,
apro as a group,
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uh, wound up in 1988,
I think it was,
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but, of course, mufon--
the mutual ufo network--
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is a spinoff of apro.
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So she was really cataloging
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a wide variety
of ufo activity
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all over the world.
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What was
the reaction back then
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when she would call
the air force bases?
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Would they readily talk to her
or would they stonewall her?
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She hit some brick walls,
and people were probably saying
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in the military,
"who the heck is this?"
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but she was tenacious.
She was-- look.
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Here's this woman
blazing this trail.
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Starting almost
this whole field of study
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which-which
we now see today.
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Nick, can you tell us
about your work
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00:11:06,625 --> 00:11:07,582
at the british
ministry of defence?
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Sure. I worked there
for 21 years.
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And from
1991 through to 1994,
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I ran their
small ufo program.
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My job was to research
and investigate the phenomenon,
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to determine whether
there was anything
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of any defense significance,
uh, any threat,
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anything of more general
scientific interest.
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Were you the first person
to have that position
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or was there
somebody before you?
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Oh, many,
many people before me.
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Uh, we-we had been
looking at this,
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um, on an ad hoc basis
since the second world war,
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and what were some
of the challenges
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that you were faced with
in order to determine
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what was
a valid sighting?
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I mean, was there a certain
protocol to the work you did?
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Well, there were
many challenges,
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but the-the protocols
241
00:12:01,888 --> 00:12:03,972
were actually quite set.
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We had
a standard methodology
243
00:12:06,017 --> 00:12:10,395
very closely modeled
on the united states
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00:12:10,439 --> 00:12:12,814
methodologies developed,
in part,
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by dr. J. Allen hynek.
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Narrator:
In 1948, dr. J. Allen hynek
247
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was working as the professor
of physics and astronomy
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at ohio state university
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00:12:25,078 --> 00:12:27,620
when he received
an unusual job offer.
250
00:12:27,706 --> 00:12:30,331
The u.S. Air force
approached him
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00:12:30,417 --> 00:12:33,752
to investigate ufo sightings.
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Reluctantly,
he joined the special operation
253
00:12:36,757 --> 00:12:39,841
which would become known as
project blue book.
254
00:12:41,136 --> 00:12:43,887
At the beginning, I think my
father thought this would be
255
00:12:43,972 --> 00:12:45,889
a few weekends'
worth of work
256
00:12:45,974 --> 00:12:48,683
just to pooh-pooh
some flying saucer reports
257
00:12:48,769 --> 00:12:52,103
from, you know,
mrs. Jones out in poughkeepsie.
258
00:12:54,065 --> 00:12:56,024
Narrator:
Despite his skepticism,
259
00:12:56,109 --> 00:12:59,903
dr. Hynek approached the
assignment with an open mind.
260
00:12:59,988 --> 00:13:01,905
As part of
his investigations,
261
00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:05,867
he pioneered new ways
of studying aerial phenomena.
262
00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:08,661
Rather than
combing through reports,
263
00:13:08,747 --> 00:13:11,498
dr. Hynek personally
investigated sightings
264
00:13:11,583 --> 00:13:14,793
and interviewed eyewitnesses
across the country.
265
00:13:16,129 --> 00:13:18,671
Based on his research,
he developed a new system
266
00:13:18,757 --> 00:13:21,341
to categorize ufo sightings.
267
00:13:21,426 --> 00:13:23,843
He came up with
a classification system
268
00:13:23,929 --> 00:13:28,056
of close encounters of the
first, second and third kind.
269
00:13:29,059 --> 00:13:31,893
A close encounter
of the first kind
270
00:13:31,978 --> 00:13:35,104
is when you see an object
within, say, 500 feet.
271
00:13:36,107 --> 00:13:38,358
A close encounter
of the second kind
272
00:13:38,443 --> 00:13:40,610
is when there's some kind
of physical trace,
273
00:13:40,695 --> 00:13:42,862
maybe some irradiated dirt.
274
00:13:42,948 --> 00:13:44,739
A close encounter
of the third kind
275
00:13:44,825 --> 00:13:47,367
is where you
actually have contact
276
00:13:47,452 --> 00:13:49,828
with some type of entity.
277
00:13:52,707 --> 00:13:55,041
Narrator:
Dr. Hynek's
meticulous application
278
00:13:55,126 --> 00:13:57,919
of the scientific method
in his investigations
279
00:13:58,004 --> 00:14:01,089
enabled him to dismiss
many alleged sightings
280
00:14:01,174 --> 00:14:05,051
as aircraft,
meteors or even stars.
281
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,556
But, curiously, of the more
than 12,000 ufo sightings
282
00:14:09,641 --> 00:14:12,100
dr. Hynek's
office investigated,
283
00:14:12,185 --> 00:14:16,813
701 remained categorized
as "unidentified."
284
00:14:17,858 --> 00:14:20,692
hynek:
What my father
was fascinated by
285
00:14:20,777 --> 00:14:23,528
were this irreducible core
286
00:14:23,572 --> 00:14:27,448
of five percent of cases
that could not be explained.
287
00:14:27,534 --> 00:14:29,576
There was
just something that was
288
00:14:29,661 --> 00:14:32,787
too legitimate to ignore.
289
00:14:33,832 --> 00:14:37,834
For many, many years,
hynek really just
290
00:14:37,878 --> 00:14:41,880
played the air force's
party line on ufos.
291
00:14:41,965 --> 00:14:45,592
But, finally, as you're really
getting into the 1960s,
292
00:14:45,677 --> 00:14:47,802
1966 and '67,
293
00:14:47,888 --> 00:14:50,555
hynek makes
his public position clear
294
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,891
that this
is a serious phenomenon.
295
00:14:52,976 --> 00:14:56,769
Hynek:
That set up a really difficult
tension because the air force
296
00:14:56,855 --> 00:14:59,606
was getting more sort of
stonewalling in their attitude,
297
00:14:59,691 --> 00:15:02,609
and my father really
was convinced that there was
298
00:15:02,694 --> 00:15:05,236
a phenomena, but really
wanted the word to get out.
299
00:15:06,948 --> 00:15:10,074
Narrator:
But rather than expand
the investigation,
300
00:15:10,118 --> 00:15:14,579
in 1969, the air force
abruptly shut down
301
00:15:14,664 --> 00:15:16,664
project blue book.
302
00:15:17,667 --> 00:15:19,125
In the years that followed,
303
00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:23,046
hynek became an outspoken
supporter of ufo research,
304
00:15:23,131 --> 00:15:25,840
publishing numerous
books on the subject
305
00:15:25,926 --> 00:15:29,594
until his death in 1986.
