1
00:00:00,834 --> 00:00:14,481
and FORD.
We go further, so you can.
>> HER NAME-- HER REAL NAME-- IS
REALITY WINNER.
2
00:00:14,547 --> 00:00:21,488
SHE'S AN AIR FORCE VETERAN,
ACCUSED OF ESPIONAGE, WHO SPENT
FOUR YEARS BEHIND BARS FOR
LEAKING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION
3
00:00:21,554 --> 00:00:29,963
TO THE MEDIA.
DID SHE DO "EXCEPTIONALLY GRAVE
DAMAGE," AS THE PROSECUTORS
SAID, OR DID SHE REVEAL A TRUTH
4
00:00:30,029 --> 00:00:37,270
THAT DEFENDED AMERICA?
>> I'M NOT A TRAITOR.
>> THE YOUNG WOMAN, WITH THE
UNFORGETTABLE NAME, IN HER FIRST
5
00:00:37,337 --> 00:00:39,706
TELEVISION INTERVIEW, TONIGHT.
( TICKING )
6
00:00:42,008 --> 00:00:50,417
>> IS CHINA'S ECONOMY, THE ONLY
ONE TO RIVAL AMERICA'S,
UNDERGOING ANOTHER "REVOLUTION?"
>> CHINA GREW REALLY LAWLESSLY,
7
00:00:50,483 --> 00:00:57,157
CHAOTICALLY, IN THE LAST 40
YEARS, AND THAT'S ALL ABOUT TO
CHANGE.
>> THAT'S BECAUSE THEIR
8
00:00:57,223 --> 00:01:02,629
PRESIDENT BELIEVES CAPITALISM
HAS GONE TOO FAR.
>> PRESIDENT XI IS WITH THE
PEOPLE.
9
00:01:02,695 --> 00:01:08,768
HE IS WITH THE PEASANTS, THE
MIDDLE CLASS.
AND UNLIKE HIS PREDECESSORS, HE
DOESN'T REALLY CARE SO MUCH
10
00:01:08,835 --> 00:01:12,172
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO ELITES.
( TICKING )
11
00:01:14,441 --> 00:01:20,113
>> IT'S ABOUT THINGS THAT SHINE.
AND IT'S ABOUT THE THINGS, YOU
KNOW, THAT SCREAM.
>> SOME OF THE CLOTHES REALLY
12
00:01:20,180 --> 00:01:25,718
SCREAM, RIGHT?
( LAUGHS )
>> SOMETIMES.
>> THE VOICE OF GUCCI'S CREATIVE
13
00:01:25,785 --> 00:01:32,358
DIRECTOR IS A LITTLE OUT OF
TUNE, BY DESIGN.
SOME OF HIS LOOKS SEEM RIPPED
FROM THE BACK OF GRANDMOTHER'S
14
00:01:32,425 --> 00:01:37,897
COUCH, OTHERS FROM A RENO
CABARET.
WE WENT INSIDE THE OPULENT HOUSE
OF GUCCI TO ASK WHY.
15
00:01:37,964 --> 00:01:39,466
( TICKING )
16
00:01:41,968 --> 00:01:46,172
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M ANDERSON COOPER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
17
00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:59,219
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.
THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT,
ON "60 MINUTES."
18
00:02:01,087 --> 00:02:07,760
>> Scott Pelley: A STORY ABOUT
SOMEONE NAMED "REALITY
WINNER" HAS TO START WITH THE
NAME.
19
00:02:07,827 --> 00:02:12,565
HER FATHER, PLAYING ON THE
FAMILY NAME, EXPLAINED HE WANTED
"A REAL WINNER."
AND SO, "REALITY."
20
00:02:12,632 --> 00:02:20,907
MAYBE THAT STILL DOESN'T MAKE
SENSE, BUT IT IS THE LEAST
BAFFLING FACT IN THIS STORY.
REALITY WINNER BECAME AN
21
00:02:20,974 --> 00:02:30,183
INFAMOUS NAME IN 2017 WHEN SHE
WAS ACCUSED OF ESPIONAGE.
SHE WAS HIT WITH THE LONGEST
SENTENCE EVER IMPOSED ON A
22
00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:37,924
CIVILIAN, FOR LEAKING CLASSIFIED
INFORMATION TO THE MEDIA.
NOW RELEASED, SHE SPOKE WITH US.
DID REALITY WINNER DO
23
00:02:37,991 --> 00:02:45,698
"EXCEPTIONALLY GRAVE DAMAGE," AS
THE PROSECUTORS SAID?
OR, DID SHE REVEAL A TRUTH THAT
DEFENDED AMERICA?
24
00:02:45,765 --> 00:02:54,541
IT'S COMPLICATED.
LIKE THE YOUNG WOMAN WITH THE
UNFORGETTABLE NAME.
>> Reality Winner: I AM NOT A
25
00:02:54,607 --> 00:03:04,918
TRAITOR.
I AM NOT A SPY.
I AM SOMEBODY WHO ONLY ACTED OUT
OF LOVE FOR WHAT THIS COUNTRY
26
00:03:04,984 --> 00:03:15,061
STANDS FOR.
>> Pelley: WE MET 30-YEAR-OLD
REALITY WINNER AT HOME IN TEXAS,
AFTER FOUR YEARS BEHIND BARS.
27
00:03:15,128 --> 00:03:25,471
"ESPIONAGE" SEEMED SURPRISING
FOR A WOMAN WHO JOINED THE AIR
FORCE AT 19 AND WON THE AIR
FORCE COMMENDATION MEDAL IN 2016
28
00:03:25,538 --> 00:03:33,046
FOR "600 ENEMIES KILLED IN
ACTION."
SHE DID THAT AS A LINGUIST IN A
COMBAT UNIT FIGHTING SECRET
29
00:03:33,112 --> 00:03:39,185
MISSIONS.
HOW MANY LANGUAGES DO YOU SPEAK?
>> Winner: FARSI, DARI, AND
PASHTO.
30
00:03:39,252 --> 00:03:46,125
>> Pelley: THESE ARE THE
LANGUAGES OF AFGHANISTAN AND
IRAN.
>> Winner: YES.
31
00:03:46,192 --> 00:03:51,798
>> Pelley: BUT HER DUTY STATION
WAS 7,000 MILES AWAY FROM THOSE
COUNTRIES, AT FORT MEADE,
MARYLAND.
32
00:03:51,864 --> 00:03:57,170
WHY ARE YOU AT FORT MEADE?
>> Winner: I'M NOT-- AM I
ALLOWED TO SAY THAT?
>> Alison Grinter: NOPE.
33
00:03:57,236 --> 00:04:01,874
>> Winner: NOPE.
>> Pelley: THAT'S THE VOICE OF
HER LAWYER, WHO HELPED HER STEER
CLEAR OF SECRETS IN OUR
34
00:04:01,941 --> 00:04:11,150
INTERVIEW.
WINNER WOULDN'T SAY IT, BUT AT
FORT MEADE, LINGUISTS
EAVESDROPPED ON COMMUNICATIONS
35
00:04:11,217 --> 00:04:18,124
IN AFGHANISTAN TO IDENTIFY
TARGETS FOR ARMED DRONES.
>> Winner: IT IS NOT SOMETHING I
AM ALLOWED TO DISCUSS.
36
00:04:18,191 --> 00:04:23,930
>> Pelley: SHE DIDN'T DISCUSS
HER MISSION WITH HER MOTHER,
BILLIE WINNER-DAVIS.
>> Billie Winner-Davis: ONLY ONE
37
00:04:23,997 --> 00:04:31,337
CONVERSATION THAT I HAD WITH
HER, DID SHE EVER LET ON HOW
HEAVY HER WORK WAS.
I'LL NEVER FORGET, BECAUSE SHE
38
00:04:31,404 --> 00:04:39,912
SAID, "YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE
WATCHING SOMEBODY ON YOUR SCREEN
AND THAT PERSON GOES 'POOF,'
YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT
39
00:04:39,979 --> 00:04:47,754
YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING RIGHT."
>> Winner: I WAS STARTING TO SEE
IN THE NEWS THAT OUR MISSION HAD
A VERY HIGH CIVILIAN CASUALTY
40
00:04:47,820 --> 00:04:55,395
RATING.
>> Pelley: SHE BEGAN TO FEEL
GUILT, WHILE BATTLING ILLNESS:
DEPRESSION, AND THE EATING
41
00:04:55,461 --> 00:05:04,771
DISORDER, BULIMIA.
SHE LEFT THE AIR FORCE FOR A TOP
SECRET CIVILIAN JOB AT THE
NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY AT FORT
42
00:05:04,837 --> 00:05:15,114
GORDON IN AUGUSTA, GEORGIA.
BUT HERE, IN 2017, SHE SAYS,
WHAT SHE WAS HEARING IN ENGLISH
WORRIED HER FAR MORE THAN
43
00:05:15,181 --> 00:05:21,254
INTERCEPTS IN FARSI AND PASHTO.
>> Trump: IF YOU DON'T CATCH A
HACKER, OKAY, IN THE ACT-- IT'S
VERY HARD TO SAY WHO DID THE
44
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:28,594
HACKING.
>> Pelley: THE PRESIDENT WAS
RAISING DOUBT THAT RUSSIA
ATTACKED THE 2016 ELECTION.
45
00:05:28,661 --> 00:05:32,365
HIS INTERVIEW WITH JOHN
DICKERSON WAS TYPICAL OF THE
TIME.
>> Trump: I'LL GO ALONG WITH
46
00:05:32,432 --> 00:05:37,470
RUSSIA.
COULD HAVE BEEN CHINA; COULD'VE
BEEN A LOT OF DIFFERENT GROUPS.
>> Pelley: BUT IT WAS RUSSIA,
47
00:05:37,537 --> 00:05:44,677
AND THE N.S.A. KNEW IT.
REALITY WINNER HAD SEEN PROOF,
IN A TOP SECRET REPORT ON AN
IN-HOUSE NEWSFEED.
48
00:05:44,744 --> 00:05:54,087
>> Winner: I JUST KEPT THINKING,
"MY GOD, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO STEP
FORWARD AND PUT THIS RIGHT."
"SOMEBODY."
49
00:05:54,153 --> 00:06:02,462
>> Pelley: THE SECRET REPORT
SAID, IN 2016, THE RUSSIAN
MILITARY "EXECUTED CYBER
ESPIONAGE" AGAINST "122 LOCAL
50
00:06:02,528 --> 00:06:11,070
GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS,
TARGETING OFFICIALS INVOLVED IN
THE MANAGEMENT OF VOTER
REGISTRATION SYSTEMS."
51
00:06:11,137 --> 00:06:19,479
IT WAS TOP SECRET, IN PART,
BECAUSE IT REVEALED WHAT THE
U.S. KNEW ABOUT RUSSIAN TACTICS.
WINNER TOLD US SHE WAS EXPOSING
52
00:06:19,545 --> 00:06:28,221
A WHITE HOUSE COVER-UP.
SHE PRINTED THE REPORT, DROPPED
IT IN THIS MAILBOX, ADDRESSED
ANONYMOUSLY TO AN ONLINE NEWS
53
00:06:28,287 --> 00:06:35,394
SOURCE THAT SPECIALIZED IN
GOVERNMENT WRONGDOING.
THE N.S.A. REPORT WAS PUBLISHED
A MONTH LATER.
54
00:06:35,461 --> 00:06:40,500
YOU KNEW IT WAS STAMPED "TOP
SECRET."
YOU KNEW WHAT THAT MEANT.
>> Winner: I KNEW THAT.
55
00:06:40,566 --> 00:06:50,176
I KNEW IT WAS SECRET.
BUT I ALSO KNEW THAT I HAD
PLEDGED SERVICE TO THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE, AND AT THAT POINT IN
56
00:06:50,243 --> 00:06:54,814
TIME, IT FELT LIKE THEY WERE
BEING LED ASTRAY.
>> Pelley: WINNER WAS CAUGHT AS
SOON AS THE TOP SECRET REPORT
57
00:06:54,881 --> 00:07:04,157
SURFACED.
THE N.S.A. COULD SEE ON ITS
NETWORK THAT SHE PRINTED IT.
SHE DROVE HOME TO A NEW REALITY.
58
00:07:04,223 --> 00:07:11,097
>> Winner: A PLAIN BLACK SEDAN
CAME UP BEHIND MY CAR, AND TWO
MEN IN POLO SHIRTS CAME OUT AND
INTRODUCED THEMSELVES AS F.B.I.
59
00:07:11,164 --> 00:07:18,504
AGENTS.
>> Pelley: A TRANSCRIPT SHOWS
THE F.B.I. AGENTS TOLD HER THE
INTERROGATION WAS "VOLUNTARY."
60
00:07:18,571 --> 00:07:25,478
AND THEY DIDN'T MENTION HER
RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY.
WINNER LIED ABOUT MAILING THE
REPORT, THEN CONFESSED, AND WAS
61
00:07:25,545 --> 00:07:32,685
ARRESTED.
THE GOVERNMENT HIT HER WITH THE
MOST SERIOUS POSSIBLE CHARGE:
ESPIONAGE.
62
00:07:32,752 --> 00:07:38,891
BAIL WAS DENIED AFTER
PROSECUTORS TOLD A JUDGE THAT
WINNER WROTE IN HER DIARY THAT
SHE WAS MAD ENOUGH TO "BURN THE
63
00:07:38,958 --> 00:07:46,432
WHITE HOUSE."
THEY SUGGESTED SHE MIGHT DEFECT
TO THE TALIBAN.
TO THE PUBLIC, THEY SAID THIS.
64
00:07:46,499 --> 00:07:52,038
>> Bobby L. Christine: WINNER'S
WILLFUL, PURPOSEFUL DISCLOSURE
CAUSED EXCEPTIONALLY GRAVE
DAMAGE TO U.S. NATIONAL
65
00:07:52,104 --> 00:08:00,112
SECURITY.
>> Pelley: BUT WHAT PROSECUTORS
CALLED "GRAVE DAMAGE" WAS A
BOMBSHELL OF TRUTH TO THE
66
00:08:00,179 --> 00:08:06,853
FEDERAL ELECTION ASSISTANCE
COMMISSION, WHICH HELPS SECURE
THE VOTE.
IN HOURS, THE COMMISSION ISSUED
67
00:08:06,919 --> 00:08:15,528
AN ALERT ON THE "N.S.A. DOCUMENT
LEAK."
IT SPELLED OUT THE TOP SECRET
EMAIL ADDRESSES "UTILIZED BY THE
68
00:08:15,595 --> 00:08:24,537
ATTACKERS," AND URGED OFFICIALS
TO "CHECK EMAIL LOGS."
BLINDSIDED BY WINNER'S
REVELATION, THE COMMISSION
69
00:08:24,604 --> 00:08:33,880
CALLED FOR "FULL DISCLOSURE OF
ELECTION SECURITY INTELLIGENCE."
TWO FORMER OFFICIALS TOLD US,
REALITY WINNER HELPED SECURE THE
70
00:08:33,946 --> 00:08:41,587
2018 MIDTERM ELECTION.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU
LEARNED ABOUT THE ESPIONAGE
CHARGE IS THAT, IN COURT, YOU'RE
71
00:08:41,654 --> 00:08:49,629
NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT
YOU LEAKED OR WHY YOU LEAKED IT.
WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE TOLD THE
JUDGE?
72
00:08:49,695 --> 00:09:00,206
>> Winner: THAT I THOUGHT THIS
WAS THE TRUTH.
BUT ALSO, DID NOT BETRAY OUR
SOURCES AND METHODS.
73
00:09:00,273 --> 00:09:10,149
DID NOT CAUSE DAMAGE.
DID NOT PUT LIVES ON THE LINE.
IT ONLY FILLED IN A QUESTION
MARK THAT WAS TEARING OUR
74
00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:18,324
COUNTRY IN HALF IN MAY 2017.
AND THAT I MEANT NO HARM.
>> Pelley: BUT THERE WAS HARM,
FOR HER.
75
00:09:18,391 --> 00:09:25,965
AS HER CASE DRAGGED ON 16
MONTHS, SHE SAYS DEPRESSION WAS
CONSUMING HER.
HER MOTHER MOVED FROM TEXAS TO
76
00:09:26,032 --> 00:09:37,543
AUGUSTA TO BE WITH HER DAUGHTER.
>> Winner: THERE WOULD JUST BE
TIMES WHEN IT ALMOST WASN'T
WORTH IT TO SEE THE END OF THIS.
77
00:09:37,610 --> 00:09:49,322
AND SO--
>> Pelley: YOU HAD THOUGHTS OF
TAKING YOUR OWN LIFE?
>> Winner: YES.
78
00:09:49,388 --> 00:10:00,933
I STARTED TO PLAN MY SUICIDE.
AND I WOULD DO PRACTICE RUNS.
THE ONLY THING THAT WAS STOPPING
ME WAS MY MOM, BECAUSE SHE WAS
79
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:10,309
STILL IN AUGUSTA.
MY DAD HAD GONE BACK TO TEXAS TO
GO TO WORK, AND I JUST REFUSED
TO LET HER HEAR THAT NEWS BY
80
00:10:10,376 --> 00:10:18,617
HERSELF.
SO, I WOULD GET ON THE PHONE AND
JUST TRY TO TALK AROUND IT AND,
"HEY, THERE'S NO NEED TO STICK
81
00:10:18,684 --> 00:10:25,091
AROUND.
VISITATION'S NOT WORTH IT.
GO BACK TO TEXAS-- JUST GO.
JUST GO."
82
00:10:25,157 --> 00:10:34,800
>> Pelley: HER MOTHER, BILLIE,
HEARD THAT, WHILE SITTING IN ON
OUR INTERVIEW WITH HER DAUGHTER.
>> Pelley: REALITY TOLD US THAT
83
00:10:34,867 --> 00:10:47,580
SHE WAS PLANNING TO KILL
HERSELF.
>> Winner-Davis: I HEARD THAT.
YEAH.
84
00:10:47,646 --> 00:10:56,122
>> Pelley: DID YOU KNOW SHE WAS
IN THAT MUCH TROUBLE?
>> Winner-Davis: I MEAN, THERE
WERE SOME VERY DARK DAYS.
85
00:10:56,188 --> 00:11:03,596
BUT THEN THEY WOULD BE FOLLOWED
BY A BETTER DAY.
I JUST KNEW, WHEN I WAS THERE IN
GEORGIA, I COULDN'T LEAVE.
86
00:11:03,662 --> 00:11:11,971
I COULDN'T LEAVE HER.
>> Pelley: IN 2018, AT THE AGE
OF 26, WINNER PLEADED GUILTY.
THE JUDGE SAID HE WOULD MAKE AN
87
00:11:12,038 --> 00:11:21,047
EXAMPLE OF HER.
SHE SERVED FOUR YEARS BEHIND
BARS, PLUS THREE, NOW, ANSWERING
TO A PROBATION OFFICER.
88
00:11:21,113 --> 00:11:26,285
SHE STILL CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE
CASE.
>> Winner: I'VE HAD FOUR YEARS
OF JUST TRYING TO SAY I'M NOT A
89
00:11:26,352 --> 00:11:37,830
TERRORIST.
I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT
MY ACTUAL ESPIONAGE INDICTMENT.
OR HAVE A SENSE OF
90
00:11:37,897 --> 00:11:48,541
ACCOMPLISHMENT IN HAVING
SURVIVED PRISON.
BECAUSE I'M STILL STAINED BY
THEM ACCUSING ME OF BEING THE
91
00:11:48,607 --> 00:11:57,183
SAME GROUPS THAT I ENLISTED IN
THE AIR FORCE TO FIGHT AGAINST.
SO, I DON'T LET MYSELF FEEL
ANYTHING REGARDING THE ACTUAL
92
00:11:57,249 --> 00:12:06,459
ACT OR THE CHARGE.
UNTIL I CAN LET IT BE KNOWN THAT
I'M NOT WHAT THEY SAID I WAS.
>> Pelley: SHE SERVED HER
93
00:12:06,525 --> 00:12:13,566
SENTENCE DURING PRISON LOCKDOWNS
FOR COVID, AND THE UNREST AFTER
THE POLICE MURDER OF GEORGE
FLOYD.
94
00:12:13,632 --> 00:12:23,175
IN A CELL WITH TWO COMPANIONS--
DEPRESSION AND BULIMIA-- SHE
BECAME SELF-DESTRUCTIVE.
>> Winner: YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME
95
00:12:23,242 --> 00:12:31,550
THAT I HAD TO GIVE IN TO MY
ILLNESS, I PUT IT ON MY BODY.
I CUT MYSELF.
EVERYWHERE.
96
00:12:31,617 --> 00:12:38,524
I COULDN'T LEAVE MY CELL.
I COULDN'T WORK OUT.
AND ALL I COULD DO WAS ASK WHY,
AND ASK WHY.
97
00:12:38,591 --> 00:12:47,099
AND A CHAPLAIN WALKED BY, AND I
ASKED HIM WHY THEY WERE DOING
THIS TO US, AND THAT SAME
CHAPLAIN, THAT I HAD SEEN FOR
98
00:12:47,166 --> 00:12:56,709
TWO YEARS, LOOKED ME IN MY FACE
AND SAID, "NOBODY GIVES A
( BLEEP ) ABOUT Y'ALL IN HERE."
I STARTED GETTING HIGH THAT DAY.
99
00:12:56,775 --> 00:13:06,018
EVERYONE KNOWS THERE'S DRUGS IN
PRISON.
I WAS REDUCED TO BINGEING AND
PURGING, GETTING HIGH EVERY DAY,
100
00:13:06,085 --> 00:13:15,194
AND CUTTING MYSELF.
>> Pelley: HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO
GET CLEAN?
>> Winner: I HAVE.
101
00:13:15,261 --> 00:13:21,867
I JUST AM ASHAMED TO SAY HOW
HARD IT IS.
>> Pelley: IT'S WORTH NOTING HOW
INCONSISTENT THE GOVERNMENT IS
102
00:13:21,934 --> 00:13:29,708
IN THESE CASES.
IN 2008, GREGG BERGERSEN, A
PENTAGON EMPLOYEE, WAS CONVICTED
OF SELLING SECRETS TO THE
103
00:13:29,775 --> 00:13:38,517
CHINESE.
THAT'S HIM, IN F.B.I.
SURVEILLANCE, GETTING HIS POCKET
STUFFED WITH CASH.
104
00:13:38,584 --> 00:13:49,128
HIS SENTENCE WAS SIX MONTHS
SHORTER THAN REALITY WINNER'S.
IN 2012, FORMER ARMY GENERAL AND
C.I.A. DIRECTOR DAVID PETRAEUS
105
00:13:49,195 --> 00:13:57,236
GAVE NOTEBOOKS OF TOP SECRET
INFORMATION TO AN AUTHOR, WHO
WAS HIS MISTRESS.
HE WAS CHARGED WITH MISDEMEANOR
106
00:13:57,303 --> 00:14:03,709
MISHANDLING OF CLASSIFIED
INFORMATION, AND NEVER SPENT A
MINUTE IN JAIL.
WAS IT WORTH IT?
107
00:14:03,776 --> 00:14:18,057
>> Winner: I TRY SO HARD NOT TO
FRAME THINGS AS BEING "WORTH IT"
OR "NOT WORTH IT."
WHAT I KNOW IS THAT I'M HOME
108
00:14:18,123 --> 00:14:30,302
WITH MY PARENTS, AND WE TAKE OUR
LIVES EVERY DAY MOVING FORWARD
AS BEING RICHER IN KNOWING WHAT
TO BE GRATEFUL FOR.
109
00:14:32,404 --> 00:14:39,245
>> Pelley: GRATEFUL, FOR THE
MOMENT, OF HER PRISON RELEASE.
WE SAID THIS STORY IS
COMPLICATED.
110
00:14:39,311 --> 00:14:46,452
ON THE ONE HAND, INDIVIDUALS
CAN'T BE DECIDING WHAT TO
DECLASSIFY.
ON THE OTHER, SOME THINGS ARE
111
00:14:46,518 --> 00:14:55,194
CLASSIFIED TO CONCEAL
WRONGDOING-- TORTURE, IN THE WAR
ON TERROR, FOR EXAMPLE.
IN A HOME IN TEXAS, ONE MOTHER
112
00:14:55,261 --> 00:15:03,702
HAS SIMPLIFIED THE STORY HER
WAY, WITH A PORTRAIT OF A
VETERAN, AND A DISPLAY OF A
COMMENDATION FOR MERITORIOUS
113
00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:12,745
SERVICE TO HER COUNTRY.
>> Winner-Davis: WHAT REALITY
DID WAS NOT ESPIONAGE.
WHAT REALITY DID WAS PATRIOTISM.
114
00:15:12,811 --> 00:15:20,586
SHE ACTUALLY STOOD UP AND WORKED
FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, TO GIVE
US THE TRUTH ABOUT AN ATTACK ON
OUR VOTE, AN ATTACK ON OUR
115
00:15:20,653 --> 00:15:25,991
DEMOCRACY, AN ATTACK ON OUR
COUNTRY.
AND I'M VERY PROUD OF HER FOR
THAT.
116
00:15:26,058 --> 00:15:28,927
( TICKING )
117
00:15:31,630 --> 00:15:38,137
>> HOW RECENT LEAKS OF
GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS HAVE
STIRRED DEBATE OVER THE
ESPIONAGE ACT.
118
00:15:38,203 --> 00:15:44,977
AT 60minutesovertime.com.
119
00:15:46,412 --> 00:15:54,820
>> Lesley Stahl: THERE'S A LOT
TO WORRY ABOUT WITH CHINA THESE
DAYS: ITS MILITARY BUILDUP,
HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES,
120
00:15:54,887 --> 00:16:01,860
INTELLECTUAL ESPIONAGE,
SQUELCHING OF HONG KONG, AND
THREATS TO TAIWAN.
BUT TONIGHT, WE FOCUS ON CHINA'S
121
00:16:01,927 --> 00:16:10,002
UNDOING OF KEY FREE MARKET
POLICIES OF THE LAST 40 YEARS,
THAT CREATED THE ONLY GLOBAL
ECONOMY TO RIVAL OUR OWN.
122
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:18,110
IN A SERIES OF CRACKDOWNS
AGAINST CAPITALISM, STRICT
CONTROLS HAVE BEEN PUT ON
BOOMING SECTORS, HUGE PRIVATE
123
00:16:18,177 --> 00:16:27,486
COMPANIES, AND WEALTHY
INDIVIDUALS.
POLICIES ALL SPRINGING FROM THE
MIND OF ONE MAN.
124
00:16:27,553 --> 00:16:36,495
PRESIDENT XI JINPING IS
POSITIONING HIMSELF AS BIG OR
BIGGER THAN MAO, AND WESTERN
ANALYSTS VIEW HIS SQUEEZE OF THE
125
00:16:36,562 --> 00:16:43,902
PRIVATE SECTOR AS A POWER GRAB.
ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THE SPEED
AND THE FEROCITY OF THESE
CRACKDOWNS?
126
00:16:43,969 --> 00:16:49,641
>> Matt Pottinger: YEAH.
IT'S ONLY THE BEGINNING, IS THE-
- IS THE AMAZING THING.
>> Stahl: MATT POTTINGER WAS
127
00:16:49,708 --> 00:16:56,482
PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NATIONAL
SECURITY ADVISOR ON CHINA, AND
NOW WRITES ABOUT CHINA AT THE
HOOVER INSTITUTION.
128
00:16:56,548 --> 00:17:06,258
TO HIM, THE RECENT CRACKDOWNS
SMACK OF MAOIST REPRESSION.
XI'S DEFENDERS SAY THAT HE'S NOT
KILLING CAPITALISM, HE'S JUST
129
00:17:06,325 --> 00:17:12,331
MODIFYING, GETTING RID OF THE
EXCESSES.
>> Pottinger: I'VE ALWAYS
BELIEVED THAT THE BEST
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00:17:12,398 --> 00:17:17,703
INTERPRETER OF XI JINPING IS XI
JINPING HIMSELF.
>> Stahl: AND WHAT'S HE SAYING,
IN TERMS OF CAPITALISM?
131
00:17:17,770 --> 00:17:23,776
>> Pottinger: WHAT HE SAID, IN
ONE OF HIS MOST IMPORTANT
SPEECHES, HE SAID, "WE WILL SEE
TO IT IN THIS LONG STRUGGLE THAT
132
00:17:23,842 --> 00:17:30,382
CAPITALISM DIES OUT IN THE
WORLD," AND THAT HIS VISION OF
SOCIALISM PREVAILS.
>> Keyu Jin: CHINA GREW REALLY
133
00:17:30,449 --> 00:17:37,623
LAWLESSLY, CHAOTICALLY, IN THE
LAST 40 YEARS.
AND THAT'S ALL ABOUT TO CHANGE.
>> Stahl: ECONOMIST KEYU JIN
134
00:17:37,689 --> 00:17:45,264
SPLITS HER TIME BETWEEN THE
U.K., WHERE SHE TEACHES AT THE
LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS, AND
BEIJING, WHERE HER FATHER IS
135
00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:54,640
PRESIDENT OF ONE OF CHINA'S
LARGEST STATE-OWNED BANKS.
IS XI JINPING KILLING OFF
CAPITALISM IN CHINA?
136
00:17:54,706 --> 00:18:02,648
>> Jin: PRESIDENT XI ENVISIONS
WHAT HE CALLS A "MODERN,
SOCIALIST ECONOMY" FOR CHINA, A
MUCH MORE RESTRICTED CAPITALISM.
