>> Translator: WHERE DO AN ESTIMATED 11 MILLION RUSSIANS GET STRAIGHT OBJECTIVE NEWS? FROM RADIO FREE EUROPE.
[ SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH ] THE U.S. GOVERNMENT-FUNDED COLD WAR RELIC IS AS RELEVANT AS IT'S EVER BEEN.
WITH REPORTERS ON THE FRONT LINES, IT'S RUN FROM PRAGUE, AND EMPLOYS JOURNALISTS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.
DO ALL OF YOU EXPECT TO RETURN TO RUSSIA? >> NOT BEFORE PUTIN DIES, I THINK.
>>> LAST MONTH, THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD AGREED TO SAVE NATURE FROM MASS EXTINCTION. BUT THE U.N. HAD THIS MEETING IN
2010, AND NOT ONE GOAL WAS MET. LEADING BIOLOGISTS WARN THAT TIME IS RUNNING OUT TO SLOW THE RATE OF EXTINCTION AROUND THE
GLOBE. >> WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY I AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF MY COLLEAGUES THINK WE'VE HAD IT,
THAT THE NEXT FEW DECADES WILL BE THE END OF THE KIND OF CIVILIZATION WE'RE USED TO. >>> IF YOU DIET, YOU LOSE
WEIGHT, RIGHT? >> THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF OBESITY IS GENETICS. THAT MEANS IF YOU ARE BORN TO
PARENTS THAT HAVE OBESITY, YOU HAVE A 50 TO 85% LIKELIHOOD OF HAVING THE DISEASE YOURSELF, EVEN WITH OPTIMAL DIET,
EXERCISE, SLEEP MANAGEMENT, STRESS MANAGEMENT. SO WHEN PEOPLE SEE FAMILIES THAT HAVE OBESITY, THE ASSUMPTION IS,
UGH, WHAT ARE THEY FEEDING THOSE KIDS? >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. >> I'M JON WERTHEIM. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.
THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT ON "60 MINUTES." >>> AMERICANS FAMILIAR WITH RADIO FREE EUROPE AND RADIO
LIBERTY MIGHT CONSIDER THEM COLD WAR RELICS, VESTIGES OF A TIME WHEN BROADCASTING STRAIGHT NEWS BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN WAS
CONSIDERED KEY TO PROMOTING DEMOCRACY. BUT WITH A NEW COLD WAR DESCENDING, AND A HOT WAR
BLAZING IN THE HEART OF EUROPE, RFE/RL, AS THEY'RE ALSO KNOWN, ARE BACK IN VOGUE. WITH A $20 MILLION BOOST FROM
CONGRESS, THE U.S. TAXPAYER FUNDED BROADCASTERS ARE BEAMING AND STREAMING ORIGINAL CONTENT -- MOSTLY VIDEO THESE DAYS --
INTO MANY OF THE SAME FORMER SOVIET REPUBLICS THEY TARGETED IN THE 1950s.
MARIAN KUSHNIR IS A FAMILIAR FACE ON RADIO FREE EUROPE. [ SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH ] A UKRAINIAN WAR CORRESPONDENT,
HE'S BEEN SLOGGING ALONGSIDE HIS COUNTRY'S TROOPS WITH HIS CAMERA EVER SINCE THE RUSSIANS INVADED. WE SPOKE WITH HIM IN NOVEMBER
FROM A PRAGUE CONTROL ROOM ALONGSIDE HIS EDITOR. KUSHNIR WAS IN BAKHMUT, UNDER SIEGE BY RUSSIAN TROOPS.
>> Translator: I WILL SAY THIS IN UKRAINIAN. THIS IS THE PLACE WHERE THEY HELP UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS WHO COME
HERE FROM THE FRONTLINE. THIS IS A FIELD HOSPITAL. THERE ARE ABOUT 100 WOUNDED IN HERE.
>> YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ROUTINE OF IT ALL, BUT DOES IT FEEL TO YOU THAT YOU ARE DAILY PUTTING YOURSELF IN HARM'S WAY?
>> Translator: THIS IS THE WAR. I AM ALWAYS AT RISK. EVEN BEING RIGHT HERE IN THIS HOSPITAL, I UNDERSTAND THAT NEXT
TO IT SOME SHELLING IS HAPPENING RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, BUT EVERYONE IN UKRAINE IS NOW IN DANGER.
>> KUSHNIR'S HARROWING ACCOUNTS CAN BE SEEN IN MANY FORMATS: LIVE TELEVISION, YOUTUBE, TIKTOK, CONVEYING AS MUCH AS HE
CAN THE REALITY OF HUMANITY'S ULTIMATE FOLLY. >> Translator: THE WAR FOR ME IS THE STENCH OF BLOOD, GUNPOWDER,
SWEPT, SWEAT, AND CONSTANT MUD. AND THERE IS NO ROMANCE ABOUT THE WAR.
IT IS ABOUT FEAR, GRIEF AND TEARS. NO FOOTAGE, PHOTOS OR WORDS CAN EXPRESS WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT
HERE ON THE BATTLEFIELD. >> WE'RE AN INTERNATIONAL, PUBLIC BROADCASTER. AND WE OPERATE IN COUNTRIES
WHERE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS EITHER DOES NOT EXIST OR IS UNDER ASSAULT. >> JAMIE FLY, A FORMER ADVISER
TO THE GEORGE W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION, IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF RADIO FREE EUROPE/RADIO LIBERTY, WHICH HAS
BEEN BASED IN PRAGUE, THE CAPITAL OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC, SINCE 1995. >> WE'RE FUNDED BY THE U.S.
CONGRESS. BUT BY LAW, WE'RE EDITORIALLY INDEPENDENT OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.
>> TODAY IT'S NOT JUST RADIO, IT'S MOSTLY VIDEO, CORRECT? >> YEAH. SO WE CONSTANTLY ARE DEBATING
WHEN TO CHANGE THE NAME. AND THAT MAY COME IN THE YEARS AHEAD. >> SO IT'S MOSTLY SEEN ON THE
INTERNET? >> IT VARIES, DEPENDING ON WHAT MARKET WE'RE IN. IN IRAN, WE'RE ON RADIO.
PAKISTAN WE'RE AVAILABLE ON RADIO. BUT IN PLACES LIKE RUSSIA, BELARUS, UKRAINE, PEOPLE ARE
PRIMARILY ENGAGING WITH OUR CONTENT ON SOCIAL MEDIA. >> THIS MODERN NEWSROOM IS LIKE A JOURNALISTIC VERSION OF THE
UNITED NATIONS. EACH SERVICE, RUSSIAN, UKRAINIAN, IRANIAN AND 19 OTHERS, IS MADE UP OF EMIGRES
AND EXPATS FROM THOSE COUNTRIES. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN NEWSROOMS AND BROADCAST FACILITIES. >> YOU CAN READ OUR JOURNALISTIC
STANDARDS DOCUMENT ONLINE. AND WE HAVE A RIGOROUS EDITORIAL PROCESS THAT DETERMINES WHAT WE COVER.