306
00:15:29,638 --> 00:15:33,848
Hynek became
increasingly disillusioned
307
00:15:33,934 --> 00:15:36,517
with the air force
policy on this,
308
00:15:36,603 --> 00:15:39,062
and, yes,
he was frustrated.
309
00:15:39,147 --> 00:15:42,565
These people have no interest
in going public
310
00:15:42,651 --> 00:15:44,859
-and saying there might
be extraterrestrials.
-Childress: Right.
311
00:15:44,945 --> 00:15:47,487
And he's privy,
as you were,
312
00:15:47,572 --> 00:15:49,197
to classified documents
313
00:15:49,282 --> 00:15:51,157
and, you know, you have
to have a security clearance.
314
00:15:51,242 --> 00:15:52,992
He must have had that, too.
315
00:15:53,078 --> 00:15:55,703
So there were things
that he could not talk about.
316
00:15:55,789 --> 00:15:57,747
-Wouldn't you think?
-I'm sure that's the case.
317
00:15:57,832 --> 00:16:00,124
He was someone
on the inside,
318
00:16:00,210 --> 00:16:03,878
and he probably
had a deeper understanding
319
00:16:03,964 --> 00:16:05,630
of this phenomenon
320
00:16:05,674 --> 00:16:09,175
than almost anyone else
involved at the time.
321
00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:13,221
And, uh, jacques vallée is
another fascinating character,
322
00:16:13,306 --> 00:16:16,766
a colleague, of course,
of dr. J. Allen hynek
323
00:16:16,851 --> 00:16:20,603
and two of the early, uh,
giants in this field.
324
00:16:20,689 --> 00:16:24,065
Without jacques vallée,
dr. J. Allen hynek,
325
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:26,067
we probably wouldn't be
sitting around this table
326
00:16:26,152 --> 00:16:28,236
-having this discussion.
-Right.
327
00:16:28,321 --> 00:16:31,781
Jacques vallée
went back into folklore.
328
00:16:31,866 --> 00:16:34,701
He was one of the first
to see and certainly the first
329
00:16:34,786 --> 00:16:37,203
to popularize
that-that parallel
330
00:16:37,288 --> 00:16:39,956
between these
folkloric accounts
331
00:16:40,041 --> 00:16:41,916
and the more modern
accounts of ufos
332
00:16:42,002 --> 00:16:43,835
and, specifically,
alien abduction.
333
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,254
Half of my family
comes from austria
334
00:16:46,339 --> 00:16:49,716
and there are many
folkloric tales
335
00:16:49,801 --> 00:16:53,011
of fairy folk, where
a shepherd either disappears
336
00:16:53,054 --> 00:16:54,846
or a shepherd
goes to sleep
337
00:16:54,931 --> 00:16:56,973
and doesn't wake up
for a week
338
00:16:57,058 --> 00:16:58,933
even though, in his mind,
339
00:16:59,019 --> 00:17:01,102
only two hours
have elapsed.
340
00:17:01,187 --> 00:17:03,730
So I think
it's wonderful that vallée
341
00:17:03,815 --> 00:17:05,732
looked at those stories
342
00:17:05,817 --> 00:17:07,567
and put them
into the context
343
00:17:07,652 --> 00:17:10,945
of potential
extraterrestrial encounters.
344
00:17:13,867 --> 00:17:16,117
Jacques is probably
our greatest
345
00:17:16,202 --> 00:17:20,580
living scientist
and scholar of ufo studies.
346
00:17:20,665 --> 00:17:23,875
He wrote one of
the most influential books
347
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,127
that figures
into the ufo field,
348
00:17:26,212 --> 00:17:28,379
which is called
passport to magonia,
349
00:17:28,423 --> 00:17:32,175
where he ventured
the theory that folklore
350
00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:36,054
all throughout the ages,
matches up extraordinarily well
351
00:17:36,097 --> 00:17:38,139
with contemporary
ufo accounts.
352
00:17:39,225 --> 00:17:42,060
Narrator:
In 1961, dr. Jacques vallée
353
00:17:42,103 --> 00:17:45,313
was working as an astronomer
with the french space committee
354
00:17:45,398 --> 00:17:49,192
when he noticed a mysterious
object orbiting the earth.
355
00:17:51,237 --> 00:17:53,863
This event sparked
a lifelong-interest
356
00:17:53,907 --> 00:17:55,907
in the ufo phenomenon
357
00:17:55,992 --> 00:17:57,784
which he continues
to investigate
358
00:17:57,869 --> 00:18:01,037
more than six decades later.
359
00:18:01,122 --> 00:18:03,247
Vallée started
out in the mid-1960s,
360
00:18:03,333 --> 00:18:05,333
working closely
with allen hynek,
361
00:18:05,418 --> 00:18:09,045
doing what you might call
standard ufo analysis back then,
362
00:18:09,089 --> 00:18:11,172
looking at various sightings.
363
00:18:12,175 --> 00:18:13,883
Narrator:
While working with hynek,
364
00:18:13,968 --> 00:18:16,385
vallée boldly proposed
a profound new theory
365
00:18:16,429 --> 00:18:18,846
to explain ufo sightings
366
00:18:18,932 --> 00:18:21,682
and other
paranormal experiences.
367
00:18:21,768 --> 00:18:25,061
He argued that many ufos
seem to be manipulating
368
00:18:25,105 --> 00:18:26,896
the space-time continuum
369
00:18:26,981 --> 00:18:31,818
and suggested they may not have
come from another planet
370
00:18:31,903 --> 00:18:34,028
but from another dimension.
371
00:18:34,114 --> 00:18:37,824
Dr. Jacques vallée
was years ahead
372
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:39,659
of his time.
373
00:18:39,744 --> 00:18:42,954
When everyone else was looking
at the nuts and bolts
374
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:46,040
of ufos and their occupants,
375
00:18:46,126 --> 00:18:48,376
jacques vallée was interested
376
00:18:48,461 --> 00:18:51,671
in the interdimensional
phenomena
377
00:18:51,756 --> 00:18:54,257
related to ufo reports.
378
00:18:55,426 --> 00:18:59,804
Hynek:
Jacques really helped
the field accept the idea
379
00:18:59,889 --> 00:19:03,057
of truly exotic solutions.
380
00:19:03,143 --> 00:19:06,727
Once you really dig
into the ufo phenomena,
381
00:19:06,813 --> 00:19:09,814
it's very hard
to find one solution
382
00:19:09,899 --> 00:19:13,359
that fits all of the cases
that have been reported.
383
00:19:13,444 --> 00:19:16,028
J. Allen hynek,
jacques vallée,
384
00:19:16,114 --> 00:19:17,947
were pioneers in this field
385
00:19:18,032 --> 00:19:20,700
and, interesting piece
of film trivia,
386
00:19:20,785 --> 00:19:24,495
the classic sci-fi movie close
encounters of the third kind,
387
00:19:24,539 --> 00:19:27,290
it's an homage
to j. Allen hynek
388
00:19:27,333 --> 00:19:30,376
and spielberg gave him
389
00:19:30,461 --> 00:19:33,379
a little cameo in the movie.
390
00:19:33,464 --> 00:19:35,047
In that wonderful scene
391
00:19:35,133 --> 00:19:37,258
where the mothership
comes down at the end,
392
00:19:37,343 --> 00:19:39,135
he's the guy
with the pipe.
393
00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:41,053
Childress:
And, actually,
jacques vallée is depicted
394
00:19:41,139 --> 00:19:43,097
in that movie, too,
in a sense.
395
00:19:43,183 --> 00:19:46,142
Isn't he the-the french
ufo expert
396
00:19:46,227 --> 00:19:50,730
in the movie who then uses music
and tones to communicate
397
00:19:50,815 --> 00:19:53,024
-with the extraterrestrials?
-Pope: Yes, indeed.
398
00:19:53,067 --> 00:19:55,193
And a lot
of people don't know this,
399
00:19:55,236 --> 00:19:57,737
close encounters
of the third kind,
400
00:19:57,822 --> 00:19:59,947
it's based on the story
401
00:20:00,033 --> 00:20:02,533
of one of the great
pioneers in this field.
402
00:20:08,166 --> 00:20:11,042
Another pioneer in this field
was robert emenegger
403
00:20:11,085 --> 00:20:12,585
who wrote the book ufos: Past,
present & future.
404
00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:14,795
Well, there's a fascinating
story about him.
405
00:20:14,881 --> 00:20:17,798
He was basically promised
406
00:20:17,884 --> 00:20:20,635
that he would get film footage
407
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,346
of a ufo landing
at an air force base.
408
00:20:23,431 --> 00:20:24,597
Really?
409
00:20:25,767 --> 00:20:29,352
Narrator:
In 1972,
filmmaker robert emenegger
410
00:20:29,395 --> 00:20:32,688
was hired by president
richard nixon's chief of staff,
411
00:20:32,774 --> 00:20:36,525
h.R. Haldeman,
to produce a documentary film.
412
00:20:36,611 --> 00:20:38,903
The committee to re-elect
the president
413
00:20:38,988 --> 00:20:42,073
wanted to make
a scientific documentary
414
00:20:42,116 --> 00:20:45,201
that would support nixon.
415
00:20:46,204 --> 00:20:50,039
A documentary about
some secret project
416
00:20:50,124 --> 00:20:52,833
that the government's been
working on
417
00:20:52,919 --> 00:20:55,086
that can be declassified.
418
00:20:58,007 --> 00:21:00,925
Narrator:
But as soon as emenegger
started on the project,
419
00:21:01,010 --> 00:21:03,928
it took an unexpected turn.
420
00:21:04,013 --> 00:21:05,930
Holcombe:
Bob emenegger was asked,
421
00:21:05,974 --> 00:21:10,476
"how would you like to make
a documentary on ufos?"
422
00:21:10,561 --> 00:21:12,603
and bob emenegger was stunned.
423
00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:15,940
He told me at his home,
424
00:21:15,984 --> 00:21:19,860
"I didn't know anything
about ufos. I was shocked."
425
00:21:19,946 --> 00:21:22,947
they said if we would make
the documentary,
426
00:21:22,991 --> 00:21:24,865
we would be given
427
00:21:24,951 --> 00:21:27,785
600 feet
of 16-millimeter film
428
00:21:27,870 --> 00:21:29,996
shot at holloman
air force base
429
00:21:30,081 --> 00:21:32,456
of a ufo landing there.
430
00:21:32,542 --> 00:21:34,458
So emenegger agreed to do it.
431
00:21:36,713 --> 00:21:39,171
Narrator:
Emenegger set about
producing a documentary
432
00:21:39,257 --> 00:21:41,132
that would present the public
433
00:21:41,217 --> 00:21:43,926
with authentic footage of a ufo.
434
00:21:44,012 --> 00:21:46,679
But when it came time to receive
the sensational materials
435
00:21:46,764 --> 00:21:48,556
he'd been promised,
436
00:21:48,641 --> 00:21:50,725
the government
had a change of heart.
437
00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:53,144
Holcombe:
Their white house contact said,
438
00:21:53,229 --> 00:21:56,480
"bob, I hate to tell you,
but the film
439
00:21:56,566 --> 00:21:58,858
has been withdrawn."
440
00:21:58,943 --> 00:22:00,818
bob emenegger
was crushed. He said,
441
00:22:00,903 --> 00:22:02,987
"why? With everything
we've done,
442
00:22:03,031 --> 00:22:06,032
with everything that's in place,
why would you do this?"
443
00:22:06,117 --> 00:22:08,576
and he said, "watergate."
444
00:22:09,787 --> 00:22:12,872
grant cameron:
They said, "we can't allow
you to use the film.
445
00:22:12,957 --> 00:22:15,166
"you have to do
your own version of it.
446
00:22:15,209 --> 00:22:16,959
"something that might've
happened in the past
447
00:22:17,045 --> 00:22:19,670
may happen in the future."
so they did that.
448
00:22:19,714 --> 00:22:22,506
It was a documentary called
ufos: Past, present & future.
449
00:22:22,592 --> 00:22:25,092
And they also had
a book by the same name.
450
00:22:26,637 --> 00:22:28,804
Narrator:
Even without
the military's footage,
451
00:22:28,848 --> 00:22:32,600
the 1974 release
of emenegger's documentary
452
00:22:32,685 --> 00:22:36,228
caused a stir
among the ufo community.
453
00:22:37,273 --> 00:22:39,190
And many believe
the alleged encounter
454
00:22:39,233 --> 00:22:41,233
at holloman air force base
455
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:44,612
influenced a much more
famous film.
456
00:22:44,697 --> 00:22:47,073
The documentary
is done in 1975.
457
00:22:47,158 --> 00:22:49,158
Steven spielberg's close
encounters of the third kind
458
00:22:49,243 --> 00:22:51,744
came out in 1977.
459
00:22:51,829 --> 00:22:54,246
So when you see close
encounters of the third kind,
460
00:22:54,332 --> 00:22:56,165
it's the holloman
air force base story.
461
00:22:56,250 --> 00:22:57,708
Just changed the location.
462
00:22:57,794 --> 00:22:59,293
It's exactly
what the story was.
463
00:23:01,297 --> 00:23:04,757
Narrator:
On December 14, 1977,
464
00:23:04,842 --> 00:23:07,134
close encounters
of the third kind
465
00:23:07,220 --> 00:23:09,804
opens in wide release
across america,
466
00:23:09,889 --> 00:23:13,682
grossing over $10 million
its first week.
467
00:23:13,768 --> 00:23:17,770
But could it have been
based on an actual event?
468
00:23:17,855 --> 00:23:19,814
This is a fascinating story
469
00:23:19,899 --> 00:23:23,567
of a ufo landing
at an air force base.
470
00:23:23,653 --> 00:23:26,278
And, look,
the military themselves
471
00:23:26,364 --> 00:23:28,906
maybe can't just come out
and say this
472
00:23:28,991 --> 00:23:32,743
because, uh,
implicit in that admission
473
00:23:32,787 --> 00:23:34,578
would be an admission that
474
00:23:34,622 --> 00:23:37,081
they lied about this
for decades.
475
00:23:37,166 --> 00:23:41,919
But I think, also, that we can
handle this, this truth.
476
00:23:41,963 --> 00:23:43,712
A long time ago,
people would say,
477
00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:45,923
"well, how do you deal
with the skeptics?"
478
00:23:45,967 --> 00:23:48,092
one of the pioneers
who, unfortunately,
479
00:23:48,177 --> 00:23:50,678
is no longer
with us 'cause he passed away
480
00:23:50,763 --> 00:23:53,764
only a few years ago,
is dr. Stanton friedman
481
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:55,766
the nuclear physicist.
482
00:23:55,810 --> 00:23:59,979
Pope:
Stanton friedman was an absolute
powerhouse in this field.
483
00:24:00,064 --> 00:24:02,731
Over the course
of that career,
484
00:24:02,775 --> 00:24:05,317
he gave, I-I--
goodness, I don't have a figure.
485
00:24:05,403 --> 00:24:08,320
I-it's hundreds--
I think it's thousands
486
00:24:08,406 --> 00:24:10,865
of individual presentations
487
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:12,908
at schools, colleges,
488
00:24:12,994 --> 00:24:16,036
um, a-all sorts
of different places,
489
00:24:16,122 --> 00:24:18,664
and he was a-a crusader,
490
00:24:18,749 --> 00:24:20,583
an evangelist
for this subject,
491
00:24:20,668 --> 00:24:24,753
and I-I couldn't talk
about stanton
492
00:24:24,839 --> 00:24:27,715
without, of course,
mentioning roswell.
493
00:24:28,885 --> 00:24:31,719
Narrator:
As interest
in the ufo phenomenon grew,
494
00:24:31,804 --> 00:24:33,888
some of the nation's
top scientists
495
00:24:33,973 --> 00:24:36,265
began their own investigations,
496
00:24:36,309 --> 00:24:40,686
including nuclear physicist
dr. Stanton friedman.
497
00:24:40,771 --> 00:24:44,648
One of dr. Friedman's most
significant contributions
498
00:24:44,734 --> 00:24:46,734
to the study of ufos
499
00:24:46,819 --> 00:24:48,652
was his research
into an incident
500
00:24:48,738 --> 00:24:51,989
in roswell, new mexico in 1947
501
00:24:52,074 --> 00:24:55,034
when a flying saucer
allegedly crashed
502
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,829
and was swiftly covered up
by the u.S. Military.
503
00:24:58,915 --> 00:25:02,291
Stanton friedman's the man who
interviewed jesse marcel sr.
504
00:25:02,335 --> 00:25:05,377
Who was the most important
of the roswell witnesses.
505
00:25:05,463 --> 00:25:07,338
Narrator:
Major jesse marcel
506
00:25:07,381 --> 00:25:09,131
was the head
intelligence officer
507
00:25:09,217 --> 00:25:11,217
at roswell army airfield.
508
00:25:11,302 --> 00:25:14,178
He and brigadier general
roger ramey,
509
00:25:14,263 --> 00:25:16,180
head of the eighth air force,
510
00:25:16,224 --> 00:25:19,183
were the officers tasked
with transporting the debris
511
00:25:19,268 --> 00:25:22,853
recovered from the roswell crash
site to fort worth, texas
512
00:25:22,939 --> 00:25:24,939
to present to the media.
513
00:25:25,024 --> 00:25:27,191
In his interview
with stanton friedman,
514
00:25:27,276 --> 00:25:30,069
major marcel
made a shocking admission.
515
00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:31,695
He claimed that general ramey
516
00:25:31,739 --> 00:25:34,698
replaced the real
roswell debris.
517
00:25:34,784 --> 00:25:37,868
Birnes: Major marcel explained
how they swapped
518
00:25:37,912 --> 00:25:41,872
the roswell debris with radar
material from a radar balloon.
519
00:25:41,916 --> 00:25:44,667
And he had to swear
that's what he saw.
520
00:25:44,752 --> 00:25:48,379
So the point
is that stanton
521
00:25:48,464 --> 00:25:50,881
unearthed a lot
of this material
522
00:25:50,967 --> 00:25:53,300
and was the first person
to make it public.
523
00:25:53,386 --> 00:25:56,262
Narrator:
Stanton alleged that the
military was engaged
524
00:25:56,347 --> 00:25:59,014
in a widespread coverup
of the existence
525
00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:01,225
of extraterrestrial life,
526
00:26:01,269 --> 00:26:05,187
a scandal so big he called
it the "cosmic watergate."
527
00:26:05,273 --> 00:26:08,732
if you pick up
a ufo book written in the '50s
528
00:26:08,776 --> 00:26:10,317
and if it's got an index,
529
00:26:10,403 --> 00:26:12,403
and you think,
"oh, I'll look up roswell,"
530
00:26:12,488 --> 00:26:14,697
you won't find it.
It's not there.
531
00:26:14,782 --> 00:26:18,993
The rediscovery of roswell
is really credited
532
00:26:19,078 --> 00:26:21,078
-to stanton friedman.
-Interesting.
533
00:26:26,335 --> 00:26:28,252
You know, we've actually
been working
534
00:26:28,296 --> 00:26:30,129
all these years
with one of the earliest
535
00:26:30,214 --> 00:26:32,006
modern ufo researchers
536
00:26:32,091 --> 00:26:33,757
and pioneers that exist.
