1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,076 ♪ 2 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:14,100 ♪ 3 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,900 {\an1}JANE WILLENBRING: The word that people often use is that I was "triggered." 4 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,333 {\an7}I had a three-year-old daughter, 5 00:00:51,366 --> 00:00:55,766 {\an7}and she came to the lab with me one weekend. 6 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,700 {\an1}I had told her that I was a scientist before, 7 00:01:00,733 --> 00:01:03,766 {\an1}and I don't think it had really clicked in her mind 8 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,066 {\an1}that I was actually a scientist. (laughs) 9 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:09,866 And so she came to the lab with me, 10 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,900 {\an1}and I had my booties, 11 00:01:12,933 --> 00:01:18,233 {\an1}and I was wearing a Tyvek suit, gloves, and goggles... 12 00:01:18,266 --> 00:01:21,200 The whole getup. 13 00:01:21,233 --> 00:01:23,033 {\an1}And she looked at me, and she was just, like, 14 00:01:23,066 --> 00:01:26,433 {\an1}"You really are a scientist, Mommy." 15 00:01:26,466 --> 00:01:30,266 {\an1}And then she said, "I want to be a scientist just like you." 16 00:01:30,300 --> 00:01:35,633 And that was the horrible, like... 17 00:01:35,666 --> 00:01:37,000 (laughs) 18 00:01:37,033 --> 00:01:42,833 {\an1}...sort of lose-it triggering moment that I have ever had. 19 00:01:42,866 --> 00:01:46,033 And, um... 20 00:01:46,066 --> 00:01:47,109 I actually... (clears throat) 21 00:01:47,133 --> 00:01:49,466 {\an1}...started crying at the time. 22 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:51,300 {\an1}And I, you know, she's three, 23 00:01:51,333 --> 00:01:53,533 {\an1}so she doesn't understand why I'm crying. 24 00:01:53,566 --> 00:01:55,866 {\an1}And so I told her that they were happy tears. 25 00:01:55,900 --> 00:02:01,766 {\an1}But they weren't just happy tears. 26 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,966 {\an1}I was thinking about someone treating her like trash 27 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,700 {\an1}in 20 years, like I had been treated like trash. 28 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,800 {\an1}The one thing that I could do to help her the most 29 00:02:14,833 --> 00:02:18,433 {\an1}is to try and make the whole enterprise 30 00:02:18,466 --> 00:02:21,500 {\an1}something that is welcoming to women, 31 00:02:21,533 --> 00:02:24,066 {\an1}and that was something that I hadn't done. 32 00:02:25,833 --> 00:02:28,800 ♪ 33 00:02:28,833 --> 00:02:32,133 WOMAN: We all have images in our head. 34 00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:35,600 {\an1}We have images of 35 00:02:35,633 --> 00:02:41,533 {\an1}what a woman is like, what a man is like. 36 00:02:43,733 --> 00:02:45,600 {\an1}When you ask somebody, 37 00:02:45,633 --> 00:02:48,733 {\an1}"Draw a picture of a scientist," it used to be 38 00:02:48,766 --> 00:02:50,566 all men. 39 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,666 ♪ 40 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:59,900 WOMAN: We were just trying to be scientists. 41 00:02:59,933 --> 00:03:01,500 {\an1}We certainly didn't want to be seen 42 00:03:01,533 --> 00:03:03,533 {\an1}as troublemakers or activists. 43 00:03:03,566 --> 00:03:09,000 {\an8}♪ 44 00:03:09,033 --> 00:03:11,333 {\an8}WOMAN: The big picture is that women 45 00:03:11,366 --> 00:03:15,400 {\an7}are extraordinarily underrepresented in science. 46 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,566 WOMAN: The message that's given is that 47 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,500 {\an1}you somehow don't belong here. 48 00:03:26,633 --> 00:03:30,833 WOMAN: There's a playbook, and it was written by men. 49 00:03:30,866 --> 00:03:33,233 {\an1}And the men pick up on it. 50 00:03:33,266 --> 00:03:35,433 {\an1}They know what the plays are, 51 00:03:35,466 --> 00:03:37,233 {\an1}and I always felt I didn't have the playbook. 52 00:03:37,266 --> 00:03:39,866 (chuckles): You know, I'm just sort of feeling my way 53 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:41,866 {\an1}through this, this game. 54 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:48,766 ♪ 55 00:03:55,033 --> 00:03:58,933 {\an1}(car horns, distant traffic) 56 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,542 {\an8}NANCY HOPKINS: There's your standard striped version. 57 00:04:02,566 --> 00:04:06,433 Beautiful, beautiful little fish. 58 00:04:06,466 --> 00:04:12,033 And if you see, the males are very slender, 59 00:04:12,066 --> 00:04:17,033 and the females have the large belly. 60 00:04:17,066 --> 00:04:19,200 {\an1}Generally a good sign 61 00:04:19,233 --> 00:04:23,266 {\an1}they're going to lay eggs. 62 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:28,833 ♪ 63 00:04:28,866 --> 00:04:33,500 {\an1}I'm Nancy Hopkins, and I was professor of biology 64 00:04:33,533 --> 00:04:35,400 {\an7}at M.I.T. for 40 years, 65 00:04:35,433 --> 00:04:39,166 {\an7}and I retired three years ago. 66 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:45,166 {\an8}(chuckles): Ah-hah, this is a picture of Greta. 67 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,400 {\an7}So this was, this was the first experiment we did, 68 00:04:47,433 --> 00:04:50,333 {\an7}really, in zebra fish. 69 00:04:50,366 --> 00:04:54,833 {\an7}We were still just learning the system. 70 00:04:54,866 --> 00:04:56,542 At the time, I was taking care of the fish, 71 00:04:56,566 --> 00:04:57,809 {\an1}so I was in the fish room, like... 72 00:04:57,833 --> 00:05:00,500 {\an1}I was literally in the lab 365 days of the year. 73 00:05:00,533 --> 00:05:04,400 {\an7}This is actually looking down on a fish embryo. 74 00:05:04,433 --> 00:05:07,966 {\an7}And about this time, there's about a thousand cells. 75 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,933 {\an7}I think about a thousand. 76 00:05:09,966 --> 00:05:12,333 {\an7}And four of those thousand cells are going to go 77 00:05:12,366 --> 00:05:14,600 {\an7}and become the sperm or the eggs of that fish, 78 00:05:14,633 --> 00:05:17,766 {\an7}and those are the four cells. (chuckles) 79 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,533 {\an7}And then they begin to divide. 80 00:05:19,566 --> 00:05:24,400 {\an7}When I was about ten, my mother got cancer. 81 00:05:24,433 --> 00:05:27,333 {\an7}In that generation, the word "cancer" was so terrifying, 82 00:05:27,366 --> 00:05:29,900 {\an7}you didn't say the word. 83 00:05:29,933 --> 00:05:31,766 {\an7}And so she was terrified, 84 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,966 {\an7}and that certainly made a big impression on me, 85 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,576 {\an7}and I'm sure that's partly why I was interested 86 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,666 {\an7}in cancer research later on. 87 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,233 {\an7}I went to a small, private girls' school in Manhattan. 88 00:05:47,266 --> 00:05:49,500 {\an7}They didn't teach a lot of math and science 89 00:05:49,533 --> 00:05:51,100 {\an7}to girls in my generation, 90 00:05:51,133 --> 00:05:53,466 {\an1}because people thought girls didn't like 91 00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:55,333 {\an1}or need much math or science, 92 00:05:55,366 --> 00:05:57,376 {\an1}but I took everything they offered and loved all of it. 93 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,500 ♪ 94 00:05:59,533 --> 00:06:02,033 {\an1}I went to Radcliffe. 95 00:06:02,066 --> 00:06:04,833 {\an1}I was 16, I guess, when I started. 96 00:06:04,866 --> 00:06:06,866 {\an1}In the spring of junior year, 97 00:06:06,900 --> 00:06:10,066 {\an1}I signed up for this course called Bio 2. 98 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:13,766 {\an1}Jim Watson came in, and one hour later, 99 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,366 {\an1}I was a different person. 100 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,366 {\an1}He and Francis Crick had won a Nobel Prize 101 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,700 {\an1}for discovering the structure of DNA. 102 00:06:21,733 --> 00:06:25,400 ♪ 103 00:06:25,433 --> 00:06:29,200 This genetics, this molecular biology, 104 00:06:29,233 --> 00:06:31,866 {\an1}it was the answer to all of the questions 105 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:35,233 {\an1}I'd ever had about everything; this is what life is, 106 00:06:35,266 --> 00:06:36,633 {\an1}this is how it works. 107 00:06:36,666 --> 00:06:38,033 {\an1}It's going to explain 108 00:06:38,066 --> 00:06:40,700 {\an1}everything that living things do and can do. 109 00:06:42,866 --> 00:06:47,833 {\an1}I couldn't imagine going on without being near this science. 110 00:06:47,866 --> 00:06:49,833 {\an1}I just had to be near this. 111 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:54,033 {\an1}I started working in Jim Watson's lab 112 00:06:54,066 --> 00:06:56,200 {\an1}as an undergraduate. 113 00:06:56,233 --> 00:06:58,766 {\an1}It was absolutely thrilling, and I thought, "Well, I'm happy." 114 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,300 ♪ 115 00:07:01,333 --> 00:07:05,033 {\an1}However, there was this odd, funny thing that happened. 116 00:07:05,066 --> 00:07:07,066 {\an1}Francis Crick was coming to visit the lab, 117 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:08,433 {\an1}and he was going to give a talk. 118 00:07:08,466 --> 00:07:12,566 {\an1}And this was enormously exciting, because, of course, 119 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,266 {\an1}Jim just thought Francis was a genius. 120 00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:15,266 {\an1}I thought Jim was a genius. 121 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:16,666 {\an1}Jim thought Francis was a genius... 122 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:18,666 {\an1}wow, how smart could this guy be? 123 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:21,900 {\an1}So I was very excited Francis was coming, 124 00:07:21,933 --> 00:07:24,933 {\an1}and I was sitting at my desk in this little lab, 125 00:07:24,966 --> 00:07:27,500 {\an1}which was adjacent to Jim's office. 126 00:07:27,533 --> 00:07:31,566 {\an1}And the door flies open. 127 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,709 {\an1}I was in the room alone, and there's standing Francis Crick. 128 00:07:33,733 --> 00:07:36,566 {\an1}He comes flying across the room, 129 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,700 {\an1}puts his hands on my chest and breasts, 130 00:07:39,733 --> 00:07:41,633 and says, "What are you working on?" 131 00:07:41,666 --> 00:07:42,709 {\an1}You know, looks at my notebook 132 00:07:42,733 --> 00:07:44,566 and says, "What are you working on?" 133 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,833 {\an1}And I was so startled, 134 00:07:46,866 --> 00:07:48,433 {\an1}I didn't quite know what to say or do. 135 00:07:48,466 --> 00:07:53,133 {\an1}So I sort of straightened up and said, "Oh, well, here, 136 00:07:53,166 --> 00:07:55,266 {\an1}"let me show you this, I'm doing this experiment. 137 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:58,166 Somehow, this, I'm trying to do this." 138 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,533 {\an1}And at the time, the word "sexual harassment" 139 00:08:00,566 --> 00:08:04,500 {\an1}didn't exist... it wouldn't have crossed my mind. 140 00:08:04,533 --> 00:08:06,966 {\an1}So I just didn't want to make a fuss. 141 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,209 {\an1}I didn't want Francis to be embarrassed. 142 00:08:08,233 --> 00:08:11,533 {\an1}I didn't want Jim to be embarrassed. 143 00:08:11,566 --> 00:08:14,600 {\an1}I just tried to pretend nothing had happened. 144 00:08:20,833 --> 00:08:25,866 {\an1}(seagulls squawking) 145 00:08:32,300 --> 00:08:34,500 (keys jingle) 146 00:08:34,533 --> 00:08:36,700 {\an1}Not losing the keys to the car 147 00:08:36,733 --> 00:08:39,033 {\an1}is the most important part of field work. 148 00:08:39,066 --> 00:08:40,933 (laughs) 149 00:08:40,966 --> 00:08:43,600 And hiking. 150 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,100 {\an1}This is an area of coastline in California 151 00:08:50,133 --> 00:08:54,766 {\an1}that is really being impacted by cliff retreat. 152 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:02,600 {\an1}We're really interested in 153 00:09:02,633 --> 00:09:05,200 {\an1}figuring out how fast 154 00:09:05,233 --> 00:09:07,400 {\an1}sea level rise is going to impact 155 00:09:07,433 --> 00:09:09,966 {\an1}the coastal zones. 156 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,466 ♪ 157 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:13,966 {\an1}I'm Jane Willenbring. 158 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,000 {\an7}I'm an associate professor at Scripps Institution 159 00:09:17,033 --> 00:09:19,433 {\an8}of Oceanography, which is part of U.C. San Diego. 160 00:09:19,466 --> 00:09:21,933 ♪ 161 00:09:21,966 --> 00:09:24,276 {\an1}One of the things that I think is great about being someone 162 00:09:24,300 --> 00:09:28,966 {\an1}who studies how landscapes change over time 163 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,133 {\an1}is that it is so incredibly important 164 00:09:31,166 --> 00:09:34,566 {\an1}for maintaining our way of life, basically. 165 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,200 ♪ 166 00:09:37,233 --> 00:09:41,000 {\an1}One of the ways that we're trying to create resilience 167 00:09:41,033 --> 00:09:45,466 {\an1}and adaptability to climate change impact 168 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:48,400 {\an1}is through figuring out what will happen to 169 00:09:48,433 --> 00:09:51,166 coastal areas. 170 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,166 {\an1}One of the things that 171 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,600 {\an1}drew me to Earth science 172 00:09:56,633 --> 00:09:59,000 {\an1}when I was starting my degree was, you get to use 173 00:09:59,033 --> 00:10:00,866 {\an1}all of the different kinds of science 174 00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:06,000 {\an1}to really understand how we are impacting the Earth, 175 00:10:06,033 --> 00:10:07,600 {\an1}and people were arguing at the time 176 00:10:07,633 --> 00:10:11,700 {\an1}about whether there was going to be this massive deglaciation 177 00:10:11,733 --> 00:10:15,800 {\an1}of East Antarctica if we warmed the Earth 178 00:10:15,833 --> 00:10:18,000 {\an1}just a couple of degrees. 179 00:10:18,033 --> 00:10:22,766 {\an1}Field work in Antarctica seemed like a perfect, you know, 180 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,533 {\an1}trajectory for my science life. 181 00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:37,833 {\an1}I decided to go to 182 00:10:37,866 --> 00:10:41,833 {\an1}Boston University to get a master's degree. 183 00:10:41,866 --> 00:10:44,933 {\an1}I started the program in 1999. 184 00:10:44,966 --> 00:10:46,533 {\an1}I was going to work with Dave Marchant, 185 00:10:46,566 --> 00:10:52,966 {\an7}looking at the glacial history of a part of East Antarctica. 186 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,666 {\an7}He was a really important person in the field. 187 00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:59,566 {\an1}He even had a glacier named after him. 188 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,100 {\an1}And I was incredibly thrilled to get the opportunity to go. 189 00:11:03,133 --> 00:11:06,100 {\an1}It was like a dream come true, actually. 190 00:11:09,266 --> 00:11:13,033 {\an1}So we were going to head out in the field in early December. 191 00:11:13,066 --> 00:11:17,000 {\an1}It actually takes a long time to even get there. 192 00:11:17,033 --> 00:11:20,900 {\an1}We went from Boston to New Zealand, 193 00:11:20,933 --> 00:11:23,566 {\an1}New Zealand to McMurdo, and then finally, 194 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,266 {\an1}we go out with all of our tents via helicopter 195 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:30,533 into the field, and then we were 196 00:11:30,566 --> 00:11:33,766 just there. 197 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,466 {\an1}It's such an incredibly blue sky... 198 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:39,300 {\an1}the bluest sky, maybe, 199 00:11:39,333 --> 00:11:41,833 {\an1}that I've ever seen in my life. 200 00:11:41,866 --> 00:11:43,066 {\an1}You just have rock 201 00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:47,300 {\an1}and mountains and ice as far as you can see. 202 00:11:49,766 --> 00:11:51,266 {\an1}It is like nowhere else. 203 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:55,200 {\an1}There were four people in the group. 204 00:11:55,233 --> 00:11:58,600 {\an1}So there was Dave Marchant, his brother, and then also 205 00:11:58,633 --> 00:12:01,400 {\an1}a master's student from the University of Maine, 206 00:12:01,433 --> 00:12:03,933 Adam Lewis. 207 00:12:03,966 --> 00:12:07,266 {\an1}The order of things, in, in some cases, 208 00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:09,533 {\an1}is quite jumbled in my mind. 209 00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:15,900 {\an1}I do know that there was a definite break between 210 00:12:15,933 --> 00:12:17,600 {\an1}when we were in, even McMurdo, 211 00:12:17,633 --> 00:12:19,800 {\an1}when we were surrounded by other scientists 212 00:12:19,833 --> 00:12:23,800 {\an1}and program officers from the National Science Foundation. 213 00:12:23,833 --> 00:12:27,200 {\an1}And it wasn't until we got to the field 214 00:12:27,233 --> 00:12:29,533 that sort of the filters were off. 215 00:12:29,566 --> 00:12:32,266 There was some "Saturday Night Live" skit. 216 00:12:32,300 --> 00:12:34,900 {\an1}Jane, you ignorant slut. 217 00:12:34,933 --> 00:12:37,233 (laughter) 218 00:12:37,266 --> 00:12:41,466 WILLENBRING: Dave would start off from that sort of pop-culture reference 219 00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:45,733 {\an1}to just calling me a slut, and then "slut" went to "whore," 220 00:12:45,766 --> 00:12:47,066 {\an1}and then "whore" went to (bleep). 221 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,133 ♪ 222 00:12:50,166 --> 00:12:53,633 {\an1}We'd have to deal with all of these stories 223 00:12:53,666 --> 00:12:55,800 {\an1}about how slutty I was, 224 00:12:55,833 --> 00:12:58,766 {\an1}and how I'd be good for this person, 225 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,400 {\an1}who is a helicopter pilot, or this person, who is his brother. 226 00:13:02,433 --> 00:13:06,366 {\an1}And I just wanted to talk about science. 227 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,400 ♪ 228 00:13:10,433 --> 00:13:13,400 At one point, he decided to just, 229 00:13:13,433 --> 00:13:16,633 {\an1}every time that I had to go to the bathroom, 230 00:13:16,666 --> 00:13:20,000 {\an1}just throw rocks at me. 231 00:13:20,033 --> 00:13:23,566 {\an1}Little tiny pebbles most of the time. 232 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,766 {\an1}So there are no trees to hide behind, 233 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,133 {\an1}no bushes or anything like that. 234 00:13:30,166 --> 00:13:32,600 {\an1}It was so embarrassing and 235 00:13:32,633 --> 00:13:38,433 {\an1}demeaning, and so I stopped... 236 00:13:38,466 --> 00:13:42,433 {\an1}I stopped drinking water during the day 237 00:13:42,466 --> 00:13:45,433 {\an1}so that I wouldn't have to go to the bathroom as much, 238 00:13:45,466 --> 00:13:50,066 {\an1}and I ended up getting a bladder infection. 239 00:13:50,100 --> 00:13:53,466 {\an1}And eventually, there was blood in my urine, 240 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:58,433 {\an1}and I've actually had, had sort of bladder problems 241 00:13:58,466 --> 00:14:02,066 {\an1}ever since that time. 242 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:04,566 {\an8}(wind howling) 243 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,900 {\an7}We were looking for ash inside of these belts of sediment 244 00:14:08,933 --> 00:14:14,600 {\an7}and, and boulders that form on the margins of glaciers. 245 00:14:14,633 --> 00:14:18,066 {\an1}These ashes can be dated, and so they're great to find. 246 00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:23,766 {\an1}So he had a little bit of ash on this little metal scoop. 247 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,033 {\an1}He motioned to lean in. 248 00:14:25,066 --> 00:14:29,600 {\an1}And so I looked, got down really close to be able to see 249 00:14:29,633 --> 00:14:33,233 {\an1}the individual crystals in the ash. 250 00:14:33,266 --> 00:14:35,966 {\an1}And at that point, 251 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,733 {\an1}he just breathed onto the spoon really quickly, 252 00:14:40,766 --> 00:14:45,733 {\an1}and the glass shards went into my eyes. 253 00:14:45,766 --> 00:14:49,066 {\an1}While I was doubled over in pain, 254 00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:51,500 {\an1}Dave looked at everybody and sort of shrugged and said, 255 00:14:51,533 --> 00:14:54,166 {\an1}"Oops, that went a little too far." 256 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:01,200 {\an7}I remember I was trying to get up a really steep slope. 257 00:15:01,233 --> 00:15:04,966 {\an7}It was covered with moveable debris. 258 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,466 {\an7}So every time I would try to take a couple of steps up, 259 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:12,733 {\an7}I would just naturally slide down one step worth. 260 00:15:12,766 --> 00:15:14,633 {\an7}So it was incredibly frustrating 261 00:15:14,666 --> 00:15:17,600 {\an7}to go up and down this thing. 262 00:15:17,633 --> 00:15:20,966 {\an7}Dave was at the top at one point, 263 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,833 {\an7}and I had just gotten about 264 00:15:22,866 --> 00:15:25,233 {\an7}three-quarters of the way up the hill, 265 00:15:25,266 --> 00:15:30,033 and he grabbed the back of my backpack 266 00:15:30,066 --> 00:15:32,933 {\an1}and just pushed me down the hill. 267 00:15:34,633 --> 00:15:38,400 {\an1}I remember just sort of weeping 268 00:15:38,433 --> 00:15:41,866 {\an1}at the bottom of this hill. 269 00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:44,266 {\an1}And I just decided at that moment 270 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:49,800 {\an1}to just sort of let everything kind of wash over me 271 00:15:49,833 --> 00:15:56,700 {\an1}and that I was just going to decide to do something later. 272 00:15:56,733 --> 00:16:03,066 ♪ 273 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:06,066 {\an1}I didn't know how long that later would be, 274 00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:10,900 {\an1}because my future was still in his hands. 275 00:16:10,933 --> 00:16:15,666 {\an1}After we got back and then the year after. 276 00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:19,000 {\an1}And so it just became sort of this, like, later, like, 277 00:16:19,033 --> 00:16:21,166 {\an1}this point on the horizon. 278 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:26,200 ♪ 279 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:36,766 {\an1}(indistinct chatter) 280 00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:44,133 MAN: I'd like to welcome all of you to this convocation 281 00:16:44,166 --> 00:16:47,300 {\an1}on a most important topic. 282 00:16:47,333 --> 00:16:50,200 {\an7}Together, we can do better, certainly, 283 00:16:50,233 --> 00:16:52,800 {\an7}addressing sexual harassment. 284 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:01,309 {\an8}PAULA JOHNSON: The best estimates are, about 285 00:17:01,333 --> 00:17:06,066 {\an7}50% of women faculty and staff 286 00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:08,700 {\an1}experience sexual harassment, 287 00:17:08,733 --> 00:17:13,633 {\an1}and those numbers have not really shifted over time. 288 00:17:13,666 --> 00:17:15,333 {\an1}If you think about science, 289 00:17:15,366 --> 00:17:19,300 {\an1}right now, we have a system that is built on dependence, 290 00:17:19,333 --> 00:17:22,266 {\an7}really singular dependence, of trainees, 291 00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:24,700 {\an7}whether they are medical students, 292 00:17:24,733 --> 00:17:28,466 {\an7}whether they are undergraduates, or if they're graduate students, 293 00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:31,700 {\an1}on faculty for their funding, for their futures. 294 00:17:31,733 --> 00:17:34,433 {\an1}And that really sets up a dynamic 295 00:17:34,466 --> 00:17:37,500 {\an7}that is highly problematic. 296 00:17:37,533 --> 00:17:39,566 {\an7}It really creates an environment 297 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,800 {\an7}in which harassment can occur. 298 00:17:42,833 --> 00:17:45,733 {\an7}Generally speaking, sexual forms of sexual harassment... 299 00:17:45,766 --> 00:17:48,500 {\an8}like come-ons, unwanted sexual advances... 300 00:17:48,533 --> 00:17:51,166 {\an7}those are actually the rarest forms of sexual harassment. 301 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,800 {\an1}They actually don't happen very much. 302 00:17:52,833 --> 00:17:55,033 {\an1}Mostly you see put-downs. 303 00:17:56,966 --> 00:18:01,066 {\an8}JOHNSON: We use the metaphor of an iceberg to really get across 304 00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:06,000 {\an1}the various forms of sexual harassment. 305 00:18:06,033 --> 00:18:08,266 {\an1}What's gotten most of the attention 306 00:18:08,300 --> 00:18:12,633 {\an1}is unwanted sexual attention, coercion. 307 00:18:12,666 --> 00:18:14,633 {\an1}Those are in the public eye, 308 00:18:14,666 --> 00:18:16,166 {\an1}and I think everyone would agree 309 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,666 {\an1}we absolutely need to address those. 310 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,100 CLANCY: And then you have all the stuff that's underneath. 311 00:18:22,133 --> 00:18:25,100 {\an1}Those are actually more than 90% of the sexual harassment. 312 00:18:25,133 --> 00:18:27,300 You know, the subtle exclusions, 313 00:18:27,333 --> 00:18:28,733 {\an1}being left off an email, 314 00:18:28,766 --> 00:18:30,076 {\an1}not being invited to a collaboration 315 00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:32,133 {\an1}where you're the clear expert. 316 00:18:32,166 --> 00:18:34,766 {\an1}Just these little moments that make a woman feel 317 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,433 {\an1}like she doesn't belong, that's a really common experience. 318 00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:44,200 {\an8}JOHNSON: We found that consistent gender harassment 319 00:18:44,233 --> 00:18:49,200 {\an1}actually has the same impact as a single episode 320 00:18:49,233 --> 00:18:54,400 {\an1}of unwanted sexual attention or coercion. 321 00:18:54,433 --> 00:18:58,566 {\an1}So it is not something to be ignored. 322 00:19:07,866 --> 00:19:11,700 (birds chirping) 323 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,309 {\an8}RAYCHELLE BURKS: This is our shared lab facility. 324 00:19:19,333 --> 00:19:22,500 {\an1}So all of the chemistry professors 325 00:19:22,533 --> 00:19:25,966 have lab space, some corner of it, here. 326 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:32,800 ♪ 327 00:19:32,833 --> 00:19:34,800 {\an1}I'm Raychelle Burks. 328 00:19:34,833 --> 00:19:37,233 {\an7}I am an assistant professor of chemistry. 329 00:19:37,266 --> 00:19:40,933 {\an1}So we make sensor arrays. 330 00:19:40,966 --> 00:19:44,933 {\an1}When they're exposed to different environments, 331 00:19:44,966 --> 00:19:48,233 {\an1}they have chemical reactions that they'll undergo. 332 00:19:48,266 --> 00:19:50,733 {\an1}So it might be something 333 00:19:50,766 --> 00:19:53,533 {\an1}like phenolphthalein, 334 00:19:53,566 --> 00:19:55,009 {\an1}which, anyone who's watched, like, the crime shows, 335 00:19:55,033 --> 00:19:56,742 and it's, like, "We found this," you know... 336 00:19:56,766 --> 00:19:59,333 {\an1}They swab something, and then it's, like, drop, drop, 337 00:19:59,366 --> 00:20:02,300 {\an1}another bottle, drop, and they're, like, "It's blood." 338 00:20:02,333 --> 00:20:05,733 {\an1}And it's gone from being colorless to being bright pink. 339 00:20:05,766 --> 00:20:08,333 {\an1}The things I'm trying to find are usually 340 00:20:08,366 --> 00:20:10,033 {\an1}the nefarious things. 341 00:20:10,066 --> 00:20:12,866 {\an1}So biological and chemical weapons, explosives. 342 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:16,466 {\an1}I design systems to find those. 343 00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:18,066 {\an1}The types of tests I'm building 344 00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:22,333 {\an1}are for natural disaster/ war zone situations, 345 00:20:22,366 --> 00:20:25,866 {\an1}where you're trying to do a quick screen. 346 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:28,200 {\an1}And it could be Hurricane Maria or Hurricane Harvey. 347 00:20:28,233 --> 00:20:29,966 {\an1}Especially Flint. 348 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,833 NEWS ANCHOR: Flint residents filed a federal lawsuit accusing 349 00:20:32,866 --> 00:20:35,933 {\an1}the city and state of endangering their health 350 00:20:35,966 --> 00:20:37,376 {\an1}by exposing them to dangerous lead levels 351 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,266 {\an1}in their town water... 352 00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:42,333 NEWS ANCHOR: Flood waters in New Orleans are full of sewage and bacteria 353 00:20:42,366 --> 00:20:44,400 {\an1}that can make people sick. 354 00:20:44,433 --> 00:20:47,466 {\an1}Federal officials joined local agencies in urging... 355 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,300 {\an1}You know, from a social justice angle, 356 00:20:49,333 --> 00:20:52,166 {\an1}people still need some kind of testing metric 357 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,400 {\an1}and to get an answer, 358 00:20:53,433 --> 00:20:55,933 {\an1}especially in that kind of environment. 359 00:20:55,966 --> 00:20:58,366 {\an1}You know, is there some type of test 360 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,433 {\an1}where you're not pricing the user out of it? 361 00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:05,900 {\an1}That's what my group does. 362 00:21:05,933 --> 00:21:09,433 {\an1}By using all of this information and statistics, 363 00:21:09,466 --> 00:21:10,633 {\an1}get to the point where 364 00:21:10,666 --> 00:21:13,500 {\an1}the final product, we hand it off to the user, 365 00:21:13,533 --> 00:21:17,566 {\an1}and what they get is a simple-to-use test. 366 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,342 {\an1}Like, kind of on the pregnancy test, where it's, like, 367 00:21:19,366 --> 00:21:21,533 {\an1}"Okay, so double lines means... 368 00:21:21,566 --> 00:21:23,333 What again? Single line means..." 369 00:21:23,366 --> 00:21:24,566 {\an1}You know, like... (laughs) 370 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,666 {\an1}But you have, like, that little diagram. 371 00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:32,233 {\an1}I grew up in the L.A. area. 372 00:21:32,266 --> 00:21:35,400 {\an1}Very big high school, 3,000. 373 00:21:35,433 --> 00:21:38,800 {\an1}And the classes are packed. 374 00:21:38,833 --> 00:21:42,766 {\an1}I don't remember any teacher in high school being, like, 375 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,866 "You can do it," in the sciences in any way, 376 00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:49,000 {\an1}but I just kept showing up. 377 00:21:49,033 --> 00:21:51,900 {\an1}It's funny, a lot of the scientists I think of 378 00:21:51,933 --> 00:21:54,466 {\an1}growing up are actually fictional characters. 379 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:58,233 {\an1}"STAR TREK" NARRATOR: To boldly go where no man has gone before. 380 00:21:58,266 --> 00:22:00,500 {\an1}Like, Uhura was a scientist. 381 00:22:00,533 --> 00:22:02,266 Progress report. 382 00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:05,733 {\an1}I'm connecting the bypass circuit now, sir. 383 00:22:05,766 --> 00:22:07,176 BURKS: And she was in charge of comms, 384 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,466 {\an1}but really, she was a scientist. 385 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,466 {\an1}Going through college, you know, 386 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:17,033 {\an1}there were no Black women chemistry professors 387 00:22:17,066 --> 00:22:18,566 that I had. 388 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,266 {\an1}I heard that they existed, though. 389 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,466 (laughs): But I never had any. 390 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:27,700 {\an1}I went to get a PhD in chemistry 391 00:22:27,733 --> 00:22:29,800 so I would have more employment options. 392 00:22:29,833 --> 00:22:34,466 {\an8}♪ 393 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,233 {\an1}There are lots of things I love about the sciences 394 00:22:44,266 --> 00:22:47,100 {\an1}and I love about academia and my job. 395 00:22:47,133 --> 00:22:50,433 {\an1}But then there's also some real bull(bleep). 396 00:22:50,466 --> 00:22:52,733 ♪ 397 00:22:52,766 --> 00:22:54,300 In academia, 398 00:22:54,333 --> 00:22:56,666 {\an1}as women of color, 399 00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:58,833 {\an1}we're going to have different types of abuse 400 00:22:58,866 --> 00:23:00,966 {\an1}from different people. 401 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,200 {\an1}I remember when I was in my office once, 402 00:23:03,233 --> 00:23:05,933 {\an1}sitting at my desk, at my computer. 403 00:23:05,966 --> 00:23:08,400 {\an1}Like, I've got, you know, papers spread out. 404 00:23:08,433 --> 00:23:11,233 {\an1}And someone comes into my office, and for some reason, 405 00:23:11,266 --> 00:23:12,900 {\an1}assumes I'm the janitor. 406 00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:19,033 {\an1}I mean, I've been in meetings 407 00:23:19,066 --> 00:23:20,800 {\an1}where you've made a suggestion 408 00:23:20,833 --> 00:23:22,333 or said, "Well, what about this?" 409 00:23:22,366 --> 00:23:24,866 And it was like you'd never spoke at all. 410 00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:28,433 {\an1}But if a white guy says it, you're, like... 411 00:23:28,466 --> 00:23:30,626 {\an1}And now it'll magically be heard, everybody watch this. 412 00:23:35,133 --> 00:23:37,166 {\an1}Sometimes you get these critical emails, 413 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,976 {\an1}and criticism is something that, as a scientist, 414 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,600 {\an1}you have to get used to. 415 00:23:40,633 --> 00:23:42,833 {\an1}But I think it's, is it appropriate? 416 00:23:42,866 --> 00:23:44,009 {\an1}There's been some cases where I'm, like, 417 00:23:44,033 --> 00:23:46,500 {\an1}"Wow, this is wildly inappropriate." 418 00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,366 {\an1}You don't get to just 419 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,033 {\an1}say what you'd really want to say. 420 00:23:54,066 --> 00:23:56,500 {\an1}Like, "How dare you?" 421 00:23:56,533 --> 00:23:58,000 {\an1}I'm going to be seen as, like, 422 00:23:58,033 --> 00:24:01,300 {\an1}the angry Black woman trope anyway, but you have to, like, 423 00:24:01,333 --> 00:24:03,400 {\an1}"Okay, how do I minimize that?" 424 00:24:03,433 --> 00:24:06,233 {\an1}So you spend all this time trying to craft a response 425 00:24:06,266 --> 00:24:09,000 {\an1}or an approach of how to, like, deal with it. 426 00:24:09,033 --> 00:24:12,166 {\an1}It may not seem like a long time... five minutes, 427 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,666 {\an1}ten minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes. 428 00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:16,933 {\an1}And I think about all of that time added up. 429 00:24:16,966 --> 00:24:19,000 {\an1}That's time I'm not spending 430 00:24:19,033 --> 00:24:21,600 {\an1}on grants, on writing papers, 431 00:24:21,633 --> 00:24:23,733 {\an1}on networking with my peers, 432 00:24:23,766 --> 00:24:25,966 {\an1}on just doing research with my students, 433 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,766 {\an1}because I'm trying to navigate these oppressive systems 434 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,700 {\an1}that people who are not in the marginalized communities, 435 00:24:33,733 --> 00:24:37,400 {\an1}not only do they not have to do that, they don't even... 436 00:24:37,433 --> 00:24:39,233 {\an1}It doesn't even register. 437 00:24:39,266 --> 00:24:41,266 {\an1}It's not something that they even think about, 438 00:24:41,300 --> 00:24:44,166 {\an1}let alone it being a time suck in their schedule. 439 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,066 ♪ 440 00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:49,666 {\an1}You have to remember that, because I'm, like... 441 00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:53,166 (whispers): "How's this person, like, able to do, like, all this stuff?" 442 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,566 {\an1}And then you're, like, "Oh." (laughs) 443 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,700 {\an1}"That's because they're not having to do any of that stuff." 444 00:24:58,733 --> 00:25:00,442 {\an1}You know, and that's, that's the other thing 445 00:25:00,466 --> 00:25:03,900 {\an1}you have to kind of remember. 446 00:25:03,933 --> 00:25:08,233 {\an8}♪ 447 00:25:17,733 --> 00:25:19,242 HOPKINS: When you're starting out in science, 448 00:25:19,266 --> 00:25:22,100 {\an7}it's kind of like getting an airplane up off the ground, 449 00:25:22,133 --> 00:25:23,100 {\an7}you know, you've got to get... 450 00:25:23,133 --> 00:25:25,166 {\an1}You've got to get going. 451 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,133 {\an1}Make enough discoveries 452 00:25:27,166 --> 00:25:30,333 {\an1}that you can become known. 453 00:25:30,366 --> 00:25:31,633 {\an1}So I just kept working. 454 00:25:31,666 --> 00:25:34,300 {\an1}A couple of years passed, 455 00:25:34,333 --> 00:25:37,166 {\an1}and suddenly I was called by M.I.T. 456 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,500 {\an1}and asked to apply for a faculty job. 457 00:25:41,866 --> 00:25:47,366 {\an1}But I did begin to have trouble as a junior faculty. 458 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:48,633 These post-docs, 459 00:25:48,666 --> 00:25:51,400 {\an1}I think, saw you more as a technician 460 00:25:51,433 --> 00:25:52,600 {\an1}than a faculty member. 461 00:25:54,966 --> 00:25:56,800 {\an7}The reagents you made and so forth, 462 00:25:56,833 --> 00:25:58,033 {\an7}they saw it as just a... 463 00:25:58,066 --> 00:26:00,466 {\an1}They could just go and take anything they wanted, 464 00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:01,966 {\an1}because after all, what were you? 465 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,700 {\an1}You were just a technician, I guess. 466 00:26:03,733 --> 00:26:06,066 ♪ 467 00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:07,800 {\an1}I'd have to wait to use my own equipment, 468 00:26:07,833 --> 00:26:09,376 {\an1}and they would take things out of the incubator. 469 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:10,900 {\an1}Just take them, you know, 470 00:26:10,933 --> 00:26:13,366 {\an1}and I didn't want to tell them not to, because in that era, 471 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,200 {\an1}women had to be nice to everybody, they had to be 472 00:26:16,233 --> 00:26:17,733 {\an1}polite to everybody. 473 00:26:17,766 --> 00:26:19,933 {\an1}You couldn't, you know, 474 00:26:19,966 --> 00:26:22,966 be unpleasant, or people would say, 475 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,833 {\an1}"Oh, there's that nasty, difficult woman." 476 00:26:24,866 --> 00:26:26,466 {\an1}And then everybody would avoid you. 477 00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:28,200 So I was, didn't want to do that. 478 00:26:29,533 --> 00:26:32,333 {\an1}And the other thing I found is, I started publishing papers, 479 00:26:32,366 --> 00:26:34,166 {\an1}and then I found you'd publish the papers, 480 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,300 {\an1}and you would have trouble 481 00:26:35,333 --> 00:26:37,366 getting credit for the discovery. 482 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,709 {\an1}Everybody feels that way in science. 483 00:26:38,733 --> 00:26:40,109 {\an1}Everyone thinks their work is undervalued, 484 00:26:40,133 --> 00:26:42,166 {\an1}and they're under... Everyone feels that way. 485 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,766 {\an1}But I thought, "No, this is somehow different." 486 00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:50,066 {\an7}And, again, I didn't tell anybody that, 487 00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:52,333 {\an7}because they, who's going to believe you, you know? 488 00:26:52,366 --> 00:26:53,433 {\an8}Nobody. 489 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:56,833 {\an7}So I just kept working, 490 00:26:56,866 --> 00:26:59,133 {\an7}and I got promoted to associate professor, 491 00:26:59,166 --> 00:27:01,276 {\an7}and I guess the letters were very, very good that came in. 492 00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:02,466 {\an8}So I got tenure. 493 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:04,166 {\an8}♪ 494 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,466 {\an7}I began to have these significant problems. 495 00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:10,733 {\an7}It was probably about 1990, roughly. 496 00:27:10,766 --> 00:27:12,766 {\an7}I was going to set up zebra fish. 497 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,066 {\an7}You can do genetics in fish, genetics of behavior, 498 00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:19,533 {\an7}and I needed to get 200 square feet of space 499 00:27:19,566 --> 00:27:21,009 {\an7}to put the fish tanks in, and I couldn't. 500 00:27:21,033 --> 00:27:23,633 {\an7}One man said to me, "You don't think you could 501 00:27:23,666 --> 00:27:25,433 {\an1}really handle a bigger lab, do you?" 502 00:27:25,466 --> 00:27:30,600 {\an1}And I went to the people administering the space, 503 00:27:30,633 --> 00:27:33,766 {\an1}said I'm senior faculty, and I had less space 504 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,766 {\an1}than some junior faculty. 505 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,276 {\an1}The man said, you know, "That's not true." 506 00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:41,466 {\an1}So I literally thought, "Okay, I have to show him it's true." 507 00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:43,600 {\an1}Took a tape measure, 508 00:27:43,633 --> 00:27:45,733 {\an1}and I would go around the building 509 00:27:45,766 --> 00:27:47,609 {\an1}when there weren't people there, and go into the lab, 510 00:27:47,633 --> 00:27:51,500 {\an1}and I would measure the lab, write down the space. 511 00:27:51,533 --> 00:27:54,666 {\an1}And I would color in the spaces that each person had, 512 00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:56,133 {\an1}so I could tell how much space. 513 00:27:56,166 --> 00:27:58,833 {\an1}And I'd keep a chart, and I'd add it up, 514 00:27:58,866 --> 00:28:00,800 {\an1}so it took a lot of time. 515 00:28:00,833 --> 00:28:03,566 {\an1}My idea was that then I would demonstrate, "Here's the data. 516 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,066 {\an1}I have less space, so how can you argue with this?" 517 00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:09,333 {\an1}But when I got the measurements and showed them 518 00:28:09,366 --> 00:28:11,366 {\an1}to the person who was in charge of space, 519 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,500 {\an1}he refused to look at them. 520 00:28:14,533 --> 00:28:19,000 {\an1}And that's when I became a radical... activist, I guess, 521 00:28:19,033 --> 00:28:22,000 {\an1}against my wishes. 522 00:28:22,033 --> 00:28:26,966 ♪ 523 00:28:32,466 --> 00:28:34,200 WILLENBRING: You know, I expected science 524 00:28:34,233 --> 00:28:37,733 {\an7}to be working really hard for something, 525 00:28:37,766 --> 00:28:41,766 {\an7}and I was completely sort of set up 526 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,066 {\an1}for that being the case. 527 00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:47,500 In fact, I enjoyed the struggle 528 00:28:47,533 --> 00:28:50,100 {\an1}and hardship of doing field work, 529 00:28:50,133 --> 00:28:51,800 {\an1}especially when I was younger 530 00:28:51,833 --> 00:28:53,733 {\an1}and my bones didn't creak so much. 531 00:28:53,766 --> 00:28:55,766 (laughs): And... 532 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,566 {\an1}So I was accustomed to that kind of struggle, 533 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,700 {\an1}and adding to that with a kind of struggle 534 00:29:01,733 --> 00:29:04,966 {\an1}that's completely unnecessary and gratuitous 535 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,533 {\an1}was hard to handle, and did make me think 536 00:29:08,566 --> 00:29:10,100 {\an1}about quitting a couple of times. 537 00:29:10,133 --> 00:29:12,133 I had... 538 00:29:12,166 --> 00:29:14,533 {\an1}I had other jobs picked out. 539 00:29:14,566 --> 00:29:18,466 {\an1}I would see a bus pass and think, 540 00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:22,000 {\an1}"Bus driver, that sounds pretty good." 541 00:29:22,033 --> 00:29:25,900 ♪ 542 00:29:25,933 --> 00:29:29,000 {\an1}The things that really got me the most were 543 00:29:29,033 --> 00:29:31,733 {\an1}him telling me that I'm (bleep) stupid 544 00:29:31,766 --> 00:29:35,833 {\an1}and that I'll never have a career in science. 545 00:29:35,866 --> 00:29:40,400 {\an1}Those things that sort of got under my skin 546 00:29:40,433 --> 00:29:43,666 {\an1}in terms of my competence and my abilities as a scientist, 547 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:48,900 {\an7}I never really stopped thinking about those. 548 00:29:52,066 --> 00:29:57,533 {\an1}I didn't really tell many people at all. 549 00:29:57,566 --> 00:30:00,933 {\an1}It was really something that I didn't talk about. 550 00:30:00,966 --> 00:30:03,533 {\an1}So I just kept doing my work. 551 00:30:03,566 --> 00:30:04,733 {\an1}I finished my PhD, 552 00:30:04,766 --> 00:30:08,200 {\an1}then I did a post-doc, 553 00:30:08,233 --> 00:30:11,800 and then took a faculty position. 554 00:30:11,833 --> 00:30:15,633 {\an1}And the whole time, I'm thinking 555 00:30:15,666 --> 00:30:17,933 {\an1}a little bit in the back of my mind that, you know, 556 00:30:17,966 --> 00:30:20,800 {\an1}"Remember, you sort of told yourself 557 00:30:20,833 --> 00:30:23,766 {\an1}that you were going to do something about this?" 558 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,500 {\an1}And I just never did. 559 00:30:25,533 --> 00:30:28,266 {\an1}Look at that structure on the beach. 560 00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:32,266 {\an1}Oh, yeah, they're doing some construction on that building. 561 00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:34,133 Mm-hmm, yeah. 562 00:30:37,066 --> 00:30:40,000 {\an1}It's been a while since we've been on the beach, huh? 563 00:30:40,033 --> 00:30:41,966 {\an1}It's been raining so much. 564 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,633 (chuckles) 565 00:30:45,666 --> 00:30:49,233 Oh, we should remember where our shoes are. 566 00:30:49,266 --> 00:30:51,900 {\an1}Remember, we made that mistake before. (laughs) 567 00:30:51,933 --> 00:30:54,800 ♪ 568 00:30:54,833 --> 00:30:57,500 WILLENBRING: I knew he was still a faculty member there, 569 00:30:57,533 --> 00:30:59,100 and I'd heard through the grapevine 570 00:30:59,133 --> 00:31:01,166 that he was still harassing women. 571 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:07,733 {\an1}After that day with my daughter in the lab, at that point, 572 00:31:07,766 --> 00:31:11,066 {\an1}I realized that, you know, I had tried to create 573 00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:15,966 {\an1}an environment that was very science-friendly for her, 574 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,966 {\an1}and done all of the things 575 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,500 {\an1}that women do to try to get other women 576 00:31:21,533 --> 00:31:24,166 {\an1}or their children into science. 577 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,933 {\an1}The one thing, though, that I could really do 578 00:31:27,966 --> 00:31:30,866 {\an1}was something that I hadn't done. 579 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:34,900 ♪ 580 00:31:34,933 --> 00:31:37,066 I went and 581 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:40,433 {\an1}wrote the Title IX complaint, the first draft of it, 582 00:31:40,466 --> 00:31:41,933 that night. 583 00:31:41,966 --> 00:31:45,633 {\an8}♪ 584 00:31:50,533 --> 00:31:54,166 {\an1}And it was, it was a bit liberating, I have to say. 585 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,566 {\an1}It was 17 years after the fact. 586 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,200 {\an1}I definitely waited until after getting tenure. 587 00:32:03,233 --> 00:32:04,866 {\an1}I told Adam Lewis, 588 00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:08,166 {\an1}the person who was in the field with me. 589 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,433 {\an1}I'd always imagined saying something 590 00:32:11,466 --> 00:32:13,066 {\an1}about how badly I was treated 591 00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:17,900 {\an1}during that field season, and I was expecting him 592 00:32:17,933 --> 00:32:21,433 {\an1}sort of to say, "I don't want any part of this." 593 00:32:21,466 --> 00:32:23,300 {\an1}And instead, he said that 594 00:32:23,333 --> 00:32:27,233 {\an1}he's always felt guilty about that field season, 595 00:32:27,266 --> 00:32:29,200 {\an1}and that he'd be happy to write a letter. 596 00:32:29,233 --> 00:32:32,733 ♪ 597 00:32:42,266 --> 00:32:46,333 {\an1}(indistinct chatter) 598 00:32:54,166 --> 00:32:57,533 BURKS: This conference, like a lot of science spaces, 599 00:32:57,566 --> 00:32:59,466 {\an1}there's always a bit of discomfort. 600 00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,000 {\an7}It's not designed for my comfort. 601 00:33:02,033 --> 00:33:04,366 {\an7}And it's not designed for a lot of people's comfort. 602 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,133 {\an1}It can be, you know, very majority-heavy. 603 00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:12,942 {\an1}And you'll have things, like, people will call out, like, 604 00:33:12,966 --> 00:33:15,100 {\an1}"That's a manel!" 605 00:33:15,133 --> 00:33:16,633 You know, like, all men on your panel. 606 00:33:16,666 --> 00:33:20,133 {\an1}"That panel is whiter than the cast of 'Friends.'" 607 00:33:20,166 --> 00:33:23,533 {\an1}As a field, we have not made the place 608 00:33:23,566 --> 00:33:27,100 {\an1}very accessible and inclusive. 609 00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:43,600 {\an1}(passing traffic) 610 00:33:45,433 --> 00:33:47,700 {\an1}I remember I was parking 611 00:33:47,733 --> 00:33:51,733 {\an1}in the faculty lot, where you need a faculty sticker, 612 00:33:51,766 --> 00:33:53,900 {\an1}which was on the front of my car, 613 00:33:53,933 --> 00:33:56,300 {\an1}and I pulled into a faculty spot 614 00:33:56,333 --> 00:33:59,900 {\an1}because I am faculty with a faculty sticker. (laughs) 615 00:33:59,933 --> 00:34:02,733 {\an1}And this other person who was clear... I mean, 616 00:34:02,766 --> 00:34:04,900 {\an1}I'm assuming maybe she was on staff. 617 00:34:04,933 --> 00:34:08,600 {\an1}She leans out the window and yells at me, 618 00:34:08,633 --> 00:34:11,233 {\an1}"Do you work here? Are you faculty? 619 00:34:11,266 --> 00:34:13,566 {\an1}'Cause this is a faculty lot." 620 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,866 And I said, "Yes, I have a faculty sticker, 621 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:20,900 {\an1}and I'm going to park here." 622 00:34:20,933 --> 00:34:23,566 {\an1}And she looked so... she was, like... 623 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,033 {\an1}"Well, I've never seen you before." 624 00:34:26,066 --> 00:34:28,533 {\an1}And I, like, went, "And I've never seen you." 625 00:34:28,566 --> 00:34:32,333 (laughing): And I just pulled in and then went. 626 00:34:33,733 --> 00:34:36,500 {\an1}I think the higher you go up the ivory tower, 627 00:34:36,533 --> 00:34:38,766 {\an1}the whiter it gets, and the more male, 628 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,800 {\an1}and the more hetero, 629 00:34:40,833 --> 00:34:42,733 {\an1}the kind of majority-dominant viewpoints 630 00:34:42,766 --> 00:34:44,666 come out. 631 00:34:44,700 --> 00:34:46,900 {\an1}I mean, the fact that you can still report on how many, 632 00:34:46,933 --> 00:34:49,866 {\an1}you know, women presidents there are of institutions, 633 00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:51,900 {\an1}how many chairs, how many deans, 634 00:34:51,933 --> 00:34:55,700 {\an1}you know, the numbers are so low that you're reporting on them. 635 00:35:12,766 --> 00:35:15,766 {\an1}You know, academia is especially historically marginalizing... 636 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,133 {\an1}you can be very isolated. 637 00:35:19,166 --> 00:35:21,300 {\an1}You get used to being underestimated. 638 00:35:21,333 --> 00:35:24,966 {\an1}You get used to being treated a bit shabbily. 639 00:35:27,166 --> 00:35:29,166 {\an1}People can insult us to our face 640 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:34,200 {\an1}with inappropriate language and derogatory terminology, 641 00:35:34,233 --> 00:35:37,433 {\an1}but we're the ones that are supposed to be 642 00:35:37,466 --> 00:35:40,366 {\an1}respectful and civil. 643 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,000 {\an1}And it's not that you take it personally. 644 00:35:44,033 --> 00:35:46,933 (voice breaks): You just don't expect any different. 645 00:35:48,266 --> 00:35:51,633 (tearfully): You know, for a long time, 646 00:35:51,666 --> 00:35:54,833 you try to fit, or put the face forward 647 00:35:54,866 --> 00:36:00,733 {\an1}that you are this, whatever they've built science to be. 648 00:36:00,766 --> 00:36:03,300 {\an1}That you talk a certain way, and you look a certain way, 649 00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:07,166 {\an1}and you try to fit into that. 650 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,133 {\an1}And even when you do all that, 651 00:36:10,166 --> 00:36:14,566 {\an1}you're still not considered one of them. 652 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:20,100 ♪ 653 00:36:20,133 --> 00:36:23,200 {\an1}But you just get used to that. 654 00:36:23,233 --> 00:36:25,633 {\an1}You get used to being 655 00:36:25,666 --> 00:36:30,600 {\an1}invisible in the sciences. 656 00:36:30,633 --> 00:36:33,133 {\an1}It's weird, 'cause you're invisible in that way, 657 00:36:33,166 --> 00:36:36,266 {\an1}but then you're hyper-visible, 'cause people are, like, 658 00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:39,566 {\an1}"But why are you here?" (sniffles) 659 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:46,300 ♪ 660 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,566 {\an1}(elevator chimes) 661 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,733 {\an7}Wow, oh, wow, okay, so... 662 00:37:13,766 --> 00:37:16,800 {\an1}This was my office. 663 00:37:16,833 --> 00:37:20,366 This... 664 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,566 {\an1}And that was my lab when I was 665 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,700 {\an1}a junior faculty member. 666 00:37:26,733 --> 00:37:32,333 {\an1}I spent so much of my life there. (chuckles) 667 00:37:32,366 --> 00:37:34,533 {\an1}Yeah, so I was doing these measurements, 668 00:37:34,566 --> 00:37:39,000 {\an1}and I tended to do them at night, because I really thought, 669 00:37:39,033 --> 00:37:40,309 {\an1}you know, people would think it very odd. 670 00:37:40,333 --> 00:37:41,542 {\an1}"What are you doing?", and I didn't really want 671 00:37:41,566 --> 00:37:44,433 {\an1}to explain to anybody, so I would go at night 672 00:37:44,466 --> 00:37:46,833 {\an1}and odd times, and dinner times, 673 00:37:46,866 --> 00:37:49,209 {\an1}when people weren't around, with my little tape measure here, 674 00:37:49,233 --> 00:37:51,000 {\an1}and I would measure all the spaces. 675 00:37:51,033 --> 00:37:53,733 {\an1}And I do remember one night, I was in this room, 676 00:37:53,766 --> 00:37:58,300 {\an1}which I guess no longer exists in the format it used to. 677 00:37:58,333 --> 00:38:00,466 {\an1}And I was, had my measure out. 678 00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:01,933 {\an1}I was doing the measuring. 679 00:38:01,966 --> 00:38:04,366 {\an1}And somebody unexpectedly... It was very quiet... 680 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,676 {\an1}but somebody unexpectedly walked into the room and saw me, 681 00:38:06,700 --> 00:38:09,866 {\an1}and I remember freezing and thinking, "Uh-oh. 682 00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:12,133 {\an1}"Uh-oh, my cover is blown. 683 00:38:12,166 --> 00:38:14,066 {\an1}"Now they're going to wonder 684 00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:16,266 {\an1}what am I doing here," so it was an odd thing. 685 00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:17,633 {\an1}I was a full professor. 686 00:38:17,666 --> 00:38:20,200 {\an1}So what was this woman doing creeping around in the night 687 00:38:20,233 --> 00:38:23,300 {\an1}with a tape measure, measuring the lab space? 688 00:38:31,066 --> 00:38:34,233 {\an1}I expected to fight alone. 689 00:38:34,266 --> 00:38:36,800 {\an1}I didn't expect anybody else to fight 690 00:38:36,833 --> 00:38:41,633 {\an1}with me, but I really knew that I was right. 691 00:38:41,666 --> 00:38:44,300 {\an1}I decided I was going to give M.I.T. a last chance. 692 00:38:44,333 --> 00:38:46,900 {\an1}I didn't go back to the provost, because I was embarrassed. 693 00:38:46,933 --> 00:38:48,276 {\an1}You know, at first, I had this problem, 694 00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:49,566 {\an1}now I've got another problem. 695 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,233 {\an1}So I wrote to the president of M.I.T., and I said, 696 00:38:52,266 --> 00:38:53,366 {\an1}"There's a kind of systemic 697 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:54,709 {\an1}and invisible discrimination against women." 698 00:38:54,733 --> 00:38:58,900 {\an1}And I wrote this letter, and I showed it 699 00:38:58,933 --> 00:39:00,042 {\an1}to another woman faculty member, 700 00:39:00,066 --> 00:39:01,766 {\an1}so she can see whether it would be 701 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,933 {\an1}understandable to the president. 702 00:39:03,966 --> 00:39:05,576 {\an1}And if she approves of that, I'm sending it. 703 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,800 {\an1}And the woman that I chose was, of course, 704 00:39:08,833 --> 00:39:11,066 {\an7}this woman I had revered for so long, 705 00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:14,366 {\an7}and that was Mary-Lou Pardue. 706 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,009 {\an8}PARDUE: From time to time, Nancy and I would get together 707 00:39:16,033 --> 00:39:17,933 {\an7}and talk about things, and so she 708 00:39:17,966 --> 00:39:21,566 {\an7}had wanted me to, to see what I thought about the letter. 709 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,000 HOPKINS: I asked her to have lunch. 710 00:39:26,033 --> 00:39:29,166 {\an1}We went to Rebecca's Cafe, which was just down the street. 711 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,200 {\an1}We sat in this little corner table, 712 00:39:31,233 --> 00:39:34,633 {\an1}noisy lunchtime crowd, and I had my letter. 713 00:39:34,666 --> 00:39:37,600 {\an1}She looks very serious. 714 00:39:37,633 --> 00:39:39,333 {\an1}And we've never talked about gender issues, 715 00:39:39,366 --> 00:39:41,809 {\an1}and I think she's going to think I'm just some loser, you know, 716 00:39:41,833 --> 00:39:42,976 {\an1}who really isn't good enough. 717 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,466 Maybe she thinks I'm not good enough, 718 00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:46,142 {\an1}and that's why these things are happening to me. 719 00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:48,266 {\an1}I had no idea, so it was very embarrassing 720 00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:49,742 and humiliating to ask her to do this. 721 00:39:49,766 --> 00:39:53,300 {\an1}She reads the letter slowly, 722 00:39:53,333 --> 00:39:56,266 {\an1}and I'm watching, and I'm so anxious, because 723 00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:59,700 {\an1}I think she's thinking badly of me. 724 00:39:59,733 --> 00:40:02,366 {\an1}She gets to the bottom, and she says, 725 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,533 {\an1}"I'd like to sign this letter, 726 00:40:05,566 --> 00:40:08,100 {\an1}"and I think we should go and see President Vest, 727 00:40:08,133 --> 00:40:11,066 {\an7}because I've thought these things for a long time." 728 00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:16,266 {\an8}PARDUE: I had seen enough of the kind of things that go on 729 00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:19,733 {\an7}that I really wanted to support her. 730 00:40:19,766 --> 00:40:22,633 {\an8}HOPKINS: We suddenly realized, "Gee, if you get it and I get it, 731 00:40:22,666 --> 00:40:25,633 {\an7}there might be other people who also have figured this out." 732 00:40:25,666 --> 00:40:30,700 {\an8}PARDUE: So then she and I, we went around and talked 733 00:40:30,733 --> 00:40:35,266 {\an7}to each of the tenured women in the School of Science. 734 00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:38,233 {\an8}SYLVIA CEYER: I didn't know her. 735 00:40:38,266 --> 00:40:41,700 {\an7}She came to my office in the spring of '94, 736 00:40:41,733 --> 00:40:45,866 {\an7}and wanted to chat about what it was 737 00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:48,833 {\an7}to be a female in the chemistry department. 738 00:40:48,866 --> 00:40:53,200 {\an7}It became evident that there were very, very few women 739 00:40:53,233 --> 00:40:54,733 {\an7}in the faculty at M.I.T. 740 00:40:54,766 --> 00:40:58,500 {\an8}HOPKINS: 15 women in the six departments of science 741 00:40:58,533 --> 00:41:03,066 {\an8}and 197 men. 742 00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:05,033 {\an8}They were such high-profile women. 743 00:41:05,066 --> 00:41:06,909 {\an7}Half of them were in the National Academy of Science. 744 00:41:06,933 --> 00:41:09,566 {\an7}Most of us didn't really... We knew of each other, 745 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,040 {\an7}but we didn't really know each other. 746 00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:16,400 CEYER: And we made sure this meeting was in a remote location, 747 00:41:16,433 --> 00:41:19,000 {\an1}so nobody could see us. (laughs) 748 00:41:19,033 --> 00:41:21,266 {\an1}I have this feeling it was a very small room, 749 00:41:21,300 --> 00:41:22,476 and half of us were sitting on the floor. 750 00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:24,966 {\an8}I wanted to know if this was something 751 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,733 {\an8}that was just a biology department problem, 752 00:41:27,766 --> 00:41:31,066 {\an1}or whether this was a bigger problem. 753 00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:34,233 CHISHOLM: At the beginning, nobody really wanted to jump right in 754 00:41:34,266 --> 00:41:38,533 {\an1}and go there, because you don't want to be perceived as, 755 00:41:38,566 --> 00:41:40,366 {\an1}you know, weaker than, 756 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,133 {\an1}but it all just came out in little trickles, 757 00:41:44,166 --> 00:41:46,266 {\an1}and, suddenly, you know, everybody was just 758 00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:47,766 {\an1}letting it all hang out. 759 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,733 CEYER: There were comments from my male colleagues like, 760 00:41:50,766 --> 00:41:55,033 {\an1}"Well, she really isn't as smart as she's given credit for." 761 00:41:55,066 --> 00:41:56,876 {\an1}No woman had ever taken family leave and gotten tenure. 762 00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:59,500 {\an7}Women were afraid to take it 763 00:41:59,533 --> 00:42:01,400 {\an7}because of the stigma attached to it. 764 00:42:01,433 --> 00:42:04,600 {\an7}A guy said that we are a bunch of hysterical women. 765 00:42:04,633 --> 00:42:06,033 {\an8}(laughs): Yeah. 766 00:42:06,066 --> 00:42:09,433 {\an1}At that time, the problem was, women were not listened to, 767 00:42:09,466 --> 00:42:11,066 {\an1}and this was going to be the place 768 00:42:11,100 --> 00:42:13,000 {\an1}where every woman's opinion counted. 769 00:42:13,033 --> 00:42:16,833 ♪ 770 00:42:20,266 --> 00:42:22,100 CHISHOLM: I just remember us all marching as a, 771 00:42:22,133 --> 00:42:24,933 {\an1}as a pack to the dean's office together. 772 00:42:27,666 --> 00:42:31,333 HOPKINS: And we felt intimidated, as if somehow, you know, 773 00:42:31,366 --> 00:42:34,900 {\an1}we didn't belong there. 774 00:42:34,933 --> 00:42:37,066 {\an1}We asked if we could have a committee 775 00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:38,633 {\an1}that could document the problem. 776 00:42:38,666 --> 00:42:43,366 CEYER: What we wanted to do was, we wanted to see the data. 777 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,066 HOPKINS: It was very scary, I mean, for me, it was... 778 00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:47,766 {\an1}The future of my life in science 779 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,566 {\an1}was on the balance there. 780 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,633 {\an1}And the dean came in, and he said, 781 00:42:52,666 --> 00:42:54,200 {\an1}"You can have the committee, 782 00:42:54,233 --> 00:42:56,166 {\an1}"but I don't think it can fix this problem, 783 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:57,376 {\an1}"because I don't know how to fix it. 784 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,900 {\an1}"I think the problem is the nature 785 00:42:58,933 --> 00:43:01,033 {\an1}of a very male-dominated culture." 786 00:43:01,066 --> 00:43:06,166 ♪ 787 00:43:17,433 --> 00:43:20,900 ADAM LEWIS: I went to Jane's house in Mandan, North Dakota. 788 00:43:20,933 --> 00:43:23,166 {\an7}It was her wedding. 789 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,133 {\an7}And so she'd, I hadn't... She'd been graduated 790 00:43:25,166 --> 00:43:26,600 {\an7}for a couple of years or whatever. 791 00:43:26,633 --> 00:43:29,733 {\an7}And I was in the house, and her brother was standing there, 792 00:43:29,766 --> 00:43:31,800 {\an1}and I was talking to her brother, 793 00:43:31,833 --> 00:43:33,409 {\an1}and I introduced myself, I say, "I'm Adam..." 794 00:43:33,433 --> 00:43:35,866 {\an1}And I said, "I went to Antarctica with them." 795 00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:37,500 {\an1}And he just stiffened. 796 00:43:37,533 --> 00:43:40,200 He went... 797 00:43:40,233 --> 00:43:43,800 {\an1}And just stiffened like a board, like... 798 00:43:43,833 --> 00:43:45,833 {\an1}And instantly, I thought, "God, something is..." 799 00:43:45,866 --> 00:43:48,433 {\an1}And he goes, "You were in Antarctica with her?" 800 00:43:48,466 --> 00:43:49,833 {\an1}And I was, like, "Yeah." 801 00:43:49,866 --> 00:43:52,533 {\an1}He said, "So you were there when all that took place." 802 00:43:52,566 --> 00:43:55,033 And I was, like, "What, what took place? 803 00:43:55,066 --> 00:43:56,166 {\an1}Like, what do you mean?" 804 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,733 {\an1}He said, "When Marchant treated her like (bleep) 805 00:43:58,766 --> 00:44:02,433 {\an7}and tried to just ruin her, you were there." 806 00:44:02,466 --> 00:44:06,000 {\an7}So, for the next few minutes, I had this realization. 807 00:44:06,033 --> 00:44:08,933 {\an7}At Jane's wedding in Mandan, North Dakota, 808 00:44:08,966 --> 00:44:10,333 {\an1}after talking to her brother, 809 00:44:10,366 --> 00:44:11,842 {\an1}I was kind of standing there by myself with, like, 810 00:44:11,866 --> 00:44:14,266 {\an1}a drink in my hand, going, like, "Holy (bleep), 811 00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:17,466 {\an1}that must have been really bad for Jane." 812 00:44:20,133 --> 00:44:23,300 {\an1}My name is Adam Lewis. 813 00:44:23,333 --> 00:44:24,966 And I met Jane 814 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,166 {\an1}when I became a graduate student. 815 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,333 {\an1}So we went to Antarctica together. 816 00:44:30,366 --> 00:44:31,776 {\an1}And I was just in my office one day, just working, 817 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,233 {\an1}and an email pops up. 818 00:44:33,266 --> 00:44:38,066 {\an1}Jane says, "Hey, I've decided it's time to, to come out 819 00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:39,966 {\an1}"and file this report about 820 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,666 {\an1}how Dave's treatment of women has been." 821 00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:43,600 {\an1}And you know, she's, like, "I know he's done it 822 00:44:43,633 --> 00:44:46,333 {\an1}to other women, and I just think it, it needs to be dealt with." 823 00:44:48,266 --> 00:44:51,166 {\an1}She said, "You might need to write down 824 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,200 {\an1}what your experience is, what you remember." 825 00:44:54,233 --> 00:44:55,633 {\an1}So I don't have a choice. 826 00:44:55,666 --> 00:44:58,233 {\an1}My only choice is to just sit down and tell the truth. 827 00:44:58,266 --> 00:45:00,166 {\an1}That's my only choice. 828 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,500 {\an1}I view Jane as a colleague and a friend. 829 00:45:02,533 --> 00:45:06,733 {\an1}And so why wouldn't I support her? 830 00:45:13,233 --> 00:45:17,000 {\an8}SANGEETA BHATIA: It feels like a really special moment in time. 831 00:45:17,033 --> 00:45:19,400 {\an8}♪ 832 00:45:21,866 --> 00:45:24,133 {\an7}We're making inroads, 833 00:45:24,166 --> 00:45:27,866 {\an7}but it's just too darn slow. 834 00:45:28,933 --> 00:45:30,833 {\an1}So, when I was a freshman in college, 835 00:45:30,866 --> 00:45:33,066 my best friend, who was also an engineer. 836 00:45:33,100 --> 00:45:35,076 {\an7}And we were sort of, like, together through the experience, 837 00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:36,666 {\an7}which I think was really important 838 00:45:36,700 --> 00:45:41,000 {\an7}for, for both of our retention in the profession. 839 00:45:41,033 --> 00:45:42,833 {\an1}We looked around, and we noticed 840 00:45:42,866 --> 00:45:46,100 {\an1}that the classroom was about half women. 841 00:45:46,133 --> 00:45:48,866 And, you know, I remember very clearly that 842 00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:51,966 {\an1}we had a conversation about, "What is all the fuss about?" 843 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,233 {\an1}Like, "There's plenty of women in this classroom. 844 00:45:54,266 --> 00:45:56,433 {\an1}Maybe it's just a matter of time." 845 00:45:56,466 --> 00:45:58,000 {\an1}And this is something I still hear, 846 00:45:58,033 --> 00:45:59,833 {\an1}"Oh, it's just a matter of time." 847 00:45:59,866 --> 00:46:03,333 {\an1}And we looked around again senior year, 848 00:46:03,366 --> 00:46:08,866 {\an7}and there was, out of 100 students, seven of us left. 849 00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:10,433 {\an7}And we sort of realized, like, 850 00:46:10,466 --> 00:46:14,900 {\an7}"Oh, this is the leaky pipeline." 851 00:46:14,933 --> 00:46:17,700 {\an1}"This is disproportionate attrition." 852 00:46:17,733 --> 00:46:20,533 ♪ 853 00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:35,966 {\an8}JOHNSON: In STEM, we have spent a lot of resources and time 854 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,166 {\an7}to get young girls focused on STEM. 855 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:44,866 {\an7}So we know that we've been filling the pipeline. 856 00:46:44,900 --> 00:46:47,966 {\an7}The problem is that sexual harassment 857 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,100 {\an1}actually creates many leaks in that pipeline. 858 00:46:52,133 --> 00:46:54,300 {\an1}So we're doing a lot of work, 859 00:46:54,333 --> 00:46:57,233 {\an1}but some of that work is actually being undone. 860 00:47:00,433 --> 00:47:02,176 {\an8}BHATIA: Why do you move away from a profession 861 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,600 {\an7}and choose a different one, you know? 862 00:47:04,633 --> 00:47:06,666 {\an1}That's sort of a collection of personal choices, 863 00:47:06,700 --> 00:47:08,366 {\an1}but part of it is the culture. 864 00:47:11,466 --> 00:47:13,633 {\an7}There's a whole body of social science 865 00:47:13,666 --> 00:47:17,566 {\an1}that has emerged where this is actually no longer a mystery. 866 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:22,833 ♪ 867 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,642 {\an1}CORINNE MOSS-RACUSIN: I assumed that the study that we ultimately did 868 00:47:28,666 --> 00:47:30,576 {\an7}or something similar would already have been done. 869 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,300 {\an7}I was just interested to see, 870 00:47:32,333 --> 00:47:35,400 {\an8}what is the experimental evidence 871 00:47:35,433 --> 00:47:36,809 {\an1}of whether or not there's gender bias 872 00:47:36,833 --> 00:47:39,233 {\an1}amongst the scientific community? 873 00:47:39,266 --> 00:47:40,476 {\an1}And I was surprised to see that 874 00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:42,200 {\an1}that study had not yet been conducted. 875 00:47:42,233 --> 00:47:46,800 {\an1}So that's really what we immediately dug in to pursue. 876 00:47:46,833 --> 00:47:49,133 {\an1}The methodology of the study is really simple. 877 00:47:49,166 --> 00:47:50,600 {\an1}We describe a student who's applying 878 00:47:50,633 --> 00:47:52,866 {\an1}to be a lab manager, in this case. 879 00:47:52,900 --> 00:47:56,400 {\an1}But the qualifications, the thing that participants read... 880 00:47:56,433 --> 00:48:00,933 {\an1}you know, their application... Is identical. 881 00:48:00,966 --> 00:48:03,333 {\an1}Except half of our participants are told 882 00:48:03,366 --> 00:48:05,733 {\an1}that the student is a woman, Jennifer, 883 00:48:05,766 --> 00:48:08,733 {\an1}and half are told that the student is a man, John. 884 00:48:08,766 --> 00:48:12,966 {\an1}So any differences at all in our conditions 885 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,466 {\an1}or how the participants react to these two students 886 00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:18,433 {\an1}is attributable solely to the student's gender. 887 00:48:18,466 --> 00:48:22,733 ♪ 888 00:48:22,766 --> 00:48:25,233 {\an1}We worked hard to recruit a representative sample 889 00:48:25,266 --> 00:48:27,366 of STEM faculty from around the country, 890 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:32,566 {\an1}and we sent half of them the application from Jennifer 891 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:37,333 {\an1}and half the application from John. 892 00:48:37,366 --> 00:48:39,100 {\an1}We told them that this was a student 893 00:48:39,133 --> 00:48:40,642 {\an1}who had actually applied to be a lab manager 894 00:48:40,666 --> 00:48:45,233 {\an1}somewhere in the country over the course of the last year, 895 00:48:45,266 --> 00:48:47,266 and that, for this new mentoring program, 896 00:48:47,300 --> 00:48:49,109 {\an1}we needed their candid assessments of the student. 897 00:48:49,133 --> 00:48:52,966 (mouse clicking) 898 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,233 {\an1}I remember the day I was sitting at my computer 899 00:48:56,266 --> 00:48:58,266 {\an1}doing the first pass of data analysis for this, 900 00:48:58,300 --> 00:49:02,000 {\an1}and I thought I had something miscoded, 901 00:49:02,033 --> 00:49:03,300 {\an1}because I just didn't expect 902 00:49:03,333 --> 00:49:07,333 {\an1}to see the same picture over and over again. 903 00:49:07,366 --> 00:49:08,566 {\an1}The female student 904 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,066 {\an1}is rated as inferior to the male student 905 00:49:11,100 --> 00:49:12,900 {\an1}on every dimension that we assessed. 906 00:49:16,033 --> 00:49:19,633 {\an7}She's rated as less competent. 907 00:49:19,666 --> 00:49:24,066 {\an7}She's less likely to be hired for a lab manager job, 908 00:49:24,100 --> 00:49:27,633 {\an7}less likely to be mentored by a faculty member, 909 00:49:27,666 --> 00:49:30,100 {\an7}and given a lower starting salary 910 00:49:30,133 --> 00:49:33,200 {\an7}than the identical male student. 911 00:49:33,233 --> 00:49:35,766 {\an1}The only difference between them is their gender. 912 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,166 {\an1}And so we're really quantifying gender bias. 913 00:49:43,666 --> 00:49:47,066 {\an1}Not every woman contends with this identically. 914 00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:48,400 {\an1}Women of color are targeted 915 00:49:48,433 --> 00:49:51,533 {\an1}in ways that are more complex, more insidious, 916 00:49:51,566 --> 00:49:52,633 {\an1}and just more common. 917 00:49:52,666 --> 00:49:54,800 (door opening) 918 00:49:54,833 --> 00:49:59,233 It's not always who you might think 919 00:49:59,266 --> 00:50:01,466 {\an1}is going to be demonstrating these biases. 920 00:50:03,766 --> 00:50:06,333 {\an1}Bias comes from normal 921 00:50:06,366 --> 00:50:08,700 {\an1}cognitive processing mechanisms. 922 00:50:08,733 --> 00:50:12,000 {\an1}And what that means is that really well-intentioned folks 923 00:50:12,033 --> 00:50:15,266 {\an1}tend to display these sorts of very pervasive biases. 924 00:50:17,033 --> 00:50:19,933 {\an1}It's not sort of an evil cartoon of someone 925 00:50:19,966 --> 00:50:21,600 {\an1}who's delighting in thwarting 926 00:50:21,633 --> 00:50:25,433 {\an1}the progress of, of smart women... it's all of us. 927 00:50:28,866 --> 00:50:31,300 {\an8}MAHZARIN BANAJI: Consciously, I could say I have 928 00:50:31,333 --> 00:50:33,200 {\an8}zero bias. 929 00:50:33,233 --> 00:50:36,400 {\an7}To me, men and women who perform the same are equal. 930 00:50:36,433 --> 00:50:40,966 {\an1}But I think we're in those very early moments in the science 931 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,266 {\an1}where we're able to actually get snapshots 932 00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:45,900 {\an1}of what's inside our mind 933 00:50:45,933 --> 00:50:47,500 {\an1}of which we don't know. 934 00:50:47,533 --> 00:50:50,233 BANAJI: So what we're going to do today is, 935 00:50:50,266 --> 00:50:53,500 you are participants in a couple of little exercises. 936 00:50:53,533 --> 00:50:56,533 {\an1}I hope you find this as 937 00:50:56,566 --> 00:50:59,833 {\an1}intriguing as I did when I first took this test. 938 00:50:59,866 --> 00:51:02,200 {\an1}This test is called the I.A.T., 939 00:51:02,233 --> 00:51:03,733 or the Implicit Association Test. 940 00:51:03,766 --> 00:51:06,366 BANAJI: The I.A.T. has a very simple 941 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,566 {\an1}idea that underlies it. 942 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,800 {\an1}The idea is that if two things have something in common, 943 00:51:12,833 --> 00:51:15,733 {\an1}we'll be more easily able to put them together. 944 00:51:15,766 --> 00:51:17,933 {\an1}And sometimes this just happens in our experience. 945 00:51:17,966 --> 00:51:20,133 {\an7}Salt and pepper go together. 946 00:51:20,166 --> 00:51:22,242 {\an7}They're opposites in one sense, but they go together, 947 00:51:22,266 --> 00:51:23,900 {\an7}because we combine them. 948 00:51:23,933 --> 00:51:26,233 {\an7}The word "king" and "queen" go together. 949 00:51:26,266 --> 00:51:28,900 {\an7}This is not a hard idea to imagine. 950 00:51:28,933 --> 00:51:32,500 {\an7}And so we use this idea to argue that if two things 951 00:51:32,533 --> 00:51:35,100 {\an7}have come to be associated over and over again 952 00:51:35,133 --> 00:51:37,800 {\an7}in our experience, whether we know it or not, 953 00:51:37,833 --> 00:51:40,966 {\an7}we will be faster to put them together. 954 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,833 {\an1}Nobody has any trouble understanding why this might be. 955 00:51:44,866 --> 00:51:48,333 (laughs): It's a no-brainer, as a neuroscientist might say, okay. 956 00:51:48,366 --> 00:51:50,933 {\an1}So imagine that in the test, 957 00:51:50,966 --> 00:51:52,633 {\an1}you're asked to do something very simple. 958 00:51:52,666 --> 00:51:54,976 {\an1}BANAJI: A word is going to pop up in the middle of the screen. 959 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,366 {\an1}You're going to see names of men and women. 960 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,366 {\an1}You're also gonna see words that are 961 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,433 {\an1}in two categories, family and career, 962 00:52:03,466 --> 00:52:05,533 {\an1}and the career part that I've chosen, 963 00:52:05,566 --> 00:52:07,466 {\an1}think scientific career. 964 00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:11,100 {\an1}Words for career are words like "scientist," "laboratory," 965 00:52:11,133 --> 00:52:12,366 {\an1}"biologist." 966 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,166 {\an1}Words for home are going to be words like 967 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,900 {\an1}"marriage," "kitchen," "children." 968 00:52:16,933 --> 00:52:20,900 {\an1}All you have to do is put the two together, right? 969 00:52:20,933 --> 00:52:25,133 {\an1}So, if the name is a male name or the word is a career word, 970 00:52:25,166 --> 00:52:26,766 you will say, "Left." 971 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,600 {\an1}And if it's a female name or a home word, 972 00:52:28,633 --> 00:52:30,200 {\an1}you will say, "Right." 973 00:52:30,233 --> 00:52:31,500 {\an1}Okay, you got it? 974 00:52:31,533 --> 00:52:32,633 {\an1}Keep that in your mind. 975 00:52:32,666 --> 00:52:36,200 {\an1}Oh, and you have to go super-fast to do this. 976 00:52:36,233 --> 00:52:37,966 {\an1}By super-fast, I mean, like, 977 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,033 {\an1}700 milliseconds, 978 00:52:40,066 --> 00:52:43,100 {\an1}meaning faster than a second to make each response. 979 00:52:43,133 --> 00:52:45,833 {\an1}Okay, so, simple, ready... 980 00:52:45,866 --> 00:52:47,333 {\an3}Go. 981 00:52:47,366 --> 00:52:50,433 STUDENTS: Left, left, right, right, left, 982 00:52:50,466 --> 00:52:52,833 {\an1}left, left, right, right, 983 00:52:52,866 --> 00:52:54,900 {\an1}right, right, right, 984 00:52:54,933 --> 00:52:57,333 {\an1}left, left, right... 985 00:52:57,366 --> 00:52:59,300 {\an1}(students stumbling and slowing) 986 00:52:59,333 --> 00:53:02,566 {\an1}Left, left, left, right, right. 987 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:03,700 BANAJI: Excellent. 988 00:53:03,733 --> 00:53:05,500 BANAJI: The trouble arises... 989 00:53:05,533 --> 00:53:09,866 {\an1}this is what makes it a test... That we now flip these. 990 00:53:09,900 --> 00:53:11,800 {\an1}And now we'll do the other version. 991 00:53:11,833 --> 00:53:15,000 If it's a female name or a career word, like "scientist" 992 00:53:15,033 --> 00:53:16,000 {\an1}or that, you'll say, "Left." 993 00:53:16,033 --> 00:53:17,733 {\an1}If it's a male name or a house word, 994 00:53:17,766 --> 00:53:19,766 {\an1}you will say, "Right," okay? 995 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,933 {\an1}Everybody ready to go? Go. 996 00:53:21,966 --> 00:53:27,700 {\an1}STUDENTS (hesitantly): Left, left, right, left... 997 00:53:27,733 --> 00:53:31,966 {\an1}(students disagreeing and hesitating) 998 00:53:35,266 --> 00:53:38,400 {\an1}(continue hesitantly) 999 00:53:38,433 --> 00:53:41,300 (slowly): Right, left, right... 1000 00:53:41,333 --> 00:53:45,533 {\an1}(disagreeing and chuckling) 1001 00:53:49,033 --> 00:53:50,966 (responses stop, students exclaiming softly) 1002 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,600 {\an1}BANAJI: Okay. 1003 00:53:53,633 --> 00:53:55,000 {\an1}So, as a colleague of ours said, 1004 00:53:55,033 --> 00:53:57,866 {\an1}you don't need a computer to measure this bias. 1005 00:53:57,900 --> 00:54:00,766 {\an1}A sundial will do. 1006 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,066 (laughter) 1007 00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:03,100 {\an1}And that's because 1008 00:54:03,133 --> 00:54:05,400 {\an1}the effect is palpable. 1009 00:54:05,433 --> 00:54:08,100 {\an1}Now, if you were one of the first people in the world 1010 00:54:08,133 --> 00:54:10,966 {\an1}to ever take this test and you made the test, 1011 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,742 {\an1}your first reaction when you take this test should be, 1012 00:54:12,766 --> 00:54:16,466 {\an1}"Something's screwed up with the test." 1013 00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:18,000 {\an1}At least that was my view. 1014 00:54:18,033 --> 00:54:20,433 BANAJI: I thought I could do this. 1015 00:54:20,466 --> 00:54:24,733 {\an1}So I take the test, and it turns out I can't do it. 1016 00:54:24,766 --> 00:54:28,066 {\an1}When I say, "I can't do it," I mean that I can, 1017 00:54:28,100 --> 00:54:30,400 {\an1}but with a lot more time 1018 00:54:30,433 --> 00:54:33,433 {\an1}and more errors in what I'm doing. 1019 00:54:33,466 --> 00:54:35,300 {\an1}And the feeling you get as you take this test 1020 00:54:35,333 --> 00:54:39,233 {\an1}is one of utter despair. (laughs) 1021 00:54:39,266 --> 00:54:42,800 {\an1}I ought to be able to associate female and male 1022 00:54:42,833 --> 00:54:44,166 {\an1}equally with science. 1023 00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,666 I am, after all, a woman in science. 1024 00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:49,700 {\an1}This should not be so hard for me to do. 1025 00:54:49,733 --> 00:54:54,233 {\an1}To discover that I cannot do that, 1026 00:54:54,266 --> 00:54:56,100 {\an1}I think, is profound. 1027 00:54:56,133 --> 00:55:01,100 ♪ 1028 00:55:01,133 --> 00:55:03,733 HOPKINS: Recently somebody had showed me an email they'd received 1029 00:55:03,766 --> 00:55:05,333 {\an1}from a very distinguished scientist 1030 00:55:05,366 --> 00:55:07,066 {\an7}who happens to be a colleague of mine... 1031 00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:09,133 {\an7}so I was particularly upset by it... saying that 1032 00:55:09,166 --> 00:55:11,800 {\an7}he had looked very carefully and had seen no bias 1033 00:55:11,833 --> 00:55:14,233 {\an7}or prejudice against women during his entire career, 1034 00:55:14,266 --> 00:55:15,442 {\an1}and therefore he was confident 1035 00:55:15,466 --> 00:55:17,800 {\an1}that such a thing did not exist. 1036 00:55:17,833 --> 00:55:22,100 {\an1}And I guess, you know, at this point in time, 2019... 1037 00:55:22,133 --> 00:55:24,066 {\an1}this email was a few months ago... 1038 00:55:24,100 --> 00:55:26,000 {\an1}I just was shocked by this. 1039 00:55:26,033 --> 00:55:27,433 {\an1}These are great scientists. 1040 00:55:27,466 --> 00:55:29,133 {\an1}How can they not know this? 1041 00:55:29,166 --> 00:55:30,433 {\an1}How can they not believe this? 1042 00:55:30,466 --> 00:55:31,942 {\an1}If they know it, don't they believe it? 1043 00:55:31,966 --> 00:55:33,066 {\an1}This worries me a lot. 1044 00:55:33,100 --> 00:55:37,266 So when I hear stories like the one you tell, 1045 00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:39,700 {\an1}that your male colleague believes that 1046 00:55:39,733 --> 00:55:43,033 {\an1}he's never seen it, I have two kinds of responses to it. 1047 00:55:43,066 --> 00:55:45,466 {\an1}One, I understand that he may be 1048 00:55:45,500 --> 00:55:48,566 truly unaware and genuinely believing 1049 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,466 that he's looking for it and just not seeing it. 1050 00:55:51,500 --> 00:55:54,666 {\an1}It's in the nature of this beast that we're trying to identify. 1051 00:55:54,700 --> 00:55:57,266 It's invisible. 1052 00:55:57,300 --> 00:55:58,566 {\an1}But then I also feel 1053 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,300 that he has no business saying what he did, 1054 00:56:01,333 --> 00:56:03,900 {\an1}because today, the evidence 1055 00:56:03,933 --> 00:56:07,200 {\an1}is so much more clear that he need not rely on his own 1056 00:56:07,233 --> 00:56:08,533 {\an1}personal experience. 1057 00:56:08,566 --> 00:56:10,533 {\an1}He just needs to look at the data. 1058 00:56:10,566 --> 00:56:13,000 {\an1}That's what he'd want us to do for his science. 1059 00:56:13,033 --> 00:56:14,476 He'd say, "Mahzarin, whatever you may think 1060 00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:18,700 {\an1}"about turbulence or whatever, that doesn't matter. 1061 00:56:18,733 --> 00:56:21,500 "That's your... intuitive experience 1062 00:56:21,533 --> 00:56:22,800 {\an1}"of the physical world. 1063 00:56:22,833 --> 00:56:25,366 {\an1}But you need to know the research." 1064 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:26,966 {\an1}And I would say the same to him, 1065 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,000 because the time has passed now for saying, 1066 00:56:30,033 --> 00:56:31,933 {\an1}"I don't see it anywhere." 1067 00:56:31,966 --> 00:56:35,300 {\an1}And that's why we should be concerned that anybody 1068 00:56:35,333 --> 00:56:40,133 {\an1}who says it's not happening, or not happening anymore, 1069 00:56:40,166 --> 00:56:42,400 is just made 1070 00:56:42,433 --> 00:56:44,900 to retract those words, 'cause they can say, 1071 00:56:44,933 --> 00:56:47,566 {\an1}"I, I'm not going to change my behavior, 1072 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,033 I don't care about it," all of that. 1073 00:56:49,066 --> 00:56:50,366 That's their... 1074 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,666 But they cannot say that the evidence doesn't exist. 1075 00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:58,266 ♪ 1076 00:56:58,300 --> 00:56:59,966 BANAJI: My field, broadly speaking, 1077 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,500 {\an1}is discovering that human beings may not be the people 1078 00:57:03,533 --> 00:57:05,033 {\an1}they think they are. 1079 00:57:05,066 --> 00:57:09,666 {\an1}That they are far more fallible than they may have thought. 1080 00:57:09,700 --> 00:57:12,433 Who's competent? 1081 00:57:12,466 --> 00:57:14,166 {\an1}Who has potential? 1082 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:15,900 Who's brilliant? 1083 00:57:15,933 --> 00:57:17,366 {\an1}We find very clear evidence 1084 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,900 {\an1}that men are preferred to women for the same accomplishments. 1085 00:57:21,933 --> 00:57:25,366 ♪ 1086 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,866 {\an1}Implicit bias is something that we all carry in our heads. 1087 00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:29,900 {\an1}How could we not? 1088 00:57:29,933 --> 00:57:32,100 We are creatures of our environment. 1089 00:57:32,133 --> 00:57:35,033 {\an1}We are creatures who learn. 1090 00:57:35,066 --> 00:57:41,100 ♪ 1091 00:57:41,133 --> 00:57:43,900 {\an1}When I see a certain set of patterns, 1092 00:57:43,933 --> 00:57:47,766 {\an1}that impinges on me in some way, and it leaves a trace. 1093 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,566 {\an1}Bill Nye the Science Guy. 1094 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,633 {\an1}Okay, now let's let that cook there for a while 1095 00:57:52,666 --> 00:57:54,300 {\an1}and make some more hydrogen... 1096 00:57:54,333 --> 00:57:58,333 BANAJI: And that trace is now a part of me. 1097 00:57:58,366 --> 00:58:00,433 {\an1}This is where the power of technology 1098 00:58:00,466 --> 00:58:03,533 {\an1}actually can be used to advantage to, in a sense, 1099 00:58:03,566 --> 00:58:07,000 {\an1}program our minds to be what we want them to have in them. 1100 00:58:13,766 --> 00:58:16,933 (bird squawking) 1101 00:58:16,966 --> 00:58:20,133 BURKS: Before junior high, I would've been really hard-pressed 1102 00:58:20,166 --> 00:58:22,566 {\an1}to name a woman scientist. 1103 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,433 {\an1}I would have been extremely hard-pressed to name 1104 00:58:25,466 --> 00:58:28,333 {\an7}a woman scientist of color. 1105 00:58:28,366 --> 00:58:29,566 {\an7}'Cause I didn't see any. 1106 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,066 {\an1}And science is a way to view the world. 1107 00:58:32,100 --> 00:58:34,266 {\an1}It's also everywhere. 1108 00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:36,200 {\an1}You can find it anywhere. 1109 00:58:36,233 --> 00:58:39,633 {\an1}Yes, even in "Game of Thrones." 1110 00:58:39,666 --> 00:58:41,776 BURKS: Beyond the bench, I'm also a science communicator. 1111 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,933 {\an7}Video games can be complicated, but they're not rocket science. 1112 00:58:45,966 --> 00:58:48,966 BURKS: I'll be on podcasts, in different videos, 1113 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,733 {\an1}and sometimes I get to be on television. 1114 00:58:50,766 --> 00:58:52,500 {\an7}DIRECTOR: Roll cameras A, B, and C. 1115 00:58:52,533 --> 00:58:53,533 {\an7}Tape one, take one. 1116 00:58:53,566 --> 00:58:57,033 BURKS: Representation always matters. 1117 00:58:57,066 --> 00:58:59,033 You know, there's the whole saying of, 1118 00:58:59,066 --> 00:59:01,166 {\an1}"If you see it, you can be it," right? 1119 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,209 {\an1}It's getting better, but there used to be a time, right, 1120 00:59:03,233 --> 00:59:05,300 {\an1}when you would say, "Okay, 1121 00:59:05,333 --> 00:59:06,700 {\an1}what does a scientist look like?" 1122 00:59:06,733 --> 00:59:08,309 {\an1}And it was, like, you know, white guy with crazy hair, 1123 00:59:08,333 --> 00:59:09,933 {\an1}you know, whatever. 1124 00:59:09,966 --> 00:59:12,042 {\an1}And now it's, like, "No, it's a Black woman with crazy hair." 1125 00:59:12,066 --> 00:59:14,366 {\an1}You can only report your sample, then, in a significant... 1126 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:15,566 BURKS: By its very nature, 1127 00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,100 {\an1}science itself should always be evolving. 1128 00:59:19,133 --> 00:59:21,309 {\an1}Who is asking the questions, and how they're asking them, 1129 00:59:21,333 --> 00:59:22,300 {\an1}and who gets supported 1130 00:59:22,333 --> 00:59:25,366 {\an1}does determine the field. 1131 00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,866 {\an1}The diversity of people in science 1132 00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:31,833 {\an1}can really set the outcomes. 1133 00:59:31,866 --> 00:59:33,933 {\an1}So that's actually emboldened me 1134 00:59:33,966 --> 00:59:36,466 {\an1}to just be more authentically myself. 1135 00:59:36,500 --> 00:59:38,266 {\an5}I did it! BURKS: Yes! 1136 00:59:38,300 --> 00:59:40,400 {\an1}It took me a while, 'cause Ralph kept distracting me, 1137 00:59:40,433 --> 00:59:43,466 {\an1}and then Joseph did, and so I'm going to blame them and not me. 1138 00:59:43,500 --> 00:59:44,966 {\an1}Okay. (laughing) 1139 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,833 {\an1}So, yeah, this is what I have right now. 1140 00:59:46,866 --> 00:59:47,976 I have it all prepped and ready... 1141 00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,466 BURKS: I might as well have 1142 00:59:49,500 --> 00:59:55,166 {\an1}more fun, wear silly clothing, and talk about zombie chemistry 1143 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,366 {\an1}and wear my hair the way I want. 1144 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,333 {\an1}Not trying to chase this mythology 1145 01:00:01,366 --> 01:00:04,433 {\an1}of what a scientist is. 1146 01:00:04,466 --> 01:00:09,600 ♪ 1147 01:00:13,633 --> 01:00:17,666 {\an1}(wind howling, birds twittering) 1148 01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:20,866 {\an8}♪ 1149 01:00:20,900 --> 01:00:23,700 {\an1}(knocking on door) 1150 01:00:23,733 --> 01:00:25,066 (door opens) 1151 01:00:25,100 --> 01:00:26,242 {\an5}WILLENBRING: Hello! LEWIS: Jane! 1152 01:00:26,266 --> 01:00:27,566 {\an1}Hey, Sylvie. 1153 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:28,666 Hi! 1154 01:00:28,700 --> 01:00:30,100 {\an1}Good to see you. 1155 01:00:30,133 --> 01:00:31,333 {\an1}Oh, it's been a long time. 1156 01:00:31,366 --> 01:00:33,200 What a great house, oh, my gosh. 1157 01:00:33,233 --> 01:00:34,909 {\an1}Oh, yeah, well, it's going to be great someday. 1158 01:00:34,933 --> 01:00:37,833 LEWIS: Do you remember walking back that time, when you and I 1159 01:00:37,866 --> 01:00:40,266 {\an1}and Brett were out there, walking back into the wind? 1160 01:00:40,300 --> 01:00:41,233 {\an7}(chuckling): Yes. 1161 01:00:41,266 --> 01:00:42,433 {\an8}My nose froze, right? 1162 01:00:42,466 --> 01:00:46,933 {\an7}Yeah, and I got frostbite on my tuchus. Yeah. 1163 01:00:46,966 --> 01:00:47,966 {\an7}Going to the bathroom. 1164 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,100 {\an7}That's the worst. Oh, God. 1165 01:00:49,133 --> 01:00:50,100 {\an7}I'd still be going there. 1166 01:00:50,133 --> 01:00:51,509 {\an8}I would still be a college professor, 1167 01:00:51,533 --> 01:00:53,009 {\an7}and I'd still be going there if I didn't have to go 1168 01:00:53,033 --> 01:00:53,900 {\an8}to the bathroom. 1169 01:00:53,933 --> 01:00:55,333 {\an8}In Antarctica. (laughing) 1170 01:00:55,366 --> 01:00:56,733 {\an1}Yeah. 1171 01:00:56,766 --> 01:00:58,400 {\an1}You know, when I was writing my 1172 01:00:58,433 --> 01:01:03,200 {\an1}Title IX complaint, it was incredibly cathartic. 1173 01:01:03,233 --> 01:01:05,166 {\an3}Mm. I just, like, wrote it, 1174 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:06,666 {\an1}and then just started bawling. 1175 01:01:06,700 --> 01:01:09,966 {\an1}When you're writing them all out, one after another... 1176 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:11,300 Yeah. You know. 1177 01:01:11,333 --> 01:01:12,609 {\an1}It's, like, yeah, that happened, 1178 01:01:12,633 --> 01:01:14,276 {\an1}and then that happened, and then that happened. 1179 01:01:14,300 --> 01:01:16,866 {\an1}And you start thinking, like, "How did this even..." 1180 01:01:16,900 --> 01:01:18,966 And it's, like, "Well, they were different days, 1181 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:23,400 {\an1}and, you know, I had thought it would get better." 1182 01:01:23,433 --> 01:01:26,200 {\an5}Yeah. And you know, you have, like, this whole mindset of, 1183 01:01:26,233 --> 01:01:28,500 {\an1}like, hoping for the best, even though you really think 1184 01:01:28,533 --> 01:01:30,600 {\an4}that it's probably not going to go well. Mm-hmm. 1185 01:01:30,633 --> 01:01:32,733 {\an1}I never knew how much it bothered you. 1186 01:01:32,766 --> 01:01:34,166 I didn't know. 1187 01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:38,166 {\an1}You didn't show it to me, so I didn't know. 1188 01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,266 {\an1}I mean, I knew he was being a complete dick to you, 1189 01:01:40,300 --> 01:01:41,909 {\an1}but I didn't know that it was getting to you. 1190 01:01:41,933 --> 01:01:42,900 {\an1}Yeah. 1191 01:01:42,933 --> 01:01:44,366 {\an1}It was hard to navigate. 1192 01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:45,476 Like, I knew, I mean, it's... 1193 01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:46,733 {\an1}Obviously, it was an issue. 1194 01:01:46,766 --> 01:01:48,733 {\an1}But it just was, like, "Okay, well, Jane's 1195 01:01:48,766 --> 01:01:51,900 {\an1}kind of dealing with it," and whatever. 1196 01:01:51,933 --> 01:01:55,600 {\an1}I do sort of have a tough cookie sort of bravado about me. 1197 01:01:55,633 --> 01:01:57,966 I mean, I should have seen it more. 1198 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,300 {\an8}I feel a major regret, 'cause I didn't help. 1199 01:02:01,333 --> 01:02:03,500 {\an8}When I wrote that out, I was, like, 1200 01:02:03,533 --> 01:02:04,609 {\an8}"God, the pattern is so clear!" 1201 01:02:04,633 --> 01:02:06,033 {\an8}Some of the things that you tell me 1202 01:02:06,066 --> 01:02:07,506 {\an8}and that I've heard from other women, 1203 01:02:07,533 --> 01:02:08,900 {\an7}I just... it's unfathomable. 1204 01:02:08,933 --> 01:02:09,900 {\an8}I didn't know. 1205 01:02:09,933 --> 01:02:11,466 {\an8}And most of the men that I know, 1206 01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:12,433 {\an7}all these guys that I went 1207 01:02:12,466 --> 01:02:13,866 {\an8}to Antarctica with and all my 1208 01:02:13,900 --> 01:02:15,566 {\an8}professor friends, whatever... Mm-hmm. 1209 01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,100 {\an8}We... they would not do that, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 1210 01:02:19,133 --> 01:02:20,800 {\an8}So, when you hear these stories, 1211 01:02:20,833 --> 01:02:22,366 {\an7}you're just, like, "What?" 1212 01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:23,633 {\an8}Right. 1213 01:02:23,666 --> 01:02:24,933 {\an8}I'll tell you a story. 1214 01:02:24,966 --> 01:02:25,933 {\an8}I think I've told you this before. 1215 01:02:25,966 --> 01:02:27,233 {\an8}So, I was in Europe 1216 01:02:27,266 --> 01:02:28,933 {\an8}and I was at this 1217 01:02:28,966 --> 01:02:31,500 {\an4}glacial conference thing, this EU-run thing. Yeah. 1218 01:02:31,533 --> 01:02:33,500 With a whole bunch of students, 1219 01:02:33,533 --> 01:02:35,366 and there was this old glaciologist there. 1220 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:36,609 {\an1}He's, like, about 60 years old. 1221 01:02:36,633 --> 01:02:38,533 Anyway, we were all out 1222 01:02:38,566 --> 01:02:41,366 at the... in Italy, and we're all out at the bar. 1223 01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,366 {\an1}He takes his hotel room key, 1224 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,900 and he starts just going down the line. 1225 01:02:45,933 --> 01:02:47,609 {\an1}And you couldn't really hear what he was saying, 1226 01:02:47,633 --> 01:02:49,476 but he would go up to a female student and be, like... 1227 01:02:49,500 --> 01:02:51,333 (imitating indistinct conversation) 1228 01:02:51,366 --> 01:02:53,233 And then he would put the key on the table, 1229 01:02:53,266 --> 01:02:56,066 {\an1}and they would all be, like, "Yeah, yeah." 1230 01:02:56,100 --> 01:02:58,666 {\an4}And they'd just flick the key right back to him. Mm-hmm. 1231 01:02:58,700 --> 01:03:00,166 A couple of minutes later, 1232 01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,342 {\an1}he would sit down at the next table with a, with a girl, 1233 01:03:02,366 --> 01:03:05,066 {\an1}and he'd be, like, "Yeah, so how are you doing?" 1234 01:03:05,100 --> 01:03:06,566 {\an1}Key goes out on the table, 1235 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,400 and every time, the girl just was, like... 1236 01:03:08,433 --> 01:03:09,833 (scoffing): "Yeah." 1237 01:03:09,866 --> 01:03:11,209 (chuckling): Slaps it right back at him. 1238 01:03:11,233 --> 01:03:12,533 But it didn't deter him at all, 1239 01:03:12,566 --> 01:03:14,400 and he just went to the next one, right? 1240 01:03:14,433 --> 01:03:15,533 {\an1}Mm-hmm. 1241 01:03:15,566 --> 01:03:18,400 And he's obviously, like, lecherous 1242 01:03:18,433 --> 01:03:20,266 {\an1}and all that kind of stuff. 1243 01:03:20,300 --> 01:03:23,166 {\an1}But I always, I was always impressed with those women, 1244 01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,833 that they didn't seem to take any... 1245 01:03:26,866 --> 01:03:28,733 They didn't take it in on themselves. 1246 01:03:28,766 --> 01:03:29,766 They were just, like, 1247 01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,300 "Yeah, no, no, thanks." 1248 01:03:31,333 --> 01:03:32,533 {\an1}Right, but it's also, like, 1249 01:03:32,566 --> 01:03:37,200 {\an1}bad to, like, sort of be proud of them for, 1250 01:03:37,233 --> 01:03:40,633 {\an1}like, just laughing it off and not making a big scene 1251 01:03:40,666 --> 01:03:43,933 {\an1}about it, because, really, 1252 01:03:43,966 --> 01:03:46,933 {\an4}someone should do that. Do you think they should have? 1253 01:03:46,966 --> 01:03:49,866 But what we have is a selection bias of, 1254 01:03:49,900 --> 01:03:52,433 {\an1}all of the people who make a big scene like that 1255 01:03:52,466 --> 01:03:55,100 {\an1}are kicked out of science. 1256 01:03:55,133 --> 01:03:56,676 {\an1}And so it's only the people who, like... 1257 01:03:56,700 --> 01:03:57,966 (fake laughing) 1258 01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,133 {\an1}...and push the card away that actually are able to, 1259 01:04:02,166 --> 01:04:03,766 {\an1}like, be the women who stay. 1260 01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,566 I see, yeah. 1261 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,066 {\an1}Imagine getting hit on at a conference, and then, 1262 01:04:09,100 --> 01:04:11,300 {\an1}like, someone else says, "Hey, do you want to talk about 1263 01:04:11,333 --> 01:04:16,233 {\an1}your poster over a beer across the street?" 1264 01:04:16,266 --> 01:04:17,900 {\an1}You think nothing of it, right? 1265 01:04:17,933 --> 01:04:20,700 {\an1}You're, like, "I'll try to ignore that being hit on 1266 01:04:20,733 --> 01:04:22,166 {\an1}"earlier in the day. 1267 01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,066 {\an1}"I'll go across the street, have a beer with this, you know, 1268 01:04:25,100 --> 01:04:26,733 big-name guy." 1269 01:04:26,766 --> 01:04:29,433 {\an1}And then you go across the street, 1270 01:04:29,466 --> 01:04:31,300 {\an1}and you have a beer with this guy, 1271 01:04:31,333 --> 01:04:34,466 {\an1}and then he hits on you, too. 1272 01:04:34,500 --> 01:04:40,066 {\an1}And then you walk back to your room with someone who, 1273 01:04:40,100 --> 01:04:43,200 {\an1}you know, was your lab mate, and they say, 1274 01:04:43,233 --> 01:04:44,966 {\an1}"What did you think he wanted? 1275 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:46,366 {\an1}"Do you think he was interested 1276 01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,466 {\an1}in talking about science with you?" 1277 01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:50,633 (laughs) 1278 01:04:50,666 --> 01:04:51,933 {\an1}How does that make you feel? 1279 01:04:51,966 --> 01:04:53,266 You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1280 01:04:53,300 --> 01:04:57,933 {\an1}And then you actually have someone who, you know, 1281 01:04:57,966 --> 01:05:01,233 {\an1}like, is, behaves completely professionally, 1282 01:05:01,266 --> 01:05:03,066 {\an1}values your opinion. 1283 01:05:03,100 --> 01:05:05,966 {\an1}And then you have some success in life, 1284 01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,833 {\an1}and then that same lab mate is, like, 1285 01:05:08,866 --> 01:05:10,266 {\an1}"Oh, I know why she got that. 1286 01:05:10,300 --> 01:05:14,233 {\an1}"She had a beer with the guy, and then she probably 1287 01:05:14,266 --> 01:05:16,400 {\an1}slept with him later on that night." 1288 01:05:16,433 --> 01:05:19,533 {\an1}And then, even though nothing happened, 1289 01:05:19,566 --> 01:05:23,466 {\an1}you've been hit on twice, you didn't do anything wrong, 1290 01:05:23,500 --> 01:05:26,966 {\an1}and now you have this reputation for having some success 1291 01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:31,000 {\an1}because you were seen having a beer with someone. 1292 01:05:31,033 --> 01:05:34,733 {\an1}That's the kind of crap that, like, that second group 1293 01:05:34,766 --> 01:05:37,733 of people does. 1294 01:05:37,766 --> 01:05:40,000 ♪ 1295 01:05:40,033 --> 01:05:43,366 {\an1}It's sort of, like, what is it? 1296 01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,566 {\an1}A ton of feathers is still a ton. 1297 01:05:51,266 --> 01:05:56,400 ♪ 1298 01:06:06,966 --> 01:06:11,200 {\an1}(projector clicking) 1299 01:06:11,233 --> 01:06:15,000 ♪ 1300 01:06:15,033 --> 01:06:18,733 LEWIS: Looking back on it, these really, really capable women 1301 01:06:18,766 --> 01:06:23,366 {\an1}are walking into a headwind that I didn't have. 1302 01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,533 {\an1}And sometimes they come up against a real brick wall 1303 01:06:27,566 --> 01:06:33,200 {\an1}in a guy like David Marchant. 1304 01:06:33,233 --> 01:06:35,200 ♪ 1305 01:06:35,233 --> 01:06:38,300 {\an1}You know, I saw that Dave was taking some special joy 1306 01:06:38,333 --> 01:06:40,900 {\an1}in tormenting her, 1307 01:06:40,933 --> 01:06:42,866 {\an1}calling her "Crazy Jane" all the time. 1308 01:06:42,900 --> 01:06:44,400 {\an1}"Hey, Crazy Jane, Crazy Jane." 1309 01:06:44,433 --> 01:06:47,600 {\an1}And I think one of the reasons that he got really into it 1310 01:06:47,633 --> 01:06:50,600 {\an1}is that she really was good at not showing 1311 01:06:50,633 --> 01:06:51,673 {\an1}that it was bothering her. 1312 01:06:51,700 --> 01:06:54,833 {\an1}So then he, he turned the dial up. 1313 01:06:54,866 --> 01:06:56,466 Didn't seem like it bothered her. 1314 01:06:56,500 --> 01:06:57,966 {\an1}He turned the dial up. 1315 01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:59,433 Didn't seem like it bothered her. 1316 01:06:59,466 --> 01:07:03,566 {\an1}And so, I'll be honest, I honestly did not... 1317 01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:04,942 {\an1}I mean, I knew he was being a dick. 1318 01:07:04,966 --> 01:07:07,933 {\an1}I knew it, but it just didn't seem to bother her. 1319 01:07:07,966 --> 01:07:10,600 {\an1}She seemed to just laugh it off. 1320 01:07:13,866 --> 01:07:16,933 {\an1}With the Dave and Jane thing, it comes back to me. 1321 01:07:16,966 --> 01:07:18,866 {\an1}Many, many other times in my life, 1322 01:07:18,900 --> 01:07:21,400 {\an1}I have jumped to the defense of the weaker person. 1323 01:07:21,433 --> 01:07:22,700 But with Jane, 1324 01:07:22,733 --> 01:07:25,400 I didn't see it, and it's just pure stupidity. 1325 01:07:25,433 --> 01:07:28,133 It was pure... 1326 01:07:28,166 --> 01:07:31,100 {\an1}I just didn't open my eyes to what was going on. 1327 01:07:31,133 --> 01:07:36,266 ♪ 1328 01:08:18,700 --> 01:08:20,900 ♪ 1329 01:08:20,933 --> 01:08:24,333 AZEEN GHORAYSHI: I have reported on sexual harassment 1330 01:08:24,366 --> 01:08:26,900 {\an1}in the sciences since 2015. 1331 01:08:26,933 --> 01:08:29,733 {\an1}The frustration with inaction is, is why 1332 01:08:29,766 --> 01:08:32,600 {\an7}we saw this wave of women coming forward 1333 01:08:32,633 --> 01:08:35,466 {\an7}to publicize their stories. 1334 01:08:35,500 --> 01:08:38,200 {\an1}I don't think that most people's first option is to, 1335 01:08:38,233 --> 01:08:40,766 {\an1}you know, go to a reporter and talk about the problems 1336 01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:42,866 they dealt with as a graduate student, you know? 1337 01:08:42,900 --> 01:08:46,166 {\an1}I think that very much happened as a result of 1338 01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,800 {\an1}a lot of other failures in the, along the way. 1339 01:08:49,833 --> 01:08:54,133 {\an1}Many of the women that I've spoken to in the stories 1340 01:08:54,166 --> 01:08:55,633 {\an1}that we've reported here 1341 01:08:55,666 --> 01:08:58,400 {\an1}about sexual harassment have left the field. 1342 01:08:58,433 --> 01:09:00,566 {\an1}And they have said very clearly that this is why 1343 01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:01,866 {\an1}they've left the field. 1344 01:09:01,900 --> 01:09:05,233 {\an1}That it was either the experience itself, 1345 01:09:05,266 --> 01:09:09,833 {\an1}or it was the process of trying to do anything about it 1346 01:09:09,866 --> 01:09:12,433 {\an1}that eventually made them throw their hands up and be, like, 1347 01:09:12,466 --> 01:09:13,466 "Screw it. 1348 01:09:13,500 --> 01:09:14,800 "This is not... 1349 01:09:14,833 --> 01:09:16,300 {\an1}I don't have to deal with this." 1350 01:09:16,333 --> 01:09:19,766 ♪ 1351 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:21,266 {\an1}(engines roaring) 1352 01:09:21,300 --> 01:09:24,000 REPORTER: Liftoff of America's first space shuttle. 1353 01:09:24,033 --> 01:09:26,266 {\an1}And the shuttle has cleared the tower. 1354 01:09:26,300 --> 01:09:30,633 WOMAN: I was seven when the space shuttle first went up. 1355 01:09:30,666 --> 01:09:32,333 {\an1}I decided right then and there 1356 01:09:32,366 --> 01:09:34,366 {\an1}that I wanted to be an astronaut. 1357 01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,500 {\an1}I don't think I realized how obsessive I was about it. 1358 01:09:37,533 --> 01:09:40,600 {\an1}It turns out most people didn't spend their nights 1359 01:09:40,633 --> 01:09:44,700 {\an1}listening to the same recordings of all the Apollo missions, 1360 01:09:44,733 --> 01:09:45,800 {\an1}you know, time after time. 1361 01:09:45,833 --> 01:09:47,066 ASTRONAUT: 2,500 feet. 1362 01:09:47,100 --> 01:09:48,400 MAN: Clear. 1363 01:09:48,433 --> 01:09:51,100 WOMAN: I just also loved science in college. 1364 01:09:51,133 --> 01:09:53,000 I wanted to take all the sciences, which I did, 1365 01:09:53,033 --> 01:09:57,233 {\an1}like, took a class in every science along the way. 1366 01:09:57,266 --> 01:09:58,900 {\an1}I enjoyed a lot of the other sciences, 1367 01:09:58,933 --> 01:10:00,800 {\an1}but geology was my passion. 1368 01:10:00,833 --> 01:10:03,800 {\an1}(cheers and applause) 1369 01:10:03,833 --> 01:10:06,066 {\an1}One of the unspoken rules was that you needed to have 1370 01:10:06,100 --> 01:10:08,433 {\an1}either a PhD or be coming out of 1371 01:10:08,466 --> 01:10:10,366 {\an1}the military as a pilot. 1372 01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:15,133 {\an1}And so that's what put me on the track of, "Must get my PhD." 1373 01:10:15,166 --> 01:10:18,966 PILOT: Two, one, nose gear is ten feet. 1374 01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:20,833 WOMAN: When I got the call back from B.U., 1375 01:10:20,866 --> 01:10:22,833 {\an1}they said they would love to have me. 1376 01:10:22,866 --> 01:10:25,633 I was admitted, and I could work in the program 1377 01:10:25,666 --> 01:10:29,033 {\an1}that I had applied to, but they also had this new professor 1378 01:10:29,066 --> 01:10:30,266 {\an1}who had just come in 1379 01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:35,466 {\an1}and was going to be doing Antarctic work. 1380 01:10:35,500 --> 01:10:39,433 {\an1}So I was the first grad student of Dave Marchant. 1381 01:10:39,466 --> 01:10:41,666 (traffic noise) 1382 01:10:41,700 --> 01:10:43,600 {\an1}So I arrived in September. 1383 01:10:43,633 --> 01:10:44,766 {\an1}In my second week, 1384 01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,566 {\an1}Dave told me that he did not want a woman 1385 01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,333 {\an1}as a graduate student. 1386 01:10:50,366 --> 01:10:52,566 {\an1}I said, "I don't have a gender-neutral name, 1387 01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:56,866 {\an1}so it was clear that I was a woman when I was applying." 1388 01:10:56,900 --> 01:10:59,100 {\an1}I can't remember exactly what he said, 1389 01:10:59,133 --> 01:11:00,676 {\an1}but it was more or less that the department 1390 01:11:00,700 --> 01:11:02,200 {\an1}had foisted me upon him. 1391 01:11:02,233 --> 01:11:07,133 {\an1}My experience when I was in Boston 1392 01:11:07,166 --> 01:11:10,133 {\an1}was fairly atrocious, 1393 01:11:10,166 --> 01:11:12,333 {\an1}but I really wasn't mentally prepared 1394 01:11:12,366 --> 01:11:15,766 {\an1}for what would happen when I got down into Antarctica. 1395 01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,966 ♪ 1396 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:23,700 {\an7}It was bullying from day one. 1397 01:11:23,733 --> 01:11:25,700 {\an7}He was using epithets all the time, 1398 01:11:25,733 --> 01:11:28,066 {\an1}"whore," "bitch." 1399 01:11:28,100 --> 01:11:30,042 {\an1}And then I remember the first time he called me (bleep). 1400 01:11:30,066 --> 01:11:34,666 {\an1}Later on, he would tell me that he did not believe that women 1401 01:11:34,700 --> 01:11:36,233 {\an1}should be on the ice in Antarctica, 1402 01:11:36,266 --> 01:11:40,866 {\an1}and we're altering the science on the ice for worse. 1403 01:11:40,900 --> 01:11:42,666 ♪ 1404 01:11:42,700 --> 01:11:45,466 {\an1}In order to do scientific work down in Antarctica, 1405 01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:47,266 {\an1}you need to apply for funding 1406 01:11:47,300 --> 01:11:50,700 {\an1}through the National Science Foundation Polar Programs. 1407 01:11:50,733 --> 01:11:53,166 {\an1}So there aren't alternate sources for funding 1408 01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:54,700 {\an1}if you want to do work there. 1409 01:11:54,733 --> 01:11:58,733 {\an1}And part of how Dave derived his authority 1410 01:11:58,766 --> 01:12:02,266 {\an1}was because he helped to decide who got the funding. 1411 01:12:02,300 --> 01:12:04,766 ♪ 1412 01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:07,500 {\an1}It was the middle of the summer in Antarctica, 1413 01:12:07,533 --> 01:12:09,133 {\an1}and we walked outside of the camp 1414 01:12:09,166 --> 01:12:11,200 {\an1}because he indicated that he had something 1415 01:12:11,233 --> 01:12:14,900 {\an1}that he wanted to tell me. 1416 01:12:14,933 --> 01:12:18,866 {\an1}He told me that he had decided that I would have no future 1417 01:12:18,900 --> 01:12:21,200 {\an1}in, in any polar studies, 1418 01:12:21,233 --> 01:12:25,966 {\an1}and that they would make sure that I got no funding. 1419 01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:27,833 My whole world was disintegrating, 1420 01:12:27,866 --> 01:12:31,600 {\an1}and then he, like, grinned at me, and walked off. 1421 01:12:31,633 --> 01:12:35,733 {\an1}And when we got back, I went to the chair of the department 1422 01:12:35,766 --> 01:12:38,500 {\an1}at the time, and explained all the circumstances. 1423 01:12:38,533 --> 01:12:40,033 {\an1}And it was a woman. 1424 01:12:40,066 --> 01:12:44,166 {\an1}She was sitting behind a desk in a fairly darkened room, 1425 01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:46,066 {\an1}and it was a big wooden desk. 1426 01:12:46,100 --> 01:12:50,100 {\an1}She said, "You can go through this, but Dr. Marchant 1427 01:12:50,133 --> 01:12:51,300 {\an1}"has a sterling reputation, 1428 01:12:51,333 --> 01:12:54,133 {\an1}"brings a lot of money into this department, 1429 01:12:54,166 --> 01:12:56,300 {\an1}"and wouldn't it just be easier if you just finished 1430 01:12:56,333 --> 01:12:59,300 {\an1}a master's degree and left?" 1431 01:12:59,333 --> 01:13:03,400 {\an1}And I was floored. 1432 01:13:03,433 --> 01:13:08,633 {\an1}The department judged that running one woman out of science 1433 01:13:08,666 --> 01:13:13,733 {\an1}was much less of a hassle than running a man out. 1434 01:13:15,133 --> 01:13:19,266 {\an7}Leaving without a PhD meant not applying to be an astronaut. 1435 01:13:19,300 --> 01:13:22,466 {\an7}And it was the end of the dream that I had had. 1436 01:13:22,500 --> 01:13:23,500 {\an1}Who knows if I'd ever 1437 01:13:23,533 --> 01:13:26,266 {\an1}actually have become an astronaut? 1438 01:13:26,300 --> 01:13:28,666 {\an1}But, if it was going to end, 1439 01:13:28,700 --> 01:13:32,966 {\an1}I would have wanted it to end on my terms. 1440 01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,133 {\an8}HOPKINS: For me, it was a conflict that was never to be resolved, 1441 01:13:45,166 --> 01:13:48,566 {\an7}even though I loved the science 1442 01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:50,000 {\an7}that was happening. 1443 01:13:50,033 --> 01:13:52,700 {\an7}So I just couldn't do it any longer. 1444 01:13:52,733 --> 01:13:55,000 {\an7}I was about 50, and I thought, 1445 01:13:55,033 --> 01:13:57,000 {\an7}"There are two choices here, either..." 1446 01:13:57,033 --> 01:14:00,866 {\an7}I could retire, but I'm not rich enough to retire, 1447 01:14:00,900 --> 01:14:02,400 {\an7}and never work again. 1448 01:14:02,433 --> 01:14:04,542 {\an7}There's no other thing I'd rather do outside of science. 1449 01:14:04,566 --> 01:14:05,766 {\an8}I just loved it. 1450 01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,766 {\an7}Somehow, I... this is worth fighting for. 1451 01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,166 {\an7}I'm going to fight enough that I can go in the lab 1452 01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,200 {\an1}and do an experiment, 1453 01:14:13,233 --> 01:14:16,366 {\an1}and somebody's not going to come and make it impossible for me 1454 01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,333 {\an1}to do it, or ruin it after I have done it, 1455 01:14:18,366 --> 01:14:20,500 {\an1}or take all the credit for it once it's done, 1456 01:14:20,533 --> 01:14:22,033 {\an1}or make sure that something bad... 1457 01:14:22,066 --> 01:14:25,833 {\an1}I'm going to fight for that because I just have to do this. 1458 01:14:25,866 --> 01:14:28,066 {\an1}I want to be a scientist. 1459 01:14:28,100 --> 01:14:33,766 {\an1}If you believe that passion for science, ability in science 1460 01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:37,666 {\an1}is evenly distributed among the sexes, 1461 01:14:37,700 --> 01:14:38,966 {\an1}if you don't have women, 1462 01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,933 you've lost half the best people. 1463 01:14:41,966 --> 01:14:47,100 ♪ 1464 01:14:50,500 --> 01:14:54,533 {\an1}Can we really afford to lose those top scientists? 1465 01:14:54,566 --> 01:14:59,700 ♪ 1466 01:15:02,766 --> 01:15:05,566 BANAJI: Often, people talk about the cost to women. 1467 01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:07,476 {\an1}For now, I want to put that aside and just talk about 1468 01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:09,233 {\an1}the cost to the world of science. 1469 01:15:09,266 --> 01:15:11,833 {\an1}I mean, how much are we costing ourselves? 1470 01:15:11,866 --> 01:15:16,533 {\an1}How many great discoveries have just been lost 1471 01:15:16,566 --> 01:15:20,833 {\an7}to us because we didn't have the eyes to see? 1472 01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,633 REPORTER: A study of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology 1473 01:15:28,666 --> 01:15:31,700 was launched by female faculty members 1474 01:15:31,733 --> 01:15:33,266 {\an1}fed up with unequal treatment. 1475 01:15:33,300 --> 01:15:35,809 REPORTER: At M.I.T., female professors have been learning lessons 1476 01:15:35,833 --> 01:15:36,800 the hard way. 1477 01:15:36,833 --> 01:15:38,266 {\an1}When the women compared notes, 1478 01:15:38,300 --> 01:15:40,733 {\an1}they found they all had similar problems. 1479 01:15:40,766 --> 01:15:43,166 That triggered a five-year study. 1480 01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,666 {\an1}What they found were salary inequities, 1481 01:15:45,700 --> 01:15:47,100 {\an1}lack of advancement... 1482 01:15:47,133 --> 01:15:48,766 McNUTT: As the evidence started coming in, 1483 01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:54,466 {\an1}it was really clear that there were major discrepancies. 1484 01:15:54,500 --> 01:15:58,466 CEYER: On the average, the laboratory space for women 1485 01:15:58,500 --> 01:16:03,866 {\an1}was significantly less than the laboratory space for men, 1486 01:16:03,900 --> 01:16:06,933 {\an7}and it was clear that the women 1487 01:16:06,966 --> 01:16:10,633 {\an7}were paid a lower salary than the men. 1488 01:16:10,666 --> 01:16:15,133 ROYDEN: M.I.T. was losing female faculty hires 1489 01:16:15,166 --> 01:16:16,500 {\an1}because of the childcare issue. 1490 01:16:16,533 --> 01:16:22,100 {\an1}There was no childcare anywhere in the central campus. 1491 01:16:22,133 --> 01:16:27,133 {\an7}I think it took all of that to make it comprehensible story. 1492 01:16:27,166 --> 01:16:30,066 ♪ 1493 01:16:30,100 --> 01:16:33,100 {\an1}It came to be known as the M.I.T. Report. 1494 01:16:33,133 --> 01:16:37,200 {\an1}It was just a summary of what we'd done with some data in it. 1495 01:16:37,233 --> 01:16:40,766 ♪ 1496 01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:42,609 {\an1}I said, "We've got to ask Chuck Vest if he'd like to 1497 01:16:42,633 --> 01:16:44,333 {\an1}"put a comment to go with the report. 1498 01:16:44,366 --> 01:16:46,800 {\an1}We don't want anyone to think that we blindsided them." 1499 01:16:46,833 --> 01:16:51,966 ♪ 1500 01:16:58,933 --> 01:17:02,300 ROBERT BROWN: It was a long time between the full report 1501 01:17:02,333 --> 01:17:04,400 {\an1}and then the decision. 1502 01:17:04,433 --> 01:17:06,300 {\an1}I would think it's almost months. 1503 01:17:06,333 --> 01:17:08,900 {\an1}Definitely weeks. 1504 01:17:08,933 --> 01:17:11,800 {\an1}It was very complicated for the university. 1505 01:17:11,833 --> 01:17:13,409 {\an1}You have to, I think, put this whole thing 1506 01:17:13,433 --> 01:17:15,333 {\an1}in the context of a university 1507 01:17:15,366 --> 01:17:19,700 {\an7}that really prided itself on being a meritocracy. 1508 01:17:19,733 --> 01:17:21,200 ♪ 1509 01:17:21,233 --> 01:17:23,833 HOPKINS: You thought no president of any university 1510 01:17:23,866 --> 01:17:25,500 {\an1}would ever understand, 1511 01:17:25,533 --> 01:17:27,300 {\an1}much less acknowledge publicly. 1512 01:17:27,333 --> 01:17:33,400 {\an1}He struggled with exactly the criticism that I think 1513 01:17:33,433 --> 01:17:34,866 {\an1}everyone knew we would get. 1514 01:17:34,900 --> 01:17:36,400 ♪ 1515 01:17:36,433 --> 01:17:40,500 HOPKINS: But then something really amazing happened. 1516 01:17:40,533 --> 01:17:42,733 {\an1}He endorsed the report. 1517 01:17:42,766 --> 01:17:44,609 {\an1}He wrote this comment, which really is, I think, 1518 01:17:44,633 --> 01:17:47,333 {\an1}the reason the M.I.T. Report became so well-known. 1519 01:17:47,366 --> 01:17:48,733 {\an1}"I have always believed 1520 01:17:48,766 --> 01:17:50,800 {\an1}"that contemporary gender discrimination 1521 01:17:50,833 --> 01:17:55,700 {\an1}"within universities is part reality and part perception, 1522 01:17:55,733 --> 01:17:59,566 {\an1}"but I now understand that reality is by far 1523 01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:03,166 the greater part of the balance." 1524 01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,866 CEYER: He came out and said, "There has been discrimination, 1525 01:18:06,900 --> 01:18:08,900 {\an1}"and there has been bias, 1526 01:18:08,933 --> 01:18:13,700 {\an1}and we're going to go forward and rectify this." 1527 01:18:13,733 --> 01:18:16,166 {\an1}What the report made us do is own the problem. 1528 01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:21,000 CEYER: Because it was based on data, 1529 01:18:21,033 --> 01:18:22,766 {\an1}you can't refute it. 1530 01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,266 ♪ 1531 01:18:25,300 --> 01:18:28,733 BROWN: It was a ripple that, you could feel that resonance, 1532 01:18:28,766 --> 01:18:31,133 {\an1}and that's because it was real. 1533 01:18:31,166 --> 01:18:33,633 CEYER: We all were amazed at the response. 1534 01:18:33,666 --> 01:18:36,266 HOPKINS: After the M.I.T. Report, I was invited to give 1535 01:18:36,300 --> 01:18:38,766 so many talks, and I went around the country, 1536 01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:40,666 {\an1}and I met so many women 1537 01:18:40,700 --> 01:18:42,600 {\an1}who had put so much time into this problem. 1538 01:18:42,633 --> 01:18:47,033 McNUTT: Women everywhere could go to their department heads, 1539 01:18:47,066 --> 01:18:48,300 {\an1}to their provosts, 1540 01:18:48,333 --> 01:18:51,000 {\an8}and say, "Why are we not doing this?" 1541 01:18:51,033 --> 01:18:52,500 {\an8}And they did. 1542 01:19:10,366 --> 01:19:15,300 BHATIA: The last 20 years for me have been 1543 01:19:15,333 --> 01:19:20,066 {\an1}sort of a slow continuous change. 1544 01:19:20,100 --> 01:19:22,133 {\an1}I was a graduate student at M.I.T. in the '90s. 1545 01:19:22,166 --> 01:19:25,266 {\an1}I was one of very few women. 1546 01:19:25,300 --> 01:19:28,766 {\an1}And then when I came back to be on the faculty of 2005, 1547 01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:30,000 {\an7}every step of the way, 1548 01:19:30,033 --> 01:19:32,166 {\an7}someone has been quietly watching my salary, 1549 01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:34,466 {\an7}making sure that it was equal. 1550 01:19:34,500 --> 01:19:37,766 {\an1}So I have benefited from the work that they did. 1551 01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:41,533 {\an1}And I try to do, you know, that for the next generation. 1552 01:19:43,700 --> 01:19:48,466 BROWN: It was a turning point for me as a university administrator. 1553 01:19:48,500 --> 01:19:53,100 {\an1}I remember going to a meeting of provosts not long after that 1554 01:19:53,133 --> 01:19:55,700 {\an1}and getting browbeat by a number of provosts... 1555 01:19:55,733 --> 01:19:58,000 {\an1}I'm not going to say who... 1556 01:19:58,033 --> 01:20:01,233 Who said, "It's not in my institution." 1557 01:20:03,533 --> 01:20:04,766 {\an1}There still is bias. 1558 01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:08,100 {\an1}People still have implicit bias and explicit bias. 1559 01:20:08,133 --> 01:20:11,133 {\an1}You know, these are tough societal problems, 1560 01:20:11,166 --> 01:20:13,733 {\an1}and you can't lose the energy, 1561 01:20:13,766 --> 01:20:18,133 {\an1}because you won't solve the problem unless you build in, 1562 01:20:18,166 --> 01:20:21,500 you know, systematic structural change 1563 01:20:21,533 --> 01:20:26,800 {\an1}that can keep working over a long timeframe. 1564 01:20:31,066 --> 01:20:32,100 {\an8}WOMAN: Nancy, hi! 1565 01:20:32,133 --> 01:20:33,466 {\an7}How are you, Nancy? 1566 01:20:33,500 --> 01:20:35,733 {\an7}So good to see you. How are you? 1567 01:20:35,766 --> 01:20:38,300 {\an1}I can't remember the last time I saw you. 1568 01:20:38,333 --> 01:20:40,600 {\an1}How are you, how are you? Good to see you. 1569 01:20:40,633 --> 01:20:43,466 {\an1}You're wearing a different costume! 1570 01:20:43,500 --> 01:20:47,100 {\an4}Oh, so good to see you. Nancy, this is such a crazy thing. 1571 01:20:47,133 --> 01:20:50,100 HOPKINS: It took that group working together 1572 01:20:50,133 --> 01:20:51,600 {\an1}to take this problem on. 1573 01:20:51,633 --> 01:20:53,400 {\an1}It really couldn't have been done otherwise. 1574 01:20:53,433 --> 01:20:56,300 {\an1}MALANOTTE-RIZZOLI: Sylvia, myself, Penny, 1575 01:20:56,333 --> 01:20:58,500 Nancy, Vicki. 1576 01:20:58,533 --> 01:20:59,766 We were much younger. 1577 01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:01,300 (laughter) 1578 01:21:01,333 --> 01:21:02,466 CHISHOLM: Everyone was. 1579 01:21:02,500 --> 01:21:05,666 20 years. 1580 01:21:05,700 --> 01:21:08,900 {\an1}You know, this kind of thing takes somebody who's passionate, 1581 01:21:08,933 --> 01:21:10,342 who's willing to give their life to it, 1582 01:21:10,366 --> 01:21:11,576 {\an1}and who has tremendous courage. 1583 01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:12,833 The first toast 1584 01:21:12,866 --> 01:21:16,200 {\an1}is to Nancy, and the second toast is to all of us. 1585 01:21:16,233 --> 01:21:20,033 {\an1}(laughter, chatter) 1586 01:21:20,066 --> 01:21:22,600 {\an1}If you go back and read the things that we wrote, 1587 01:21:22,633 --> 01:21:24,066 {\an1}they're brilliant! 1588 01:21:24,100 --> 01:21:28,866 (laughter) 1589 01:21:28,900 --> 01:21:32,500 ♪ 1590 01:21:38,133 --> 01:21:39,433 BURKS: So we are in Quebec City 1591 01:21:39,466 --> 01:21:43,166 {\an1}for the Canadian Chemical Society meeting. 1592 01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:45,933 {\an1}I am speaking at the meeting. 1593 01:21:45,966 --> 01:21:47,176 {\an1}I always get really, really nervous. 1594 01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:50,200 {\an1}A skosh of it might be impostor syndrome, 1595 01:21:50,233 --> 01:21:52,866 {\an1}which a lot of people get. 1596 01:21:52,900 --> 01:21:54,100 {\an1}But I also think part of it 1597 01:21:54,133 --> 01:21:58,900 {\an1}is the expectations sometimes for speakers 1598 01:21:58,933 --> 01:22:01,733 {\an1}from historically marginalized groups are higher. 1599 01:22:01,766 --> 01:22:03,300 {\an1}(indistinct chatter) 1600 01:22:03,333 --> 01:22:05,300 WOMAN: "The Washington Post," "Chemistry World," 1601 01:22:05,333 --> 01:22:06,600 {\an1}and "Scientific American" 1602 01:22:06,633 --> 01:22:09,200 {\an1}have all featured her pop-culture chemistry writing. 1603 01:22:09,233 --> 01:22:10,876 {\an1}And if you haven't yet checked out her blogs 1604 01:22:10,900 --> 01:22:15,400 {\an1}and podcasts, they make really excellent content for lectures. 1605 01:22:15,433 --> 01:22:18,366 {\an1}Please join me in welcoming Dr. Raychelle Burks to the stage. 1606 01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:24,066 (applause) 1607 01:22:24,100 --> 01:22:25,109 {\an1}BURKS: So I want to kick off my talk 1608 01:22:25,133 --> 01:22:27,300 {\an1}by first talking about code-switching. 1609 01:22:27,333 --> 01:22:30,300 {\an1}So how many folks are familiar with code-switching? 1610 01:22:30,333 --> 01:22:32,700 {\an1}And so it's a linguistic term. 1611 01:22:32,733 --> 01:22:36,466 {\an1}Oftentimes in linguistics, it's considered between languages. 1612 01:22:36,500 --> 01:22:39,033 {\an1}Definitely when you're learning a new language, right? 1613 01:22:39,066 --> 01:22:41,666 {\an1}But in the last ten to 15 years, this has really been expanded, 1614 01:22:41,700 --> 01:22:42,800 {\an1}and this is actually 1615 01:22:42,833 --> 01:22:44,666 {\an1}a great visual of what code-switching is. 1616 01:22:44,700 --> 01:22:47,733 {\an1}So look at how he's doing this handshake... 1617 01:22:47,766 --> 01:22:50,200 {\an1}And then with Durant, right? 1618 01:22:50,233 --> 01:22:51,566 {\an1}There's a familiarity there. 1619 01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,733 {\an1}You code-switch, right? 1620 01:22:53,766 --> 01:22:55,166 {\an1}If you're at work, 1621 01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,233 {\an1}talking to your colleagues, talking to the dean, or at home, 1622 01:22:58,266 --> 01:23:00,033 you switch your styles. 1623 01:23:00,066 --> 01:23:01,433 You may also switch your language. 1624 01:23:01,466 --> 01:23:02,900 {\an1}Even though we all do it, 1625 01:23:02,933 --> 01:23:04,800 {\an1}the historically marginalized do it sometimes 1626 01:23:04,833 --> 01:23:06,633 {\an1}for a different reason, right? 1627 01:23:06,666 --> 01:23:10,166 {\an1}We do it because we're told in implicit and explicit ways 1628 01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,466 {\an1}that basically everything you are, 1629 01:23:12,500 --> 01:23:14,409 {\an1}from the top of your head to the bottom of your toes, 1630 01:23:14,433 --> 01:23:15,933 needs to change. 1631 01:23:15,966 --> 01:23:18,666 {\an1}Your hair, your "ethnic dress," 1632 01:23:18,700 --> 01:23:22,366 {\an1}your mannerisms, they got to go, right? 1633 01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:23,833 {\an1}And we often do it 1634 01:23:23,866 --> 01:23:26,633 {\an1}by calling it "professional" 1635 01:23:26,666 --> 01:23:28,933 {\an1}or "professional standards," right? 1636 01:23:28,966 --> 01:23:32,100 {\an1}And what we need to realize is that our so-called 1637 01:23:32,133 --> 01:23:34,933 {\an1}professional standards or professionalism, 1638 01:23:34,966 --> 01:23:37,133 {\an1}who got to decide that? 1639 01:23:37,166 --> 01:23:40,666 {\an1}Who got to make those rules, right? 1640 01:23:40,700 --> 01:23:42,966 {\an1}'Cause I don't recall making a rule that my hair 1641 01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:44,566 {\an1}needed to be straight. 1642 01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,166 {\an1}And I have absolutely been told, you know, 1643 01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:48,800 {\an1}"Before you go to that talk, 1644 01:23:48,833 --> 01:23:52,000 {\an1}are you going to make your hair look more professional?" 1645 01:23:52,033 --> 01:23:54,033 {\an1}K through 12, college, 1646 01:23:54,066 --> 01:23:56,300 graduate school, 1647 01:23:56,333 --> 01:23:57,733 {\an1}and now we hear this kind of thing. 1648 01:23:57,766 --> 01:23:59,033 {\an1}"Science is apolitical," right? 1649 01:23:59,066 --> 01:24:00,600 {\an1}"It's objective." 1650 01:24:00,633 --> 01:24:03,200 {\an1}"It's free from bias where only the best rise to the top." 1651 01:24:03,233 --> 01:24:06,666 {\an1}And I did believe that, okay? 1652 01:24:06,700 --> 01:24:08,542 {\an1}And maybe there are some of you sitting in the audience 1653 01:24:08,566 --> 01:24:10,600 that are, like, "No, that's absolutely true. 1654 01:24:10,633 --> 01:24:12,133 {\an1}And I refuse to hear differently." 1655 01:24:12,166 --> 01:24:16,166 {\an1}And it's not true, because science is a human endeavor, 1656 01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:18,233 {\an1}and that means that it contains and is subject to 1657 01:24:18,266 --> 01:24:21,700 {\an1}all of our brilliance and all of our bias. 1658 01:24:21,733 --> 01:24:24,800 {\an1}And we tend to focus on the brilliance part, but remember, 1659 01:24:24,833 --> 01:24:27,533 {\an1}there's an "and bias." 1660 01:24:27,566 --> 01:24:32,000 {\an1}This is advice that I've gotten, and I'm passing it on. 1661 01:24:32,033 --> 01:24:33,233 {\an1}Take care of yourself. 1662 01:24:33,266 --> 01:24:34,866 {\an1}Take care of you, take care of others. 1663 01:24:34,900 --> 01:24:39,500 {\an1}You cannot do everything on your own. 1664 01:24:39,533 --> 01:24:42,533 {\an1}You need enough of your allies, well positioned, 1665 01:24:42,566 --> 01:24:44,533 {\an1}to make something happen. 1666 01:24:44,566 --> 01:24:47,033 {\an1}It's about doing. 1667 01:24:47,066 --> 01:24:48,800 {\an1}The correction requires action. 1668 01:24:48,833 --> 01:24:51,700 We can do better, we can get better, 1669 01:24:51,733 --> 01:24:54,033 {\an1}and we will be better together. 1670 01:24:54,066 --> 01:24:56,066 Thank you. 1671 01:24:56,100 --> 01:24:59,366 (applause) 1672 01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:05,700 ♪ 1673 01:25:19,966 --> 01:25:21,833 {\an8}Awesome. 1674 01:25:21,866 --> 01:25:25,200 {\an7}There you go. Perfect. 1675 01:25:25,233 --> 01:25:28,300 WILLENBRING: So we're going to take a sample, take it back to the lab, 1676 01:25:28,333 --> 01:25:33,433 {\an1}and crush it, and then we do all kinds of things to it. 1677 01:25:33,466 --> 01:25:35,433 (chuckles) 1678 01:25:35,466 --> 01:25:38,833 {\an7}You'll take that tiny little powder that you end up with, 1679 01:25:38,866 --> 01:25:42,300 {\an7}and you'll pack that into a little target 1680 01:25:42,333 --> 01:25:45,733 {\an7}that you send to the accelerator mass spectrometer, 1681 01:25:45,766 --> 01:25:48,333 {\an1}and the whole sample that you end up with 1682 01:25:48,366 --> 01:25:50,133 {\an1}is, like, the head of a pin. 1683 01:25:50,166 --> 01:25:51,100 Sometimes we use 1684 01:25:51,133 --> 01:25:53,533 {\an1}kilograms of samples, 1685 01:25:53,566 --> 01:25:56,900 {\an1}and we'll end up with just this little tiny thing 1686 01:25:56,933 --> 01:25:59,900 {\an1}that will disappear if you sneeze, so we don't do that. 1687 01:25:59,933 --> 01:26:02,733 (laughter) 1688 01:26:02,766 --> 01:26:07,200 {\an8}WILLENBRING: One of my goals in mentoring is 1689 01:26:07,233 --> 01:26:11,900 {\an7}to be someone that I needed when I was younger. 1690 01:26:11,933 --> 01:26:13,309 {\an7}All right, so do we measure or should we keep going? 1691 01:26:13,333 --> 01:26:14,733 {\an8}WILLENBRING: Maybe a little bit more. 1692 01:26:14,766 --> 01:26:16,633 {\an8}(hammering) 1693 01:26:16,666 --> 01:26:18,233 {\an8}WOMAN: Jane's a great adviser. 1694 01:26:18,266 --> 01:26:21,400 {\an7}She really is somebody who I can admire and look up to 1695 01:26:21,433 --> 01:26:26,400 {\an7}and take as a role model in many different ways. 1696 01:26:26,433 --> 01:26:28,633 {\an8}WILLENBRING: Oh, that's the money right there. 1697 01:26:28,666 --> 01:26:30,600 {\an8}Ah, perfect. 1698 01:26:30,633 --> 01:26:33,500 {\an8}WILLENBRING: If you hit it a couple of more times. 1699 01:26:33,533 --> 01:26:36,800 {\an8}♪ 1700 01:26:36,833 --> 01:26:39,966 {\an1}I think about what would have led the faculty committee 1701 01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:45,733 {\an1}to have come to that decision to let him back on. 1702 01:26:45,766 --> 01:26:49,500 {\an1}They said that he would be able to resume his normal activities 1703 01:26:49,533 --> 01:26:52,033 {\an1}after a certain period of time. 1704 01:26:52,066 --> 01:26:54,633 {\an1}So I was in sort of disbelief. 1705 01:26:57,500 --> 01:27:02,133 {\an1}But the president, fortunately, thought something different. 1706 01:27:02,166 --> 01:27:03,533 BROWN: I'm Bob Brown. 1707 01:27:03,566 --> 01:27:06,533 {\an1}I'm president of Boston University, 1708 01:27:06,566 --> 01:27:08,900 {\an1}and before that, was provost at M.I.T. 1709 01:27:08,933 --> 01:27:14,133 ♪ 1710 01:27:14,166 --> 01:27:16,566 NEWS REPORTER: Boston University has fired a professor 1711 01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:18,366 {\an1}accused of sexual harassment. 1712 01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:20,000 {\an1}In a letter to the faculty Friday, 1713 01:27:20,033 --> 01:27:22,033 {\an1}B.U. president Robert Brown announced 1714 01:27:22,066 --> 01:27:24,500 {\an1}that after a 13-month investigation, 1715 01:27:24,533 --> 01:27:26,733 {\an1}the board of trustees voted to terminate 1716 01:27:26,766 --> 01:27:28,500 {\an1}Dr. David Marchant's employment. 1717 01:27:28,533 --> 01:27:31,700 WILLENBRING: When I heard the news, 1718 01:27:31,733 --> 01:27:34,900 {\an1}I was a little bit conflicted, because on the one hand, 1719 01:27:34,933 --> 01:27:36,633 {\an1}it was great that he was fired 1720 01:27:36,666 --> 01:27:38,866 {\an1}and wouldn't be able to do anything 1721 01:27:38,900 --> 01:27:42,700 {\an1}to other female trainees. 1722 01:27:42,733 --> 01:27:48,066 {\an1}But on the other hand, in so many cases, 1723 01:27:48,100 --> 01:27:52,166 {\an1}there's not that justice that happens. 1724 01:27:52,933 --> 01:27:54,433 {\an1}(Sylvie speaks indistinctly) 1725 01:27:54,466 --> 01:27:56,900 {\an1}(Willenbring laughs) 1726 01:27:56,933 --> 01:28:01,133 A lot of people, especially male scientists, 1727 01:28:01,166 --> 01:28:03,833 {\an1}you know, when they heard about my story, 1728 01:28:03,866 --> 01:28:07,300 {\an1}I received a diversity of responses. 1729 01:28:07,333 --> 01:28:09,200 {\an1}Some people avoided eye contact. 1730 01:28:09,233 --> 01:28:14,000 {\an1}Some people wanted to have nothing to do with me. 1731 01:28:14,033 --> 01:28:18,000 {\an1}Some people wanted to talk about it and ask what they could do, 1732 01:28:18,033 --> 01:28:19,966 which I think is a great response. 1733 01:28:23,333 --> 01:28:26,900 {\an1}One thing that's been really impressive has been 1734 01:28:26,933 --> 01:28:31,400 {\an1}how much people have wanted to make change as a result. 1735 01:28:34,100 --> 01:28:36,900 {\an1}The Science and Technology Committee opened an inquiry. 1736 01:28:36,933 --> 01:28:41,833 {\an1}They were shocked that someone who'd been harassing women 1737 01:28:41,866 --> 01:28:45,133 {\an1}for decades had received millions of dollars 1738 01:28:45,166 --> 01:28:48,433 {\an1}in National Science Foundation funding. 1739 01:28:48,466 --> 01:28:50,276 {\an1}BARBARA COMSTOCK: The Committee on Science, Space, and Technology 1740 01:28:50,300 --> 01:28:52,433 {\an1}will come to order. (gavel raps) 1741 01:28:52,466 --> 01:28:54,866 {\an1}And I now recognize Dr. Clancy for five minutes 1742 01:28:54,900 --> 01:28:56,633 {\an1}to present her testimony. 1743 01:28:56,666 --> 01:28:59,533 {\an1}We scientists do this work because we want to give 1744 01:28:59,566 --> 01:29:02,666 {\an1}the best of ourselves to the advancement of science. 1745 01:29:02,700 --> 01:29:05,100 {\an1}Women keep trying to give us their best, 1746 01:29:05,133 --> 01:29:08,500 {\an1}and we blow ash in their faces and push them down mountains. 1747 01:29:08,533 --> 01:29:10,866 {\an1}The way we've tried to fix this problem isn't working. 1748 01:29:10,900 --> 01:29:13,266 {\an1}We have decades of evidence to prove it. 1749 01:29:13,300 --> 01:29:15,266 {\an1}Let's move away from a culture of compliance 1750 01:29:15,300 --> 01:29:16,933 {\an1}and towards a culture of change. 1751 01:29:16,966 --> 01:29:19,900 ♪ 1752 01:29:34,666 --> 01:29:37,533 {\an8}♪ 1753 01:29:44,566 --> 01:29:48,433 HOPKINS: Despite all the progress, and it's tremendous progress, 1754 01:29:48,466 --> 01:29:52,300 {\an1}women still grapple with these problems. 1755 01:29:52,333 --> 01:29:54,933 {\an1}People had never really looked at the data 1756 01:29:54,966 --> 01:29:57,466 {\an1}in the way that we looked at it as a committee. 1757 01:29:57,500 --> 01:30:01,266 So I kept memos, just copies of memos. 1758 01:30:01,300 --> 01:30:04,266 {\an1}And what's astonishing to me when I look at all of this 1759 01:30:04,300 --> 01:30:07,400 {\an1}is the amount of time and the amount of work 1760 01:30:07,433 --> 01:30:10,033 {\an1}that went into doing this, 1761 01:30:10,066 --> 01:30:12,400 {\an1}asking people to come to meetings 1762 01:30:12,433 --> 01:30:15,533 {\an7}and the amount of effort it took to try to see... 1763 01:30:15,566 --> 01:30:17,600 {\an7}And I think about, you know... 1764 01:30:17,633 --> 01:30:21,200 {\an7}it makes me realize, you know, that at the time, 1765 01:30:21,233 --> 01:30:23,233 {\an1}I was spending 20 hours a week or something on this 1766 01:30:23,266 --> 01:30:26,133 {\an1}and then doing my job the rest of the time. 1767 01:30:26,166 --> 01:30:27,533 It makes me sad. 1768 01:30:27,566 --> 01:30:28,633 It really does. 1769 01:30:28,666 --> 01:30:31,366 {\an1}You know, you sort of wonder in your life, 1770 01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:33,500 {\an1}would you have done it differently? 1771 01:30:33,533 --> 01:30:36,133 {\an1}And, gosh, I don't know. 1772 01:30:36,166 --> 01:30:37,766 {\an1}I couldn't have lived without science, 1773 01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:39,642 {\an1}but I wouldn't live through this again, I'll tell you. 1774 01:30:39,666 --> 01:30:41,409 {\an1}So I don't know what the answer should have been, 1775 01:30:41,433 --> 01:30:42,566 would have been. 1776 01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:43,933 {\an1}I still don't know. 1777 01:30:43,966 --> 01:30:48,666 {\an1}It can still... Even now, just, just thinking about it, 1778 01:30:48,700 --> 01:30:51,800 {\an1}you know, that it was this way. 1779 01:30:51,833 --> 01:30:53,600 {\an1}Such a waste of time and energy, 1780 01:30:53,633 --> 01:30:55,533 {\an1}when all you wanted to do was be a scientist. 1781 01:30:55,566 --> 01:30:57,666 What on Earth? 1782 01:30:57,700 --> 01:31:00,700 ♪ 1783 01:31:10,266 --> 01:31:13,366 {\an1}Look at the talent of these women. 1784 01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:18,266 {\an1}This is what you lose when you do not solve this problem. 1785 01:31:18,300 --> 01:31:21,600 ♪ 1786 01:31:23,300 --> 01:31:25,700 {\an1}And that's really what it's about. 1787 01:31:25,733 --> 01:31:28,566 {\an1}It's about the science. 1788 01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:31,700 ♪ 1789 01:32:13,933 --> 01:32:17,100 {\an8}♪ 1790 01:32:17,133 --> 01:32:20,266 {\an8}REPORTER: As misinformation and so-called fake news continues 1791 01:32:20,300 --> 01:32:22,033 {\an7}to be rapidly distributed on the internet, 1792 01:32:22,066 --> 01:32:24,200 {\an7}our reality has become increasingly shaped 1793 01:32:24,233 --> 01:32:25,700 {\an7}by false information. 1794 01:32:25,733 --> 01:32:27,209 {\an7}Many people don't know the difference between 1795 01:32:27,233 --> 01:32:31,666 {\an7}something real and something created to deceive them. 1796 01:32:31,700 --> 01:32:36,366 {\an8}SAFIYA NOBLE: I spent about 15 years in advertising and marketing, 1797 01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:42,433 {\an7}and while I was there, Google arrived on the scene. 1798 01:32:42,466 --> 01:32:45,933 {\an1}I understood the transformative effect that this search engine 1799 01:32:45,966 --> 01:32:47,833 {\an1}was having in helping us curate 1800 01:32:47,866 --> 01:32:50,333 {\an1}through all kinds of information. 1801 01:32:50,366 --> 01:32:53,366 {\an1}But I was surprised, having just left advertising, 1802 01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:55,766 {\an1}that everybody was thinking about Google 1803 01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:58,366 {\an1}as this new public trusted resource, 1804 01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:02,666 {\an1}because I thought of it as an advertising platform. 1805 01:33:04,366 --> 01:33:06,133 {\an1}Most people who use search engines believe 1806 01:33:06,166 --> 01:33:11,233 {\an1}that search engine results are fair and unbiased. 1807 01:33:12,833 --> 01:33:15,966 {\an1}The public, and especially kids and young people, 1808 01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:21,866 {\an1}use search engines to tell them the facts about the world. 1809 01:33:21,900 --> 01:33:23,666 ♪ 1810 01:33:26,966 --> 01:33:30,933 {\an1}One weekend, my nieces were coming over to hang out, 1811 01:33:30,966 --> 01:33:33,266 {\an1}and I was thinking, "Oh, let me pull my laptop out 1812 01:33:33,300 --> 01:33:34,476 {\an1}"and see if I can find some cool things 1813 01:33:34,500 --> 01:33:35,509 {\an1}for us to do this weekend." 1814 01:33:35,533 --> 01:33:40,066 {\an1}I just thought to type in "Black girls," 1815 01:33:40,100 --> 01:33:41,666 {\an1}and the whole first page 1816 01:33:41,700 --> 01:33:45,200 {\an1}of search results was almost exclusively pornography 1817 01:33:45,233 --> 01:33:47,966 {\an1}or hyper-sexualized content. 1818 01:33:49,233 --> 01:33:55,033 {\an1}In 2012, I started to see some of the results changing. 1819 01:33:55,066 --> 01:33:58,566 {\an1}Google had started to suppress the pornography 1820 01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:01,233 {\an1}around Black girls. 1821 01:34:01,266 --> 01:34:05,300 {\an1}Unfortunately, still today, we see pornography 1822 01:34:05,333 --> 01:34:08,200 {\an1}and a kind of hyper-sexualized content as the primary way 1823 01:34:08,233 --> 01:34:12,400 {\an1}in which Latina and Asian girls are represented. 1824 01:34:12,433 --> 01:34:16,233 {\an1}"What makes Asian girls so attractive," "Asian fetish," 1825 01:34:16,266 --> 01:34:21,766 {\an1}"hot ladies from Asians," "see who we rank number one in 2020," 1826 01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:25,533 {\an1}"tender Asian girls," "meet world beauties." 1827 01:34:25,566 --> 01:34:28,866 ♪ 1828 01:34:28,900 --> 01:34:33,100 {\an1}This is the study that was done by the Markup 1829 01:34:33,133 --> 01:34:35,833 {\an1}that replicated my study from ten years ago. 1830 01:34:35,866 --> 01:34:39,166 {\an1}They found that Black girls, Latina girls, and Asian girls, 1831 01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:42,133 {\an1}those phrases were... look... 1832 01:34:42,166 --> 01:34:47,133 {\an1}so profoundly linked with kind of adult content. 1833 01:34:47,166 --> 01:34:49,966 {\an7}Zero for white girls, zero for white boys. 1834 01:34:53,300 --> 01:34:54,800 {\an1}There are so many racial stereotypes 1835 01:34:54,833 --> 01:35:00,366 {\an1}and gender stereotypes that show up in search results. 1836 01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:03,066 {\an1}What about actual girls and children 1837 01:35:03,100 --> 01:35:06,666 {\an1}who go and look for themselves in these spaces? 1838 01:35:10,966 --> 01:35:12,933 {\an1}It's very disheartening. 1839 01:35:12,966 --> 01:35:17,300 {\an1}When women become sex objects in a space like this, 1840 01:35:17,333 --> 01:35:21,266 {\an1}it's really profound, because the public generally relates 1841 01:35:21,300 --> 01:35:24,066 {\an1}to search engines as kind of fact checkers. 1842 01:35:26,266 --> 01:35:29,233 ♪ 1843 01:35:29,266 --> 01:35:33,300 {\an1}Before we were so heavily reliant upon a database, 1844 01:35:33,333 --> 01:35:35,566 {\an1}we used something like a card catalogue. 1845 01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:37,566 ♪ 1846 01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:41,100 {\an1}We didn't rank content, it was alphabetical. 1847 01:35:41,133 --> 01:35:42,733 {\an1}It also might be by subject. 1848 01:35:42,766 --> 01:35:45,000 It's a summary of the organization system 1849 01:35:45,033 --> 01:35:47,733 we call the Dewey Decimal System. 1850 01:35:47,766 --> 01:35:51,133 NOBLE: Now when we're in a subject, we know there is 1851 01:35:51,166 --> 01:35:54,166 {\an1}a lot in relationship to that one item 1852 01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:55,533 {\an1}that we might be looking for. 1853 01:35:55,566 --> 01:35:59,466 {\an1}We might go look for a book in the stacks, for example, 1854 01:35:59,500 --> 01:36:04,133 {\an1}and find that there's hundreds of books around that one 1855 01:36:04,166 --> 01:36:06,300 {\an1}that tell us something about that book, 1856 01:36:06,333 --> 01:36:09,800 {\an1}and we might serendipitously find all kinds of other bits 1857 01:36:09,833 --> 01:36:11,300 {\an1}of information that are amazing. 1858 01:36:11,333 --> 01:36:15,633 {\an1}But we can see a little a bit more about the logics of that. 1859 01:36:15,666 --> 01:36:18,700 {\an1}We don't understand the logics of how certain things 1860 01:36:18,733 --> 01:36:23,733 {\an1}make it to the first page in a search. 1861 01:36:23,766 --> 01:36:26,900 {\an1}Google has a very complicated 1862 01:36:26,933 --> 01:36:31,000 {\an1}and nuanced algorithm for search. 1863 01:36:33,766 --> 01:36:36,600 {\an1}Over 200 different factors go into 1864 01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:39,566 {\an1}how they decide what we see. 1865 01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:41,866 {\an1}Of course, they're indexing about half 1866 01:36:41,900 --> 01:36:44,700 {\an1}of all of the information that is on the web, 1867 01:36:44,733 --> 01:36:47,833 {\an1}and even that is trillions of pages. 1868 01:36:47,866 --> 01:36:49,533 AD ANNOUNCER: Billions of times a day, 1869 01:36:49,566 --> 01:36:52,333 {\an1}Google software locates all the potentially relevant results 1870 01:36:52,366 --> 01:36:54,500 {\an1}on the web, removes all the spam, and ranks them 1871 01:36:54,533 --> 01:36:58,433 {\an1}based on hundreds of factors, like keywords, links, location, 1872 01:36:58,466 --> 01:37:02,066 and freshness... All in, oh, 0.81 seconds. 1873 01:37:04,100 --> 01:37:07,600 NOBLE: The whole premise of a search engine is to categorize 1874 01:37:07,633 --> 01:37:11,133 {\an1}and classify information. 1875 01:37:11,166 --> 01:37:13,733 {\an1}A lot of the content that comes back to us on the internet, 1876 01:37:13,766 --> 01:37:17,166 {\an1}it's in a cultural context of ranking. 1877 01:37:17,200 --> 01:37:20,166 {\an7}We know very early what it means to be number one, 1878 01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:23,366 {\an7}so ranking logic signals to us 1879 01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:26,666 {\an7}that the classification is accurate, 1880 01:37:26,700 --> 01:37:28,500 {\an7}from one being the best 1881 01:37:28,533 --> 01:37:32,600 {\an7}to whatever is on page 48 of search, 1882 01:37:32,633 --> 01:37:35,666 {\an1}which nobody ever looks at. 1883 01:37:35,700 --> 01:37:37,800 {\an1}(keyboard clacking) 1884 01:37:38,866 --> 01:37:41,200 {\an1}Part of what it's doing is picking up signals 1885 01:37:41,233 --> 01:37:43,300 {\an1}from things that we've clicked on in the past, 1886 01:37:43,333 --> 01:37:45,533 {\an1}that a lot of other people have clicked on, 1887 01:37:45,566 --> 01:37:48,333 {\an1}things that are popular. 1888 01:37:48,366 --> 01:37:53,866 {\an1}So an algorithm is, in essence, a decision tree. 1889 01:37:53,900 --> 01:37:56,300 {\an1}If these conditions are present, 1890 01:37:56,333 --> 01:37:58,700 {\an1}then this decision should be made. 1891 01:37:58,733 --> 01:38:02,866 {\an1}And the decision tree gets automated 1892 01:38:02,900 --> 01:38:06,233 {\an1}so that it becomes like a sorting mechanism. 1893 01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:12,833 {\an7}Google's very reliable for certain types of information. 1894 01:38:12,866 --> 01:38:16,266 {\an1}If you're using it in this kind of phone book fashion, 1895 01:38:16,300 --> 01:38:18,766 {\an1}it's fairly reliable. 1896 01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:20,566 {\an1}But when you start asking a search engine 1897 01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:23,566 {\an1}more complex questions, or you start looking for knowledge, 1898 01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:27,766 {\an1}the evidence isn't there that it's capable of doing that. 1899 01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:30,500 {\an1}It's this combination of hyperlinking, 1900 01:38:30,533 --> 01:38:33,866 {\an1}it's a combination of advertising and capital, 1901 01:38:33,900 --> 01:38:36,166 {\an1}and also what people click on 1902 01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:39,966 {\an1}that really drives what we find on the web. 1903 01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:43,966 {\an1}This is where we start falling into trickier situations, 1904 01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:47,133 {\an1}because those who have the most money are really able 1905 01:38:47,166 --> 01:38:50,666 {\an1}to optimize their content better than anyone else. 1906 01:38:50,700 --> 01:38:53,733 ♪ 1907 01:38:53,766 --> 01:38:57,700 {\an7}There have been great studies about the disparate impact 1908 01:38:57,733 --> 01:39:02,333 {\an7}of what a profile online says about who you are. 1909 01:39:02,366 --> 01:39:06,133 {\an8}♪ 1910 01:39:06,166 --> 01:39:07,666 {\an8}LATANYA SWEENEY: I was the first 1911 01:39:07,700 --> 01:39:09,100 {\an1}African American women to get 1912 01:39:09,133 --> 01:39:11,966 {\an1}a PhD in computer science at M.I.T. 1913 01:39:14,166 --> 01:39:15,866 {\an1}So, I visit Harvard. 1914 01:39:15,900 --> 01:39:19,333 {\an1}I'm being interviewed there by a reporter, 1915 01:39:19,366 --> 01:39:25,566 {\an1}and he wants to see a particular paper that I had done before. 1916 01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:28,833 {\an1}So, I go over to my computer, 1917 01:39:28,866 --> 01:39:32,366 {\an1}I type in my name into Google's search bar, 1918 01:39:32,400 --> 01:39:38,133 {\an1}and upward pops this ad implying I had an arrest record. 1919 01:39:38,166 --> 01:39:39,309 He says, "Ah, forget that article. 1920 01:39:39,333 --> 01:39:41,300 {\an1}Tell me about the time you were arrested." 1921 01:39:41,333 --> 01:39:42,909 {\an1}I said, "Well, I have never been arrested." 1922 01:39:42,933 --> 01:39:44,276 {\an1}And he says, "Then why does your computer say 1923 01:39:44,300 --> 01:39:45,300 {\an1}you've been arrested?" 1924 01:39:45,333 --> 01:39:48,600 ♪ 1925 01:39:48,633 --> 01:39:51,733 {\an1}So I click on the ad, I go to the company to show him 1926 01:39:51,766 --> 01:39:54,100 {\an1}not only did I not have an arrest record, 1927 01:39:54,133 --> 01:39:56,400 but nobody with a "Latanya Sweeney" name 1928 01:39:56,433 --> 01:39:58,033 {\an1}had an arrest record. 1929 01:39:58,066 --> 01:40:00,400 {\an1}And he says, "Yeah, but why did it say that?" 1930 01:40:03,233 --> 01:40:04,766 {\an1}If you type in the name "Latanya" 1931 01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:06,900 {\an1}in the Google image search, 1932 01:40:06,933 --> 01:40:09,666 {\an1}you can see a lot Black faces staring back. 1933 01:40:09,700 --> 01:40:10,966 {\an1}Whereas if I type "Tanya," 1934 01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:13,366 {\an1}I see a lot of white faces staring back. 1935 01:40:13,400 --> 01:40:15,500 {\an1}So we get the idea that there are some first names 1936 01:40:15,533 --> 01:40:19,433 {\an1}given more often to Black babies than white babies. 1937 01:40:19,466 --> 01:40:20,700 {\an1}So, I then took a month 1938 01:40:20,733 --> 01:40:24,200 {\an1}and I researched almost 150,000 ad deliveries 1939 01:40:24,233 --> 01:40:27,466 {\an1}around the country, and I found that if your name was given 1940 01:40:27,500 --> 01:40:29,933 {\an1}more often to white babies than Black babies, 1941 01:40:29,966 --> 01:40:31,433 {\an1}the ad would be neutral. 1942 01:40:34,833 --> 01:40:37,933 {\an1}And if your first name was given more often 1943 01:40:37,966 --> 01:40:39,933 to Black babies than white babies, 1944 01:40:39,966 --> 01:40:42,133 {\an1}you were 80% likely to get an ad 1945 01:40:42,166 --> 01:40:43,633 implying you had an arrest record, 1946 01:40:43,666 --> 01:40:46,833 {\an1}even if no one with your name 1947 01:40:46,866 --> 01:40:50,366 {\an1}had any arrest record in their database. 1948 01:40:56,700 --> 01:41:00,600 NOBLE: One specific way that algorithms discriminate 1949 01:41:00,633 --> 01:41:04,733 {\an1}is that they just are too crude. 1950 01:41:04,766 --> 01:41:06,366 {\an1}The idea of if x, then y, 1951 01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:08,766 {\an1}if you have this type of name, 1952 01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:12,833 {\an1}it means you're automatically associated with criminality. 1953 01:41:12,866 --> 01:41:16,333 {\an1}That blunt, crude kind of association, 1954 01:41:16,366 --> 01:41:22,333 {\an1}that is the staple logic of how algorithms work. 1955 01:41:24,266 --> 01:41:28,433 {\an1}The types of bias that we find on the internet are often blunt. 1956 01:41:28,466 --> 01:41:34,233 {\an1}We are being profiled into similar groups of people 1957 01:41:34,266 --> 01:41:37,433 {\an1}who do the kinds of things that we might be doing, 1958 01:41:37,466 --> 01:41:41,633 {\an1}and we're clustered and sold as a cluster to advertisers. 1959 01:41:41,666 --> 01:41:44,500 {\an1}And so there's certainly a commercial bias. 1960 01:41:44,533 --> 01:41:47,433 {\an1}But we also have the bias of the people 1961 01:41:47,466 --> 01:41:49,333 {\an1}who design the technologies. 1962 01:41:49,366 --> 01:41:54,133 {\an8}♪ 1963 01:41:54,166 --> 01:41:59,133 {\an7}To think that technologies will be neutral or never have bias 1964 01:41:59,166 --> 01:42:04,066 {\an7}is really an improper framing. 1965 01:42:04,100 --> 01:42:06,533 {\an7}Of course there will always be a point of view 1966 01:42:06,566 --> 01:42:08,000 {\an7}in our technologies. 1967 01:42:08,033 --> 01:42:13,133 {\an7}The question is, is the point of view in service of oppression? 1968 01:42:13,166 --> 01:42:16,166 {\an8}Is it sexist? Is it racist? 1969 01:42:20,666 --> 01:42:23,900 SWEENEY: Here I was, a passionate believer in the future 1970 01:42:23,933 --> 01:42:27,466 {\an1}of equitable technology, and if the people, 1971 01:42:27,500 --> 01:42:30,200 {\an1}when they were hiring me at Harvard, had typed my name 1972 01:42:30,233 --> 01:42:33,433 {\an1}into the Google search bar and paid attention to this ad, 1973 01:42:33,466 --> 01:42:35,733 {\an1}it put me at a disadvantage. 1974 01:42:35,766 --> 01:42:38,500 {\an1}And not just me, but a whole group of Black people 1975 01:42:38,533 --> 01:42:40,466 would be placed at a disadvantage. 1976 01:42:40,500 --> 01:42:42,900 ♪ 1977 01:42:42,933 --> 01:42:45,600 {\an1}How could these biases of society be invading 1978 01:42:45,633 --> 01:42:48,500 {\an1}the technology that I really had grown to love? 1979 01:42:48,533 --> 01:42:51,300 {\an1}And now civil rights was up for grabs 1980 01:42:51,333 --> 01:42:55,100 {\an1}by what technology design allowed or didn't allow. 1981 01:42:57,300 --> 01:43:01,733 {\an1}Google's ad delivery system is really quite amazing. 1982 01:43:01,766 --> 01:43:05,233 {\an1}You click on a web page, and that web page has a slot 1983 01:43:05,266 --> 01:43:07,800 {\an1}that an ad is going to be delivered. 1984 01:43:07,833 --> 01:43:09,466 {\an1}And in that fraction of a second, 1985 01:43:09,500 --> 01:43:10,742 {\an1}while the page is being delivered, 1986 01:43:10,766 --> 01:43:14,533 {\an1}Google runs a fast digital auction. 1987 01:43:14,566 --> 01:43:15,900 {\an1}And in that digital auction, 1988 01:43:15,933 --> 01:43:18,566 {\an1}they decide which of competing ads are going to be the ad 1989 01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:20,333 {\an1}they're going to place right there. 1990 01:43:23,466 --> 01:43:24,800 {\an1}At first, the Google algorithm 1991 01:43:24,833 --> 01:43:27,233 {\an1}will choose one of them randomly, 1992 01:43:27,266 --> 01:43:30,066 {\an1}but if somebody clicks on one, then that one becomes 1993 01:43:30,100 --> 01:43:32,500 {\an1}weighted more often to be delivered. 1994 01:43:32,533 --> 01:43:37,533 {\an1}So, one way the discrimination in online ads could happen 1995 01:43:37,566 --> 01:43:40,266 {\an1}would've been that society would have been biased 1996 01:43:40,300 --> 01:43:42,800 {\an1}on which ads they clicked most often, 1997 01:43:42,833 --> 01:43:48,333 {\an1}and that this would've represent the bias of society itself. 1998 01:43:49,900 --> 01:43:54,733 {\an1}Our technology and our data sharing are so powerful 1999 01:43:54,766 --> 01:43:57,533 {\an1}that they are kind of like the new policy maker. 2000 01:43:57,566 --> 01:44:02,333 {\an1}We don't have oversight over these designs, but yet, 2001 01:44:02,366 --> 01:44:05,800 {\an1}how the technology is designed dictates the rules we live by. 2002 01:44:05,833 --> 01:44:10,966 {\an1}And this meant that we were moving from a democracy 2003 01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:12,700 {\an1}to a new kind of technocracy. 2004 01:44:12,733 --> 01:44:15,200 {\an1}I became the chief technology officer 2005 01:44:15,233 --> 01:44:16,900 {\an1}at the Federal Trade Commission. 2006 01:44:16,933 --> 01:44:19,566 {\an1}They're sort of the de facto police department 2007 01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:21,200 of the internet. 2008 01:44:21,233 --> 01:44:24,633 {\an1}One of the experiments that I had done while I was at the FTC 2009 01:44:24,666 --> 01:44:27,933 {\an1}showed that everyone's online experience is not the same. 2010 01:44:33,166 --> 01:44:38,200 ♪ 2011 01:44:56,100 --> 01:44:59,933 ♪ 2012 01:45:08,166 --> 01:45:11,666 What we lose with our hyper-reliance upon 2013 01:45:11,700 --> 01:45:16,033 {\an1}search technologies and social media is, 2014 01:45:16,066 --> 01:45:20,333 {\an1}the criteria for surfacing what's most important 2015 01:45:20,366 --> 01:45:23,766 {\an1}can be deeply, highly manipulated. 2016 01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:29,033 {\an1}One of the hardest case studies to write in my book 2017 01:45:29,066 --> 01:45:31,100 {\an1}was about Dylann Roof. 2018 01:45:31,133 --> 01:45:35,800 {\an1}He went online and he was trying to make sense 2019 01:45:35,833 --> 01:45:37,600 of the trial of George Zimmerman. 2020 01:45:37,633 --> 01:45:41,833 {\an8}And the first thing that I guess I can say, 2021 01:45:41,866 --> 01:45:43,466 {\an8}I would say woke me up, 2022 01:45:43,500 --> 01:45:45,733 you know, would be the Trayvon Martin case. 2023 01:45:45,766 --> 01:45:48,800 REPORTER: Trayvon Martin, an unarmed Black teenager, 2024 01:45:48,833 --> 01:45:51,300 {\an1}was shot down by a white neighborhood watchman 2025 01:45:51,333 --> 01:45:52,800 {\an1}who claimed self-defense. 2026 01:45:52,833 --> 01:45:56,066 {\an8}Eventually I decided to, you know, look his name up, 2027 01:45:56,100 --> 01:45:57,433 {\an8}just type him into Google, 2028 01:45:57,466 --> 01:45:58,933 {\an8}you know what I'm saying? 2029 01:45:58,966 --> 01:46:01,866 {\an8}For some reason, it made me type in the words 2030 01:46:01,900 --> 01:46:03,566 "Black on white crime." 2031 01:46:03,600 --> 01:46:08,366 NOBLE: We know from Dylann Roof's own words that the first site 2032 01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:11,133 {\an1}that he comes to is the Council of Conservative Citizens. 2033 01:46:11,166 --> 01:46:13,266 {\an1}The CCC is an organization 2034 01:46:13,300 --> 01:46:17,333 {\an1}that the Southern Poverty Law Center calls vehemently racist. 2035 01:46:17,366 --> 01:46:20,633 {\an8}And that's, that was it, ever since then. 2036 01:46:20,666 --> 01:46:22,700 NOBLE: Let's say he had been my student. 2037 01:46:22,733 --> 01:46:25,833 {\an1}I could've just immediately said, "Did you know that 2038 01:46:25,866 --> 01:46:28,166 {\an1}that phrase is kind of a racist red herring?" 2039 01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:33,266 {\an1}The FBI statistics show us that the majority of white people 2040 01:46:33,300 --> 01:46:36,500 {\an1}are actually killed by other white people. 2041 01:46:36,533 --> 01:46:39,700 {\an1}But instead, he goes to the internet and he finds the CCC, 2042 01:46:39,733 --> 01:46:43,100 {\an1}and he goes down a rabbit hole of white supremacist websites. 2043 01:46:43,133 --> 01:46:45,433 {\an7}Did you read a lot? Did you read books, 2044 01:46:45,466 --> 01:46:48,066 {\an7}or watch videos, or watch movies or YouTube, 2045 01:46:48,100 --> 01:46:49,133 {\an7}or anything like that 2046 01:46:49,166 --> 01:46:51,933 {\an7}specifically about that subject matter? 2047 01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:57,300 {\an8}No, it was pretty much just reading articles. 2048 01:46:57,333 --> 01:46:59,566 {\an7}Reading articles? Yeah. 2049 01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:01,042 {\an8}NOBLE: And we know that shortly thereafter, 2050 01:47:01,066 --> 01:47:05,233 {\an1}he goes into a church, murders nine African Americans, 2051 01:47:05,266 --> 01:47:08,800 {\an1}and says his intent is to start a race war. 2052 01:47:08,833 --> 01:47:12,300 ♪ 2053 01:47:14,000 --> 01:47:17,600 {\an7}This is not an atypical possibility. 2054 01:47:17,633 --> 01:47:21,300 {\an7}When you don't get a counterpoint to the query, 2055 01:47:21,333 --> 01:47:23,700 {\an7}you don't get Black studies scholarship, 2056 01:47:23,733 --> 01:47:27,033 {\an1}or FBI statistics, or anything that would reframe 2057 01:47:27,066 --> 01:47:30,166 {\an1}the very question that you're asking. 2058 01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:33,633 {\an1}This is an extreme case of acting upon 2059 01:47:33,666 --> 01:47:36,700 {\an1}white power radicalization, but this is not unlike 2060 01:47:36,733 --> 01:47:41,833 {\an1}things that are happening right now every day in search engines, 2061 01:47:41,866 --> 01:47:44,900 {\an1}on Facebook, on Twitter, in Gab. 2062 01:47:44,933 --> 01:47:47,666 {\an1}People are being targeted and radicalized 2063 01:47:47,700 --> 01:47:50,500 {\an1}in very dangerous ways. 2064 01:47:50,533 --> 01:47:54,433 {\an1}This is what is at stake when people are so susceptible 2065 01:47:54,466 --> 01:47:59,466 {\an1}to disinformation, hate speech, hate propaganda in our society. 2066 01:47:59,500 --> 01:48:04,400 ♪ 2067 01:48:04,433 --> 01:48:07,933 SWEENEY: Racism itself can't be solved by technology. 2068 01:48:07,966 --> 01:48:10,766 {\an1}The question is, to what extent can we make sure technology 2069 01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:12,566 {\an1}doesn't perpetuate it, 2070 01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:15,333 {\an1}doesn't allow harms to be made because of it? 2071 01:48:15,366 --> 01:48:21,466 {\an1}We need a diverse and inclusive community in the design stage, 2072 01:48:21,500 --> 01:48:24,766 in the marketing and business stage, 2073 01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:28,300 {\an1}in the regulatory and journal stages, as well. 2074 01:48:31,833 --> 01:48:35,266 NOBLE: I am really interested in solutions. 2075 01:48:35,300 --> 01:48:37,433 {\an1}It's easy to talk about the problems, 2076 01:48:37,466 --> 01:48:40,466 {\an1}and it's painful, also, to talk about the problems. 2077 01:48:40,500 --> 01:48:43,366 {\an1}But that pain and that struggle should lead us 2078 01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:46,633 {\an1}to thinking about alternatives. 2079 01:48:46,666 --> 01:48:48,509 {\an1}Those are the kind of things that I like to talk to 2080 01:48:48,533 --> 01:48:51,366 {\an1}other information professionals and researchers 2081 01:48:51,400 --> 01:48:53,133 {\an1}and librarians about. 2082 01:48:55,533 --> 01:48:57,433 {\an1}As a person who has a name 2083 01:48:57,466 --> 01:48:58,809 {\an1}that doesn't sound like Jennifer, right? 2084 01:48:58,833 --> 01:49:00,566 {\an1}Or Sarah, or something. 2085 01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:03,066 {\an1}That paper made the difference for me, 2086 01:49:03,100 --> 01:49:05,366 {\an1}because I was just this grad student, 2087 01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:08,400 {\an1}and you were this esteemed Harvard professor, 2088 01:49:08,433 --> 01:49:10,266 {\an1}and you were having these experiences, too. 2089 01:49:10,300 --> 01:49:13,233 {\an1}When I think about the, like, the, the foundations 2090 01:49:13,266 --> 01:49:14,800 {\an1}of something like ethical A.I., 2091 01:49:14,833 --> 01:49:18,800 I go back to you in that early paper. 2092 01:49:18,833 --> 01:49:20,333 {\an1}I think what I feel most hopeful about 2093 01:49:20,366 --> 01:49:24,666 {\an1}is that there's this new cottage industry called ethical A.I., 2094 01:49:24,700 --> 01:49:28,333 {\an1}and I know that our work is profoundly tied to that. 2095 01:49:28,366 --> 01:49:30,966 {\an1}But on another level, I feel like 2096 01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:33,733 {\an1}these predictive technologies are so much more ubiquitous 2097 01:49:33,766 --> 01:49:35,866 {\an1}than they were ten years ago. 2098 01:49:35,900 --> 01:49:40,333 {\an1}You know, what I find really painful is that 2099 01:49:40,366 --> 01:49:43,100 {\an1}as we move forward, it's harder to track. 2100 01:49:43,133 --> 01:49:44,666 {\an1}One thing that becomes clear is, 2101 01:49:44,700 --> 01:49:47,800 {\an1}we could use a heck of a lot more transparency. 2102 01:49:47,833 --> 01:49:50,600 {\an1}As a computer scientist, my vision 2103 01:49:50,633 --> 01:49:53,200 {\an1}is, I want society to enjoy the benefits 2104 01:49:53,233 --> 01:49:56,666 {\an1}of all these new technologies without these problems. 2105 01:49:56,700 --> 01:49:59,300 {\an1}Technology doesn't have to be made this way. 2106 01:49:59,333 --> 01:50:01,033 NOBLE: That's right, that's right. 2107 01:50:01,066 --> 01:50:04,000 {\an1}I see so many more women and girls of color 2108 01:50:04,033 --> 01:50:06,400 {\an1}interested in these conversations, 2109 01:50:06,433 --> 01:50:11,166 {\an1}and one of the things that I also see is how we see things 2110 01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:13,500 {\an1}because we ask different questions 2111 01:50:13,533 --> 01:50:14,966 {\an1}based on our lived experiences. 2112 01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:17,800 {\an1}Just the fact that the questions are being raised 2113 01:50:17,833 --> 01:50:21,233 {\an1}means that the space is less hostile, 2114 01:50:21,266 --> 01:50:23,666 {\an1}means there's an opportunity for your voice. 2115 01:50:23,700 --> 01:50:25,500 {\an1}And, and the other thing 2116 01:50:25,533 --> 01:50:27,533 {\an1}that's really important about this work, 2117 01:50:27,566 --> 01:50:29,800 {\an1}it means that it's a new kind of way of thinking 2118 01:50:29,833 --> 01:50:31,233 {\an1}about computer science. 2119 01:50:31,266 --> 01:50:35,600 {\an1}It's in this conversation with you that I see a future. 2120 01:50:35,633 --> 01:50:40,833 {\an1}I'm hopeful because it's not one isolated paper, 2121 01:50:40,866 --> 01:50:42,900 {\an1}but in fact, it's a, it's a movement 2122 01:50:42,933 --> 01:50:45,900 {\an1}toward asking the right questions, exposing 2123 01:50:45,933 --> 01:50:48,133 {\an1}the right unforeseen consequences, 2124 01:50:48,166 --> 01:50:50,766 {\an1}and pushing this forward towards a solution. 2125 01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:52,766 ♪ 2126 01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:58,600 NOBLE: Some questions cannot be answered instantly. 2127 01:50:58,633 --> 01:51:01,133 {\an1}Some issues we're dealing with in society, 2128 01:51:01,166 --> 01:51:04,333 we need time and we need discussion. 2129 01:51:06,866 --> 01:51:10,066 {\an1}How could we look for new logics and new metaphors 2130 01:51:10,100 --> 01:51:13,833 {\an1}and new ways to get a bigger picture? 2131 01:51:13,866 --> 01:51:16,100 {\an1}Maybe we could see when we do that query 2132 01:51:16,133 --> 01:51:19,000 {\an1}that that's just nothing but propaganda, 2133 01:51:19,033 --> 01:51:20,333 {\an1}and we could even see 2134 01:51:20,366 --> 01:51:23,133 {\an1}the sources of the disinformation farms. 2135 01:51:23,166 --> 01:51:25,866 {\an1}Maybe we could see the financial backers. 2136 01:51:25,900 --> 01:51:27,933 {\an1}There's a lot of ways that we could reimagine 2137 01:51:27,966 --> 01:51:30,200 {\an1}our information landscape. 2138 01:51:30,233 --> 01:51:33,900 {\an1}So, I do feel like there is some hope. 2139 01:51:33,933 --> 01:51:36,433 ♪ 2140 01:51:59,033 --> 01:52:04,933 {\an8}♪ 2141 01:52:14,166 --> 01:52:18,300 {\an8}ANNOUNCER: To order this program on DVD, visit ShopPBS 2142 01:52:18,333 --> 01:52:21,433 {\an7}or call 1-800-PLAY-PBS. 2143 01:52:21,466 --> 01:52:24,133 {\an7}Episodes of "NOVA" are available with Passport. 2144 01:52:24,166 --> 01:52:27,966 {\an7}"NOVA" is also available on Amazon Prime Video. 2145 01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:31,866 {\an8}♪