>> I VISIT AS MANY OF OUR 20 BUREAUS AS POSSIBLE. >> RUSSIA'S MULTIBILLION DOLLAR EFFORT TO PUSH DISINFORMATION
ABROAD HAS GIVEN THE COLD WAR RADIOS NEW LIFE. THEY'RE ADDING TWO NEW BUREAUS AND CONSTRUCTING STUDIOS HERE IN
PRAGUE FOR AN ADDITIONAL RUSSIAN LANGUAGE CHANNEL FEATURING DOCUMENTARIES, MUSIC, AND COMEDIES.
>> THIS IS YOUR AREA OF COVERAGE? >> YES. FLY SAYS 40 MILLION PEOPLE FROM
23 COUNTRIES ACROSS THIS BROAD LANDMASS TUNE INTO THEIR COVERAGE. 11 MILLION INSIDE RUSSIA,
DESPITE THE KREMLIN'S LABELLING THEM A "FOREIGN AGENT." >> THAT IS A COMMON REFRAIN WE HEAR FROM THE KREMLIN, FROM
AUTHORITARIANS THAT DON'T LIKE US. AND WE'VE DEALT WITH THAT BY BEING VERY TRANSPARENT.
WE COVER GOVERNMENTS, EVEN GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE FRIENDLY TOWARDS THE U.S. JUST AS TOUGH AS WE COVER THE KREMLIN.
>> RADIO FREE EUROPE WAS CREATED AND NURTURED BY LEGENDARY COLD WARRIORS, INCLUDING DIPLOMAT GEORGE KENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR
ALLEN DULLES, AND PRESIDENTS TRUMAN, EISENHOWER, AND KENNEDY. >> THIS PLACE, IT OOZES WITH, WITH HISTORY.
CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE DRIVING FORCE, THE SOUL OF THIS PLACE? >> CERTAINLY FOR THE
JOURNALISTS, IT'S A COMMITMENT TO THE TRUTH. WE LIVE RIGHT NOW IN WHAT, WHAT SOME WOULD CALL A POST-TRUTH AGE
WHERE PEOPLE INCREASINGLY DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN AN OBJECTIVE TRUTH. BUT THIS WAS AN ORGANIZATION IN
THE 1950s THAT WAS FOUNDED ON THE NOTION THAT THERE IS AN OBJECTIVE TRUTH. >> RADIO FREE EUROPE COMBATS THE
SOVIET LIE WITH 21 TRANSMITTERS! >> ONE TRUTH THE BROADCASTERS STILL STRUGGLE WITH IS THE FACT THAT THEY WERE ORIGINALLY FUNDED
BY THE CIA. CONGRESS ENDED THAT AFFILIATION IN 1971, AND MANDATED THE RADIOS OPERATE WITHOUT ANY U.S.
GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE. BUT THAT HASN'T STOPPED OTHER GOVERNMENTS FROM INTERFERING WITH THEM.
>> THE HISTORY OF RADIO FREE EUROPE IS FILLED WITH COLD WAR INTRIGUE. THE AMERICAN BROADCASTER HAS
BEEN A PERENNIAL TARGET OF SOVIET AND LATER RUSSIAN SPIES. A NUMBER OF DEADLY PLOTS HAVE BEEN FOILED, INCLUDING ONE TO
POISON SALTSHAKERS IN THE CAFETERIA. STILL, SOME HIGH-PROFILE JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN
ASSASSINATED. INCLUDING RFE HOST AND BULGARIAN DISSIDENT GEORGI MARKOV, WHO WAS JABBED WITH A POISONED UMBRELLA
TIP IN LONDON IN 1978. THE TERRORIST KNOWN AS "CARLOS THE JACKAL" BOMBED ITS MUNICH HEADQUARTERS IN 1981.
ALL TOLD, 18 RADIO FREE EUROPE JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN KILLED. TWO ARE IMPRISONED IN BELARUS. ONE IN CRIMEA.
PAVEL BUTORIN RUNS RFE'S 24/7 RUSSIAN LANGUAGE TELEVISION CHANNEL, CURRENT TIME. HE TOLD US VIEWERSHIP HAS SOARED
SINCE THE INVASION OF UKRAINE. >> HOW MANY VIEWERS ARE YOU GETTING? >> FOR TV ALONE, WE REPORT
6.2 MILLION WEEKLY VIEWS. BUT FOR DIGITAL PLATFORMS THIS YEAR, WE'VE REPORTED 3 BILLION ONLINE VIEWS.
>> HE SAYS MANY RUSSIANS WATCH THEIR LIVE YOUTUBE FEED IN SECRET, USING "VIRTUAL PRIVATE NETWORKS."
RECENTLY THESE STICKERS STARTED SHOWING UP IN RUSSIAN CITIES. THEY APPEAR TO BE ADS FOR CHEAP SUGAR, BUT WHEN YOU SCAN THE
BARCODES... >> THE QR CODE, THOSE QUICK RESPONSE CODES TOOK YOU TO THE CURRENT TIMES WEBSITE.
ANOTHER ONE WAS, YOU KNOW, IKEA SALE. BUT THE ACTUAL QR CODE TOOK YOU TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL.
AND WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. >> IN 2022, THE KREMLIN TURNED BACK THE CLOCK.
IT BANNED INDEPENDENT MEDIA OUTLETS, FORCED RFE'S MOSCOW BUREAU TO SHUT DOWN, AND MADE IT ILLEGAL TO CALL RUSSIA'S ACTION
IN UKRAINE A "WAR"...WITH PUNISHMENT UP TO 15 YEARS IN JAIL. AS ANCHOR OF CURRENT TIME'S
NIGHTLY NEWSCAST, KSENIA SOKOLYANSKAYA FLOUTS THAT LAW NEARLY EVERY DAY. BORN AND RAISED IN MOSCOW, SHE
IS ESSENTIALLY EXILED HERE IN PRAGUE. >> DO YOU THINK YOU WILL BE ABLE TO GO HOME SOME DAY?
>> I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW. >> REALLY? >> THERE IS A CHANCE, YOU KNOW, THAT ME OR ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES
COULD BE, YOU KNOW, DETAINED STRAIGHT AT THE AIRPORT. I THINK THERE IS A REASON WHY ALMOST EVERY FAIR JOURNALIST
LEFT THE COUNTRY SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THOSE OF US FROM OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY,
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN RUSSIA? >> I THINK THAT THINGS ARE MOVING IN A VERY SCARY DIRECTION.
I'M SURE THAT THIS WAR BRINGS DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES, NOT ONLY FOR UKRAINE AND UKRAINIANS, BUT FOR RUSSIA AND RUSSIANS.
>> A MILLION RUSSIAN CITIZENS HAVE FLED THE COUNTRY IN THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF. INCLUDING THESE FOUR RADIO FREE
EUROPE JOURNALISTS WHO, UNTIL RECENTLY, WORKED IN ITS MOSCOW BUREAU. >> JOURNALISTS ARE FATALISTS, I
THINK, ESPECIALLY RUSSIAN JOURNALISTS. >> FATALISTS? >> FATALISTS, YES.
>> SERGEI DOBRYNIN IS AN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER. >> DO ALL OF YOU EXPECT TO RETURN TO RUSSIA?
>> NOT BEFORE PUTIN DIES, I THINK. >> IT'S HOME, THOUGH. >> YES.
I STILL CONSIDER RUSSIA TO BE, TO BE "HOME." BUT, TO ME, RUSSIA IS OCCUPIED BY PUTIN, AND ALSO RUSSIAN
PEOPLE ARE OCCUPIED, MANY OF THEM, BY RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA. >> NATALYA DZHANPOLADOVA COVERS HUMAN RIGHTS.
>> WHEN I CAME TO RFE/RL, I UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS MEDIA GIVES YOU A CHANCE TO TELL THE TRUTH, TO COVER YOUR STORIES AS YOU SEE
IT, AS YOU WANT TO PRESENT IT. AND THERE IS NO PRESSURE OF SOME GUIDELINES FROM THE GOVERNMENT. >> ANASTASIA TISHCHENKO IS AT
ODDS WITH BOTH HER COUNTRY AND HER PARENTS, WHO BELIEVE RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA. >> I TRY TO SEND THEM MY
REPORTS, BUT THEY STILL BELIEVE NOT TO ME, BUT SAY, STILL BELIEVE TO RUSSIAN TELEVISION. THEY'RE AFRAID OF TRUTH.
>> AFRAID OF THE TRUTH? >> I GUESS. THAT'S HOW PROPAGANDA WORKS. >> ALEXEY ALEXANDROV DID A STINT
INSIDE UKRAINE BEFORE LEAVING RUSSIA. >> AFTER THE WAR BEGINS, I DECIDED THAT I WOULD LIKE TO GO
BACK TO UKRAINE, NOT RUSSIA. BECAUSE I FEEL RESPONSIBLE IN A WAY FOR THIS WAR. >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU FEEL
RESPONSIBLE? >> AS A PART OF RUSSIAN SOCIETY. AND PROBABLY I WILL LIKE TO GO BACK TO UKRAINE TO HELP THE
PEOPLE IN UKRAINE TO REBUILD THEIR COUNTRY. >> HIS RADIO FREE EUROPE COLLEAGUES INSIDE UKRAINE HAVE
BEEN DOING JUST THAT. NATALIE SEDLETSKA IS HOST AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF AN INVESTIGATIVE NEWS SERIES.
HER REPORTING HELPED EXPOSE THE CORRUPTION OF FORMER UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VIKTOR YANUKOVYCH, WHO FLED TO RUSSIA.
NOW SHE'S UNCOVERING BIGGER CRIMES. >> WHEN THE FULL-SCALE WAR STARTED, ME AND MY TEAM, WE
FOUND OUT THAT OUR INVESTIGATIVE SKILLS CAN REALLY HELP NOW, IN NEW REALITY. AND WE STARTED TO INVESTIGATE
RUSSIAN ATROCITIES IN UKRAINE. >> YOU UNCOVERED, YOU DOCUMENTED WAR CRIMES. >> THAT'S TRUE.
YOU'VE HEARD OF BUCHA, RIGHT? UNFORTUNATELY, THERE ARE DOZENS IF NOT HUNDREDS OF SUCH CITIES THAT SUFFERED SO MUCH FROM
RUSSIAN ATROCITIES. >> BUCHA WAS THE SITE OF THE MASS MURDER OF UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS BY RUSSIAN TROOPS.
SEDLETSKA WORKS IN RFE'S KYIV BUREAU UNDER CONSTANT THREAT OF RUSSIAN MISSILES. >> IF YOU CAN IMAGINE ANY
TRAGEDY, A MOTHER LOST HER CHILD. A CHILD LOST HIS MOTHER AND DAD. LIKE, IMAGINE ALL HORRIBLE
THINGS, THEY ARE GOING ON NOW IN MY COUNTRY. >> AND YOU'VE DECIDED TO STAY? >> BEING A REPORTER IN UKRAINE,
IT'S OUR MISSION OF COURSE. SO WHY I'M TELLING YOU THESE STORIES? BECAUSE I'M AFRAID OF UNTOLD
STORIES. I'M AFRAID THAT WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TELL ALL THE TRUTHS THAT IS GOING ON BECAUSE SO MUCH IS
GOING ON.
>>> IN WHAT YEAR WILL THE HUMAN POPULATION GROW TOO LARGE FOR THE EARTH TO SUSTAIN? THE ANSWER IS ABOUT 1970
ACCORDING TO RESEARCH BY THE WORLD WILDLIFE FUND. IN 1970, THE PLANET'S 3.5 BILLION PEOPLE WERE
SUSTAINABLE. BUT ON THIS NEW YEAR'S DAY, THE POPULATION IS 8 BILLION. TODAY, WILD PLANTS AND ANIMALS
ARE RUNNING OUT OF PLACES TO LIVE. THE SCIENTISTS YOU'RE ABOUT TO MEET SAY THE EARTH IS SUFFERING
A CRISIS OF MASS EXTINCTION ON A SCALE UNSEEN SINCE THE DINOSAURS. WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU A
POSSIBLE SOLUTION, BUT FIRST, HAVE A LOOK AT HOW HUMANITY IS ALREADY SUFFERING FROM THE VANISHING WILD.
IN WASHINGTON STATE, THE SALISH SEA HELPED FEED THE WORLD. >> WITH THIS WEATHER AND THE WAY THINGS FEEL ONCE I GET OUT HERE,
IT'S TIME TO BE FISHING, THAT'S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. >> COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN DANA WILSON SUPPORTED A FAMILY ON THE
SALISH SEA'S LEGENDARY WEALTH OF SALMON. HE REMEMBERS PROPELLERS CHURNING THE BLAINE OFF WASHINGTON AND
CRANES STRAINING FOR THE STATE'S $200 MILLION ANNUAL CATCH.
>> THAT USED TO BE A BUYING STATION, THEY'RE GONE NOW, THEY DON'T BUY ANYMORE. SO, THAT BUILDING OVER THERE
USED TO BUY SALMON, THEY DON'T BUY SALMON ANYMORE, IT'S JUST NOT HERE. >> IN 1991, ONE SALMON SPECIES
WAS ENDANGERED. TODAY, 14 SALMON POPULATIONS ARE FOUNDERING. THEY'VE BEEN CROWDED OUT OF
RIVERS BY HABITAT DESTRUCTION, WARMING, AND POLLUTION. DANA WILSON USED TO FISH ALL SUMMER.
TODAY, A CONSERVATION AUTHORITY GRANTS RARE, FLEETING PERMISSION TO THROW A NET. >> THERE WAS A SEASON.
>> NOW THERE'S A DAY? >> THERE'S A DAY, AND SOMETIMES IT'S HOURS.
SOMETIMES YOU MIGHT GET 12 HOURS, 16 HOURS, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOWN TO. >> HERE, THE VANISHING WILD
SCUTTLED A WAY OF LIFE THAT BEGAN WITH NATIVE TRIBES 1,000 YEARS AGO. >> I DON'T REMEMBER ANYBODY
DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN SALMON FISHING. >> FISHERMAN ARMANDO BRIONEZ, IS A MEMBER OF THE LUMMI TRIBE
WHICH CALLS ITSELF "PEOPLE OF THE SALMON." HE DIDN'T IMAGINE THE RICH HARVEST WOULD END WITH HIS FIVE
FISHING BOATS. >> ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, "WELL, HOW AM I GONNA MAKE THAT PAYCHECK
FOR MY FAMILY?" WELL, FOR ME, IT WAS LIKE, WELL, I HAVE A BACKUP, FOR A BACKUP, FOR A BACKUP.
>> BRIONEZ'S "BACKUPS" INCLUDE HIS NEW FOOD TRUCK, SWITCHING TO CRAB FISHING, AND CONSULTING ON CANNABIS FARMS.
HIS SCRAMBLE TO ADAPT IS BEING REPEATED AROUND THE WORLD. A WORLD WILDLIFE FUND STUDY SAYS THAT IN THE PAST 50 YEARS, THE
ABUNDANCE OF GLOBAL WILDLIFE HAS COLLAPSED 69%, MOSTLY FOR THE SAME REASON. >> TOO MANY PEOPLE, TOO MUCH
CONSUMPTION AND GROWTH MANIA. >> AT THE AGE OF 90, BIOLOGIST PAUL EHRLICH MAY HAVE LIVED LONG ENOUGH TO SEE SOME OF HIS DIRE
PROPHECIES COME TRUE. >> YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING THAT HUMANITY IS NOT SUSTAINABLE? >> OH, HUMANITY IS NOT
SUSTAINABLE. TO MAINTAIN OUR LIFESTYLE, YOURS AND MINE, BASICALLY, FOR THE ENTIRE PLANET, YOU'D NEED FIVE
MORE EARTHS. NOT CLEAR WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO COME FROM. >> JUST IN TERMS OF THE
RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED? >> RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED, THE SYSTEMS THAT
SUPPORT OUR LIVES, WHICH OF COURSE ARE THE BIODIVERSITY THAT WE'RE WIPING OUT. HUMANITY IS VERY BUSILY SITTING
ON A LIMB THAT WE'RE SAWING OFF. >> IN 1968, EHRLICH, A BIOLOGY PROFESSOR AT STANFORD, BECAME A DOOMSDAY CELEBRITY WITH A
BEST-SELLER FORECASTING THE COLLAPSE OF NATURE. >> WHEN "THE POPULATION BOMB" CAME OUT, YOU WERE DESCRIBED AS
AN ALARMIST. >> I WAS ALARMED. I AM STILL ALARMED. ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES ARE
ALARMED. >> THE ALARM EHRLICH SOUNDED IN '68 WARNED THAT OVERPOPULATION WOULD TRIGGER WIDESPREAD FAMINE.
HE WAS WRONG ABOUT THAT. THE GREEN REVOLUTION FED THE WORLD. BUT HE ALSO WROTE IN '68 THAT
HEAT FROM GREENHOUSE GASES WOULD MELT POLAR ICE AND HUMANITY WOULD OVERWHELM THE WILD. TODAY, HUMANS HAVE TAKEN OVER
70% OF THE PLANET'S LAND AND 70% OF THE FRESHWATER. >> THE RATE OF EXTINCTION IS EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH NOW AND
GETTING HIGHER ALL THE TIME. >> WE KNOW THE RATE OF EXTINCTION IS "EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH" BECAUSE OF A STUDY OF THE
FOSSIL RECORD BY BIOLOGIST TONY BARNOSKY, EHRLICH'S STANFORD COLLEAGUE. >> THE DATA ARE ROCK SOLID.
I DON'T THINK YOU'LL FIND A SCIENTIST THAT WILL SAY WE'RE NOT IN AN EXTINCTION CRISIS. >> BARNOSKY'S RESEARCH SUGGESTS
TODAY'S RATE OF EXTINCTION IS UP TO 100 TIMES FASTER THAN IS TYPICAL IN THE NEARLY 4 BILLION YEAR HISTORY OF LIFE.
THESE PEAKS REPRESENT THE FEW TIMES THAT LIFE COLLAPSED GLOBALLY. AND THE LAST WAS THE DINOSAURS,
66 MILLION YEARS AGO. >> THERE ARE FIVE TIMES IN EARTH'S HISTORY WHERE WE HAD MASS EXTINCTIONS.
AND BY MASS EXTINCTIONS, I MEAN AT LEAST 75%, THREE-QUARTERS OF THE KNOWN SPECIES DISAPPEARING FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.
NOW WE'RE WITNESSING WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CALLING THE SIXTH MASS EXTINCTION WHERE THE SAME THING COULD HAPPEN ON OUR WATCH.
>> IT'S A HORRIFIC STATE OF THE PLANET WHEN COMMON SPECIES, THE UBIQUITOUS SPECIES THAT WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH ARE DECLINING.
>> TONY BARNOSKY'S COLLEAGUE IN THE STUDY OF EXTINCTION IS HIS WIFE, BIOLOGIST LIZ HADLY, FACULTY DIRECTOR AT STANFORD'S
JASPER RIDGE RESEARCH PRESERVE IN CALIFORNIA. >> YOU KNOW, I SEE IT IN MY MIND AND IT'S REALLY A SAD STATE.
IF YOU'VE SPENT ANY TIME IN CALIFORNIA, YOU KNOW THE LOSS OF WATER. THE LOSS OF WATER MEANS THAT
THERE ARE DEAD SALMON YOU SEE IN THE RIVER RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES. BUT IT ALSO MEANS THE DEMISE OF
THOSE BIRDS THAT RELY ON THE SALMON FISHERY, EAGLES. IT MEANS, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE MINKS AND OTTERS THAT RELY ON
FISH. IT MEANS THAT OUR HABITATS THAT WE'RE USED TO, THE FORESTS THAT, YOU KNOW, 3,000-YEAR-OLD FORESTS
ARE GOING TO BE GONE. SO IT MEANS SILENCE. AND IT MEANS SOME VERY CATASTROPHIC EVENTS BECAUSE IT'S
HAPPENING SO QUICKLY. >> IT MEANS YOU LOOK OUT YOUR WINDOW, AND THREE-QUARTERS OF WHAT YOU THINK OUGHT TO BE THERE
IS NO LONGER THERE. THAT'S WHAT MASS EXTINCTION LOOKS LIKE. >> WHAT WE SEE JUST IN
CALIFORNIA IS, YOU KNOW, THE LOSS OF OUR ICONIC STATE SYMBOLS. WE HAVE NO MORE GRIZZLY BEARS IN
CALIFORNIA. >> THE ONLY GRIZZLY BEARS IN CALIFORNIA ARE ON THE STATE FLAG?
>> THAT'S OUR STATE MAMMAL AND THEY ARE NOT HERE ANYMORE. >> IS IT TOO MUCH TO SAY THAT WE'RE KILLING THE PLANET?
>> NO. >> I WOULD SAY IT'S TOO MUCH TO SAY THAT WE'RE KILLING THE PLANET, BECAUSE THE PLANET'S
GOING TO BE FINE. WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE KILLING OUR WAY OF LIFE. >> THE WORST OF THE KILLING IS
IN LATIN AMERICA WHERE THE WORLD WILDLIFE FUND STUDY SAYS THE ABUNDANCE OF WILDLIFE HAS FALLEN 94% SINCE 1970.
BUT IT WAS ALSO IN LATIN AMERICA THAT WE FOUND THE POSSIBILITY OF HOPE. >> MEXICAN ECOLOGIST
GERARDO CEBALLOS IS ONE OF THE WORLD'S LEADING SCIENTISTS ON EXTINCTION. HE TOLD US THE ONLY SOLUTION IS
TO SAVE THE ONE-THIRD OF THE EARTH THAT REMAINS WILD. TO PROVE IT, HE'S RUNNING A 3,000-SQUARE-MILE EXPERIMENT.
IN THE CALAKMUL BIOSPHERE RESERVE NEAR GUATEMALA, HE IS PAYING FAMILY FARMERS TO STOP CUTTING THE FOREST.
>> WE'RE GOING TO PAY EACH FAMILY CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS MORE THAN YOU WILL GET CUTTING DOWN THE FOREST, IF YOU
PROTECT IT. >> AND HOW MUCH ARE YOU PAYING OUT EVERY YEAR? >> FOR INSTANCE, EACH FAMILY
HERE WILL GET AROUND $1,000. >> MORE THAN ENOUGH, HERE, TO MAKE UP FOR LOST FARMLAND. IN TOTAL, THE PAYOUTS COME TO
$1.5 MILLION A YEAR. OR ABOUT $2,000 PER SQUARE MILE. THE TAB IS PAID THROUGH THE CHARITY OF WEALTHY DONORS.
>> THE INVESTMENT TO PROTECT WHAT IS LEFT IS, I MEAN, REALLY SMALL. >> THE PAYOFF ON THAT INVESTMENT
IS BEING COLLECTED ON CEBALLOS' JUNGLE CAMERAS. 30 YEARS AGO THE JAGUAR WAS VERY NEARLY EXTINCT IN MEXICO.
NOW CEBALLOS SAYS THEY'VE REBOUNDED TO ABOUT 600 IN THE RESERVE. >> THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHERE
THERE ARE RESERVES AROUND THE WORLD WHERE THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO INCREASE THE POPULATIONS OF CERTAIN SPECIES.
BUT, I WONDER, ARE ALL THESE LITTLE SUCCESS STORIES ENOUGH TO PREVENT MASS EXTINCTION? >> ALL THE BIG SUCCESS THAT WE
HAVE IN PROTECTING FORESTS AND RECOVERING ANIMALS, LIKE TIGERS IN INDIA, JAGUARS IN MEXICO, ELEPHANTS IN BOTSWANA, AND SO
ON, ARE INCREDIBLE, AMAZING SUCCESSES. BUT THEY ARE LIKE GRAINS OF SAND IN A BEACH.
AND TO REALLY MAKE A BIG IMPACT WE NEED TO SCALE UP THIS 10,000 TIMES. SO, THEY ARE IMPORTANT BECAUSE
THEY GIVE US HOPE. BUT THEY ARE COMPLETELY INSUFFICIENT TO COPE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.
>> SO WHAT WOULD THE WORLD HAVE TO DO? >> WHAT WE WILL HAVE TO DO IS REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE
CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE SPECIES EXTINCTION IS A THREAT TO HUMANITY. AND THEN PULL ALL THE MACHINERY
OF SOCIETY, POLITICAL, ECONOMIC, AND SOCIAL, TOWARDS FINDING SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS. >> FINDING SOLUTIONS TO THE
PROBLEMS WAS THE GOAL TWO WEEKS AGO, AT THE U.N. BIODIVERSITY CONFERENCE WHERE NATIONS AGREED TO CONSERVATION TARGETS.
BUT AT THE SAME MEETING IN 2010 THOSE NATIONS AGREED TO LIMIT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE EARTH BY 2020, AND NOT ONE OF THOSE GOALS
WAS MET. THIS, DESPITE THOUSANDS OF STUDIES INCLUDING THE CONTINUING RESEARCH OF STANFORD BIOLOGIST
PAUL EHRLICH. >> YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS NO POLITICAL WILL TO DO ANY OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING.
>> I KNOW THERE'S NO POLITICAL WILL TO DO ANY OF THE THINGS THAT I'M CONCERNED WITH, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY I AND THE VAST
MAJORITY OF MY COLLEAGUES THINK WE'VE HAD IT, THAT THE NEXT FEW DECADES WILL BE THE END OF THE KIND OF CIVILIZATION WE'RE USED
TO. >> IN THE 50 YEARS SINCE EHRLICH'S "POPULATION BOMB," HUMANITY'S FEASTING ON RESOURCES
HAS TRIPLED. WE'RE ALREADY CONSUMING 175% OF WHAT THE EARTH CAN REGENERATE. AND, CONSIDER HALF OF HUMANITY,
ABOUT 4 BILLION LIVE ON LESS THAN $10 A DAY. THEY ASPIRE TO CARS, AIR-CONDITIONING, AND A RICH
DIET. BUT THEY WON'T BE FED BY THE FISHERMEN OF WASHINGTON'S SALISH SEA INCLUDING ARMANDO BRIONEZ.
>> THE TRIBE HAS BEEN FISHING SALMON HERE FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS? >> YEAH.
>> AND YOUR GENERATION IS SEEING THE END OF THAT? >> IT'S GETTING HARDER AND HARDER.
I HATE TO SAY, I DON'T WANT TO SAY IT'S THE END OF IT. >> WHY DO YOU FEEL SO EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO THIS?
>> IT'S EVERYTHING WE KNOW. I'M FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO KNOW WHERE I KNOW A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
I'VE DONE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS IN MY LIFE. I'VE GOTTEN GOOD AT EVOLVING AND CHANGING.
BUT NOT EVERYBODY HERE IS BUILT LIKE THAT. TO SOME OF US THIS IS WHAT THEY KNOW, THIS IS ALL THEY KNOW.
>> THE FIVE MASS EXTINCTIONS OF THE ANCIENT PAST WERE CAUSED BY NATURAL CALAMITIES, VOLCANOES, AND AN ASTEROID.
TODAY, IF THE SCIENCE IS RIGHT, HUMANITY MAY HAVE TO SURVIVE A SIXTH MASS EXTINCTION IN A WORLD OF ITS OWN MAKING.
>>> ALMOST HALF OF AMERICAN ADULTS HAVE OBESITY, A CONDITION THAT WAS A FRACTION OF THAT JUST 40 YEARS AGO, AND SCIENTISTS
DON'T AGREE ON WHAT'S CAUSED THE DRAMATIC INCREASE. WHAT EVERYONE DOES AGREE ON IS THAT IT'S A MAJOR HEALTH CRISIS,
BECAUSE OBESITY CAN CAUSE TYPE 2 DIABETES, HYPERTENSION, STROKE, AND MORE THAN A DOZEN CANCERS. NOW THERE'S A MEDICATION THAT
LEADS TO DRAMATIC WEIGHT LOSS. BUT IT'S WILDLY EXPENSIVE. HOLLYWOOD CELEBRITIES TAKE IT TO FLATTEN THEIR TUMMIES, BUT FEW
CAN AFFORD THE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IT COSTS A YEAR. AND VERY FEW INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL COVER IT, EVEN THOUGH, IN
2013 THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, SOME WOULD SAY FINALLY RECOGNIZED OBESITY AS A DISEASE.
>> IT'S A BRAIN DISEASE. >> IT IS? >> IT'S A BRAIN DISEASE. AND THE BRAIN TELLS US HOW MUCH
TO EAT AND HOW MUCH TO STORE. >> DR. FATIMA CODY STANFORD, AN OBESITY DOCTOR AT MASS GENERAL HOSPITAL AND ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR
AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL, SAYS COMMON BELIEFS ABOUT OBESITY ARE ALL WRONG. >> IT IS YOUR TURN TO GET ON
THAT SCALE. >> AND DIET SHOWS LIKE "THE BIGGEST LOSER" -- >> YOU LOST 128 POUNDS!
-- ARE SNOOKERING PEOPLE. >> IF YOU DIET, YOU LOSE WEIGHT, RIGHT? >> FOR MANY OF US, WE CAN GO ON
A DIET. SOMETHING LIKE "THE BIGGEST LOSER," RIGHT? YOU GO AND YOU RESTRICT PEOPLE.
YOU MAKE THEM WORK OUT FOR TEN HOURS A DAY AND THEN YOU FEED THEM 500 CALORIES. FOR MOST PEOPLE, THEY WILL
ACUTELY LOSE WEIGHT. BUT 96% OF THOSE PARTICIPANTS IN "THE BIGGEST LOSER" REGAINED THEIR WEIGHT BECAUSE THEIR BRAIN
WORKED WELL. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BRING THEM BACK TO STORE WHAT THEY NEEDED OR WHAT THE BRAIN THINKS IT
NEEDS. >> SO, WILLPOWER? >> THROW THAT OUT THE WINDOW. MY LAST PATIENT THAT I SAW TODAY
WAS A YOUNG WOMAN WHO'S 39 WHO STRUGGLES WITH SEVERE OBESITY. SHE'S BEEN WORKING OUT FIVE TO SIX TIMES A WEEK, CONSISTENTLY.
SHE'S EATING VERY LITTLE. HER BRAIN IS DEFENDING A CERTAIN SET POINT. >> A SET POINT, SAYS
DR. STANFORD, IS A RANGE OF WEIGHT YOUR BRAIN IS IN CHARGE OF MAINTAINING BY CONTROLLING HOW MUCH FOOD YOU EAT AND HOW
MUCH OF IT YOU STORE. ONE THEORY IS THAT IT'S AN EVOLUTIONARY SURVIVAL MECHANISM THAT HELPED RETAIN FAT DURING
FAMINES. >> SO WE HAD COVID. LOTS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE GAINED WEIGHT.
DID THOSE PEOPLE HAVE A NEW SET POINT THAT'S HIGHER NOW? >> ABSOLUTELY. SO WHEN YOU HAVE A CHRONIC
STRESSOR AND YOU GET TO A CERTAIN WEIGHT AND MAINTAIN THAT WEIGHT FOR, LET'S SAY, AT LEAST THREE TO SIX MONTHS, THEN YOU
RECALIBRATE THAT SET POINT TO A DIFFERENT SET POINT. >> I'VE ALWAYS HEARD THAT IT'S THE FAST FOOD.
THAT IT'S THE DIET COKES, THAT KINDA THING, THAT IS THE INSTIGATOR. IS THAT TRUE?
>> SO I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT CAUSES OF OBESITY AS A BIG PIE. AND THAT'S ONE FACTOR.
BUT NOTICE HOW I'M USING THIS PART OF THE PIE, RIGHT? >> BUT THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF OBESITY IS GENETICS.
THAT MEANS IF YOU WERE BORN TO PARENTS THAT HAVE OBESITY, YOU HAVE A 50-85% LIKELIHOOD OF HAVING THE DISEASE YOURSELF EVEN
WITH OPTIMAL DIET, EXERCISE, SLEEP MANAGEMENT, STRESS MANAGEMENT, SO WHEN PEOPLE SEE FAMILIES THAT HAVE OBESITY, THE
ASSUMPTION IS, "UGH, WHAT ARE THEY FEEDING THOSE KIDS? THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG." ACTUALLY, DO YOU KNOW THIS?
79-90% OF PHYSICIANS IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE SIGNIFICANT BIAS TOWARDS INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE HEAVIER.
NOW, DOCTORS LISTENING TO ME MAY SAY, "OH, IT'S NOT ME." HOLD YOUR HORSES, BECAUSE HAS THAT PATIENT COME TO YOU AND
TOLD YOU, "LOOK, DOC, I'M EATING WELL." "LOOK, DOC, I'M EXERCISING." AND THE DOC SAYS TO THEM, "ARE
YOU SURE? I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING." >> WAIT, ARE YOU SAYING THAT
DOCTORS DON'T UNDERSTAND OBESITY? DOCTORS? >> DOCTORS DO NOT UNDERSTAND
OBESITY. >> IN ONE OF HER PUBLISHED STUDIES, DR. STANFORD FOUND THAT MOST MEDICAL SCHOOLS DON'T TEACH
THAT OBESITY IS A DISEASE AND, IN FACT, DON'T EVEN OFFER COURSES ON IT, EACH THOUGH IT'S THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF
PREVENTIBLE DEATH IN THE COUNTRY AFTER SMOKING. >> NICOLE SAMS, MOTHER OF FIVE FROM RHODE ISLAND, SPENT YEARS
GOING TO DOCTORS WHO ALL HAD THE SAME MESSAGE. >> "WELL, YOU JUST HAVE TO GO SEE A DIETITIAN."
AND I DID. I DID EVERYTHING I WAS TOLD TO DO. I WENT TO A DIETITIAN, YOU KNOW,
I SAT, HAD THE RUBBER FOODS COME IN FRONT OF ME, "OH, YOU'LL ONLY EAT THIS PORTION," I'M LIKE, "OH."
>> MAYA COHEN WENT ON HER FIRST DIET WHEN SHE WAS 13. AT HER HEAVIEST, AT 5 FEET TALL, SHE WEIGHED 192 POUNDS.
>> DID YOU FEEL THAT PEOPLE LOOKED AT YOU AND SAID, "WHY DOESN'T SHE STOP EATING? SHE'S EATEN HER WAY TO THAT"?
>> YOU KNOW YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE AND YOU INTERNALIZE, "OH, THEY SO IT'S JUST AFTER A WHILE YOU JUST PERSONALLY THINK THAT,
"OKAY, EVERYONE'S TELLING ME THAT I'M -- THAT THIS IS A FLAW IN MY CHARACTER," THEREFORE IT MUST BE TRUE.
AND SO YOU START BELIEVING THIS. >> DON'T YOU THINK IF PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET WITH OBESITY, STIGMATIZED AS THEY
ARE, SHUNNED, DON'T YOU THINK IF THEY COULD LOSE WEIGHT AND KEEP IT OFF, THEY WOULD? >> DR. CAROLINE APOVIAN,
CO-DIRECTOR OF THE WEIGHT MANAGEMENT AND WELLNESS CENTER AT BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL IN BOSTON --
>> EXERCISE IS GOOD. I'M WALKING A LOT. -- WHO SEES BOTH MAYA COHEN AND NICOLE SAMS IS RELIEVED THAT AT
LAST SHE HAS A HIGHLY EFFECTIVE MEDICATION TO OFFER HER PATIENTS THAT'S SAFE, ACCORDING TO THE FDA.
>> WHAT THE MEDICATION DOES... >> IT'S PART OF A NEW GENERATION OF MEDICATIONS THAT BRINGS ABOUT AN IMPRESSIVE AVERAGE LOSS OF 15
TO 22% OF A PERSON'S WEIGHT, AND IT HELPS KEEP IT OFF. DRS. APOVIAN AND STANFORD HAVE BEEN ADVISING COMPANIES
DEVELOPING DRUGS FOR OBESITY, INCLUDING THE DANISH COMPANY NOVO NORDISK, AN ADVERTISER ON THIS BROADCAST.
IT MAKES THE DRUG, WEGOVY, THAT YOU INJECT YOURSELF ONCE A WEEK WITH SOMETHING LIKE AN EPIPEN. IT'S NOT EASY TO GET.
THE DRUG IS CURRENTLY IN SHORT SUPPLY. AND IT COSTS MORE THAN $1,300 A MONTH.
>> PEOPLE IN HOLLYWOOD CAN AFFORD THESE EXPENSIVE INJECTIONS. AND THEY'RE TAKING THEM.
>> RIGHT. >> AND THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY PEOPLE WITH OBESITY. >> YEAH.
WE HAVE A NATIONAL SHORTAGE ON THESE MEDICATIONS. IF THOSE THAT HAVE THE MEANS ARE ABLE TO GET THEM, YET THE PEOPLE
THAT REALLY NEED THEM ARE UNABLE TO, THEN THAT CREATES A GREATER DISPARITY, RIGHT? THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOT'S.
>> THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WITH OBESITY SIMPLY CAN'T AFFORD WEGOVY AND MOST INSURANCE COMPANIES REFUSE TO COVER IT
PARTLY BECAUSE, AS A-HIP -- THE HEALTH INSURANCE TRADE ASSOCIATION -- EXPLAINED IN A STATEMENT, THESE DRUGS "HAVE NOT
YET BEEN PROVEN TO WORK WELL FOR LONG-TERM WEIGHT MANAGEMENT AND CAN HAVE COMPLICATIONS AND ADVERSE IMPACTS ON PATIENTS."
>> WHAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR IS REALLY NAUSEA, VOMITING, YOU KNOW THAT'S WHY THESE DRUGS ARE DOSED SLOWLY AND STARTING WITH
LOW DOSES. >> OH, AND BUILD UP? >> AND BUILD UP. >> DR. APOVIAN SAYS MOST OF THE
SIDE EFFECTS GO AWAY OVER TIME. >> WE ARE FRUSTRATED EVERY SINGLE DAY WHEN WE SEE PATIENTS WHO DESPERATELY NEED TO LOSE
WEIGHT TO REDUCE THE DIABETES, REDUCE THE HYPERTENSION, STROKE, HEART DISEASE, AND WE CAN'T GIVE THEM THIS FABULOUS, ROBUST
MEDICATION THAT IS VERY EFFECTIVE AND SAFE. AND WE CAN'T GIVE IT TO THEM BECAUSE INSURANCE WON'T COVER
IT. I RECEIVE EMAILS ABOUT DENIALS, THAT STATE THAT WE'RE DENYING THIS BECAUSE "THE DOCTOR HAS NOT
COUNSELLED THE PATIENT ON BEHAVIOR CHANGE AS PART OF THIS." THAT'S WHERE THE STIGMA OF
OBESITY COMES IN, THE IDEA THAT THE PATIENT CAN DO IT WITH DIET AND EXERCISE. YOU WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO A
PATIENT WITH HYPERTENSION OR HEART DISEASE OR TYPE 2 DIABETES, TELL THEM THAT YOU "JUST DON'T EAT SUGAR, YOU'LL BE
FINE." >> NOVO NORDISK ALSO MAKES A DRUG FOR TYPE 2 DIABETES CALLED OZEMPIC, WHICH MOST INSURERS AND
WHAT FRUSTRATES THE DOCTORS IS THAT OZEMPIC AND WEGOVY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME DRUG, THOUGH WEGOVY FOR OBESITY IS USUALLY
PRESCRIBED AT A HIGHER DOSAGE. WHEN MAYA COHEN WANTED THE MEDICATION FOR OBESITY... >> MY INSURANCE COMPANY TOLD ME
THAT THEY CONSIDER IT A "VANITY DRUG." >> A "VANITY DRUG." >> SO THAT SUGGESTS THAT THE
INSURANCE COMPANY DOES NOT CONSIDER OBESITY A DISEASE. >> CORRECT. >> NICOLE WAS ALSO DENIED
COVERAGE. ON ITS WEBSITE, HER HEALTH PLAN, THROUGH THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND, PUTS ANTI-OBESITY
MEDICATIONS IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS DRUGS FOR ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION AND COSMETIC PURPOSES.
THERE ARE ABOUT 110 MILLION AMERICANS ELIGIBLE FOR AN ANTI-OBESITY MEDICATION, MAKING IT A COSTLY INVESTMENT FOR
INSURANCE, BUT IF THEY COVERED IT, OVERALL GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE HEALTHCARE SPENDING WOULD PROBABLY COME DOWN.
JUST TAKE DIABETES, THAT IS, IN MANY CASES, CAUSED BY OBESITY. DIABETES COSTS MORE THAN $300 BILLION A YEAR, MOST OF
WHICH IS COVERED THROUGH MEDICARE AND MEDICAID. BUT UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO HEALTHCARE ECONOMIST
TOMAS PHILIPSON POINTS OUT THAT THERE'S ACTUALLY A LAW THAT PREVENTS MEDICARE FROM COVERING WEIGHT LOSS DRUGS.
>> YOU WOULD THINK THAT THAT INSURANCE PROGRAM FOR OLDER ADULTS WOULD SEE AN ENORMOUS BENEFIT TO THESE DRUGS?
>> YEAH, A THIRD OF MEDICARE SPENDING IS DIABETES, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS HIGHLY WITH -- TIED TO OBESITY.
AND MEDICARE KIND OF SEES ALL THE HEALTHCARE EXPENSES WHEN YOU GET OLDER WHEN YOU HAVE HEART DISEASE, ET CETERA, FROM YOUR
OBESITY. I THINK WHAT ULTIMATELY WILL DRIVE IT IS THAT THEY HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY
GOING TO LOWER TOTAL MEDICARE COSTS. >> GREAT, GREAT. >> WHEN DR. APOVIAN TOLD BOTH
MAYA COHEN AND NICOLE SAMS THAT THEIR OBESITY WAS NOT A WEAKNESS OF WILLPOWER, THEY WERE BLOWN AWAY.
>> I LOOKED AT HER AND I SAID, "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, 'IT'S NOT MY FAULT'?
IT IS MY FAULT." BECAUSE IT'S WHAT I HEARD FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE. >> I WENT HOME THAT DAY LIKE A
BOULDER HAD COME OFF MY SHOULDERS. LIKE, "OKAY, THERE'S FINALLY HOPE.
THERE'S HOPE." >> DID YOU CRY? >> I DID. A LOT.
[ LAUGHTER ] >> ALL THOSE YEARS OF THINKING THAT SOMEHOW YOU HAVE NO WILLPOWER AND IT'S YOUR MORAL
FAILING AND YOU'RE A GLUTTON AND WHY DID YOU EAT SO MUCH AND -- FEELING SHAME. IT'S THE SHAME.
>> YEAH, YEAH. IT'S THE SHAME. >> IT'S THE SHAME. >> MAYA WAS ULTIMATELY ABLE TO
GET THE MEDICATION COVERED BY HER INSURANCE, BECAUSE SHE HAS TYPE 2 DIABETES. SHE'S LOST MORE THAN 50 POUNDS.
DR. APOVIAN SAYS SHE DOES HAVE TO CONTINUE DIETING AND EXERCISING AND LIKE MOST PATIENTS, WILL BE TAKING THE
DRUG INDEFINITELY TO MAINTAIN HER WEIGHT. NICOLE DOESN'T HAVE TYPE 2 DIABETES.
>> NICOLE, WE CALLED YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY AND THEY GAVE US A STATEMENT. >> OKAY.
>> "EARLIER THIS YEAR THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND, IN CONSULTATION WITH ITS PHARMACY BENEFITS MANAGER, DECIDED THAT HEALTH
INSURANCE FOR THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND EMPLOYEES WOULD COVER THE ENTIRE CLASS OF ANTI-OBESITY DRUGS."
>> OH -- REALLY? >> "THIS COVERAGE CHANGE GOES INTO EFFECT JANUARY." >> OKAY.
>> -- 2023. >> I'M SO HAPPY FOR YOU. >> YES, THIS IS GREAT, THIS IS GREAT.
[ CLAPS ] WOW, WOW. >> IN ITS STATEMENT, THE HEALTH INSURANCE TRADE ASSOCIATION SAID
"OBESITY IS A COMPLEX DISEASE AND THE EVIDENCE AND CLINICAL GUIDELINES RELATED TO OBESITY TREATMENT...ARE EVOLVING
RAPIDLY. HEALTH INSURANCE PROVIDERS WILL CONTINUE TO REVIEW THE CLINICAL EVIDENCE.
>>> THE SCIENCE OF WEIGHT MANAGEMENT
>>> "THE LAST MINUTE" OF "60 MINUTES" IS SPONSORED BY UNITED HEALTH CARE. GET MEDICARE WITH MORE.
>>> LAST NIGHT MARKED NOT ONLY THE END OF A YEAR, BUT ALSO THE END OF AN ERA. DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, AT 82,
PRESIDENT BIDEN'S CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER AND DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE STEPPED
DOWN AFTER NEARLY 39 YEARS. IN EIGHT "60 MINUTES" STORIES, DR. FAUCI SPOKE WITH OUR LATE COLLEAGUE ED BRADLEY ABOUT THE
DEVELOPMENT OF AIDS DRUGS, WITH US ABOUT QUESTIONABLE "CURES" FOR AIDS. >> LESLEY STAHL ASKED ABOUT DRUG
RESISTANT "SUPERBUGS." STEVE KROFT TALKED WITH HIM ABOUT H5N1 BIRD FLU. IN 2016, IT WAS
MOSQUITO-BORNE ZIKA. AND RECENTLY, COVID-19. DR. FAUCI SPOKE DIRECTLY, IN LANGUAGE THE AVERAGE AMERICAN
COULD UNDERSTAND. AND HE WASN'T AFRAID OF A LITTLE CONTROVERSY IN THE SERVICE OF SCIENCE AND MEDICINE.
I'M SCOTT PELLEY. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES."