1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,680 The doors to the Den are open for business. 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,800 A place where fortunes are made and futures are forged. 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,960 But this time, the game has changed. 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,800 A fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,840 and steal the deals. 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,680 Tonight... 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,200 I'm Susie Ma and I'm the founder and CEO of Tropic Skincare. 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,200 Having scaled the heights of the beauty world, 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,240 she's now investing in the future. 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,080 - Welcome to the Den. - Thank you so much for having me. 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,920 It's a pleasure to be here. 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,760 Tropic has been one of the top 100 13 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,800 {\an8}fastest growing businesses in the UK. 14 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,440 That's what I'm looking for. 15 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,360 I started when I was 15 years old 16 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,040 with one product that I sold at a market stall to help support my mum. 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,440 How much do you want this to work? 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,720 By the age of 17, I was able to put a deposit down on a house for her 19 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,520 and at 21 I paid off her mortgage. 20 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,640 Sorry, I'm getting emotional here. 21 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,200 I then went on The Apprentice... 22 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,840 - Are you listening to me? Are you listening? - I am listening. 23 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,400 Because I'm telling you, I know about this business. 24 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:09,440 I didn't win... 25 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,120 Susan, I'm afraid to say, you're fired. 26 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,680 ..but got an investment anyway from Lord Sugar, 27 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,240 and about three years ago I bought his shares back 28 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,640 to be the 100% owner of my company again. 29 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,000 When I look into the eyes of the entrepreneurs, 30 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,760 I want to see real passion. 31 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,280 I really like you. 32 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,200 I'm looking for that entrepreneur with that seed of an idea 33 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,520 that I know I can invest and support to make it something amazing. 34 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,880 The pressure is on and the Dragons are sharpening their claws. 35 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:49,840 - I'm Tanyka. - I'm Olivia. 36 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,480 We're sisters and co-founders of Cubbi. 37 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,160 - Cheers. - Cheers. 38 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,000 We're taking another entrepreneur into the Den with us. 39 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,160 I'm currently 38 weeks pregnant 40 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,840 and booked in for my C-section next week. 41 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,320 This is our money maker! 42 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,560 I'm really excited to see what Susie has to say as a new Dragon. 43 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,160 - I think we look really good together, guys. - Mm-hm. 44 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,520 Do you know what? We're doing navy, white, navy, 45 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,720 kind of white, navy, brown. 46 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,520 Almost like we phoned each other last night and said... 47 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,080 She's just had a baby, so I think this might be a good one for her. 48 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,280 Try not to go into labour! 49 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,320 Students have UNiDAYS. 50 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,480 Key workers have Blue Light Card. 51 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,720 And now new parents have Cubbi. 52 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,040 I'm Tanyka, this is my sister Olivia, 53 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:52,960 and we're the founders of Cubbi, 54 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,920 the money saving platform for new and expecting parents. 55 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,920 We're here today to offer you a 10% stake in our company 56 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:01,440 in return for £50,000. 57 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,840 We started building Cubbi when my son was just eight weeks old 58 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,640 and I was hyper aware that my salary was taking regular downward turns 59 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,480 while on maternity pay. 60 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,280 The things I'd usually do to make myself feel normal, 61 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,960 like a cup of coffee in my favourite coffee shop, 62 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,640 or a pair of new jeans to fit my changing body, 63 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:20,400 were now riddled with guilt. 64 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,160 I found myself spending hours 65 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,320 searching for discount codes and deals 66 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,880 to make my budget stretch as far as possible. 67 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,680 And that's why we built Cubbi. 68 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,480 Cubbi works in a similar way 69 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,040 to other multi-million-pound discount platforms, 70 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,920 offering verified new parents exclusive discounts 71 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,920 across their favourite brands. 72 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,120 Since we launched just over a year ago, 73 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,040 we've amassed nearly 20,000 followers on social media, 74 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,160 almost 12,000 app downloads and have partnered with over 100 brands. 75 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,960 Our app is free for new parents to use 76 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,920 and our business model is based on commission 77 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,760 paid to us by brands when users shop via our app. 78 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,240 The market opportunity here is huge. 79 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,240 Nearly 700,000 babies are born in the UK each year 80 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,600 and we estimate their parents are spending a combined £20 billion 81 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,840 during their year on parental leave. 82 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,840 We're now ready to scale our business 83 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,680 and would love to partner with a Dragon 84 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,080 to help us achieve our ambitious goals. 85 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:17,600 - Thank you. - Thank you. 86 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,280 A fledgling discount app 87 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:25,760 designed to ease the financial pressure on new parents 88 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,640 is the offering from sisters Tanyka and Olivia Davson. 89 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,520 The entrepreneurs are seeking £50,000 90 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,320 for a 10% share of their business. 91 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,480 First to dive into the details is Peter Jones. 92 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,400 - Tanyka, Olivia. - Hi. - Hi. - Great pitch. Great... 93 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,280 Great opening pitch. Totally get what it is. 94 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:57,280 However, it immediately put a ceiling on the opportunity 95 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:00,600 when you said that it's only available to new parents. 96 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,160 And you gave me the stats - 700,000 per annum? 97 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,120 - Yeah. - Why would you... 98 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,560 Why would you restrict it to that level? 99 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,440 We decided to target new parents in the beginning 100 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,360 because, first of all, from a marketing perspective, 101 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,920 it's really easy to kind of find that niche group 102 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,840 and target it to them so they understand what it is. 103 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:21,560 But this is just the initial phase of our business 104 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,520 and we certainly want to expand to have older parents 105 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,600 as their children grow as well. 106 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,760 So at the moment, what's the revenue on this? 107 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,040 What does that look like? 108 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,400 Yeah, so we do consider ourselves pre-revenue. 109 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,560 So the year ahead is our year one. 110 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,880 We're looking to generate £20,000. 111 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,960 Year two, erm, we will generate £160,000. 112 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,560 - Revenue? - In revenue, yes. - Revenue, yeah. 113 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,200 And year three, erm, we'll start making a profit. 114 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:57,160 So we will generate £600,000 with a profit of 190,000. 115 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,200 And excitingly, looking ahead to year five, 116 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,640 we're looking to generate £5.5 million, 117 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,160 with a net profit of £5 million. 118 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:09,640 And... 119 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,680 No, that's it, actually, for the moment. 120 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,720 Erm, I think... 121 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,840 ..you've got a great idea, but you're not capitalised on it. 122 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:26,120 I've got four or five baby brands, so I know that market very well. 123 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,880 And in my view, erm, there are... 124 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,960 ..loads of baby brands, children's brands out there, 125 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,960 who are willing to give discounts, coupons, discount codes. 126 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,880 But it's... 127 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,160 ..underutilised in the sense that I think there's an opportunity... 128 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:52,320 ..for you to specialise in up to, let's say age ten. 129 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:58,320 And I think you're limiting yourself just talking about new parents. 130 00:06:58,320 --> 00:06:59,640 Completely agree. 131 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,600 I think what we're trying to do now, as Tanyka mentioned, 132 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,640 this is our entry into the market. 133 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,920 And absolutely, we're looking to expand to parents of older children. 134 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,920 But you're putting barriers. 135 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,400 You see, I think if I was to advise you, 136 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,680 I would say, "Open the barriers up, guys. 137 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:22,520 "You be the number one stop shop for discount codes for baby brands." 138 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,080 So our brands on board are much broader than just baby and kids. 139 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,680 That's such a small element of our... 140 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,720 We want to offer discounts across everything. 141 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,280 So whether it's your takeaway or your jeans for you 142 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,560 or your new computer, it's anything... 143 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,440 Complicated. Too complicated. 144 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,400 Well, it's a model that works already for student discounts. 145 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,160 You're foc... With all due respect, you're focusing on newborn babies 146 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,160 and you're talking about everything. 147 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,560 - You see... - No, they're focusing on new mums. 148 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,040 We're not focusing on new babies. 149 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,520 We're focusing on that period of time where a new mum has had a baby, 150 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,560 she's lost who she is, she can't go to her favourite coffee shop, 151 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,480 she's feeling guilty about buying a pair of jeans. 152 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,960 So although we know we're not solving the problem in its entirety, 153 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,840 we're sort of lightning the load for new parents. 154 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,720 I can completely relate to that. 155 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,160 New mums want to know about, I don't know, 156 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,640 a discount off a yoga app they can download to help them feel better. 157 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,080 - Clothing... - It's about wellbeing. 158 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,760 ..that sucks you in a little bit and makes you feel more confident. 159 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,880 There's so much. Getting your hair done, getting your make-up done. 160 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,280 - You've only just come out with that. - I thought I did in my pitch, but... 161 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,080 I love this, I love that it's for new mums. I really, really do. 162 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,840 You've got some very ambitious targets for the next few years, 163 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,120 which I love. 164 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,320 Tell me how you're going to be going 165 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,760 to 5.5 million in revenue in year five. 166 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,440 Yes. In year three, we're going to look to open up our platform 167 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,440 to parents of older children. 168 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,960 And we estimate about 35% to 45% of parents will stay on with us. 169 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,200 We're looking to do it at that stage because at that point 170 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,960 we feel like we'll have a significant amount of brands 171 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,920 where the value for new parents makes sense for them 172 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,000 to want to continue on our platform. 173 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,240 Amazing. 174 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,680 Tanyka, Olivia, I really like the concept 175 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:10,520 and I think you're right to be focusing on that new parent niche, 176 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,080 especially at the beginning. 177 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,120 So if you get the £50,000 today... 178 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,920 - Yeah. - ..what are you planning to spend it on? 179 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,880 So majority of that will go on marketing. 180 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,840 So we've seen really good traction on social media, 181 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,640 Instagram specifically. 182 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,200 So we would like to try and transfer that over to TikTok 183 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,400 and make, you know, make use of other social media platforms. 184 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,680 And then outside of that, we think... 185 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:37,640 We've already started some conversations with the NHS. 186 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,480 If we could find a way to get in their leaflet packs 187 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,080 and just get in front of new parents 188 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,040 at that point in time that they are finding out about their baby, 189 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,400 that would give us the reach that we really need in terms of numbers. 190 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,000 - OK. - Could I could I ask you a question? 191 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,960 No, because I've been desperate to get in there! 192 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:59,160 Can I just ask, because both of you, you've answered your questions 193 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,480 really eloquently and really knowledgeably. 194 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,800 What industries are you currently in? 195 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,640 What industry are you in at the moment? 196 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,080 - I work in financial services. - Financial services. 197 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,840 I work in the world's biggest e-commerce platform 198 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,080 and I'm in engineering project management. 199 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,920 Well, that starts explaining it 200 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,760 because, you know, you clearly have an in-depth knowledge of... 201 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:19,880 You haven't just thought, 202 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,080 "Oh, this is a great idea," and working out how you do it. 203 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,040 You clearly know, erm, how to how to do it. 204 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,760 This is like a movie, this is. 205 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,880 This is like a movie with no script 206 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,600 and you have another job and you've got a dream. 207 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,520 But at the end of the day, back to reality. 208 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,240 And the reality tells me you're going to need a lot of money. 209 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:44,680 I don't think we will. 210 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,360 We know how much money we think we'll need 211 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,720 and this is why we focused on a small niche. 212 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,880 This discounts element of our business 213 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,960 has super high profit margins. 214 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,560 You're fantastic. 215 00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:00,200 But the reality is, how do we... 216 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,920 - ..take this from where it is today to a proper business? - Yeah. 217 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,400 And how do you take that leap 218 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,920 and commit yourself full-time to this? 219 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,120 - You have to take the leap and... - And we're ready to do that now. 220 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,240 Yeah, we are doing... The thing is... 221 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,960 The reason that we haven't grown more 222 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,560 is because we don't have the time. 223 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,720 So we both need to focus on this full-time. 224 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,640 - And we are going to do that. - And we're going to do that. 225 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,440 - So are you both leaving your jobs to do this? - Yes. - Yes. - Are you? 226 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,440 Wow. That's massive commitment. 227 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,760 A massive risk. 228 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,360 We know that, but I think in a year's time, 229 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:36,600 if we're still in this place here 230 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,880 because we haven't been able to put the hours in to make it something, 231 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,680 I will kick myself. 232 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:45,560 But I would never want to put anybody in that position. 233 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:48,640 If they're going to give up their job because they believe in it 234 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,760 and they're struggling at the back end, that's not what I want. 235 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,840 Touker, whether you invest or not, we're giving up our job. 236 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:56,720 We're going to raise money for this business 237 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,800 and we're going to deliver it. So you can either be in it or not! 238 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,600 - And also... - Yeah! 239 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,160 Absolutely right! 240 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,400 Guys, I'm going to cut across here because you just made my mind up. 241 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,560 Listen, you two are really, really, really good. 242 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:16,040 - Thank you. - Thank you. 243 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,120 IMITATING WHIP CRACK 244 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,440 And so I am going to make you an offer. 245 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,880 And I absolutely assure you it's down to you two. 246 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,680 So you've asked for £50,000 for 10% of the business. 247 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:33,520 I'm going to offer you all of the money... 248 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,680 ..and I want 20% of the business. 249 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:40,960 - You're very early stage. - Yes. - Yeah. 250 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,560 Tanyka and Olivia, I'm going to follow on straight away 251 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:50,560 because you are both incredibly, incredibly good. 252 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,120 - Thank you. - Thank you. 253 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,800 However, this is not sort of what I would class 254 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,440 as my sort of wheelhouse. 255 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,120 - OK. - So I'm going to say that I'm out. 256 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,960 Erm... 257 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,120 This is going to take quite a few years. 258 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,880 It's not a 12-month project. 259 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,560 You're not going to wave a magic wand and change it. 260 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,680 - And for that reason, I'm out. - OK. - Thank you, Touker. 261 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,360 Tanyka, Olivia, I've really enjoyed watching this. It's been so fun. 262 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,240 And I think I've sat here trying to figure out 263 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,720 whether I want to invest or I just want to be your friend. 264 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,560 But 50K is a lot of money to spend on a friend. 265 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:38,320 So, for that reason, I'm going to say that I'm out. 266 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,200 But I wish you the very, very best for the future. 267 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,600 And I feel so proud of you, even though I don't really know you. 268 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,480 - So well done. - Thank you. - Thank you. 269 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,400 I think you're amazing, I really do. 270 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,160 And, you know, when I look at what you're trying to do, 271 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,480 it reminds me of how I first started in business. 272 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,360 And sometimes you do have to put absolutely everything on the line 273 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,400 in order to chase your dreams. 274 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,520 And I would love to support you in that journey. 275 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,400 And in my good... 276 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:11,800 My... 277 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,960 Sorry, I'm getting emotional here! 278 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,360 My expertise is building a community. 279 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,520 You know, a lot of people think that when you start up a new business, 280 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,920 the most important thing is marketing. 281 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,360 - Yeah. - But actually, I believe in the power of the word of mouth. 282 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,240 - Yes. - And I've proven that. 283 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,120 You know, in my business, I spend a tiny fraction 284 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,320 of our everyday revenue on advertising, on social media, 285 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:37,800 on any of that stuff. 286 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:42,040 And we have built an incredible community of over 20,000 ambassadors 287 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,080 that are active every single month, 288 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,520 buying our products and selling our products. 289 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,640 - And we've literally done that through word of mouth. - Yeah. 290 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,880 And I think the mummy and new parent community is so tight-knit... 291 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,040 - It's so tight. - Yeah. - So that's where I feel I can really help you. 292 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,760 So I am going to make you an offer. 293 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,360 You asked for £50,000 for 10% of your business. 294 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,080 I'm going to offer you all of the money... 295 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,280 ..and I'm going to go for the 10% that you've asked for as well. 296 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,080 - Thank you, Susie. - Of course. - That's amazing. 297 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,520 Thank you, Deborah, and thank you Susie for your offers. 298 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,360 We would love to accept your offer, Susie. 299 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,320 - Well done. - Oh, my God! Can I give you a hug? 300 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:36,680 INDISTINCT 301 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,160 Victory for Olivia and Tanyka. 302 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,120 - Nice to meet you. - Thank you. - Thank you. 303 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,800 Well done. 304 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,680 With new mum Susie Ma in their corner, 305 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,240 their business has a nurturing start 306 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,240 as the debutante Dragon proudly lands her first deal. 307 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,000 - What happened? - I don't know. I can't even remember. 308 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,800 Yeah, it was good. 309 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,600 And we're really happy to walk away with Susie. 310 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,880 I don't usually high five a competitor. 311 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,480 - But... - Oh! 312 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,440 You smashed it. Are you kidding me? 313 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,720 - I was being a bit sassy, wasn't I? - It was good. 314 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,080 Don't mess with a pregnant woman! 315 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,440 Unfortunately, I won't be celebrating 316 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,120 with a glass of wine tonight. 317 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,080 - I will! - Erm... 318 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,000 We just need to do a bit of the power... What was it? 319 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,800 This one. Power stance. 320 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,280 I'm Louise, this is Kate, and we're the co-founders of Craft & Crumb. 321 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:48,760 Whatever happens... 322 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:51,640 INDISTINCT 323 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,840 - Cookies. - Yep. 324 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,880 You add water or an egg and you make your own cookies. 325 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,160 So what's new? What's the twist? 326 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,320 Yeah. I don't know why you just don't buy a cookie. 327 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,320 We're lucky in the fact that we're still able 328 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,360 to be friends and run a business together. 329 00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:13,520 It makes it more fun doing it with your best friend. 330 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,440 I couldn't really wish to do it with anyone better. 331 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,360 Hello, Dragons. I'm Louise. 332 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:32,600 And I'm Kate, and we are the founders of Craft & Crumb. 333 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,840 We're on a mission to make home baking more creative, 334 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,240 more connected and way more fun. 335 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,960 We're here today looking for £100,000 336 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,920 in exchange for 3% of our business. 337 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,840 - Wow. - Kate and I met when our kids were little. 338 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,960 Kate was one of those mums who loved baking with her kids 339 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,760 and was very good at it. 340 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,880 I, on the other hand, was not. 341 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,800 So many parents are looking for creative opportunities 342 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,560 and fun things to do with their kids, 343 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,400 but often they can find it very overwhelming. 344 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,520 I just wanted a simple baking kit, 345 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,960 one that contained everything that was needed 346 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,000 and was well thought through. 347 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,640 It's you. 348 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,760 That's when we realised we didn't just want to improve baking mixes, 349 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,360 we wanted to create an amazing experience, 350 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,840 something that felt exciting, creative and tasted delicious. 351 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,600 And Craft & Crumb was launched in 2016 from my kitchen table. 352 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,280 We started with baking kits 353 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,400 and then we went on to launch our bake kit party bags, 354 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,960 as there were so many parents like ourselves 355 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,800 who were fed up of our kids coming home from a party 356 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,920 with yet another plastic bag full of tat. 357 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,000 Then lockdown happened 358 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,120 and of course baking became the nation's favourite pastime. 359 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,120 Our business boomed. 360 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,200 We moved into a fulfilment centre 361 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,920 and launched into John Lewis, Ocado and Selfridges. 362 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,920 In the past two weeks, we have just launched into 230 Tesco stores 363 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,600 on their Accelerator scheme, which is a major milestone for us. 364 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,640 Thank you very much. 365 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,400 We'd like to invite two of you to come and decorate a biscuit. 366 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,200 - What about our guest Dragon? - I'd love to. 367 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,240 As someone who never bakes! 368 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,560 So who's going to come and join Susie? 369 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,720 - All right, I'll do it. - Let's do it, Steven. - Right, I'll do it. 370 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,400 A children's home baking kit with clever crafting added in 371 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,120 is the offering from Kate Horne and Louise Nicholson. 372 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,520 This is my art A-level. 373 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,120 It's quite nice to have those two quiet for a minute! 374 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:39,360 The entrepreneurs are seeking £100,000... 375 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:40,920 Deborah, I've finished. 376 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:45,160 That's amazing. 377 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,440 I'm never eating that. 378 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,720 That's going to be framed and that's going on my wall. 379 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,040 And that's a happy face cos we're all happy to be in the Den. 380 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,880 ..in exchange for a 3% share in their business. 381 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,040 Oh, wait. Hang on a second. Hang on a second. 382 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,200 Let's see. What have you done? 383 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,640 - OK, sorry... - Oh, you... I will never trust you again! 384 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,240 Cheat! 385 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,040 - We do, in fact, have a little something for each one of you? - Wow. 386 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,040 Steven Bartlett may not be playing by the rules... 387 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,600 - I can't believe you thought I did that. - I did! 388 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,000 Steven, I was shocked. 389 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,000 ..but a more obedient Susie Ma is ready to get down to business. 390 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,160 Louise and Kate, first of all, congratulations. 391 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,880 - Thank you. - What a gorgeous business. 392 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,240 I love the branding, I love the animals, 393 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,880 the creativity, the fun side of it. 394 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,480 Help me understand about the actual product itself 395 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,920 in terms of the cookie that is made. 396 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,000 Because I'm looking at your ingredients 397 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,600 and I'm seeing flour and caster sugar. 398 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,960 Do you have a range with slightly healthier alternatives 399 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,360 like brown flour, whole grain flour? 400 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,240 So, we are mums, we've got five children, 401 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,960 we're health conscious, we care what they eat. 402 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,800 It is definitely important to us. 403 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,560 We're not marketing this 404 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,120 as something that's to be eaten every day. 405 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,800 It's a creative activity with a treat at the end. 406 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,080 But what we'd love to do is have a more health conscious range. 407 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,640 We'd have an allergy sensitive range. 408 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,880 We've got loads of ideas, but at this moment, 409 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,120 with the resources that we've got, you know, 410 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:26,560 we're concentrating on this. 411 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,840 But it's absolutely something that we would love to do in the future. 412 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,640 I suppose if I was shopping for this kind of product, 413 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,240 what is the reason why I would buy your product 414 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,280 over your competitor's products? 415 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,720 So our product, we spend a lot of time 416 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,360 working out what that creative bake is. 417 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:44,080 So you might find our competitors 418 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,960 make a cupcake and then put a wafer on it. 419 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,240 For us, you're making leopard print biscuits, 420 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,920 you know, burger and chips out of cakes. 421 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,880 We also have obviously the craft activity 422 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,360 that's on the inside of the box. 423 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,400 And we know that our customers are quite happy to gift our kit 424 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,080 just as much as have it and use it with their own children 425 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,960 because it's premium and design looking. 426 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,320 So your point of difference 427 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,080 isn't necessarily the final product itself, 428 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,200 but the experience, the fun of it, in making that product. 429 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,040 - Yeah, yeah. - OK. 430 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,680 Now, 100,000 for 3%. 431 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,560 You must have knocked it out of the park. 432 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,000 This must be a great business and making lots of money. 433 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,240 So tell me about that. Last 12 months, what have you turned over? 434 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,360 What's been your net profit? 435 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:30,360 So, last 12 months, 436 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:35,960 we turned over 1,065,000 with a net of 66,000. 437 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,800 66. 438 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,440 OK. And the year before? 439 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,720 And the year before that, we turned over 905,000 with a net of 44. 440 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,240 OK. And what's the forecast for this year? 441 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,920 So this year, we are forecasting 1.5 million 442 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,400 and 15,000 for our net. 443 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,920 - 15,000? - Yep. 444 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,960 So you're going to make £15,000 445 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,360 and you're valuing a business at over three million. 446 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,560 So this is our tough year because this is our big year of scaling up. 447 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,560 So this year we launched into Tesco, 448 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,360 but over the next couple of years we intend to be in three 449 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:12,120 and then five supermarkets over the following years. 450 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:16,680 So in year two, we were looking to take 3.2 million 451 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,200 with a net then of £200,000. 452 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,160 Right. You've done well, haven't you, 453 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,960 to think you can get a valuation of three million away? 454 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,440 Well, we look to say that we have ten years. 455 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,160 We've been going for nearly ten years. 456 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,080 - Is that how long it's been going? - Nearly ten years. Yeah. 457 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,240 Louise and Kate, we played a game before you walked in, 458 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,320 which is we try and guess what it is just from looking at it. 459 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,880 And we all knew what it was, so there was a silence. 460 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,120 Actually, the silence was because we were trying to figure out 461 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:50,520 what the twist was, what was the innovation here. 462 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,960 And you walked out and you basically revealed 463 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,840 that there isn't really a twist to this business. 464 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,680 It's a home baking kit. 465 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,960 And part of the issue with that is... 466 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,400 ..that alludes to the fact that this is an incredibly competitive market. 467 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,600 And so I wasn't surprised to then hear 468 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,480 that when we look at your top line revenue growth, 469 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,480 it's about 10% or 15% a year. 470 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,400 So as an investor, I need to see a growth profile 471 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,120 to indicate to me that there is defensibility here in the idea, 472 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:20,440 there's some kind of innovation here. 473 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,320 And as I've looked and I've looked, and Susie asked you a question, 474 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,280 the point of innovation is it's more fun. 475 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,000 Now, I have to then sit here and figure out 476 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,800 if that's a big enough value proposition 477 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,000 and a defendable enough value proposition, 478 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,600 and one that your competitors also aren't saying 479 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,760 when they market their products for this to take off. 480 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,040 And I don't think it is. 481 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,320 - So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the best. - Thank you. 482 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,320 Kate and Louise, erm... 483 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,400 I mean, this is really difficult in terms of... 484 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,640 You've done really well to create a product 485 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,920 and you've done it from your kitchen and then now you've got a business. 486 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,320 You've done really well to get into supermarkets. 487 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,320 But I think your three million valuation is just ridiculous. 488 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,360 There's no question that this business is worth nowhere near that. 489 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:08,520 In fact, I would question 490 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,760 if it's even getting up to the seven-figure level. 491 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,120 Erm... 492 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,760 You are great entrepreneurs 493 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,880 and you've done a brilliant job getting to this point, 494 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,840 but I don't think it's an investment 495 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,400 because I don't think I'm going to get a return. 496 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,680 I think you're going to need a lot more dough. 497 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,080 And on that basis, it can't get an investment from me today, 498 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,880 - so I'm going to say that I'm out. - Thank you. - Thank you. 499 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,400 Erm... 500 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:39,320 So all I can say to you is, it's time to review your whole business. 501 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,480 Do not plan a big expansion, but caution, focus... 502 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,760 ..and consolidate. 503 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,760 I wish you all the best, 504 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,720 but today I'm not going to part with £100,000. 505 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,120 So for that reason, I'm out. 506 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,240 Louise and Kate, 507 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,960 I really commend you for what you've done. 508 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,320 I mean, if you have a look at what you've created in your business, 509 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,360 you've generated millions. 510 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:13,000 But what concerns me the most 511 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,560 is that for a business that has been going for ten years, 512 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,560 you're ending with £15,000 profit. 513 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,120 And the valuation that you have set is not reflective 514 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:28,840 of your actual business because the profit is not there. 515 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,680 - And so for that reason, I'm out. - Thank you. 516 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,560 So I'm going to tell you where I am. 517 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,040 I... 518 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,160 I think this is a business for you. 519 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,040 And sometimes businesses do take a while to grow. 520 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,960 It can take some time to do that. 521 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,680 And then suddenly you wake up and think, 522 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,960 "Oh, my goodness, we've really got something here," 523 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,160 which is what I suspect happened to you. 524 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,080 It started off as, "Let's do it, let's make a bit of money." 525 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,480 And now you're thinking, "Wow, we can do this." 526 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,920 But I think it's for you. You're smart. You can do it. 527 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,560 You've done it already. 528 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,960 You're good. I think you'll have a great business. 529 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,160 But I won't be investing. I'm out. 530 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,080 - Thank you. - Thank you very much. - Good luck. - Good luck. 531 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,920 Thank you for coming in. 532 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,560 That's it for Kate and Louise. 533 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,760 Their hard work earned them admiration from the Dragons, 534 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,080 but their limited profits proved a hurdle too high 535 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,000 for a deal to be made. 536 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,960 We obviously didn't get investment, 537 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,000 but the Dragons gave us great feedback, actually, 538 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,360 which we will take on board. 539 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:36,320 Absolutely delighted with ourselves. 540 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,840 Worthy of patting ourselves on the back. 541 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,360 I hope they understand how well they have done. 542 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:43,440 Yes. Yeah. A million pounds. 543 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,280 I suppose that's the way cookie crumbles, isn't it?! 544 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,040 - OK. - Green light, time to lift. 545 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,320 - Ah, do you want... - I'll have some water. 546 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,040 I'm Richard, this is Erica. We're from CompoCloset. 547 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,800 It's going to be good. 548 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,640 - Oh... - Oh, this is us. 549 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,160 OK. 550 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,280 We're trying to make off-grid toilets more convenient. 551 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:18,920 - Everybody poops! - Yeah. 552 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,560 There's no going back now, is there? 553 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,200 - A Portaloo. - Portaloo, yeah. 554 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,920 I think these are quite versatile, though. 555 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,400 They're not just for camping. Everyday use. 556 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,720 - Stuck on the M6... - Oh, right, in your car? 557 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,160 Could have done with that about three hours ago! 558 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:37,920 I'm so nervous. 559 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,000 Everybody poops. 560 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,480 Hello, Dragons. My name is Richard. 561 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,080 I'm the CEO and co-founder of CompoCloset. 562 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,040 Hello, Dragons. My name is Erica. 563 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,120 I am the co-founder and head of marketing at CompoCloset. 564 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,520 So often, we experience off-grid toilets 565 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,440 as a dirty, inconvenient chore. 566 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,160 CompoCloset is looking to revolutionise off-grid sanitation. 567 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,800 It started in 2020 568 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,240 when I installed a market leading composting toilet in my camper van 569 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,240 and I found it so much less unpleasant to empty 570 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,200 than a regular portable toilet that uses chemicals. 571 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,600 However, I saw a lot of room for improvement 572 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,480 and in 2021 we crowdfunded Cuddy, 573 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,480 which was the portable composting toilet 574 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,840 specifically designed for campervans. 575 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,480 So Cuddy is a composting toilet. 576 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,640 It uses a compost process in order to break down your number twos. 577 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:34,880 They all use urine diversion 578 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,280 to separate them out and stop the formation of sewage. 579 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,280 But with Cuddy, you actually add a carbon rich material to it 580 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,160 and it starts breaking down that number two. 581 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,800 Our latest product is the S1 Sealer. 582 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,200 It is a dry flush toilet and that seals waste 583 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,600 in a compostable or a recyclable plastic bag. 584 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,520 So far, the business has been doing very well 585 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,400 and last year's turnover was just over £700,000. 586 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,520 We sell primarily direct to consumer in North America, 587 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,240 US, Canada, and the UK, 588 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,680 and we have distributors in Australia, New Zealand and Germany. 589 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,080 We're currently looking for £100,000 for a 3% stake in the business. 590 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,560 I'll go into a quick demonstration of each product, if that's OK? 591 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,680 - Not quite a live demo! - Not a live demonstration! 592 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,840 A range of composting toilets 593 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,760 which break down waste without water or chemicals 594 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,400 are proposition from Richard Peter and Erica Pugh. 595 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,160 So this is our first product. It's Cuddy. 596 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,240 It's a urine diverting toilet. 597 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,440 And they work by separating solids and liquids 598 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,440 with a urine diverting seat. 599 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,520 Inside, there's a... 600 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,560 ..agitator which makes it self-contained. 601 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,600 So what you would add is the sawdust or coco coir at the start 602 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,040 and then you mix it after each use so you don't make a mess. 603 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,320 The pair are seeking £100,000... 604 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,240 Cuddy Lite has all the same features, 605 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,320 but we took away the poo mixing 606 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,200 so you would pre bag it and add sawdust after each use. 607 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,520 ..in exchange for 3% of their company. 608 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,080 And lastly we have the S1 Sealer. 609 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,840 This is a dry flush toilet and it has all the same features. 610 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,400 However, when you press flush... 611 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,040 ..it will kindly seal the waste in a compostable bag. 612 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,680 The entrepreneurs have already lifted the lids on their products. 613 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,920 Now, it's time for the Dragons to lift the lid on their business. 614 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,600 - Richard and Erica, hi. - Hi. 615 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,680 - It absolutely looks fantastic. - Thank you. - Thank you. 616 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,000 - But is it comfortable? - Try it. - Try it. 617 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,480 - Just keep your trousers on! - Yeah. 618 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,800 He's quite tall, isn't he? 619 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,640 LAUGHTER 620 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,840 - You're riding it like a horse! - I had to reverse in! 621 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,200 - I feel like we need a bigger one. - Is that... 622 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,120 Can you close the curtain? 623 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,600 - Well, you've got to get the thing in, haven't you? - Oh, yeah. 624 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,440 - Oh, my God. - No? Am I the only one with that issue? 625 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,560 I think you probably want to be a bit further back in the tent. 626 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,560 - But it's a loo with a view. Look at it. You're good. - It's quite small. 627 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,200 Yeah. It's low. It's designed to go under a bench seat. 628 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,120 Do they come in bigger versions? 629 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,080 - That's exactly what we want to develop next. - A full-size version. 630 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,760 Cos if I was to invest, 631 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,600 I think I'd need a bigger version, if that's all right? 632 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,560 Just for you. 633 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,240 Hi, guys. 634 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,840 I used to know a lot about composting toilets 635 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,640 because I was looking at putting them down by my stables. 636 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,680 But when you're talking, sort of bits of that are coming back, 637 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,920 but I've lost the whole picture. 638 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,480 So can you talk about the IP? 639 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,160 Do you have any protection on it? 640 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,240 The specific IP within Cuddy is the extending agitator. 641 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,800 So typically, they would have them on the side, 642 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,680 and that requires a lot of space, 643 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,120 whereas we put ours on the front where you always have access 644 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,480 because you've got to sit on it. 645 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:07,960 And it extends. 646 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,800 That means that it's more compact for a camper van. 647 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,640 It's patent pending. We haven't pushed it to grant. 648 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,440 We pushed it to... 649 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,480 - Do you want to put the lid down as well? - Thank you. 650 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,200 Yes, Mum! 651 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,200 Erm... We haven't pushed it to grant. 652 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,240 We've filed it internationally in America, 653 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,160 Australia, Europe and the UK. 654 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,880 OK. Got it. Thank you. 655 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,720 Hi, guys. Can I get confirmation on your revenue and profit? 656 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,080 So you said it was 780, was it, revenue? 657 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,000 - Erm... - 700. - 705, yeah. 658 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,960 705, revenue. 659 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,160 And what's your net profit? 660 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,640 Net profit this last year was £75,000. 661 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,520 OK. And what are you forecasting for this next year, this upcoming year? 662 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,160 The target for sales for this year is 1.2 million sterling. 663 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,520 Yeah. 664 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,800 Erm, we're at about £415,000 in revenue. 665 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,880 And what are you forecasting for the end of year 666 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,760 in terms of profitability? 667 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,880 I would expect for the end of the year, a £300,000 loss. 668 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,720 OK. So I'm trying to figure out if I invest £100,000, 669 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:18,840 which is a lot of money, for 3%, 670 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,880 you know, I have to do the math to figure out if I can get 671 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,640 a seven-figure return on that investment over time. 672 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,560 So give me give me the big picture vision 673 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,000 of how big this business can get 674 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,760 and then just detail for me how it gets there. 675 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,640 So with the growth in the business in the next two years, 676 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,920 we're planning to achieve a £4 million turnover. 677 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,800 And the profitability there? 678 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,560 I would expect a profitability closer to £1 million. 679 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,960 So if you have £1 million of profit and I have 3% of the business... 680 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,280 - Yeah. - ..how much am I going to get paid as a dividend that year? 681 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,320 Nothing. We'll reinvest it. 682 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,360 The real growth for the business isn't just, like, next year. 683 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,120 We're looking for investors that are in this for longer term. 684 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,440 We want to start with this model and the S1, prove that it works, 685 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,080 and then make a larger model to take on like 5%, 686 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,520 at least 5% of the RV market. 687 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,400 So when do you think I get my money back in a multiple? 688 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,480 Is there a year? 689 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,800 - I'd say... - A long time. 690 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,840 I reckon you'd be talking seven years. 691 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,400 I guess all of this is contingent on this being so unique 692 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,760 and such a better solution, 693 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,240 that people will continue to choose this over the alternative. 694 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:38,480 So I have to turn to our portable poop connoisseur, Deborah Meaden... 695 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,640 LAUGHTER 696 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,800 How different is this in terms of...? 697 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,080 I think my question would be, in the RVs at the moment, 698 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,840 the toilets look a lot more like toilets. 699 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,920 So they're full-size toilets and they are basically plumbed in. 700 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,680 - They're toilets. - Yeah. - Yes. 701 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,560 So I think there's two issues here. 702 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,320 One is the consumer behaviour, 703 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,520 because that doesn't have the same experience. 704 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,400 But the second one is, and having worked in the caravan industry, 705 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,640 trying to get them to change the layouts of blinking caravans and... 706 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,760 Oh, my goodness, it's hard. 707 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,160 Because the whole manufacturing process is built around 708 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,240 putting in normal toilets plumbed into tanks. 709 00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:21,560 - I didn't give you a lot of hope there, did I? - No. 710 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,600 So for that reason I'm going to say that I'm out. 711 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,640 - OK. - But I wish you the very best. 712 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,920 I just can't see how I'll be able to get a return on that basis. 713 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,080 - So thank you. - Thank you. 714 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,080 Richard and Erica... 715 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:42,520 ..it sounds like you're very passionate about this subject. 716 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,840 - But as an investment... - Yeah. 717 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,920 ..I'm only taking a three-year view at the moment. 718 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,280 I'm not taking a seven-year view, unfortunately, 719 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,880 you know, because I get offered lots of investments 720 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,600 and I can get a much better return. 721 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,400 So for that reason, I'm out. 722 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,520 Guys, look, you clearly know your stuff 723 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,400 and I really commend you for that. 724 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,800 Unfortunately for me, this is not an area that I'm passionate about 725 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,640 and I don't think I'm the right Dragon for you guys. 726 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,480 So for that reason, I'm out. 727 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,280 Richard, Erica. 728 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,280 - I think this is absolutely brilliant. - Thank you. 729 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,960 I think that you both have presented really, really well. 730 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,040 Richard, you're nervous, and yet you're quirky. 731 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,280 As a character, you'd be amazing, both of you, to work with. 732 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,680 I think you'd be refreshing and I'd like to be given that chance. 733 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,240 Erm... So that's why I'm going to make you an offer. 734 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,000 If you had come in here in 12 months' time 735 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,800 and you had your patent and you had everything teed up, 736 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,640 and this was a purely... 737 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:59,000 ..sort of, let's say more advice-led investment, 738 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,520 I think the offer of 100,000 at 3% would be right. 739 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,400 But I do think that you're overvaluing 740 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,480 at this moment what you've got. 741 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,840 And that's why I'm going to make you an offer of all of the money, 742 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,040 but for 20% of the business. 743 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:14,480 Wow. 744 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,000 Peter Jones! 745 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:20,840 20%? 746 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,360 And I'd also be willing to share that. 747 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,480 - They wanted three. - It doesn't matter what they want. 748 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,960 I actually think that's a fair offer. 749 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,400 I tell you what, I like... 750 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,960 I like what you do, 751 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,320 but I also understand the journey you've got ahead of you. 752 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,080 What you've got going for you 753 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,040 is people are becoming increasingly concerned, 754 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,120 particularly people who jump into their RVs and travel around, 755 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,320 particularly concerned about the environment. 756 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:52,360 Erm... 757 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,240 You better not make an offer after telling me this had no hope! 758 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:02,520 LAUGHTER 759 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:03,680 I didn't. 760 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,280 I answered your questions honestly and I stand by those answers. 761 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:09,320 Erm... 762 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,400 Do you know what? I'm not going to make you an offer 763 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,840 because I can't see for me that it's an investment 764 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,880 that I'm going to get a reasonable return on 765 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,000 in a reasonable amount of time. 766 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,960 - So I'm afraid I'm out. - Thank you. - Thank you very much. 767 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,560 So 20% is obviously a big chunk of the business. 768 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,320 Do you have connections with the RV industry and those manufacturers, 769 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,280 or do you have connections of connections? 770 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,520 No. No, I wouldn't want to oversell that. 771 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,640 - I don't have those direct connections. - OK. 772 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,800 However, we do have the ability to open doors 773 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,280 that perhaps were closed previously. 774 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,400 OK. 775 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,200 I think... 776 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,640 - You say. - I think we're going to decline the offer. 777 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,680 We do appreciate the offer. 778 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,840 We believe we'd like to continue 779 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,800 to try and grow it ourselves and... 780 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,360 ..see where the journey takes us. 781 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:22,920 Good for you. Good for you. 782 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,600 Do you know what? I completely respect that decision. 783 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,680 So on that basis, I'll have to say that I'm out. 784 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,840 - But good luck to you. - Thank you. - I hope it all works out. 785 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,040 - Good luck, guys. - You're going to do great. - Thank you. - Thank you. 786 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,600 Richard and Erica must leave the Den without a deal. 787 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:43,720 Oh. 788 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:49,320 OK. 789 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,440 The gulf between their ask and Peter Jones's offer... 790 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,920 Well, that was fun! 791 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,480 ..proving too wide to bridge. 792 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,360 I think we would have gone to maybe 10% or something, 793 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,000 but I think 20% wasn't what we were expecting 794 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,840 as far as giving away the equity. 795 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,960 20%. Wow. 796 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,440 We wanted a Dragon, but not at that price. 797 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,840 I had to go in at a much higher level than they were offering. 798 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,280 Honestly, Peter, that is a fair offer. 799 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,680 - They have got massive obstacles ahead of them. - Yeah. 800 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,400 - So, we're here. - This is it. 801 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,600 I'm Tomas, this is Martin, and we're from OnlyCat. 802 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,320 - We got this. - We got this. 803 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,280 Jinx really came up with the idea. Jinx is my cat. 804 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,080 She started bringing in lots and lots of mice and birds 805 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,040 in the middle of the night and I had to do something about it. 806 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,840 This has got Deborah Meaden written all over it. 807 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,240 Do you have cats, Deborah? 808 00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:05,440 - I do have cats. And dogs and horses and geese and sheep. - Oh, wow! 809 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,760 You've got a whole zoo at your house. I love it! 810 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,920 I'm feeling both excited and, yeah, obviously a little bit... 811 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,360 ..a little bit nervous. 812 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,440 It's a great opportunity to showcase 813 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,440 what we've spent the last three and a half years building. 814 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,320 Let's see if they like it. 815 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,160 - Hello, Dragons. My name is Martin. - And I'm Tom. 816 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,840 We're brothers and the founders of OnlyCat. 817 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,040 We've created a smart, AI-powered cat flap 818 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,080 designed to stop your cats bringing home prey. 819 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,320 This is OnlyCat. 820 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,800 The built-in, AI-enabled camera screens your cats upon entry. 821 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,920 If prey is detected, the door remains locked. 822 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,280 We even send video alerts to your phone 823 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,280 so you can see the foiled attempts. 824 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,560 The feedback from the OnlyCat community is phenomenal. 825 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,080 They say is worth every penny, 826 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,880 even at our £450 premium price point. 827 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,840 The pet tech market is booming 828 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:21,040 and we've already raised over £750,000 in pre-orders. 829 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,520 And we're here today looking for £200,000 investment 830 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,240 in return for 4% equity in our business. 831 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,240 We'd love to do a demo of the product to show you how it works. 832 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:35,040 - Great. - OK. - Cool. 833 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,040 A 21st century take on the cat flap 834 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,360 is the offering from Martin and Tom Rosinski. 835 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,800 So over here, I have the OnlyCat app installed on my phone. 836 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,480 I'm now on the activity feed, 837 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,120 so I'm seeing a list of all recent entries and exits, 838 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,400 both from my cat, Jinx, but also from friends and family 839 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,480 who have chosen to share their OnlyCat devices with me 840 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,680 so I can keep in touch with their cats. 841 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,320 The siblings are seeking £200,000... 842 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,600 So as Jinx approaches, the cat flap scans her face, 843 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,760 detects that the cat is coming home alone, 844 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,960 and the cat can pass through the cat flap. 845 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,480 ..in return for 4% of their business. 846 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:26,000 But now, Tom has attached a fluffy toy mouse to the cat. 847 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,560 The cat flap recognises what's happening 848 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,600 and the cat was not allowed entry. 849 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,000 Fashion mogul Touker Suleyman 850 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,120 might be more familiar with catwalks than cat flaps, 851 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,800 but he's first to quiz the pair further. 852 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,160 Right, Martin and Tom. 853 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,360 So tell us about each one of you, 854 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,280 what your background is, what your qualifications are. 855 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,040 - So we get an idea... - Absolutely, yeah. 856 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,720 So we're both fascinated by technology. 857 00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,160 My background has always been electronics and software. 858 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,000 Previously, I founded a company called WOLF, 859 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,120 the World's Online Festival. 860 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,440 That grew to be a business bringing in $10 million of revenue annually. 861 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,760 My background is in mechanical engineering. 862 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,360 I'm a CEO of an engineering consultancy company 863 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,600 that does problem solving and troubleshooting 864 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,400 of vibrating machinery. 865 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,800 So that business, we've got a turnover of four million. 866 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:30,320 So at the moment, you mentioned that it's not cheap. 867 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:31,760 £450. 868 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,120 Yes. It's a premium product. 869 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,520 How much does that box cost you to manufacture? 870 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,520 We are looking at... 871 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,240 ..around £160. 872 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,880 And your route to market is going to be online, direct to consumer, 873 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,440 or is it a wholesale model or what? 874 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,480 So at the moment, it is direct to consumer. 875 00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,560 Right. So give us some numbers. 876 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,640 So your sales, your gross profit and your net profit. 877 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,800 So last year we had 352,000 revenue, 878 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,080 155,000 gross and zero net. 879 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,880 This year we are looking at 1.9 million turnover. 880 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,400 We're now seeing weekly orders in the region of 30,000 881 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,080 and that has been growing on an exponential trajectory. 882 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,400 - 30,000 a week? - Correct. - Yes. 883 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,560 So 1.9. Gross profit? 884 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,400 847,000. 885 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,920 And 339,000 profit, net. 886 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,080 Can we just look at your...? I think it's really... 887 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,080 I think it's obviously a really neat product. 888 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:43,920 It's not something I would use, to be perfectly honest. 889 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,720 I don't have a cat flap - I let the cats in and out. 890 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:50,120 But I completely get it. I think the price is quite racy. 891 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,080 What would an electronic cat flap 892 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,680 that allows me to let cats in and out, what would that cost? 893 00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,160 The most basic cat flap that can let only your cats in 894 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,040 costs around £50. 895 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,280 - Yeah. - Then there are connected cat flaps, which can cost £230. 896 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,680 But we have the prey detection and also the camera. 897 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,200 OK. So let's talk about IP. 898 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:15,480 What have you got? 899 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,200 So we have a patent that's pending 900 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,000 on the AI technology and the prey detection. 901 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,880 And more fundamentally, we believe the training data 902 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,240 that's necessary to train the algorithms 903 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,960 isn't easy to new entrants on the market. 904 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,520 OK, so I've got to ask you... 905 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:34,120 Erm... 906 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,200 You've got experience. 907 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,160 You've got technical skills. 908 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,680 - Why do you want a Dragon? - Sure. 909 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,480 So we want to accelerate our manufacturing. 910 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,040 We want to reach more customers 911 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,920 and really amplify the direct-to-consumer growth 912 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,280 that we've been seeing. 913 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,240 But as I said, you have experience, 914 00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:00,880 you know how to make stuff and how to get it made. 915 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,360 So my experience is in business-to-business, 916 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,400 not business-to-consumer. 917 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,240 That's a very different market. 918 00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:11,120 But you can manufacture, you're an engineer. 919 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,520 Yes. But I would say, for me personally, 920 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,360 what would be of great value is, for example, big box distribution 921 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,000 to create those distribution networks to take our product... 922 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,760 That's interesting because you just said it was manufacturing, and... 923 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,240 I'm just trying to get to the... You've just changed... 924 00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:30,800 It's both. Manufacturing a consumer product at scale 925 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,920 is very different to manufacturing low-quantity bespoke products 926 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,720 for advanced engineering applications, 927 00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,080 which is where the expertise lies. 928 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,920 - OK. - So we've figured this out as we've gone along, so far. 929 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,520 And in terms of telling the story, 930 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,720 this is currently us wearing many hats, 931 00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:49,040 putting on a hat, thinking, 932 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,640 "Let's dabble with creating a video for social media," 933 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,880 but we are not marketing experts. 934 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,800 The whole mindset and know how 935 00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,200 of how to tell that story optimally on social media 936 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,160 is something we don't have. 937 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,480 The Dragons do. 938 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,560 So it's that... 939 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,680 You want that so badly that you've asked for £200,000 940 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:13,880 for 4% of the business. 941 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,920 We believe it's a fair valuation if you look at our financials. 942 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,000 The £750,000 in pre-orders, 943 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,680 the trajectory that we're on to deliver millions of revenue 944 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,080 in the coming years. 945 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,840 And more important than that, 946 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,840 you've actually got a run rate at the moment, 947 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,880 or at the moment you're selling around £30,000 a week, 948 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,200 so that does underpin some value. 949 00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,280 I'm just trying to... 950 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,920 I always have to feel that I understand 951 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:42,760 the reason somebody is here. 952 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,280 You're two smart guys. It's a really good product. 953 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,080 Erm... 954 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:49,680 I find it difficult to comprehend 955 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,640 some of the things that you say you're missing 956 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,720 because I'm not entirely convinced you are. 957 00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:58,800 And then you overlay that with quite a racy ask. 958 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,040 And I just... 959 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,760 I'm going to sit quietly and see if I can get those slots to work. 960 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,960 Martin and Tom, can I ask a few questions surrounding the product? 961 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,080 - Sure. - So I wonder if there is a wider wildlife benefit? 962 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,160 If a cat is denied entry if it has a rodent in its mouth, 963 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,080 does it teach the cat to not kill rodents? 964 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,640 - So we can't be sure of that. - Is there a benefit? 965 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,160 But there is some initial data that would suggest that there is. 966 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,520 I have to challenge that. What's the initial data? Where from? 967 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,480 So we've seen a steady reduction in the attempts... 968 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,320 You've seen. I'm looking for data. 969 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,760 So this is field data based on a deployment of 2,000... 970 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,240 Just observation. 971 00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:42,760 - Well... - Sorry, I had to challenge it because that's not initial data. 972 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,320 Sure. It is data analysis based on... I can... 973 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,560 There's an anecdote and then there's the data. 974 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:49,880 The anecdote is my cat, 975 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,280 who was bringing prey in three or four times a night. 976 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,080 After installing OnlyCat, after a few months, 977 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,560 that prey activity reduced to effect... 978 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,040 Or they're killing it over there and they're not bringing it in. 979 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,080 So there will be some of that. They will still continue to eat prey. 980 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,440 But we have seen a number of cases from our customers 981 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,280 where, by preventing the cat from being able to bring in the prey, 982 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,720 the prey has then managed to escape. 983 00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:16,560 So while we can't guarantee it, 984 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,120 it does increase the survival odds of prey 985 00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,400 if they're not permitted to come into the house. 986 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,400 Also, by sending instant alerts to the owners 987 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,200 that the cat has captured prey and is at the door, 988 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,440 that allows the owners to act and intervene and to save the prey. 989 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,680 Guys, I really commend you for what you have created. 990 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,360 I think you're both obviously very, very clever 991 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,320 and I definitely see scope for growth for this. 992 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,240 And I see success in the future for the two of you. 993 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:48,240 I think for me personally, 994 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,960 £200,000 for 4% of your business is a big ask, 995 00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,040 and for that kind of money, I would need to be very passionate 996 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:56,560 about that particular investment, 997 00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,520 and this is just not an area that I feel passion in. 998 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,560 So for that reason, I'm afraid I'm out. 999 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,560 But I wish you the best of luck for the future. 1000 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,400 - Thank you. - Thank you very much. - Completely understand. 1001 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:12,920 - Tom, Martin. - Yes. - Hi. - Hi. 1002 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,680 I take my hat off to you for the technology that you have. 1003 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,080 It's well thought through. 1004 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,480 You're both really investable as individuals, 1005 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,360 but I think you've got a very small opportunity 1006 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,680 at your price point and your point of entry. 1007 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,920 Very small. 1008 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,320 This is a product that's going to be not only specific 1009 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:33,840 to people that have cats, 1010 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,720 it's also specific to people that have got a lot of money. 1011 00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:39,240 So I'm going to wish you well on your way 1012 00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:42,000 and say that I'm not going to invest today and I'm out. 1013 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,520 Thank you. 1014 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:48,760 OK, let's... Let's... 1015 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,360 - Let us begin. - Let's get the party started. 1016 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,640 - Let's get the party started. - I'm ready to watch this. 1017 00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:00,200 Time is money and we've got some cat flaps to sell. Erm... 1018 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,480 I think you've both done really well. 1019 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,000 And I think you've got something really cool. 1020 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,680 Deborah asked you earlier why you were coming to the Den. 1021 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,480 To me, it was abundantly clear. 1022 00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:13,120 I look at this product and much of the game here is both to establish, 1023 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,760 I think, brand in market so that any sort of new market entrants 1024 00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,840 are held up by you being the dominant player, 1025 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,200 having the furthest reaching story. 1026 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,600 And so it's very much within my wheelhouse. 1027 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,720 I've spent the last sort of 12, 15 years of my life 1028 00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:31,600 understanding how to market products, 1029 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,440 from a DTC perspective. 1030 00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:36,920 So I'm going to make you an offer. 1031 00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:41,440 This is going to be a great offer. 1032 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,080 This is going to be a really great offer. 1033 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,120 - No, it's going to be a fantastic... - Are you excited? 1034 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,040 I am really excited. No, no, because... 1035 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,240 We're at the edge of our seats. 1036 00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:54,080 It's an unbelievable offer. You just wait for this one. 1037 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,760 Erm... 1038 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,000 - Drum roll, please. - Don't take all day. 1039 00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:02,680 You've asked for 200,000 for 4%. 1040 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,080 I'm going to offer you all of the money for... 1041 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,040 ..12.5% of the business. 1042 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:16,920 Wow. 1043 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:18,680 Yeah. Thank you very much. 1044 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,320 Look, you have got a very good offer. 1045 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,240 I mean, I wouldn't have offered... 1046 00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:28,600 To me, erm... 1047 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,960 ..there's a lot to do here. 1048 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,960 Because what you need is to create the reality 1049 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:39,040 to make this product accessible at the price point 1050 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,480 that you're going to knock the competition out, 1051 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,160 because somebody else is going to come along 1052 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,560 and make a version of this at a much lower price. 1053 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:53,920 I would definitely bring sourcing to the table 1054 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,360 and I would definitely bring that cost down for you. 1055 00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:01,280 So look, this is my offer. 1056 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,400 If another Dragon is willing to join me, 1057 00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,200 I would give you half the money... 1058 00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:14,400 ..that's £100,000 for 10%. 1059 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:15,440 Thank you. 1060 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:19,480 Guys, so... 1061 00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,000 ..I think it's a great product. 1062 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,080 You guys are clearly very smart 1063 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,440 and I actually think with some tweaking of price 1064 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,440 that you can bring yourself closer to the main market. 1065 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,800 Then I think you'd have an exponential change 1066 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,800 to your market potential size. 1067 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:39,840 Erm... 1068 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,280 I don't think Steven's offer... 1069 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,280 I think it's a good offer. I don't think it's a crazy good offer. 1070 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:48,720 We would agree. 1071 00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:52,320 Because I think that, you know, you clearly have shown 1072 00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,800 that you've got traction now, you know, and it should carry on up. 1073 00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,120 So I am going to make you an offer. 1074 00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,600 But I'm not going to make this easy. 1075 00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,200 I'm going to offer you... 1076 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:09,920 ..all the money... 1077 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,520 ..and I too want 12.5% of the business. 1078 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:19,480 I did say I didn't think... 1079 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,160 I said, yeah, I didn't think your offer was unreasonable. 1080 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:23,960 That's what I said. 1081 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,240 So thank you very much for the offers. 1082 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:40,720 We... 1083 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,600 ..are leaning towards going with Steven. 1084 00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:51,560 But we came here thinking that 10% is really our upper limit 1085 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,440 and we wouldn't be able to go... 1086 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,080 - Beyond that. - ..beyond that, yeah. 1087 00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,680 - So 10% is the limit? - 10% is the limit. - Yeah. 1088 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:06,160 Then you've got a deal. 1089 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,720 Well done. Thank you so much. Well done. 1090 00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,560 - Well done, guys. - Thank you so much. - Well done, guys. - Cheers. 1091 00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,400 The cats have got the cream. 1092 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:17,920 Well done, guys. 1093 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:23,160 Martin and Tom leave the Den with £200,000... 1094 00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:26,520 Let's do this! 1095 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,400 ..and the backing of a Dragon with the skill set 1096 00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,520 to supercharge their socials. 1097 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,480 I'm very familiar with a lot of the work that Steven has been doing. 1098 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,200 Working with him is going to be a pleasure. 1099 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,880 - Well done. - I told you it was a fantastic offer. 1100 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,520 Deborah, how do you feel about that? 1101 00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,400 Well, if it was anybody else, but, you know... 1102 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,120 LAUGHTER 1103 00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,320 - Ah! - That's so lovely! I've never seen you like this before! 1104 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,320 Don't trust me! I don't mean it! 1105 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,240 Next time... 1106 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,080 Tinie, good to see you, bro. I was shook when I knew you were coming 1107 00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,560 - cos I knew you'd out-dress me. - You know that was my whole MO. 1108 00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,720 Forget the investments, I was like, I need to out-dress this guy. 1109 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,840 Being really candid, I didn't find it that great. 1110 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,560 That's... That's not true, Peter. 1111 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,960 If your friends and family's money is already kind of down the hole, 1112 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,560 I'm sure mine will probably end up there as well. 1113 00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:27,320 - I would probably drive you guys crazy. - No comment. - No comment. 1114 00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,120 I think you're a gift to humanity. 1115 00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,360 - I really appreciate it. Thank you, sir. - Yeah.