537
00:26:33,801 --> 00:26:35,801
She's a specialist
in cattle mutilations.
538
00:26:35,886 --> 00:26:39,138
She's a specialist in
ufos and roswell,
539
00:26:39,223 --> 00:26:42,099
our own linda moulton howe.
540
00:26:43,227 --> 00:26:44,977
Narrator:
For more than four decades,
541
00:26:45,062 --> 00:26:47,438
investigative reporter
linda moulton howe
542
00:26:47,523 --> 00:26:49,773
has been
researching a potential
543
00:26:49,859 --> 00:26:53,110
extraterrestrial
presence on earth.
544
00:26:53,195 --> 00:26:58,032
She has received numerous awards
for journalistic excellence
545
00:26:58,117 --> 00:27:01,118
including an emmy
for her 1980 documentary
546
00:27:01,203 --> 00:27:03,495
on cattle mutilations titled,
547
00:27:03,581 --> 00:27:05,164
a strange harvest.
548
00:27:05,249 --> 00:27:09,126
Today she is the reporter
and editor of the website
549
00:27:09,211 --> 00:27:12,630
earthfiles.Com,
which contains an archive
550
00:27:12,715 --> 00:27:16,967
of nearly 3,000
in-depth ufo reports.
551
00:27:18,012 --> 00:27:20,638
She's actually
waiting to speak with us
552
00:27:20,723 --> 00:27:22,556
with a video call.
553
00:27:23,643 --> 00:27:25,643
Tsoukalos:
Hi, linda. Good to see you.
554
00:27:25,686 --> 00:27:27,811
Hi, guys.
It's great to see you.
555
00:27:27,897 --> 00:27:29,647
So tell us, please,
556
00:27:29,732 --> 00:27:32,107
what got you
started in this field?
557
00:27:32,193 --> 00:27:34,693
I am a professional tv producer
558
00:27:34,779 --> 00:27:36,654
and an investigative reporter.
559
00:27:36,739 --> 00:27:39,490
In September of 1979,
560
00:27:39,575 --> 00:27:41,659
I was director
of special projects
561
00:27:41,744 --> 00:27:44,495
at the cbs station
in denver, colorado.
562
00:27:44,538 --> 00:27:47,039
And late in that summer,
there were headlines
563
00:27:47,124 --> 00:27:49,792
in the denver post
and the rocky mountain news
564
00:27:49,877 --> 00:27:53,712
about bloodless, trackless
animal mutilations
565
00:27:53,798 --> 00:27:56,048
in colorado
and surrounding states.
566
00:27:56,133 --> 00:27:58,842
I wanted to find out what
567
00:27:58,928 --> 00:28:03,138
did this mean, "a bloodless,
trackless animal mutilation"?
568
00:28:03,224 --> 00:28:05,516
This gets me involved,
and we do this
569
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:07,226
for my film
a strange harvest.
570
00:28:07,311 --> 00:28:09,812
There was
a classic pattern
571
00:28:09,897 --> 00:28:12,022
from case to case to case
572
00:28:12,108 --> 00:28:15,609
where these animals
have the same tissue taken:
573
00:28:15,695 --> 00:28:19,029
Ear, eye, tongue, jaw,
genitals and rectum.
574
00:28:19,115 --> 00:28:21,490
And those were excisions
575
00:28:21,534 --> 00:28:24,535
that really baffled the sheriffs
and the veterinarians
576
00:28:24,620 --> 00:28:27,871
because the bone
where the cut was made
577
00:28:27,957 --> 00:28:32,251
glistened like somebody
had melted and then polished.
578
00:28:32,336 --> 00:28:34,253
Right. This would imply
579
00:28:34,338 --> 00:28:36,964
some type
of external technology.
580
00:28:37,049 --> 00:28:39,758
Pope:
I'm wondering
in your research with
581
00:28:39,844 --> 00:28:41,885
the hundreds
of people you've spoken to,
582
00:28:41,971 --> 00:28:44,930
not just the ranchers,
but fellow journalists,
583
00:28:45,015 --> 00:28:47,725
broadcasters,
the veterinarians,
584
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:50,728
what is your
bottom line conclusions?
585
00:28:50,771 --> 00:28:52,187
Who's doing this and why?
586
00:28:52,273 --> 00:28:55,566
Well, nick,
there is no evidence beyond
587
00:28:55,651 --> 00:28:57,151
the bodies of these animals.
588
00:28:57,236 --> 00:28:59,820
But one of the ranchers
589
00:28:59,905 --> 00:29:02,072
told me
that one night he saw
590
00:29:02,158 --> 00:29:06,034
a round, glowing disc--
is all he could see--
591
00:29:06,078 --> 00:29:08,829
put a beam right down
into one of his pastures
592
00:29:08,914 --> 00:29:10,831
where they had been
having mutilations
593
00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:12,666
around in a large area.
594
00:29:12,752 --> 00:29:15,586
And in that beam of light,
595
00:29:15,671 --> 00:29:18,088
he saw
one of his animals.
596
00:29:19,175 --> 00:29:22,009
The sheriff
told me this himself.
597
00:29:22,094 --> 00:29:24,595
He said,
"I know that the perpetrators
598
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,055
"of these bloodless
animal mutilations
599
00:29:27,141 --> 00:29:28,932
are creatures
from outer space."
600
00:29:30,311 --> 00:29:32,603
and I felt like
I had been hit
601
00:29:32,646 --> 00:29:34,271
with an electrical shock.
602
00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:38,942
Narrator:
Creatures from outer space?
603
00:29:39,028 --> 00:29:41,779
Could extraterrestrials
be responsible
604
00:29:41,864 --> 00:29:44,323
for the bizarre
animal mutilations
605
00:29:44,408 --> 00:29:48,202
that have been reported by
ranchers all over the country?
606
00:29:48,287 --> 00:29:51,121
But, if so, to what end?
607
00:29:51,165 --> 00:29:53,916
Howe:
I have literally
interviewed thousands now.
608
00:29:54,001 --> 00:29:56,251
You hear,
609
00:29:56,337 --> 00:29:59,671
"I saw this kind of light."
610
00:29:59,757 --> 00:30:03,300
"I saw this beam lowering
an animal to the pasture,
611
00:30:03,385 --> 00:30:05,177
and it was mutilated."
612
00:30:05,262 --> 00:30:07,304
somebody else saw
this animal coming up
613
00:30:07,389 --> 00:30:10,808
in a beam of light, and later
it was found mutilated.
614
00:30:10,851 --> 00:30:13,644
And what people
were describing
615
00:30:13,729 --> 00:30:15,687
in the 20th century
616
00:30:15,773 --> 00:30:19,942
are what people were describing
in the third century
617
00:30:20,027 --> 00:30:22,653
or 500 bc
618
00:30:22,738 --> 00:30:24,822
or going back in time.
619
00:30:24,907 --> 00:30:28,158
And it's not just
the united states.
620
00:30:28,202 --> 00:30:30,994
It's canada,
mexico, central america,
621
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,206
south america,
australia, new zealand,
622
00:30:34,291 --> 00:30:36,416
all of western europe
623
00:30:36,502 --> 00:30:39,002
and going
into eastern europe.
624
00:30:40,214 --> 00:30:43,674
Narrator:
According to the fbi,
thousands of cattle mutilations
625
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:47,678
have been reported across
the u.S. Since the 1970s.
626
00:30:47,721 --> 00:30:50,889
Linda's
pioneering investigations
627
00:30:50,975 --> 00:30:53,308
forced those who study
the ufo phenomenon
628
00:30:53,394 --> 00:30:56,186
to consider
a chilling proposition:
629
00:30:56,272 --> 00:30:59,731
That extraterrestrial
beings aren't just here
630
00:30:59,817 --> 00:31:01,400
to observe us.
631
00:31:01,485 --> 00:31:04,695
They may have
an agenda for our planet.
632
00:31:05,865 --> 00:31:09,157
Howe:
I think it's important
to get across that
633
00:31:09,201 --> 00:31:12,035
there are real people
who have been afraid
634
00:31:12,121 --> 00:31:14,830
to come forward and describe
635
00:31:14,874 --> 00:31:17,040
what they actually saw
with their own eyes
636
00:31:17,084 --> 00:31:19,376
because they didn't have
video proof
637
00:31:19,461 --> 00:31:21,879
and they don't want
to be criticized.
638
00:31:21,964 --> 00:31:25,215
Tsoukalos:
Well, linda, this has been
absolutely invaluable,
639
00:31:25,301 --> 00:31:28,802
and we are all so lucky
to have you on board with us.
640
00:31:28,888 --> 00:31:31,096
So we thank you
very much for your time.
641
00:31:31,181 --> 00:31:33,724
Thank you, giorgio.
642
00:31:33,767 --> 00:31:35,726
-That was incredible.
-Wow. That was pretty
interesting.
643
00:31:35,811 --> 00:31:38,353
She was like
the first dogged reporter,
644
00:31:38,439 --> 00:31:40,480
investigative reporter,
you know, phoning up people,
645
00:31:40,566 --> 00:31:42,482
going to those sites,
interviewing people.
646
00:31:42,568 --> 00:31:45,319
Yeah, it-it brings it home
647
00:31:45,404 --> 00:31:47,988
that these ufos have real
648
00:31:48,073 --> 00:31:50,866
tangible, physical effects
649
00:31:50,951 --> 00:31:53,410
and that means it's not just
imagination. It's real.
650
00:31:59,293 --> 00:32:01,126
By the way,
the u.S. Government
651
00:32:01,211 --> 00:32:03,253
is one of
the last governments to admit
652
00:32:03,339 --> 00:32:05,172
there is a ufo phenomenon.
653
00:32:05,257 --> 00:32:06,757
But now we all actually
know that the u.S. Government
654
00:32:06,842 --> 00:32:09,593
has been investigating
this since the '40s.
655
00:32:09,678 --> 00:32:13,847
Absolutely. And records,
files, documents,
656
00:32:13,933 --> 00:32:17,601
are being declassified
and released in record numbers.
657
00:32:17,686 --> 00:32:19,061
In the united kingdom,
for example,
658
00:32:19,146 --> 00:32:20,604
we've declassified and released
659
00:32:20,689 --> 00:32:23,649
about 60,000 pages
660
00:32:23,734 --> 00:32:26,985
of ufo documents, some of which
were very highly classified.
661
00:32:27,071 --> 00:32:29,613
And so we get
662
00:32:29,657 --> 00:32:31,698
this fuller picture
of what's going on.
663
00:32:31,784 --> 00:32:34,952
And now, you know, uh,
almost everybody who has had
664
00:32:35,037 --> 00:32:37,204
an experience feels
665
00:32:37,289 --> 00:32:40,624
compelled to come forward
to tell their story.
666
00:32:40,709 --> 00:32:44,127
I mean, this reminds me
of one influential person
667
00:32:44,171 --> 00:32:46,171
and modern pioneer,
bob lazar.
668
00:32:46,256 --> 00:32:47,798
Yes, uh, he was somebody
669
00:32:47,883 --> 00:32:52,010
who first spoke out in 1989.
670
00:32:53,222 --> 00:32:57,057
Dolan: Bob lazar is someone who
became famous back in 1989
671
00:32:57,142 --> 00:33:00,644
as a result of a very
specific claim that he made.
672
00:33:01,730 --> 00:33:03,981
And that claim
is that he worked
673
00:33:04,024 --> 00:33:06,066
at a place
just south of area 51.
674
00:33:06,151 --> 00:33:08,110
He called it s4.
675
00:33:08,195 --> 00:33:10,237
He was interviewed
by a las vegas journalist,
676
00:33:10,322 --> 00:33:13,907
george knapp in a series
of very detailed interviews.
677
00:33:15,285 --> 00:33:18,495
We put him on the air,
blacked out his face,
678
00:33:18,580 --> 00:33:20,080
and he told
this incredible story.
679
00:33:21,875 --> 00:33:23,834
Knapp: Exactly what's
going on up there?
680
00:33:23,877 --> 00:33:26,837
Bob lazar: Well, there's
several, uh, actually nine,
681
00:33:26,922 --> 00:33:29,923
uh, flying saucers,
flying discs,
682
00:33:30,009 --> 00:33:33,677
uh, that are out there
of extraterrestrial origin.
683
00:33:33,762 --> 00:33:37,639
He said it's a secret that
needed to be told to the world,
684
00:33:37,725 --> 00:33:39,683
that his life was in danger,
685
00:33:39,727 --> 00:33:42,978
and that he was coming forward
and, uh, and wanted to tell it.
686
00:33:43,063 --> 00:33:46,857
I could feel my jaw dropping.
Is this real?
687
00:33:47,943 --> 00:33:50,193
We left there thinking,
"wow. If this is real,
688
00:33:50,279 --> 00:33:52,070
this is a really big story."
689
00:33:52,156 --> 00:33:55,073
so we decided, well,
let's take the time
690
00:33:55,159 --> 00:33:56,742
and get this right.
691
00:33:57,786 --> 00:33:59,661
Narrator:
Over the next eight months,
692
00:33:59,747 --> 00:34:02,080
knapp conducted
a thorough investigation
693
00:34:02,166 --> 00:34:05,083
of lazar's sensational claims.
694
00:34:05,169 --> 00:34:09,004
According to lazar,
before he worked at s4,
695
00:34:09,089 --> 00:34:12,841
he as a physicist at the
los alamos national laboratory--
696
00:34:12,926 --> 00:34:16,845
the facility
that developed the atomic bomb.
697
00:34:16,930 --> 00:34:18,889
The central
question for me was,
698
00:34:18,974 --> 00:34:21,224
"did he work at los alamos?"
699
00:34:21,310 --> 00:34:23,727
because if he did,
700
00:34:23,812 --> 00:34:26,897
it would at least be plausible
that if he worked there
701
00:34:26,982 --> 00:34:29,566
in a technical or scientific
position, that he could also
702
00:34:29,651 --> 00:34:31,234
be hired at a place like s4.
703
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,779
So that's where
we focused our attention.
704
00:34:33,864 --> 00:34:35,906
I started calling los alamos.
705
00:34:35,991 --> 00:34:39,284
At first, "no. We have no record
of a guy named bob lazar."
706
00:34:39,369 --> 00:34:42,162
I got the phone book
from the los alamos lab.
707
00:34:42,247 --> 00:34:44,915
There's his name in the phone
book. I call them back and said,
708
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,875
"hey, he's in the phone book."
709
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,669
they finally sort of
exasperatingly told me,
710
00:34:49,755 --> 00:34:53,173
"yeah, we've got a record
of him being here."
711
00:34:53,258 --> 00:34:56,259
we found bob lazar
to be credible, um,
712
00:34:56,345 --> 00:34:59,971
about his background, his, uh,
his scientific training,
713
00:35:00,057 --> 00:35:01,681
where he had worked.
714
00:35:02,726 --> 00:35:04,810
Narrator:
For more than two decades,
715
00:35:04,895 --> 00:35:07,020
bob lazar's critics claimed
716
00:35:07,106 --> 00:35:09,981
there was no evidence
of any secret military base
717
00:35:10,067 --> 00:35:12,109
in the nevada desert.
718
00:35:12,194 --> 00:35:14,319
But then, in 2013,
719
00:35:14,404 --> 00:35:17,697
a freedom
of information act request
720
00:35:17,783 --> 00:35:20,117
forced the cia
to finally acknowledge
721
00:35:20,202 --> 00:35:23,078
that area 51 is real.
722
00:35:23,163 --> 00:35:25,038
Corbell:
The story of area 51--
723
00:35:25,124 --> 00:35:28,625
it exploded
around the world.
724
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:30,710
The reason
you know about area 51
725
00:35:30,796 --> 00:35:32,754
is because bob lazar
and george knapp
726
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,924
on the news, 1989,
made it a household name.
727
00:35:36,009 --> 00:35:37,384
That's the reason.
728
00:35:38,387 --> 00:35:40,971
All of that
came from bob lazar.
729
00:35:42,015 --> 00:35:43,723
Narrator:
To many researchers,
730
00:35:43,809 --> 00:35:46,309
the government's
acknowledgement of area 51
731
00:35:46,395 --> 00:35:50,188
established lazar
as more than a ufo pioneer.
732
00:35:50,274 --> 00:35:54,317
His inside access
made him a whistleblower.
733
00:35:55,904 --> 00:35:57,904
My name's bob lazar.
734
00:35:57,990 --> 00:36:01,992
I'm known for working
at a classified base
735
00:36:02,077 --> 00:36:04,619
known as s4
out in the nevada desert
736
00:36:04,663 --> 00:36:06,371
near area 51,
737
00:36:06,456 --> 00:36:09,332
and there
we reverse-engineered
738
00:36:09,376 --> 00:36:11,001
alien spacecraft.
739
00:36:12,212 --> 00:36:16,298
Narrator:
But could lazar's
sensational claims be true?
740
00:36:16,383 --> 00:36:19,801
Former air force pilot
captain david fruehauf
741
00:36:19,887 --> 00:36:22,220
worked at area 51
742
00:36:22,306 --> 00:36:26,057
from 1979 until 1985.
743
00:36:26,143 --> 00:36:29,686
And while he was never shown
any alien technology,
744
00:36:29,771 --> 00:36:32,189
he attests
that bob lazar's account
745
00:36:32,274 --> 00:36:35,025
of the facility
is entirely accurate.
746
00:36:36,778 --> 00:36:39,196
When I was there,
we knew about s4,
747
00:36:39,281 --> 00:36:41,239
but we didn't know
what they did.
748
00:36:42,242 --> 00:36:45,702
And I know people
that had worked for me
749
00:36:45,787 --> 00:36:49,456
that after I left there,
they had seen bob lazar there,
750
00:36:49,541 --> 00:36:51,666
and they admitted that
to me recently.
751
00:36:51,752 --> 00:36:55,212
Bob lazar's statements
and all the things he had said
752
00:36:55,297 --> 00:36:57,214
have gelled now to the point
753
00:36:57,299 --> 00:36:59,549
where I think
he's very credible.
754
00:37:01,803 --> 00:37:03,428
It doesn't
necessarily prove
755
00:37:03,513 --> 00:37:06,056
every aspect
of bob lazar's story,
756
00:37:06,141 --> 00:37:08,183
but bob lazar said
there was an area 51
757
00:37:08,268 --> 00:37:10,685
and the government then said,
"yeah, okay there is."
758
00:37:10,771 --> 00:37:13,104
-so it makes one wonder.
-Right.
759
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:15,899
I mean, look,
if roswell was real, uh,
760
00:37:15,943 --> 00:37:17,734
they had to take
the wreckage somewhere,
761
00:37:17,819 --> 00:37:20,737
and, of course, it stands
to reason we'd want to know,
762
00:37:20,781 --> 00:37:22,447
uh, can we build
these things ourselves?
763
00:37:22,532 --> 00:37:25,700
Can we develop this technology?
You'd do it somewhere.
764
00:37:25,786 --> 00:37:27,994
What better place
than area 51?
765
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,289
And area 51 today
is part of our pop culture.
766
00:37:31,375 --> 00:37:34,042
-I mean, everyone
knows about area 51.
-Tsoukalos: Right.
767
00:37:34,127 --> 00:37:36,503
I think that
anyone who genuinely
768
00:37:36,588 --> 00:37:38,421
looks into
the ufo phenomenon--
769
00:37:38,507 --> 00:37:42,175
you have to come away
with some belief in it.
770
00:37:42,261 --> 00:37:44,261
There's no getting away
from the fact
771
00:37:44,346 --> 00:37:46,304
that we are
in a stronger position
772
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:50,183
now, in terms of evidence,
than we've ever been.
773
00:37:50,269 --> 00:37:52,310
And, actually,
when this is accepted,
774
00:37:52,396 --> 00:37:56,022
we are going to have
to fundamentally rethink
775
00:37:56,108 --> 00:37:57,941
our place
in the wider cosmos.
776
00:37:58,026 --> 00:37:59,276
Right. Yes.
777
00:38:06,326 --> 00:38:08,785
Well, gentlemen, this has been
a fascinating conversation.
778
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:11,788
So with everything
that we have so far,
779
00:38:11,873 --> 00:38:14,082
cattle mutilations,
ufo sightings,
780
00:38:14,126 --> 00:38:15,959
and also ancient stories
that pretty much speak
781
00:38:16,003 --> 00:38:17,627
of the same thing,
782
00:38:17,671 --> 00:38:19,462
you have to wonder
783
00:38:19,506 --> 00:38:23,466
where does this all lead
and will we soon come closer
784
00:38:23,552 --> 00:38:25,010
to the truth?
785
00:38:25,095 --> 00:38:26,469
Childress:
There's an amazing consistency
786
00:38:26,555 --> 00:38:27,971
to all of these reports.
787
00:38:28,015 --> 00:38:30,974
And when you put
them all in totality,
788
00:38:31,059 --> 00:38:33,852
it's just not something
you can dismiss.
789
00:38:33,937 --> 00:38:35,979
-Something's going on.
-Pope: It is.
790
00:38:36,023 --> 00:38:37,981
And we're building up
to something.
791
00:38:39,526 --> 00:38:41,484
Pilot:
My gosh.
792
00:38:41,570 --> 00:38:43,528
Pope:
We have military pilots,
793
00:38:43,613 --> 00:38:46,698
and radar operators,
going on the record with this,
794
00:38:46,783 --> 00:38:49,659
government officials
who have been involved
795
00:38:49,745 --> 00:38:51,619
in these sorts of programs,
796
00:38:51,663 --> 00:38:54,831
we have declassification
of documents.
797
00:38:54,875 --> 00:38:56,666
Childress:
It seems to be
798
00:38:56,752 --> 00:38:58,960
the beginning
of disclosure, in a sense.
799
00:38:59,046 --> 00:39:03,506
Narrator:
Could disclosure, in fact,
already be happening
800
00:39:03,550 --> 00:39:06,801
with evidence coming
from many sources?
801
00:39:06,887 --> 00:39:09,137
In December 2020,
802
00:39:09,222 --> 00:39:12,182
former cia director
john brennan
803
00:39:12,225 --> 00:39:14,851
made a surprising statement
about ufos
804
00:39:14,895 --> 00:39:17,520
on the conversations
with tyler podcast.
805
00:39:17,564 --> 00:39:19,647
I think some of the phenomena
we're going to be seeing
806
00:39:19,733 --> 00:39:22,025
continues to be,
uh, unexplained
807
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:24,194
and might, in fact,
808
00:39:24,279 --> 00:39:26,029
be a different form of life.
809
00:39:28,784 --> 00:39:31,618
We are living through
a remarkable turning point
810
00:39:31,703 --> 00:39:33,703
right now in ufo studies.
811
00:39:33,789 --> 00:39:36,706
We don't know
what these objects are,
812
00:39:36,792 --> 00:39:39,751
but the fact that these
objects are documented,
813
00:39:39,836 --> 00:39:41,544
backed by evidence,
814
00:39:41,630 --> 00:39:45,006
backed by a long record
of credible testimony
815
00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:47,884
is no longer in dispute.
816
00:39:50,013 --> 00:39:53,723
It's been over 70 years
since these early pioneers
817
00:39:53,809 --> 00:39:56,059
began collecting data
and releasing it
818
00:39:56,144 --> 00:39:57,894
to the public
and we've really
819
00:39:57,938 --> 00:40:00,522
-come a long way since then.
-We should never forget
820
00:40:00,565 --> 00:40:01,940
that all these people,
821
00:40:02,025 --> 00:40:04,234
whether it's jacques vallée,
822
00:40:04,277 --> 00:40:06,694
dr. J. Allen hynek,
823
00:40:06,780 --> 00:40:08,863
coral lorenzen,
824
00:40:08,949 --> 00:40:12,033
linda moulton howe--
without them we probably
825
00:40:12,077 --> 00:40:16,079
wouldn't be in the fortunate
position that we are in today.
826
00:40:16,123 --> 00:40:19,833
All of these people
went down a path
827
00:40:19,918 --> 00:40:22,877
that was, at the time,
unheard of,
828
00:40:22,963 --> 00:40:25,213
and, in a way,
we are standing on
829
00:40:25,298 --> 00:40:27,590
the shoulders of giants
830
00:40:27,634 --> 00:40:30,718
because through the work
of the pioneers
831
00:40:30,804 --> 00:40:33,096
and through
shows like ancient aliens,
832
00:40:33,181 --> 00:40:36,724
and now almost everybody
who has had an experience
833
00:40:36,810 --> 00:40:40,061
feels compelled
to tell their story
834
00:40:40,147 --> 00:40:43,606
because it has become
more accepted,
835
00:40:43,692 --> 00:40:46,067
and the so-called zeitgeist
836
00:40:46,153 --> 00:40:49,112
has changed in our favor.
837
00:40:49,156 --> 00:40:51,281
Well, I think you're right.
838
00:40:51,324 --> 00:40:54,742
It's been a great conversation
with you guys.
839
00:40:54,828 --> 00:40:57,996
It's just-just a
fascinating subject, of course.
840
00:40:58,081 --> 00:40:59,664
Yeah, thank you very much
for the information, nick.
841
00:40:59,749 --> 00:41:02,542
And everything that
we've talked about today
842
00:41:02,627 --> 00:41:06,129
illustrates this disclosure
that has been going on
843
00:41:06,173 --> 00:41:09,340
for a very long time,
and I can't wait to see
844
00:41:09,426 --> 00:41:12,260
what the future holds,
and I thank you for your time.
845
00:41:12,304 --> 00:41:13,761
-Thank you.
-Thanks, nick.
846
00:41:13,805 --> 00:41:15,972
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