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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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[ SILENCE ]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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>> GROWING UP ON STATEN ISLAND,

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BARBARA AND I HAD OFTEN HEARD

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THE LEGEND OF CROPSEY.

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FOR THE KIDS IN OUR

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NEIGHBORHOOD, CROPSEY WAS THE

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ESCAPED MENTAL PATIENT WHO LIVED

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IN THE TUNNELS BENEATH THE OLD,

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ABANDONED WILLOWBROOK MENTAL

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INSTITUTION...

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WHO WOULD COME OUT LATE AT NIGHT

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AND SNATCH CHILDREN OFF THE

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STREETS.

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ALTHOUGH WE DIDN'T KNOW EACH

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OTHER AS CHILDREN, BARBARA AND I

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HAD BOTH SHARED VERSIONS OF THE

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CROPSEY LEGEND AS IT FILTERED

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THROUGH OUR SEPARATE

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NEIGHBORHOODS AND SEEPED INTO

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OUR COLLECTIVE FEARS.

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SOMETIMES CROPSEY HAD A HOOK FOR

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A HAND.

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OTHER TIMES HE WIELDED A BLOODY

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AX.

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BUT IT DIDN'T MATTER.

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CROPSEY WAS OUT THERE, LURKING

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IN THE SHADOWS, WAITING TO GET

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US.

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>> WE'RE -- WE'RE GONNA GET HER

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BACK.

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[ SOBBING ]

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>> OKAY.

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>> LATER, AS TEENAGERS, WE

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ASSUMED CROPSEY WAS JUST AN

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URBAN LEGEND, A CAUTIONARY TALE

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USED TO KEEP US OUT OF THOSE

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BUILDINGS -- TO STOP US FROM

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DOING ALL THOSE THINGS THAT

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TEENAGERS LIKE TO DO.

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BUT ALL THAT CHANGED THE SUMMER

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LITTLE JENNIFER DISAPPEARED.

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THAT WAS THE SUMMER ALL THE KIDS

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FROM STATEN ISLAND DISCOVERED

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THAT THEIR URBAN LEGEND...

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WAS REAL.

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STATEN ISLAND IS ONE OF THE FIVE

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BOROUGHS OF NEW YORK CITY.

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FOR THE PAST CENTURY, THE ISLAND

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WAS MOSTLY JUST FARMLAND AND

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WOODS --

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THAT WAS, UNTIL THEY BUILT THE

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VERRAZANO BRIDGE IN '64.

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NOW IT'S HOME TO NEARLY HALF A

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MILLION PEOPLE.

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>> BEFORE THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE

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WAS BUILT, THAT'S ALL IT WAS.

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IT WAS JUST THIS ISLAND, THIS

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FORGOTTEN ISLAND.

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ALL THE CHILDREN OF BROOKLYN,

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YOU KNOW, WANTED THEIR OWN HOME,

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AND EVERYBODY WANTS LAND.

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YOU HAVE A DOG, YOU LET HIM OUT

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THE BACKYARD, JUST LIKE, YOU

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KNOW, "FATHER KNOWS BEST."

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>> IT CAN BE PRETTY QUIET.

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I MEAN, EVEN THOUGH MANHATTAN

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IS, LIKE, RIGHT ACROSS THE

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WATER, IT'S DEFINITELY A

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DIFFERENT LIFE OUT HERE.

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IF YOU TRAVEL AROUND SOMETIMES,

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PEOPLE WOULD SAY, "OH, RIGHT,

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THAT'S WHERE THE LARGEST GARBAGE

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DUMP WAS.

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AND, YOU KNOW, RUMOR HAS IT YOU

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COULD SEE IT FROM OUTER SPACE."

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SO ONE BIG GARBAGE DUMP.

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>> IT WAS THE LEAST-POPULATED,

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MOST HEAVILY WOODED BOROUGH.

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FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, LIKE,

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THIS IS A BIG DUMPING GROUND FOR

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MOB BODIES.

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SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE DISPOSED OF,

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IT'S LIKE, "LET'S BRING THEM TO

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STATEN ISLAND."

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>> IT'S LIKE THERE'S ALMOST TOO

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MANY SPACES TO GO TO TO BE

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ISOLATED AND ALONE AND DO

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WHATEVER YOU WANT.

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SO IF YOU HAVE A BAD IDEA IN

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YOUR HEAD, YOU CAN DO IT THERE.

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>> ACROSS THE MIDDLE OF THE

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ISLAND LIES A SECTION OF ANCIENT

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FOREST KNOWN AS THE GREENBELT.

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BORDERING THIS FOREST IS A

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BOY SCOUT CAMP AND AN OLD

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TUBERCULOSIS WARD.

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AS KIDS, WE USED TO ROAM AROUND

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THESE GROUNDS, TRYING TO SCARE

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EACH OTHER WITH STORIES ABOUT

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CROPSEY.

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>> IS THAT POUCH CAMP OVER

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TO THE LEFT?

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>> NO, THAT'S JCC CAMP OVER TO

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THE LEFT.

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AND RIGHT HERE -- THIS IS

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SEA VIEW, THE T.B. WARDS.

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OUR CAMP COUNSELORS WOULD LEAD

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US DOWN THIS PATH, AND THEY'D

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COME OUT OF THE BUILDINGS AND

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SCARE US.

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YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHERE WE

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THOUGHT THAT CROPSEY LIVED -- IN

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THE BASEMENTS DOWN IN HERE AND

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IN THESE OTHER BUILDINGS.

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AND, YOU KNOW, WE USED TO WALK

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THROUGH HERE, AND YOU'D FIND

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BEDS AND PAPERS OF PEOPLE WHO

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HAD DIED HERE.

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SO, YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF MADE

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SENSE TO US.

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>> "CROPSEY," FOR SOME REASON,

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BECAME THE GENERIC TERM FOR A

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MANIAC IN BOY SCOUT CAMPS UP AND

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DOWN THE HUDSON RIVER REGION OF

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NEW YORK STATE.

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SO IT WOULD'VE MADE PERFECT

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SENSE FOR A STORY ABOUT A

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MANIAC WHO WAS HIDING OUT IN THE

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WOODS AND WHO ABDUCTED AND

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KILLED LITTLE CHILDREN TO BE

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CALLED CROPSEY.

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>> FIRST LEARNED ABOUT CROPSEY

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IN SUMMER CAMP.

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>> HE WAS A DOCTOR.

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>> HE WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A

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HOOK.

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>> WITH A KNIFE ABOUT THIS BIG.

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>> AND HE WAS AN AX-WIELDING

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MADMAN.

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>> THE WIFE WAS KILLED.

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>> HE WAS BEING CHASED OR

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TAUNTED.

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>> HE WANTED KIDS.

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AND HE WOULD FIND THEM AND...

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>> HE WOULD HACK YOU UP.

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>> ...CHOP 'EM UP.

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>> "DON'T GO BEHIND THE SHERWOOD

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BUNKS.

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CROPSEY'S OUT THERE."

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>> "MAKE SURE YOU GET OFF AT THE

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MALL.

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DON'T CONTINUE TO GO ANY

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FURTHER."

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>> "DON'T GO DOWN BY THE LAKE AT

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NIGHT.

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CROPSEY'S DOWN THERE."

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>> "NO, DON'T GO NEAR

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WILLOWBROOK PARK.

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WILLOWBROOK PARK IS DANGEROUS."

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>> THERE ARE MANY COMMUNITIES

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THAT HAVE A SUBTERRANEAN

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HISTORY, A HOUSE WHERE

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UNSPEAKABLE THINGS ARE SAID TO

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HAVE HAPPENED, AN INSTITUTION

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WHERE PEOPLE WERE...

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SEGREGATED FROM THE REST OF

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SOCIETY.

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>> WE GOT PICTURES OF SEA VIEW.

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THESE ARE LIKE OVERALL,

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BIRD'S-EYE VIEW OF, YOU KNOW,

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THE HOSPITAL.

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THIS INCLUDED THE TUBERCULOSIS

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WARDS.

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>> THIS INCLUDED TUBERCULOSIS

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WARDS?

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>> YES.

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AND ALSO ON THIS PROPERTY HERE

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WERE A HOSPITAL FOR CONTAGIOUS

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DISEASES, AND THEN IT GOT THE

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MORGUE AND THE CEMETERY.

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WELL, THIS WAS ACROSS THE STREET

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IN THE FARM COLONY, WHICH WAS

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LIKE A DIFFERENT PART OF THE

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HOSPITAL.

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THEY CALLED IT THE "POOR FARM."

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OKAY, HERE WE HAVE THEOR FARM."

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HALLORAN HOSPITAL IN

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WILLOWBROOK.

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>> RIGHT. IT WAS HALLORAN, AND

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THEN IT BECAME THE

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WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL.

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>> EXACTLY.

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>> WILLOWBROOK WAS STRICTLY FOR

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THE MENTALLY ILL?

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>> YES.

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>> BACK IN 1972, THE

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WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL WAS THE

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SUBJECT OF A FAMOUS EXPOSé BY A

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YOUNG REPORTER LOOKING FOR HIS

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BIG BREAK.

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>> I FIRST HEARD OF THIS BIG

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PLACE WITH THE PRETTY-SOUNDING

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NAME BECAUSE OF A CALL I

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RECEIVED FROM A MEMBER OF THE

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WILLOWBROOK STAFF, A

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DR. MICHAEL WILKINS.

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THE DOCTOR INVITED ME TO SEE

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THE CONDITIONS HE WAS TALKING

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ABOUT, SO UNANNOUNCED AND

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UNEXPECTED BY THE SCHOOL

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ADMINISTRATION, WE TOURED

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BUILDING NUMBER SIX.

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THE DOCTOR HAD WARNED ME THAT IT

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WOULD BE BAD.

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IT WAS HORRIBLE.

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THERE WAS ONE ATTENDANT FOR

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PERHAPS 50 SEVERELY AND

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PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHILDREN.

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LYING ON THE FLOOR NAKED AND

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SMEARED WITH THEIR OWN FECES,

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THEY WERE MAKING A PITIFUL

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SOUND, A KIND OF MOURNFUL WAIL

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THAT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO

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FORGET.

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THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE.

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THIS IS WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE.

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BUT HOW CAN I TELL YOU ABOUT THE

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WAY IT SMELLED?

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IT SMELLED OF FILTH, IT SMELLED

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OF DISEASE, AND IT SMELLED OF

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DEATH.

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>> DESPITE GERALDO'S REPORT, IT

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STILL TOOK MORE THAN 10 YEARS

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BEFORE AUTHORITIES BEGAN

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SHUTTING DOWN WILLOWBROOK.

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MANY PATIENTS WERE TRANSFERRED

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TO GROUP HOMES, BUT OTHERS WERE

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LEFT TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES.

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THERE ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT

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SOME PATIENTS, OUT OF CONFUSION

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AND HABIT, RETURNED TO THE 365

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ACRES OF WILLOWBROOK TO ROAM THE

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ABANDONED BUILDINGS AND LIVE IN

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THE TUNNEL SYSTEM THAT LAY

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UNDERNEATH.

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OUT OF THIS, OUR OWN VERSION OF

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THE CROPSEY LEGEND WAS BORN.

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>> AT WHAT POINT, THOUGH, IN

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YOUR LIFE DID YOU START TO

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REALIZE, "HEY, MAYBE CROPSEY IS

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REAL?"

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>> WHEN KIDS STARTED

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DISAPPEARING FROM STATEN ISLAND.

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>> YOU'RE WATCHING CHANNEL 7,

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EYEWITNESS NEWS.

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>> HI, GUYS. LISTEN.

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WE NEED ALL THE HELP WE CAN TO

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HELP FIND JENNIFER.

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>> THE RELENTLESS SEARCH FOR A

262
00:09:51,458 --> 00:09:52,926
12-YEAR-OLD GIRL WITH DOWN

263
00:09:52,926 --> 00:09:54,527
SYNDROME CONTINUES TODAY AS IT

264
00:09:54,527 --> 00:09:56,129
HAS FOR THE LAST THREE WEEKS,

265
00:09:56,129 --> 00:09:57,798
WITH THE HOPE THAT THIS WILL BE

266
00:09:57,798 --> 00:09:58,799
THE DAY THEY FIND

267
00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:00,500
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER.

268
00:10:06,807 --> 00:10:08,876
>> SHE'S VERY FRIENDLY, VERY

269
00:10:08,876 --> 00:10:10,377
HAPPY.

270
00:10:10,377 --> 00:10:12,846
SHE'S A DOLL.

271
00:10:12,846 --> 00:10:15,148
VERY LOVING.

272
00:10:15,148 --> 00:10:17,450
YOU KNOW, THAT'S A DOWN SYNDROME

273
00:10:17,450 --> 00:10:18,786
CHILD'S NATURE.

274
00:10:18,786 --> 00:10:20,087
>> INSTEAD OF LYING IN THE SUN

275
00:10:20,087 --> 00:10:21,454
TODAY, I FIGURED I'D COME OUT

276
00:10:21,454 --> 00:10:22,189
AND JUST HELP.

277
00:10:22,189 --> 00:10:23,456
>> COULD BE ONE OF OUR OWN

278
00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:24,792
CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS

279
00:10:24,792 --> 00:10:27,761
KIDNAPPED OR, YOU KNOW, MOLESTED

280
00:10:27,761 --> 00:10:28,328
ANYWAYS.

281
00:10:28,328 --> 00:10:29,863
>> MAYBE IT'S JENNIFER'S ADDED

282
00:10:29,863 --> 00:10:31,331
VULNERABILITY OF HAVING DOWN

283
00:10:31,331 --> 00:10:32,565
SYNDROME OR POSSIBLY THE

284
00:10:32,565 --> 00:10:33,767
CLOSE-KNIT FEELINGS OF

285
00:10:33,767 --> 00:10:35,335
STATEN ISLANDERS AT HAVING ONE

286
00:10:35,335 --> 00:10:36,870
OF THEIR CHILDREN MISSING, BUT

287
00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:38,171
EVERY DAY, MORE AND MORE

288
00:10:38,171 --> 00:10:39,707
VOLUNTEERS TURN OUT, SEARCHING

289
00:10:39,707 --> 00:10:41,208
THROUGH THE WOODS AND HITTING

290
00:10:41,208 --> 00:10:42,710
THE STREETS, HOPING TO PUT AN

291
00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:44,044
END TO THE SCHWEIGER FAMILY

292
00:10:44,044 --> 00:10:44,878
ORDEAL.

293
00:10:44,878 --> 00:10:47,047
SO MANY PEOPLE TURNED OUT FOR

294
00:10:47,047 --> 00:10:48,181
THIS SEARCH.

295
00:10:48,181 --> 00:10:51,885
EVERYBODY FELT THAT...

296
00:10:51,885 --> 00:10:53,253
THIS WAS ONE OF THEIR OWN THAT

297
00:10:53,253 --> 00:10:54,855
HAD DISAPPEARED.

298
00:10:54,855 --> 00:10:56,489
THEY WOULD SHOW UP AT THE

299
00:10:56,489 --> 00:10:58,258
FIREHOUSE WITH FLASHLIGHTS,

300
00:10:58,258 --> 00:11:00,127
READY TO GO INTO WILLOWBROOK,

301
00:11:00,127 --> 00:11:01,995
WILLING TO GO INTO THE FOREST,

302
00:11:01,995 --> 00:11:04,264
INTO THE TUNNELS UNDERNEATH.

303
00:11:04,264 --> 00:11:05,766
THERE WAS ONE FAMILY IN

304
00:11:05,766 --> 00:11:07,768
PARTICULAR, DONNA CUTUGNO, AND

305
00:11:07,768 --> 00:11:09,269
SOME OF HER FRIENDS AND

306
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:10,871
NEIGHBORS WHO HAD STEPPED

307
00:11:10,871 --> 00:11:13,106
FORWARD TO ORGANIZE SEARCHES.

308
00:11:13,106 --> 00:11:14,574
>> TODAY, WE'RE CONCENTRATING ON

309
00:11:14,574 --> 00:11:15,408
WILLOWBROOK PARK.

310
00:11:15,408 --> 00:11:16,609
THE POLICE WENT IN THERE

311
00:11:16,609 --> 00:11:17,778
YESTERDAY, AND WE'RE JUST

312
00:11:17,778 --> 00:11:19,179
CONTINUING WHERE THE POLICE LEFT

313
00:11:19,179 --> 00:11:19,612
OFF.

314
00:11:19,612 --> 00:11:21,048
THIS IS WHAT WILLOWBROOK LOOKED

315
00:11:21,048 --> 00:11:22,249
LIKE WHEN WE WERE IN HERE.

316
00:11:22,249 --> 00:11:23,717
I'LL NEVER FORGET THE FIRST TIME

317
00:11:23,717 --> 00:11:24,885
I WENT INTO ONE OF THESE

318
00:11:24,885 --> 00:11:26,286
BUILDINGS.

319
00:11:26,286 --> 00:11:27,921
IT WAS REALLY BLOOD-CURDLING,

320
00:11:27,921 --> 00:11:29,656
BECAUSE HERE WAS THE FIRST TIME

321
00:11:29,656 --> 00:11:30,991
I WAS ACTUALLY IN THESE

322
00:11:30,991 --> 00:11:32,793
BUILDINGS I HEARD THESE HORRIBLE

323
00:11:32,793 --> 00:11:34,194
STORIES ABOUT.

324
00:11:34,194 --> 00:11:35,829
AND AS YOU WALK THROUGH,

325
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:37,064
COMPLETELY EMPTY.

326
00:11:37,064 --> 00:11:38,932
YOU STILL HEAR, YOU FEEL IT.

327
00:11:38,932 --> 00:11:40,600
YOU COULD ALMOST FEEL THE

328
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,435
CHILDREN'S PRESENCE THERE OR

329
00:11:42,435 --> 00:11:44,772
THE ADULTS' PRESENCE THERE.

330
00:11:44,772 --> 00:11:48,208
AND IT'S SOMETHING YOU NEVER GET

331
00:11:48,208 --> 00:11:48,809
USED TO.

332
00:11:48,809 --> 00:11:50,543
WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING, MAKE SURE

333
00:11:50,543 --> 00:11:52,179
YOU LOOK DOWN ON THE GROUND.

334
00:11:52,179 --> 00:11:53,480
LOOK UP IN THE TREES.

335
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,182
ANYTHING YOU FIND, THE POLICE

336
00:11:55,182 --> 00:11:56,784
CAN GET A LOT OF INFORMATION

337
00:11:56,784 --> 00:11:57,417
FROM IT.

338
00:11:57,417 --> 00:11:59,152
IN OUR SEARCHING, WHAT WE FOUND

339
00:11:59,152 --> 00:12:01,188
WAS A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT

340
00:12:01,188 --> 00:12:02,956
ACTUALLY LIVED HERE WHEN

341
00:12:02,956 --> 00:12:05,125
WILLOWBROOK WAS UP AND RUNNING

342
00:12:05,125 --> 00:12:07,227
AND IN FULL SWING TEND TO COME

343
00:12:07,227 --> 00:12:08,195
BACK HERE.

344
00:12:08,195 --> 00:12:10,363
SO THERE WAS A WHOLE...

345
00:12:10,363 --> 00:12:12,032
UNDERGROUND OF PEOPLE THAT STILL

346
00:12:12,032 --> 00:12:13,666
LIVED HERE, EVEN THOUGH ALL THE

347
00:12:13,666 --> 00:12:15,102
BUILDINGS WERE CLOSED, AND

348
00:12:15,102 --> 00:12:16,469
ANDRE RAND WAS DEFINITELY

349
00:12:16,469 --> 00:12:18,305
ONE OF THEM.

350
00:12:18,305 --> 00:12:19,639
>> ANDRE RAND WORKED AS AN

351
00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:20,440
ORDERLY AT THE

352
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:21,942
WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL FROM

353
00:12:21,942 --> 00:12:24,978
1966 TO 1968.

354
00:12:24,978 --> 00:12:26,646
FOR YEARS HE LIVED IN NUMEROUS

355
00:12:26,646 --> 00:12:28,415
MAKESHIFT CAMPSITES IN THE WOODS

356
00:12:28,415 --> 00:12:30,550
SURROUNDING WILLOWBROOK.

357
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:32,485
HE WAS ALSO THE LEAD SUSPECT IN

358
00:12:32,485 --> 00:12:34,354
THE JENNIFER SCHWEIGER CASE.

359
00:12:34,354 --> 00:12:36,356
>> THERE WAS TWO WITNESSES THAT

360
00:12:36,356 --> 00:12:38,391
STATED THAT THEY SAW HER WALKING

361
00:12:38,391 --> 00:12:41,594
ALONG THE STREET WITH A

362
00:12:41,594 --> 00:12:43,096
MIDDLE-AGED GENTLEMAN, AND HE

363
00:12:43,096 --> 00:12:44,697
HAD A FEMALE GREEN BIKE WITH A

364
00:12:44,697 --> 00:12:46,533
BASKET ON THE FRONT OF IT.

365
00:12:46,533 --> 00:12:48,435
THE WEEK BEFORE, I WAS IN

366
00:12:48,435 --> 00:12:50,337
ShopRite, AND I SAW RAND.

367
00:12:50,337 --> 00:12:52,505
I RECOGNIZED HIM FROM A PRIOR

368
00:12:52,505 --> 00:12:53,173
CASE.

369
00:12:53,173 --> 00:12:56,276
HE PURCHASED BABY FOOD, AND HE

370
00:12:56,276 --> 00:12:58,078
GOT ON A GREEN FEMALE BIKE WITH

371
00:12:58,078 --> 00:12:59,379
A BASKET ON THE FRONT.

372
00:12:59,379 --> 00:13:00,914
AT THAT POINT, BAM, I SAID,

373
00:13:00,914 --> 00:13:01,815
"IT'S ANDRE.

374
00:13:01,815 --> 00:13:04,051
I SAW HIM LAST WEEK."

375
00:13:04,051 --> 00:13:05,685
>> RAND WAS IMMEDIATELY BROUGHT

376
00:13:05,685 --> 00:13:07,320
IN AND QUESTIONED IN THE GIRL'S

377
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:08,956
DISAPPEARANCE BUT RELEASED FOR

378
00:13:08,956 --> 00:13:09,990
LACK OF EVIDENCE.

379
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:11,691
AFTER FOUR WEEKS OF SURVEILLANCE

380
00:13:11,691 --> 00:13:13,193
IN HOPES OF FINDING JENNIFER

381
00:13:13,193 --> 00:13:16,363
ALIVE, HE WAS ARRESTED.

382
00:13:16,363 --> 00:13:18,065
RAND HAD BEEN FAMILIAR TO POLICE

383
00:13:18,065 --> 00:13:19,732
AFTER PLEADING GUILTY TO SEXUAL

384
00:13:19,732 --> 00:13:21,234
MISCONDUCT WITH A 9-YEAR-OLD

385
00:13:21,234 --> 00:13:24,204
GIRL BACK IN 1969 -- A CRIME

386
00:13:24,204 --> 00:13:26,706
WHICH HE DENIED.

387
00:13:26,706 --> 00:13:27,674
>> GOOD AFTERNOON.

388
00:13:27,674 --> 00:13:29,009
HERE'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.

389
00:13:29,009 --> 00:13:30,410
A HOMELESS MAN, 43-YEAR-OLD

390
00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:31,945
ANDRE RAND, IS UNDER ARREST.

391
00:13:31,945 --> 00:13:33,146
HE IS CHARGED WITH THE

392
00:13:33,146 --> 00:13:34,447
KIDNAPPING OF 12-YEAR-OLD

393
00:13:34,447 --> 00:13:35,348
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER.

394
00:13:35,348 --> 00:13:36,716
THE SUSPECT WAS PICKED UP LAST

395
00:13:36,716 --> 00:13:37,550
NIGHT HERE AT THE

396
00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:38,685
CHURCH OF THE GOD WITHIN.

397
00:13:38,685 --> 00:13:39,987
POLICE HAD QUESTIONED HIM AS

398
00:13:39,987 --> 00:13:41,388
EARLY AS THE SECOND DAY INTO THE

399
00:13:41,388 --> 00:13:42,622
INVESTIGATION, AND AFTER FOUR

400
00:13:42,622 --> 00:13:44,057
WEEKS OF A MAKING A CASE AGAINST

401
00:13:44,057 --> 00:13:45,358
THE MAN, THEY FINALLY DECIDED

402
00:13:45,358 --> 00:13:46,493
THEY HAD ENOUGH TO GET A

403
00:13:46,493 --> 00:13:47,895
CONVICTION.

404
00:13:47,895 --> 00:13:49,629
I'VE NEVER SEEN A PERP WALK LIKE

405
00:13:49,629 --> 00:13:50,097
THAT.

406
00:13:50,097 --> 00:13:51,798
WATCHING HIM COMING OUT LOOKING

407
00:13:51,798 --> 00:13:54,267
LIKE HE HAD LOST HIS MIND

408
00:13:54,267 --> 00:13:57,170
FURTHER ANGERED PEOPLE IN THE

409
00:13:57,170 --> 00:13:58,238
COMMUNITY.

410
00:13:58,238 --> 00:14:00,340
THAT IMAGE FORCED A LOT OF

411
00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:02,475
PEOPLE TO SAY, "THAT IS THE

412
00:14:02,475 --> 00:14:03,310
KILLER.

413
00:14:03,310 --> 00:14:05,145
THAT MAN IS NOT RIGHT.

414
00:14:05,145 --> 00:14:07,447
LOOK AT HIM THERE, DROOLING."

415
00:14:07,447 --> 00:14:09,782
AND IT CERTAINLY CAUSED ME TO

416
00:14:09,782 --> 00:14:11,384
ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

417
00:14:11,384 --> 00:14:12,619
WHO IS ANDRE RAND?

418
00:14:12,619 --> 00:14:14,554
DID THEY GET A CRAZY MAN AND

419
00:14:14,554 --> 00:14:16,456
JUST SAY HE'S THE GUY, OR DID

420
00:14:16,456 --> 00:14:18,458
THEY REALLY HAVE GOOD EVIDENCE

421
00:14:18,458 --> 00:14:20,460
AGAINST HIM THAT WOULD STICK IN

422
00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:21,728
A COURT?

423
00:14:21,728 --> 00:14:23,063
>> I USED TO TEACH THE

424
00:14:23,063 --> 00:14:24,297
ANDRE RAND STORY IN MY

425
00:14:24,297 --> 00:14:25,432
JOURNALISM CLASS.

426
00:14:25,432 --> 00:14:27,034
COMING DOWN THE STEPS OF THE

427
00:14:27,034 --> 00:14:28,635
COURTHOUSE WITH A HEADLINE,

428
00:14:28,635 --> 00:14:30,370
"DRIFTER ARRESTED."

429
00:14:30,370 --> 00:14:31,804
WELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

430
00:14:31,804 --> 00:14:33,073
IT MEANS GUILTY, RIGHT?

431
00:14:33,073 --> 00:14:34,574
WHETHER HE IS OR NOT, I DON'T

432
00:14:34,574 --> 00:14:36,009
KNOW THE WHOLE STORY EITHER.

433
00:14:36,009 --> 00:14:37,610
BUT IT'S A LOT EASIER TO DO IT

434
00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:39,246
THAT WAY THAN TO SAY, "YOU KNOW

435
00:14:39,246 --> 00:14:39,712
WHAT?

436
00:14:39,712 --> 00:14:41,181
IT MIGHT BE SOMEBODY ON YOUR

437
00:14:41,181 --> 00:14:41,748
BLOCK."

438
00:14:41,748 --> 00:14:42,482
[ CHUCKLES ]

439
00:14:42,482 --> 00:14:44,051
"IT MIGHT BE SOMEBODY YOU WORK

440
00:14:44,051 --> 00:14:45,652
WITH."

441
00:14:45,652 --> 00:14:47,020
>> DID YOU EVER THINK THAT

442
00:14:47,020 --> 00:14:48,455
ANYBODY ELSE WAS INVOLVED?

443
00:14:48,455 --> 00:14:50,023
>> WELL, WE ALWAYS HAD TO THINK

444
00:14:50,023 --> 00:14:51,691
THERE WAS SOMEBODY ELSE UNTIL WE

445
00:14:51,691 --> 00:14:52,892
COULD JUST RULE IT OUT.

446
00:14:52,892 --> 00:14:54,094
YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO

447
00:14:54,094 --> 00:14:55,328
KEEP THAT IN THE BACK OF YOUR

448
00:14:55,328 --> 00:14:55,662
MIND.

449
00:14:55,662 --> 00:14:57,430
>> AND PLUS, BY GOING BY OUR

450
00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:59,332
WITNESSES, IF YOU CONSIDER OUR

451
00:14:59,332 --> 00:15:01,301
WITNESSES CREDIBLE, IT WAS ONLY

452
00:15:01,301 --> 00:15:02,569
ANDRE AND JENNIFER.

453
00:15:02,569 --> 00:15:05,538
THERE WAS NO OTHER PERSON.

454
00:15:05,538 --> 00:15:07,374
>> OF COURSE, WHEN WE HAD HIM

455
00:15:07,374 --> 00:15:09,342
FOR THE 26 HOURS, WHERE WAS SHE?

456
00:15:09,342 --> 00:15:11,244
DID HE LEAVE HER WITH SOMEBODY

457
00:15:11,244 --> 00:15:12,712
ELSE?

458
00:15:12,712 --> 00:15:14,314
>> WITH RAND'S ARREST, THE

459
00:15:14,314 --> 00:15:15,882
SEARCH FOR JENNIFER TURNED

460
00:15:15,882 --> 00:15:16,683
DESPERATE.

461
00:15:16,683 --> 00:15:18,251
RUMORS WERE SPREADING THAT

462
00:15:18,251 --> 00:15:19,819
SOMEONE, MAYBE EVEN ONE OF

463
00:15:19,819 --> 00:15:21,388
RAND'S FRIENDS, WAS HIDING

464
00:15:21,388 --> 00:15:23,190
JENNIFER AND MOVING HER LATE AT

465
00:15:23,190 --> 00:15:24,724
NIGHT THROUGH THE TUNNELS

466
00:15:24,724 --> 00:15:26,059
UNDERNEATH WILLOWBROOK.

467
00:15:26,059 --> 00:15:27,460
>> I WANT MY DAUGHTER.

468
00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:28,996
I WANT THE MAN TO TALK.

469
00:15:30,163 --> 00:15:32,065
I WANT HIM JUST TO TELL US WHERE

470
00:15:32,065 --> 00:15:34,067
JENNIFER IS.

471
00:15:34,067 --> 00:15:35,668
>> DESPITE CONSTANT THREATS BY

472
00:15:35,668 --> 00:15:37,204
STATE OFFICIALS TO STAY AWAY

473
00:15:37,204 --> 00:15:38,871
FROM WILLOWBROOK, DONNA AND THE

474
00:15:38,871 --> 00:15:40,473
FRIENDS OF JENNIFER KEPT GOING

475
00:15:40,473 --> 00:15:42,142
BACK.

476
00:15:42,142 --> 00:15:44,177
>> THIS AREA HAD BEEN COVERED

477
00:15:44,177 --> 00:15:45,745
THOUSANDS OF TIMES BY

478
00:15:45,745 --> 00:15:47,914
VOLUNTEERS, BY POLICE, BY DOGS.

479
00:15:47,914 --> 00:15:50,150
BUT IN THAT TIME, ONE GENTLEMAN

480
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:52,019
CAME ACROSS AN AREA THAT HE

481
00:15:52,019 --> 00:15:54,021
NOTICED HAD CLAY BALLS UP ON

482
00:15:54,021 --> 00:15:55,755
TOP, LIKE SOMEONE PATTED DOWN.

483
00:15:55,755 --> 00:15:57,557
AND THEN THIS WAS ALL, YOU KNOW,

484
00:15:57,557 --> 00:15:59,392
PUSHED BACK OVER WITH THE TREES.

485
00:15:59,392 --> 00:16:01,061
IT WAS JUST A LITTLE SPOT THAT

486
00:16:01,061 --> 00:16:02,629
HE NOTICED THE CLAY BALLS.

487
00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:04,397
AND THAT'S WHAT MADE US GO BACK,

488
00:16:04,397 --> 00:16:06,099
OR MADE HIM INSIST THAT WE GO

489
00:16:06,099 --> 00:16:06,633
BACK.

490
00:16:06,633 --> 00:16:08,068
AND GEORGE SHOWED US THE

491
00:16:08,068 --> 00:16:12,505
LOCATION THAT HE THOUGHT...

492
00:16:12,505 --> 00:16:17,944
NEEDED TO BE LOOKED AT.

493
00:16:17,944 --> 00:16:19,346
THE SMELL -- AS SOON AS YOU

494
00:16:19,346 --> 00:16:22,415
START DIGGING...

495
00:16:22,415 --> 00:16:26,553
WE SAW HER TOES.

496
00:16:26,553 --> 00:16:30,557
AND EVERYBODY STOPPED.

497
00:16:30,557 --> 00:16:31,991
FATHER HENRY GAVE HER LAST

498
00:16:31,991 --> 00:16:33,660
RITES.

499
00:16:42,769 --> 00:16:44,137
AND THEY TOOK US OUT OF THE

500
00:16:44,137 --> 00:16:45,238
WOODS.

501
00:16:45,238 --> 00:16:46,606
>> ERNIE, A GRISLY DISCOVERY

502
00:16:46,606 --> 00:16:48,108
BACK HERE TONIGHT, BACK HERE IN

503
00:16:48,108 --> 00:16:49,109
THE 384 ACRES OF THE

504
00:16:49,109 --> 00:16:50,443
STATEN ISLAND DEVELOPMENTAL

505
00:16:50,443 --> 00:16:51,744
CENTER -- AN ARM AND A LEG

506
00:16:51,744 --> 00:16:53,080
STICKING OUT FROM A SHALLOW

507
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:53,546
GRAVE.

508
00:16:53,546 --> 00:16:54,981
THEY ARE EERIE SHADOWS, POLICE

509
00:16:54,981 --> 00:16:56,349
AND OTHERS AT THE SCENE WHERE

510
00:16:56,349 --> 00:16:57,517
THE BODY OF 12-YEAR-OLD

511
00:16:57,517 --> 00:16:59,018
JENNIFER LYNN SCHWEIGER TONIGHT

512
00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:00,287
WAS FOUND.

513
00:17:00,287 --> 00:17:01,721
POLICE WERE PREVENTING ANYONE

514
00:17:01,721 --> 00:17:03,223
FROM GETTING THIS CLOSE TO THE

515
00:17:03,223 --> 00:17:03,656
SCENE.

516
00:17:03,656 --> 00:17:05,192
EVEN JENNIFER'S FATHER IS KEPT

517
00:17:05,192 --> 00:17:05,592
AWAY.

518
00:17:05,592 --> 00:17:06,993
>> YEAH, JENNIFER'S FATHER'S

519
00:17:06,993 --> 00:17:07,427
HERE.

520
00:17:07,427 --> 00:17:08,961
HE SAYS YOU GAVE HIM PERMISSION

521
00:17:08,961 --> 00:17:09,862
TO COME THROUGH?

522
00:17:09,862 --> 00:17:11,131
>> UNLESS THEY CAN WALK ON

523
00:17:11,131 --> 00:17:14,334
WATER, THEY STAY OUTSIDE.

524
00:17:14,334 --> 00:17:15,602
>> THERE ARE TWO OTHER GIRLS

525
00:17:15,602 --> 00:17:16,869
WHO, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF

526
00:17:16,869 --> 00:17:18,171
YEARS, HAVE TURNED UP MISSING

527
00:17:18,171 --> 00:17:19,172
HERE ON STATEN ISLAND.

528
00:17:19,172 --> 00:17:20,573
THEY WILL BE SEARCHING THIS AREA

529
00:17:20,573 --> 00:17:22,008
IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS TO SEE WHAT

530
00:17:22,008 --> 00:17:22,709
THEY CAN FIND.

531
00:17:22,709 --> 00:17:23,976
AS ONE POLICE OFFICER TOLD US

532
00:17:23,976 --> 00:17:25,312
TONIGHT, GOD KNOWS WHAT THEY

533
00:17:25,312 --> 00:17:26,546
CAN FIND HERE.

534
00:17:26,546 --> 00:17:28,681
>> THE DISCOVERY OF JENNIFER'S

535
00:17:28,681 --> 00:17:30,883
BODY ONLY 150 YARDS FROM RAND'S

536
00:17:30,883 --> 00:17:32,985
CAMPSITE CONFIRMED EVERYONE'S

537
00:17:32,985 --> 00:17:34,287
WORST NIGHTMARE.

538
00:17:34,287 --> 00:17:36,323
RESIDENTS WERE OUTRAGED, AND

539
00:17:36,323 --> 00:17:37,824
THEY WANTED JUSTICE.

540
00:17:37,824 --> 00:17:40,093
THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, HOWEVER,

541
00:17:40,093 --> 00:17:42,229
HAD NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TYING

542
00:17:42,229 --> 00:17:43,763
RAND WITH JENNIFER'S

543
00:17:43,763 --> 00:17:44,964
DISAPPEARANCE.

544
00:17:44,964 --> 00:17:46,933
THE CASE WAS RELYING ALMOST

545
00:17:46,933 --> 00:17:48,601
ENTIRELY ON EYEWITNESS

546
00:17:48,601 --> 00:17:50,670
TESTIMONY, WHICH MOST EXPERTS

547
00:17:50,670 --> 00:17:54,541
AGREE IS OFTEN UNRELIABLE.

548
00:17:54,541 --> 00:17:56,743
AFTER THE LARGEST CRIMINAL TRIAL

549
00:17:56,743 --> 00:17:58,711
IN STATEN ISLAND HISTORY, RAND

550
00:17:58,711 --> 00:18:03,750
WAS CONVICTED OF KIDNAPPING.

551
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:04,984
BUT THE MURDER CHARGE WAS

552
00:18:04,984 --> 00:18:06,419
DISMISSED AFTER JURORS COULDN'T

553
00:18:06,419 --> 00:18:09,889
REACH A VERDICT.

554
00:18:09,889 --> 00:18:12,024
RAND WAS SENTENCED 25 YEARS TO

555
00:18:12,024 --> 00:18:14,194
LIFE AND WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR

556
00:18:14,194 --> 00:18:15,895
PAROLE IN 2008.

557
00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:26,173
>> STATEN ISLANDERS LIKE TO FIND

558
00:18:26,173 --> 00:18:28,040
EASY SCAPEGOATS, BUT NOT THE

559
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:28,875
REAL ONES.

560
00:18:28,875 --> 00:18:30,843
AND WE DON'T WANT TO THINK TOO

561
00:18:30,843 --> 00:18:32,912
DEEPLY ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS FOR

562
00:18:32,912 --> 00:18:33,880
OUR SOCIETY.

563
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,815
WHEN YOU LOOK AT A PLACE LIKE

564
00:18:35,815 --> 00:18:37,817
STATEN ISLAND, IT WAS VIEWED AS

565
00:18:37,817 --> 00:18:39,786
A DUMPING GROUND FOR ALL KINDS

566
00:18:39,786 --> 00:18:40,653
OF THINGS.

567
00:18:40,653 --> 00:18:42,655
THE FRESH KILLS LANDFILL, WHICH

568
00:18:42,655 --> 00:18:44,524
TOOK ALL THE CITY'S GARBAGE,

569
00:18:44,524 --> 00:18:46,326
8 MILLION PEOPLE'S GARBAGE,

570
00:18:46,326 --> 00:18:48,161
DUMPED IN STATEN ISLAND.

571
00:18:48,161 --> 00:18:50,163
THE FARM COLONY WAS A PLACE

572
00:18:50,163 --> 00:18:51,998
WHERE PEOPLE WENT WHO HAD

573
00:18:51,998 --> 00:18:53,099
TUBERCULOSIS.

574
00:18:53,099 --> 00:18:55,435
WILLOWBROOK WAREHOUSED THOUSANDS

575
00:18:55,435 --> 00:18:57,604
OF PEOPLE AND LEFT THEM THERE.

576
00:18:57,604 --> 00:18:59,406
IT WAS A DUMPING GROUND.

577
00:18:59,406 --> 00:19:00,407
WHY WOULD YOU DUMP THEM IN

578
00:19:00,407 --> 00:19:01,040
STATEN ISLAND?

579
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,108
'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOU DUMP

580
00:19:02,108 --> 00:19:02,509
THINGS.

581
00:19:02,509 --> 00:19:03,243
SO YOU DUMP KIDS.

582
00:19:03,243 --> 00:19:04,110
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

583
00:19:04,110 --> 00:19:05,278
YOU'RE DUMPING GARBAGE, YOU'RE

584
00:19:05,278 --> 00:19:06,379
DUMPING KIDS TO STATEN ISLAND.

585
00:19:06,379 --> 00:19:07,447
DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE,

586
00:19:07,447 --> 00:19:10,049
RIGHT?

587
00:19:10,049 --> 00:19:16,256
>> LOOK.

588
00:19:16,256 --> 00:19:20,193
TRAYS FROM THE INSTITUTION.

589
00:19:20,193 --> 00:19:21,861
>> THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.

590
00:19:31,904 --> 00:19:35,542
IT'S MORE ABOUT THE UNDERCURRENT

591
00:19:35,542 --> 00:19:39,212
THAT CANNOT BE TAMED BY BUILDING

592
00:19:39,212 --> 00:19:41,814
OR ORGANIZATION.

593
00:19:41,814 --> 00:19:43,516
YOU PUT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT

594
00:19:43,516 --> 00:19:45,285
ARE MENTALLY ILL, AND YOU PUT A

595
00:19:45,285 --> 00:19:46,686
BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT ARE

596
00:19:46,686 --> 00:19:48,288
PHYSICALLY ILL, AND YOU BURY

597
00:19:48,288 --> 00:19:49,989
PEOPLE HERE AND THERE, AND YOU

598
00:19:49,989 --> 00:19:51,791
DUMP GARBAGE, AND YOU POISON THE

599
00:19:51,791 --> 00:19:53,460
ENVIRONMENT.

600
00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:54,994
AND THEN YOU SIT AROUND, AND YOU

601
00:19:54,994 --> 00:19:56,229
SCRATCH YOUR HEAD, AND YOU

602
00:19:56,229 --> 00:19:57,597
WONDER, "GEE, WHY ARE THINGS

603
00:19:57,597 --> 00:19:58,365
GOING WRONG?"

604
00:19:58,365 --> 00:19:59,766
OR, "WHY IS THERE A CHILL CAST

605
00:19:59,766 --> 00:20:01,167
OVER THIS STATEN ISLAND, THIS

606
00:20:01,167 --> 00:20:02,068
WONDERFUL PLACE?"

607
00:20:02,068 --> 00:20:03,303
BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT THOSE

608
00:20:03,303 --> 00:20:04,804
UNDERCURRENTS, THOSE THINGS THAT

609
00:20:04,804 --> 00:20:06,906
HAD COME BEFORE.

610
00:20:06,906 --> 00:20:08,375
>> AS CHILDREN, WE WERE DELUDED

611
00:20:08,375 --> 00:20:09,609
BY OUR PARENTS' BELIEF THAT

612
00:20:09,609 --> 00:20:11,043
STATEN ISLAND WAS SUCH A SAFE

613
00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:13,313
PLACE TO GROW UP.

614
00:20:13,313 --> 00:20:14,781
BUT IN REALITY, EVERY COMMUNITY

615
00:20:14,781 --> 00:20:17,149
HAS A SEEDY UNDERSIDE.

616
00:20:17,149 --> 00:20:20,320
EVERY SUBURBIA HAS ITS SECRETS.

617
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:21,488
WE ONLY DISCOVERED OUR OWN

618
00:20:21,488 --> 00:20:22,755
BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH

619
00:20:22,755 --> 00:20:24,957
JENNIFER...

620
00:20:24,957 --> 00:20:26,192
AND THEN WITH ALL THE OTHER

621
00:20:26,192 --> 00:20:32,231
CHILDREN.

622
00:20:32,231 --> 00:20:33,933
AFTER DONNA CUTUGNO AND HER TEAM

623
00:20:33,933 --> 00:20:34,967
FOUND THE BODY OF

624
00:20:34,967 --> 00:20:36,536
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER, THE POLICE

625
00:20:36,536 --> 00:20:38,004
STARTED CONNECTING THE DOTS.

626
00:20:38,004 --> 00:20:39,539
THEY LOOKED AT OTHER MISSING

627
00:20:39,539 --> 00:20:41,040
CHILDREN FROM STATEN ISLAND.

628
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,642
EVENTUALLY, THEY FOCUSED IN ON

629
00:20:42,642 --> 00:20:44,210
FOUR DIFFERENT CASES SPANNING

630
00:20:44,210 --> 00:20:46,646
OVER 15 YEARS --

631
00:20:46,646 --> 00:20:48,381
TIAHEASE JACKSON, A 10-YEAR-OLD

632
00:20:48,381 --> 00:20:50,082
GIRL WITH LEARNING DISABILITIES

633
00:20:50,082 --> 00:20:51,551
WHO DISAPPEARED FOUR YEARS

634
00:20:51,551 --> 00:20:53,720
BEFORE JENNIFER.

635
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,522
HANK GAFFORIO, 21 BUT WITH THE

636
00:20:55,522 --> 00:20:56,923
I.Q. OF A 15-YEAR-OLD,

637
00:20:56,923 --> 00:20:58,691
DISAPPEARED THREE YEARS BEFORE

638
00:20:58,691 --> 00:21:00,893
JENNIFER.

639
00:21:00,893 --> 00:21:02,695
7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY ANN HUGHES, WHO

640
00:21:02,695 --> 00:21:04,364
WENT MISSING SIX YEARS BEFORE

641
00:21:04,364 --> 00:21:05,532
JENNIFER.

642
00:21:05,532 --> 00:21:08,034
AND FINALLY ALICE PEREIRA, LAST

643
00:21:08,034 --> 00:21:10,269
SEEN 1972, 15 YEARS BEFORE

644
00:21:10,269 --> 00:21:11,237
JENNIFER.

645
00:21:11,237 --> 00:21:13,440
TO THIS DAY, NONE OF THEIR

646
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,176
BODIES HAVE EVER BEEN FOUND.

647
00:21:17,176 --> 00:21:19,446
>> THEY ARE MISSING-PERSON CASES

648
00:21:19,446 --> 00:21:21,047
THAT HAVE OCCURRED ON

649
00:21:21,047 --> 00:21:23,350
STATEN ISLAND THAT HAVE NOT BEEN

650
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:25,652
RESOLVED.

651
00:21:25,652 --> 00:21:26,819
>> AS KIDS, WE NEVER THOUGHT

652
00:21:26,819 --> 00:21:28,020
WE'D LEARN THE REAL STORY BEHIND

653
00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:30,222
CROPSEY.

654
00:21:30,222 --> 00:21:31,724
INSTEAD, RAND WAS SENT TO

655
00:21:31,724 --> 00:21:33,360
PRISON, AND THE STORIES JUST

656
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,195
FADED AWAY.

657
00:21:36,195 --> 00:21:37,897
BUT NOW, 20 YEARS LATER, WE MAY

658
00:21:37,897 --> 00:21:39,499
GET THE CHANCE TO UNCOVER THE

659
00:21:39,499 --> 00:21:43,035
TRUTH BEHIND OUR URBAN LEGEND.

660
00:21:43,035 --> 00:21:45,372
BECAUSE ANDRE RAND...

661
00:21:45,372 --> 00:21:48,708
IS BACK.

662
00:21:48,708 --> 00:21:50,009
>> ANDRE RAND SCARED A

663
00:21:50,009 --> 00:21:51,378
GENERATION OF PARENTS AND

664
00:21:51,378 --> 00:21:52,879
CHILDREN ON STATEN ISLAND.

665
00:21:52,879 --> 00:21:54,547
CONVICTED IN THE DISAPPEARANCE

666
00:21:54,547 --> 00:21:56,282
OF ONE CHILD IN THE 1980s, HE IS

667
00:21:56,282 --> 00:21:57,617
ONCE AGAIN ON TRIAL FOR

668
00:21:57,617 --> 00:21:59,018
KIDNAPPING.

669
00:21:59,018 --> 00:22:00,487
AFTER SPENDING 17 YEARS IN

670
00:22:00,487 --> 00:22:02,221
PRISON, ANDRE RAND HAS RETURNED

671
00:22:02,221 --> 00:22:03,956
TO STATEN ISLAND TO STAND TRIAL

672
00:22:03,956 --> 00:22:05,224
FOR THE KIDNAPPING OF

673
00:22:05,224 --> 00:22:07,460
7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY ANN HUGHES, WHO

674
00:22:07,460 --> 00:22:09,429
DISAPPEARED TWO DECADES EARLIER.

675
00:22:09,429 --> 00:22:11,297
HER BODY HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND.

676
00:22:11,297 --> 00:22:13,132
>> CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU EVER

677
00:22:13,132 --> 00:22:14,534
MET HOLLY ANN HUGHES?

678
00:22:14,534 --> 00:22:17,036
ANY COMMENT WHATSOEVER, PLEASE.

679
00:22:17,036 --> 00:22:18,538
>> I LOVE MY SISTER VERY MUCH.

680
00:22:18,538 --> 00:22:19,506
IT'S BEEN 20 YEARS.

681
00:22:19,506 --> 00:22:20,873
[ Voice breaking ] SOMETHING

682
00:22:20,873 --> 00:22:22,074
I'VE HAD TO CARRY FOR AN

683
00:22:22,074 --> 00:22:23,142
INCREDIBLY LONG TIME.

684
00:22:23,142 --> 00:22:24,343
AND I MISS HER SO MUCH.

685
00:22:24,343 --> 00:22:25,878
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S, LIKE, NICE TO

686
00:22:25,878 --> 00:22:27,213
SEE THAT FINALLY SHE'S BEING

687
00:22:27,213 --> 00:22:28,715
TREATED LIKE SHE'S A PERSON AND

688
00:22:28,715 --> 00:22:30,082
NOT LIKE A LOST WALLET, YOU

689
00:22:30,082 --> 00:22:30,450
KNOW?

690
00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:31,984
THAT'S PRETTY MUCH LIKE HOW IT'S

691
00:22:31,984 --> 00:22:33,720
BEEN FOR LIKE THE LAST 20 YEARS.

692
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,028
>> STATEN ISLAND TONIGHT, THE

693
00:22:42,028 --> 00:22:43,763
STORY OF ANOTHER MISSING CHILD.

694
00:22:43,763 --> 00:22:45,164
7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY HUGHES

695
00:22:45,164 --> 00:22:46,599
DISAPPEARED ON WEDNESDAY.

696
00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:48,468
SO FAR, NO ONE HAS ANY IDEA WHAT

697
00:22:48,468 --> 00:22:49,969
MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED TO HER.

698
00:22:49,969 --> 00:22:51,604
>> SHE'S VERY OUTGOING, VERY

699
00:22:51,604 --> 00:22:52,271
FRIENDLY.

700
00:22:52,271 --> 00:22:53,840
VERY ADORABLE, I THINK, YOU

701
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,808
KNOW.

702
00:22:55,808 --> 00:22:57,209
>> WE JUST WANT YOU TO BRING

703
00:22:57,209 --> 00:23:01,147
HOLLY HOME...TODAY.

704
00:23:01,147 --> 00:23:03,716
[ Voice breaking ] AND WE'RE --

705
00:23:03,716 --> 00:23:06,352
WE'RE LOOKING FOR HER, AND WE'RE

706
00:23:06,352 --> 00:23:09,288
GOING TO GET HER BACK.

707
00:23:09,288 --> 00:23:10,322
[ SOBBING ]

708
00:23:10,322 --> 00:23:14,193
>> OKAY.

709
00:23:14,193 --> 00:23:16,596
>> THIS IS EDDIE, HOLLY ANN, AND

710
00:23:16,596 --> 00:23:17,997
SEAN.

711
00:23:17,997 --> 00:23:22,334
SHE WAS A VERY WARM LITTLE GIRL.

712
00:23:22,334 --> 00:23:23,736
TYPICAL 7-YEAR-OLD.

713
00:23:23,736 --> 00:23:25,572
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, CUTE AS A

714
00:23:25,572 --> 00:23:27,173
BUTTON.

715
00:23:27,173 --> 00:23:28,641
YOU KNOW, THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF

716
00:23:28,641 --> 00:23:29,976
THE LAST THINGS THAT YOU EVER

717
00:23:29,976 --> 00:23:31,377
THINK ABOUT THAT COULD POSSIBLY

718
00:23:31,377 --> 00:23:32,845
HAPPEN, THAT SOMEBODY WOULD TAKE

719
00:23:32,845 --> 00:23:34,380
YOUR DAUGHTER.

720
00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:36,082
>> THE MOTHER AND I WEREN'T

721
00:23:36,082 --> 00:23:37,750
CONVERSING AT THE TIME IN A

722
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:39,385
PROPER WAY BECAUSE WE WERE

723
00:23:39,385 --> 00:23:41,287
HAVING A LITTLE CUSTODY PROBLEM

724
00:23:41,287 --> 00:23:43,756
THERE DURING THAT SEPARATION

725
00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:44,524
PERIOD.

726
00:23:44,524 --> 00:23:46,726
I REMEMBER JUST SEARCHING ALL

727
00:23:46,726 --> 00:23:47,760
NIGHT LONG.

728
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,029
I MEAN EVERYWHERE -- THE TRAIN

729
00:23:50,029 --> 00:23:52,431
TRESTLE, PARK AVENUE -- ANYWHERE

730
00:23:52,431 --> 00:23:54,734
I COULD POSSIBLY THINK OF WHERE

731
00:23:54,734 --> 00:23:55,902
SHE MIGHT BE.

732
00:23:55,902 --> 00:23:58,304
I WAS GETTING VERY STRANGE PHONE

733
00:23:58,304 --> 00:24:01,541
CALLS FROM ANONYMOUS PEOPLE THAT

734
00:24:01,541 --> 00:24:03,476
THEY KNEW WHERE HOLLY ANN WAS.

735
00:24:03,476 --> 00:24:05,211
JUST CRAZY THINGS, YOU KNOW?

736
00:24:05,211 --> 00:24:06,513
UNBELIEVABLE THINGS.

737
00:24:06,513 --> 00:24:08,247
>> BUT NO ONE EVER MENTIONED

738
00:24:08,247 --> 00:24:09,115
ANDRE RAND?

739
00:24:09,115 --> 00:24:11,383
>> NO.

740
00:24:11,383 --> 00:24:12,985
>> RAND WAS INTERVIEWED AND

741
00:24:12,985 --> 00:24:14,554
RELEASED BACK IN 1981 AFTER

742
00:24:14,554 --> 00:24:16,188
BEING SPOTTED ON HOLLY ANN'S

743
00:24:16,188 --> 00:24:17,990
STREET THE DAY SHE DISAPPEARED.

744
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:19,626
NOW, 20 YEARS LATER, THE D.A.

745
00:24:19,626 --> 00:24:21,360
FINALLY BELIEVES HE HAS ENOUGH

746
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,195
EVIDENCE TO GET A CONVICTION.

747
00:24:23,195 --> 00:24:25,197
HOWEVER, THERE IS ANOTHER ISSUE

748
00:24:25,197 --> 00:24:27,099
THAT CONCERNS LOCAL RESIDENTS.

749
00:24:27,099 --> 00:24:28,935
RAND WILL BE UP FOR PAROLE IN

750
00:24:28,935 --> 00:24:30,670
LESS THAN FOUR YEARS, WHICH

751
00:24:30,670 --> 00:24:32,539
MEANS HE MAY WALK THE STREETS

752
00:24:32,539 --> 00:24:33,405
ONCE AGAIN.

753
00:24:33,405 --> 00:24:35,374
>> WE ARE HERE TODAY IN SUPPORT

754
00:24:35,374 --> 00:24:37,677
FOR HOLLY ANN HUGHES' FAMILY.

755
00:24:37,677 --> 00:24:40,613
THE COMMON THREAD THAT WE SHARE

756
00:24:40,613 --> 00:24:43,449
WITH THE FAMILY IS ANDRE RAND,

757
00:24:43,449 --> 00:24:46,586
THE ALLEGED...

758
00:24:46,586 --> 00:24:47,253
BAD GUY.

759
00:24:47,253 --> 00:24:48,988
>> DOES IT MAKE YOU ANGRY THAT

760
00:24:48,988 --> 00:24:50,557
THIS GUY HAS BEEN OUT THERE

761
00:24:50,557 --> 00:24:52,358
SINCE HOLLY ANN'S DISAPPEARANCE,

762
00:24:52,358 --> 00:24:53,893
AND THEN YOUR DAUGHTER WAS

763
00:24:53,893 --> 00:24:55,394
TAKEN?

764
00:24:55,394 --> 00:24:57,229
>> I THINK THAT IN REALITY,

765
00:24:57,229 --> 00:24:58,965
JENNIFER WAS THE ONE THAT

766
00:24:58,965 --> 00:25:00,867
PROBABLY BROUGHT THIS ALL TO

767
00:25:00,867 --> 00:25:02,902
LIFE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON SHE

768
00:25:02,902 --> 00:25:04,871
WAS FOUND, NUMBER ONE, AND IT

769
00:25:04,871 --> 00:25:06,238
OPENED THE CASE FOR

770
00:25:06,238 --> 00:25:09,041
HOLLY ANN HUGHES.

771
00:25:09,041 --> 00:25:10,810
>> CASES LIKE THIS NEVER GO

772
00:25:10,810 --> 00:25:11,343
AWAY.

773
00:25:11,343 --> 00:25:13,212
IT'S LIKE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY

774
00:25:13,212 --> 00:25:15,214
WAS JUST THROWN INTO CHAOS OVER

775
00:25:15,214 --> 00:25:15,715
THIS.

776
00:25:15,715 --> 00:25:17,416
YOU KNOW, HERE'S THIS GUY,

777
00:25:17,416 --> 00:25:19,451
ALLEGEDLY, GOING AROUND, PICKING

778
00:25:19,451 --> 00:25:21,187
OFF THESE KIDS.

779
00:25:21,187 --> 00:25:22,822
I MEAN, THERE ARE ALL THESE

780
00:25:22,822 --> 00:25:24,724
RUMORS THAT FLY ABOUT THE ISLAND

781
00:25:24,724 --> 00:25:26,525
ABOUT THIS GUY, AND THE MEDIA,

782
00:25:26,525 --> 00:25:28,427
YOU KNOW, HAVE PAINTED HIM AS AN

783
00:25:28,427 --> 00:25:31,497
ABSOLUTE FUCKING MONSTER.

784
00:25:31,497 --> 00:25:33,966
AND HE MAY VERY WELL BE.

785
00:25:33,966 --> 00:25:35,001
THERE'S NO PHYSICAL OR

786
00:25:35,001 --> 00:25:36,435
SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT I KNOW

787
00:25:36,435 --> 00:25:38,137
OF IN THIS CASE.

788
00:25:38,137 --> 00:25:39,806
THERE'S NO BODY.

789
00:25:39,806 --> 00:25:42,074
THEY HAVEN'T FOUND HER.

790
00:25:42,074 --> 00:25:43,776
IT'S ALL CIRCUMSTANTIAL.

791
00:25:45,712 --> 00:25:46,979
>> THEY'VE GONE.

792
00:25:46,979 --> 00:25:48,581
THEY'VE DUG UP GRAVES.

793
00:25:48,581 --> 00:25:50,249
THEY'VE GONE TO HIS OLD

794
00:25:50,249 --> 00:25:51,818
NEIGHBORHOOD.

795
00:25:51,818 --> 00:25:53,586
THEY SEARCHED HIS CAR.

796
00:25:53,586 --> 00:25:55,855
THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S COME UP.

797
00:25:55,855 --> 00:25:57,890
SO I'M COMPLETELY CONFIDENT

798
00:25:57,890 --> 00:25:59,959
THAT, YOU KNOW, HE DIDN'T DO

799
00:25:59,959 --> 00:26:00,526
THIS.

800
00:26:00,526 --> 00:26:02,394
>> SO WHY DO YOU THINK THE D.A.

801
00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:03,830
IS PURSUING THIS CASE?

802
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:05,497
>> MR. MURPHY JUST RECENTLY

803
00:26:05,497 --> 00:26:06,198
RETIRED.

804
00:26:06,198 --> 00:26:07,934
THIS WAS ONE OF HIS PROBABLY

805
00:26:07,934 --> 00:26:09,702
LAST, BIGGEST INVESTIGATIONS,

806
00:26:09,702 --> 00:26:11,537
THIS RAND CASE, AND PERHAPS HE

807
00:26:11,537 --> 00:26:13,439
WANTED TO PUT THIS BABY TO REST

808
00:26:13,439 --> 00:26:15,908
BEFORE HE LEFT OFFICE.

809
00:26:23,249 --> 00:26:25,517
>> I REMEMBER THE INADEQUACIES

810
00:26:25,517 --> 00:26:27,820
OF THE WITNESS' STATEMENTS BACK

811
00:26:27,820 --> 00:26:30,890
IN 1981 AND 1982.

812
00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:33,492
SOME OF THEM WERE OUT-AND-OUT

813
00:26:33,492 --> 00:26:36,262
ALCOHOLICS WHO JUST DIDN'T HAVE

814
00:26:36,262 --> 00:26:39,031
CLEAR RECOLLECTIONS OF WHAT WAS

815
00:26:39,031 --> 00:26:41,868
GOING ON FROM DAY TO DAY, BUT IN

816
00:26:41,868 --> 00:26:44,470
RECOVERY, THEIR MEMORIES WERE

817
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:45,571
IMPROVED.

818
00:26:45,571 --> 00:26:48,207
THAT THE ANDRE RAND STORY IS

819
00:26:48,207 --> 00:26:51,043
BEING TOLD IS SIMPLY AN EXAMPLE

820
00:26:51,043 --> 00:26:53,880
OF WHAT CAN BE DONE IF PEOPLE

821
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,347
REMAIN VIGILANT, REMAIN

822
00:26:55,347 --> 00:26:57,249
CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON

823
00:26:57,249 --> 00:27:02,588
AROUND THEM.

824
00:27:02,588 --> 00:27:04,223
>> 15 YEARS AFTER UNCOVERING THE

825
00:27:04,223 --> 00:27:05,624
BODY OF JENNIFER SCHWEIGER,

826
00:27:05,624 --> 00:27:07,226
DONNA CUTUGNO STILL DIGS AROUND

827
00:27:07,226 --> 00:27:08,394
THE GROUNDS OF THE OLD

828
00:27:08,394 --> 00:27:10,029
WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL, HOPING

829
00:27:10,029 --> 00:27:11,563
TO FIND EVIDENCE OF THE OTHER

830
00:27:11,563 --> 00:27:13,900
CHILDREN.

831
00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:15,434
SO, WHO DO YOU THINK WE'RE

832
00:27:15,434 --> 00:27:16,268
LOOKING FOR?

833
00:27:16,268 --> 00:27:17,970
>> WE'RE LOOKING FOR HOLLY AND

834
00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:20,472
ALICE AND THE REST OF THE

835
00:27:20,472 --> 00:27:21,073
CHILDREN.

836
00:27:21,073 --> 00:27:22,474
>> DO YOU THINK THEY'RE ALL

837
00:27:22,474 --> 00:27:23,242
BURIED HERE?

838
00:27:23,242 --> 00:27:24,643
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT

839
00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:25,077
ALICE.

840
00:27:25,077 --> 00:27:26,645
I DON'T REALLY FEEL THAT SHE'S

841
00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:27,079
HERE.

842
00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:28,715
I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE WOULD BE.

843
00:27:28,715 --> 00:27:30,983
BUT I THINK THAT...

844
00:27:30,983 --> 00:27:32,618
THE REST OF THEM, INCLUDING

845
00:27:32,618 --> 00:27:34,186
HANK, I THINK MAY BE HERE.

846
00:27:34,186 --> 00:27:34,687
YEAH.

847
00:27:34,687 --> 00:27:36,122
I CAN IMAGINE HOW OTHER

848
00:27:36,122 --> 00:27:37,857
PARENTS -- EVEN IF YOUR KID'S

849
00:27:37,857 --> 00:27:39,692
GONE FOR AN HOUR, I CAN IMAGINE

850
00:27:39,692 --> 00:27:41,427
HOW THEY MUST FEEL, YOU KNOW,

851
00:27:41,427 --> 00:27:42,294
NOT KNOWING.

852
00:27:42,294 --> 00:27:43,863
GOES BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL

853
00:27:43,863 --> 00:27:44,530
FEELING.

854
00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:46,132
COULD'VE BEEN MY CHILDREN.

855
00:27:46,132 --> 00:27:48,000
THEY'RE THE MOST PRECIOUS THING

856
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,802
IN MY LIFE, AND NO ONE'S GONNA

857
00:27:49,802 --> 00:27:51,537
TAKE MY KIDS AWAY FROM ME.

858
00:27:51,537 --> 00:27:51,938
>> HI.

859
00:27:51,938 --> 00:27:52,471
>> HI.

860
00:27:52,471 --> 00:27:54,040
YEAH, THIS IS DEVIN'S ROOM.

861
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,441
HE LOVES "STAR WARS" AND

862
00:27:55,441 --> 00:27:58,144
WORSHIPS GEORGE LUCAS.

863
00:27:58,144 --> 00:27:59,411
>> A LOT OF REASONS WHY MY

864
00:27:59,411 --> 00:28:00,947
CHILDREN WERE ALWAYS INVOLVED IN

865
00:28:00,947 --> 00:28:02,448
THESE THINGS WAS 'CAUSE I WAS SO

866
00:28:02,448 --> 00:28:03,482
AFRAID TO LEAVE THEM.

867
00:28:03,482 --> 00:28:04,150
[ LAUGHS ]

868
00:28:04,150 --> 00:28:05,217
THE WHOLE RAND THING.

869
00:28:05,217 --> 00:28:06,352
SUPPOSE HE GOT OUT ON A

870
00:28:06,352 --> 00:28:07,086
TECHNICALITY.

871
00:28:07,086 --> 00:28:08,254
WOULD HE COME AFTER ME?

872
00:28:08,254 --> 00:28:09,688
YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALWAYS IN THE

873
00:28:09,688 --> 00:28:13,192
BACK OF MY MIND, TILL THIS DAY.

874
00:28:13,192 --> 00:28:14,426
>> FOR YEARS, RAND HAD BEEN

875
00:28:14,426 --> 00:28:15,895
SHUFFLED AROUND VARIOUS NEW YORK

876
00:28:15,895 --> 00:28:17,229
STATE PRISONS, WHERE HE SHARED

877
00:28:17,229 --> 00:28:18,497
CELLBLOCKS WITH THE LIKES OF

878
00:28:18,497 --> 00:28:20,166
DAVID BERKOWITZ, A.K.A.

879
00:28:20,166 --> 00:28:22,201
SON OF SAM, AND CHILD KILLER

880
00:28:22,201 --> 00:28:24,436
JOEL STEINBERG.

881
00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:25,671
IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS, HE HAD

882
00:28:25,671 --> 00:28:26,973
BEEN MOVED TO RIKERS ISLAND FOR

883
00:28:26,973 --> 00:28:29,809
THE UPCOMING TRIAL.

884
00:28:29,809 --> 00:28:31,443
WE HAD SENT HIM LETTERS TRYING

885
00:28:31,443 --> 00:28:33,212
TO ARRANGE AN INTERVIEW BUT GOT

886
00:28:33,212 --> 00:28:34,013
NO RESPONSE.

887
00:28:34,013 --> 00:28:35,481
THEN ON THE DAY BARB AND I

888
00:28:35,481 --> 00:28:36,648
DECIDED TO VISIT HIM

889
00:28:36,648 --> 00:28:38,250
UNANNOUNCED, WE RECEIVED THIS

890
00:28:38,250 --> 00:28:40,119
LETTER.

891
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:41,487
WHAT DO YOU THINK IT SAYS?

892
00:28:41,487 --> 00:28:42,989
>> HE DOESN'T REALLY SPEAK TO

893
00:28:42,989 --> 00:28:44,590
ANYONE OTHER THAN HIS ATTORNEY,

894
00:28:44,590 --> 00:28:46,125
AND FOR YEARS HE HASN'T SPOKEN

895
00:28:46,125 --> 00:28:46,926
TO THE PRESS.

896
00:28:46,926 --> 00:28:48,394
NOBODY REALLY KNOWS ANYTHING

897
00:28:48,394 --> 00:28:49,295
ABOUT HIM.

898
00:28:49,295 --> 00:28:51,430
HE PUTS OUR PHONE NUMBER AT THE

899
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:53,299
TOP, AND HE WRITES, "PERSON

900
00:28:53,299 --> 00:28:55,267
ANSWERING THE CALL SHOULD BE

901
00:28:55,267 --> 00:28:56,102
'JOSHUA.'

902
00:28:56,102 --> 00:28:58,004
IF YOU WANT TO RECEIVE BULK

903
00:28:58,004 --> 00:29:00,106
MAILINGS FROM MR. RAND OVER THE

904
00:29:00,106 --> 00:29:02,308
NEXT FEW MONTHS, IT WILL NEED TO

905
00:29:02,308 --> 00:29:04,443
BE DONE BY SENDING RAND A LEGAL

906
00:29:04,443 --> 00:29:05,677
MAILING ADDRESS.

907
00:29:05,677 --> 00:29:07,279
THIS IS NOT SO MUCH AS

908
00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:09,415
CORRESPONDENCE, BUT MORE IN THE

909
00:29:09,415 --> 00:29:11,017
FORM OF DOCUMENTATION.

910
00:29:11,017 --> 00:29:13,119
NOTE, RAND WAS INFORMED BY HIS

911
00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:15,121
ATTORNEY TO ACCEPT ONLY LEGAL

912
00:29:15,121 --> 00:29:15,822
VISITS.

913
00:29:15,822 --> 00:29:17,857
RAND WILL NOT SPEAK TO YOU IN

914
00:29:17,857 --> 00:29:19,926
PERSON ANYTIME SOON BECAUSE OF

915
00:29:19,926 --> 00:29:20,993
POSSIBLE SUBPOENA."

916
00:29:20,993 --> 00:29:22,394
WHAT HE'S SAYING IS, "I'LL

917
00:29:22,394 --> 00:29:24,030
COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, AS LONG AS

918
00:29:24,030 --> 00:29:26,765
WE PLAY BY THE RULES."

919
00:29:43,015 --> 00:29:44,716
[ POLICE RADIO CHATTER ]

920
00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:56,228
>> UNLIKE MANY OTHER STATES,

921
00:29:56,228 --> 00:29:57,897
NEW YORK DOESN'T ALLOW CAMERAS

922
00:29:57,897 --> 00:29:59,431
IN THE COURTROOM, AND SO WE

923
00:29:59,431 --> 00:30:01,000
WOULD BE FORCED TO INTERVIEW

924
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,734
MANY WITNESSES OUT ON THE STREET

925
00:30:02,734 --> 00:30:04,036
OR GET OUR INFORMATION

926
00:30:04,036 --> 00:30:06,038
SECONDHAND.

927
00:30:06,038 --> 00:30:07,606
>> 17 YEARS, WE NEVER STOPPED

928
00:30:07,606 --> 00:30:08,640
TALKING ABOUT IT.

929
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,276
IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S AFFECTED

930
00:30:10,276 --> 00:30:11,710
EVERYBODY THAT I KNOW FROM

931
00:30:11,710 --> 00:30:12,945
STATEN ISLAND, CERTAINLY.

932
00:30:12,945 --> 00:30:14,146
>> EVERYBODY KNEW ABOUT

933
00:30:14,146 --> 00:30:14,813
ANDRE RAND.

934
00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:15,948
>> BUT NOT THE EXTENT.

935
00:30:15,948 --> 00:30:17,549
IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS, THEY

936
00:30:17,549 --> 00:30:18,985
DIDN'T REALLY THINK THEY WERE

937
00:30:18,985 --> 00:30:22,054
EVER GONNA CATCH HIM.

938
00:30:22,054 --> 00:30:23,890
>> THERE'S NO REASON FOR HIM TO

939
00:30:23,890 --> 00:30:25,657
EXIST ANYWHERE ELSE, YOU KNOW,

940
00:30:25,657 --> 00:30:27,894
OTHER THAN JAIL.

941
00:30:27,894 --> 00:30:29,962
>> THERE'S THAT GIGANTIC FEAR,

942
00:30:29,962 --> 00:30:32,031
YOU KNOW, WONDERING WHETHER OR

943
00:30:32,031 --> 00:30:34,100
NOT THE BOGEYMAN IS GONNA COME

944
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:35,801
GET THEIR KIDS.

945
00:30:56,155 --> 00:30:57,890
>> SO, THIS BUILDING IS WHERE

946
00:30:57,890 --> 00:30:59,725
HOLLY ANN HUGHES USED TO LIVE.

947
00:30:59,725 --> 00:31:01,527
ANDRE RAND'S AUNT USED TO LIVE

948
00:31:01,527 --> 00:31:03,162
ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF THAT

949
00:31:03,162 --> 00:31:04,363
BUILDING, AS WELL.

950
00:31:04,363 --> 00:31:06,098
HOLLY WAS OUTSIDE PLAYING ONE

951
00:31:06,098 --> 00:31:09,368
EVENING, AND ANDRE RAND WAS HERE

952
00:31:09,368 --> 00:31:10,169
TO VISIT.

953
00:31:10,169 --> 00:31:11,870
>> AND THEN GOT INTO HIS

954
00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:12,804
VOLKSWAGEN.

955
00:31:12,804 --> 00:31:14,706
APPARENTLY THEN HOLLY WALKED

956
00:31:14,706 --> 00:31:16,275
DOWN THIS STREET TO...

957
00:31:16,275 --> 00:31:21,547
>> THAT DELI RIGHT DOWN THERE.

958
00:31:21,547 --> 00:31:23,082
>> HOLLY WAS LAST SEEN AT THIS

959
00:31:23,082 --> 00:31:24,650
DELI, JUST DOWN THE STREET FROM

960
00:31:24,650 --> 00:31:25,284
HER HOME.

961
00:31:25,284 --> 00:31:26,885
A CLERK SAYS SHE CAME IN AT 9:30

962
00:31:26,885 --> 00:31:28,387
WEDNESDAY NIGHT WITH 27 CENTS

963
00:31:28,387 --> 00:31:30,122
AND BOUGHT A BAR OF SOAP.

964
00:31:30,122 --> 00:31:31,323
>> SHE'S A QUIET GIRL, YOU KNOW?

965
00:31:31,323 --> 00:31:32,291
SHE DIDN'T SAY NOTHING TO

966
00:31:32,291 --> 00:31:32,658
NOBODY.

967
00:31:32,658 --> 00:31:33,792
AND SHE JUST GOT HER THING AND

968
00:31:33,792 --> 00:31:34,126
LEFT.

969
00:31:34,126 --> 00:31:35,061
I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT

970
00:31:35,061 --> 00:31:36,062
HAPPENED AFTER THAT.

971
00:31:36,062 --> 00:31:37,363
I WORKED IN THE DELI THERE.

972
00:31:37,363 --> 00:31:38,130
GIRL COMES IN.

973
00:31:38,130 --> 00:31:39,331
>> WHO? HOLLY ANN HUGHES?

974
00:31:39,331 --> 00:31:40,299
>> HOLLY ANN. YEAH.

975
00:31:40,299 --> 00:31:41,700
>> SHE CAME IN. WHEN WAS THIS?

976
00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:42,601
THIS WAS IN 1981.

977
00:31:42,601 --> 00:31:43,669
>> 1981.

978
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:45,471
SHE WENT TO BUY A BAR OF SOAP.

979
00:31:45,471 --> 00:31:47,206
THE BAR OF SOAP WAS 31 CENTS.

980
00:31:47,206 --> 00:31:48,374
WHY DO I REMEMBER?

981
00:31:48,374 --> 00:31:49,976
BECAUSE SHE WAS SHORT FOUR

982
00:31:49,976 --> 00:31:50,376
CENTS.

983
00:31:50,376 --> 00:31:51,677
AND THE OLD MAN WORKING BEHIND

984
00:31:51,677 --> 00:31:53,079
THE COUNTER, HE WOULDN'T GIVE IT

985
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:53,512
TO HER.

986
00:31:53,512 --> 00:31:56,715
THAT'S WHY I REMEMBER.

987
00:31:56,715 --> 00:31:58,150
WHEN I SEEN HIS PICTURE, I SAID,

988
00:31:58,150 --> 00:31:59,285
"YEAH, I'VE SEEN THAT GUY

989
00:31:59,285 --> 00:31:59,751
BEFORE.

990
00:31:59,751 --> 00:32:01,120
YOU KNOW, HE'S LIKE A QUIET GUY

991
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:01,753
TO HIMSELF.

992
00:32:01,753 --> 00:32:02,754
HE DON'T LOOK RIGHT."

993
00:32:02,754 --> 00:32:04,056
LIKE I THINK HE TALKED WITH A

994
00:32:04,056 --> 00:32:05,391
SPEECH IMPEDIMENT, BUT I'M NOT

995
00:32:05,391 --> 00:32:05,824
SURE.

996
00:32:05,824 --> 00:32:07,193
>> AND DID ANYBODY ELSE EVER

997
00:32:07,193 --> 00:32:08,194
DISAPPEAR FROM THAT

998
00:32:08,194 --> 00:32:08,927
NEIGHBORHOOD?

999
00:32:08,927 --> 00:32:10,129
>> YEAH. HANK GAFFORIO.

1000
00:32:10,129 --> 00:32:11,530
LOOKED JUST LIKE MICK JAGGER.

1001
00:32:11,530 --> 00:32:12,631
DISAPPEARED FROM THAT

1002
00:32:12,631 --> 00:32:13,365
NEIGHBORHOOD.

1003
00:32:13,365 --> 00:32:14,533
>> HOW LONG AFTERWARDS?

1004
00:32:14,533 --> 00:32:15,467
>> THE SAME TIME.

1005
00:32:15,467 --> 00:32:16,802
HE WAS A LITTLE SLOW -- HANK.

1006
00:32:16,802 --> 00:32:18,137
HIS BROTHER SWEARS THAT

1007
00:32:18,137 --> 00:32:19,838
ANDRE RAND KILLED HIM.

1008
00:32:26,145 --> 00:32:27,579
>> THEY CAME TO ME ALL THOSE

1009
00:32:27,579 --> 00:32:28,214
YEARS AGO.

1010
00:32:28,214 --> 00:32:30,316
BUT THAT WAS 18 YEARS AGO.

1011
00:32:30,316 --> 00:32:31,483
AND THEY SAID, "WE NEED SOME

1012
00:32:31,483 --> 00:32:31,883
HELP."

1013
00:32:31,883 --> 00:32:33,019
>> HE WAS SUPPOSEDLY AT THE

1014
00:32:33,019 --> 00:32:34,286
DINER AT LIKE 3:00, 4:00 IN THE

1015
00:32:34,286 --> 00:32:35,387
MORNING WITH RAND.

1016
00:32:35,387 --> 00:32:36,722
A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE CAME

1017
00:32:36,722 --> 00:32:38,490
FORWARD -- A HANDFUL -- HANDFUL.

1018
00:32:38,490 --> 00:32:39,891
AND, AGAIN, HE WAS OLDER.

1019
00:32:39,891 --> 00:32:41,560
YOU KNOW, THAT HAD A LOT TO DO

1020
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:42,161
WITH IT.

1021
00:32:42,161 --> 00:32:45,631
HE WAS 21.

1022
00:32:45,631 --> 00:32:46,732
>> WE WERE WATCHING THIS

1023
00:32:46,732 --> 00:32:48,034
REPORTER STANDING IN FRONT OF

1024
00:32:48,034 --> 00:32:49,301
HOLLY ANN HUGHES' HOUSE, AND

1025
00:32:49,301 --> 00:32:50,436
RIGHT OFF HER SHOULDER IS

1026
00:32:50,436 --> 00:32:52,138
HANK GAFFORIO.

1027
00:32:52,138 --> 00:32:53,472
>> IT'D BE FUNNY TO SEE HIM POP

1028
00:32:53,472 --> 00:32:54,373
UP IN ONE OF THESE.

1029
00:32:54,373 --> 00:32:55,607
>> WE JUST WANT YOU TO BRING

1030
00:32:55,607 --> 00:32:59,411
HOLLY HOME.

1031
00:32:59,411 --> 00:33:00,279
[ SOBBING ]

1032
00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:02,248
>> THE TWO DAYS SINCE HOLLY ANN

1033
00:33:02,248 --> 00:33:03,282
DISAPPEARED...

1034
00:33:03,282 --> 00:33:06,552
>> THERE. THAT'S HANK GAFFORIO.

1035
00:33:06,552 --> 00:33:08,720
>> RIGHT THERE?

1036
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,122
>> YEAH.

1037
00:33:10,122 --> 00:33:17,129
>> THAT NUMBER AGAIN, 987-7935.

1038
00:33:17,129 --> 00:33:18,730
>> TOO MANY COINCIDENCES, YOU

1039
00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:19,198
KNOW?

1040
00:33:19,198 --> 00:33:20,832
AND LIKE I SAID, BEFORE I DIE,

1041
00:33:20,832 --> 00:33:22,434
I WOULD LOVE THIS GUY TO JUST

1042
00:33:22,434 --> 00:33:23,702
TALK TO ME, JUST ONCE.

1043
00:33:23,702 --> 00:33:25,337
AND ALL HE'S GOT TO DO IS JUST

1044
00:33:25,337 --> 00:33:26,905
GIVE SOMEBODY A NOTE AND SAY,

1045
00:33:26,905 --> 00:33:28,607
"THIS IS WHERE THEY'RE BURIED."

1046
00:33:28,607 --> 00:33:33,345
THAT'S ALL.

1047
00:33:33,345 --> 00:33:35,381
>> HE SENT US, I THINK, I GUESS

1048
00:33:35,381 --> 00:33:37,116
THE VIEW FROM HIS WINDOW.

1049
00:33:37,116 --> 00:33:39,085
THIS IS THE DECISION AND ORDER

1050
00:33:39,085 --> 00:33:40,352
FROM THE JUDGE...

1051
00:33:40,352 --> 00:33:41,620
>> IN THE CASE OF

1052
00:33:41,620 --> 00:33:42,954
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER?

1053
00:33:42,954 --> 00:33:44,056
>> NO, NO, NO.

1054
00:33:44,056 --> 00:33:45,591
THIS IS IN THE CASE OF

1055
00:33:45,591 --> 00:33:46,425
HOLLY ANN.

1056
00:33:46,425 --> 00:33:48,460
>> SO HE'S BASICALLY RESPONDING

1057
00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:50,529
TO EACH OF THE WITNESSES IN THE

1058
00:33:50,529 --> 00:33:52,098
LAST PRETRIAL HEARINGS.

1059
00:33:52,098 --> 00:33:53,399
>> TESTIMONY, RIGHT.

1060
00:33:53,399 --> 00:33:55,201
IT SAYS, "DETECTIVE LOTITO ASKED

1061
00:33:55,201 --> 00:33:56,735
THE DEFENDANT IF HE NOTICED

1062
00:33:56,735 --> 00:33:58,036
ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT

1063
00:33:58,036 --> 00:33:59,671
HOLLY ANN HUGHES AT THE TIME.

1064
00:33:59,671 --> 00:34:01,273
THE DEFENDANT SAID, 'SHE WAS

1065
00:34:01,273 --> 00:34:02,341
VERY, VERY DIRTY.

1066
00:34:02,341 --> 00:34:03,542
HER LEGS WERE DIRTY.

1067
00:34:03,542 --> 00:34:04,843
HER HANDS WERE DIRTY.'

1068
00:34:04,843 --> 00:34:06,545
HE GAVE HER MONEY AND SENT HER

1069
00:34:06,545 --> 00:34:08,180
TO THE GROCERY STORE TO BUY A

1070
00:34:08,180 --> 00:34:09,148
BAR OF SOAP.

1071
00:34:09,148 --> 00:34:11,117
THE COURT HERE IS CONTINUOUSLY

1072
00:34:11,117 --> 00:34:12,851
QUOTING THE DETECTIVES' OWN

1073
00:34:12,851 --> 00:34:14,253
INVENTED STATEMENTS.

1074
00:34:14,253 --> 00:34:16,222
THE DEFENDANT NEVER MET OR SAW

1075
00:34:16,222 --> 00:34:18,257
HUGHES AT ANY TIME, NOR DID THE

1076
00:34:18,257 --> 00:34:20,392
DEFENDANT ADMIT THESE THINGS."

1077
00:34:35,006 --> 00:34:36,842
THE ONLY WITNESS TODAY WAS

1078
00:34:36,842 --> 00:34:37,909
ELSIE CASTRO.

1079
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:40,112
SHE LIVED ACROSS THE STREET FROM

1080
00:34:40,112 --> 00:34:41,713
WHERE HOLLY ANN LIVED.

1081
00:34:41,713 --> 00:34:43,615
SHE SAYS ON HER SIDE OF THE

1082
00:34:43,615 --> 00:34:45,384
STREET, BUT ONE HOUSE UP,

1083
00:34:45,384 --> 00:34:46,652
THERE'S A GREEN VOLKSWAGEN.

1084
00:34:46,652 --> 00:34:48,019
SHE DOESN'T SEE ANYBODY IN THE

1085
00:34:48,019 --> 00:34:48,887
GREEN VOLKSWAGEN.

1086
00:34:48,887 --> 00:34:50,055
SHE GOES INTO THE HOUSE.

1087
00:34:50,055 --> 00:34:51,390
SHE GOES TO TAKE A SHOWER AND

1088
00:34:51,390 --> 00:34:53,492
DISCOVERS THAT THERE'S NO SOAP.

1089
00:34:53,492 --> 00:34:54,960
>> LARRY INTERVIEWED

1090
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:55,994
ELSIE CASTRO.

1091
00:34:55,994 --> 00:34:58,497
SHE SAW NOTHING.

1092
00:34:58,497 --> 00:35:00,232
BUT SHE CLAIMS SHE BOUGHT A

1093
00:35:00,232 --> 00:35:02,234
BAR OF SOAP AT THE STORE AND WAS

1094
00:35:02,234 --> 00:35:03,435
FIVE CENTS SHORT.

1095
00:35:03,435 --> 00:35:05,304
>> IT'S VERY COINCIDENTAL THAT

1096
00:35:05,304 --> 00:35:07,038
SHE WAS A NICKEL SHORT WHEN

1097
00:35:07,038 --> 00:35:08,740
HOLLY ANN WAS REPORTEDLY A

1098
00:35:08,740 --> 00:35:10,409
NICKEL SHORT, AS WELL, ALL

1099
00:35:10,409 --> 00:35:12,411
WITHIN THE TIME SPAN OF ABOUT AN

1100
00:35:12,411 --> 00:35:12,844
HOUR.

1101
00:35:12,844 --> 00:35:14,346
>> SO DO YOU THINK THE OTHER

1102
00:35:14,346 --> 00:35:15,547
WITNESS MISREMEMBERED?

1103
00:35:15,547 --> 00:35:16,482
>> I DON'T KNOW.

1104
00:35:16,482 --> 00:35:18,083
AND WHAT THAT SAYS, IF I DON'T

1105
00:35:18,083 --> 00:35:19,685
KNOW AND THE JURY DOESN'T KNOW,

1106
00:35:19,685 --> 00:35:21,220
THAT'S REASONABLE DOUBT.

1107
00:35:21,220 --> 00:35:22,688
>> THIS IS ELSIE'S CAR.

1108
00:35:22,688 --> 00:35:23,822
>> ELSIE CASTRO.

1109
00:35:23,822 --> 00:35:24,556
>> RIGHT.

1110
00:35:24,556 --> 00:35:26,057
HERE, THE KIDS WERE ALL BACK AND

1111
00:35:26,057 --> 00:35:26,992
FORTH AROUND HERE.

1112
00:35:26,992 --> 00:35:27,926
>> ON THAT CORNER.

1113
00:35:27,926 --> 00:35:29,361
AND WHERE WAS THE ACTUAL POINT

1114
00:35:29,361 --> 00:35:30,662
WHERE THEY BELIEVED SHE WAS

1115
00:35:30,662 --> 00:35:31,129
TAKEN?

1116
00:35:31,129 --> 00:35:32,398
>> WELL, THIS IS THE OTHER

1117
00:35:32,398 --> 00:35:32,831
THING.

1118
00:35:32,831 --> 00:35:36,235
WE'RE NOT SURE. LOOK AT THAT.

1119
00:35:36,235 --> 00:35:37,336
>> A VOLKSWAGEN.

1120
00:35:37,336 --> 00:35:39,505
>> HE CAME BACK TO SEE WHAT WAS

1121
00:35:39,505 --> 00:35:41,106
GOING ON.

1122
00:35:41,106 --> 00:35:43,942
ALL OF THE CRIMES THAT WE SEEM

1123
00:35:43,942 --> 00:35:46,912
TO LINK HIM TO ALL TOOK PLACE IN

1124
00:35:46,912 --> 00:35:49,515
JULY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF

1125
00:35:49,515 --> 00:35:50,916
TIAHEASE.

1126
00:35:50,916 --> 00:35:53,619
THIS WAS TIAHEASE -- TAI.

1127
00:36:04,530 --> 00:36:06,465
SHE LIVED WITH HER MOTHER, AND I

1128
00:36:06,465 --> 00:36:08,267
BELIEVE THERE WERE FOUR OTHER

1129
00:36:08,267 --> 00:36:10,101
SIBLINGS, AND THEY WERE ALL IN

1130
00:36:10,101 --> 00:36:11,837
ONE ROOM IN THE CONCA D'ORO.

1131
00:36:11,837 --> 00:36:13,605
IT WAS A WELFARE HOTEL AT THE

1132
00:36:13,605 --> 00:36:15,140
PARTICULAR TIME.

1133
00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:17,609
IT WAS AN AUGUST DAY, AND THE

1134
00:36:17,609 --> 00:36:19,945
OLDER BROTHER LEFT TIAHEASE

1135
00:36:19,945 --> 00:36:21,547
TALKING TO A MAN.

1136
00:36:21,547 --> 00:36:23,749
THAT MAN WAS DESCRIBED AS

1137
00:36:23,749 --> 00:36:26,485
SOMEONE THAT LOOKED LIKE ANDRE.

1138
00:36:26,485 --> 00:36:28,920
SHE'S NEVER BEEN SEEN AGAIN.

1139
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,290
THE EVIDENCE IS THE BODIES.

1140
00:36:31,290 --> 00:36:33,959
I'M SURE BURIED SOMEWHERE, HE'S

1141
00:36:33,959 --> 00:36:35,561
GOT THE EVIDENCE.

1142
00:36:35,561 --> 00:36:38,230
WE JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT IN THE

1143
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:40,499
WOODS YET.

1144
00:36:40,499 --> 00:36:42,601
>> SNIFF IT OUT.

1145
00:36:42,601 --> 00:36:43,569
WHATCHA GOT, BOY?

1146
00:36:43,569 --> 00:36:45,036
>> DONNA IS SEARCHING ONE OF

1147
00:36:45,036 --> 00:36:46,505
RAND'S FORMER CAMPSITES WITH

1148
00:36:46,505 --> 00:36:48,006
LUIS RIVERA, A RETIRED POLICE

1149
00:36:48,006 --> 00:36:49,541
OFFICER WHO HELPED SEARCH FOR

1150
00:36:49,541 --> 00:36:50,642
JENNIFER THE DAY SHE

1151
00:36:50,642 --> 00:36:55,113
DISAPPEARED.

1152
00:36:55,113 --> 00:36:57,316
>> FIND THE BODY, BOY.

1153
00:36:57,316 --> 00:36:58,149
FIND THE BODY.

1154
00:36:58,149 --> 00:36:58,917
SNIFF IT OUT.

1155
00:36:58,917 --> 00:37:00,719
SNIFF IT OUT.

1156
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,187
ONE BODY THAT I FOUND WITH MY

1157
00:37:02,187 --> 00:37:04,390
DOG WAS 22 YEARS IN THE GROUND.

1158
00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:06,825
SO THE POSSIBILITIES ARE REALLY

1159
00:37:06,825 --> 00:37:07,559
THERE.

1160
00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:09,761
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF COMING

1161
00:37:09,761 --> 00:37:12,264
BACK OUT, CONCENTRATING ON SMALL

1162
00:37:12,264 --> 00:37:15,200
AREAS AT A TIME.

1163
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,167
COME ON, BOY.

1164
00:37:16,167 --> 00:37:17,135
COME ON, BOY.

1165
00:37:17,135 --> 00:37:18,103
SNIFF IT OUT.

1166
00:37:18,103 --> 00:37:19,137
FIND THE BODY, BOY.

1167
00:37:19,137 --> 00:37:20,606
>> WHERE DO YOU THINK MOST OF

1168
00:37:20,606 --> 00:37:21,473
THESE KIDS ARE?

1169
00:37:21,473 --> 00:37:23,208
>> IT'S HARD TO SAY.

1170
00:37:23,208 --> 00:37:25,877
THEY'RE BURIED...

1171
00:37:25,877 --> 00:37:28,179
SOMEWHERE IN STATEN ISLAND.

1172
00:37:28,179 --> 00:37:29,815
>> DETECTIVE FRANK SAEZ IS ONE

1173
00:37:29,815 --> 00:37:31,417
OF THE FOREMOST EXPERTS ON THE

1174
00:37:31,417 --> 00:37:33,018
COLD CASES OF NEW YORK CITY'S

1175
00:37:33,018 --> 00:37:34,019
MISSING CHILDREN.

1176
00:37:34,019 --> 00:37:35,554
>> I MEAN, HE COULD COME AND

1177
00:37:35,554 --> 00:37:39,057
SAY, "LISTEN," SOMEDAY, "I'LL

1178
00:37:39,057 --> 00:37:40,826
GIVE YOU THE BODIES," AND TAKE

1179
00:37:40,826 --> 00:37:42,694
YOU TO A LOCATION, AND YOU COULD

1180
00:37:42,694 --> 00:37:45,864
BE SHOCKED WHERE IT'S AT.

1181
00:37:45,864 --> 00:37:47,299
>> IF YOU LOOK AROUND, YOU CAN

1182
00:37:47,299 --> 00:37:48,667
ACTUALLY SEE THE PERIMETER OF

1183
00:37:48,667 --> 00:37:49,301
THIS AREA.

1184
00:37:49,301 --> 00:37:50,436
AND THIS WAS ONE OF HIS

1185
00:37:50,436 --> 00:37:51,370
CAMPSITES.

1186
00:37:51,370 --> 00:37:53,539
THIS DID NOT HAVE A LEAN-TO OR

1187
00:37:53,539 --> 00:37:55,807
A LATRINE OR ANYTHING SET UP THE

1188
00:37:55,807 --> 00:37:58,043
WAY THE CAMPSITE AT WILLOWBROOK

1189
00:37:58,043 --> 00:38:00,278
DID, BUT KIDS DID SAY THAT THEY

1190
00:38:00,278 --> 00:38:02,448
WOULD SEE HIM SITTING IN HERE.

1191
00:38:02,448 --> 00:38:04,616
SO, THIS WAS WHERE HE LIVED IN

1192
00:38:04,616 --> 00:38:06,985
THE WARMER MONTHS.

1193
00:38:06,985 --> 00:38:08,954
>> SEEK IT OUT.

1194
00:38:08,954 --> 00:38:11,122
SEEK IT OUT, BOY.

1195
00:38:11,122 --> 00:38:13,359
>> THEY SAY THE DEATH OF A CHILD

1196
00:38:13,359 --> 00:38:15,260
IS THE WORST POSSIBLE CRIME

1197
00:38:15,260 --> 00:38:17,062
ANYBODY CAN EVER IMAGINE.

1198
00:38:17,062 --> 00:38:18,196
>> ABSOLUTELY.

1199
00:38:18,196 --> 00:38:20,231
BUT THE MISSING OF A CHILD IS

1200
00:38:20,231 --> 00:38:22,167
EVEN WORSE, BECAUSE IF YOUR

1201
00:38:22,167 --> 00:38:24,269
CHILD DIES AND YOU BURY HIM OR

1202
00:38:24,269 --> 00:38:26,304
HER, THEN AT LEAST YOU HAVE A

1203
00:38:26,304 --> 00:38:28,273
PLACE THAT YOU CAN GO TO.

1204
00:38:28,273 --> 00:38:30,576
WHEN YOUR CHILD DISAPPEARS AND

1205
00:38:30,576 --> 00:38:32,944
YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CHILD

1206
00:38:32,944 --> 00:38:35,046
IS, TO A PARENT, A CHILD IS

1207
00:38:35,046 --> 00:38:37,416
NEVER DEAD UNTIL AN OFFICER CAN

1208
00:38:37,416 --> 00:38:39,651
ACTUALLY BRING THE REMAINS TO

1209
00:38:39,651 --> 00:38:41,853
THEM.

1210
00:38:41,853 --> 00:38:43,489
>> SOMEBODY'S USING THIS AREA

1211
00:38:43,489 --> 00:38:43,955
HERE.

1212
00:38:43,955 --> 00:38:45,524
>> SEE, WHEN YOU FIND THINGS

1213
00:38:45,524 --> 00:38:49,160
LIKE ARTICLES OF CLOTHING, LIKE

1214
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,698
THIS IS A KID'S SHOE, SHAMPOO,

1215
00:38:52,698 --> 00:38:56,468
TAPE...

1216
00:38:56,468 --> 00:38:58,136
LUIS!

1217
00:38:58,136 --> 00:38:59,571
COME ON BACK.

1218
00:38:59,571 --> 00:39:01,573
OKAY, THERE'S SHOES, DUCT TAPE,

1219
00:39:01,573 --> 00:39:06,778
AND LOOK HOW SOFT THE GROUND IS.

1220
00:39:06,778 --> 00:39:08,313
IT'S REAL SOFT.

1221
00:39:08,313 --> 00:39:09,314
>> YEAH.

1222
00:39:09,314 --> 00:39:11,383
SNIFF IT OUT.

1223
00:39:11,383 --> 00:39:14,052
SNIFF IT OUT, BOY.

1224
00:39:14,052 --> 00:39:18,590
DIG IT OUT, BOY.

1225
00:39:18,590 --> 00:39:19,925
>> IT'S AREAS LIKE THIS THAT WE

1226
00:39:19,925 --> 00:39:21,292
WOULD DIG, JUST TO SEE, BECAUSE

1227
00:39:21,292 --> 00:39:22,628
THAT LOOKS A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS.

1228
00:39:22,628 --> 00:39:24,329
YOU NEVER KNOW.

1229
00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:33,238
>> SO, THIS CORRECTIONS OFFICER

1230
00:39:33,238 --> 00:39:34,406
KEEPS SAYING ON THE BUS EVERY

1231
00:39:34,406 --> 00:39:35,541
MORNING THAT RAND SAYS HE'S

1232
00:39:35,541 --> 00:39:37,709
INNOCENT AND HE DIDN'T DO IT.

1233
00:39:37,709 --> 00:39:39,778
AND THE CORRECTIONS OFFICER

1234
00:39:39,778 --> 00:39:42,080
SAYS, "THEN CONSIDER YOURSELF A

1235
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,915
MARTYR FOR THE SAFETY OF

1236
00:39:43,915 --> 00:39:44,816
CHILDREN.

1237
00:39:44,816 --> 00:39:48,487
AND THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE."

1238
00:39:48,487 --> 00:39:49,855
>> HOLLY ANN'S BROTHER,

1239
00:39:49,855 --> 00:39:51,490
ED ARMSTRONG, TOOK THE STAND

1240
00:39:51,490 --> 00:39:52,023
TODAY.

1241
00:39:52,023 --> 00:39:53,859
HE WAS 14 YEARS OLD WHEN HE LAST

1242
00:39:53,859 --> 00:39:55,527
SAW HIS SISTER ON THE DAY SHE

1243
00:39:55,527 --> 00:39:56,361
DISAPPEARED.

1244
00:39:56,361 --> 00:39:57,829
SINCE THEN, HE'S BECOME A

1245
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:58,897
LIEUTENANT IN THE

1246
00:39:58,897 --> 00:40:00,466
NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT.

1247
00:40:00,466 --> 00:40:02,200
HE'S ALSO BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN

1248
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,103
BRINGING THIS CASE TO TRIAL.

1249
00:40:05,103 --> 00:40:06,672
>> IF HE HAS ANY HUMANITY LEFT

1250
00:40:06,672 --> 00:40:08,139
IN HIS SOUL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE

1251
00:40:08,139 --> 00:40:09,575
HE'LL SEE THAT THERE WAS AN

1252
00:40:09,575 --> 00:40:11,009
ERROR IN HIS WAY, AND, YOU

1253
00:40:11,009 --> 00:40:12,611
KNOW, I COULD FORGIVE HIM IF HE

1254
00:40:12,611 --> 00:40:13,979
RETURNED THE REMAINS OF MY

1255
00:40:13,979 --> 00:40:14,513
SISTER.

1256
00:40:14,513 --> 00:40:16,081
AND THAT'S ALL WE EVER WANTED.

1257
00:40:16,081 --> 00:40:17,616
YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T CARE IF WE

1258
00:40:17,616 --> 00:40:19,117
EVER GOT A DAY EXTRA ADDED TO

1259
00:40:19,117 --> 00:40:19,918
HIS SENTENCE.

1260
00:40:19,918 --> 00:40:21,319
ALL I EVER WANTED WERE THE

1261
00:40:21,319 --> 00:40:22,454
REMAINS OF MY SISTER.

1262
00:40:22,454 --> 00:40:24,122
IF HE'S GOT ANYTHING LEFT, HE'LL

1263
00:40:24,122 --> 00:40:30,596
DO THAT FOR US.

1264
00:40:30,596 --> 00:40:31,863
>> HERE'S HOLLY ANN.

1265
00:40:31,863 --> 00:40:33,632
>> YOU WERE INVOLVED IN ALL OF

1266
00:40:33,632 --> 00:40:34,666
THESE SEARCHES?

1267
00:40:34,666 --> 00:40:38,570
>> OH, YEAH, YEAH.

1268
00:40:38,570 --> 00:40:39,805
>> HOW LONG DO YOU THINK YOU

1269
00:40:39,805 --> 00:40:42,708
SEARCHED FOR HER FOR?

1270
00:40:42,708 --> 00:40:43,975
>> [ SIGHS ] FOR YEARS.

1271
00:40:43,975 --> 00:40:46,512
[ CHUCKLES ]

1272
00:40:46,512 --> 00:40:48,279
"WILL THE UNLUCKY 7 EVER TURN

1273
00:40:48,279 --> 00:40:50,115
UP?"

1274
00:40:50,115 --> 00:40:51,282
RUSHAN, HIS NAME WAS --

1275
00:40:51,282 --> 00:40:53,785
R-U-S-H-A-N.

1276
00:40:53,785 --> 00:40:56,287
AND HE CHANGED IT TO RAND.

1277
00:40:56,287 --> 00:40:57,923
THIS IS ONE WHERE JENNIFER WAS

1278
00:40:57,923 --> 00:40:58,524
MISSING.

1279
00:40:58,524 --> 00:41:00,025
>> DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY

1280
00:41:00,025 --> 00:41:01,727
CREDENCE IN THE IDEA THAT MAYBE

1281
00:41:01,727 --> 00:41:03,261
JENNIFER WAS REBURIED AT THE

1282
00:41:03,261 --> 00:41:03,895
CAMPSITE?

1283
00:41:03,895 --> 00:41:05,564
>> THEY FOUND HER WITH THE HEAD

1284
00:41:05,564 --> 00:41:07,165
DOWN, I THINK IT WAS, AND THE

1285
00:41:07,165 --> 00:41:08,800
BLOOD WAS IN THE FEET, LIKE SHE

1286
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,835
WAS REPOSITIONED.

1287
00:41:09,835 --> 00:41:12,003
>> SO WHO DO YOU THINK MAYBE...

1288
00:41:12,003 --> 00:41:13,238
>> THAT'S WHY WE THOUGHT THERE

1289
00:41:13,238 --> 00:41:14,372
MIGHT HAVE BEEN OTHER PEOPLE

1290
00:41:14,372 --> 00:41:17,175
INVOLVED.

1291
00:41:17,175 --> 00:41:18,777
>> THE RUMORS SURROUNDING THE

1292
00:41:18,777 --> 00:41:19,978
MISSING CHILDREN WERE

1293
00:41:19,978 --> 00:41:20,846
OVERWHELMING.

1294
00:41:20,846 --> 00:41:22,480
SOME BELIEVED THAT RAND DIDN'T

1295
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,215
ACT ALONE, THAT HE HAD HELP FROM

1296
00:41:24,215 --> 00:41:25,917
ONE OF THE HOMELESS OR A FORMER

1297
00:41:25,917 --> 00:41:27,318
PATIENT FROM WILLOWBROOK.

1298
00:41:27,318 --> 00:41:29,054
OTHERS THOUGHT HE WAS FRAMED AND

1299
00:41:29,054 --> 00:41:30,689
THAT THE REAL KILLER WAS STILL

1300
00:41:30,689 --> 00:41:33,625
OUT THERE.

1301
00:41:33,625 --> 00:41:35,226
THE ONLY PERSON WHO KNEW THE

1302
00:41:35,226 --> 00:41:36,595
TRUTH WAS RAND HIMSELF.

1303
00:41:36,595 --> 00:41:38,429
FOR WEEKS WE HAD BEEN EXCHANGING

1304
00:41:38,429 --> 00:41:40,131
LETTERS IN HOPES OF GETTING AN

1305
00:41:40,131 --> 00:41:45,136
INTERVIEW.

1306
00:41:45,136 --> 00:41:46,905
BUT RAND REFUSED TO GIVE US ANY

1307
00:41:46,905 --> 00:41:47,739
INFORMATION.

1308
00:41:47,739 --> 00:41:49,140
HE FELT ALL THE UNWANTED

1309
00:41:49,140 --> 00:41:50,676
ATTENTION WOULD EXPOSE THE

1310
00:41:50,676 --> 00:41:52,377
NATURE OF HIS SUSPECTED CRIMES

1311
00:41:52,377 --> 00:41:54,045
TO HIS FELLOW INMATES AND PUT

1312
00:41:54,045 --> 00:41:55,313
HIS LIFE IN JEOPARDY.

1313
00:41:55,313 --> 00:41:56,748
"A VIDEO INTERVIEW WHILE

1314
00:41:56,748 --> 00:41:58,216
INCARCERATED IS LIKELY TO

1315
00:41:58,216 --> 00:41:59,885
INSTIGATE VIOLENT AND JEALOUS

1316
00:41:59,885 --> 00:42:01,553
ACTIONS, DETRIMENT TO MY LIFE

1317
00:42:01,553 --> 00:42:03,354
AND/OR PROPERTY AS CAUSED BY THE

1318
00:42:03,354 --> 00:42:03,989
PRESS."

1319
00:42:03,989 --> 00:42:05,791
>> SINCE RAND WOULDN'T SPEAK

1320
00:42:05,791 --> 00:42:07,593
WITH US, WE HAD TO FOLLOW ANY

1321
00:42:07,593 --> 00:42:08,259
LEAD...

1322
00:42:08,259 --> 00:42:09,427
[ KNOCK ON DOOR ]

1323
00:42:09,427 --> 00:42:11,162
...FIND ANYONE WHO MIGHT HAVE

1324
00:42:11,162 --> 00:42:13,531
KNOWN HIM IN THE PAST.

1325
00:42:13,531 --> 00:42:14,465
HEY, I'M LOOKING FOR

1326
00:42:14,465 --> 00:42:15,166
RICHARD FREAR.

1327
00:42:15,166 --> 00:42:16,034
DOES HE LIVE HERE?

1328
00:42:16,034 --> 00:42:17,002
HE DOESN'T LIVE HERE?

1329
00:42:17,002 --> 00:42:18,303
I THOUGHT HE LIVE-- HE DOESN'T

1330
00:42:18,303 --> 00:42:19,170
LIVE HERE ANYMORE?

1331
00:42:19,170 --> 00:42:19,771
HE USED TO.

1332
00:42:19,771 --> 00:42:20,538
>> WHO ARE THEY?

1333
00:42:20,538 --> 00:42:21,773
>> ALL PEOPLE WHO KNEW RAND.

1334
00:42:21,773 --> 00:42:22,974
>> HOW DID THEY KNOW RAND?

1335
00:42:22,974 --> 00:42:24,342
>> THROUGH DONNA'S NOTES, THEY

1336
00:42:24,342 --> 00:42:25,711
SAID, "OH, YOU KNOW, FRIEND OF

1337
00:42:25,711 --> 00:42:26,111
RAND.

1338
00:42:26,111 --> 00:42:28,213
KNEW RAND."

1339
00:42:28,213 --> 00:42:29,414
YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE ANY OF

1340
00:42:29,414 --> 00:42:30,081
THESE NAMES?

1341
00:42:30,081 --> 00:42:31,549
AND WILLY HAS PASSED AWAY THERE.

1342
00:42:31,549 --> 00:42:32,217
>> OH, OKAY.

1343
00:42:32,217 --> 00:42:32,718
>> OKAY.

1344
00:42:32,718 --> 00:42:34,620
DOES A GUY THOMAS LIVE HERE?

1345
00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:37,322
>> I WAS AROUND 6, 7 YEARS OLD,

1346
00:42:37,322 --> 00:42:39,991
AND WE WAS ALL OUTSIDE PLAYING

1347
00:42:39,991 --> 00:42:41,793
AT THE YMCA.

1348
00:42:41,793 --> 00:42:43,228
THE GUY WAS LIKE, "Y'ALL WANT TO

1349
00:42:43,228 --> 00:42:43,962
GO ON A TRIP?"

1350
00:42:43,962 --> 00:42:45,263
THIS IS THE PLACE RIGHT HERE,

1351
00:42:45,263 --> 00:42:45,664
YMCA.

1352
00:42:45,664 --> 00:42:46,798
HE HAD A BUS RIGHT HERE.

1353
00:42:46,798 --> 00:42:48,033
IT WAS PARKED RIGHT HERE AT

1354
00:42:48,033 --> 00:42:48,566
THE TIME.

1355
00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:49,567
I'LL NEVER FORGET IT.

1356
00:42:49,567 --> 00:42:50,736
WE ALL HOPPED ON THE BUS.

1357
00:42:50,736 --> 00:42:51,903
WE DIDN'T KNOW NO BETTER.

1358
00:42:51,903 --> 00:42:53,271
WE WERE LITTLE KIDS, YOU KNOW?

1359
00:42:53,271 --> 00:42:53,772
>> YEAH.

1360
00:42:53,772 --> 00:42:55,040
>> HE SAID HE WAS JUST GONNA

1361
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,007
TAKE US TO THE PARK.

1362
00:42:56,007 --> 00:42:57,976
WE WOUND UP IN NEWARK AIRPORT.

1363
00:42:57,976 --> 00:42:59,945
SO THEN AFTER THAT, HE TOOK US

1364
00:42:59,945 --> 00:43:01,913
SOMEWHERE IN SOME PARK, WHICH

1365
00:43:01,913 --> 00:43:03,248
IT WAS PITCH-BLACK.

1366
00:43:03,248 --> 00:43:04,850
I THINK IT WAS WILLOWBROOK PARK

1367
00:43:04,850 --> 00:43:05,617
AT THE TIME.

1368
00:43:05,617 --> 00:43:06,384
PITCH-BLACK.

1369
00:43:06,384 --> 00:43:07,819
WE WERE ALL RUNNING AROUND,

1370
00:43:07,819 --> 00:43:09,154
PLAYING HIDE AND SEEK AND

1371
00:43:09,154 --> 00:43:09,888
EVERYTHING.

1372
00:43:09,888 --> 00:43:11,389
COME TO FIND OUT WE WERE BEING

1373
00:43:11,389 --> 00:43:12,924
KIDNAPPED, AND WE DIDN'T EVEN

1374
00:43:12,924 --> 00:43:14,525
HAVE A CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON.

1375
00:43:14,525 --> 00:43:16,127
I THINK HE ATTEMPTED SOMETHING

1376
00:43:16,127 --> 00:43:17,796
THAT HE COULDN'T ACCOMPLISH, AND

1377
00:43:17,796 --> 00:43:19,497
I THINK IT, LIKE, DAWNED ON HIM,

1378
00:43:19,497 --> 00:43:21,132
LIKE, "I CAN'T DO IT LIKE THIS.

1379
00:43:21,132 --> 00:43:22,701
LET ME, LIKE, TAKE MY STEPS."

1380
00:43:22,701 --> 00:43:24,335
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE DID.

1381
00:43:24,335 --> 00:43:25,937
HE WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, "LET ME

1382
00:43:25,937 --> 00:43:26,938
WORK ON MY PREY."

1383
00:43:26,938 --> 00:43:29,407
AND THAT'S WHAT HE DID.

1384
00:43:29,407 --> 00:43:30,842
>> WHILE SOME RESIDENTS WERE

1385
00:43:30,842 --> 00:43:32,210
CONVINCED OF RAND'S GUILT,

1386
00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:33,444
OTHERS WEREN'T SO SURE.

1387
00:43:33,444 --> 00:43:34,112
EXCUSE ME.

1388
00:43:34,112 --> 00:43:35,747
DO YOU GUYS KNOW A THOMAS MICOL?

1389
00:43:35,747 --> 00:43:36,514
>> THAT'S ME.

1390
00:43:36,514 --> 00:43:37,248
>> OH, HEY.

1391
00:43:37,248 --> 00:43:38,684
>> I WORKED WITH ANDRE RAND.

1392
00:43:38,684 --> 00:43:40,085
>> CAN WE TALK TO YOU FOR A

1393
00:43:40,085 --> 00:43:40,986
COUPLE MINUTES?

1394
00:43:40,986 --> 00:43:41,552
>> SURE.

1395
00:43:41,552 --> 00:43:42,988
THEY SAY THAT HE WAS TOTALLY

1396
00:43:42,988 --> 00:43:44,355
FRAMED FOR THAT, THAT THEY

1397
00:43:44,355 --> 00:43:47,258
COMBED THAT AREA...

1398
00:43:47,258 --> 00:43:49,260
LIKE WITH A FINE-TOOTH COMB.

1399
00:43:49,260 --> 00:43:51,296
AFTER THEY ARRESTED ANDRE RAND,

1400
00:43:51,296 --> 00:43:53,231
THEY COMBED IT AGAIN, AND NOW

1401
00:43:53,231 --> 00:43:55,233
HER BODY IS THERE, VERY EASILY

1402
00:43:55,233 --> 00:43:56,201
TO BE FOUND.

1403
00:43:56,201 --> 00:43:57,435
SO YOU KNOW WHAT?

1404
00:43:57,435 --> 00:43:59,270
I WOULD THINK THAT MAYBE HE

1405
00:43:59,270 --> 00:44:00,706
DIDN'T DO IT EITHER.

1406
00:44:00,706 --> 00:44:02,573
SOMEBODY WHO DID DO IT MOVED

1407
00:44:02,573 --> 00:44:04,475
THE BODY THERE TO FRAME HIM.

1408
00:44:04,475 --> 00:44:06,244
>> I THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST

1409
00:44:06,244 --> 00:44:08,113
TRYING TO PIN IT ON SOMEBODY,

1410
00:44:08,113 --> 00:44:10,048
AND THEY WERE GONNA BLAME HIM,

1411
00:44:10,048 --> 00:44:12,017
BECAUSE HE WAS THIS LONER, AND,

1412
00:44:12,017 --> 00:44:14,052
YOU KNOW, HE KIND OF LOOKED, YOU

1413
00:44:14,052 --> 00:44:16,321
KNOW, A LITTLE SCARY.

1414
00:44:16,321 --> 00:44:17,923
>> SEARCHING THROUGH OLD FILES,

1415
00:44:17,923 --> 00:44:19,324
WE CAME ACROSS THE NAME OF

1416
00:44:19,324 --> 00:44:20,025
BOB GRAHAM.

1417
00:44:20,025 --> 00:44:21,492
THE NOTES HAD INDICATED THAT

1418
00:44:21,492 --> 00:44:23,128
HE KNEW RAND AND AT ONE TIME HAD

1419
00:44:23,128 --> 00:44:24,429
BEEN AN EARLY SUSPECT IN

1420
00:44:24,429 --> 00:44:25,764
JENNIFER'S DISAPPEARANCE.

1421
00:44:25,764 --> 00:44:27,098
>> HE BRIEFLY WORKED AT A

1422
00:44:27,098 --> 00:44:28,767
HAMBURGER JOINT ON FOREST AVENUE

1423
00:44:28,767 --> 00:44:30,268
CALLED WESTLEY'S, AND WHEN WE

1424
00:44:30,268 --> 00:44:31,536
USED TO STREET-RACE AND

1425
00:44:31,536 --> 00:44:33,171
DRAG-RACE BACK IN THE LATE '60s,

1426
00:44:33,171 --> 00:44:34,605
EARLY '70s, WE USED TO HIDE

1427
00:44:34,605 --> 00:44:35,106
THERE.

1428
00:44:35,106 --> 00:44:36,674
HE HAD THE PAPER HAT ON, AND HE

1429
00:44:36,674 --> 00:44:38,309
WAS SWEEPING UP THE PARKING LOT,

1430
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:39,811
OR HE WAS BEHIND THE COUNTER,

1431
00:44:39,811 --> 00:44:41,412
YOU KNOW, PUTTING CHEESE ON THE

1432
00:44:41,412 --> 00:44:42,280
BURGERS.

1433
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,750
AND HE HAD THIS VOLKSWAGEN THAT

1434
00:44:44,750 --> 00:44:46,852
I NOTICED WAS IN THE WEEDS

1435
00:44:46,852 --> 00:44:48,486
BEHIND WILLOWBROOK.

1436
00:44:48,486 --> 00:44:49,654
HE WAS LIVING IN THE CAR;

1437
00:44:49,654 --> 00:44:51,089
THERE WAS A PATHWAY DOWN THERE.

1438
00:44:51,089 --> 00:44:52,390
AND I HEARD THINGS ABOUT THE

1439
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:54,826
TUNNEL NETWORK UNDER WILLOWBROOK

1440
00:44:54,826 --> 00:44:55,593
STATE SCHOOL.

1441
00:44:55,593 --> 00:44:57,062
IT WAS SET UP LIKE A HUB WITH

1442
00:44:57,062 --> 00:44:57,562
SPOKES.

1443
00:44:57,562 --> 00:44:58,964
YOU COULD GET, SAY, FROM THE

1444
00:44:58,964 --> 00:45:00,365
CAFETERIA OUT TO EVERY WARD.

1445
00:45:00,365 --> 00:45:01,733
HE COULD SURVIVE DOWN THERE

1446
00:45:01,733 --> 00:45:03,234
BECAUSE HE HAD WORKED THERE AT

1447
00:45:03,234 --> 00:45:03,735
ONE TIME.

1448
00:45:03,735 --> 00:45:05,003
>> SO, WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE

1449
00:45:05,003 --> 00:45:05,904
LIVING IN THE WOODS?

1450
00:45:05,904 --> 00:45:07,105
>> THERE'S A LOT OF THEM OUT

1451
00:45:07,105 --> 00:45:07,973
HERE, NOT JUST HIM.

1452
00:45:07,973 --> 00:45:09,140
THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM OUT

1453
00:45:09,140 --> 00:45:09,507
HERE.

1454
00:45:09,507 --> 00:45:13,611
>> THERE'S SOMETHING UP THERE.

1455
00:45:13,611 --> 00:45:14,946
LOOK, MAYBE THIS IS WHAT

1456
00:45:14,946 --> 00:45:16,014
HE'S TALKING ABOUT.

1457
00:45:16,014 --> 00:45:17,482
THERE'S A TUNNEL.

1458
00:45:17,482 --> 00:45:19,584
GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN HERE.

1459
00:45:19,584 --> 00:45:21,652
>> THERE'S A CITY UNDER A CITY.

1460
00:45:21,652 --> 00:45:23,221
BETWEEN THE RATS RUNNING AROUND

1461
00:45:23,221 --> 00:45:24,655
AND THE SEWER WATER THAT HAD

1462
00:45:24,655 --> 00:45:26,624
SEEPED IN AND...

1463
00:45:26,624 --> 00:45:28,059
THE DIRTY CLOTHES AND --

1464
00:45:28,059 --> 00:45:31,429
>> RACKS OF CLOTHES, COTS.

1465
00:45:31,429 --> 00:45:33,131
>> IT'S AN OLD WHEELCHAIR.

1466
00:45:33,131 --> 00:45:34,966
>> WOW. THAT'S PRETTY CRAZY.

1467
00:45:34,966 --> 00:45:37,068
>> OBVIOUSLY, MEN, WOMEN, AND

1468
00:45:37,068 --> 00:45:39,304
CHILDREN WERE LIVING DOWN THERE,

1469
00:45:39,304 --> 00:45:40,906
INCLUDING ANDRE RAND.

1470
00:45:40,906 --> 00:45:43,041
>> YEAH, HE HAD HIS OWN LITTLE

1471
00:45:43,041 --> 00:45:44,309
CIRCLE OF FRIENDS THERE.

1472
00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:45,777
>> LOOK. ALL THESE HAVE THESE

1473
00:45:45,777 --> 00:45:47,212
HOLES IN IT, AND THEY'RE ALL

1474
00:45:47,212 --> 00:45:48,780
REALLY CLEAN FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE

1475
00:45:48,780 --> 00:45:49,114
IN.

1476
00:45:49,114 --> 00:45:50,148
LOOK AT THAT FLOOR.

1477
00:45:50,148 --> 00:45:51,549
THAT FLOOR HAS BEEN TOTALLY

1478
00:45:51,549 --> 00:45:52,951
WIPED CLEAN.

1479
00:45:52,951 --> 00:45:54,820
>> ANDRE RAND HAD THIS SORT OF

1480
00:45:54,820 --> 00:45:58,689
REALLY LOW-CLASS, WHITE-TRASH

1481
00:45:58,689 --> 00:46:01,159
VERSION OF JIM JONES GOING.

1482
00:46:01,159 --> 00:46:04,429
SOMEHOW, HE MANAGED TO GET

1483
00:46:04,429 --> 00:46:05,396
PEOPLE TO FOLLOW HIM.

1484
00:46:05,396 --> 00:46:06,531
>> WHO WERE THEY, THOUGH?

1485
00:46:06,531 --> 00:46:07,698
>> WELL, HE HAD SOME OTHER

1486
00:46:07,698 --> 00:46:11,002
HOMELESS.

1487
00:46:11,002 --> 00:46:13,538
>> SOMEBODY'S BEEN STAYING HERE.

1488
00:46:13,538 --> 00:46:15,841
CREAM OF MUSHROOM SOUP, OLD

1489
00:46:15,841 --> 00:46:16,674
DISHES.

1490
00:46:16,674 --> 00:46:19,044
>> FLOWERS.

1491
00:46:19,044 --> 00:46:21,312
>> I REMEMBER ONE DAY, WE FOUND

1492
00:46:21,312 --> 00:46:23,614
A MATTRESS WITH MEN'S RAZORS AND

1493
00:46:23,614 --> 00:46:25,851
A TOOTHBRUSH AND MEN'S CLOTHING

1494
00:46:25,851 --> 00:46:28,053
WITH ONE PAIR OF LITTLE GIRL'S

1495
00:46:28,053 --> 00:46:29,320
PANTIES.

1496
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,923
>> I THINK THAT HE WAS PASSING

1497
00:46:31,923 --> 00:46:34,225
THE CHILDREN AROUND TO HIS

1498
00:46:34,225 --> 00:46:36,828
FRIENDS, WHO WERE JUST AS SICK

1499
00:46:36,828 --> 00:46:38,229
AS HIM.

1500
00:46:38,229 --> 00:46:39,898
>> SO, DO YOU THINK RAND WAS THE

1501
00:46:39,898 --> 00:46:41,066
ONLY ONE RESPONSIBLE?

1502
00:46:41,066 --> 00:46:43,501
>> IN JENNIFER'S KILLING?

1503
00:46:43,501 --> 00:46:44,970
>> NO, I DON'T THINK HE COULD

1504
00:46:44,970 --> 00:46:46,404
HAVE DONE IT ALL BY HIMSELF.

1505
00:46:46,404 --> 00:46:47,973
>> THEY TOLD US A LOT OF STRANGE

1506
00:46:47,973 --> 00:46:48,539
STORIES.

1507
00:46:48,539 --> 00:46:49,941
THEY TOLD US STRANGE THINGS

1508
00:46:49,941 --> 00:46:51,509
ABOUT ANDRE WE COULD NEVER PROVE

1509
00:46:51,509 --> 00:46:52,243
OR DISPROVE.

1510
00:46:52,243 --> 00:46:53,644
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HAVING

1511
00:46:53,644 --> 00:46:54,745
SEX WITH DEAD PEOPLE.

1512
00:46:54,745 --> 00:46:56,181
THERE'S A STORY, WHETHER YOU

1513
00:46:56,181 --> 00:46:57,582
HEARD THAT ONE OR NOT.

1514
00:46:57,582 --> 00:46:59,450
>> THE THING THAT ANDRE USED TO

1515
00:46:59,450 --> 00:47:01,352
DO IS USED TO DIG UP DEAD BODIES

1516
00:47:01,352 --> 00:47:04,389
IN THE CEMETERY AND HAD SEX WITH

1517
00:47:04,389 --> 00:47:06,624
THESE BODIES.

1518
00:47:06,624 --> 00:47:08,226
>> DID YOU FIND IT STRANGE THAT

1519
00:47:08,226 --> 00:47:09,427
THERE WAS KIND OF THIS

1520
00:47:09,427 --> 00:47:10,896
UNDERBELLY TO STATEN ISLAND?

1521
00:47:10,896 --> 00:47:12,463
>> I WOULD'VE NEVER GUESSED THE

1522
00:47:12,463 --> 00:47:13,899
AMOUNT OF WEIRDOS LIVING ON

1523
00:47:13,899 --> 00:47:15,433
STATEN ISLAND THAT I RAN INTO.

1524
00:47:15,433 --> 00:47:17,002
>> YOU KNOW, WHY AREN'T PEOPLE

1525
00:47:17,002 --> 00:47:21,272
AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

1526
00:47:21,272 --> 00:47:23,141
>> TO THOSE WHO EVEN REMOTELY

1527
00:47:23,141 --> 00:47:24,775
KNEW ANDRE RAND, HE WAS A

1528
00:47:24,775 --> 00:47:25,977
COMPLETE MYSTERY.

1529
00:47:25,977 --> 00:47:28,013
THE MORE WE TRIED TO LEARN ABOUT

1530
00:47:28,013 --> 00:47:29,647
HIM, THE MORE BIZARRE THE

1531
00:47:29,647 --> 00:47:32,117
STORIES BECAME.

1532
00:47:32,117 --> 00:47:33,518
IT WAS BECOMING HARDER FOR US

1533
00:47:33,518 --> 00:47:35,586
TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

1534
00:47:35,586 --> 00:47:37,622
THE FACTS...

1535
00:47:37,622 --> 00:47:39,324
AND THE FOLKLORE.

1536
00:47:56,274 --> 00:47:58,343
>> IN AN ALMOST REPLAY OF RAND'S

1537
00:47:58,343 --> 00:48:00,345
FIRST TRIAL, THE PROSECUTION IS

1538
00:48:00,345 --> 00:48:02,413
ONCE AGAIN RELYING ON EYEWITNESS

1539
00:48:02,413 --> 00:48:07,285
TESTIMONY TO PROVE ITS CASE.

1540
00:48:07,285 --> 00:48:09,387
SOME OF THOSE WHO TESTIFIED WERE

1541
00:48:09,387 --> 00:48:11,122
FORMER ALCOHOLICS OR DRUG

1542
00:48:11,122 --> 00:48:13,024
ADDICTS WHO NOW SAY THEY CAN

1543
00:48:13,024 --> 00:48:15,126
RECALL THE DETAILS OF THAT NIGHT

1544
00:48:15,126 --> 00:48:21,967
OVER 20 YEARS AGO.

1545
00:48:21,967 --> 00:48:23,701
>> BURNS CHANGED HIS STORY BACK

1546
00:48:23,701 --> 00:48:25,303
AND FORTH, BUT BASICALLY HE'S

1547
00:48:25,303 --> 00:48:25,971
DRINKING.

1548
00:48:25,971 --> 00:48:27,072
HE SEES HOLLY ANN.

1549
00:48:27,072 --> 00:48:28,739
HE SEES RAND TALKING TO HOLLY.

1550
00:48:28,739 --> 00:48:30,375
HE WAS THE FIRST WITNESS THAT

1551
00:48:30,375 --> 00:48:33,078
PUT RAND NEXT TO HOLLY ANN.

1552
00:48:33,078 --> 00:48:34,579
>> SO IN THAT 17 YEARS, HE NEVER

1553
00:48:34,579 --> 00:48:35,280
CAME FORWARD?

1554
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,381
>> NEVER CAME FORWARD.

1555
00:48:36,381 --> 00:48:37,715
THAT WAS THE KEY PART OF OUR

1556
00:48:37,715 --> 00:48:38,149
CROSS.

1557
00:48:38,149 --> 00:48:38,883
THAT WAS KEY.

1558
00:48:38,883 --> 00:48:40,885
NEVER CAME FORWARD.

1559
00:48:40,885 --> 00:48:42,320
>> OTHER WITNESSES COULD PROVIDE

1560
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:43,688
ONLY THE VAGUEST OF DETAILS IN

1561
00:48:43,688 --> 00:48:44,522
THEIR TESTIMONY.

1562
00:48:44,522 --> 00:48:46,257
>> WHAT WAS HE LIKE?

1563
00:48:46,257 --> 00:48:48,159
>> OH, YOU DON'T WANT TO MEET

1564
00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:48,659
HIM.

1565
00:48:48,659 --> 00:48:49,794
HE WAS A CREEP.

1566
00:48:49,794 --> 00:48:50,461
>> WHY?

1567
00:48:50,461 --> 00:48:52,497
>> 'CAUSE HE LOOKED LIKE HE WAS

1568
00:48:52,497 --> 00:48:55,300
A KILLER.

1569
00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:56,567
I JUST SAID WHAT I HAD TO SAY,

1570
00:48:56,567 --> 00:48:57,235
AND THAT'S IT.

1571
00:48:57,235 --> 00:48:58,369
>> DID YOU SEE ANYTHING THE

1572
00:48:58,369 --> 00:48:59,270
NIGHT THAT HOLLY ANN

1573
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:59,870
DISAPPEARED?

1574
00:48:59,870 --> 00:49:01,206
>> YEAH, I HEARD A SCREAM, AND I

1575
00:49:01,206 --> 00:49:03,341
HEARD HER SAY, "LET ME GO."

1576
00:49:03,341 --> 00:49:05,676
>> WE HAD PEOPLE THAT THAT HELD

1577
00:49:05,676 --> 00:49:07,712
BACK INFORMATION THAT WE'RE

1578
00:49:07,712 --> 00:49:10,115
FINDING OUT TODAY THAT WERE DRUG

1579
00:49:10,115 --> 00:49:12,050
ADDICTS, DOPE DEALERS.

1580
00:49:12,050 --> 00:49:13,384
>> WHAT DID YOU NEED THAT YOU

1581
00:49:13,384 --> 00:49:14,052
DIDN'T HAVE?

1582
00:49:14,052 --> 00:49:15,420
>> WE NEEDED TO PUT HER IN THE

1583
00:49:15,420 --> 00:49:15,753
CAR.

1584
00:49:15,753 --> 00:49:16,921
>> TO PUT HER IN THE CAR?

1585
00:49:16,921 --> 00:49:17,455
>> RIGHT.

1586
00:49:17,455 --> 00:49:18,589
>> AND YOU HAD NO ACTUAL

1587
00:49:18,589 --> 00:49:20,058
WITNESSES TO PUT HER IN THE CAR?

1588
00:49:20,058 --> 00:49:21,026
>> NOT AT THAT TIME.

1589
00:49:21,026 --> 00:49:22,393
>> HE PULLED UP IN HIS LITTLE,

1590
00:49:22,393 --> 00:49:23,828
GREEN CAR, ASKED US IF WE WANTED

1591
00:49:23,828 --> 00:49:24,895
CANDY.

1592
00:49:24,895 --> 00:49:25,896
SHE WENT TO GO GET IT.

1593
00:49:25,896 --> 00:49:27,232
SHE PUT HER ARM IN THE CAR AS HE

1594
00:49:27,232 --> 00:49:28,533
OPENED UP THE DOOR, AND THAT'S

1595
00:49:28,533 --> 00:49:30,601
THE LAST I'VE EVER SEEN OF HER.

1596
00:49:30,601 --> 00:49:32,103
>> IN A SURPRISING TURN OF

1597
00:49:32,103 --> 00:49:33,871
EVENTS, TANYA GOODSON WAS CALLED

1598
00:49:33,871 --> 00:49:34,739
TO THE STAND.

1599
00:49:34,739 --> 00:49:36,374
A PLAYMATE OF HOLLY ANN'S WHO

1600
00:49:36,374 --> 00:49:37,742
WAS 6 AT THE TIME, TANYA

1601
00:49:37,742 --> 00:49:39,344
TESTIFIED THAT SHE SAW RAND,

1602
00:49:39,344 --> 00:49:40,845
WEARING A MASK AND HOLDING

1603
00:49:40,845 --> 00:49:42,513
CANDY, PULL HOLLY ANN INTO HIS

1604
00:49:42,513 --> 00:49:42,913
CAR.

1605
00:49:42,913 --> 00:49:44,515
SO, WHEN YOU SAID WHEN HE TOOK

1606
00:49:44,515 --> 00:49:46,184
HOLLY ANN HE WAS WEARING A MASK.

1607
00:49:46,184 --> 00:49:47,285
TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

1608
00:49:47,285 --> 00:49:48,819
>> THE MASK I DON'T REMEMBER.

1609
00:49:48,819 --> 00:49:50,255
ALL I KNOW IS HIS FACE WAS

1610
00:49:50,255 --> 00:49:50,821
COVERED.

1611
00:49:50,821 --> 00:49:52,157
I COULDN'T SEE HIS FACE.

1612
00:49:52,157 --> 00:49:53,758
>> SO IT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN A

1613
00:49:53,758 --> 00:49:55,293
MASK, JUST LIKE MAYBE HIS HAT

1614
00:49:55,293 --> 00:49:56,294
PULLED DOWN OR --

1615
00:49:56,294 --> 00:49:57,662
>> NO, HIS WHOLE FACE WAS

1616
00:49:57,662 --> 00:49:58,229
COVERED.

1617
00:49:58,229 --> 00:49:59,730
>> BUT WHEN HE SAID, "DO YOU

1618
00:49:59,730 --> 00:50:01,299
WANT CANDY?" DID HE LOOK THAT

1619
00:50:01,299 --> 00:50:02,700
BIZARRE, WITH THE MASK AND

1620
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:03,201
STUFF?

1621
00:50:03,201 --> 00:50:04,469
>> HE LOOKED SCARY.

1622
00:50:04,469 --> 00:50:06,271
>> SO, YOU KNEW JENNIFER, AND

1623
00:50:06,271 --> 00:50:07,538
YOU KNEW HOLLY ANN?

1624
00:50:07,538 --> 00:50:09,440
>> YEAH. I KNEW A BUNCH OF THEM

1625
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:10,875
THAT HE HAD KIDNAPPED.

1626
00:50:10,875 --> 00:50:12,710
>> DID YOU KNOW HANK GAFFORIO?

1627
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:14,345
>> THAT ONE I DIDN'T KNOW.

1628
00:50:14,345 --> 00:50:16,181
I KNEW LATISHA.

1629
00:50:16,181 --> 00:50:16,747
>> TIAHEASE?

1630
00:50:16,747 --> 00:50:17,582
>> TIAHEASE JACKSON?

1631
00:50:17,582 --> 00:50:18,015
>> YEAH.

1632
00:50:18,015 --> 00:50:19,117
>> ALL THESE PEOPLE YOU KNEW

1633
00:50:19,117 --> 00:50:20,351
GROWING UP ON STATEN ISLAND, AND

1634
00:50:20,351 --> 00:50:21,419
THEY ALL WERE DISAPPEARING.

1635
00:50:21,419 --> 00:50:23,821
WHAT DID YOU THINK?

1636
00:50:23,821 --> 00:50:25,456
>> I DIDN'T THINK ANYTHING

1637
00:50:25,456 --> 00:50:26,991
BECAUSE I WAS TOO YOUNG.

1638
00:50:26,991 --> 00:50:28,893
AND NOW THAT I AM OLDER, I CAME

1639
00:50:28,893 --> 00:50:30,861
HERE TO DO WHAT I GOT TO DO, AND

1640
00:50:30,861 --> 00:50:33,264
I FEEL A WHOLE LOT BETTER NOW.

1641
00:50:38,903 --> 00:50:40,004
>> MR. RAND, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO

1642
00:50:40,004 --> 00:50:40,871
SAY TO THE STATEN ISLAND

1643
00:50:40,871 --> 00:50:41,906
COMMUNITY?

1644
00:50:47,678 --> 00:50:50,381
[ CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING ]

1645
00:51:11,836 --> 00:51:14,004
>> AND THAT'S 675 TYSENS LANE.

1646
00:51:14,004 --> 00:51:15,506
>> THIS IS IT, YEAH.

1647
00:51:15,506 --> 00:51:17,208
>> 30 YEARS AGO.

1648
00:51:26,651 --> 00:51:28,619
ALICE LIVED HERE WITH...

1649
00:51:28,619 --> 00:51:31,021
>> HER MOTHER, WHO HAD MULTIPLE

1650
00:51:31,021 --> 00:51:33,324
SCLEROSIS, WAS ABOUT 26 YEARS

1651
00:51:33,324 --> 00:51:35,426
OLD AT THE TIME.

1652
00:51:35,426 --> 00:51:36,694
AND, OF COURSE, THERE'S

1653
00:51:36,694 --> 00:51:38,263
ANDRE RAND, WOULD STAND RIGHT

1654
00:51:38,263 --> 00:51:39,930
THERE ALL THE TIME, RIGHT WHERE

1655
00:51:39,930 --> 00:51:40,731
THAT DOOR IS.

1656
00:51:40,731 --> 00:51:42,267
AND HE WAS A MAINTENANCE MAN

1657
00:51:42,267 --> 00:51:42,700
HERE.

1658
00:51:42,700 --> 00:51:44,302
>> AND WHERE WAS THE FATHER AT

1659
00:51:44,302 --> 00:51:44,969
THE TIME?

1660
00:51:44,969 --> 00:51:46,237
>> THEY WERE SEPARATED.

1661
00:51:46,237 --> 00:51:47,805
THEY WERE SEPARATED FOR ABOUT

1662
00:51:47,805 --> 00:51:49,440
THREE YEARS, AND THAT'S WHY THE

1663
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:50,908
DETECTIVES THOUGHT THAT THE

1664
00:51:50,908 --> 00:51:52,377
FATHER MIGHT HAVE TAKEN THE

1665
00:51:52,377 --> 00:51:52,877
CHILD.

1666
00:51:52,877 --> 00:51:54,412
AND SO THEY DID NOT FOCUS ON

1667
00:51:54,412 --> 00:51:55,913
THE CHILD BEING KIDNAPPED BY

1668
00:51:55,913 --> 00:51:57,615
SOME DEVIATE.

1669
00:52:06,924 --> 00:52:08,859
WE JUST WANT CLOSURE, ALL OF US.

1670
00:52:08,859 --> 00:52:10,261
THAT'S ALL.

1671
00:52:10,261 --> 00:52:12,663
>> OF COURSE.

1672
00:52:12,663 --> 00:52:15,333
>> IT'S BEEN SO MANY YEARS.

1673
00:52:15,333 --> 00:52:17,768
IT'S LIKE EVERYBODY FORGOT.

1674
00:52:23,241 --> 00:52:24,909
>> HE SENT A PICTURE OF HIS

1675
00:52:24,909 --> 00:52:26,110
RIKERS ISLAND I.D.

1676
00:52:26,110 --> 00:52:27,912
"DEAR BARBARA, YOU KNOW THAT I

1677
00:52:27,912 --> 00:52:29,514
CANNOT ANSWER MANY OF YOUR

1678
00:52:29,514 --> 00:52:30,981
QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

1679
00:52:30,981 --> 00:52:32,850
THE DOCUMENTARY FILM YOU PUT SO

1680
00:52:32,850 --> 00:52:34,785
MUCH FAITH INTO WILL NEVER STAND

1681
00:52:34,785 --> 00:52:36,587
UP TO THE EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE

1682
00:52:36,587 --> 00:52:37,422
IN MY BOOK.

1683
00:52:37,422 --> 00:52:39,290
YOU MIGHT MEAN WELL, BUT LATER,

1684
00:52:39,290 --> 00:52:41,091
OTHER MOVIEMAKERS WILL PICK UP

1685
00:52:41,091 --> 00:52:42,360
WHERE YOU LEFT OFF.

1686
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,262
AS LONG AS I'M IN PRISON, I WILL

1687
00:52:44,262 --> 00:52:46,096
GIVE THE MOVIEMAKERS REASON TO

1688
00:52:46,096 --> 00:52:47,865
PORTRAY ME AS AN EVIL PERSON.

1689
00:52:47,865 --> 00:52:49,367
YOU SEE, EVILNESS SELLS.

1690
00:52:49,367 --> 00:52:51,269
THAT'S THE NAME OF THEIR GAME."

1691
00:52:51,269 --> 00:52:52,503
>> RAND WAS RIGHT.

1692
00:52:52,503 --> 00:52:54,305
THE EVIL, NOT HARD FACTS, WAS

1693
00:52:54,305 --> 00:52:55,606
PUSHING THIS TRIAL.

1694
00:52:55,606 --> 00:52:57,174
BUT THEN THE COINCIDENCES

1695
00:52:57,174 --> 00:52:58,509
COULDN'T BE IGNORED.

1696
00:52:58,509 --> 00:53:00,077
WE KNEW WE HAD TO GET AN

1697
00:53:00,077 --> 00:53:02,046
INTERVIEW, BUT NOW, IN EXCHANGE,

1698
00:53:02,046 --> 00:53:03,681
RAND WAS PUSHING FOR US TO

1699
00:53:03,681 --> 00:53:05,950
PROCLAIM HIS INNOCENCE.

1700
00:53:05,950 --> 00:53:07,818
"BARBARA, TYPE ME AN EXACT LIST

1701
00:53:07,818 --> 00:53:09,720
OF THE QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS

1702
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:11,489
YOU'RE GOING TO ASK ME DURING

1703
00:53:11,489 --> 00:53:15,826
YOUR DOCUMENTARY."

1704
00:53:15,826 --> 00:53:17,262
>> THIS IS, I THINK, THE ROUTE

1705
00:53:17,262 --> 00:53:20,665
THAT HE TOOK HOLLY ANN ON.

1706
00:53:20,665 --> 00:53:22,800
ALL THE CLUES LED US RIGHT ALONG

1707
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:24,168
HERE, RIGHT UP INTO

1708
00:53:24,168 --> 00:53:25,570
BARON HIRSCH.

1709
00:53:25,570 --> 00:53:27,872
>> SO HE HAD A CAMPSITE IN HERE?

1710
00:53:27,872 --> 00:53:31,242
>> WE THINK IT WAS HIS.

1711
00:53:31,242 --> 00:53:32,643
SHE COULD BE IN ONE OF THESE

1712
00:53:32,643 --> 00:53:33,578
GRAVES OVER HERE.

1713
00:53:33,578 --> 00:53:35,012
IF HE HAD A BAR OR SOMETHING,

1714
00:53:35,012 --> 00:53:36,547
HE COULD'VE MOVED A LID OVER,

1715
00:53:36,547 --> 00:53:37,982
PUT THE BODY IN THERE WITH AN

1716
00:53:37,982 --> 00:53:39,284
OLDER BODY, AND COVERED IT

1717
00:53:39,284 --> 00:53:40,851
BACK UP AGAIN, AND NOBODY'D EVER

1718
00:53:40,851 --> 00:53:41,452
FIND HER.

1719
00:53:41,452 --> 00:53:43,020
'CAUSE A LOT OF THESE ARE LOOSE.

1720
00:53:43,020 --> 00:53:43,521
>> RIGHT.

1721
00:53:43,521 --> 00:53:44,755
>> THERE'S A BODY DOWN BELOW

1722
00:53:44,755 --> 00:53:45,155
THERE.

1723
00:53:45,155 --> 00:53:46,457
I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEP THEY BURY

1724
00:53:46,457 --> 00:53:48,393
THEM.

1725
00:53:48,393 --> 00:53:50,127
>> THESE ARE ALL CHILDREN.

1726
00:53:50,127 --> 00:53:52,062
>> AT FIRST, WE WERE THINKING

1727
00:53:52,062 --> 00:53:54,031
MAYBE HE SOLD THEM TO USE FOR

1728
00:53:54,031 --> 00:53:56,100
CULT ACTIVITIES OR WHATEVER, YOU

1729
00:53:56,100 --> 00:53:56,667
KNOW?

1730
00:53:56,667 --> 00:53:57,502
>> REALLY?

1731
00:53:57,502 --> 00:53:59,203
YOU THINK IT'S DEFINITELY

1732
00:53:59,203 --> 00:54:00,104
LEGITIMATE?

1733
00:54:00,104 --> 00:54:01,506
>> I WOULDN'T DOUBT IT.

1734
00:54:01,506 --> 00:54:03,341
>> I MEAN, WHAT MADE YOU BELIEVE

1735
00:54:03,341 --> 00:54:04,742
THAT THAT WAS GOING ON?

1736
00:54:04,742 --> 00:54:06,511
>> WELL, WE HAD THE SON OF SAM

1737
00:54:06,511 --> 00:54:07,745
OUT THERE, YOU KNOW?

1738
00:54:07,745 --> 00:54:09,447
THAT GOES INTO CULTS IN A BIG

1739
00:54:09,447 --> 00:54:09,814
WAY.

1740
00:54:09,814 --> 00:54:11,248
>> I GUESS, ONLY BECAUSE THAT'S

1741
00:54:11,248 --> 00:54:12,750
SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE THOUGHT OF

1742
00:54:12,750 --> 00:54:13,918
BACK THEN, 20 YEARS AGO.

1743
00:54:13,918 --> 00:54:14,785
MAYBE NOT TODAY.

1744
00:54:14,785 --> 00:54:16,220
>> THEY'RE STILL THINKING ABOUT

1745
00:54:16,220 --> 00:54:17,922
IT.

1746
00:54:27,332 --> 00:54:29,700
>> ANDRE WAS INTO THE DEVIL'S

1747
00:54:29,700 --> 00:54:31,702
CULT, AND BEING A NATIVE

1748
00:54:31,702 --> 00:54:33,771
STATEN ISLANDER, I REALLY

1749
00:54:33,771 --> 00:54:38,376
COULDN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH --

1750
00:54:38,376 --> 00:54:40,511
HOW BIG IT IS ON STATEN ISLAND.

1751
00:54:40,511 --> 00:54:42,313
WE WENT TO ONE ESTABLISHMENT

1752
00:54:42,313 --> 00:54:44,181
WHERE THE BASEMENT WAS SET UP

1753
00:54:44,181 --> 00:54:45,950
LIKE -- I GUESS WHAT THEY'D

1754
00:54:45,950 --> 00:54:47,885
CALL THE CHURCH, AND THEY USED

1755
00:54:47,885 --> 00:54:49,654
TO HOLD THEIR CEREMONIES ON

1756
00:54:49,654 --> 00:54:50,788
ACTUALLY THE OLD

1757
00:54:50,788 --> 00:54:52,390
WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL

1758
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:53,090
GROUNDS.

1759
00:54:53,090 --> 00:54:54,859
>> SO YOU DON'T THINK IT WAS

1760
00:54:54,859 --> 00:54:55,393
KIDS?

1761
00:54:55,393 --> 00:54:56,827
>> OH, DEFINITELY NOT.

1762
00:54:56,827 --> 00:54:57,895
DEFINITELY NOT.

1763
00:54:57,895 --> 00:54:59,897
I THINK IT WAS ADULTS THAT WOULD

1764
00:54:59,897 --> 00:55:01,332
HOLD THESE CEREMONIES.

1765
00:55:01,332 --> 00:55:03,200
AND I THINK ANDRE RAND AND HIS

1766
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:04,602
CREW WERE PART OF IT.

1767
00:55:04,602 --> 00:55:06,471
WHETHER INITIATED OR NOT, THEY

1768
00:55:06,471 --> 00:55:07,605
WERE PART OF IT.

1769
00:55:07,605 --> 00:55:09,507
>> IT'S HARD FOR US TO BELIEVE,

1770
00:55:09,507 --> 00:55:11,175
BUT IF YOU HAD TO CONVINCE

1771
00:55:11,175 --> 00:55:13,110
SOMEBODY THAT IT WAS REAL, WHAT

1772
00:55:13,110 --> 00:55:15,346
WOULD YOU SAY?

1773
00:55:15,346 --> 00:55:18,148
>> I WOULD SAY IS GET A COUPLE

1774
00:55:18,148 --> 00:55:20,885
OF HIS FRIENDS, SIT DOWN, AND

1775
00:55:20,885 --> 00:55:22,353
TALK TO THEM.

1776
00:55:22,353 --> 00:55:25,322
AND BY THEM JUST TALKING, YOU'LL

1777
00:55:25,322 --> 00:55:26,657
REALIZE HOW BAD IT WAS.

1778
00:55:26,657 --> 00:55:28,258
>> ONE TIME, I WAS INVITED TO

1779
00:55:28,258 --> 00:55:29,960
THE PRECINCT TO TALK TO THEM AS

1780
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,696
THEY RECORDED ME, AND THEY START

1781
00:55:31,696 --> 00:55:32,963
TELLING ME ABOUT DEVIL

1782
00:55:32,963 --> 00:55:34,565
WORSHIPPING ON STATEN ISLAND,

1783
00:55:34,565 --> 00:55:36,333
THAT MAYBE HE WAS A PART OF THIS

1784
00:55:36,333 --> 00:55:36,801
CULT.

1785
00:55:36,801 --> 00:55:38,102
AND I DIDN'T BELIEVE IT.

1786
00:55:38,102 --> 00:55:39,737
>> WHAT DID THEY THINK WAS GOING

1787
00:55:39,737 --> 00:55:40,104
ON?

1788
00:55:40,104 --> 00:55:41,539
>> THAT MAYBE SOME OF THESE

1789
00:55:41,539 --> 00:55:43,140
DEVIL WORSHIPPERS HAD SOMETHING

1790
00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:44,709
TO DO WITH THE KIDS VANISHING.

1791
00:55:44,709 --> 00:55:46,076
YOU CAN PAINT PARALLELS TO

1792
00:55:46,076 --> 00:55:47,612
ANYTHING AND SAY, "OH, YEAH."

1793
00:55:47,612 --> 00:55:50,581
YOU KNOW, I CAN TAKE A PICTURE

1794
00:55:50,581 --> 00:55:52,249
OF ANYBODY.

1795
00:55:52,249 --> 00:55:53,050
OKAY?

1796
00:55:53,050 --> 00:55:55,786
AND I CAN SAY, "THIS MAN IS A

1797
00:55:55,786 --> 00:55:59,023
MASS MURDERER."

1798
00:55:59,023 --> 00:56:01,091
AND THEY SAY, "YEAH, I CAN TELL!

1799
00:56:01,091 --> 00:56:02,026
I CAN TELL."

1800
00:56:02,026 --> 00:56:04,395
I COULD SAY, "THIS MAN RESCUED

1801
00:56:04,395 --> 00:56:06,431
SIX PEOPLE FROM A BURNING

1802
00:56:06,431 --> 00:56:07,465
BUILDING."

1803
00:56:07,465 --> 00:56:10,167
"I CAN TELL HE'S A GOOD MAN."

1804
00:56:27,117 --> 00:56:28,586
>> IN ADDITION TO THE POLICE

1805
00:56:28,586 --> 00:56:30,421
INVESTIGATION, OTHER EVIDENCE OF

1806
00:56:30,421 --> 00:56:32,122
CULT ACTIVITY HAD BEEN MAILED

1807
00:56:32,122 --> 00:56:33,390
TO JENNIFER'S FAMILY.

1808
00:56:33,390 --> 00:56:35,225
A MYSTERIOUS LETTER CLAIMED THAT

1809
00:56:35,225 --> 00:56:37,061
RAND HAD BEEN SUPPLYING CHILDREN

1810
00:56:37,061 --> 00:56:38,729
TO THE CHURCH OF THE PROCESS,

1811
00:56:38,729 --> 00:56:39,897
THE SAME CULT THAT

1812
00:56:39,897 --> 00:56:41,632
DAVID BERKOWITZ ALLEGED HELPED

1813
00:56:41,632 --> 00:56:43,100
HIM COMMIT THE SON OF SAM

1814
00:56:43,100 --> 00:56:43,768
MURDERS.

1815
00:56:43,768 --> 00:56:45,636
THIS ANONYMOUS LETTER WAS TRACED

1816
00:56:45,636 --> 00:56:47,538
BACK TO VERONICA LUEKEN, A LOCAL

1817
00:56:47,538 --> 00:56:49,206
WOMAN WITH HER OWN RELIGIOUS

1818
00:56:49,206 --> 00:56:51,542
FOLLOWING.

1819
00:56:51,542 --> 00:56:53,143
SO BASICALLY THIS GROUP RIGHT

1820
00:56:53,143 --> 00:56:54,679
DOWN OVER HERE, YOU KNOW, THEY

1821
00:56:54,679 --> 00:56:55,946
WROTE THESE LETTERS FROM

1822
00:56:55,946 --> 00:56:57,281
10/4/87, WHICH IS A COUPLE

1823
00:56:57,281 --> 00:56:58,415
MONTHS AFTER JENNIFER

1824
00:56:58,415 --> 00:56:59,016
DISAPPEARED.

1825
00:56:59,016 --> 00:57:00,217
"I THOUGHT I'D WRITE YOU THIS

1826
00:57:00,217 --> 00:57:01,452
NOTE TO TRY AND ENLIGHTEN YOU,

1827
00:57:01,452 --> 00:57:02,620
AT THE SAME TIME REASSURE YOU

1828
00:57:02,620 --> 00:57:03,888
ABOUT THE CRIMES THAT ARE BEING

1829
00:57:03,888 --> 00:57:04,922
COMMITTED ON THE ISLAND.

1830
00:57:04,922 --> 00:57:06,090
WELL, I DID A LITTLE CHECKING

1831
00:57:06,090 --> 00:57:07,357
ON THE RECENT DISAPPEARANCES AND

1832
00:57:07,357 --> 00:57:08,559
MURDERS OF THESE KIDS, AND IT

1833
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:09,694
LOOKS LIKE SOME OF THEM WERE

1834
00:57:09,694 --> 00:57:10,828
VICTIMS OF WHAT IS CALLED A

1835
00:57:10,828 --> 00:57:12,096
SATANIC BLACK MASS.

1836
00:57:12,096 --> 00:57:13,598
ANDRE RAND DID NOT KILL

1837
00:57:13,598 --> 00:57:14,364
JENNIFER.

1838
00:57:14,364 --> 00:57:16,066
ALL HE DID WAS BRING HER TO

1839
00:57:16,066 --> 00:57:16,867
THE COVEN.

1840
00:57:16,867 --> 00:57:18,636
TOO BAD THAT THEY COVERED IT

1841
00:57:18,636 --> 00:57:19,970
UP, BUT WHO WANTS TO ADMIT THAT

1842
00:57:19,970 --> 00:57:21,338
STATEN ISLAND IS LITERALLY GOING

1843
00:57:21,338 --> 00:57:21,839
TO HELL?

1844
00:57:21,839 --> 00:57:22,940
IT IS A PICNIC GROUND FOR

1845
00:57:22,940 --> 00:57:23,307
THEM.

1846
00:57:23,307 --> 00:57:24,542
THERE ARE BODIES BURIED THAT

1847
00:57:24,542 --> 00:57:26,343
WILL NEVER BE FOUND."

1848
00:57:26,343 --> 00:57:27,778
>> HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE, THE

1849
00:57:27,778 --> 00:57:28,679
LORD IS WITH THEE.

1850
00:57:28,679 --> 00:57:30,114
BLESSED ARE THOU AMONGST WOMEN,

1851
00:57:30,114 --> 00:57:31,516
AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF THY

1852
00:57:31,516 --> 00:57:32,216
WOMB, JESUS."

1853
00:57:32,216 --> 00:57:33,584
>> SO, CAN WE SPEAK TO YOU FOR

1854
00:57:33,584 --> 00:57:34,218
ONE MINUTE?

1855
00:57:34,218 --> 00:57:35,352
CAN YOU GIVE ME, LIKE, A

1856
00:57:35,352 --> 00:57:36,754
SUMMATION OF WHAT SHE SAID BACK

1857
00:57:36,754 --> 00:57:37,622
THEN?

1858
00:57:44,529 --> 00:57:45,663
DO YOU BELIEVE IT ACTUALLY GOES

1859
00:57:45,663 --> 00:57:46,363
ON?

1860
00:57:50,167 --> 00:57:51,502
SO, I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT IF

1861
00:57:51,502 --> 00:57:52,570
YOU COULD SPEAK FOR YOUR

1862
00:57:52,570 --> 00:57:54,539
ORGANIZATION.

1863
00:57:54,539 --> 00:57:54,905
>> OKAY.

1864
00:57:54,905 --> 00:57:55,940
>> 'CAUSE YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT

1865
00:57:55,940 --> 00:57:56,641
THEM?

1866
00:58:04,715 --> 00:58:05,783
>> DO YOU THINK THEY'RE ALL

1867
00:58:05,783 --> 00:58:07,585
AROUND US?

1868
00:58:07,585 --> 00:58:09,153
>> ...THE LORD IS WITH THEE.

1869
00:58:09,153 --> 00:58:10,721
>> THIS IS THE TRANSCRIPTION

1870
00:58:10,721 --> 00:58:12,022
FROM AN INTERVIEW THAT

1871
00:58:12,022 --> 00:58:13,524
DETECTIVES IN 1988 DID WITH

1872
00:58:13,524 --> 00:58:15,159
ANDRE RAND WHILE HE WAS UP IN

1873
00:58:15,159 --> 00:58:16,727
SING SING.

1874
00:58:16,727 --> 00:58:18,896
FOR THE FIRST...

1875
00:58:18,896 --> 00:58:21,766
HALF AN HOUR, THEY DISCUSS DEVIL

1876
00:58:21,766 --> 00:58:22,533
WORSHIPPING.

1877
00:58:22,533 --> 00:58:24,201
"SO YOU WERE CAMPING OUT WHEN HE

1878
00:58:24,201 --> 00:58:25,670
TOLD YOU THAT THERE MIGHT BE

1879
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:26,971
SATANIC GOINGS-ON IN THE

1880
00:58:26,971 --> 00:58:27,972
WILLOWBROOK AREA?

1881
00:58:27,972 --> 00:58:29,707
NOW IT'S 1987, AND YOU HEAR

1882
00:58:29,707 --> 00:58:31,041
ABOUT THIS CULT OPERATING AROUND

1883
00:58:31,041 --> 00:58:32,209
THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD, HUMAN

1884
00:58:32,209 --> 00:58:32,810
SACRIFICES.

1885
00:58:32,810 --> 00:58:33,944
DIDN'T YOU SAY TO YOURSELF,

1886
00:58:33,944 --> 00:58:35,145
'MAYBE THEY'RE THE ONES THAT

1887
00:58:35,145 --> 00:58:36,246
SNATCHED THAT LITTLE GIRL?'

1888
00:58:36,246 --> 00:58:38,148
DID THAT OCCUR TO YOU?"

1889
00:58:38,148 --> 00:58:39,416
SO, WHEN YOU WENT UP TO

1890
00:58:39,416 --> 00:58:41,051
SING SING IN '98, YOU DISCUSSED

1891
00:58:41,051 --> 00:58:42,620
WITH HIM NUMEROUS THINGS ABOUT

1892
00:58:42,620 --> 00:58:43,654
DEVIL WORSHIPPING?

1893
00:58:43,654 --> 00:58:45,455
>> [ CHUCKLES ]

1894
00:58:45,455 --> 00:58:49,026
WELL...

1895
00:58:49,026 --> 00:58:51,528
IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS LOOKED

1896
00:58:51,528 --> 00:58:52,196
INTO.

1897
00:58:52,196 --> 00:58:54,699
BUT, LIKE I SAID, WE DIDN'T FIND

1898
00:58:54,699 --> 00:58:59,136
THAT ANDRE WAS INTO THAT KIND OF

1899
00:58:59,136 --> 00:58:59,604
CROWD.

1900
00:58:59,604 --> 00:59:01,105
>> THERE WAS SOMETHING CALLED

1901
00:59:01,105 --> 00:59:02,707
THE CHURCH OF THE PROCESS YEARS

1902
00:59:02,707 --> 00:59:04,041
AGO THAT WAS VERY STRONGLY

1903
00:59:04,041 --> 00:59:05,676
LINKED TO SATANIC CULTS, AND THE

1904
00:59:05,676 --> 00:59:07,211
FOUNDER OF THAT CHURCH HAPPENS

1905
00:59:07,211 --> 00:59:08,545
TO LIVE ON STATEN ISLAND.

1906
00:59:08,545 --> 00:59:09,413
>> [ CHUCKLES ]

1907
00:59:09,413 --> 00:59:10,948
AND HAS LIVED THERE FOR A LONG

1908
00:59:10,948 --> 00:59:11,381
TIME.

1909
00:59:11,381 --> 00:59:12,883
>> AND HE'S LIVED THERE FOR A

1910
00:59:12,883 --> 00:59:14,719
LONG TIME.

1911
00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:16,186
>> YEAH. I MEAN, IS HE JUST NOT

1912
00:59:16,186 --> 00:59:16,654
ACTIVE?

1913
00:59:16,654 --> 00:59:17,755
WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

1914
00:59:17,755 --> 00:59:18,589
>> NO, HE'S NOT.

1915
00:59:18,589 --> 00:59:19,857
SUPPOSEDLY HE'S NOT ACTIVE

1916
00:59:19,857 --> 00:59:20,357
ANYMORE.

1917
00:59:20,357 --> 00:59:21,826
>> DOES HE DENY IT, OR IS HE --

1918
00:59:21,826 --> 00:59:26,330
>> I'VE NEVER INTERVIEWED HIM.

1919
00:59:26,330 --> 00:59:27,832
IS THERE SATANIC CULTS, PEOPLE

1920
00:59:27,832 --> 00:59:28,666
THAT PRACTICE?

1921
00:59:28,666 --> 00:59:31,168
OF COURSE THERE IS.

1922
00:59:31,168 --> 00:59:32,637
BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S KEPT

1923
00:59:32,637 --> 00:59:33,303
VERY QUIET.

1924
00:59:33,303 --> 00:59:36,540
IT'S SOMETHING THAT NOT MANY

1925
00:59:36,540 --> 00:59:39,844
DEPARTMENTS INVESTIGATE.

1926
00:59:39,844 --> 00:59:41,812
SATANIC WORSHIP IS SATANIC

1927
00:59:41,812 --> 00:59:42,613
WORSHIPPERS.

1928
00:59:42,613 --> 00:59:44,649
IT'S LIKE BEING A CATHOLIC.

1929
00:59:44,649 --> 00:59:46,651
YOU BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU

1930
00:59:46,651 --> 00:59:48,052
BELIEVE IN JESUS.

1931
00:59:48,052 --> 00:59:50,788
THEY BELIEVE IN SATAN.

1932
00:59:50,788 --> 00:59:52,389
>> SO, ARE YOU IN HOUSES, OR ARE

1933
00:59:52,389 --> 00:59:53,323
YOU IN THE WOODS?

1934
00:59:53,323 --> 00:59:54,659
>> YOU COULD BE IN HOUSES.

1935
00:59:54,659 --> 00:59:55,993
YOU COULD BE IN THE WOODS.

1936
00:59:55,993 --> 00:59:57,494
>> ARE YOU IN ABANDONED MENTAL

1937
00:59:57,494 --> 00:59:58,262
INSTITUTIONS?

1938
00:59:58,262 --> 01:00:01,131
>> YOU COULD USE THEM.

1939
01:00:01,131 --> 01:00:03,868
>> AND DO THEY USE KIDS?

1940
01:00:03,868 --> 01:00:05,569
>> I'D RATHER NOT ANSWER THAT.

1941
01:00:12,843 --> 01:00:17,381
>> BASICALLY, THIS IS THE AREA

1942
01:00:17,381 --> 01:00:19,316
KNOWN AS THE FARM COLONY, AND

1943
01:00:19,316 --> 01:00:23,287
THIS IS WHERE THEY SAID A LOT OF

1944
01:00:23,287 --> 01:00:24,789
DEVIL WORSHIPPING AND STUFF WAS

1945
01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:26,490
GOING ON.

1946
01:00:35,866 --> 01:00:37,334
>> I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE'S

1947
01:00:37,334 --> 01:00:38,135
ANYTHING HERE.

1948
01:00:38,135 --> 01:00:39,169
MAYBE IT'S PEOPLE'S

1949
01:00:39,169 --> 01:00:39,904
IMAGINATIONS.

1950
01:00:39,904 --> 01:00:41,338
>> I MEAN, IT'S SCARY BECAUSE

1951
01:00:41,338 --> 01:00:42,873
YOU DON'T KNOW WHO CAN BE HERE.

1952
01:00:42,873 --> 01:00:43,908
BUT THERE'S NO DEVIL

1953
01:00:43,908 --> 01:00:44,641
WORSHIPPERS.

1954
01:00:44,641 --> 01:00:46,210
>> THERE ARE SOME CROSSES ON THE

1955
01:00:46,210 --> 01:00:47,411
BUILDING ACROSS THE WAY.

1956
01:00:47,411 --> 01:00:48,178
WE SHOULD GO.

1957
01:00:48,178 --> 01:00:52,282
LET'S JUST CHECK IT OUT.

1958
01:00:52,282 --> 01:00:54,752
>> BUILDING "A."

1959
01:00:54,752 --> 01:00:55,786
BARB, YOU WANT TO GO INSIDE?

1960
01:00:55,786 --> 01:00:56,453
LET'S GO INSIDE.

1961
01:00:56,453 --> 01:00:57,487
>> NO, I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.

1962
01:00:57,487 --> 01:00:58,455
>> SO, WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE

1963
01:00:58,455 --> 01:00:59,589
ANYTHING IF WE DON'T GO INSIDE.

1964
01:00:59,589 --> 01:01:00,257
>> I'M NOT. WAIT.

1965
01:01:00,257 --> 01:01:01,091
I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.

1966
01:01:01,091 --> 01:01:02,159
WE ALREADY WENT INSIDE DURING

1967
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:02,559
THE DAY.

1968
01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:04,795
I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.

1969
01:01:04,795 --> 01:01:05,629
>> WHAT ARE YOU, SCARED?

1970
01:01:05,629 --> 01:01:06,430
>> WE DON'T EVEN KNOW --

1971
01:01:06,430 --> 01:01:09,433
I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.

1972
01:01:09,433 --> 01:01:11,836
>> I'M GOING INSIDE.

1973
01:01:11,836 --> 01:01:13,570
>> WHAT THE FUCK AM I GONNA DO?

1974
01:01:23,380 --> 01:01:24,181
[ THUD ]

1975
01:01:24,181 --> 01:01:26,383
OH, MY GOD!

1976
01:01:26,383 --> 01:01:28,118
>> SORRY. I DROPPED THE LIGHT.

1977
01:01:28,118 --> 01:01:29,353
I DROPPED THE LIGHT.

1978
01:01:29,353 --> 01:01:30,087
I'M SORRY.

1979
01:01:30,087 --> 01:01:37,027
IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.

1980
01:01:37,027 --> 01:01:37,828
>> YOU KNOW WHAT?

1981
01:01:37,828 --> 01:01:40,630
I DON'T WANT TO STAY.

1982
01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:43,000
Shh, shh, shh!

1983
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:43,700
>> WHAT?

1984
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:44,969
YOU HEAR SOMETHING?

1985
01:01:44,969 --> 01:01:47,805
>> YEAH.

1986
01:01:47,805 --> 01:01:52,777
I saw something over there.

1987
01:01:52,777 --> 01:01:54,478
>> PEOPLE ARE COMING.

1988
01:02:05,756 --> 01:02:07,491
OH, MY GOD!

1989
01:02:07,491 --> 01:02:08,292
[ LAUGHTER ]

1990
01:02:08,292 --> 01:02:09,860
>> SO, WHY ARE YOU HERE TONIGHT?

1991
01:02:09,860 --> 01:02:10,995
>> YOU HEAR STORIES.

1992
01:02:10,995 --> 01:02:12,662
WE JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT IT'S

1993
01:02:12,662 --> 01:02:13,330
ABOUT, I GUESS.

1994
01:02:13,330 --> 01:02:14,464
>> WHAT DO YOU GUYS EXPECT TO

1995
01:02:14,464 --> 01:02:15,099
FIND OUT HERE?

1996
01:02:15,099 --> 01:02:16,100
>> PEOPLE WHO DIED HERE --

1997
01:02:16,100 --> 01:02:17,134
SUPPOSED TO BE THE GHOSTS.

1998
01:02:17,134 --> 01:02:18,268
>> SEARCHING THROUGH THE FARM

1999
01:02:18,268 --> 01:02:20,470
COLONY, ALL WE FOUND WERE KIDS

2000
01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:22,572
SCARING EACH OTHER OUT IN THE

2001
01:02:22,572 --> 01:02:24,641
WOODS, JUST LIKE WE HAD DONE

2002
01:02:24,641 --> 01:02:25,275
20 YEARS AGO.

2003
01:02:25,275 --> 01:02:26,610
>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE

2004
01:02:26,610 --> 01:02:27,845
DEVIL WORSHIPPERS IN THE WOODS

2005
01:02:27,845 --> 01:02:28,212
HERE?

2006
01:02:28,212 --> 01:02:29,046
>> OH, YEAH. I DO.

2007
01:02:29,046 --> 01:02:30,347
>> SOMEBODY SAID THEY WERE DOING

2008
01:02:30,347 --> 01:02:31,681
FREAKY EXPERIMENTS AND CRAP LIKE

2009
01:02:31,681 --> 01:02:32,049
THAT.

2010
01:02:32,049 --> 01:02:33,250
>> WHAT MAKES US ALL COME OUT

2011
01:02:33,250 --> 01:02:33,617
HERE?

2012
01:02:33,617 --> 01:02:34,751
WHAT MAKES US BELIEVE THESE

2013
01:02:34,751 --> 01:02:35,219
STORIES?

2014
01:02:35,219 --> 01:02:36,386
COULD THERE BE SOME TRUTH TO

2015
01:02:36,386 --> 01:02:36,821
IT ALL?

2016
01:02:36,821 --> 01:02:37,888
YOU GUYS EVER HEAR OF ANY

2017
01:02:37,888 --> 01:02:39,223
MISSING KIDS FROM STATEN ISLAND?

2018
01:02:39,223 --> 01:02:39,656
>> WHY?

2019
01:02:39,656 --> 01:02:40,891
Y'ALL BE HEARING MISSING KIDS?

2020
01:02:40,891 --> 01:02:41,892
>> THEY FOUND ONE GIRL,

2021
01:02:41,892 --> 01:02:43,093
JENNIFER SCHWEIGER, BURIED ON

2022
01:02:43,093 --> 01:02:43,928
THE GROUNDS OF THE

2023
01:02:43,928 --> 01:02:45,229
WILLOWBROOK MENTAL INSTITUTION.

2024
01:02:45,229 --> 01:02:45,830
>> [ GASPS ]

2025
01:02:45,830 --> 01:02:46,897
>> I REMEMBER MY MOM SAYING

2026
01:02:46,897 --> 01:02:47,832
SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

2027
01:02:47,832 --> 01:02:49,834
WASN'T SHE SLOW?

2028
01:02:49,834 --> 01:02:51,168
>> MAYBE THE REALITY THAT A

2029
01:02:51,168 --> 01:02:53,403
PERSON CAN KILL A CHILD IS TOO

2030
01:02:53,403 --> 01:02:56,573
MUCH FOR SOME OF US TO BEAR, AND

2031
01:02:56,573 --> 01:02:57,942
SO INSTEAD WE CREATE OUR OWN

2032
01:02:57,942 --> 01:02:59,476
MONSTERS.

2033
01:03:10,220 --> 01:03:11,755
>> HE'S NOT GONNA TESTIFY, I'M

2034
01:03:11,755 --> 01:03:13,057
VERY DISAPPOINTED TO SAY.

2035
01:03:13,057 --> 01:03:14,524
IT SEEMED LIKE HE WAS WANTING

2036
01:03:14,524 --> 01:03:15,860
TO DIVULGE INFORMATION, OF

2037
01:03:15,860 --> 01:03:17,394
COURSE NOT NECESSARILY CONFESS

2038
01:03:17,394 --> 01:03:19,196
TO ANYTHING, BUT CERTAINLY HE

2039
01:03:19,196 --> 01:03:21,098
WAS VERY ANTSY, AND THAT SEEMED

2040
01:03:21,098 --> 01:03:22,933
LIKE A GOOD SIGN TO PEOPLE WHO

2041
01:03:22,933 --> 01:03:24,468
MIGHT LIKE TO TRY TO GET

2042
01:03:24,468 --> 01:03:26,670
INFORMATION OUT OF HIM.

2043
01:03:26,670 --> 01:03:28,005
>> ARE YOU UPSET HE DIDN'T TAKE

2044
01:03:28,005 --> 01:03:29,406
THE STAND?

2045
01:03:29,406 --> 01:03:30,607
>> IT WOULD'VE BEEN INTERESTING,

2046
01:03:30,607 --> 01:03:31,775
BECAUSE WE'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD

2047
01:03:31,775 --> 01:03:33,677
HIM SPEAK.

2048
01:03:33,677 --> 01:03:37,314
SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO HAVE

2049
01:03:37,314 --> 01:03:38,548
FEELINGS ABOUT A PERSON YOU

2050
01:03:38,548 --> 01:03:39,416
REALLY DON'T KNOW.

2051
01:03:39,416 --> 01:03:40,717
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY

2052
01:03:40,717 --> 01:03:41,318
SOUND LIKE.

2053
01:03:41,318 --> 01:03:42,719
>> HOW COME YOU DIDN'T PUT ANDRE

2054
01:03:42,719 --> 01:03:43,587
ON THE STAND?

2055
01:03:43,587 --> 01:03:45,389
>> ANDRE DIDN'T HAVE TOO MUCH TO

2056
01:03:45,389 --> 01:03:49,860
ADD, AND HE HAS A CRIMINAL

2057
01:03:49,860 --> 01:03:50,327
RECORD.

2058
01:03:50,327 --> 01:03:51,528
AND A CRIMINAL RECORD WOULD

2059
01:03:51,528 --> 01:03:55,866
DISTRACT FROM THIS CASE.

2060
01:03:55,866 --> 01:03:57,301
>> THE JURY WILL BE HANDED THE

2061
01:03:57,301 --> 01:03:58,702
CASE MONDAY, AND IF CONVICTED,

2062
01:03:58,702 --> 01:04:00,204
RAND COULD FACE AN ADDITIONAL 25

2063
01:04:00,204 --> 01:04:01,505
YEARS TO LIFE ON TOP OF THE

2064
01:04:01,505 --> 01:04:02,940
SENTENCE HE'S ALREADY SERVING.

2065
01:04:02,940 --> 01:04:03,840
ON STATEN ISLAND,

2066
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:07,377
AMANDA FARINACCI, NY1.

2067
01:04:07,377 --> 01:04:08,812
GOOD?

2068
01:04:16,153 --> 01:04:17,687
>> RAND HAD BEEN UPSET ABOUT NOT

2069
01:04:17,687 --> 01:04:19,156
TAKING THE STAND AND WANTED THE

2070
01:04:19,156 --> 01:04:20,657
CHANCE TO DEFEND HIMSELF.

2071
01:04:20,657 --> 01:04:22,492
AFTER MONTHS OF LETTER-WRITING,

2072
01:04:22,492 --> 01:04:24,361
HE FINALLY DECIDED TO GIVE US AN

2073
01:04:24,361 --> 01:04:25,629
INTERVIEW.

2074
01:04:25,629 --> 01:04:28,398
IT WAS TIME TO CONFRONT RAND

2075
01:04:28,398 --> 01:04:31,501
FACE-TO-FACE TO GET SOME ANSWERS

2076
01:04:31,501 --> 01:04:33,203
ONCE AND FOR ALL.

2077
01:05:04,601 --> 01:05:06,870
>> HE DID THE SAME THING TO ME.

2078
01:05:06,870 --> 01:05:08,772
'CAUSE AFTER THAT INITIAL

2079
01:05:08,772 --> 01:05:11,075
INTERVIEW THAT WE HAD WITH HIM,

2080
01:05:11,075 --> 01:05:12,776
WE HAD WRITTEN TO HIM.

2081
01:05:12,776 --> 01:05:16,280
WE WENT BACK UP, AND HE SAID,

2082
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:16,880
"SURE, NO PROBLEM.

2083
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:17,381
COME BACK UP.

2084
01:05:17,381 --> 01:05:17,948
WE'LL TALK AGAIN.

2085
01:05:17,948 --> 01:05:19,483
BUT YOU'LL COME TO MY HOUSE.

2086
01:05:21,318 --> 01:05:22,386
YOU CAN'T MOVE ME.

2087
01:05:22,386 --> 01:05:23,988
I WON'T TALK TO YOU UNLESS YOU

2088
01:05:23,988 --> 01:05:26,923
SPEAK TO ME IN MY HOME."

2089
01:05:26,923 --> 01:05:29,426
AND WE WENT UP THERE, AND

2090
01:05:29,426 --> 01:05:32,129
HE TOLD THE CORRECTION PEOPLE,

2091
01:05:32,129 --> 01:05:32,997
"I CHANGED MY MIND.

2092
01:05:32,997 --> 01:05:34,698
I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO HIM."

2093
01:05:38,702 --> 01:05:43,440
>> HE WOULDN'T TALK TO US, SO...

2094
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:48,278
WE'RE GONNA GO BACK HOME.

2095
01:05:48,278 --> 01:05:50,180
>> IT'S A GAME FOR HIM.

2096
01:05:50,180 --> 01:05:52,482
TO ME, HE'S A VERY SMART MAN.

2097
01:05:52,482 --> 01:05:54,918
HE KNEW HOW TO COMMIT THE CRIME

2098
01:05:54,918 --> 01:05:56,553
AND NOT GET CAUGHT.

2099
01:05:56,553 --> 01:05:59,689
AND LIKE HE SAID TO ME, "WHY

2100
01:05:59,689 --> 01:06:01,525
IS IT THAT YOU GUYS DON'T FIND

2101
01:06:01,525 --> 01:06:04,961
THE REAL KILLER?"

2102
01:06:04,961 --> 01:06:06,363
>> "IT IS YOUR SINS THAT MAKE

2103
01:06:06,363 --> 01:06:07,731
HIM HIDE HIS FACE SO THAT HE

2104
01:06:07,731 --> 01:06:09,033
WILL NOT HEAR YOU, FOR YOUR

2105
01:06:09,033 --> 01:06:10,434
HANDS ARE STAINED WITH BLOOD,

2106
01:06:10,434 --> 01:06:11,835
YOUR FINGERS WITH GUILT, YOUR

2107
01:06:11,835 --> 01:06:13,303
LIPS SPEAK FALSEHOODS, AND YOUR

2108
01:06:13,303 --> 01:06:16,840
TONGUE UTTERS DECEIT."

2109
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:18,842
JOSH AND I HAD DECIDED TO HOLD

2110
01:06:18,842 --> 01:06:20,877
OFF ON ANSWERING RAND AFTER HIS

2111
01:06:20,877 --> 01:06:22,312
MOST RECENT LETTERS.

2112
01:06:22,312 --> 01:06:24,114
THEY WERE BECOMING MORE AND

2113
01:06:24,114 --> 01:06:25,149
MORE BIZARRE.

2114
01:06:25,149 --> 01:06:27,017
HIS HANDWRITING HAD CHANGED,

2115
01:06:27,017 --> 01:06:28,552
AND HE WAS NOW QUOTING

2116
01:06:28,552 --> 01:06:29,319
SCRIPTURE.

2117
01:06:29,319 --> 01:06:30,987
"NO ONE BRINGS SUIT JUSTLY.

2118
01:06:30,987 --> 01:06:32,522
NO ONE PLEADS TRUTHFULLY.

2119
01:06:32,522 --> 01:06:34,191
THEY TRUST IN EMPTINESS AND

2120
01:06:34,191 --> 01:06:34,958
TELL LIES.

2121
01:06:34,958 --> 01:06:36,560
THEY CONCEIVE MISCHIEF AND

2122
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:37,827
BRING FORTH MALICE.

2123
01:06:37,827 --> 01:06:39,463
THEY HATCH ADDERS' EGGS AND

2124
01:06:39,463 --> 01:06:40,764
WEAVE SPIDERS' WEBS.

2125
01:06:40,764 --> 01:06:42,466
WHOEVER EATS THEIR EGGS WILL

2126
01:06:42,466 --> 01:06:42,932
DIE.

2127
01:06:42,932 --> 01:06:44,701
IF ONE OF THEM IS PRESSED, IT

2128
01:06:44,701 --> 01:06:46,370
WILL HATCH AS A VIPER."

2129
01:06:46,370 --> 01:06:48,305
>> "MY STAND ON DEVIATE SEX

2130
01:06:48,305 --> 01:06:49,106
BELIEFS.

2131
01:06:49,106 --> 01:06:51,308
CHILDREN ARE EMOTIONALLY WASTED,

2132
01:06:51,308 --> 01:06:53,343
AND THE LAND IS LITTERED WITH

2133
01:06:53,343 --> 01:06:54,511
BROKEN LIVES."

2134
01:06:54,511 --> 01:06:56,713
WHY'S HE KEEP FOCUSING ON WOMEN?

2135
01:06:56,713 --> 01:06:58,882
MAYBE HE SAW THINGS AS A CHILD?

2136
01:06:58,882 --> 01:07:01,051
I MEAN, NOBODY REALLY KNOWS HIS

2137
01:07:01,051 --> 01:07:01,951
EARLY CHILDHOOD.

2138
01:07:01,951 --> 01:07:03,387
>> IN SOME OF THE LETTERS TO

2139
01:07:03,387 --> 01:07:04,921
YOU -- WE HAVE THEM -- IT TALKS

2140
01:07:04,921 --> 01:07:05,789
ABOUT HER CASE.

2141
01:07:05,789 --> 01:07:07,757
FATHER DIED IN 1958.

2142
01:07:07,757 --> 01:07:08,592
>> WHEN HE WAS 14.

2143
01:07:08,592 --> 01:07:09,393
>> WHEN HE WAS 14.

2144
01:07:09,393 --> 01:07:10,294
>> HIS MOTHER WAS IN

2145
01:07:10,294 --> 01:07:11,561
PILGRIM STATE, FROM WHAT I WAS

2146
01:07:11,561 --> 01:07:15,699
TOLD.

2147
01:07:15,699 --> 01:07:17,534
PILGRIM STATE IS BUILT EXACTLY

2148
01:07:17,534 --> 01:07:19,236
TO THE SPECS OF WILLOWBROOK.

2149
01:07:19,236 --> 01:07:21,171
WILLOWBROOK AND PILGRIM STATE...

2150
01:07:21,171 --> 01:07:22,739
>> SAME TYPE OF FACILITY.

2151
01:07:22,739 --> 01:07:24,474
>> ...SAME TYPE OF FACILITY,

2152
01:07:24,474 --> 01:07:26,143
SAME TYPE OF BUILDING, SAME

2153
01:07:26,143 --> 01:07:27,811
TUNNEL SYSTEM, SAME KITCHEN

2154
01:07:27,811 --> 01:07:30,580
SYSTEMS.

2155
01:07:30,580 --> 01:07:32,216
>> RAND WRITES IN HIS LETTERS

2156
01:07:32,216 --> 01:07:33,983
THAT HIS MOTHER WAS COMMITTED TO

2157
01:07:33,983 --> 01:07:35,352
PILGRIM STATE ASYLUM IN

2158
01:07:35,352 --> 01:07:36,153
LONG ISLAND.

2159
01:07:36,153 --> 01:07:37,787
AS A TEENAGER, HE WOULD OFTEN

2160
01:07:37,787 --> 01:07:40,224
GO THERE TO VISIT.

2161
01:07:40,224 --> 01:07:42,092
WITH A POPULATION THAT ONCE

2162
01:07:42,092 --> 01:07:44,261
TOPPED 13,000, PILGRIM STATE WAS

2163
01:07:44,261 --> 01:07:46,130
AT TIMES THE LARGEST MENTAL

2164
01:07:46,130 --> 01:07:48,198
INSTITUTION IN THE WORLD, MUCH

2165
01:07:48,198 --> 01:07:51,701
LIKE WILLOWBROOK.

2166
01:07:51,701 --> 01:07:53,370
THIS NEW CONNECTION TO RAND'S

2167
01:07:53,370 --> 01:07:55,172
FAMILY WAS SOMETHING WE COULDN'T

2168
01:07:55,172 --> 01:07:55,772
IGNORE.

2169
01:07:55,772 --> 01:07:57,241
WE TRIED SEVERAL TIMES TO

2170
01:07:57,241 --> 01:07:58,942
CONTACT A WOMAN WHO WE THOUGHT

2171
01:07:58,942 --> 01:08:00,076
WAS RAND'S SISTER.

2172
01:08:00,076 --> 01:08:01,511
>> EXCUSE ME.

2173
01:08:01,511 --> 01:08:03,046
WE'RE DOING A DOCUMENTARY, AND

2174
01:08:03,046 --> 01:08:04,348
WE WANTED TO SPEAK TO YOU

2175
01:08:04,348 --> 01:08:05,715
ABOUT -- I THINK IT'S YOUR

2176
01:08:05,715 --> 01:08:07,016
BROTHER, ANDRE RAND.

2177
01:08:11,020 --> 01:08:11,721
RIGHT.

2178
01:08:16,460 --> 01:08:17,827
WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT

2179
01:08:17,827 --> 01:08:19,463
HAPPENED IN HIS LIFE THAT YOU

2180
01:08:19,463 --> 01:08:21,064
THINK KIND OF SET HIM ON THIS

2181
01:08:21,064 --> 01:08:22,098
WRONG PATH?

2182
01:08:32,142 --> 01:08:35,011
RIGHT.

2183
01:08:35,011 --> 01:08:36,180
>> WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GET

2184
01:08:36,180 --> 01:08:37,514
ANYBODY TO CONFESS TO ANYTHING.

2185
01:08:37,514 --> 01:08:38,648
>> NO, IT'S JUST A "WHY?"

2186
01:08:38,648 --> 01:08:40,984
>> RIGHT.

2187
01:08:40,984 --> 01:08:42,686
>> YEAH, TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHY.

2188
01:08:49,259 --> 01:08:50,960
YEAH.

2189
01:09:03,173 --> 01:09:06,376
>> RECEIVED FRIDAY, JUNE 20th.

2190
01:09:20,023 --> 01:09:21,725
[ Receiver clicks ]

2191
01:09:34,037 --> 01:09:35,439
>> DO YOU STILL FEEL LIKE THEY

2192
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:36,773
DIDN'T DO ENOUGH AT THE TIME?

2193
01:09:36,773 --> 01:09:38,208
>> I DON'T FEEL -- I THINK THEY

2194
01:09:38,208 --> 01:09:39,643
ALL WORKED, BUT I DON'T FEEL IT

2195
01:09:39,643 --> 01:09:42,011
WAS COORDINATED PROPERLY.

2196
01:09:42,011 --> 01:09:43,547
I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS

2197
01:09:43,547 --> 01:09:44,914
THAT ARE COMING OUT THAT I

2198
01:09:44,914 --> 01:09:45,915
DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.

2199
01:09:45,915 --> 01:09:47,484
AND HERE THEY ARE, AND HAD THEY

2200
01:09:47,484 --> 01:09:49,052
BEEN FOLLOWED UP, I WOULDN'T BE

2201
01:09:49,052 --> 01:09:49,753
HERE TODAY.

2202
01:09:49,753 --> 01:09:51,154
IT WOULD'VE BEEN SETTLED 23

2203
01:09:51,154 --> 01:09:51,821
YEARS AGO.

2204
01:09:51,821 --> 01:09:53,223
>> YOU THINK HE'S GONNA GET

2205
01:09:53,223 --> 01:09:53,890
CONVICTED?

2206
01:09:53,890 --> 01:09:55,225
>> NOT WITH THIS EVIDENCE,

2207
01:09:55,225 --> 01:09:56,593
BECAUSE IT'S NOT CREDIBLE.

2208
01:09:56,593 --> 01:09:58,295
>> YOU'VE GOT 12 PEOPLE, AND

2209
01:09:58,295 --> 01:09:59,963
SOME PEOPLE JUST COULD GET HUNG

2210
01:09:59,963 --> 01:10:01,665
UP ON SOMETHING AND BELIEVE THAT

2211
01:10:01,665 --> 01:10:02,766
HE'S GUILTY OR NOT.

2212
01:10:02,766 --> 01:10:04,401
>> THE QUESTION OF INNOCENCE OR

2213
01:10:04,401 --> 01:10:06,102
GUILT IS MORE FUNDAMENTAL IN ONE

2214
01:10:06,102 --> 01:10:06,570
CASE.

2215
01:10:06,570 --> 01:10:08,472
THIS GUY HAS A TRACK RECORD.

2216
01:10:08,472 --> 01:10:10,874
AND THAT JURY, IN THEIR HEARTS,

2217
01:10:10,874 --> 01:10:13,377
THEY PERMIT THIS GUY TO GO FREE,

2218
01:10:13,377 --> 01:10:15,379
IS ONLY GONNA SEE ANOTHER

2219
01:10:15,379 --> 01:10:20,317
TRAGEDY.

2220
01:10:20,317 --> 01:10:21,585
>> THE JURY HAD TAKEN THE

2221
01:10:21,585 --> 01:10:23,019
WEEKEND TO DELIBERATE RAND'S

2222
01:10:23,019 --> 01:10:24,220
FATE, WHICH GAVE US THE

2223
01:10:24,220 --> 01:10:25,789
OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK OUT ONE LAST

2224
01:10:25,789 --> 01:10:27,691
PERSON -- REVEREND MUSKETT, A

2225
01:10:27,691 --> 01:10:29,493
STOREFRONT PREACHER WHO HAD

2226
01:10:29,493 --> 01:10:31,395
HOUSED RAND IN THE FINAL DAYS

2227
01:10:31,395 --> 01:10:33,863
BEFORE HIS ARREST IN '87.

2228
01:10:33,863 --> 01:10:35,365
FOR MONTHS, WE HAD SEARCHED

2229
01:10:35,365 --> 01:10:36,833
FOR HIS WHEREABOUTS UNTIL A

2230
01:10:36,833 --> 01:10:38,468
DETECTIVE FINALLY REVEALED HIS

2231
01:10:38,468 --> 01:10:41,438
ADDRESS.

2232
01:10:41,438 --> 01:10:43,373
[ KNOCK ON DOOR ]

2233
01:10:43,373 --> 01:10:44,508
>> HEY, I'M LOOKING FOR

2234
01:10:44,508 --> 01:10:45,208
MR. MUSKETT.

2235
01:10:45,208 --> 01:10:46,543
>> I DON'T KNOW IF HE REALLY

2236
01:10:46,543 --> 01:10:47,977
WANTS TO BE INVOLVED ANYMORE IN

2237
01:10:47,977 --> 01:10:48,945
THIS AT ALL OR NOT.

2238
01:10:48,945 --> 01:10:50,246
>> MAYBE YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR

2239
01:10:50,246 --> 01:10:51,748
FAMILY GOT NEGATIVE ATTENTION AS

2240
01:10:51,748 --> 01:10:52,949
A RESULT OF IT, I'M SURE.

2241
01:10:52,949 --> 01:10:53,917
>> YEAH, BECAUSE --

2242
01:10:53,917 --> 01:10:55,151
>> WELL, ACTUALLY WE DID.

2243
01:10:55,151 --> 01:10:55,652
>> YEAH.

2244
01:10:55,652 --> 01:10:57,086
>> IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY

2245
01:10:57,086 --> 01:10:58,254
WE CAME TO PENNSYLVANIA.

2246
01:10:58,254 --> 01:11:02,992
>> Both: RIGHT.

2247
01:11:02,992 --> 01:11:04,594
>> SO, RAND WAS LIVING IN YOUR

2248
01:11:04,594 --> 01:11:05,929
HOUSE WHILE HE WAS UNDER

2249
01:11:05,929 --> 01:11:07,531
SUSPICION FOR TAKING JENNIFER?

2250
01:11:07,531 --> 01:11:08,598
>> YES.

2251
01:11:08,598 --> 01:11:11,801
IT WAS AT THE POLICE'S OWN

2252
01:11:11,801 --> 01:11:13,269
INSISTENCE THAT WE TOOK

2253
01:11:13,269 --> 01:11:18,708
ANDRE RAND IN.

2254
01:11:18,708 --> 01:11:21,244
THEY BUGGED THE HOUSE, AND THEY

2255
01:11:21,244 --> 01:11:23,413
HAD A SURVEILLANCE VEHICLE

2256
01:11:23,413 --> 01:11:25,815
SITTING ON THE CORNER DAY AND

2257
01:11:25,815 --> 01:11:27,551
NIGHT.

2258
01:11:37,260 --> 01:11:39,696
WE COULDN'T TELL THE COMMUNITY

2259
01:11:39,696 --> 01:11:41,831
WHAT WE WERE DOING BECAUSE,

2260
01:11:41,831 --> 01:11:44,200
OBVIOUSLY, IF WE DID, HE WOULD

2261
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,703
KNOW AND WOULD LEAVE.

2262
01:11:46,703 --> 01:11:49,539
SO AS FAR AS THE COMMUNITY KNEW,

2263
01:11:49,539 --> 01:11:52,241
WE WERE FRIENDS OF ANDRE RAND.

2264
01:11:52,241 --> 01:11:55,011
>> DID THEY PHYSICALLY THREATEN

2265
01:11:55,011 --> 01:11:55,679
YOU?

2266
01:11:55,679 --> 01:11:57,547
>> SOME PEOPLE HAD.

2267
01:11:57,547 --> 01:12:00,384
THEY DIDN'T VIEW ME AS A FRIEND.

2268
01:12:00,384 --> 01:12:06,590
BUT I WAS A FRIEND OF JENNIFER.

2269
01:12:06,590 --> 01:12:08,291
>> WHY DO YOU BELIEVE HE TOOK

2270
01:12:08,291 --> 01:12:08,992
JENNIFER?

2271
01:12:08,992 --> 01:12:11,227
>> HE TOLD ME.

2272
01:12:11,227 --> 01:12:14,664
HE TOLD ME HE TOOK HER.

2273
01:12:14,664 --> 01:12:18,568
HE TOOK HER BECAUSE HE THOUGHT

2274
01:12:18,568 --> 01:12:20,570
THAT HER FAMILY DIDN'T WANT HER

2275
01:12:20,570 --> 01:12:26,476
AND THAT SHE WAS ALONE, AND HE

2276
01:12:26,476 --> 01:12:30,079
FELT THAT PEOPLE THAT HAD MENTAL

2277
01:12:30,079 --> 01:12:31,448
HANDICAPS AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE

2278
01:12:31,448 --> 01:12:33,149
ALIVE...

2279
01:12:37,787 --> 01:12:40,524
NOT THINKING THAT PEOPLE WOULD

2280
01:12:40,524 --> 01:12:43,693
APPRECIATE OR CARE FOR OR LIKE

2281
01:12:43,693 --> 01:12:44,861
SOMEONE WHO HAS A MENTAL

2282
01:12:44,861 --> 01:12:49,198
HANDICAP.

2283
01:12:49,198 --> 01:12:52,402
>> ANDRE BELIEVED THAT THESE

2284
01:12:52,402 --> 01:12:55,204
YOUNG GIRLS CAME FROM FAMILIES

2285
01:12:55,204 --> 01:12:57,807
THAT THEY COULDN'T GIVE THEM

2286
01:12:57,807 --> 01:12:59,876
ANYTHING, SO THE BEST THING WAS

2287
01:12:59,876 --> 01:13:03,379
THAT THEY WEREN'T AROUND.

2288
01:13:03,379 --> 01:13:04,881
>> HE SEEMED TO THINK IT WAS

2289
01:13:04,881 --> 01:13:07,851
PART OF HIS MISSION TO CLEANSE

2290
01:13:07,851 --> 01:13:11,555
THE WORLD OF...

2291
01:13:11,555 --> 01:13:13,256
"IMPERFECT CHILDREN" IN HIS

2292
01:13:13,256 --> 01:13:15,959
EYES.

2293
01:13:15,959 --> 01:13:17,494
>> DUE TO THE FACT THAT HIS

2294
01:13:17,494 --> 01:13:19,162
MOTHER HAD SOME SORT OF MENTAL

2295
01:13:19,162 --> 01:13:21,698
DISABILITY AND THE FACT THAT HE

2296
01:13:21,698 --> 01:13:24,200
VIEWED THESE OTHER PEOPLE THAT

2297
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,603
WERE LESS THAN PERFECT, AND I

2298
01:13:26,603 --> 01:13:29,205
PERSONALLY FEEL THAT RATHER THAN

2299
01:13:29,205 --> 01:13:32,576
SEE THEM MAYBE GROW UP AND HAVE

2300
01:13:32,576 --> 01:13:34,611
CHILDREN, HE WAS SPARING THEM

2301
01:13:34,611 --> 01:13:37,681
AND TAKING THEM OUT.

2302
01:13:37,681 --> 01:13:39,783
>> ONE OF MY SONS IS MENTALLY

2303
01:13:39,783 --> 01:13:42,051
RETARDED, WHICH HUNG AROUND WITH

2304
01:13:42,051 --> 01:13:42,619
HIM.

2305
01:13:42,619 --> 01:13:44,588
HIS NAME'S CHIPPY.

2306
01:13:44,588 --> 01:13:48,291
AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT DRAWN

2307
01:13:48,291 --> 01:13:54,698
HIM TO...

2308
01:13:54,698 --> 01:13:57,801
WELL, TO US, BECAUSE OF CHIPPY

2309
01:13:57,801 --> 01:14:01,137
BEING THE WAY HE IS.

2310
01:14:01,137 --> 01:14:03,272
I THINK HE'S POSSESSED.

2311
01:14:03,272 --> 01:14:05,041
I REALLY THINK THAT HE IS

2312
01:14:05,041 --> 01:14:09,345
DEMONIZED AND POSSESSED.

2313
01:14:09,345 --> 01:14:10,914
>> WE HAD THE SAME QUESTIONS

2314
01:14:10,914 --> 01:14:12,682
THAT YOU'RE ASKING ME -- WHY DID

2315
01:14:12,682 --> 01:14:13,449
HE DO THIS?

2316
01:14:13,449 --> 01:14:14,484
WHAT SET HIM OFF?

2317
01:14:14,484 --> 01:14:16,085
BELIEVE ME, WE WERE WIDE-OPEN

2318
01:14:16,085 --> 01:14:17,420
FOR ANY TYPE OF MOTIVE.

2319
01:14:17,420 --> 01:14:18,855
WHEN WE DID INTERVIEW HIM

2320
01:14:18,855 --> 01:14:20,490
FINALLY, THERE WAS GONNA BE A

2321
01:14:20,490 --> 01:14:21,991
FINAL INTERVIEW, AND WE WERE

2322
01:14:21,991 --> 01:14:23,727
GONNA TAKE HIM BACK THROUGH HIS

2323
01:14:23,727 --> 01:14:25,428
ALIBI, AND THAT'S WHY WE RENTED

2324
01:14:25,428 --> 01:14:27,263
A HOTEL ROOM.

2325
01:14:27,263 --> 01:14:28,397
WE SAID, "ANDRE, LOOK, WE GOT

2326
01:14:28,397 --> 01:14:29,432
THIS TAPE OF WILLOWBROOK.

2327
01:14:29,432 --> 01:14:30,534
REMEMBER YOU USED TO WORK AT

2328
01:14:30,534 --> 01:14:31,134
WILLOWBROOK?"

2329
01:14:31,134 --> 01:14:32,235
"OH YEAH, IT WAS TERRIBLE."

2330
01:14:32,235 --> 01:14:33,102
I SAID, "REMEMBER HOW

2331
01:14:33,102 --> 01:14:34,303
GERALDO RIVERA DID THE EXPOSé?"

2332
01:14:34,303 --> 01:14:35,371
HE SAID, "YEAH, BUT I NEVER

2333
01:14:35,371 --> 01:14:35,839
SAW IT."

2334
01:14:35,839 --> 01:14:36,606
"WELL, WE HAVE IT.

2335
01:14:36,606 --> 01:14:37,741
WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME UP AND

2336
01:14:37,741 --> 01:14:38,141
SEE IT?

2337
01:14:38,141 --> 01:14:39,342
CAUSE WE HAVE A VCR UP THERE."

2338
01:14:39,342 --> 01:14:40,409
AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, I'D

2339
01:14:40,409 --> 01:14:41,410
REALLY LIKE THAT."

2340
01:14:41,410 --> 01:14:42,979
AND WE'RE SAYING, "WELL, HE DID

2341
01:14:42,979 --> 01:14:44,380
WORK AT WILLOWBROOK FOR TWO

2342
01:14:44,380 --> 01:14:44,881
YEARS.

2343
01:14:44,881 --> 01:14:46,315
HE WAS A PHYSICAL THERAPIST.

2344
01:14:46,315 --> 01:14:47,884
MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING ON THAT

2345
01:14:47,884 --> 01:14:53,189
TAPE THAT'S GONNA SHAKE HIM."

2346
01:14:53,189 --> 01:14:54,591
>> PERHAPS THE GOVERNOR CAN

2347
01:14:54,591 --> 01:14:55,992
DEFEND AND EXPLAIN AWAY THE

2348
01:14:55,992 --> 01:14:57,561
BUDGET CUTS FOR THE DEPARTMENT

2349
01:14:57,561 --> 01:14:59,095
OF MENTAL HYGIENE, AND PERHAPS

2350
01:14:59,095 --> 01:15:00,463
DR. MILLER CAN EXPLAIN AND

2351
01:15:00,463 --> 01:15:02,031
DEFEND THE FILTHY, DEHUMANIZING

2352
01:15:02,031 --> 01:15:03,633
CONDITIONS WE FOUND IN THIS AND

2353
01:15:03,633 --> 01:15:05,201
OTHER BUILDINGS, BUT THEY WON'T

2354
01:15:05,201 --> 01:15:06,936
DO IT ON THIS PROGRAM.

2355
01:15:06,936 --> 01:15:08,371
WHAT WE FOUND AND DOCUMENTED

2356
01:15:08,371 --> 01:15:10,006
HERE IS A DISGRACE TO ALL OF US.

2357
01:15:10,006 --> 01:15:11,374
THIS PLACE ISN'T A SCHOOL.

2358
01:15:11,374 --> 01:15:12,776
IT'S A DARK CORNER WHERE WE

2359
01:15:12,776 --> 01:15:14,410
THROW CHILDREN WHO AREN'T PRETTY

2360
01:15:14,410 --> 01:15:15,111
TO LOOK AT.

2361
01:15:15,111 --> 01:15:16,412
IT'S THE BIG TOWN'S LEPER

2362
01:15:16,412 --> 01:15:18,114
COLONY.

2363
01:15:28,357 --> 01:15:29,859
>> WE WERE SITTING ON BOTH SIDES

2364
01:15:29,859 --> 01:15:30,459
OF HIM...

2365
01:15:30,459 --> 01:15:31,661
>> AND HE STARTED TO CRY.

2366
01:15:31,661 --> 01:15:32,729
>> HE STARTED TO CRY.

2367
01:15:32,729 --> 01:15:34,197
>> AND HE SAID, "DO YOU SEE HOW

2368
01:15:34,197 --> 01:15:34,698
IT WAS?

2369
01:15:34,698 --> 01:15:35,699
YOU SEE HOW IT WAS?

2370
01:15:35,699 --> 01:15:37,133
WE WERE VICTIMS, TOO," MEANING

2371
01:15:37,133 --> 01:15:38,467
THE ATTENDANTS OR THE PEOPLE

2372
01:15:38,467 --> 01:15:44,440
THAT WORKED THERE.

2373
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:45,842
HE JUST SAT THERE, AND HIS EYES,

2374
01:15:45,842 --> 01:15:47,010
LIKE, ROLLED, AND HE JUST

2375
01:15:47,010 --> 01:15:48,311
STARTED DROOLING IN THE HOTEL

2376
01:15:48,311 --> 01:15:50,580
ROOM.

2377
01:15:50,580 --> 01:15:51,615
>> WE COULD SEE WHAT WAS

2378
01:15:51,615 --> 01:15:52,916
HAPPENING TO HIM, AND IT'S LIKE

2379
01:15:52,916 --> 01:15:54,183
YOU WOULD KNEEL RIGHT IN FRONT

2380
01:15:54,183 --> 01:15:56,152
OF HIM.

2381
01:15:56,152 --> 01:15:56,686
"SAY IT.

2382
01:15:56,686 --> 01:15:57,821
TELL US THE TRUTH NOW."

2383
01:15:57,821 --> 01:15:59,122
YOU KNOW, "GOD WILL FORGIVE

2384
01:15:59,122 --> 01:16:01,791
YOU."

2385
01:16:01,791 --> 01:16:02,659
WE WERE SO CLOSE.

2386
01:16:02,659 --> 01:16:03,660
WE THOUGHT WE HAD IT.

2387
01:16:03,660 --> 01:16:08,732
THEN HE JUST STARTED TO ROCK.

2388
01:16:08,732 --> 01:16:10,199
>> HE WAS THAT WAY THAT WHOLE

2389
01:16:10,199 --> 01:16:11,735
NIGHT, THE WHOLE NEXT DAY, AND

2390
01:16:11,735 --> 01:16:13,069
HE DIDN'T START TALKING TO

2391
01:16:13,069 --> 01:16:14,604
PEOPLE UNTIL TWO OR THREE DAYS

2392
01:16:14,604 --> 01:16:16,305
LATER.

2393
01:16:28,584 --> 01:16:30,353
>> AS MUCH AS IT HAD STARTED, IN

2394
01:16:30,353 --> 01:16:31,955
THE END, IT ALL CAME BACK TO

2395
01:16:31,955 --> 01:16:34,824
WILLOWBROOK.

2396
01:16:34,824 --> 01:16:36,259
WERE THE ANSWERS TO THESE

2397
01:16:36,259 --> 01:16:37,694
MISSING CHILDREN FOUND ON

2398
01:16:37,694 --> 01:16:40,329
GERALDO'S TAPE?

2399
01:16:40,329 --> 01:16:41,865
AND IF SO, HAD THE SINS OF

2400
01:16:41,865 --> 01:16:43,733
WILLOWBROOK FINALLY COME BACK TO

2401
01:16:43,733 --> 01:16:46,202
HAUNT THE RESIDENTS OF

2402
01:16:46,202 --> 01:16:49,673
STATEN ISLAND?

2403
01:16:49,673 --> 01:16:52,441
>> ALL NEWS, ALL THE TIME.

2404
01:16:52,441 --> 01:16:54,477
THIS IS 1010 WINS.

2405
01:16:54,477 --> 01:16:56,713
YOU GIVE US 22 MINUTES, WE'LL

2406
01:16:56,713 --> 01:16:58,314
GIVE YOU THE WORLD.

2407
01:16:58,314 --> 01:17:00,483
>> A GUILTY VERDICT 23 YEARS

2408
01:17:00,483 --> 01:17:01,350
AFTER 7-YEAR-OLD

2409
01:17:01,350 --> 01:17:02,819
HOLLY ANN HUGHES VANISHED FROM

2410
01:17:02,819 --> 01:17:04,153
OUTSIDE OF HER STATEN ISLAND

2411
01:17:04,153 --> 01:17:04,587
HOME.

2412
01:17:04,587 --> 01:17:05,922
>> THIS IS THE HEROES RIGHT

2413
01:17:05,922 --> 01:17:06,322
HERE.

2414
01:17:06,322 --> 01:17:07,623
>> HEROES, HEROES, HEROES,

2415
01:17:07,623 --> 01:17:08,091
HEROES.

2416
01:17:08,091 --> 01:17:08,892
HE'S A KILLER.

2417
01:17:08,892 --> 01:17:11,728
HE'S A KILLER AND A KIDNAPPER.

2418
01:17:11,728 --> 01:17:12,996
>> TELL US WHERE SHE IS.

2419
01:17:12,996 --> 01:17:14,463
TELL US WHERE THE OTHER KIDS

2420
01:17:14,463 --> 01:17:14,864
ARE.

2421
01:17:14,864 --> 01:17:16,032
I'LL GO LOOK FOR THEM.

2422
01:17:16,032 --> 01:17:16,933
I'LL FIND THEM.

2423
01:17:16,933 --> 01:17:18,501
THE OTHER ONES, OF COURSE, YES.

2424
01:17:18,501 --> 01:17:19,602
THERE'S SPECULATION.

2425
01:17:19,602 --> 01:17:21,237
BUT WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THOSE

2426
01:17:21,237 --> 01:17:22,839
CASES SOMEDAY COME TO TRIAL AND

2427
01:17:22,839 --> 01:17:24,407
THAT THE REST OF THOSE FAMILIES

2428
01:17:24,407 --> 01:17:25,909
HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF JUSTICE

2429
01:17:25,909 --> 01:17:27,376
THAT THE SCHWEIGER'S AND THE

2430
01:17:27,376 --> 01:17:29,946
HUGHES HAVE.

2431
01:17:29,946 --> 01:17:31,347
>> A LOT OF WEIGHT IS LIFTED OFF

2432
01:17:31,347 --> 01:17:32,048
ME RIGHT NOW.

2433
01:17:32,048 --> 01:17:32,882
>> I FEEL BETTER.

2434
01:17:32,882 --> 01:17:34,283
>> DO YOU FEEL ANY CLOSURE ABOUT

2435
01:17:34,283 --> 01:17:36,753
THE VERDICT?

2436
01:17:36,753 --> 01:17:40,123
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT...

2437
01:17:40,123 --> 01:17:41,190
IT'S NOT GONNA BRING BACK

2438
01:17:41,190 --> 01:17:41,725
HOLLY ANN.

2439
01:17:41,725 --> 01:17:42,391
YOU KNOW THAT.

2440
01:17:42,391 --> 01:17:44,694
BUT...

2441
01:17:44,694 --> 01:17:45,862
[ Voice breaking ] SHE'S

2442
01:17:45,862 --> 01:17:46,429
WATCHING.

2443
01:17:46,429 --> 01:17:47,196
THAT'S ENOUGH.

2444
01:17:47,196 --> 01:17:48,698
>> WELL, THE KILLER HAD A LOT OF

2445
01:17:48,698 --> 01:17:50,033
NICKNAMES -- THE PIED PIPER,

2446
01:17:50,033 --> 01:17:51,434
HANNIBAL LECHTER, THE BOGEYMAN

2447
01:17:51,434 --> 01:17:52,335
OF STATEN ISLAND.

2448
01:17:52,335 --> 01:17:53,569
HIS VICTIMS WERE AMONG THE

2449
01:17:53,569 --> 01:17:54,437
MOST VULNERABLE.

2450
01:17:54,437 --> 01:17:55,404
THEY WERE CHILDREN.

2451
01:17:55,404 --> 01:17:56,706
AND TONIGHT, PROSECUTORS ARE

2452
01:17:56,706 --> 01:17:58,174
MAKING SURE THAT PREDATOR STAYS

2453
01:17:58,174 --> 01:17:59,275
BEHIND BARS.

2454
01:17:59,275 --> 01:18:01,644
>> 23 YEARS AGO, THE ENTIRE CITY

2455
01:18:01,644 --> 01:18:04,013
WAS TRANSFIXED WITH THE IMAGE OF

2456
01:18:04,013 --> 01:18:06,349
AN INNOCENT 7-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO

2457
01:18:06,349 --> 01:18:08,584
DISAPPEARED IN THE BLINK OF AN

2458
01:18:08,584 --> 01:18:09,152
EYE.

2459
01:18:09,152 --> 01:18:11,220
SADLY, HOLLY ANN HUGHES HAS

2460
01:18:11,220 --> 01:18:14,724
NEVER MADE IT HOME.

2461
01:18:14,724 --> 01:18:18,928
>> MR. RAND...

2462
01:18:18,928 --> 01:18:20,797
>> WHAT THE CONVICTION TODAY

2463
01:18:20,797 --> 01:18:22,298
DOES IS ASSURE US THAT

2464
01:18:22,298 --> 01:18:24,267
ANDRE RAND WILL DIE IN PRISON.

2465
01:18:24,267 --> 01:18:26,235
>> ANDRE RAND WAS SENTENCED 25

2466
01:18:26,235 --> 01:18:28,337
YEARS TO LIFE FOR THE KIDNAPPING

2467
01:18:28,337 --> 01:18:29,739
OF HOLLY ANN HUGHES.

2468
01:18:29,739 --> 01:18:31,707
HE WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR PAROLE

2469
01:18:31,707 --> 01:18:34,077
IN 2037.

2470
01:18:34,077 --> 01:18:37,446
HE WILL BE 93 YEARS OLD.

2471
01:18:37,446 --> 01:18:38,347
>> OOH.

2472
01:18:38,347 --> 01:18:39,115
>> YEAH.

2473
01:18:39,115 --> 01:18:41,450
>> NO MATTER HOW HORRIBLE THE

2474
01:18:41,450 --> 01:18:44,053
ALLEGATION WAS, THIS CASE WAS

2475
01:18:44,053 --> 01:18:46,389
HARDLY A CASE WHERE IT WAS

2476
01:18:46,389 --> 01:18:50,393
PROVED CONCLUSIVELY THAT THIS

2477
01:18:50,393 --> 01:18:52,161
GUY COMMITTED THIS CRIME.

2478
01:18:52,161 --> 01:18:54,263
>> THAT JUST GOES TO SHOW, WHEN

2479
01:18:54,263 --> 01:18:56,399
IT COMES TO A CHILD IS HURT, AN

2480
01:18:56,399 --> 01:18:59,402
INNOCENT CHILD IS LOST...

2481
01:18:59,402 --> 01:19:00,736
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT TO

2482
01:19:00,736 --> 01:19:01,905
BASICALLY LYNCH YOU.

2483
01:19:01,905 --> 01:19:03,506
AND IF THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY

2484
01:19:03,506 --> 01:19:05,041
TO LYNCH ANYBODY, THEY WOULD

2485
01:19:05,041 --> 01:19:05,775
LYNCH RAND.

2486
01:19:05,775 --> 01:19:07,443
>> DID YOU EVER THINK YOU WOULD

2487
01:19:07,443 --> 01:19:10,146
GET TO THIS DAY?

2488
01:19:10,146 --> 01:19:12,448
>> NO.

2489
01:19:12,448 --> 01:19:14,383
>> NO, NEVER THOUGHT I'D GET

2490
01:19:14,383 --> 01:19:14,984
HERE.

2491
01:19:14,984 --> 01:19:17,086
I DON'T FEEL LIKE I GOT CLOSURE

2492
01:19:17,086 --> 01:19:17,787
AT ALL.

2493
01:19:17,787 --> 01:19:19,889
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU NEVER GET

2494
01:19:19,889 --> 01:19:21,724
CLOSURE, AND THAT'S JUST A

2495
01:19:21,724 --> 01:19:23,126
BULLSHIT WORD, TOO.

2496
01:19:23,126 --> 01:19:25,228
I MEAN, IT HAPPENED, AND THAT'S

2497
01:19:25,228 --> 01:19:26,996
IT.

2498
01:19:26,996 --> 01:19:28,131
YOU GOT TO LIVE WITH IT.

2499
01:19:28,131 --> 01:19:29,098
YOU HAVE NO CHOICE.

2500
01:19:29,098 --> 01:19:30,266
I'D JUST LIKE TO FIND HER

2501
01:19:30,266 --> 01:19:33,069
REMAINS AND...

2502
01:19:33,069 --> 01:19:37,807
PUT IT TO REST.

2503
01:19:37,807 --> 01:19:39,075
>> ACTUALLY, PART OF THE

2504
01:19:39,075 --> 01:19:40,443
TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE, HE

2505
01:19:40,443 --> 01:19:42,045
CLAIMED THAT WE WERE LOOKING IN

2506
01:19:42,045 --> 01:19:42,946
THE WRONG SPOT.

2507
01:19:42,946 --> 01:19:44,047
WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT?

2508
01:19:44,047 --> 01:19:45,548
I'LL MAKE SURE WE LOOK IN THE

2509
01:19:45,548 --> 01:19:46,249
RIGHT SPOT.

2510
01:19:46,249 --> 01:19:47,483
>> WHERE WOULD THAT BE?

2511
01:19:47,483 --> 01:19:48,985
>> THAT'S WILLOWBROOK.

2512
01:19:48,985 --> 01:19:50,887
NOW'S THE TIME TO USE WHAT WE

2513
01:19:50,887 --> 01:19:52,922
LEARNED FROM THIS ONE TO REOPEN

2514
01:19:52,922 --> 01:19:54,590
ANOTHER ONE OF THE CASES.

2515
01:19:54,590 --> 01:19:56,492
I THINK HE LIKES PLAYING THIS

2516
01:19:56,492 --> 01:19:57,726
LITTLE HEAD GAME.

2517
01:19:57,726 --> 01:19:59,695
I THINK WE'RE GONNA GET LITTLE

2518
01:19:59,695 --> 01:20:04,400
HINTS OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

2519
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:06,069
YOU KNOW, HE LIKES TO BE THE

2520
01:20:06,069 --> 01:20:07,770
CENTER OF ATTENTION, THE ONE

2521
01:20:07,770 --> 01:20:09,472
THAT HOLDS -- THE KEEPER OF THE

2522
01:20:09,472 --> 01:20:11,107
SECRETS, AND I THINK THAT'S

2523
01:20:11,107 --> 01:20:12,741
GONNA PLAY A REAL IMPORTANT

2524
01:20:12,741 --> 01:20:13,142
PART.

2525
01:20:13,142 --> 01:20:14,443
>> DONNA, JUST SAY YOUR FULL

2526
01:20:14,443 --> 01:20:15,811
NAME FOR ME, AND TELL ME AGAIN

2527
01:20:15,811 --> 01:20:17,246
THE TITLE OF YOUR ORGANIZATION.

2528
01:20:17,246 --> 01:20:17,746
>> OKAY.

2529
01:20:17,746 --> 01:20:20,950
IT'S DONNA CUTUGNO. C-U-T-U-G...

2530
01:20:30,860 --> 01:20:32,728
>> WAS ANDRE RAND CONVICTED ON

2531
01:20:32,728 --> 01:20:33,829
FACT OR FICTION?

2532
01:20:33,829 --> 01:20:35,464
WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER KNOW.

2533
01:20:35,464 --> 01:20:37,000
BUT FOR THE RESIDENTS OF

2534
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:38,701
STATEN ISLAND, THERE WAS NO

2535
01:20:38,701 --> 01:20:39,903
DISTINCTION.

2536
01:20:39,903 --> 01:20:42,271
HE WAS THEIR CHILD MURDERER,

2537
01:20:42,271 --> 01:20:44,507
THEIR SCAPEGOAT, AND THEIR

2538
01:20:44,507 --> 01:20:47,076
BOGEYMAN ALL TIGHTLY WOVEN INTO

2539
01:20:47,076 --> 01:20:51,680
ONE.

2540
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:53,016
TO SOME, ANDRE RAND WAS THE

2541
01:20:53,016 --> 01:20:54,350
RINGLEADER TO AN UNDERGROUND

2542
01:20:54,350 --> 01:20:55,885
COMMUNITY OF OUTCASTS WHO ROAMED

2543
01:20:55,885 --> 01:20:57,887
THE WOODS.

2544
01:20:57,887 --> 01:20:59,755
TO OTHERS, HE WAS AN UNWITTING

2545
01:20:59,755 --> 01:21:01,724
PUPPET, MANIPULATED BY A DEVIANT

2546
01:21:01,724 --> 01:21:03,226
CULT THAT TRAFFICKED IN

2547
01:21:03,226 --> 01:21:05,394
CHILDREN...

2548
01:21:05,394 --> 01:21:07,263
OR A DELUSION MURDERER, FUELED

2549
01:21:07,263 --> 01:21:08,898
BY OUR OWN URBAN FAILURES,

2550
01:21:08,898 --> 01:21:10,866
KILLING THOSE HE THOUGHT WEREN'T

2551
01:21:10,866 --> 01:21:14,603
WORTHY OF LIVING.

2552
01:21:14,603 --> 01:21:16,139
WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE REAL

2553
01:21:16,139 --> 01:21:17,840
STORY BEHIND ANDRE RAND, SO ALL

2554
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,142
WE'RE LEFT WITH IS OUR

2555
01:21:19,142 --> 01:21:22,878
VERSION, THAT OF CROPSEY.

2556
01:21:22,878 --> 01:21:24,981
BUT NOW WE'VE ADDED ANOTHER

2557
01:21:24,981 --> 01:21:27,350
CHAPTER FOR THE NEXT GENERATION

2558
01:21:27,350 --> 01:21:29,318
OF KIDS ON STATEN ISLAND.

2559
01:21:29,318 --> 01:21:31,554
THE POWER OF THE URBAN LEGEND

2560
01:21:31,554 --> 01:21:33,856
IS THAT IT DOESN'T CLAIM TO BE

2561
01:21:33,856 --> 01:21:36,092
THE TRUTH, BUT RATHER IT SAYS

2562
01:21:36,092 --> 01:21:37,927
THE TRUTH IS A RANGE OF

2563
01:21:37,927 --> 01:21:40,029
POSSIBILITIES, AND IT'S THE

2564
01:21:40,029 --> 01:21:41,998
AUDIENCE WHO MUST DECIDE.

2565
01:21:41,998 --> 01:21:43,699
SO PICK ONE.