1
00:00:00,309 --> 00:00:14,557
We go further, so you can.
>> WHY ARE GOODS BEING HELD UP
AT PORTS ALL ACROSS AMERICA?
"60 MINUTES" WENT TO HAVE A
2
00:00:14,624 --> 00:00:21,798
LOOK.
>> THE CARGO HAS NOWHERE TO GO.
WE'VE GOT TO GET A WORKFORCE IN
THE WAREHOUSES AND THE TRUCKING
3
00:00:21,864 --> 00:00:26,803
INDUSTRY THAT ARE COMPLEMENTARY
TO ALL THIS CARGO THAT IS--
THAT'S COMING IN RIGHT NOW.
>> THERE IS A LOT OF FINGER-
4
00:00:26,869 --> 00:00:32,341
POINTING.
>> YES, THERE IS.
>> THE TRUCKERS BLAME THE
TERMINALS; THE TERMINALS BLAME
5
00:00:32,408 --> 00:00:37,380
THE SHIPPERS; THE RETAILERS
BLAME THE TRUCKERS AND THE
SHIPPERS.
HOW DO YOU GET THAT CONTENTIOUS
6
00:00:37,447 --> 00:00:43,519
GROUP TO SIT AT THE TABLE, STOP
POINTING FINGERS, AND ACTUALLY
CLEAR OUT THIS BACKLOG?
( TICKING )
7
00:00:45,788 --> 00:00:52,728
>> THIS DIVIDE IS CULTURAL.
>> ANDREW SULLIVAN HAS BEEN AN
INFLUENTIAL AND CONTROVERSIAL
CONSERVATIVE VOICE IN AMERICA
8
00:00:52,795 --> 00:01:02,605
FOR MOR THAN 30 YEARS.
HE TOLD US THAT TODAY, HE FEARS
THE REPUBLIC ITSELF IS
THREATENED BY THE RIGID TRIBAL
9
00:01:02,672 --> 00:01:10,246
POLITICS OF THE LEFT AND THE
RIGHT.
>> WE CAN FIGHT OVER ARGUMENTS,
BUT NOT DEBATE EACH OTHER'S GOOD
10
00:01:10,313 --> 00:01:16,752
FAITH OR CHARACTER, OR DISMISS
PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE OR
SEX OR WHATEVER.
WE CAN LEAVE ALL THAT BEHIND AND
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00:01:16,819 --> 00:01:19,021
BE CITIZENS.
( TICKING )
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00:01:21,023 --> 00:01:29,432
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
>> OFTEN AS WE HEAR BANDS PLAY,
WE RARELY GLIMPSE BANDS AT WORK;
13
00:01:29,499 --> 00:01:36,405
MUCH LESS THE BIGGEST BAND THAT
EVER WAS.
WELL, TELEPORT TO 1969, AND MEET
THE BEATLES.
14
00:01:36,472 --> 00:01:44,714
♪ ♪ ♪
DIRECTOR PETER JACKSON WENT
DEEP, SIFTING THROUGH DOZENS OF
HOURS OF NEVER-BEFORE-SEEN FILM,
15
00:01:44,780 --> 00:01:53,256
ALLOWING THE WORLD AN INTIMATE
LOOK AT THE BEATLES IN STUDIO,
AND AN INTIMATE LISTEN TO EVERY
CONVERSATION.
16
00:01:53,322 --> 00:01:56,826
>> LEFT HIS HOME IN TUCSON,
ARIZONA.
( TICKING )
17
00:01:58,728 --> 00:02:03,199
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M ANDERSON COOPER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
18
00:02:03,266 --> 00:02:09,005
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.
THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT,
ON "60 MINUTES."
19
00:02:09,071 --> 00:02:12,341
( TICKING )
20
00:02:19,081 --> 00:02:25,221
>> Bill Whitaker: YOU BETTER
WATCH OUT, YOU BETTER NOT CRY,
YOU BETTER NOT POUT-- OR MAYBE
YOU SHOULD.
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00:02:25,288 --> 00:02:32,628
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS' WORTH OF
HOLIDAY PRESENTS AND OTHER GOODS
AMERICANS HAVE ORDERED ARE STUCK
ON GIANT CONTAINER SHIPS,
22
00:02:32,695 --> 00:02:38,634
WAITING FOR A SPACE TO UNLOAD AT
THE PORTS OF LOS ANGELES AND
LONG BEACH.
CALL IT A CASE OF FREIGHT
23
00:02:38,701 --> 00:02:45,341
EXPECTATIONS.
THERE'S SO MUCH CARGO ARRIVING
FROM ASIA THAT SOME OF IT HAS
BEEN DIVERTED TO OTHER PORTS IN
24
00:02:45,408 --> 00:02:54,150
THE COUNTRY.
IT'S LED TO AN EPIC TRAFFIC JAM
THAT NO ONE SEEMS ABLE TO
UNTANGLE, AND IT'S REVEALED DEEP
25
00:02:54,216 --> 00:03:02,892
FLAWS IN AMERICA'S SUPPLY CHAIN.
WHAT STARTED AS A SHOP-FROM-HOME
BINGE DURING THE PANDEMIC HAS
HAD LASTING EFFECTS.
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00:03:02,959 --> 00:03:11,667
RETAILERS WARN THESE HOLIDAYS
WILL BE MARKED BY EMPTY SHELVES,
HIGHER PRICES, AND LOST JOBS,
UNLESS THE BACKLOG IS CLEARED.
27
00:03:11,734 --> 00:03:17,607
WE WANTED TO SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE
IN THE BUSIEST PORTS IN THE
COUNTRY.
BUT FIRST, WE HAD TO GET ON
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00:03:17,673 --> 00:03:27,283
BOARD.
SPACE AT THE LONG BEACH DOCKS IS
SO TIGHT THAT WHEN A SLOT OPENED
UP AT 1:00 A.M., THE PORT PILOTS
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00:03:27,350 --> 00:03:40,730
WASTED NO TIME.
THEY SPED OFF INTO THE DARK.
AND SO DID WE, FOLLOWING CAPTAIN
JAMES DWYER UP A ROPE LADDER AS
30
00:03:40,796 --> 00:03:47,937
HE CLIMBED ABOARD TO GUIDE THE
GIANT SHIP, THE "EVER LINKING,"
TO AN OPEN BERTH.
>> Captain James Dwyer: WE'RE
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00:03:48,004 --> 00:03:54,677
INBOUND FOR L.A. BERTH 405.
>> Whitaker: STEERING THE SHIP
THROUGH THE HARBOR, HE TOLD US
PILOTS ARE HANDLING TWICE THE
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00:03:54,744 --> 00:04:01,250
USUAL NUMBER OF VESSELS.
>> Dwyer: RIGHT NOW, WE'RE IN--
JUST IN OUR SLOW TURN TO PORT,
TO GET ONTO THE MAIN CHANNEL.
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00:04:01,317 --> 00:04:09,625
>> Whitaker: WITH THE PORT
GLITTERING IN THE DISTANCE,
CAPTAIN DWYER FROM THE BRIDGE,
SLOWLY TURNED THE 100,000-TON
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00:04:09,692 --> 00:04:14,930
SHIP AROUND.
>> Dwyer: STOP ENGINE, BILL.
>> Whitaker: WE'LL BACK UP?
>> Dwyer: YES, SIR, WE'RE GOING
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00:04:14,997 --> 00:04:21,504
TO GO STERN-FIRST.
BOW STOP.
>> Whitaker: WE FOUND THIS FEAT
OF PARALLEL PARKING,
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00:04:21,570 --> 00:04:27,943
UNPARALLELED.
>> Dwyer: PUSH EASY.
>> Whitaker: FOR THE LAST FEW
YARDS AND INCHES, CAPTAIN DWYER
37
00:04:28,010 --> 00:04:35,685
STUCK HIS HEAD OUT THE WINDOW TO
GUIDE THE BEHEMOTH IN BY SIGHT.
>> Dwyer: CAN WE LET GO OF THE
TUG LINE AFT, LET GO OF THE TUG
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00:04:35,751 --> 00:04:41,457
LINE, EASY, EASY.
>> Whitaker: IT TURNS OUT
DOCKING A SHIP THE SIZE OF THREE
FOOTBALL FIELDS IS THE EASY
39
00:04:41,524 --> 00:04:47,196
PART.
HOW ABOUT THAT!
GETTING THE GOODS FROM HERE TO
STORE SHELVES IS PROVING TO BE A
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00:04:47,263 --> 00:04:56,672
LOT MORE DAUNTING.
IT USED TO TAKE TWO DAYS TO GET
CARGO OFF THE DOCKS.
NOW, IT TAKES NINE.
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00:04:56,739 --> 00:05:07,216
TO SEE WHY, WE TOOK TO THE AIR
WITH RYAN PETERSEN, C.E.O. OF
FLEXPORT, A TECHNOLOGY COMPANY
THAT BUYS AND SELLS CARGO SPACE.
42
00:05:07,283 --> 00:05:13,355
LOOK AT HOW PACKED THIS IS HERE.
>> Ryan Peterson: YEAH, TOTALLY
PACKED.
>> Whitaker: WE FLEW OVER THE
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00:05:13,422 --> 00:05:21,230
SPRAWLING PORTS OF LOS ANGELES
AND LONG BEACH-- 40% OF ALL U.S.
IMPORTS COME THROUGH HERE.
WE SAW STACKS OF MAROONED
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00:05:21,297 --> 00:05:32,708
CONTAINERS, DORMANT CRANES,
LOADED RAIL CARS SITTING IDLE.
THE COUNTRY'S BUSIEST PORTS
PACKED TO THE GILLS.
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00:05:32,775 --> 00:05:40,816
AND OUT AT SEA?
MORE THAN 80 SHIPS STRETCHED TO
THE DISTANCE-- A NEW RECORD.
THEY USED TO PULL RIGHT IN.
46
00:05:40,883 --> 00:05:47,189
NOW, THEY CAN WAIT WEEKS.
PETERSEN TOLD US THIS BACKLOG
HAS BEEN BUILDING SINCE THE
START OF THE PANDEMIC.
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00:05:47,256 --> 00:05:50,659
IS IT GETTING WORSE?
>> Peterson: IT'S DEFINITELY
GETTING WORSE.
IT'S AS BAD AS IT'S EVER BEEN
48
00:05:50,726 --> 00:05:54,530
RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT THERE, DO YOU SEE ALL
THOSE BLUE CRANES?
THERE'S NO SHIP--
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00:05:54,597 --> 00:05:57,666
>> Whitaker: THAT MAKES NO
SENSE.
>> Peterson: THAT'S WHAT--
THAT'S WHAT I SAY.
50
00:05:57,733 --> 00:06:03,439
IT MAKES NO SENSE.
UNTIL YOU REALIZE, HEY, THE YARD
IS TOTALLY FULL.
SEE HOW HIGH THOSE STACKS ARE?
51
00:06:03,506 --> 00:06:08,444
TOTALLY JAMMED UP.
>> Whitaker: SO, WHEN YOU SEE
THIS, WHAT-- WHAT DOES THIS SAY
TO YOU?
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00:06:08,511 --> 00:06:13,849
>> Peterson: I THINK A LOT OF
BUSINESSES ARE AT RISK, IF THEY
CAN'T GET THEIR PRODUCTS IN-- IN
TIME FOR THE HOLIDAY SEASON.
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00:06:13,916 --> 00:06:17,119
AND OF COURSE, IT ALSO MEANS
CONSUMERS ARE GOING TO PAY
REALLY HIGH PRICES FOR
EVERYTHING.
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00:06:17,186 --> 00:06:22,525
>> Whitaker: SO THIS IS WHAT
INFLATION LOOKS LIKE?
>> Peterson: YEAH, THIS IS
INFLATION FIRST-HAND.
55
00:06:22,591 --> 00:06:29,231
>> Whitaker: THE PROBLEMS AT THE
PORTS HAVE CASCADED ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
SO WE FOLLOWED THE SUPPLY CHAIN,
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00:06:29,298 --> 00:06:37,773
FROM THE CHOKED PORTS OF L.A.
AND LONG BEACH TO RAIL YARDS IN
CHICAGO.
ALONG THE WAY WE FOUND CHAOS,
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00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:50,920
FINGER-POINTING, HUGE PROFITS,
AND MASSIVE LOSSES.
AND EVERYWHERE, FRUSTRATION.
BOBBY DJAVAHERI'S FRUSTRATION
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00:06:50,986 --> 00:06:56,192
WAS PALPABLE WHEN HE LIFTED HIS
WAREHOUSE DOOR TO SHOW US
INSIDE.
SO, WHAT-- WHAT SHOULD THIS LOOK
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00:06:56,258 --> 00:07:04,466
LIKE?
>> Bobby Djavaheri: YEAH, YOU--
YOU, RIGHT HERE, YOU WOULDN'T BE
ABLE TO WALK IN HERE.
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00:07:04,533 --> 00:07:08,804
I MEAN, WE GOT BOXES ALL THE WAY
TO THE CEILING.
THIS WOULD BE FULLY FULL.
>> Whitaker: SO WHAT DO YOU
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00:07:08,871 --> 00:07:12,942
THINK WHEN YOU SEE IT LIKE THIS?
>> Djavaheri: IT'S UNBELIEVABLE.
THERE'S NEVER BEEN A MONTH
THAT'S-- THAT'S-- THAT'S EMPTY--
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00:07:13,008 --> 00:07:16,178
EVER.
THE FACT THAT CHRISTMAS IS
AROUND THE CORNER AND IT'S
EMPTY, IT'S SHOCKING.
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00:07:16,245 --> 00:07:23,285
>> Whitaker: DJAVARHERI RUNS
YEDI HOUSEWARE, HE IMPORTS
HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES FROM CHINA.
HE TOLD US HIS GOODS HAVE BEEN
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00:07:23,352 --> 00:07:33,162
DELAYED FOR SIX MONTHS.
NOW, HE HAS THOUSANDS OF ORDERS
HE CAN'T FILL, AND HIS SHIPPING
COSTS HAVE SOARED FROM $2,000 A
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00:07:33,229 --> 00:07:39,368
CONTAINER TO AS HIGH AS $25,000.
HE BLAMES THIS CRISIS ON THE
OCEAN CARRIERS.
>> Djavaheri: I CALL THEM
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00:07:39,435 --> 00:07:44,673
PIRATES OF THE SEA.
THEY'RE 100% PRICE-GOUGING, AND
NO ONE'S DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
>> Whitaker: IT'S NOT JUST
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00:07:44,740 --> 00:07:50,312
MARKET FORCES?
>> Djavaheri: NO.
NO, I-- I REALLY DON'T BUY IT.
IT'S PRICE-GOUGING, AND IT'S
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00:07:50,379 --> 00:07:53,716
SOMEONE TAKING ADVANTAGE.
>> Whitaker: AND IT'S HURTING
YOUR BUSINESS?
>> Djavaheri: YEAH, IT'S HURTING
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00:07:53,782 --> 00:07:58,454
MY BUSINESS, AND MANY OTHER
PEOPLE'S BUSINESSES.
>> Gene Seroka: THERE'S TOO MUCH
COMING IN THROUGH THE U.S.
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00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,359
SUPPLY CHAIN, AND IT'S NOT
LEAVING THE PORT FAST ENOUGH.
>> Whitaker: SO THAT'S WHY
YOU'VE GOT THESE SHIPS BACKED UP
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00:08:03,425 --> 00:08:08,197
HERE?
>> Seroka: THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Whitaker: GENE SEROKA IS THE
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE L.A.
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00:08:08,264 --> 00:08:16,405
PORT.
HE TOLD US THE ENTIRE SYSTEM HAS
BEEN OVERWHELMED BY THE TSUNAMI
OF ORDERS FLOODING IN FROM ASIA.
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00:08:16,472 --> 00:08:22,478
WHO IS MAKING MONEY OFF OF THIS?
WHO IS BENEFITING FROM THIS
BACKLOG?
>> Seroka: LINER SHIPPING
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00:08:22,544 --> 00:08:28,083
COMPANIES WILL MAKE RECORD
PROFITS THIS YEAR, AGAIN.
THEY'RE BOOKING MORE CARGO THAN
EVER BEFORE.
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00:08:28,150 --> 00:08:32,554
THERE'S A SUPPLY/DEMAND ISSUE.
>> Whitaker: SO THE PRICE JUST
KEEPS GOING UP AND UP?
>> Seroka: PRICES SKYROCKETED ON
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00:08:32,621 --> 00:08:37,626
THESE TRANS-PACIFIC TRADE
ROUTES.
THERE'S MONEY BEING MADE.
>> Whitaker: THIS MONTH, THE
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00:08:37,693 --> 00:08:46,969
WORLD'S LARGEST SHIPPING LINE,
MAERSK, REPORTED RECORD PROFITS
OF $16 BILLION-- UP 68% FROM
LAST YEAR.
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00:08:47,036 --> 00:08:54,376
THE OCEAN CARRIERS-- MOST
HEADQUARTERED IN EUROPE OR ASIA-
- SAY DEMAND FOR CARGO SPACE
KEEPS RISING.
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00:08:54,443 --> 00:09:02,251
THEY BLAME A SHORTAGE OF
TRUCKERS AT THE PORT.
TAKE AN EMPTY IN, TAKE A FULL
CONTAINER OUT.
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00:09:02,318 --> 00:09:07,990
WHERE IS THIS FALLING APART?
>> Matt Schrap: IN THE FACT THAT
WE, BECAUSE OF THE BOOKING
SYSTEMS, HAVE RESTRICTIONS ON
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00:09:08,057 --> 00:09:14,496
THE TYPE OF CONTAINER THAT YOU
CAN BRING IN.
>> Whitaker: MATT SCHRAP, OF THE
HARBOR TRUCKING ASSOCIATION,
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00:09:14,563 --> 00:09:20,669
TOLD US THERE'S NO DRIVER
SHORTAGE AT THE PORTS.
HE SAYS IT'S THE ANTIQUATED
BOOKING SYSTEM THAT'S GUMMING UP
83
00:09:20,736 --> 00:09:26,942
THE WORKS.
SCHRAP TOLD US, NORMALLY,
TRUCKERS MAKE AN APPOINTMENT TO
RETURN AN EMPTY CONTAINER BEFORE
84
00:09:27,009 --> 00:09:33,849
PICKING UP A FULL ONE.
BUT WITH SO LITTLE SPACE AT THE
PORTS, THERE ARE NEW
RESTRICTIONS ON EVEN THE COLOR
85
00:09:33,916 --> 00:09:39,755
OF CONTAINERTHAT CAN BE
RETURNED.
TRUCKERS CAN WAIT HOURS IN LINE
ONLY TO BE TURNED AWAY BECAUSE
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00:09:39,822 --> 00:09:46,862
THERE'S NO ROOM.
SOME OF THE TERMINALS WILL SAY
THAT THE NO-SHOWS OF YOUR
DRIVERS-- 50% OF THE TIME THEY
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00:09:46,929 --> 00:09:51,867
DON'T SHOW UP.
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT?
>> Schrap: WELL, WE MAKE
APPOINTMENTS BECAUSE WE DON'T
88
00:09:51,934 --> 00:09:57,239
KNOW SOMETIMES UNTIL THE DAY OF,
WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING TO BE
ABLE TO RETURN AN EMPTY
CONTAINER BACK INTO THAT MARINE
89
00:09:57,306 --> 00:10:01,844
TERMINAL.
AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE
DAY OF, THEY SAY, "SORRY, WE'RE
NOT TAKING ANY MORE RUST-COLORED
90
00:10:01,910 --> 00:10:06,648
CONTAINERS."
SO IT'S JUST-- YOU KNOW, IT'S
JUST-- IT'S A GAME OF WHACK-A-
MOLE, LITERALLY.
91
00:10:06,715 --> 00:10:15,391
>> Whitaker: THE RESULT?
LOTS LIKE THIS, FULL OF EMPTY
CONTAINERS SITTING ON CHASSIS,
THE UNDERCARRIAGE THAT HOLDS THE
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00:10:15,457 --> 00:10:19,728
CONTAINER AND ATTACHES TO A
TRUCK.
>> Schrap: WITHOUT A CHASSIS,
YOU CANNOT MOVE THOSE CONTAINERS
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00:10:19,795 --> 00:10:25,534
OFF OF DOCK.
AND THE MAJORITY OF CHASSIS ARE
SITTING UNDER EMPTY CONTAINERS,
STREWN AROUND CALIFORNIA.
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00:10:25,601 --> 00:10:31,540
>> Whitaker: SO, THE CHASSIS ARE
NECESSARY TO MOVE THE FULL
CONTAINERS OUT OF THE PORT?
>> Schrap: ABSOLUTELY.
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00:10:31,607 --> 00:10:36,745
>> Whitaker: BUT MOST OF THESE
CHASSIS ARE NOW BEING USED JUST
TO HOLD EMPTY CONTAINERS.
>> Schrap: THAT'S CORRECT.
96
00:10:36,812 --> 00:10:41,383
>> Whitaker: THIS IS THE
DEFINITION OF A BOTTLENECK.
>> Schrap: ABSOLUTELY.
>> Rick Woldenberg: PEOPLE ARE
97
00:10:41,450 --> 00:10:46,955
ORDERING EARLY AND...
>> Whitaker: THAT'S NOT THE ONLY
CHOKE POINT.
IN CHICAGO, WE MET RICK
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00:10:47,022 --> 00:10:59,268
WOLDENBERG AT HIS FAMILY'S TOY
BUSINESS, LEARNING RESOURCES.
EVERY YEAR, HE IMPORTS TOYS FROM
CHINA AND BRINGS THEM HERE BY
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00:10:59,334 --> 00:11:07,409
RAIL.
HE TOLD US, THIS YEAR HAS BEEN A
NIGHTMARE.
HOW LONG IS IT TAKING TO GET THE
100
00:11:07,476 --> 00:11:14,216
PRODUCT FROM LOS ANGELES HERE?
>> Woldenberg: I'D ESTIMATE THAT
THE DOMESTIC LEAD TIME IS 45
DAYS.
101
00:11:14,283 --> 00:11:20,656
AND THAT'S UNBELIEVABLY SLOW.
PONY EXPRESS COULD HAVE GOTTEN
IT HERE FASTER.
>> Whitaker: WOLDENBERG TOLD US
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00:11:20,722 --> 00:11:26,228
HE TRIED TO AVOID THE BACKLOG BY
PLACING HIS CHRISTMAS ORDERS IN
MAY...
>> Woldenberg: IT'S A TOY IN IT
103
00:11:26,295 --> 00:11:33,969
FOR CHRISTMAS.
>> Whitaker: ...ONLY TO HIT A
MONUMENTAL SNAG IN CHICAGO.
THERE WAS SO MUCH CARGO AT THE
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00:11:34,036 --> 00:11:39,808
RAIL YARDS, THAT HIS CONTAINERS
GOT STUCK AT THE BOTTOM OF A
PILE FOR NINE WEEKS.
HE TOLD US IT WAS LIKE HAVING
105
00:11:39,875 --> 00:11:46,849
HIS TOYS HELD HOSTAGE.
THE KICKER?
THE RAIL LINE CHARGED HIM FOR
"STORAGE."
106
00:11:46,915 --> 00:11:53,689
THIS, ON TOP OF PAYING $30,000
FOR A CONTAINER FROM CHINA-- TEN
TIMES WHAT HE PAID LAST YEAR.
>> Woldenberg: IF THAT WERE AS
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00:11:53,755 --> 00:12:00,462
BAD AS IT WAS, THAT WOULD STILL
BE HORRIBLE, BUT IT GETS WORSE,
BECAUSE WE GET PENALIZED FOR
STORAGE.
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00:12:00,529 --> 00:12:12,474
AND THAT'S WHERE IT BECOMES THE
THEATRE OF THE ABSURD.
SO, THE $25,000 TO $30,000 IS
THE MARKET GONE BERSERK, BUT
109
00:12:12,541 --> 00:12:17,679
PENALTIES ARE A PUNISHMENT THAT
IS UNCONSCIONABLE.
>> Whitaker: SO, WAIT A MINUTE.
YOUR-- YOUR CARGO IS BEING HELD
110
00:12:17,746 --> 00:12:22,184
UP?
>> Woldenberg: RIGHT.
>> Whitaker: FOR NOTHING YOU
HAVE DONE WRONG?
111
00:12:22,251 --> 00:12:26,588
>> Woldenberg: CORRECT.
>> Whitaker: YOU CAN'T GO PICK
IT UP?
>> Woldenberg: CORRECT.
112
00:12:26,655 --> 00:12:31,860
>> Whitaker: BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY
FOR IT TO BE STORED?
>> Woldenberg: CORRECT.
>> Whitaker: THE RAIL YARDS TOLD
113
00:12:31,927 --> 00:12:39,868
US IT WAS ALL DUE TO CONGESTION.
RICK WOLDENBERG TOLD US HE PAID
ALMOST A MILLION DOLLARS IN
STORAGE FEES IN SEPTEMBER ALONE.
114
00:12:39,935 --> 00:12:45,374
>> Whitaker: CAN YOU AFFORD
THIS?
>> Woldenberg: NO, I CAN'T.
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO ABSORB THIS
115
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:53,549
KIND OF EXPENSE.
SO WE HAD TO RAISE OUR PRICES.
THESE PENALTIES ARE GRATUITOUS.
THEY'RE NOT INCURRING EXTRA
116
00:12:53,615 --> 00:12:59,588
EXPENSES BECAUSE OF THIS.
>> Whitaker: IT SOUNDS LIKE
YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE CHARGING
YOU EXTRA BECAUSE THEY CAN.
117
00:12:59,655 --> 00:13:06,361
>> Woldenberg: SURE FEELS LIKE
IT.
>> Whitaker: NOW, WITH INFLATION
THE HIGHEST IN 30 YEARS AND THE
118
00:13:06,428 --> 00:13:14,069
HOLIDAYS FAST-APPROACHING,
THERE'S A FLURRY OF PLANS TO
BREAK THE LOGJAM.
STARTING TOMORROW, GENE SEROKA,
119
00:13:14,136 --> 00:13:21,677
WHO RUNS THE L.A. PORT, SAYS
HE'LL FINE THE SHIPPING LINES
FOR ANY CARGO THAT SITS ON THE
DOCKS MORE THAN NINE DAYS.
120
00:13:21,743 --> 00:13:28,850
AND LAST MONTH, PRESIDENT JOE
BIDEN ANNOUNCED THE PORTS HAD
AGREED TO WORK ROUND-THE-CLOCK.
BUT IT HASN'T HAD MUCH EFFECT.
121
00:13:28,917 --> 00:13:35,791
>> Seroka: WE TYPICALLY WORK
ABOUT 19 HOURS A DAY HERE.
IT'S THAT 3:00 TO 8:00 A.M.
SHIFT THAT WE'VE ADDED, AND
122
00:13:35,857 --> 00:13:41,530
TRIED TO GET OTHERS TO WORK WITH
US DURING THOSE TIMES AS WELL.
>> Whitaker: SO YOU MIGHT BE
WORKING 24/7, BUT THE WAREHOUSES
123
00:13:41,597 --> 00:13:46,268
ARE NOT.
>> Seroka: THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Whitaker: SO THEY HAVE NO
PLACE FOR THESE GOODS TO GO,
124
00:13:46,335 --> 00:13:51,240
AFTER THEY GET OFF THE SHIP AT
3:00 IN THE MORNING.
>> Seroka: AND THERE, YOU'VE
JUST DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM.
125
00:13:51,306 --> 00:13:57,913
THE CARGO HAS NOWHERE TO GO.
WE'VE GOT TO GET A WORKFORCE IN
THE WAREHOUSES AND THE TRUCKING
INDUSTRY THAT ARE COMPLEMENTARY
126
00:13:57,980 --> 00:14:01,950
TO ALL THIS CARGO THAT IS--
THAT'S COMING IN RIGHT NOW.
>> Whitaker: THERE IS A LOT OF
FINGER-POINTING.
127
00:14:02,017 --> 00:14:06,521
>> Seroka: YES, THERE IS.
>> Whitaker: THE TRUCKERS BLAME
THE TERMINALS; THE TERMINALS
BLAME THE SHIPPERS; THE
128
00:14:06,588 --> 00:14:13,829
RETAILERS BLAME THE TRUCKERS AND
THE SHIPPERS.
HOW DO YOU GET THAT CONTENTIOUS
GROUP TO SIT AT THE TABLE, STOP
129
00:14:13,895 --> 00:14:19,034
POINTING FINGERS, AND ACTUALLY
CLEAR OUT THIS BACKLOG?
>> Seroka: THAT'S BEEN THE
TOUGHEST PART.
130
00:14:19,101 --> 00:14:22,571
WE HAVEN'T MOVED THE NEEDLE YET,
BUT IT'S NOT FOR A LACK OF
TRYING.
AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO JUST
131
00:14:22,638 --> 00:14:27,909
DOUBLE DOWN.
>> Whitaker: THE WHOLE SUPPLY
CHAIN MESS HAS PUT A SPOTLIGHT
ON GLARING DEFICIENCIES IN U.S.
132
00:14:27,976 --> 00:14:36,385
INFRASTRUCTURE.
FLEXPORT'S RYAN PETERSON SAY
THERE'S NO QUICK FIX, AND THE
$17 BILLION IN THE
133
00:14:36,451 --> 00:14:42,157
INFRASTRUCTURE BILL FOR
UPGRADING AMERICA'S PORTS MAY
NOT BE ENOUGH.
>> Peterson: SEE, SINGAPORE
134
00:14:42,224 --> 00:14:46,295
ALONE IS BUILDING A $20 BILLION
CONTAINER TERMINAL RIGHT NOW.
>> Whitaker: HOW DID WE GET TO
THIS?
135
00:14:46,361 --> 00:14:53,001
I MEAN, I'VE SEEN THE PORTS IN
ROTTERDAM AND IN HONG KONG, AND
THEY ARE LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF
US.
136
00:14:53,068 --> 00:14:59,975
>> Peterson: ONE PROBLEM WITH
THE U.S. SYSTEM IS, WE-- THE
PORTS ARE OWNED BY THE CITIES
THAT THEY'RE IN.
137
00:15:00,042 --> 00:15:06,615
AND ULTIMATELY, THE CAPITAL
EXPENDITURE FOR BUILDING
TERMINALS, FOR DREDGING, FOR,
YOU KNOW, FOR INVESTING IN THESE
138
00:15:06,682 --> 00:15:11,987
PORTS, COMES DOWN TO DECISIONS
MADE AT A LOCAL LEVEL.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS A NATIONAL
INFRASTRUCTURE.
139
00:15:12,054 --> 00:15:16,792
IT'S TO SERVE THE ENTIRE
COUNTRY.
SO, THERE'S A REAL ROLE FOR
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO COME IN
140
00:15:16,858 --> 00:15:23,065
AND STEP IN.
>> Whitaker: THE WHITE HOUSE HAS
PUT A TOP-LEVEL TASK FORCE ON
THE PROBLEM, BUT OTHER THAN
141
00:15:23,131 --> 00:15:30,238
TWISTING ARMS AND WRANGLING
CONCESSIONS, THERE'S NOT MUCH IT
CAN DO IN AN INDUSTRY DOMINATED
BY PRIVATE COMPANIES, FOREIGN
142
00:15:30,305 --> 00:15:37,412
SHIPPING LINES, AND LOCAL PORT
AUTHORITIES.
AND NO ONE WE SPOKE WITH EXPECTS
A CHRISTMAS MIRACLE.
143
00:15:37,479 --> 00:15:40,048
( TICKING )
144
00:15:46,788 --> 00:15:53,528
>> Scott Pelley: ANDREW SULLIVAN
HAS BEEN AN INFLUENTIAL AND
CONTROVERSIAL VOICE FOR MORE
THAN 30 YEARS.
145
00:15:53,595 --> 00:16:01,370
HE'S A CONSERVATIVE AUTHOR,
EDITOR AND BLOGGER.
AS A BRITISH-AMERICAN, HIS STYLE
COMBINES THE PERCEPTION OF AN
146
00:16:01,436 --> 00:16:08,343
OUTSIDER WITH THE DEVOTION OF A
NATIVE SON.
WHEN WE MET, AT HIS HOME ON CAPE
COD, WE FOUND SULLIVAN ANXIOUS
147
00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:15,717
ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE
REPUBLIC.
TOO MANY AMERICANS, HE TOLD US,
ARE NO LONGER THE CITIZENS THAT
148
00:16:15,784 --> 00:16:23,291
THE FOUNDERS WERE COUNTING ON.
>> Andrew Sullivan: THE AMERICAN
CONSTITUTION WAS SET UP FOR
PEOPLE WHO CAN REASON AND ARGUE
149
00:16:23,358 --> 00:16:28,797
AND AREN'T AFRAID OF IT, AND
THEN REACH COMPROMISES.
THE WHOLE THING IS DESIGNED THAT
WAY.
150
00:16:28,864 --> 00:16:35,203
WELL, IF YOU'RE IN A TRIBE, AND
ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE VICTORY
OF YOUR TRIBE, AND YOU HAVE ALL
THE TRUTH, AND YOUR OTHER TRIBE
151
00:16:35,270 --> 00:16:41,276
HAS NONE OF IT; AND YOU HAVE ALL
THE VIRTUE, AND THE OTHER SIDE
HAS NONE OF IT; YOU CAN'T BEHAVE
THAT WAY.
152
00:16:41,343 --> 00:16:49,117
YOU CAN'T MAKE IT WORK.
THIS COUNTRY CAME TO THE POINT
WHERE WE HAD VIOLENCE IN THE
USUAL PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF
153
00:16:49,184 --> 00:17:00,862
POWER.
THAT IS A HUGE WARNING TO HOW
UNSTABLE OUR SYSTEM CAN BE, IF
WE REMAIN TRIBALISTS IN A SYSTEM
154
00:17:00,929 --> 00:17:09,438
THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DESIGNED
FOR REASONABLE CITIZENS.
>> Pelley: YOU KNOW, WE WRING
OUR HANDS ABOUT THE STRIDENT
155
00:17:09,504 --> 00:17:15,343
NATURE OF POLITICS TODAY.
BUT HASN'T IT ALWAYS BEEN THAT
WAY?
>> Sullivan: OH, YEAH.
156
00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:23,952
THERE'S A LOT OF WHAT YOU MIGHT
CALL ROUGH AND TUMBLE, SHARP
RHETORIC.
AND THAT'S HEALTHY.
157
00:17:24,019 --> 00:17:31,293
WHAT'S NOT HEALTHY IS WHEN THAT
ISN'T JUST RETAINED AND KEPT IN
THE POLITICAL AREA, BUT BECOMES
PERSONAL, BECOMES SOMETHING YOU
158
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,397
BRING TO THE SUPERMARKET,
BECOMES SOMETHING YOU BRING TO
THANKSGIVING DINNER, BECOMES
SOMETHING THAT PERMEATES
159
00:17:35,464 --> 00:17:43,004
EVERYTHING.
AND THAT SEPARATION BETWEEN
POLITICS AND LIFE IS WHAT WE'RE
LOSING, AND THAT'S A TERRIBLE
160
00:17:43,071 --> 00:17:51,413
THING TO LOSE.
>> Pelley: ANDREW SULLIVAN, 58,
GREW UP IN EAST GRINSTEAD IN
RURAL, SOUTHERN ENGLAND.
161
00:17:51,480 --> 00:18:00,622
HE WON A SCHOLARSHIP TO OXFORD,
WHICH LED TO HARVARD AND A Ph.D.
IN POLITICAL SCIENCE INSPIRED BY
BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MICHAEL
162
00:18:00,689 --> 00:18:06,795
OAKESHOTT.
>> Sullivan: AND HE DEFINED
CONSERVATISM AS, REALLY, A
DEFENSE OF WHAT IS.
163
00:18:06,862 --> 00:18:15,403
A LOVE OF WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE,
AND FEAR THAT IT COULD ALL
DISAPPEAR.
A SENSE OF THE FRAGILITY OF THE
164
00:18:15,470 --> 00:18:23,044
WORLD, AND THE IMPORTANCE OF
BEING PRAGMATIC.
NOT HAVING SOME IDEOLOGICAL
ABSTRACTION YOU WANT TO FORCE
165
00:18:23,111 --> 00:18:30,685
ONTO REALITY, BUT UNDERSTANDING
REALITY AS SOMETHING THAT CAN
GIVE YOU OCCASIONS FOR CHANGE,
WHICH WE DO NEED.
166
00:18:30,752 --> 00:18:38,293
BUT ALSO WARNINGS FOR EXCESSIVE
CHANGE AND EXCESSIVE RADICALISM.
>> Pelley: IN 2006, YOU WROTE A
BOOK CALLED "THE CONSERVATIVE
167
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:43,899
SOUL."
WHAT WERE YOU SAYING?
>> Sullivan: I WAS SAYING THAT
CONSERVATISM HAD LOST ITS WAY.
168
00:18:43,965 --> 00:18:51,439
BECAUSE IT HAD BECOME TOO SURE
OF ITSELF.
IT WAS FULL OF HUBRIS.
IT BELIEVED IT HAD THE ANSWER,
169
00:18:51,506 --> 00:19:02,717
THE TRUTH; BECAME INTOLERANT OF
LIBERALS AND OF LIBERALISM, AND
IT BECAME HARDENED BY RELIGIOUS
FUNDAMENTALISM, WHICH BROOKS NO
170
00:19:02,784 --> 00:19:11,459
COMPROMISE, EITHER.
SO, IT BROKE THE CONSERVATIVE
VIRTUES OF HUMILITY, SKEPTICISM,
DOUBT.
171
00:19:11,526 --> 00:19:20,769
>> Pelley: IN THE BOOK, YOU TALK
ABOUT RESCUING CONSERVATISM.
HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT THAT?
>> Sullivan: YOU WAIT FOR THESE
172
00:19:20,835 --> 00:19:27,042
TERRIBLE PASSIONS AND THE
CURRENT CULT-WORSHIP OF A HUMAN-
- INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEING, DONALD
TRUMP.
173
00:19:27,108 --> 00:19:35,450
YOU WAIT AND HOPE THAT WILL
PASS, SO THAT WE CAN GET BACK TO
THE PRAGMATIC PROCESS OF
GOVERNING REALITY.
174
00:19:35,517 --> 00:19:41,289
AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE
ENGAGED IN NOW.
WE'RE FLYING FROM REALITY.
WE'RE INVENTING ABSTRACTIONS AND
175
00:19:41,356 --> 00:19:51,366
IDEOLOGIES.
WE'RE FIGHTING EACH OTHER.
WE'RE DEMONIZING EACH OTHER.
THE SYSTEM CAN STILL WORK.
176
00:19:51,433 --> 00:19:59,874
IT'S WE WHO ARE BROKEN.
>> Pelley: THE IDEAS OF
TOLERANCE, REASON, AND DEBATE
CAME TO SULLIVAN EARLY IN LIFE,
177
00:19:59,941 --> 00:20:09,017
WHEN HE REALIZED HE WAS
CONSERVATIVE, CATHOLIC, AND GAY.
YOU HAVE WRITTEN THAT YOU FIRST
ACKNOWLEDGED BEING GAY WHILE
178
00:20:09,084 --> 00:20:19,194
TAKING COMMUNION.
>> Sullivan: YEAH.
I ALWAYS, AS A KID, HAD AN
INTENSE SPIRITUALITY.
179
00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:27,502
AND, AS IT WELLED UP IN ME THAT
I WASN'T LIKE OTHER BOYS, THE
ONLY PERSON I THOUGHT I COULD
TAKE IT TO WAS GOD.
180
00:20:27,569 --> 00:20:34,442
SO, HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON I
CAME OUT TO.
JUST, "PLEASE, GOD," I DIDN'T
EVEN HAVE THE WORD FOR IT.
181
00:20:34,509 --> 00:20:42,951
BUT JUST, "HELP ME WITH THAT."
THAT'S WHY, WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME,
YOU KNOW, "HOW CAN YOU BE OPENLY
GAY AND CATHOLIC?", MY RESPONSE
182
00:20:43,018 --> 00:20:49,824
'M
IS, "I'M OPENLY GAY BECAUSE
A CATHOLIC.
BECAUSE I KNOW GOD LOVES ME.
183
00:20:49,891 --> 00:20:58,500
AND I KNOW THAT GOD WOULD WANT
ME TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT
MYSELF.
>> Pelley: IS THAT DICHOTOMY,
184
00:20:58,566 --> 00:21:05,106
CATHOLICISM AND HOMOSEXUALITY,
THE REASON THAT YOU CAN HOLD TWO
COMPETING IDEAS IN YOUR HEAD AT
THE SAME TIME?
185
00:21:05,173 --> 00:21:12,714
>> Sullivan: WELL, I THINK IT
HELPS.
ONE THING ABOUT COMING OUT EARLY
AND BEING HONEST ABOUT THAT, IS
186
00:21:12,781 --> 00:21:18,920
THAT SEEKING TRUTH AND CLARITY
BECOMES A HABIT, AND YOU GET A
LIBERATION FROM THAT.
SO, I SAID THE TRUTH, I THOUGHT
187
00:21:18,987 --> 00:21:24,192
THE WORST WOULD HAPPEN, AND I'M
OKAY.
SO WHY CAN'T I TELL THE TRUTH
ABOUT OTHER THINGS, OR WHY CAN'T
188
00:21:24,259 --> 00:21:31,566
I JUST FERRET IT OUT?
>> Pelley: ANDREW SULLIVAN BEGAN
"SEEKING TRUTH" IN AMERICA IN
1986.
189
00:21:31,633 --> 00:21:39,340
HE NEEDED A JOB, AND THE LEFT-
LEANING "NEW REPUBLIC" MAGAZINE
OFFERED HIM AN INTERNSHIP.
IN FIVE YEARS, HE WAS THE
190
00:21:39,407 --> 00:21:47,949
EDITOR.
SULLIVAN WAS IN A HURRY, BECAUSE
HE EXPECTED TO DIE.
HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH H.I.V. IN
191
00:21:48,016 --> 00:21:55,890
1993.
>> Sullivan: THE THING ABOUT
THAT EXPERIENCE WAS THAT, AS YOU
TOOK CARE OF PEOPLE YOU LOVED,
192
00:21:55,957 --> 00:22:04,499
WHO WERE DYING VERY YOUNG IN--
AND THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE FORGET--
IN REALLY HORRIBLE
CIRCUMSTANCES-- MEDIEVAL
193
00:22:04,566 --> 00:22:13,108
TORTURES: BLINDNESS, SORES,
LESIONS, NEUROPATHY.
THE HUMILIATION OF IT.
AND YOU KNOW, AS I WAS DOING
194
00:22:13,174 --> 00:22:19,214
THAT, THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE
ME.
THAT'S WHY I WROTE THE BOOK
"VIRTUALLY NORMAL: THE CASE FOR
195
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:25,987
GAY MARRIAGE," BECAUSE I THOUGHT
I ONLY HAD A FEW YEARS LEFT.
AND IF I WANTED TO CONTRIBUTE
SOMETHING, I WOULD TRY AND NAIL
196
00:22:26,054 --> 00:22:33,461
DOWN THE IRONCLAD ARGUMENT FOR
MARRIAGE EQUALITY BEFORE I DIED.
>> Pelley: BUT YOUR ARGUMENT AT
THE TIME WAS THAT SAME-SEX
197
00:22:33,528 --> 00:22:38,700
MARRIAGE SHOULD BE A
CONSERVATIVE GOAL.
>> Sullivan: WELL, IT SHOULD BE,
SHOULDN'T IT?
198
00:22:38,767 --> 00:22:46,174
WHY WOULD SUPPORTING GAY MEN IN
RELATIONSHIPS NOT BE
CONSERVATIVE?
WHY WOULD HELPING FOSTER
199
00:22:46,241 --> 00:22:53,481
RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF
EACH OTHER NOT BE CONSERVATIVE?
OF COURSE, THESE ARE
CONSERVATIVE VALUES.
200
00:22:53,548 --> 00:23:04,459
>> Pelley: SULLIVAN MARRIED HIS
HUSBAND, AARON TONE, IN 2007.
THERE HAVE BEEN SIX BOOKS,
INCLUDING "I WAS WRONG," A
201
00:23:04,526 --> 00:23:13,468
COMPILATION OF HIS FULL-THROATED
CAMPAIGN FOR WAR IN IRAQ WHICH
HE NOW REGRETS.
RECENTLY, IN HIS BLOG, THE
202
00:23:13,535 --> 00:23:22,744
WEEKLY DISH, AND ON HIS PODCAST,
SULLIVAN'S WEIGHED IN ON BLACK
LIVES MATTER AND ON CRITICAL
RACE THEORY, WHICH SAYS RACISM
203
00:23:22,811 --> 00:23:29,417
IS SYSTEMIC AND PERPETUATES
INEQUALITY TO THIS DAY.
>> Sullivan: HERE'S WHAT I THINK
IS GOOD ABOUT IT.
204
00:23:29,484 --> 00:23:38,493
I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY
VIGILANT ABOUT POLICE ABUSE.
AND WE'VE SEEN IT.
WE'VE PROVEN IT TO BE RACIALLY
205
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:47,202
TARGETED IN SOME PLACES-- NOT
ALL PLACES.
I THINK WE'VE ALSO TOO OFTEN
WHITEWASHED OUR PAST;
206
00:23:47,268 --> 00:24:00,048
WHITEWASHED THE TRUE HORRORS OF
WHAT IT WAS TO LIVE IN THE
SEGREGATED GULAGS OF THE SOUTH
DURING SLAVERY.
207
00:24:00,114 --> 00:24:11,259
IN ANOTHER SENSE, HOWEVER, ONE
OF ITS KEY ARGUMENTS IS THAT THE
OPPRESSION OF NON-WHITE PEOPLE
IS THE TRUE, CORE MEANING OF
208
00:24:11,326 --> 00:24:18,433
THIS COUNTRY.
NOW, I THINK IT'S ONE IMPORTANT
PART TO UNDERSTAND THIS COUNTRY,
BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S THE MOST
209
00:24:18,499 --> 00:24:24,339
IMPORTANT PART.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT'S AN
ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF AMERICA
TODAY.
210
00:24:24,405 --> 00:24:30,211
I DO THINK WE'VE MADE ENORMOUS
STRIDES.
I DO THINK OUR RACIAL PANORAMA
IS MUCH MORE COMPLEX AND DYNAMIC
211
00:24:30,278 --> 00:24:38,086
THAN IT USED TO BE.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE THIS
COUNTRY'S FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL AND
NEEDS TO BE DISMANTLED.
212
00:24:38,152 --> 00:24:46,027
>> Pelley: ANOTHER CONTROVERSY
ABOUT RACE HAS FOLLOWED SULLIVAN
FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS.
BACK IN 1994, AS EDITOR OF THE
213
00:24:46,094 --> 00:24:54,302
"NEW REPUBLIC," HE RAN AN
EXCERPT OF THE BOOK, "THE BELL
CURVE," WHICH IMPLIED AFRICAN
AMERICANS, GENETICALLY, HAVE
214
00:24:54,369 --> 00:25:04,445
LOWER I.Q.s.
THE EXCERPT RAN 10,000 WORDS.
SULLIVAN PRINTED REBUTTALS THAT
RAN 19,000 WORDS.
215
00:25:04,512 --> 00:25:10,551
BUT, HE'S CRITICIZED FOR AIRING
THE DEBATE AT ALL.
SCHOLARS HAVE SINCE DISCREDITED
THE BOOK.
216
00:25:10,618 --> 00:25:18,693
SULLIVAN HAS DEFENDED IT.
YOU HAVE WRITTEN THAT THE BOOK
HAS "HELD UP," THAT THE BOOK WAS
"BRILLIANT."
217
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,364
>> Sullivan: THE DATA IS STILL
THERE.
WE DON'T KNOW.
AND I THINK IT'S BEEN UNFAIRLY
218
00:25:23,431 --> 00:25:31,372
PRESENTED.
THE BOOK IS AGNOSTIC ABOUT THE
MIX OF GENES AND ENVIRONMENT IN
TERMS OF INTELLIGENCE.
219
00:25:31,439 --> 00:25:39,013
AND THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE.
WE DON'T KNOW.
>> Pelley: BUT THIS RAISES A
QUESTION IN THE VIEWER'S MIND:
220
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:46,187
DOES HE BELIEVE THAT AFRICAN
AMERICANS ARE INHERENTLY LESS
INTELLIGENT THAN WHITE PEOPLE?
>> Sullivan: ABSOLUTELY NOT.
221
00:25:46,254 --> 00:25:51,426
THERE'S NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT.
>> Pelley: WHY WAS THIS AN
IMPORTANT DEBATE TO HAVE?
>> Sullivan: THAT'S A VERY GOOD
222
00:25:51,492 --> 00:25:58,599
POINT, SCOTT.
I'M NOT SURE WE SHOULD, TO BE
HONEST WITH YOU.
THE DEBATE WAS GOING TO HAPPEN,
223
00:25:58,666 --> 00:26:07,275
REGARDLESS.
AND I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE
HELPFUL TO HAVE IT PUT OUT, IN--
IN ALL ITS FORM; BOTH THE CASE
224
00:26:07,342 --> 00:26:11,679
FOR, AND THEN ALL THE CASES
AGAINST.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS A RESPONSIBLE
WAY TO RESPOND TO THE EMERGENCE
225
00:26:11,746 --> 00:26:20,555
OF THIS BOOK AND THIS PIECE.
AND I MAY HAVE MADE THE WRONG
CALL, BUT I DID IT-- I DID IT IN
GOOD FAITH, AND I DID IT BECAUSE
226
00:26:20,621 --> 00:26:28,496
I THINK IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO
AIR THIS STUFF THAN TO SUPPRESS
IT, HOWEVER FEELINGS MAY BE
HARMED.
227
00:26:28,563 --> 00:26:33,801
BUT I THINK IF I WERE PRESENTED
WITH THAT THING TODAY, I
WOULDN'T.
I'LL BE PERFECTLY HONEST WITH
228
00:26:33,868 --> 00:26:38,973
YOU, I WOULD'T.
I THINK THE HARM OUTWEIGHS THE
GOOD.
>> Pelley: HE DOESN'T MEAN HE'S
229
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:48,516
GIVING UP ON DEBATE.
HE TOLD US, TOO MANY NEWSROOMS
THESE DAYS PANDER TO THE LEFT
AND RIGHT, AND ARE INTIMIDATED
230
00:26:48,583 --> 00:26:54,122
BY POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
>> Sullivan: WHEN I RAN THE "NEW
REPUBLIC," IT WAS A CONSTANT
INTERNAL WAR.
231
00:26:54,188 --> 00:26:58,292
PEOPLE FELT PASSIONATE ABOUT
SUBJECTS.
ONE WOULD WRITE ONE WEEK IN ONE
POSITION.
232
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:03,364
ANOTHER ONE WOULD WRITE THE NEXT
WEEK AGAINST IT.
AND PEOPLE WOULD BE FASCINATED
BY THIS INTERNAL STRUGGLE.
233
00:27:03,431 --> 00:27:11,339
I LOVE THAT.
I HATE THIS FEELING I'M READING
THE CHURCH ENCYCLICAL EVERY WEEK
OR EVERY DAY, AND IT'S TELLING
234
00:27:11,406 --> 00:27:16,878
ME HOW I NEED TO BE PERFECTLY
WOKE OR HOW I NEED TO BE
PERFECTLY "TRUMPY."
LIBERAL DEMOCRACY IS BETTER
235
00:27:16,944 --> 00:27:24,619
DEFENDED IF IT RESTS ON FORMAL
CIVIC MORAL EQUALITY.
>> Pelley: IF THE STAKES FOR
AMERICA SEEM PERSONAL IN
236
00:27:24,685 --> 00:27:34,562
SULLIVAN, IT HELPS TO KNOW HE
HAD TO FIGHT TO BE AMERICAN.
FOR 22 YEARS, THE U.S. BANNED
CITIZENSHIP TO THOSE WITH H.I.V.
237
00:27:34,629 --> 00:27:44,705
HE ARGUED AGAINST THE BAN, WHICH
WAS LIFTED IN 2010.
PROOF AGAIN, HE SAYS, OF WHAT
CAN COME OF PATIENCE AND REASON.
238
00:27:44,772 --> 00:27:51,412
>> Sullivan: WE CAN FIGHT OVER
ARGUMENTS, BUT NOT DEBATE EACH
OTHER'S GOOD FAITH OR CHARACTER,
OR DISMISS PEOPLE BECAUSE OF
239
00:27:51,479 --> 00:27:59,620
THEIR RACE OR SEX OR WHATEVER.
WE CAN LEAVE ALL THAT BEHIND AND
BE CITIZENS, ARGUING, REASONING.
"DELIBERATION" IS WHAT THE
240
00:27:59,687 --> 00:28:08,229
FOUNDERS CALLED IT.
IF WE'RE NOT LIKE THAT, THIS
SYSTEM WILL FAIL, AS IT IS
ALREADY FAILING.
241
00:28:08,296 --> 00:28:16,270
>> Pelley: SO, WHAT GIVES YOU
HOPE?
>> Sullivan: WELL, I WOULD SAY
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
242
00:28:16,337 --> 00:28:23,411
OPTIMISM AND HOPE.
I'M NOT PARTICULARLY OPTIMISTIC,
GIVEN THE TRENDS THAT WE'RE
SEEING.
243
00:28:23,478 --> 00:28:29,383
BUT HOPE'S DIFFERENT.
HOPE IS A SENSE THAT GRACE CAN
HAPPEN.
YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S AROUND THE
244
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:37,825
CORNER.
MAYBE THERE'LL BE SOMETHING IN
THE FUTURE-- A LEADER, A FIGURE,
OR THERE MUST BE A SORT OF
245
00:28:37,892 --> 00:28:44,132
GROUNDSWELL OF PEOPLE, SAYING,
ENOUGH OF THIS.
ENOUGH OF THIS.
THE NOISE, THE RAGE, IT'S
246
00:28:44,198 --> 00:28:49,237
DEAFENING, AND WE'RE BETTER THAN
THIS.
( TICKING )
247
00:28:55,042 --> 00:29:05,553
( TICKING )
>> Jon Wertheirm: IT'S JANUARY
1969, AND THE BEATLES ARE
UNRECOGNIZABLE FROM THE WIDE-
248
00:29:05,620 --> 00:29:10,758
EYED MOP-TOPS WHO APPEARED ON
THE "ED SULLIVAN SHOW" JUST FIVE
YEARS PRIOR.
THEIR POPULARITY IS UNRIVALLED.
249
00:29:10,825 --> 00:29:19,333
THEY'VE STOPPED TOURING, AND
FAME IS EXACTING ITS PRICE.
NOW COMES A SELF-IMPOSED STRESS:
THEY'VE GIVEN THEMSELVES THREE
250
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,573
WEEKS TO RECORD 14 SONGS THAT
THEY'LL PLAY TO A LIVE AUDIENCE,
ALL THE WHILE TRAILED BY
CAMERAS.
251
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:32,113
THE ASTONISHINGLY INTIMATE
FOOTAGE WAS RECENTLY EXTRACTED
FROM A LONDON VAULT AND PLACED
IN THE CAPABLE HANDS OF
252
00:29:32,180 --> 00:29:38,619
FILMMAKER PETER JACKSON.
HIS RESULTING THREE-PART
DOCUMENTARY SERIES, "GET BACK,"
DROPS THANKSGIVING WEEKEND ON
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00:29:38,686 --> 00:29:46,627
DISNEY+.
IT ADDS CONSIDERABLE LIGHT AND
JOY TO WHAT WAS ALWAYS
CONSIDERED TO BE THE BEATLES'
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00:29:46,694 --> 00:29:52,433
DARKEST PERIOD.
YOU MIGHT SAY, JACKSON TOOK A
SAD SONG, AND-- WELL, YOU KNOW
THE REST.
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00:29:52,500 --> 00:30:04,145
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Wertheim: OFTEN AS WE HEAR
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00:30:04,212 --> 00:30:11,352
BANDS PLAY, WE RARELY GLIMPSE
BANDS AT WORK, MUCH LESS THE
BIGGEST BAND THAT EVER WAS.
WELL, TELEPORT TO 1969, AND MEET
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00:30:11,419 --> 00:30:21,729
THE BEATLES.
♪ ♪ ♪
YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON TO LOOK
AT THIS WITH FRESH EYES IN YEARS
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00:30:21,796 --> 00:30:25,600
AND YEARS.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE WATCHING THIS
FOOTAGE?
>> Peter Jackson: IT WAS
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00:30:25,666 --> 00:30:29,837
FASCINATING.
AND AFTER 50 YEARS, YOU'D HAVE
EVERY RIGHT TO BELIEVE THAT
EVERYTHING WITH THE BEATLES HAD
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00:30:29,904 --> 00:30:34,609
BEEN TALKED ABOUT.
EVERY BIT OF FILM HAD BEEN SEEN,
EVERY BIT OF MUSIC HAD BEEN
HEARD, THAT THERE WAS NO MORE
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00:30:34,675 --> 00:30:42,216
SURPRISES WITH THE BEATLES.
>> Wertheim: FROM HIS BASE IN
NEW ZEALAND, DIRECTOR PETER
JACKSON TOOK A BREAK FROM
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00:30:42,283 --> 00:30:51,292
DIRECTING BIG-BUDGET STUDIO
FILMS LIKE "LORD OF THE RINGS,"
AND HAS SPENT THE LAST FOUR
YEARS HANGING OUT WITH JOHN,
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00:30:51,359 --> 00:30:59,033
PAUL, GEORGE AND RINGO.
>> Jackson: SUDDENLY, BANG, OUT
OF NOWHERE COMES THIS INCREDIBLE
TREASURE TROVE OF FLY-ON-THE-
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00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:04,939
WALL MATERIAL, 52 YEARS LATER.
IT STILL BLOWS MY MIND.
IT ACTUALLY, HONESTLY STILL
BLOWS MY MIND.
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00:31:05,006 --> 00:31:10,911
>> Paul McCartney: SO HOW ABOUT,
HOW ABOUT CHANGING AROUND THESE
TWO, AND WHEN YOU SING "DON'T
YOU KNOW IT'S GOING TO LAST,"
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00:31:10,978 --> 00:31:19,954
WE SING, "IT'S A LOVE THAT HAS
NO PAST."
>> Wertheim: SO, GIVE US SOME
HISTORICAL CONTEXT HERE.
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00:31:20,021 --> 00:31:24,492
UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES WAS
THIS FOOTAGE SHOT?
>> Jackson: THEY'VE LOST WHAT
THEY LOVED AS TEENAGERS.
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00:31:24,558 --> 00:31:30,598
THEY'VE LOST BEING THE FOUR GUYS
PLAYING IN A BAND.
SO, THEY'RE GOING TO RECORD A
NEW ALBUM WITH SONGS THAT ONLY--
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00:31:30,665 --> 00:31:33,934
THAT THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO PLAY
LIVE.
AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO ANY
STUDIO TRICKS.
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00:31:34,001 --> 00:31:38,539
THERE'S GOING TO BE NO
MULTITRACKING.
AND THEY HAD TO-- THEY HAD TO
FIGURE OUT WHERE AND HOW THEY
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00:31:38,606 --> 00:31:44,478
WERE GOING TO PERFORM TO AN
AUDIENCE.
>> McCartney: BOM, CHA, BOM-BOM.
>> Wertheim: AS THE BEATLES
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00:31:44,545 --> 00:31:50,751
WROTE AND REHEARSED, THEY
ALLOWED A FILM CREW TO CAPTURE
EVERY RIFF, BOTH ON GUITAR AND
IN CONVERSATION.
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00:31:50,818 --> 00:31:56,691
>> McCartney: I MEAN, CORNY IS
ALL RIGHT IN THIS ONE, BECAUSE
WHAT HE'S DOING IS CORNY.
BUT SEE, THAT'S THE THING THAT
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00:31:56,757 --> 00:32:02,096
WILL MAKE IT NOT CORNY, IS IF WE
SING DIFFERENT WORDS.
SO IT'S-- "I'M IN LOVE FOR THE
FIRST TIME."
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00:32:02,163 --> 00:32:07,134
>> Wertheim: THE MONTHS'-WORTH
OF FILMING YIELDED ONLY THE
FORGETTABLE 80-MINUTE
DOCUMENTARY, "LET IT BE,"
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00:32:07,201 --> 00:32:17,745
RELEASED A YEAR LATER, AFTER THE
BEATLES BROKE UP.
A LIFELONG BEATLES FAN, PETER
JACKSON HAD ALWAYS WONDERED,
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00:32:17,812 --> 00:32:24,318
WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO ALL THOSE
HOURS OF UNSEEN FOOTAGE?
>> Jonathan Clyde: SO, HERE WE
ARE IN VAULT NUMBER THREE.
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00:32:24,385 --> 00:32:30,091
>> Wertheim: HIS TOLKIEN-LIKE
QUEST TOOK HIM DEEP UNDER THE
LONDON HEADQUARTERS OF APPLE
CORPS, THE BEATLES' LABEL.
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00:32:30,157 --> 00:32:36,230
>> Jackson: THEY JUST SAID,
"WE'VE GOT IT ALL.
WE'VE GOT 57 HOURS OF FOOTAGE.
WE'VE GOT 130 HOURS OF AUDIO."
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00:32:36,297 --> 00:32:43,104
AND THEN THEY SAID THAT THEY
WERE THINKING ABOUT MAKING A
DOCUMENTARY USING THE FOOTAGE.
I JUST PUT UP MY HAND AND SAID,
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00:32:43,170 --> 00:32:49,944
"WELL, IF-- IF YOU ARE LOOKING
FOR SOMEBODY TO MAKE IT?
DON'T-- PLEASE JUST-- THINK--
THINK OF ME."
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00:32:50,010 --> 00:32:56,717
>> Wertheim: BACK IN NEW
ZEALAND, JACKSON BEGAN THE
ULTIMATE BINGE-WATCH, SCREENING
THIS MUSICAL MOTHER LODE, FRAME
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00:32:56,784 --> 00:33:05,726
BY FRAME.
GIVEN THAT ANY BEATLES FAN WILL
TELL YOU THAT "LET IT BE" COMES
SHROUDED IN SADNESS-- FOREVER
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00:33:05,793 --> 00:33:12,533
ASSOCIATED WITH THE GREAT
DIVORCE IN ROCK AND ROLL
HISTORY-- JACKSON BRACED FOR THE
GLOOMY WORST.
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00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:18,272
>> Jackson: I WAS WATCHING, I
WAS WAITING FOR IT TO GET BAD.
I WAS WAITING FOR THE NARRATIVE
THAT I'D BELIEVED OVER THE YEARS
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00:33:18,339 --> 00:33:23,377
TO START HAPPENING.
I WAS WAITING FOR THE ARGUMENTS.
WAITING FOR THE DISCONTENT.
WAITING FOR THE MISERY.
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00:33:23,444 --> 00:33:27,915
AND, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
I MEAN, IT SHOWS-- YOU KNOW, IT
SHOWS ISSUES.
IT SHOWS PROBLEMS.
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00:33:27,982 --> 00:33:33,220
BUT-- BUT ANY BAND, ANY TIME,
HAS THO-- HAS THOSE-- HAS THOSE
PROBLEMS.
THIS IS NOT A BAND THAT'S
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00:33:33,287 --> 00:33:37,725
BREAKING UP.
THESE ARE NOT GUYS THAT DISLIKE
EACH OTHER.
THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M-- WHAT--
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00:33:37,792 --> 00:33:44,064
WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE.
THAT'S NOT WHAT WAS BEING
FILMED.
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00:33:46,167 --> 00:33:50,638
>> John Lennon: YEAH, BUT THE
WAY I WAS PLAYING IT, IT WAS
STARTING ON F.
>> Wertheim: HERE'S WHAT WAS
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00:33:50,704 --> 00:33:58,479
BEING FILMED: THE FOUR
LIVERPUDLIANS IN THEIR LATE 20s,
WORKING COLLABORATIVELY,
SURROUNDED BY A STRIKINGLY
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00:33:58,546 --> 00:34:08,389
SMALL, TIGHT ENTOURAGE.
THERE'S LINDA-- LINDA EASTMAN,
AT THE TIME-- TAKING PHOTOS.
AND, OF COURSE, YOKO ONO.
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00:34:08,456 --> 00:34:14,361
AS LONG AS WE'RE HERE, LET'S
DISPENSE NOW WITH THAT FAMOUS
BIT OF BEATLES BREAK-UP
MYTHOLOGY.
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00:34:14,428 --> 00:34:21,135
THE CASUAL FAN LOOKING FOR "YOKO
ONO BROKE UP THE BEATLES"
MIGHT COME AWAY FROM THIS
DISAPPOINTED, I SUSPECT.
296
00:34:21,202 --> 00:34:26,874
>> Giles Martin: YEAH, I THINK
THAT'S A GOOD THING, YOU KNOW.
I MEAN, YOKO DIDN'T BREAK UP THE
BEATLES.
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00:34:26,941 --> 00:34:30,311
AND-- AND NO ONE THING BROKE UP
THE BEATLES.
>> George Martin: THAT'S THE
ORIGINAL.
298
00:34:30,377 --> 00:34:34,448
>> Giles Martin: THAT'S THE
ORIGINAL.
>> Wertheim: GILES MARTIN IS THE
SON OF LATE BEATLES PRODUCER
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00:34:34,515 --> 00:34:41,255
GEORGE MARTIN.
GILES GREW UP IN THE BEATLES
ORBIT, AND HAS SINCE REMIXED
MOST OF THE BAND'S ALBUMS.
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00:34:41,322 --> 00:34:48,496
WHEN PETER JACKSON ENLISTED HIM
FOR THIS SERIES, MARTIN PLOWED
THROUGH ALL THE HUNDREDS OF
HOURS OF AUDIO AND VIDEO.
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00:34:48,562 --> 00:34:55,035
>> Giles Martin: YOU CAN SEE THE
CRACKS APPEARING.
THE ONE THING ABOUT THIS MOVIE
IS THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHY
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00:34:55,102 --> 00:34:59,840
THEY WERE GETTING TIRED OF EACH
OTHER.
BECAUSE YOU GET THE SENSE OF
WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE IN A ROOM
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00:34:59,907 --> 00:35:06,480
WITH THEM, WHICH IS SUCH A
PRIVILEGE FOR ALL OF US.
>> Wertheim: DESPITE THOSE
CRACKS, THE BEATLES ALCHEMY
304
00:35:06,547 --> 00:35:15,789
REMAINS POTENT.
>> Jackson: AT ONE POINT, WE
HAVE FOOTAGE OF PAUL McCARTNEY
SORT OF STRUMMING ON-- ON HIS
305
00:35:15,856 --> 00:35:22,296
BASS, WHICH HE USES AS A GUITAR
HALF THE TIME.
JUST SORT OF STRUMMING.
I THINK IT'S EARLY IN THE
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00:35:22,363 --> 00:35:30,938
MORNING, AND THEY'RE WAITING FOR
JOHN TO-- HASN'T ARRIVED YET.
HE'S JUST BIDING SOME TIME.
HE SLOWLY FINDS THE TUNE.
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00:35:31,005 --> 00:35:37,511
♪("GET BACK")
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00:35:39,446 --> 00:35:43,984
>> Jackson: AND SO, YOU SEE THIS
SONG KIND OF JUST BE PLUCKED OUT
OF THIN AIR.
>> McCartney: LEFT HIS HOME IN
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00:35:44,051 --> 00:35:48,589
TUCSON, ARIZONA.
>> Lennon: IS TUCSON IN ARIZONA?
>> McCartney: YEAH.
IT'S WHERE THEY MAKE "HIGH
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00:35:48,656 --> 00:35:53,627
CHAPARRAL."
LIKE, I CAN MAKE SENSE OF IT.
JOJO LEFT HIS HOME, HOPING IT
WOULD BE A BLAST, PRETTY SOON HE
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00:35:53,694 --> 00:35:59,700
FOUND THAT HE'D HAVE TO BE A
LONER WITH SOME CALIFORNIA
GRASS.
AND NOW YOU THINK, OKAY, THAT
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00:35:59,767 --> 00:36:06,440
MAKES SENSE, BUT IT DOESN'T SING
GOOD.
>> Wertheim: THE BEATLES HAD
ALWAYS BEEN FURIOUSLY
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00:36:06,507 --> 00:36:17,051
PRODUCTIVE, BUT THIS WAS THE
CREATIVE PROCESS IN DOUBLE TIME:
14 SONGS IN 22 DAYS.
WAS THAT AS MUCH AN ABSURD TIME
314
00:36:17,117 --> 00:36:22,323
PRESSURE IN 1969 AS IT WOULD
APPEAR TO BE TODAY?
>> Giles Martin: YEAH.
THIS IS THE BIGGEST BAND ON THE
315
00:36:22,389 --> 00:36:27,494
PLANET, SAYING WE'RE GOING TO
DO-- WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR FIRST
SHOW IN THREE YEARS, IN THREE
WEEKS' TIME.
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00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:33,167
BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S
GOING TO BE, AND WE DON'T KNOW
WHAT SONGS WE'RE GOING TO PLAY.
>> Wertheim: AS YOU LISTEN TO
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00:36:33,233 --> 00:36:39,940
ALL THE RECORDINGS FOR THIS
PROJECT, WHAT IMPRESSIONS DID
YOU ARRIVE AT, IN TERMS OF THEIR
CHEMISTRY?
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00:36:40,007 --> 00:36:47,381
>> Giles Martin: MY IMPRESSION
OF IT IS THAT PAUL AND JOHN KIND
OF KNEW THAT THEY WERE GROWING
APART, AND "LET IT BE" WAS
319
00:36:47,448 --> 00:36:54,421
ALMOST LIKE A MARRIAGE THAT'S
FAILING, AND THEY WANT TO GO
BACK ON THEIR DATE NIGHTS AGAIN.
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00:36:55,789 --> 00:37:02,529
>> Wertheim: COMPOUNDING
MATTERS, GEORGE HARRISON--
RESTLESS IN HIS ROLE AND
BRISTLING UNDER PAUL McCARTNEY'S
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00:37:02,596 --> 00:37:07,701
DRIVING AMBITION-- LEAVES THE
BAND AFTER A WEEK.
>> Jackson: IT'S THE MOST LOW-
KEY WALK-OUT THAT YOU'VE EVER
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00:37:07,768 --> 00:37:12,740
SEEN IN YOUR LIFE.
IT'S JUST-- "I'M LEAVING NOW."
"WHAT?"
"I'M LEAVING THE BAND NOW."
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00:37:12,806 --> 00:37:17,745
AND THEN HE GOES.
THERE'S NO FIGHT, THERE'S NO
ARGUMENT, THERE'S NO
DISAGREEMENT.
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00:37:17,811 --> 00:37:24,852
>> Wertheim: JOHN WAS IN LOVE
WITH YOKO AND, IN HIS WORDS, HE
WAS MISTREATING HIS BODY.
THE BAND WAS COMPETING FOR HIS
325
00:37:24,918 --> 00:37:30,524
ATTENTION-- NOT ALWAYS
SUCCESSFULLY.
>> Lennon: WHEN I WAS YOUNGER,
MUCH YOUNGER THAN TODAY, I NEVER
326
00:37:30,591 --> 00:37:39,800
NEEDED ANYBODY'S HELP IN ANY
WAY.
BUT NOW MY LIFE HAS CHANGED IN
OH-SO-MANY WAYS, A WOP-BOP-
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00:37:39,867 --> 00:37:47,041
ALOOMA, A-WOP-BAM-BOO.
>> McCartney: WE CAN'T CARRY ON
LIKE THIS INDEFINITELY.
>> Lennon: WE SEEM TO BE.
328
00:37:47,107 --> 00:37:54,615
>> McCartney: WE SEEM TO, BUT WE
CAN'T.
SEE, WHAT YOU NEED IS A SERIOUS
PROGRAM OF WORK, NOT AN AIMLESS
329
00:37:54,682 --> 00:38:01,622
RAMBLING AMONGST THE CANYONS OF
YOUR MIND.
>> Wertheim: PAUL HAD,
GRUDGINGLY, BECOME THE BAND'S
330
00:38:01,689 --> 00:38:08,295
HALL MONITOR, MORE LEAD THAN
SINGER.
GEORGE WAS PERSUADED TO COME
BACK, BUT WITH THE LIVE
331
00:38:08,362 --> 00:38:15,302
PERFORMANCE APPROACHING, THE
BEATLES DECIDED THEY NEEDED A
CHANGE OF SCENERY.
THEY RELOCATED TO A MAKESHIFT
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00:38:15,369 --> 00:38:21,775
STUDIO IN THE BASEMENT OF APPLE
RECORDS.
>> Lennon: I DIG A PYGMY BY
CHARLES HAWTREY AND THE DEAF
333
00:38:21,842 --> 00:38:28,882
AIDS.
PHASE ONE, IN WHICH DORIS GETS
HER OATS.
334
00:38:30,417 --> 00:38:37,224
>> Wertheim: A SURGE OF FRESH
ENERGY ALSO CAME IN THE FORM OF
A KEYBOARD PLAYER: BILLY
PRESTON, A 22-YEAR-OLD TEXAN
335
00:38:37,291 --> 00:38:51,338
BROUGHT IN BY GEORGE.
♪ ("GET BACK")
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
336
00:38:51,405 --> 00:39:02,282
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
WHAT WAS THE INFLUENCE OF BILLY
PRESTON ON THIS ALBUM, AND ON
337
00:39:02,349 --> 00:39:07,354
THE BEATLES AT THE TIME?
>> Giles Martin: THIS HOTSHOT
COMES IN AND THEY JUST HAD TO
SUDDENLY IMPROVE THEIR PLAYING,
338
00:39:07,421 --> 00:39:13,594
BECAUSE THEY HAD THIS FORCE OF
NATURE IN THE ROOM WITH THEM.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE DID.
I THINK HE WORKED AS A CATALYST
339
00:39:13,660 --> 00:39:22,970
AND GALVANIZED THEM SO THEY
COULD MAKE THE RECORD AND/OR DO
THE RIGHT PERFORMANCE.
>> Wertheim: IT'S AN UPBEAT
340
00:39:23,036 --> 00:39:31,245
SCENE, AT ODDS WITH HOW SO MANY
REMEMBERED THAT TIME, NOT LEAST
THE PRINCIPALS THEMSELVES.
BUT PETER JACKSON'S "GET BACK"
341
00:39:31,311 --> 00:39:38,152
SERIES DOESN'T JUST RESTORE LOST
FOOTAGE, OR THE BEATLES' MUSIC;
IT RESTORES SOMETHING MUCH
DEEPER.
342
00:39:38,218 --> 00:39:44,124
YOU MENTIONED MEMORY BEFORE.
I WONDER, DID THEIR
RECOLLECTIONS MATCH UP WITH
THIS-- THIS DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE
343
00:39:44,191 --> 00:39:49,630
YOU WERE PRESENTING THEM WITH?
>> Jackson: 50 YEARS LATER, I'M
TALKING TO-- TO RINGO AND PAUL.
AND THEIR MEMORY WAS VERY
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00:39:49,696 --> 00:39:54,635
MISERABLE AND UNHAPPY.
AND I'D SAY, "LOOK, WHAT--
WHATEVER YOUR MEMORIES ARE,
WHATEVER YOU THINK YOUR MEMORIES
345
00:39:54,701 --> 00:40:00,808
ARE, THIS IS THE ACTUAL TRUTH OF
IT.
AND HERE, LOOK.
LOOK AT-- LOOK AT THIS."
346
00:40:00,874 --> 00:40:14,922
♪("THE TWO OF US")
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
347
00:40:14,988 --> 00:40:19,593
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Jackson: THEY STARTED TO
REALIZE WHAT-- WHAT THIS IS.
I MEAN, THIS IS A-- AN
348
00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:24,832
INCREDIBLY AMAZING HISTORICAL
DOCUMENT OF THE BEATLES AT WORK.
AND FOUR FRIENDS AT WORK.
AND CLEARLY, THEY'RE FOUR
349
00:40:24,898 --> 00:40:39,046
FRIENDS.
♪ ("FOR YOU, BLUE")
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
350
00:40:39,112 --> 00:40:48,622
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Wertheim: THE LOOMING
DEADLINE DIDN'T EXACTLY DAMPEN
351
00:40:48,689 --> 00:41:01,134
THE MOOD IN THE STUDIO.
♪ ("DIG IT")
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
352
00:41:01,201 --> 00:41:09,042
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Wertheim: AND WHAT OF THE
CULMINATION OF THESE SESSIONS,
THAT LIVE PERFORMANCE?
353
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:15,082
THE BAND SIMPLY WALKED UP A FEW
FLIGHTS OF STAIRS, AND ON
JANUARY 30, 1969, PLAYED ATOP
THE APPLE OFFICES.
354
00:41:15,148 --> 00:41:29,162
♪ ("GET BACK")
♪ ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Wertheim: NO ONE AT THE TIME
355
00:41:29,229 --> 00:41:36,937
SUSPECTED IT, BUT THIS WOULD
MARK THE BEATLES' FINAL
PERFORMANCE, BEFORE SPLITTING UP
14 MONTHS LATER.
356
00:41:37,004 --> 00:41:46,713
IT TOOK A HALF CENTURY, AND AN
EXACTING DIRECTOR ON THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE WORLD-- WHO KNOWS
PLENTY ABOUT THE POWER OF MYTH--
357
00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:55,522
TO REVISE THE LORE SURROUNDING
THE BEATLES BREAK-UP AND SET THE
RECORD STRAIGHT.
♪ ♪ ♪
358
00:41:55,589 --> 00:42:00,127
♪ ♪ ♪
( TICKING )
359
00:42:02,262 --> 00:42:13,674
>> HOW A TECH BREAKTHROUGH
REVEALED HIDDEN BEATLES
CONVERSATIONS.
>> CH
360
00:42:15,042 --> 00:42:23,016
>> Whitaker: NEXT SUNDAY ON
"60 MINUTES:" AN IDEA WHOSE TIME
HAS COME, AND GONE, AND NOW MAY
BE COMING AGAIN: SUPERSONIC
361
00:42:23,083 --> 00:42:31,224
PASSENGER PLANES.
WE WENT TO THE START-UP COMPANY
BOOM TO SEE HOW CLOSE WE ARE.
AND, THERE WAS THE TEST PLANE
362
00:42:31,291 --> 00:42:37,164
ALREADY ON THE HANGER FLOOR.
>> Blake Scholl: THAT'S IT.
>> Whitaker: OH, WOW.
>> Scholl: WHAT I WANT IS TO BE
363
00:42:37,230 --> 00:42:44,237
ABLE TO BE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD
IN FOUR HOURS, FOR 100 BUCKS.
NOW, THAT'S NOT WHERE WE START.
BUT THAT'S THE END GOAL.
364
00:42:44,304 --> 00:42:47,307
>> Whitaker: I'M BILL WHITAKER.
WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH