[narrator] a brutal crime in an unlikely place...
A nurse at the assisted living facility discovered her.
[bill] she was in a very bad shape.
She had been stabbed multiple times.
[gail] the worst I've seen.
I've never experienced anything like this.
[narrator] investigators consider
Whether the threat came from inside...
The door was actually locked when the nurse came in,
So somebody had a key.
[narrator] but a tip shines light on
A more intimate betrayal.
[bill] they used 90 plus thousand dollars on stuff
Instead of payin' the bills.
[narrator] the list of offenders and betrayals
Continues to grow.
It stunned me. How do you do that?
[narrator] but who will lead investigators
To the mastermind?
[gail] it was terrifying.
If these people were capable of doing this,
Anybody could be capable of anything.
[theme music]
[narrator] at 5 a.M. On October 25, 1996,
A 911 call comes into
The peoria, arizona police department
From the camelot care assisted living facility.
While calls from the facility are not uncommon,
The nature of this one is definitely unusual.
[bill] they were advising that they had
A resident that had been stabbed,
But there was not a lot of details.
Obviously, officers responded quickly.
A nurse went into her client's room and discovered her client
Was severely, severely injured and was bleeding.
[narrator] the nurse identifies the victim as
53-year-old mary "lynne" carlson.
When first responders arrive, they find lynne still alive,
But just barely.
Lynne was in very bad shape.
She had been stabbed multiple times.
The main thing is, is to try to get her out
And keep her heart movin'.
Life is gonna be the number one priority.
[narrator] paramedics load lynne into an ambulance,
And patrol officers call for detectives.
[bill] while I was en route to the scene,
I was advised that she was en route to the hospital.
I'm thinking that this is a very odd place
For an attack like this to happen.
It's at a residential assisted living care facility.
There's nurses that make rounds,
Usually there's, there's traffic,
Foot traffic goin' around.
[cleve] lynn had multiple sclerosis,
And she wasn't able to care for herself.
[karen] she was in a wheelchair, she was bedridden.
She's an unlikely victim.
[narrator] born in 1942,
Mary lynne's life started out far from the arizona desert
In the bustling city of chicago
Where she was adopted at a young age
By marie and dave sullivan.
[helen] she had a wonderful mom and dad.
Dave sullivan owned a men's clothing store
With his brother-in-law.
They were just wonderful people.
She loved her father.
She loved her mother too, but she was daddy's girl.
[helen] she had a vivacious personality.
She was the opposite of her parents.
Her parents are quiet,
And mary lynne was her own person, even as a child.
[narrator] after high school, lynne set out on her own.
She worked as a clerk.
She didn't work maybe a couple years,
And then she met dale carlson and they got married.
[narrator] sadly, the easy days were short-lived.
[karen] now, as lynn got older,
She actually was diagnosed with ms.
And so, she really struggled with her health.
Ms affects her muscles and her strength,
And she would become weak at times.
And also, at times, it affected her moods.
She would slip into depressions.
[narrator] despite the early onset on ms
And ensuing depression,
Lynne was determined to live life to the fullest.
In 1970, the 28 year old and her husband
Started a family.
Lynn and dale had one son, and his name was david.
David was her world.
She loved david so much. She loved him dearly.
[narrator] however, lynne was often preoccupied by
The worsening symptoms of her disease.
Ms is something that is very painful,
And it really prohibits people from moving
And having the independence or freedom.
[narrator] the loss of independence took a toll on
Lynne's mental health.
[gail] lynn and I would talk,
And she did confirm with me that,
"yeah, you know, I had a problem with drinking."
[karen] lynn and dale struggled with alcoholism.
That was one of the straws that broke the camel back,
And, you know, they had divorced.
[narrator] lynne tried to cut back on her drinking
And focused on rebuilding the relationship with
Her 12 year old son david.
[gail] she was embarrassed by her behavior.
She said she wished she could've changed things
When he was growing up,
But now things were better.
[narrator] by the late '80s,
Lynne's father had passed away
And her mother relocated to arizona.
In 1988, 46-year-old lynne followed her mother
To the phoenix suburb of peoria
[karen] david stayed back in the chicagoland area
To try and start his life.
He didn't pursue higher education.
He sort of worked, you know, in and out of
Fast food restaurants.
He was a little lost.
[narrator] at the age of 22,
David found what he was looking for
When he met 30-year-old doris hagenow.
[karen] she worked odd jobs, as well.
She worked at a movie theater,
She worked at some fast food restaurants,
But she also was a certified nurse assistant.
[narrator] doris hagenow was born in 1962
And raised in indiana.
Doris is the twin to debbie, they're fraternal twins.
They're six years older than I am.
So, we shared the same mom, but different dads.
Growing up, we really had a good family.
She was a little more the wild woman.
You never knew what kind of adventure
You're, you were gonna get into with dorrie.
[narrator] doris married young and had three children.
But after eight years,
Doris and her husband went their separate ways.
[david] there was a big difference in personality.
There were a lot of heated arguments.
Eventually he said, "that's it.
We're done."
[karen] it was a very contentious divorce.
Her ex-husband got custody of her three children.
There was some time that went by from doris's divorce.
She had been on her own for a while,
Going from apartment to apartment.
[narrator] in 1992, six years after her divorce,
Doris met 22-year-old david carlson.
She was in her 30s, and he was early 20s.
[narrator] after only a year of dating,
David and doris married,
And the newlyweds decided to move to arizona
To live with david's mother, 50-year-old lynne.
Lynne had already been confined to a wheelchair.
She had a trust fund and an annuity.
She was able to buy a pretty decent house.
[bill] at that point, her son and daughter-in-law
Moved in with her.
Doris was a certified nursing assistant.
So it, it worked out great that they could stay with lynne,
Take care of her.
[narrator] for the next three years,
David and doris cared for lynn.
But eventually, it became clear that lynne needed more
Than they could provide.
[gail] with the stage of ms that she had at the time,
She would get the shakes.
She would have no sense of balance,
Fine motor skills were then challenging.
[narrator] in July, 1996,
Lynne moved into
The camelot care assisted living facility
Just a few miles away.
[bill] when lynne moved into the assisted care facility,
David and doris continued to live in the home.
[gail] lynne was making friends there at the facility
That she would have lunch with or visit with at times,
And she really enjoyed it.
[narrator] just a few months
After lynne moved into the facility,
The 53 year old is found with multiple stab wounds
Inside her apartment.
When detectives arrive,
They get an update from lynne's caregivers.
[bill] she's in critical condition.
They were gonna get her into,
To surgery as soon as they could.
[cleve] she was stabbed eight to ten times in the chest.
So, they tried to repair the stab wounds,
They're trying to, to heal her.
This is an unusual crime because that victim was helpless.
They really wanted to find out who, of course,
Could have access to lynne's apartment.
[narrator] coming up.
Detectives zero in on a mysterious clue...
The door was actually locked.
Okay, now somebody had access to the key.
[narrator] until theories on motive shift their attention.
[bill] and you have to look at who stands to gain
The most out of this attack.
[music]
[narrator] October 25, 1996.
As surgeons work frantically to save the life
Of 53 year old stabbing victim lynne carlson,
Detectives interview the nurse who discovered her.
[karen] she let herself in with a key.
So, she walks in and she knew,
Obviously, something horrific had happened,
Because her client was bleeding.
[cleve] lynne said to the woman that that found her,
"I tried as hard as I could to fight them off,
But it was too hard."
[narrator] investigators note an important detail.
[bill] my main thing is how did the suspect get in?
We looked at the door, we looked at the windows,
There was no damage.
The door was actually locked when the nurse came in.
So, somebody had a key.
That was our first clue was,
Okay, now somebody had access to the key.
The nurses had a key which we could account for.
Administration had a master key, which we could account for.
And the third key, we were told, was with david and doris.
[narrator] detectives ask the nurse if she noticed
Anything out of the ordinary
During her earlier rounds that night.
The nurse had observed somebody walking in a white,
Like, a physician's coat.
A medical coat.
[karen] she says she didn't know who he was.
She didn't recognize him.
But she thought it was interesting,
Because most of the doctors and nurses
That are wearing white coats are there during the day.
It's very rare that somebody that's wearing a white coat
Would be in that assisted facility in the evening hours.
[narrator] detectives conclude their interview with the nurse
And begin to examine the scene.
[bill] we're just trying to figure out
Exactly what happened.
Was it a burglary gone bad?
But lynne's purse had been untouched.
The tv had been unplugged,
They had piled some stuff on or around the tv
Like they were gonna take,
But they never took anything.
[bill] the whole scene looked staged at that point,
Because the tv was right there, and lynne's purse.
So, it just, a lot of things at this point didn't make sense.
[narrator] investigators search for the murder weapon.
[bill] as we looked through the crime scene,
We checked the knives.
There was nothing there
That appeared to have been used or washed.
[cleve] the knife or knives that were used
Were not left at the crime scene.
[bill] we were not able to find any fingerprints.
They got in and got out,
And for the most part, they left a clean scene.
[narrator] investigators dig for more information
About lynne's experience in the care facility
Over the past few months.
[bill] we wanted to check and, and see if there was
Any kind of disagreements or anything
Between lynne and any of the, the caregivers
Or any of the residents.
She was very loved and beloved at this assisted facility.
People really liked her.
[bill] there was just nothing that pointed towards
Anybody that would have done something like this.
[narrator] then detectives get word that lynne's son
Has just arrived at the facility.
[bill] david carlson said he just decided to stop here
To see his mom.
I advised david that his mother had been attacked.
His question was,
"where is she, and can she talk?"
[narrator] detective laing breaks the news
That lynne's condition is serious.
He told him she was unconscious and she's on her way to surgery.
I said, "hey, look, you know, I know you,
You wanna get to the hospital and, and see your mom,
But I really need to talk to you.
So, I need you to go straight to the peoria police department."
He agreed. He said he understood.
[narrator] but as detectives arrive at the station,
Less than a ten minute drive from the facility,
David is not there.
[bill] so, when david arrived at the police department,
I asked david,
I looked at my watch and said, you know,
"it took you a while to get here,
Because we left at the same time.
Is everything okay?
You know, did you have any car problems or anything like that?
Did you stop anywhere?"
And david goes, "no, I didn't, I didn't stop anywhere.
I came straight here."
So, at that point, I believe that
David's not bein' truthful with us.
[narrator] detectives move on, questioning david about lynne.
[karen] david maintained that he had
A very good relationship with his mother.
That they were loving, and that he, you know,
Obviously moved his entire life to arizona
To take care of her.
[narrator] however, he admits the high cost of the facility
Has them all stretched thin.
Lynne's trust fund and two annuities totaled
Roughly about $370,000 total.
[cleve] but then lynn goes to the care home.
And so all of the money supporting lynne goes to
Lynne and the care home,
And that leaves no money to support
Doris or david carlson.
David did admit that they're in some financial problems
Because of the care facility.
The house was still owned by lynne.
David and, and doris were just living there.
They were supposed to be taking care of payin' the bills.
We were able to confirm that
They are about ready to lose the house.
The utilities are gonna be shut off and so forth.
[karen] the house in arizona was so large,
It actually had multiple bedrooms
That were not being used.
So, david and doris rented out other bedrooms from the home
In order to make additional money.
[jeanne] mary lynne told me
One of the other things that she kind of,
I'll say, stuck in her craw,
Was that doris was accepting rent money
And not turning it over to mary lynne.
That rent money should have gone to her.
[karen] detectives ask david point blank,
"would you ever hurt your mother?"
And he maintained that he would never.
He did, of course, say that they had arguments over
Finances and money.
But at the same time, he loved her very much.
[narrator] detectives ask david where he was
When lynne was attacked the night before.
[bill] he said that he was at home with doris.
I didn't press too much
Because I wanted to try to keep an open dialogue with him.
[narrator] investigators also ask
About the third key to lynne's room.
[bill] he said that they do have a key
That he thinks is at the house.
And that he could probably get it to us.
[narrator] investigators get one important takeaway
From david's interview...
Lynne carlson had money.
Most common motives for homicide
Would be for money or for love.
You have to look at who stands to gain
The most out of this attack.
If mary lynne was to die,
That would be david, who would get the money.
[narrator] coming up.
A tip exposes horrifying secrets...
I came to the home and lynne would be on the floor,
Could not get herself up.
She would ask for help and no help would come.
[music]
[narrator] for investigators looking into the attack
That left 53-year-old lynne carlson
Clinging to life,
There is an unanswered question looming.
The nurse actually told detectives that
She saw this man in a white coat.
[bill] and we were still looking, at that point,
For the white medical jacket.
It seemed like it wasn't part of the, the actual attack.
[karen] they interviewed all the employees at the facility.
And they're really coming up blank,
And they're, they're really hitting a brick wall.
The white coat never, never came up again.
[narrator] detectives move on and take a look at
The financial records of lynne's son, david,
And his wife, doris...
And they find something troubling.
[cleve] when the house was bought,
It was paid cash by lynne.
So, it was free and clear. There was no mortgage.
And then when doris and david came,
They put a pool in.
And then they took out some other loans.
And that amount of money that was owed was $97,000.
[narrator] on October 25th,
Less than 12 hours after lynne's attack,
Detectives secure a search warrant
And head to the carlson home.
[bill] we were lookin' for any knives.
Any, any kind of bloody clothing,
Anything like that.
David couldn't produce the key,
He would just say,
"I don't know what happened to it."
[narrator] while the search is underway,
Detectives speak with david's wife,
34-year-old doris carlson.
She backs up everything david told police.
She confirmed that both of them were at home
During the hours of the crime that took place.
They were asleep in their bed together.
[bill] she did admit that they did go to lynne's
The previous day,
And had asked for money.
David asked her to sign this paperwork so that
Her trust would then be back to paying all of his bills.
[bill] and lynne told him that
She'd have to talk to her financial advisor.
[narrator] detectives ask doris about the key
To lynne's apartment.
[bill] we'd ask, "where is it?"
"well, I don't know. I'll, I'll find it."
"well, kind of important, we need the key now."
The fact that we were not able to find the key
And they could not produce the key...
To me, I, I felt that we were, we were on the right trail.
[narrator] while doris searches for the key,
Detectives talk with the couple's tenants:
17-year-old scott smith
And 20-year-old john "daniel" mcreaken,
Who both rent rooms at the home
[bill] they were friends with everybody there at the house.
Daniel and david at one time had, had worked together.
[narrator] scott and daniel also corroborate
David and doris's stories.
[bill] everybody was confirming everybody's alibi.
They were all sayin', "yes, they were here at the house."
[narrator] neither doris nor investigators
Are able to locate the key...
Or any other evidence.
We checked all the drawers and,
And we checked that house out thoroughly,
And we really didn't find anything.
[narrator] however, just three days after the attack,
On October 28th,
Investigators finally get a break.
We received a call from an subject
Who was stating that they had information
Pertaining to the attack.
[narrator] the witness, richard,
Agrees to come down to the station
For an interview later that evening.
[bill] he had grown up with david,
But then during their visits to the house,
Become friends with daniel and scott.
[narrator] richard says a couple of nights ago,
He was hanging out at the house with 20-year-old daniel.
[bill] daniel had told him, said,
"hey man, I'm, I'm gonna be gettin' some money."
And richard asked, "well, how, how are you doin' that?"
[karen] he told him that him and scott smith were hired
To break into her apartment and to kill lynne.
[bill] and then once she dies,
David's gonna give them money.
Richard said that daniel said he's splittin' it with scott.
So he goes, "are you, are you serious?
What happened?"
[narrator] according to richard,
Daniel says he stabbed lynne as instructed.
Richard says he came forward because the nature of the crime
Is too much for him to bear.
[karen] they asked richard
If he would be involved in a sting operation
To try to get one of the men to actually tell their story.
He says, "absolutely, I will do that."
Scott smith was 17 year old. He was the youngest.
And they really felt like they might get
The most information from him.
[narrator] as investigators work with richard
To set up a meeting with scott,
They take a deeper dive into
Lynne's relationship with her son.
Investigators interview a nurse
Who cared for lynne when she still lived at home.
I worked for a home health agency,
And the trustees of lynne's estate
Actually were the ones that hired our nursing agency
To come in and oversee and help lynne with her care.
[narrator] gail tells investigators that
The trustees from the bank
Had grown concerned about lynne's wellbeing.
[jeanne] lynn would go to the bank
With her daughter-in-law, doris,
And withdraw money from a trust fund.
Then at some point,
The daughter-in-law was going into the bank without her,
Withdrawing money.
[bill] the trustee started questioning those,
And sent cnas, certified nursing assistant,
To go check on the condition of, of mary lynne.
[narrator] gail says she found lynne in horrific conditions.
Lynne would be in the bathroom or on the floor,
Could not get herself up, and she was left there.
The worst I've seen.
I've never experienced anything like this
In all the years I've been in the healthcare field.
I do not remember that doris was a cna,
And if she were, I didn't see evidence of that.
[narrator] in July, based on the nurse's report,
The trustees of lynne's estate made a decision about her care.
The attorneys involved had all come and made a, a resolution
That she should leave the home, get some medical attention,
Live in a place that she could benefit from.
[narrator] gail continued to care for lynne at the facility.
She says lynne thrived,
But the tension between lynne, her son david, and doris grew.
They definitely seemed irritated,
That was my perception.
They were trying to bully lynne into calling the trustees.
They said, "we are going to lose the house,
And it will be your fault.
You need to call."
[narrator] investigators start to wonder,
How desperate did david get?
In the meantime,
They check in with lynne's caregivers at the hospital.
After several surgeries, she is conscious,
But the damage is grave,
And she still cannot identify her attacker.
We spent a lot of time going to the hospital,
Just checking on, on lynne and her condition.
[gail] I went to visit lynne.
When I saw her, it did not even look like lynne.
She could not speak.
And I went over and held her hand.
I said, "I love you."
[narrator] hospital staff take note of
Lynne's most frequent visitors.
David and doris would play video games and, and stuff,
And really not even pay attention to lynne.
Lynne would have her eyes open.
And the minute that lynne would see doris,
She would close her eyes.
That she did not wanna see doris at all.
[narrator] coming up.
A sting confirms detectives' worst suspicions...
[bill] he said, "go ahead and do it,
But I didn't think they'd have the balls."
[narrator] investigators must determine
How deep this betrayal runs.
[music]
[narrator] a cooperating witness by the name of richard
Agrees to help detectives coax a confession
Out of his friend scott smith,
One of the main suspects in
The attempted murder of lynne carlson.
[bill] richard would frequently show up where scott works,
And then they would come out and smoke a cigarette or whatever.
So, richard agreed to let us go ahead
And put microphones in his car.
Scott said that he would meet him on one of his breaks.
Richard pulled up, parked his car.
Scott comes out, and richard just said,
"dude, what happened?"
He told richard that, "oh man, it was great.
We went in, we got out.
Daniel stabbed her, we're gonna get money."
He didn't identify david as being
One of the active participants.
He mentioned that doris carlson had given them a key.
Doris wanted to do this.
[narrator] although the comments are damning,
Investigators need more to make an arrest.
On November 20th,
Richard agrees to help investigators again
By meeting up with daniel.
[bill] they were just more or less just sitting around.
It wasn't anything out of the norm for them.
Daniel wasn't real open.
He did say that they had ditched the key
Going out towards the white tank mountains.
But then he really wouldn't talk about really anything else.
[narrator] detectives ask richard to wire up
For a third time.
[bill] then we went ahead and we had richard contact david.
Richard just kinda mentioned that, you know,
"hey, I heard what had happened, talking to daniel and scott."
And david really wouldn't talk,
But he did make the comment to richard that,
"well...
They told me what they were gonna do,
And I told him to go ahead and do it.
But I didn't think they'd have the balls."
[narrator] on November 21st,
Nearly a month after the attack
As lynne remains in critical condition,
Detectives arrest her son and daughter-in-law.
They were at the hospital visiting lynne
When police walked in and arrested them.
[narrator] that same day,
Detectives also arrest john "daniel" mcreaken
And scott smith.
Daniel was at home and he was taken into custody,
And scott was at work and he was taken into custody.
[narrator] at the station,
The four alleged co-conspirator are separated for interviews.
Investigators start with 17-year-old scott smith.
Sensing that the jig is up, scott cooperates.
[bill] he said doris did not have an agreement with scott.
It was just with daniel.
That she would pay daniel $20,000 to kill lynne.
[narrator] scott says that on October 25,
He, doris, and daniel left their house just before 1 a.M.
[bill] he said she drove 'em over to the supermarket,
Which is about five blocks away.
She dropped 'em off there,
They went through the back alleyways...
Got to the complex.
Doris had given daniel a key.
[narrator] doris waited in the car
As the two men used her key
To let themselves into lynne's apartment.
Scott started tryin' to make look like
A burglary gone bad.
[narrator] according to scott, daniel focused on lynne.
[narrator] within a few minutes, the attack was over.
Scott and daniel ran back to meet doris
In the grocery store parking lot.
[karen] david is not innocent in this equation,
But doris really was the woman behind this plan.
[narrator] detectives next speak with daniel.
[bill] he gave basically the same account that,
That scott did, just a few more details.
He said, "I walked over to the bed."
He took her wheelchair, which is right by the bed,
And moved it.
He said he just started stabbing.
He was tryin' to hit vital organs,
So that she would die and she would die quick.
[narrator] as for david, he also admits his role.
[bill] he had heard doris talking about doin' it,
And they asked david, "what do you think?"
And david told him, "go ahead and do it."
It stunned me, you know?
How do you do that to your own mom?
Once doris entered into the picture,
David's relationship
And the way he viewed his mom changed.
It was clear in their marriage
Who the dominant person was: Doris.
[narrator] with three of four co-conspirators coming clean,
Investigators are eager to find out if doris will do the same.
But doris claims that she is also a victim here.
[narrator] doris admits to venting her frustrations
One night in front of daniel.
[narrator] doris insists that
Daniel must have acted on his own.
[narrator] after detectives press doris
For another two hours,
She finally admits to giving daniel and scott
A ride to the grocery store.
But stops short of a confession
[narrator] investigators aren't buying it,
And charge all four in the attack.
[bill] at this point,
The charges are attempted first-degree murder,
Burglary in the first-degree,
And facilitation to commit first-degree murder.
[narrator] coming up. A tragic turn...
[bill] she finally died of her injuries.
That changes everything.
[narrator] and a defense no one sees coming.
Doris carlson had some kind of long-term brain damage.
[music]
[narrator] doris carlson,
Along with her husband and two co-conspirators
Have all been charged in a plot
That has left her mother-in-la, 53-year-old lynne carlson,
Fighting for her life.
News of the arrests travels quickly.
[gail] I was relieved.
But I was angry and disgusted in the fact that
They could do this to their mom.
[david] I couldn't believe it. And I cried a lot.
I mean, that was my sister.
But then when I started learning the details
Of what had happened...
It was just complete shock.
[narrator] on April 21, 1997, six months after the attack,
The case takes a devastating turn.
[bill] lynne passed away.
She finally died of her injuries,
Specifically the, the sepsis, the infection.
At that point now, that changes everything,
Because it's no longer attempted first-degree murder.
It's now first-degree murder.
[narrator] with high stakes and little physical evidence
Tying the accused to the crime,
Prosecutors approach scott smith with a deal.
We really needed more evidence than we had.
Scott smith was a witness.
He knows what happened, he knows who did it.
[bill] his attorney agreed that he would testify
At all the other trials
In return for a guilty plea of second-degree murder.
And he would serve a sentence of ten years.
[narrator] with the aid of scott's testimony,
In 1998, both david carlson and daniel mcreaken
Are found guilty at trial.
[bill] daniel was found guilty on all charges.
And was sentenced to life in prison,
No possibility of parole.
David was found guilty
On the conspiracy to commit first-degree murder.
He was sentenced to 25 to life
With a possibility for parole after 25.
[narrator] when it comes time for doris's trial,
Prosecutors add another name to the witness list.
Our case against doris is probably the weakest.
Daniel agreed to testify against doris,
Knowing that he would not get any benefit from it.
[narrator] daniel testifies that it was doris
Who approached him with a plan.
[cleve] doris carlson was getting tired of caring for
Her mother-in-law.
She had no thought about how bad this was,
How horrible it was, how cruel it was.
[narrator] prosecutors assert that doris became desperate
After she and david blew through money
They had borrowed against lynne's home.
[bill] they used money on stuff instead of payin' the bills.
So, the $90,000,
90 plus thousand dollars,
They end up just squandering away
And didn't take care of anything
That they needed to take care of.
[narrator] as for her defense,
Doris's attorneys make a new and shocking claim.
[cleve] the defense strategy was to say that doris carlson had
Some kind of long-term brain damage
From some previous injury to her head.
But there was not very much evidence to support that.
[narrator] on July 27, 1999,
Doris is found guilty on all charges and sentenced to death.
[cleve] it ended up that the supreme court
Reversed the death penalty.
It was a close call.
It's a little harder to convince the supreme court
To affirm death for women.
[david] it hurts.
It's not just the one woman that got killed.
You've got the rest of her family
That had to go through that horror.
Our family that had to go through the horror,
Realizing that it was one of us that did this to another family.
And that's not who we are. It's not.
[gail] still, to this day,
It had affected me more than I even realized.
And it was terrifying.
You know, if these people were capable
Of doing this to their mother,
We are like, "oh, wow.
You know, anyone could be capable of anything.
You just don't know."
[music]