1
00:00:00,710 --> 00:00:13,856
and FORD.
We go further, so you can.
>> HOW DOES A COUNTRY GO FROM
DEMOCRACY TO DICTATORSHIP IN ONE
2
00:00:13,923 --> 00:00:21,164
GENERATION?
IT'S EASIER THAN YOU MAY
IMAGINE.
THIS IS JUAN SEBASTIAN CHAMORRO,
3
00:00:21,230 --> 00:00:27,603
A GEORGETOWN-EDUCATED ECONOMIST,
WHO WAS PLANNING TO CHALLENGE
THE DICTATOR DANIEL ORTEGA FOR
PRESIDENT OF NICARAGUA.
4
00:00:27,670 --> 00:00:34,310
>> SI ESTAN VIENDO ESTE VIDEO,
ES PORQUE HE SIDO...
>> THIS VIDEO WAS RECORDED JUST
HOURS BEFORE HE WAS VIOLENTLY
5
00:00:34,377 --> 00:00:41,117
TAKEN FROM HIS HOME BY MASKED
POLICE OFFICERS.
IN IT, HE SAYS "IF YOU'RE SEEING
THIS, I'VE BEEN CAPTURED."
6
00:00:41,184 --> 00:00:41,918
( TICKING )
7
00:00:44,554 --> 00:00:49,926
>> THIS WE'RE SAVING.
I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE...
>> WE AMERICANS SPEND 90% OF OUR
TIME INSIDE BUILDINGS.
8
00:00:49,992 --> 00:00:57,633
WELL, WE FOUND A GROUP OF YOUNG
ARCHITECTS WHO HAVE SET OUT TO
CREATE A NEW MODEL OF
ARCHITECTURE, ONE THAT IS BOTH
9
00:00:57,700 --> 00:01:03,840
BEAUTIFUL AND HEALTHY FOR THE
PEOPLE WHO BUILD AND USE THEM--
INSPIRATION THEY SAY THEY GOT IN
AFRICA AND HAVE NOW BROUGHT
10
00:01:03,906 --> 00:01:13,249
HOME.
WHAT YOU WERE DOING IN RWANDA,
YOU WERE ALSO DOING IN HAITI,
MALAWI, AND POUGHKEEPSIE?
11
00:01:13,316 --> 00:01:15,685
>> ( LAUGHS )
( TICKING )
12
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,693
>> YUVAL NOAH HARARI IS A WORLD-
RENOWNED HISTORIAN WHO HAS
LOOKED INTO THE FUTURE AND IS
MORE THAN A LITTLE CONCERNED
13
00:01:23,759 --> 00:01:33,503
ABOUT WHAT HE SEES.
>> WE WILL SOON HAVE THE POWER
TO RE-ENGINEER OUR BODIES AND
BRAINS-- WHETHER IT IS WITH
14
00:01:33,569 --> 00:01:41,844
GENETIC ENGINEERING OR BY
DIRECTLY CONNECTING BRAINS TO
COMPUTERS, OR BY CREATING
COMPLETELY NON-ORGANIC ENTITIES,
15
00:01:41,911 --> 00:01:46,215
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.
AND THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE
DEVELOPING AT BREAKNECK SPEED.
( TICKING )
16
00:01:49,185 --> 00:01:53,823
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M ANDERSON COOPER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
17
00:01:53,890 --> 00:01:59,762
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.
THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT,
ON "60 MINUTES."
18
00:01:59,829 --> 00:02:06,502
( TICKING )
19
00:02:08,738 --> 00:02:16,679
>> Sharyn Alfonsi: NEXT WEEK, A
COUNTRY WITH A LONG, COMPLICATED
HISTORY WITH THE U.S. WILL HOLD
ITS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
20
00:02:16,746 --> 00:02:22,084
ITS PRESIDENT IS SEEKING A
FOURTH CONSECUTIVE TERM, AND HAS
MADE SURE NOTHING STANDS IN HIS
WAY.
21
00:02:22,151 --> 00:02:28,658
HE'S CHANGED THE COUNTRY'S LAWS,
SILENCED THE MEDIA, AND LOCKED
UP CANDIDATES WHO PLANNED TO RUN
AGAINST HIM.
22
00:02:28,724 --> 00:02:36,198
NICARAGUA'S DANIEL ORTEGA IS NOT
THE FATIGUE-WEARING
REVOLUTIONARY THAT YOU MAY
REMEMBER.
23
00:02:36,265 --> 00:02:42,438
HE'S NOW 75, AND RARELY SEEN.
STILL, MANY NICARAGUANS FEAR HE
IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN HE'S EVER
BEEN.
24
00:02:42,505 --> 00:02:48,444
AND TONIGHT, YOU WILL HEAR FROM
TWO WOMEN WHOSE HUSBANDS WERE
PLANNING TO CHALLENGE ORTEGA FOR
THE PRESIDENCY.
25
00:02:48,511 --> 00:02:56,285
BOTH MEN WERE ARRESTED BY THE
REGIME IN JUNE, AND THEIR WIVES
HAVEN'T SEEN OR SPOKEN TO THEM
SINCE.
26
00:02:56,352 --> 00:03:01,123
NOW, THE WOMEN ARE FIGHTING TO
BRING BACK THEIR HUSBANDS, AND A
DEMOCRACY LOST.
>> Juan Sebastian Chamorro:
27
00:03:01,190 --> 00:03:08,798
SI, ESTAN VIENDO ESTE VIDEO, ES
PORQUE HE SIDO...
>> Alfonsi: "IF YOU'RE SEEING
THIS, I'VE BEEN CAPTURED."
28
00:03:08,864 --> 00:03:13,002
THOSE WERE THE CHILLING WORDS OF
JUAN SEBASTIAN CHAMORRO, HOURS
BEFORE HE WAS TAKEN FROM HIS
HOME BY MASKED POLICE OFFICERS
29
00:03:13,069 --> 00:03:18,841
IN JUNE.
>> Victoria Cardenas: EIGHT
POLICE PATROLS WERE COMING.
THERE WAS A LOT OF CARS, A LOT
30
00:03:18,908 --> 00:03:27,383
OF NOISE, A LOT OF PEOPLE
JUMPING IN OUR WALL.
>> Alfonsi: VICTORIA CARDENAS IS
JUAN SEBASTIAN CHAMORRO'S WIFE.
31
00:03:27,450 --> 00:03:32,655
CHAMORRO WAS PLANNING TO RUN FOR
PRESIDENT AGAINST DANIEL ORTEGA,
AND WAS CONSIDERED A LEADING
CANDIDATE.
32
00:03:32,722 --> 00:03:36,759
>> Chamorro: POLICIA ORTEGUISTA.
>> Alfonsi: BECAUSE OF THAT,
CARDENAS SAYS, POLICE HAD BEEN
HARASSING HIM OUTSIDE OF THEIR
33
00:03:36,826 --> 00:03:44,667
HOME FOR MONTHS.
BUT ON JUNE 8, THEY CAME IN.
>> Cardenas: HE WAS ON THE FLOOR
WITH HIS HANDS UP, SAYING, "I AM
34
00:03:44,734 --> 00:03:52,008
HERE, PLEASE DON'T DO ANYTHING
TO MY WIFE."
WE ARE UNARMED.
AND THEY JUMPED THE WALLS.
35
00:03:52,074 --> 00:04:00,449
THEY BROKE IN, AND THEY TOOK HIM
VIOLENTLY.
>> Alfonsi: CARDENAS HASN'T SEEN
OR SPOKEN TO HIM SINCE.
36
00:04:00,516 --> 00:04:08,658
JUAN SEBASTIAN CHAMORRO, A
GEORGETOWN-EDUCATED ECONOMIST,
IS PART OF A PROMINENT POLITICAL
FAMILY IN NICARAGUA.
37
00:04:08,724 --> 00:04:16,666
DAYS EARLIER, HIS COUSIN,
CRISTIANA CHAMORRO-- WHO,
COINCIDENTALLY, WAS ALSO RUNNING
FOR PRESIDENT-- WAS ABOUT TO
38
00:04:16,732 --> 00:04:24,440
HOLD A PRESS CONFERENCE OUTSIDE
HER HOME, WHEN POLICE IN RIOT
GEAR SHOWED UP.
YOU CAN SEE POLICE PUSH THE
39
00:04:24,507 --> 00:04:30,413
CROWD BACK.
CHAMORRO WAS PLACED UNDER HOUSE
ARREST.
OVER THE NEXT TWO MONTHS,
40
00:04:30,479 --> 00:04:38,354
NICARAGUA'S POLICE FORCE
DETAINED DOZENS OF CRITICS OF
THE REGIME, JOURNALISTS, AND,
ULTIMATELY, SEVEN OF THE LEADING
41
00:04:38,421 --> 00:04:43,893
CANDIDATES WHO PLANNED TO RUN
FOR PRESIDENT AGAINST ORTEGA.
>> Jose Miguel Vivanco: NOBODY
REALLY SEE HIM.
42
00:04:43,959 --> 00:04:51,400
>> Alfonsi: JOSE MIGUEL VIVANCO
IS A DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RIGHTS
WATCH, A NON-PROFIT ADVOCACY
GROUP THAT'S BEEN REPORTING FROM
43
00:04:51,467 --> 00:04:56,205
INSIDE NICARAGUA FOR DECADES.
A LOT OF DICTATORS WILL AT LEAST
GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS OF
PRETENDING THERE'S A LEGITIMATE
44
00:04:56,272 --> 00:05:06,449
ELECTION.
HE'S NOT.
>> Vivanco: ORTEGA'S DELIBERATE
AND FLAGRANT CRACK-DOWN AGAINST
45
00:05:06,515 --> 00:05:16,459
PEACEFUL OPPOSITION LEADERS IS
SOMETHING WITHOUT ANY PRECEDENT
IN LATIN AMERICA SINCE THE '70s
AND '80s, WHEN MOST OF THE
46
00:05:16,525 --> 00:05:24,467
REGION WAS UNDER MILITARY
DICTATORSHIP.
>> Alfonsi: WHAT MAKES IT
UNPRECEDENTED?
47
00:05:24,533 --> 00:05:32,675
>> Vivanco: SINCE ORTEGA
CONTROLS CONGRESS, HE MANAGED TO
PASS LEGISLATION AT THE END OF
LAST YEAR THAT SANCTIONED AS
48
00:05:32,742 --> 00:05:39,882
TREASON ESSENTIALLY ANY
CRITICISM OF THE GOVERNMENT.
>> Alfonsi: SO, IF YOU CRITICIZE
THE GOVERNMENT, YOU CAN BE
49
00:05:39,949 --> 00:05:45,955
THROWN IN JAIL RIGHT NOW.
>> Vivanco: THE LANGUAGE THAT
THEY USE IS "ANY DAMAGE TO THE
SUPERIOR INTERESTS OF THE
50
00:05:46,021 --> 00:05:51,761
NATION."
>> Alfonsi: IT SOUNDS ORWELLIAN.
>> Vivanco: ORWELLIAN.
IT'S COMPLETELY ORWELLIAN.
51
00:05:51,827 --> 00:05:58,768
>> Alfonsi: IN JUNE, SECRETARY
OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN CALLED
FOR PRESIDENT ORTEGA TO
IMMEDIATELY RELEASE THE
52
00:05:58,834 --> 00:06:04,206
CANDIDATES, AND ANNOUNCED
SANCTIONS AGAINST MEMBERS OF
ORTEGA'S FAMILY AND INNER
CIRCLE.
53
00:06:04,273 --> 00:06:08,978
UNTIL A FEW YEARS AGO, IT MIGHT
HAVE LOOKED LIKE DANIEL ORTEGA
HAD MELLOWED OUT WITH AGE...
>> Ortega: CREAR LA CONDICIONES.
54
00:06:09,044 --> 00:06:16,652
>> Alfonsi: ...A FAR CRY FROM
THE REVOLUTIONARY PRESIDENT
CARTER INVITED TO THE WHITE
HOUSE IN 1979.
55
00:06:16,719 --> 00:06:24,460
ORTEGA'S SANDANISTA GUERILLAS
WERE CREDITED WITH BRINGING DOWN
THE SOMOZA FAMILY DICTATORSHIP
IN NICARAGUA.
56
00:06:24,527 --> 00:06:30,132
LATER, THEY FOUGHT OFF THE
U.S.-SPONSORED CONTRAS.
IN 1984, DANIEL ORTEGA WAS
ELECTED PRESIDENT.
57
00:06:30,199 --> 00:06:33,202
AND LATER...
>> Ortega: LA REVOLUCION
NICARAGUÜENSE.
>> Alfonsi: ...SAT DOWN WITH OUR
58
00:06:33,269 --> 00:06:40,676
MIKE WALLACE.
>> Ortega: MUY GENEROSO.
>> Alfonsi: ORTEGA WAS VOTED OUT
OF OFFICE IN 1990, BUT RETURNED
59
00:06:40,743 --> 00:06:51,620
TO POWER IN 2006, PROMISING TO
FIGHT CORRUPTION.
INSTEAD, HE TIGHTENED HIS GRIP
ON THE COUNTRY-- FIRST, CHANGING
60
00:06:51,687 --> 00:06:59,195
THE CONSTITUTION SO HE COULD
SERVE MORE TERMS, THEN MAKING
HIS WIFE, ROSARIO MURILLO, AN
ECCENTRIC, NEW-AGE POET, HIS
61
00:06:59,261 --> 00:07:04,967
VICE PRESIDENT.
THEIR CHILDREN ALSO HOLD KEY
POSITIONS IN NICARAGUA.
EIGHT OF THE COUPLE'S NINE
62
00:07:05,034 --> 00:07:12,441
CHILDREN WERE MADE PRESIDENTIAL
ADVISORS.
THEY OVERSEE A LUCRATIVE OIL
DISTRIBUTION BUSINESS, AND MOST
63
00:07:12,508 --> 00:07:20,216
OF THE COUNTRY'S TV CHANNELS.
BUT EVEN AS THE ORTEGA FAMILY'S
WEALTH HAS EXPLODED, NICARAGUA
REMAINS THE SECOND-POOREST
64
00:07:20,282 --> 00:07:28,657
COUNTRY IN THE WESTERN
HEMISPHERE.
( HORNS BLOWING )
IN 2018, NICARAGUANS REVOLTED.
65
00:07:28,724 --> 00:07:36,465
THOUSANDS TOOK TO THE STREETS TO
PROTEST ORTEGA'S PROPOSED CUTS
TO SOCIAL SECURITY FOR SENIOR
CITIZENS.
66
00:07:36,532 --> 00:07:42,438
SOON, PROTESTORS WERE CALLING
FOR ORTEGA AND HIS WIFE TO STEP
DOWN.
JOSE MIGUEL VIVANCO SAYS IT WAS
67
00:07:42,504 --> 00:07:48,444
A TURNING POINT FOR THE COUNTRY.
>> Vivanco: THAT
DEMONSTRATION...
>> VANDO, VANDO!
68
00:07:48,510 --> 00:07:54,450
( SHOTS FIRED )
>> Vivanco: ...WAS CONFRONTED
WITH BRUTAL FORCE BY ORTEGA.
( GUNFIRE )
69
00:07:54,516 --> 00:08:02,825
>> Alfonsi: THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
WERE INJURED, MORE THAN 700 WERE
ARRESTED, AND AT LEAST 350
PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY POLICE OR
70
00:08:02,892 --> 00:08:12,434
PARAMILITARY GROUPS SUPPORTED BY
THE NICARAGUAN GOVERNMENT.
>> Vivanco: ALL OF THOSE CRIMES,
ALL OF THOSE ATROCITIES
71
00:08:12,501 --> 00:08:17,406
COMMITTED BY ORTEGA AND HIS
SECURITY FORCES JUST A COUPLE OF
YEARS AGO, HE WAS ABLE TO GET
AWAY WITH THOSE CRIMES.
72
00:08:17,473 --> 00:08:27,616
>> Alfonsi: BUT VIVANCO SAYS
ORTEGA ALSO REALIZED THAT IF HE
LOST POWER, HE MIGHT BE
IMPRISONED FOR WHAT NICARAGUAN
73
00:08:27,683 --> 00:08:31,620
JOURNALISTS CALLED A "MASSACRE"
OF PROTESTORS.
>> Felix Maradiaga: VERY FEW
PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD DOUBT
74
00:08:31,687 --> 00:08:37,826
THAT NICARAGUA IS A
DICTATORSHIP.
>> Alfonsi: FELIX MARADIAGA, A
FORMER CABINET MEMBER, WAS ONE
75
00:08:37,893 --> 00:08:44,667
OF ORTEGA'S MOST OUTSPOKEN
CRITICS.
A GRADUATE OF HARVARD, HE
ADDRESSED WORLD LEADERS AT THE
76
00:08:44,733 --> 00:08:51,907
GENEVA SUMMIT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS
AND DEMOCRACY IN 2019.
>> Maradiaga: I COME HERE WITH
THE CONVICTION AND HOPE THAT THE
77
00:08:51,974 --> 00:08:59,648
WORLD WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT
THE STRUGGLE OF MY PEOPLE TO
BUILD A FREE AND OPEN SOCIETY.
>> Alfonsi: FELIX MARADIAGA WAS
78
00:08:59,715 --> 00:09:05,254
TEACHING NON-VIOLENT ACTIVISM TO
NICARAGUAN STUDENTS...
( SHOUTING )
...WHEN WITNESSES SAY HE WAS
79
00:09:05,321 --> 00:09:12,695
BEATEN BY ORTEGA'S HENCHMEN IN
2018.
( LOUD CHANTING )
AFTER THIS ATTACK, MARADIAGA WAS
80
00:09:12,761 --> 00:09:20,669
HOSPITALIZED.
FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS, HE WAS
UNDER CONSTANT SURVEILLANCE BY
THE POLICE, ACCORDING TO HIS
81
00:09:20,736 --> 00:09:27,710
WIFE, BERTA VALLE.
>> Berta Valle: THEY WATCH HIM.
THEY PUT PATROLS IN FRONT OF HIS
HOUSE.
82
00:09:27,776 --> 00:09:32,681
THE POLICE WOULD TELL HIM THAT
HE WAS NOT ABLE TO GO OUT OF THE
HOUSE.
>> NO, NO PERMITA.
83
00:09:32,748 --> 00:09:40,789
>> Valle: AND FROM DECEMBER 2020
TO FEBRUARY '21, HE WAS UNDER
HOUSE ARREST.
>> Alfonsi: SO, NO WARRANT, BUT
84
00:09:40,856 --> 00:09:45,294
HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE
HOUSE?
>> Valle: EXACTLY.
>> Alfonsi: EVEN SO, FELIX
85
00:09:45,361 --> 00:09:53,268
MARADIAGA DECIDED HE WOULD RUN
FOR PRESIDENT, ONE OF A GROUP OF
OPPOSITION CANDIDATES WHO, FOR
THE FIRST TIME, HAD DECIDED TO
86
00:09:53,335 --> 00:10:00,442
BAND TOGETHER TO TRY TO DEFEAT
DANIEL ORTEGA.
>> Valle: THEY SIGNED A DOCUMENT
SAYING THAT THEY WERE WILLING TO
87
00:10:00,509 --> 00:10:08,684
SUPPORT THE ONE THAT COULD
REPRESENT THE NICARAGUAN PEOPLE.
>> Alfonsi: BUT THE OPPOSITION
NEVER GOT THE CHANCE TO PUT
88
00:10:08,751 --> 00:10:16,658
THEIR CANDIDATE FORWARD.
MOST WERE ARRESTED OR FLED THE
COUNTRY BEFORE THEY COULD FILE
THE PAPERWORK TO OFFICIALLY PUT
89
00:10:16,725 --> 00:10:22,131
THEM ON THE BALLOT.
ON JUNE 8, FELIX MARADIAGA WAS
SUMMONED TO MEET WITH GOVERNMENT
PROSECUTORS.
90
00:10:22,197 --> 00:10:28,670
HIS FAMILY FEARED HE WOULD BE
ARRESTED DURING THE MEETING.
>> Valle: SO, HE WENT WITH A
LAWYER, A FRIEND, AND HE WAS
91
00:10:28,737 --> 00:10:32,674
INTERVIEWED FOR FOUR HOURS.
>> Alfonsi: SO, FELIX CAME OUT.
HE TALKED TO THE INDEPENDENT
PRESS.
92
00:10:32,741 --> 00:10:37,179
>> Valle: EXACTLY.
>> Maradiaga: NO TENEMOS MIEDO,
NO TENEMOS MIEDO.
>> Valle: WE WERE WATCHING THIS
93
00:10:37,246 --> 00:10:42,451
LIVE, AND WE SAID, "OH, THANKS,
GOD.
HE CAME OUT, HE'S OKAY, HE'S
GOING TO TAKE THE CAR, AND HE'S
94
00:10:42,518 --> 00:10:48,957
GOING TO LEAVE."
>> Alfonsi: HIS ATTORNEY SAYS
THEY WERE DRIVING AWAY WHEN
MARADIAGA WAS DRAGGED OUT OF THE
95
00:10:49,024 --> 00:10:55,130
CAR AND BEATEN BY POLICE.
HIS WIFE HASN'T SEEN HIM SINCE
THAT MORNING IN JUNE.
>> Maradiaga: FELIZ CUMPLEANOS,
96
00:10:55,197 --> 00:11:04,673
MI AMOR.
>> Alfonsi: IT TURNS OUT,
MARADIAGA KNEW HE WAS IN DANGER.
