1 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,640 Tonight on Panorama... 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,960 Forgive us all that is past... 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,120 The Church of England's broken promises on race and racism... 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,760 There's a culture of fear where people pretend to be OK, 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,960 but they're really battling. 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,000 It makes you feel invisible. 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,240 It makes you feel absolutely powerless. 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,840 We speak to clergy claiming discrimination... 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,200 Why would you, on a letter which is asking for a job 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:40,440 opportunity, why would you draw attention to my ethnicity? 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:45,160 The Church's former top advisor on race relations... 12 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:47,520 Based on the racial reckoning of the church, I'm afraid 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,120 they've abysmally failed - and it's not fit for purpose. 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,680 ..and the man who's been brought in to help change things... 15 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,320 The issue isn't so much that we haven't talked about it enough - 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,760 the issue is that we haven't acted upon it enough. 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,960 ..but the church has been here before... 18 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,720 I mean, look, that does shame the church, doesn't it? 19 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:10,200 Well, it... Yes, it does. 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,360 So, will it finally act, and practice what it preaches? 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,480 I tried my very best for the Church of England, I couldn't... 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,160 I can only be me. 23 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,520 Michelle Delves is a junior vicar here at All Saints 24 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,280 Church in Hartlepool. 25 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,000 She's mixed race, and working class. 26 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,480 She's happy now. 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,560 But when she started out, she says she was shocked by the lack 28 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:56,800 of diversity in the church. 29 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:03,200 It's mainly male and female, middle and upper class. 30 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,440 I got there, and I've just never felt as black and poor. 31 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,160 I felt like I'd landed on an alien planet. 32 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,560 She enrolled at Cranmer Hall in Durham in 2016. 33 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,400 It's a bible college that's been training students 34 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,640 for more than a century. 35 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:25,080 Only one in ten accepted for training into the Church 36 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,680 of England are from ethnic minority backgrounds. 37 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,120 I often had things I wanted to say or to ask and, you know, 38 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,000 I would sit with my hand up for a while and then 39 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,000 just put it down. 40 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,440 There's almost, like, there's a covert... 41 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,640 It's a silent threat. 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,320 Growing up in Bradford in the 80s, racism was a fact 43 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:44,360 of life for Michelle. 44 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,800 I've had the most horrible things said to me but, 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,680 it was very in my face and I could deal with that. 46 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,320 The thing that really scares the pants off me about this 47 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,160 institutional racism is that you don't know it's 48 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:55,280 happening to you. 49 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,360 A few months into her studies, she even tried 50 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,080 changing her appearance. 51 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,960 I'd stopped wearing wraps on my head, I'd kind of tone down 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,880 the colours that I wore. 53 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:11,120 So, it's not that anybody's saying, "You've got to take your wrap 54 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:14,520 off your head," but you start to kind of accommodate this thing. 55 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,880 She says her growing sense of isolation was made worse 56 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,920 by a lack of understanding within the Church. 57 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:20,960 All through those two years of training, you know, 58 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,680 people kept saying, "Oh, play the game." 59 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,320 So, you go to your tutorial, which is supposed to be 60 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,440 where you air these things, and you try and air them honestly - 61 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,600 and straightaway it's like, "Oh, you need to deal 62 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:31,680 with your emotions." 63 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,440 Instead of being heard, I felt I was managed. 64 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,200 Michelle says she told friends and lecturers 65 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,320 at the college how she felt, but at the time was advised not 66 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,800 to make a formal complaint as it would go on her record. 67 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,680 But, after leaving college, she took her complaint to the very top. 68 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,040 I wrote to the Archbishop of Canterbury because I just 69 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:57,280 felt I was so tired and nobody was listening. 70 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,360 This is who I am, and I can't tell you how heartbreaking 71 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,560 it is when you feel like you're coming close to losing that - 72 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,920 not because you can't do it, but because other people 73 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,200 think you can't. 74 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:13,160 In response to her note, the Archbishop's office told 75 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,520 Michelle of their "anger and sorrow" on hearing about her "experiences", 76 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,840 saying, "much more needs to be done about institutional racism 77 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:22,080 in the Church". 78 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,320 Cranmer Hall told Panorama... 79 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,800 It says because it "received no formal complaint from this 80 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,920 student" at the time, it was "not able to 81 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:38,960 address the allegations". 82 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,840 It says it's "keen, if Michelle would be willing, to explore these 83 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:46,840 concerns thoroughly." 84 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:52,120 # Jesus is here...# 85 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:58,000 The Church of England welcomes more than 800,000 worshippers every week. 86 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,920 Of the clergy who lead them, only one in 25 is from an ethnic 87 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,960 minority background. 88 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,440 For seven years, Dr Elizabeth Henry was the Church's top 89 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:16,720 advisor on race relations. 90 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:23,280 Is the church for everyone? 91 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:26,840 It should be, shouldn't it? 92 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:29,200 Because of the teachings of Christianity, there is one body 93 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,360 and we are all members of the one body. 94 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,280 She was so disillusioned, last year she quit. 95 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:38,480 I felt frustrated by the lack of progress with issues of racism. 96 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,120 I wanted to start to put my energy and my focus where I felt that 97 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,440 I could genuinely and truly make a difference. 98 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,800 Elizabeth continues to support minority and ethnic clergy. 99 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,440 Like this junior vicar, who doesn't want to reveal her identity 100 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,720 because she fears losing her job. 101 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,000 I felt trapped, and I just remember counting down 102 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,880 the minutes and seconds, hoping that I was going to get out. 103 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,720 When she was at bible college, she says she was racially abused 104 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,360 in class by a white student. 105 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,800 I was told to make a complaint. 106 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,760 I made a complaint and I was told to turn the other cheek. 107 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,200 How did that make you feel? 108 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:21,720 Devastated. 109 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:26,080 Silenced. 110 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,400 I realised I was on my own, and that what had happened 111 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,640 they were going to do nothing with it. 112 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,360 Elizabeth has counselled many others, who say even 113 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:44,600 complaining about racist abuse carries its own risks. 114 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,160 The issue that came up again and again and again was the feeling 115 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,160 that they were not safe within the church. 116 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,400 It wasn't safe to complain. 117 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,800 That in taking that complaint of racism further, that that 118 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:00,920 will then somehow mark them out as being a troublemaker. 119 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,240 Professor Robert Beckford has spent a lifetime studying 120 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,760 issues of faith and race. 121 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,960 He says the Church's complaints system needs a complete overhaul. 122 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,280 The situation on complaints is an absolute mess. 123 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,040 Clergy do not know who the complaints are going to, 124 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,080 there is not one single system. 125 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,920 And as a consequence of that, people don't know how their complaints 126 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,200 are going to be dealt with. 127 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,640 The situation is archaic, it's out of date, and it's 128 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,640 not fit for purpose. 129 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,000 Meet Alwyn Pereira, originally from Kenya. 130 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,640 When he finished his training as a junior vicar in 2015, 131 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,560 he spent two long years trying to find a job. 132 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,720 It was really difficult. 133 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,160 I couldn't work out why I wasn't getting a job. 134 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,920 You kind of wonder how can I improve, what can I do 135 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:02,840 to get my application up there, and I fired off an email 136 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,120 to the bishop saying, "My applications are not working, 137 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:10,400 what's wrong, can you help me?" 138 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,040 Finally in August 2017, Alwyn got a job interview. 139 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,920 After all the knock-backs, he was determined to succeed 140 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:23,200 and asked to see a copy of his personal record. 141 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,320 The Church calls it a Blue File. 142 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,160 Every member of the clergy has a blue file. 143 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,040 And this blue file contains information about you from just 144 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:36,000 about anyone you come into contact with. 145 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,880 The Church says any comments should preferably be 146 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,760 made with the agreement of the person concerned. 147 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,360 Now this file follows you wherever you go and it can 148 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,360 come back to haunt you. 149 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,240 When Alwyn got his file, he found a letter that no-one had 150 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,120 told him anything about. 151 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,520 It was from Mike Hill, Bishop of Bristol, who'd 152 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,280 overseen his training. 153 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:14,600 It started out saying, first of all, that I was Sri Lankan. 154 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,680 And then it made this critical statement in which it said: 155 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:24,920 "All people from the Indian subcontinent, like Alwyn, 156 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:30,240 have issues around communications, around clarity and truth." 157 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:38,040 That was like a blow to my heart, that you could describe 158 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,720 and denigrate an entire group of people, saying that they 159 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,280 are, effectively, liars. 160 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,360 That, to me, was utterly shocking. 161 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,560 So, you can't believe any of this. 162 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:54,560 The thing is you're not even Sri Lankan. 163 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:58,480 That's right and it's immaterial of where I'm from, 164 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,320 because why would you draw attention to my ethnicity? 165 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,960 Alwyn, too, wrote to the Archbishop of Canterbury, who forwarded his 166 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,600 letter to another bishop. 167 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,640 But for months the matter still wasn't dealt with. 168 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,320 I lodged a complaint - expecting my complaint 169 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,360 to be taken seriously, to be looked into. 170 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,440 And I found that nothing like that happened. 171 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,320 It was more of a shooing away. 172 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,480 It was kicked into the long grass. 173 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,880 My case demonstrated that there isn't a proper 174 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,200 process or practice. 175 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,640 Angry and frustrated, he took the Bristol Diocese 176 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,280 to an employment tribunal, and asked the Church for any extra 177 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,280 information it held on him. 178 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:46,600 They handed over emails. 179 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,040 The judge ruled, though, that too much time had 180 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,920 passed since the emails and letters were sent. 181 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,120 But he agreed some of them could "infer discrimination". 182 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,480 One, from another bishop, was about a job Alwyn had 183 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,040 been turned down for. 184 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,240 It was rejected on the basis of "cultural eccentricities." 185 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:04,280 So, racism? 186 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:05,280 Racism. 187 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,320 No question about that? 188 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,800 No question, the actual email said: "Alwyn, has more skills, 189 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,720 "more expertise than some of the people we are shortlisting, 190 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,200 "and getting interviewed." 191 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,640 But my applications were resisted on a racist criteria. 192 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,200 Armed now with the emails and the letter, Alwyn 193 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,080 took his complaint to a Church disciplinary tribunal, that deals 194 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:35,120 with allegations of serious misconduct against clergy. 195 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:40,040 At the tribunal, Bishop Hill admitted racial stereotyping. 196 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,440 Although he'd already retired, he was formally rebuked and ordered 197 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,720 to attend unconscious bias training. 198 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,960 Unconscious bias training for a year of Allwyn's life, 199 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,600 lost in legal battles and recrimination, fear 200 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:56,840 that his career is over? 201 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,360 One wonders if that sanction really is enough 202 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,000 to absolve the original sin. 203 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,880 Bishop Hill apologised, saying any racism was unintentional. 204 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,280 Finally, Alwyn got a job as a Vicar in Hampshire. 205 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:15,480 He still feels let down by the system. 206 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,040 I don't feel I've had justice. 207 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,720 That's probably the biggest factor - that this is the Church. 208 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,960 This is the place that has a moral duty, on behalf of the whole nation. 209 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:40,160 The Diocese of Bristol says... 210 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,720 Peterson Feital, who's Brazilian, had high hopes for his career 211 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,640 when he moved to London in 2011. 212 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,320 He was hired as a trainee vicar by a church that had a mainly white, 213 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,760 middle class congregation. 214 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,600 His task was to reach out to diverse communities who don't 215 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,160 normally attend church. 216 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,800 The vicar who gave me the job, he said, "You are 217 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:16,880 everything we need." 218 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,920 And by that he meant: we need energy. 219 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:24,240 We need you to be you. 220 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,640 Peterson qualified as a vicar and for a couple of years he thrived. 221 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,160 I know it's not my day, but I feel you have to see my face 222 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,040 from time to time... 223 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,960 But when the vicar who hired him left, he says everything changed 224 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,680 with the arrival of a new boss. 225 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:44,520 Things began to be said to me in a one-to-one situation, 226 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,680 such as, "Your English is not very good. 227 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,320 "I don't like your preaching, and you are too Brazilian 228 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,960 "in your compassion - you're not very coherent." 229 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,840 People of my kind, of my colour, "is just not clever enough." 230 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,440 So, you are convinced it's racism? 231 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,960 Well, I have no other way. 232 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:12,160 How am I supposed to translate those things said to me, to my face? 233 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,400 Over time, Peterson says, things got worse... 234 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,640 One morning, my new boss comes into my office 235 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,120 and he looks very agitated, and he looks straight 236 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,960 into my eyes and says, "Peterson, you've got to find a job 237 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,600 with people of your kind." 238 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,640 And then he pauses, and he said this most remarkable thing. 239 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,920 "If London diocese is going to give you a job, it's going to be 240 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,840 for a diversity show. 241 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,720 They're going to give you it for a short period of time 242 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,280 and they're going to drop you like we always do". 243 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,920 And then he left. 244 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,760 Shut the door behind me, I then cried. 245 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:56,040 That's how it was. 246 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,400 Peterson repeatedly complained to senior staff 247 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:01,960 at the London Diocese about the bullying and racism 248 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,800 he says he was experiencing. 249 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:11,080 And then I'm beginning to be told, "Keep your head down." 250 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,800 "Because no-one is going to be able to prove there is any racism. 251 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,160 "No-one is going to really believe you, and if you are going to create 252 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,120 "any problem, you're not going to get a job anywhere. 253 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,080 I tried to change my personality for them. 254 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,120 I did. 255 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:28,960 And I'm ashamed of it. 256 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,480 I tried to stand in the pulpit so many times and speak English 257 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,280 in a way that would please them, to speak sermons, to, you know, 258 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,480 do the most eloquent, 259 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,520 "white" as I could, 260 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:43,760 because I loved them. 261 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,440 But, I couldn't. 262 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:46,480 Right? 263 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:47,520 I just couldn't. 264 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,400 I tried my very best for the Church of England, I couldn't. 265 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,480 I can only be me. 266 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,600 The me that I am, they didn't want it. 267 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,440 After ten years in the Church of England, Peterson's 268 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,840 contract wasn't renewed and he was made redundant. 269 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:08,040 He left with a payment of just £2,000. 270 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,400 Now, he's out of work, and claiming benefits. 271 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,960 The Diocese of London says it's appalled 272 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,520 at what Peterson has experienced. 273 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,040 It says it's spoken with Peterson regarding the process 274 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:27,240 for bringing formal complaints against those involved. 275 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,320 Making a complaint about racism in any organisation is daunting. 276 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,680 Elizabeth Henry continues to support church staff going through formal 277 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,280 complaints processes. 278 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,920 One case in particular sticks in her mind. 279 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,880 A really shocking incident was a young black man who received 280 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,160 a picture of a banana. 281 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,280 But that banana had his head superimposed upon it - 282 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,640 and underneath it said "Bananaman". 283 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,800 That is a deeply offensive and deeply racist image. 284 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,440 He took it to HR, and he did file a grievance. 285 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:11,120 And the decision was that it wasn't racist. 286 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,840 But that wasn't the end of the story, Elizabeth says 287 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,240 the young man finally settled his case - but with 288 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,320 a gagging clause attached. 289 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,720 That person left, and he received a very small compensation, 290 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,920 however he was forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement. 291 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,440 I'm aware of others who've complained of racism and they too 292 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,640 have received compensation, and that's been contingent on them 293 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,280 signing a non-disclosure agreement. 294 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,360 And that doesn't deal with the issue of racism. 295 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:42,600 That buys silence. 296 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,000 The Church told Panorama that, whilst it can't comment 297 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,160 on individual cases, "Any behaviour of the sort described 298 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,720 by Dr Henry is unacceptable. 299 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:58,760 Confidentiality agreements 300 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,120 are for use only in exceptional circumstances, where open processes 301 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:06,360 may not have reached resolution." 302 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,640 It says, "Everyone has a right to be treated with dignity and respect, 303 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,000 free from bullying and harassment on the grounds of race, 304 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,640 gender or any other reason". 305 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,000 Last year, the Church itself could no longer stay silent. 306 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,360 Elizabeth Henry was sitting directly behind the Archbishop of Canterbury 307 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,760 when he admitted to the Church's ruling body that the 308 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,320 Church had failed. 309 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,800 There is no doubt when we look at our own church that we are still 310 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,120 deeply, institutionally racist. 311 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,000 Let's just be clear about that, it was said to the College 312 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,160 of Bishops last year and it's true. 313 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,640 Three months later, in the wake of George Floyd's death, 314 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,040 Church leaders across the country took the knee to highlight 315 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,680 injustice in society. 316 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,520 Amongst them, the Bishop of Leicester. 317 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,360 He's one of 42 Senior Bishops in England. 318 00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:01,440 Only one of them is from a minority ethnic background. 319 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,200 It's almost like, "OK so the job's done." 320 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,160 But the confession, it's not a new phenomenon, or a new awakening 321 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,280 or a new enlightenment in the Church. 322 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,480 For the Church to survive, the Church needs to reimagine itself. 323 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,240 That's exactly what the Church says it's doing. 324 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,480 It's set up an anti-racism taskforce to "ensure greater equality". 325 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,600 One of its chairs is the Vicar of St Nics in Durham, Arun Arora. 326 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,440 A former employment lawyer, he's held senior positions 327 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,480 within the church. 328 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,560 I've experienced my fair share of... 329 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,520 Slights and humiliations. 330 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,800 Being invited to a conference and pulling up outside 331 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:55,640 and being told that I wasn't allowed to go there to pick up my 332 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,920 client, as a taxi driver. 333 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,200 Taxi driver? 334 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,120 Being asked by another priest, actually, whether I 335 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,200 was his taxi driver. 336 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,360 Driving up to the office where I was director 337 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,240 of communications with my keys in my hand - to be asked 338 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,520 by somebody in reception, if I was her taxi driver. 339 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,360 It happens once and you can say, "Oh, OK, you know, 340 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:18,480 that's a funny story." 341 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,840 It happens twice, you begin to go, "What is this?" 342 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,480 And it happens a third time, then you begin to think, 343 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,640 "What is wrong here?" 344 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,800 There's been a lot of talk about racism within the Church. 345 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,480 The issue isn't so much that we haven't talked about it 346 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,080 enough, the issue is that we haven't acted upon it enough. 347 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,480 Is this then a watershed moment? 348 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:39,760 It has the potential... 349 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,400 To ask of ourselves, why have we failed? 350 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:48,480 Why have we failed to implement those actions? 351 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,520 This isn't the first time the Church has attempted 352 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,880 to address issues of race. 353 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,520 I can remember in 1985 when the church produced the Faith 354 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:58,920 in the City document. 355 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,080 It demanded urgent action. 356 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,880 And that was 35 years ago. 357 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,760 It's sobering looking back at all the words the Church has 358 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,280 written about racism over 35 years. 359 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:19,440 Report after report - more than 20 of them. 360 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,600 This is Faith in the City - it talks about "the alienation 361 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,680 experienced by black people in the Church of England." 362 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:32,760 The Passing Winter. 363 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,000 "Congregations need to be familiar with minority ethnic people 364 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,600 exercising leadership skills within the Church, otherwise 365 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,880 the Church will be regarded as having a hidden racist agenda". 366 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,240 And this is An Amazing Journey - "Dioceses should work 367 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,480 at implementing recommendations and not just tinker at the edges." 368 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,720 If these reports had been implemented, would we still need 369 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,960 a task force in 2021? 370 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,920 The Archbishop of York is second in command of the Church of England. 371 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,960 He helped set up the taskforce and is embarrassed by the lack 372 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,080 of action, despite all the previous inquiries, some of 373 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:19,280 which he took part in. 374 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:20,480 I 375 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:20,680 I mean, 376 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,720 I mean, look... 377 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:25,720 Yeah. 378 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,640 You don't need to tell me. 379 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,640 But, that does shame the church, doesn't it? 380 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:33,800 Well, it, yes, it does. 381 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,960 As I say, I'm, I'm somebody who wrote those reports, some of them. 382 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:37,960 Um... 383 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,800 But, Archbishop, did you say to yourself after you wrote these 384 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,040 reports and you didn't see them implemented, this is not 385 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,680 the place for me? 386 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,760 Did you reflect on any of that when none of this was implemented? 387 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,520 Well, some of it has been implemented. 388 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:51,560 Some of it has. 389 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:52,760 But some of it hasn't. 390 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,840 I'm not sitting here to defend the Church's record. 391 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,040 I want to make this change. 392 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,080 It is simply the case that UK ME people are underrepresented 393 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,160 and disadvantaged in many of the structures and systems 394 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,080 of our church, and that has a terrible knock-on for our mission 395 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:10,240 in the wider communities we serve. 396 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,960 I don't believe the Church of England is full of racists, 397 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,560 I believe most people in the Church of England want to 398 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,680 make these changes. 399 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,080 We have not found the way of doing that yet. 400 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,840 Which is what is so appalling about the situation. 401 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,760 This isn't the British Army, or the BBC, or the Metropolitan Police. 402 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,880 This is the Church of England. 403 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,320 But it doesn't mean to say the whole Church of England is wrong. 404 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,760 It means we've got some things we need to address, 405 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,320 and they're really important, and we're going to address them. 406 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,080 The Church faces an existential crisis. 407 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:52,280 Sonic 408 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:52,480 Sonic market 409 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:52,720 Sonic market the 410 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:53,320 Sonic market the vast 411 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,720 Sonic market the vast majority 412 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:54,920 Sonic market the vast majority attending 413 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:55,120 Sonic market the vast majority attending on 414 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:55,360 Sonic market the vast majority attending on Sunday 415 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,280 Sonic market the vast majority attending on Sunday are 416 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:57,440 Sonic market the vast majority attending on Sunday are white 417 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:57,800 Sonic market the vast majority attending on Sunday are white and 418 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:57,880 attending on Sunday are white and elderly. 419 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:58,080 attending on Sunday are white and elderly. Quite 420 00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:58,360 attending on Sunday are white and elderly. Quite frankly, 421 00:23:58,360 --> 00:23:58,480 attending on Sunday are white and elderly. Quite frankly, they 422 00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:58,680 attending on Sunday are white and elderly. Quite frankly, they won't 423 00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,920 elderly. Quite frankly, they won't be 424 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:00,080 elderly. Quite frankly, they won't be around 425 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:00,280 elderly. Quite frankly, they won't be around much 426 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,120 elderly. Quite frankly, they won't be around much longer. 427 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,440 But we have a lot of black and brown people also going to church 428 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,400 who want to be part of the Church's future and its ministry. 429 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,440 And I think appointing black or brown bishops go a long way 430 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,480 to showing these people that they matter. 431 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,560 And this is what I understand the taskforce is going to say. 432 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:27,640 They will recommend quotas for ethnic minority clergy 433 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,080 and non-white candidates for every top job - and overseeing 434 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,400 it all, they'll call for a Racial Justice Unit. 435 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,560 With this, the Church does seem to recognise that 436 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:35,920 there's a lot to be done. 437 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:41,240 One major reason is its own numbers. 438 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,200 In the last decade alone, Church attendance has 439 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,880 gone down by around 20%. 440 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,600 This is Bromyard in rural Herefordshire. 441 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,840 Here, a new vicar joined five years ago and the parish is thriving. 442 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,080 We just think, what she's brought to the Church 443 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,040 has been so refreshing, new, vibrant, and really 444 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:14,320 what the Church is about. 445 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,600 It is quite refreshing to have her. 446 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,680 And I feel that God does work through Kina, 447 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,920 and you can sense that. 448 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,080 Kina Robertshaw came to the UK from Zambia. 449 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,080 If the Church is going to thrive, should it perhaps be looking to 450 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,280 learn from communities like these? 451 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,560 I have never experienced any animosity from the congregation. 452 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,480 It's interesting that one time I did a funeral for this 453 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,320 family and, bless this man, he just came and walked towards me, 454 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,960 then he said, "Little did I know that one day it was going to be 455 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,280 a black person doing the funeral for my mother." 456 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,880 So he just came and said thank you for doing my mother's funeral. 457 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,720 Despite the fact 50 years ago when they saw a black person, 458 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,960 they just shut the door. 459 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,520 Well, you've got a Norman church in rural England. 460 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,680 Yet what's going on inside that building is a very modern concept. 461 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,880 It's diversity, it's multiculturalism. 462 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,320 It's a woman of colour, who is the Vicar, ministering 463 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,040 to a predominantly white parish. 464 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,240 But even Kina had been told, during her training, 465 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,440 that she wasn't the right material for the job. 466 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,800 The person who was helping me, to see if I can be a Vicar, 467 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,240 said this to me, "Well, Kina, I really can't seem 468 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,480 to see how, you know, where you would fit." 469 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:45,560 She even said, 470 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,560 "Oh, because of your spirituality, your background, your 471 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,880 colour, or whatever - I don't think you'll ever feel 472 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,640 at home in the Church of England." 473 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,440 Kina wouldn't accept that she didn't fit in, 474 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,720 and wouldn't give up. 475 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,640 She feels, though, that until the leadership changes, 476 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,000 nothing will really change. 477 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,840 The challenge is the Church of England, the leaders. 478 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:08,120 How come we don't have representatives in leadership 479 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,800 of black people, people of, you know, Asian or other ethnicity? 480 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:18,880 Why aren't we seeing more of that? 481 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,160 What is the future for the church? 482 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,760 I don't know if there is, because based on the racial 483 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,840 reckoning of the church, I'm afraid they've abysmally failed. 484 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,120 and it's not fit for purpose. 485 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:35,720 A tough assessment, but one perhaps that some in the Church 486 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,200 itself now acknowledge. 487 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,040 It's told Panorama, "The Bible teaches that we're all made in God's 488 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,080 image and all one Christ. 489 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,960 We must reject the sin of racism and now make urgent changes 490 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:53,200 so all God's people are welcome and can flourish in the Church." 491 00:27:55,120 --> 00:28:00,320 But can it really deliver on these promises? 492 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,640 I think we need to recognise that the Church is a 493 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,800 fractured institution. 494 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,880 It's a fallen and broken institution - made up of fallen and broken 495 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,200 individuals just like me. 496 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,280 That there comes a time when apathy and complacency will not cut it any 497 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,920 more and that a time arrives for vigorous and positive action. 498 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:31,120 That time is now.