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Captioning funded by CBS
and FORD.
We go further, so you can.
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>> SUSPICIOUS OF THE BIDEN
ADMINISTRATION, GUN RIGHTS
ADVOCATES ARE LOOKING TO THEIR
STATES TO KEEP THEIR RIGHTS,
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RIGHT WHERE THEY WANT THEM.
HAVE YOU HEARD FROM LEGISLATORS
IN OTHER STATES WHO SAY, "WE
WANT TO DO THE SAME THING"?
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>> ABSOLUTELY.
I'VE BEEN CONTACTED BY MULTIPLE
LEGISLATORS, ACROSS THE UNITED
STATES.
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>> OPPONENTS TO THE MISSOURI
LEGISLATION AREN'T WHO YOU MIGHT
EXPECT.
SEVERAL POLICEMEN AND SHERIFFS
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THAT WE'VE SPOKEN TO HAVE TOLD
US THAT THIS LAW BENEFITS
CRIMINALS.
IS THAT TOO STRONG OF A
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STATEMENT?
>> NO.
I DON'T THINK IT DOES, I KNOW IT
DOES.
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( TICKING )
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>> MY FIRST REACTION WAS, "THIS
ISN'T MICRON DROPLETS THAT'S
COMING OUT FROM THE SEA FLOOR--
THIS IS AN UNDERWATER VOLCANO."
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>> HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE
LONGEST RUNNING OIL SPILL IN
U.S. HISTORY.
AND TONIGHT, YOU'LL HEAR HOW
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THIS HOMEGROWN CAJUN ENGINEER
AND THIS NO-NONSENSE COAST GUARD
CAPTAIN SAID "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH,"
AND HATCHED A PLAN-- FIRST TRIED
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IN A BACKYARD POOL-- TO STANCH A
SPILL THAT HAS SULLIED THE GULF
OF MEXICO FOR ALMOST TWO
DECADES.
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( TICKING )
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>> HOW DO YOU DEFINE "HERO?"
>> WE DEFINE IT AS-- AT LEAST IN
TERMS OF OUR MEDAL-AWARDING
REQUIREMENT-- AS A MAN OR A
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WOMAN THAT WILLINGLY AND
KNOWINGLY RISKS THEIR LIFE, TO
AN EXTRAORDINARY DEGREE, TO SAVE
OR ATTEMPT TO SAVE THE LIFE OF
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ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.
>> THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN AWARDED
THECARNEGIE HERO MEDAL, ALONG
WITH A $5,500 PRIZE.
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WE WONDERED WHY SOME PEOPLE ARE
HEROIC, SO WE WENT TO GEORGETOWN
UNIVERSITY TO SEE THE
NEUROSCIENCE FOR OURSELVES.
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( TICKING )
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>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
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>> I'M NORAH O'DONNELL.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.
THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT,
ON "60 MINUTES."
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( TICKING )
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>> Norah O'Donnell: A NEW AND
POTENTIALLY PRECEDENT-SETTING
STATE GUN LAW PASSED IN THE
SPRING IN MISSOURI.
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IT'S CALLED THE SECOND AMENDMENT
PRESERVATION ACT, OR SAPA FOR
SHORT.
IT PROHIBITS STATE AGENCIES FROM
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HELPING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
ENFORCE ANY LAW, RULE, OR
REGULATION WHICH MISSOURI
CONSIDERS AN INFRINGEMENT ON THE
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RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.
EACH VIOLATION CAN CARRY A
$50,000 PENALTY.
THINK OF IT LIKE THIS: FOR A
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POLICE OFFICER IN MISSOURI,
FEDERAL GUN LAWS, EFFECTIVELY,
NO LONGER EXIST.
MISSOURI DEMOCRATS AND LAWYERS
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AT THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE ARGUE THE NEW LAW IS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL, BUT WHAT GOT
OUR ATTENTION IS THAT A
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00:02:54,183 --> 00:03:00,356
SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF
CONSERVATIVE POLICE AND
PROSECUTORS WHO LOVE THEIR GUNS,
DON'T LIKE THIS LAW.
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>> Kacey Proctor: I THINK A LOT
OF PEOPLE, WHEN THEY HEAR ABOUT
THIS BILL-- AT LEAST A LOT OF
PEOPLE IN MISSOURI THAT HAVE
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HEARD-- THEY THINK, "THIS IS
GREAT.
THE STATE OF MISSOURI'S TOLD THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO GO MIND
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THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND STAY AWAY
FROM OUR GUNS."
BUT WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS
IMPACT A LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT
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OFFICER'S ABILITY TO DO THEIR
JOB.
>> O'Donnell: KACEY PROCTOR
SERVES AS THE PROSECUTOR FOR
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RURAL BUTLER COUNTY.
STEVE SOKOLOFF IS GENERAL
COUNSEL FOR THE MISSOURI
ASSOCIATION OF PROSECUTING
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ATTORNEYS.
DO YOU HAVE A HISTORY OF
OPPOSING LAWS THAT WOULD EXPAND
SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS IN
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MISSOURI?
>> Proctor: ABSOLUTELY NOT.
I'M A MEMBER OF TWO DIFFERENT
GUN CLUBS.
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I SHOOT ONCE A WEEK, AT MINIMUM.
MY KIDS SHOOT.
MY SEVEN-YEAR-OLD OWNS MULTIPLE
FIREARMS.
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I AM ALL IN FAVOR OF RESPONSIBLE
PEOPLE OWNING FIREARMS, AND
RAISING THEIR CHILDREN TO OWN
FIREARMS RESPONSIBLY.
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AND SO, YEAH, I'M 100% IN FAVOR
OF EXPANDING SECOND AMENDMENT
RIGHTS.
>> O'Donnell: SO, THEN, WHY DO
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YOU OPPOSE MISSOURI'S SECOND
AMENDMENT PRESERVATION ACT?
>> Proctor: WHAT I OPPOSE ABOUT
IT, AND WHAT I WOULD ASK FOR, TO
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BE-- TO BE LOOKED AT AND
POSSIBLY FIXED, IS THE ABILITY
FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS TO
INTERACT WITH THEIR FEDERAL
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PARTNERS, TO GO AFTER PEOPLE WHO
ARE VIOLENT IN NATURE AND ARE
COMMITTING CRIMES IN OUR
COMMUNITY.
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>> President Joe Biden: WE
SHOULD ALSO BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS
AND HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES IN
THIS COUNTRY.
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>> O'Donnell: PRESIDENT BIDEN'S
REPEATED CALLS FOR STRICTER GUN
CONTROL LAWS MOTIVATED
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS IN
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MISSOURI TO PASS THE SECOND
AMENDMENT PRESERVATION ACT.
AND, THIS PAST JUNE, AT A GUN
STORE OUTSIDE OF KANSAS CITY
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CALLED FRONTIER JUSTICE,
GOVERNOR MIKE PARSON SIGNED IT
INTO LAW.
SUPPORTERS HAILED THE BILL AS A
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LEGAL SHIELD TO SAFEGUARD
MISSOURIANS' GUN RIGHTS FROM
WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE FEDERAL
OVERREACH.
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I MEAN, MISSOURIANS DID
OVERWHELMINGLY ELECT A
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE AND A
REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR.
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I MEAN, ISN'T THIS JUST
DEMOCRACY?
>> Steve Sokoloff: I THINK THAT-
- THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC, IF
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THEY UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS IN THIS
STATUTE, THAT-- THAT THEY
WOULDN'T BE IN FAVOR OF IT.
>> O'Donnell: AT THE CORE OF THE
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BILL LIES A BOLD PROCLAMATION:
"ALL FEDERAL LAWS AND
REGULATIONS THAT INFRINGE ON THE
PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR
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ARMS, AS GUARANTEED BY THE
SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE U.S.
CONSTITUTION AND THE
CONSTITUTION OF MISSOURI, SHALL
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BE REJECTED BY THIS STATE, AND
SHALL NOT BE ENFORCED BY THIS
STATE."
THE BILL OUTLAWS MISSOURI STATE
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RESOURCES FROM BEING USED TO
FURTHER FEDERAL GUN REGULATION.
BUT THE SWEEPING LAW DOESN'T
STOP THERE.
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IT ALSO DICTATES UNDER WHAT
CIRCUMSTANCES A MISSOURI OFFICER
CAN HELP A FEDERAL AGENT
INVESTIGATE OR PROSECUTE A GUN
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CRIME.
THE PROSECUTORS SAY IT'S THESE
PROVISIONS OF THE LAW THAT ARE
VAGUE, POORLY WRITTEN, AND
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CREATE A LEGAL MINEFIELD FOR
MISSOURI LAW ENFORCEMENT.
AGENCIES THAT BREAK THE LAW ARE
"SUBJECT TO A CIVIL PENALTY OF
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$50,000," PAYABLE TO A
MISSOURIAN WHO BELIEVES THEIR
SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS WERE
VIOLATED.
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>> Sokoloff: AND THE PROBLEM
HERE IS THAT-- THAT IT HAS A
TREMENDOUSLY CHILLING EFFECT ON-
- ON-- LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS,
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00:06:03,239 --> 00:06:07,309
BECAUSE THEY'RE PUT IN A
POSITION OF GUESSING ABOUT WHAT
CONDUCT IS PROHIBITED BY THE
STATUTE.
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>> O'Donnell: IT SEEMS LIKE THIS
LAW WOULD FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND
THE WAY IT WORKS HERE IN
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MISSOURI.
>> Sokoloff: IT ALREADY HAS.
>> O'Donnell: WE'VE LEARNED
MISSOURI LAW ENFORCEMENT
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00:06:18,621 --> 00:06:23,225
AGENCIES PULLED AT LEAST A DOZEN
OFFICERS FROM FEDERAL TASK
FORCES THAT TARGETED ILLEGAL
GUNS.
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00:06:23,292 --> 00:06:31,200
IN ADDITION, THE STATE HIGHWAY
PATROL'S INFORMATION AND
ANALYSIS CENTER WILL NO LONGER
PROVIDE INVESTIGATIVE SUPPORT TO
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THE BUREAU OF ALCOHOL TOBACCO
AND FIREARMS, OR A.T.F.
KANSAS CITY MAYOR QUINTON LUCAS
TOLD US THIS COULD NOT BE
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HAPPENING AT A WORSE TIME FOR
MISSOURI, WHERE THE MURDER RATE
IN THE STATE IS NEARLY TWICE THE
NATIONAL AVERAGE.
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BEFORE THE LAW PASSED, IT WAS
ROUTINE FOR LOCAL POLICE TO WORK
WITH THEIR FEDERAL PARTNERS.
WHY DOES LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT
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WANT THE HELP OF THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT WHEN IT COMES TO
DEALING WITH GUN VIOLENCE?
