1 00:00:12,345 --> 00:00:19,786 >> Translator: WHERE DO AN ESTIMATED 11 MILLION RUSSIANS GET STRAIGHT OBJECTIVE NEWS? FROM RADIO FREE EUROPE. 2 00:00:19,853 --> 00:00:27,227 [ SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH ] THE U.S. GOVERNMENT-FUNDED COLD WAR RELIC IS AS RELEVANT AS IT'S EVER BEEN. 3 00:00:27,293 --> 00:00:34,434 WITH REPORTERS ON THE FRONT LINES, IT'S RUN FROM PRAGUE, AND EMPLOYS JOURNALISTS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD. 4 00:00:34,501 --> 00:00:43,076 DO ALL OF YOU EXPECT TO RETURN TO RUSSIA? >> NOT BEFORE PUTIN DIES, I THINK. 5 00:00:43,143 --> 00:00:52,852 >>> LAST MONTH, THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD AGREED TO SAVE NATURE FROM MASS EXTINCTION. BUT THE U.N. HAD THIS MEETING IN 6 00:00:52,919 --> 00:01:02,762 2010, AND NOT ONE GOAL WAS MET. LEADING BIOLOGISTS WARN THAT TIME IS RUNNING OUT TO SLOW THE RATE OF EXTINCTION AROUND THE 7 00:01:02,829 --> 00:01:10,136 GLOBE. >> WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY I AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF MY COLLEAGUES THINK WE'VE HAD IT, 8 00:01:10,203 --> 00:01:21,815 THAT THE NEXT FEW DECADES WILL BE THE END OF THE KIND OF CIVILIZATION WE'RE USED TO. >>> IF YOU DIET, YOU LOSE 9 00:01:21,881 --> 00:01:29,088 WEIGHT, RIGHT? >> THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF OBESITY IS GENETICS. THAT MEANS IF YOU ARE BORN TO 10 00:01:29,155 --> 00:01:39,699 PARENTS THAT HAVE OBESITY, YOU HAVE A 50 TO 85% LIKELIHOOD OF HAVING THE DISEASE YOURSELF, EVEN WITH OPTIMAL DIET, 11 00:01:39,766 --> 00:01:47,240 EXERCISE, SLEEP MANAGEMENT, STRESS MANAGEMENT. SO WHEN PEOPLE SEE FAMILIES THAT HAVE OBESITY, THE ASSUMPTION IS, 12 00:01:47,307 --> 00:01:51,744 UGH, WHAT ARE THEY FEEDING THOSE KIDS? >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. 13 00:01:51,811 --> 00:01:56,749 >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. >> I'M JON WERTHEIM. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. 14 00:01:56,816 --> 00:02:12,098 THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT ON "60 MINUTES." >>> AMERICANS FAMILIAR WITH RADIO FREE EUROPE AND RADIO 15 00:02:12,165 --> 00:02:17,737 LIBERTY MIGHT CONSIDER THEM COLD WAR RELICS, VESTIGES OF A TIME WHEN BROADCASTING STRAIGHT NEWS BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN WAS 16 00:02:17,804 --> 00:02:25,078 CONSIDERED KEY TO PROMOTING DEMOCRACY. BUT WITH A NEW COLD WAR DESCENDING, AND A HOT WAR 17 00:02:25,144 --> 00:02:33,853 BLAZING IN THE HEART OF EUROPE, RFE/RL, AS THEY'RE ALSO KNOWN, ARE BACK IN VOGUE. WITH A $20 MILLION BOOST FROM 18 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:44,264 CONGRESS, THE U.S. TAXPAYER FUNDED BROADCASTERS ARE BEAMING AND STREAMING ORIGINAL CONTENT -- MOSTLY VIDEO THESE DAYS -- 19 00:02:44,330 --> 00:02:55,308 INTO MANY OF THE SAME FORMER SOVIET REPUBLICS THEY TARGETED IN THE 1950s. 20 00:03:00,313 --> 00:03:09,856 MARIAN KUSHNIR IS A FAMILIAR FACE ON RADIO FREE EUROPE. [ SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH ] A UKRAINIAN WAR CORRESPONDENT, 21 00:03:09,923 --> 00:03:25,038 HE'S BEEN SLOGGING ALONGSIDE HIS COUNTRY'S TROOPS WITH HIS CAMERA EVER SINCE THE RUSSIANS INVADED. WE SPOKE WITH HIM IN NOVEMBER 22 00:03:25,104 --> 00:03:32,445 FROM A PRAGUE CONTROL ROOM ALONGSIDE HIS EDITOR. KUSHNIR WAS IN BAKHMUT, UNDER SIEGE BY RUSSIAN TROOPS. 23 00:03:32,512 --> 00:03:38,217 >> Translator: I WILL SAY THIS IN UKRAINIAN. THIS IS THE PLACE WHERE THEY HELP UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS WHO COME 24 00:03:38,284 --> 00:03:45,124 HERE FROM THE FRONTLINE. THIS IS A FIELD HOSPITAL. THERE ARE ABOUT 100 WOUNDED IN HERE. 25 00:03:45,191 --> 00:03:51,397 >> YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ROUTINE OF IT ALL, BUT DOES IT FEEL TO YOU THAT YOU ARE DAILY PUTTING YOURSELF IN HARM'S WAY? 26 00:03:51,464 --> 00:03:57,870 >> Translator: THIS IS THE WAR. I AM ALWAYS AT RISK. EVEN BEING RIGHT HERE IN THIS HOSPITAL, I UNDERSTAND THAT NEXT 27 00:03:57,937 --> 00:04:05,178 TO IT SOME SHELLING IS HAPPENING RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, BUT EVERYONE IN UKRAINE IS NOW IN DANGER. 28 00:04:05,244 --> 00:04:13,920 >> KUSHNIR'S HARROWING ACCOUNTS CAN BE SEEN IN MANY FORMATS: LIVE TELEVISION, YOUTUBE, TIKTOK, CONVEYING AS MUCH AS HE 29 00:04:13,987 --> 00:04:33,473 CAN THE REALITY OF HUMANITY'S ULTIMATE FOLLY. >> Translator: THE WAR FOR ME IS THE STENCH OF BLOOD, GUNPOWDER, 30 00:04:33,539 --> 00:04:38,378 SWEPT, SWEAT, AND CONSTANT MUD. AND THERE IS NO ROMANCE ABOUT THE WAR. 31 00:04:38,444 --> 00:04:43,650 IT IS ABOUT FEAR, GRIEF AND TEARS. NO FOOTAGE, PHOTOS OR WORDS CAN EXPRESS WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT 32 00:04:43,716 --> 00:04:47,286 HERE ON THE BATTLEFIELD. >> WE'RE AN INTERNATIONAL, PUBLIC BROADCASTER. AND WE OPERATE IN COUNTRIES 33 00:04:47,353 --> 00:04:51,591 WHERE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS EITHER DOES NOT EXIST OR IS UNDER ASSAULT. >> JAMIE FLY, A FORMER ADVISER 34 00:04:51,658 --> 00:04:57,997 TO THE GEORGE W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION, IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF RADIO FREE EUROPE/RADIO LIBERTY, WHICH HAS 35 00:04:58,064 --> 00:05:05,972 BEEN BASED IN PRAGUE, THE CAPITAL OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC, SINCE 1995. >> WE'RE FUNDED BY THE U.S. 36 00:05:06,039 --> 00:05:13,146 CONGRESS. BUT BY LAW, WE'RE EDITORIALLY INDEPENDENT OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. 37 00:05:13,212 --> 00:05:17,950 >> TODAY IT'S NOT JUST RADIO, IT'S MOSTLY VIDEO, CORRECT? >> YEAH. SO WE CONSTANTLY ARE DEBATING 38 00:05:18,017 --> 00:05:23,790 WHEN TO CHANGE THE NAME. AND THAT MAY COME IN THE YEARS AHEAD. >> SO IT'S MOSTLY SEEN ON THE 39 00:05:23,856 --> 00:05:27,627 INTERNET? >> IT VARIES, DEPENDING ON WHAT MARKET WE'RE IN. IN IRAN, WE'RE ON RADIO. 40 00:05:27,694 --> 00:05:33,266 PAKISTAN WE'RE AVAILABLE ON RADIO. BUT IN PLACES LIKE RUSSIA, BELARUS, UKRAINE, PEOPLE ARE 41 00:05:33,332 --> 00:05:45,244 PRIMARILY ENGAGING WITH OUR CONTENT ON SOCIAL MEDIA. >> THIS MODERN NEWSROOM IS LIKE A JOURNALISTIC VERSION OF THE 42 00:05:45,311 --> 00:05:55,321 UNITED NATIONS. EACH SERVICE, RUSSIAN, UKRAINIAN, IRANIAN AND 19 OTHERS, IS MADE UP OF EMIGRES 43 00:05:55,388 --> 00:06:05,331 AND EXPATS FROM THOSE COUNTRIES. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN NEWSROOMS AND BROADCAST FACILITIES. >> YOU CAN READ OUR JOURNALISTIC 44 00:06:05,398 --> 00:06:09,702 STANDARDS DOCUMENT ONLINE. AND WE HAVE A RIGOROUS EDITORIAL PROCESS THAT DETERMINES WHAT WE COVER. 45 00:06:09,769 --> 00:06:17,343 >> I VISIT AS MANY OF OUR 20 BUREAUS AS POSSIBLE. >> RUSSIA'S MULTIBILLION DOLLAR EFFORT TO PUSH DISINFORMATION 46 00:06:17,410 --> 00:06:24,951 ABROAD HAS GIVEN THE COLD WAR RADIOS NEW LIFE. THEY'RE ADDING TWO NEW BUREAUS AND CONSTRUCTING STUDIOS HERE IN 47 00:06:25,017 --> 00:06:35,495 PRAGUE FOR AN ADDITIONAL RUSSIAN LANGUAGE CHANNEL FEATURING DOCUMENTARIES, MUSIC, AND COMEDIES. 48 00:06:35,561 --> 00:06:39,031 >> THIS IS YOUR AREA OF COVERAGE? >> YES. FLY SAYS 40 MILLION PEOPLE FROM 49 00:06:39,098 --> 00:06:45,304 23 COUNTRIES ACROSS THIS BROAD LANDMASS TUNE INTO THEIR COVERAGE. 11 MILLION INSIDE RUSSIA, 50 00:06:45,371 --> 00:06:51,711 DESPITE THE KREMLIN'S LABELLING THEM A "FOREIGN AGENT." >> THAT IS A COMMON REFRAIN WE HEAR FROM THE KREMLIN, FROM 51 00:06:51,778 --> 00:07:00,186 AUTHORITARIANS THAT DON'T LIKE US. AND WE'VE DEALT WITH THAT BY BEING VERY TRANSPARENT. 52 00:07:00,253 --> 00:07:03,890 WE COVER GOVERNMENTS, EVEN GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE FRIENDLY TOWARDS THE U.S. JUST AS TOUGH AS WE COVER THE KREMLIN. 53 00:07:03,956 --> 00:07:13,533 >> RADIO FREE EUROPE WAS CREATED AND NURTURED BY LEGENDARY COLD WARRIORS, INCLUDING DIPLOMAT GEORGE KENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR 54 00:07:13,599 --> 00:07:23,376 ALLEN DULLES, AND PRESIDENTS TRUMAN, EISENHOWER, AND KENNEDY. >> THIS PLACE, IT OOZES WITH, WITH HISTORY. 55 00:07:23,442 --> 00:07:28,147 CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE DRIVING FORCE, THE SOUL OF THIS PLACE? >> CERTAINLY FOR THE 56 00:07:28,214 --> 00:07:36,255 JOURNALISTS, IT'S A COMMITMENT TO THE TRUTH. WE LIVE RIGHT NOW IN WHAT, WHAT SOME WOULD CALL A POST-TRUTH AGE 57 00:07:36,322 --> 00:07:42,962 WHERE PEOPLE INCREASINGLY DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN AN OBJECTIVE TRUTH. BUT THIS WAS AN ORGANIZATION IN 58 00:07:43,029 --> 00:07:49,902 THE 1950s THAT WAS FOUNDED ON THE NOTION THAT THERE IS AN OBJECTIVE TRUTH. >> RADIO FREE EUROPE COMBATS THE 59 00:07:49,969 --> 00:07:57,376 SOVIET LIE WITH 21 TRANSMITTERS! >> ONE TRUTH THE BROADCASTERS STILL STRUGGLE WITH IS THE FACT THAT THEY WERE ORIGINALLY FUNDED 60 00:07:57,443 --> 00:08:05,651 BY THE CIA. CONGRESS ENDED THAT AFFILIATION IN 1971, AND MANDATED THE RADIOS OPERATE WITHOUT ANY U.S. 61 00:08:05,718 --> 00:08:13,459 GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE. BUT THAT HASN'T STOPPED OTHER GOVERNMENTS FROM INTERFERING WITH THEM. 62 00:08:13,526 --> 00:08:21,400 >> THE HISTORY OF RADIO FREE EUROPE IS FILLED WITH COLD WAR INTRIGUE. THE AMERICAN BROADCASTER HAS 63 00:08:21,467 --> 00:08:27,740 BEEN A PERENNIAL TARGET OF SOVIET AND LATER RUSSIAN SPIES. A NUMBER OF DEADLY PLOTS HAVE BEEN FOILED, INCLUDING ONE TO 64 00:08:27,807 --> 00:08:36,649 POISON SALTSHAKERS IN THE CAFETERIA. STILL, SOME HIGH-PROFILE JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN 65 00:08:36,716 --> 00:08:41,454 ASSASSINATED. INCLUDING RFE HOST AND BULGARIAN DISSIDENT GEORGI MARKOV, WHO WAS JABBED WITH A POISONED UMBRELLA 66 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:50,963 TIP IN LONDON IN 1978. THE TERRORIST KNOWN AS "CARLOS THE JACKAL" BOMBED ITS MUNICH HEADQUARTERS IN 1981. 67 00:08:51,030 --> 00:08:59,405 ALL TOLD, 18 RADIO FREE EUROPE JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN KILLED. TWO ARE IMPRISONED IN BELARUS. ONE IN CRIMEA. 68 00:08:59,472 --> 00:09:08,414 PAVEL BUTORIN RUNS RFE'S 24/7 RUSSIAN LANGUAGE TELEVISION CHANNEL, CURRENT TIME. HE TOLD US VIEWERSHIP HAS SOARED 69 00:09:08,481 --> 00:09:17,924 SINCE THE INVASION OF UKRAINE. >> HOW MANY VIEWERS ARE YOU GETTING? >> FOR TV ALONE, WE REPORT 70 00:09:17,990 --> 00:09:26,866 6.2 MILLION WEEKLY VIEWS. BUT FOR DIGITAL PLATFORMS THIS YEAR, WE'VE REPORTED 3 BILLION ONLINE VIEWS. 71 00:09:26,933 --> 00:09:34,807 >> HE SAYS MANY RUSSIANS WATCH THEIR LIVE YOUTUBE FEED IN SECRET, USING "VIRTUAL PRIVATE NETWORKS." 72 00:09:34,874 --> 00:09:40,079 RECENTLY THESE STICKERS STARTED SHOWING UP IN RUSSIAN CITIES. THEY APPEAR TO BE ADS FOR CHEAP SUGAR, BUT WHEN YOU SCAN THE 73 00:09:40,146 --> 00:09:54,660 BARCODES... >> THE QR CODE, THOSE QUICK RESPONSE CODES TOOK YOU TO THE CURRENT TIMES WEBSITE. 74 00:09:54,727 --> 00:10:01,000 ANOTHER ONE WAS, YOU KNOW, IKEA SALE. BUT THE ACTUAL QR CODE TOOK YOU TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL. 75 00:10:01,067 --> 00:10:05,538 AND WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. >> IN 2022, THE KREMLIN TURNED BACK THE CLOCK. 76 00:10:05,604 --> 00:10:11,510 IT BANNED INDEPENDENT MEDIA OUTLETS, FORCED RFE'S MOSCOW BUREAU TO SHUT DOWN, AND MADE IT ILLEGAL TO CALL RUSSIA'S ACTION 77 00:10:11,577 --> 00:10:18,017 IN UKRAINE A "WAR"...WITH PUNISHMENT UP TO 15 YEARS IN JAIL. AS ANCHOR OF CURRENT TIME'S 78 00:10:18,084 --> 00:10:27,893 NIGHTLY NEWSCAST, KSENIA SOKOLYANSKAYA FLOUTS THAT LAW NEARLY EVERY DAY. BORN AND RAISED IN MOSCOW, SHE 79 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,666 IS ESSENTIALLY EXILED HERE IN PRAGUE. >> DO YOU THINK YOU WILL BE ABLE TO GO HOME SOME DAY? 80 00:10:33,733 --> 00:10:40,639 >> I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW. >> REALLY? >> THERE IS A CHANCE, YOU KNOW, THAT ME OR ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES 81 00:10:40,706 --> 00:10:49,482 COULD BE, YOU KNOW, DETAINED STRAIGHT AT THE AIRPORT. I THINK THERE IS A REASON WHY ALMOST EVERY FAIR JOURNALIST 82 00:10:49,548 --> 00:10:56,389 LEFT THE COUNTRY SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THOSE OF US FROM OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY, 83 00:10:56,455 --> 00:11:02,294 WHAT'S HAPPENING IN RUSSIA? >> I THINK THAT THINGS ARE MOVING IN A VERY SCARY DIRECTION. 84 00:11:02,361 --> 00:11:12,805 I'M SURE THAT THIS WAR BRINGS DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES, NOT ONLY FOR UKRAINE AND UKRAINIANS, BUT FOR RUSSIA AND RUSSIANS. 85 00:11:12,872 --> 00:11:20,146 >> A MILLION RUSSIAN CITIZENS HAVE FLED THE COUNTRY IN THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF. INCLUDING THESE FOUR RADIO FREE 86 00:11:20,212 --> 00:11:26,152 EUROPE JOURNALISTS WHO, UNTIL RECENTLY, WORKED IN ITS MOSCOW BUREAU. >> JOURNALISTS ARE FATALISTS, I 87 00:11:26,218 --> 00:11:30,222 THINK, ESPECIALLY RUSSIAN JOURNALISTS. >> FATALISTS? >> FATALISTS, YES. 88 00:11:30,289 --> 00:11:36,562 >> SERGEI DOBRYNIN IS AN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER. >> DO ALL OF YOU EXPECT TO RETURN TO RUSSIA? 89 00:11:36,629 --> 00:11:40,766 >> NOT BEFORE PUTIN DIES, I THINK. >> IT'S HOME, THOUGH. >> YES. 90 00:11:40,833 --> 00:11:50,743 I STILL CONSIDER RUSSIA TO BE, TO BE "HOME." BUT, TO ME, RUSSIA IS OCCUPIED BY PUTIN, AND ALSO RUSSIAN 91 00:11:50,810 --> 00:11:57,650 PEOPLE ARE OCCUPIED, MANY OF THEM, BY RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA. >> NATALYA DZHANPOLADOVA COVERS HUMAN RIGHTS. 92 00:11:57,716 --> 00:12:09,662 >> WHEN I CAME TO RFE/RL, I UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS MEDIA GIVES YOU A CHANCE TO TELL THE TRUTH, TO COVER YOUR STORIES AS YOU SEE 93 00:12:09,728 --> 00:12:17,670 IT, AS YOU WANT TO PRESENT IT. AND THERE IS NO PRESSURE OF SOME GUIDELINES FROM THE GOVERNMENT. >> ANASTASIA TISHCHENKO IS AT 94 00:12:17,736 --> 00:12:25,678 ODDS WITH BOTH HER COUNTRY AND HER PARENTS, WHO BELIEVE RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA. >> I TRY TO SEND THEM MY 95 00:12:25,744 --> 00:12:31,984 REPORTS, BUT THEY STILL BELIEVE NOT TO ME, BUT SAY, STILL BELIEVE TO RUSSIAN TELEVISION. THEY'RE AFRAID OF TRUTH. 96 00:12:32,051 --> 00:12:39,358 >> AFRAID OF THE TRUTH? >> I GUESS. THAT'S HOW PROPAGANDA WORKS. >> ALEXEY ALEXANDROV DID A STINT 97 00:12:39,425 --> 00:12:46,398 INSIDE UKRAINE BEFORE LEAVING RUSSIA. >> AFTER THE WAR BEGINS, I DECIDED THAT I WOULD LIKE TO GO 98 00:12:46,465 --> 00:12:59,378 BACK TO UKRAINE, NOT RUSSIA. BECAUSE I FEEL RESPONSIBLE IN A WAY FOR THIS WAR. >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU FEEL 99 00:12:59,445 --> 00:13:08,354 RESPONSIBLE? >> AS A PART OF RUSSIAN SOCIETY. AND PROBABLY I WILL LIKE TO GO BACK TO UKRAINE TO HELP THE 100 00:13:08,420 --> 00:13:14,193 PEOPLE IN UKRAINE TO REBUILD THEIR COUNTRY. >> HIS RADIO FREE EUROPE COLLEAGUES INSIDE UKRAINE HAVE 101 00:13:14,260 --> 00:13:21,734 BEEN DOING JUST THAT. NATALIE SEDLETSKA IS HOST AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF AN INVESTIGATIVE NEWS SERIES. 102 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:33,179 HER REPORTING HELPED EXPOSE THE CORRUPTION OF FORMER UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VIKTOR YANUKOVYCH, WHO FLED TO RUSSIA. 103 00:13:33,245 --> 00:13:37,917 NOW SHE'S UNCOVERING BIGGER CRIMES. >> WHEN THE FULL-SCALE WAR STARTED, ME AND MY TEAM, WE 104 00:13:37,983 --> 00:13:50,563 FOUND OUT THAT OUR INVESTIGATIVE SKILLS CAN REALLY HELP NOW, IN NEW REALITY. AND WE STARTED TO INVESTIGATE 105 00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:58,971 RUSSIAN ATROCITIES IN UKRAINE. >> YOU UNCOVERED, YOU DOCUMENTED WAR CRIMES. >> THAT'S TRUE. 106 00:13:59,038 --> 00:14:10,449 YOU'VE HEARD OF BUCHA, RIGHT? UNFORTUNATELY, THERE ARE DOZENS IF NOT HUNDREDS OF SUCH CITIES THAT SUFFERED SO MUCH FROM 107 00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:21,794 RUSSIAN ATROCITIES. >> BUCHA WAS THE SITE OF THE MASS MURDER OF UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS BY RUSSIAN TROOPS. 108 00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:29,635 SEDLETSKA WORKS IN RFE'S KYIV BUREAU UNDER CONSTANT THREAT OF RUSSIAN MISSILES. >> IF YOU CAN IMAGINE ANY 109 00:14:29,702 --> 00:14:43,916 TRAGEDY, A MOTHER LOST HER CHILD. A CHILD LOST HIS MOTHER AND DAD. LIKE, IMAGINE ALL HORRIBLE 110 00:14:43,983 --> 00:14:52,858 THINGS, THEY ARE GOING ON NOW IN MY COUNTRY. >> AND YOU'VE DECIDED TO STAY? >> BEING A REPORTER IN UKRAINE, 111 00:14:52,925 --> 00:14:59,198 IT'S OUR MISSION OF COURSE. SO WHY I'M TELLING YOU THESE STORIES? BECAUSE I'M AFRAID OF UNTOLD 112 00:14:59,265 --> 00:15:09,675 STORIES. I'M AFRAID THAT WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TELL ALL THE TRUTHS THAT IS GOING ON BECAUSE SO MUCH IS 113 00:15:09,742 --> 00:15:10,109 GOING ON. 114 00:15:20,119 --> 00:15:26,959 >>> IN WHAT YEAR WILL THE HUMAN POPULATION GROW TOO LARGE FOR THE EARTH TO SUSTAIN? THE ANSWER IS ABOUT 1970 115 00:15:27,026 --> 00:15:35,334 ACCORDING TO RESEARCH BY THE WORLD WILDLIFE FUND. IN 1970, THE PLANET'S 3.5 BILLION PEOPLE WERE 116 00:15:35,401 --> 00:15:42,174 SUSTAINABLE. BUT ON THIS NEW YEAR'S DAY, THE POPULATION IS 8 BILLION. TODAY, WILD PLANTS AND ANIMALS 117 00:15:42,241 --> 00:15:52,418 ARE RUNNING OUT OF PLACES TO LIVE. THE SCIENTISTS YOU'RE ABOUT TO MEET SAY THE EARTH IS SUFFERING 118 00:15:52,484 --> 00:15:58,791 A CRISIS OF MASS EXTINCTION ON A SCALE UNSEEN SINCE THE DINOSAURS. WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU A 119 00:15:58,857 --> 00:16:07,499 POSSIBLE SOLUTION, BUT FIRST, HAVE A LOOK AT HOW HUMANITY IS ALREADY SUFFERING FROM THE VANISHING WILD. 120 00:16:07,566 --> 00:16:17,209 IN WASHINGTON STATE, THE SALISH SEA HELPED FEED THE WORLD. >> WITH THIS WEATHER AND THE WAY THINGS FEEL ONCE I GET OUT HERE, 121 00:16:17,276 --> 00:16:24,483 IT'S TIME TO BE FISHING, THAT'S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. >> COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN DANA WILSON SUPPORTED A FAMILY ON THE 122 00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:38,664 SALISH SEA'S LEGENDARY WEALTH OF SALMON. HE REMEMBERS PROPELLERS CHURNING THE BLAINE OFF WASHINGTON AND 123 00:16:38,731 --> 00:17:00,652 CRANES STRAINING FOR THE STATE'S $200 MILLION ANNUAL CATCH. 124 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:07,226 >> THAT USED TO BE A BUYING STATION, THEY'RE GONE NOW, THEY DON'T BUY ANYMORE. SO, THAT BUILDING OVER THERE 125 00:17:07,292 --> 00:17:11,930 USED TO BUY SALMON, THEY DON'T BUY SALMON ANYMORE, IT'S JUST NOT HERE. >> IN 1991, ONE SALMON SPECIES 126 00:17:11,997 --> 00:17:16,268 WAS ENDANGERED. TODAY, 14 SALMON POPULATIONS ARE FOUNDERING. THEY'VE BEEN CROWDED OUT OF 127 00:17:16,335 --> 00:17:20,172 RIVERS BY HABITAT DESTRUCTION, WARMING, AND POLLUTION. DANA WILSON USED TO FISH ALL SUMMER. 128 00:17:20,239 --> 00:17:24,543 TODAY, A CONSERVATION AUTHORITY GRANTS RARE, FLEETING PERMISSION TO THROW A NET. >> THERE WAS A SEASON. 129 00:17:24,610 --> 00:17:28,714 >> THERE WAS A SEASON. >> NOW THERE'S A DAY? >> THERE'S A DAY, AND SOMETIMES IT'S HOURS. 130 00:17:28,781 --> 00:17:33,652 SOMETIMES YOU MIGHT GET 12 HOURS, 16 HOURS, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOWN TO. >> HERE, THE VANISHING WILD 131 00:17:33,719 --> 00:17:37,289 SCUTTLED A WAY OF LIFE THAT BEGAN WITH NATIVE TRIBES 1,000 YEARS AGO. >> I DON'T REMEMBER ANYBODY 132 00:17:37,356 --> 00:17:42,528 DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN SALMON FISHING. >> FISHERMAN ARMANDO BRIONEZ, IS A MEMBER OF THE LUMMI TRIBE 133 00:17:42,594 --> 00:17:48,534 WHICH CALLS ITSELF "PEOPLE OF THE SALMON." HE DIDN'T IMAGINE THE RICH HARVEST WOULD END WITH HIS FIVE 134 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:54,173 FISHING BOATS. >> ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, "WELL, HOW AM I GONNA MAKE THAT PAYCHECK 135 00:17:54,239 --> 00:18:00,612 FOR MY FAMILY?" WELL, FOR ME, IT WAS LIKE, WELL, I HAVE A BACKUP, FOR A BACKUP, FOR A BACKUP. 136 00:18:00,679 --> 00:18:06,852 >> BRIONEZ'S "BACKUPS" INCLUDE HIS NEW FOOD TRUCK, SWITCHING TO CRAB FISHING, AND CONSULTING ON CANNABIS FARMS. 137 00:18:06,919 --> 00:18:19,998 HIS SCRAMBLE TO ADAPT IS BEING REPEATED AROUND THE WORLD. A WORLD WILDLIFE FUND STUDY SAYS THAT IN THE PAST 50 YEARS, THE 138 00:18:20,065 --> 00:18:27,406 ABUNDANCE OF GLOBAL WILDLIFE HAS COLLAPSED 69%, MOSTLY FOR THE SAME REASON. >> TOO MANY PEOPLE, TOO MUCH 139 00:18:27,473 --> 00:18:35,714 CONSUMPTION AND GROWTH MANIA. >> AT THE AGE OF 90, BIOLOGIST PAUL EHRLICH MAY HAVE LIVED LONG ENOUGH TO SEE SOME OF HIS DIRE 140 00:18:35,781 --> 00:18:43,222 PROPHECIES COME TRUE. >> YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING THAT HUMANITY IS NOT SUSTAINABLE? >> OH, HUMANITY IS NOT 141 00:18:43,288 --> 00:18:47,626 SUSTAINABLE. TO MAINTAIN OUR LIFESTYLE, YOURS AND MINE, BASICALLY, FOR THE ENTIRE PLANET, YOU'D NEED FIVE 142 00:18:47,693 --> 00:18:52,130 MORE EARTHS. NOT CLEAR WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO COME FROM. >> JUST IN TERMS OF THE 143 00:18:52,197 --> 00:18:57,402 RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED? >> RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED, THE SYSTEMS THAT 144 00:18:57,469 --> 00:19:04,676 SUPPORT OUR LIVES, WHICH OF COURSE ARE THE BIODIVERSITY THAT WE'RE WIPING OUT. HUMANITY IS VERY BUSILY SITTING 145 00:19:04,743 --> 00:19:14,353 ON A LIMB THAT WE'RE SAWING OFF. >> IN 1968, EHRLICH, A BIOLOGY PROFESSOR AT STANFORD, BECAME A DOOMSDAY CELEBRITY WITH A 146 00:19:14,419 --> 00:19:23,061 BEST-SELLER FORECASTING THE COLLAPSE OF NATURE. >> WHEN "THE POPULATION BOMB" CAME OUT, YOU WERE DESCRIBED AS 147 00:19:23,128 --> 00:19:28,667 AN ALARMIST. >> I WAS ALARMED. I AM STILL ALARMED. ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES ARE 148 00:19:28,734 --> 00:19:35,974 ALARMED. >> THE ALARM EHRLICH SOUNDED IN '68 WARNED THAT OVERPOPULATION WOULD TRIGGER WIDESPREAD FAMINE. 149 00:19:36,041 --> 00:19:42,814 HE WAS WRONG ABOUT THAT. THE GREEN REVOLUTION FED THE WORLD. BUT HE ALSO WROTE IN '68 THAT 150 00:19:42,881 --> 00:19:55,961 HEAT FROM GREENHOUSE GASES WOULD MELT POLAR ICE AND HUMANITY WOULD OVERWHELM THE WILD. TODAY, HUMANS HAVE TAKEN OVER 151 00:19:56,028 --> 00:20:04,069 70% OF THE PLANET'S LAND AND 70% OF THE FRESHWATER. >> THE RATE OF EXTINCTION IS EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH NOW AND 152 00:20:04,136 --> 00:20:11,243 GETTING HIGHER ALL THE TIME. >> WE KNOW THE RATE OF EXTINCTION IS "EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH" BECAUSE OF A STUDY OF THE 153 00:20:11,310 --> 00:20:18,617 FOSSIL RECORD BY BIOLOGIST TONY BARNOSKY, EHRLICH'S STANFORD COLLEAGUE. >> THE DATA ARE ROCK SOLID. 154 00:20:18,684 --> 00:20:24,690 I DON'T THINK YOU'LL FIND A SCIENTIST THAT WILL SAY WE'RE NOT IN AN EXTINCTION CRISIS. >> BARNOSKY'S RESEARCH SUGGESTS 155 00:20:24,756 --> 00:20:35,033 TODAY'S RATE OF EXTINCTION IS UP TO 100 TIMES FASTER THAN IS TYPICAL IN THE NEARLY 4 BILLION YEAR HISTORY OF LIFE. 156 00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:40,672 THESE PEAKS REPRESENT THE FEW TIMES THAT LIFE COLLAPSED GLOBALLY. AND THE LAST WAS THE DINOSAURS, 157 00:20:40,739 --> 00:20:52,684 66 MILLION YEARS AGO. >> THERE ARE FIVE TIMES IN EARTH'S HISTORY WHERE WE HAD MASS EXTINCTIONS. 158 00:20:52,751 --> 00:21:02,461 AND BY MASS EXTINCTIONS, I MEAN AT LEAST 75%, THREE-QUARTERS OF THE KNOWN SPECIES DISAPPEARING FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH. 159 00:21:02,527 --> 00:21:08,266 NOW WE'RE WITNESSING WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CALLING THE SIXTH MASS EXTINCTION WHERE THE SAME THING COULD HAPPEN ON OUR WATCH. 160 00:21:08,333 --> 00:21:17,309 >> IT'S A HORRIFIC STATE OF THE PLANET WHEN COMMON SPECIES, THE UBIQUITOUS SPECIES THAT WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH ARE DECLINING. 161 00:21:17,376 --> 00:21:27,185 >> TONY BARNOSKY'S COLLEAGUE IN THE STUDY OF EXTINCTION IS HIS WIFE, BIOLOGIST LIZ HADLY, FACULTY DIRECTOR AT STANFORD'S 162 00:21:27,252 --> 00:21:32,758 JASPER RIDGE RESEARCH PRESERVE IN CALIFORNIA. >> YOU KNOW, I SEE IT IN MY MIND AND IT'S REALLY A SAD STATE. 163 00:21:32,824 --> 00:21:40,399 IF YOU'VE SPENT ANY TIME IN CALIFORNIA, YOU KNOW THE LOSS OF WATER. THE LOSS OF WATER MEANS THAT 164 00:21:40,465 --> 00:21:44,836 THERE ARE DEAD SALMON YOU SEE IN THE RIVER RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES. BUT IT ALSO MEANS THE DEMISE OF 165 00:21:44,903 --> 00:21:52,644 THOSE BIRDS THAT RELY ON THE SALMON FISHERY, EAGLES. IT MEANS, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE MINKS AND OTTERS THAT RELY ON 166 00:21:52,711 --> 00:21:59,117 FISH. IT MEANS THAT OUR HABITATS THAT WE'RE USED TO, THE FORESTS THAT, YOU KNOW, 3,000-YEAR-OLD FORESTS 167 00:21:59,184 --> 00:22:08,326 ARE GOING TO BE GONE. SO IT MEANS SILENCE. AND IT MEANS SOME VERY CATASTROPHIC EVENTS BECAUSE IT'S 168 00:22:08,393 --> 00:22:15,734 HAPPENING SO QUICKLY. >> IT MEANS YOU LOOK OUT YOUR WINDOW, AND THREE-QUARTERS OF WHAT YOU THINK OUGHT TO BE THERE 169 00:22:15,801 --> 00:22:27,345 IS NO LONGER THERE. THAT'S WHAT MASS EXTINCTION LOOKS LIKE. >> WHAT WE SEE JUST IN 170 00:22:27,412 --> 00:22:31,750 CALIFORNIA IS, YOU KNOW, THE LOSS OF OUR ICONIC STATE SYMBOLS. WE HAVE NO MORE GRIZZLY BEARS IN 171 00:22:31,817 --> 00:22:36,288 CALIFORNIA. >> THE ONLY GRIZZLY BEARS IN CALIFORNIA ARE ON THE STATE FLAG? 172 00:22:36,354 --> 00:22:40,826 >> THAT'S OUR STATE MAMMAL AND THEY ARE NOT HERE ANYMORE. >> IS IT TOO MUCH TO SAY THAT WE'RE KILLING THE PLANET? 173 00:22:40,892 --> 00:22:51,870 >> NO. >> I WOULD SAY IT'S TOO MUCH TO SAY THAT WE'RE KILLING THE PLANET, BECAUSE THE PLANET'S 174 00:22:51,937 --> 00:22:56,908 GOING TO BE FINE. WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE KILLING OUR WAY OF LIFE. >> THE WORST OF THE KILLING IS 175 00:22:56,975 --> 00:23:04,282 IN LATIN AMERICA WHERE THE WORLD WILDLIFE FUND STUDY SAYS THE ABUNDANCE OF WILDLIFE HAS FALLEN 94% SINCE 1970. 176 00:23:04,349 --> 00:23:12,891 BUT IT WAS ALSO IN LATIN AMERICA THAT WE FOUND THE POSSIBILITY OF HOPE. >> MEXICAN ECOLOGIST 177 00:23:12,958 --> 00:23:18,563 GERARDO CEBALLOS IS ONE OF THE WORLD'S LEADING SCIENTISTS ON EXTINCTION. HE TOLD US THE ONLY SOLUTION IS 178 00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:27,539 TO SAVE THE ONE-THIRD OF THE EARTH THAT REMAINS WILD. TO PROVE IT, HE'S RUNNING A 3,000-SQUARE-MILE EXPERIMENT. 179 00:23:27,606 --> 00:23:36,882 IN THE CALAKMUL BIOSPHERE RESERVE NEAR GUATEMALA, HE IS PAYING FAMILY FARMERS TO STOP CUTTING THE FOREST. 180 00:23:36,948 --> 00:23:43,355 >> WE'RE GOING TO PAY EACH FAMILY CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS MORE THAN YOU WILL GET CUTTING DOWN THE FOREST, IF YOU 181 00:23:43,421 --> 00:23:51,797 PROTECT IT. >> AND HOW MUCH ARE YOU PAYING OUT EVERY YEAR? >> FOR INSTANCE, EACH FAMILY 182 00:23:51,863 --> 00:24:00,872 HERE WILL GET AROUND $1,000. >> MORE THAN ENOUGH, HERE, TO MAKE UP FOR LOST FARMLAND. IN TOTAL, THE PAYOUTS COME TO 183 00:24:00,939 --> 00:24:10,315 $1.5 MILLION A YEAR. OR ABOUT $2,000 PER SQUARE MILE. THE TAB IS PAID THROUGH THE CHARITY OF WEALTHY DONORS. 184 00:24:10,382 --> 00:24:20,826 >> THE INVESTMENT TO PROTECT WHAT IS LEFT IS, I MEAN, REALLY SMALL. >> THE PAYOFF ON THAT INVESTMENT 185 00:24:20,892 --> 00:24:28,934 IS BEING COLLECTED ON CEBALLOS' JUNGLE CAMERAS. 30 YEARS AGO THE JAGUAR WAS VERY NEARLY EXTINCT IN MEXICO. 186 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:35,307 NOW CEBALLOS SAYS THEY'VE REBOUNDED TO ABOUT 600 IN THE RESERVE. >> THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHERE 187 00:24:35,373 --> 00:24:41,546 THERE ARE RESERVES AROUND THE WORLD WHERE THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO INCREASE THE POPULATIONS OF CERTAIN SPECIES. 188 00:24:41,613 --> 00:24:52,691 BUT, I WONDER, ARE ALL THESE LITTLE SUCCESS STORIES ENOUGH TO PREVENT MASS EXTINCTION? >> ALL THE BIG SUCCESS THAT WE 189 00:24:52,757 --> 00:25:00,966 HAVE IN PROTECTING FORESTS AND RECOVERING ANIMALS, LIKE TIGERS IN INDIA, JAGUARS IN MEXICO, ELEPHANTS IN BOTSWANA, AND SO 190 00:25:01,032 --> 00:25:08,773 ON, ARE INCREDIBLE, AMAZING SUCCESSES. BUT THEY ARE LIKE GRAINS OF SAND IN A BEACH. 191 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:16,781 AND TO REALLY MAKE A BIG IMPACT WE NEED TO SCALE UP THIS 10,000 TIMES. SO, THEY ARE IMPORTANT BECAUSE 192 00:25:16,848 --> 00:25:23,088 THEY GIVE US HOPE. BUT THEY ARE COMPLETELY INSUFFICIENT TO COPE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE. 193 00:25:23,154 --> 00:25:29,461 >> SO WHAT WOULD THE WORLD HAVE TO DO? >> WHAT WE WILL HAVE TO DO IS REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE 194 00:25:29,527 --> 00:25:38,937 CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE SPECIES EXTINCTION IS A THREAT TO HUMANITY. AND THEN PULL ALL THE MACHINERY 195 00:25:39,004 --> 00:25:51,116 OF SOCIETY, POLITICAL, ECONOMIC, AND SOCIAL, TOWARDS FINDING SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS. >> FINDING SOLUTIONS TO THE 196 00:25:51,182 --> 00:25:56,922 PROBLEMS WAS THE GOAL TWO WEEKS AGO, AT THE U.N. BIODIVERSITY CONFERENCE WHERE NATIONS AGREED TO CONSERVATION TARGETS. 197 00:25:56,988 --> 00:26:05,797 BUT AT THE SAME MEETING IN 2010 THOSE NATIONS AGREED TO LIMIT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE EARTH BY 2020, AND NOT ONE OF THOSE GOALS 198 00:26:05,864 --> 00:26:17,776 WAS MET. THIS, DESPITE THOUSANDS OF STUDIES INCLUDING THE CONTINUING RESEARCH OF STANFORD BIOLOGIST 199 00:26:17,842 --> 00:26:23,014 PAUL EHRLICH. >> YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS NO POLITICAL WILL TO DO ANY OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING. 200 00:26:23,081 --> 00:26:35,460 >> I KNOW THERE'S NO POLITICAL WILL TO DO ANY OF THE THINGS THAT I'M CONCERNED WITH, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY I AND THE VAST 201 00:26:35,527 --> 00:26:42,367 MAJORITY OF MY COLLEAGUES THINK WE'VE HAD IT, THAT THE NEXT FEW DECADES WILL BE THE END OF THE KIND OF CIVILIZATION WE'RE USED 202 00:26:42,434 --> 00:26:49,074 TO. >> IN THE 50 YEARS SINCE EHRLICH'S "POPULATION BOMB," HUMANITY'S FEASTING ON RESOURCES 203 00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:58,717 HAS TRIPLED. WE'RE ALREADY CONSUMING 175% OF WHAT THE EARTH CAN REGENERATE. AND, CONSIDER HALF OF HUMANITY, 204 00:26:58,783 --> 00:27:07,258 ABOUT 4 BILLION LIVE ON LESS THAN $10 A DAY. THEY ASPIRE TO CARS, AIR-CONDITIONING, AND A RICH 205 00:27:07,325 --> 00:27:15,633 DIET. BUT THEY WON'T BE FED BY THE FISHERMEN OF WASHINGTON'S SALISH SEA INCLUDING ARMANDO BRIONEZ. 206 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,837 >> THE TRIBE HAS BEEN FISHING SALMON HERE FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS? >> YEAH. 207 00:27:18,903 --> 00:27:26,711 >> AND YOUR GENERATION IS SEEING THE END OF THAT? >> IT'S GETTING HARDER AND HARDER. 208 00:27:26,778 --> 00:27:35,520 I HATE TO SAY, I DON'T WANT TO SAY IT'S THE END OF IT. >> WHY DO YOU FEEL SO EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO THIS? 209 00:27:35,587 --> 00:27:44,496 >> IT'S EVERYTHING WE KNOW. I'M FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO KNOW WHERE I KNOW A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. 210 00:27:44,562 --> 00:27:54,706 I'VE DONE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS IN MY LIFE. I'VE GOTTEN GOOD AT EVOLVING AND CHANGING. 211 00:27:54,773 --> 00:28:05,216 BUT NOT EVERYBODY HERE IS BUILT LIKE THAT. TO SOME OF US THIS IS WHAT THEY KNOW, THIS IS ALL THEY KNOW. 212 00:28:05,283 --> 00:28:15,894 >> THE FIVE MASS EXTINCTIONS OF THE ANCIENT PAST WERE CAUSED BY NATURAL CALAMITIES, VOLCANOES, AND AN ASTEROID. 213 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:21,766 TODAY, IF THE SCIENCE IS RIGHT, HUMANITY MAY HAVE TO SURVIVE A SIXTH MASS EXTINCTION IN A WORLD OF ITS OWN MAKING. 214 00:28:35,046 --> 00:28:43,088 >>> ALMOST HALF OF AMERICAN ADULTS HAVE OBESITY, A CONDITION THAT WAS A FRACTION OF THAT JUST 40 YEARS AGO, AND SCIENTISTS 215 00:28:43,154 --> 00:28:50,829 DON'T AGREE ON WHAT'S CAUSED THE DRAMATIC INCREASE. WHAT EVERYONE DOES AGREE ON IS THAT IT'S A MAJOR HEALTH CRISIS, 216 00:28:50,895 --> 00:29:01,406 BECAUSE OBESITY CAN CAUSE TYPE 2 DIABETES, HYPERTENSION, STROKE, AND MORE THAN A DOZEN CANCERS. NOW THERE'S A MEDICATION THAT 217 00:29:01,473 --> 00:29:10,448 LEADS TO DRAMATIC WEIGHT LOSS. BUT IT'S WILDLY EXPENSIVE. HOLLYWOOD CELEBRITIES TAKE IT TO FLATTEN THEIR TUMMIES, BUT FEW 218 00:29:10,515 --> 00:29:19,591 CAN AFFORD THE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IT COSTS A YEAR. AND VERY FEW INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL COVER IT, EVEN THOUGH, IN 219 00:29:19,657 --> 00:29:26,798 2013 THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, SOME WOULD SAY FINALLY RECOGNIZED OBESITY AS A DISEASE. 220 00:29:26,865 --> 00:29:33,304 >> IT'S A BRAIN DISEASE. >> IT IS? >> IT'S A BRAIN DISEASE. AND THE BRAIN TELLS US HOW MUCH 221 00:29:33,371 --> 00:29:42,180 TO EAT AND HOW MUCH TO STORE. >> DR. FATIMA CODY STANFORD, AN OBESITY DOCTOR AT MASS GENERAL HOSPITAL AND ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR 222 00:29:42,247 --> 00:29:47,852 AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL, SAYS COMMON BELIEFS ABOUT OBESITY ARE ALL WRONG. >> IT IS YOUR TURN TO GET ON 223 00:29:47,919 --> 00:29:54,692 THAT SCALE. >> AND DIET SHOWS LIKE "THE BIGGEST LOSER" -- >> YOU LOST 128 POUNDS! 224 00:29:54,759 --> 00:30:03,234 -- ARE SNOOKERING PEOPLE. >> IF YOU DIET, YOU LOSE WEIGHT, RIGHT? >> FOR MANY OF US, WE CAN GO ON 225 00:30:03,301 --> 00:30:07,805 A DIET. SOMETHING LIKE "THE BIGGEST LOSER," RIGHT? YOU GO AND YOU RESTRICT PEOPLE. 226 00:30:07,872 --> 00:30:15,046 YOU MAKE THEM WORK OUT FOR TEN HOURS A DAY AND THEN YOU FEED THEM 500 CALORIES. FOR MOST PEOPLE, THEY WILL 227 00:30:15,113 --> 00:30:21,486 ACUTELY LOSE WEIGHT. BUT 96% OF THOSE PARTICIPANTS IN "THE BIGGEST LOSER" REGAINED THEIR WEIGHT BECAUSE THEIR BRAIN 228 00:30:21,553 --> 00:30:25,423 WORKED WELL. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BRING THEM BACK TO STORE WHAT THEY NEEDED OR WHAT THE BRAIN THINKS IT 229 00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:32,096 NEEDS. >> SO, WILLPOWER? >> THROW THAT OUT THE WINDOW. MY LAST PATIENT THAT I SAW TODAY 230 00:30:32,163 --> 00:30:43,041 WAS A YOUNG WOMAN WHO'S 39 WHO STRUGGLES WITH SEVERE OBESITY. SHE'S BEEN WORKING OUT FIVE TO SIX TIMES A WEEK, CONSISTENTLY. 231 00:30:43,107 --> 00:30:48,947 SHE'S EATING VERY LITTLE. HER BRAIN IS DEFENDING A CERTAIN SET POINT. >> A SET POINT, SAYS 232 00:30:49,013 --> 00:30:55,620 DR. STANFORD, IS A RANGE OF WEIGHT YOUR BRAIN IS IN CHARGE OF MAINTAINING BY CONTROLLING HOW MUCH FOOD YOU EAT AND HOW 233 00:30:55,687 --> 00:31:03,094 MUCH OF IT YOU STORE. ONE THEORY IS THAT IT'S AN EVOLUTIONARY SURVIVAL MECHANISM THAT HELPED RETAIN FAT DURING 234 00:31:03,161 --> 00:31:09,567 FAMINES. >> SO WE HAD COVID. LOTS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE GAINED WEIGHT. 235 00:31:09,634 --> 00:31:15,340 DID THOSE PEOPLE HAVE A NEW SET POINT THAT'S HIGHER NOW? >> ABSOLUTELY. SO WHEN YOU HAVE A CHRONIC 236 00:31:15,406 --> 00:31:21,079 STRESSOR AND YOU GET TO A CERTAIN WEIGHT AND MAINTAIN THAT WEIGHT FOR, LET'S SAY, AT LEAST THREE TO SIX MONTHS, THEN YOU 237 00:31:21,145 --> 00:31:26,417 RECALIBRATE THAT SET POINT TO A DIFFERENT SET POINT. >> I'VE ALWAYS HEARD THAT IT'S THE FAST FOOD. 238 00:31:26,484 --> 00:31:32,257 THAT IT'S THE DIET COKES, THAT KINDA THING, THAT IS THE INSTIGATOR. IS THAT TRUE? 239 00:31:32,323 --> 00:31:37,495 >> SO I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT CAUSES OF OBESITY AS A BIG PIE. AND THAT'S ONE FACTOR. 240 00:31:37,562 --> 00:31:42,767 BUT NOTICE HOW I'M USING THIS PART OF THE PIE, RIGHT? >> BUT THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF OBESITY IS GENETICS. 241 00:31:42,834 --> 00:31:52,277 THAT MEANS IF YOU WERE BORN TO PARENTS THAT HAVE OBESITY, YOU HAVE A 50-85% LIKELIHOOD OF HAVING THE DISEASE YOURSELF EVEN 242 00:31:52,343 --> 00:32:01,185 WITH OPTIMAL DIET, EXERCISE, SLEEP MANAGEMENT, STRESS MANAGEMENT, SO WHEN PEOPLE SEE FAMILIES THAT HAVE OBESITY, THE 243 00:32:01,252 --> 00:32:09,627 ASSUMPTION IS, "UGH, WHAT ARE THEY FEEDING THOSE KIDS? THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG." ACTUALLY, DO YOU KNOW THIS? 244 00:32:09,694 --> 00:32:13,731 79-90% OF PHYSICIANS IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE SIGNIFICANT BIAS TOWARDS INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE HEAVIER. 245 00:32:13,798 --> 00:32:22,340 NOW, DOCTORS LISTENING TO ME MAY SAY, "OH, IT'S NOT ME." HOLD YOUR HORSES, BECAUSE HAS THAT PATIENT COME TO YOU AND 246 00:32:22,407 --> 00:32:30,181 TOLD YOU, "LOOK, DOC, I'M EATING WELL." "LOOK, DOC, I'M EXERCISING." AND THE DOC SAYS TO THEM, "ARE 247 00:32:30,248 --> 00:32:35,086 YOU SURE? I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING." >> WAIT, ARE YOU SAYING THAT 248 00:32:35,153 --> 00:32:40,692 DOCTORS DON'T UNDERSTAND OBESITY? DOCTORS? >> DOCTORS DO NOT UNDERSTAND 249 00:32:40,758 --> 00:32:47,365 OBESITY. >> IN ONE OF HER PUBLISHED STUDIES, DR. STANFORD FOUND THAT MOST MEDICAL SCHOOLS DON'T TEACH 250 00:32:47,432 --> 00:32:53,938 THAT OBESITY IS A DISEASE AND, IN FACT, DON'T EVEN OFFER COURSES ON IT, EACH THOUGH IT'S THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF 251 00:32:54,005 --> 00:33:04,082 PREVENTIBLE DEATH IN THE COUNTRY AFTER SMOKING. >> NICOLE SAMS, MOTHER OF FIVE FROM RHODE ISLAND, SPENT YEARS 252 00:33:04,148 --> 00:33:10,288 GOING TO DOCTORS WHO ALL HAD THE SAME MESSAGE. >> "WELL, YOU JUST HAVE TO GO SEE A DIETITIAN." 253 00:33:10,355 --> 00:33:15,827 AND I DID. I DID EVERYTHING I WAS TOLD TO DO. I WENT TO A DIETITIAN, YOU KNOW, 254 00:33:15,893 --> 00:33:19,330 I SAT, HAD THE RUBBER FOODS COME IN FRONT OF ME, "OH, YOU'LL ONLY EAT THIS PORTION," I'M LIKE, "OH." 255 00:33:19,397 --> 00:33:27,705 >> MAYA COHEN WENT ON HER FIRST DIET WHEN SHE WAS 13. AT HER HEAVIEST, AT 5 FEET TALL, SHE WEIGHED 192 POUNDS. 256 00:33:27,772 --> 00:33:35,113 >> DID YOU FEEL THAT PEOPLE LOOKED AT YOU AND SAID, "WHY DOESN'T SHE STOP EATING? SHE'S EATEN HER WAY TO THAT"? 257 00:33:35,179 --> 00:33:49,994 >> YOU KNOW YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE AND YOU INTERNALIZE, "OH, THEY SO IT'S JUST AFTER A WHILE YOU JUST PERSONALLY THINK THAT, 258 00:33:50,061 --> 00:33:54,065 "OKAY, EVERYONE'S TELLING ME THAT I'M -- THAT THIS IS A FLAW IN MY CHARACTER," THEREFORE IT MUST BE TRUE. 259 00:33:54,132 --> 00:33:57,969 AND SO YOU START BELIEVING THIS. >> DON'T YOU THINK IF PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET WITH OBESITY, STIGMATIZED AS THEY 260 00:33:58,035 --> 00:34:03,307 ARE, SHUNNED, DON'T YOU THINK IF THEY COULD LOSE WEIGHT AND KEEP IT OFF, THEY WOULD? >> DR. CAROLINE APOVIAN, 261 00:34:03,374 --> 00:34:10,515 CO-DIRECTOR OF THE WEIGHT MANAGEMENT AND WELLNESS CENTER AT BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL IN BOSTON -- 262 00:34:10,581 --> 00:34:19,524 >> EXERCISE IS GOOD. I'M WALKING A LOT. -- WHO SEES BOTH MAYA COHEN AND NICOLE SAMS IS RELIEVED THAT AT 263 00:34:19,590 --> 00:34:23,728 LAST SHE HAS A HIGHLY EFFECTIVE MEDICATION TO OFFER HER PATIENTS THAT'S SAFE, ACCORDING TO THE FDA. 264 00:34:23,795 --> 00:34:33,771 >> WHAT THE MEDICATION DOES... >> IT'S PART OF A NEW GENERATION OF MEDICATIONS THAT BRINGS ABOUT AN IMPRESSIVE AVERAGE LOSS OF 15 265 00:34:33,838 --> 00:34:44,315 TO 22% OF A PERSON'S WEIGHT, AND IT HELPS KEEP IT OFF. DRS. APOVIAN AND STANFORD HAVE BEEN ADVISING COMPANIES 266 00:34:44,382 --> 00:34:51,189 DEVELOPING DRUGS FOR OBESITY, INCLUDING THE DANISH COMPANY NOVO NORDISK, AN ADVERTISER ON THIS BROADCAST. 267 00:34:51,255 --> 00:35:01,632 IT MAKES THE DRUG, WEGOVY, THAT YOU INJECT YOURSELF ONCE A WEEK WITH SOMETHING LIKE AN EPIPEN. IT'S NOT EASY TO GET. 268 00:35:01,699 --> 00:35:07,772 THE DRUG IS CURRENTLY IN SHORT SUPPLY. AND IT COSTS MORE THAN $1,300 A MONTH. 269 00:35:07,839 --> 00:35:12,343 >> PEOPLE IN HOLLYWOOD CAN AFFORD THESE EXPENSIVE INJECTIONS. AND THEY'RE TAKING THEM. 270 00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:18,115 >> RIGHT. >> AND THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY PEOPLE WITH OBESITY. >> YEAH. 271 00:35:18,182 --> 00:35:24,121 WE HAVE A NATIONAL SHORTAGE ON THESE MEDICATIONS. IF THOSE THAT HAVE THE MEANS ARE ABLE TO GET THEM, YET THE PEOPLE 272 00:35:24,188 --> 00:35:31,329 THAT REALLY NEED THEM ARE UNABLE TO, THEN THAT CREATES A GREATER DISPARITY, RIGHT? THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOT'S. 273 00:35:31,395 --> 00:35:41,906 >> THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WITH OBESITY SIMPLY CAN'T AFFORD WEGOVY AND MOST INSURANCE COMPANIES REFUSE TO COVER IT 274 00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:49,780 PARTLY BECAUSE, AS A-HIP -- THE HEALTH INSURANCE TRADE ASSOCIATION -- EXPLAINED IN A STATEMENT, THESE DRUGS "HAVE NOT 275 00:35:49,847 --> 00:35:57,722 YET BEEN PROVEN TO WORK WELL FOR LONG-TERM WEIGHT MANAGEMENT AND CAN HAVE COMPLICATIONS AND ADVERSE IMPACTS ON PATIENTS." 276 00:35:57,788 --> 00:36:05,329 >> WHAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR IS REALLY NAUSEA, VOMITING, YOU KNOW THAT'S WHY THESE DRUGS ARE DOSED SLOWLY AND STARTING WITH 277 00:36:05,396 --> 00:36:12,069 LOW DOSES. >> OH, AND BUILD UP? >> AND BUILD UP. >> DR. APOVIAN SAYS MOST OF THE 278 00:36:12,136 --> 00:36:25,716 SIDE EFFECTS GO AWAY OVER TIME. >> WE ARE FRUSTRATED EVERY SINGLE DAY WHEN WE SEE PATIENTS WHO DESPERATELY NEED TO LOSE 279 00:36:25,783 --> 00:36:29,487 WEIGHT TO REDUCE THE DIABETES, REDUCE THE HYPERTENSION, STROKE, HEART DISEASE, AND WE CAN'T GIVE THEM THIS FABULOUS, ROBUST 280 00:36:29,554 --> 00:36:36,794 MEDICATION THAT IS VERY EFFECTIVE AND SAFE. AND WE CAN'T GIVE IT TO THEM BECAUSE INSURANCE WON'T COVER 281 00:36:36,861 --> 00:36:50,541 IT. I RECEIVE EMAILS ABOUT DENIALS, THAT STATE THAT WE'RE DENYING THIS BECAUSE "THE DOCTOR HAS NOT 282 00:36:50,608 --> 00:36:58,449 COUNSELLED THE PATIENT ON BEHAVIOR CHANGE AS PART OF THIS." THAT'S WHERE THE STIGMA OF 283 00:36:58,516 --> 00:37:05,890 OBESITY COMES IN, THE IDEA THAT THE PATIENT CAN DO IT WITH DIET AND EXERCISE. YOU WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO A 284 00:37:05,957 --> 00:37:13,331 PATIENT WITH HYPERTENSION OR HEART DISEASE OR TYPE 2 DIABETES, TELL THEM THAT YOU "JUST DON'T EAT SUGAR, YOU'LL BE 285 00:37:13,397 --> 00:37:22,773 FINE." >> NOVO NORDISK ALSO MAKES A DRUG FOR TYPE 2 DIABETES CALLED OZEMPIC, WHICH MOST INSURERS AND 286 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:32,283 WHAT FRUSTRATES THE DOCTORS IS THAT OZEMPIC AND WEGOVY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME DRUG, THOUGH WEGOVY FOR OBESITY IS USUALLY 287 00:37:32,350 --> 00:37:41,158 PRESCRIBED AT A HIGHER DOSAGE. WHEN MAYA COHEN WANTED THE MEDICATION FOR OBESITY... >> MY INSURANCE COMPANY TOLD ME 288 00:37:41,225 --> 00:37:47,064 THAT THEY CONSIDER IT A "VANITY DRUG." >> A "VANITY DRUG." >> SO THAT SUGGESTS THAT THE 289 00:37:47,131 --> 00:37:53,337 INSURANCE COMPANY DOES NOT CONSIDER OBESITY A DISEASE. >> CORRECT. >> NICOLE WAS ALSO DENIED 290 00:37:53,404 --> 00:38:01,278 COVERAGE. ON ITS WEBSITE, HER HEALTH PLAN, THROUGH THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND, PUTS ANTI-OBESITY 291 00:38:01,345 --> 00:38:10,254 MEDICATIONS IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS DRUGS FOR ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION AND COSMETIC PURPOSES. 292 00:38:10,321 --> 00:38:17,128 THERE ARE ABOUT 110 MILLION AMERICANS ELIGIBLE FOR AN ANTI-OBESITY MEDICATION, MAKING IT A COSTLY INVESTMENT FOR 293 00:38:17,194 --> 00:38:27,171 INSURANCE, BUT IF THEY COVERED IT, OVERALL GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE HEALTHCARE SPENDING WOULD PROBABLY COME DOWN. 294 00:38:27,238 --> 00:38:33,511 JUST TAKE DIABETES, THAT IS, IN MANY CASES, CAUSED BY OBESITY. DIABETES COSTS MORE THAN $300 BILLION A YEAR, MOST OF 295 00:38:33,577 --> 00:38:39,083 WHICH IS COVERED THROUGH MEDICARE AND MEDICAID. BUT UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO HEALTHCARE ECONOMIST 296 00:38:39,150 --> 00:38:46,724 TOMAS PHILIPSON POINTS OUT THAT THERE'S ACTUALLY A LAW THAT PREVENTS MEDICARE FROM COVERING WEIGHT LOSS DRUGS. 297 00:38:46,791 --> 00:38:56,200 >> YOU WOULD THINK THAT THAT INSURANCE PROGRAM FOR OLDER ADULTS WOULD SEE AN ENORMOUS BENEFIT TO THESE DRUGS? 298 00:38:56,267 --> 00:39:04,175 >> YEAH, A THIRD OF MEDICARE SPENDING IS DIABETES, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS HIGHLY WITH -- TIED TO OBESITY. 299 00:39:04,241 --> 00:39:08,345 AND MEDICARE KIND OF SEES ALL THE HEALTHCARE EXPENSES WHEN YOU GET OLDER WHEN YOU HAVE HEART DISEASE, ET CETERA, FROM YOUR 300 00:39:08,412 --> 00:39:15,453 OBESITY. I THINK WHAT ULTIMATELY WILL DRIVE IT IS THAT THEY HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY 301 00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:20,491 GOING TO LOWER TOTAL MEDICARE COSTS. >> GREAT, GREAT. >> WHEN DR. APOVIAN TOLD BOTH 302 00:39:20,558 --> 00:39:30,201 MAYA COHEN AND NICOLE SAMS THAT THEIR OBESITY WAS NOT A WEAKNESS OF WILLPOWER, THEY WERE BLOWN AWAY. 303 00:39:30,267 --> 00:39:34,405 >> I LOOKED AT HER AND I SAID, "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, 'IT'S NOT MY FAULT'? 304 00:39:34,472 --> 00:39:41,212 IT IS MY FAULT." BECAUSE IT'S WHAT I HEARD FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE. >> I WENT HOME THAT DAY LIKE A 305 00:39:41,278 --> 00:39:44,949 BOULDER HAD COME OFF MY SHOULDERS. LIKE, "OKAY, THERE'S FINALLY HOPE. 306 00:39:45,015 --> 00:39:49,186 THERE'S HOPE." >> DID YOU CRY? >> I DID. A LOT. 307 00:39:49,253 --> 00:39:58,162 [ LAUGHTER ] >> ALL THOSE YEARS OF THINKING THAT SOMEHOW YOU HAVE NO WILLPOWER AND IT'S YOUR MORAL 308 00:39:58,229 --> 00:40:03,434 FAILING AND YOU'RE A GLUTTON AND WHY DID YOU EAT SO MUCH AND -- FEELING SHAME. IT'S THE SHAME. 309 00:40:03,501 --> 00:40:11,375 >> YEAH, YEAH. IT'S THE SHAME. >> IT'S THE SHAME. >> MAYA WAS ULTIMATELY ABLE TO 310 00:40:11,442 --> 00:40:19,283 GET THE MEDICATION COVERED BY HER INSURANCE, BECAUSE SHE HAS TYPE 2 DIABETES. SHE'S LOST MORE THAN 50 POUNDS. 311 00:40:19,350 --> 00:40:26,657 DR. APOVIAN SAYS SHE DOES HAVE TO CONTINUE DIETING AND EXERCISING AND LIKE MOST PATIENTS, WILL BE TAKING THE 312 00:40:26,724 --> 00:40:37,701 DRUG INDEFINITELY TO MAINTAIN HER WEIGHT. NICOLE DOESN'T HAVE TYPE 2 DIABETES. 313 00:40:37,768 --> 00:40:42,006 >> NICOLE, WE CALLED YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY AND THEY GAVE US A STATEMENT. >> OKAY. 314 00:40:42,072 --> 00:40:50,014 >> "EARLIER THIS YEAR THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND, IN CONSULTATION WITH ITS PHARMACY BENEFITS MANAGER, DECIDED THAT HEALTH 315 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:59,423 INSURANCE FOR THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND EMPLOYEES WOULD COVER THE ENTIRE CLASS OF ANTI-OBESITY DRUGS." 316 00:40:59,490 --> 00:41:04,228 >> OH -- REALLY? >> "THIS COVERAGE CHANGE GOES INTO EFFECT JANUARY." >> OKAY. 317 00:41:04,295 --> 00:41:09,500 >> -- 2023. >> I'M SO HAPPY FOR YOU. >> YES, THIS IS GREAT, THIS IS GREAT. 318 00:41:09,567 --> 00:41:19,143 [ CLAPS ] WOW, WOW. >> IN ITS STATEMENT, THE HEALTH INSURANCE TRADE ASSOCIATION SAID 319 00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:25,883 "OBESITY IS A COMPLEX DISEASE AND THE EVIDENCE AND CLINICAL GUIDELINES RELATED TO OBESITY TREATMENT...ARE EVOLVING 320 00:41:25,950 --> 00:41:32,022 RAPIDLY. HEALTH INSURANCE PROVIDERS WILL CONTINUE TO REVIEW THE CLINICAL EVIDENCE. 321 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:51,375 >>> THE SCIENCE OF WEIGHT MANAGEMENT 322 00:41:54,245 --> 00:42:03,220 >>> "THE LAST MINUTE" OF "60 MINUTES" IS SPONSORED BY UNITED HEALTH CARE. GET MEDICARE WITH MORE. 323 00:42:03,287 --> 00:42:09,360 >>> LAST NIGHT MARKED NOT ONLY THE END OF A YEAR, BUT ALSO THE END OF AN ERA. DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, AT 82, 324 00:42:09,426 --> 00:42:17,568 PRESIDENT BIDEN'S CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER AND DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE STEPPED 325 00:42:17,635 --> 00:42:26,243 DOWN AFTER NEARLY 39 YEARS. IN EIGHT "60 MINUTES" STORIES, DR. FAUCI SPOKE WITH OUR LATE COLLEAGUE ED BRADLEY ABOUT THE 326 00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:33,584 DEVELOPMENT OF AIDS DRUGS, WITH US ABOUT QUESTIONABLE "CURES" FOR AIDS. >> LESLEY STAHL ASKED ABOUT DRUG 327 00:42:33,651 --> 00:42:43,694 RESISTANT "SUPERBUGS." STEVE KROFT TALKED WITH HIM ABOUT H5N1 BIRD FLU. IN 2016, IT WAS 328 00:42:43,761 --> 00:42:51,235 MOSQUITO-BORNE ZIKA. AND RECENTLY, COVID-19. DR. FAUCI SPOKE DIRECTLY, IN LANGUAGE THE AVERAGE AMERICAN 329 00:42:51,302 --> 00:42:58,976 COULD UNDERSTAND. AND HE WASN'T AFRAID OF A LITTLE CONTROVERSY IN THE SERVICE OF SCIENCE AND MEDICINE. 330 00:42:59,043 --> 00:43:02,680 I'M SCOTT PELLEY. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES."