1 00:00:10,366 --> 00:00:13,100 -Bruno Lohse was the last Nazi art plunderer 2 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:15,433 who was still alive. 3 00:00:15,433 --> 00:00:19,866 They were hunting for the Jews, torturing, raiding, looting. 4 00:00:21,766 --> 00:00:25,300 -Goering says to Lohse, "I want you to work for me." 5 00:00:29,333 --> 00:00:31,033 -At war's end, 6 00:00:31,033 --> 00:00:33,766 Lohse is captured by three American monuments officers. 7 00:00:34,766 --> 00:00:37,366 They found Lohse sitting right on the ledge here. 8 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:43,266 -Lohse was exonerated by a French military tribunal, 9 00:00:43,266 --> 00:00:45,366 and he was free to do what he wanted. 10 00:00:46,333 --> 00:00:50,100 -After the war, he knew who stole paintings, 11 00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:51,900 who still had paintings. 12 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:56,500 -He knows that if he's really going to realize his ambitions, 13 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:58,166 he needs to go to America. 14 00:01:00,666 --> 00:01:03,633 -I didn't realize that our relationship would take me 15 00:01:03,633 --> 00:01:08,433 to another world, to a Swiss Bank... 16 00:01:09,666 --> 00:01:11,700 that concealed stolen pictures. 17 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,233 To the contemporary art world, 18 00:01:14,233 --> 00:01:17,433 where Nazi looted art is still traded. 19 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,700 It's the greatest art scandal of the 20th century. 20 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,366 I had no idea what I was getting into. 21 00:01:27,366 --> 00:01:41,466 ♪♪ 22 00:01:58,133 --> 00:02:01,500 ♪♪ 23 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:05,066 -When Lohse was released from a French prison, in 1950, 24 00:02:05,066 --> 00:02:10,133 he relocated to the Bavarian capital to revive his career. 25 00:02:11,366 --> 00:02:14,800 But Munich was just the starting place. 26 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,533 He knows that America is going to offer him 27 00:02:17,533 --> 00:02:20,166 the greatest opportunities. 28 00:02:23,566 --> 00:02:26,833 Lohse writes to the three former OSS officers 29 00:02:26,833 --> 00:02:29,500 who interrogated him in the summer of '45, 30 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:32,533 because they've become significant players 31 00:02:32,533 --> 00:02:35,033 in the art world in America. 32 00:02:35,033 --> 00:02:39,200 But it's important to remember that Lohse is tainted, right? 33 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,000 He's a former Nazi. 34 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,533 He's an art plunderer. 35 00:02:43,533 --> 00:02:46,966 And so they're a little careful, initially. 36 00:02:46,966 --> 00:02:49,300 Rousseau responds the most warmly, right? 37 00:02:49,300 --> 00:02:51,700 He's now in this very important position 38 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:56,366 as a curator of paintings at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. 39 00:02:56,366 --> 00:03:02,433 ♪♪ 40 00:03:02,433 --> 00:03:07,566 He sees his job as a curator to obtain not just pictures, 41 00:03:07,566 --> 00:03:10,566 but great pictures for the Met. 42 00:03:10,566 --> 00:03:11,900 -It's a privilege to welcome you 43 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:15,000 to the renovated Metropolitan Museum. 44 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,933 And I'm going to ask Theodore Rousseau, 45 00:03:16,933 --> 00:03:18,900 our curator of painting, 46 00:03:18,900 --> 00:03:21,900 if he will show the works of art that are here in the room. 47 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:23,733 -The curators believe, 48 00:03:23,733 --> 00:03:25,300 you know, this was the greatest museum in America, 49 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:27,100 which it was, 50 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:30,600 and was on its way to being the greatest museum in the world. 51 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,366 -The most important thing about a museum in the last analysis 52 00:03:33,366 --> 00:03:35,733 is the masterpieces that it contains. 53 00:03:35,733 --> 00:03:37,566 This, incidentally, is one of our greatest. 54 00:03:37,566 --> 00:03:39,900 "The Harvesters" is by Pieter Bruegel. 55 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:44,400 -And in the 1950s, with the amnesia in Europe, 56 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,666 it gave individuals like Rousseau 57 00:03:46,666 --> 00:03:51,166 an opportunity to bend the rules, to take chances, 58 00:03:51,166 --> 00:03:53,400 to be extremely aggressive. 59 00:03:55,900 --> 00:03:57,666 I mean, one sees his background. 60 00:03:57,666 --> 00:04:01,766 He had been a spy, basically, in the Far East early in the war. 61 00:04:01,766 --> 00:04:04,300 So he has this espionage background. 62 00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:08,166 He had attended Eton College, Harvard University. 63 00:04:08,166 --> 00:04:11,200 So he doesn't think that all the rules apply to him. 64 00:04:12,966 --> 00:04:16,466 The letters between Bruno Lohse and Ted Rousseau 65 00:04:16,466 --> 00:04:19,000 have been preserved in the archives of the Met, 66 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,866 and they're really quite extraordinary. 67 00:04:21,866 --> 00:04:25,233 So, this entire folder is correspondence between Rousseau 68 00:04:25,233 --> 00:04:29,833 and Lohse, and I would say it's about 70 pages, 69 00:04:29,833 --> 00:04:31,933 perhaps more, of documents. 70 00:04:31,933 --> 00:04:33,500 And at the beginning, 71 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:36,533 Lohse is clearly initiating the relationship. 72 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,400 In the spring of '53, he writes to Rousseau and he says, 73 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,500 "I want to come to America and see you." 74 00:04:44,500 --> 00:04:46,366 But he's still on the list 75 00:04:46,366 --> 00:04:49,233 of internationally wanted war criminals. 76 00:04:49,233 --> 00:04:53,600 In principle, he cannot travel to the United States. 77 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,233 So he writes to Rousseau and he says, "I have a plan. 78 00:04:57,233 --> 00:05:00,666 There's a provision that I can spend 24 hours in the airport, 79 00:05:00,666 --> 00:05:02,333 in transit. 80 00:05:02,333 --> 00:05:04,333 I have some pictures to show you. 81 00:05:04,333 --> 00:05:06,900 Will you come and meet me at the airport?" 82 00:05:08,933 --> 00:05:11,300 Yeah, it is right out of a spy novel. 83 00:05:13,733 --> 00:05:16,566 Now, Rousseau doesn't go to the airport, 84 00:05:16,566 --> 00:05:18,333 and maybe Rousseau is still reluctant. 85 00:05:18,333 --> 00:05:21,600 But Lohse is resourceful and sends a package 86 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,733 of photographs of paintings to the Met. 87 00:05:25,733 --> 00:05:29,300 The photos are pictures by Botticelli, Gauguin, 88 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:32,100 Picasso, Cranach. 89 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:34,900 Really, you know, first-class artists. 90 00:05:34,900 --> 00:05:37,366 And it really raises certain questions. 91 00:05:37,366 --> 00:05:40,133 But soon thereafter, you can see 92 00:05:40,133 --> 00:05:42,700 this personal relationship develops between the two. 93 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:44,500 And in this letter, 94 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:48,266 Lohse writes to Rousseau at Rousseau's home address, 95 00:05:48,266 --> 00:05:50,033 not at the museum itself. 96 00:05:51,433 --> 00:05:54,133 But for me, one of the most extraordinary letters 97 00:05:54,133 --> 00:05:57,266 is from the 27th of October 1959. 98 00:05:57,266 --> 00:06:03,400 And Lohse wrote here about a large landscape by Cezanne 99 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,100 that is available, and this is where 100 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:06,333 it really gets interesting. 101 00:06:06,333 --> 00:06:08,533 "The deepest of private collections." 102 00:06:08,533 --> 00:06:10,733 For 1 million Swiss Francs, 103 00:06:10,733 --> 00:06:13,800 which was a veritable fortune in 1959. 104 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,000 But, he says, "For technical reasons, 105 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,600 however, the owner would be interested 106 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,100 in selling the picture outside an auction." 107 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:22,166 Alright? So there's a telling clue 108 00:06:22,166 --> 00:06:25,433 that the owner doesn't want to put it up at a public auction. 109 00:06:25,433 --> 00:06:28,166 But probably even more important, he says, 110 00:06:28,166 --> 00:06:30,733 "I would ask you once again to treat the matter 111 00:06:30,733 --> 00:06:33,866 very discreetly, because if it came out 112 00:06:33,866 --> 00:06:36,133 that I had referred you to this collection, 113 00:06:36,133 --> 00:06:39,333 it would put certain people in a difficult position. 114 00:06:39,333 --> 00:06:42,600 And some gentlemen would tear me into 115 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,033 kleine stuecke reissen --"  small pieces. 116 00:06:50,466 --> 00:06:52,566 It's extraordinarily fishy. 117 00:06:52,566 --> 00:06:54,500 The seller doesn't want to put it up at auction. 118 00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:56,833 It has to be handled within two weeks. 119 00:06:56,833 --> 00:06:58,700 Quick, quick, quick. 120 00:06:58,700 --> 00:07:02,500 You know, "Don't tell anyone else or I'll be torn to pieces." 121 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:06,300 [ Laughs ] Yes, this thing has red flags all over it. 122 00:07:08,633 --> 00:07:10,800 -What brought them together, 123 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,100 you know, was their appreciation for certain works of art, 124 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:16,100 and the rest didn't matter. 125 00:07:19,633 --> 00:07:22,933 -By the 1960s, Rousseau is writing to Lohse and saying, 126 00:07:22,933 --> 00:07:24,500 "I'm coming to Germany. 127 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:25,966 I'm coming to Europe. Will you meet with me?" 128 00:07:25,966 --> 00:07:27,933 And they end up meeting in Munich, 129 00:07:27,933 --> 00:07:31,100 in Paris sometimes, and also in Zurich, 130 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:34,833 in the Swiss art market, too. 131 00:07:34,833 --> 00:07:36,466 There's no doubt in my mind 132 00:07:36,466 --> 00:07:41,133 that Rousseau viewed Lohse as an information broker 133 00:07:41,133 --> 00:07:43,700 and that Lohse knew where a lot of the artworks 134 00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:46,966 were located -- looted and legitimate. 135 00:07:46,966 --> 00:07:49,666 And so I guess one can generously say of Rousseau, 136 00:07:49,666 --> 00:07:53,400 he was doing his job by collecting information. 137 00:07:55,900 --> 00:07:58,400 -I have a hard line towards the American position 138 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,133 vis-à-vis Lohse. 139 00:08:00,133 --> 00:08:02,600 To me, it's aiding and abetting 140 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,000 and engaging in the worst kind of opportunism 141 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,000 that one can engage in. 142 00:08:09,366 --> 00:08:11,800 -And when I was talking with Lohse, 143 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,600 he told me about his meetings with Rousseau 144 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,433 and going to a lake in the Bavarian Alps 145 00:08:17,433 --> 00:08:20,100 and how they would stay up late drinking wine 146 00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:23,466 and talking about art and how they would bond together. 147 00:08:51,866 --> 00:08:55,600 Rousseau was a swashbuckling curator, right? 148 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,866 But there were many, many other curators at other institutions 149 00:08:58,866 --> 00:09:01,333 who followed their lead. 150 00:09:01,333 --> 00:09:03,200 And it is interesting that Tom Hoving, 151 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,633 who was a close friend of Ted Rousseau's 152 00:09:05,633 --> 00:09:07,700 when Hoving was director of the Met, 153 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:10,166 called this period in the '50s and '60s, 154 00:09:10,166 --> 00:09:11,866 "The Age of Piracy." 155 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,233 And that's the image, right? 156 00:09:15,233 --> 00:09:17,066 That these curators are pirates, 157 00:09:17,066 --> 00:09:18,966 and they're off to trying to get the swag. 158 00:09:18,966 --> 00:09:21,666 And I think Rousseau -- he embraced that. 159 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,333 -And if you really want to understand the Lohse-Rousseau 160 00:09:30,333 --> 00:09:34,900 relationship, the answer and the key 161 00:09:34,900 --> 00:09:38,766 is found in America's tax system. 162 00:09:40,166 --> 00:09:45,033 In the early 1950s, tax rates were insanely high. 163 00:09:45,033 --> 00:09:47,566 Now, to the truly wealthy, 164 00:09:47,566 --> 00:09:52,166 you needed tax breaks desperately 165 00:09:52,166 --> 00:09:55,466 if you were not to lose all of your wealth. 166 00:09:55,466 --> 00:10:02,733 From that time, we saw the explosion of American museums. 167 00:10:02,733 --> 00:10:08,900 Because if someone donates to a museum, they get a tax break. 168 00:10:08,900 --> 00:10:12,633 And the reason art is the best tax break is 169 00:10:12,633 --> 00:10:16,966 because if you buy this artwork for $1,000 170 00:10:16,966 --> 00:10:21,533 and the curator would say it's worth $10,000, 171 00:10:21,533 --> 00:10:27,300 then, donating it to the museum, you get a $10,000 tax break. 172 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:35,300 So in this environment of Americans eager 173 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:37,233 to get tax breaks, 174 00:10:37,233 --> 00:10:40,166 they were hungry for artworks 175 00:10:40,166 --> 00:10:43,366 and particularly European artworks. 176 00:10:45,466 --> 00:10:50,666 And in this very murky, if not black, market, 177 00:10:50,666 --> 00:10:55,333 museums became filled with toxic assets. 178 00:10:55,333 --> 00:10:59,900 Almost no one had a motivation to look into provenance. 179 00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:03,066 The Metropolitan Museum of Art, 180 00:11:03,066 --> 00:11:08,100 the MoMA, the Guggenheim, the Toledo Museum of Art, 181 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:12,533 the Detroit Institute of the Arts, Art Institute of Chicago, 182 00:11:12,533 --> 00:11:15,066 Museum of Fine Arts Boston -- 183 00:11:15,066 --> 00:11:23,200 every major American institution was implicated in this scandal. 184 00:11:26,466 --> 00:11:30,833 -I took my father down to San Diego, 185 00:11:30,833 --> 00:11:32,733 and in the museum, 186 00:11:32,733 --> 00:11:35,800 there is a wonderful Dutch painting by Frans Hals. 187 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:42,533 And I found my father transfixed in front of this painting. 188 00:11:42,533 --> 00:11:45,633 So, I asked him -- I said, "What's going on here? 189 00:11:45,633 --> 00:11:46,900 Are you alright?" 190 00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:49,366 And he said, "Well, this painting 191 00:11:49,366 --> 00:11:51,700 used to belong to my father." 192 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:58,100 -Despite my extensive efforts to find evidence 193 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:02,366 of Lohse selling to the Met and to other American museums, 194 00:12:02,366 --> 00:12:04,800 I have never found an artwork 195 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,366 where we can link it directly to Bruno Lohse, 196 00:12:07,366 --> 00:12:09,966 that he sold the work to the museum. 197 00:12:09,966 --> 00:12:11,866 -I think that's one of the clever things about Bruno Lohse, 198 00:12:11,866 --> 00:12:14,766 is you don't see his name on the provenance of paintings. 199 00:12:14,766 --> 00:12:16,833 It's not because he's not involved in the paintings. 200 00:12:16,833 --> 00:12:19,066 He may be the owner or part owner. 201 00:12:19,066 --> 00:12:21,766 That's the way that ownership of art works, still works today. 202 00:12:21,766 --> 00:12:24,300 You might have, you know, two or three dealers 203 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:27,066 who are co-owners of a painting, 204 00:12:27,066 --> 00:12:30,000 but only one is the public face of ownership. 205 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:33,733 -Lohse's name probably will be recognized by some 206 00:12:33,733 --> 00:12:36,300 who are aware of what took place in Europe 207 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,033 during the Second World War. 208 00:12:38,033 --> 00:12:40,433 So, a man like Lohse is clever. 209 00:12:40,433 --> 00:12:43,700 -You had to be discreet, so you used middlemen, 210 00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:47,266 who introduced the paintings to the market. 211 00:12:50,866 --> 00:12:54,866 -Lohse told me about several prominent émigré dealers, 212 00:12:54,866 --> 00:12:57,500 several of them Jewish, with whom he claimed that, 213 00:12:57,500 --> 00:13:00,800 you know, he did business in the 1950s and '60s. 214 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:03,966 One of them was Frederick Mont. 215 00:13:03,966 --> 00:13:05,866 I think his original name was Mondschein. 216 00:13:05,866 --> 00:13:08,333 Sold very high-end art. 217 00:13:08,333 --> 00:13:10,733 Then there's Rosenberg and Stiebel, 218 00:13:10,733 --> 00:13:12,233 absolute blue-chip gallery. 219 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,700 -Rosenberg and Stiebel. 220 00:13:15,700 --> 00:13:19,833 -They sold masterpieces to the Met and other museums. 221 00:13:19,833 --> 00:13:23,166 Well, a looted picture from the Goodman collection 222 00:13:23,166 --> 00:13:24,566 was sold by them. 223 00:13:24,566 --> 00:13:27,866 -£145,000. 224 00:13:27,866 --> 00:13:31,300 -People are sometimes knowingly trafficking in looted art 225 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:34,400 and sometimes unknowingly, not doing the research. 226 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,866 -It's very hard to know 227 00:13:36,866 --> 00:13:38,933 how deliberate the obscuring of provenance was, 228 00:13:38,933 --> 00:13:41,733 but I think we have so much experience now 229 00:13:41,733 --> 00:13:43,433 of recovering looted paintings 230 00:13:43,433 --> 00:13:45,166 and looking at the back of a painting... 231 00:13:46,833 --> 00:13:50,233 and discovering that there's no information there anymore. 232 00:13:52,966 --> 00:13:55,466 Usually, it will have a label saying who the owner was 233 00:13:55,466 --> 00:13:57,633 or it might have a number, indicating number, 234 00:13:57,633 --> 00:13:59,066 in their collection, 235 00:13:59,066 --> 00:14:01,700 or something that would indicate its history. 236 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:05,100 And if you look at paintings today that appear for sale, 237 00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:08,133 particularly looted -- well, obviously looted ones -- 238 00:14:08,133 --> 00:14:09,800 they're usually scrubbed clean. 239 00:14:11,633 --> 00:14:14,566 -Sometimes, works were put on new stretchers. 240 00:14:14,566 --> 00:14:17,133 The Matisse that we recovered from Oslo 241 00:14:17,133 --> 00:14:18,733 was squeaky clean on the back. 242 00:14:18,733 --> 00:14:20,833 New stretcher, not a label, nothing. 243 00:14:20,833 --> 00:14:22,666 Washed clean. There was nothing. 244 00:14:24,333 --> 00:14:25,900 -The other thing, of course, 245 00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:28,100 was that the published provenances were changed. 246 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:32,733 So the name of the owner would not be there anymore. 247 00:14:32,733 --> 00:14:36,700 And some other fake name would be used instead. 248 00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:39,633 So it became very difficult, also, to prove ownership 249 00:14:39,633 --> 00:14:41,833 for families when all the evidence had actually 250 00:14:41,833 --> 00:14:44,433 deliberately been obscured. 251 00:14:44,433 --> 00:14:49,033 -Out of the missing works from my family's collection, 252 00:14:49,033 --> 00:14:51,733 I've probably found more in the U.S.A. 253 00:14:51,733 --> 00:14:53,800 than in any other country. 254 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,400 There was too much money to be made, 255 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,633 and there was no downside. 256 00:14:57,633 --> 00:15:00,366 There were no consequences. 257 00:15:05,766 --> 00:15:08,966 -The way in which Bruno Lohse revived his career in the 1950s 258 00:15:08,966 --> 00:15:11,433 is just extraordinary. 259 00:15:11,433 --> 00:15:13,933 But his greatest "accomplishment," 260 00:15:13,933 --> 00:15:16,033 I think one could say, 261 00:15:16,033 --> 00:15:20,000 was the relationship he forged with the Wildenstein family. 262 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,433 And, you know, this was a relationship 263 00:15:22,433 --> 00:15:26,566 that extended for over 50 years. 264 00:15:26,566 --> 00:15:30,300 -The Wildensteins are probably the most important 265 00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:31,733 art-dealing family 266 00:15:31,733 --> 00:15:34,400 or art-dealing dynasty in the world. 267 00:15:35,933 --> 00:15:38,700 The patriarch of the family, George Wildenstein, 268 00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:41,533 fled Paris after the German invasion 269 00:15:41,533 --> 00:15:45,433 in 1940 and came to New York. 270 00:15:45,433 --> 00:15:48,966 They played an incredibly important role in the growth 271 00:15:48,966 --> 00:15:51,533 and the development of American museums. 272 00:15:51,533 --> 00:15:54,200 I mean, the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C., 273 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,100 has 81 pictures from the Wildensteins. 274 00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:01,000 And the Met has 44 galleries 275 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,100 where at least one painting in each gallery 276 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:04,966 was purchased from the Wildensteins. 277 00:16:06,433 --> 00:16:08,700 -The Wildensteins, as far as I understand, 278 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:11,866 you know, are in the category of billionaires, 279 00:16:11,866 --> 00:16:15,166 ones who have reached a level where they can breed racehorses 280 00:16:15,166 --> 00:16:17,400 and own a farm in Kenya, 281 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,133 and God knows what else they have. 282 00:16:23,133 --> 00:16:25,133 -We have this strange relation between Lohse, 283 00:16:25,133 --> 00:16:28,866 you know, an independent, small art dealer in Munich, 284 00:16:28,866 --> 00:16:31,300 and the all-powerful Wildensteins. 285 00:16:32,233 --> 00:16:34,433 But if you do any business in the art world, 286 00:16:34,433 --> 00:16:36,233 you will meet the Wildensteins. 287 00:16:36,233 --> 00:16:38,033 It's no surprise. 288 00:16:38,033 --> 00:16:42,066 More surprising is that Lohse was on the side of the looters, 289 00:16:42,066 --> 00:16:44,833 and the Wildensteins have been -- their collections 290 00:16:44,833 --> 00:16:48,766 have been severely looted, you know, in wartimes. 291 00:16:48,766 --> 00:16:51,533 So you may see, you have the Jewish victims, 292 00:16:51,533 --> 00:16:56,366 you know, who have been looted, and the looters, you know? 293 00:16:56,366 --> 00:16:58,833 And how come that they could even, you know, think of, 294 00:16:58,833 --> 00:17:00,166 you know, meeting? 295 00:17:17,633 --> 00:17:21,133 -The Wildensteins have denied working with Lohse. 296 00:17:21,133 --> 00:17:22,733 And, you know, for the family, 297 00:17:22,733 --> 00:17:26,333 for this French-American Jewish family, 298 00:17:26,333 --> 00:17:28,733 it's very uncomfortable, to say the least. 299 00:17:30,166 --> 00:17:32,833 We have a letter from Alec Wildenstein 300 00:17:32,833 --> 00:17:35,833 saying he's known Lohse for over 60 years. 301 00:17:35,833 --> 00:17:38,600 Evidence is incontrovertible. 302 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,333 But Lohse was an information broker. 303 00:17:41,333 --> 00:17:46,266 He had connections in the networks of old Nazi dealers 304 00:17:46,266 --> 00:17:48,533 that would be useful to the Wildensteins. 305 00:17:48,533 --> 00:17:51,533 They could use an agent like Lohse, 306 00:17:51,533 --> 00:17:54,433 who would operate in Germany and Switzerland 307 00:17:54,433 --> 00:17:57,333 and other parts of the world, as well. 308 00:18:04,833 --> 00:18:08,633 -It was a very complex and cutthroat business, 309 00:18:08,633 --> 00:18:11,733 and the more knowledge you had, the more power you had. 310 00:18:14,833 --> 00:18:16,533 The relationship between Lohse 311 00:18:16,533 --> 00:18:19,833 and the Wildensteins follows a pattern. 312 00:18:19,833 --> 00:18:22,700 The family has remained very secretive. 313 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:27,566 There's a code of silence, of omerta, and it's this secrecy 314 00:18:27,566 --> 00:18:30,700 and the fact that they're so powerful that invites 315 00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:34,033 speculation and suspicion. 316 00:18:34,033 --> 00:18:37,566 Back in 1965, there were allegations 317 00:18:37,566 --> 00:18:40,633 that the Wildensteins falsified information 318 00:18:40,633 --> 00:18:42,533 in catalogue raisonnés, 319 00:18:42,533 --> 00:18:45,733 where the published art historian Douglas Cooper 320 00:18:45,733 --> 00:18:48,066 made these allegations about a Gauguin catalogue 321 00:18:48,066 --> 00:18:49,866 that lists the provenance, 322 00:18:49,866 --> 00:18:53,300 the ownership history, of a painting. 323 00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:55,766 Those accusations have been made subsequently, right, 324 00:18:55,766 --> 00:18:58,433 that the Wildensteins are not straightforward 325 00:18:58,433 --> 00:19:01,433 in these catalogues. 326 00:19:01,433 --> 00:19:03,300 And then, in 2011, 327 00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:07,066 there was a police raid on the Wildenstein Paris bank vault, 328 00:19:07,066 --> 00:19:10,066 and they found about 30 pictures 329 00:19:10,066 --> 00:19:13,066 that belonged to two French Jewish families 330 00:19:13,066 --> 00:19:17,266 that were not looted, but had been reported missing. 331 00:19:17,266 --> 00:19:18,666 At the time, the Wildensteins said, 332 00:19:18,666 --> 00:19:20,500 "Well, you know, we have so many works, 333 00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:22,200 we don't know exactly what we have," 334 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,200 and they kind of pleaded ignorance. 335 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,333 But they were found with this cache of paintings. 336 00:19:30,733 --> 00:19:33,666 The Wildensteins are known for being litigious, 337 00:19:33,666 --> 00:19:35,333 so this is one of the reasons 338 00:19:35,333 --> 00:19:37,033 so few people want to talk about it. 339 00:19:37,033 --> 00:19:40,600 -They sued me. They sued me. 340 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,000 They asked for $1 million and for the book 341 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,700 to be eliminated, to not be published again. 342 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:51,866 I fought for five years. I spent $200,000 on that. 343 00:19:51,866 --> 00:19:53,833 [ Laughs ] 344 00:19:53,833 --> 00:19:55,766 -Somebody like Bruno Lohse, 345 00:19:55,766 --> 00:19:59,100 who prefer to keep a low profile, 346 00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:04,566 to do business with a firm like Wildenstein 347 00:20:04,566 --> 00:20:08,200 that has a reputation of being secretive on the one hand 348 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,266 and being deep-pocketed on the other hand, 349 00:20:11,266 --> 00:20:14,566 is almost a perfect match. 350 00:20:29,933 --> 00:20:34,400 -By the 1970s, Lohse was a very impressive, even a grand figure. 351 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,166 And we can see that in the way that he lives 352 00:20:37,166 --> 00:20:38,633 when he comes to New York. 353 00:20:40,766 --> 00:20:44,866 He stays in some of the finest hotels in the city. 354 00:20:44,866 --> 00:20:48,500 He has very powerful friends. 355 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,266 There's one story that Lohse would tell 356 00:20:54,266 --> 00:20:58,566 that captured this extraordinary rise. 357 00:20:59,933 --> 00:21:02,066 And that happened in the mid-1960s, 358 00:21:02,066 --> 00:21:04,433 when he was visiting with Ted Rousseau. 359 00:21:05,966 --> 00:21:09,700 They were going to dinner, to the Four Seasons restaurant. 360 00:21:12,533 --> 00:21:15,633 And Lohse recounted how they got into this massive Bentley, 361 00:21:15,633 --> 00:21:17,733 you know, an extraordinary car. 362 00:21:17,733 --> 00:21:19,966 You know, Lohse would say, "Man, was fuer ein auto?" 363 00:21:19,966 --> 00:21:21,400 "What kind of car was that?" 364 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,100 It was an automobile that belonged to Madame David-Weill. 365 00:21:29,333 --> 00:21:32,300 She was the mistress of Ted Rousseau, 366 00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:36,200 but more importantly, she was the wife of Mr. David-Weill 367 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,600 from the very prominent banking family in Paris. 368 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,200 And what was so extraordinary was that during the war, 369 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,066 the David-Weills had had their art in Paris looted, 370 00:21:47,066 --> 00:21:50,900 looted by the ERR, looted by Bruno Lohse. 371 00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:54,266 So what a turn of events from, 372 00:21:54,266 --> 00:21:56,600 you know, looting the David-Weills during the war 373 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,066 to traveling in their car in New York in the 1960s. 374 00:22:03,233 --> 00:22:05,366 -Nobody's asking any questions. 375 00:22:05,366 --> 00:22:08,333 He's got a lifestyle where people 376 00:22:08,333 --> 00:22:11,700 don't really care, as long as you indulge them 377 00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:16,066 in savvy conversation and high taste. 378 00:22:16,066 --> 00:22:20,166 And if that's all he had to do, then he was in like Flint. 379 00:22:20,166 --> 00:22:22,566 -When one considers, you know, 380 00:22:22,566 --> 00:22:24,900 all the people who had wanted to bring Lohse 381 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:27,733 down in the late 1940s, 382 00:22:27,733 --> 00:22:30,800 the fact that he's now enjoying this kind of lifestyle, 383 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,300 I think for him, you know, is his victory. 384 00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:36,966 He once said to me, 385 00:22:36,966 --> 00:22:39,066 "Living well was the best revenge." 386 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:47,266 -The breakthrough came last night 387 00:22:47,266 --> 00:22:50,433 as the first concrete block was removed by East German workers. 388 00:22:50,433 --> 00:22:52,566 [ All cheering ] 389 00:22:55,433 --> 00:22:57,833 Frontier police from the two sides of the wall 390 00:22:57,833 --> 00:23:00,366 met in a moment which symbolized this healing 391 00:23:00,366 --> 00:23:03,900 of Germany's psychological wounds. 392 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:06,266 -I think, you know, what happened after 1989, 393 00:23:06,266 --> 00:23:08,000 Lohse was blindsided. 394 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,266 He never saw it coming. 395 00:23:12,466 --> 00:23:14,466 The fall of the wall changed everything. 396 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:20,566 At the end of the Cold War, 397 00:23:20,566 --> 00:23:23,966 archives opened up in the former Communist East Germany. 398 00:23:23,966 --> 00:23:27,133 New questions were asked, questions about what happened 399 00:23:27,133 --> 00:23:29,100 to Jewish property in the East. 400 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:31,766 What did Swiss banks do during the war? 401 00:23:31,766 --> 00:23:34,866 -There was a new understanding of complicity, 402 00:23:34,866 --> 00:23:38,700 of participation in the Holocaust that extended out, 403 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:41,766 you know, beyond the killing centers to the broader society 404 00:23:41,766 --> 00:23:43,800 and even to the art world 405 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,600 and the importance of looting and greed 406 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,400 as a motivator for the Holocaust. 407 00:23:49,566 --> 00:23:51,633 -It was particularly inspiring 408 00:23:51,633 --> 00:23:53,433 to the heirs of certain families, 409 00:23:53,433 --> 00:23:56,366 who renewed their efforts to claim things 410 00:23:56,366 --> 00:23:59,133 and try to find out where they were. 411 00:23:59,133 --> 00:24:01,533 -I was probably the first person 412 00:24:01,533 --> 00:24:05,366 to have a looting case settled in the U.S. 413 00:24:05,366 --> 00:24:08,333 Then lots more families came forward. 414 00:24:08,333 --> 00:24:11,233 And so the world had changed very dramatically 415 00:24:11,233 --> 00:24:13,966 just in a few years. 416 00:24:13,966 --> 00:24:17,600 -I was looking to see if I could find any of the Nazis 417 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,733 who'd actually been involved in the looting. 418 00:24:19,733 --> 00:24:23,833 And, to my astonishment, I found, hiding in plain sight, 419 00:24:23,833 --> 00:24:26,033 so to speak, was Bruno Lohse. 420 00:24:30,066 --> 00:24:33,333 -The first time I learned about Lohse being alive in Munich, 421 00:24:33,333 --> 00:24:35,833 Anne Webber and I were having a drink after a long day 422 00:24:35,833 --> 00:24:38,533 at a conference, and she told me about him. 423 00:24:38,533 --> 00:24:40,300 And I remember scribbling a note to myself, I think, 424 00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:43,000 on a napkin, like, "Bruno Lohse, in Munich." 425 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,900 -And he didn't know he was still alive. 426 00:24:46,733 --> 00:24:49,900 -And she told me, "Well, look him up in the telephone book." 427 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:53,133 And I took Anne's advice, and there he was. 428 00:24:54,100 --> 00:24:57,233 And I arranged to have lunch together. 429 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,700 Now, looking back on this first meeting, 430 00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:03,566 I can see that he was meeting with me 431 00:25:03,566 --> 00:25:05,500 because I could be useful to him. 432 00:25:07,533 --> 00:25:09,200 I think he sensed 433 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,300 that we were entering a more dangerous period, 434 00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:13,766 as far as he was concerned, 435 00:25:13,766 --> 00:25:15,566 that it was going to be possible to do some research 436 00:25:15,566 --> 00:25:17,633 and discover some of his secrets. 437 00:25:17,633 --> 00:25:20,000 So, I think he met with me to feel me out 438 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,233 and see what I knew already. 439 00:25:23,966 --> 00:25:25,766 I realized later, he had completely 440 00:25:25,766 --> 00:25:29,000 stage-managed the event. 441 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,866 The chauffeur and the grand car 442 00:25:31,866 --> 00:25:36,133 is clearly a kind of staged scene to impress me. 443 00:25:36,133 --> 00:25:40,900 And, as I learned later, the driver was not a chauffeur. 444 00:25:42,566 --> 00:25:45,300 His name was Peter Griebert, 445 00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:48,566 and it turned out that he was another art dealer and Lohse's 446 00:25:48,566 --> 00:25:50,200 business manager. 447 00:25:51,533 --> 00:25:55,333 I realized it then, and looking back on it now, 448 00:25:55,333 --> 00:26:01,000 one doesn't go in and trifle with Lohse without consequences. 449 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,733 If you get close to him, 450 00:26:02,733 --> 00:26:05,566 you're going to get bruised and you're going to feel 451 00:26:05,566 --> 00:26:09,533 the effects, as I was about to find out. 452 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,966 [ Telephone rings ] 453 00:26:14,966 --> 00:26:19,366 In the fall of 2000, I received a call from Sarah Jackson, 454 00:26:19,366 --> 00:26:21,533 who worked at the Art Loss Register. 455 00:26:21,533 --> 00:26:23,933 And Sarah and the Art Loss Register 456 00:26:23,933 --> 00:26:26,133 were working for the Fischer family, 457 00:26:26,133 --> 00:26:29,433 trying to track down artworks looted by the Nazis. 458 00:26:29,433 --> 00:26:32,800 Sarah had found some crucial evidence in her research. 459 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,833 She was looking for a painting by Camille Pissarro 460 00:26:35,833 --> 00:26:38,000 and had discovered it had been exhibited 461 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,166 in Switzerland in 1984. 462 00:26:45,533 --> 00:26:49,033 -Samuel Fischer was one of the most important publishers 463 00:26:49,033 --> 00:26:51,400 in pre-war Germany. 464 00:26:52,633 --> 00:26:56,700 The Fischer family moved to Vienna. 465 00:26:57,866 --> 00:27:00,966 But when the Nazis took over Austria, 466 00:27:00,966 --> 00:27:05,200 the so-called "Anschluss," the Fischer family went into exile 467 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,500 and had to leave everything behind. 468 00:27:09,233 --> 00:27:11,466 So, the works of art there, 469 00:27:11,466 --> 00:27:13,233 amongst them the Pissarro painting, 470 00:27:13,233 --> 00:27:17,300 have been seized by the authorities. 471 00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:19,333 After the war, 472 00:27:19,333 --> 00:27:22,633 the son of Samuel Fischer tried to locate that painting. 473 00:27:22,633 --> 00:27:26,000 There was a kind of brochure to search for it, 474 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,600 but without any success. 475 00:27:31,366 --> 00:27:34,133 Gisela Fischer, the daughter of Gottfried Bermann Fischer, 476 00:27:34,133 --> 00:27:37,566 continued the search. 477 00:27:37,566 --> 00:27:40,033 -The family was really obsessed with this picture. 478 00:27:40,033 --> 00:27:43,400 It had the qualities almost of a talisman, one could say, 479 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,400 but it had added significance, I think, 480 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,600 because Camille Pissarro was a 481 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,400 Jewish French Impressionist painter, 482 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,366 and this was one of his last pictures. 483 00:27:56,666 --> 00:28:00,066 The 1984 exhibition was organized by someone 484 00:28:00,066 --> 00:28:02,300 with close ties to the Wildensteins, 485 00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,900 and a number of the pictures in the exhibition 486 00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:07,600 came from the Wildensteins. 487 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,133 But when she dug deeper, 488 00:28:09,133 --> 00:28:11,700 she found that the lender of this Pissarro 489 00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:15,733 was the Fondation Bruno, or the Bruno Foundation. 490 00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:20,000 Seeing that name, 491 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,100 I went to Bruno and posed the question, you know, 492 00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:24,733 "Do you have anything to do with the Fondation Bruno?" 493 00:28:26,766 --> 00:28:29,800 Lohse looked me straight in the eye and he said, "No." 494 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,266 You know, "Do you think I would be so foolish 495 00:28:33,266 --> 00:28:36,000 as to put a foundation in my own name?" 496 00:28:37,333 --> 00:28:41,033 In fact, for five years, I asked about the picture. 497 00:28:41,033 --> 00:28:43,666 Sometimes, he would preempt me and he said, 498 00:28:43,666 --> 00:28:46,400 "Are you going to ask about the damn Pissarro picture again? 499 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,366 "Das verdammt der  Pissarro-bild?" 500 00:28:48,366 --> 00:28:51,333 I have nothing to do with it. I've never seen it." 501 00:29:05,766 --> 00:29:07,566 But then, in December 2006, 502 00:29:07,566 --> 00:29:10,733 Griebert's attitude changed markedly, 503 00:29:10,733 --> 00:29:15,600 and he seemed very upset by the fact that 504 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,800 Lohse appeared to have something 505 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,600 to do with this Nazi looted art. 506 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,266 And he vowed that he would assist me in this quest. 507 00:29:24,966 --> 00:29:26,566 Ah, here it is. 508 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,066 This is the letter that Peter Griebert gave me 509 00:29:31,066 --> 00:29:32,566 in December 2006. 510 00:29:32,566 --> 00:29:36,366 Dated 2nd of July 1957. 511 00:29:36,366 --> 00:29:38,833 It's written by a Dr. F. Schoeni, 512 00:29:38,833 --> 00:29:40,633 an attorney in Zurich. 513 00:29:40,633 --> 00:29:42,600 And Schoeni writes to Lohse, 514 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,500 "I hereby confirm that you acquired for me 515 00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:50,233 in Berlin the painting by Pissarro, 516 00:29:50,233 --> 00:29:55,300 'Le Quai malaquais,' formerly in the Fischer Collection." 517 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,566 When Griebert gave me this document, I was stunned. 518 00:30:00,666 --> 00:30:03,266 Here's clear proof that Bruno had something 519 00:30:03,266 --> 00:30:05,233 to do with the Fischer Pissarro. 520 00:30:05,233 --> 00:30:07,266 And he knows it's a Fischer Pissarro because Fischer, 521 00:30:07,266 --> 00:30:12,066 the name is there, even though Fischer is slightly misspelled. 522 00:30:12,066 --> 00:30:15,166 The "C" is missing there. 523 00:30:15,166 --> 00:30:18,300 I was upset because it was, you know, evident to me 524 00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:20,766 that Lohse had lied to me about this picture. 525 00:30:23,833 --> 00:30:28,933 I started asking myself, who is this Frédéric Schoeni? 526 00:30:28,933 --> 00:30:31,733 Schoeni had died in the early 1980s, 527 00:30:31,733 --> 00:30:33,700 but as I researched further, 528 00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:37,166 I found Schoeni had worked for not just the Wildensteins, 529 00:30:37,166 --> 00:30:42,200 but also Walter Andreas Hofer, the rival of Lohse, 530 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,400 Karl Haberstock, 531 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,700 who had helped expropriate the art of the Goodman family; 532 00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:48,700 Hans Wendland, 533 00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:53,500 who engaged in a number of trades with Lohse and the ERR. 534 00:30:53,500 --> 00:30:56,466 That, to me, was extraordinary, I mean, even explosive. 535 00:30:56,466 --> 00:30:58,566 I thought to myself, "Oh, my. 536 00:30:58,566 --> 00:31:03,200 This is quite a list here of Schoeni's clients." 537 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,433 -It's a small world. 538 00:31:05,433 --> 00:31:08,933 It always ends up being a small world. 539 00:31:17,633 --> 00:31:22,400 -Griebert called me and he asked, could I come to Zurich? 540 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,433 He had learned that Frédéric Schoeni 541 00:31:25,433 --> 00:31:27,600 had had several children, 542 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,000 who had created this foundation of heirs 543 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,400 that controlled the Fischer Pissarro, this trust, 544 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,000 and that they, as a first step, 545 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,600 were prepared to let me examine the picture. 546 00:31:40,833 --> 00:31:42,733 I thought this was extraordinary. 547 00:31:42,733 --> 00:31:45,233 I finally get to see this looted artwork 548 00:31:45,233 --> 00:31:48,100 that had been missing for half a century. 549 00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:52,233 Griebert told me that the picture was brought 550 00:31:52,233 --> 00:31:55,666 from Liechtenstein to the bank in Zurich 551 00:31:55,666 --> 00:31:58,566 by one of the heirs that day 552 00:31:58,566 --> 00:32:02,000 and that it was just going to stay there in the bank 553 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,833 for one day for my inspection. 554 00:32:24,166 --> 00:32:28,133 I followed him into the bank, and he then informed me 555 00:32:28,133 --> 00:32:30,133 that we were going to inspect the painting 556 00:32:30,133 --> 00:32:32,133 in a conference room. 557 00:32:33,066 --> 00:32:38,266 And there, sitting on the chair, was the Fischer Pissarro. 558 00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:56,833 It was magnificent. It had this glow to it. 559 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,033 It's a very special picture. 560 00:33:06,033 --> 00:33:08,166 And for this Jewish artist, 561 00:33:08,166 --> 00:33:12,033 there was other layers of poignancy for me. 562 00:33:12,033 --> 00:33:14,733 The picture was painted in 1901, 563 00:33:14,733 --> 00:33:18,566 during the outburst of anti-Semitism in France. 564 00:33:18,566 --> 00:33:21,033 He no longer felt safe in Paris, 565 00:33:21,033 --> 00:33:24,500 and so he retreated upstairs to safer spaces. 566 00:33:26,633 --> 00:33:30,466 And this picture was from the room in which he died. 567 00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:49,166 Griebert was assuring me -- he says, 568 00:33:49,166 --> 00:33:51,333 "Look, the heirs are being cooperative. 569 00:33:51,333 --> 00:33:54,266 They're prepared to undertake restitution." 570 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,666 And so the beginnings of a kind of settlement 571 00:33:59,666 --> 00:34:02,566 seem to emerge at this moment. 572 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,133 She had a dental appointment, 573 00:34:11,133 --> 00:34:13,166 and after her dentist appointment, 574 00:34:13,166 --> 00:34:15,266 she was going to pick it up and take it back to Liechtenstein. 575 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,066 After I had inspected the Fischer Pissarro 576 00:34:24,066 --> 00:34:27,233 and we had seemingly come to an agreement, 577 00:34:27,233 --> 00:34:29,633 things began to unravel. 578 00:34:30,933 --> 00:34:34,400 The foundation that controlled the Fischer Pissarro 579 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,266 wanted 5% of the value of the picture 580 00:34:38,266 --> 00:34:40,500 if they were going to return it, 581 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:44,333 and Gisela Fischer found that objectionable. 582 00:34:44,333 --> 00:34:47,100 And so she asked me to go meet the representatives 583 00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:48,333 of the foundation. 584 00:34:50,333 --> 00:34:54,733 So Griebert and I set off to Liechtenstein. 585 00:34:59,666 --> 00:35:05,366 But I got a sense that things might not be so straightforward. 586 00:35:06,866 --> 00:35:09,233 Griebert said we had to turn off our cellphones, 587 00:35:09,233 --> 00:35:11,366 and he was concerned about surveillance 588 00:35:11,366 --> 00:35:14,500 by the German authorities. 589 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,400 And the fact that Griebert said we had to take these measures 590 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,066 seemed dodgy to me. 591 00:35:20,666 --> 00:35:23,800 -In 200 meters,  you have arrived. 592 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,866 -The headquarters of the foundation 593 00:35:25,866 --> 00:35:28,366 was truly unremarkable. 594 00:35:29,733 --> 00:35:32,366 -Destination reached. 595 00:35:32,366 --> 00:35:35,166 -So, you can see it's really tucked away. 596 00:35:35,166 --> 00:35:37,600 And we walked down some steps. 597 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,633 And as I approached the door, I saw a brass plaque. 598 00:35:41,633 --> 00:35:44,900 And, for the first time, I saw the name Schoenart. 599 00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:47,166 And I recall thinking to myself, 600 00:35:47,166 --> 00:35:50,266 "Ah, Frédéric Schoeni, Schoenart, that makes sense. 601 00:35:50,266 --> 00:35:53,566 That's the name of the foundation." 602 00:35:53,566 --> 00:35:55,900 So, I came in and met the two lawyers, 603 00:35:55,900 --> 00:36:00,800 Andrew Baker and Stefan Metzler, and we proceeded to talk. 604 00:36:02,866 --> 00:36:05,700 You know, they're professional and they're polished. 605 00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:10,266 And so, you know, my alarm bells don't go off. 606 00:36:10,266 --> 00:36:13,133 A little bit later, an elderly lady arrived. 607 00:36:13,133 --> 00:36:18,566 She was the president of the foundation, a Milly Sele-Vogt. 608 00:36:21,633 --> 00:36:24,433 Griebert and Milly Sele-Vogt had this tradition 609 00:36:24,433 --> 00:36:27,733 that he would bring Bavarian sausage, weisswurst, 610 00:36:27,733 --> 00:36:31,100 down, and she would give him in return Swiss sausage. 611 00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:32,966 She was a character, 612 00:36:32,966 --> 00:36:35,600 but she seemed quite credible and she maintained 613 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,033 to me that the foundation was controlled 614 00:36:38,033 --> 00:36:39,900 by Frédéric Schoeni's children. 615 00:36:43,166 --> 00:36:44,900 I felt that, you know, we were making progress 616 00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:47,700 and that I was helping restitute this picture. 617 00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:49,633 You know, I felt satisfaction 618 00:36:49,633 --> 00:36:51,566 that I was advancing the process. 619 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:54,300 And at the end of our meeting, 620 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:57,366 Peter Griebert did something that surprised me. 621 00:36:57,366 --> 00:37:01,433 He reached into his briefcase and he pulled out two dossiers 622 00:37:01,433 --> 00:37:04,200 and he handed them to the attorneys and said, 623 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,233 "Here are two pictures, one by Monet 624 00:37:07,233 --> 00:37:09,566 and one by Auguste Renoir. 625 00:37:09,566 --> 00:37:13,500 Does the foundation have these pictures?" 626 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:16,133 And they said, "Yes, we have these pictures." 627 00:37:16,133 --> 00:37:18,233 And Griebert said, you know, 628 00:37:18,233 --> 00:37:20,233 "We would like to have a commission to restitute them. 629 00:37:20,233 --> 00:37:22,433 I think that they are looted, as well." 630 00:37:22,433 --> 00:37:26,066 And, again, this had caught me completely by surprise. 631 00:37:26,066 --> 00:37:27,733 Griebert hadn't tipped me off in the slightest. 632 00:37:27,733 --> 00:37:29,633 But, of course, I was excited. 633 00:37:29,633 --> 00:37:31,366 You know, a Monet and a Renoir 634 00:37:31,366 --> 00:37:33,366 and a chance to restitute two more pictures 635 00:37:33,366 --> 00:37:35,200 from this foundation. 636 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,400 I thought that was very positive news. 637 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,833 Of course, in hindsight, 638 00:37:40,833 --> 00:37:43,633 the sausage exchange should have tipped me off. 639 00:37:43,633 --> 00:37:45,766 If Griebert and Milly Sele-Vogt 640 00:37:45,766 --> 00:37:47,766 were exchanging sausages over the years, 641 00:37:47,766 --> 00:37:49,633 obviously they knew each other 642 00:37:49,633 --> 00:37:52,000 and obviously this was a setup of some kind, right? 643 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,900 But at the time, I just couldn't process 644 00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:56,400 and appreciate all of this. 645 00:38:05,166 --> 00:38:09,033 At that time, I was aware that Frau Fischer was requesting 646 00:38:09,033 --> 00:38:11,066 that the Bavarian authorities go to Lohse 647 00:38:11,066 --> 00:38:14,666 and make him answer questions about the Fischer Pissarro. 648 00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:20,033 But now Lohse was also being investigated 649 00:38:20,033 --> 00:38:23,566 for the death of August Liebmann Mayer. 650 00:38:24,966 --> 00:38:27,866 -Mayer was a German Jewish art historian 651 00:38:27,866 --> 00:38:29,533 who had emigrated to Paris, 652 00:38:29,533 --> 00:38:35,366 and during the war, he had been hunted by the ERR. 653 00:38:35,366 --> 00:38:38,733 And this is what Lohse did. 654 00:38:38,733 --> 00:38:43,766 So, Mayer was arrested, was interrogated. 655 00:38:43,766 --> 00:38:49,433 And I would say the minute that Lohse, after the interrogations, 656 00:38:49,433 --> 00:38:51,466 came to the conclusion 657 00:38:51,466 --> 00:38:53,800 that he would get no further information from Mayer, 658 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,166 he was deported to Auschwitz, where he was murdered. 659 00:39:00,766 --> 00:39:03,266 -And here's a copy from the Munich prosecutor's 660 00:39:03,266 --> 00:39:08,066 office of the investigation that was ongoing into the murder 661 00:39:08,066 --> 00:39:10,966 of the art historian August Liebmann Mayer. 662 00:39:15,166 --> 00:39:17,166 And so, you know, 663 00:39:17,166 --> 00:39:19,200 I think Lohse was becoming increasingly nervous 664 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,033 because his past was closing in on him. 665 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,733 -They call it the Demjanjuk drama, 666 00:39:24,733 --> 00:39:27,200 a trial that is magnetizing the nation, 667 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,900 the appetite to hear the Holocaust tragedy growing 668 00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:31,333 as events unfold. 669 00:39:31,333 --> 00:39:34,633 -I mean, in 2006, Lohse had every reason 670 00:39:34,633 --> 00:39:37,366 to be concerned about justice knocking on his door. 671 00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:41,033 -It was not lost upon him 672 00:39:41,033 --> 00:39:43,333 that there were other elderly perpetrators 673 00:39:43,333 --> 00:39:45,066 who were being brought to account. 674 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,000 -You know, can we find some of these perpetrators? 675 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,633 Can we bring them into the courtroom? 676 00:39:57,266 --> 00:39:59,733 -So, I knew the Bavarian authorities were looking into 677 00:39:59,733 --> 00:40:02,666 filing charges for murder against Lohse. 678 00:40:02,666 --> 00:40:06,500 And I could see the pressure mounting on Lohse. 679 00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:11,766 Then, in 2006, after a particularly intense discussion, 680 00:40:11,766 --> 00:40:13,966 Peter Griebert took me outside and he said, 681 00:40:13,966 --> 00:40:16,533 "Jonathan, you don't realize how dark, 682 00:40:16,533 --> 00:40:18,533 how sinister Lohse really is. 683 00:40:18,533 --> 00:40:20,300 Let me tell you a story." 684 00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:23,933 And he recounted the tragic history of the Gutmann family. 685 00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:29,966 The Gutmanns, who had been living in Netherlands 686 00:40:29,966 --> 00:40:31,933 and in exchange for relinquishing 687 00:40:31,933 --> 00:40:34,133 their art collection 688 00:40:34,133 --> 00:40:39,233 and their property, had been promised safe passage to Italy. 689 00:40:39,233 --> 00:40:41,300 -All of these stories are tragic, 690 00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:44,266 but in the case of the Gutmanns, it's probably more tragic 691 00:40:44,266 --> 00:40:46,266 because there was pure deception. 692 00:40:47,133 --> 00:40:51,266 They still had this wonderful silverware collection, 693 00:40:51,266 --> 00:40:55,233 and Goering wanted, terribly, this collection. 694 00:40:55,233 --> 00:40:58,233 So he would not stop at anything 695 00:40:58,233 --> 00:41:00,666 in order to get whatever he wanted. 696 00:41:00,666 --> 00:41:03,000 And the only way that they could get 697 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,433 it was by offering them a fake safe conduct 698 00:41:06,433 --> 00:41:09,600 to join their daughter in Florence. 699 00:41:10,533 --> 00:41:14,266 -Mussolini himself had signed an entry visa. 700 00:41:14,266 --> 00:41:16,533 So this is where they thought they were going. 701 00:41:16,533 --> 00:41:20,133 Instead, the train took them to Berlin. 702 00:41:22,533 --> 00:41:26,666 So, there's a whole slew of top-ranking Nazis 703 00:41:26,666 --> 00:41:32,066 on the platform greeting my grandparents as they arrive. 704 00:41:36,333 --> 00:41:38,333 Amongst them 705 00:41:38,333 --> 00:41:42,266 was an SS officer representing Hermann Goering 706 00:41:42,266 --> 00:41:47,733 and Seyss-Inquart, the Nazi governor of the Netherlands. 707 00:41:48,766 --> 00:41:51,833 This was quite a reception committee. 708 00:41:56,833 --> 00:41:58,666 -According to Griebert, 709 00:41:58,666 --> 00:42:00,933 the Gutmanns were taken away for interrogation. 710 00:42:02,333 --> 00:42:04,933 Fritz Gutmann was beaten very badly 711 00:42:04,933 --> 00:42:10,466 as the Gestapo tries to induce him to sign over the silver. 712 00:42:10,466 --> 00:42:14,700 -So, my grandfather refuses to sign this contract. 713 00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:16,700 My grandparents are put on another train, 714 00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:21,700 not such a nice train, with a new SS escort. 715 00:42:21,700 --> 00:42:25,166 And this train takes them to the concentration camp. 716 00:42:25,166 --> 00:42:28,766 -Peter Griebert became extraordinarily emotional, 717 00:42:28,766 --> 00:42:31,266 and with tears running down his cheeks, he said to me, 718 00:42:31,266 --> 00:42:34,800 "When the train arrived at the Berlin station, 719 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,300 who was the representative of Goering? 720 00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:40,766 Bruno Lohse." 721 00:42:40,766 --> 00:42:43,633 And that Lohse was not only at the station, 722 00:42:43,633 --> 00:42:45,633 but, in fact, Lohse was standing in the back 723 00:42:45,633 --> 00:42:49,133 of the interrogation room watching this all transpire. 724 00:43:03,133 --> 00:43:05,866 -This was my grandfather's cell. 725 00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:18,500 My aunt went to the station every morning in Florence, 726 00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:20,000 waiting for the train. 727 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,966 And my grandparents never arrived. 728 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,300 This is where my grandfather spent 729 00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:33,566 the last three weeks of his life. 730 00:43:34,833 --> 00:43:36,533 Oh, my God. 731 00:43:36,533 --> 00:43:39,533 And then, pretty much on the last day of April, 732 00:43:39,533 --> 00:43:45,100 he was beaten to death by the guards, by the kapos. 733 00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:22,533 -With the authorities bearing down on him, 734 00:44:22,533 --> 00:44:25,700 Lohse was a man who doesn't want to end his life 735 00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:28,033 being interrogated about his past. 736 00:44:28,033 --> 00:44:30,866 It was also clear that he was scared. 737 00:44:32,066 --> 00:44:34,333 Then, March 2007, 738 00:44:34,333 --> 00:44:37,133 he claims that he's ill and needs to go to the hospital, 739 00:44:37,133 --> 00:44:40,733 and two days later, he was dead. 740 00:44:45,833 --> 00:44:49,566 Then one day, my telephone rang, and it was a Swiss journalist. 741 00:44:49,566 --> 00:44:51,433 Leo Mueller, his name was. 742 00:44:51,433 --> 00:44:55,966 And he was writing an article about a Swiss bank vault. 743 00:44:55,966 --> 00:44:57,633 And I said, "What kind of Swiss bank vault?" 744 00:44:57,633 --> 00:45:00,466 He says, "Well, it belonged to Bruno Lohse." 745 00:45:00,466 --> 00:45:02,766 And I said, "Lohse had a Swiss bank vault?" 746 00:45:02,766 --> 00:45:04,733 You know, I was shocked. I said, "Where?" 747 00:45:04,733 --> 00:45:07,133 And he said, "In the Zurich Cantonal Bank." 748 00:45:08,033 --> 00:45:10,500 immediately I realized, "Oh, my gosh, that's where we had met. 749 00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:12,933 I was right next door in the conference room." 750 00:45:12,933 --> 00:45:14,966 And I asked Mueller, 751 00:45:14,966 --> 00:45:16,966 "He had a bank vault, at Zurich Cantonal Bank?" 752 00:45:16,966 --> 00:45:18,566 And he said, "Absolutely." 753 00:45:18,566 --> 00:45:20,600 And it was filled with 14 pictures. 754 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,666 -I think we're talking about tens of millions 755 00:45:32,666 --> 00:45:35,466 of dollars worth of art. 756 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,666 -And, of course, the Fischer Pissarro. 757 00:45:45,666 --> 00:45:48,433 And when Leo Mueller told me that, I realized, 758 00:45:48,433 --> 00:45:49,833 "Oh, my goodness," you know, 759 00:45:49,833 --> 00:45:51,233 "the Pissarro belonged to Lohse." 760 00:45:51,233 --> 00:45:54,633 It was absolutely clear. 761 00:45:54,633 --> 00:45:57,166 Finally, this was clear proof 762 00:45:57,166 --> 00:46:01,966 that Lohse had been trafficking in Nazi looted art for decades. 763 00:46:03,866 --> 00:46:08,133 But, also, I knew at that point that I had been deceived. 764 00:46:09,533 --> 00:46:12,400 I realized that Peter Griebert had gone into the bank vault, 765 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,100 taken out the Fischer Pissarro, 766 00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:15,466 brought it into the conference room, 767 00:46:15,466 --> 00:46:19,166 and that everything else was theater. 768 00:46:19,166 --> 00:46:21,200 But then the news got worse. 769 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,833 I said, "I thought that the Fischer Pissarro belonged to 770 00:46:23,833 --> 00:46:25,733 Schoeni's children." 771 00:46:25,733 --> 00:46:28,666 Leo Mueller said, "There were no children. 772 00:46:28,666 --> 00:46:30,433 This was completely fabricated." 773 00:46:30,433 --> 00:46:33,500 And he said, "Well, let me tell you one thing. 774 00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:36,533 Schoenart did not belong to Frédéric Schoeni. 775 00:46:36,533 --> 00:46:39,600 Schoenart belonged to Bruno Lohse." 776 00:46:40,933 --> 00:46:44,500 I realized the scene in the Zurich Cantonal Bank 777 00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:46,600 about the artwork being dropped off there, 778 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,600 that that was completely false, 779 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,000 that the two days in Liechtenstein with this whole 780 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,033 team of lawyers, that was staged, 781 00:46:54,033 --> 00:46:56,000 and even where I'd pushed him 782 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,800 on the Fischer Pissarro and Griebert 783 00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,800 had joined me and seemed to be so angry, you know, 784 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,100 that also was a piece of theater, too. 785 00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:07,600 So I felt, you know, that I'd been had. 786 00:47:11,833 --> 00:47:15,500 -The whole point is that his ownership was cloaked. 787 00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:18,333 His relationship to Schoenart was cloaked. 788 00:47:18,333 --> 00:47:20,200 The presence of the painting was cloaked. 789 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,833 So it was virtually impossible 790 00:47:22,833 --> 00:47:27,133 for the outside world to pierce through the veil of secrecy. 791 00:47:27,133 --> 00:47:29,500 But that's precisely why it's set up that way. 792 00:48:15,366 --> 00:48:17,933 -We weren't at all surprised when we discovered that, 793 00:48:17,933 --> 00:48:21,400 yes, indeed, there were looted artworks in his bank vault. 794 00:48:23,066 --> 00:48:26,366 And, amongst them, a painting by Meerhout, a Dutch painter, 795 00:48:26,366 --> 00:48:28,933 that actually belonged to a Jewish family 796 00:48:28,933 --> 00:48:30,666 whom we represented -- 797 00:48:30,666 --> 00:48:33,566 the family of Alfons Jaffé and his wife. 798 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,766 When Lohse's bank vault was opened, 799 00:48:37,766 --> 00:48:42,500 they found that Lohse had a black leather-bound notebook 800 00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:44,833 in which he wrote down the history of some 801 00:48:44,833 --> 00:48:46,900 of these works of art, 802 00:48:46,900 --> 00:48:50,700 and the Meerhout painting was in there as a Jaffé painting. 803 00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:53,400 So he absolutely knew. 804 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,200 -Before that, 805 00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,766 I was always very skeptical about Nazi loot being hidden, 806 00:49:00,766 --> 00:49:02,800 you know, particularly in Swiss bank vaults. 807 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,933 I thought that was something for the movies. 808 00:49:05,933 --> 00:49:08,800 Of course, history proved me wrong, you know. 809 00:49:15,700 --> 00:49:17,700 -I went back to Liechtenstein 810 00:49:17,700 --> 00:49:19,733 and I confronted the lawyer, Andrew Baker, 811 00:49:19,733 --> 00:49:22,533 who was behind the foundation. 812 00:49:23,666 --> 00:49:28,166 I am with Andrew Baker.  It is the 26th of June. 813 00:49:28,166 --> 00:49:29,933 He may be guarded  in what he says. 814 00:49:29,933 --> 00:49:32,000 Saw Peter Griebert... 815 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,400 And he admitted that he had participated 816 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,633 in the staged meeting with Milly Sele-Vogt. 817 00:49:37,633 --> 00:49:40,166 -And the whole meeting was  a bit of a surprise 818 00:49:40,166 --> 00:49:41,366 and a revelation. 819 00:49:41,366 --> 00:49:42,833 -Okay. Alright. 820 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,233 I also wanted to know what happened to the other paintings 821 00:49:47,233 --> 00:49:50,600 that Griebert suspected were looted, as well, 822 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,533 but we don't know for sure. 823 00:49:52,533 --> 00:49:56,200 There was  a Renoir and a Monet, right? 824 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:57,600 -Correct.  -Right. 825 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,600 What's happened to them? 826 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,166 -We've sold them privately,  but we tried to auction them. 827 00:50:03,166 --> 00:50:05,100 The auction houses  eventually wouldn't take them. 828 00:50:05,100 --> 00:50:06,966 They were interested, 829 00:50:06,966 --> 00:50:10,100 but there was a slight hole  in the provenance. 830 00:50:11,066 --> 00:50:14,900 Because of their history, 831 00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:18,033 we got less than we probably  would have done at auction. 832 00:50:18,033 --> 00:50:21,466 -Okay. What part of the world  did they go to? 833 00:50:21,466 --> 00:50:25,200 -I do not know. We delivered  them in Switzerland. 834 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,800 Where they went after  that, I do not know. 835 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,533 -And so, I, of course, tried to look into the foundation, 836 00:50:32,533 --> 00:50:35,033 and one thing that I saw that was interesting is 837 00:50:35,033 --> 00:50:38,266 how it subsequently evolved. 838 00:50:38,266 --> 00:50:41,300 The Schoenart foundation became something called 839 00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:43,733 the Ille Foundation, 840 00:50:43,733 --> 00:50:47,100 and that was connected to an entity called Miselva. 841 00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:49,100 And that, in turn, 842 00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:51,800 was related to something called The Griffin Trust. 843 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:53,966 And I immediately got the sense of the way these -- 844 00:50:53,966 --> 00:50:56,500 you know, these tax shelters, you know, 845 00:50:56,500 --> 00:50:59,666 these schemes at tax evasions, how elaborate they get. 846 00:51:00,700 --> 00:51:04,700 I have subsequently read about Miselva and The Griffin Trust, 847 00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:07,866 and the accusations are very damaging, right? 848 00:51:07,866 --> 00:51:12,100 They're accused of concealing assets for Russian oligarchs. 849 00:51:12,100 --> 00:51:15,333 It's been reported that an ex-employee of Miselva 850 00:51:15,333 --> 00:51:17,433 was even implicated in a scheme 851 00:51:17,433 --> 00:51:21,033 to smuggle some nuclear materials, right? 852 00:51:21,033 --> 00:51:22,666 And so, you know, 853 00:51:22,666 --> 00:51:25,200 they were mentioned in the Panama Papers, as well. 854 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:31,933 And so, yeah, it's a very interesting operation. 855 00:51:31,933 --> 00:51:38,266 -I think the art world is only comparable 856 00:51:38,266 --> 00:51:40,400 to two other types of markets -- 857 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,700 to the weapons/arms market and the drug market. 858 00:51:46,933 --> 00:51:52,233 These are international markets that are not controlled at all. 859 00:51:52,233 --> 00:51:54,366 -If you happen to be, you know, 860 00:51:54,366 --> 00:51:57,900 in possession of a work of art that has a Nazi past, 861 00:51:57,900 --> 00:52:03,266 as long as your name, you know, is unavailable to anybody, 862 00:52:03,266 --> 00:52:06,066 you're fairly free to do whatever you want 863 00:52:06,066 --> 00:52:07,900 with the work of art. 864 00:52:07,900 --> 00:52:10,300 -Some 90% of the works of art 865 00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:13,766 that people are looking for still can't be found. 866 00:52:13,766 --> 00:52:15,966 -If Lohse's life is indicative of anything, 867 00:52:15,966 --> 00:52:18,500 it's indicative of the fact that the crime of plunder 868 00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:21,300 pays for itself and most of the people who committed it 869 00:52:21,300 --> 00:52:22,966 were able to go off scot-free 870 00:52:22,966 --> 00:52:24,533 and enjoy the rest of their existence. 871 00:52:24,533 --> 00:52:27,533 So, in other words, if I'm going to recommend 872 00:52:27,533 --> 00:52:30,800 any crime against humanity, it's the crime of plunder. 873 00:52:33,366 --> 00:52:36,900 -I do have one defining memory of Bruno Lohse. 874 00:52:37,966 --> 00:52:40,833 I asked him, "How would you characterize your life? 875 00:52:40,833 --> 00:52:41,966 How would you sum up?" 876 00:52:41,966 --> 00:52:43,666 And he looked at me, 877 00:52:43,666 --> 00:52:45,500 and there was kind of a sparkle in his eye. 878 00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:48,066 And he laughed and his head went back a little bit 879 00:52:48,066 --> 00:52:51,033 and he started to sing a very famous song, 880 00:52:51,033 --> 00:52:53,700 "Je Ne Regrette Rien." 881 00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:56,600 "I Regret Nothing." 882 00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:52,800 ♪♪ 883 00:53:56,666 --> 00:54:05,200 ♪♪ 884 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:06,566 -"Plunderer" is available 885 00:54:06,566 --> 00:54:08,133 with PBS Passport 886 00:54:08,133 --> 00:54:11,100 and on Amazon Prime Video. 887 00:54:14,333 --> 00:54:22,133 ♪♪