>> Quinton Lucas: THE VOLUME OF
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CRIME, THE VOLUME OF INCIDENTS.
ON A NIGHT IN KANSAS CITY, YOU
CAN HAVE MULTIPLE PEOPLE SHOT.
IN THE SAME WAY THAT, IF YOU
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HAVE A SEVERE STORM HIT A CITY,
WE BRING IN FEDERAL RESOURCES TO
HELP US WITH THAT CRISIS.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH GUN
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00:07:12,942 --> 00:07:18,881
VIOLENCE RIGHT NOW IN SOME OF
AMERICA'S MAJOR CITIES--
PARTICULARLY IN THE MIDWEST,
PARTICULARLY IN MISSOURI.
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>> O'Donnell: MAYOR LUCAS SAYS
HE'S CONCERNED THAT UNDER
MISSOURI STATE LAW, PEOPLE
CONVICTED OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
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MISDEMEANORS ARE STILL ALLOWED
TO HAVE A GUN.
>> Lucas: THERE'S BEEN A
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LOOPHOLE IN
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MISSOURI LAW FOR YEARS NOW.
THE SAVING GRACE ALONE WAS THAT
THERE WAS A FEDERAL LAW THAT A
POLICE OFFICER COULD SAY THEY'RE
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VIOLATING.
NOW THAT WE LOSE THAT, WHAT DOES
THIS MEAN FOR SO MANY
MISSOURIANS?
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SO MANY SURVIVORS OF DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE?
I HOPE IT DOESN'T MAKE THEM
VICTIMS.
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>> O'Donnell: SINCE 2017, THE
F.B.I. HAS IDENTIFIED 744 PEOPLE
IN MISSOURI CONVICTED OF A
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE MISDEMEANOR
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WHO THEN BROKE FEDERAL LAW WHEN
THEY TRIED TO BUY A GUN.
ACCORDING TO THE A.T.F., LOCAL
LAW ENFORCEMENT WAS KEY TO
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INVESTIGATING THESE CASES ON THE
GROUND IN MISSOURI.
IF THOSE SAME OFFICERS HELPED
THE A.T.F. WITH CASES LIKE THAT
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TODAY, THEY WOULD BE BREAKING
STATE LAW.
ARE LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT
ESSENTIALLY GOING TO STOP AND
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00:08:19,275 --> 00:08:25,748
THINK TWICE BEFORE TRYING TO
STOP SOMEONE WITH AN ILLEGAL
GUN?
>> Lucas: YES.
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00:08:25,814 --> 00:08:32,488
NOW, IF YOU STOP SOMEONE WITH A
FIREARM, YOU MAY BE ASKING
YOURSELF, "DO I WANT TO BE
SUBJECT TO LITIGATION?
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DO I WANT TO SUBJECT MY
DEPARTMENT TO LIABILITY?"
AND IN MANY CASES, THE ANSWER'S
GOING TO BE NO.
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>> O'Donnell: ST. LOUIS AND
JACKSON COUNTY ARE SUING TO STOP
MISSOURI'S SECOND AMENDMENT
PRESERVATION ACT IN STATE COURT-
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00:08:45,234 --> 00:08:49,939
- SO FAR, WITHOUT SUCCESS.
IN SOUTHEAST MISSOURI, POLICE
AND PROSECUTORS STARTED A
CAMPAIGN TO HAVE THE LAW
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CHANGED.
CHIEF DANNY WHITELEY IS LEADING
THAT EFFORT.
>> Danny Whiteley: SOMETHING
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BAD'S GOING TO HAPPEN, AND I'M
GOING TO BE THE FIRST ONE TO
SAY, "I TOLD YOU SO."
>> O'Donnell: HE'S THE LONGEST-
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SERVING POLICE CHIEF IN THE
HISTORY OF POPLAR BLUFF, A SMALL
CITY NEAR THE OZARKS THAT HE
SAYS HAS A BIG-CITY GUN VIOLENCE
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00:09:09,258 --> 00:09:15,164
PROBLEM.
CHIEF WHITELEY TOLD US, HE'S NO
LONGER WORKING WITH FEDERAL
PROSECUTORS, AND MISSES THE
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00:09:15,230 --> 00:09:23,205
HELP.
>> Whiteley: NUMBER ONE, THEY
HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCES THAT WE
DON'T, MANPOWER-WISE AND
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FORENSICS-WISE.
AND, IF THEY GET CONVICTED IN
FEDERAL COURT, THEY'RE GOING TO
DO 85% OF THE TIME.
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>> O'Donnell: HE SHARED WITH US
SUMMARIES OF NINE RECENT ALLEGED
GUN CRIMES HE SAYS HE WOULD
USUALLY REFER TO THE NEARBY U.S.
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00:09:37,152 --> 00:09:43,258
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR
PROSECUTION.
YEAH, I'VE LOOKED AT SOME OF
THEM, AND ONE OF THEM IS A GUY
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00:09:43,325 --> 00:09:48,097
WHO SHOT AT HIS EX-GIRLFRIEND,
SHOT AT HER VEHICLE IN A
6CONVENIENCE STORE.
>> Whiteley: CORRECT.
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00:09:48,163 --> 00:09:50,899
>> O'Donnell: BUT YOU'RE NOT
GOING TO REFER THAT TO A FEDERAL
PROSECUTOR?
>> Whiteley: THAT'S CORRECT.
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>> O'Donnell: WHY?
>> Whiteley: BECAUSE OF THE
$50,000 FINE.
>> O'Donnell: SEVERAL POLICEMEN
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AND SHERIFFS THAT WE'VE SPOKEN
TO HAVE TOLD US THEY THINK THAT
THIS LAW BENEFITS CRIMINALS.
IS THAT TOO STRONG OF A
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00:10:03,145 --> 00:10:07,216
STATEMENT?
>> Whiteley: NO.
I DON'T THINK IT DOES, I KNOW IT
DOES.
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00:10:07,282 --> 00:10:14,390
>> O'Donnell: BUTLER COUNTY
PROSECUTOR KACEY PROCTOR SAYS
THE NEW MISSOURI LAW MAKES IT
MORE DIFFICULT TO CATCH UNKNOWN
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00:10:14,456 --> 00:10:19,194
ASSAILANTS WHO'VE COMMITTED GUN
CRIMES.
>> Proctor: PROBABLY TWO MONTHS
AGO, WE HAD A MURDER THAT WAS
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BEING INVESTIGATED HERE IN
POPLAR BLUFF.
WHILE THAT MURDER WAS GOING ON,
ABOUT 10:00 AT NIGHT ON HIGHWAY
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00:10:25,968 --> 00:10:30,172
67, TWO VEHICLES PARKED ON THE
HIGHWAY AND DROPPED ABOUT 17
ROUNDS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
HIGHWAY.
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00:10:30,239 --> 00:10:33,175
>> O'Donnell: AND WHEN YOU SAY
"DROP," YOU MEAN "FIRE".
>> Proctor: I MEAN FIRE,
CORRECT.
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00:10:33,242 --> 00:10:39,481
>> O'Donnell: KASEY PROCTOR SAYS
HE RUSHED TO THE SCENE OF THE
GUNFIGHT, WHERE ONE PERSON HAD
BEEN SHOT IN THE STOMACH.
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00:10:39,548 --> 00:10:47,222
HE FOUND POLICE DEBATING WHETHER
THEY SHOULD SEND SOME OF THE 17
SPENT SHELL CASINGS FOUND ON THE
ROAD TO THE A.T.F. FOR ANALYSIS
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00:10:47,289 --> 00:10:53,595
AND TRACING.
>> Proctor: SO, WE HAD TO HAVE
THAT CONVERSATION AFTER WE WERE
INVESTIGATING A MURDER, WHILE
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00:10:53,662 --> 00:10:58,434
INVESTIGATING A SHOOTING ON THE
SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY AT 10:00 AT
NIGHT.
AND THE ULTIMATE CONCLUSION FROM
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00:10:58,500 --> 00:11:02,771
THE LOCAL DEPARTMENT WAS, "WE'RE
NOT GOING TO SEND THESE TO THE
A.T.F. BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING
TO RISK VIOLATING SAPA."
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00:11:02,838 --> 00:11:07,443
>> O'Donnell: BUT THAT'S THE
WHOLE POINT OF INVESTIGATIVE
WORK, IS TO PICK UP THE ROUNDS,
PUT THEM IN A DATABASE, AND SEE
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00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:13,615
IF THEY MATCH ANY OTHER CRIMES.
>> Proctor: CORRECT.
>> Sokoloff: IT SHOULD BE.
>> O'Donnell: FOR SMALLER POLICE
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00:11:13,682 --> 00:11:20,189
DEPARTMENTS, LIKE POPLAR BLUFF,
WHICH DON'T HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY
THEMSELVES, A.T.F. CAN ANALYZE
SHELL CASINGS IN ORDER TO MATCH
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00:11:20,255 --> 00:11:27,162
THEM WITH GUNS FROM OTHER
CRIMES.
POPLAR BLUFF IS JUST ONE OF
SEVERAL DEPARTMENTS WHO'VE
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00:11:27,229 --> 00:11:32,701
STOPPED SHARING EVIDENCE WITH
THE A.T.F. BALLISTICS NETWORK,
FOR FEAR OF VIOLATING MISSOURI'S
NEW GUN LAW.
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00:11:32,768 --> 00:11:36,071
>> Proctor: ABOUT TWO HOURS
LATER, THEY HAD ANOTHER
SHOOTING.
AND, WHILE THEY WERE
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00:11:36,138 --> 00:11:39,174
INVESTIGATING THAT SHOOTING,
THEY HAD ANOTHER ONE.
AND THAT WAS ALL IN THE CITY OF
POPLAR BLUFF.
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00:11:39,241 --> 00:11:43,245
>> O'Donnell: AND YOU THINK IT
COULD'VE BEEN THE SAME PEOPLE.
>> Proctor: COULD'VE BEEN, BUT
WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHO IT WAS.
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00:11:43,312 --> 00:11:50,586
>> O'Donnell: THIS PAST JULY,
THE FIRST PLAINTIFF TO TRY OUT
THE NEW LAW IN COURT WAS AN
ACCUSED DRUG DEALER WHO POLICE
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00:11:50,652 --> 00:11:57,192
SAY WAS BUSTED WITH 58 GRAMS OF
COCAINE AND FOUR FIREARMS.
HE PLED NOT GUILTY TO THE
CHARGES, AND THEN TURNED THE LAW
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00:11:57,259 --> 00:12:03,198
ON LAW ENFORCEMENT, SUING THE
OFFICERS TO PREVENT THEM FROM
TESTIFYING AGAINST HIM IN
FEDERAL COURT.
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00:12:03,265 --> 00:12:09,204
KACEY PROCTOR VOLUNTEERED TO
REPRESENT ONE OFFICER.
THE LAWSUIT WAS DROPPED, BUT IT
SENT A MESSAGE.
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00:12:09,271 --> 00:12:16,945
>> Proctor: I COULD TELL YOU FOR
A FACT THAT TWO OF THE POLICE
OFFICERS THAT WERE SUED OVER THE
SECOND AMENDMENT PRESERVATION
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00:12:17,012 --> 00:12:21,016
ACT IN RIPLEY COUNTY TOLD ME
THAT, AS SOON AS THEY CAN
RETIRE, THEY WILL.
THEY'RE TIRED OF THIS STUFF.
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00:12:21,083 --> 00:12:24,153
I'M AFRAID THAT WE'RE GOING TO
MAKE IT SO DIFFICULT TO BE A
POLICE OFFICER IN THIS COUNTRY,
THAT NOBODY'S GOING TO WANT TO
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00:12:24,219 --> 00:12:29,625
DO IT.
( GUN FIRING )
>> O'Donnell: MISSOURI STATE
SENATOR ERIC BURLISON AND STATE
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00:12:29,691 --> 00:12:35,631
REPRESENTATIVE JERED TAYLOR CO-
SPONSORED THE SECOND AMENDMENT
PRESERVATION ACT.
THEY SAY THERE ARE PLENTY OF
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00:12:35,697 --> 00:12:43,238
MISSOURI LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICERS WHO SUPPORT THE LAW AND
ARE NOT HAVING ANY ISSUES.
THOSE HAVING PROBLEMS, THEY SAY,
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00:12:43,305 --> 00:12:47,309
DON'T YET UNDERSTAND IT, OR ARE
RECEIVING POOR ADVICE.
>> Jered Taylor: I THINK THERE'S
BAD INFORMATION.
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00:12:47,376 --> 00:12:51,180
I THINK THAT THEY'RE GETTING BAD
INFORMATION.
IF YOU ASK TEN DIFFERENT
ATTORNEYS, THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE
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00:12:51,246 --> 00:12:57,186
YOU 15 DIFFERENT ANSWERS ON ANY
NUMBER OF ISSUES.
>> O'Donnell: SOME OF THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT THAT WE SPOKE WITH
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00:12:57,252 --> 00:13:03,192
IN SOUTHEAST MISSOURI, THEY SAY
IT'S PREVENTING THEM FROM
PUTTING BAD GUYS AWAY WITH
FEDERAL HELP.
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00:13:03,258 --> 00:13:09,198
HOW DO YOU RESPOND?
>> Eric Burlison: I THINK THAT
THE DUST NEEDS TO SETTLE.
ANY BILL THAT COMES OUT,
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00:13:09,264 --> 00:13:15,304
ORIGINALLY THERE MIGHT BE
AMBIGUITY FROM UNDERSTANDING
WHAT THE INTENT OF THE BILL WAS.
OUR INTENTION IS TO MAKE CERTAIN
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00:13:15,370 --> 00:13:21,176
THAT-- THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS
NOT HINDERED IN ANY WAY.
>> O'Donnell: YOU'RE AWARE THAT
THERE ARE SEVERAL POLICE
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00:13:21,243 --> 00:13:26,415
DEPARTMENTS AND COUNTY
PROSECUTORS WHO HAVE STOPPED
WORKING WITH THE A.T.F. AND U.S.
ATTORNEYS ON GUN CRIMES
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00:13:26,481 --> 00:13:30,319
ALTOGETHER?
>> Taylor: AND THERE ARE SEVERAL
THAT ARE STILL WORKING WITH
THEM.
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00:13:30,385 --> 00:13:34,957
>> O'Donnell: WHAT ABOUT THOSE
THAT ARE NOT WORKING WITH THEM?
>> Taylor: I THINK IT'S
UNFORTUNATE, BECAUSE I DON'T
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00:13:35,023 --> 00:13:39,194
THINK THAT THIS LAW PROHIBITS
THAT.
>> O'Donnell: POPLAR BLUFF
POLICE CHIEF DANNY WHITELEY
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00:13:39,261 --> 00:13:47,202
DISAGREES.
LAST MONTH, HE JOINED FIVE OTHER
POLICE CHIEFS, SIX COUNTY
SHERIFFS AND EIGHT COUNTY
138
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:54,209
PROSECUTORS IN A LETTER TO
GOVERNOR MIKE PARSON THAT ASKED
FOR A MEETING TO DISCUSS HOW
THEY MIGHT AMEND THE LAW.
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00:13:54,276 --> 00:13:58,313
THE GOVERNOR, A FORMER COUNTY
SHERIFF HIMSELF, HAS SAID HE
MIGHT BE OPEN TO CHANGING IT.
>> Mike Parson: I THINK THAT
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00:13:58,380 --> 00:14:03,418
THERE'S THINGS OUT THERE WE CAN
CORRECT.
I THINK WE NEED TO DO A LITTLE
BETTER JOB MAKING SURE WE'RE OUT
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00:14:03,485 --> 00:14:07,389
HERE TALKING TO LAW ENFORCEMENT,
UNDERSTANDING THE EVERYDAY
ISSUES THEY'RE FACING.
>> O'Donnell: WOULD YOU BE
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00:14:07,456 --> 00:14:13,061
WILLING TO GO BACK AND SAY,
"OKAY, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE
LAW AND MAKE THE CHANGES?"
>> Taylor: I'M NOT WILLING TO--
143
00:14:13,128 --> 00:14:19,067
TO EVEN CONSIDER THAT, AT THIS
POINT.
BUT OF COURSE, I'M ALWAYS
WILLING TO WORK WITH LAW
144
00:14:19,134 --> 00:14:25,440
ENFORCEMENT AND-- AND, YOU KNOW,
BETTER UNDERSTAND THE WAY THAT
THEY OPERATE AND WHAT THEY DO.
>> O'Donnell: SO FAR, 17 STATES
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00:14:25,507 --> 00:14:31,213
HAVE LAWS ON THEIR BOOKS SIMILAR
TO THE SECOND AMENDMENT
PRESERVATION ACT, THOUGH NONE
GOES AS FAR AS MISSOURI.
146
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:38,287
HAVE YOU HEARD FROM LEGISLATORS
IN OTHER STATES WHO SAY, "WE
WANT TO DO THE SAME THING"?
>> Taylor: ABSOLUTELY.
147
00:14:38,353 --> 00:14:45,193
I'VE BEEN CONTACTED BY MULTIPLE
LEGISLATORS ACROSS THE UNITED
STATES, ASKING FOR HELP AND
ASKING FOR THE RESOURCES THAT WE
148
00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:51,199
USED IN ORDER TO PASS OUR
LEGISLATION.
>> O'Donnell: THE FUTURE OF THAT
LEGISLATION WILL BE DECIDED IN
149
00:14:51,266 --> 00:14:57,172
COURT.
ST. LOUIS' SUIT AGAINST THE
SECOND AMENDMENT PRESERVATION
ACT SHOULD GET TO MISSOURI'S
150
00:14:57,239 --> 00:15:04,346
HIGHEST COURT NEXT YEAR.
THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
HAS NOT YET DECIDED WHETHER TO
FILE ITS OWN LAWSUIT.
151
00:15:04,413 --> 00:15:09,151
THE CO-SPONSORS OF THE LAW SAY
THEY'RE READY.
DO YOU THINK THIS GOES TO THE
SUPREME COURT?
152
00:15:09,217 --> 00:15:13,388
>> Taylor: ABSOLUTELY.
>> O'Donnell: YOU DO?
>> Taylor: I DO.
>> O'Donnell: DO YOU LIKE YOUR
153
00:15:13,455 --> 00:15:22,531
CHANCES?
>> Burlison: I LOVE OUR CHANCES.
( TICKING )
154
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:31,340
>> Jon Wertheim: THE HURRICANES
KEEP COMING WITH INCREASED FORCE
AND INCREASED FREQUENCY.
EVEN BEFORE HITTING LAND,
155
00:15:31,406 --> 00:15:39,247
THEY'RE OFTEN WREAKING HAVOC.
KATRINA, SANDY, MOST RECENTLY
IDA-- NAME A TROPICAL STORM, AND
ODDS ARE GOOD IT'S CAUSED AN
156
00:15:39,314 --> 00:15:47,055
OFF-SHORE OIL SPILL.
AND THESE MESSES AREN'T EASILY
CLEANED UP.
TONIGHT, WE BRING YOU A
157
00:15:47,122 --> 00:15:52,961
DISTINCTLY LOUISIANA STORY, THE
SAGA OF THE TAYLOR ENERGY OIL
SPILL, A STORM-CAUSED
ENVIRONMENTAL CRISIS THAT'S
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00:15:53,028 --> 00:15:59,935
SULLIED THE GULF OF MEXICO SINCE
2004.
THEN, ALONG CAME AN UNLIKELY
DUO: A NO-NONSENSE COAST GUARD
159
00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:07,909
CAPTAIN WHO SAID "ENOUGH IS
ENOUGH," AND A HOMEGROWN CAJUN
ENGINEER WHO BROUGHT WITH HIM
THE POWER OF LOCAL KNOWLEDGE.
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00:16:07,976 --> 00:16:16,151
TOGETHER, THEY WOULD RESIST A
DEEP-POCKETED ENERGY COMPANY AND
HELP STANCH THE LONGEST RUNNING
OIL SPILL IN U.S. HISTORY.
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00:16:16,218 --> 00:16:21,056
HOW MANY MILES OFFSHORE ARE WE
NOW?
>> Timmy Couvillion: WE'RE ABOUT
12 MILES OFFSHORE FROM THE COAST
162
00:16:21,123 --> 00:16:26,661
OF LOUISIANA.
>> Wertheim: A SEVENTH-
GENERATION CAJUN, TIMMY
COUVILLION GREW UP ON THE
163
00:16:26,728 --> 00:16:32,000
LOUISIANA DELTA, WHERE RIVER
MINGLES WITH SEA.
EVEN AS AN ENGINEERING STUDENT,
HE MOONLIGHTED AS A FISHING
164
00:16:32,067 --> 00:16:37,339
CAPTAIN.
>> Couvillion: I'VE CAUGHT, YOU
KNOW, 150-POUND TUNAS THIS
CLOSE.
165
00:16:37,406 --> 00:16:42,244
>> Wertheim: HE SHOWED US THE
PRECISE SITE OF A GROUND-
BREAKING CONTRAPTION THAT'S
CONSUMED HIM LATELY.
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00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:46,381
WE'RE RIGHT ABOVE IT NOW, AREN'T
WE?
>> Couvillion: YES, SIR.
THE TAYLOR ENERGY PLATFORM WOULD
167
00:16:46,448 --> 00:16:51,953
BE LAYING ON ITS SIDE, JUST
BELOW US.
>> Wertheim: HIS ENGINEERING
COMPANY HAS CONCEIVED OF AND
168
00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:59,361
INSTALLED A SYSTEM TO HELP
CONTAIN A STUBBORN OIL SPILL.
IT'S DIRECTLY BELOW THIS SPOT,
NEARLY 500 FEET UNDERWATER.
169
00:16:59,428 --> 00:17:06,234
>> Couvillion: IF WE DIDN'T HAVE
G.P.S. COORDINATES, WE WOULDN'T
KNOW THAT WE HAD A FUNCTIONING
SYSTEM THAT WAS ACTIVELY
170
00:17:06,301 --> 00:17:12,073
COLLECTING 1,000 GALLONS OF OIL
A DAY.
>> Wertheim: CATCH THAT?
AN AVERAGE OF 1,000 GALLONS OF
171
00:17:12,140 --> 00:17:19,347
OIL A DAY, THAT WOULD OTHERWISE
BE CONTAMINATING THE GULF OF
MEXICO.
IT'S BEING CAPTURED BY TIMMY
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00:17:19,414 --> 00:17:27,355
COUVILLION'S SYSTEM AND
TRANSFERRED TO THESE TANKS TO BE
SOLD LATER AS RECYCLED OIL.
>> Couvillon: 100,000 GALLONS IS
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00:17:27,422 --> 00:17:35,464
A MAJOR OIL SPILL.
THIS IS SEVEN MAJOR OIL SPILLS
THAT WE'VE COLLECTED, SINCE
APRIL OF 2019.
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00:17:35,530 --> 00:17:40,202
>> Wertheim: HOW MANY YEARS YOU
BEEN DOING THIS?
>> Couvillon: TWO YEARS.
>> Wertheim: THE MOUTH OF THE
175
00:17:40,268 --> 00:17:47,776
MISSISSIPPI FORMS THE HEART OF
LOUISIANA COMMERCE.
THIS REGION IS NOURISHED BY A
MIX OF FISH, WATER, GAS AND OIL.
176
00:17:47,843 --> 00:17:55,350
BUT INCREASINGLY, BOTH THE
TERRAIN AND THE ECONOMY ARE
GETTING BEATEN UP BY MOTHER
NATURE.
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00:17:55,417 --> 00:18:03,358
IN 2004, HURRICANE IVAN
DEVASTATED THE GULF, INCLUDING
BRINGING DOWN THIS MASSIVE OIL
PLATFORM OPERATED BY TAYLOR
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00:18:03,425 --> 00:18:09,531
ENERGY.
COUVILLION MADE THIS VIDEO
SIMULATION OF WHAT LIKELY
HAPPENED.
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00:18:09,598 --> 00:18:13,935
>> Couvillion: TO SEE THE ENERGY
THAT IT TOOK TO SHEAR THE LEGS
OF THIS EIGHT-PILE PLATFORM, THE
TAYLOR ENERGY PLATFORM, IT'S
180
00:18:14,002 --> 00:18:19,941
HARD TO COMPREHEND.
>> Wertheim: THE UNDERWATER
MUDSLIDE TOPPLED THE OIL
PLATFORM, DAMAGING THE
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00:18:20,008 --> 00:18:27,349
CONNECTIONS TO AS MANY AS 28 OIL
WELLS BELOW.
TO THIS DAY, THE STRUCTURE LIES
HORIZONTALLY ON THE FLOOR OF THE
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00:18:27,415 --> 00:18:35,223
GULF.
THE SHEEN CAUSED BY THE OIL
SPILL SPREAD FOR MILES.
FOR YEARS, SHIPS TRAVELING
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00:18:35,290 --> 00:18:41,530
THROUGH WERE COATED IN THE SLICK
POOLS OF OIL THAT BUBBLED UP TO
THE SURFACE.
AND MARINE LIFE, LIKE THESE
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00:18:41,596 --> 00:18:49,371
SCHOOLS OF GIANT AMBERJACK, HAD
TO SWIM THROUGH THE MUCK.
HOW COULD THIS SPILL HAVE GONE
ON FOR 17 YEARS AND COUNTING
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00:18:49,437 --> 00:18:57,112
WITHOUT MUCH PUBLIC AWARENESS?
FOR ONE, TAYLOR ENERGY IS NOT A
FORTUNE 500 GIANT, BUT A LOCAL
COMPANY-- AND A BELOVED ONE AT
186
00:18:57,178 --> 00:19:01,383
THAT.
FOR PEOPLE NOT FROM HERE, WHO
ARE THE TAYLORS OF TAYLOR
ENERGY?
187
00:19:01,449 --> 00:19:11,359
>> Pat McShane: THIS IS A FAMILY
WHICH HAS BUILT ITS REPUTATION
AS A BENEVOLENT COMMUNITY
CORPORATE CITIZEN OF THE HIGHEST
188
00:19:11,426 --> 00:19:18,667
ORDER.
>> Wertheim: PAT McSHANE IS A
PROMINENT LOUISIANA MARITIME
LAWYER, WHOSE CLIENTS INCLUDE
189
00:19:18,733 --> 00:19:23,572
TIMMY COUVILLION.
HE SAYS THAT IN NEW ORLEANS
SOCIETY, THE TAYLORS ARE KNOWN
FOR THEIR EDUCATIONAL
190
00:19:23,638 --> 00:19:27,342
PHILANTHROPY.
>> Pat Taylor: HOW YA DOING,
MAN?
I'M PAT TAYLOR.
191
00:19:27,409 --> 00:19:31,446
NCE SEEING YOU.
HOW YA'LL BEEN?
>> Wertheim: IN 1989,
"60 MINUTES" REPORTED ON THE
192
00:19:31,513 --> 00:19:37,385
TAYLORS' GENEROSITY.
WHEN THE SPILL OCCURRED, LOCALS
ASSUMED THE TAYLORS WOULD CLEAN
IT UP.
193
00:19:37,452 --> 00:19:42,891
>> McShane: TAYLOR HAS BEEN
TASKED UNDER THE FEDERAL OIL
POLLUTION ACT WITH THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR CONTAINING
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00:19:42,958 --> 00:19:47,796
THE OIL AND COMING UP WITH A
PERMANENT SOLUTION.
AND DURING THAT TIME, THEY
WORKED HAND AND GLOVE WITH THE
195
00:19:47,862 --> 00:19:55,370
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
>> Wertheim: THE U.S. GOVERNMENT
MAKES MONEY-- BILLIONS, IN FACT-
- LEASING OFFSHORE OIL RIGHTS.
196
00:19:55,437 --> 00:20:01,376
SO, WHEN THERE IS AN OIL SPILL,
THE GOVERNMENT HAS ULTIMATE
AUTHORITY.
BUT WE WERE SURPRISED TO LEARN
197
00:20:01,443 --> 00:20:07,349
HOW MUCH THE GOVERNMENT RELIES
ON THE LEASING OIL COMPANIES
THEMSELVES TO LEAD THE RECOVERY
EFFORTS.
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00:20:07,415 --> 00:20:13,388
PEOPLE MIGHT HEAR THE STORY AND
SAY, "WAIT A SECOND, IT'S UP TO
THE OIL COMPANIES TO GIVE THE
ETIMATE HOW SEVERE THIS IS?"
199
00:20:13,455 --> 00:20:20,929
>> Kristi Luttrell: IT IS.
AND, IN GENERAL, THE INDUSTRY'S
VERY RESPONSIBLE IN REPORTING
THOSE TYPE OF AMOUNTS AND EVEN
200
00:20:20,996 --> 00:20:27,168
CLEANING UP THE-- THE SPILL AND
SECURING THE SOURCE.
>> Wertheim: CAPTAIN KRISTI
LUTTRELL, A VETERAN OF THE COAST
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00:20:27,235 --> 00:20:34,075
GUARD, WAS PLACED IN CHARGE OF
OVERSEEING THE TAYLOR ENERGY
SPILL IN 2018.
>> Luttrell: THIS IS THE BIGGEST
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00:20:34,142 --> 00:20:42,417
POLLUTION RESPONSE CASE I'LL SEE
IN MY 28-YEAR CAREER.
>> Wertheim: TAYLOR ENERGY WAS
REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW TO SET
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00:20:42,484 --> 00:20:49,391
ASIDE $666 MILLION IN A TRUST TO
FUND CLEAN-UP COSTS.
TAYLOR SAYS THAT BY 2011, IT HAD
SPENT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS TO
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00:20:49,457 --> 00:20:57,766
PLUG NINE OF THE MOST ACTIVE
WELLS AT THE SITE.
THEN, IN 2013, TAYLOR ENERGY,
ALONG WITH U.S. GOVERNMENT
205
00:20:57,832 --> 00:21:03,438
AGENCIES INCLUDING THE COAST
GUARD, ISSUED THIS REPORT
CONCLUDING THE BEST OPTION WAS
TO LEAVE THE UNDERWATER SITE
206
00:21:03,505 --> 00:21:11,346
ALONE.
IT SAID ONLY SMALL AMOUNTS OF
OIL-- "ABOUT THREE GALLONS PER
DAY"-- WERE LIKELY FLOWING, AND
207
00:21:11,413 --> 00:21:18,887
FURTHER ACTION COULD HURT THE
ENVIRONMENT.
FOR YEARS, THEY WERE CLAIMING
THIS WAS ABOUT THREE GALLONS A
208
00:21:18,953 --> 00:21:23,858
DAY, NOT 1,000.
THREE GALLONS A DAY THAT WAS
SEEPING OUT.
>> Luttrell: I HONESTLY COULD
209
00:21:23,925 --> 00:21:30,465
NOT SPEAK FOR THEIR OPINIONS ON
THEIR SCIENCE.
>> Wertheim: BUT MEASURING OIL
SPILLS DEEP UNDERWATER IS
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00:21:30,532 --> 00:21:35,503
DIFFICULT, AND ESTIMATES VARIED
WILDLY, DEPENDING ON THE SOURCE
OF THE DATA.
CAPTAIN LUTTRELL SAYS THAT BY
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00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:43,278
2018, THE COAST GUARD HAD ACCESS
TO IMPROVED SONAR, REVEALING
THAT OIL WAS STILL ESCAPING-- A
LOT OF IT.
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00:21:43,344 --> 00:21:47,348
>> Luttrell: WE BELIEVE THERE'S
MULTIPLE WELLS STILL LEAKING
INSIDE THE EROSIONAL PIT AT THE
SITE.
213
00:21:47,415 --> 00:21:51,219
>> Wertheim: AT WHAT POINT DID
YOU SAY, "YOU KNOW WHAT?
ENOUGH.
THE COAST GUARD'S GOING TO TAKE
214
00:21:51,286 --> 00:21:58,927
OVER THIS CONTAINMENT"?
>> Luttrell: I CAME TO THAT
DECISION SOMETIME IN LATE SUMMER
OF 2018.
215
00:21:58,993 --> 00:22:04,799
IT DIDN'T TAKE ME LONG TO
REALIZE THAT WE WERE GOING TO GO
AHEAD AND HAVE TO FEDERALIZE
THIS CASE, WHEN I DIDN'T FEEL
216
00:22:04,866 --> 00:22:10,004
LIKE I WAS GETTING A TIMELY
RESPONSE OUT OF THE RESPONSIBLE
PARTY.
>> Wertheim: LUTTRELL SAYS SHE
217
00:22:10,071 --> 00:22:15,343
WAS CONCERNED THAT TAYLOR ENERGY
WAS, IN HER WORDS, "NOT ACTING
IN A TIMELY MANNER," AND SHE
TOOK OVER CONTROL OF THE
218
00:22:15,410 --> 00:22:22,050
CONTAINMENT, PUTTING OUT A CALL
FOR BIDS FOR A TEMPORARY
SOLUTION TO COLLECT ANY FLOWING
OIL.
219
00:22:22,117 --> 00:22:27,455
TIMMY COUVILLION'S LOUISIANA
FIRM COMPETED WITH OTHER
ENGINEERING CONTRACTORS TO COME
UP WITH AN INVENTION.
220
00:22:27,522 --> 00:22:33,895
>> Jack Couch: I'VE WORKED WITH
TIMMY AT OCEANEERING.
>> Wertheim: COUVILLION SUMMONED
TWO FRIENDS, FORMER COLLEAGUES.
221
00:22:33,962 --> 00:22:39,367
THEY BEGAN WITH A BASIC CONCEPT:
OIL AND WATER DON'T MIX.
>> Couch: I HAD INVENTED THE
UNDERWATER SEPARATOR.
222
00:22:39,434 --> 00:22:47,342
>> Wertheim: JACK COUCH IS A
LONGTIME EXPERT DEEP SEA DIVER;
DR. KEVIN KENNELLEY, A.K.A
DOCTOR K, IS AN ENGINEER.
223
00:22:47,408 --> 00:22:53,348
THE "THREE AMIGOS," THEY CALLED
THEMSELVES, HUNKERED DOWN IN
TIMMY COUVILLION'S MAN CAVE IN
BELLE CHASSE, LOUISIANA, TAKING
224
00:22:53,414 --> 00:22:58,553
BREAKS ONLY TO SHOOT POOL AND
EAT PO' BOYS.
TAKE ME BACK TO WHEN YOU GUYS
WERE USING THIS ROOM TO SOLVE
225
00:22:58,620 --> 00:23:02,991
PROBLEMS.
>> Doctor K: WELL, I REMEMBER
JACK SAT THERE, TIMMY SAT THERE,
AND I SAT OVER HERE.
226
00:23:03,057 --> 00:23:08,062
WE EACH HAD A DESK.
>> Wertheim: IT TOOK THE THREE
AMIGOS FIVE DAYS BEFORE, AS THEY
PUT IT, THEY WENT "FROM CAN'T TO
227
00:23:08,129 --> 00:23:12,867
CAN."
>> Couch: THERE WAS EVEN NO
MOVING PARTS.
THERE'S NO PUMPS, NO NOTHING.
228
00:23:12,934 --> 00:23:17,739
WE JUST USED THE NATURAL
BUOYANCY OF THE FLUIDS AND
STUFF.
>> Couvillon: I LOOKED AT THEM,
229
00:23:17,806 --> 00:23:22,610
AND I'M LIKE, "IS THERE ANY
REASON WHY THIS WON'T WORK?"
( LAUGHS )
>> Wertheim: THEY EVEN TESTED
230
00:23:22,677 --> 00:23:29,851
THEIR INVENTION IN THE BACKYARD
POOL.
>> Doctor K: WE DID EVERYTHING,
FROM TEST IT IN A SWIMMING POOL
231
00:23:29,918 --> 00:23:35,390
TO FULL-SCALE TESTS IN-- IN
VERY, VERY LARGE TANKS, TO MAKE
SURE THAT IT WORKED.
>> Wertheim: AGAINST STEEP
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00:23:35,456 --> 00:23:41,563
COMPETITION, THEIR PROPOSAL WAS
CHOSEN BY THE COAST GUARD IN
LATE 2018.
THE BLUE BOX WOULD ACT LIKE A
233
00:23:41,629 --> 00:23:47,836
CAP, WHICH COLLECTS THE LEAKING
OIL AND GAS.
THAT WOULD GET SEPARATED IN THE
WHITE TANK, AND THEN THE OIL
234
00:23:47,902 --> 00:23:54,876
WOULD GO TO STORAGE IN THE
YELLOW TUBES.
FROM THERE, IT WOULD BE PUMPED
OFF TO A SHIP EACH MONTH.
235
00:23:54,943 --> 00:23:59,814
BUT COUVILLION HAD TO MAKE THE
CONCEPT A REALITY, AND THE CLOCK
WAS TICKING.
>> Couvillion: IT WAS ABOUT
236
00:23:59,881 --> 00:24:07,188
DECEMBER-- DECEMBER 15.
WE WERE ONSITE WITH OUR R.O.V.s,
WHICH IS A REMOTELY OPERATED
VEHICLE.
237
00:24:07,255 --> 00:24:13,394
SO, AN UNDERWATER ROBOT.
>> Wertheim: COUVILLION'S TEAM
DROPPED THE R.O.V. TO GET
DETAILED SONAR IMAGES OF WHAT
238
00:24:13,461 --> 00:24:19,868
WAS GOING ON 470 FEET DOWN.
HE SAYS HE WAS SHOCKED BY WHAT
HE SAW IN HIS IMAGES.
THE RED REPRESENTS PLUMES OF OIL
239
00:24:19,934 --> 00:24:25,473
AND GAS SPEWING IN FRONT OF THE
DOWNED PLATFORM.
THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING AFTER
YOU HAVE THE CONTRACT.
240
00:24:25,540 --> 00:24:34,949
>> Couvillion: THAT'S RIGHT.
MY FIRST REACTION WAS, "THIS
ISN'T MICRON DROPLETS THAT'S
COMING OUT FROM THE SEA FLOOR.
241
00:24:35,016 --> 00:24:41,356
THIS IS AN UNDERWATER VOLCANO."
>> Wertheim: COUVILLION'S CREW
PUT MORE THAN 200 TONS OF STEEL
PIECES TOGETHER USING ENORMOUS
242
00:24:41,422 --> 00:24:49,230
CRANES, TEAMS OF EXPERT SEA
DIVERS, AND MULTIPLE REMOTE
OPERATED VEHICLES.
TO GET A SENSE OF PROPORTION,
243
00:24:49,297 --> 00:24:55,370
NOTE THE SIZE OF THE MEN
COMPARED TO THE EQUIPMENT.
>> Luttrell: I DID NOT SLEEP
VERY WELL THOSE NIGHTS THAT I
244
00:24:55,436 --> 00:25:01,376
KNEW THE DIVERS WERE OUT AND
ABOUT ON THE SEAFLOOR IN ALMOST
500 FEET OF WATER.
AND I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE
245
00:25:01,442 --> 00:25:09,083
CRANE FAILING AND THAT MUCH
WEIGHT DROPPING.
>> Wertheim: SPRING OF 2019
BROUGHT THE MOMENT OF TRUTH.
246
00:25:09,150 --> 00:25:15,356
THIS WASN'T TESTING A SIMULATION
IN A BACKYARD POOL.
THIS WAS THE REAL THING, A
$43 MILLION SYSTEM IN THE GULF.
247
00:25:15,423 --> 00:25:23,364
>> Couvillion: WHEN WE OPENED UP
THE VALVES AND, LESS THAN A DAY
LATER, THE SHEEN HAD LARGELY
DISAPPEARED, WE KNEW WE HAD
248
00:25:23,431 --> 00:25:29,137
REALLY DONE SOMETHING.
IT WAS AWESOME.
>> Wertheim: A GOOD DAY FOR THE
ENVIRONMENT?
249
00:25:29,203 --> 00:25:35,376
>> Couvillion: OH, NO DOUBT.
LOOK, NOBODY WANTS OIL IN THEIR
BACKYARD, RIGHT?
WE PROVED THAT WE CAN CLEAN UP
250
00:25:35,443 --> 00:25:39,347
OUR MESS, RIGHT?
>> Wertheim: YOU SEND IT 500
FEET DOWN AND, DANG, IT'S
WORKING.
251
00:25:39,414 --> 00:25:47,255
>> Luttrell: IT WAS SIMPLE, YET
EFFECTIVE.
AND I GIVE THE ENGINEERS CREDIT
FOR COMING UP WITH THAT DESIGN.
252
00:25:47,322 --> 00:25:53,795
>> Wertheim: BUT LIKE THE MUDDY
MISSISSIPPI ITSELF, THIS TALE
HAS NO CLEAR ENDPOINT.
TAYLOR ENERGY HEADED STRAIGHT TO
253
00:25:53,861 --> 00:25:59,200
OURT.
IN TOTAL, IT'S FILED MORE THAN
TEN SEPARATE SUITS IN
CONJUNCTION WITH THE OIL SPILL,
254
00:25:59,267 --> 00:26:04,906
INCLUDING ONE AGAINST
COUVILLION.
THE CLAIM: HE WAS TRESPASSING,
AND WAS NEGLIGENT.
255
00:26:04,973 --> 00:26:10,311
TAYLOR'S LAWYER ALSO TOLD THE
COURT:
>> WE VERY MUCH DISPUTE THAT
THESE ACTIVITIES NEED TO BE
256
00:26:10,378 --> 00:26:15,350
GOING ON OUT THERE AT THIS POINT
IN TIME, OR THAT THIS IS EVEN
TAYLOR ENERGY OIL OUT THERE AT
THIS POINT IN TIME.
257
00:26:15,416 --> 00:26:22,256
>> Wertheirm: IN RESPONSE,
COUVILLION'S MARITIME LAWYER,
PAT McSHANE, CHARACTERIZED
TAYLOR'S ALLEGATIONS AS
258
00:26:22,323 --> 00:26:27,662
"PERNICIOUS."
AND HE POINTED US TO A WEALTH OF
EVIDENCE INDICATING THAT THE OIL
WAS INDEED TAYLOR'S.
259
00:26:27,729 --> 00:26:35,370
>> McShane: THE NATIONAL OCEANIC
ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION, THE
UNITED STATES COAST GUARD, HAVE
TAKEN ALL MANNER OF VISUAL
260
00:26:35,436 --> 00:26:41,876
EVIDENCE OF THE PLUMES COMING
OUT OF THE SEABED RIGHT AT THE
PLATFORM.
WHEN YOU SAY "THAT'S NOT OUR
261
00:26:41,943 --> 00:26:47,515
OIL" AGAINST THIS OVERWHELMING
EVIDENCE, YOU'RE PLAYING SOME
DIFFERENT KIND OF GAME.
>> Wertheim: COUVILLION, A
262
00:26:47,582 --> 00:26:54,255
FORMER LOUISIANA STATE WRESTLING
CHAMPION, SAYS HE'S NOT BACKING
DOWN FROM THE FIGHT.
YOU'RE WORKING TO FIX A PROBLEM
263
00:26:54,322 --> 00:26:59,360
THAT AN OIL COMPANY WAS
RESPONSIBLE FOR, AND NOW THEY'RE
SUING YOU?
>> Couvillion: KIND OF CRAZY,
264
00:26:59,427 --> 00:27:06,934
ISN'T IT?
IT'S INTIMIDATION BY LITIGATION.
>> Wertheim: TAYLOR ENERGY ALSO
FILED LEGAL ACTION AGAINST
265
00:27:07,001 --> 00:27:11,372
CAPTAIN KRISTI LUTTRELL, ARGUING
THAT SHE OVERSTEPPED HER COAST
GUARD AUTHORITY.
YOU'VE BEEN NAMED PERSONALLY.
266
00:27:11,439 --> 00:27:16,677
HOW DO YOU PERCEIVE THIS
SITUATION?
>> Luttrell: AS THE FEDERAL
ON-SCENE COORDINATOR, I USED MY
267
00:27:16,744 --> 00:27:23,351
AUTHORITY TO DO THE RIGHT THING
AND TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT.
>> Wertheim: PHYLLIS TAYLOR,
C.E.O. OF TAYLOR ENERGY,
268
00:27:23,418 --> 00:27:30,224
DECLINED OUR INTERVIEW REQUEST.
THE COMPANY SAID IN A STATEMENT
THAT IT, "HAS RETAINED AND
RELIED UPON THE WORLD'S FOREMOST
269
00:27:30,291 --> 00:27:37,365
EXPERTS TO STUDY AND THEN
RECOMMEND A PLAN OF ACTION.
WE CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR A
RESPONSE DRIVEN BY SCIENCE."
270
00:27:37,432 --> 00:27:45,740
TAYLOR LOST ITS CASE AGAINST
COUVILLION AND AN ACTION TO
RECOVER THE $432 MILLION STILL
LEFT IN THAT CLEAN-UP TRUST.
271
00:27:45,807 --> 00:27:50,878
"60 MINUTES" HAS LEARNED THAT
TAYLOR IS NOW IN MEDIATION WITH
THE GOVERNMENT TO CONCLUDE ALL
THE OUTSTANDING LITIGATION AT
272
00:27:50,945 --> 00:27:59,353
ONCE.
ASKED WHY HE THINKS TAYLOR
RESISTED SO INTENSELY, TIMMY
COUVILLION DOESN'T HESITATE.
273
00:27:59,420 --> 00:28:07,161
>> Couvillion: THAT'S THE $432
MILLION QUESTION, YOU KNOW.
IN THIS CASE, IT SEEMS LIKE IF
YOU FOLLOW THE MONEY, YOU'D HAVE
274
00:28:07,228 --> 00:28:10,364
A BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING YOUR
ANSWER.
>> Wertheim: WHAT WOULD YOU SAY
TO PHYLLIS TAYLOR, IF SHE WERE
275
00:28:10,431 --> 00:28:13,768
SITTING RIGHT HERE?
>> Couvillion: I'D JUST WANT TO
KNOW, WHY?
WHY ARE WE AT THIS POINT?
276
00:28:13,835 --> 00:28:23,344
SOMEONE THAT HAS GIVEN SO MUCH
TO OUR STATE-- WHY WOULD YOU
CONTINUE TO ALLOW THIS OIL SPILL
TO HAPPEN IN OUR GULF WATERS?
277
00:28:23,411 --> 00:28:29,984
>> Wertheim: THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT SAYS THAT SOME OF THE
OIL WELLS BURIED IN THE MUD
STILL NEED TO BE SEALED
278
00:28:30,051 --> 00:28:35,656
PERMANENTLY.
MEANWHILE, COUVILLION'S SYSTEM
PLUGS AWAY, SO TO SPEAK.
AS OF THIS PAST WEEK, IT'S
279
00:28:35,723 --> 00:28:44,432
CAPTURED MORE THAN 800,000
GALLONS OF SPILLED OIL.
( TICKING )
280
00:28:49,170 --> 00:29:00,114
( TICKING )
>> Scott Pelley: IN 1904, 180
AMERICANS WERE TRAPPED BY FIRE
IN A PENNSYLVANIA COAL MINE.
281
00:29:00,181 --> 00:29:09,023
TWO HEROES WENT IN TO SAVE THEM,
BUT THE RESCUERS AND ALL BUT ONE
OF THE MINERS PERISHED.
STILL, THAT ACT OF HEROISM
282
00:29:09,090 --> 00:29:15,129
TOUCHED ONE OF THE RICHEST
AMERICANS OF ALL TIME-- A MAN
WHOSE STEEL MILLS WERE FIRED BY
COAL.
283
00:29:15,196 --> 00:29:25,106
ANDREW CARNEGIE DONATED MORE
THAN $100 MILLION IN TODAY'S
MONEY TO RECOGNIZE HEROES IN THE
U.S. AND CANADA.
284
00:29:25,173 --> 00:29:33,080
A GOOD DEAL HAS CHANGED IN 117
YEARS.
THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN AWARDED THE
CARNEGIE HERO MEDAL, AND
285
00:29:33,147 --> 00:29:39,153
ADVANCES IN NEUROSCIENCE ARE
REVEALING WHY SOME OF US MAY BE
HEROIC.
WE'LL GET TO THE SCIENCE.
286
00:29:39,220 --> 00:29:48,329
BUT FIRST, MEET SOME OF THE
CARNEGIE HEROES, INCLUDING
TERRYANN THOMAS.
>> Terryann Thomas: I REMEMBER
287
00:29:48,396 --> 00:29:55,336
THINKING JUST ALMOST INSTANTLY,
"I AM NOT GOING LET SOMEBODY
DIE."
>> Pelley: TERRYANN THOMAS WAS A
288
00:29:55,403 --> 00:30:03,144
CIVILIAN OVERSEEING CONFISCATED
PROPERTY AT THE HEADQUARTERS OF
THE TOPEKA POLICE DEPARTMENT.
IN 2015, AN AGITATED MAN CAME
289
00:30:03,211 --> 00:30:12,220
INTO THE BASEMENT PROPERTY ROOM
TO DEMAND HIS BICYCLE.
THOMAS TURNED TO FIND IT.
>> Thomas: AS SOON AS I TURNED
290
00:30:12,286 --> 00:30:19,694
AROUND AND STARTED TO WALK OFF,
I HEARD A SCREAM.
>> Pelley: THE SCREAM CAME FROM
OFFICER TAMMY WALTER.
291
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:27,134
FOR REASONS WE DON'T KNOW, SHE'D
BEEN ATTACKED BY THE MAN IN THE
PROPERTY ROOM WAITING AREA.
THOMAS HIT A PANIC ALARM AND
292
00:30:27,201 --> 00:30:37,078
CHARGED OUT OF HER LOCKED ROOM.
>> Thomas: AND SO, AS I RAN OUT
THERE, I SAW THERE WAS BLOOD ON
THE WALL, AND SHE WAS DOWN.
293
00:30:37,144 --> 00:30:45,086
AND SHE WAS NOT MOVING.
AND I WENT OVER THERE, AND I
PULLED HIM OFF OF HER.
HE LOOKED AT ME, AND HE PUNCHED
294
00:30:45,152 --> 00:30:53,094
ME IN THE FACE.
HE TURNED AROUND, AND HE STARTED
BACK ON HER.
HE'S KICKING HER WHILE SHE'S ON
295
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:59,834
THE GROUND, AND CONSTANTLY
PUNCHING HER, SO I WENT AND
GRABBED HIM AGAIN, AND I PULLED
HIM OFF.
296
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:06,540
>> Pelley: HELP WAS SLOW IN
COMING.
IT SEEMS NO ONE HAD TRIGGERED
THE PANIC ALARM BEFORE, SO THE
297
00:31:06,607 --> 00:31:13,547
COPS UPSTAIRS WEREN'T SURE WHAT
IT MEANT.
>> Thomas: HE GRABBED SOMETHING
OFF HER GUN BELT, AND I THOUGHT,
298
00:31:13,614 --> 00:31:21,188
"OKAY, HE HAS HER GUN.
THIS WHOLE THING HAS JUST
CHANGED."
HE HIT THE ELEVATOR BUTTON, AND
299
00:31:21,255 --> 00:31:28,763
HE LOOKED AT ME, AND HE SAID,
"YOU'RE COMING WITH ME."
>> Pelley: LATER, IT TURNED OUT
IT WAS THE OFFICER'S RADIO THE
300
00:31:28,829 --> 00:31:34,502
MAN HAD, NOT HER GUN.
BUT THOMAS DIDN'T KNOW THAT IN
THE FIGHT.
WHAT HAPPENED THEN?
301
00:31:34,568 --> 00:31:42,677
>> Thomas: AND SO, I PUT MY FOOT
IN THE DOOR.
IT OPENED UP.
AND WITH EVERYTHING I HAD, I
302
00:31:42,743 --> 00:31:51,152
GRABBED HIM, AND I PULLED HIM
OUT OF THE ELEVATOR.
AND JUST AS SOON AS WE GOT OUT,
I RAN TO THE DOOR.
303
00:31:51,218 --> 00:32:00,895
I OPENED IT, AND I JUST STARTED
SCREAMING.
AND THAT'S WHEN ALL THE OFFICERS
CAME IN AND TOOK HIM DOWN.
304
00:32:00,961 --> 00:32:07,968
>> Pelley: A TOPEKA COP REPORTED
THAT STORY TO THE PITTSBURGH
HEADQUARTERS OF THE CARNEGIE
HERO FUND COMMISSION.
305
00:32:08,035 --> 00:32:12,940
ERIC ZAHREN IS PRESIDENT OF THE
COMMISSION.
HE'S A FORMER SECRET SERVICE
AGENT.
306
00:32:13,007 --> 00:32:19,146
>> Eric Zahren: WELL, WE LOOK AT
UP TO 1,000 CASES A YEAR, AND WE
AWARD ABOUT JUST A LITTLE OVER
10% OF THAT.
307
00:32:19,213 --> 00:32:23,517
SO, IN RECENT YEARS, THAT
EQUATES TO ABOUT 80 CASES A
YEAR.
>> Pelley: HOW DO YOU DEFINE
308
00:32:23,584 --> 00:32:29,090
"HERO"?
>> ZAHREN: AND WE DEFINE IT AS--
AT LEAST IN TERMS OF OUR MEDAL-
AWARDING REQUIREMENT-- AS A MAN
309
00:32:29,156 --> 00:32:36,130
OR A WOMAN THAT WILLINGLY AND
KNOWINGLY RISKS THEIR LIFE TO AN
EXTRAORDINARY DEGREE TO SAVE OR
ATTEMPT TO SAVE THE LIFE OF
310
00:32:36,197 --> 00:32:39,233
ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.
>> Pelley: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
THINGS THAT YOUR INVESTIGATORS
GO THROUGH WHEN THEY'RE
311
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:45,539
INVESTIGATING A CASE?
>> Zahren: WE WRITE TO OR
CONTACT POLICE DEPARTMENTS, FIRE
DEPARTMENTS, THE VICTIM IN THE
312
00:32:45,606 --> 00:32:52,113
CASE WHO WAS THE RESCUED PARTY,
AND OTHER EYEWITNESSES TO THE
ACT, AND WE START TO BUILD AN
UNDERSTANDING OF EACH CASE.
313
00:32:52,179 --> 00:33:01,122
>> Pelley: AND THIS IS THE
MEDAL.
TE CARNEGIE MEDAL, MOLDED IN
BRONZE, COMES WITH $5,500, AND
314
00:33:01,188 --> 00:33:07,061
OTHER FINANCIAL SUPPORT.
>> Zahren: WE ALSO PAY FOR
FUNERAL COSTS FULLY FOR A HERO
THAT IS KILLED IN THE ACT.
315
00:33:07,128 --> 00:33:12,967
WE PAY ANY MEDICAL COSTS FOR ANY
INJURY THAT THEY INCUR, TO
INCLUDE PSYCHOLOGICAL AFTER-
EFFECTS, P.T.S.D.
316
00:33:13,033 --> 00:33:20,007
WE DON'T PRESENT A MEDAL AND
WALK AWAY.
WE STAY THERE, AND WE STAY THERE
FOR THE HERO'S LIFETIME AND
317
00:33:20,074 --> 00:33:25,312
SOMETIMES FAR BEYOND.
I MEAN, WE WERE RECENTLY LOOKING
AT A CASE THAT, YOU KNOW, A
GENTLEMAN WAS KILLED IN HIS
318
00:33:25,379 --> 00:33:31,819
HEROIC ACT, AND WE SUPPORTED HIS
WIFE AND THEN ONE OF HIS
DAUGHTERS FOR A TOTAL OF 72
YEARS UNTIL HIS DAUGHTER DIED.
319
00:33:31,886 --> 00:33:39,126
>> Pete Pontzer: ON THE BEACH,
ON THAT DAY, I JUST REACTED.
>> Pelley: PETE PONTZER FIT THE
CARNEGIE DEFINITION OF HERO.
320
00:33:39,193 --> 00:33:45,099
HE WAS ON A NORTH CAROLINA BEACH
IN 2015 WHEN SOMEONE POINTED TO
A BOY SWEPT AWAY BY A RIP
CURRENT.
321
00:33:45,166 --> 00:33:53,707
PONTZER AND ANOTHER MAN SWAM
ABOUT 150 YARDS.
>> Pontzer: AND WE FOUND A YOUNG
TEENAGER, 13-YEAR-OLD BOY, AND
322
00:33:53,774 --> 00:34:01,182
WATER WAS STARTING TO WASH OVER
HIS FACE.
>> Pelley: THIS IS THE BOY AFTER
THEY SWAM HIM BACK TO SHORE.
323
00:34:01,248 --> 00:34:09,190
>> Pontzer: AS WE GET TO THE
BEACH, A CHURCH YOUTH GROUP
LEADER COMES OUT AND MEETS WITH
US, AND HE SAYS, "THANK YOU.
324
00:34:09,256 --> 00:34:17,097
THERE'S ANOTHER ONE."
>> Pelley: A SECOND BOY WAS
DROWNING.
PONTZER RAN, BROKE HIS FOOT,
325
00:34:17,164 --> 00:34:25,473
IGNORED IT, AND SWAM OUT.
HE EVENTUALLY LOST SIGHT OF THE
BOY, BUT THE CHILD WAS PULLED
FROM THE WATER BY OTHERS AND
326
00:34:25,539 --> 00:34:32,980
FLOWN TO A HOSPITAL.
SO, WHY YOU?
>> Pontzer: I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT
IT.
327
00:34:33,047 --> 00:34:39,153
IT'S KIND OF LIKE, IF YOU PUT
YOUR HAND ON A HOT STOVE AND
PULL IT BACK RIGHT AWAY WITHOUT
THINKING-- THAT'S KIND OF WHAT
328
00:34:39,220 --> 00:34:47,394
IT WAS LIKE FOR ME.
IT JUST NEEDED TO BE DONE.
AND I DID IT.
>> Pelley: IT WAS THE SAME
329
00:34:47,461 --> 00:34:53,100
REACTION FOR DAVID McCARTNEY,
WHEN FATE ARRIVED ON A TWO-LANE
ROAD IN INDIANA.
>> David McCartney: I WAS
330
00:34:53,167 --> 00:34:57,204
HEADING SOUTH, AND THERE WAS A
VEHICLE THAT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS
GOING A LITTLE BIT LEFT, A
LITTLE BIT RIGHT.
331
00:34:57,271 --> 00:35:01,575
THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT WENT
RIGHT, AND IT HIT A CULVERT.
>> Pelley: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
>> McCartney: YOU COULD START
332
00:35:01,642 --> 00:35:07,281
SEEING SMOKE.
IT WAS STARTING TO BELLOW OUT.
AND YOU COULD START HEARING
MISS TESTERMAN, WHO I COME TO
333
00:35:07,348 --> 00:35:12,553
FIND OUT WAS STARTING TO SCREAM
BECAUSE THE VEHICLE WAS ACTUALLY
STARTING TO CATCH ON FIRE.
>> Pelley: ELIZABETH TESTERMAN
334
00:35:12,620 --> 00:35:16,690
WAS TRAPPED.
>> McCartney: SHE'S SITTING
THERE, SCREAMING.
UNDERNEATH, THE DASH IS ON FIRE.
335
00:35:16,757 --> 00:35:21,095
THE SMOKE'S JUST GOING THROUGH
YOUR NOSE, AND YOU'RE TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT, WELL, WHAT TO DO
NOW?
336
00:35:21,161 --> 00:35:29,103
>> Pelley: McCARTNEY AND ANOTHER
MAN KICKED IN HER WINDSHIELD AND
CUT HER SEATBELT WITH A KNIFE.
>> McCartney: WE PULL HER FEET
337
00:35:29,169 --> 00:35:35,309
OUT, AND THEN WE KIND OF WIGGLE
UP TO THAT WINDSHIELD THAT WAS
KICKED OUT.
AND THEN, WE PULLED HER OVER TO
338
00:35:35,376 --> 00:35:44,351
THE GRASS AND LAID HER DOWN.
>> Pelley: A MINUTE LATER, HE
TOLD US, THE CAR EXPLODED.
THAT FEAR OF DYING IN A CAR IS
339
00:35:44,418 --> 00:35:51,158
WELL-KNOWN TO ABIGAIL MARSH.
SHE'S NOT A HERO, BUT SHE WAS
SAVED BY ONE.
AT AGE 19, SHE WAS ON AN
340
00:35:51,225 --> 00:35:59,667
INTERSTATE AT NIGHT AND SWERVED
TO MISS A DOG.
SHE WENT INTO A SPIN, WHICH LEFT
HER FACING LANES OF HIGH-SPEED
341
00:35:59,733 --> 00:36:06,740
TRAFFIC IN A CAR SHE COULDN'T
RESTART.
>> Marsh: AND I SPENT SOME
AMOUNT OF TIME 100% CERTAIN I
342
00:36:06,807 --> 00:36:12,813
WAS ABOUT TO DIE.
I MEAN, I WAS, SNAP, YOU KNOW.
ANY ONE OF THESE CARS HADN'T
SWERVED IN TIME, AND I
343
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:18,586
DEFINITELY WOULD'VE BEEN DEAD.
>> Pelley: WHAT HAPPENED?
>> Marsh: I HEAR A RAP ON THE
PASSENGER-SIDE WINDOW, AND I SEE
344
00:36:18,652 --> 00:36:23,424
A MAN'S FACE STARING INTO MY
CAR.
AND HE SAID, "YOU LOOK LIKE YOU
COULD USE SOME HELP."
345
00:36:23,490 --> 00:36:31,298
>> Pelley: THE STRANGER GOT HER
CAR STARTED AND DROVE HER TO
SAFETY.
HIS ACT OF HEROISM LED HER TO
346
00:36:31,365 --> 00:36:41,108
BECOME DR. ABIGAIL MARSH, A
NEUROSCIENTIST WHO STUDIES WHAT
GETS INTO THE HEADS OF HEROES.
AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY, SHE
347
00:36:41,175 --> 00:36:48,449
HAS PUBLISHED STUDIES ON THE
BRAINS OF TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE--
PSYCHOPATHS, WHO HAVE NO
COMPASSION FOR OTHERS, AND
348
00:36:48,515 --> 00:36:56,690
PEOPLE WHO HAVE SO MUCH
COMPASSION THAT THEY DONATED A
KIDNEY TO A STRANGER.
SHE FOUND A STRIKING DIFFERENCE
349
00:36:56,757 --> 00:37:03,163
IN A PAIR OF TINY STRUCTURES
NEAR THE BOTTOM OF THE BRAIN
CALLED THE AMYGDALAE.
THEY SUBCONSCIOUSLY RECOGNIZE
350
00:37:03,230 --> 00:37:10,771
DANGER, AND REACT FASTER THAN
CONSCIOUS THOUGHT.
>> Marsh: ONE OF THE BIG THINGS
THAT WE KNOW THEY DO IS, THEY'RE
351
00:37:10,838 --> 00:37:16,844
RESPONSIBLE FOR GENERATING THE
EXPERIENCE OF FEAR.
WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THAT IS
THAT, NOT ONLY IS THE AMYGDALA
352
00:37:16,910 --> 00:37:23,884
ESSENTIAL FOR GIVING YOU THE
EXPERIENCE OF FEAR, IT SEEMS TO
ALLOW YOU TO EMPATHIZE WITH
OTHER PEOPLE'S FEAR.
353
00:37:23,951 --> 00:37:28,555
>> Pelley: AS HER SUBJECTS WERE
SCANNED, MARSH SHOWED THEM
EMOTIONAL FACES.
>> Marsh: AND WHEREAS PEOPLE WHO
354
00:37:28,622 --> 00:37:34,828
ARE PSYCHOPATHIC SHOW VERY
MINIMAL RESPONSES IN THE
AMYGDALA WHEN THEY SEE A
FRIGHTENED FACE, PEOPLE WHO HAVE
355
00:37:34,895 --> 00:37:41,101
GIVEN KIDNEYS TO STRANGERS HAVE
AN EXAGGERATED RESPONSE IN THE
AMYGDALA, WHICH WE THINK MEANS
THAT THEY ARE MORE SENSITIVE
356
00:37:41,168 --> 00:37:47,274
THAN MOST PEOPLE TO OTHER'S
DISTRESS, BETTER AT INTERPRETING
WHEN OTHER PEOPLE ARE IN
DISTRESS, MORE LIKELY TO PICK UP
357
00:37:47,341 --> 00:37:51,478
ON IT.
>> Pelley: PERHAPS LIKE THE MAN
WHO SAVED HER ON THE FREEWAY.
NO TELLING HOW MANY PSYCHOPATHS
358
00:37:51,545 --> 00:37:57,184
DROVE PAST YOU THAT NIGHT.
( LAUGHTER )
>> Marsh: JUST TRY TO RELAX AND
STAY AS STILL AS POSSIBLE DURING
359
00:37:57,251 --> 00:38:05,092
THE SCAN.
>> Pelley: WE WONDERED WHETHER
OUR CARNEGIE HEROES WERE BORN
HEROIC.
360
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:16,203
WAS THERE A DIFFERENCE IN THEIR
BRAINS?
ALL THREE VOLUNTEERED FOR
6DR. MARSH'S SCANS.
361
00:38:16,270 --> 00:38:23,343
>> Marsh: TO MY-- I'M NOT GOING
TO LIE, IT WAS-- I WAS REALLY
PLEASED AND GRATIFIED BY WHAT WE
FOUND IN THE HEROIC RESCUERS,
362
00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:29,083
WHICH IS THAT, JUST LIKE THE
ALTRUISTIC KIDNEY DONORS, THEIR
AMYGDALAS WERE LARGER THAN
AVERAGE AND SIGNIFICANTLY MORE
363
00:38:29,149 --> 00:38:36,156
RESPONSIVE TO THE SIGHT OF
SOMEBODY ELSE IN DISTRESS.
WHICH MAKES SO MUCH SENSE.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE
364
00:38:36,223 --> 00:38:41,095
PEOPLE WHO, WHEN THEY SAW
SOMEBODY TERRIFIED BECAUSE THEY
THOUGHT THEY WERE ABOUT TO DIE,
THEY DIDN'T JUST SIT THERE.
365
00:38:41,161 --> 00:38:47,534
>> Pelley: YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE
ALL TOLD US THAT THEY SPRANG
INTO ACTION, AS YOU SAY, WITHOUT
THINKING.
366
00:38:47,601 --> 00:38:50,504
>> McCartney: YOU DON'T THINK;
YOU JUST-- YOU'RE STRICTLY
ACTING.
>> Pontzer: I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT
367
00:38:50,571 --> 00:38:55,909
IT.
>> Thomas: I DIDN'T EVEN THINK
ABOUT IT.
>> Marsh: IT REALLY MAKES SENSE,
368
00:38:55,976 --> 00:39:01,181
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HOW ANCIENT
AND DEEP IN OUR BRAIN STRUCTURES
LIKE THE AMYGDALA ARE.
AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO SAY THAT
369
00:39:01,248 --> 00:39:07,187
THE AMYGDALA IS WHERE ALTRUISM
IS IN THE BRAIN.
IT'S ONE LINK IN A VERY LONG
CHAIN OF EVENTS THAT'S HAPPENING
370
00:39:07,254 --> 00:39:13,193
THAT TAKES US FROM SEEING THAT
SOMEBODY'S IN DANGER TO ACTUALLY
ACTING TO HELP THEM.
BUT WE KNOW THAT IT'S DEFINITELY
371
00:39:13,260 --> 00:39:21,101
AN ESSENTIAL LINK IN THAT CHAIN.
WHETHER YOU ARE A MOUSE OR A RAT
OR A DOG OR A HUMAN, IT'S
PERFORMING THE SAME FUNCTIONS AT
372
00:39:21,168 --> 00:39:27,141
A REALLY DEEP, FAST,
SUBCONSCIOUS LEVEL.
>> Pelley: IF THE ACT OF HEROISM
IS A SPRINT, THE CONSEQUENCES
373
00:39:27,207 --> 00:39:33,247
ARE A MARATHON.
FOR DAVID McCARTNEY, IT WAS FOR
THE BETTER.
HE'S THE FIRST TO ADMIT HE
374
00:39:33,313 --> 00:39:41,088
WASN'T A GOOD MAN.
IN THE PAST, HE'D PLEADED GUILTY
TO BATTERY.
BUT HE PROMISED THE WOMAN HE
375
00:39:41,155 --> 00:39:48,796
PULLED FROM THE BURNING CAR THAT
HE WOULD DO GOOD, AND, IN 2019,
HE DONATED A KIDNEY.
WHO DID THE KIDNEY GO TO?
376
00:39:48,862 --> 00:39:54,968
>> McCartney: I HAVE NO CLUE.
>> Pelley: ON THE OTHER HAND,
FOR TERRYANN THOMAS, HEROISM HAS
BEEN TROUBLING.
377
00:39:55,035 --> 00:40:01,074
SHE WASN'T ABLE TO GO BACK TO
WORK IN THE POLICE PROPERTY
ROOM.
>> Thomas: I HAD A HARD TIME.
378
00:40:01,141 --> 00:40:09,082
I STILL HAVE A HARD TIME.
>> Pelley: AND IT'S BEEN A HARD
TIME FOR PETE PONTZER, WHO WAS
LEFT WITH REGRET.
379
00:40:09,149 --> 00:40:15,155
THAT SECOND BOY HE COULD NOT
REACH WAS FLOWN TO A HOSPITAL,
BUT DID NOT SURVIVE.
>> Pontzer: A HERO WOULD'VE
380
00:40:15,222 --> 00:40:23,964
GOTTEN THE SECOND ONE, AS WELL.
AND THAT'S A CHALLENGE THAT I
ALWAYS LIVE WITH.
I JUST COULDN'T GET THE SECOND
381
00:40:24,031 --> 00:40:31,071
KID.
>> Pelley: HIS REGRET WAS
COUPLED WITH CURIOSITY ABOUT THE
BOY HE SAVED SIX YEARS AGO, THE
382
00:40:31,138 --> 00:40:43,450
BOY WHOSE NAME HE NEVER KNEW.
THE YOUNG MAN THAT YOU SAVED IS
NAMED SEBASTIAN PROKOP, AND WE
FOUND HIM.
383
00:40:43,517 --> 00:40:53,160
AND HE HAD SOMETHING THAT HE
WANTED TO SAY TO YOU.
SO, LET ME INTRODUCE YOU.
384
00:40:59,132 --> 00:41:03,237
>> Sebastian Prokop: I'M
SEBASTIAN PROKOP.
I'M 18.
I RECENTLY GRADUATED FROM HIGH
385
00:41:03,303 --> 00:41:09,243
SCHOOL, AND I'M WORKING TOWARD
GOING TO COLLEGE, GETTING A CAR,
ALL THAT GOOD STUFF.
THANK YOU TO THE ONE WHO PULLED
386
00:41:09,309 --> 00:41:17,150
ME OUT AND LET ME BE ABLE TO
ACHIEVE ALL THE MILESTONES THAT
I'VE GOT AND THAT I PLAN TO GET.
387
00:41:20,387 --> 00:41:27,394
>> Pontzer: THANK YOU, SCOTT.
>> Pelley: WHAT IS IT LIKE TO
SEE HIM TODAY?
>> Pontzer: IT KIND OF TAKES MY
388
00:41:27,461 --> 00:41:35,469
BREATH AWAY, SCOTT.
IT HELPS TO BRING SOME CLOSURE,
AND SOME HELP.
>> Pelley: HELP FOR HEROES HAS
389
00:41:35,535 --> 00:41:45,112
BEEN THE MISSION OF THE CARNEGIE
FUND FOR 117 YEARS.
IT HAS BESTOWED 10,000 MEDALS,
AND AWARDED $40 MILLION.
390
00:41:45,178 --> 00:41:53,086
BACK IN 1904, ANDREW CARNEGIE
SENSED WHAT SCIENCE HAS NOW
CONFIRMED.
HEROES, HE SAID, CANNOT BE
391
00:41:53,153 --> 00:42:03,230
CREATED; THEY ACT ON AN IMPULSE,
A MYSTERIOUS GIFT TO THE FEW.
( TICKING )
392
00:42:05,165 --> 00:42:18,078
>> THE PSYCHOLOGICAL COST FOR
SOME HEROES.
>> IT'S OKAY TO SAY, "LOOK, I
REALLY NEED TO TALK TO SOMEONE.
393
00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:28,789
>> Wertheim: NOW, AN UPDATE ON A
STORY WE FIRST REPORTED IN 2018.
SHARYN ALFONSI LOOKED AT HOW A
"PLASTIC PLAGUE" WAS TURNING
394
00:42:28,855 --> 00:42:35,329
OCEANS INTO VAST GARBAGE DUMPS.
A YOUNG DUTCH INVENTOR, BOYAN
SLAT, CREATED A DEVICE MEANT TO
CLEAN UP THE NOTORIOUS GREAT
395
00:42:35,395 --> 00:42:43,837
PACIFIC GARBAGE PATCH.
>> Boyan Slat: THE EVENTUAL GOAL
OF THIS CLEANUP IS TO GET TO A
90% REDUCTION BY THE YEAR 2040.
396
00:42:43,904 --> 00:42:49,242
>> Wertheim: THE COMBINATION OF
PIPE AND NYLON NETTING COLLECTED
MORE PUBLICITY THAN PLASTIC.
BUT SLAT'S ORGANIZATION, THE
397
00:42:49,309 --> 00:42:57,217
OCEAN CLEANUP, HAS DEVELOPED A
NEW DESIGN.
IN TESTS THIS SUMMER AND FALL,
IT SUCCESSFULLY COLLECTED SOME
398
00:42:57,284 --> 00:43:03,957
63,000 POUNDS OF OCEAN PLASTIC.
I'M JON WERTHEIM.
WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH
399
00:43:08,128 --> 00:43:12,265
Captioning funded by CBS
and FORD.
We go further, so you can.
Captioned by
400
00:43:12,332 --> 00:43:16,303
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