1 00:00:03,259 --> 00:00:05,190 announcer: The following is a presentation 2 00:00:05,209 --> 00:00:07,139 of HBO Sports. 3 00:00:11,009 --> 00:00:13,289 [dramatic music] 4 00:00:14,009 --> 00:00:20,059 ♪ ♪ 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,070 - Tonight on "Real Sports"... 6 00:00:23,089 --> 00:00:25,269 It's been called the most dangerous eight seconds 7 00:00:25,289 --> 00:00:27,030 in sports... 8 00:00:27,050 --> 00:00:28,160 - Oh, boy! 9 00:00:28,179 --> 00:00:29,199 - Bull riding. 10 00:00:29,219 --> 00:00:31,149 It's commonly a clash of wills 11 00:00:31,170 --> 00:00:33,240 involving wild beasts and grown men. 12 00:00:33,259 --> 00:00:35,170 So why are little boys, 13 00:00:35,189 --> 00:00:37,009 some as young as eight years old... 14 00:00:37,030 --> 00:00:39,049 - Here goes Isaac! 15 00:00:39,070 --> 00:00:42,060 - Riding bulls more than ten times their size? 16 00:00:42,079 --> 00:00:43,159 - It's not like football. 17 00:00:43,179 --> 00:00:47,079 Running down the field and trying not to get hit, 18 00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:48,130 that's football. 19 00:00:48,149 --> 00:00:49,289 That sucks for you. 20 00:00:50,009 --> 00:00:51,289 You got to at least do something fun. 21 00:00:52,009 --> 00:00:53,170 Bull riding's fun. 22 00:00:53,189 --> 00:00:56,009 - Sports journalism isn't supposed to be 23 00:00:56,030 --> 00:00:59,130 a hazardous profession, but for female reporters, 24 00:00:59,149 --> 00:01:02,100 working the job in a male-dominated industry 25 00:01:02,119 --> 00:01:04,280 can range from difficult to horrifying. 26 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,079 Now some of those women are speaking out 27 00:01:07,099 --> 00:01:10,120 about what they say is a culture of objectification 28 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:11,210 and sexual harassment. 29 00:01:11,230 --> 00:01:14,189 - He said that I had a great ass for a little white girl. 30 00:01:14,210 --> 00:01:17,090 And half of me was going, 31 00:01:17,109 --> 00:01:19,200 "How is it possibly okay for you to say that to me?" 32 00:01:19,219 --> 00:01:23,030 Another half was going, "There's people around-- 33 00:01:23,049 --> 00:01:25,000 Like, somebody's gonna see." 34 00:01:25,019 --> 00:01:26,039 ♪ ♪ 35 00:01:26,060 --> 00:01:29,039 - Scenes of athletes protesting social injustice 36 00:01:29,060 --> 00:01:31,180 have become commonplace around the globe. 37 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,159 Yet the International Olympic Committee has chosen 38 00:01:34,180 --> 00:01:38,000 to ban all such displays at the upcoming games in Tokyo. 39 00:01:38,020 --> 00:01:40,170 It's a policy that is already being met with disbelief 40 00:01:40,189 --> 00:01:43,079 and derision by some of those American athletes 41 00:01:43,099 --> 00:01:45,109 who figure to make it to the medal stand. 42 00:01:45,129 --> 00:01:47,020 - If it is scaring people, 43 00:01:47,039 --> 00:01:48,219 then that's a good thing, right? 44 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,079 That means there's something important about protesting. 45 00:01:51,099 --> 00:01:53,109 There's something important about speaking 46 00:01:53,129 --> 00:01:55,250 when no one wants to hear what's being spoken. 47 00:01:55,270 --> 00:01:57,150 ♪ ♪ 48 00:01:57,170 --> 00:01:59,009 - Tommy Morrissey is one of the best 49 00:01:59,030 --> 00:02:02,019 young baseball players on his Florida Little League team. 50 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,170 Not bad for a kid born with one arm. 51 00:02:04,189 --> 00:02:07,030 It's just the latest of many achievements 52 00:02:07,049 --> 00:02:08,120 for a boy we first met 53 00:02:08,139 --> 00:02:10,289 when he was dominating his junior golf circuit 54 00:02:11,009 --> 00:02:12,139 at the age of seven. 55 00:02:12,159 --> 00:02:14,259 - They say you have the perfect swing. 56 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,009 - Well, that is true. 57 00:02:18,030 --> 00:02:19,150 - How is it that 58 00:02:19,170 --> 00:02:23,259 a seven-year-old boy can drive the ball 200 yards? 59 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:24,259 - I don't know. 60 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:31,289 ♪ ♪ 61 00:02:34,289 --> 00:02:38,099 announcer: And now your host, Bryant Gumbel. 62 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,210 ♪ ♪ 63 00:02:39,229 --> 00:02:42,129 - Good evening and welcome to "Real Sports," 64 00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:44,210 where we begin tonight with another story 65 00:02:44,229 --> 00:02:46,240 that raises long-standing questions 66 00:02:46,259 --> 00:02:48,009 about what sporting risks 67 00:02:48,030 --> 00:02:50,090 children should be allowed to take, 68 00:02:50,110 --> 00:02:54,050 even with parental consent or even parental encouragement. 69 00:02:54,069 --> 00:02:57,129 Only this time, the story isn't about football or boxing. 70 00:02:57,150 --> 00:02:59,079 It's about mini bull riding, 71 00:02:59,099 --> 00:03:03,009 a rodeo event in which children as young as eight years old 72 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:05,189 try their hand at doing the kind of dangerous stuff 73 00:03:05,210 --> 00:03:08,169 that is generally reserved for grown men. 74 00:03:08,189 --> 00:03:10,150 While the bulls they ride are smaller than the ones 75 00:03:10,169 --> 00:03:11,219 in the grown-up ranks, 76 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,189 they're still many times the weight of the youngsters, 77 00:03:14,210 --> 00:03:17,110 who, just like the big boys, are asked to risk everything 78 00:03:17,129 --> 00:03:20,120 when the gates open and the ride begins. 79 00:03:20,139 --> 00:03:24,270 Our Jon Frankel has more on some little cowboy wannabes. 80 00:03:24,289 --> 00:03:26,039 - [indistinct PA announcement] 81 00:03:26,060 --> 00:03:27,189 [indistinct shouting] 82 00:03:27,210 --> 00:03:30,000 - Keep riding, keep riding! Hustle! 83 00:03:30,020 --> 00:03:32,250 - It's known as the toughest eight seconds in sports... 84 00:03:32,270 --> 00:03:34,250 [audience exclaims, person shouts] 85 00:03:34,270 --> 00:03:36,090 Man versus bull... 86 00:03:36,110 --> 00:03:38,280 with life and limb on the line. 87 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,240 - Oh! [audience exclaims] 88 00:03:40,259 --> 00:03:42,159 - Those who can complete the ride 89 00:03:42,180 --> 00:03:44,189 are hailed as the world's best... 90 00:03:44,210 --> 00:03:46,240 - We have seen history! 91 00:03:46,259 --> 00:03:48,289 - Celebrated before packed arenas 92 00:03:49,009 --> 00:03:51,180 and national television audiences. 93 00:03:51,199 --> 00:03:53,180 Those who can't... 94 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:55,219 - Oh. Mm. - Oh, boy! 95 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,030 Insult and then injury. - Oh, no. Oh, no. 96 00:03:59,050 --> 00:04:02,090 - It's a dangerous game, so it may surprise you 97 00:04:02,110 --> 00:04:05,150 that it's not just adults testing their grit, 98 00:04:05,169 --> 00:04:07,000 but kids, too. 99 00:04:07,020 --> 00:04:09,030 - And how about that? 100 00:04:09,050 --> 00:04:11,210 - Welcome to the world of miniature bull riding... 101 00:04:11,229 --> 00:04:13,080 - What an effort! 102 00:04:13,099 --> 00:04:15,250 - A youth sport featuring little cowboys 103 00:04:15,270 --> 00:04:18,000 and not-so-little bulls. 104 00:04:18,019 --> 00:04:19,160 - Oh, oh, whoa! 105 00:04:19,180 --> 00:04:23,069 - Here, children weighing as little as 60 pounds 106 00:04:23,089 --> 00:04:26,000 mount bulls that weigh up to 1,000 107 00:04:26,019 --> 00:04:28,139 and try to hold on for the ride. 108 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,090 Cade, when you get on a bull, what do you think about? 109 00:04:32,110 --> 00:04:33,120 - Once I get on that bull, 110 00:04:33,139 --> 00:04:36,060 all I think about is that eight seconds. 111 00:04:36,079 --> 00:04:37,060 - And, Carson, 112 00:04:37,079 --> 00:04:39,090 have you mastered the bull when that happens? 113 00:04:39,110 --> 00:04:40,090 - Yeah. 114 00:04:40,110 --> 00:04:41,170 Yep, you master him, 115 00:04:41,189 --> 00:04:45,069 or if he bucks you off, he masters you, I guess. 116 00:04:45,090 --> 00:04:47,079 - 11-year-old Carson Rodrigue 117 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:49,000 and his brother, eight-year-old Cade, 118 00:04:49,019 --> 00:04:51,100 are two of bull riding's rising stars. 119 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,159 - That's okay, that's okay! 120 00:04:53,180 --> 00:04:57,259 - Everybody says football is the hardest sport in the world. 121 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,209 You're not thinking the right way. 122 00:04:59,230 --> 00:05:02,139 You got to think about bull riding a little bit more. 123 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,000 - Bull riding, like, football doesn't even compare? 124 00:05:05,019 --> 00:05:06,000 - Yeah. 125 00:05:06,019 --> 00:05:08,029 It's not like just football. 126 00:05:08,050 --> 00:05:11,269 Running down the field and trying not to get hit, 127 00:05:11,290 --> 00:05:13,040 that's football. 128 00:05:13,060 --> 00:05:14,160 That sucks for you. 129 00:05:14,180 --> 00:05:16,209 You got to at least do something fun. 130 00:05:16,230 --> 00:05:18,050 Bull riding's fun. 131 00:05:18,069 --> 00:05:19,209 - For Cade and Carson, 132 00:05:19,230 --> 00:05:22,069 who train here at the family ranch in Louisiana... 133 00:05:22,089 --> 00:05:23,120 - Hustle, hustle... 134 00:05:23,139 --> 00:05:25,089 - It's more than just fun, it's a way of life. 135 00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:26,199 - Keep riding, keep riding! 136 00:05:26,220 --> 00:05:28,129 - Their big brother, Jay, 137 00:05:28,149 --> 00:05:30,189 is an established star in the sport, 138 00:05:30,209 --> 00:05:34,069 a seasoned old hand at the age of 14. 139 00:05:34,090 --> 00:05:35,230 - Ready? [gate creaks] 140 00:05:35,250 --> 00:05:37,199 Hey, hey, hey, hey! Hustle! 141 00:05:37,220 --> 00:05:38,199 Front hand, front hand! 142 00:05:38,220 --> 00:05:40,000 - And all three brothers are coached 143 00:05:40,019 --> 00:05:41,269 by their father, Eddie. - Keep riding! 144 00:05:41,290 --> 00:05:44,110 I look at it as a way to just keep our family together 145 00:05:44,129 --> 00:05:45,240 and have fun as a family. 146 00:05:45,259 --> 00:05:47,240 - Is that what this is about? This is just-- 147 00:05:47,259 --> 00:05:49,250 this is no different than going out to the ballpark? 148 00:05:49,269 --> 00:05:50,290 - That's pretty much it. 149 00:05:51,009 --> 00:05:52,250 When the boys started wanting to rodeo 150 00:05:52,269 --> 00:05:55,050 and they starting doing good, we just got all-in 151 00:05:55,069 --> 00:05:57,279 like a family playing baseball that does travel ball. 152 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,110 - Like families that travel for youth sports, 153 00:06:01,129 --> 00:06:03,120 the Rodrigues and many others 154 00:06:03,139 --> 00:06:05,089 spend nearly every weekend on the road... 155 00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:06,209 - Hustle! 156 00:06:06,230 --> 00:06:09,180 - Competing in one rodeo... 157 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:11,000 after another. 158 00:06:11,019 --> 00:06:13,290 But the similarities to typical youth sports 159 00:06:14,009 --> 00:06:15,149 end there. 160 00:06:15,170 --> 00:06:18,100 First-place winners are awarded not trophies 161 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,170 but prize saddles and large checks. 162 00:06:21,189 --> 00:06:25,040 Instead of uniforms, these athletes wear chaps. 163 00:06:25,060 --> 00:06:26,290 And forget shin guards. 164 00:06:27,009 --> 00:06:30,000 In this sport, they wear protective vests and helmets 165 00:06:30,019 --> 00:06:32,209 in case a bull stomps on them. 166 00:06:32,230 --> 00:06:34,189 - It sounds dangerous to other people, 167 00:06:34,209 --> 00:06:36,189 but once you've been doing it for eight years, 168 00:06:36,209 --> 00:06:39,139 it don't sound dangerous at all to you. 169 00:06:39,159 --> 00:06:42,120 Since I'm eight years old, I've been doing it for eight years. 170 00:06:42,139 --> 00:06:44,189 - You've been doing this a whole eight years? 171 00:06:44,209 --> 00:06:45,279 - Yes, sir. 172 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,159 - So you must've been 'bout doing that in your dreams. 173 00:06:48,180 --> 00:06:50,149 - [chuckles] 174 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:52,170 Cade's math might be a little off, 175 00:06:52,189 --> 00:06:55,090 but the Rodrigue boys have been training to ride 176 00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:57,019 since they were toddlers. 177 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,149 Like other little riders, they started not on big bulls, 178 00:07:00,170 --> 00:07:03,160 but with furry, friendlier foes. 179 00:07:03,180 --> 00:07:04,189 What was the first animal you rode? 180 00:07:04,209 --> 00:07:05,209 - Sheep. - Sheep. 181 00:07:05,230 --> 00:07:07,240 [cheers and applause] - Ride, brother, ride! 182 00:07:07,259 --> 00:07:11,029 Sit there, cowboy! Sit there! Yeah, yeah! 183 00:07:11,050 --> 00:07:14,079 - And it don't do nothing much but just run out there. 184 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:15,089 Just run. 185 00:07:15,110 --> 00:07:17,160 - Once a kid has mastered sheep, 186 00:07:17,180 --> 00:07:20,089 they're ready to move on to the next challenge. 187 00:07:20,110 --> 00:07:21,240 - Then you start calves. 188 00:07:21,259 --> 00:07:24,269 - All right, Cade! [indistinct shouting] 189 00:07:24,290 --> 00:07:26,199 - and then you go to mini bulls. 190 00:07:26,220 --> 00:07:30,069 [cheers and applause] 191 00:07:30,089 --> 00:07:32,009 - And you just graduate from one animal 192 00:07:32,029 --> 00:07:34,019 to the next animal to the next animal? 193 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,259 Of course, as the animals get bigger, 194 00:07:36,279 --> 00:07:38,180 so does the risk. 195 00:07:38,199 --> 00:07:41,029 Once riders graduate to riding mini bulls, 196 00:07:41,050 --> 00:07:45,110 they'll be routinely bucked, spun, kicked, 197 00:07:45,129 --> 00:07:48,189 dragged, even stomped on. 198 00:07:48,209 --> 00:07:51,139 It's not exactly child's play. 199 00:07:51,159 --> 00:07:54,019 [buzzer blaring] - Lord, have mercy! 200 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,259 - I've gotten stepped on many a time. 201 00:07:55,279 --> 00:08:00,240 The only bones I broke was my left and right arms. 202 00:08:00,259 --> 00:08:03,050 And they didn't feel that good. 203 00:08:03,069 --> 00:08:05,160 - It's rough, it's dangerous, 204 00:08:05,180 --> 00:08:08,069 but it's not what everybody makes it out to be sometimes. 205 00:08:08,089 --> 00:08:09,160 - What do they make it out to be? 206 00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:11,129 - Somebody from the city would look at it, they'd be like, 207 00:08:11,149 --> 00:08:13,230 "Man, they doing that? Why they doing that?" 208 00:08:13,250 --> 00:08:15,209 It's just a way of life for the kids, 209 00:08:15,230 --> 00:08:19,089 and they learn a lot of good life skills doing it, you know? 210 00:08:19,110 --> 00:08:21,069 They learn how to be tough. 211 00:08:21,089 --> 00:08:23,259 - Aren't there other ways to teach them to be tough? 212 00:08:23,279 --> 00:08:26,180 - I guess everybody's a little bit different. 213 00:08:26,199 --> 00:08:29,230 - It takes a different type of individual to be a bull rider. 214 00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:32,169 - Gary Leffew is a bull-riding legend, 215 00:08:32,190 --> 00:08:35,100 a former world champion and a hall of famer. 216 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,009 Now retired from competition, he works as a coach, 217 00:08:39,029 --> 00:08:41,059 teaching young riders how to survive 218 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,110 those eight long seconds... 219 00:08:43,129 --> 00:08:44,190 - Keep at it! Keep with him! 220 00:08:44,210 --> 00:08:45,200 There you go! 221 00:08:45,220 --> 00:08:48,289 - And emerge in one piece. 222 00:08:49,009 --> 00:08:51,070 - You practice situational drills. 223 00:08:51,090 --> 00:08:54,159 You got to do these drills over and over and over again. 224 00:08:54,179 --> 00:08:57,289 You know, all the things that create muscle memory 225 00:08:58,009 --> 00:08:59,139 that's gonna happen on that bull, 226 00:08:59,159 --> 00:09:01,059 because once you get on that bull, 227 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,190 there's no time to think. 228 00:09:02,210 --> 00:09:05,000 - So before the riders get on a bull, 229 00:09:05,019 --> 00:09:07,070 Leffew makes sure they're prepared. 230 00:09:07,090 --> 00:09:10,139 First, he teaches his pupils on something tame 231 00:09:10,159 --> 00:09:12,159 so they can learn to control their bodies. 232 00:09:12,179 --> 00:09:14,230 - Lower your belly. 233 00:09:14,250 --> 00:09:16,269 Come back up. Nice. 234 00:09:16,289 --> 00:09:18,049 Beautiful. 235 00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:19,179 You ready? Here we go. [mechanical bull clanking] 236 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,169 - Then he ratchets up the challenge. 237 00:09:21,190 --> 00:09:24,090 - Lift on the way down, push on the way forward, 238 00:09:24,110 --> 00:09:26,049 get your belly down. 239 00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:29,059 - Finally, he puts the boys on the bulls. 240 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,240 [overlapping chatter] 241 00:09:30,259 --> 00:09:33,080 Leffew watches their every move, 242 00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:36,210 then tells them what went right or wrong. 243 00:09:36,230 --> 00:09:38,279 - See how that put you right up in front of that rope? 244 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,230 That's a perfect move right there. 245 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:42,039 See you got that daylight under the butt? 246 00:09:42,059 --> 00:09:44,070 That's what we want. Got that elbow back. 247 00:09:44,090 --> 00:09:49,009 - Still, no amount of coaching can guarantee a safe ride... 248 00:09:49,029 --> 00:09:53,149 and these cowboys-in-training have the scars to prove it. 249 00:09:53,169 --> 00:09:56,159 What's the worst injury you've had? 250 00:09:56,179 --> 00:09:58,289 - Um, probably when I broke my arm right here. 251 00:09:59,009 --> 00:10:00,000 - Colton? 252 00:10:00,019 --> 00:10:03,019 - Lacerated liver and four fractured vertebrae. 253 00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:04,039 - Vaughan, what do you got? 254 00:10:04,059 --> 00:10:06,120 - Cracked my head open right here. 255 00:10:06,139 --> 00:10:07,120 - Bill? 256 00:10:07,139 --> 00:10:09,250 - I got--a bull stepped on my neck. 257 00:10:09,269 --> 00:10:12,179 - Troy? - I broke my collarbone. 258 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,039 - Is there anything you can think of 259 00:10:14,059 --> 00:10:16,139 that's more dangerous than what you do for fun? 260 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:18,220 all: No. - Not really. 261 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,179 - We're risking our lives right now. 262 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,080 - Do you look at it that way? 263 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:23,169 Do you understand that? 264 00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:24,190 all: Yes. - Yeah? 265 00:10:24,210 --> 00:10:26,149 What do you guys think about these injuries? 266 00:10:26,169 --> 00:10:27,289 - A lot of the times in bull riding, 267 00:10:28,009 --> 00:10:30,149 it's either gonna make you, or it's gonna break you. 268 00:10:30,169 --> 00:10:31,210 - Go, go! 269 00:10:31,230 --> 00:10:33,070 - Over the course of a weekend, 270 00:10:33,090 --> 00:10:36,190 we saw the boys endure a little bit of everything. 271 00:10:36,210 --> 00:10:38,080 The good... [cheers and applause] 272 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:41,029 - Perfect dismount! Perfect dismount! 273 00:10:41,049 --> 00:10:43,269 - The bad... - Oh! 274 00:10:43,289 --> 00:10:45,200 - And the ugly. 275 00:10:45,220 --> 00:10:47,250 [audience groans] - [crying] 276 00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:49,250 - You're all right, Troy! - You're good, Bubba. 277 00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:51,129 You're good. - [sobbing] 278 00:10:51,149 --> 00:10:52,139 - Have you ever gotten to the point 279 00:10:52,159 --> 00:10:54,139 where you've said to a youngster 280 00:10:54,159 --> 00:10:56,110 or, probably more important, to his parents, 281 00:10:56,129 --> 00:10:58,240 and said, "Look, this kid's getting beat up too much"? 282 00:10:58,259 --> 00:11:01,000 - I do. I tell 'em a lot, you know? 283 00:11:01,019 --> 00:11:03,019 Some of them take my advice, some of them don't. 284 00:11:03,039 --> 00:11:05,179 When you got that deep desire, you know, 285 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,039 you're gonna walk through hell for it. 286 00:11:07,059 --> 00:11:10,110 - How tough do you have to be to be a bull rider? 287 00:11:10,129 --> 00:11:11,120 - Um... 288 00:11:11,139 --> 00:11:13,269 [cowbells clanking] - Good boy! Yeah! 289 00:11:13,289 --> 00:11:15,090 [metallic crash] - Ooh. 290 00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:16,190 - That tough. 291 00:11:16,210 --> 00:11:17,269 - Huh? - That tough. 292 00:11:17,289 --> 00:11:18,279 - That's how tough you got to be? 293 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:19,279 - Yeah. - [chuckles] 294 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,139 - To take a hit like that. 295 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:25,269 - Isaac Escobedo is one of the best in the bull business. 296 00:11:25,289 --> 00:11:28,159 He's already won 14 titles, 297 00:11:28,179 --> 00:11:30,019 and he's still in the fourth grade. 298 00:11:30,039 --> 00:11:31,019 [cheers and applause] - Come on, Isaac! 299 00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:33,110 Hang tough, cowboy! Stay there! 300 00:11:33,129 --> 00:11:35,049 - But even with his talent, 301 00:11:35,070 --> 00:11:38,029 a routine ride at a competition last August 302 00:11:38,049 --> 00:11:40,009 was nearly his last. 303 00:11:40,029 --> 00:11:42,049 Do you remember the ride at all? 304 00:11:42,070 --> 00:11:43,279 - Well, I was going to jump off, 305 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,139 and the bull felt me going this way, 306 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:50,200 so he turned around, and then he knocked me out a little bit, 307 00:11:50,220 --> 00:11:54,129 like, dazed me, and then he stepped on me. 308 00:11:54,149 --> 00:11:56,100 - And that's pretty much the last thing you remember? 309 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:57,149 - Yeah. 310 00:11:57,169 --> 00:11:58,269 - When we got to him, he was out. 311 00:11:58,289 --> 00:12:00,090 - When you say "out," he was unconscious? 312 00:12:00,110 --> 00:12:01,169 - Yeah. He was unconscious. 313 00:12:01,190 --> 00:12:04,120 - Isaac's father, Xavier, brought him to the hospital, 314 00:12:04,139 --> 00:12:07,000 where he was rushed into emergency surgery. 315 00:12:07,019 --> 00:12:09,049 - He was in surgery for 9 1/2 hours, 316 00:12:09,070 --> 00:12:12,029 and, finally, the doctor came out. 317 00:12:12,049 --> 00:12:14,169 He said, uh, he had a lot of internal bleeding. 318 00:12:14,190 --> 00:12:17,289 He tore his intestines in three spots and... 319 00:12:18,009 --> 00:12:21,019 [sniffles, crying] Ruptured his pancreas. 320 00:12:21,039 --> 00:12:23,070 [sniffles] 321 00:12:23,090 --> 00:12:25,000 - Doctors told the Escobedos 322 00:12:25,019 --> 00:12:27,250 that Isaac was fortunate to survive. 323 00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:30,190 For the next six weeks, he remained in the hospital, 324 00:12:30,210 --> 00:12:33,190 enduring surgery after surgery. 325 00:12:33,210 --> 00:12:36,289 What are you thinking as you weigh the two things here? 326 00:12:37,009 --> 00:12:40,149 Your son's in surgery versus bull riding? 327 00:12:40,169 --> 00:12:41,240 - Not worth it. [chuckles] 328 00:12:41,259 --> 00:12:44,129 At that moment, I said, "It's not worth it. 329 00:12:44,149 --> 00:12:45,279 This is crazy. This is insane." 330 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,019 You know, we told him, "Hey, 331 00:12:47,039 --> 00:12:48,240 if you want to walk away, go ahead." 332 00:12:48,259 --> 00:12:51,169 - But that's not Isaac. - He has no quit. 333 00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:54,230 - After your big injury and you were in the hospital, 334 00:12:54,250 --> 00:12:58,009 were you immediately thinking about getting back on the bull? 335 00:12:58,029 --> 00:12:59,070 - Yes, sir. 336 00:12:59,090 --> 00:13:01,080 Every time I would go to sleep, I would dream about it-- 337 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:03,259 being back out there and riding more bulls. 338 00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:06,200 - Doctors suggested Isaac wait at least a year 339 00:13:06,220 --> 00:13:08,100 to get back on a bull. 340 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,039 Instead, after just one month... 341 00:13:11,059 --> 00:13:14,179 - Here goes Isaac! - Keep riding! 342 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,250 - [speaking indistinctly] - Good job, Isaac! 343 00:13:16,269 --> 00:13:19,240 - Ultimately, whose decision was it... 344 00:13:19,259 --> 00:13:21,049 - His. - To let him ride again? 345 00:13:21,070 --> 00:13:23,289 - It was his decision. - His? 346 00:13:24,009 --> 00:13:25,250 And Isaac is... - Nine. 347 00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:27,009 - Nine. 348 00:13:27,029 --> 00:13:29,179 Help me understand the mentality here. 349 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,110 Your son comes very close to death... 350 00:13:33,129 --> 00:13:36,080 and so wants to get back on a bull, 351 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:38,169 but if you don't stop your kid riding 352 00:13:38,190 --> 00:13:40,240 when he's had that kind of an accident 353 00:13:40,259 --> 00:13:42,210 and that brush with death, 354 00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:45,279 is there any line that you don't cross? 355 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,019 - At this point, um... 356 00:13:49,039 --> 00:13:51,210 it's hard to say, you know, 'cause it ain't over. 357 00:13:51,230 --> 00:13:54,139 So, uh, I know there's more coming. 358 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:56,049 - Is it unfair of me to sit here 359 00:13:56,070 --> 00:13:58,080 and ask you these questions 360 00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:01,029 because I don't live in your world? 361 00:14:01,049 --> 00:14:02,179 - No. It's a common question. 362 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,259 We hear it all the time. 363 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:05,090 Why, you know? Why? 364 00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:07,039 - And the answer is? 365 00:14:07,059 --> 00:14:09,100 - He has a passion for it. 366 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,269 [voice breaking] And, uh... 367 00:14:11,289 --> 00:14:13,220 when you're passionate about something, 368 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,080 nothing matters. 369 00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:18,169 - Not even your life? 370 00:14:18,190 --> 00:14:20,279 - Not even your life. 371 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,200 You know? 372 00:14:22,220 --> 00:14:24,250 - Hey, hey! Front hand! 373 00:14:24,269 --> 00:14:26,129 Front hand! Right there! Front hand! 374 00:14:26,149 --> 00:14:30,149 - It's a risk that every rider accepts each time out. 375 00:14:30,169 --> 00:14:33,210 Back at the Rodrigue family ranch in Louisiana, 376 00:14:33,230 --> 00:14:36,279 we saw a routine ride for Jay, the oldest brother, 377 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,019 end in a costly fall. 378 00:14:40,039 --> 00:14:42,049 - Hey, hey, hey! - [groaning] 379 00:14:42,070 --> 00:14:43,240 - Get up, Jay! - Get up. You're good. 380 00:14:43,259 --> 00:14:46,080 - Ow, my back. - All right. You're good. 381 00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,070 - [groaning] - Take a breath. 382 00:14:49,090 --> 00:14:51,159 - [breathing heavily] - Breathe. 383 00:14:51,179 --> 00:14:53,169 You good. - [groaning] 384 00:14:53,190 --> 00:14:56,009 - Okay. - [breathing heavily] 385 00:14:56,029 --> 00:14:58,259 I landed on something. 386 00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:02,070 - Come on. - [breathing heavily] 387 00:15:02,090 --> 00:15:03,210 - Go walk it off. 388 00:15:04,289 --> 00:15:06,159 - Has this happened to you a lot before? 389 00:15:06,179 --> 00:15:08,169 - Yes, sir. It's just a part of it. 390 00:15:08,190 --> 00:15:09,250 - Mm-hmm. 391 00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:13,070 How long will this keep you off a bull and out of practice? 392 00:15:13,090 --> 00:15:16,090 - I'd get on one as soon as I can feel my feet again. 393 00:15:16,110 --> 00:15:17,279 - Eddie, does that give you pause at all 394 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,269 when you see those types of falls? 395 00:15:19,289 --> 00:15:21,039 - We'll get him a little Epsom salt tonight 396 00:15:21,059 --> 00:15:22,039 and some ice packs. 397 00:15:22,059 --> 00:15:23,179 He'll be all right. 398 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,179 - Moments later, 399 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,139 it became clear that he wasn't all right. 400 00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:29,220 - I can't. Ah, ah, ah! 401 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,090 Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow! 402 00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:34,110 - Turned out, 403 00:15:34,129 --> 00:15:37,029 Jay had fractured a vertebrae in his spine 404 00:15:37,049 --> 00:15:39,289 and would be sidelined for months. 405 00:15:40,009 --> 00:15:41,059 - Hustle, Jay! 406 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,179 - But as we've learned, 407 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,250 there's no quit in these cowboys. 408 00:15:44,269 --> 00:15:48,110 Last week, just two months after his injury, 409 00:15:48,129 --> 00:15:50,100 Jay was back on a bull. 410 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,029 - They said he shouldn't be alive, 411 00:15:52,049 --> 00:15:53,250 let alone riding bulls! 412 00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:55,190 - As for Isaac Escobedo, 413 00:15:55,210 --> 00:15:58,259 just a few months after his brush with death... 414 00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:01,129 - Here goes Isaac! 415 00:16:01,149 --> 00:16:04,000 - He won the biggest event of the year. 416 00:16:04,019 --> 00:16:06,210 What is it about the bull riding you love so much? 417 00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:09,250 - Once you get off and you make it to the eight-second whistle, 418 00:16:09,269 --> 00:16:12,179 it's the best feeling in the whole world. 419 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,220 [buzzer blasting, cheers and applause] 420 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,009 ♪ ♪ 421 00:16:18,029 --> 00:16:19,179 - And Jon Frankel's joining in New York. 422 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,019 Hey, Jon. How you doing? 423 00:16:21,039 --> 00:16:22,179 - I'm well, Bryant. Hope you're well, too. 424 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,179 - Let me start this off 425 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,190 by acknowledging that you and I are city kids, 426 00:16:25,210 --> 00:16:27,220 so this is out of our bailiwick. 427 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,019 But there was a lot of testosterone in that piece. 428 00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:32,070 We saw, heard dads' point of view, 429 00:16:32,090 --> 00:16:33,169 kids' point of view. 430 00:16:33,190 --> 00:16:35,220 Do moms approve of this? 431 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,029 - They do, as a matter of fact. 432 00:16:37,049 --> 00:16:40,169 I will tell you from eyewitness of running around this ring 433 00:16:40,190 --> 00:16:42,279 and watching these people, mothers just as anxious. 434 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,149 And just the same way you see a mom saying to a kid 435 00:16:45,169 --> 00:16:48,250 who doesn't hit a forehand or strikes out in Little League, 436 00:16:48,269 --> 00:16:50,059 "You get back up on that bull! 437 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,179 "You're gonna get back in there again! 438 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,250 You're gonna do this!" 439 00:16:52,269 --> 00:16:56,059 And so the moms are just as encouraging and enthusiastic. 440 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,090 - Look, criminal negligence is too strong a word for this, 441 00:16:59,110 --> 00:17:00,269 but are there any laws 442 00:17:00,289 --> 00:17:04,009 governing what kids can or can't do 443 00:17:04,029 --> 00:17:06,180 as long as they have parental consent? 444 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,250 - No. It's--you know, if this is what you want to do-- 445 00:17:08,269 --> 00:17:09,250 Look, I get it. 446 00:17:09,269 --> 00:17:11,039 And Eddie Rodrigue will say, 447 00:17:11,059 --> 00:17:13,039 "Look, not everything's for everybody." 448 00:17:13,059 --> 00:17:15,190 They may not want to play golf the way you do. 449 00:17:15,210 --> 00:17:17,289 I don't want to play golf the way I play the game. 450 00:17:18,009 --> 00:17:19,279 [chuckles] But you get my point. 451 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:20,279 - Yeah. 452 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,130 - You know, not everything is for everybody. 453 00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:23,240 This is a way of life for these folks. 454 00:17:23,259 --> 00:17:24,289 - I get it. 455 00:17:25,009 --> 00:17:27,259 So is there an endgame, or is it just something to do 456 00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:30,160 until something else comes along? 457 00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:34,180 - I think for a good number, it is an activity like baseball 458 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,200 or ice skating or anything else is for anybody else's kids. 459 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:39,259 There are some like an Isaac Escobedo 460 00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:41,079 who would like to say, 461 00:17:41,099 --> 00:17:43,230 "I want to ride as a professional." 462 00:17:43,250 --> 00:17:45,069 And there are a few over the years 463 00:17:45,089 --> 00:17:47,000 who have managed to get that far. 464 00:17:47,019 --> 00:17:49,250 - Again, we're city kids. We don't get it. 465 00:17:49,269 --> 00:17:51,079 [both chuckle] All right, Jon. 466 00:17:51,099 --> 00:17:53,160 Thanks very much. - You got it. 467 00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:57,029 - Let's move on to a very different kind of challenge 468 00:17:57,049 --> 00:17:58,190 in the world of sports. 469 00:17:58,210 --> 00:18:01,099 It's the challenge faced by female reporters 470 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:02,279 trying to navigate an industry 471 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,250 that is still largely dominated by men. 472 00:18:05,269 --> 00:18:07,210 For years, many women in the sports world 473 00:18:07,230 --> 00:18:09,220 have been given cause to complain about the men 474 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,230 who routinely serve as the sources for 475 00:18:12,250 --> 00:18:15,019 and the subjects of their work. 476 00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:18,130 Fearing reprisal, few have gone public with their problems, 477 00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:20,250 but several recently agreed to discuss their plight 478 00:18:20,269 --> 00:18:22,220 with one of the longest-tenured women 479 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,190 in all of sports journalism, our Andrea Kremer. 480 00:18:26,210 --> 00:18:30,009 - We are here for the NFL Scouting Combine today 481 00:18:30,029 --> 00:18:31,170 in Indianapolis. 482 00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:35,079 - Once a year, the nation's best football prospects gather 483 00:18:35,099 --> 00:18:37,119 at the NFL Scouting Combine 484 00:18:37,140 --> 00:18:39,130 to showcase their athletic prowess 485 00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:42,019 in front of all 32 teams in the league. 486 00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:45,049 The week-long event draws a veritable who's who 487 00:18:45,069 --> 00:18:46,220 from the world of football, 488 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:51,240 from coaches to scouts to executives, 489 00:18:51,259 --> 00:18:54,200 making it a sports reporter's dream. 490 00:18:54,220 --> 00:18:57,019 - There is a lot of good access to be had 491 00:18:57,039 --> 00:19:00,279 if you just go there and can work the room 492 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,200 and everything along those lines. 493 00:19:02,220 --> 00:19:05,279 And for a young reporter who's really competitive, 494 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,130 that's enticing. 495 00:19:07,150 --> 00:19:09,000 - But for Rhiannon Walker, 496 00:19:09,019 --> 00:19:11,029 a writer for the website "The Athletic," 497 00:19:11,049 --> 00:19:14,180 the reporter's dream turned into more of a nightmare, 498 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,009 when she discovered that after hours 499 00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:19,190 in Indianapolis restaurants and bars, 500 00:19:19,210 --> 00:19:22,089 the NFL personnel she was courting as sources 501 00:19:22,109 --> 00:19:24,289 had more than football on their minds. 502 00:19:25,009 --> 00:19:28,009 - The really bold ones will be hanging on you 503 00:19:28,029 --> 00:19:29,019 the entire night. 504 00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:31,029 They'll proposition you. 505 00:19:31,049 --> 00:19:34,130 They'll tell you what their room number is and which hotel. 506 00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:38,240 Any tactic you have heard of or thought of, 507 00:19:38,259 --> 00:19:40,009 you will see it there. 508 00:19:40,029 --> 00:19:43,029 - As a female sports reporter, why do you need to be there? 509 00:19:43,049 --> 00:19:46,059 - Get access. - But at what personal cost? 510 00:19:46,079 --> 00:19:47,220 - Well, in my situation, 511 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:52,039 it was being sexually harassed in a very public forum. 512 00:19:52,059 --> 00:19:54,029 That was my personal cost. 513 00:19:54,049 --> 00:19:56,150 - Walker says it all began in 2019 514 00:19:56,170 --> 00:19:59,029 at a crowded Indianapolis steak house, 515 00:19:59,049 --> 00:20:00,220 when she was approached by a man 516 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,259 whose team she was covering, Alex Santos, 517 00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:05,109 the director for player personnel 518 00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:07,180 for the Washington Football Team. 519 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,089 - He told me I have a wagon for an ass 520 00:20:12,109 --> 00:20:15,109 and that he finds me really fucking attractive, 521 00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:17,259 and he asked me if I wasn't dating my girlfriend, 522 00:20:17,279 --> 00:20:19,269 would he be my boyfriend, or would I be attracted to him? 523 00:20:19,289 --> 00:20:21,190 And I was like, "No. 524 00:20:21,210 --> 00:20:23,009 "You work for the team that I cover. 525 00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:24,230 So, automatically, you're unattractive to me." 526 00:20:24,250 --> 00:20:27,220 - But Santos persisted, Walker says, 527 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,210 telling her that he'd been discussing her looks 528 00:20:29,230 --> 00:20:32,000 with a table full of his staffers, 529 00:20:32,019 --> 00:20:35,250 then, she says, pinching her side in front of them. 530 00:20:35,269 --> 00:20:39,170 Walker says she was furious but remained calm. 531 00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:41,259 - My knee-jerk reaction was... 532 00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:45,029 "Just make sure that 533 00:20:45,049 --> 00:20:47,000 "he doesn't have such a bad taste in his mouth 534 00:20:47,019 --> 00:20:48,160 "so that you're not completely screwed over 535 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:49,160 in this situation." 536 00:20:49,180 --> 00:20:51,180 - In that moment, you're thinking, 537 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,049 "I have to preserve my job." 538 00:20:53,069 --> 00:20:54,269 - Correct. Yes. 539 00:20:54,289 --> 00:20:56,289 There are people that I talk to within his department. 540 00:20:57,009 --> 00:21:00,069 If I screw him over, then they might not talk to me. 541 00:21:00,089 --> 00:21:01,220 Now I'm screwed out of doing all the things 542 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,279 I need to do with my job. 543 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,220 - What else would you have wanted to say to Santos? 544 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,119 - [chuckles] 545 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,170 Uh... 546 00:21:16,190 --> 00:21:20,150 I wanted to tell him to fuck off, honestly. 547 00:21:20,170 --> 00:21:22,119 "Don't put your fucking hands on me." 548 00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:25,210 - Walker says the experience left her feeling diminished. 549 00:21:25,230 --> 00:21:27,150 - [voice breaking] I felt really small. 550 00:21:27,170 --> 00:21:32,079 And I was so embarrassed. 551 00:21:32,099 --> 00:21:34,180 I was so embarrassed. 552 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,059 And it felt so unfair. 553 00:21:36,079 --> 00:21:37,109 - For those of us 554 00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:40,000 who've long been covering the world of big-time sports, 555 00:21:40,019 --> 00:21:42,000 stories like these are upsetting 556 00:21:42,019 --> 00:21:43,180 but not surprising, 557 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,200 because while the Me Too movement has helped root out 558 00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:47,190 sexual harassment in many industries 559 00:21:47,210 --> 00:21:49,170 across America and beyond, 560 00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:51,089 the male-dominated sports field 561 00:21:51,109 --> 00:21:54,200 has largely managed to keep its dirty little secret. 562 00:21:54,220 --> 00:21:56,029 For the past several months, 563 00:21:56,049 --> 00:21:59,019 we've spoken with two dozen female sports reporters who say 564 00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:03,109 that, from the NFL to the NBA to Major League Baseball, 565 00:22:03,130 --> 00:22:06,269 they are routinely objectified or propositioned for sex 566 00:22:06,289 --> 00:22:09,170 or dates by the very men they cover. 567 00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:13,009 The offenders range from executives to coaches, 568 00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:15,210 from scouts to players. 569 00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:17,130 - I had a player ask me 570 00:22:17,150 --> 00:22:19,009 if I can give him a massage one time, 571 00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:21,049 in text message, too, no less. 572 00:22:21,069 --> 00:22:24,220 I was like, "No. That's not gonna work." 573 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,140 - Do you think this is something that any 574 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,210 of your male colleagues have had to go through? 575 00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:30,279 - No, and I wouldn't wish it on them either. 576 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,140 - Recently, multiple reports emerged 577 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,250 about the harassment of female journalists 578 00:22:35,269 --> 00:22:38,069 by former members of a single team-- 579 00:22:38,089 --> 00:22:39,279 the New York Mets. 580 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,200 - The New York Mets firing General Manager Jared Porter 581 00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:45,279 this morning after he sent explicit and unsolicited 582 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,259 text messages and images to a female reporter. 583 00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:53,029 - Then, weeks later, former Mets manager Mickey Callaway 584 00:22:53,049 --> 00:22:56,180 was accused by at least five female sports reporters 585 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,039 of sending them lewd messages and sexually charged photos. 586 00:23:01,059 --> 00:23:03,180 - I get so pissed off and angry for some of these women 587 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,099 who have to deal with all these things. 588 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,200 - Jessica Kleinschmidt knows just how they feel. 589 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,000 - We know he's a power hitter, 590 00:23:10,019 --> 00:23:12,190 but the way he's been hitting, he's actually making contact. 591 00:23:12,210 --> 00:23:15,180 - She now covers the Oakland A's for NBC Sports 592 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,019 in the Bay Area, but four years ago, 593 00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:20,119 when she was covering a team in the minor leagues, 594 00:23:20,140 --> 00:23:22,180 she says she had a similar experience 595 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,190 involving the team's communications manager-- 596 00:23:25,210 --> 00:23:28,210 the executive in charge of handling the media. 597 00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:31,150 - He was sending me pictures of his dick, basically, 598 00:23:31,170 --> 00:23:36,069 and both inside of his underwear and outside. 599 00:23:36,089 --> 00:23:38,269 The second one he sent-- 600 00:23:38,289 --> 00:23:41,279 I was ballsy, and I said, "Look, dude, not into it. 601 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,019 Not a fan." 602 00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:45,069 And then it must've went over his head 603 00:23:45,089 --> 00:23:46,180 'cause he sent me a third one. 604 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,210 - This is the communications manager of the team 605 00:23:49,230 --> 00:23:52,130 who's sending you these inappropriate pictures? 606 00:23:52,150 --> 00:23:55,089 - Yeah. He was the guy that I had to approach 607 00:23:55,109 --> 00:23:57,269 and say, "Can I talk to this player, 608 00:23:57,289 --> 00:23:58,269 to the manager?" 609 00:23:58,289 --> 00:24:00,279 Or set up an interview or anything like that. 610 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,200 - How concerned were you that he could ice you out? 611 00:24:03,220 --> 00:24:04,259 - Very concerned. 612 00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:05,259 You know, I was freelancing. 613 00:24:05,279 --> 00:24:07,130 So, if I didn't write an article, 614 00:24:07,150 --> 00:24:09,019 I wasn't gonna get paid. 615 00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:12,059 So, if I got anything turned down, I was screwed. 616 00:24:12,079 --> 00:24:14,039 - So Kleinschmidt says that she, too, 617 00:24:14,059 --> 00:24:17,119 kept her anger to herself and continued to cultivate 618 00:24:17,140 --> 00:24:19,130 a warm, professional relationship. 619 00:24:19,150 --> 00:24:22,119 - I hate to admit that, but in the press box, 620 00:24:22,140 --> 00:24:25,019 I would just be like, "Hey, how's it going?" 621 00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:28,099 And I kind of need you in my, not back pocket, 622 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,170 but we need a relationship 623 00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:31,230 because I'm trying to further my career. 624 00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:34,079 And so I was, unfortunately, really nice to him, 625 00:24:34,099 --> 00:24:37,200 which pisses me off to even think about. 626 00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:40,039 - Kleinschmidt's experience was the continuation 627 00:24:40,059 --> 00:24:42,200 of a trend that goes back half a century. 628 00:24:42,220 --> 00:24:45,289 Back in the 1970s, the first wave of women 629 00:24:46,009 --> 00:24:48,079 looking to cover big-time men's sports 630 00:24:48,099 --> 00:24:50,180 were often treated not as reporters 631 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,119 but as sex objects. 632 00:24:52,140 --> 00:24:54,220 - It's what they essentially did to me 633 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,119 when they talked about me, indicating that I was someone 634 00:24:57,140 --> 00:25:01,059 who wanted to be there to leer and look at the athletes. 635 00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:03,200 - "Sports Illustrated" writer Melissa Ludtke 636 00:25:03,220 --> 00:25:05,140 was one of the first female reporters 637 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,180 to cover pro baseball in the 1970s, 638 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,069 but was denied access to the players' locker rooms 639 00:25:11,089 --> 00:25:13,000 due to her gender. 640 00:25:13,019 --> 00:25:14,130 When Ludtke fought back, 641 00:25:14,150 --> 00:25:16,210 eventually suing Major League Baseball, 642 00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:20,170 she and other female reporters were lampooned in the press. 643 00:25:20,190 --> 00:25:23,220 - The cartoonists did a great job of depicting us. 644 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,160 We were always great buxom, and we had great, huge breasts, 645 00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:30,119 which I never had, but, you know, there we were. 646 00:25:30,140 --> 00:25:33,049 This sort of lascivious you know, 647 00:25:33,069 --> 00:25:35,190 kind of vixen that was gonna go in 648 00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:38,019 and victimize these poor ballplayers. 649 00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:39,279 - To do your job, 650 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,039 why do you need the same immediacy of access? 651 00:25:43,059 --> 00:25:45,220 - The same reason the male reporters do... 652 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,259 - Ultimately, 653 00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:49,009 the courts sided with Ludtke and her colleagues, 654 00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:50,259 mandating that female sports reporters 655 00:25:50,279 --> 00:25:53,109 receive the same access as males. 656 00:25:53,130 --> 00:25:55,000 But within the industry, 657 00:25:55,019 --> 00:25:58,079 long-held views were slower to change. 658 00:25:58,099 --> 00:25:59,220 Your lawsuit... - Mm-hmm. 659 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,210 - Changed the law-- 660 00:26:01,230 --> 00:26:04,049 equal access for women. 661 00:26:04,069 --> 00:26:06,279 But what about the cultural attitudes? 662 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,180 - Well, those are still in the process of evolving, 663 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,240 I'm sad to say. 664 00:26:12,259 --> 00:26:15,029 I mean, 35, 40 years after 665 00:26:15,049 --> 00:26:18,009 what I went through in my own career 666 00:26:18,029 --> 00:26:20,240 to change things what I thought was for the better, 667 00:26:20,259 --> 00:26:23,069 and now, the women have the access, 668 00:26:23,089 --> 00:26:25,119 but there's the issues of behavior. 669 00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:26,250 There's the issues of attitudes. 670 00:26:26,269 --> 00:26:29,039 There's the issues still of their treatment. 671 00:26:29,059 --> 00:26:31,200 - The treatment persists, in part, 672 00:26:31,220 --> 00:26:34,109 because many female reporters fear they'll be punished 673 00:26:34,130 --> 00:26:35,210 for speaking up. 674 00:26:35,230 --> 00:26:39,130 Rhiannon Walker has heard the horror stories. 675 00:26:39,150 --> 00:26:41,259 - I've had women come up to me and say they got fired 676 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,240 or they got demoted or they got pushed off to the side. 677 00:26:45,259 --> 00:26:48,019 - After having been sexually harassed? 678 00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:49,180 - After being sexually harassed. 679 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,069 - In fact, most of the two dozen female sports reporters 680 00:26:53,089 --> 00:26:54,220 "Real Sports" spoke with 681 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,079 told us they fear making their allegations public 682 00:26:57,099 --> 00:26:59,200 because they worry about their reputations, 683 00:26:59,220 --> 00:27:03,230 being labeled liars, or, worse, being ignored. 684 00:27:03,250 --> 00:27:06,079 It was a fear that pro football reporter 685 00:27:06,099 --> 00:27:09,150 Nora Princiotti says she felt after being harassed 686 00:27:09,170 --> 00:27:12,119 by an NFL executive who worked for the team she covered. 687 00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:15,119 She says he asked her if she would date him 688 00:27:15,140 --> 00:27:18,289 and catcalled her multiple times in team parking lots. 689 00:27:19,009 --> 00:27:22,059 - Once, he rolled down the window of the car 690 00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:25,180 and said that he liked my dress 691 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,049 and that he hadn't noticed 692 00:27:27,069 --> 00:27:29,220 that I had a great ass for a little white girl. 693 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,079 - You had a nice ass for a little white girl? 694 00:27:32,099 --> 00:27:33,069 - Yeah. 695 00:27:33,089 --> 00:27:35,170 And for a little bit, he was sort of, like, 696 00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:37,279 driving alongside of me, and I just was like, 697 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,000 "I want to get out of here so badly." 698 00:27:41,019 --> 00:27:43,119 I just felt dirty. 699 00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:46,109 - How did you respond? - I couldn't speak. 700 00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:49,029 Half of me was going... 701 00:27:49,049 --> 00:27:51,230 "How is it possibly okay for you to say that to me?" 702 00:27:51,250 --> 00:27:54,279 Another half was going, "There's people around-- 703 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,109 Like, somebody's gonna see." 704 00:27:57,130 --> 00:27:59,180 - How did it make you feel about yourself? 705 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,049 - Like a collection of body parts. 706 00:28:01,069 --> 00:28:03,190 To feel so excited about your career 707 00:28:03,210 --> 00:28:06,140 and just kind of be smacked in the face with... 708 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,009 there are always going to be people 709 00:28:08,029 --> 00:28:10,000 who are not going to see you that way 710 00:28:10,019 --> 00:28:11,259 was really hard for me. 711 00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:14,069 - But Princiotti says when she consulted her colleagues 712 00:28:14,089 --> 00:28:16,009 about the incidents, they told her 713 00:28:16,029 --> 00:28:18,109 that if she spoke up about what was happening, 714 00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:21,240 it would not end well for anyone involved. 715 00:28:21,259 --> 00:28:26,099 - I did hear that if I went to... 716 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,109 the PR department, 717 00:28:28,130 --> 00:28:32,059 anyone in PR was more likely to get fired 718 00:28:32,079 --> 00:28:36,140 or shut down or silenced than he was. 719 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,019 - Than the man who's actually acting inappropriate 720 00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:40,150 towards you? - Yeah. 721 00:28:40,170 --> 00:28:42,200 - So Princiotti stayed silent, 722 00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:46,279 until two years later, in 2019 at the NFL Combine, 723 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,240 when she learned that another female reporter 724 00:28:48,259 --> 00:28:51,259 had allegedly been harassed by the same executive. 725 00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:55,150 The reporter's name-- Rhiannon Walker. 726 00:28:55,170 --> 00:28:58,150 The executive-- Alex Santos. 727 00:28:58,170 --> 00:29:02,059 The two women had never met, but soon traded stories. 728 00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:04,170 - The thing that... 729 00:29:04,190 --> 00:29:07,210 just blew my mind a little bit was, 730 00:29:07,230 --> 00:29:10,190 you know, he had the same syntax. 731 00:29:10,210 --> 00:29:14,029 Like, he would say some of the same sentences 732 00:29:14,049 --> 00:29:16,119 to both of us. 733 00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:20,130 - But soon, Princiotti was struck by another realization. 734 00:29:20,150 --> 00:29:21,160 - Did you regret it, 735 00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:23,059 that you hadn't spoken up two years earlier? 736 00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:25,009 - Yeah, a lot. 737 00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:28,150 - How does that resonate for you even to this day? 738 00:29:28,170 --> 00:29:32,079 - When I found out that... 739 00:29:32,099 --> 00:29:36,009 it hadn't just happened to me, I just felt... 740 00:29:41,289 --> 00:29:44,029 [voice breaking] I just--I felt crushed. 741 00:29:44,049 --> 00:29:48,039 Like, I just hadn't--I just didn't do anything about it. 742 00:29:48,059 --> 00:29:50,140 And I could've. 743 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,140 - Both women then disclosed their harassment by Santos 744 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,059 to team officials. 745 00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:56,220 What they didn't know 746 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,079 was that the team had received two earlier reports, 747 00:29:59,099 --> 00:30:02,259 dating back to 2016, by two other women 748 00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:06,000 claiming they had also been harassed by Santos. 749 00:30:06,019 --> 00:30:08,160 Yet despite those four reports, 750 00:30:08,180 --> 00:30:11,019 Santos kept his job for more than a year, 751 00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:15,039 until July 2020 when a "Washington Post" exposé 752 00:30:15,059 --> 00:30:18,230 detailed sexual harassment allegations against Santos 753 00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:20,170 and other team executives. 754 00:30:20,190 --> 00:30:23,150 Why did it take for the "Washington Post" to publish 755 00:30:23,170 --> 00:30:27,210 a story for Alex Santos to finally be fired? 756 00:30:27,230 --> 00:30:29,210 - Because the culture there supported it 757 00:30:29,230 --> 00:30:31,059 from top to bottom. 758 00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:32,279 [scoffs] That's why. 759 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,099 That's why it persisted. People didn't care. 760 00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:37,200 - Both Santos and the Washington Football Team 761 00:30:37,220 --> 00:30:39,240 declined to comment for this story, 762 00:30:39,259 --> 00:30:42,150 but Walker and Princiotti are not the only reporters 763 00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:44,059 who say they've been disappointed 764 00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:46,150 in the actions, or lack of action, 765 00:30:46,170 --> 00:30:49,099 taken by the team to which they've reported abuse. 766 00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:52,130 After Jessica Kleinschmidt was sent those obscene photos 767 00:30:52,150 --> 00:30:53,289 by the communications manager 768 00:30:54,009 --> 00:30:55,289 of the minor league team she was covering, 769 00:30:56,009 --> 00:30:58,000 she complained to team officials 770 00:30:58,019 --> 00:31:00,019 and got a response from the president. 771 00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:02,039 And what action was taken? 772 00:31:02,059 --> 00:31:04,279 - He said, "This won't happen again." 773 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,170 - According to the team, the communications manager 774 00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:11,279 was warned to, "Cease any and all unprofessional behavior." 775 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,259 And he did-- at least with Kleinschmidt. 776 00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:17,069 But another woman working in baseball told us 777 00:31:17,089 --> 00:31:18,210 that about a year later, 778 00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:20,240 that same communications manager 779 00:31:20,259 --> 00:31:23,240 sent her the same kinds of obscene images. 780 00:31:23,259 --> 00:31:27,009 Kleinschmidt blames the team for not taking stronger action 781 00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:28,259 after her complaint. 782 00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:33,039 Why do you think that this man did it again 783 00:31:33,059 --> 00:31:35,230 to another woman a year later? 784 00:31:35,250 --> 00:31:37,089 - 'Cause he kept his job. 785 00:31:37,109 --> 00:31:39,119 So he thought, "Well, if I'm allowed to keep my job, 786 00:31:39,140 --> 00:31:40,180 I'm just gonna do it again." 787 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,279 - And it's not just the teams. 788 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,019 Rhiannon Walker says the leagues need 789 00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:48,029 to more severely punish this kind of behavior. 790 00:31:48,049 --> 00:31:50,119 - You have to make it really, really painful for them 791 00:31:50,140 --> 00:31:51,269 to keep people in house 792 00:31:51,289 --> 00:31:53,230 that subscribe to this kind of behavior. 793 00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:55,009 I've seen more serious repercussions 794 00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:57,059 for a ball being deflated than I have for the stuff 795 00:31:57,079 --> 00:31:58,289 that's gone on here in Washington. 796 00:31:59,009 --> 00:32:01,029 And why is that? It's just a football, comparatively. 797 00:32:01,049 --> 00:32:02,170 These are human beings 798 00:32:02,190 --> 00:32:04,170 who have to deal with the long-term repercussions 799 00:32:04,190 --> 00:32:05,289 of what is done to them. 800 00:32:06,009 --> 00:32:08,089 - As for the NFL Combine, 801 00:32:08,109 --> 00:32:10,009 Walker says not much has changed 802 00:32:10,029 --> 00:32:12,230 since her first experience there. 803 00:32:12,250 --> 00:32:15,119 - I still see the same behavior-- 804 00:32:15,140 --> 00:32:18,009 people touching women inappropriately 805 00:32:18,029 --> 00:32:20,170 when they go through the room and things of that nature. 806 00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:22,269 They just continue to operate the way that they always have, 807 00:32:22,289 --> 00:32:25,140 because up to this point, they've gotten away with it. 808 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,009 ♪ ♪ 809 00:32:28,029 --> 00:32:29,140 - And Andrea Kremer is joining us 810 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,190 from her home in Massachusetts. 811 00:32:30,210 --> 00:32:32,200 Hey, Andrea. - Hello, Bryant. 812 00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:34,140 - Hey, Andrea, you're a veteran at this stuff. 813 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,119 Did any of this come as a surprise to you? 814 00:32:37,140 --> 00:32:39,170 - It didn't surprise me, Bryant, sadly. 815 00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:41,150 Look, when I was coming up in the business, 816 00:32:41,170 --> 00:32:44,049 there was no social media, and there were no cell phones. 817 00:32:44,069 --> 00:32:45,049 That's good. 818 00:32:45,069 --> 00:32:46,220 But there was still bad language. 819 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,250 When I first went on camera, producer said to me, 820 00:32:49,269 --> 00:32:54,079 "We want you to look friendly, eff-able, and informative." 821 00:32:54,099 --> 00:32:56,049 You can imagine what my reaction to that is. 822 00:32:56,069 --> 00:32:58,150 And whereas those words would not be used today, 823 00:32:58,170 --> 00:33:00,180 are the attitudes really that different? 824 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,150 - Yeah. In your opinion, do any of the teams, 825 00:33:03,170 --> 00:33:06,059 leagues, sports do a better job of policing this 826 00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:07,150 than any of the others? 827 00:33:07,170 --> 00:33:09,109 - No, not really. 828 00:33:09,130 --> 00:33:11,200 I think they're all equally culpable, if you will. 829 00:33:11,220 --> 00:33:13,180 They have tip lines. They have harassment training. 830 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,240 But until these bad actors are really held accountable 831 00:33:17,259 --> 00:33:20,089 by teams and not rehired-- 832 00:33:20,109 --> 00:33:21,130 look at Mickey Callaway. 833 00:33:21,150 --> 00:33:23,069 Cleveland Indians, New York Mets, 834 00:33:23,089 --> 00:33:26,059 Los Angeles Angels, and he's just suspended at this point, 835 00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:28,190 pending a Major League Baseball investigation. 836 00:33:28,210 --> 00:33:31,099 - Would having more women in front offices or organizations 837 00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:32,269 change anything, you think? 838 00:33:32,289 --> 00:33:34,019 - The women that we spoke to 839 00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:35,279 think that is one of the key factors, 840 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,180 that, yes, it would help to have more women 841 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,059 in positions of power. 842 00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:42,079 That will certainly help with the ideas 843 00:33:42,099 --> 00:33:46,240 of respectability for women and also just give new voices, 844 00:33:46,259 --> 00:33:50,069 give new people who can vet these bad characters. 845 00:33:50,089 --> 00:33:53,059 - Andrea, thanks so very much. You travel safely, all right? 846 00:33:53,079 --> 00:33:55,210 Take care. - Thanks. You too, Bryant. 847 00:33:57,019 --> 00:33:58,089 - Let's look ahead. 848 00:33:58,109 --> 00:34:00,220 With the Tokyo Olympics just two months away, 849 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,180 battle lines are already being drawn 850 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,150 between International Olympic Committee, the IOC, 851 00:34:05,170 --> 00:34:08,019 and those athletes who are no longer content 852 00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:10,079 to just shut up and play. 853 00:34:10,099 --> 00:34:12,000 Before we hear from some of those athletes, 854 00:34:12,019 --> 00:34:13,269 here's the crux of the issue. 855 00:34:13,289 --> 00:34:15,289 Quoting Rule 50 of the Olympic Charter, 856 00:34:16,010 --> 00:34:17,269 IOC officials are warning 857 00:34:17,289 --> 00:34:21,239 that no kind of demonstration will be permitted at the games. 858 00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:23,250 But rather than toe that party line, 859 00:34:23,269 --> 00:34:26,199 U.S. Olympic officials have said they'll not penalize 860 00:34:26,219 --> 00:34:30,150 American athletes who participate in demonstrations. 861 00:34:30,170 --> 00:34:33,070 That alone is certainly a break from years past. 862 00:34:33,090 --> 00:34:37,139 Back in Mexico City in 1968, Tommie Smith and John Carlos 863 00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,110 famously lowered their heads and raised gloved fists 864 00:34:40,130 --> 00:34:42,230 to protest racial injustice, 865 00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:44,250 actions that drew widespread outrage 866 00:34:44,269 --> 00:34:47,119 and got them thrown out of the Olympic Village. 867 00:34:47,139 --> 00:34:49,210 Smith told me the events of that evening 868 00:34:49,230 --> 00:34:51,280 have shaped his life ever since. 869 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,059 - I live it every day, and I thought people would see it, 870 00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:55,250 and I thought we'd walk off the victory stand, 871 00:34:55,269 --> 00:34:58,170 get our medals, and look at the rest of the games, 872 00:34:58,190 --> 00:34:59,239 happily come home. 873 00:34:59,260 --> 00:35:01,139 - You really thought that? 874 00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:04,090 Tommie, if my math is correct, by that time, 875 00:35:04,110 --> 00:35:07,159 you were a 24-year-old Black man in America. 876 00:35:07,179 --> 00:35:12,110 By then, you had to know how this country would respond 877 00:35:12,130 --> 00:35:14,079 to what you were going to do. 878 00:35:14,099 --> 00:35:15,260 - It was a quiet backlash. 879 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,170 Coming home and finding silence, 880 00:35:18,190 --> 00:35:20,190 coming home and finding no job, 881 00:35:20,210 --> 00:35:24,119 coming home and finding the wife and son were sad 882 00:35:24,139 --> 00:35:26,179 because there was nothing there for them 883 00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:29,030 because of what their father and husband did 884 00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:33,239 to satisfy a fortitude of hope 885 00:35:33,260 --> 00:35:35,019 for Black folks. 886 00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:38,230 I was there alone trying to do something 887 00:35:38,250 --> 00:35:42,039 that had not been done before in the history of athletics. 888 00:35:42,059 --> 00:35:43,250 This was an athletic movement 889 00:35:43,269 --> 00:35:46,130 that was guided by the racist tendencies 890 00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:49,260 of a nation that did not represent me. 891 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,179 - Basically, the IOC's position is unchanged 892 00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:57,280 from what it was back in '68. 893 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,010 It's over half a century ago. 894 00:36:00,030 --> 00:36:01,159 That it's unchanged-- 895 00:36:01,179 --> 00:36:03,210 do you find that surprising, disappointing, 896 00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:05,090 disgusting, all of the above? 897 00:36:05,110 --> 00:36:08,139 What? - It is archaic, very archaic. 898 00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:12,070 I think this is why the younger generation is rising up. 899 00:36:12,090 --> 00:36:14,239 - I'm looking at IOC's Rule 50. 900 00:36:14,260 --> 00:36:17,030 Says, in part, and I'm quoting here, 901 00:36:17,050 --> 00:36:20,159 "No kind of demonstration or political, religious, 902 00:36:20,179 --> 00:36:24,070 or racial propaganda will be permitted." 903 00:36:24,090 --> 00:36:26,269 - Nothing tolerated. No. No, nothing, nothing, nothing. 904 00:36:26,289 --> 00:36:30,090 - How important, Tommie, is it to your mind 905 00:36:30,110 --> 00:36:32,269 that the Olympians do express themselves 906 00:36:32,289 --> 00:36:36,170 and do bring attention to the racism and social injustice 907 00:36:36,190 --> 00:36:38,239 that persists in this country? 908 00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:41,059 - I do think there will be something done. 909 00:36:41,079 --> 00:36:42,130 I don't know what. 910 00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:45,019 People didn't know what back in 1968, 911 00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:49,269 but I do think that there will be some type 912 00:36:49,289 --> 00:36:51,199 of a demonstration. 913 00:36:51,219 --> 00:36:53,250 - So, as someone who's been through this, 914 00:36:53,269 --> 00:36:57,230 someone who is an icon where these matters are concerned, 915 00:36:57,250 --> 00:37:01,099 what would you say to those American Olympians 916 00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:05,179 who are considering raising a fist or taking a knee 917 00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:09,039 to call attention to racism and social injustice? 918 00:37:09,059 --> 00:37:11,219 - I'm not telling an athlete to do anything 919 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,289 because I can't tell an athlete's heart. 920 00:37:14,010 --> 00:37:15,219 The athlete's got to do this for himself. 921 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,110 - Would you tell Olympians who are thinking about protesting 922 00:37:19,130 --> 00:37:22,039 that if they proceed to expect the worst? 923 00:37:22,059 --> 00:37:24,079 - Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 924 00:37:24,099 --> 00:37:25,190 - Tommie, thank you very much. 925 00:37:25,210 --> 00:37:27,179 Let me turn now to some American Olympians 926 00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:29,150 who figure to be in Tokyo this summer. 927 00:37:29,170 --> 00:37:31,150 Gwendolyn Berry is a hammer thrower 928 00:37:31,170 --> 00:37:34,010 who was in the Rio Olympics just four years ago. 929 00:37:34,030 --> 00:37:36,110 She medaled at the Pan Am Games in 2019, 930 00:37:36,130 --> 00:37:38,269 as did Race Imboden in fencing. 931 00:37:38,289 --> 00:37:40,130 Welcome to both of you. 932 00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:43,000 You both protested on the medal stand at those games. 933 00:37:43,019 --> 00:37:45,139 Why'd you choose to make the statement you did? 934 00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:46,199 Gwendolyn? 935 00:37:46,219 --> 00:37:50,239 - Just to bring awareness to what was going on in America 936 00:37:50,260 --> 00:37:52,139 dealing with Black and brown communities 937 00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:53,289 and Black and brown people 938 00:37:54,010 --> 00:37:56,139 dying at the hands of the police. 939 00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:58,239 And so, on the podium in that moment, 940 00:37:58,260 --> 00:38:01,090 I was just like, "I got to say something. 941 00:38:01,110 --> 00:38:02,269 I got to stand for something." 942 00:38:02,289 --> 00:38:04,150 Enough was enough. 943 00:38:04,170 --> 00:38:06,139 - You raised a fist on the medal stand. 944 00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:08,250 Race, you took a knee on the medal stand. 945 00:38:08,269 --> 00:38:11,090 What kind of blowback did you get? 946 00:38:11,110 --> 00:38:13,130 - For both of us, actually, we were put on probation 947 00:38:13,150 --> 00:38:15,170 by the USOC for a year, 948 00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:16,210 which was basically threatening us 949 00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:20,170 to say not to protest anymore or demonstrate anymore 950 00:38:20,190 --> 00:38:23,170 at any events in the sport world. 951 00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:27,250 - Do either of you regret taking the stand you did? 952 00:38:27,269 --> 00:38:29,110 - Absolutely not. - Absolutely not. 953 00:38:29,130 --> 00:38:31,059 [chuckling] Not at all. - No. 954 00:38:31,079 --> 00:38:35,289 - How do you view now the USOPC's statement 955 00:38:36,010 --> 00:38:38,280 that they're going to be supporting any Olympians 956 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,079 who choose to make such a statement in Tokyo? 957 00:38:42,099 --> 00:38:43,269 - They've made a lot of statements, 958 00:38:43,289 --> 00:38:46,059 and I think it's time for us to be skeptical. 959 00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:48,170 And we've been trying to figure out 960 00:38:48,190 --> 00:38:50,199 if they're gonna back these statements up. 961 00:38:50,219 --> 00:38:52,219 We just saw the IOC pass a ruling that says 962 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,030 they will not allow protests and demonstrations 963 00:38:56,050 --> 00:38:58,139 and I think, in particular, the athletes are looking 964 00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:02,159 to the USOPC for protection now if they choose to. 965 00:39:02,179 --> 00:39:04,219 - Let me bring in Tianna Bartoletta. 966 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:05,289 She's a sprinter and long jumper 967 00:39:06,010 --> 00:39:08,139 with three Olympic golds already on her résumé. 968 00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:12,079 Tianna, you've never protested at the games before. 969 00:39:12,099 --> 00:39:16,050 Are you feeling any pressure to, I don't know, 970 00:39:16,070 --> 00:39:21,239 conform to what's expected of African American athletes? 971 00:39:21,260 --> 00:39:23,070 - I honestly do not. 972 00:39:23,090 --> 00:39:25,099 This is one of those visceral, 973 00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:28,239 like, in-your-soul type of decisions that you make. 974 00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:32,099 And, sure, it'll be maybe a split-second decision, like, 975 00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:33,280 "What will this cost me?" 976 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,130 But in the end, it's your life. 977 00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:40,079 And I think that if you feel moved to do it, you will do it. 978 00:39:40,099 --> 00:39:43,250 - American athletes are pretty, you know, angry. 979 00:39:43,269 --> 00:39:48,090 We feel like we are not heard enough or not taken seriously. 980 00:39:48,110 --> 00:39:52,179 So I feel like most athletes will go in there, 981 00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:55,170 and they'll do what they feel in their heart and soul. 982 00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:57,019 For me, I don't feel any pressure 983 00:39:57,039 --> 00:39:59,010 because I'm gonna do what I want to do. 984 00:39:59,030 --> 00:40:03,230 - Race, why do you think we don't see more white athletes 985 00:40:03,250 --> 00:40:06,079 protesting about social injustice? 986 00:40:06,099 --> 00:40:07,280 - I think that white athletes 987 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,030 are the ones who the Games are built for. 988 00:40:11,050 --> 00:40:14,039 And so what we see is less of them feeling the need 989 00:40:14,059 --> 00:40:16,190 to speak up because it's not affecting them directly. 990 00:40:16,210 --> 00:40:19,019 And a lot of what athletes speak up about 991 00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:20,219 has been about their communities. 992 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,030 And so, for me, it was a time that I was affected 993 00:40:24,050 --> 00:40:26,250 being in New York and watching and being a part 994 00:40:26,269 --> 00:40:28,210 of all the social justice that had been going on, 995 00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:30,130 and so it was important for me to speak up for those people 996 00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:33,059 who I loved and I supported. 997 00:40:33,079 --> 00:40:36,159 - How are each of you viewing the IOC's stated position 998 00:40:36,179 --> 00:40:37,260 on Rule 50? 999 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,239 I'll quote only a part of it, that, 1000 00:40:39,260 --> 00:40:42,050 "No kind of demonstration or political, 1001 00:40:42,070 --> 00:40:47,030 religious, or racial propaganda will be permitted"? 1002 00:40:47,050 --> 00:40:48,239 Your reaction. 1003 00:40:48,260 --> 00:40:50,150 - Well, we know that the IOC 1004 00:40:50,170 --> 00:40:52,139 needs to protect their investments. 1005 00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:54,130 We know that money talks, 1006 00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:56,119 so they will do anything and everything 1007 00:40:56,139 --> 00:40:58,159 to make sure their sponsors are happy 1008 00:40:58,179 --> 00:41:02,030 and they do not put on any type of show 1009 00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:06,090 except for the "Olympism Show" come time for Tokyo. 1010 00:41:06,110 --> 00:41:09,239 - I'm furious just by the wording, honestly, 1011 00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:10,260 of the rule-- 1012 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,090 "racial propaganda." 1013 00:41:13,110 --> 00:41:16,090 Championing equality is not racial propaganda. 1014 00:41:16,110 --> 00:41:19,059 So, before we even get to protesting, 1015 00:41:19,079 --> 00:41:20,230 I'm just pissed at the language. 1016 00:41:20,250 --> 00:41:22,219 - It's history repeating itself. 1017 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,079 You know, "racial propaganda" was added as a reaction 1018 00:41:26,099 --> 00:41:28,280 to Tommie Smith and John Carlos. 1019 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,269 And now you're seeing kneeling and fist-raising added 1020 00:41:31,289 --> 00:41:33,250 because of the actions that athletes are taking, 1021 00:41:33,269 --> 00:41:36,000 like Colin Kaepernick, like Gwen, like myself, 1022 00:41:36,019 --> 00:41:38,059 anyone who wants to protest at these games. 1023 00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:41,059 - But it is political when you've got all these flags 1024 00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:43,090 and anthems going full-time... - Of course. 1025 00:41:43,110 --> 00:41:46,039 - For the entire 16 days of the Games. 1026 00:41:46,059 --> 00:41:49,010 - Oh, yeah, and when you're wearing your country's uniform. 1027 00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:50,260 Like, it's politics. [chuckles] 1028 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,139 You're representing your country. 1029 00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:54,219 - You mentioned Tommie Smith. 1030 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:59,099 I asked Tommie directly what his advice would be 1031 00:41:59,119 --> 00:42:02,050 to those American Olympians headed to Tokyo 1032 00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:05,210 who are considering protesting. 1033 00:42:05,230 --> 00:42:07,219 He said, "I'm not telling an athlete to do anything 1034 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,280 "because I can't tell an athlete's heart. 1035 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,090 The athletes have to do this for themselves." 1036 00:42:12,110 --> 00:42:14,010 And when I said, "Would you tell Olympians 1037 00:42:14,030 --> 00:42:16,230 "who are thinking about protesting that, if they do, 1038 00:42:16,250 --> 00:42:18,139 they should expect the worst?" 1039 00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:22,079 He said, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, 1040 00:42:22,099 --> 00:42:25,090 yes, yes." 1041 00:42:25,110 --> 00:42:28,219 - Yes. [laughter] 1042 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,119 - Absolutely. 1043 00:42:30,139 --> 00:42:33,219 - Your thoughts on that? Does it scare you? 1044 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,130 - I don't think protesting should scare anybody, 1045 00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:39,190 because if it is scaring people, 1046 00:42:39,210 --> 00:42:41,090 then that's a good thing, right? 1047 00:42:41,110 --> 00:42:43,250 That means there's something important about protesting. 1048 00:42:43,269 --> 00:42:45,250 There's something important about speaking 1049 00:42:45,269 --> 00:42:48,119 when no one wants to hear what's being spoken. 1050 00:42:48,139 --> 00:42:51,000 However, I think you should be aware, 1051 00:42:51,019 --> 00:42:53,269 but depend on the people who have been supporting you-- 1052 00:42:53,289 --> 00:42:55,210 your community, your family-- 1053 00:42:55,230 --> 00:42:57,280 and know that you'll be secure with them. 1054 00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,119 So the world can't come at you 1055 00:42:59,139 --> 00:43:01,099 if you have the support of your people. 1056 00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:04,230 - Race, does that make you an outlier in this? 1057 00:43:04,250 --> 00:43:06,039 - It doesn't. 1058 00:43:06,059 --> 00:43:08,239 I think that you stand with the people that you stand with, 1059 00:43:08,260 --> 00:43:11,150 and I would support any athlete who spoke up. 1060 00:43:12,269 --> 00:43:14,179 And I do believe that it's important to, 1061 00:43:14,199 --> 00:43:16,269 and I do believe there will be consequences for it. 1062 00:43:16,289 --> 00:43:18,030 I knew that at the Pan Am Games, 1063 00:43:18,050 --> 00:43:21,179 and I know that going into the Olympic Games. 1064 00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:24,130 And I think that it's part of what protest means. 1065 00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:27,090 It's speaking up when you know there's gonna be consequences 1066 00:43:27,110 --> 00:43:29,010 and owning that because you know 1067 00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:32,289 that someone else is in a much worse situation than you are. 1068 00:43:33,010 --> 00:43:34,030 - I think it is scary, 1069 00:43:34,050 --> 00:43:37,090 and the people who protest are demonstrating courage. 1070 00:43:37,110 --> 00:43:40,119 And as we all know, courage is not the absence of fear. 1071 00:43:40,139 --> 00:43:42,199 It's feeling the fear and doing it anyway. 1072 00:43:42,219 --> 00:43:44,030 - So I'll close this 1073 00:43:44,050 --> 00:43:49,010 in asking each of you to give me a percentage. 1074 00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:52,090 The likelihood that if you get to the medal stand, 1075 00:43:52,110 --> 00:43:55,130 you will either kneel or raise a fist 1076 00:43:55,150 --> 00:43:58,050 or in some way defy the IOC 1077 00:43:58,070 --> 00:44:01,079 and make your... 1078 00:44:01,099 --> 00:44:04,019 priorities known? 1079 00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:05,070 Tianna? 1080 00:44:05,090 --> 00:44:06,150 - I think if you ask the IOC, 1081 00:44:06,170 --> 00:44:10,030 they would say Tianna, 100%, will burn it all down. 1082 00:44:10,050 --> 00:44:13,119 But I would say 50/50 in the moment. 1083 00:44:13,139 --> 00:44:15,170 [laughter] 1084 00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:16,269 - Race, what about you? 1085 00:44:16,289 --> 00:44:18,139 - It's not a statement 1086 00:44:18,159 --> 00:44:20,170 that I would choose to make beforehand. 1087 00:44:20,190 --> 00:44:22,239 It would be something that's reactionary to what's going on 1088 00:44:22,260 --> 00:44:24,090 and what's going on to the athletes 1089 00:44:24,110 --> 00:44:26,199 and people that I care about at that specific games. 1090 00:44:26,219 --> 00:44:28,039 - And, Gwendolyn? 1091 00:44:28,059 --> 00:44:30,039 - I'm with Tianna and Race. 1092 00:44:30,059 --> 00:44:33,070 For me, you know, my first protest was a moment thing. 1093 00:44:33,090 --> 00:44:35,079 I felt it in my heart and soul. 1094 00:44:35,099 --> 00:44:38,150 So of course the IOC will hear from me. 1095 00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:40,010 They've been hearing from me, 1096 00:44:40,030 --> 00:44:43,070 but I can't tell you what I'll do if I make the podium. 1097 00:44:43,090 --> 00:44:46,070 - Hey, thank you so very much for being with, 1098 00:44:46,090 --> 00:44:49,090 Gwendolyn Berry, Race Imboden, Tianna Bartoletta. 1099 00:44:49,110 --> 00:44:51,239 Good luck. Travel safely. 1100 00:44:51,260 --> 00:44:52,239 - Thank you. - Thank you. 1101 00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:54,030 - Thank you. 1102 00:44:55,150 --> 00:44:56,289 - One quick additional note-- 1103 00:44:57,010 --> 00:44:58,230 although all parties involved 1104 00:44:58,250 --> 00:45:01,199 are talking about what will or won't be allowed in Tokyo, 1105 00:45:01,219 --> 00:45:05,150 it's worth noting that none are openly talking punishment. 1106 00:45:05,170 --> 00:45:07,239 Instead, IOC officials are saying 1107 00:45:07,260 --> 00:45:10,119 that all protests that are deemed as violations 1108 00:45:10,139 --> 00:45:13,250 will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. 1109 00:45:13,269 --> 00:45:15,210 Stay tuned. 1110 00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:17,030 For our last story this evening, 1111 00:45:17,050 --> 00:45:19,250 we want to update the sporting exploits of Tommy Morrissey, 1112 00:45:19,269 --> 00:45:23,050 a young boy in Florida who was born with only one arm. 1113 00:45:23,070 --> 00:45:24,070 When we first met him, 1114 00:45:24,090 --> 00:45:26,280 young Tommy was a seven-year-old golf phenom. 1115 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,170 These days, he's still stunning onlookers, 1116 00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:31,190 only now on a different field of play 1117 00:45:31,210 --> 00:45:33,280 and for a very personal reason. 1118 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,159 Our David Scott has that story. 1119 00:45:36,179 --> 00:45:39,019 - Atta boy, Tommy! Rock and fire, kiddo! 1120 00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:41,030 - Ten-year-old Tommy Morrissey 1121 00:45:41,050 --> 00:45:44,239 isn't your typical little league all-star... 1122 00:45:44,260 --> 00:45:47,079 because he can do more with one arm 1123 00:45:47,099 --> 00:45:49,230 than most kids can with two. 1124 00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:51,150 - Yeah! [cheers and applause] 1125 00:45:51,170 --> 00:45:53,110 - What's your favorite part of baseball? 1126 00:45:53,130 --> 00:45:57,219 - The hitting, because you run the bases, which is really fun. 1127 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,119 Like, when you hit a home run, 1128 00:45:59,139 --> 00:46:02,070 stepping on home plate is just a great feeling 1129 00:46:02,090 --> 00:46:03,280 'cause you literally just hit a home run. 1130 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,039 And a lot of kids just can't do that with one arm. 1131 00:46:09,019 --> 00:46:11,280 - He has a batting average of over .500, 1132 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,130 once struck out ten hitters in a row. 1133 00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:16,000 [cheers and applause] - Atta boy! 1134 00:46:16,019 --> 00:46:18,070 - And when he's behind home plate, 1135 00:46:18,090 --> 00:46:20,039 base-stealers beware. 1136 00:46:20,059 --> 00:46:21,250 - Nice job! Put it on him! Yeah! 1137 00:46:21,269 --> 00:46:24,170 - Do you feel like you're at a disadvantage 1138 00:46:24,190 --> 00:46:26,219 having one arm when you're at the plate? 1139 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:27,269 - No. Definitely not. 1140 00:46:27,289 --> 00:46:29,090 - At the mound? - No. 1141 00:46:29,110 --> 00:46:30,170 - First base? - No. 1142 00:46:30,190 --> 00:46:31,170 - Shortstop? - No. 1143 00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:32,179 - No? - No. 1144 00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:34,059 - No disadvantage? - No. 1145 00:46:34,079 --> 00:46:35,159 - Why do you think that is? 1146 00:46:35,179 --> 00:46:37,170 - I don't really think about it. 1147 00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:39,199 I just prove them wrong. 1148 00:46:39,219 --> 00:46:41,199 - All right, Tommy. Be a hitter, kiddo. 1149 00:46:41,219 --> 00:46:44,039 - It's a confidence born of a lifetime 1150 00:46:44,059 --> 00:46:45,280 of doing just that, 1151 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,110 and not just on the baseball field. 1152 00:46:48,130 --> 00:46:49,230 - Come on, Tommy! Come on! 1153 00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:50,280 - In fact, 1154 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,219 it's not even the first sport Tommy has mastered. 1155 00:46:55,269 --> 00:46:57,260 When we first met him three years ago, 1156 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,030 he was dominating a different game. 1157 00:47:00,050 --> 00:47:02,010 He weighed just 60 pounds, 1158 00:47:02,030 --> 00:47:05,199 but could drive a golf ball 200 yards-- 1159 00:47:05,219 --> 00:47:09,099 kind of technique most adults could only dream of. 1160 00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:11,050 - Nice shot, Tommy. 1161 00:47:11,070 --> 00:47:14,090 - They say you have the perfect swing. 1162 00:47:14,110 --> 00:47:17,150 - Well, that is true. 1163 00:47:17,170 --> 00:47:20,190 - How is it that a seven-year-old boy 1164 00:47:20,210 --> 00:47:24,250 can drive the ball almost 200 yards? 1165 00:47:24,269 --> 00:47:27,199 - Um... 1166 00:47:27,219 --> 00:47:29,110 I don't know. 1167 00:47:30,099 --> 00:47:31,239 - At just seven years old, 1168 00:47:31,260 --> 00:47:35,099 Tommy had already won 28 golf tournaments. 1169 00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:36,239 - Great shot, Tommy. 1170 00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:38,119 - He was regularly beating 1171 00:47:38,139 --> 00:47:41,119 the best two-armed young golfers in the country... 1172 00:47:41,139 --> 00:47:43,269 - Yes! - Nice putt! 1173 00:47:43,289 --> 00:47:46,039 Atta boy! - Boom! 1174 00:47:46,059 --> 00:47:49,019 - Shocking those who had never seen him play before 1175 00:47:49,039 --> 00:47:50,230 and didn't expect much. 1176 00:47:50,250 --> 00:47:53,119 - Here's this one-armed child stepping up, 1177 00:47:53,139 --> 00:47:57,000 and they're like, "Oh, bless his heart. 1178 00:47:57,019 --> 00:47:58,130 I hope he hits this ball." 1179 00:47:58,150 --> 00:48:01,289 - Joe and Marcia Morrissey are Tommy's parents. 1180 00:48:02,010 --> 00:48:04,099 - But then they watch him hit the ball, and they're like... 1181 00:48:05,150 --> 00:48:07,170 - Go! One! 1182 00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:09,170 Two! Keep going! 1183 00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:10,210 Three! Keep going! 1184 00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:12,159 Four! Last one! 1185 00:48:12,179 --> 00:48:15,099 Boom! - Wow! 1186 00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:18,210 - And lest anyone forget Tommy was only seven years old, 1187 00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:21,010 he rode around the course in a golf cart 1188 00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:23,280 adorned with his favorite cartoon character, 1189 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,030 with whom he shared something special. 1190 00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:29,230 - How's the lucky fin? - Lucky. 1191 00:48:29,250 --> 00:48:32,269 - Let's see. - [grunting] 1192 00:48:32,289 --> 00:48:35,280 - This is Nemo. - That's Nemo. 1193 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,130 - That is Nemo. - This one? 1194 00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:40,010 - Yep. - Uh-huh. 1195 00:48:40,030 --> 00:48:43,070 And he's got one big fin and one small one. 1196 00:48:43,090 --> 00:48:46,019 - Yeah. - Who came up with that? 1197 00:48:46,039 --> 00:48:48,030 - Daddy. 1198 00:48:48,050 --> 00:48:49,269 - When Joe and Marcia Morrissey 1199 00:48:49,289 --> 00:48:51,219 got married in 2007, 1200 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,239 they were eager to start a family, 1201 00:48:53,260 --> 00:48:56,019 but during a routine doctor's visit, 1202 00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:57,179 the doctor informed Marcia 1203 00:48:57,199 --> 00:49:00,039 that their son was caught beneath her ribs, 1204 00:49:00,059 --> 00:49:04,039 had developed a blood clot, and wouldn't be quite whole. 1205 00:49:04,059 --> 00:49:06,269 - He said, "Your baby's right arm did not develop. 1206 00:49:06,289 --> 00:49:08,199 He's gonna be born without an arm." 1207 00:49:08,219 --> 00:49:11,219 And I immediately started wailing 1208 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,079 and crying and screaming. 1209 00:49:13,099 --> 00:49:15,260 - All I did was focus on all the negatives. 1210 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,260 My child won't be able to go fishing with me. 1211 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,010 My child won't be able to go play golf with me. 1212 00:49:20,030 --> 00:49:22,269 My child won't be able to have a catch with me. 1213 00:49:22,289 --> 00:49:24,190 I wallowed in self-pity. 1214 00:49:24,210 --> 00:49:26,059 - But then one day, 1215 00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:29,110 while trying to take his mind off of his unborn child, 1216 00:49:29,130 --> 00:49:31,030 Joe went to the golf course, 1217 00:49:31,050 --> 00:49:34,030 where he saw a 12-year-old boy playing golf, 1218 00:49:34,050 --> 00:49:37,090 and when he looked closer, he noticed something. 1219 00:49:37,110 --> 00:49:39,079 - I had to do a double take. 1220 00:49:39,099 --> 00:49:42,179 And he was missing below his elbow. 1221 00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:45,059 And I started asking him questions. 1222 00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:48,070 He talked about his sports. He talked about how he did it. 1223 00:49:48,090 --> 00:49:51,179 He talked about his ability to field a baseball. 1224 00:49:51,199 --> 00:49:53,210 - So, in that 12-year-old boy, 1225 00:49:53,230 --> 00:49:57,070 you could finally see your own son's future. 1226 00:49:57,090 --> 00:50:00,219 - Yeah. That child just being a boy 1227 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,190 changed my life. 1228 00:50:02,210 --> 00:50:05,090 - So, when Marcia gave birth to their son, 1229 00:50:05,110 --> 00:50:06,239 Joe was ready. 1230 00:50:06,260 --> 00:50:08,190 - I held him for the first time, 1231 00:50:08,210 --> 00:50:10,039 and I grabbed that short arm, 1232 00:50:10,059 --> 00:50:13,289 and I said, "I will always protect you, 1233 00:50:14,010 --> 00:50:17,289 "and I will give you 100% of what I have got 1234 00:50:18,010 --> 00:50:21,099 to give you whatever it is that you want to do." 1235 00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:23,130 - You ready? - Ready. 1236 00:50:23,150 --> 00:50:25,079 - Yay! - Yay! 1237 00:50:25,099 --> 00:50:27,039 Good boy! 1238 00:50:27,059 --> 00:50:29,079 - I did it! 1239 00:50:29,099 --> 00:50:31,280 - Tommy, it turned out, wanted to do it all. 1240 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,079 From the time he could stand, 1241 00:50:33,099 --> 00:50:35,159 he wanted to play every sport he could, 1242 00:50:35,179 --> 00:50:38,219 from football... 1243 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,000 to baseball... 1244 00:50:40,019 --> 00:50:41,059 - Whoa! - Whoa! 1245 00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:42,099 - To soccer. 1246 00:50:42,119 --> 00:50:44,139 - Whoa. Good one, bud. 1247 00:50:44,159 --> 00:50:47,150 - But what he loved most of all was golf 1248 00:50:47,170 --> 00:50:49,050 and golf clubs. 1249 00:50:49,070 --> 00:50:51,099 - He beat the living hell out of those things. 1250 00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:55,090 - He started carrying golf clubs up to his crib, 1251 00:50:55,110 --> 00:50:56,239 and he would carry-- 1252 00:50:56,260 --> 00:50:58,190 however he did it, because he must've done it 1253 00:50:58,210 --> 00:51:00,190 while we were not looking. 1254 00:51:00,210 --> 00:51:03,260 But he would have Joe's golf clubs in his crib. 1255 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,119 - A lot of little kids, 1256 00:51:05,139 --> 00:51:08,019 they may take a teddy bear to bed 1257 00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:09,219 because it makes them feel cozy. 1258 00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,230 Mm-hmm. 1259 00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:12,219 - But for you, it was golf clubs? 1260 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,230 - Yep, every new club I get, I sleep with it. 1261 00:51:15,250 --> 00:51:16,289 - Wow. 1262 00:51:17,010 --> 00:51:19,139 Does it, like, help you dream about golf or something? 1263 00:51:19,159 --> 00:51:20,139 - Oh, yeah. - Really? 1264 00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:22,239 - I pretty much dream about it every time. 1265 00:51:22,260 --> 00:51:24,090 - Even as a toddler, 1266 00:51:24,110 --> 00:51:26,090 Tommy would wake up from his dreams 1267 00:51:26,110 --> 00:51:28,280 and would mimic players he saw on TV. 1268 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,280 Just one problem, though-- 1269 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,199 they all had two arms. 1270 00:51:32,219 --> 00:51:35,179 So he began to figure out what he needed to do. 1271 00:51:35,199 --> 00:51:37,179 - I do bounce it off my neck, 1272 00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:40,030 'cause when you bounce it off your neck, 1273 00:51:40,050 --> 00:51:42,079 it gives you more power to hit the ball. 1274 00:51:42,099 --> 00:51:44,119 - You figured that out by yourself? 1275 00:51:44,139 --> 00:51:45,239 - Yeah. - Nobody taught you that? 1276 00:51:45,260 --> 00:51:47,099 - Nope. - [chuckles] 1277 00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:49,260 Nobody could, I guess, right? - Nope. 1278 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,000 I just hit the ball. It goes far. 1279 00:51:52,019 --> 00:51:53,090 - [chuckles] 1280 00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:56,199 - Fore! 1281 00:51:56,219 --> 00:51:59,280 - Of course, it's a little more complicated than that. 1282 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,269 To learn just how Tommy did it, 1283 00:52:01,289 --> 00:52:04,019 we went to PGA National Resort 1284 00:52:04,039 --> 00:52:06,059 in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. 1285 00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:08,269 There we met golf pro Steven Cox, 1286 00:52:08,289 --> 00:52:12,019 who had been studying Tommy's swing for two years 1287 00:52:12,039 --> 00:52:13,219 using this machine. 1288 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,170 Cox found that because of Tommy's missing arm, 1289 00:52:16,190 --> 00:52:19,139 he used his legs to push off the ground 1290 00:52:19,159 --> 00:52:22,170 harder than any golfer Cox had ever seen. 1291 00:52:22,190 --> 00:52:24,050 Do your thing, Tom. 1292 00:52:26,289 --> 00:52:31,059 - So you see this huge power move... 1293 00:52:31,079 --> 00:52:35,230 at 7.88 times his total pressure to start. 1294 00:52:35,250 --> 00:52:38,179 - How does 7.88 compare 1295 00:52:38,199 --> 00:52:41,230 to the rest of the golf world? 1296 00:52:41,250 --> 00:52:43,130 - That would be anywhere 1297 00:52:43,150 --> 00:52:46,079 from four or five times what I typically see. 1298 00:52:46,099 --> 00:52:47,269 - Four or five times? - Yes. 1299 00:52:47,289 --> 00:52:50,260 - All right, ready? This might go past the line. 1300 00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,079 I'm going past the line. 1301 00:52:55,219 --> 00:52:57,070 - Ooh. - Boom! 1302 00:52:57,090 --> 00:53:00,090 Steven, I think I broke the computer. 1303 00:53:01,199 --> 00:53:04,130 - But for all his extraordinary physical gifts, 1304 00:53:04,150 --> 00:53:07,110 it was the mundane that Tommy struggled with. 1305 00:53:07,130 --> 00:53:09,190 Simple tasks were difficult. 1306 00:53:09,210 --> 00:53:12,050 He needed his mom to buckle his belt. 1307 00:53:12,070 --> 00:53:14,250 And even eating could be a challenge. 1308 00:53:14,269 --> 00:53:17,110 - Like, for a snack, it's hard. 1309 00:53:17,130 --> 00:53:18,289 - What do you mean for a snack? 1310 00:53:19,010 --> 00:53:22,070 - Not opening stuff. - Uh-huh. 1311 00:53:22,090 --> 00:53:25,039 - With this arm, I only could push down... 1312 00:53:25,059 --> 00:53:26,179 - Mm-hmm. - Into the package. 1313 00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:27,190 - Mm-hmm. 1314 00:53:27,210 --> 00:53:30,139 So you figured out how to do amazing things... 1315 00:53:30,159 --> 00:53:32,110 - Yeah. - With your short arm. 1316 00:53:32,130 --> 00:53:34,039 - Yeah. - But there are some things 1317 00:53:34,059 --> 00:53:35,190 that are still hard to do. 1318 00:53:35,210 --> 00:53:38,010 - Mm-hmm. - Maybe, um... 1319 00:53:38,030 --> 00:53:39,139 maybe tying shoes. - Yeah. 1320 00:53:39,159 --> 00:53:41,079 I can't even do that. - Yeah. 1321 00:53:41,099 --> 00:53:43,039 - I only could wear click shoes 1322 00:53:43,059 --> 00:53:44,280 or Velcro. 1323 00:53:46,099 --> 00:53:48,090 - But his greatest challenge, it turned out, 1324 00:53:48,110 --> 00:53:50,190 was the one none of us could see-- 1325 00:53:50,210 --> 00:53:53,179 his battle for self-acceptance. 1326 00:53:53,199 --> 00:53:55,119 - He came home from school, 1327 00:53:55,139 --> 00:53:58,000 and he said, "Mama, can I talk to you?" 1328 00:53:58,019 --> 00:54:01,130 And I said, "Sure, baby. What's on your mind?" 1329 00:54:01,150 --> 00:54:03,159 "Mama, I don't like myself." 1330 00:54:05,150 --> 00:54:06,280 And I said, "What? 1331 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,179 "What do you mean you don't like yourself? 1332 00:54:08,199 --> 00:54:10,179 You're amazing. You're a great little boy. 1333 00:54:10,199 --> 00:54:12,079 What is wrong?" 1334 00:54:12,099 --> 00:54:14,250 "I actually hate myself." 1335 00:54:14,269 --> 00:54:17,079 And I said... 1336 00:54:17,099 --> 00:54:18,289 "Why do you hate yourself, babe?" 1337 00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:20,219 And then he just pointed, and he said, 1338 00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,039 "Because of my short arm." 1339 00:54:22,059 --> 00:54:24,190 And he said, "Mama, I just want two hands." 1340 00:54:24,210 --> 00:54:28,070 - I want a prosthetic, and I am getting one, 1341 00:54:28,090 --> 00:54:32,170 but I just want it, like, right now 'cause... 1342 00:54:32,190 --> 00:54:35,090 a lot of kids say, "What happened to your arm?" 1343 00:54:35,110 --> 00:54:36,190 And I don't like it. 1344 00:54:36,210 --> 00:54:37,250 - Mm. 1345 00:54:37,269 --> 00:54:41,130 do they say it in a mean way, or are they just curious? 1346 00:54:41,150 --> 00:54:44,039 - Well, they point at it. - They point at it. 1347 00:54:44,059 --> 00:54:47,250 - And some people, like, look under. 1348 00:54:47,269 --> 00:54:49,030 - Mm-hmm. 1349 00:54:49,050 --> 00:54:50,030 Yeah. 1350 00:54:50,050 --> 00:54:51,280 And it makes you feel uncomfortable. 1351 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,059 - Mm-hmm. 1352 00:54:55,099 --> 00:54:58,159 - For all the things that made Tommy so outwardly different, 1353 00:54:58,179 --> 00:55:01,110 in the end, he was the same as any other kid-- 1354 00:55:01,130 --> 00:55:03,119 just hoping to fit in, 1355 00:55:03,139 --> 00:55:05,280 which may explain what's happened in the three years 1356 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,130 since we first met him. 1357 00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:12,099 Tommy has traded in golf, a famously solitary pursuit, 1358 00:55:12,119 --> 00:55:14,039 for baseball, 1359 00:55:14,059 --> 00:55:16,239 a sport where he can be one of the guys. 1360 00:55:16,260 --> 00:55:19,139 all: One, two, three, Phillies! 1361 00:55:19,159 --> 00:55:20,269 - You like being on a team sport? 1362 00:55:20,289 --> 00:55:22,269 - Yes. - What do you like about it? 1363 00:55:22,289 --> 00:55:26,119 - With golf, it kind of gets boring 1364 00:55:26,139 --> 00:55:28,219 when you have nobody, like, to talk to a lot. 1365 00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,019 - Yeah. - Baseball, you get to talk 1366 00:55:31,039 --> 00:55:33,280 to almost everybody on your team a lot. 1367 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,119 [cheers and applause] 1368 00:55:35,139 --> 00:55:38,289 - Turns out, it's not just the game that interests Tommy. 1369 00:55:39,010 --> 00:55:41,119 It's the friends that come with it. 1370 00:55:41,139 --> 00:55:46,030 - He realized what a team sport feels like. 1371 00:55:46,050 --> 00:55:48,090 And he now has a tribe, 1372 00:55:48,110 --> 00:55:51,079 and they're all working together for that one goal. 1373 00:55:51,099 --> 00:55:53,239 And that is far more exciting 1374 00:55:53,260 --> 00:55:56,079 than being out there by himself. 1375 00:55:56,099 --> 00:55:57,130 - Tommy. - Yeah. 1376 00:55:57,150 --> 00:55:59,030 - Dude, can I be on your team? 1377 00:55:59,050 --> 00:56:01,110 - Tommy's parents say that the camaraderie 1378 00:56:01,130 --> 00:56:02,239 has changed their son, 1379 00:56:02,260 --> 00:56:05,110 helping to boost his self-esteem. 1380 00:56:05,130 --> 00:56:06,260 Three years ago, 1381 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,010 their little boy was eager for a prosthetic arm, 1382 00:56:10,030 --> 00:56:12,239 but that no longer seems to be the case. 1383 00:56:12,260 --> 00:56:15,059 - It just kind of stopped coming up. 1384 00:56:15,079 --> 00:56:18,039 He just kind of dropped it, and he has not mentioned it since. 1385 00:56:18,059 --> 00:56:19,079 - I want to ask you, 1386 00:56:19,099 --> 00:56:21,139 'cause we talked about it three years ago-- 1387 00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:23,280 at the time, you were... 1388 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,130 you were very interested in exploring a prosthetic. 1389 00:56:27,150 --> 00:56:29,119 Has that changed? 1390 00:56:29,139 --> 00:56:32,170 - Now I really don't ask a lot, but I used to. 1391 00:56:32,190 --> 00:56:36,130 But now that I'm ten, I kind of can do a lot more stuff, 1392 00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:40,119 'cause now I found a new method of opening a bag of chips, 1393 00:56:40,139 --> 00:56:42,159 'cause that's my hardest thing I've ever done. 1394 00:56:42,179 --> 00:56:44,210 - So you don't really think about a prosthetic anymore. 1395 00:56:44,230 --> 00:56:46,000 - No. 1396 00:56:46,019 --> 00:56:48,150 - Do you think that there'll come a time 1397 00:56:48,170 --> 00:56:51,090 where you might again want a prosthetic? 1398 00:56:51,110 --> 00:56:52,150 - I don't think so. 1399 00:56:52,170 --> 00:56:54,099 - How fast can you throw, Tommy? 1400 00:56:54,119 --> 00:56:55,139 - 53. 1401 00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:57,239 - These days the only thing that seems to be 1402 00:56:57,260 --> 00:56:59,090 on Tommy Morrissey's mind 1403 00:56:59,110 --> 00:57:01,199 is his new favorite sport. 1404 00:57:01,219 --> 00:57:03,070 Whoo! That was heat! 1405 00:57:03,090 --> 00:57:05,090 Nice job, Tommy. - Thank you. 1406 00:57:05,110 --> 00:57:08,190 - And he's putting in the work to get even better. 1407 00:57:08,210 --> 00:57:11,110 Tommy trains weekly with a private coach, 1408 00:57:11,130 --> 00:57:13,130 working on hitting 1409 00:57:13,150 --> 00:57:15,150 and pitching... 1410 00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:17,119 - And try to, like, really pull those fingers tight 1411 00:57:17,139 --> 00:57:19,110 so you can spin it tighter, all right? 1412 00:57:19,130 --> 00:57:22,079 - Even using the kind of high-tech training tools 1413 00:57:22,099 --> 00:57:23,179 that the pros do... 1414 00:57:25,099 --> 00:57:26,179 - There we go. 1415 00:57:26,199 --> 00:57:28,280 - With no end in sight. 1416 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,230 Where are you going with this baseball career? 1417 00:57:31,250 --> 00:57:34,050 - Trying to go to the majors and then to the hall of fame. 1418 00:57:34,070 --> 00:57:35,139 - All the way? - Yes. 1419 00:57:35,159 --> 00:57:38,019 - You ready for greatness? - Yes, definitely. 1420 00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:40,219 ♪ ♪ 1421 00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:42,070 - One quick postscript-- 1422 00:57:42,090 --> 00:57:44,219 should Tommy's baseball dreams ever come true, 1423 00:57:44,239 --> 00:57:47,019 he would not be the first one-armed major leaguer 1424 00:57:47,039 --> 00:57:48,170 in baseball history. 1425 00:57:48,190 --> 00:57:51,130 Back in the '40s, Pete Gray made it to the major leagues 1426 00:57:51,150 --> 00:57:52,239 as an outfielder 1427 00:57:52,260 --> 00:57:55,139 after losing his right arm at the age of six. 1428 00:57:55,159 --> 00:57:58,289 Jim Abbott, who was born with an incomplete right arm, 1429 00:57:59,010 --> 00:58:01,119 pitched for four major league teams in the '90s. 1430 00:58:01,139 --> 00:58:05,070 He won 87 ball games and even threw a no-hitter. 1431 00:58:05,090 --> 00:58:07,019 That's our show for this evening. 1432 00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:08,210 For all of the good folks at "Real Sports," 1433 00:58:08,230 --> 00:58:09,210 I'm Bryant Gumbel. 1434 00:58:09,230 --> 00:58:11,059 Thank you so very much for being with us. 1435 00:58:11,079 --> 00:58:12,239 Please stay safe and good night.