(THEME MUSIC PLAYS)
LOUISE MILLIGAN: For more than a century
Australian Rules football
has captivated the nation.
MIKE WILLIAMSON: Oh, Jesaulenko! You beauty!
ANTHONY HUDSON: I see it, but I don't believe it!
BRIAN TAYLOR: Streaming through! (CHEERING)
Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!
(CHEERING)
EDDIE MCGUIRE: I love it because it's the most egalitarian sport.
Doesn't matter how tall you are, how big you are,
Doesn't matter how tall you are, whoever's got the Sherrin in hand
is the most important person in the world at that moment.
Storytelling.
Symbolism.
Ceremony.
I mean, if it was in a pint glass, I would just pour it over my head.
I love that about the game.
But football's egalitarian spirit
belies a traditionally hypermasculine culture
where gay players still haven't found an entirely safe space.
where gay players still haven't found It's a feeling of complete isolation
and a feeling that, if you want to be a part of that game,
and a feeling that, if you a part of that situation,
you have to hide yourself.
I thought that if anyone found out that I was gay,
that they would hate me, that they would think I was disgusting
because that was how they spoke all the time.
On one hand,
football is an incredibly supportive and nurturing culture.
BOB MURPHY: We will put our arms around you,
and if there was a dissenting voice,
they will be told to shut the fuck up or get out.
they will be told A lot of talk, I mean...
On the other hand, A lot of talk, I mean...
On the other hand, there's decades of homophobia.
That is just an annoyingly gratuitous act.
What? Kissing your boyfriend.
What? (CHEERING) Kissing your boyfriend.
(CHEERING)
BRIAN TAYLOR: I am up here getting (CHEERING)
BRIAN TAYLOR: I am up here getting ready for it. He's a big poofter.
BRIAN TAYLOR: I am up here getting (LAUGHTER) ready for it. He's a big poofter. I mean, give him this one, Harry!
(LAUGHTER) I mean, give him this one, Harry!
It's the toxic culture that they have allowed to continue.
Do you think, given the statistics in the AFL,
that the AFL is a world leader in tackling homophobia?
No. No. I think it's clear that we're not.
Australian Rules football
is the only major sporting code Australian Rules football
is the only major sporting code in the world
that hasn't had a single male player is the only major sporting code in the world
that hasn't had a single male player
in the elite competition, present or even past,
publicly identify as gay.
In this episode of Four Corners
we investigate what is it about the culture in the AFL
we investigate what is it that has created this silence?
(INSECTS CHIRP)
This man held on to a secret for more than a decade.
I was about sort of 12 or 13.
I started realising who I was as a person.
I started noticing that there wasn't people like me around AFL,
there wasn't, you know, coaches, there wasn't AFL players.
I realised that the change rooms and the football field
was just not a place that accepted me.
And so you stopped playing? I stopped playing completely, yeah.
Let's get a move on.
He returned to football in his 20s
and now plays for Sydney's UNSW-Eastern Suburbs Bulldogs team.
In the change rooms in the bowels of Henson Park
they're pulling on their rainbow socks.
PLAYER: Back yourselves. I love you, boys.
Eight o'clock, boys!
Today the Dogs are playing in a Gay Pride Round.
They're not anywhere near as good as us. We make 'em feel it today. Yeah?
Let's go. Let's go.
One, two, three. ALL: Dogs!
One, two, three. Yeah!
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
IAIN DUNSTAN: These rounds (INDISTINCT CHATTER)
IAIN DUNSTAN: These rounds are really helpful for that,
the people to see that everyone's completely normal,
everything is fine here, the people to see that everyone's completely normal,
everything is fine here,
you know, there's nothing to fear,
there's nothing to worry about.
The sky is not going to fall.
The sky is NOT going to fall in.
Go, boys! The sky is NOT going to fall in.
Go, boys! Whoo!
Go, boys! (APPLAUSE)
This man is shrugging off the silence and the shame.
This man is shrugging off Right, boys, let's get out there!
He's gay and he's proud.
Come on, boys! Whoo!
I'm Michael O'Donnell,
and I want everyone to feel safe and comfortable on the football field.
We exist, and unless we tell people that we exist,
they don't know about us.
And so it's a really good opportunity to show younger people
that there is a place for them in the game.
What they are choosing is to not be the first person.
Thanks for all the support.
Finding a place for gay male players in the elite game of football
is something the AFL is still struggling with.
is something the AFL In April, AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan
confirmed to reporters there are In April, AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan
confirmed to reporters there are gay players currently in AFL clubs,
but the comments he made after that raised eyebrows.
So, the pressure and the weight of being THAT person
who is going to be the first AFL player
who comes out and plays as an out gay man,
who comes out I think that weight and that...
..and I, frankly, understand why
they would choose not to have to carry that burden around forever.
What do you think about that choice of words?
It's absolutely a burden not being able to be yourself.
I mean, you know what's a burden? It's absolutely a burden not being able to be yourself.
I mean, you know what's a burden?
A burden is having to hide I mean, you know what's a burden?
A burden is having to hide who you are every single day.
A burden is having to hide A burden is not being able
to talk about your relationships,
about what you're doing on the weekend
because people might figure out your sexuality.
because people That's a burden.
Being a role model,
being open about who you are, being proud of who you are -
that's not a burden, that's a privilege.
Michael O'Donnell used to work in communications
Michael O'Donnell for the Melbourne Football Club,
so, he understands the power of good messaging.
If he can't use the right words then,
that suggests to me that it hasn't been discussed
on a higher level or on a wider basis.
And that's quite concerning.
Why is that concerning?
Because it means they're not prepared.
If the AFL aren't prepared for a player to come out,
they're in denial
and it creates a bit of a vacuum as well.
Tanya Hosch is the AFL's General Manager
Tanya Hosch of Inclusion and Social Policy.
I can understand of Inclusion and Social Policy.
I can understand why Gill used that word.
You know, I can see how that would feel like a burden to people.
Speaking to LGBTIQ+ players and advocates,
they say that that was a negative word to use.
Yeah.
Surely that was a time,
these people say to us,
when the leader of the AFL
could have made a positive statement.
Yeah, look, I think
it's really good to hear that that's how it's been perceived.
Certainly, you know, I...
That... That framing you just gave
about the positive alternative and that encouragement,
about the positive alternative I've heard Gill do that as well.
And, you know, he was very strong I've heard Gill do that as well.
And, you know, he was very strong around the marriage-equality issue
and I think has demonstrated in lots of settings
that his support is absolutely there.
To get a sense of why the silence has been so pervasive
you have to look at the history.
Over many years
poking fun at gay people was a staple of programs like The Footy Show.
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
There's a new gay church up there.
There's a bit of a difference - only every second person kneels.
Sammy, if you're still watching there, mate,
next time Rowan takes your temperature,
make sure it IS actually a thermometer, alright?
make sure it IS actually (LAUGHTER)
MICHAEL O'DONNELL: It was just random jokes, little subtle words,
where you hear it constantly
and it really digs into you.
Hearing those sort of words
internalises your homophobia Hearing those sort of words
internalises your homophobia
and it creates a sort of
self-perpetuating hate within you as well.
And that can be really, really difficult to deal with,
and something that I dealt with for a really, really long time.
and something that I dealt with (INDISTINCT CHATTER)
Back in the 1990s
there was another young amateur footballer
who was also scared to reveal his true self.
who was also scared His name was Matt Hall.
In 1996 he contracted HIV.
Decades later In 1996 he contracted HIV.
Decades later Matt Hall made this film
Decades later to raise awareness about the disease.
MATT HALL: Dealing with your own mortality as a 23-year-old
is nothing I'd wish upon any person.
The Victorian Amateur Football Association
The Victorian banned Matt Hall from playing
because of his diagnosis.
Matt's doctor, Darren Russell, helped him fight that decision.
He just wanted to play footy, and he should be able to play footy.
He just wanted to play footy, And so we spoke about that,
and in the end
he decided to fight against that decision.
And I was incredibly proud of him for doing that.
It was really an amazing thing for a young man to do.
Please welcome Matt, who joins us tonight on The Footy Show.
Please welcome Matt, who joins us (APPLAUSE)
Matt decided that, in order to change hearts,
he needed to go on mainstream footy media.
(APPLAUSE)
Tell us first of all...
So, he came to me and he said,
"I've got this situation,
"I've got HIV and I'm being banned from playing football." "I've got this situation,
"I've got HIV and I'm being banned from playing football."
And we said, "Right, OK, this is a big story."
Why did you put your hand up?
I was reassured that I was 100% safe Why did you put your hand up?
I was reassured that I was 100% safe from my doctor...
Matt was fearful because of everything around him,
but so courageous in stepping up and having this conversation.
And my T-cells, which is your immune system...
Eddie McGuire supported Matt Hall.
Well, good on you, mate.
I hope we're talking to you in about 50 years' time...
I hope we're talking to you (APPLAUSE)
Matt Hall won his case
in the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.
He went public with the fact that he had HIV,
but he didn't go public with his other secret.
but he didn't go public Mm.
And looking back, that's...
..it's pretty incredible, really, And looking back, that's...
..it's pretty incredible, really, when you think about it.
..it's pretty incredible, really, He came out as having HIV in 1998
as a young sportsman in Melbourne,
you know, one of the first in the world really to do that,
and yet he couldn't come out as being gay or didn't feel he could.
It was another four years before he was able to do that.
And maybe that says something about all of us as a society
And maybe that says something and the football community
that it was easier having HIV and the football community
that it was easier having HIV than it was to be gay.
In 2002
Matt came out publicly as gay,
the first Australian Rules footballer, albeit an amateur player,
the first Australian Rules ever to do so.
During those years
the Australian government was confronting
the Australian government persistent homophobia in sport.
So, in 2000 the Australian government issued
what we would call a 'compliance directive' So, in 2000 the Australian government issued
what we would call a 'compliance directive'
to all of the major sports in Australia,
and that compliance directive essentially said,
"We have a serious homophobic language and discrimination problem
"and you are legally required to do something about it."
It didn't say, "This sometimes happens" or "occasionally happens."
It said, "These behaviours are widespread in sport.
"You have a legal and human rights obligation
"You have a legal and human rights "to do something about it."
The government warned sports that they risked costly litigation.
It told them that they needed to set up
a sophisticated anti-discrimination policy,
that they had to create an elaborate complaints process,
to keep a record of complaints
and to create meaningful anti-homophobia campaigns.
Every single step of the process was carefully laid out.
Two years later
journalist Richard Watts
was doing some research on homophobia in football
and he checked on the progress in implementing those guidelines.
What did you find when you went to the clubs in 2002?
None of them had acted on those guidelines.
They didn't even know it existed.
What was your... What did you make of that?
What was your... I was somewhat flabbergasted.
What do you think that it demonstrated
that the AFL's attitude was to that document?
that the AFL's attitude I think it demonstrated
that homophobia wasn't really on their radar.
21 years later
Four Corners decided to check with the AFL clubs and head office
to see if they had fully implemented the steps laid out in the warning.
We thought it a fairly uncontroversial proposition,
but we were met with some defensive responses.
One media executive labelled our questions 'aggressive'.
One club said that it couldn't reveal the information for privacy reasons.
And another banned us from filming on the premises from that time forward.
The AFL as a governing body has introduced a complaints process,
but we found that, while some clubs have done more than others,
none have fully implemented the guidelines.
And I just wonder
why is it that some of the AFL clubs and some parts of the AFL industry
are so defensive about questions that go to important issues.
Yeah, I'm surprised to hear that.
I'm really surprised to hear
that there would be defensiveness I'm really surprised to hear
that there would be defensiveness
about policies that, you know,
we're constantly reviewing and updating
to make sure that they don't become irrelevant and stale
to make sure that they don't become and that we don't, you know,
have knee-jerk reactions and that we don't, you know,
have knee-jerk reactions to a moment of crisis, so to speak.
It's updating, briefing club leadership
around what all of our responsibilities are
to create an environment that is free from discrimination,
and that is a really high priority.
RADIO VOICEOVER: SmartArts -
news, reviews and interviews about the arts
with Richard Watts.
And a very good morning to you. Richard with you here.
Working as an arts journalist and broadcaster,
Richard Watts has also been a gay activist for many years.
Richard Watts has also been So, we're going to be looking at...
Back in the early noughties
he began to support his childhood team, Collingwood,
after a long hiatus.
I didn't like football.
I associated it with the guys who bullied me at school.
And then in my 20s a friend took me to a game,
and I went, "Oh, it's actually a fun game."
But I would go to games and I would hear homophobic abuse,
and I thought it needed to be challenged
and I thought it needed to be called out.
I literally just called up the Collingwood Football Club one day
and said, "Do you have a gay and lesbian supporters group?"
and said, "Do you have And they said, "No.
"We'd be interested in having And they said, "No.
"We'd be interested in having a conversation. Come on in."
"We'd be interested in having All that and more on the show today.
Hope you can stick around for a while.
Hope you can stick around Richard Watts told Collingwood
he wanted to call the group Richard Watts told Collingwood
he wanted to call the group the Pink Magpies.
The next day, when he was broadcasting his radio program,
The next day, when he was he got a call.
The receptionist literally kind of put the phone down
and looked at me very puzzled and went,
"Richard, Eddie McGuire is on the phone for you."
Eddie McGuire also wanted a gay supporter group.
So, the Pink Magpies became the first organisation of its kind in the AFL.
Today there are Rainbow Pride clubs for many teams.
You set up the Pink Magpies in August 2001.
22 years ago.
Still, to this day, not a single AFL player, present or past,
Still, to this day, not a single has publicly identified as gay.
Which baffles me
and to me says something about
not necessarily overt homophobia
but covert homophobia in the AFL.
I believe there must be some kind of pressure
keeping people in the closet.
If you're a 14- or a 15-year-old and you're gay,
you can come to a football club, you can be part of it...
So, you were quietly behind the scenes,
really, an ally of the gay community,
in helping set up the Pink Magpies.
Yeah.
And often on The Footy Show as well
when there were arguments and so on about these issues,
you were actually coming in defence...
Yeah. ..of the gay community.
Yeah.
But there were lots of comments made
that were really hurtful to gay people
in that forum and in other football forums.
Yeah. Yeah, there were. Yeah.
I'm not being defensive of football, Yeah. Yeah, there were. Yeah.
I'm not being defensive of football,
but I see football as being a microcosm of the community.
You're going to have people who fervently believe it's wrong
because of their religious convictions
because of their religious or whatever the case may be
or they just don't think it's right
or they don't like the lifestyle or they just don't think it's right
or they don't like the lifestyle of some people who are gay,
or they don't like the lifestyle etcetera, etcetera.
You know, some people like red wine, some people like white wine.
You know, some people like red There's no, you know...
But if you have got There's no, you know...
But if you have got enough opportunity,
particularly on footy shows like that, where...
I always feel that it's good to have some knuckleheads,
it's good to have this discussion come,
and then you can have the debate.
Not even a debate. Then you can have the conversation.
The only thing I'd be uncomfortable with - if I was in the showers...
Drop the soap! And... No.
In the showers, and I knew a player was gay
and we're all showering together and...
and we're all showering together As time wore on,
smutty innuendo on football media As time wore on,
smutty innuendo on football media became something more intense.
I'd be uncomfortable. (LAUGHTER)
It made me worried about I'd be uncomfortable. (LAUGHTER)
It made me worried about
what other people would think about me if I was gay.
And in change rooms, you know,
there's showers, there's those sort of things,
and it really did scare me. there's those sort of things,
and it really did scare me.
In 2010
the AFL Players Association decided it needed to stand firm
against homophobia in the game. decided it needed to stand firm
against homophobia in the game.
It drafted Western Bulldogs star Jason Akermanis
to write about it in his regular newspaper column.
But the column that appeared in the paper caused a scandal.
REPORTER: The controversial forward says,
"Gay footballers should stay in the closet."
I think some footballers think "Gay footballers should stay in the closet."
I think some footballers think
there's something wrong with people, they have some kind of disease,
there's something wrong with people, but I don't think that, of course.
Akermanis, who is now a real-estate agent in Brisbane,
has always been a divisive figure,
but he believes he represents a view still held by many in football.
He does say the newspaper's headline was not true to his words.
It was changed a lot.
But nowhere was there like, "Stay in the closet," or anything like that.
I just said, "Why would you bother? Do you need...
"Think about it. We don't care. It's up to you."
Back then I was like, "Well, you know, give them a different slant."
"Why would you want to? You have to think about it. Is it worth it?"
"Why would you want to? You have to They're good questions to ask.
You've got to weigh it up.
You know, it is a burden. It's a heavy burden.
What was the feeling in your gut when you saw those words in print?
What was the feeling in your gut I was disgusted.
I was embarrassed.
And I was hurt.
But then the hurt took a turn.
What if one of my team-mates is gay?
Bob Murphy was a player
in the Western Bulldogs leadership team
at the time Jason Akermanis wrote the column.
It's the first time he's agreed to an interview about the subject.
We showed Bob Murphy the news coverage from the time.
We showed Bob Murphy I think some footballers think
there's something wrong with people, they have some kind of disease,
there's something wrong with people, but I don't think that, of course.
Murphy and other players but I don't think that, of course.
Murphy and other players confronted Akermanis,
Murphy and other players and it led to a breakdown in trust
that ultimately saw the Bulldogs sack Akermanis.
Murphy still struggles to say his name.
I did want to get on record with the author and say...
I did want to get on record ..I think what I said to him was,
"That abhorrent shit that you wrote in the paper..."
"That abhorrent shit For me at that time in my life
I was like, For me at that time in my life
I was like, "Well, that's... We're done."
You were branded as a homophobe for writing that column.
Oh, yeah. Are you a homophobe?
Yeah, I got branded every homophobic...you name it. Oh, yeah. Are you a homophobe?
Yeah, I got branded every homophobic...you name it.
Just because I write about it and you don't agree with it
doesn't mean that I'm like...
That would mean that I'm scared of gay people,
which is just complete crap.
Look, I personally don't care one way or the other
as long as you don't sort of throw it in my face
or try and tell me where I'm not interested,
then...you know, I don't go around telling anyone
then...you know, what I do in my private life.
There were people who disagreed with what you said.
What about the people who were hurt by what you said?
Well, I always say anyone that's hurt,
"That's YOUR issue, it's YOUR problem,
"so, if you need to seek counselling, go and do it."
"so, if you need (COMMENTATOR SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
The hurt continued.
In 2012
the Saints' Stephen Milne used a homophobic slur
the Saints' Stephen Milne right in the middle of the MCG.
(CHEERING)
(COMMENTATOR SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
COMMENTATOR: The umpire said then that that was reckless.
They'll certainly have a look at it...
(UMPIRE BLOWS WHISTLE) 50 metres as well.
That language is unacceptable!
(CHEERING)
The slur had a galvanising effect.
Watching was a young footballer from Melbourne's Yarra Valley.
Jason Ball, who was an amateur player,
decided to stand up to be part of change.
JASON BALL: I had an actual experience
of what it was like to hear homophobic language,
what it was like to feel like
I wouldn't be accepted, like I had to hide who I was,
like I had to choose
between being who I was and playing the game that I loved.
And so that was why I wanted to share my story.
(PROTESTERS CHANT INDISTINCTLY)
ALL: (CHANT) We will not be quiet!
Jason Ball now works in London for an LGBTIQ+ charity.
He's a passionate activist.
But back in 2012
he became the second Australian Rules footballer after Matt Hall
to come out publicly as gay.
(PROTESTERS CHANT INDISTINCTLY)
Jason Ball was the face of a change.org petition.
The petition specifically asked the AFL
to show 'No To Homophobia' ads on the big screen
to show 'No To Homophobia' ads and to commit to a Pride Round.
It was about a few days after my petition was launched
that I got a call from the then CEO, Andrew Demetriou,
who said that the AFL would screen
'No To Homophobia' ads on the big screen during the finals.
He expected the floodgates to open.
They didn't.
Yeah, the floodgates didn't open.
You know, I was hoping that that would be an example
for an AFL player who was in my situation
for an AFL player to know that it can be OK.
We've since had other players come out in other leagues
all around the world and here in Australia,
but, sure enough, here in the AFL,
but, sure enough, it's the one code
where there's no male player who yet, past or present,
has felt comfortable enough to come out.
Brock McLean,
a talented midfielder
for Carlton and the Melbourne Demons,
supported Jason Ball at the time he came out.
Brock was one of two professional AFL players
Brock was one of two who were the first in the competition
to ever walk who were the first in the competition
to ever walk in Melbourne's Gay Pride march.
I just remember on the day I didn't think it was a big deal,
like, all I was doing is just walking with someone
down Fitzroy Street.
But I had so many gay people who were there that day
and they said, "You have no idea how much, you know, this means to me."
And I was like, "If that's all it takes to make a huge difference,
"you know, to such a marginalised community of people,
"then, you know, that's the least I can do."
(WHISTLE BLOWS)
Brock McLean has retired (WHISTLE BLOWS)
Brock McLean has retired from professional football now
and plays for a team in a small country town.
and plays for a team (INDISTINCT CHATTER)
Oh, yeah. Got a media release!
(LAUGHTER)
Oh, here we go. Don't be shy now, boys. Don't be shy!
Oh, here we go. Don't be shy now, No, I'm not!
(LAUGHTER)
He's not gay, but he knows what it's like to feel isolated and alone
inside the change rooms of the hypermasculine world of football.
That's it. Well done.
Here we go! Come on!
Feed off each other!
(INDISTINCT ENCOURAGEMENT)
When Brock (INDISTINCT ENCOURAGEMENT)
When Brock was marching with Jason Ball
his team didn't know he was mentally tormented and abusing narcotics.
There was a good couple of years there
where suicidal ideation
was something that I experienced on a daily basis.
was something that I experienced I couldn't talk to anyone about it
because it would have been emasculating
and a huge sign of failure and weakness.
and a huge sign So, I could certainly empathise
with, you know,
anyone who might have been hiding their own sexuality.
Bob Murphy also feels passionate about speaking up against homophobia
Bob Murphy also feels passionate in the sport he loves.
He considers himself a strong ally of the gay community,
and that's why he's chosen to talk about a memory he's ashamed of
and that's why he's chosen to from his early days in football.
BOB MURPHY: I was playing in the forward line
BOB MURPHY: and I was going through
what would be commonly known as the 'goal-kicking yips'.
It's where you're not just missing goals,
you are completely mentally ravaged,
like, you go from missing goals, like, easy goals,
to you're not even getting close.
Murphy, who now works for the Fremantle Dockers,
remembered something he'd often say to himself
remembered something when he was missing those goals.
And I would refer to myself
as a, "Fuckin' poofter. And I would refer to myself
as a, "Fuckin' poofter. You fuckin' poofter."
as a, "Fuckin' poofter. And at the time I didn't even...
It was a thoughtless...
I was just thinking about It was a thoughtless...
I was just thinking about the goal and the technique
I was just thinking about and the mental anguish and the...
But that's what I said to myself.
I hated it about myself so much
and it...you know, it then forces I hated it about myself so much
and it...you know, it then forces you to ask deeper questions like,
and it...you know, it then forces "Why? Why is that your reaction?"
And then I... Then you start,
"Who walked behind me? Who else was around?
"What if... What if a gay footballer
"who I played with,
"who would have assumed I was an ally,
"heard me talk like that about myself
"in a way that's... self-flagellation?"
You know.
Equating 'poofter' with 'weak'.
Yep.
And...
..sitting here with you...
..is me trying to create that space of...
..putting myself out there
and giving my support credibility
by also saying I'm not perfect
and I've got something that I'm deeply ashamed of.
And if I hurt someone, I'll never get over it.
Call it! Call it!
The homophobic language often starts at junior football,
where many studies have found slurs are commonplace.
UNSW-Eastern Suburbs Bulldogs president, Iain Dunstan,
UNSW-Eastern Suburbs Bulldogs has seen it too.
IAIN DUNSTAN: So, they use words they don't even know.
I've had to go to the tribunal with a 12-year-old who...
..used an inappropriate word.
What was the word? 'Faggot'.
Right, 'faggot' is a very common term with teenage boys.
Right, 'faggot' is a very common And I got to the tribunal
and he was charged with, you know, And I got to the tribunal
and he was charged with, you know, inappropriate language.
and he was charged with, you know, And we went to the tribunal,
he had absolutely no idea what he'd said.
The constant use of homophobic language, he had absolutely no idea what he'd said.
The constant use of homophobic language,
the constant use of sexist language,
as a means to assert one's sort of masculinity and toughness,
it kind of just felt like it went hand in hand with the game.
It was part and parcel of the culture. It was expected.
And, you know, I took that really seriously when I heard it.
I thought that, if anyone found out that I was gay,
I thought that, if anyone that they would hate me.
Dr Erik Denison is one of the country's leading experts
on collating data on homophobic language in sport.
ERIK DENISON: The idea that AFL is safe and inclusive and welcoming
for gay people
is just...it's fiction.
It's a delusion. It's not true.
So, if we want to come up, and we'll take it in turns.
Dr Denison charted how, in 2014,
then AFL CEO, Andrew Demetriou,
pledged to take action
to make the code a world leader in tackling homophobia.
(APPLAUSE)
ANDREW DEMETRIOU: Vilification based on sexual identity
ANDREW DEMETRIOU: Vilification is just as serious an offence
as vilification based on gender, race, religion.
And in that commitment it says
that homophobic behaviour and other things
are widespread in sport and cause serious harm to children.
So, we signed that.
They've committed to do something about it. So, we signed that.
They've committed to do something about it.
And now people who are harmed by that
And now could seek compensation from them
because they've admitted there's a problem.
because they've admitted Since 2014
we've done analysis of the different sports
looking at who's taken action, who hasn't,
and the AFL is way at the bottom.
Andrew Demetriou was the CEO of the AFL
Andrew Demetriou and he promised that the AFL
would be a world leader in tackling homophobia.
Do you think, given the statistics in the AFL,
that the AFL is a world leader in tackling homophobia?
No. No. I think it's clear that we're not. that the AFL is a world leader in tackling homophobia?
No. No. I think it's clear that we're not.
But, you know, certainly that we're not.
But, you know, certainly
for us to be a world leader,
it's a great ambition for us to be a world leader,
but we're certainly not there yet.
There's different work happening across the states.
What I would say, though, is...openly acknowledge
that we've got a lot more to do at large across the entire code.
And I think we're putting the right building blocks in place
to be, you know, a stronger contributor.
Since 2016 the Sydney Swans and St Kilda
Since 2016 have hosted an annual Pride Match.
The Swans released this Pride chant this year.
(CHEERING)
Chloe Clark is an activism coordinator at Amnesty International.
She's been trying unsuccessfully for years
to get other teams in the AFL men's competition
to get other teams to agree to a Pride Round.
What does the research show about Pride Rounds?
It shows that even by having the conversation
that homophobic behaviour and language rapidly changes.
It shows that people are very receptive to this.
It shows that if you do an entire Pride Round
and you take people on that journey with you,
you take people on that and you educate them,
it shows that, you know, the likes of homophobic use of language
it shows that, you know, the likes can reduce 40%.
How does the AFL can reduce 40%.
How does the AFL compare to other sports
when it comes to tackling homophobia?
They just don't compare to other sports.
Two months ago
the AFL Players' Association released a report
the AFL Players' Association based on a survey of AFL players.
The footballers described a culture of silence
The footballers where they felt threatened
by the potential consequences of speaking out.
It talks about the culture of silence,
It talks about but there's one big, giant silence
that isn't discussed in that report
and that is the one that we're speaking about today.
Yeah, and it's...this is a topic and that is the one that we're speaking about today.
Yeah, and it's...this is a topic
that I think we all are very interested in.
I think players have felt very uncomfortable
I think players taking issue or talking up
about things that potentially taking issue or talking up
about things that potentially negatively impact the team.
It's something we need to keep working on
because, you know, at its core, these are people issues,
and I think at times
you've got to actually put the performance of the team
you've got to actually as a secondary consideration
if people's rights are being... or people are being harmed
through what's happening within the industry.
Everyone has the right to be who they are through what's happening within the industry.
Everyone has the right to be who they are
and to express that and to be safe doing so.
It's absolutely a human-rights issue and to be safe doing so.
It's absolutely a human-rights issue
that no-one can...or is openly gay within the AFL at the moment.
that no-one can...or is openly gay Mm. Yeah. It is.
However, we also are told by clubs and club leaders
that they do know who their gay team-mates are
and they're just choosing not to make it more widely public.
and they're just choosing But why are they choosing that?
Because they don't feel safe. Right.
They don't feel safe going to the Brownlow
and flagging that this is their male partner.
So, it's not about necessarily having a big press conference
and telegraphing to the world who you are,
but just living your life.
Well, certainly I know that the data suggests
that, you know, people who are having to not live as they wish to,
that, you know, people who are loving who they love,
certainly do have real disadvantages
in being able to perform at their best in all parts of their life.
So, really aware of how important that is.
My message is I'm sorry that that is your experience
and I hope that it doesn't remain so.
and I hope And if you do want to find a way
to express to me or others within football
what it is that will make a difference for you,
what it is please, do let us know.
We want to support you and stand with you.
When we asked every single AFL club
if they could provide current male players who could discuss this issue,
if they could provide current male not one of them accepted.
I've made dozens of calls to men across the AFL about this topic
I've made dozens of calls to men and I often got the impression
that they found the conversation kind of awkward.
They'd say, "Oh, this is very sensitive, Louise."
I spoke to current and former players
and, yes, I did meet with one who confirmed that he is gay.
and, yes, I did meet with one Some of the players
were initially very enthusiastic about the conversation,
but then they'd just disappear.
They'd go silent.
Shifting the dial in the AFL
has been the arrival Shifting the dial in the AFL
has been the arrival of the women's game.
The women are not silent.
Izzy Huntington was a star player The women are not silent.
Izzy Huntington was a star player
at the Western Bulldogs
who is now at Greater Western Sydney.
IZZY HUNTINGTON: Part of the uniqueness of the AFLW has been
that real emphasis on inclusion
and an incredibly safe space
for the queer community,
which I guess in sport for the queer community,
which I guess in sport isn't all too common.
For Izzy Huntington, this isn't just a theoretical proposition.
She came out after several years of playing AFLW.
You sort of get a lot of comments -
"Oh, women's footy is just flooded with lesbians,"
"Oh, women's footy and, you know...
..it's not.
Society is, really,
it's just that that space
is welcoming enough and inclusive enough
that people feel comfortable to be themselves and come out,
which is really, really beautiful
and I wish that we could replicate in all areas of society.
and I wish that we could replicate Contrast that with the men's game.
Yeah, I think the contrast Contrast that with the men's game.
Yeah, I think the contrast is pretty remarkable.
The fact that there aren't any openly gay players in the men's game
The fact that there aren't any or queer players
is problematic.
I think it can be a pretty toxic is problematic.
I think it can be a pretty toxic sort of culture at some points.
That toxic culture has bled into the women's game.
Izzy Huntington showed Four Corners
some of the homophobic and misogynistic trolling she's received.
I think it shows just how far we've got to go in this space.
As long as we stay silent on these sorts of comments
and homophobic behaviours and homophobic slurs,
whether it be at the grounds or in the locker rooms,
at teams or online,
I think then it...
..yeah, it becomes an accepted thing.
Hawthorn captain, Tilly Lucas-Rodd,
is one of four non-binary players
who've played AFLW.
The club produced a video to tell Tilly's story to the fans.
My name is Tilly, and I'm the Hawthorn AFLW captain. The club produced a video to tell Tilly's story to the fans.
My name is Tilly, and I'm the Hawthorn AFLW captain.
My name is Tilly, For me, the label 'non-binary'
kind of feels the most comfortable about how I identify
in terms of my gender.
The coming-out experience of players
is perhaps the most extraordinary juxtaposition
between the men's and women's game.
One thing for me I was contemplating in that year
One thing for me before I came out as non-binary
was, "Can I just keep hiding it and live this way and be fine with it?"
But, when you come out, I think everything gets better,
But, when you come out, and that's the same as footy.
My team and the staff around me, I guess, have fully embraced me
and it, I guess, means that you can live authentically
and it probably makes you a better person.
It made me a better leader and a better footballer
because there's no part of me now that I have to hide
and I can just authentically be Tilly.
By contrast, in the men's game,
Danielle Laidley,
formerly a tough player and coach Danielle Laidley,
formerly a tough player and coach nicknamed the 'Junkyard Dog',
formerly a tough player and coach was brutally outed as trans
by Victoria Police officers who arrested her on drugs charges.
But Danielle Laidley was embraced by her football mates.
She's contracted to star in a documentary.
EDDIE MCGUIRE: The footy world went, "Hang on a second,"
you know, "What are you doing to one of ours?"
you know, "What are you doing You know, "How dare you?
"How dare you?" You know, "How dare you?
"How dare you?"
And Dani came in to see me
after a period of time.
And we were talking about doing the documentary,
and Dani said to me, "I thought football would kill me.
"It saved my life."
And at that moment I thought, "You know what?
And at that moment I thought, "It is a pretty good game.
"Yeah, we have our problems. "It is a pretty good game.
"Yeah, we have our problems. We muck up.
"But there's a genuine concern for people."
MATT HALL: I think stigma relating to HIV still exists.
It was Eddie McGuire who reminded me during my research
of the story of Matt Hall.
But when I googled Matt's name
the first mention I found was an obituary from 10 days before.
My heart sunk.
I was really... I was really saddened that Matt had passed.
And I think it's important that he's remembered
in this film that you're doing on this.
in this film And, yeah, he played a major role.
Yeah. Matt... Matt should not be forgotten.
I've been living with it for so long...
I've been living with it Matt Hall died unexpectedly
after 27 years living with HIV
and working to fight stigma against his disease and his sexuality.
DARREN RUSSELL: He passed before his time.
He did an amazing amount of good,
and I'm not sure he was aware how much good he actually did.
Sorry.
(CLEARS THROAT)
So, yeah, I think he'll be... he'll be missed.
He's done a lot of...a lot of good work
for people living with HIV and for gay guys,
and he's done a lot of good work for footy,
and now people can play footy if they have HIV
and they should be able to be gay if they play footy too.
(WHISTLE BLOWS)
That's what Michael O'Donnell thinks too,
That's what Michael O'Donnell so, he's living by example.
(INDISTINCT YELLING)
MICHAEL O'DONNELL: At no point has someone ever said,
"I wish I was still in the closet."
That doesn't... It doesn't exist.
It's... The weight that comes off your shoulders is extraordinary.
I think it would absolutely make you a better player
I think it would absolutely because you can focus more on that.
It's a pretty big weight to carry.
And getting rid of that, I think, would help you soar.
COACH: Good, Em! Good, Em!
COACH: Good, Em! Good, Lis! Good shepherd!
Nice, Jo!
Michael O'Donnell doesn't believe in coaxing anyone out of the closet.
He just wants anyone who's thinking about coming out
He just wants anyone to know it's going to be OK.
I lost 15 years because to know it's going to be OK.
I lost 15 years because there was no-one ahead of me.
And if we can have someone come out and stop that happening,
there will be, you know, a bunch of young, very talented AFL players
who end up in the top level of the game,
and that would be awesome
and that would be a great legacy for someone to leave.
It will transform lives, it will save lives
It will transform lives, to have a role model in the AFL,
to know that young people to have a role model in the AFL,
to know that young people who are gay
don't...are not going to be put into a box.
They can still be anything, they can still be anyone,
they can still be an AFL footballer.
Demolish the closet
and you'll be a better player and a happier person.
And what will the Rainbow fans be doing?
And what will the Rainbow fans We'll be cheering them on.
COACH: Tristan, you're gonna go to a halfback, alright, mate?
Try and give us a little bit of run. They're pretty quick.
Also cheering them on will be some former footy players
who know what it's like to doubt themselves and to feel alone.
who know what it's like to (INDISTINCT CHATTER)
Please call me. I'll give my number to Louise.
You can get in touch with her.
You can call me, you can text me, you can email me.
Whatever the case is, I'll always have your back no matter what.
Come on. Let's have a go! (INDISTINCT ENCOURAGEMENT)
Come on!
BOB MURPHY: You will be fought for. You'll be supported.
And if someone...if there was a dissenting voice,
they will be told to shut the fuck up or get out.
I would think that, a player to stand up in front of his team-mates
I would think that, a player to and say, "I'm... I'm gay,
"and I'm one of you, and I want you to accept me,"
"and I'm one of you, that that would be like a superpower
for your football team and your football club.
And, please, I want a gay footballer in my football club
so we can get up and wrap our arms around him
and say, "You're one of us. We love you. You're brave.
"You're braver than anyone in this league,
"so, that makes us braver than everyone else
"so, that makes us braver "and that will help us win."
And THEN we might get change.
Captions by Red Bee Media
Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation