1 00:00:02,085 --> 00:00:04,293 You walk through the front door, 2 00:00:04,293 --> 00:00:07,918 and you're hit with unopened boxes of things I've bought. 3 00:00:07,918 --> 00:00:09,668 [dramatic music] 4 00:00:09,668 --> 00:00:14,210 The kitchen was de-hoarded once, but give me five days 5 00:00:14,210 --> 00:00:15,918 and I can hoard it up real quick. 6 00:00:15,918 --> 00:00:18,710 [dramatic banging] 7 00:00:18,710 --> 00:00:20,668 It's my place and my style of living. 8 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:23,126 I think everyone should have a choice 9 00:00:23,126 --> 00:00:25,585 of how they want to live. 10 00:00:25,585 --> 00:00:27,918 Carl currently owes the city of Tampa 11 00:00:27,918 --> 00:00:31,751 well over a million dollars in code enforcement fines. 12 00:00:31,751 --> 00:00:33,085 To me, it's ridiculous. 13 00:00:33,085 --> 00:00:34,543 [knocking at door] 14 00:00:34,543 --> 00:00:35,501 Who's there? 15 00:00:35,501 --> 00:00:38,210 It's a secret pal from the past. 16 00:00:38,210 --> 00:00:41,543 I've come back to visit Eric, 17 00:00:41,543 --> 00:00:44,001 and I was really hoping that he was able 18 00:00:44,001 --> 00:00:45,460 to maintain the progress 19 00:00:45,460 --> 00:00:48,085 that was made when we were here before. 20 00:00:48,085 --> 00:00:49,085 Long time. 21 00:00:49,085 --> 00:00:50,251 Yes, it is. 22 00:00:50,251 --> 00:00:51,585 - Very long time. - God bless you. 23 00:00:51,585 --> 00:00:53,668 It's been years since I visited Carl, 24 00:00:53,668 --> 00:00:55,710 and so I'm really looking forward to seeing 25 00:00:55,710 --> 00:00:56,876 how he's doing. 26 00:00:56,876 --> 00:00:59,793 I believe that you have the capacity 27 00:00:59,793 --> 00:01:01,710 to have a better life for yourself. 28 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:04,418 Hi, I was hoping to speak with somebody 29 00:01:04,418 --> 00:01:06,918 in Adult Protective Services. 30 00:01:06,918 --> 00:01:08,335 Yeah, I'd like to make a report. 31 00:01:08,335 --> 00:01:11,668 [soft mysterious music] 32 00:01:24,085 --> 00:01:27,335 [gentle somber music] 33 00:01:41,793 --> 00:01:44,835 [soft mysterious music] 34 00:01:50,918 --> 00:01:53,835 My name is Carl. I'm 77 years old. 35 00:01:55,043 --> 00:01:56,793 I've been a hoarder all my life. 36 00:01:58,001 --> 00:02:00,585 [dramatic bang] 37 00:02:00,585 --> 00:02:03,126 [somber music] 38 00:02:03,918 --> 00:02:05,585 You see a lot of collection. 39 00:02:05,585 --> 00:02:08,543 And the collection is historical, preservation, 40 00:02:08,543 --> 00:02:09,418 and recycling. 41 00:02:10,418 --> 00:02:12,501 And sometimes you have to mix it together 42 00:02:12,501 --> 00:02:15,585 because you don't have the means to separate it real well. 43 00:02:15,585 --> 00:02:18,293 But if you throw it away, you never go back and get it. 44 00:02:21,710 --> 00:02:23,793 I'm Michelle, and I'm Carl's neighbor. 45 00:02:25,751 --> 00:02:29,293 I have known Carl for probably seven, 46 00:02:29,293 --> 00:02:30,876 going into eight years now. 47 00:02:32,210 --> 00:02:34,585 I would say Carl's a hoarder. 48 00:02:34,585 --> 00:02:38,751 It's not just because of the accumulation of things. 49 00:02:38,751 --> 00:02:42,418 It's his inability to part with the things. 50 00:02:43,418 --> 00:02:47,418 This house looks like a recycling place. 51 00:02:47,418 --> 00:02:48,918 I think everyone should have a choice 52 00:02:48,918 --> 00:02:51,543 of how they want to live. 53 00:02:51,543 --> 00:02:53,460 It's my place and my style of living. 54 00:02:55,501 --> 00:02:59,043 In 2015, the police came out here 55 00:02:59,043 --> 00:03:01,418 and arrested me on a felony charge and a littering charge. 56 00:03:01,418 --> 00:03:03,960 I was never notified about those charges. 57 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,418 Just came out here without nothing 58 00:03:06,418 --> 00:03:09,335 and arrested me right on site, without questioning me. 59 00:03:11,293 --> 00:03:14,418 [soft somber music] 60 00:03:20,126 --> 00:03:21,918 - It is good to see you here. - Thank you. 61 00:03:21,918 --> 00:03:22,876 Alright. You ready for this? 62 00:03:22,876 --> 00:03:24,376 [Carl] Yes. 63 00:03:24,376 --> 00:03:25,751 Alright, we've got a long day ahead of us today. 64 00:03:25,751 --> 00:03:28,418 We've got your friends here, you got your neighbors, 65 00:03:28,418 --> 00:03:29,751 they're here to help you. 66 00:03:29,751 --> 00:03:31,668 So there's a lotta people that care about you. 67 00:03:31,668 --> 00:03:34,751 I'm gonna be really challenging you to let go of some stuff. 68 00:03:34,751 --> 00:03:37,960 This is a one-time chance to get all this behind you 69 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,835 and start a new life, whatever that looks like for you. 70 00:03:41,918 --> 00:03:43,251 Do you think you're willing to put forth the effort 71 00:03:43,251 --> 00:03:44,043 to get there? 72 00:03:44,043 --> 00:03:44,960 Yes. 73 00:03:46,085 --> 00:03:47,668 These are instructions I have to keep, 74 00:03:47,668 --> 00:03:49,085 but I had lost these a while back. 75 00:03:49,085 --> 00:03:50,251 - [Cory] Instructions for what? - [Michelle] For what? 76 00:03:50,251 --> 00:03:51,376 [Cory] What is it for? 77 00:03:51,376 --> 00:03:52,251 Is this something that you still own 78 00:03:52,251 --> 00:03:54,626 and need instructions for? 79 00:03:54,626 --> 00:03:56,585 Well, no, but it's history instructions. 80 00:03:56,585 --> 00:03:58,126 Carl, this is not history. 81 00:03:58,126 --> 00:03:59,793 This is an old set of instructions. 82 00:03:59,793 --> 00:04:01,001 I need to keep that. 83 00:04:01,001 --> 00:04:03,335 Don't people have political signs from presidents 84 00:04:03,335 --> 00:04:04,418 from the 1800s? 85 00:04:04,418 --> 00:04:05,751 I'm sure they're somewhere. 86 00:04:05,751 --> 00:04:07,085 [David] This is not from the 1800s, Carl. 87 00:04:07,085 --> 00:04:08,585 - It doesn't matter what year- - This is not history. 88 00:04:08,585 --> 00:04:09,835 It's still poli, yeah, it is. 89 00:04:09,835 --> 00:04:13,751 This is a funnel I have to keep. It's a tool. 90 00:04:13,751 --> 00:04:18,585 That belonged to my family at Ford Motor, 91 00:04:18,585 --> 00:04:20,918 and everything on it, so I gotta keep that. 92 00:04:20,918 --> 00:04:22,751 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 93 00:04:22,751 --> 00:04:24,751 Tell me why you gotta keep this, Carl. 94 00:04:24,751 --> 00:04:28,751 'Cause my family worked on Ford Motor Company cars 95 00:04:28,751 --> 00:04:31,626 and they gave me that a long time ago. 96 00:04:31,626 --> 00:04:33,668 Okay, but it's an old hubcap cover. 97 00:04:33,668 --> 00:04:35,376 Yes, but I can't throw away a old cap 98 00:04:35,376 --> 00:04:37,751 because you don't see those kind no more. 99 00:04:37,751 --> 00:04:40,335 But does that really justify hanging onto it, Carl? 100 00:04:40,335 --> 00:04:42,043 Yes, it does. 101 00:04:42,043 --> 00:04:43,001 - Tell me how. - I mean, 102 00:04:43,001 --> 00:04:44,293 it's not gonna be in my way. 103 00:04:44,293 --> 00:04:45,751 Yes, it's all in your way. 104 00:04:45,751 --> 00:04:47,168 Each little piece is in your way. 105 00:04:47,168 --> 00:04:50,210 Yes, but where's my history? 106 00:04:50,210 --> 00:04:51,710 I don't wanna crush this guy's dreams. 107 00:04:51,710 --> 00:04:53,585 I don't wanna tell him that his stuff is no good, 108 00:04:53,585 --> 00:04:55,793 that his collections are not valuable. 109 00:04:55,793 --> 00:04:59,210 But at the same time, he's got to recognize 110 00:04:59,210 --> 00:05:01,418 that he's holding on to junk. 111 00:05:01,418 --> 00:05:04,293 If this doesn't work out, what's gonna happen? 112 00:05:04,293 --> 00:05:06,043 - I'm in trouble. - Okay. 113 00:05:06,043 --> 00:05:08,251 But that doesn't mean I gotta throw something away 114 00:05:08,251 --> 00:05:09,460 that's usable. 115 00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:11,418 No, no, no, no. Carl, come back. 116 00:05:11,418 --> 00:05:13,251 You're in trouble. How in trouble are you? 117 00:05:13,251 --> 00:05:15,293 That's in trouble, because I keep a bottle 118 00:05:15,293 --> 00:05:16,835 for soap? - Carl. Carl. 119 00:05:16,835 --> 00:05:20,043 Now I could be in trouble with all that junk there. 120 00:05:20,043 --> 00:05:23,210 That's true. That is not junk. 121 00:05:23,210 --> 00:05:24,835 This is the same as the soap. 122 00:05:24,835 --> 00:05:26,293 - No it's not. - It could be trash bins. 123 00:05:26,293 --> 00:05:28,085 It could be anything. - You can use soap. 124 00:05:28,085 --> 00:05:29,626 I cannot use that, like use soap. 125 00:05:29,626 --> 00:05:32,710 Well, go show me all the stuff. I want you to show me. 126 00:05:32,710 --> 00:05:34,168 Show me the things that aren't useful. 127 00:05:34,168 --> 00:05:37,918 Because right now, what I'm seeing, everything's useful. 128 00:05:37,918 --> 00:05:40,835 [slow somber music] 129 00:05:45,001 --> 00:05:47,668 So the plan is, we're gonna break up into two teams. 130 00:05:47,668 --> 00:05:49,168 You'll go in the house with me. 131 00:05:49,168 --> 00:05:50,251 You wanna go in with us, Dr. Tolin? 132 00:05:50,251 --> 00:05:51,418 Sure, I'll come in. Absolutely. 133 00:05:51,418 --> 00:05:53,001 Michelle's gonna stay out here. 134 00:05:53,001 --> 00:05:54,751 And, I think this is really good 135 00:05:54,751 --> 00:05:56,335 that you're able to trust Michelle enough 136 00:05:56,335 --> 00:05:57,960 where we can split up and kind of duplicate 137 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,335 the workload getting done. 138 00:05:59,335 --> 00:06:00,418 Let's get to work. 139 00:06:00,418 --> 00:06:01,418 - All right. - Let's do it. 140 00:06:01,418 --> 00:06:03,918 [somber music] 141 00:06:05,668 --> 00:06:08,626 [boxes bang into truck bed] 142 00:06:09,585 --> 00:06:11,001 [David] So, how's it going in here? 143 00:06:11,001 --> 00:06:12,251 - Slowly. - Slowly? 144 00:06:12,251 --> 00:06:13,668 It is very slow, 145 00:06:13,668 --> 00:06:17,501 and he is keeping definitely way too much, Dr. Tolin. 146 00:06:18,585 --> 00:06:20,335 How much would you say that Carl is keeping 147 00:06:20,335 --> 00:06:22,501 and throwing out? - He's keeping 85%, 148 00:06:22,501 --> 00:06:24,585 maybe throwing out about 15%. 149 00:06:24,585 --> 00:06:26,126 So Carl, what do you think about that? 150 00:06:26,126 --> 00:06:28,293 Well, it's gonna be a lot more thrown away. 151 00:06:28,293 --> 00:06:29,960 Believe me. Believe me. 152 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,418 Carolina is suggesting that you're keeping 153 00:06:32,418 --> 00:06:34,043 about 85% of the stuff. 154 00:06:34,043 --> 00:06:35,960 Well, it may look like it now, but it's not gonna, 155 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,043 it's gonna be more I'm gonna be throwing away. 156 00:06:38,043 --> 00:06:41,918 So, I think we're doing good. I really do. 157 00:06:44,251 --> 00:06:47,168 [deep tense music] 158 00:06:49,668 --> 00:06:52,418 What happened to all the clothes hangers that were here? 159 00:06:52,418 --> 00:06:54,918 We boxed 'em up and put it in for recycling. 160 00:06:54,918 --> 00:06:58,501 I said leave those clothes hangers alone. 161 00:06:59,501 --> 00:07:02,710 I definitely said that 4,000 times. 162 00:07:02,710 --> 00:07:04,085 They were covered with mildew. 163 00:07:04,085 --> 00:07:06,501 They were no longer healthy. 164 00:07:06,501 --> 00:07:08,751 I said, "Leave these alone." 165 00:07:08,751 --> 00:07:12,418 And I said that 4,000 times about this. 166 00:07:14,085 --> 00:07:15,626 Carl's freaking out about the hangers. 167 00:07:15,626 --> 00:07:17,251 You know, we're talking about a couple dollars 168 00:07:17,251 --> 00:07:19,001 worth of hangers. 169 00:07:19,001 --> 00:07:20,793 And in the big picture, I don't get it, but he is pissed. 170 00:07:20,793 --> 00:07:22,751 [David] Why are you getting so upset over some hangers? 171 00:07:22,751 --> 00:07:25,751 All the families from the cigar factory 172 00:07:25,751 --> 00:07:27,835 basically lived here. 173 00:07:27,835 --> 00:07:30,543 They had to make due with what they had to live with. 174 00:07:30,543 --> 00:07:34,501 We were the last family on this damn neighborhood 175 00:07:34,501 --> 00:07:36,751 to have a damn washing machine! 176 00:07:36,751 --> 00:07:38,001 When Carl gets agitated, 177 00:07:38,001 --> 00:07:40,043 he goes on these almost incoherent rants. 178 00:07:40,043 --> 00:07:42,251 We were the last ones to have a damn TV 179 00:07:42,251 --> 00:07:43,626 in this damn neighborhood! 180 00:07:43,626 --> 00:07:46,626 He starts screaming about his neighbors, 181 00:07:46,626 --> 00:07:49,793 and about the government, and about Fidel Castro. 182 00:07:49,793 --> 00:07:52,168 That's that stupid Fidel Castro embargo, 183 00:07:52,168 --> 00:07:56,001 and this stupid country we got has done nothing about it 184 00:07:56,001 --> 00:07:58,668 to fix it to get more jobs in Florida! 185 00:07:58,668 --> 00:08:00,835 And the damn- - Carl, Carl, Carl. 186 00:08:00,835 --> 00:08:02,668 Carl, come here. Come here, man. 187 00:08:04,001 --> 00:08:05,751 What's going on with you right now? 188 00:08:05,751 --> 00:08:09,335 He's so wrapped up in other worries and other concerns 189 00:08:09,335 --> 00:08:10,918 that he can't keep his mind straight. 190 00:08:10,918 --> 00:08:12,626 I don't think that what we're doing is pointless, 191 00:08:12,626 --> 00:08:14,543 but I do think that we have to shift focus 192 00:08:14,543 --> 00:08:17,668 and focus more on Carl's safety 193 00:08:17,668 --> 00:08:19,710 than on his changing his behavior, 194 00:08:19,710 --> 00:08:22,251 'cause I don't think he's gonna change his behavior. 195 00:08:24,710 --> 00:08:27,585 [soft dramatic music] 196 00:08:31,335 --> 00:08:34,751 [tense pulsating music] 197 00:08:40,001 --> 00:08:43,001 [truck engine purrs] 198 00:08:49,918 --> 00:08:52,043 Alright, you guys, we made it. 199 00:08:52,043 --> 00:08:54,918 We had some struggles, but you made it through. Okay. 200 00:08:54,918 --> 00:08:57,335 How are you feeling right now, at the end of all this? 201 00:08:57,335 --> 00:08:58,876 I feel better. 202 00:08:58,876 --> 00:09:02,876 There's a place that I, that I lost, and now you found it. 203 00:09:04,293 --> 00:09:07,210 It's like Columbus finding America. 204 00:09:08,751 --> 00:09:11,335 Well, I'll accept that answer as something really positive 205 00:09:11,335 --> 00:09:12,626 in a Carl kind of way. 206 00:09:13,793 --> 00:09:16,085 I just want to address the crisis real quick. 207 00:09:16,085 --> 00:09:19,251 Okay, the outside is not gonna pass the city code still. 208 00:09:19,251 --> 00:09:21,251 They're gonna be very pleased, I will say that. 209 00:09:21,251 --> 00:09:23,710 When they come back, they're gonna see a huge difference. 210 00:09:23,710 --> 00:09:26,293 And we got rid of 10 dumpsters, which we did. 211 00:09:26,293 --> 00:09:27,793 That's impressive to them. Okay. 212 00:09:27,793 --> 00:09:29,126 You have a lotta boxes, 213 00:09:29,126 --> 00:09:30,251 as you can see- - Yes. 214 00:09:30,251 --> 00:09:31,501 That you're gonna have to go through. 215 00:09:31,501 --> 00:09:32,918 [Carl] Yeah. 216 00:09:32,918 --> 00:09:34,376 [Cory] But all your important papers, your books, 217 00:09:34,376 --> 00:09:36,668 your clothing, everything you wanted saved is here. 218 00:09:37,918 --> 00:09:41,043 The bedroom is something that we were able to tackle, 219 00:09:41,043 --> 00:09:42,585 thankfully. 220 00:09:42,585 --> 00:09:44,335 A place for you to rest and lay your head. 221 00:09:44,335 --> 00:09:46,251 - [Carl] Thank you. - You wanna check it out? 222 00:09:46,251 --> 00:09:47,585 - Yes ma'am. - Alright. 223 00:09:50,418 --> 00:09:52,085 What is this? 224 00:09:52,085 --> 00:09:53,960 [group laughs] 225 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:54,835 My God. 226 00:09:56,876 --> 00:09:58,418 [Carolina] Jump on it! 227 00:09:58,418 --> 00:10:00,001 Whoo-hoo! - Oh man, 228 00:10:00,001 --> 00:10:02,168 that's the greatest thing I've had in over 35 years here. 229 00:10:02,168 --> 00:10:06,210 It feels like I'm in a Hoarder's Hyatt, Effel Tower. 230 00:10:09,585 --> 00:10:12,418 I feel like I'm living in a real world now. 231 00:10:12,418 --> 00:10:15,960 I was at war with myself. I was at war with society. 232 00:10:17,293 --> 00:10:18,876 Everything was negative. 233 00:10:18,876 --> 00:10:22,626 And now I feel like there's a positive freedom 234 00:10:22,626 --> 00:10:25,418 here at this property that I can come to. 235 00:10:25,418 --> 00:10:26,710 My new home! - Whoo-hoo! 236 00:10:28,418 --> 00:10:30,668 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 237 00:10:30,668 --> 00:10:32,251 [group laughs] 238 00:10:32,251 --> 00:10:34,918 [gentle music] 239 00:10:56,585 --> 00:10:58,668 [gentle somber music] 240 00:11:07,668 --> 00:11:08,876 - Hello there, Carl. - Look who's here. 241 00:11:08,876 --> 00:11:10,126 I'm Dr. David Tolin. 242 00:11:10,126 --> 00:11:12,460 I'm a clinical psychologist, and I specialize 243 00:11:12,460 --> 00:11:15,085 in the study and treatment of hoarding disorder. 244 00:11:15,085 --> 00:11:16,751 Long time. - Yes, it is. 245 00:11:16,751 --> 00:11:18,126 - Very long time. - God bless you. 246 00:11:18,126 --> 00:11:19,960 God bless you for the day. - Nice to see you again. 247 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,085 I haven't seen you in a long time. 248 00:11:21,085 --> 00:11:22,043 Yeah. 249 00:11:22,043 --> 00:11:24,001 It's been years since I visited Carl. 250 00:11:24,001 --> 00:11:25,960 And so I'm really looking forward to 251 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,085 seeing how he's doing. 252 00:11:27,918 --> 00:11:30,460 So when we left- - Yes. 253 00:11:30,460 --> 00:11:32,210 - The last time around. - Yes. 254 00:11:33,876 --> 00:11:37,001 We hadn't gotten a whole lotta stuff out of the house. 255 00:11:37,001 --> 00:11:39,418 We did get a lotta stuff in boxes. 256 00:11:39,418 --> 00:11:42,960 Hopefully you were safer, and we got you a bedroom 257 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,585 that was cleared out, and a new bed and things like that. 258 00:11:45,585 --> 00:11:47,376 Well, I appreciate what you did. 259 00:11:47,376 --> 00:11:51,293 It was a big improvement to get started, everything. 260 00:11:51,293 --> 00:11:53,585 And I tried to keep it up after you left. 261 00:11:53,585 --> 00:11:55,043 Great. 262 00:11:55,043 --> 00:11:57,626 But I had, still had those operations pending. 263 00:11:57,626 --> 00:11:58,835 - Yeah. - That I had to have. 264 00:11:58,835 --> 00:12:00,168 - I remember those. - Yeah. 265 00:12:00,168 --> 00:12:02,376 So it sort of started holding me back again. 266 00:12:03,918 --> 00:12:07,251 [gentle somber music] 267 00:12:11,668 --> 00:12:13,876 There's been so much long-time recovery, 268 00:12:14,751 --> 00:12:15,918 I've had a hard time trying, 269 00:12:16,043 --> 00:12:18,085 keeping up the good job that you helped me with. 270 00:12:18,085 --> 00:12:18,918 'Cause I wanted to do that. 271 00:12:18,918 --> 00:12:20,501 - Yeah. - I really did. 272 00:12:20,501 --> 00:12:22,418 But it sounds like it's just been hard, medically, 273 00:12:22,418 --> 00:12:23,710 to do. - Yes, it has. 274 00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:25,626 - Yeah. - Physically and everything. 275 00:12:25,626 --> 00:12:28,751 [deep gentle music] 276 00:12:34,001 --> 00:12:35,460 Hi, Michelle. Nice to see you. 277 00:12:35,460 --> 00:12:36,668 - You too. - Long time. 278 00:12:36,668 --> 00:12:39,043 Please, pull up a milk carton. 279 00:12:39,043 --> 00:12:40,293 Yes. 280 00:12:40,293 --> 00:12:42,085 Michelle, do you know anything about 281 00:12:42,085 --> 00:12:45,293 how the hoarding behavior has been since we were last here? 282 00:12:45,293 --> 00:12:48,293 [Michelle] Well, the yard looks like 283 00:12:48,293 --> 00:12:50,293 you're back at it, Carl. 284 00:12:50,293 --> 00:12:52,585 Yeah, I got back at it a little bit. 285 00:12:52,585 --> 00:12:53,710 Yeah, a little bit, 286 00:12:53,710 --> 00:12:55,001 little bit. - And everything. 287 00:12:55,126 --> 00:12:57,001 I guess it's just, it's hard to break loose from it, 288 00:12:58,418 --> 00:13:01,751 everything, but you know, just brought in things that, 289 00:13:01,751 --> 00:13:03,918 that are not difficult to move around. 290 00:13:03,918 --> 00:13:05,543 Yeah, and everything, but. 291 00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:10,585 I did move away since cleanup, 292 00:13:10,585 --> 00:13:13,668 and so I haven't really seen Carl as much as I used to. 293 00:13:13,668 --> 00:13:15,751 I do keep in touch with him. 294 00:13:15,751 --> 00:13:18,251 He looks more frail than I remember. 295 00:13:18,251 --> 00:13:23,210 And, seeing him with a cane and his arm in a sling, 296 00:13:24,085 --> 00:13:26,585 you know, it's concerning. 297 00:13:26,585 --> 00:13:28,210 I don't like seeing him like that. 298 00:13:30,835 --> 00:13:32,460 So, because you're in a wheelchair, 299 00:13:32,460 --> 00:13:35,168 I think it's probably best that you not join us, 300 00:13:35,168 --> 00:13:37,585 but would it be okay if Michelle and I 301 00:13:37,585 --> 00:13:40,710 took a look inside the house to see how things are doing? 302 00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:41,835 Yeah, you can. 303 00:13:41,835 --> 00:13:42,960 You know, I mean- - Okay. 304 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,585 You can walk around. 305 00:13:44,585 --> 00:13:47,085 So why don't we go in and take a look, see how it looks. 306 00:13:47,085 --> 00:13:48,418 - Yeah. - And then we'll come out 307 00:13:48,418 --> 00:13:49,751 and we'll talk about what the implications are. 308 00:13:49,751 --> 00:13:50,751 - That's fine. - We'll talk about 309 00:13:50,751 --> 00:13:51,751 where we might need to go from here. 310 00:13:51,751 --> 00:13:53,460 That's fine, appreciate it. 311 00:13:53,460 --> 00:13:56,460 [gentle somber music] 312 00:13:58,626 --> 00:13:59,626 Okay. 313 00:13:59,626 --> 00:14:01,251 [Michelle] This, oh God. 314 00:14:04,085 --> 00:14:07,918 Seeing Carl's house for the first time since cleanup, 315 00:14:07,918 --> 00:14:10,876 I was, I don't know if I was optimistic 316 00:14:10,876 --> 00:14:12,751 or I just didn't really think about it, 317 00:14:12,751 --> 00:14:15,543 but I had assumed it would have stayed clear, 318 00:14:15,543 --> 00:14:19,418 especially since he hadn't been in the house often. 319 00:14:19,418 --> 00:14:21,418 I remember this was cleared out, 320 00:14:21,418 --> 00:14:24,918 and we had at least a way to walk to the bedroom. 321 00:14:24,918 --> 00:14:26,751 Any sense of what's going on here? 322 00:14:26,751 --> 00:14:27,960 This is just Carl. 323 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,168 - Just Carl. - That's what's happening. 324 00:14:29,168 --> 00:14:32,210 I mean, obviously this is just who he is. 325 00:14:32,210 --> 00:14:35,210 I don't really think I had any expectation, 326 00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:40,251 but definitely this was not in my mind. 327 00:14:41,376 --> 00:14:43,626 When I walk into Carl's house, my heart sinks, 328 00:14:43,626 --> 00:14:46,835 because I know we made a lotta progress in that front room, 329 00:14:46,835 --> 00:14:48,335 in the living room. 330 00:14:48,335 --> 00:14:52,001 And, to look at it now, it looks like we were never there. 331 00:14:52,001 --> 00:14:54,043 The clutter has clearly taken over. 332 00:14:55,751 --> 00:14:58,335 Well, we left Carl with a nice bedroom. 333 00:14:58,335 --> 00:14:59,876 - Oh. - If memory serves. 334 00:14:59,876 --> 00:15:02,543 Can we take a look at that? - [sighs] Yes. 335 00:15:02,543 --> 00:15:04,585 Alright. Let's see what's going on there. 336 00:15:04,585 --> 00:15:07,460 [soft tense music] 337 00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:12,043 Oh, my gosh. 338 00:15:13,418 --> 00:15:15,501 [David] I can see you're having a response to this. 339 00:15:15,501 --> 00:15:20,460 I get emotional in this situation because it's, 340 00:15:21,418 --> 00:15:24,460 one, hard to see someone live this way. 341 00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:28,251 But on top of that, it's, I know it's a mental health issue 342 00:15:28,251 --> 00:15:31,918 and I can only imagine how much he's struggling internally. 343 00:15:31,918 --> 00:15:34,251 And I get a little overwhelmed with it all, 344 00:15:34,251 --> 00:15:39,126 to just imagine what it would be like to, 345 00:15:39,126 --> 00:15:41,585 whatever turmoil's going on inside 346 00:15:41,585 --> 00:15:44,876 that expresses itself in what's happening 347 00:15:44,876 --> 00:15:46,293 in the yard and in the house. 348 00:15:47,210 --> 00:15:49,168 Let's go out and talk about it. 349 00:15:49,168 --> 00:15:51,918 See if we can get an understanding of what Carl wants 350 00:15:51,918 --> 00:15:54,543 and needs, and then see if we can put together 351 00:15:54,543 --> 00:15:57,793 some kind of a game plan for how we're gonna get him there. 352 00:15:57,793 --> 00:15:59,710 - Okay. - Okay. 353 00:15:59,710 --> 00:16:00,960 [tense somber music] 354 00:16:14,668 --> 00:16:18,335 I'm Carl, always a hoarder and still a hoarder. 355 00:16:19,751 --> 00:16:21,585 When the cleanup left, it's been a lot better 356 00:16:21,585 --> 00:16:24,085 'cause there's no hoarding in there. 357 00:16:24,085 --> 00:16:27,001 I haven't been doing any hoarding in there. 358 00:16:27,001 --> 00:16:28,585 It may look like it, 359 00:16:28,585 --> 00:16:32,585 but it's been a lot better to get around and find things. 360 00:16:33,626 --> 00:16:35,751 I don't think Carl is in a better place now 361 00:16:35,751 --> 00:16:37,126 than he was when we left him. 362 00:16:37,126 --> 00:16:39,501 In fact, given his physical health, 363 00:16:39,501 --> 00:16:41,960 I think he's in a worse place than he was. 364 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,251 [gentle somber music] 365 00:16:53,126 --> 00:16:54,668 Oh goodness, Carl. 366 00:16:55,835 --> 00:16:57,210 So what'd you think? 367 00:16:57,210 --> 00:17:01,085 Carl, where do you get all this stuff? 368 00:17:01,085 --> 00:17:03,085 I don't know how you did this, Carl. 369 00:17:03,085 --> 00:17:04,710 Well, there's still room to walk in there. 370 00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:08,085 [Michelle] [sighs] Barely. And your bedroom. 371 00:17:08,085 --> 00:17:09,960 Well, I had to put those books 372 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:11,751 and all that stuff somewhere. 373 00:17:11,751 --> 00:17:14,501 The impression that I get Carl, is that the behavior, 374 00:17:14,501 --> 00:17:16,876 the hoarding behavior is still outta control. 375 00:17:16,876 --> 00:17:17,918 Would you agree with that? 376 00:17:17,918 --> 00:17:22,501 It may still be a problem, 377 00:17:22,501 --> 00:17:26,543 but I think it's been a little bit better, to me, you know? 378 00:17:26,543 --> 00:17:28,251 Yeah, I think Michelle's having a reaction 379 00:17:28,251 --> 00:17:29,376 to what you're saying. 380 00:17:29,376 --> 00:17:32,168 I'm just taking it in. It's fine. 381 00:17:32,168 --> 00:17:34,418 What do you think about what Carl's saying? 382 00:17:35,501 --> 00:17:38,251 [sniffles] That's what Carl does. 383 00:17:38,251 --> 00:17:40,918 - Uh-huh. - I [sniffles]. 384 00:17:40,918 --> 00:17:42,960 Well, I am gonna stop it. 385 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,918 I mean, I ain't gonna continue. I wanna get myself better. 386 00:17:46,918 --> 00:17:47,751 You know? 387 00:17:50,751 --> 00:17:53,960 I can't handle this guy, man. I can't handle him. 388 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,085 [Michelle sniffles] 389 00:18:00,085 --> 00:18:02,293 He's going to have to make a promise that, 390 00:18:03,501 --> 00:18:05,501 not to stop hoarding, because that's part of him. 391 00:18:05,501 --> 00:18:08,043 He can't, at this age, he will not stop. 392 00:18:08,043 --> 00:18:09,251 He needs to cut back. 393 00:18:09,251 --> 00:18:11,376 And if he doesn't cut back, 394 00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:16,210 I'm not willing to put forth any more help in that regard. 395 00:18:18,210 --> 00:18:19,626 Let me make sure we're all on the same page 396 00:18:19,626 --> 00:18:22,918 about where things have been and where things are going. 397 00:18:22,918 --> 00:18:24,251 So, you moved outta this house 398 00:18:24,251 --> 00:18:27,043 and you moved into an extended stay hotel. 399 00:18:27,043 --> 00:18:31,085 My understanding is that your acquiring and saving behavior 400 00:18:31,085 --> 00:18:33,501 was such that the extended stay hotel 401 00:18:33,501 --> 00:18:35,668 asked you not to come back. 402 00:18:35,668 --> 00:18:37,418 You're now staying in the nursing home 403 00:18:37,418 --> 00:18:38,668 because of your injuries, 404 00:18:38,668 --> 00:18:39,793 but you're going to be discharged 405 00:18:39,793 --> 00:18:40,751 from the nursing home. 406 00:18:40,751 --> 00:18:42,376 [Carl] Yeah. 407 00:18:42,376 --> 00:18:44,376 So what happens after you're discharged? 408 00:18:44,376 --> 00:18:45,876 Well, I don't know where to go 409 00:18:45,876 --> 00:18:49,293 because the doctor has said that I still can't be on my own. 410 00:18:49,293 --> 00:18:52,543 And he has, he wants me to get extra therapy 411 00:18:52,543 --> 00:18:54,876 for this arm here so I can start moving it 412 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:56,210 the other way around. 413 00:18:56,210 --> 00:18:59,085 It sounds like the sort of imminent crisis 414 00:18:59,085 --> 00:19:02,501 is that the nursing home is about to discharge 415 00:19:02,501 --> 00:19:06,085 an injured, older gentlemen to the streets. 416 00:19:06,085 --> 00:19:08,043 This is where Adult Protective Services 417 00:19:08,043 --> 00:19:09,626 probably comes into play. 418 00:19:10,585 --> 00:19:12,585 It's easy to demonize state services 419 00:19:12,585 --> 00:19:14,710 and think that they're the bad guy or they're the boogeyman, 420 00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:15,793 but they're not. 421 00:19:15,793 --> 00:19:17,460 Those are the people who can put you in touch 422 00:19:17,460 --> 00:19:19,001 with the help that you need. 423 00:19:19,001 --> 00:19:21,585 And right now, Carl really seems like he needs it. 424 00:19:21,585 --> 00:19:24,043 Believe me, if anybody's got a better idea than this, 425 00:19:24,043 --> 00:19:25,585 please let me know. 426 00:19:25,585 --> 00:19:27,918 But I'm wondering whether Adult Protective Services 427 00:19:27,918 --> 00:19:29,585 needs to help out. 428 00:19:29,585 --> 00:19:33,668 Well, I'm not for Adult Protective Services, everything. 429 00:19:33,668 --> 00:19:37,793 And I think we can do it on our own a lot better, 430 00:19:37,793 --> 00:19:39,043 a lot more peaceful. 431 00:19:39,043 --> 00:19:40,335 I don't think you can, Carl. 432 00:19:40,335 --> 00:19:41,835 Well, I think we can. 433 00:19:41,835 --> 00:19:44,668 I don't you can. I think you're facing homelessness. 434 00:19:46,835 --> 00:19:49,085 Carl, could you speak a little bit to that resistance? 435 00:19:49,085 --> 00:19:51,543 What would make you wanna resist their help? 436 00:19:52,793 --> 00:19:55,585 It's not really a workable thing for certain people. 437 00:19:55,585 --> 00:19:58,418 Carl, let's kinda face the facts here, right? 438 00:19:58,418 --> 00:20:00,418 What are the facts that we know? 439 00:20:00,418 --> 00:20:02,876 You're about to be discharged from the nursing home. 440 00:20:02,876 --> 00:20:06,543 Your doctor has told you you can't be alone. 441 00:20:06,543 --> 00:20:09,585 You have no safe place to go. 442 00:20:09,585 --> 00:20:11,876 I mean, what else are we supposed to do here? 443 00:20:11,876 --> 00:20:13,418 Yeah, I know. 444 00:20:13,418 --> 00:20:18,460 My opinion on Adult Protective Services, 445 00:20:19,751 --> 00:20:21,710 I think it's an option. 446 00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:24,626 But can I tell Carl, you have to do this? No. 447 00:20:24,626 --> 00:20:27,126 Am I comfortable saying that to him? No. 448 00:20:27,126 --> 00:20:29,585 The best I can do is encourage him to 449 00:20:31,793 --> 00:20:34,876 get help in any way it's available. 450 00:20:38,376 --> 00:20:41,585 I would like you to really think about 451 00:20:41,585 --> 00:20:45,001 the Adult Protective Services option. 452 00:20:45,001 --> 00:20:46,585 At least think about it. 453 00:20:46,585 --> 00:20:49,085 And Carl, I'm going to encourage you 454 00:20:49,085 --> 00:20:51,585 to take whatever help you can get. 455 00:20:51,585 --> 00:20:53,668 It's not going to be comfortable. 456 00:20:54,418 --> 00:20:56,335 This is comfortable for you. 457 00:20:56,335 --> 00:20:57,210 Right. 458 00:20:57,210 --> 00:20:58,668 Anything else is not. 459 00:20:58,668 --> 00:21:01,168 You're going to have to make some changes 460 00:21:01,168 --> 00:21:03,793 that you may not like, but you need help. 461 00:21:05,585 --> 00:21:08,168 And I can't be the only one. 462 00:21:08,168 --> 00:21:09,418 Yeah, I know that. 463 00:21:09,418 --> 00:21:11,001 But you're gonna have to trust other people. 464 00:21:11,001 --> 00:21:12,626 It's hard. I know. 465 00:21:14,085 --> 00:21:16,626 But, the only way you can find out 466 00:21:16,626 --> 00:21:19,251 if something's good or bad for you is by trying. 467 00:21:19,251 --> 00:21:21,418 [chuckles] Yeah, that's true, you know. 468 00:21:22,626 --> 00:21:25,168 If Carl and his friends and his neighbors 469 00:21:25,168 --> 00:21:29,251 and his attorneys can get a good treatment team in place, 470 00:21:29,251 --> 00:21:32,335 that can supply him with wellness checks. 471 00:21:32,335 --> 00:21:34,543 It can supply him with mental health treatment. 472 00:21:34,543 --> 00:21:36,835 It can supply him with physical rehab. 473 00:21:36,835 --> 00:21:38,835 It can make sure that he's got a stable 474 00:21:38,835 --> 00:21:40,668 and safe place to live. 475 00:21:40,668 --> 00:21:42,335 But you gotta have the team in place. 476 00:21:42,335 --> 00:21:44,585 You can't do this yourself. 477 00:21:44,585 --> 00:21:46,876 And Carl certainly can't do this himself. 478 00:21:46,876 --> 00:21:48,710 Hi, I was hoping to speak with somebody 479 00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:51,168 in Adult Protective Services. 480 00:21:51,168 --> 00:21:52,960 Yeah, I'd like to make a report, please. 481 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,085 [gentle somber swoosh] 482 00:21:57,085 --> 00:22:00,960 [gentle melancholic music] 483 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,668 Well, Carl, Michelle, this is where I leave you. 484 00:22:03,668 --> 00:22:06,418 I will say it's always lovely to see you, Carl, 485 00:22:06,418 --> 00:22:08,251 and you Michelle, and I'm very happy 486 00:22:08,251 --> 00:22:11,043 to be able to talk with you again. 487 00:22:11,043 --> 00:22:13,793 I will say I'm leaving today a little worried about you, 488 00:22:13,793 --> 00:22:15,460 but I hope that we're going to be able 489 00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:16,710 to put some things in place 490 00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:18,376 that will get you the help that you need. 491 00:22:18,376 --> 00:22:19,418 Carl, best of luck to you. 492 00:22:19,418 --> 00:22:21,085 Alright. - Yes, sir. 493 00:22:21,085 --> 00:22:22,043 Thank you for coming back. - Michelle, good seeing you. 494 00:22:22,043 --> 00:22:23,001 Appreciate it. 495 00:22:23,001 --> 00:22:24,460 Alright. Best of luck. 496 00:22:28,543 --> 00:22:31,501 [gentle guitar music] 497 00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:43,626 I'm Eric. I'm a retired journalist, 498 00:22:43,626 --> 00:22:46,168 flight attendant, electronic technician, 499 00:22:46,168 --> 00:22:50,376 [gentle guitar music continues] 500 00:22:51,335 --> 00:22:53,751 and I'm a hoarder. 501 00:22:53,751 --> 00:22:55,876 [alarming music] 502 00:22:55,876 --> 00:22:57,460 When you walk through the front door, 503 00:22:57,460 --> 00:23:00,460 you're hit with unopened boxes of things I've bought 504 00:23:00,460 --> 00:23:02,126 that I haven't even opened yet. 505 00:23:02,126 --> 00:23:04,251 It's just a very helter-skelter, 506 00:23:04,251 --> 00:23:06,585 higgly-piggly look to everything. 507 00:23:06,585 --> 00:23:08,585 It's just all junked up. 508 00:23:08,585 --> 00:23:10,418 You get into the kitchen, 509 00:23:10,418 --> 00:23:12,335 the kitchen was de-hoarded once, 510 00:23:12,335 --> 00:23:14,793 but give me five days 511 00:23:14,793 --> 00:23:17,126 and I can hoard it up real quick. 512 00:23:17,126 --> 00:23:19,751 [alarming music continues] 513 00:23:19,751 --> 00:23:22,376 I'm a master hoarder, so I know how to hoard. 514 00:23:22,376 --> 00:23:25,793 [alarming music continues] 515 00:23:28,918 --> 00:23:31,918 [somber piano music] 516 00:23:35,751 --> 00:23:39,751 I was starting to suffer from insomnia, so I couldn't sleep. 517 00:23:39,751 --> 00:23:43,751 I would spend five to six hours a day online shopping, 518 00:23:43,751 --> 00:23:46,043 looking for things to buy. 519 00:23:46,043 --> 00:23:49,585 It just became a habit of mine to see what was out there. 520 00:23:49,585 --> 00:23:53,585 [somber piano music continues] 521 00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:03,751 I feel like I'm drowning, like I can't breathe 522 00:24:03,751 --> 00:24:06,543 because it's taking away my oxygen. 523 00:24:06,543 --> 00:24:08,918 It takes away from my quality of life. 524 00:24:08,918 --> 00:24:13,835 I just feel like I'm chained, I'm enslaved to this. 525 00:24:15,001 --> 00:24:18,460 [alarming music fades] 526 00:24:22,251 --> 00:24:23,585 - Good morning. - Good morning. 527 00:24:23,585 --> 00:24:26,251 How you doing? - Hi, Eric. I'm Dr. Zasio. 528 00:24:26,251 --> 00:24:27,418 I'm Dr. Robin Zasio. 529 00:24:27,418 --> 00:24:29,210 I'm a licensed Clinical Psychologist, 530 00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:31,668 and I specialize in helping people struggling 531 00:24:31,668 --> 00:24:35,043 with anxiety disorders, which includes hoarding behaviors. 532 00:24:35,043 --> 00:24:39,085 I'm curious, you have a wheelchair on your porch? 533 00:24:39,085 --> 00:24:41,668 - Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. - What's that for? 534 00:24:41,668 --> 00:24:43,001 That was my wife's. 535 00:24:43,918 --> 00:24:46,168 Sylvie was my wife for 30 years. 536 00:24:47,793 --> 00:24:50,668 She was the love of my life. 537 00:24:50,668 --> 00:24:54,043 [gentle pulsating music] 538 00:24:57,501 --> 00:25:00,585 She had a very rare cancer called ependymomas. 539 00:25:00,585 --> 00:25:03,626 There were tumors that grew on her spinal cord. 540 00:25:03,626 --> 00:25:06,043 Eventually they metastasized to her lungs, 541 00:25:07,376 --> 00:25:09,835 and that's what caused her to pass away. 542 00:25:09,835 --> 00:25:11,751 [Dr. Zasio] And how long ago was this? 543 00:25:11,751 --> 00:25:14,710 Well, she passed away a year and a half ago. 544 00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:17,251 And so you were her primary caregiver? 545 00:25:17,251 --> 00:25:18,251 - Yes. - Okay. 546 00:25:18,251 --> 00:25:19,543 - Yeah. - Okay. 547 00:25:19,543 --> 00:25:22,543 After Sylvie lost her battle with cancer, 548 00:25:22,543 --> 00:25:24,210 my hoarding went into overdrive. 549 00:25:24,210 --> 00:25:28,585 I just had a overwhelming urge to fill up this empty house 550 00:25:28,585 --> 00:25:30,835 with things that made me feel good, 551 00:25:30,835 --> 00:25:33,751 that made me feel like I had some control over. 552 00:25:33,751 --> 00:25:36,710 She was, sort of, my bond to reality. 553 00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:40,543 She was a anchor to my wayward ways 554 00:25:40,543 --> 00:25:43,251 as far as things I would buy. 555 00:25:43,251 --> 00:25:45,918 She said, "We don't need that. We don't need that." 556 00:25:46,835 --> 00:25:50,126 She always kept me in check. 557 00:25:50,126 --> 00:25:52,460 Without her here, it's just harder 558 00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:55,418 to make those kind of decisions that 559 00:25:55,418 --> 00:25:57,085 I don't need this, 560 00:25:58,251 --> 00:26:02,335 and I don't know how to really accept her being gone. 561 00:26:02,335 --> 00:26:06,585 And so I think I clutter up my house 562 00:26:06,585 --> 00:26:11,585 and my life just to assuage my emotions. 563 00:26:12,626 --> 00:26:15,293 It is very common that individuals 564 00:26:15,293 --> 00:26:18,585 who are in this situation and dealing with loss, 565 00:26:18,585 --> 00:26:22,251 that they turn to shopping and acquiring 566 00:26:22,251 --> 00:26:23,668 as a coping mechanism. 567 00:26:23,668 --> 00:26:26,710 Those hoarding behaviors has to be dealt with. 568 00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:30,085 This is never about a cleanup process. 569 00:26:30,085 --> 00:26:34,210 It's about dealing with what has led to this problem. 570 00:26:34,210 --> 00:26:37,001 [somber piano music] 571 00:26:37,001 --> 00:26:39,710 [reverse beeps] 572 00:26:41,668 --> 00:26:44,376 [dramatic music] 573 00:26:49,251 --> 00:26:50,751 - Good morning, everybody. - Good morning. 574 00:26:50,751 --> 00:26:52,293 - Morning. - Good morning. 575 00:26:52,293 --> 00:26:54,751 I'm Dorothy Breininger, Professional Organizing Expert, 576 00:26:54,751 --> 00:26:56,585 and I specialize in hoarding. 577 00:26:56,585 --> 00:26:58,085 Good to see you. 578 00:26:58,085 --> 00:27:01,626 There are 18 of us here today for a very good reason. 579 00:27:01,626 --> 00:27:04,085 This is about honoring Sylvie. 580 00:27:04,085 --> 00:27:05,126 Yes. Yes. 581 00:27:05,126 --> 00:27:08,710 And reclaiming your life, what you want. 582 00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:10,626 And that all starts with the stuff. 583 00:27:10,626 --> 00:27:11,751 [Eric] The stuff. 584 00:27:11,751 --> 00:27:13,168 And then goes through the doctor, 585 00:27:13,168 --> 00:27:15,251 because we've gotta not just declutter the house, 586 00:27:15,251 --> 00:27:17,626 but maybe what's in your head a little bit. 587 00:27:17,626 --> 00:27:20,085 Oh, that's difficult stuff to hoard. 588 00:27:20,085 --> 00:27:21,751 That's been collecting for some time. 589 00:27:21,751 --> 00:27:25,251 That's it. So let's head that way to the front door. 590 00:27:25,251 --> 00:27:28,043 [energetic music] 591 00:27:41,585 --> 00:27:43,001 [Eric] You gonna pick out piece by piece? 592 00:27:43,001 --> 00:27:44,835 Well, I just wanna see if you can 593 00:27:44,835 --> 00:27:47,043 start making some decisions. 594 00:27:47,751 --> 00:27:49,501 How about these? 595 00:27:49,501 --> 00:27:50,668 Oh, sweatpants. 596 00:27:50,668 --> 00:27:52,293 You always gotta have your sweatpants. 597 00:27:52,293 --> 00:27:55,210 Okay. So, we're gonna keep everything that's in this box 598 00:27:55,210 --> 00:27:56,793 and everything that's in this box, too? 599 00:27:56,793 --> 00:28:00,626 That's the tragedy of all of this. 600 00:28:00,626 --> 00:28:03,126 I've become very attached to all my clothes. 601 00:28:03,126 --> 00:28:04,793 I mean, I'm gonna say, "Throw it all away." 602 00:28:04,793 --> 00:28:06,460 Then I'm gonna sit around naked all day 603 00:28:06,460 --> 00:28:08,085 in my underwear and tank top? 604 00:28:08,085 --> 00:28:11,085 [animated music] 605 00:28:11,085 --> 00:28:13,543 You know we don't want you to get rid of everything, 606 00:28:13,543 --> 00:28:14,918 but you have thousands and thousands- 607 00:28:14,918 --> 00:28:16,168 - I know that. - You probably have 608 00:28:16,168 --> 00:28:17,293 well over 10,000. - You're not even telling me 609 00:28:17,293 --> 00:28:18,501 anything I don't know. 610 00:28:18,501 --> 00:28:20,168 - Okay. - I know I've got thousands 611 00:28:20,168 --> 00:28:22,001 and thousands of pieces of clothing, 612 00:28:22,001 --> 00:28:24,918 but I'm not a man who can make quick decisions. 613 00:28:26,335 --> 00:28:29,668 That's why we're here is to help you change that pattern. 614 00:28:29,668 --> 00:28:31,626 Well, I'm not feeling any change. 615 00:28:31,626 --> 00:28:33,293 There's no hope and change here right now. 616 00:28:33,293 --> 00:28:36,001 But have you made a decision to change? 617 00:28:36,001 --> 00:28:37,293 Because what I hear you saying is, 618 00:28:37,293 --> 00:28:38,293 "This is who I am 619 00:28:38,293 --> 00:28:39,918 and you want me to be somebody different." 620 00:28:39,918 --> 00:28:42,460 Yeah, I want to be able to change, 621 00:28:42,460 --> 00:28:46,251 but I don't find the ability to change within me right now. 622 00:28:46,251 --> 00:28:47,335 I just don't. 623 00:28:47,335 --> 00:28:48,918 We're gonna give you a little bit of a break. 624 00:28:48,918 --> 00:28:51,710 Maybe if you can, pluck through some of this stuff, 625 00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:53,626 see if you can make some decisions. 626 00:28:53,626 --> 00:28:54,460 - Alright. - Okay. Alright. 627 00:28:54,460 --> 00:28:55,418 I appreciate you. 628 00:28:55,418 --> 00:28:57,376 - Drop back by. - I will. 629 00:28:57,376 --> 00:28:59,835 [edgy music] 630 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,418 You see that couch back there? 631 00:29:05,418 --> 00:29:06,751 That's a thousand dollar couch. 632 00:29:06,751 --> 00:29:08,418 I just bought that. 633 00:29:08,418 --> 00:29:09,626 What is that doing in there? 634 00:29:09,626 --> 00:29:11,293 [Dorothy] I have no idea. 635 00:29:11,293 --> 00:29:13,501 That's unacceptable. That really is. 636 00:29:14,543 --> 00:29:15,460 Well, that is on you. 637 00:29:15,460 --> 00:29:17,251 I know, and I apologize. 638 00:29:17,251 --> 00:29:20,501 I pointed out to get rid of some furniture 639 00:29:20,501 --> 00:29:25,585 and it got thrown away and it caused a big ruckus. 640 00:29:25,585 --> 00:29:26,751 The thing is, I don't know 641 00:29:26,751 --> 00:29:28,251 what else is gonna get thrown in there, 642 00:29:28,251 --> 00:29:30,293 because people are assuming things they shouldn't assume. 643 00:29:30,293 --> 00:29:32,960 I didn't know it was going in the actual trash. 644 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,835 I just thought it was going somewhere else 645 00:29:34,835 --> 00:29:37,751 and we were gonna deal with it in an auction 646 00:29:37,751 --> 00:29:39,335 or get rid of it or something like that. 647 00:29:39,335 --> 00:29:41,460 I didn't know it was going in the trash. 648 00:29:45,710 --> 00:29:48,585 I didn't give any permission to anyone 649 00:29:48,585 --> 00:29:50,085 to throw anything away. 650 00:29:50,085 --> 00:29:51,751 I mean, I can do this myself. 651 00:29:51,751 --> 00:29:53,668 I can throw this all in the trash 652 00:29:53,668 --> 00:29:55,085 if that's what I want to do. 653 00:29:55,085 --> 00:29:56,793 When Eric was upset this morning, 654 00:29:56,793 --> 00:29:59,335 that was a stepping stone 655 00:29:59,335 --> 00:30:01,835 for him getting in touch with his feelings. 656 00:30:01,835 --> 00:30:04,335 [Laurie] I'm sorry that that was on me, okay? 657 00:30:04,335 --> 00:30:07,043 - It's alright. - I'm sorry. I really am. 658 00:30:07,043 --> 00:30:09,626 So, it was actually healthy for him to get angry. 659 00:30:09,626 --> 00:30:12,001 And I'm sorry that he was angry, 660 00:30:12,001 --> 00:30:16,251 but it was a very cathartic process for him 661 00:30:16,251 --> 00:30:19,585 to begin the grieving process with Sylvie. 662 00:30:19,585 --> 00:30:21,085 At this point he said 663 00:30:21,085 --> 00:30:23,585 he needed to take a break and go inside. 664 00:30:23,585 --> 00:30:26,085 [tense music] 665 00:30:29,918 --> 00:30:31,001 I don't know if you remember some 666 00:30:31,001 --> 00:30:32,918 of the conversations we had, 667 00:30:32,918 --> 00:30:34,751 but I talked about this very thing. 668 00:30:34,751 --> 00:30:37,501 That this is what I was most worried about, 669 00:30:37,501 --> 00:30:40,960 was that the stuff was 670 00:30:41,876 --> 00:30:44,501 covering up all that pain. 671 00:30:44,501 --> 00:30:47,085 In order for you to get better, 672 00:30:47,085 --> 00:30:49,793 you're gonna have to feel these feelings. 673 00:30:49,793 --> 00:30:51,043 [Eric] All I could think about is 674 00:30:51,043 --> 00:30:53,210 that this place without Sylvie 675 00:30:53,210 --> 00:30:55,460 is just a house, it's not a home. 676 00:30:56,751 --> 00:30:58,585 It didn't feel like a home to me anymore. 677 00:30:58,585 --> 00:31:03,585 Like my stuff made me feel, was my replacement for Sylvie. 678 00:31:04,585 --> 00:31:07,626 And, you just can't- [sobbing] 679 00:31:09,751 --> 00:31:11,751 You just can't buy anything. 680 00:31:11,751 --> 00:31:14,418 [Eric sobbing] 681 00:31:19,418 --> 00:31:23,126 I don't know how to go on from here, I just don't. 682 00:31:23,126 --> 00:31:26,001 I just don't, because you empty this house, 683 00:31:27,335 --> 00:31:32,043 it'll just be one big echo chamber of my memories of her. 684 00:31:32,626 --> 00:31:35,293 [melancholy music] 685 00:31:36,168 --> 00:31:37,710 And I just miss her so much. 686 00:31:37,710 --> 00:31:41,085 I sit here and say, "Where's my Sylvie?" every night. 687 00:31:41,085 --> 00:31:42,418 "Where's my Sylvie?" 688 00:31:43,793 --> 00:31:46,293 And she's not here. She's not here. 689 00:31:48,085 --> 00:31:50,418 This conversation was probably the most 690 00:31:50,418 --> 00:31:55,501 powerful conversation he has had since Sylvie passed. 691 00:31:56,585 --> 00:31:58,001 - [Eric] Thank you, Dorothy. - You're welcome. 692 00:31:58,001 --> 00:31:59,543 You did a good one here. 693 00:31:59,543 --> 00:32:01,585 [Eric] Thanks for taking the time to talk 694 00:32:01,585 --> 00:32:02,876 and to come here to my house. 695 00:32:02,876 --> 00:32:04,126 [Dorothy] Oh my gosh. 696 00:32:04,126 --> 00:32:07,126 Thank you for really telling the truth today. 697 00:32:07,126 --> 00:32:08,710 I'm hoping that this will be the first step 698 00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:11,460 of his grieving process and build his confidence 699 00:32:11,460 --> 00:32:14,126 that even though it's gonna be painful, he can do it. 700 00:32:14,126 --> 00:32:16,918 [melancholy music fades] 701 00:32:20,918 --> 00:32:22,210 [upbeat music] 702 00:32:30,585 --> 00:32:32,085 After the discussion in the kitchen, 703 00:32:32,085 --> 00:32:34,001 we had our morning meeting 704 00:32:34,001 --> 00:32:38,210 and I saw a different Eric than the previous day. 705 00:32:38,626 --> 00:32:43,460 I feel very ashamed of what I'm expressing with my house. 706 00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:46,418 My house is supposed to be an expression of who I am. 707 00:32:46,418 --> 00:32:50,460 And my house did not express that at all. 708 00:32:50,460 --> 00:32:53,043 It expressed chaos. 709 00:32:53,043 --> 00:32:56,126 And it really made my wife sad. 710 00:32:56,126 --> 00:32:58,918 She saw it happening bit by bit, 711 00:32:58,918 --> 00:33:01,126 encroaching on the very thing that she loved, 712 00:33:01,126 --> 00:33:02,376 which was her home. 713 00:33:03,751 --> 00:33:06,543 And I tried to fill it up with stuff when she died, 714 00:33:06,543 --> 00:33:09,710 And in the process of her being ill and becoming bedridden. 715 00:33:11,335 --> 00:33:14,126 And it doesn't work, you can't replace a person with stuff, 716 00:33:14,126 --> 00:33:16,335 even if I'd call 'em treasures, they weren't treasures. 717 00:33:16,335 --> 00:33:18,418 She was the treasure of my life. 718 00:33:20,335 --> 00:33:23,418 I appreciate all that you're doing to help me realize 719 00:33:25,293 --> 00:33:27,418 what was taking place in my life. 720 00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:30,210 And it's a psychological warfare 721 00:33:30,210 --> 00:33:32,168 for me to go through all this. 722 00:33:32,168 --> 00:33:33,960 This needs to happen. 723 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,251 I want it to happen. 724 00:33:35,251 --> 00:33:37,168 I'm glad you're all participating in this 725 00:33:37,168 --> 00:33:39,335 and you have the heart to be here. 726 00:33:39,335 --> 00:33:41,626 Thank you for, you know, giving us 727 00:33:41,626 --> 00:33:45,376 the real landscape of how things are for you. 728 00:33:45,376 --> 00:33:48,710 And that matters, 'cause we all do care. 729 00:33:53,751 --> 00:33:56,293 [upbeat music] 730 00:33:57,668 --> 00:34:01,168 [Eric] Eh, just put that, keep that I guess. 731 00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:04,001 Coming at you. 732 00:34:04,001 --> 00:34:05,543 You think I should keep any of these? 733 00:34:05,543 --> 00:34:06,710 No, I do not. 734 00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:10,085 [upbeat music continues] 735 00:34:10,085 --> 00:34:12,460 The tag is still on it. 736 00:34:14,126 --> 00:34:15,168 [Helper] You wanna get that? 737 00:34:18,168 --> 00:34:21,335 [gentle piano music] 738 00:34:22,876 --> 00:34:26,418 Oh wow. My goodness. 739 00:34:26,418 --> 00:34:29,585 I'm just flabbergasted by what this room looks like 740 00:34:29,585 --> 00:34:31,918 compared to just a week ago at this time. 741 00:34:31,918 --> 00:34:33,001 It didn't look like this. 742 00:34:33,001 --> 00:34:35,960 And it's remake is remarkable. 743 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,751 [gentle piano music continues] 744 00:34:50,043 --> 00:34:53,751 I would just like to say, Sylvie, I love you 745 00:34:55,335 --> 00:34:59,293 and I hope this brings a smile to your face. 746 00:34:59,293 --> 00:35:03,460 I'm sure it does. And I just miss you. 747 00:35:05,543 --> 00:35:09,835 And I'm glad we had this chance to give your home back. 748 00:35:09,835 --> 00:35:13,918 And people can remember you in a better way, in a fond way. 749 00:35:13,918 --> 00:35:18,501 I am really concerned that Eric kept a lot of things, 750 00:35:18,501 --> 00:35:20,293 got rid of six tons worth of stuff, 751 00:35:20,293 --> 00:35:21,501 thank you very much. 752 00:35:21,501 --> 00:35:23,293 But you also have the equivalent 753 00:35:23,293 --> 00:35:25,585 of 3000 boxes still in the house. 754 00:35:25,585 --> 00:35:27,085 They're in the attic, they're in the sunroom, 755 00:35:27,085 --> 00:35:28,543 they're in the garage. 756 00:35:28,543 --> 00:35:32,543 What I'm most concerned about is when I leave. 757 00:35:32,543 --> 00:35:35,626 There are a lot of people right now giving him support 758 00:35:35,626 --> 00:35:38,793 and he is gonna be alone in this house. 759 00:35:40,251 --> 00:35:42,251 This is really when things are gonna kick in for him. 760 00:35:42,251 --> 00:35:44,376 He's gonna have to find the strength 761 00:35:44,376 --> 00:35:48,126 and the determination to not open up that computer 762 00:35:48,126 --> 00:35:50,835 and go to the web and start shopping. 763 00:35:51,835 --> 00:35:54,835 [contemplative music] 764 00:36:11,793 --> 00:36:16,543 [contemplative music fades] 765 00:36:17,460 --> 00:36:20,668 [gentle piano music] 766 00:36:29,001 --> 00:36:30,960 [knocking on door] 767 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,335 [Eric] Who's there? 768 00:36:32,335 --> 00:36:35,460 [Dr. Zasio] It's a secret pal from the past. 769 00:36:35,460 --> 00:36:37,251 I've heard that voice before. 770 00:36:37,251 --> 00:36:38,501 Good morning, Eric. 771 00:36:38,501 --> 00:36:39,710 Hi. Good morning. - How you doing? 772 00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:41,210 Good morning. It's nice to see you again. 773 00:36:41,210 --> 00:36:42,751 Long time no see. 774 00:36:42,751 --> 00:36:45,376 Just wanted to swing by and see how things are going. 775 00:36:45,376 --> 00:36:47,376 Well, they've been better, but- 776 00:36:47,376 --> 00:36:49,085 Okay. Can I come in? 777 00:36:49,085 --> 00:36:50,335 - Sure. - Alright. 778 00:36:51,251 --> 00:36:54,543 I've come back to visit Eric 779 00:36:54,543 --> 00:36:56,835 and I was really hoping that he was able 780 00:36:56,835 --> 00:36:59,376 to maintain the progress that was made 781 00:36:59,376 --> 00:37:01,210 when we were here before. 782 00:37:02,251 --> 00:37:06,126 So, let's talk a little bit about this room. 783 00:37:06,126 --> 00:37:10,168 Dorothy had created this music area for you. 784 00:37:10,168 --> 00:37:12,710 Looks like it's still usable, 785 00:37:14,043 --> 00:37:16,751 but there's a lot of stuff here that wasn't here before. 786 00:37:16,751 --> 00:37:17,835 Imagine that. 787 00:37:17,835 --> 00:37:20,835 I'm curious how you felt when we left 788 00:37:20,835 --> 00:37:23,793 and, sort of, how things are today. 789 00:37:23,793 --> 00:37:27,168 Well, I was appreciative of y'all's efforts. 790 00:37:27,168 --> 00:37:31,251 After the initial sheen of having things 791 00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:35,501 as, I guess, cleared up or organized, 792 00:37:37,251 --> 00:37:39,251 I began to realize that it doesn't solve 793 00:37:39,251 --> 00:37:40,543 my inward problems. 794 00:37:40,543 --> 00:37:44,335 It was an outward experience, 795 00:37:44,335 --> 00:37:46,251 it wasn't an inward experience. 796 00:37:48,751 --> 00:37:53,335 After the cleanup, things have deteriorated back to 797 00:37:53,335 --> 00:37:55,418 a condition I would say is even worse 798 00:37:57,293 --> 00:37:59,251 than it was before. 799 00:37:59,251 --> 00:38:01,210 I like to say there's good news to announce, 800 00:38:01,210 --> 00:38:02,960 but there's not. 801 00:38:08,876 --> 00:38:10,543 [gentle pulsating music] 802 00:38:18,168 --> 00:38:19,918 At the end of the cleanup, 803 00:38:19,918 --> 00:38:24,085 Eric had gotten rid of thousands and thousands of items 804 00:38:24,085 --> 00:38:26,710 and dumpsters full of his stuff. 805 00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:29,585 And even though it was like a tornado going through 806 00:38:29,585 --> 00:38:32,001 and it was fast and quick 807 00:38:32,001 --> 00:38:35,001 and maybe a little overwhelming at times, 808 00:38:35,001 --> 00:38:36,751 his house was livable. 809 00:38:36,751 --> 00:38:39,043 He didn't have pathways anymore, 810 00:38:39,043 --> 00:38:42,585 and even though a few rooms were still filled with stuff, 811 00:38:42,585 --> 00:38:43,876 it was only the stuff 812 00:38:43,876 --> 00:38:46,793 that he had not yet made decisions about. 813 00:38:46,793 --> 00:38:50,085 And it was boxes of his stuff that he needed to go through 814 00:38:50,085 --> 00:38:52,210 with his aftercare support. 815 00:38:52,210 --> 00:38:53,876 Well, after the cleanup, 816 00:38:53,876 --> 00:38:58,585 I was given a couple of people to talk to, a organizer. 817 00:38:59,501 --> 00:39:02,668 I was also given counseling 818 00:39:02,668 --> 00:39:06,585 by a local psychologist. 819 00:39:06,585 --> 00:39:10,210 But in the end, it's all up to me to do these things. 820 00:39:10,210 --> 00:39:14,751 It takes more energy than I have at this point in my life. 821 00:39:17,126 --> 00:39:18,335 You're a complex human being 822 00:39:18,335 --> 00:39:20,835 and a lot of things have happened to you 823 00:39:20,835 --> 00:39:24,043 that many people have not experienced. 824 00:39:24,043 --> 00:39:26,251 Yep. 825 00:39:26,251 --> 00:39:28,501 Although I'm here just to check in, 826 00:39:28,501 --> 00:39:33,001 my goal is to help Eric get into a place 827 00:39:33,001 --> 00:39:35,793 where he can have a renewed confidence 828 00:39:35,793 --> 00:39:39,126 to get back to the purging process 829 00:39:39,126 --> 00:39:42,126 and also go back into therapy, 830 00:39:42,126 --> 00:39:46,668 to get to a place where he can really deal with the issues 831 00:39:46,668 --> 00:39:51,543 that are keeping him hijacked in his own home. 832 00:39:51,543 --> 00:39:53,460 I'm gonna give you a challenge. 833 00:39:53,460 --> 00:39:54,918 Alright, fire away. 834 00:39:54,918 --> 00:39:59,668 When you have cleared 10 bags of garbage 835 00:40:01,085 --> 00:40:04,668 and when you can go one week 836 00:40:04,668 --> 00:40:09,668 without going to a thrift store, you're gonna gimme a call. 837 00:40:10,251 --> 00:40:12,418 - Okay. - Okay? 838 00:40:12,418 --> 00:40:13,960 You know why I'm doing that? 839 00:40:15,418 --> 00:40:17,543 I'm sure you have your dastardly reasons. 840 00:40:17,543 --> 00:40:19,543 [Dr. Zasio laughing] 841 00:40:19,543 --> 00:40:21,626 No one's ever said that before. 842 00:40:21,626 --> 00:40:24,543 You've gotta show me that you're gonna put in some work. 843 00:40:26,793 --> 00:40:28,418 Okay? - That's the four letter word. 844 00:40:28,418 --> 00:40:30,668 - Mm, it is. Okay? - Yeah. 845 00:40:30,668 --> 00:40:33,793 And I think that's a fair enough challenge 846 00:40:33,793 --> 00:40:35,918 to get something on the other side. 847 00:40:35,918 --> 00:40:37,460 So you're throwing down the gauntlet 848 00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:39,168 and you want me to pick it up, huh? 849 00:40:40,543 --> 00:40:43,126 You want me, a guy who doesn't pick up stuff very much, 850 00:40:43,126 --> 00:40:44,585 to pick up that gauntlet, so. 851 00:40:45,585 --> 00:40:47,793 I accept the challenge. - Alright. 852 00:40:49,126 --> 00:40:50,710 I believe you wanna feel better. 853 00:40:53,585 --> 00:40:56,376 This is not helping you to feel better. 854 00:40:56,376 --> 00:40:59,501 You can't expect to feel better 855 00:40:59,501 --> 00:41:02,460 by doing things that are perpetuating 856 00:41:03,793 --> 00:41:06,460 the very soul that you wanna heal. 857 00:41:07,668 --> 00:41:09,793 I basically gave Eric this challenge 858 00:41:09,793 --> 00:41:13,918 because I want to see that moving forward, 859 00:41:13,918 --> 00:41:17,543 he is willing to invest in helping himself. 860 00:41:18,876 --> 00:41:21,918 And if he's willing to invest, then I'm willing to invest 861 00:41:21,918 --> 00:41:26,751 to see what I can do to find him resources 862 00:41:26,751 --> 00:41:31,168 that will actually allow him to continue this process. 863 00:41:31,168 --> 00:41:34,168 So, I'm giving you this challenge because I care. 864 00:41:35,668 --> 00:41:38,251 I'm giving you this challenge because you are worth it. 865 00:41:39,668 --> 00:41:43,251 And I believe that you have the capacity 866 00:41:43,251 --> 00:41:46,293 to have a better life for yourself, 867 00:41:46,293 --> 00:41:49,168 but you have to invest in that. 868 00:41:50,251 --> 00:41:51,626 Okay? - Okay. 869 00:41:53,585 --> 00:41:54,918 It may seem strange to hear, 870 00:41:54,918 --> 00:41:58,626 but I have aspirations to be free of all this. 871 00:41:58,626 --> 00:42:00,793 You know, it's the old adage, you know, 872 00:42:02,085 --> 00:42:04,668 'It's your mess, you need to clean it up.' 873 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,585 It's broke, it needs to be fixed. 874 00:42:10,585 --> 00:42:12,585 I'm broke, I need to be fixed. 875 00:42:12,585 --> 00:42:15,293 [somber music] 876 00:42:19,418 --> 00:42:21,626 [electronic music]