HOURS BEFORE HIS ARREST, HE LEFT
97
00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:09,111
HIS DAUGHTER, ALEJANDRA, A
SERIES OF VIDEOS SO SHE WOULD
HEAR HIS VOICE IN CASE HE WASN'T
THERE FOR HER EIGHTH BIRTHDAY.
98
00:11:09,178 --> 00:11:14,850
>> Maradiaga: ESTA PENSANDO
ENVOS HOY DIA TE CUPLEANOS.
>> Alfonsi: "I'M THINKING OF YOU
ON YOUR BIRTHDAY," HE SAYS, AND
99
00:11:14,917 --> 00:11:20,989
TELLS HER, "I LOVE YOU."
>> Maradiaga: TE AMO.
>> Alfonsi: SHE AND HER MOTHER
HAVE BEEN LIVING IN THE UNITED
100
00:11:21,056 --> 00:11:27,696
STATES FOR THREE YEARS BECAUSE
OF THREATS AT HOME, AND ARE NOW
APPLYING FOR ASYLUM.
WE CONCEALED ALEJANDRA'S
101
00:11:27,763 --> 00:11:34,536
IDENTITY FOR HER SAFETY.
>> Alejandra: I WANT TO GO SEE
MY DOG, MY FAMILY.
I HAVE A CAT AND A DOG.
102
00:11:34,603 --> 00:11:40,676
>> Alfonsi: IN AUGUST, WE MET
BERTA VALLE AND VICTORIA
CARDENAS IN WASHINGTON, WHERE
THEY'D BEEN PETITIONING U.S.
103
00:11:40,742 --> 00:11:45,647
LAWMAKERS TO HELP FREE THEIR
HUSBANDS AND ABOUT 150 OTHER
POLITICAL PRISONERS IN
NICARAGUA.
104
00:11:45,714 --> 00:11:51,987
>> Valle: AND WE'RE DEMANDING
JUSTICE...
>> Alfonsi: AT THAT POINT, THE
MEN HAD DISAPPEARED.
105
00:11:52,054 --> 00:11:56,658
NO ONE HAD HEARD FROM THEM OR
SEEN THEM IN TWO MONTHS.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT HE'S STILL
ALIVE?
106
00:11:56,725 --> 00:12:04,199
>> Valle: THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO-
- TO BELIEVE, YOU KNOW?
WE-- WE HAVE THE HOPE THAT--
THAT HE IS OKAY, BUT WE DON'T
107
00:12:04,266 --> 00:12:12,441
KNOW.
AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE ASKING FOR
A PROOF OF LIFE TO THIS POINT.
AND THIS IS WHY WE ARE DOING ALL
108
00:12:12,508 --> 00:12:23,986
THIS EFFORT TO COME OUT AND TO--
TO GO TO THE INTERNATIONAL
COMMUNITY, BECAUSE THERE'S
NOTHING WE CAN DO IN NICARAGUA.
109
00:12:24,052 --> 00:12:30,459
>> Alfonsi: LAST MONTH, 87 DAYS
AFTER THEIR ARRESTS, ATTORNEYS
FOR FELIX MARADIAGA AND JUAN
SEBASTIAN CHAMORRO WERE ALLOWED
110
00:12:30,526 --> 00:12:39,968
TO BRIEFLY SEE THEM AT EL
CHIPOTE, THE NICARAGUAN PRISON
THAT'S BEEN DESCRIBED BY HUMAN
RIGHTS WORKERS AS "A DUNGEON."
111
00:12:40,035 --> 00:12:47,176
BOTH MEN WERE CHARGED WITH
"CONSPIRACY TO UNDERMINE THE
NATIONAL INTEGRITY" AT A CLOSED
HEARING IN THE JAIL.
112
00:12:47,242 --> 00:12:54,449
ATTORNEYS SAY BOTH CHAMORRO AND
MARADIAGA HAVE LOST SIGNIFICANT
WEIGHT AND BEEN SUBJECTED TO
MONTHS OF INTERROGATIONS AND
113
00:12:54,516 --> 00:13:01,156
PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE.
>> Cardenas: IT'S A VIOLATION OF
THE BASIC UMAN RIGHTS.
IT'S NOT ONLY MY FAMILY WHO IS
114
00:13:01,223 --> 00:13:12,701
SUFFERING; IT'S MORE THAN 140
FAMILIES WHO HAVE POLITICAL
PRISONERS WHO ARE INNOCENT AND
ARE LIVING THIS AWFUL SITUATION.
115
00:13:12,768 --> 00:13:24,279
>> Alfonsi: VICTORIA CARDENAS
AND BERTA VALLE CANNOT GO BACK
TO NICARAGUA BECAUSE OF THEIR
APPEALS FOR HELP TO WASHINGTON
116
00:13:24,346 --> 00:13:28,684
AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.
THE WOMEN HAVE BEEN CHARGED IN
ABSENTIA WITH BEING "TRAITORS TO
THE HOMELAND."
117
00:13:28,750 --> 00:13:35,591
SO, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU
WENT BACK TO NICARAGUA NOW?
WOULD YOU BE ARRESTED?
>> Valle: DEFINITELY, YES.
118
00:13:35,657 --> 00:13:42,464
NOT ONLY ARRESTED, BUT, IF THEY
CONDEMN ME, THAT WOULD BE LIFE--
LIFE PRISON.
>> Alfonsi: THE VIOLENCE IN
119
00:13:42,531 --> 00:13:52,708
NICARAGUA IS FUELING AN EXODUS.
TENS OF THOUSANDS OF NICARAGUANS
HAVE FLED TO COSTA RICA, AND
U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER
120
00:13:52,774 --> 00:14:00,215
PROTECTION SAYS ABOUT 38,000
NICARAGUANS HAVE REACHED THE
U.S. BORDER SINCE JUNE COMPARED
TO LESS THAN 800 PEOPLE OVER THE
121
00:14:00,282 --> 00:14:06,455
SAME TIME LAST YEAR.
IN AUGUST, THE STATE DEPARTMENT
ANNOUNCED MORE SANCTIONS AGAINST
MEMBERS OF THE ORTEGA REGIME.
122
00:14:06,521 --> 00:14:14,529
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE
INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
APPROVED SENDING MORE THAN
$350 MILLION TO NICARAGUA THAT'S
123
00:14:14,596 --> 00:14:18,467
SUPPOSED TO HELP FIGHT HUNGER
AND COVID.
>> Elvira Salazar: WHAT DO YOU
THINK THEY ARE GOING TO GIVE
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00:14:18,533 --> 00:14:23,739
THAT MONEY TO?
JUST TO PUT THESE PEOPLE IN JAIL
AND TORTURE THEM EVEN MORE?
>> Alfonsi: LAST MONTH, MEMBERS
125
00:14:23,805 --> 00:14:27,576
OF CONGRESS FROM BOTH PARTIES
DEMANDED THE I.M.F. RECONSIDER
SENDING MORE MONEY TO
NICARAGUA...
126
00:14:27,643 --> 00:14:32,681
>> Albio Sires: THIS IS JUST NOT
ACCEPTABLE.
>> Alfonsi: ...AND CALLED FOR
STRONGER SANCTIONS AGAINST
127
00:14:32,748 --> 00:14:39,721
ORTEGA.
THE PENTAGON HAS ALSO WARNED
CONGRESS THAT RUSSIA HAS BEEN
SUPPLYING NICARAGUA WITH
128
00:14:39,788 --> 00:14:47,896
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN MILITARY
EQUIPMENT AND TRAINING, AND THAT
ORTEGA HAS ALLOWED RUSSIA TO
BUILD A LISTENING STATION SO
129
00:14:47,963 --> 00:14:52,701
CLOSE TO THE U.S.
HAVEN'T WE HEARD THIS STORY
BEFORE?
THIS ALL SOUNDS VERY FAMILIAR.
130
00:14:52,768 --> 00:14:57,205
>> Vivanco: IT-- IT IS, GOING
BACK 35 YEARS TO THE-- TO THE
MIDDLE OF THE COLD WAR.
THAT IS UNFORTUNATELY THE
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00:14:57,272 --> 00:15:04,680
SCENARIO WE ARE OPERATING, WE'RE
LIVING NOW.
>> Alfonsi: JOSE MIGUEL VIVANCO
SAYS, WITH RUSSIA'S CONTINUED
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00:15:04,746 --> 00:15:12,454
MILITARY AND FINANCIAL SUPPORT,
U.S. SANCTIONS WILL NOT BE
ENOUGH TO CONVINCE DANIEL ORTEGA
TO CHANGE COURSE.
133
00:15:12,521 --> 00:15:16,725
>> Vivanco: ORTEGA HAS DECIDED
TO STAY IN POWER FOR THE REST OF
HIS LIFE.
( TICKING )
134
00:15:24,766 --> 00:15:30,906
>> Lesley Stahl: WE AMERICANS
SPEND 90% OF OUR TIME INSIDE OF
BUILDINGS, YET MOST OF US GIVE
LITTLE THOUGHT TO THE ROLE
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00:15:30,972 --> 00:15:38,914
ARCHITECTURE PLAYS IN OUR LIVES
AND OUR HEALTH.
TONIGHT, WE BRING YOU A STORY
ABOUT A GROUP OF AWARD-WINNING
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00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:46,955
YOUNG ARCHITECTS WHO HAVE SET
OUT TO CREATE A NEW MODEL OF
ARCHITECTURE-- NOT A PARTICULAR
STYLE OF BUILDING, BUT A WAY OF
137
00:15:47,022 --> 00:15:54,830
THINKING ABOUT HOW TO BUILD, WHO
SHOULD BUILD, USING WHAT, AND
FOR WHOM.
THEIR NON-PROFIT FIRM, BASED IN
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00:15:54,896 --> 00:16:02,904
BOSTON, IS CALLED MASS, SHORT
FOR "MODEL OF ARCHITECTURE
SERVING SOCIETY."
AND, THOUGH THEY TRAINED AT
139
00:16:02,971 --> 00:16:12,714
HARVARD, THEY SAY THEY LEARNED
THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSONS OF
ARCHITECTURE DURING THEIR TIME
SPENT IN, OF ALL PLACES, RWANDA.
140
00:16:12,781 --> 00:16:22,924
RWANDA IS A COUNTRY MANY PEOPLE
KNOW FOR ONE THING: THE 1994
GENOCIDE THAT KILLED MORE THAN
800,000 PEOPLE.
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00:16:22,991 --> 00:16:33,668
TODAY, RWANDA IS AT PEACE, A
BUSTLING NATION OF 13 MILLION,
WORKING HARD TO LIFT ITS
POPULATION OUT OF POVERTY.
142
00:16:33,735 --> 00:16:44,546
THERE ARE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY, SEVERAL
OF THEM BEING DESIGNED BY MASS.
THOUGH STARTED BY AMERICANS, THE
143
00:16:44,613 --> 00:16:50,852
HEAD OF ITS TEAM IN KIGALI TODAY
IS RWANDAN ARCHITECT CHRISTIAN
BENIMANA.
I HEARD THAT WHEN MASS STARTED,
144
00:16:50,919 --> 00:16:54,790
THERE WAS NO WORD FOR
"ARCHITECT" IN YOUR LANGUAGE.
>> Christian Benimana: AND THERE
IS STILL NO WORD FOR
145
00:16:54,856 --> 00:17:00,695
"ARCHITECT."
YOU HAVE AN EXPRESSION:
( SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE )
>> Stahl: MEANING?
146
00:17:00,762 --> 00:17:10,205
>> Benimana: "EXPERT IN THE
CREATION OF BUILDINGS."
>> Stahl: BENIMANA TOLD US HE
DREAMED OF CREATING BUILDINGS
147
00:17:10,272 --> 00:17:18,713
EVEN AS A LITTLE BOY.
BUT, WITH NO SCHOOL OF
ARCHITECTURE IN POST-GENOCIDE
RWANDA, HE HAD TO STUDY IN
148
00:17:18,780 --> 00:17:24,686
CHINA, IN MANDARIN.
MICHAEL MURPHY, MASS' EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR, HAD A VERY DIFFERENT
PATH TO ARCHITECTURE.
149
00:17:24,753 --> 00:17:28,423
>> Michael Murphy: I STUDIED
ENGLISH LITERATURE.
>> Stahl: WELL, THAT'S GOING TO
GET YOU FAR IN ARCHITECTURE.
150
00:17:28,490 --> 00:17:34,930
>> Murphy: YEAH.
( CHUCKLES )
>> Stahl: MURPHY'S LIFE TOOK A
SHARP TURN AFTER COLLEGE, WHEN
151
00:17:34,996 --> 00:17:42,704
HIS FATHER WAS DIAGNOSED WITH
CANCER, GIVEN JUST A FEW WEEKS
TO LIVE.
MURPHY RUSHED BACK TO
152
00:17:42,771 --> 00:17:47,209
POUGHKEEPSIE, NEW YORK, TO THEIR
OLD HOME THAT HIS DAD HAD SPENT
WEEKENDS RESTORING.
>> Murphy: I SAID, "WHAT CAN I
153
00:17:47,275 --> 00:17:52,981
DO WHILE I WAIT HERE ON DEATH
WATCH?"
SO, I START WORKING ON THE
HOUSE, AND, AFTER THREE WEEKS,
154
00:17:53,048 --> 00:17:58,286
HE WAS STILL ALIVE.
SIX WEEKS, WE STARTED WORKING
TOGETHER.
AFTER A YEAR AND A HALF-- I'D
155
00:17:58,353 --> 00:18:02,824
FULLY RESTORED THE BUILDING.
HE WAS FULLY IN REMISSION, AND
HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, WORKING ON
THIS HOUSE WITH YOU, IT SAVED MY
156
00:18:02,891 --> 00:18:06,728
LIFE.
IT HEALED ME."
>> Stahl: WHOA.
WOW.
157
00:18:06,795 --> 00:18:11,166
>> Murphy: AND THEN I SAID,
"WELL, I HAVE TO BE AN ARCHITECT
NOW."
>> Alan Ricks: AND HE CAME IN
158
00:18:11,233 --> 00:18:16,938
WEARING THESE SILVER COWBOY
BOOTS.
( LAUGHS )
>> Stahl: ALAN RICKS AND MURPHY
159
00:18:17,005 --> 00:18:24,746
BECAME FAST FRIENDS AS
FIRST-YEAR STUDENTS AT HARVARD'S
GRADUATE SCHOOL OF DESIGN.
BUT AS THEY DOVE IN, BOTH FOUND
160
00:18:24,813 --> 00:18:30,752
SOMETHING WANTING IN THE
CURRICULUM.
>> Murphy: WE WERE LEARNING
ABOUT THE HEROISM OF
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00:18:30,819 --> 00:18:35,590
ARCHITECTURE, THE BEAUTIFUL
SCULPTURES, THE NAMES OF THE
FAMOUS ARCHITECTS.
>> Stahl: BUT NOT SO MUCH ABOUT
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00:18:35,657 --> 00:18:45,300
HOW ARCHITECTURE COULD HELP
PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES.
DURING FIRST SEMESTER, MURPHY
WENT TO A TALK BY ONE OF HIS
163
00:18:45,367 --> 00:18:51,006
IDOLS, DR. PAUL FARMER, WHO HAD
FOUNDED THE NON-PROFIT PARTNERS
IN HEALTH TO PROVIDE MEDICAL
CARE FOR THE NEEDIEST
164
00:18:51,072 --> 00:18:54,976
POPULATIONS AROUND THE WORLD.
>> Murphy: HE SAID, "WE'RE
BUILDING HOSPITALS, WE'RE
BUILDING CLINICS, WE'RE BUILDING
165
00:18:55,043 --> 00:19:00,749
SCHOOLS."
AND SO, WHEN I WENT UP TO HIM
AFTERWARDS TO ASK, YOU KNOW,
"WHO ARE THE ARCHITECTS THAT
166
00:19:00,815 --> 00:19:06,288
YOU'RE WORKING WITH?," HE SAID,
"YOU KNOW, ARCHITECTS HAVE NEVER
ASKED US HOW THEY COULD BE OF
SERVICE TO WHAT WE'RE DOING, SO
167
00:19:06,354 --> 00:19:11,593
WE OFTEN HAVE TO DO IT
OURSELVES."
>> Stahl: WHY WEREN'T ARCHITECTS
ATTRACTED TO WORKING WITH YOU?
168
00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:16,464
I MEAN, A LOT OF THEM CARE ABOUT
THE POOR.
>> Dr. Paul Farmer: THEY
CERTAINLY DO.
169
00:19:16,531 --> 00:19:20,969
BUT THE WAY THE INCENTIVE
STRUCTURE IS SET UP IS, "HEY,
YOU GIVE US MONEY, WE'LL DESIGN
SOMETHING FOR YOU."
170
00:19:21,036 --> 00:19:27,976
>> Stahl: SO, WHEN MURPHY
OFFERED TO VOLUNTEER ON A
PARTNERS IN HEALTH PROJECT IN
RWANDA THE FOLLOWING SUMMER OF
171
00:19:28,043 --> 00:19:31,212
2007, DR. FARMER SAID, "BRING IT
ON."
>> Farmer: WE GAVE HIM SOME VERY
HUMBLE PROJECTS.
172
00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:35,417
>> Stahl: YOU'RE SMILING.
( LAUGHS )
MUST BE PRETTY GOOD.
>> Murphy: HE ASKED ME IF I
173
00:19:35,483 --> 00:19:39,854
WOULD DESIGN A LITTLE LAUNDRY
BUILDING.
>> Stahl: A LAUNDRY BUILDING?
>> Murphy: ( LAUGHS )
174
00:19:39,921 --> 00:19:42,891
>> Stahl: WELL, HOW DID THE
LAUNDRY LOOK?
>> Farmer: IT LOOKED PRETTY
GOOD.
175
00:19:42,958 --> 00:19:49,397
IT STILL LOOKS GOOD.
>> Stahl: SO GOOD, HE CALLED
MICHAEL MURPHY A FEW MONTHS
LATER AND ASKED IF HE COULD HELP
176
00:19:49,464 --> 00:19:57,172
DESIGN A BRAND NEW HOSPITAL FOR
A REMOTE DISTRICT OF 350,000,
THAT DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A DOCTOR.
YOU'RE STILL A STUDENT.
177
00:19:57,238 --> 00:20:00,842
>> Murphy: STILL A STUDENT.
SO, I LOOKED AROUND MY
CLASSMATES AND SAID, "THIS CRAZY
CALL CAME IN.
178
00:20:00,909 --> 00:20:06,381
CAN ANYONE HELP ME?"
>> Stahl: YOU SAID YES RIGHT
AWAY, WITHOUT HESITATION.
>> Ricks: YEAH.
179
00:20:06,448 --> 00:20:12,721
I MEAN, WHO-- WHO WOULDN'T?
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY.
>> Stahl: BUT WHEN DR. FARMER
SAID THEIR FIRST DESIGN LOOKED
180
00:20:12,787 --> 00:20:22,931
LIKE AN ARMY BARRACKS, MURPHY
DECIDED TO TAKE A YEAR OFF AND
MOVE TO THE SITE CALLED BUTARO,
WHERE FARMER GAVE HIM THREE
181
00:20:22,998 --> 00:20:30,772
CHALLENGES HE SAYS HAVE DEFINED
MASS' WORK TO THIS DAY: THE
HOSPITAL SHOULD BE BEAUTIFUL;
BUILDING IT SHOULD HELP AS MANY
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00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:37,579
LOCAL PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE; AND IT
SHOULD HAVE NATURAL AIRFLOW, TO
PREVENT THE SPREAD OF DISEASES
LIKE TUBERCULOSIS THAT OFTEN RAN
183
00:20:37,646 --> 00:20:43,051
RAMPANT IN ENCLOSED WARDS AND
WAITING ROOMS.
>> Murphy: LET ME SHOW YOU THIS
IMAGE.
184
00:20:43,118 --> 00:20:50,225
>> Stahl: MURPHY SHOWED US THE
DESIGN THEY CAME UP WITH TO MOVE
FRESH AIR NATURALLY THROUGH EACH
WARD.
185
00:20:50,291 --> 00:20:56,031
>> Murphy: THAT'S SIMPLE
PHYSICS, WHERE AIR MOVES FROM A
LOWER TO HIGHER AREA.
>> Stahl: BEDS WOULD GO IN THE
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00:20:56,097 --> 00:21:02,671
MIDDLE, GIVING EVERY PATIENT A
BEAUTIFUL VIEW.
>> Murphy: BEAUTY MATTERS.
SPACES AROUND US THAT ARE
187
00:21:02,737 --> 00:21:09,310
DESIGNED WITH BEAUTY SAY THAT WE
MATTER AS INDIVIDUALS.
>> Stahl: IF I WERE A DOCTOR,
WOULDN'T I SAY, "I CARE ABOUT
188
00:21:09,377 --> 00:21:12,847
BEAUTY, BUT I WANT A HEART
MONITOR FIRST"?
>> Farmer: WHY MAKE THIS A
CHOICE BETWEEN A HEART MONITOR
189
00:21:12,914 --> 00:21:20,955
AND BEAUTY?
SURELY, WE CAN HAVE BOTH.
>> Stahl: WHAT THEY COULDN'T
HAVE?
190
00:21:21,022 --> 00:21:25,260
HEAVY EQUIPMENT LIKE FRONT-END
LOADERS, THAT WERE TOO COSTLY TO
GET TO THE SITE.
>> Murphy: AND SO, WE ASKED,
191
00:21:25,326 --> 00:21:31,132
"COULD WE DIG IT BY HAND?"
AND WE DUG THE FOUNDATION BY
HAND.
EMPLOY MORE PEOPLE.
192
00:21:31,199 --> 00:21:34,502
AND, YOU KNOW, SHOCKER-- WE DID
IT FASTER AND CHEAPER THAN...
( LAUGHS )
...THAN IF...
193
00:21:34,569 --> 00:21:38,073
>> Stahl: THAN IF YOU HAD THE
BIG...
>> Murphy: ...THAN IF WE HAD THE
FRONT-END LOADER.
194
00:21:38,139 --> 00:21:41,409
( LAUGHS )
>> Stahl: HOW MANY PEOPLE
ACTUALLY WORKED ON THIS PROJECT,
TOTAL?
195
00:21:41,476 --> 00:21:47,315
>> Murphy: OVER 4,000 PEOPLE
WORKED ON THE PROJECT.
>> Stahl: AND INSTEAD OF
TRUCKING IN MATERIALS, THEY
196
00:21:47,382 --> 00:21:54,556
DECIDED TO USE VOLCANIC STONE
THAT FARMERS HERE CONSIDER A
NUISANCE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO
CLEAR IT FROM THEIR FIELDS.
197
00:21:54,622 --> 00:21:59,194
>> Ricks: YOU SEE THE STONE
EVERYWHERE, BUT NORMALLY IT'S
JUST PILED UP.
AND WE THOUGHT, THIS WOULD BE A
198
00:21:59,260 --> 00:22:06,334
REALLY VALUABLE MATERIAL IN-- IN
THE U.S., YOU KNOW.
COULD WE USE IT IN A DIFFERENT
WAY?
199
00:22:06,401 --> 00:22:14,909
>> Stahl: THEY DESIGNED THE
WHOLE HOSPITAL FACADE WITH IT,
HIRING DOZENS OF LOCAL MASONS
AND SPAWNING A NEW INDUSTRY.
200
00:22:14,976 --> 00:22:22,650
THIS WOMAN, WHO TRAINED AT
BUTARO, IS NOW A FOREWOMAN WITH
A TEAM OF MASONS SHE TRAINS.
>> Benimana: THE AMOUNT OF HOURS
201
00:22:22,717 --> 00:22:30,759
THEY SPENT DOING THIS.
>> Stahl: CHRISTIAN BENIMANA,
BACK FROM SHANGHAI, WAS
IMPRESSED BY THE THOUGHT GIVEN
202
00:22:30,825 --> 00:22:35,964
TO THE PROCESS OF BUILDING AND,
BY GIVING SO MANY PEOPLE WORK,
IMPROVING THE LOCAL ECONOMY.
>> Benimana: IT IS CRITICAL FOR
203
00:22:36,030 --> 00:22:42,704
US TO HAVE PROSPECT FOR A BETTER
FUTURE.
>> Stahl: AND GIVE PEOPLE PRIDE
IN RWANDA.
204
00:22:42,771 --> 00:22:48,643
>> Benimana: THAT'S VERY
IMPORTANT TO ME, BECAUSE I--
MAKE ME PROUD, AS WELL.
>> Stahl: HE JOINED THE TEAM AND
205
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:53,648
HELPED DESIGN HOUSING FOR
DOCTORS AT THE HOSPITAL.
>> Ricks: VERY QUICKLY, WE HAD A
LOT OF WORK, BECAUSE THERE
206
00:22:53,715 --> 00:23:00,755
WEREN'T MANY OTHER PEOPLE DOING
THIS.
>> Stahl: THEY DECIDED TO BECOME
A NON-PROFIT ARCHITECTURE FIRM,
207
00:23:00,822 --> 00:23:09,664
TO WORK ON PROJECTS THAT
OTHERWISE COULDN'T AFFORD
HIGH-PRICED DESIGNS.
THEY'VE BUILT A MATERNITY CARE
208
00:23:09,731 --> 00:23:18,773
CENTER IN MALAWI, A CHOLERA
HOSPITAL IN HAITI, SCHOOLS-- ALL
WITH THE SAME PRINCIPLES OF AIR
FLOW, BEAUTY, AND CREATING JOBS.
209
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:24,746
A DECADE LATER, THEY HAVE A
STAFF OF OVER 200, MORE THAN
HALF OF THEM RWANDAN.
THIS TREE IS EVEN MORE
210
00:23:24,813 --> 00:23:33,755
BEAUTIFUL, CLOSE UP.
WE VISITED BUTARO HOSPITAL THIS
SUMMER.
ITS CENTRAL COURTYARD FELT
211
00:23:33,822 --> 00:23:39,494
PART-MEDICAL CENTER, PART-PUBLIC
GARDENS, AND ITS COVERED OUTDOOR
WAITING ROOM AND HALLWAYS IN
THIS TIME OF COVID FELT
212
00:23:39,561 --> 00:23:46,634
PRESCIENT.
>> Murphy: THIS ENTIRE HOSPITAL
IS DESIGNED AROUND THAT SIMPLE
IDEA THAT AIR FLOW, AIR
213
00:23:46,701 --> 00:23:52,240
MOVEMENT, ARE THE BASIC PREMISE
THAT WE SHOULD DESIGN OUR
BUILDINGS AROUND-- AND, IN
PARTICULAR, OUR HOSPITALS, SO
214
00:23:52,307 --> 00:24:00,748
THAT PATIENTS DON'T TRANSMIT
AIRBORNE DISEASES TO EACH OTHER.
>> Stahl: FOUR HOURS TO THE
SOUTH, WE WENT TO SEE MASS'
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00:24:00,815 --> 00:24:09,057
LARGEST PROJECT YET, A
69-BUILDING CAMPUS FOR A
BRAND-NEW COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE
FUNDED BY AMERICAN
216
00:24:09,123 --> 00:24:13,194
PHILANTHROPIST HOWARD BUFFETT...
>> Ricks: THIS SPACE IS REALLY--
WE WANT TO CREATE A HUB.
>> Stahl: IT'S SPECTACULAR.
217
00:24:13,261 --> 00:24:21,536
...WHERE MASS IS PUSHING ITS
PHILOSOPHY TO THE LIMIT.
AS ALAN RICKS SHOWED US, JUST
ABOUT EVERYTHING HERE, FROM THE
218
00:24:21,603 --> 00:24:26,040
EARTHEN WALLS...
>> Ricks: THE LINES YOU SEE ARE
THE LAYERS.
>> Stahl: ...TO THE FURNITURE...
219
00:24:26,107 --> 00:24:30,979
>> Ricks: THE WOVEN BACK-RESTS
OF THESE CHAIRS.
>> Stahl: ...IS BEING MADE
LOCALLY.
220
00:24:31,045 --> 00:24:39,387
UNDER CHRISTIAN BENIMANA'S
LEADERSHIP, MASS STARTED A
FURNITURE DIVISION TO
COLLABORATE WITH LOCAL ARTISANS
221
00:24:39,454 --> 00:24:46,928
ON CREATIVE DESIGNS, INSTEAD OF
ORDERING FROM A CATALOGUE.
>> Benimana: IT'S ONE THING TO
GO TO DUBAI AND TURKEY AND CHINA
222
00:24:46,995 --> 00:24:53,501
AND EUROPE AND PICK A CHAIR FROM
A SHOWROOM, PUT IT ON A FLIGHT
AND BRING IT HERE; IT'S ANOTHER
THING TO FIGURE OUT A SYSTEM
223
00:24:53,568 --> 00:24:59,173
THAT CAN CREATE MORE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR GROWTH.
>> Stahl: AND IF YOU'RE THINKING
MASS' MODEL COULD NEVER WORK IN
224
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:06,381
THE U.S.?
MICHAEL MURPHY WASN'T SURE,
EITHER-- UNTIL HE WAS CHALLENGED
BY A COMMUNITY LEADER BACK HOME.
225
00:25:06,447 --> 00:25:10,518
>> Murphy: HE SAID, "YOU'RE
DOING ALL THIS WORK IN HAITI AND
RWANDA.
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO COME BACK
226
00:25:10,585 --> 00:25:17,091
TO YOUR HOMETOWN AND WORK WITH
US IN POUGHKEEPSIE?
WE NEED A LOT OF HELP."
>> Stahl: POUGHKEEPSIE, LIKE
227
00:25:17,158 --> 00:25:23,498
MANY ONCE-THRIVING INDUSTRIAL
CITIES, HAD SEEN FACTORIES
CLOSE, ITS DOWNTOWN CHOKED OFF
BY HIGHWAYS, ITS STOREFRONTS
228
00:25:23,564 --> 00:25:31,472
BOARDED UP.
TO TOP IT OFF, ITS CREEK FLOODED
DURING HURRICANE IRENE.
>> Murphy: WE HAD JUST BEEN IN
229
00:25:31,539 --> 00:25:38,046
ONE OF THE MOST RURAL PLACES IN
THE WORLD, AND WE HAD SEEN A
HOSPITAL CHANGE THE ECONOMY.
I SAID, "WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT
230
00:25:38,112 --> 00:25:46,754
SAME THING HERE IN
POUGHKEEPSIE?"
>> Stahl: SO, MASS OPENED A
SMALL OFFICE ON MAIN STREET AND
231
00:25:46,821 --> 00:25:54,662
GOT TO WORK CONVERTING THE
CITY'S OLD TROLLEY BARN INTO AN
ART SPACE AND DESIGNING HOUSING.
IT'S HELPING TURN THIS OLD
232
00:25:54,729 --> 00:25:59,367
BUILDING INTO A FOOD HALL...
>> WE'RE GOING TO SAVE THIS
BUILDING.
>> Stahl: ...AND CONVERTING THIS
233
00:25:59,434 --> 00:26:06,140
LONG-ABANDONED FACTORY INTO A
NEW HEADQUARTERS FOR THE
ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP SCENIC
HUDSON.
234
00:26:06,207 --> 00:26:10,378
>> Murphy: IF YOU LOOK UP, YOU
CAN SEE THAT THIS WHOLE OPENING
WAS ONCE A WINDOW.
>> Stahl: THAT WAS A WINDOW?
235
00:26:10,445 --> 00:26:14,916
>> Murphy: THAT WAS ALL A
WINDOW.
>> Stahl: OH, MY GOODNESS.
MURPHY SAYS OLD BUILDINGS LIKE
236
00:26:14,983 --> 00:26:22,924
THIS WERE DESIGNED TO LET IN
FRESH AIR, BUT WITH THE
INVENTION OF AIR CONDITIONING,
"BIG WINDOWS BECAME A LIABILITY,
237
00:26:22,991 --> 00:26:31,032
SO WE SHRUNK THEM AND SEALED OUR
BUILDINGS AIR-TIGHT."
>> Murphy: THIS IS A SORT OF
DEVIL'S BARGAIN, BECAUSE IT HAS
238
00:26:31,099 --> 00:26:36,337
MADE ALL OF OUR BUILDINGS HAVE
REALLY LIMITED AIR FLOW.
AND HENCE, DURING COVID, WE WERE
ALL VERY VULNERABLE.
239
00:26:36,404 --> 00:26:42,076
>> Stahl: WE SAW IT WITH THE
NURSING HOMES.
>> Murphy: AND THE PRISONS.
>> Stahl: DO YOU THINK THAT
240
00:26:42,143 --> 00:26:48,750
COVID WILL CHANGE ARCHITECTURE
FOR EVERYBODY?
>> Murphy: EVERYONE AROUND THE
WORLD IS GOING THROUGH A SHIFT
241
00:26:48,816 --> 00:26:57,191
IN THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THE
BUILDINGS AROUND US-- THAT THEY
MAY MAKE US SICKER; THAT THEY
COULD MAKE US HEALTHIER IF THEY
242
00:26:57,258 --> 00:27:06,768
WERE BETTER DESIGNED.
>> Stahl: MASS' NEW DESIGN WILL
REOPEN THE WINDOWS AND, LIKE A
CUTTING-EDGE VERSION OF THE
243
00:27:06,834 --> 00:27:13,074
HOSPITAL IN RWANDA, USE A SOLAR-
POWERED SYSTEM TO HEAT AND COOL
AIR AT EACH WINDOW, ELIMINATING
TRADITIONAL AIR CONDITIONING AND
244
00:27:13,141 --> 00:27:21,516
HEATING ENTIRELY.
AND, THEY HAVE A PLAN TO
TRANSFORM THAT FLOODING CREEK
THAT HAS BECOME SOMETHING OF A
245
00:27:21,582 --> 00:27:26,020
GARBAGE DUMP.
>> Sierra Bainbridge: SOME
GUTTERS.
WE GET SHOPPING CARTS.
246
00:27:26,087 --> 00:27:29,824
>> Stahl: WHAT IS THAT?
AN AIR CONDITIONER?
>> Bainbridge: MM-HMM.
MM-HMM.
247
00:27:29,891 --> 00:27:34,929
>> Stahl: MASS LANDSCAPE
ARCHITECT SIERRA BAINBRIDGE CAME
HERE WITH IDEAS ABOUT WIDENING
THE CREEK TO HELP WITH FLOODING,
248
00:27:34,996 --> 00:27:42,770
BUT ALSO...
>> Bainbridge: IF YOU'RE TAKING
A HOLISTIC VIEW OF THE PROBLEM,
THEN THE SOLUTION ALSO BEGINS TO
249
00:27:42,837 --> 00:27:50,044
BE A HOLISTIC VIEW.
>> Stahl: MASS CAME UP WITH
DESIGNS TO TURN THE BLIGHTED
CREEK INTO BEAUTIFUL PARK SPACE
250
00:27:50,111 --> 00:27:56,084
THAT WOULD RUN ALL THROUGH
POUGHKEEPSIE.
>> Bainbridge: EACH PROJECT HAS
TO NOT SOLVE FOR THAT ONE THING.
251
00:27:56,150 --> 00:28:00,755
WE HAVE TO BE THINKING ABOUT HOW
MUCH CAN WE MAKE DESIGN HAVE THE
BIGGEST POSSIBLE IMPACT?
>> Stahl: IT'S A LESSON MASS
252
00:28:00,822 --> 00:28:06,761
BELIEVES CAN APPLY IN MANY
AMERICAN CITIES.
THEY HAVE PROJECTS NOW IN
CLEVELAND, BIRMINGHAM, AND
253
00:28:06,828 --> 00:28:14,902
SANTA FE.
AND THEIR GOSPEL OF ARCHITECTURE
SERVING SOCIETY HAS REACHED
INSIDE THAT IVORY TOWER, WHOSE
254
00:28:14,969 --> 00:28:22,643
TEACHINGS THEY ONCE FOUND
LACKING.
LAST SPRING, MURPHY TAUGHT
LESSONS HE LEARNED IN RWANDA,
255
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:28,316
BACK AT HARVARD.
>> Murphy: THERE'S SOME CLEAR
SIMPLICITY TO IT-- THERE'S
THINGS WE HAVE TO BUILD, THERE'S
256
00:28:28,382 --> 00:28:34,222
PEOPLE WE HAVE TO HIRE, THERE'S
MATERIALS WE HAVE TO USE.
AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE WHOLE
THING AS A DESIGN PROJECT, YOU
257
00:28:34,288 --> 00:28:36,824
CAN HAVE A LOT MORE IMPACT.
( TICKING )
258
00:28:41,129 --> 00:28:47,034
>> WHY DOES AN ARCHITECTURE FIRM
EMPLOY FILMMAKERS?
>> HOPEFULLY, PEOPLE START
DEMANDING SOMETHING DIFFERENT
259
00:28:47,101 --> 00:28:53,741
FROM THE BUILDINGS THAT THEY
LIVE IN.
260
00:28:55,143 --> 00:28:58,446
( TICKING )
261
00:28:59,313 --> 00:29:06,954
>> Anderson Cooper: WHEN YUVAL
NOAH HARARI PUBLISHED HIS FIRST
BOOK "SAPIENS" IN 2014 ABOUT THE
HISTORY OF THE HUMAN SPECIES, IT
262
00:29:07,021 --> 00:29:13,094
BECAME A GLOBAL BESTSELLER AND
TURNED THE LITTLE-KNOWN ISRAELI
HISTORY PROFESSOR INTO ONE OF
THE MOST POPULAR WRITERS AND
263
00:29:13,161 --> 00:29:19,100
THINKERS ON THE PLANET.
BUT WHEN WE MET WITH HARARI IN
TEL AVIV THIS SUMMER, IT WASN'T
OUR SPECIES' PAST THAT CONCERNED
264
00:29:19,167 --> 00:29:27,108
HIM; IT WAS OUR FUTURE.
HARARI BELIEVES WE MAY BE ON THE
BRINK OF CREATING NOT JUST A
NEW, ENHANCED SPECIES OF HUMAN,
265
00:29:27,175 --> 00:29:34,916
BUT AN ENTIRELY NEW KIND OF
BEING, ONE THAT IS FAR MORE
INTELLIGENT THAN WE ARE.
IT SOUNDS LIKE SCIENCE FICTION,
266
00:29:34,982 --> 00:29:39,487
BUT YUVAL NOAH HARARI SAYS IT'S
ACTUALLY MUCH MORE DANGEROUS
THAN THAT.
YOU SAID, "WE ARE ONE OF THE
267
00:29:39,554 --> 00:29:45,326
LAST GENERATIONS OF HOMO
SAPIENS.
WITHIN A CENTURY OR TWO, EARTH
WILL BE DOMINATED BY ENTITIES
268
00:29:45,393 --> 00:29:48,863
THAT ARE MORE DIFFERENT FROM US
THAN WE ARE DIFFERENT FROM
CHIMPANZEES."
>> Yuval Noah Harari: YEAH.
269
00:29:48,930 --> 00:29:55,102
>> Cooper: WHAT THE HELL DOES
THAT MEAN?
THAT FREAKED ME OUT.
>> Harari: YOU KNOW WE WILL SOON
270
00:29:55,169 --> 00:30:03,244
HAVE THE POWER TO RE-ENGINEER
OUR BODIES AND BRAINS-- WHETHER
IT IS WITH GENETIC ENGINEERING;
OR BY DIRECTLY CONNECTING BRAINS
271
00:30:03,311 --> 00:30:13,087
TO COMPUTERS; OR BY CREATING
COMPLETELY NON-ORGANIC ENTITIES,
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WHICH IS
NOT BASED AT ALL ON THE ORGANIC
272
00:30:13,154 --> 00:30:21,162
BODY AND THE ORGANIC BRAIN.
AND THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE
DEVELOPING AT BREAK-NECK SPEED.
>> Cooper: IF THAT IS TRUE, THEN
273
00:30:21,229 --> 00:30:27,235
IT CREATES A WHOLE OTHER
SPECIES.
>> Harari: THIS IS SOMETHING
WHICH IS WAY BEYOND JUST ANOTHER
274
00:30:27,301 --> 00:30:34,875
SPECIES.
>> Cooper: YUVAL NOAH HARARI IS
TALKING ABOUT THE RACE TO
DEVELOP ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE,
275
00:30:34,942 --> 00:30:43,084
AS WELL AS OTHER TECHNOLOGIES
LIKE GENE EDITING, THAT COULD
ONE DAY ENABLE PARENTS TO CREATE
SMARTER OR MORE ATTRACTIVE
276
00:30:43,150 --> 00:30:49,123
CHILDREN, AND BRAIN COMPUTER
INTERFACES THAT COULD RESULT IN
HUMAN/MACHINE HYBRIDS.
WHAT DOES THAT DO TO A SOCIETY?
277
00:30:49,190 --> 00:30:58,032
IT SEEMS LIKE THE RICH WILL HAVE
ACCESS, WHEREAS OTHERS WOULDN'T.
>> Harari: ONE OF THE DANGERS IS
THAT WE WILL SEE IN THE COMING
278
00:30:58,099 --> 00:31:05,573
DECADES, A PROCESS OF, OF-- OF--
GREATER INEQUALITY THAN IN ANY
PREVIOUS TIME IN HISTORY,
BECAUSE, FOR THE FIRST TIME, IT
279
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:13,080
WILL BE REAL, BIOLOGICAL
INEQUALITY.
IF THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES ARE
AVAILABLE ONLY TO THE RICH OR
280
00:31:13,147 --> 00:31:23,090
ONLY TO PEOPLE FROM A CERTAIN
COUNTRY, THEN HOMO SAPIENS WILL
SPLIT INTO DIFFERENT BIOLOGICAL
CASTES, BECAUSE THEY REALLY HAVE
281
00:31:23,157 --> 00:31:31,098
DIFFERENT BODIES AND-- AND
DIFFERENT ABILITIES.
>> Cooper: HARARI HAS SPENT THE
LAST FEW YEARS LECTURING AND
282
00:31:31,165 --> 00:31:37,104
WRITING ABOUT WHAT MAY LIE AHEAD
FOR HUMANKIND.
>> Harari: IN THE COMING
GENERATIONS, WE WILL LEARN HOW
283
00:31:37,171 --> 00:31:45,012
TO ENGINEER BODIES AND BRAINS
AND MINDS.
>> Cooper: HE HAS WRITTEN TWO
BOOKS ABOUT THE CHALLENGES WE
284
00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:51,218
FACE IN THE FUTURE, "HOMO DEUS"
AND "21 LESSONS FOR THE 21st
CENTURY," WHICH, ALONG WITH
"SAPIENS" HAVE SOLD MORE THAN 35
285
00:31:51,285 --> 00:31:58,659
MILLION COPIES AND BEEN
TRANSLATED INTO 65 LANGUAGES.
HIS WRITINGS HAVE BEEN
RECOMMENDED BY PRESIDENT BARACK
286
00:31:58,726 --> 00:32:04,899
OBAMA AS WELL AS TECH MOGULS
BILL GATES AND MARK ZUCKERBERG.
YOU RAISE WARNINGS ABOUT
TECHNOLOGY.
287
00:32:04,965 --> 00:32:10,204
YOU'RE ALSO EMBRACED BY A LOT OF
FOLKS IN SILICON VALLEY.
>> Harari: YEAH.
>> Cooper: ISN'T THAT SORT OF A
288
00:32:10,271 --> 00:32:18,746
CONTRADICTION?
>> Harari: THEY ARE A BIT AFRAID
OF THEIR OWN POWER; THAT THEY
HAVE REALIZED THE IMMENSE
289
00:32:18,813 --> 00:32:23,751
INFLUENCE THEY HAVE OVER THE
WORLD, OVER THE COURSE OF
EVOLUTION, REALLY.
AND I THINK THAT SPOOKS AT LEAST
290
00:32:23,818 --> 00:32:31,092
SOME OF THEM, AND THAT'S A GOOD
THING.
AND THIS IS WHY THEY ARE KIND
OF, TO SOME EXTENT, OPEN TO
291
00:32:31,158 --> 00:32:39,233
LISTENING.
>> Cooper: YOU STARTED AS A
HISTORY PROFESSOR.
WHAT DO YOU CALL YOURSELF NOW?
292
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:45,239
>> Harari: I'M STILL A
HISTORIAN, BUT I THINK HISTORY
IS THE STUDY OF CHANGE, NOT JUST
THE STUDY OF THE PAST.
293
00:32:45,306 --> 00:32:52,546
BUT IT COVERS THE FUTURE, AS
WELL.
>> Cooper: HARARI GOT HIS Ph.D.
IN HISTORY AT OXFORD AND LIVES
294
00:32:52,613 --> 00:32:59,253
IN ISRAEL, WHERE THE PAST IS
STILL VERY PRESENT.
HE TOOK US TO THIS ARCHEOLOGICAL
SITE CALLED TEL GEZER.
295
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:07,094
>> Harari: 4,000 OR 5,000 YEARS
AGO, THIS WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST
CITIES IN THE AREA.
>> Cooper: HARARI SAYS CITIES
296
00:33:07,161 --> 00:33:13,100
LIKE THIS WERE ONLY POSSIBLE
BECAUSE ABOUT 70,000 YEARS AGO,
OUR SPECIES, HOMO SAPIENS,
EXPERIENCED A COGNITIVE CHANGE
297
00:33:13,167 --> 00:33:21,242
THAT HELPED US CREATE LANGUAGE,
WHICH THEN MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR
US TO COOPERATE IN LARGE GROUPS
AND DRIVE NEANDERTHALS AND ALL
298
00:33:21,308 --> 00:33:29,483
OTHER LESS-COOPERATIVE HUMAN
SPECIES INTO EXTINCTION.
HARARI FEARS WE ARE NOW THE ONES
AT RISK OF BEING DOMINATED BY
299
00:33:29,550 --> 00:33:35,256
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.
>> Harari: MAYBE THE BIGGEST
THING THAT WE ARE FACING IS
REALLY A KIND OF EVOLUTIONARY
300
00:33:35,322 --> 00:33:42,630
DIVERGENCE.
FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS,
INTELLIGENCE AND CONSCIOUSNESS
WENT TOGETHER.
301
00:33:42,696 --> 00:33:49,103
CONSCIOUSNESS IS THE ABILITY TO
FEEL THINGS LIKE PAIN AND
PLEASURE AND LOVE AND HATE.
INTELLIGENCE IS THE ABILITY TO
302
00:33:49,170 --> 00:33:56,777
SOLVE PROBLEMS.
BUT COMPUTERS OR ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE, THEY DON'T HAVE
CONSCIOUSNESS.
303
00:33:56,844 --> 00:34:01,081
THEY JUST HAVE INTELLIGENCE.
THEY SOLVE PROBLEMS IN A
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAY THAN
US.
304
00:34:01,148 --> 00:34:07,421
NOW, IN SCIENCE FICTION, IT'S
OFTEN ASSUMED THAT AS COMPUTERS
WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE
INTELLIGENT, THEY WILL
305
00:34:07,488 --> 00:34:15,229
INEVITABLY ALSO GAIN
CONSCIOUSNESS.
BUT ACTUALLY, IT'S-- IT'S MUCH
MORE FRIGHTENING THAN THAT; IN A
306
00:34:15,296 --> 00:34:20,501
WAY, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SOLVE
MORE AND MORE PROBLEMS, BETTER
THAN US, WITHOUT HAVING ANY
CONSCIOUSNESS, ANY FEELINGS.
307
00:34:20,568 --> 00:34:25,039
>> Cooper: AND THEY WILL HAVE
POWER OVER US?
>> Harari: THEY ARE ALREADY
GAINING POWER OVER US.
308
00:34:25,105 --> 00:34:31,312
>> Cooper: SOME LENDERS
ROUTINELY USE COMPLEX ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE ALGORITHMS TO
DETERMINE WHO QUALIFIES FOR
309
00:34:31,378 --> 00:34:38,919
LOANS, AND GLOBAL FINANCIAL
MARKETS ARE MOVED BY DECISIONS
MADE BY MACHINES ANALYZING HUGE
AMOUNTS OF DATA IN WAYS EVEN
310
00:34:38,986 --> 00:34:45,759
THEIR PROGRAMMERS DON'T ALWAYS
UNDERSTAND.
HARARI SAYS THE COUNTRIES AND
COMPANIES THAT CONTROL THE MOST
311
00:34:45,826 --> 00:34:51,232
DATA WILL IN THE FUTURE BE THE
ONES THAT CONTROL THE WORLD.
>> Harari: TODAY, IN THE WORLD,
DATA IS WORTH MUCH MORE THAN
312
00:34:51,298 --> 00:34:57,538
MONEY.
TEN YEARS AGO, YOU HAD THESE BIG
CORPORATIONS PAYING BILLIONS AND
BILLIONS FOR WHATSAPP, FOR
313
00:34:57,605 --> 00:35:03,244
INSTAGRAM.
AND PEOPLE WONDERED, "ARE THEY
CRAZY?
WHY DO THEY PAY BILLIONS TO GET
314
00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:09,583
THIS APPLICATION THAT DOESN'T
PRODUCE ANY MONEY?"
AND THE REASON WHY?
BECAUSE IT PRODUCED DATA.
315
00:35:09,650 --> 00:35:17,892
>> Cooper: AND DATA IS THE KEY?
>> Harari: THE WORLD IS
INCREASINGLY KIND OF CUT UP INTO
SPHERES OF-- OF-- OF-- OF DATA
316
00:35:17,958 --> 00:35:23,330
COLLECTION, OF DATA HARVESTING.
IN THE COLD WAR, YOU HAD THE
IRON CURTAIN.
NOW, WE HAVE THE SILICON CURTAIN
317
00:35:23,397 --> 00:35:31,105
BETWEEN THE U.S.A. AND CHINA.
AND WHERE DOES THE DATA GO?
CALIFORNIA.
OR DOES IT GO TO SHENZHEN AND TO
318
00:35:31,171 --> 00:35:37,077
SHANGHAI AND TO BEIJING?
>> Cooper: HARARI IS CONCERNED
THE PANDEMIC HAS OPENED THE DOOR
FOR MORE INTRUSIVE KINDS OF DATA
319
00:35:37,144 --> 00:35:43,083
COLLECTION, INCLUDING BIOMETRIC
DATA.
WHAT IS BIOMETRIC DATA?
>> Harari: IT'S DATA ABOUT
320
00:35:43,150 --> 00:35:50,958
WHAT'S HAPPENING INSIDE MY BODY.
WHAT WE HAVE SEEN SO FAR, IT'S
CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENTS
COLLECTING DATA ABOUT WHERE WE
321
00:35:51,025 --> 00:35:59,233
GO, WHO WE MEET, WHAT MOVIES WE
WATCH.
THE NEXT PHASE IS SURVEILLANCE
GOING UNDER OUR SKIN.
322
00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:05,806
>> Cooper: I'M WEARING A-- LIKE,
A TRACKER, THAT TRACKS MY HEART
RATE, MY SLEEP.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT
323
00:36:05,873 --> 00:36:11,245
INFORMATION IS GOING.
>> Harari: YOU WEAR THE K.G.B.
AGENT ON YOUR WRIST WILLINGLY.
>> Cooper: AND I THINK IT'S
324
00:36:11,312 --> 00:36:16,884
BENEFITING ME.
>> Harari: AND IT IS BENEFITING
YOU.
I MEAN, THE WHOLE THING IS THAT
325
00:36:16,951 --> 00:36:22,523
IT'S NOT JUST DYSTOPIAN, IT'S
ALSO UTOPIAN.
I MEAN, THIS KIND OF DATA CAN
ALSO ENABLE US TO CREATE THE
326
00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:27,328
BEST HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN
HISTORY.
THE QUESTION IS, WHAT ELSE IS
BEING DONE WITH THAT DATA?
327
00:36:27,394 --> 00:36:35,269
AND WHO SUPERVISES IT?
WHO REGULATES IT?
>> Cooper: EARLIER THIS YEAR,
THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT GAVE ITS
328
00:36:35,336 --> 00:36:41,942
CITIZENS' HEALTH DATA TO PFIZER
TO GET PRIORITY ACCESS TO THEIR
VACCINE.
THE DATA DID NOT INCLUDE
329
00:36:42,009 --> 00:36:49,083
INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS' IDENTITIES.
SO, WHAT DOES PFIZER WANT THE
DATA OF ALL ISRAELIS FOR?
>> Harari: BECAUSE, TO DEVELOP
330
00:36:49,149 --> 00:36:57,891
NEW MEDICINES, NEW TREATMENTS,
YOU NEED THE MEDICAL DATA.
INCREASINGLY, THAT'S THE BASIS
FOR HOW-- FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH.
331
00:36:57,958 --> 00:37:03,230
IT'S NOT ALL BAD.
>> Cooper: HARARI HAS BEEN
CRITICIZED FOR POINTING OUT
PROBLEMS WITHOUT OFFERING
332
00:37:03,297 --> 00:37:11,238
SOLUTIONS, BUT HE DOES HAVE SOME
IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO LIMIT THE
MISUSE OF DATA.
>> Harari: ONE KEY RULE IS THAT
333
00:37:11,305 --> 00:37:19,079
IF YOU GET MY DATA, THE DATA
SHOULD BE USED TO HELP ME, AND
NOT TO MANIPULATE ME.
ANOTHER KEY RULE?
334
00:37:19,146 --> 00:37:28,789
THAT WHENEVER YOU INCREASE
SURVEILLANCE OF INDIVIDUALS, YOU
SHOULD SIMULTANEOUSLY INCREASE
SURVEILLANCE OF THE CORPORATION
335
00:37:28,856 --> 00:37:35,262
AND GOVERNMENTS AND THE PEOPLE
AT THE TOP.
AND THE THIRD PRINCIPLE IS THAT,
NEVER ALLOW ALL THE DATA TO BE
336
00:37:35,329 --> 00:37:43,103
CONCENTRATED IN ONE PLACE.
THAT'S THE RECIPE FOR A
DICTATORSHIP.
NETFLIX TELLS US WHAT TO WATCH,
337
00:37:43,170 --> 00:37:51,779
AND AMAZON TELLS US WHAT TO BUY.
EVENTUALLY, WITHIN 10 OR 20 OR
30 YEARS, SUCH ALGORITHMS COULD
ALSO TELL YOU WHAT TO STUDY AT
338
00:37:51,845 --> 00:37:59,720
COLLEGE, AND WHERE TO WORK, AND
WHOM TO MARRY, AND EVEN WHOM TO
VOTE FOR.
>> Cooper: WITHOUT GREATER
339
00:37:59,787 --> 00:38:06,293
REGULATION, HARARI BELIEVES WE
ARE AT RISK OF BECOMING WHAT HE
CALLS "HACKED HUMANS."
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
340
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:13,100
>> Harari: TO HACK A HUMAN BEING
IS TO GET TO KNOW THAT PERSON
BETTER THAN THEY KNOW
THEMSELVES, AND BASED ON THAT,
341
00:38:13,167 --> 00:38:22,309
TO INCREASINGLY MANIPULATE YOU.
THIS OUTSIDE SYSTEM, IT HAS THE
POTENTIAL TO REMEMBER
EVERYTHING-- EVERYTHING YOU EVER
342
00:38:22,376 --> 00:38:31,085
DID, AND TO ANALYZE AND FIND
PATTERNS IN THIS DATA AND TO GET
A MUCH BETTER IDEA OF WHO YOU
REALLY ARE.
343
00:38:31,151 --> 00:38:37,357
I CAME OUT AS GAY WHEN I WAS 21.
IT SHOULD'VE BEEN OBVIOUS TO ME
WHEN I WAS 15 THAT I'M GAY, BUT
SOMETHING IN THE MIND BLOCKED
344
00:38:37,424 --> 00:38:45,532
IT.
NOW, IF YOU THINK ABOUT A
TEENAGER TODAY, FACEBOOK CAN
KNOW THAT THEY ARE GAY, OR
345
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:54,408
AMAZON CAN KNOW THAT THEY ARE
GAY LONG BEFORE THEY DO, JUST
BASED ON ANALYZING PATTERNS.
>> Cooper: AND BASED ON THAT,
346
00:38:54,475 --> 00:38:59,446
YOU CAN TELL SOMEBODY'S SEXUAL
ORIENTATION?
>> Harari: COMPLETELY.
AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN IF YOU
347
00:38:59,513 --> 00:39:06,153
LIVE IN IRAN OR IF YOU LIVE IN
RUSSIA OR IN SOME OTHER
HOMOPHOBIC COUNTRY, AND THE
POLICE KNOW THAT YOU ARE GAY
348
00:39:06,220 --> 00:39:13,093
EVEN BEFORE YOU KNOW IT?
>> Cooper: WHEN PEOPLE THINK
ABOUT DATA, THEY THINK ABOUT
COMPANIES FINDING OUT WHAT THEIR
349
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:20,701
LIKES AND DISLIKES ARE.
BUT THE DATA THAT YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT GOES MUCH DEEPER THAN
THAT?
350
00:39:20,768 --> 00:39:27,241
>> Harari: LIKE, THINK IN 20
YEARS, WHEN THE ENTIRE PERSONAL
HISTORY OF EVERY JOURNALIST,
EVERY JUDGE, EVERY POLITICIAN,
351
00:39:27,307 --> 00:39:35,249
EVERY MILITARY OFFICER, IS HELD
BY SOMEBODY IN BEIJING OR IN
WASHINGTON.
YOUR ABILITY TO MANIPULATE THEM
352
00:39:35,315 --> 00:39:42,055
IS LIKE NOTHING BEFORE IN
HISTORY.
>> Cooper: HARARI LIVES OUTSIDE
TEL AVIV WITH HIS HUSBAND, ITZIK
353
00:39:42,122 --> 00:39:47,227
YAHAV.
THEY HAVE BEEN TOGETHER FOR
NEARLY 20 YEARS.
IT WAS YAHAV WHO READ HARARI'S
354
00:39:47,294 --> 00:39:54,601
LECTURE NOTES FOR A HISTORY
COURSE AND CONVINCED HIM TO TURN
THEM INTO HIS FIRST BOOK,
"SAPIENS."
355
00:39:54,668 --> 00:39:59,373
>> Itzik Yahav: I READ THE
LESSONS; I COULDN'T STOP TALKING
ABOUT IT.
FOR ME, IT WAS CLEAR THAT IT
356
00:39:59,439 --> 00:40:07,181
COULD BE A HUGE BESTSELLER.
>> Cooper: YAHAV IS NOW HARARI'S
AGENT, AND TOGETHER THEY STARTED
A COMPANY CALLED SAPIENSHIP.
357
00:40:07,247 --> 00:40:14,087
THEY ARE CREATING AN INTERACTIVE
EXHIBIT THAT WILL TAKE VISITORS
THROUGH THE HISTORY OF HUMAN
EVOLUTION, AND CHALLENGE THEM TO
358
00:40:14,154 --> 00:40:21,562
THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF
MANKIND.
HARARI ALSO JUST PUBLISHED THE
SCOND INSTALLMENT OF A GRAPHIC
359
00:40:21,628 --> 00:40:27,100
NOVEL BASED ON "SAPIENS," AND
HE'S TEACHING COURSES AT
ISRAEL'S HEBREW UNIVERSITY IN
ETHICS AND PHILOSOPHY FOR
360
00:40:27,167 --> 00:40:34,341
COMPUTER SCIENTISTS AND BIO-
ENGINEERS.
>> Harari: WHEN PEOPLE WRITE
CODE, THEY ARE RESHAPING
361
00:40:34,408 --> 00:40:39,546
POLITICS AND ECONOMICS AND
ETHICS, AND THE STRUCTURE OF
HUMAN SOCIETY.
>> Cooper: WHEN I THINK OF
362
00:40:39,613 --> 00:40:47,221
CODERS AND ENGINEERS, I DON'T
THINK OF PHILOSOPHERS AND POETS.
>> Harari: IT'S NOT THE CASE
NOW, BUT IT SHOULD BE THE CASE,
363
00:40:47,287 --> 00:40:55,095
BECAUSE THEY ARE INCREASINGLY
SOLVING PHILOSOPHICAL AND
POETICAL RIDDLES.
IF YOU'RE DESIGNING, YOU KNOW, A
364
00:40:55,162 --> 00:41:03,237
SELF-DRIVING CAR, SO, THE
SELF-DRIVING CAR WILL NEED TO
MAKE ETHICAL DECISIONS LIKE,
SUDDENLY, A KID JUMPS IN FRONT
365
00:41:03,303 --> 00:41:10,744
OF THE CAR AND THE ONLY WAY TO--
TO-- TO PREVENT RUNNING OVER THE
KID IS TO SWERVE TO THE SIDE AND
BE HIT BY A TRUCK, AND YOUR OWN-
366
00:41:10,811 --> 00:41:17,184
- OWNER, WHO IS ASLEEP IN THE
BACK SEAT, WILL-- MIGHT BE
KILLED.
YOU NEED TO TELL THE ALGORITHM
367
00:41:17,251 --> 00:41:22,723
WHAT TO DO IN THIS SITUATION.
SO, YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY SOLVE
THE PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION, WHO
TO KILL.
368
00:41:22,789 --> 00:41:27,527
>> Cooper: LAST MONTH, THE
UNITED NATIONS SUGGESTED A
MORATORIUM ON ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS THAT
369
00:41:27,594 --> 00:41:35,269
SERIOUSLY THREATEN HUMAN RIGHTS
UNTIL SAFEGUARDS ARE AGREED
UPON, AND ADVISERS TO PRESIDENT
BIDEN ARE PROPOSING WHAT THEY
370
00:41:35,335 --> 00:41:42,743
CALL A "BILL OF RIGHTS" TO GUARD
AGAINST SOME OF THE NEW
TECHNOLOGIES.
HARARI SAYS JUST AS HOMO SAPIENS
371
00:41:42,809 --> 00:41:49,082
LEARNED TO COOPERATE WITH EACH
OTHER MANY THOUSANDS OF YEARS
AGO, WE NEED TO COOPERATE NOW.
>> Harari: CERTAINLY.
372
00:41:49,149 --> 00:41:54,354
NOW, WE ARE AT THE POINT WHEN WE
NEED GLOBAL COOPERATION.
YOU CANNOT REGULATE THE
EXPLOSIVE POWER OF ARTIFICIAL
373
00:41:54,421 --> 00:42:01,094
INTELLIGENCE ON A NATIONAL
LEVEL.
I'M NOT TRYING TO KIND OF
PROPHESY WHAT WILL HAPPEN; I'M
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00:42:01,161 --> 00:42:07,367
TRYING TO WARN PEOPLE ABOUT THE
MOST DANGEROUS POSSIBILITIES IN
THE HOPE THAT WE WILL DO
SOMETHING IN THE PRESENT TO
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PREVENT THEM.
( TICKING )
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00:42:18,478 --> 00:42:23,016
>> Stahl: NOW, AN UPDATE ON A
STORY WE REPORTED EARLIER THIS
MONTH.
SCOTT PELLEY SPOKE WITH FRANCES
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00:42:23,083 --> 00:42:32,359
HAUGEN, THE UP-TO-THEN-ANONYMOUS
FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER.
WHEN SHE LEFT THE COMPANY, SHE
TOOK TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PAGES
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00:42:32,426 --> 00:42:38,365
OF INTERNAL RESEARCH WITH HER.
>> Pelley: MISINFORMATION, ANGRY
CONTENT IS ENTICING TO PEOPLE
AND KEEP...
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00:42:38,432 --> 00:42:42,803
>> Haugen: VERY ENTICING.
>> Pelley: ...KEEPS THEM ON THE
PLATFORM.
>> Haugen: YES.
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00:42:42,869 --> 00:42:49,242
>> Stahl: SINCE THEN, SHE HAS
TESTIFIED BEFORE THE SENATE AND
THE BRITISH PARLIAMENT.
IN NOVEMBER, SHE MEETS WITH THE
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00:42:49,309 --> 00:42:58,285
EUROPEAN UNION.
MORE THAN 18 NEWS ORGANIZATIONS,
INCLUDING CBS NEWS, HAVE JOINED
IN EXAMINING THE RESEARCH, AND
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00:42:58,352 --> 00:43:06,393
CONGRESS IS LOOKING AT POSSIBLE
REGULATIONS LIMITING HOW SOCIAL
MEDIA MAY HARM YOUNG USERS.
I'M LESLEY STAHL.
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WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH