1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,280 The doors to the Den are open for business. 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,960 A place where fortunes are made and futures are forged. 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,680 But this time the game has changed. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,280 A fresh wave of fierce investors 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,680 are out to shake things up and steal the deals. 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:23,480 Tonight... 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,880 I'm Jenna Meek. I'm a serial entrepreneur. 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,040 I'm currently the co-founder and CEO of REFY Beauty. 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,160 - Jenna, welcome back to the Den. - No, thank you for having me back. 10 00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:34,960 I'm excited for today. 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,560 When I look into the eyes of an entrepreneur, 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,880 there is literally one thing I'm looking for. 13 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,800 It's their belief that their idea is going to succeed. 14 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,280 I can see in people's eyes if they're lying to me. 15 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,360 I know exactly what I can bring to a business. 16 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,080 So if there's a fight for an investment, 17 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,080 I will be absolutely fighting for it. 18 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,000 I love disagreeing with the Dragons. I really, really do. 19 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,840 I am not scared of any of the Dragons. 20 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,840 If anything, they should be scared of me. 21 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,080 SHE LAUGHS 22 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,320 I'm Zaahirah, my business is called hati. 23 00:01:11,320 --> 00:01:14,400 I want to start a movement of human connection, 24 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,200 and my pitch starts in quite a unique way. 25 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,680 I'm just trying to throw the Dragons a little bit off kilter. 26 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,880 - OK. Absolutely no idea. - Zero idea. 27 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,560 - I'm stuck. - There's something a bit eerie about it. 28 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,800 There Is something a bit eerie. 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,880 My perfect match in a Dragon for my business would be Steven. 30 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,400 He understands, like, the Millennial generation, the Gen Z 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,000 generation, can really get us front and centre. 32 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,920 Hello, Dragons. I'm Z, and I'm the founder of hati. 33 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:26,160 We are gathered here today to finally lay to rest 34 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,560 traditional dating apps. Because for those of us like myself 35 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,800 who are in search of real human connection, 36 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,880 they've wasted enough of our time. 37 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,760 Now, before I tell you any more, I wanted to give you a quick question. 38 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,600 I can either continue to pitch this to you myself, 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,720 or I can put the rest of the pitch up on the screen behind me, 40 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,400 lay in this coffin, and allow you to read it. 41 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,280 The choice is yours. 42 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:51,920 - I'd say get in the coffin. - I'd say get in the coffin. 43 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:52,960 SHE LAUGHS 44 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,760 DEBORAH: You should never ask that of a Dragon. 45 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,400 We're all going to say, "Get in the coffin." 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,560 OK, I'm really going to need you to let me pitch this to you, 47 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,320 please, rather than just reading the story! 48 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,480 All right, go on. 49 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,480 SHE LAUGHS 50 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,000 No, we'd love to hear from you instead. 51 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,280 It would've been really awkward 52 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,120 if you actually wanted me to get in the coffin, 53 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:08,240 because, let's face it, 54 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,400 you'd never make a business decision over text alone, 55 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,880 so why are we dating that way? 56 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,080 80% of users of traditional dating apps 57 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:16,920 are emotionally burnt out by them. 58 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:18,880 And I should know, because I'm one of them. 59 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,200 After deleting them for what felt like the hundredth time, 60 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,120 I hit my absolute breaking point - 61 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,160 and from the ashes of my absolute despair at that point, 62 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:28,840 hati was born. 63 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,160 The online dating industry 64 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,720 is potentially worth over $9 billion 65 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,600 and yet today, only 15% to 20% of matches 66 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,520 ever turn into a two-way conversation. 67 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,720 On hati, we're completely flipping the script. 68 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,320 Instead, every single match 69 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,800 will turn into a five-minute scheduled voice or video call. 70 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,320 So once you connect, there's no messaging, 71 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,760 there's no dialling in, there's no scheduling. 72 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,280 The app automatically does it for you. 73 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:53,840 There's no exchanging numbers. 74 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,040 The app calls you both at the right time and connects you. 75 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,320 After the call, you choose. 76 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,880 You can speak to that person again or end the match forever. 77 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,080 We launched on the 14th of February, we made revenue in ten days, 78 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,600 and we've already grown to over 5,000 downloads. 79 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,680 Today, I'm offering you the opportunity 80 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,160 to invest £150,000 for 5% of a business 81 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,680 that will become the next unicorn. 82 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,680 Dragons, this isn't just an investment in an app, 83 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,680 it's an investment in rehumanising the way that we find love. 84 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,400 Are you in? 85 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,440 You're going to have to wait to find out. 86 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:28,920 THEY LAUGH 87 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,680 I was really hoping you were just going to go straight to "Yes." 88 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:38,040 Looking to spark a connection with a Dragon 89 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,120 is online romance revolutionary Zaahirah 90 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,720 and her next-generation dating app. 91 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,240 The entrepreneur is seeking £150,000 92 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,920 for a 5% share in her business. 93 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:56,480 First to lean in with a question is Deborah Meaden. 94 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:02,440 I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name. 95 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,480 - Did you say? - Z. - Z? - Well, my full name is Zaahirah, 96 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,040 but everyone calls me Z. 97 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,400 Zaahirah, that's lovely. 98 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,520 Z. OK, so, I mean, the idea sounds great. 99 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,960 Just explain where you are with the business at the moment. 100 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,800 What's your revenue model, 101 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,880 and how much money have you made today? 102 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,240 I'm assuming you mean February the 14th this year... 103 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,760 - This year. - ..you started. Right, so it is quite new. 104 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,280 Brand-new - and, like, my whole point of launching it 105 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:28,640 was to prove that there is a different revenue model 106 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,200 you can have against a dating app. 107 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:31,760 So some of the traditional ones 108 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,480 took anywhere between two and five years to monetise. 109 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,200 So one of the ways we make revenue 110 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,720 is through booking dates through the app. 111 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,520 So we get a commission for every date that's been booked. 112 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,000 The other way is we've integrated 113 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,240 with dating coaching and mental health, 114 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,360 cos my philosophy isn't just get people on better dates, 115 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,440 it's actually make people better daters. 116 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,800 So we also get commission from any dating coaching 117 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,200 that's been booked through the app - and then, eventually, 118 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,360 we want to trial things like minimum subscriptions. 119 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,120 So it's everyone, and it's not a lot. It's, like, 2.99 a month. 120 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,000 Is that the longest version of you saying 121 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,800 it's pre-revenue that I have ever heard in my life? 122 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,080 So we've only made about £48 of revenue so far, yeah. 123 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,120 THEY LAUGH 124 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,200 All of those words you gave were good and really interesting, 125 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,920 - but you're pre-revenue, really. - Pre-revenue, yeah. 126 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,920 OK, so you've got 5,000 people signed up. 127 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,080 How many of those are actually active users? 128 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,960 So it varies on the day. We've had about 17,500 likes sent, 129 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,000 we've had 100 phone calls - but a lot of people 130 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,760 have now run out of people to actually go on a date with. 131 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,920 So we largely grew through, like, organic TikTok. 132 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,880 So we had a couple of videos go massively viral, 133 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,920 just me explaining the concept. 134 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Then you get users all over the country, 135 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:40,920 you don't just get them in London, which is a real problem 136 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,400 cos, really, this is hyper-localised, right? 137 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,560 So you want to launch in London and then scale it. 138 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,920 So, yeah. 139 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,480 Z, I have a lot of experience in this industry. 140 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,760 - I've spent some time with the founder and CEO of Hinge. - Mm-hm. 141 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,520 I've also spent some time with the CEO of Tinder, 142 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,760 good friends with the CEO of Bumble. 143 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,280 So this is a very difficult challenge, right? 144 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:05,320 And everything you've said about people's dismay 145 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,560 and dissatisfaction with dating apps is so unbelievably true. 146 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,480 I hear it all the time from everybody, 147 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,440 and I would just hate to be on the dating app circuit. 148 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,840 And that video that went viral... 149 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,800 - Yeah. - ..what were you saying in the video? 150 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,840 Literally, just me explaining the concept. 151 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,440 And what part of it was resonant? 152 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,000 I think, A - it's very novel, right? 153 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,480 We've completely scrapped messaging. 154 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,120 The app auto-schedules you a five-minute call with your date. 155 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,640 So I think there's a couple of things in the community 156 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,360 aspect of it of, like, we will only accept people on there 157 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,280 who are willing to actually get verified. 158 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:39,720 And also, we have a ghosting penalty, 159 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,480 so if people don't turn up they get banned from the app. 160 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,840 And I think that's resonating for a lot of reasons right now 161 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,320 because the younger generation are demanding more, 162 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,640 the Gen Z lot, who are, like, "No, we want human connection." 163 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,480 Like, they want raw authenticity 164 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,640 in a way that I don't think the traditional dating apps have. 165 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,960 So you're the anti-dating app. You've taken every feature 166 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:02,720 that people hate about the traditional dating environment, 167 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,200 and, basically, you're trying to do the opposite. 168 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,720 So there's a narrative there. 169 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,040 Z, you've come in with a three million valuation, 170 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,080 and a project that's been worked on for a few months. 171 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,760 How can you justify that? 172 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,240 So part of the reason for that 173 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,680 is I've got a letter of intent from an investor at 4.5 million, 174 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,920 but I completely recognise 175 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,320 how much value you would all bring to the table. 176 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,520 How much is that investor going to bring? 177 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,880 150K. 178 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,800 Yeah, I think you should have signed that and got that money. 179 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,120 Then you wouldn't have needed to come here. 180 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,400 I think this is still an incredible opportunity, though, right? 181 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,120 Like, whether I walk out with money 182 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,240 or the chance to just have interacted with all of you. 183 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,600 No, I do, but I think you've come in with a valuation of three million, 184 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,720 and you're pre-revenue. 185 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,120 You can't for one minute have thought 186 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,080 that that wouldn't be fairly controversial. 187 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,760 - I agree, it IS controversial. - Yeah, yeah. So I want to find out, 188 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,040 what about you? What have you done from a business perspective? 189 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,200 Cos that would justify why. 190 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,480 Have you done something from a business perspective before 191 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,880 - and made millions from a seed of an idea? - No. 192 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,600 So where do you get the valuation, 193 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,960 and what's the reason and rationale for the valuation? 194 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,720 Cos it's quite punchy. 195 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,200 I think...so part of it is that what I'm looking for the 150 for 196 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,240 is really to get to 100,000 users, 197 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,040 and then assuming that 1% of our user base 198 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,520 book a therapy session once a month, 199 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,880 that's £25 for every therapy session that gets booked. 200 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,600 So that gives you 25K a month in revenue from that. 201 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,160 We then get between £3 and £12 per date. 202 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,400 And if you assume that 10% of our user base goes on one date, 203 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,680 you make another, like, 50 grand from just commission from that. 204 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,400 So, for me, it's like, yes, the valuation is high, 205 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,760 but I think, for me, there's a huge growth opportunity here, 206 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,560 and it's about looking at the future growth of the business. 207 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,040 - Z, I've never used a dating app. - SHE LAUGHS 208 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,000 And the numbers you're talking about commissions are, 209 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,560 in relation to where you're going, 210 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:13,440 it's very small. 211 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:19,320 Get a percentage of a date, get a percentage of therapy. 212 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,680 That's not going to make... 213 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:26,360 Those bits are not going to make the next unicorn. 214 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,360 So for that reason I'm going to let you carry on 215 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,360 with the other Dragons, I'm out. 216 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,680 Well, I really appreciate your time. Thanks, Touker. 217 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:39,120 - Z, hi. - Hi. 218 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,680 This is a world to me that... I just don't understand tech. 219 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,480 They talk about building an app at work, and I go, "Oh!" 220 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,400 It blows my mind. 221 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,960 So for that reason, I AM out, but I wish you the best of luck. 222 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,840 I appreciate it. 223 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,800 And, Z, I think this is a market 224 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,520 that's clearly very overcrowded. 225 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,480 It's not something that I would want to invest in. 226 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,440 So I'm going to say that I'm out, 227 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,920 but it's not a reflection of you 228 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,880 as an individual for the way you've presented. 229 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,880 - Thank you. - I absolutely echo that - 230 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,160 you've presented really, really well, 231 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,800 and I feel like anything that you came up with, 232 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,480 you will find a way to make it successful. 233 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,520 - I have a bit of a worry for you. - Go for it. 234 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,400 My worry is you are working in a space 235 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,800 where a lot of your competitors have to win, 236 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,360 so if you do find that magic combination 237 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,920 that says, "Ah, that's where we earn our money," 238 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,560 your competitors are in a situation where they can just say, 239 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:43,400 "Oh, that's working. OK, let's do it." 240 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,880 That is a big risk for you. 241 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,080 So I'm really sorry, but I won't be investing, I'm out. 242 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,360 Z, this is... 243 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,240 I think this is a really perfect business for me 244 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,800 because I'm particularly interested in community, loneliness, 245 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,200 and how technology can solve that at scale. 246 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,120 Putting, like, a 150 grand bet on this, at this point... 247 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,040 ..is just, like, too high of a bet to make. 248 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,080 Can I convince you of one data point? 249 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:23,920 - What's that? - Do you know Tim Ferriss? 250 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,040 - Yeah. - So Tim Ferriss went on the Modern Wisdom podcast last year, 251 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,200 and he said, "Can someone just build a dating app 252 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,080 "where the sole purpose is a ten-minute voice or video call?" 253 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,280 We did five. That's just our thought process. 254 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,160 But he is one of the best tech investors in Silicon Valley. 255 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,520 I think, even if you don't want to invest today, 256 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,440 and I can completely understand why, 257 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,560 what I would love is, if you do know Tim Ferriss, 258 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:49,760 an introduction to him and Simon Sinek, 259 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,880 because Simon Sinek is actually one of my biggest inspirations for this, 260 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,520 cos he always talks about the eight-minute call. 261 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,680 Hmm. 262 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,760 Just give me a minute. 263 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:14,840 It's a big problem. 264 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:17,600 I understand the problem. 265 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,080 Erm, I am going to make you an offer. 266 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,560 However... 267 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,560 ..if I'm investing £150,000 in a business at this stage, 268 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:36,360 which I consider to be, with all due respect, an idea... 269 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:37,560 HE SIGHS 270 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,880 ..I consider myself basically a partner in the business. 271 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:48,240 OK, so you asked for 150,000 for 5% of your business. 272 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:56,280 I will make you an offer to give you all of the money for... 273 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,800 ..hmm... 274 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,480 ..35% of the business. 275 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,120 HE WHISTLES 276 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,680 - Vampire, as you would call me. - I call everybody... 277 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,600 There's just no other... I just can't see another way. 278 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:18,000 - OK. - Wow, somebody just turned in their grave in the box. 279 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,000 Erm, would you go down to 20%? 280 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,520 No, I wouldn't. 281 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,480 30? 282 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:36,920 - 32-and-a-half and we've got a deal. - HE LAUGHS 283 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,960 - Come on, Steven, 30. - TOUKER: Be a gentleman, Steven! 284 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,200 Come on! Come on, Steven! 285 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,080 - Come on. - Go on! - I know, but it's... 286 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,880 Even the Dragons want you to do this. Come on. 287 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,800 - OK, fine, I'll do it. - Whoo! 288 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,320 - LAUGHS: - OK! 289 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,000 - Thank you. - Thank you so much. 290 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,120 After a tense back and forth, Zaahirah seals the deal. 291 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,520 I'll see you soon. 292 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:03,760 SHE LAUGHS 293 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,000 And with Steven Bartlett now on board, 294 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,440 her dating app just found its perfect match. 295 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,320 It is one of the greatest opportunities 296 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,880 I've ever had in my life. 297 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:24,000 I think it is utterly incredible that the Dragon I want wanted me. 298 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,440 I'm James Martin and I'm from Harrogate in North Yorkshire. 299 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,800 We wanted to create something where people could enjoy 300 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,840 the great outdoors in a bit of luxury. 301 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,400 - PETER: - It's called Glawning. - DEBORAH: - Which means? 302 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,640 Glawning is a lawn, isn't it? 303 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,120 I feel like it's glamping, but you buy the tent. 304 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,600 Well, they're really readily available. 305 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,640 We've got one of those. To be fair, it doesn't have the awning. 306 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,880 The what? 307 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,160 So the awning is the bit between the tent and the car. 308 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,040 - So that's an awning? - Yeah, but it goes with Glawning. 309 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,120 It was completely lost on you, wasn't it, Steven, 310 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,720 - when Peter said Glawning. - 100% lost on me. 311 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,240 - JAMES: - I'm passionate about the business. 312 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,200 And I've started to invent some new products. 313 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,680 So this, I think, is a real exciting time 314 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,920 and a great time for Dragons to come on board. 315 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,760 Hi, Dragons. My name is James 316 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,760 and I'm here today seeking an investment of £60,000 317 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,920 in return for a 10% share of my business, Glawning. 318 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,320 We aim to redefine what it means to go camping. 319 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,840 It all started when I was on a camper van holiday with my wife. 320 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,760 We had the freedom of the open road, 321 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,080 and we had the world's most miserable awning 322 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,120 attached to the side of our camper van. 323 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,240 It was boiling hot when the sun came out, 324 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,640 it was freezing cold the rest of the time, 325 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,320 and it flapped around like a tent possessed. 326 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,520 Worst of all, it was really, really boring. 327 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,640 So we decided, "We're going to do something about it." 328 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,920 And we created the Glawning, which is a glamorous canvas awning 329 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,920 that can be attached to the side of a camper van, 330 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,800 caravan, motorhome or large vehicle. 331 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,240 It can also be used as a stand-alone tent 332 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,480 by zipping off the connecting canopy. 333 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,000 Since we launched, 334 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:30,440 we have achieved a net revenue after VAT of just over £4.3 million. 335 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,600 And we also have our own festival, 336 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,440 which attracts around 2,000 people every year. 337 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:36,800 But this is just the beginning. 338 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,480 We now want to build a go-to camping lifestyle brand. 339 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,720 We have some fantastic new products in the pipeline, 340 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,840 and we believe that these are going to open up massive new markets, 341 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,000 and we'd love for you guys to be on that journey with us. 342 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,240 So, Dragons, 343 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,960 I invite you now to join us on the Glawning revolution. 344 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,520 A glammed-up camping classic which attaches canvas 345 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,480 to camper van or caravan is the brainchild of James Martin. 346 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,000 Please feel free to come and take a look at the product. 347 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:12,240 - Oh, wow. - After you. - Thank you. 348 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,920 - This is nice. - Oh, it's quite big. 349 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,080 The entrepreneur is seeking £60,000 350 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,160 in exchange for a 10% share in his business. 351 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,520 - So this is a bell tent? - Yes. - So, really, the unique bit... 352 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,720 - Is the attachment. - ..is the attachment. It's the awning, 353 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,640 isn't it? Because normally that would be closed off. 354 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:31,880 Yes. Yeah. 355 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,400 First to take a closer look at what's on offer 356 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,960 is seasoned camper Jenna Meek. 357 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,080 - Hi, James. - Hi. - So I love caravanning. 358 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,400 As a kid, I used to always caravan with my parents. 359 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,480 And each time we got away, I'd be like, 360 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:52,640 "Are you putting the awning up?" 361 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,080 Because then there would be arguments 362 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,240 because it took so long to put this awning up. 363 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,440 So how difficult is this one to put up? 364 00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:59,920 How long does it take? 365 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,440 That's one of the reasons we chose a bell tent 366 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,800 as the kind of base tent, because they're very easy to put up, 367 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,560 and it's usually about eight and half minutes 368 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,960 - on my own to go from start to finish. - OK. 369 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,480 And you mentioned this 4.3 million. 370 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,720 So what is the current business architecture right now? 371 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,840 Are you selling these at festivals 372 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,080 or have you got another company that is...? 373 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,520 You mentioned a festival. 374 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,640 What have you sold to make 4.3 million? 375 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,280 Yes. So the 4.3 million 376 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,400 is solely to do with the Glawning business. 377 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:36,320 So 75% of sales come online, and about 25% at festivals. 378 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,840 We do have a festival. We run that as a separate company. 379 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,000 So the first year we did that was 2017 and we had about 150 people. 380 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,440 And then it's just grown year on year, 381 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,680 and there's now about 2,000 people coming along to that. 382 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,440 So that has a separate turnover with its own profit. 383 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,360 James, do you buy these individually or separately? 384 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,560 You buy them separately. So you buy the base tent 385 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,880 and then you buy your connecting canopy. 386 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,280 And that varies in size. 387 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,120 So we do a standard-height one, which will fit on 388 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,160 the likes of the transporter, which is here. 389 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,760 And then we do a high-top version, which will go on caravans, 390 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,080 motorhomes and bigger vehicles. 391 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,240 And we now do an inflatable one, which we've just launched 392 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,000 but we haven't got them in stock yet, 393 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,880 but we've kind of sold half of them already. 394 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,880 OK. So when did you start this? 395 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,560 I came up with the product in 2013. 396 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,360 At the time, I was actually running a start-up law firm, 397 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,320 - so my focus kind of wasn't on this. - OK. 398 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,640 So are these sort of like side hustles 399 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,000 for you and you're a lawyer by day? 400 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,720 So that... At the start it was side hustle. 401 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,760 - Then it started to do pretty well. - Right. 402 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,960 - So you're now doing this full-time? - Yes. 403 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:47,520 - TOUKER: - James. - Yeah. 404 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,720 So I'm assuming, um, 405 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,960 - you're buying this in from China? - Yeah. 406 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,320 So there's no barriers to entry on this? 407 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,760 If I wanted to do this, I pick up the phone, 408 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,760 and within 12 weeks, I'd have it in my warehouse? 409 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,360 Yeah. Well, we do have design rights on this particular configuration. 410 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:09,720 Yeah, but your design right 411 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,280 might be you've got 24 inches higher... 412 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,680 - Something similar, I can get. - Mm-hm. Yeah. 413 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,160 I mean, there have been people who have tried to copy it. 414 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,480 I'm not going to copy it. 415 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,120 I'm just going to ring up my team in China 416 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,120 and I pick the ones I want. Easy as that. 417 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,480 - STEVEN: - James. - Yes. - On the 4.3 million 418 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,400 in revenue you've generated over the last... Is it ten, 419 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,720 roughly ten years? Just over ten years? 420 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,320 - Yeah. - What's the net profit been? 421 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,400 - The cumulative net profit? - About 150,000. 422 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,040 OK. Um, so... 423 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,080 Hmm. 424 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,280 So when I...when I look at the business, 425 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,800 it doesn't look very investible, 426 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,960 because if I were to invest £60,000, 427 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,040 say it was for 10% or in that region, 428 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,520 it would take some time based on the profits being generated 429 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,040 in the business to ever get a return. 430 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,880 So how does a return happen in this business 431 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,840 if the cumulative net profit over the last decade has been 150K? 432 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,440 So my plan is now to build 433 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,240 the business on innovation, primarily. 434 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,720 We have some great new products in the pipeline. 435 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,800 So we've got one that we've just recently released, 436 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,280 which is the inflatable version of the Glawning. 437 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,280 We've already sold half of those, 438 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,640 and we should sell the others fairly quickly. 439 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,920 I also have a... 440 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,800 ..have applied for a patent for a new design, 441 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,400 which I think is going to be a game-changer. 442 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,800 So there's future innovation coming, which I'm betting on? 443 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,520 - Yes. - Versus what I see here in the business in front of me. 444 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,840 I always... It's always a bit of an amber flag for me 445 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,240 when an entrepreneur says to not invest 446 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,440 in the thing in front of me, 447 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,120 but in something that is coming. 448 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,400 For me, I'm always like, "Ah... I want to invest in..." 449 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,040 - I can tell you about it. - Yeah. 450 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,480 As I say, the patent that we've just applied for, 451 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,160 um, is something that I think will take this to the next level. 452 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,800 - DEBORAH: - What is that patent? - So it's for a roof box, 453 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,760 which has an inflatable awning integrated inside of it. 454 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,520 You open the roof box, you plug into your 12 volt, 455 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,280 you press a button and the awning inflates out of the side of the van. 456 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:27,920 So it's taking the pain points of having 457 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,200 to get the awning out of its bag, connect the pump up, 458 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,080 pump it up, line it all up with the van, connect it. 459 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,960 All of that is kind of done. 460 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,160 And is that a patent or a design patent? 461 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,560 - That's a patent. - That's a patent. - These are just design rights. 462 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,120 - But that's a patent. - PETER: - See, James... 463 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,560 ..that's so much more exciting than this. 464 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,480 - Yes. - Yeah. - Yeah. 465 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,080 I wish you could have come in and at least demonstrated that. 466 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,280 - Yeah, well... - Even if it was in a prototype shape or form, 467 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,360 because that...that could be investable. 468 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:02,040 - Yeah. - But this is...this is just a tent. 469 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,080 - Mm-hm. - It's tough. 470 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,080 Where are you in your patent? 471 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,000 - We've applied for it. - And when? 472 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,520 Yesterday. 473 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,000 JAMES LAUGHS 474 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,120 - Right. OK. - Well, I wanted to get it in, have it applied for. 475 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:18,600 So you have no idea whether or not somebody else 476 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:19,760 is going to pop their head up 477 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,920 and said, "Actually did that about ten years ago." 478 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,440 No. 479 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,800 James, it's, um... 480 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,240 There's quite a lot of frustration here. 481 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,320 And it also feels a little bit disingenuous 482 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,160 because you only applied for a patent yesterday. 483 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,200 So it feels like, "I've got this inflatable idea. 484 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,480 "Let's quickly pivot. 485 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,200 "Let's get this invention because I know they like patents. 486 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,600 "I'm just going to have a go." That's how it feels. 487 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,240 It feels a bit disingenuous, the pitch, now... 488 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,880 - OK. - ..with what you've just said. 489 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,320 Why is it...? If this is something that you've been working on 490 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,120 and something you've been thinking about, 491 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:03,800 why did you apply yesterday for a patent? 492 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,640 Well, I did...I did bring it forward to yesterday 493 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,760 so I'd have the pattern applied for. 494 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,800 But I wonder whether your pitch could have been much better, James. 495 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,680 It could have been, you know, "I've spent the last eight years 496 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,400 "of my life creating the perfect awning, 497 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,080 "and I've given up being a lawyer to focus on this. 498 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,320 "But I've got a seed of an incredible idea 499 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,440 "that I think is going to make millions - 500 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:31,080 "and it's called the inflatable roof box awning. 501 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,320 - "I've now got a patent, Dragons." - Yeah. 502 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,000 And all of a sudden I've got a different... 503 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,120 I've got a different pitch. 504 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,080 - Yeah. - I genuinely... I think we'd be fighting over who invested. 505 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,720 - Sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out. - OK. 506 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,200 But I...I encourage you, if you do get the patent, 507 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,400 please come straight to me and I'll deal with you directly. 508 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,880 Thank you, Peter. 509 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,680 - STEVEN: - James, I always sit here trying to figure out 510 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,120 whether the entrepreneur is selling me 511 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,640 a measurable past or a hypothetical future. 512 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,320 - Yeah. - So I'm trying to piece together, 513 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:06,720 from what you're saying, 514 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,480 what I would actually be investing in, 515 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,440 because it's not in the Den today. 516 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,600 I'm a big fan of the inflatable idea. 517 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,320 If I tried to put up a tent like this, 518 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,440 it would end up looking like a sleeping bag. 519 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,280 But for me, as an investment proposition, 520 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,680 it's not for me. So I'm going to say that I'm out. 521 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,280 OK. Thank you, Steven. 522 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,480 James, um, I think it's quite cool. 523 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,080 I think it's... I think it's actually quite... 524 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,160 It's one of those innovations 525 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,200 you think, "Why didn't somebody do it before?" 526 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,360 It feels so obvious. 527 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,160 - Yeah, it's very simple. - Very simple. Absolutely. 528 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,480 Had you been further down the route of the patent, 529 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,160 I might well have been more inclined to invest, to be honest, 530 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,280 but right now I haven't got a clue. 531 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,040 I haven't got a clue whether or not tomorrow 27 people go, 532 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,000 "Yeah, no, I did that ten years ago." 533 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,880 And neither have you. 534 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,040 So I'm afraid I won't be investing. 535 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,320 And I'm out. But I really do wish you all the best, I really do. 536 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,800 Thank you. 537 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,400 - James, um... - Hi, Touker. 538 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,040 It's a shame, because... 539 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:19,520 ..innovation came quite late in the pitch. 540 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,240 So, today, unfortunately, it's not investable. 541 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,280 But I wish you all the best, but I'm out. 542 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,040 - JENNA: - James, hi. 543 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,320 So I really wish I could have helped you do your pitch 544 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,840 because you came in and you said, 545 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,440 "I've got this tent and I've got this festival 546 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,520 - "but the festival is a different business." - Mm-hm. 547 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:41,920 Where actually, if you'd come in and been 548 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,200 like, "My vision is to own this... this world," 549 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,240 and you've got this community of 2,000 people 550 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,680 at your fingertips, at a festival, in real life, 551 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,560 I'm like, "Oh, my God, there's something there." 552 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,960 And you're not seeing the two together, 553 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,440 on how that is the start of what could be something huge, 554 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,160 because you cannot replicate community. 555 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,840 I think for me it's about going away and understanding 556 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,040 with this community that you've already got, 557 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,480 start there, ask them questions. 558 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,320 "Hey, how can we develop this? How can we make this one better? 559 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,680 "Who's interested in the inflatable?" 560 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,280 And try and understand how can you be that camper van business 561 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,920 of solution, and make it easier for the customers 562 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,160 that want this life that you're trying to sell. 563 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,840 Because I want it. I've been looking at camper vans. 564 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,720 Then you will just fly because I think this is really cool 565 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,480 and I would want my camper van to look like this when I do get one. 566 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,800 But it's not an investment for me, so I am out. 567 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,960 - OK. - Best of luck. - Thank you. Thank you very much. 568 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,200 - Thank you, Dragons. - Good luck. - Appreciate it. 569 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,960 - Good luck. - Cheers. 570 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,960 That's it for James. The Dragons admired his creativity, 571 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,280 but felt the focus had been on the wrong product. 572 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,440 And he leaves the Den with nothing. 573 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:57,960 Yes, that was intense. 574 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,280 Peter gave a great alternative pitch, 575 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,760 which, in hindsight, would be lovely to have done, 576 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,880 but it's hard to know what they're going to focus on 577 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,360 and what they're going to build on. 578 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,520 So...hey-ho. 579 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,120 Onwards and upwards. 580 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,680 - Do you want some water? - Yeah, let's do this. 581 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,320 - I'm Connor. - I'm Harry. 582 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,640 And we're two of the founders of Club Cultured. 583 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,000 - Cheers. - Cheers, mate. 584 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,880 And we make delicious, premium, high-quality ferments and pickles. 585 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,800 We're in the Den. We're going to get the deal we want. 586 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,840 The missus don't like the smell of kimchi on my clothes all the time. 587 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,120 But it's all right. 588 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,080 - We're dedicated. - We're here. We're doing the work. 589 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,800 Kimchi. 590 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,320 - Oh. Fermented foods. - Fermented foods. Yeah. 591 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,080 - Very good for the gut microbiome. - Very good. 592 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,920 - You ready, bro? - Come on, mate. 593 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,600 - Love you. - Love you, too. 594 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,400 We've done our research on the Dragons, 595 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,640 and we know they're into gut health. We know they're big foodies 596 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,120 and have made a series of food investments before. 597 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,440 Here we go. 598 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,680 This is what we've been waiting for. 599 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,920 So we're just super excited to get into the Den 600 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,360 to share our products and our business with them. 601 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,760 - You all right, Dragons? - How's it going, Dragons? 602 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,720 - Hello. - What if we told you there's a fermented food brand 603 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,920 that produces proteins, sides and sauces? 604 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,120 Well, we're the founders of that brand, Club Cultured. 605 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,040 I'm Harry, that's Connor, and our journey began 606 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,200 in our business partner James's back garden, 607 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,960 where we turned an old fridge into a DIY fermenter 608 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,760 and made our first batch of tempeh. 609 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,040 Since then, we have built a delicious range 610 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,800 of premium plant-based ferments and pickles 611 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,120 crafted by a chef who's trained in Michelin-star kitchens, 612 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,720 that deliver bold flavours and known gut health benefits. 613 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,800 We believe food that does good should taste amazing, too. 614 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,000 That's why our naturally fermented and pickled products, 615 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,960 such as our umami-rich kimchi to tangy krauts and punchy sauces, 616 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,880 are designed to slot effortlessly into your daily meals, 617 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,600 making gut health easy and enjoyable. 618 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,440 We've produced and sold over 200,000 kilos, 619 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,880 generated 1.4 million in sales and supplied 620 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,440 some of the UK's biggest food brands. 621 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,800 After maxing out our second site, 622 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,040 we moved into our brand-new, 4,500 square foot 623 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,480 fermentation facility in Norfolk. 624 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,880 We make everything in-house, giving us total control 625 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,560 over quality, flavour and consistency. 626 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,240 We're now forecasting to hit 4.5 million in sales in 2028, 627 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,600 with a deep pipeline spanning across manufacturing, 628 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,560 food service and retail. 629 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,280 We're here today to ask for a £50,000 investment 630 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,880 in exchange for 3.5% equity into our brand. 631 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,240 So Connor's prepared some delicious samples for you guys. 632 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,800 We have some tempeh sushi rolls and some kimchi pancakes, 633 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,120 and there's some little samples 634 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,440 - of the pickles and ferments for you to try as well. - Great. 635 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,280 A range of gut-friendly pickles and ferments, 636 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,720 including tempeh, a traditional Indonesian staple 637 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,480 made from soybeans, 638 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,160 is the proposition from Harry Watmough and Connor Jordan. 639 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,120 I'm not sure what everyone's spice tolerance is, 640 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,960 but the red one obviously has some chilli in it, 641 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,000 so don't go eating the whole pot in one go. 642 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,920 The pair are seeking £50,000 643 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,880 in exchange for a 3.5% share in their company. 644 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,480 - That smell. - Yeah. - That is amazing. - STEVEN: - Thank you. 645 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,320 It was... I bought it in Selfridges. 646 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,680 LAUGHTER 647 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,880 - I'll show you the bottle if you want. - Eau de kimchi. 648 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,000 - LAUGHING: - Yeah, eau de kimchi. 649 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,760 Their products may smell and taste the part. 650 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,400 It's really good. 651 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,680 But will their enterprise prove just as appetising? 652 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,000 - Connor, Harry. - Hello, Deborah. 653 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,720 That tempeh is absolutely delicious. 654 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,320 - So you probably know I'm plant based. - Yeah. 655 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,560 This looks like the contents of my fridge. 656 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,040 That's what we like to hear! 657 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,360 But that tempeh is, I think, the best I've ever, ever tasted. 658 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,040 - Wow. - Thank you. - Thank you. - But I don't understand. 659 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,440 Do you sell the tempeh, or have you just giving that to me? 660 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,960 We supply... The ones in the sleeves there is tempeh. 661 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,440 So we actually... When we first discovered tempeh, 662 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,960 we taught ourselves how to make it, 663 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,600 and after a while, we didn't know what we were doing - 664 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,280 we was losing batches, we was working night shifts, 665 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,080 taking it home. Nothing was working. 666 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,360 So it was like, "We need to find the tempeh Yoda." 667 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,840 So we went to Indonesia for a week's training, 668 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,160 learned how to make it properly, 669 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,200 and we pride ourselves on making Indonesian-grade tempeh. 670 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,960 Really doing homage to the quality of that product. 671 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,000 And if you look at the reviews on our website, 672 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,840 it's consistently the same comments. 673 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,680 Like, people say, "It's the best tempeh I've ever had." 674 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,200 Connor, Harry. Um, really interesting business. 675 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,160 - I'm a big gut microbiome fan. - Yes. 676 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,600 What are your backgrounds 677 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,400 and what brought you to the gut microbiome world? 678 00:33:58,400 --> 00:33:59,560 I'll let you go first. 679 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,120 So we've known each other since we were five years old. 680 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,880 But my background is I didn't do particularly great at school, 681 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,920 but my love was cooking. 682 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,480 So I went to college 683 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,960 and done three years professional chef's diploma. 684 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,800 And then I got work experience in the Ritz Hotel in London. 685 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,240 And I ended up going there two weeks after I left college at 18. 686 00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:22,400 - I stayed there for six years. - And then my background... 687 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,000 So, um, I also left school at 16, got a job at a stockbrokers, 688 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,320 worked there for six years - and our other business partner, James, 689 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:29,960 we're best friends from Year Seven at school. 690 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,080 We worked with each other from 19 to 22 on the same desk. 691 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,600 We realised that life wasn't for us. We went travelling for 18 months 692 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,560 where we sort of first discovered kimchi, 693 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,640 tempeh and we just fell in love with it. 694 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,400 And then when we came back to England, we could just see 695 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,080 that everything was really processed and we felt like, 696 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,200 you know, there's a huge opportunity for fermented foods. 697 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,680 - And we went for it. - So if I'm looking at this business 698 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,800 from a financial perspective, 699 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,160 what year does it really begin for you? 700 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,760 2020 was the first year we did manufacturing. 701 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,840 - OK. So let's go from 2020. - Yeah. - Give me the revenue and net. - Yeah. 702 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,440 - So it was 90K revenue, a loss of 44K. - 44? - Yeah. 703 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,200 The following year was 275K, a loss of 73. 704 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:15,000 The following year after that was 342K and a loss of 123. 705 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,400 And the year after that was 359K and a loss of 104K. 706 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,000 And then last year it was 250K and a loss of 83. 707 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,440 You've lost... 708 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,880 ..probably almost £400,000 since the business's inception. 709 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,800 - Yeah. - Where has that money come from? - So we've had investors. 710 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,120 So we've raised just under half a million since we started. 711 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,480 And for kitting out our last space, we took out a loan ourselves 712 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,040 to fund that kit-out for our move to Norfolk. 713 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,160 So you've raised 500K from investors? 714 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,560 - Yep. - And how much of the business do you guys still own? 715 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,520 - 56%. - 56%. Between the three of you? - Yeah. 716 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,680 OK. And you've taken a loan of what? 717 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,320 So that last loan, it was 225K, 718 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,360 and the outstanding amount we have left is 174,000. 719 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,680 And how much cash have you got in the bank? 720 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,440 - About 85K. - OK. 721 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,560 And what are you forecasting for this year? 722 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:08,000 This year, 450,000 and a net profit of 22.5. 723 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,560 And how are you tracking so far for this year? 724 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,600 We've done about 75K so far this year, 725 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,080 but we actually had a new big customer come visit us two days ago, 726 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,080 and we have some big contracts lined up for them. 727 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,520 - PETER: - So, for me, 728 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,440 it looks like the business is going down rather than up. 729 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,680 So what's the goal? What are you trying to do? 730 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,280 So for us, it's being the leader in the industry 731 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,600 in UK manufacturing for these products. 732 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,040 But you need to do about 100 X compared to 733 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,480 - where you are, don't you, to be able to do that? - Yeah. 734 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,720 But we're confident we can build our brand position 735 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:43,000 - as well as on the food service side. - But my big thing here 736 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,720 is that if you want to try and get half a million in sales... 737 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:47,800 - Yeah. - ..you haven't got the cash. 738 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,080 Well, we're confident with this contract coming in, 739 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,000 that will enable us to grow and bring more... 740 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,200 But how will you do that for...? How are you going to pay for it? 741 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,920 Well, we're confident with what we've got at the moment. 742 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,080 And we have other investors 743 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,000 who have said before, when it gets to a stage... 744 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,520 No, that's the point, though. 745 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,320 So what does that mean? So I invest today 50K, 3.5%. 746 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,800 Other investors put more money in. 747 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,240 I'm going to go down, aren't I? I'm going to dilute. 748 00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:16,200 So how much money are you looking to raise, in essence, 749 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:17,560 over the next 12 months? 750 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,200 Well, this would be the only money we raise over the next 12 months. 751 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,120 - That's not enough. - I think it will be enough. 752 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,760 It's not enough. It definitely isn't enough. 753 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,480 Because you've raised 500 - you've nearly spent all of that. 754 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,000 You're out of cash. 755 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,600 You've only got cash in your business 756 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,600 because you've got £170,000 of a loan. 757 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,600 You have no cash. You're currently insolvent. 758 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,680 Well... At today, our current cash position is £85,000. 759 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,240 Yeah, I know, but you owe 174. 760 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:45,880 - You can't afford to pay the loan back. - Yeah. 761 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,080 So I'm putting in £50,000 into a business 762 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,520 that already hasn't got enough cash to pay back its debts. 763 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,880 It's not a good...good investment, guys. 764 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,680 So I'm going to have to say, sadly, that I'm out. 765 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,560 But I wish you every bit of luck. 766 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,840 And your product does taste beautiful. 767 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,960 - Stunning. - Thank you, Peter. - Great chef. 768 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,360 Thank you very much. 769 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,880 - DEBORAH: - Can I ask when you're going to be making £400,000 profit? 770 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,480 - In a single year? - No - as a cumulative. 771 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,680 Uh, so by 2026, 772 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,640 we're forecasting one million and a net profit of 100, 773 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,840 and then the following year, 2.5 million and a net of 375. 774 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,720 - So between those next two and a bit years. - OK. 775 00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:33,040 So in two years you'll have made up your losses? 776 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,280 - Yeah. - OK. Um... 777 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,360 I really, really want to invest in this. 778 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,400 Actually, I'm going to be quiet. 779 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:46,840 Oh! 780 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,440 - JENNA: - Hi. I'll just tell you where I am, because I think... 781 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,240 ..I think you guys are great, 782 00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:57,080 and you've done everything to make a beautiful, beautiful product. 783 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,040 But you've got a lot of experts in here 784 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,440 that are probably very clued up on this stuff. 785 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,040 I am probably your more mass market customer here, 786 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,760 because I go into Holland & Barrett, and I don't know what I go in for, 787 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,560 and then I walk out with 20 prebiotics. 788 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,000 I think as an investor, to actually help you, 789 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,280 I wouldn't really be able to do much. 790 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,720 So for that reason I am out. But I wish you all the best. 791 00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:19,200 - Thank you. - Thank you, Jenna. 792 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:21,960 - TOUKER: - Harry and Connor... 793 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,880 ..I love the fact that you are very knowledgeable. 794 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,160 But today, you've not convinced me 795 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,560 to say this is an investable opportunity at 3.5%. 796 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,000 For that reason, guys, I'm not going to invest 797 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,160 - and I'm out. - Thank you, Touker. - Thank you for your comments. 798 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,560 - STEVEN: - I'm also going to tell you where I am. 799 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,760 My fridge is full of this stuff. 800 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,960 And, um, I had a little bit of a thought on the brand Club Cultured 801 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,920 because I realised that all of the items that I have, 802 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,200 the kimchi that I have in my fridge, 803 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,280 looks authentic to its native country. 804 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,480 And I think this has been branded as if it's a mass market product. 805 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,000 But kimchi isn't quite there yet. 806 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,760 So there's something about looking...it looking authentic 807 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,640 to its native country that has made it more compelling, 808 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,800 that's made it look real versus it looking like a...rave. 809 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,040 And I see your business 810 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,360 that's...that has historically lost money every single year 811 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,040 and is in decline from a revenue perspective. 812 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,840 So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best. 813 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,080 - Cheers, Steven. - Thank you for your feedback. 814 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,480 Um, I actually completely disagree with Steven. 815 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:40,960 Ouch. 816 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,680 Oddly, there are plenty of Korean looking kimchis around, 817 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,720 but the one that really has broken through 818 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,840 isn't a Korean looking kimchi. 819 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,320 - Yeah. - It looks like a pickled product. 820 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,160 - Yeah. - You know, so... So it's sort of recognisable. 821 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,240 And funnily enough, I think it's going to be more powerful 822 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:02,440 to move it out of this, the sort of... 823 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,000 The shelf that is those things that other countries eat 824 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,160 - and move them onto mainstream. - Yeah. 825 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,560 So it clearly looks like something 826 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,400 that everybody should have in their fridge. 827 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,240 I shouldn't be worrying, I shouldn't be thinking about 828 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,920 whether or not it's good for my gut or not. 829 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,440 I'm not buying it as a medicine - 830 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,440 I'm buying it because it tastes great and I want it in my fridge. 831 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:22,960 Um... 832 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,640 The thing is... 833 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,000 I do love your story, and I love... 834 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,200 I love where this has come from and I think that will come through 835 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,280 to the consumer and that's, you know, that's really important. 836 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,200 I think... 837 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,040 I think there's a problem, though. 838 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,120 And the problem is you only own 56% between the three of you. 839 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,640 Who's your single biggest other shareholder? 840 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,960 So, two guys who came on previously. 841 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,000 And what, so they own between them? 842 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,480 - 7%. - How much? - 7% each. - 7% each. 843 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,360 No, I ca-... Uh. 844 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,480 I don't like... 845 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,000 I don't like the whole pattern. 846 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,440 And I see this pattern of what's going ahead, 847 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,720 and this is how much cash you're going to need 848 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:30,160 versus how much equity you have already given away. 849 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,720 - Yeah. - You are going to be diluted. 850 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,960 I mean, I can do things that stops me being diluted, 851 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,320 but that isn't fair either. 852 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,840 That's not the type of... That's not what I want to do. 853 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,480 - So, no... - We always knew that we were... - No, stop talking. 854 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,200 - I know what you're doing here. - ..going to be diluted. 855 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,400 You're just keeping me talking so that I don't go out. 856 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:46,840 I know what you're doing. 857 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,120 I think it's good to keep you talking! 858 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,400 - It is, actually, I'll give you that. - The smaller size... 859 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,560 Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, you're great. 860 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,840 All I can do is tell you that is a really, really good product. 861 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,200 - Thank you. - Thank you. 862 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,200 And I will be a customer, but I won't be an investor. 863 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,200 - No worries. - So, I'm out. 864 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:03,960 - Thank you very much. - Thank you very much. 865 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,800 - Good luck, guys. - Cheers. - Good luck. 866 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,920 Harry and Connor must leave the Den empty-handed. 867 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,160 She was tempted by their tempeh, 868 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,360 but, ultimately, Deborah Meaden couldn't be persuaded 869 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,200 to take a punt on the pickle loving pair. 870 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,040 It is what it is. 871 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,040 HE MUMBLES 872 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,520 - Still doing it. - Still doing it. 873 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,480 We'll show 'em. 874 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,640 Obviously we didn't get the deal like we hoped, 875 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,360 but lots of great feedback. 876 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,080 What's next for us is proving the Dragons wrong 877 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,240 and making them regret their decision. 878 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,480 My name's Sam Beaney and my business is Kibu. 879 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,920 While Kibu's a product that people have seen before, 880 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,520 it's quite unique in how we're doing things. 881 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,360 - Oh, this looks fun. - Mm. 882 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,600 Headphones for kids, but I feel like there's something 883 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,600 more unique to it than that. 884 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,400 - Is it interchangeable? - Yeah. 885 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,560 - Build your own headphones. - Oh, I like that. 886 00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:21,360 It's so great when kids get the product and they get to try it, 887 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,400 and their feedback is just... 888 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:24,920 It really motivates you. 889 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,280 It'd be amazing to pitch in front of the Dragons 890 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,120 and show them what Kibu's all about. 891 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,800 Hi, Dragons. My name is Sam Beaney, the founder of Kibu. 892 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,480 The children's headphones you build, repair, recycle. 893 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,800 And today, I'm seeking £65,000 894 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,720 in exchange for 10% equity in my business. 895 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:59,360 Every year in the UK, over 18 million pairs of headphones 896 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,400 and earbuds are thrown away. 897 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,160 Most aren't easily fixed, especially not by kids. 898 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,840 Yet kids are curious, capable and love to build. 899 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,520 So why do we keep designing tech that when it breaks, 900 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:12,960 it gets binned? 901 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,360 At Kibu, we're doing things differently. 902 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,680 The Kibu headphones come as a simple kit 903 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,640 that children or fun-loving adults can build themselves. 904 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,640 No screws, no glue, no fiddly wires, 905 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,040 just simple parts... 906 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,720 ..that snap together. 907 00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:29,440 Like that. 908 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,000 And if a part breaks... 909 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,240 ..you only need to replace that part, helping to reduce waste. 910 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:41,800 Each pair is 3D printed in Hackney, London, in less than 30 minutes, 911 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,200 with our proprietary 3D printing code that doesn't compromise 912 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,640 on speed or quality. 913 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,320 The main material used is a recycled bioplastic 914 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,200 that comes from plants like corn, 915 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,320 and when the headphones reach the end of their life, 916 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,200 the parts can be returned and recycled into new products. 917 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,080 With your investment and experience, we can scale faster, 918 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,720 develop new products, and shape a generation of builders, 919 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:07,880 not just consumers. 920 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,480 Thank you. 921 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,320 A kit for kids to make their own headphones 922 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,000 is the offering from Sam Beaney. 923 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,880 Lovely. Like my chosen colour. Thank you. 924 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,480 - It's got to be green. - It's got to be green. 925 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:27,520 He's seeking £65,000 for a 10% share in his business. 926 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,840 Will Sam's sonic start-up hit the right note with the Dragons? 927 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:34,560 Sam, super interesting. 928 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,720 So what really is the crux of this business? 929 00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:39,280 Are they aspiring to be really good headphones, 930 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,320 or are they aspiring to be something that teaches kids 931 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,720 how to build things and to have a bit of fun? 932 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:47,920 Yeah, I mean, we obviously want them to be great headphones, 933 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,520 but our main goal is not to compete with the big players 934 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,840 when it comes to sound or things like that. 935 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,720 Ultimately, we're trying to deliver an experience 936 00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:57,120 to children and families. 937 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,800 You know, it's being able to build your headphones yourselves, 938 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,760 and we hope that then when they break, 939 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,280 kids are then more likely to want to repair it 940 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,480 and see the headphones go through their life. 941 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,320 And is it just you involved in the business at the moment 942 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,080 or have you got a team? 943 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,520 Yeah, so it's mainly me, but there's... 944 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,320 I have two main partners who are helping me, 945 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,600 so - businesses, rather, that are helping me. 946 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,000 So, one is a 3D printing manufacturing company 947 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,400 that I used to work for, 948 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,320 and another is an award-winning design agency. 949 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,920 And what are the total sales, and when did you begin? 950 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,320 So, we did our kick-starter in April last year, 951 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:43,800 and our total sales are about £25,000 to date. 952 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,640 Yeah, and sold over 450 pairs. 953 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,520 Sam, hi. So, how much do they sell for? 954 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,800 So we sell them for £39. 955 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,120 OK, and what do they cost you to make? 956 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,160 They cost us £10.40. 957 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,280 OK. And at the moment, are you only on a... 958 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,480 ..on the crowd-fund platform? 959 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,760 Are you already selling into retail or direct to the consumer? 960 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,160 Yes, so we're selling now. 961 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,960 We're selling direct to consumers through our website, 962 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,960 and we'd love to get into retail and really try and explore 963 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,840 other avenues as well. 964 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,000 So £40, that's expensive. 965 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,520 You're limiting your market in retail because of that price. 966 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,320 I can't see this in what I call mainstream toy shops, really. 967 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:34,680 OK. 968 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:39,440 But I think while the upfront price is slightly higher, 969 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,920 the value over the long term... 970 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,600 You know, we were speaking to parents 971 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,520 and they were having to replace their headphones, like, every year 972 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,440 - or even less than that. - Mm. 973 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,600 Yeah, it may cost you more upfront, 974 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,320 but if parts break, you know, 975 00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,840 there's this route here to fix it and make the headphones last longer. 976 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,160 Sam, hi. I love it. 977 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,000 Like, I really, really love it. 978 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,240 I love... There's so many things I really like. 979 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,000 I opened this up and I was like, "Oh, my God!" 980 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,240 My inner child is so excited to build that - 981 00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:12,720 because it is doing exactly what you're trying to do. 982 00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:15,200 It's helping kids get creative, 983 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,920 understand how to make inventions, 984 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,320 and, yeah, just really, really love it. 985 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,400 A few questions. If I went onto your social channel now, 986 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,560 what have you done so far on social? 987 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,120 Like if I'm looking at your Instagram or TikTok, 988 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:29,920 what am I seeing? 989 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,760 So you're seeing mainly reels and posts showing the headphones, 990 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,480 and then this sort of content that tends to be more popular, 991 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,520 where the product is used. 992 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:45,360 - So, uh, guess this song kind of, for example. - Yeah. 993 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,560 But we're trying to really get into that, you know, 994 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,920 the organic engine, I guess, that reels and TikTok and... 995 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,760 Has any of the content gone off? 996 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,640 Like, have you got a lot of momentum? 997 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,000 We've had posts that have, um... 998 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,480 - ..you know, done 50,000 kind of views. - That's good. 999 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:01,880 That sort of thing. 1000 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,360 But I think the challenge we have is the average number of times 1001 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,000 people are seeing that content needs to be six, seven times. 1002 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,600 They're seeing it once in this organic post, they think, 1003 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,960 "Oh, that's interesting", and we're not - 1004 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,600 because we don't have the capital yet - we can't, like, 1005 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,880 - show it to them again and again and try... - You can. 1006 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,600 So this is why I'm asking. You basically, you find... 1007 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,600 You've got a video with 50,000 views, 1008 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,960 - you've got a video of 100,000 views, that's amazing. - Yeah. 1009 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,560 You just got to keep creating more and more and more of that content. 1010 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,640 I built my own business to like 5 million 1011 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,280 basically off organic content. 1012 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,240 - Like, you've got to keep going with it. - Yeah, yeah. 1013 00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:35,040 Thank you. Yeah, that's great, advice like that. 1014 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,280 You know, that's what we really need. 1015 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,080 Sam. Hello. 1016 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,400 - Hello. - Um... 1017 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,440 When I started building computers when I was a teenager, 1018 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,440 I had no knowledge of it, but I loved it. 1019 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,480 - Yeah. - And I think this is something that kids would just love to do. 1020 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,040 So tell me about you. 1021 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,960 - You worked for this company. - Yeah. 1022 00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,680 Who are the company? 1023 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,720 It's this company called Batch.Works and they mass-produce 1024 00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:02,960 things using 3D printing. 1025 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,960 And you left them to start this business, or...? 1026 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,280 - Where are you now? - So it was really a collaboration. 1027 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,440 - So they are an equity holder... - Oh, OK. 1028 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:10,960 ..along with a design agency, 1029 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,240 - and we actually see that as a strength so... - How much do they own? 1030 00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:15,800 They own 39%. 1031 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,440 Oh, wow. 1032 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,040 - And you own? - 33%. 1033 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,560 Oh, that means there's somebody else in here. 1034 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,520 So, yeah, there's a design agency who own 20%. 1035 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,520 And who owns the other 8%? 1036 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,600 So we have a web developer who owns, like, 4%, 1037 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:40,320 and then there's 2.5% that's owned by a brand agency. 1038 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,600 And then I believe the rest is... 1039 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,560 ..just a pool kind of left. 1040 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,120 This is an unusual situation, 1041 00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,360 - because you're not the majority shareholder. - Yeah. 1042 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:57,960 And if you were to receive an offer in here today, 1043 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,160 - presumably you've agreed with your majority shareholder... - Yep. 1044 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,280 ..what your parameters of an offer are. 1045 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:05,600 - Is that right? - Yes. 1046 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,360 And would it be from a... 1047 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,160 Would everybody dilute or does it come from your shareholding? 1048 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,560 - Everyone's diluted equally. - Everyone would dilute. 1049 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,920 All right, I'm going to tell you where I am. There's something... 1050 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,240 There is something that worries me about it, Sam, and I... 1051 00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:29,760 And you're... I really like you. 1052 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,400 I think the design is really, really lovely. 1053 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,040 - There's something that just isn't hitting the mark for me. - Mm. 1054 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,200 And it's, you know, I don't like the structure of the business. 1055 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,320 - Yeah. - I really do like to be talking to a majority shareholder. 1056 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:44,880 - Yeah. - Um... 1057 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,680 Just because I like to get a feel of where they are in all of this, 1058 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,880 you know, and understand if you've got a decent order, 1059 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:53,400 how much priority that would get. 1060 00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,840 There's loads of questions I'd like to ask a majority shareholder, 1061 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,280 but they're not here today, so I'm afraid I won't be investing. 1062 00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,400 - I'm out. - Thank you, Deborah. 1063 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,240 Sam, I really... 1064 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,760 The minute I saw it and the minute you explained what it was, 1065 00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,760 I really fell in love with the idea of it. 1066 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,760 But on a personal level, maybe because I don't have kids... 1067 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,160 - Yeah. - Um... 1068 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,000 It hasn't personally resonated with me in the same way. 1069 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,920 So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I hope you're successful. 1070 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,640 Thank you. Appreciate it. 1071 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,880 - So I'll tell you where I am. - Yeah. 1072 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:31,760 You are credible, right? 1073 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,120 And the product's great. 1074 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,640 However, this needs a lot of money. 1075 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:43,560 - Yeah. - I think you need a lot more than 65 to get this out there. 1076 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:45,400 So for that reason, I'm out. 1077 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,080 Thank you, Touker. 1078 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,480 Um... 1079 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,800 I feel like I'm in the same place. 1080 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,960 Um... 1081 00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,920 ..because it's just very difficult to find a way to monetise it. 1082 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,360 Um... 1083 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:11,120 Have I missed something? Why you don't think it's monetisable, Peter? 1084 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,600 Have I missed the profit on the product or...? 1085 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,680 Yeah, the scale at the volume, at £40. 1086 00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:18,480 You think that's too expensive? 1087 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,200 It definitely is, yeah. I mean, these products to kids are 9.99. 1088 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,360 Yeah... But I think more parents are becoming... 1089 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,360 Are caring more and more about the products 1090 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:28,840 they give to their children. 1091 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,120 I get that, but that's a lot of cash to spend. 1092 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,360 Sam, I'll tell you where I'm at. 1093 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,400 So I've loved this from the start 1094 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:43,000 and I do think there is something here, 1095 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,240 because the thing is, with kids, it's cult. 1096 00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:48,440 It is word of mouth, and you get that right, 1097 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,680 it really, really works. 1098 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,440 What I'm brilliant at is building a brand that people want to buy into, 1099 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,440 regardless of what that product even is, 1100 00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,440 and that's what I feel like I can help with. 1101 00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,960 And I think if you're willing to work, 1102 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,720 like, really, really, really, really hard, 1103 00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:02,200 like, harder than you've ever worked 1104 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,480 to get this where it needs to be, this could be really huge. 1105 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,720 So I am going to make you an offer. 1106 00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:13,080 You asked for £65,000 for 10%. 1107 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,880 My offer is going to be all of the money... 1108 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,880 But I want 15% of the business. 1109 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,560 OK. Thank you very much. 1110 00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,280 Um... 1111 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,040 Yes, Sam... 1112 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,040 I think Jenna's given you a really, really good offer, 1113 00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:40,000 given the structure, at 15%. 1114 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,440 But that's going to be tough for me, 1115 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,000 because I think you're going to need a lot of work here 1116 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,120 and a lot of money to make this business a success. 1117 00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:50,600 Yeah. 1118 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,760 Obviously equity is important and it matters, 1119 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,600 but I think having a small part of a big thing is... 1120 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,720 ..is better than a big part of nothing. 1121 00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:03,360 Peter, what about we share? 1122 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,160 Would you consider that? 1123 00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:11,640 Yeah, I would consider that. 1124 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,400 I'll tell you what, I'm going to do two things. 1125 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,200 - I'm going to give you an offer of all of the money... - Mm. 1126 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,080 ..65,000... 1127 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,800 ..for 20% of the business. 1128 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,000 Or I would be willing to share it with Jenna 1129 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,360 and give you half the money for 10%. 1130 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,360 So I'd have 10%, Jenna would have 10% 1131 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,840 - because I think I would have to do so much work... - Yeah. 1132 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,320 - ..and Jenna brings so much to this party. - Yeah. 1133 00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,480 OK. Um... 1134 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,960 I think, yeah, I'd love to have both of you on board, that deal. 1135 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:53,640 - Yay! - Fantastic. 1136 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,640 APPLAUSE 1137 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,040 - Cool. - Well done. - Thank you. - Yeah, you were great. Well done. 1138 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,960 - Well done. - Thank you. - Well done. 1139 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,960 - Yeah, fantastic, well done. - Appreciate it. - Thank you. 1140 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,400 Success for Sam, 1141 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,280 who secures the backing of two Dragons 1142 00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,600 who will help ensure his product makes waves 1143 00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,000 in the world of children's headphones. 1144 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,480 I didn't quite expect to get one Dragon, let alone two. 1145 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,640 Just... Yeah, amazing. 1146 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,440 - We're in business together. - Yes. 1147 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,280 I think it could be really, really exciting. 1148 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,280 - Really good. - OK, I need to go and plug in. 1149 00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,280 Does he look like a Cyberman? 1150 00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,680 You don't watch Doctor Who, do you? He looks like a Cyberman. 1151 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:36,760 Yeah, I definitely don't think they fit. 1152 00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:38,280 THEY LAUGH 1153 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,360 Good luck. 1154 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:46,480 Next time... 1155 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,000 That one definitely isn't rubbish. 1156 00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,080 You're on fire with your puns, Peter. 1157 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:51,760 I couldn't agree less with Susie. 1158 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,040 Oh, really? 1159 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,280 This is going to be ridiculous. 1160 00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,000 I just know it's going to be ridiculous. 1161 00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,440 I'm not looking forward to your questions, but I'm here now. 1162 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,000 - Oh, my... - What? - Wow... - I know. 1163 00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,960 I'll come and cry on your shoulder later. 1164 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,200 - Ooh! - I have no idea why I'm engaging in this. 1165 00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:06,960 I hate this game. 1166 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:08,240 THEY LAUGH