137
00:18:02,714 --> 00:18:10,589
PRESIDENT XI IS WITH THE PEOPLE.
HE IS WITH THE PEASANTS, THE
MIDDLE CLASS.
AND UNLIKE HIS PREDECESSORS, HE
138
00:18:10,656 --> 00:18:19,565
DOESN'T REALLY CARE SO MUCH
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO ELITES.
>> Stahl: HIS ATTITUDE TOWARDS
ELITES BECAME CLEAR ABOUT A YEAR
139
00:18:19,631 --> 00:18:28,106
AGO WHEN HE HUMBLED JACK MA,
CHINA'S MOST FAMOUS BILLIONAIRE.
FOUNDER OF ALIBABA, THE
COUNTRY'S BIGGEST E-COMMERCE
140
00:18:28,173 --> 00:18:37,249
COMPANY, JACK MA HAD LONG TESTED
BEIJING'S PATIENCE WITH HIS
GLOBAL HOBNOBBING.
THE BOILING POINT CAME IN
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00:18:37,316 --> 00:18:45,190
OCTOBER 2020, WHEN MA GAVE A
SPEECH CRITICIZING THE
GOVERNMENT'S RULES AND RULE-
MAKERS AS OUTDATED AND STIFLING
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00:18:45,257 --> 00:18:49,528
INNOVATION.
>> Jin: I WAS SITTING IN THE
THIRD ROW.
>> Stahl: DID HE TAKE YOUR
143
00:18:49,595 --> 00:18:55,367
BREATH AWAY?
>> Jin: NO, I WASN'T THAT
SURPRISED, BECAUSE HE TENDS TO
BE VERY VOCAL.
144
00:18:55,434 --> 00:19:00,339
>> Stahl: HE TENDED TO BE VERY
VOCAL.
>> Jin: HE TENDED TO-- THANK YOU
FOR THE CORRECTION.
145
00:19:00,405 --> 00:19:08,280
HE TENDED TO BE VERY VOCAL.
>> Stahl: AFTER THE SPEECH,
ALIBABA HAD TO PAY A HEFTY FINE
OF NEARLY $3 BILLION FOR
146
00:19:08,347 --> 00:19:17,022
MONOPOLISTIC BEHAVIOR.
WORST YET?
MA WAS FORCED BY THE GOVERNMENT
TO CALL OFF THE $37 BILLION
147
00:19:17,089 --> 00:19:23,795
I.P.O. OF ANT, ANOTHER ONE OF
HIS COMPANIES.
AND THEN?
HE SEEMED TO VANISH.
148
00:19:23,862 --> 00:19:31,904
HE RESURFACED THREE MONTHS
LATER, IN THIS VIDEO, QUIET AND
SUBDUED.
BUT THE MESSAGE WAS LOUD AND
149
00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:36,508
CLEAR-- CHINA HAD HAD ENOUGH
WITH ITS INDEPENDENT TECH
SECTOR.
ARGUING IT DEEPENED THE
150
00:19:36,575 --> 00:19:45,017
COUNTRY'S WEALTH GAP,
AUTHORITIES FINED MAJOR SOCIAL
MEDIA AND E-COMMERCE COMPANIES
FOR SQUASHING COMPETITORS;
151
00:19:45,083 --> 00:19:54,560
DELIVERY APPS WERE CHASTISED FOR
UNDERPAYING COURIERS.
ONE BY ONE, THEIR C.E.O.s
STARTED STEPPING DOWN AND/OR
152
00:19:54,626 --> 00:20:00,432
DONATING BILLIONS TO GOVERNMENT
SOCIAL PROJECTS.
>> Jin: THEY ARE JUST DOING MORE
PHILANTHROPY "VOLUNTARILY."
153
00:20:00,499 --> 00:20:04,136
>> Stahl: I LIKE THAT YOU DID
THAT.
>> Jin: YES, NO, NO, NO, IT'S
TRUE.
154
00:20:04,202 --> 00:20:11,944
"VOLUNTARILY" DOING MORE
PHILANTHROPY.
TREATING THEIR WORKERS BETTER.
>> Stahl: TO THE WEST, IT LOOKS
155
00:20:12,010 --> 00:20:19,985
LIKE XI IS KILLING OFF THE
GOLDEN GOOSE, SABOTAGING WHAT
HAS MADE CHINA THE ECONOMIC
POWER THAT IT IS.
156
00:20:20,052 --> 00:20:26,291
>> Jin: THAT IS A COMPLETE
MISINTERPRETATION OF WHAT IS
GOING ON.
CHINA'S TACKLING THE MOST
157
00:20:26,358 --> 00:20:35,233
INTRACTABLE PROBLEMS OF WESTERN
CAPITALISM, AHEAD OF THE WEST.
THE CONCEPT OF REDUCING INCOME
INEQUALITY HAS TO BE DONE ALL
158
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:42,074
OVER THE WORLD, EXCEPT THAT
CHINA'S JUST MUCH FASTER AT
IMPLEMENTING SOME OF THESE
POLICIES.
159
00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:45,811
>> Stahl: BUT ISN'T IT
COMMUNIST?
>> Jin: NO.
BECAUSE IT IS REALLY JUST TO
160
00:20:45,877 --> 00:20:50,582
GIVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO THE
MIDDLE CLASS, AND NOT HAVE THE
TOP 1% TAKE AWAY ALL THE
OPPORTUNITIES.
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00:20:50,649 --> 00:20:55,120
THESE COMPANIES HAVE A BIG
CONTROL OVER-- OVER THE PEOPLE.
>> Stahl: AND NOW THE GOVERNMENT
WILL HAVE THAT.
162
00:20:55,187 --> 00:21:02,327
>> Jin: THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO
TAKE THAT BACK.
ABSOLUTELY.
>> Pottinger: THE PURPOSE IS TO
163
00:21:02,394 --> 00:21:06,898
INSTILL FEAR AND TO INSTILL
LOYALTY AMONG THOSE WHO ARE
LUCKY ENOUGH NOT TO GET PURGED
UNDER-- UNDER THE CURRENT
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00:21:06,965 --> 00:21:15,807
CAMPAIGN.
>> Stahl: MATT POTTINGER SAYS
THE PURGE IS NOT ABOUT CREATING
A FAIRER SOCIETY, BUT OVER
165
00:21:15,874 --> 00:21:22,848
WHO'LL KNOW MORE ABOUT CHINA'S
CITIZENS-- THE COMPANIES, OR THE
COMMUNIST PARTY.
HE POINTS TO A LAW THAT TOOK
166
00:21:22,914 --> 00:21:30,055
EFFECT LAST MONTH, GIVING
OFFICIALS DEEPER CONTROL OVER
PRIVATE PERSONAL INFORMATION.
>> Pottinger: THE PARTY HAS
167
00:21:30,122 --> 00:21:35,894
TAKEN A MACHETE AND SORT OF
WHACKED ITS WAY TOWARD THE
HEADQUARTERS AND C-SUITES OF ALL
OF THESE BIG TECH FIRMS, AND
168
00:21:35,961 --> 00:21:43,368
SAID, "YOUR DATA IS NOW OUR
DATA."
>> Stahl: DO YOU THINK THAT THE
PURPOSE-- THE PURPOSE IN A LOT
169
00:21:43,435 --> 00:21:49,374
OF THESE CRACKDOWNS, IS FOR THE
GOVERNMENT TO GET THEIR HANDS ON
THE DATA?
>> Pottinger: THE CHINESE
170
00:21:49,441 --> 00:21:57,616
GOVERNMENT HAS SAID THAT DATA IS
LIKE THE NEW OIL OF THIS
CENTURY, AND THAT-- THAT WHERE
THE DATA FLOWS, POWER WILL FLOW.
171
00:21:57,683 --> 00:22:06,858
>> Stahl: THE NEW PRIVACY LAW,
IT'S A BIG DEAL.
WHAT ARE THE MAJOR CONCERNS,
ESPECIALLY FOR US IN THE WEST?
172
00:22:06,925 --> 00:22:11,963
>> Pottinger: IF YOU ARE AN
AMERICAN COMPANY OPERATING IN
CHINA, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HAND
OVER YOUR ENCRYPTION KEYS TO THE
173
00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:18,770
CHINESE GOVERNMENT.
WHAT THESE NEW RULES SAY IS THAT
THEY, BY LAW, NOW ALSO HAVE
CONTROL OF YOUR DATA.
174
00:22:18,837 --> 00:22:25,610
>> Stahl: ONE REASON FOR THIS,
THE GOVERNMENT SAYS, IS TO KEEP
CHINA'S DATA FROM REACHING
FOREIGN HANDS THROUGH THE
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00:22:25,677 --> 00:22:35,320
PRIVATE SECTOR.
ONE COMPANY THEY TARGETED WAS
DIDI, CHINA'S VERSION OF UBER.
ITS APP AND FLEET COLLECTED DATA
176
00:22:35,387 --> 00:22:43,195
ON ITS PASSENGERS, AND ON
CHINA'S INFRASTRUCTURE.
DIDI'S PROBLEM STARTED IN JUNE,
WHEN IT HAD GONE PUBLIC WITH AN
177
00:22:43,261 --> 00:22:49,301
I.P.O. ON THE NEW YORK STOCK
EXCHANGE, BUT--
>> Pottinger: ONLY SEVERAL DAYS
AFTER THAT I.P.O. OCCURRED,
178
00:22:49,367 --> 00:22:55,240
BEIJING SUSPENDED THE APP,
BASICALLY MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR
PEOPLE TO DOWNLOAD THE APP.
AND THEY SENT THE MINISTRY OF
179
00:22:55,307 --> 00:23:04,182
STATE SECURITY, WHICH IS CHINA'S
K.G.B., INTO THE OFFICES OF DIDI
TO START ASSESSING AND TAKING
CONTROL OF DIDI'S DATA.
180
00:23:04,249 --> 00:23:12,624
>> Stahl: IT'S NOT JUST DATA.
THE GOVERNMENT IS ALSO CLAMPING
DOWN ON DAILY LIFE AND CULTURE.
THIS SUMMER, AUTHORITIES WENT
181
00:23:12,691 --> 00:23:20,065
AFTER VIDEO GAMING COMPANIES,
AND ENACTED SURPRISING
RESTRICTIONS.
THERE'S A NEW LAW WHERE KIDS CAN
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00:23:20,132 --> 00:23:24,336
ONLY PLAY VIDEO GAMES THREE
HOURS A WEEK.
>> Jin: YES.
>> Stahl: AND THAT WAS JUST BY
183
00:23:24,402 --> 00:23:30,308
EDICT, PERIOD.
AND ONLY ON THE WEEKENDS?
>> Jin: THAT'S CORRECT.
AND I HAVE HEARD MANY OF MY
184
00:23:30,375 --> 00:23:36,047
FRIENDS INTERNATIONALLY SAYING
THEY WISH THAT THEY COULD HAVE
THAT, TOO.
>> Stahl: OH, YEAH!
185
00:23:36,114 --> 00:23:42,320
BUT IT WOULD NEVER WORK IN THE
UNITED STATES-- PARENTS DON'T
WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO TELL US
WHAT TO DO.
186
00:23:42,387 --> 00:23:50,228
>> Jin: IT IS ANATHEMA TO MANY,
THE KIND OF PATERNALISM THAT IS
EXERTED ON SOCIETY.
BUT REALLY, IF YOU ASK THE
187
00:23:50,295 --> 00:24:00,372
CHINESE PEOPLE, THE MAJORITY,
THEY ARE VERY HAPPY WITH HOW
QUICKLY IT'S BEEN DONE.
>> Stahl: NOWHERE WAS THIS MORE
188
00:24:00,438 --> 00:24:07,245
OBVIOUS THAN WHEN THEY
DEMOLISHED THE GIANT, PRIVATE
AFTER-SCHOOL TUTORING INDUSTRY
PREPPING KIDS FOR EXAMS.
189
00:24:07,312 --> 00:24:16,054
PROFESSOR JIN SAYS IT WAS AN
EXAMPLE OF FREE MARKET
CAPITALISM RUN AMOK, DRAINING
THE RESOURCES OF PARENTS.
190
00:24:16,121 --> 00:24:24,496
SO, ONE WEEKEND IN JULY, JUST
LIKE THAT, THE GOVERNMENT
ESSENTIALLY OUTLAWED THIS ENTIRE
$120 BILLION FOR-PROFIT SECTOR.
191
00:24:24,563 --> 00:24:28,567
>> Jin: IF THEY'RE DETERMINED TO
DO ONE THING, THEY JUST DO IT.
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE
CAPITAL MARKETS, IMPLICATION OF
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00:24:28,633 --> 00:24:33,872
THE FINANCIAL SECTOR.
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE
EMPLOYMENT IMPLICATIONS.
>> Stahl: IN OTHER CASES, THE
193
00:24:33,939 --> 00:24:41,980
GOVERNMENT IS TAMING
CAPITALISTIC EXCESSES MORE
SLOWLY-- LIKE THE BLOATED REAL
ESTATE SECTOR.
194
00:24:42,047 --> 00:24:49,187
WE VISITED CHINA'S GHOST CITIES
EIGHT YEARS AGO, WITH THEIR
MILES OF EMPTY SKYSCRAPERS WITH
NO RESIDENTS, MALLS WITH NO
195
00:24:49,254 --> 00:25:00,532
SHOPPERS.
TODAY, THE GOVERNMENT IS
GRADUALLY DISMANTLING
EVERGRANDE, CHINA'S SECOND-
196
00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:07,038
LARGEST REAL ESTATE COMPANY,
WHICH OVERBUILT AND TOOK ON MORE
DEBT THAN ANY PROPERTY DEVELOPER
ON EARTH.
197
00:25:07,105 --> 00:25:14,045
BUT ALL THESE ACTIONS AGAINST
PRIVATE INDUSTRY ARE
CONTRIBUTING TO A SLOWDOWN IN
THE CHINESE ECONOMY, AND CAUSED
198
00:25:14,112 --> 00:25:20,218
GLOBAL INVESTORS TO LOSE MORE
THAN A TRILLION DOLLARS THIS
PAST SUMMER.
>> Weijian Shan: CHINA HAS
199
00:25:20,285 --> 00:25:28,426
DEVELOPED ITSELF BY EMBRACING A
MARKET ECONOMY.
IN ESSENCE, CAPITALISM.
IF THEY REVERT BACK TO THE
200
00:25:28,493 --> 00:25:35,433
CENTRALLY PLANNED SYSTEM, 40
YEARS AGO, IT WAS ALREADY PROVEN
TO BE FAILED SYSTEM.
>> Stahl: WEIJIAN SHAN SHOULD
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00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:44,075
KNOW.
HE'S THE C.E.O. OF P.A.G., A
$45 BILLION PRIVATE EQUITY FIRM
BASED IN HONG KONG, WHERE CHINA
202
00:25:44,142 --> 00:25:51,516
HAS RECENTLY STIFLED DEMOCRATIC
PROTEST.
SHAN GREW UP DURING THE DECADE
OF MAO'S CULTURAL REVOLUTION
203
00:25:51,583 --> 00:25:59,157
THAT DECIMATED THE ECONOMY,
KILLING AND UPROOTING MILLIONS.
>> Shan: I WAS SENT TO THE
COUNTRYSIDE.
204
00:25:59,224 --> 00:26:06,364
MAO WANTED US TO LEARN FROM THE
POOR, FROM THE PEASANTS.
SO, I AND MANY OF MY PEERS WERE
SENT TO THE GOBI DESERT.
205
00:26:06,431 --> 00:26:15,674
WE WORKED EXTREMELY HARD.
ONE TIME, WE WORKED NONSTOP FOR
31 HOURS.
>> Stahl: BUT BY HIS 20s, CHINA
206
00:26:15,740 --> 00:26:24,215
UNDER DENG XIAOPING HAD ADOPTED
THE FREE MARKET, AND SHAN WENT
TO STUDY IN THE U.S.
HE EVEN TAUGHT AT WHARTON, AND
207
00:26:24,282 --> 00:26:32,791
TODAY HE'S INVESTING FOR
AMERICAN PENSION FUNDS AND
UNIVERSITY ENDOWMENTS.
I WAS ABOUT TO ASK WHY ANY
208
00:26:32,857 --> 00:26:38,630
AMERICAN WOULD INVEST RIGHT NOW
IN CHINA.
IT'S SO UNPREDICTABLE.
>> Shan: WELL, INVESTMENT IS A
209
00:26:38,697 --> 00:26:46,805
RISKY BUSINESS.
CHINA, AS A MARKET, IS NOT FOR
FAINT-HEARTED.
>> Stahl: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT
210
00:26:46,871 --> 00:26:54,913
THE LEADERSHIP'S GOING TO DO
TOMORROW.
WE'RE BEING TOLD BY ECONOMISTS
THAT THIS IS A MOVE BACK TO MAO
211
00:26:54,980 --> 00:27:04,155
ZEDONG'S STATE-CONTROLLED
ECONOMY.
>> Shan: I THINK THAT'LL BE TOO
FAR TO SUGGEST, BUT I MUST SAY
212
00:27:04,222 --> 00:27:12,230
THAT THE WAY THAT THEY HAVE DONE
IT VERY OFTEN IS VERY CLUMSY.
>> Stahl: THERE'S NO QUESTION
THAT THE TENSION BETWEEN CHINA
213
00:27:12,297 --> 00:27:20,038
AND THE UNITED STATES IS RISING.
WE'RE CERTAINLY COMPETITORS NOW
IN A HEIGHTENED WAY.
SHOULDN'T THAT GIVE PEOPLE PAUSE
214
00:27:20,105 --> 00:27:30,749
ABOUT POURING MONEY IN?
>> Shan: WELL, THINK ABOUT IT.
CHINA IS THE HOLDER OF TREASURY
BILLS TO A TUNE OF $1 TRILLION
215
00:27:30,815 --> 00:27:37,455
U.S. DOLLARS.
THERE'S MORE CHINESE MONEY IN
THE UNITED STATES THAN AMERICAN
MONEY IN CHINA.
216
00:27:37,522 --> 00:27:43,561
SO, IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE
COMPETITION BETWEEN THE TWO
COUNTRIES, WHO SHOULD BE MORE
WORRIED?
217
00:27:43,628 --> 00:27:52,537
>> Stahl: HE ARGUES THAT CHINA'S
ECONOMY IS STILL A GOOD BET
BECAUSE THEIR MARKET IS SO BIG,
WITH 1.4 BILLION CONSUMERS.
218
00:27:52,604 --> 00:28:01,479
AND THERE'S SOME MERIT, HE SAYS,
IN XI'S STATE INTERVENTION, IF
COMPARED TO THE UNITED STATES.
>> Shan: I'M A FREE MARKET
219
00:28:01,546 --> 00:28:10,288
BELIEVER.
BUT NOW, CHINA HAS BETTER ROADS,
BETTER HIGHWAYS, BETTER
AIRPORTS, BETTER PORTS, BETTER
220
00:28:10,355 --> 00:28:18,196
BRIDGES THAN THE UNITED STATES,
A COUNTRY WHICH DAZZLED ME WHEN
I FIRST ARRIVED IN 1980s WITH
ITS INFRASTRUCTURE.
221
00:28:18,263 --> 00:28:25,103
BUT NOW, CHINA HAS A BETTER
INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO, THERE IS A ROLE FOR THE
GOVERNMENT TO PLAY.
222
00:28:25,170 --> 00:28:34,212
>> Stahl: IF XI IS ENGAGED IN A
CAMPAIGN TO SHOW THE REST OF THE
WORLD THAT THEIR SYSTEM GETS
THINGS DONE, AND ALL YOU GET IN
223
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:41,086
THE WEST IS CHAOS-- IS HE
WINNING HIS CAMPAIGN?
>> Pottinger: HIS CAMPAIGN IS
BASED PRIMARILY ON PROPAGANDA.
224
00:28:41,152 --> 00:28:49,461
RIGHT?
PEOPLE KNOW THAT DEMOCRACY HAS
OUTPERFORMED AUTOCRACY FOR THE
LAST THREE CENTURIES.
225
00:28:49,527 --> 00:29:00,238
SO, WE'VE GOT TO NOT, YOU KNOW,
LOSE FAITH IN OURSELVES.
( TICKING )
226
00:29:01,639 --> 00:29:04,909
( TICKING )
227
00:29:07,479 --> 00:29:13,751
>> Sharyn Alfonsi: YOU DON'T
NEED TO SPEAK MUCH ITALIAN TO
KNOW THE WORD "GUCCI."
FOR 100 YEARS, THE BRAND, WITH
228
00:29:13,818 --> 00:29:19,157
ITS DOUBLE G. LOGO, HAS BEEN
SYNONYMOUS WITH OPULENCE,
UNDERSTATED LUXURY, AND
OVER-THE-TOP PRICES.
229
00:29:19,224 --> 00:29:24,095
TONIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO
INTRODUCE YOU TO ALESSANDRO
MICHELE, GUCCI'S CREATIVE
DIRECTOR.
230
00:29:24,162 --> 00:29:31,469
IN THE SEVEN YEARS SINCE HE TOOK
THE JOB, HE'S BLOWN THE DOORS
OFF THE LEGENDARY FASHION HOUSE.
MICHELE SWAPPED OUT GUCCI'S
231
00:29:31,536 --> 00:29:41,179
SIGNATURE SOPHISTICATION FOR
SOMETHING HE CALLS "BEAUTIFUL
STRANGENESS," AND TRIPLED SALES
IN THE PROCESS.
232
00:29:43,615 --> 00:29:52,957
FOR ONE NIGHT LAST MONTH, GUCCI
CLEARED HOLLYWOOD'S WALK OF FAME
OF TOURISTS AND TRANSIENTS, AND
REPLACED THEM WITH A SPECTACLE
233
00:29:53,024 --> 00:30:01,933
THAT SUITS WHAT GUCCI HAS
BECOME: A PRODUCT OF ALESSANDRO
MICHELE'S IMAGINATION, IN WHICH
TOO MUCH IS NEVER ENOUGH.
234
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:07,805
>> Alessandro Michele: IT'S
ABOUT THINGS THAT SHINE.
AND IT'S ABOUT THE THINGS, YOU
KNOW, THAT SCREAM.
235
00:30:07,872 --> 00:30:12,010
>> Alfonsi: SOME OF THE CLOTHES
REALLY SCREAM, RIGHT?
( LAUGHS )
>> Michele: SOMETIMES.
236
00:30:12,076 --> 00:30:19,150
>> Alfonsi: I DON'T FEEL LIKE
YOU COULD BE A SHY PERSON AND
PULL SOME OF THOSE LOOKS OFF.
>> Michele: I THINK THAT FASHION
237
00:30:19,217 --> 00:30:27,458
IS TO LET TO THE PEOPLE HEAR
YOUR VOICE IN A WAY YOU KNOW.
>> Alfonsi: MICHELE'S VOICE IS A
LITTLE OUT OF TUNE, BY DESIGN.
238
00:30:27,525 --> 00:30:35,934
SOME OF HIS LOOKS SEEM RIPPED
FROM THE BACK OF GRANDMOTHER'S
COUCH-- OTHERS, FROM THE
DRESSING ROOM OF A RENO CABARET.
239
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:43,474
IS IT ANDROGYNY CHIC OR CRUSADER
COUTURE?
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFINE.
IN THE WEEKS LEADING UP TO THE
240
00:30:43,541 --> 00:30:51,549
HOLLYWOOD SHOW, WE WATCHED
MICHELE FUSSING OVER THE
FINISHING TOUCHES-- ADDING THE
PERFECT BAG, COAT, OR THIS, SOME
241
00:30:51,616 --> 00:30:58,089
KIND OF SKI MASK FOR A CYCLOPS.
WHEN WE WERE WATCHING YOU WITH
THE MODELS, YOU WOULD SAY,
"BELLA," IF YOU LIKED SOMETHING.
242
00:30:58,156 --> 00:31:02,994
( LAUGHS )
AND THEN, IF YOU WERE REALLY
HAPPY YOU SAID, "STUPENDO."
( LAUGHS )
243
00:31:03,061 --> 00:31:07,799
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
HOW DO YOU GO FROM "BELLA" TO
"STUPENDO"?
>> Michele: BELLO IS-- THAT IT'S
244
00:31:07,865 --> 00:31:15,306
WORKING.
STUPENDO, IT MEANS THAT IT'S
MESMERIZE YOU.
IT'S-- IT'S SOMETHING THAT LOOK
245
00:31:15,373 --> 00:31:21,279
FABULOUS, YOU KNOW?
>> Alfonsi: DO YOU FEEL IT?
>> Michele: YOU FEEL IT.
WE FEEL IT BOTH, YOU KNOW?
246
00:31:21,346 --> 00:31:28,353
NOT JUST ME-- THE MODEL, AND THE
PEOPLE.
IT'S-- IT'S MYSTERIOUS.
BUT WHEN YOU GOT THE LOOK, YOU
247
00:31:28,419 --> 00:31:32,190
GOT IT.
>> Alfonsi: AND IF YOU DON'T
HAVE IT?
>> Michele: YOU MUST CHANGE IN A
248
00:31:32,257 --> 00:31:40,565
VERY QUICK WAY.
>> Alfonsi: BUT ALESSANDRO
MICHELE'S INSPIRATION COMES
SLOWLY, USUALLY ON A DAILY
249
00:31:40,632 --> 00:31:47,972
STROLL THROUGH HIS NEIGHBORHOOD
IN ROME.
ITALIANS CALL IT THE
PASSEGGIATA, AND IT'S AS MUCH
250
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:53,645
ABOUT SEEING AS BEING SEEN.
>> Michele: IT'S ALWAYS LIKE
THIS, THAT I WALK IN THE SAME
PLACE FOR, YOU KNOW, A MILLION
251
00:31:53,711 --> 00:32:00,485
TIMES.
AND EVERY TIME, I FIND SOMETHING
THAT I DIDN'T NOTICE BEFORE.
>> Alfonsi: WE WENT WITH MICHELE
252
00:32:00,551 --> 00:32:07,592
TO HIS FAVORITE PLACE FOR
INSPIRATION, THE PIAZZA NAVONA,
A MASTERPIECE OF BAROQUE
ARCHITECTURE.
253
00:32:07,659 --> 00:32:11,329
>> Michele: EVERYTHING IS SO
CINEMATIC.
LOOK AT THIS.
IT'S LIKE THERE IS HUGGING YOU.
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00:32:11,396 --> 00:32:17,468
YOU KNOW?
LOOK AT THE SHAPE OF THE CHURCH.
IT'S, LIKE, SPECTACULAR.
>> Alfonsi: HE HAS AN
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00:32:17,535 --> 00:32:28,246
ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE OF ROME'S
HISTORY AND ARCHITECTURE, AND
NEVER TIRES OF ITS SCENERY,
WHETHER IT'S THE FOUNTAINS
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00:32:28,313 --> 00:32:34,085
SCULPTED BY BERNINI, OR FANNY
PACKS AND FLIP FLOPS WORN BY
PASSERS-BY.
SO, WHEN YOU SEE A TOURIST
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00:32:34,152 --> 00:32:37,955
WALKING AROUND WITH SOMETHING
AWFUL ON, YOU'RE LIKE, "YES."
>> Michele: I ALWAYS TAKE A
PICTURE.
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00:32:38,022 --> 00:32:42,393
>> Alfonsi: YOU DO?
( LAUGHS )
>> Michele: I HAVE A LOT OF
PICTURE OF CRAZY PEOPLE IN THE
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00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:46,497
STREET, YOU KNOW, THAT I GO
CRAZY.
I MEAN, IT'S REALLY INTERESTING,
YOU KNOW?
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00:32:46,564 --> 00:32:55,673
IT'S-- ( LAUGHS )
>> Alfonsi: MICHELE WALKS TO
WORK, FROM HIS APARTMENT IN ROME
TO THIS 600-YEAR-OLD PALAZZO.
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00:32:55,740 --> 00:33:01,779
IT'S BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN
DESIGNED BY THE RENAISSANCE
MASTER RAPHAEL.
THE MARBLE HALLWAYS LINED WITH
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00:33:01,846 --> 00:33:09,387
ROWS OF GUCCI GARMENTS AND
ACCESSORIES IS A PLAYGROUND FOR
THE 49-YEAR-OLD.
SOME OF THE PEOPLE WE SPOKE TO
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00:33:09,454 --> 00:33:16,994
HERE SAY THAT YOU'RE INVOLVED IN
EVERY DETAIL.
>> Michele: YEAH, YEAH, A LOT.
THAT'S A DISEASE, I THINK.
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00:33:17,061 --> 00:33:25,436
>> Alfonsi: HE'S ALSO A
COMPULSIVE COLLECTOR.
WE SPOKE IN HIS OFFICE, WHICH IS
FILLED WITH ANCIENT ART AND
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00:33:25,503 --> 00:33:31,075
MODERN KITSCH, AND HE HAS FOUR
STORAGE UNITS JAMMED WITH MORE
STUFF.
WHAT'S THE ITALIAN WORD FOR
266
00:33:31,142 --> 00:33:36,748
HOARDER, OR PACK RAT?
>> Michele: AH... CUMULATORE!
>> Alfonsi: CUMULATORE SOUNDS
BETTER THAN PACK RAT.
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00:33:36,814 --> 00:33:44,288
>> Michele: MEANS THAT YOU PUT,
YOU KNOW, THINGS IN YOUR-- YEAH,
IT'S-- I THINK THAT IS THE
DISEASE OF COLLECTORS.
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00:33:45,957 --> 00:33:53,364
>> Alfonsi: HE KEEPS A MENTAL
INVENTORY OF EVERYTHING IN THE
STUDIO, FROM HIS TAXIDERMIED
TREASURES TO BOWLS OF BUTTONS.
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00:33:53,431 --> 00:34:01,305
ALESSANDRO MICHELE STUDIED
COSTUME DESIGN, AND THOUGHT HE
MIGHT WORK IN HOLLYWOOD BEFORE
HE LANDED AT THE LUXURY FASHION
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00:34:01,372 --> 00:34:07,945
HOUSE, FENDI, AND LATER GUCCI.
TODAY, HIS LOOKS START WITH
SKETCHES.
THEN, THE OUTFITS ARE SEWN.
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00:34:08,012 --> 00:34:15,920
BUT THE GUCCI MAGIC HAPPENS WHEN
IT GETS IN FRONT OF MICHELE.
TO US, HE SEEMED AS MUCH A
PUZZLE MASTER AS A DESIGNER.
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00:34:15,987 --> 00:34:22,460
>> Michele: I LOVE TO BE OPEN TO
THE THINGS THAT MAKE ME FEEL
LIKE, "OH, MY GOSH.
WHAT IS THIS?"
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00:34:22,527 --> 00:34:28,266
AND I START TO PLAY WITH THESE
KIND OF THINGS.
I LIKE THE UGLY THINGS.
>> Alfonsi: THAT'S RIGHT, THE
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00:34:28,332 --> 00:34:34,672
FASHION DESIGNER SAID HE LIKES
UGLY THINGS.
>> Michele: MORE STRANGE.
>> Alfonsi: "MORE STRANGE," WE
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00:34:34,739 --> 00:34:41,746
HEARD HIM SAY, AS HE NARROWED
HIS 200 LOOKS TO THE 115 THAT
MADE IT INTO THE HOLLYWOOD SHOW.
>> Michele: WE ARE SELLING THE
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00:34:41,813 --> 00:34:49,220
DREAM OF FREEDOM.
IT'S LIKE A VOICE THAT IS SAYING
"IF YOU ARE LIKE THIS, YOU ARE
GOOD.
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00:34:49,287 --> 00:34:56,227
NOTHING WRONG."
>> Alfonsi: MICHELE'S IDEA OF
BEAUTY AND STYLE IS NOTHING LIKE
THE GUCCI THAT DEFINED LUXURY
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00:34:56,294 --> 00:35:03,367
FOR DECADES.
GUCCIO GUCCI STARTED THE COMPANY
IN THE 1920s, MAKING HIGH-END
LUGGAGE.
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00:35:03,434 --> 00:35:11,542
40 YEARS LATER, GUCCI WAS BEING
WORN BY PRINCESS GRACE OF MONACO
AND JACQUELINE KENNEDY ONASSIS.
SLICK AND SEXY GUCCI RULED THE
280
00:35:11,609 --> 00:35:18,916
'90s.
BUT, IN THE YEARS THAT FOLLOWED,
THE GUCCI FAMILY HAD SOLD ALL
ITS INTERESTS, AND THE BRAND
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00:35:18,983 --> 00:35:27,358
LOST ITS MOJO AND MARKET SHARE.
THAT'S WHEN GUCCI'S NEW C.E.O.,
MARCO BIZZARRI, SHOWED UP.
THE IMPECCABLY TAILORED YIN TO
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00:35:27,425 --> 00:35:32,930
MICHELE'S YANG.
AT FIRST GLANCE, YOU TWO LOOK
LIKE YOU SHOULDN'T GO TOGETHER,
RIGHT?
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00:35:32,997 --> 00:35:38,636
>> Marco Bizzarri: TOTALLY.
BUT IN A WAY, WE HAVE THE SAME
LOVE FOR BEAUTIFUL THINGS.
THE WAY WE EXPRESS THAT COULD BE
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00:35:38,703 --> 00:35:44,408
DIFFERENT, BUT AT THE END, THIS
IS GUCCI.
>> Alfonsi: BIZZARRI HAD A FULL-
BLOWN CRISIS ON HIS HANDS WHEN
285
00:35:44,475 --> 00:35:50,982
HE TOOK OVER IN 2015.
HIS TOP DESIGNER QUIT, JUST
WEEKS BEFORE A SHOW.
BIZZARRI COULD HAVE HIRED
286
00:35:51,048 --> 00:35:58,823
ANYBODY.
BUT PEOPLE INSIDE THE HOUSE
BEGGED HIM TO TALK TO ALESSANDRO
MICHELE, WHO HAD BEEN WITH GUCCI
287
00:35:58,890 --> 00:36:03,661
12 YEARS, DESIGNING HANDBAGS AND
ACCESSORIES.
>> Bizzarri: SO I MET HIM, IN
HIS APARTMENT.
288
00:36:03,728 --> 00:36:09,901
AND, IT-- YOU OPEN THE DOOR.
I MEAN, HE'S WEARING SOMETHING
THAT I NEVER SAW IN ANY SINGLE
THING-- IN-- IN ANY SHOP IN-- IN
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00:36:09,967 --> 00:36:16,807
GUCCI.
SO THEN I SAT DOWN AND I WAS
LOOKING AROUND IN THE APARTMENT.
THERE WAS ALL THESE ANTIQUES AND
290
00:36:16,874 --> 00:36:22,013
BEAUTIFUL COLORS.
BEAUTIFUL TEXTURE.
AND-- AND AMAZING TASTE.
EVEN THE WAY WHICH WAS SERVING
291
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:31,889
ME THE COFFEE WAS SO ELEGANT.
>> Michele: I FELT MYSELF VERY
FREE TO-- TO SAY EVERYTHING.
>> Alfonsi: WHAT DID YOU SAY?
292
00:36:31,956 --> 00:36:38,963
>> Michele: OH, I WAS SAYING
WHAT THE BRAND MAYBE WAS NOT--
AT THAT TIME, WAS NOT SO
RELEVANT.
293
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:44,268
BECAUSE THE BRAND LOST THIS KIND
OF BEAUTIFUL STRANGENESS.
>> Bizzarri: SO I ASK HIM,
"LISTEN, IF I APPOINT YOU AS A
294
00:36:44,335 --> 00:36:48,973
CREATIVE DIRECTOR, ARE YOU
WILLING TO DO THE SHOW, THE
MEN'S SHOW," THAT-- WAS GOING TO
HAPPEN IN FIVE DAYS.
295
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,710
>> Alfonsi: FIVE DAYS?
( LAUGHS )
>> Bizzarri: I DON'T THINK NEVER
BEEN HELD IN FASHION HISTORY
296
00:36:52,777 --> 00:37:00,651
THAT SOMEONE MADE A SHOW AT--
FOR A S-- COMPANY LIKE OURS--
THIS SIZE, IN FIVE DAYS.
AND HE SAID, "YES."
297
00:37:00,718 --> 00:37:07,725
>> Alfonsi: THIS IS WHAT MICHELE
WHIPPED UP FOR HIS FIRST SHOW,
IN LESS THAN A WEEK.
NOBODY KNEW WHAT TO MAKE OF IT.
298
00:37:07,792 --> 00:37:14,932
>> Michele: WHEN I FINISHED
EVERYTHING, AND THE SHOW WAS
GONE, I WAS SO TIRED.
AND I SAID, "MAYBE THEY'RE GOING
299
00:37:14,999 --> 00:37:19,670
TO FIRE ME."
( LAUGHTER )
BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S-- IT'S A JOB
THAT--
300
00:37:19,737 --> 00:37:22,373
>> Alfonsi: DID YOU REALLY THINK
THAT?
DID YOU REALLY THINK--
>> Michele: IN-- YEAH, FOR A
301
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,943
MINUTE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY.
BECAUSE IT WAS SO DIFFERENT, YOU
KNOW.
302
00:37:26,010 --> 00:37:30,548
>> Alfonsi: SOME PEOPLE WERE
LIKE, "DID GUCCI LOSE THEIR
MIND?"
>> Michele: YEAH.
303
00:37:30,615 --> 00:37:35,987
THERE WERE PEOPLE ON INSTAGRAM
WRITING THAT EVERYTHING WAS KIND
OF HORRIBLE, YOU KNOW?
THAT IT WAS NOT GUCCI.
304
00:37:36,053 --> 00:37:40,758
>> Alfonsi: DID YOU LOSE
CUSTOMERS AT FIRST?
>> Bizzarri: YEAH, I THINK SO.
YES.
305
00:37:40,825 --> 00:37:47,765
BUT WE GOT A LOT OF THE-- THE
NEW-- THE NEW GENERATIONS A LOT.
A LOT.
ACTUALLY, I THINK THE CHANGE IN
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00:37:47,832 --> 00:37:54,605
AESTHETIC THAT ALESSANDRO DID
FOR GUCCI BROUGHT THIS NEW
GENERATION INTO THE FASHION
WORLD, THE LUXURY WORLD.
307
00:37:54,672 --> 00:38:01,912
>> Alfonsi: BIZZARRI'S BET PAID
OFF-- GUCCI SALES TRIPLED IN
FIVE YEARS.
WHO'S YOUR CUSTOMER?
308
00:38:01,979 --> 00:38:11,389
IS IT THE MOVIE STAR, OR IS IT
THE 19-YEAR-OLD WITH THEIR NOSE
PRESSED AGAINST THE GLASS AT
GUCCI, THAT YOU'RE HOPING WEARS
309
00:38:11,455 --> 00:38:15,960
WHAT YOU PUT--
>> Michele: I DON'T KNOW.
>> Alfonsi: --WEARS WHAT YOU PUT
YOUR HEART INTO?
310
00:38:16,027 --> 00:38:19,764
>> Michele: I WAS THINKING ABOUT
EVERYBODY.
BECAUSE FASHION IS REALLY FOR
EVERYBODY.
311
00:38:19,830 --> 00:38:24,368
>> Alfonsi: BUT DOESN'T
EVERYBODY HAVE TO AFFORD IT?
>> Michele: I DON'T KNOW.
YEAH, MAYBE NO.
312
00:38:24,435 --> 00:38:32,143
>> Alfonsi: NO ONE AT GUCCI
APOLOGIZES FOR THE PRICES.
THEY FOLLOW THE LUXURY BRAND
PHILOSOPHY: YOU CAN CHARGE AS
313
00:38:32,209 --> 00:38:38,182
MUCH AS THE BUYER IS WILLING TO
PAY.
AND FOR GUCCI, THEY DO-- BIG-
TIME.
314
00:38:38,249 --> 00:38:44,889
THEIR WOOL-LINED LOAFERS SELL
FOR ALMOST $1,000.
THE HIGHEST-PRICED BAGS,
$35,000.
315
00:38:44,955 --> 00:38:52,063
GUCCI MAKES MOST OF ITS MONEY
FROM LEATHER GOODS.
THEY GAVE US RARE PERMISSION TO
GO INSIDE A FACTORY OUTSIDE
316
00:38:52,129 --> 00:39:00,237
FLORENCE.
IT LOOKS LIKE AN OPERATING ROOM.
WE SAW BAGS THAT WERE HAND-SEWN
AND HAND-PAINTED.
317
00:39:00,304 --> 00:39:05,476
GUCCI SAYS ALMOST ALL OF THEIR
PRODUCTS ARE STILL MADE IN
ITALY.
AND, WATCHING THESE ARTISANS AT
318
00:39:05,543 --> 00:39:12,516
WORK, YOU CAN ALMOST START TO
MAKE SENSE OF THE HIGH PRICES
THAT MAKE THEIR BAGS ONE OF THE
MOST DESIRED, AND COUNTERFEITED,
319
00:39:12,583 --> 00:39:21,726
ITEMS IN THE WORLD.
THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, IMITATION IS
THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY.
BUT WHEN YOU SEE SOME FAKE GUCCI
320
00:39:21,792 --> 00:39:28,666
GEAR FLY BY, AND YOU SEE IT ALL
OVER ROME...
>> Michele: IT'S-- IT'S-- IT'S
PRETTY CRAZY.
321
00:39:28,733 --> 00:39:34,839
I'M STILL DEALING WITH THE
COPIES THAT I SEE EVERYWHERE.
I THINK THAT MEANS KIND OF POWER
OF THE BRAND.
322
00:39:34,905 --> 00:39:37,775
>> Alfonsi: BUT, DOES IT UPSET
YOU?
>> Michele: NO, NEVER.
BECAUSE THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE
323
00:39:37,842 --> 00:39:41,445
POPULAR.
>> Alfonsi: THAT YOU'RE
RELEVANT.
>> Michele: RELEVANT, YEAH.
324
00:39:41,512 --> 00:39:49,487
IT'S-- IT'S LIKE IN MUSIC.
IF SOMEONE IS COPYING YOU...
>> Alfonsi: IS IT MORE IMPORTANT
TO YOU THAT GUCCI IS CONSIDERED
325
00:39:49,553 --> 00:39:55,760
FASHIONABLE, OR RELEVANT?
>> Michele: I WOULD LOVE TO SAY
BOTH.
BUT MAYBE MORE RELEVANT.
326
00:39:55,826 --> 00:40:03,868
BECAUSE I THINK THAT RELEVANT
MEANS THAT YOU ARE SAYING
SOMETHING, AND FASHION MUST SAY
SOMETHING NOW.
327
00:40:06,103 --> 00:40:13,511
>> Alfonsi: ALESSANDRO MICHELE
DIRECTED GUCCI TO GET HIS
MESSAGE TO YOUNGER CUSTOMERS
WITH ONLINE FILMS, RELENTLESS
328
00:40:13,577 --> 00:40:22,953
SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGNS, AND
SHOWS THAT BRING CEREBRAL TO A
WHOLE NEW LEVEL.
LIKE THIS ONE, WHERE THE MODELS
329
00:40:23,020 --> 00:40:29,660
ARE CARRYING WAX REPLICAS OF
THEIR HEAD.
OSCAR-WINNING ACTOR JARED LETO
FOLLOWED SUIT, IN THIS GUCCI
330
00:40:29,727 --> 00:40:34,465
GOWN AT A CHARITY GALA.
>> Jared Leto: I CARRIED THE
HEAD AROUND.
BUT THE THING ABOUT THE HEAD
331
00:40:34,532 --> 00:40:38,035
WAS, EVERYONE WANTED TO PLAY
WITH MY HEAD.
( LAUGHS )
>> Alfonsi: DO YOU JUST BRING IT
332
00:40:38,102 --> 00:40:41,705
OUT TO DINNER PARTIES OR--
>> Leto: I MEAN, I HAVEN'T SEEN
IT SINCE THAT NIGHT, BASICALLY.
YEAH, IT'S PRETTY HEAVY.
333
00:40:41,772 --> 00:40:44,575
>> Alfonsi: IT'S PRETTY HEAVY--
>> Leto: YEAH, WELL--
( CROSSTALK )
--BIG BRAIN IN THERE.
334
00:40:44,642 --> 00:40:47,444
>> Alfonsi: FOR AN ACTOR, RIGHT?
( LAUGHS )
>> Leto: YOU KNOW, YEAH.
IT'S-- IT'S A VERY HEAVY HEAD
335
00:40:47,511 --> 00:40:51,949
FOR AN ACTOR.
>> Alfonsi: TODAY, GUCCI
ATTRACTS A BRAND OF CELEBRITY
WHO DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY IT
336
00:40:52,016 --> 00:40:59,123
SAFE.
THINK BILLIE EILISH, HARRY
STYLES, AND SERENA WILLIAMS.
LETO PROMOTES GUCCI, AND WEARS
337
00:40:59,190 --> 00:41:08,032
IT ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ON THE RED
CARPET-- AND, OF COURSE, WHEN
HE'S GARDENING WITH MICHELE.
>> Leto: HE HAS A GREAT SENSE OF
338
00:41:08,098 --> 00:41:12,169
HUMOR.
I'VE WORN, LIKE, A COUNTERFEIT
GUCCI SHIRT.
>> Alfonsi: WITH HIM?
339
00:41:12,236 --> 00:41:15,539
>> Leto: YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
AND, HE SAYS, "OH, DARLING,
THAT'S FAKE."
( LAUGHS )
340
00:41:15,606 --> 00:41:19,543
AND I'M LIKE, "I KNOW."
>> Michele: NOW, WHEN YOU THINK
TO GUCCI, YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN
LOOK BEAUTIFUL IN DIFFERENT
341
00:41:19,610 --> 00:41:28,152
WAYS, YOU KNOW?
AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK
VERY POWERFUL FOR EVERYBODY.
BECAUSE IN THE PAST, I MEAN,
342
00:41:28,219 --> 00:41:36,760
FASHION WAS JUST ONE WAY.
>> Alfonsi: THE HOLLYWOOD SHOW,
WHICH TOOK SIX MONTHS TO CREATE,
LASTED JUST 22 MINUTES.
343
00:41:36,827 --> 00:41:44,368
RIGHT NOW, ALESSANDRO MICHELE IS
THE MOST INFLUENTIAL DESIGNER IN
FASHION.
BUT HE'LL BE THE FIRST TO TELL
344
00:41:44,435 --> 00:41:50,241
YOU NOTHING IS ETERNAL-- EXCEPT
HIS CITY, ROME.
YOU SAID AFTER THAT FIRST SHOW,
YOU WERE WORRIED THEY WERE GOING
345
00:41:50,307 --> 00:41:54,345
TO FIRE YOU.
>> Michele: YEAH.
( LAUGHS )
>> Alfonsi: ARE YOU FEELING A
346
00:41:54,411 --> 00:41:57,214
LITTLE MORE CONFIDENT NOW?
( LAUGHS )
>> Michele: I LOVE TO FEEL
INSECURE, IN A WAY.
347
00:41:57,281 --> 00:42:02,152
IT--
>> Alfonsi: IT MAKES YOU
CREATIVE--
>> Michele: YEAH, IT MAKE ME
348
00:42:02,219 --> 00:42:05,623
FEEL CREATIVE.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE LIFE.
IT'S NOT FOREVER.
THAT'S THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THING,
349
00:42:05,689 --> 00:42:06,724
THAT NOTHING'S FOREVER.
THAT'S WHY IT'S PRECIOUS.
350
00:42:16,867 --> 00:42:22,940
>> Alfonsi: NEXT SUNDAY ON
"60 MINUTES:" JON WERTHEIM
VENTURES TO FOGO ISLAND, A
REMOTE SPECK OFF THE COAST OF
351
00:42:23,007 --> 00:42:29,713
NEWFOUNDLAND, WHERE STUNNING
BEAUTY COMPETED WITH ECONOMIC
STRUGGLE.
AN ISLAND-BRED ENTREPRENEUR
352
00:42:29,780 --> 00:42:37,955
RETURNED FROM SILICON VALLEY TO
UNDERTAKE A PROJECT AIMED AT
SAVING THE ISLAND'S LIFE, AND
CULTURE.
353
00:42:38,022 --> 00:42:42,459
>> Zita Cobb: WHEN YOU THINK
ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF THIS PLACE,
IF THERE'S ONE THING WE'RE
REALLY GOOD AT, IT'S
354
00:42:42,526 --> 00:42:46,830
HOSPITALITY.
>> Wertheim: WHAT DOES
HOSPITALITY MEAN HERE?
>> Cobb: HOSPITALITY, IN ITS
355
00:42:46,897 --> 00:42:58,842
PUREST FORM, IS THE LOVE OF A
STRANGER.
>> Alfonsi: I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WIT
356
00:42:58,909 --> 00:43:01,145
Captioning funded by CBS
and FORD.
We go further, so you can.
357
00:43:01,845 --> 00:43:04,615
Captioned by
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