# They tried to catch a falling star
# Thinking that she had gone too far... #
Melanie Chisholm came to fame in the 1990s as Sporty Spice -
one-fifth of the biggest-selling girl band of all time.
# I said Who do you think you are?
# Do you think you are?
# I said... #
I don't think anybody could have predicted
what happened with the Spice Girls.
We were so ambitious and so driven,
and we knew what we wanted to achieve.
# Move it, make it, who do you think you are? #
But I will never forget who I am and where I'm from.
The group became pop culture icons
and, today, Melanie has a huge following
as an award-winning solo performer.
I've always been a really determined person.
I've always been very disciplined, from a kid,
and I loved performing from such a young age.
I grew up in Widnes,
which is just outside Liverpool.
I would say I have a really working-class background.
My immediate family that I know and my grandparents,
everyone's a grafter.
I have a great relationship with both my mum and dad.
They divorced when I was very young and went on to remarry,
so I have half-siblings and step-siblings,
and so I just had this really full, complicated family life.
Melanie's parents still live in the North.
She now lives in London with her teenage daughter
and her dog Dolce.
I left home at 16,
which blows my mind.
I was going to performing arts college just outside London.
I knew what I wanted to do, so there was no option.
I had to go and get on with it.
As I've got older, I've become more curious about what came before me.
You know, why I am this person, how did I end up like this?
And just wondering if any of that is from the past and my relatives.
I know virtually nothing beyond my grandparents.
I do know there is an Irish connection,
so I'm really intrigued to see where that began.
I've always seen myself as a Scouser.
I think there are some rules to how Scouse you actually are.
Real hardcore Scousers wouldn't class me as a Scouser.
You know, maybe we'll figure out that I am a bit more Scouse
than everybody thinks.
So I'm excited about what we're going to discover.
Melanie is starting with her dad's side of the family,
so has invited her younger half-sister, Emma, 'round
to help her go through the family archive.
How are you? Good. Come on in.
Here's Dolce.
Although they didn't grow up together, they've become close.
Oh! That's little me.
Look at you. Yeah. So that's Kendal Drive.
I wonder how old I am there.
I reckon I must be about two.
Yeah, super young, cos that's where I lived
with my mum and our dad... Mm-hm. ..Joan and Alan. Yeah.
Do you remember them being together? Not at all. No.
I find it quite strange looking at pictures of Mum and Dad. Yeah.
I just have no memory of... Yeah. ..you know,
being with them both at the same time. No.
Oh, look.
Your lovely wedding day.
I love this picture. This was an amazing day.
I just think that cheesy smile of mine...
I just remember being really happy in that picture.
It was perfect. It was great.
And we blinked and now we've got teenagers.
Now, this is another wedding. Yeah. Obviously... Very different.
..a long, long time before. So this is nanny Kay. Yeah.
Dad's mum.
And I'm assuming that's Grandad...
Mm. ..because we didn't know him.
It's just so fascinating, isn't it,
when you look how different it was then? I know.
They look happy though, don't they? Yeah.
Ah. So, I remember this photo, actually.
I'm quite young there, aren't I? As a baby. Bit of a newborn. Yeah.
So that must have been in 1974.
And, looking at Nanny there...
..she didn't really change.
Obviously, I came in later on in life. Yeah.
But I just remember this amazing, like, strong,
like, matriarch, that everybody looked up to. Absolutely.
And she always looked, like, incredible.
I was petrified of her. EMMA LAUGHS
I was. Because, you know... I know she loved us all to bits... Yeah.
..but you just knew not to mess with her. Yeah.
And it would be really interesting to find out
why she was like that. Yeah.
Now, there's a picture in here.
This has been sent to Dad from his cousin.
So... Ooh. OK.
So, who could this be?
Definitely a family resemblance. Yeah.
Let's have a look.
"Mary Bilsborough, married to Thomas Bilsborough.
"Mother of Kay. 1942."
Yeah, you can definitely see Nanny Kay.
She looked like her mum, didn't she? Yeah.
So this is our great-grandmother.
Mary Bilsborough. Married to Thomas, our great-grandad.
You see, I... There's another name,
and I don't know where I've got this name from. O'Flaherty.
And I wonder whether that was her maiden name.
Maybe.
She looks like a strong woman, too, though, doesn't she? She does.
Another one you wouldn't mess with.
Mm. Why did we get so soft?
We need to toughen up.
Maybe it does filter down eventually.
Maybe we're going to be solid.
Mary Bilsborough.
Oh, I can't wait to find out about her. Yeah.
Melanie was close to her grandmother, Catherine Chisholm,
who she called "Nanny Kay".
She now knows that Nanny Kay's mother,
Melanie's great-grandmother, was Mary,
and that her great-grandfather was Thomas Bilsborough.
Yeah, it's quite iconic, isn't it? The old Runcorn Bridge.
To find out more about her formidable-looking grandmother,
Mary Bilsborough,
Melanie is heading to Liverpool,
where her family are from.
I've always been really proud of having heritage from Liverpool.
People from Liverpool are very proud,
very funny and very warm.
TANNOY:Ladies and gentlemen, we will shortly be arriving
at Liverpool Lime Street - next and final stop.
Every time I come into Liverpool
and I see that iconic skyline,
the Liver Building, I get butterflies in my tummy.
All of my history I know is in Liverpool.
I wonder how far back that goes.
I'm really excited to find out about Mary Bilsborough,
my great-grandmother.
Melanie's meeting historian Rebecca Probert at the Museum of Liverpool.
Nice to meet you. Lovely to meet you. I'm Melanie. Rebecca.
Nice to meet you, Rebecca. And you.
Would you like to come inside? I would love to.
This is my great-grandmother,
Mary Bilsborough.
That's her married name. Mm-hm.
My great-grandfather is Thomas.
And I know very little about this lady.
And I'd like to find out some more.
So, we have the 1911 census,
if you'd like to take a look at that.
Oh, you see, this is a name I recognise - "Flaherty".
Well, I know it as O'Flaherty,
but maybe it's just Flaherty.
Yes.
We do have a Mary.
OK.
So Mary, is that my great-grandmother? Yes.
But, "Nunnery"?
She's married. We know she's married, yes. OK.
I'm a little bit baffled...
..because I know her as Bilsborough.
Curious.
So, Patrick, head of the household. Yeah.
I need to work out who Patrick is.
He's my... Great-great-grandfather.
He's Mary's dad. Yeah.
So we've got six people but we've got three rooms.
So we can see from here, "10 Court".
This is what's known as court housing... OK.
..and it's very poor quality housing.
You know, there would be a shared outside toilet,
there would be a single tap, there'd be no hot water.
And I don't know if you've heard of Scotland Road...?
Scottie Road. Scottie Road.
It's quite a famous road in Liverpool. Yes.
So, this was an area where there was a lot of this housing? Yes.
And you can see, if you look at the jobs that they're doing...
So, Patrick is a dock labourer. Yeah.
And then the daughters.
So, Margaret is a fish...
What's that word?
Hawker. "Hawker"? What's a fish hawker.
Basically, they sell fish.
They hawk fish 'round the streets. Oh, wow.
And so, is this the same? Yeah.
Ditto. So they all do the same.
So Mary, my great-grandmother,
was also a fish hawker. Yeah.
I'm so confused
because, obviously, I have the picture of my great-grandmother
being Mary Bilsborough.
So, to have been married before
to a Nunnery, a Mr Nunnery,
I need to know more about that.
Well, this might help to explain more about Mr Nunnery.
This is the marriage certificate, yeah? It is, yes.
So, Mary and Joseph Nunnery.
He's 20. Mm-hm.
And this is in 1908. Yes.
Now, this census is 1911, a few years later,
and she's living with her dad. Yeah.
And there's no Mr Nunnery on the scene, it would seem.
OK.
I've spotted a Nunnery. Yes.
So, that's Joseph.
So, Regiment, Kings.
Is that Army? Yes. Right.
GASPS
"Date of trial"?! Yes.
So, this is a Court Martial document,
also 1908.
So, this is the same year that they got married. Yes.
I don't know if you can read that there. It's quite small.
Ah. Is it... How do you say that word? Desertion.
So this is a few weeks after they get married
that he's facing... Oh.
..a Court Martial for desertion.
84 days' imprisonment.
Yeah.
My great-grandmother Mary's first husband... Yes.
..Joseph Nunnery, deserted the Army to marry his beloved.
That's certainly one possibility. Right.
Well, that's quite romantic, isn't it?
But in 1911...
..on the census, he's not there. He's not living with them.
Where's he gone? So, Joseph is now in Karachi with his regiment.
"The Army and Navy Gazette.
"The Second Battalion has arrived in Karachi."
So, whereabouts in the world is this Karachi?
So, at the time, it was in India. OK.
It's in modern-day Pakistan. Right.
1908, he was imprisoned for desertion... Yeah.
..but by 1909,
he's now back in the Forces... Mm-hm.
..in Karachi. Yeah.
So, Mary and Joseph haven't really had much opportunity
to have a married life together. They haven't.
And I should imagine that Mary had...
She's so young, she's 23, and...
..falling in love with somebody that spent some time imprisoned
because of desertion,
and then he's off again
and, you know, Mary, at this point, I'm assuming, has no children,
hasn't had the opportunity... She hasn't had the chance!
..to have any children. So, what happens next?
This might give you a clue.
Is this a birth certificate? It is. Right. Yes.
So...
..1914...
Oh, I've spotted a Bilsborough.
Yes. Susannah, is that? Susannah, yeah.
So, Mary has had a little girl.
Her name does have the name of my great-grandfather, Bilsborough,
but not Nunnery.
There's a gap.
There's no name of the father.
Thomas Bilsborough isn't on the birth certificate
and my great-grandmother is still Mary Nunnery.
Now we're in 1915,
another girl comes along,
Mary, another Bilsborough... Mm-hm.
But, again... But, again, no father is mentioned.
1917, we have a boy.
He's John...
..and no father again.
She's having children with my great-grandfather,
Thomas Bilsborough,
and she's married to Mr Nunnery.
This is wild.
Yeah. I mean, it's rare.
You've got about 4% of children
born outside marriage at this time. Really?!
We have this interesting little marginal note added on here.
"Parents now married." Yeah. Right.
Mary and Thomas are now married
after having three children together outside marriage.
So, would she have been divorced, then, from her first husband?
Divorce was really difficult at this stage. Goodness me.
Let me show you the next document and put your...
..put your mind at rest... This is amazing.
..about the status of their marriage.
Ah, this is burials.
So...
Joseph Nunnery. Yes.
So, he's passed. Yeah.
And this is in 1918. Yeah. Ah, so is he...
Has he died in combat? Erm...
No. Pneumonia. Pneumonia.
Wow.
And we know from the marginal note that the marriage to Thomas,
your great-grandfather,
took place after Joseph had died.
So she only married him when she could do so legally. Right.
I can't help feeling, like, really sorry for Mary
because, I don't know, like, with her first marriage,
maybe it was...
Just, obviously, it wasn't what she expected it to be.
And then she met my great-grandfather, Thomas,
who loves her, and they've had three children,
and now they're married. Yes.
So, then we can learn a little bit
about Mary and Thomas'
subsequent life together
because they go on to have more children.
There is nine altogether. "Nine"?!
Wow. That is a lot.
So all of the children are my great-grandfather's? Yes.
She was kind of just always pregnant. She would have been, yes.
Can you imagine? Nine children.
That puts me to shame.
I can only handle one.
Goodness me.
And I should imagine, unless something extraordinary
has happened, it's still pretty difficult living conditions.
So we can pick your great-grandmother up
in the 1939 register.
So there's my great-granny, Mary.
And this is my nan. Yes.
This is Nanny Kay.
Catherine Chisholm, that's her married name. Mm-hm.
We've got Bilsborough crossed out.
So she wouldn't have been Chisholm at that point, but it gets...
It goes later on? OK. She would only have been 16.
So, she's there with her mum, who's Mary.
But if we look at the jobs that they're doing.
So your grandmother is a...
Does that say, "Cloth sorter"? ..cloth sorter, yeah. OK.
And Mary, your great-grandmother...
Is a moneylender.
A moneylender?
That's a little bit confusing,
because I'm imagining that there isn't much money about,
so if you don't have a lot of money, how do you lend it to people?
That's a very good question.
My great-grandmother, Mary,
is listed as being a moneylender...
..and I really don't know what that means.
I think, in today's terms, I imagine some big, burly guy
turning up at your door, you know, battering your door down
to get the money back...
..and that was what my great-grandmother was doing,
so I need to find out how that worked in those days.
Melanie is meeting local historian Pat Ayres
at Liverpool's Central Library.
Hiya. Hiya. I'm Melanie. I'm Pat.
Nice to meet you. Come with me. I will.
Lovely. Thank you.
I've been finding out all about my great-grandmother, Mary.
In 1939, I know she's a moneylender.
She's living with my nan, Catherine, who's a cloth sorter.
Have you any idea what a cloth sorter actually did? I have no idea.
It was the worst of the worst jobs in Liverpool.
No way. Yeah. Why?
It was entirely women's work.
They would be presented with these hundredweight bales,
they'd sit on the floor to sort it,
and it was filthy dirty.
The atmosphere that they worked in was appalling.
It was hot, it was damp,
it was foul-smelling.
If I remember correctly, after looking at the documents,
I think she was 16 when she was doing this job,
so she was just a child, really. Yeah, yeah.
As my nan got older,
she had some issues with her lungs
and I wonder if that stems back to those days. Absolutely.
I mean, so many of those women suffered poor health
while they were doing it.
It's filthy work.
It's really, really low paid.
The whole family is living in exceptionally poor circumstances.
Gosh. You know, they had to be for her to be engaged in that work.
This is what confuses me about my great-grandmother
being a moneylender.
If you're lending money, you must have it to lend,
so she's working for somebody else,
I'm assuming.
No, no, no, she'll have been working for herself. OK.
It wasn't that hard to set up as a moneylender
if you could set aside some margin
over your subsistence needs.
So if they were independent-minded,
women would try to do something on their own account.
It's interesting, you know, just thinking about...
..some of my own traits.
Like, why am I so determined or so driven, so independent? Yeah.
And it's, like...
It sounds like I come from a long line of these women.
Of feisty women. Really? Yeah.
If you were engaged in the business that your great-grandmother
was engaged in, then you had to be really savvy, on top of things.
I mean, she's probably a matriarch of the first order.
I can imagine. Yeah. Formidable.
But my nan was like that, too.
Yeah? Yeah, absolutely formidable.
And...
..the interest that was charged on the loans
that moneylenders made out was actually quite high.
It was something like 400%.
That seems a lot.
So although they're only lending small sums out,
quite quickly, it could become a profitable business.
Provided everybody paid you back. But...
But then I just wonder, you know,
what lengths would she have had to have gone to
sometimes to get that money back?
There's a document here that might be really helpful... OK.
..in giving you an insight.
"Moneylenders Bill."
There's a debate in Parliament going on
around the issue of moneylending in Liverpool. OK.
"Three years ago,
"a report found that, in 1924,
"there were 1,380 registered moneylenders in that area,
"of whom over 1,100 were women."
Yeah. OK.
I'm getting a real picture of what this is now,
because none of these people are wealthy... No.
..by any stretch of the imagination.
Everyone's living hand-to-mouth,
but there are certain people in the community, they've worked,
they've put a little bit aside,
and they're able to, you know, have this as a business.
Yeah. So why, then...
I mean, we'll read a little bit more,
but for this to become an issue
that's being debated in Parliament
suggests that there are some concerns about it.
OK, so, "All the women cater for the borrowers of small sums,
"often charging exorbitant rates of interest,
"and many of them act as terrible bullies to their clients."
Oh.
I don't want to think of my great-grandma as a bully.
I'd painted a really lovely picture of her really helping the community,
but of course there's, you know,
there's going to be people who aren't going to pay,
and if you've got to get your money back,
you've got to get it back, haven't you? So, yeah...
"They also report that many women borrow without
"their husbands' knowledge
"and live in constant terror
"of exposure by rapacious moneylenders."
Oh, my goodness.
"We have known of many lives which are full of misery
"due entirely to the habit of recourse to moneylenders."
That's quite a tough read.
It's pretty awful.
So, what would this mean for my great-grandmother, Mary?
So, this 1927 Moneylenders Bill then lays down a new law
that says that everybody has to be licensed. Mm-hm.
Holding a licence gives someone public credibility of some sort.
If your great-grandmother had wanted to be licensed,
then she would have to stand up in open court and defend her character.
So, they didn't make it easy? Oh, far from. No.
To find out whether her great-grandmother, Mary,
was operating her business legally,
Melanie is searching a register of moneylenders from 1939.
Here it is - the register.
Let's have a look.
These aren't any names...
..that I recognise.
So now we're heading into...
We're in July now.
I'm seeing names, but then...
..not her name. Scotland Road again.
I'm starting to get a bit of a feeling I'm not going to find it.
SHE GASPS There she is.
Mary Bilsborough.
I knew it would jump out to me.
This is in July.
6th of July, 1939.
Her registration is granted.
So she did it.
Oh, God, I'm such an emotional wreck.
She did it.
She stood up...
..in front of people, proved her character...
..in probably very intimidating circumstances,
and she got her registration.
That actually makes me feel very proud.
I am a rule abider,
I'm not a rule breaker,
and that's just funny that she did it by the book.
And I always like to do things by the book.
So, I do have something else that you might like to see. OK.
So, Bilsborough...
Oh, OK.
So, this is deaths?
Yes.
And she died 13th of October, 1973.
Yeah.
And this is her probate.
That looks like quite a lot of money, that.
In today's terms, that would be more than £46,000.
Oh, my goodness.
From what she's come from... It's remarkable.
Wow!
She saw many things in her life,
lived through lots of tough times,
and, yeah, came out on top.
Girl power. Feisty girl power. THEY LAUGH
I have learnt so much about my great-grandmother, Mary.
I actually feel really close to her even though I never met her.
She came from nothing.
She was a completely self-made woman.
She kind of, against the odds,
achieved something
that was really difficult for any woman in her position.
I know that my great-grandmother's maiden name was Flaherty
and I was convinced I had some Irish roots.
I'm still very intrigued.
Melanie discovered in the 1911 census that Mary's father,
her great-great-grandfather,
was Patrick Flaherty,
a dock labourer in Liverpool.
She's meeting genealogist Rachel Rick
to see if she can push this line further back, to Ireland.
Hiya. How are you? Lovely to meet you. I'm Melanie. I'm Rachel.
I've been finding out so much I didn't know
about my great-grandmother, Mary Bilsborough. Yeah.
Now, that was her married name. Yeah.
I saw on some records yesterday "Flaherty".
I'm not quite sure of the pronunciation
but I'm really intrigued to know where that comes from. OK.
I can tell you a little bit more. Fantastic.
Ooh, OK. Yeah?
That's my dad, then Nanny Kay,
my great-grandmother, Mary Flaherty, maiden name -
Bilsborough, married name.
She was born in Liverpool.
Then we go back to her father, Patrick Flaherty,
also born in Liverpool. Yeah.
His dad was also called Patrick Flaherty
and he was born in Ireland.
I knew it! RACHEL LAUGHS
I knew there was some Irish in me.
Erm, yeah, this is so interesting.
I think what's surprised me the most so far
is how far back my family go in Liverpool. Yeah.
You know, because I knew there was an Irish connection,
but I thought it came sooner.
So it's my great-great-great-grandparents.
Yeah. Yeah.
Great-great-great-grandparents that were Irish.
Wow. Oh, yeah, this is getting more and more exciting.
THEY LAUGH
So, do we know anything else about Patrick and Catherine?
Well, records in Ireland are...patchy.
We don't have any information about the birth or marriage
of either of your great-great-great-grandparents,
but we have got a record that you might like to see.
Yes. Show me.
OK. So this is...
Is that 1846?
It is, yeah. OK.
This was...
Yeah, I'm really struggling to see it. It's OK.
We've got a transcript. Oh, OK.
This is a baptism in the parish of Croom. Yeah.
"Maria Patritus Flaherty."
So, Maria, is she their first-born?
That's right. OK.
Where's Croom?
Croom is in Limerick.
Limerick?! Yeah.
Oh, my goodness.
I love the kind of... ..the legend of families,
because I was always told it was Dublin
where our relatives came from. Wow.
THEY LAUGH
"Carhue."
Somewhere else I haven't heard of. Where is that?
So Carhue is just outside Croom.
It's in Limerick. Oh, I need to, erm...
I need to go and see these places for myself.
I think you do. Yeah.
Melanie has discovered that her great-great-great-grandparents,
Patrick Flaherty and Catherine Byrnes, were Irish.
Their son, Melanie's great-great-grandfather,
also called Patrick,
was born in Liverpool in 1861.
But a baptism record, for his older sister Maria,
reveals the family were from County Limerick in Ireland.
I've been to Ireland quite a few times over the years
but I've never been to County Limerick.
Looking around, I can imagine it's quite a wonderful place to live -
it's beautiful, idyllic, rural -
so my three-times-great-grandparents,
Patrick and Catherine, must have had a really good reason to leave
and I want to find out what that was.
Melanie has come to St Mary's Roman Catholic Church in Croom,
where her great-great-great-grandparents'
first child, Maria, was baptised.
She's meeting local historian Katrina Crowe.
Hi. I'm Melanie. Nice to meet you.
Hi, Melanie. I'm Katrina, and you're very welcome to Croom.
If you'd like to make your way inside. I would. Let's go.
Wow.
So peaceful.
OK, so, if you'd like to have a look at this. Yes.
"County of Limerick.
"Parish of Croom."
And there's Carhue, where Patrick and Catherine lived.
What is this document?
It's a record called a tenure book,
which was used for property valuation. Mm-hm.
OK, so we've got Patrick Flaherty,
my three-times-great-grandfather.
He's the occupier.
So I'm thinking this is his landlord. Reverend Trench?
OK.
And I've noticed up here - "Content of farm."
So they are farmers
and they're renting.
He's renting a house
and ten acres of land.
What was his life like as a farmer of that much land?
With ten acres, he's classed as being a small farmer.
And at the time that your great-great-great-grandparents,
Patrick and Catherine, are starting their family,
this is when we're heading into the Famine.
The Famine starts in 1845
and their first child is born in 1846.
OK, so that was the toughest time... Absolutely. ..here in Ireland.
It's regarded as a watershed moment in Irish history
in terms of changing its population
but changing its whole economy and its society.
In the 1840s, Melanie's family,
like most of Ireland's population,
depended on potatoes for their daily food.
But in 1845, the potato crop was devastated by blight,
a fungal disease, leading to what is now known as the Great Famine.
Millions were left vulnerable to sickness and starvation.
That must have been pretty terrifying times.
Yeah. The west of Ireland and the south of Ireland were the worst hit.
So this is from about 100 years after the Famine. Yeah.
It's collected folklore.
So this would have been reflecting back to this time? Yes.
"The blight extended over three years here in Croom.
"The deaths in my native place were many and horrible.
"The poor, famine-stricken people were found by the wayside.
"Emaciated corpses...
SHE SIGHS
"..partly green from eating docks and nettles,
"and partly blue from cholera and dysentery."
Catherine and Patrick would be seeing friends,
family, loved ones,
their community dying around them in really horrible circumstances.
Yeah, that's...that's a lot.
That's a lot to take in.
Amid the desperate situation...
..many landowners chose to evict their tenants,
sell their land
or change how it was used.
Hundreds of thousands of families
lost their livelihoods
and their homes.
So this is an advertisement from the Limerick Chronicle in 1847.
OK. So, "Carhue, situate ten miles from Limerick
"and one of Croom,
"it contains 168 acres.
"Terms of sale can be obtained on application to the Reverend Trench."
So, he was Patrick's landlord.
So, basically, he's selling the farm where they lived. Mm-hm.
Frederick Trench is losing money.
Some landlords are going into debt and risking bankruptcy,
so, for him, it's really...
It's an asset. It's business.
It's business. Exactly.
There he was, Patrick, with a young family, losing everything.
It's breaking point.
This is the last record to show you.
SHE EXHALES OK.
We have this as well.
So this is a baptism.
1848 - we're still in the Famine.
So, Margaret... Their second daughter? Yeah.
Oh, they've moved. Mm-hm.
Parish of St Michael's, Limerick City.
In the summer of 1848,
Patrick and his family leave Carhue.
So I think the next part of this for me
is going to Limerick
and seeing if I can find out
what was waiting for them there.
Everything I've just found out is pretty hard to get your head around.
The Great Famine, here in Ireland,
we know it was a huge part of history that changed the country.
But having relatives and feeling that closeness to these people,
even though I never knew them,
that connection and hearing the reality of it,
and kind of putting yourself in their shoes,
it's...it's shocking.
Melanie is retracing the steps of her three-times-great-grandparents
and travelling to Limerick City.
She's meeting Famine historian Paul O'Brien
in the area where the family lived.
Hi. Good morning, Melanie. I'm Paul. Nice to meet you.
Welcome to Limerick. How are you? Thank you. I'm good.
After yourself, please. Thank you.
I know my three-times-great-grandparents,
Catherine and Patrick, ended up here,
and I'm just wondering if things are any better.
They're in a new context. They've come from the country,
they're country people, and they're now in the city.
So, the family are considered to be landless labourers.
Really, the lowest of the low in terms of the social hierarchy.
They have nothing.
Would there have been a lot of the countryside people
coming into the city? Absolutely.
So, people came from all around, all feeding into Limerick,
because Limerick is a port. Right.
A very busy port at the time.
And a further indication of the family's time in Limerick.
Can you read the names? Does that say "John"? That says "John".
Patrick and Catherine.
OK, so, is this their first boy? This is her first boy.
So they've got two daughters already. Two daughters indeed.
And now they've got a little boy.
So there's three children now.
So, at this point, I'm assuming it's more and more pressure. It sure is.
Thousands of desperate families, including Melanie's,
fled to urban areas like Limerick City.
Living in squalid housing and with not enough work to go round,
many families faced even harsher conditions than in the countryside.
Imagine you're there, hoping and wanting this work,
probably with hundreds of people,
right, all going for the same work?
Yeah, thousands of people. Wow.
When they had their own farm.
Indeed. And lost it all.
Limerick City, at this stage,
it would have been a terrible place
if you were on that lower rung of the ladder. Mm-hm.
In many cases, you would not know where your next meal
was coming from.
Over one million people died during the Great Famine in Ireland
and as many as two million fled the country,
mainly to America, Australia and Britain.
So we know what happens to the family next from this.
Another boy.
Edmund.
1855.
Oh, here we go. "Liverpool."
So, we're no longer in Ireland.
We're no longer in Ireland.
They have hit the final straw.
They can't go on. Liverpool, I suppose, as well,
it's a sort of promised land.
By the end of the Famine, nearly 400,000 Irish people
are living in Liverpool, so I guess there's a community there. Mm-hm.
However...
Oh... Oh, my goodness.
They lose Edmund.
Oh, gosh. How sad.
He's died at eight months old.
And they travelled to Liverpool, the promised land... Absolutely.
..and they lose a child.
Oh.
"Bronchitis." After everything they've been through.
That pain, for any parent to lose a child.
You just wonder, don't you, how people...
..how people carry on when they're just faced, constantly,
there's just something else, another obstacle.
Yeah.
So, I've a little more for you to consider.
So, it's a baptism.
So, I have a transcription for you. Right.
So, we have a baptism at St Anthony's.
So I'm assuming this is in Liverpool, right?
They've had another son.
Yes. Patrick.
So this is... This is my great-great-grandfather. Indeed. OK.
There he is.
So, your direct line. Patrick.
Finding out so much more about the history of our family
here in Ireland, it just makes so much sense
to how my grandmother
and my great-grandmother were so stoic
and strong and resilient.
My three-times-great-grandparents, Catherine and Patrick,
had had the worst hardships that you could imagine,
and it just totally makes sense that the family
have gone on to be really tough.
I know without my family fighting for their own survival
through the generations,
I wouldn't be here at all.
Having discovered how her dad's family ended up in Liverpool,
Melanie now wants to find out how far back
her roots in the city go on her mum Joan's side.
To help her, she's meeting genealogist Rachel King.
Hiya. Hiya. I'm Rachel. Nice to meet you, Rachel.
Do you want to come through? Yeah, let's do it.
I've been finding out a lot about my family
and there's a lot of Liverpool, but there's a little bit
of a question mark when it comes to my mum's side. OK.
What can you tell me? First up...
RACHEL LAUGHS
A family tree.
Right. Oh, I see lots... MELANIE LAUGHS
There's so much Liverpool!
Erm... Keep looking, that's all I'm going to say. Yes.
So, there's Mum, my grandparents, Vincent and Alice,
and then my great-grandparents, Thomas and Eliza.
We go off in two directions.
I'm seeing lots of Liverpool on this side... Yeah.
..but on this side we've got Eliza, my great-grandmother,
her mum and dad were born in Liverpool.
Then Margaret Venn, her dad was from Liverpool.
But... Aha, bingo.
Devon!
Rebecca Keef, she's from Plymouth.
That is the most surprising thing to me.
With my family, obviously, lots of Liverpool... Yeah.
..but the south of England is a bit of a surprise. Yeah.
And then we go even further back to Thomas Keef
and his wife Rebecca Widgery.
They were both Devon. Yeah. OK.
Do we know anything about my southern ancestry?
Thomas is quite an interesting chap. Ooh, is he?!
So let me work out who...
This relationship.
So, Thomas is my four-times... Yeah. ..great-grandfather.
Great-great-great-great-grandfather. OK.
So we're going back to the early 1800s now. Yep.
OK, there he is, at the top.
He's born in October 1818.
So what this document is is an application register
for the Greenwich Hospital School. OK.
And if we look at this side...
"Residence."
I can't quite read that. What does it say?
It says, "Workhouse." Oh!
Oh, goodness.
So Thomas was living in a workhouse. Yeah.
So, at this point... Do we know how old he is here?
Erm, so this is 1828. 1828?
So he's... He was ten when he was applying to go to this school. OK.
I mean, I don't know if I'm jumping to conclusions. Is he an orphan?
Yeah. And he's lost both parents?
So, he's an orphan by eight.
Yeah.
Aw.
Oh, and then he just ends up somewhere I imagine is horrific.
Yeah.
So, obviously, he's trying to get out.
And did he make it to the school?
He didn't actually get in. OK.
Oh, poor boy.
So he's an adult the next time we pick him up, on the 1851 census.
OK.
And we can see there, Thomas...
Your great-great-great-great-grandfather.
He's the head of the household. OK.
But he's no longer in a workhouse.
He's got an actual address. So, he's the head of the household
and he has a wife, Rebecca, and...
..one, two, three daughters. Yep.
Rebecca, Mary and Elizabeth.
So, he's 35...
Mm-hm.
..and this is his occupation.
He's a baker.
So his outlook probably was quite bleak,
he didn't get an education, which he tried to do,
but he's ended up with a profession. Yep.
But there's more. OK. Good.
Good, good, good. Hit me.
So the Western Daily Press,
this is October...
..1858.
So, this is what we're interested in.
"Insurance notices.
"London and Provincial Provident Society."
This is effectively an advertisement... Mm-hm.
..selling insurance.
OK.
"Bristol District.
"Mr Thomas Keef..."
Manager?
He was a baker.
Now he is a manager...
..at an insurance company.
That's quite a leap, isn't it? Yeah.
It's a very, very different career.
I wonder why he changed so dramatically.
He's also not in Devon any more
because his address here is actually in Bristol.
He's had a move as well, to Bristol.
Why?!
Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
That is really puzzling, isn't it?
My mind is literally leaping all over the place,
all the things that it could be.
To answer her questions about
her four-times-great-grandfather's surprising career change,
Melanie has travelled to Bristol
to meet with insurance historian James Neal.
Hello. Hello. I'm James. It's lovely to meet you.
Nice to meet you. Shall we go inside? Let's do it.
I've been finding out about my four-times-great-grandfather,
Thomas Keef.
I think 1858, we pick him up here in Bristol
and he is working in insurance. Mm-hm.
But seven years prior to that, he's a baker. Right.
But it's... You know, I just keep going back to his beginnings,
and it is... He's really done well for himself. Absolutely.
Insurance was... It was a, kind of, a big
and aspirational industry at this point, so it was really growing.
These companies were looking for people who could sell
life insurance policies - because that's what it is, life insurance -
to ordinary people, and he's a baker.
He knows lots of ordinary people, he might be good at selling things,
he is probably also good with money.
And by the time he comes here, of course,
he's become the manager of the company.
So he'd worked his way up?
Absolutely. He's certainly risen quite a long way
from where he started. Yeah.
And I think he's really part of that aspiring middle class,
lower middle class, perhaps,
although things do become a little complicated.
If we turn to this from the local paper.
Yeah. So we've got the Bristol Daily Post
and this is July 1860.
"Bristol Police Court."
Yep. Eek! OK.
SHE GASPS
"Mr Keefe charged with embezzlement."
No.
"Mr Thomas Daniel Keefe of 3, Clifton-place,
"was brought up on a warrant,
"charged with having embezzled £2, 11 shillings."
Today, that's probably £200 or more,
so it's not a small sum... Yeah. ..to be accused of stealing.
Wow.
SHE GASPS
I need to read on. I need to get to the bottom of this.
"Mr Moat said defendant had been agent of the Society for Bristol."
So he's no longer managing this district. That's right.
It sounds like he's lost his job.
Oh.
"It was his duty to receive premiums from insurers
"and to pay medical fees for the examination of such."
So he would have been dealing in cash... Yeah.
..and, as the manager, he had to make sure that the agents
brought in money from people's premiums,
and from that money he would also have paid a doctor
to examine the policyholder, because you didn't want to insure somebody
who turned out to have consumption or be an alcoholic and not live
very long, cos the company would lose lots of money that way.
"He, Mr M, had ascertained that the doctor
"had not been paid these fees.
"Consequently, Mr Keefe must have put the money into his own pocket."
Wow. We need to know the outcome of this case.
It's gripping.
So, Mr Keef, here...
"The medical fees have been allowed to go on
"and I have paid them in a lump.
"The case is trumped up to ruin my character."
I literally... I can see it all now.
"Mr Bryce - 'Never mind your character.' Laughter.
"'Let us look at the facts.'"
I mean, there is some serious bad blood in this room, isn't there?
Absolutely. Accusations flying backwards and forwards. Yeah.
Because life insurance also, earlier in the century,
had a really bad reputation for fraud.
He's being publicly accused of something
to protect their reputation.
OK, so we think maybe the business is in trouble.
It's like he's been set up. Yeah. Basically. Exactly.
"The case was then adjourned for a fortnight,
"the defendant being admitted to bail."
They need to adjourn it to find out
whether they can find evidence
to clarify, one way or another, whether he did embezzle this money.
There's a lot resting on it. He is out of a job with these people.
Yeah. No income. Yeah.
And if he's an innocent man. Yeah.
Please tell me you know what happens next.
I do have something else I can show you. Yeah? And it's over here.
Over there? That machine there, yes. It's a microfilm reader.
Really?! Come on, then. Let's have a look. Yeah, I've got to see this.
Oh, my goodness.
I'm feeling quite anxious.
Where are we looking?
"Western Daily Press."
It's now July 1863. Mm-hm.
Lots of teeny, tiny writing.
Ah!
"Trial of local insurance case.
"The case of Keef versus the London and Provincial Provident Society
"was heard before a special jury.
"Sergeant Parry, on behalf of defendants, said his side
"would assent to a verdict against them
"of £100 and costs,
"along with an apology...
"..to Mr Keef, withdrawing all charges against him."
He was an innocent man... He was. ..all along.
"Mr Keef is now residing at Liverpool..."
OK!
"..where he acts for the United Kingdom Insurance Society."
This is 1863. That's right.
This is like... Three years passed, this has happened.
And, thank goodness, he's obviously gone on,
he's made a big move. Right.
But at least he's still been able to work in that industry
that he knows so well. Absolutely.
So even though they've tried to ruin him, they haven't.
To find out about
her four-times-great-grandfather's new life,
Melanie has come back to Liverpool to meet historian Ian Cawood.
Hello, there. Hello, Melanie. Welcome to Liverpool.
Thank you so much. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too.
I know my four-times-great-grandfather,
Thomas, has moved up here to Liverpool
and I really want to know why.
Well, it's a bit unclear exactly why.
It's probably fairly likely he came here
because there was an opportunity.
Because he becomes a Superintendent.
It's possible, of course, as well, that he was trying to get
as far away from Bristol, where his name was a little tarnished. Yes.
Best to move away. Yes. But a fresh start and an opportunity.
I've got this document here which demonstrates
that he was doing more than just insurance. OK.
So is this an old newspaper, the Liverpool Mercury? Yeah.
We don't have that any more, do we? No, no.
"The Permissive Bill Movement. On Saturday afternoon
"an open air meeting in support of the Permissive Prohibitory
"Liquor Bill was held in front of St George's Hall."
Right where we are. Right here. Right here.
"There was a large crowd,
"probably 1,000 persons present."
"Mr T.D. O'Keefe..." O'Keefe. "..presided." Mm.
I know him as Thomas Keef. Yes.
He's become O'Keefe? He's become O'Keefe.
We're not entirely sure why that is.
We don't know if he changed his name
to distance himself from the scandal,
or he may just simply have adopted the term
to fit in more with people in Liverpool, with his community. OK.
So he's here, on these steps... Yeah. ..right there.
How many times I've come into town and done my shopping,
I've performed at the Empire... Wow.
..literally across the way, not knowing...
Your great-great-great-great-grandfather
spoke to 1,000 people.
He entertained a crowd. Slightly different type of crowd, but...
I'm actually quite overwhelmed
just at the idea of that.
That's crazy. It is.
There's a big meeting supporting what, from my knowledge... Yeah.
..and my guessing is,
it's anti-alcohol. Anti-drink.
He's in charge of this meeting and he's presiding over it.
So, "The chairman...", so this is Thomas,
"..in opening the meeting said they were met to support the bill.
"If the barley, he said, which was consumed for making
"intoxicating liquor was thrown into the Mersey,
"we might feel aggrieved at such a waste.
"But it was worse than that
"for it was turned on the country like a stream of liquid fire."
Isn't that brilliant? It is.
He was a hell of an orator.
"A stream of liquid fire."
He's basically, you know, saying,
this is a conspiracy... Yes.
..against you, the working man,
and he's using language like that.
I love this guy. He's brilliant.
He's saying this is something that we need to fight back against. Yes.
Did the bill go through?
I'm afraid not, I'm afraid not.
Erm, it wasn't successful. Right.
But I think the most important thing for O'Keefe was, you know,
it helps to establish your great-great-great-great-grandfather
as somebody who's, you know, a major player in local politics.
If you would like to come inside,
there's a few more documents I can show you. Great.
This reveals what else he was involved in.
OK. So this is the Bee-Hive.
It's a trade union magazine,
so it's a working class publication. OK.
And this is now 1866. Yeah.
"The Liverpool Reform League."
So, "On Monday evening, the burgesses of Lime-street
"and St Anne's Wards held a meeting to promote the Reform movement."
OK, so what's this about?
They're campaigning to have the number of people able to vote
significantly increased.
So, who is able to vote at this time?
We're talking at the moment about only 20% of adult males. 20%?
20%. That's tiny. It is tiny. Isn't it?
I mean, 20% is, in a sense, the representation of,
if you like, the elite.
A lot of people who paid rates or paid taxes,
like your great-great-great-great-grandfather
wouldn't be allowed to vote.
This is something we completely take for granted now, isn't it?
You know, obviously, women haven't got the vote yet.
This is, you know, pre the suffragettes. Yeah.
Erm, but, wow, to think working men... Yeah.
..paying taxes... Yeah. ..couldn't have their vote. Yeah.
"The third resolution was proposed by Mr T.D. O'Keefe.
"This meeting expresses its cordial approval
"of the extension of the elective franchise
"to all householders and lodgers
"for the relief of the poor and vote by ballot..." Mm.
"..and hereby pledges itself
"to promote in every legitimate way
"the attainment of that object."
He is fighting, isn't he?
He is fighting for equality,
for people to have this vote,
to be able to do it anonymously. Yes.
To be able to speak up and be heard.
"For the relief of the poor."
Remember where O'Keefe started.
Absolutely.
And he wants better for all, it would seem.
And he's willing to speak up for that.
And to have somebody like, you know,
your great-great-great-great-grandfather
actually standing there,
that articulate, self...you know...motivated,
determined, working man,
who, in a sense, you know,
Britain had built its great, great wealth on.
He's living proof of what can be achieved. Living proof. Absolutely.
So, how soon after this did things start to change? Very, very quickly.
1867, the next year,
the Second Reform Act is passed,
and guess what, all adult male householders get the vote. Wow.
And my four-times-great-grandfather was a part of that. Yeah.
And the secret ballot is introduced four years after that.
Wow. That's amazing. Yeah.
My four-times-great-grandfather, Thomas O'Keefe,
I truly feel like he was a good, upstanding man,
who had suffered in his life.
He had a very difficult start,
became an orphan by the age of eight, was in the workhouse,
but also achieved.
And it feels like he wanted that for other people.
I see Liverpool in a very different light now.
I've grown up coming into the city,
and little did I know
that so much of the lives before me
were also being played out in these streets.
And... I'm going to get really emotional talking about it, but...
..with both sides of the family, the Flahertys came from Limerick
and O'Keefes from Devon,
Liverpool's been hope,
it's been refuge,
it's been reinvention.
They've overcome so much against the odds at times.
They've been hard-working, they've stood up for themselves,
they've stood up for what they believe in,
and I like to think that I have some of that in me, too.