1 00:00:00,710 --> 00:00:01,310 and FORD. 2 00:00:01,377 --> 00:00:02,545 We go further, so you can. 3 00:00:06,649 --> 00:00:10,553 >> THIS MAN SAYS PRINCE MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN, THE RULER OF SAUDIA 4 00:00:10,620 --> 00:00:14,557 ARABIA, SENT AN ASSASSINATION TEAM TO KILL HIM, JUST AS THE 5 00:00:14,624 --> 00:00:17,827 PRINCE DID FOR JAMAL KHASHOGGI. 6 00:00:17,894 --> 00:00:26,569 >> I AM HERE TO SOUND THE ALARM ABOUT A PSYCHOPATH, KILLER, IN 7 00:00:26,636 --> 00:00:33,309 THE MIDDLE EAST, WITH INFINITE RESOURCES, WHO POSES THREAT TO 8 00:00:33,376 --> 00:00:35,812 HIS PEOPLE, TO THE AMERICANS, AND TO THE PLANET. 9 00:00:35,878 --> 00:00:38,548 >> HOW DID HE ESCAPE? 10 00:00:38,614 --> 00:00:40,016 AND WHY IS HE GOING PUBLIC? 11 00:00:40,082 --> 00:00:40,917 THAT'S OUR STORY TONIGHT. 12 00:00:40,983 --> 00:00:41,818 ( TICKING ) >> WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE MAIN 13 00:00:46,589 --> 00:00:50,126 WATER SOURCE FOR THE SOUTHWEST BEGINS TO RUN DRY? 14 00:00:50,193 --> 00:00:53,830 THE COLORADO RIVER SERVES 40 MILLION PEOPLE THEIR DRINKING 15 00:00:53,896 --> 00:00:58,568 WATER, POWERS THEIR HOMES, AND IRRIGATES 90% OF THE NATION'S 16 00:00:58,634 --> 00:00:59,802 WINTER FARMED GREENS. 17 00:00:59,869 --> 00:01:04,607 TO ALL OF THOSE DEMANDS, ADD THE STRESS OF A 22-YEAR DROUGHT, AND 18 00:01:04,674 --> 00:01:09,145 YOU HAVE THE MAKINGS OF A CRISIS. 19 00:01:09,212 --> 00:01:10,913 THESE WHITE BATHTUB RINGS, IS THIS WHERE THE WATER USED TO BE? 20 00:01:10,980 --> 00:01:11,881 >> ABSOLUTELY. 21 00:01:11,948 --> 00:01:17,119 ( TICKING ) >> I'M BATMAN. 22 00:01:17,186 --> 00:01:18,621 >> HE'S PLAYED BATMAN, AND BIRDMAN, AND STARRED IN 23 00:01:18,688 --> 00:01:20,823 "SPIDER-MAN." 24 00:01:20,890 --> 00:01:22,658 THE IRONY IS THAT MICHAEL KEATON'S REAL SUPER POWER IS 25 00:01:22,725 --> 00:01:23,893 PORTRAYING THE EVERY-MAN. 26 00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:26,629 >> YEAH, 22O-221, WHATEVER IT TAKES. 27 00:01:26,696 --> 00:01:30,633 >> THE SALESMAN, THE F.B.I. MAN, THE PUT-UPON NEWSPAPERMAN. 28 00:01:30,700 --> 00:01:34,637 AN ACTOR ON A CAREER-LONG CRUSADE AGAINST TYPECASTING, 29 00:01:34,704 --> 00:01:37,206 KEATON IS WILLFULLY UNPREDICTABLE IN CHOOSING HIS 30 00:01:37,273 --> 00:01:38,641 ROLES. 31 00:01:38,708 --> 00:01:40,209 >> PEOPLE TALK ABOUT RANGE. 32 00:01:40,276 --> 00:01:41,878 THERE'S-- YOU KNOW, IT'S-- FLATTERING. 33 00:01:41,944 --> 00:01:44,614 BUT RANGE DOESN'T REALLY-- RANGE, SCHMANGE. 34 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:44,881 YOU KNOW? 35 00:01:44,947 --> 00:01:47,884 ( TICKING ) >> I'M LESLEY STAHL. 36 00:01:47,950 --> 00:01:50,386 >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. 37 00:01:50,453 --> 00:01:50,887 >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. 38 00:01:50,953 --> 00:01:53,890 >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. 39 00:01:53,956 --> 00:01:54,624 >> I'M JON WERTHEIM. 40 00:01:54,690 --> 00:01:56,359 >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. 41 00:01:56,425 --> 00:01:58,628 THOSE STORIES AND MORE, TONIGHT, ON "60 MINUTES." 42 00:01:58,694 --> 00:02:01,931 ( TICKING ) 43 00:02:06,068 --> 00:02:06,502 >> Scott Pelley: MUCH OF THE 44 00:02:06,569 --> 00:02:10,506 WORLD WAS HORRIFIED WHEN SAUDI ARABIA SENT A HIT SQUAD TO 45 00:02:10,573 --> 00:02:15,211 TURKEY TO MURDER "WASHINGTON POST" COLUMNIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI. 46 00:02:15,278 --> 00:02:18,514 TONIGHT, THE MAN YOU ARE ABOUT TO MEET SAYS A SECOND SAUDI 47 00:02:18,581 --> 00:02:23,219 ASSASSINATION TEAM WAS SENT TO KILL HIM IN CANADA. 48 00:02:23,286 --> 00:02:27,223 SAAD ALJABRI WAS NUMBER TWO IN SAUDI INTELLIGENCE, AND HE WAS 49 00:02:27,290 --> 00:02:30,960 AMONG THE BEST FRIENDS AMERICA HAD AGAINST TERRORISM. 50 00:02:31,027 --> 00:02:35,231 NOW, SAAD IS ASKING AMERICA'S HELP. 51 00:02:35,298 --> 00:02:38,534 TRUTH IS HARD TO TRIANGULATE AMONG SPIES, DESPOTS, AND THE 52 00:02:38,601 --> 00:02:39,235 MIDDLE EAST. 53 00:02:39,302 --> 00:02:43,272 YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR THAT SAAD ALJABRI MAY NOT BE SPOTLESS. 54 00:02:43,339 --> 00:02:48,511 BUT AS A SPYMASTER, SAAD SAYS HE HAS ONE MORE FAVOR FOR AMERICA: 55 00:02:48,578 --> 00:02:54,450 A WARNING ABOUT A PRINCE, WITH THE POWER TO TROUBLE THE WORLD. 56 00:02:54,517 --> 00:03:00,556 >> Dr. Saad Aljabri: I AM HERE TO SOUND THE ALARM ABOUT A 57 00:03:00,623 --> 00:03:06,562 PSYCHOPATH, KILLER, IN THE MIDDLE EAST, WITH INFINITE 58 00:03:06,629 --> 00:03:11,300 RESOURCES, WHO POSES THREAT TO HIS PEOPLE, TO THE AMERICANS, 59 00:03:11,367 --> 00:03:15,304 AND TO THE PLANET. 60 00:03:15,371 --> 00:03:18,574 >> Pelley: SAAD ALJABRI IS TALKING ABOUT MOHAMMED BIN 61 00:03:18,641 --> 00:03:23,279 SALMAN, WHO SEIZED POWER BEHIND THE BACK OF THE MAN GREETING 62 00:03:23,346 --> 00:03:24,580 PRESIDENT OBAMA. 63 00:03:24,647 --> 00:03:30,586 THAT'S MOHAMMED BIN NAYEF, THEN HEIR TO THE THRONE. 64 00:03:30,653 --> 00:03:35,291 BUT IN 2017, NAYEF WAS ARRESTED BY PRINCE MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN. 65 00:03:35,358 --> 00:03:36,559 A PSYCHOPATH? 66 00:03:36,626 --> 00:03:42,498 >> Saad Aljabri: A PSYCHOPATH WITH NO EMPATHY. 67 00:03:42,565 --> 00:03:47,303 DOESN'T FEEL EMOTION, NEVER LEARNED FROM HIS EXPERIENCE. 68 00:03:47,370 --> 00:03:53,576 AND WE HAVE WITNESSED ATROCITIES AND CRIMES COMMITTED BY THIS 69 00:03:53,643 --> 00:03:54,577 KILLER. 70 00:03:54,644 --> 00:03:55,277 >> Pelley: A SOURCE FROM U.S. 71 00:03:55,344 --> 00:03:59,281 INTELLIGENCE TOLD US, SAAD ALJABRI WOULD NEVER SHOW UP FOR 72 00:03:59,348 --> 00:04:00,650 THIS INTERVIEW. 73 00:04:00,716 --> 00:04:05,955 HE'D LIVED TOO LONG IN A SILENT PROFESSION. 74 00:04:06,022 --> 00:04:09,558 THE FACT THAT HE DID SHOW UP IS A MEASURE OF HIS DESPERATION. 75 00:04:09,625 --> 00:04:12,628 SAAD IS 62, MARRIED, EIGHT CHILDREN. 76 00:04:12,695 --> 00:04:18,634 HE STARTED AS A COP, BUT ROSE TO THE TOP OF SAUDI INTELLIGENCE 77 00:04:18,701 --> 00:04:23,105 AND EARNED A Ph.D IN THE SCIENCE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. 78 00:04:23,172 --> 00:04:27,276 HE COULD BE SEEN IN THE OVAL OFFICE, WITH AMERICAN 79 00:04:27,343 --> 00:04:30,112 AMBASSADORS, THE U.S. MILITARY COMMAND, AND WITH MICHAEL 80 00:04:30,179 --> 00:04:32,782 MORELL, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE C.I.A. 81 00:04:32,848 --> 00:04:36,652 >> Michael Morell: I'M A BIG ADMIRER. 82 00:04:36,719 --> 00:04:39,355 I FOUND DR. SAAD TO BE EXTRAORDINARILY BRIGHT. 83 00:04:39,422 --> 00:04:42,591 I FOUND HIM TO BE INCREDIBLY LOYAL TO HIS COUNTRY. 84 00:04:42,658 --> 00:04:44,326 >> Pelley: WOULD YOU SAY HONORABLE? 85 00:04:44,393 --> 00:04:47,430 >> Morell: HONORABLE, YES, ABSOLUTELY. 86 00:04:47,496 --> 00:04:53,035 >> Pelley: BUT IN 2017, SAAD FOUND HIMSELF ON THE WRONG SIDE 87 00:04:53,102 --> 00:04:53,836 OF PRINCE MOHAMMED'S COUP. 88 00:04:53,903 --> 00:04:58,074 THE DEPOSED PRINCE NAYEF WAS SAAD'S BOSS. 89 00:04:58,140 --> 00:05:00,710 SAAD FLED TO CANADA, WHERE HE REMAINS, AND REFUSES TO RETURN. 90 00:05:00,776 --> 00:05:06,716 NOW, PRINCE MOHAMMED IS MAKING SAAD'S FAMILY PAY. 91 00:05:06,782 --> 00:05:10,886 THE VERY DAY OF THE COUP, TWO OF HIS CHILDREN WERE BARRED FROM 92 00:05:10,953 --> 00:05:11,420 LEAVING THE KINGDOM. 93 00:05:11,487 --> 00:05:15,424 THIS IS HIS DAUGHTER, SARAH. 94 00:05:15,491 --> 00:05:20,696 >> ♪ HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU ♪ >> Pelley: AND HIS SON OMAR. 95 00:05:20,763 --> 00:05:23,432 BOTH PLANNED TO BE IN AMERICAN COLLEGES. 96 00:05:23,499 --> 00:05:27,236 THEY ARE NOW IN SAUDI PRISONS. 97 00:05:27,303 --> 00:05:28,471 NEXT, THE FAMILY SAYS, PRINCE MOHAMMED TARGETED SAAD'S 98 00:05:28,537 --> 00:05:30,873 SON-IN-LAW. 99 00:05:30,940 --> 00:05:35,411 THEY CLAIM THE SON-IN-LAW WAS KIDNAPPED IN A THIRD COUNTRY AND 100 00:05:35,478 --> 00:05:36,712 RETURNED TO THE KINGDOM. 101 00:05:36,779 --> 00:05:39,815 >> Khalid Aljabri: THE FIRST NIGHT HE WAS KIDNAPPED, HE 102 00:05:39,882 --> 00:05:42,718 RECEIVED MORE THAN 100 LASHES. 103 00:05:42,785 --> 00:05:44,754 HE WAS TORTURED. 104 00:05:44,820 --> 00:05:47,423 HE WAS BEATEN ON HIS BACK, ON HIS LEGS. 105 00:05:47,490 --> 00:05:51,227 >> Pelley: KHALID ALJABRI IS SAAD'S ELDEST SON. 106 00:05:51,293 --> 00:05:54,663 WHAT WAS HE TOLD HE WAS BEING DETAINED FOR? 107 00:05:54,730 --> 00:05:57,867 >> Khalid Aljabri: HE WAS BEING TOLD THAT HE WAS DETAINED AND 108 00:05:57,933 --> 00:06:00,736 TORTURED AS A PROXY FOR HIS FATHER-IN-LAW, MEANING MY DAD. 109 00:06:00,803 --> 00:06:05,107 THEY EVEN ASKED HIM A QUESTION, "WHO DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD 110 00:06:05,174 --> 00:06:08,611 ARREST AND TORTURE, SO DR. SAAD CAN COME BACK TO THE KINGDOM?" 111 00:06:08,677 --> 00:06:11,847 >> Pelley: THEIR STORY RECALLS "WASHINGTON POST" COLUMNIST 112 00:06:11,914 --> 00:06:17,887 JAMAL KHASHOGGI, A CRITIC OF PRINCE MOHAMMED. 113 00:06:17,953 --> 00:06:22,992 IN 2018, A YEAR AFTER HIS COUP, U.S. INTELLIGENCE SAYS PRINCE 114 00:06:23,058 --> 00:06:24,794 MOHAMMAD SENT A TEAM TO TURKEY TO LURE KHASHOGGI TO A SAUDI 115 00:06:24,860 --> 00:06:30,399 CONSULATE AND DISMEMBER HIM. 116 00:06:30,466 --> 00:06:33,636 SAAD TOLD US THAT, DAYS LATER, BEFORE KHASHOGGI'S MURDER WAS 117 00:06:33,702 --> 00:06:36,806 KNOWN TO THE PUBLIC, HE RECEIVED A WARNING. 118 00:06:36,872 --> 00:06:39,909 A FRIEND IN A MIDDLE EASTERN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE SAID 119 00:06:39,975 --> 00:06:46,015 ANOTHER HIT TEAM WAS HEADED FOR SAAD IN CANADA. 120 00:06:46,081 --> 00:06:47,716 >> Saad Aljabri: AND THE WARNING I RECEIVED, "DON'T BE IN A 121 00:06:47,783 --> 00:06:50,386 PROXIMITY OF ANY SAUDI MISSION IN CANADA. 122 00:06:50,452 --> 00:06:51,187 DON'T GO TO THE CONSULATE. 123 00:06:51,253 --> 00:06:51,720 DON'T GO TO THE EMBASSY." 124 00:06:51,787 --> 00:06:54,256 I SAID, WHY? 125 00:06:54,323 --> 00:06:58,661 SAID, THEY DISMEMBERED THE GUY, THEY KILL HIM. 126 00:06:58,727 --> 00:06:59,495 YOU ARE ON THE TOP OF THE LIST. 127 00:06:59,562 --> 00:07:03,566 >> Pelley: SAAD SAYS A SIX-PERSON TEAM LANDED AT THE 128 00:07:03,632 --> 00:07:06,869 OTTAWA AIRPORT IN MID-OCTOBER 2018. 129 00:07:06,936 --> 00:07:11,540 HE SAYS, MEMBERS OF THE TEAM LIED TO CUSTOMS ABOUT KNOWING 130 00:07:11,607 --> 00:07:13,375 ONE ANOTHER, AND THEY CARRIED SUSPICIOUS EQUIPMENT FOR D.N.A. 131 00:07:13,442 --> 00:07:15,544 ANALYSIS. 132 00:07:15,611 --> 00:07:18,848 THE TEAM WAS DEPORTED. 133 00:07:18,914 --> 00:07:23,552 CANADA SEEMS TO CONFIRM AT LEAST PART OF THIS STORY, SAYING, "WE 134 00:07:23,619 --> 00:07:27,556 ARE AWARE OF INCIDENTS IN WHICH FOREIGN ACTORS HAVE ATTEMPTED TO 135 00:07:27,623 --> 00:07:30,860 THREATEN THOSE LIVING IN CANADA. 136 00:07:30,926 --> 00:07:31,560 IT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE." 137 00:07:31,627 --> 00:07:35,130 IS THAT THE WAY INTELLIGENCE ORGANIZATIONS WORK IN THIS 138 00:07:35,197 --> 00:07:35,564 WORLD? 139 00:07:35,631 --> 00:07:39,568 >> Morell: IT'S NOT A NORM IN THIS WORLD. 140 00:07:39,635 --> 00:07:43,272 IT'S A NORM FOR COUNTRIES LIKE RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA; IT'S NOT 141 00:07:43,339 --> 00:07:47,543 A NORM FOR ALMOST ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. 142 00:07:47,610 --> 00:07:51,046 >> Pelley: DO YOU THINK MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN FEARS YOU? 143 00:07:51,113 --> 00:07:54,850 >> Saad Aljabri: HE FEARS MY INFORMATION. 144 00:07:54,917 --> 00:07:59,555 >> Pelley: SAAD TOLD US HIS INFORMATION INCLUDES A 2014 145 00:07:59,622 --> 00:08:03,225 MEETING BETWEEN PRINCE MOHAMMED, ON THE LEFT, AND THE THEN-HEAD 146 00:08:03,292 --> 00:08:06,128 OF INTELLIGENCE, MOHAMMED BIN NAYEF. 147 00:08:06,195 --> 00:08:11,500 IT WAS THREE YEARS BEFORE THE COUP. 148 00:08:11,567 --> 00:08:15,638 SAAD CLAIMS THE YOUNG PRINCE BOASTED TO NAYEF THAT HE COULD 149 00:08:15,704 --> 00:08:18,908 KILL THE SITTING KING, ABDULLAH, TO CLEAR THE THRONE FOR HIS OWN 150 00:08:18,974 --> 00:08:21,744 FATHER. 151 00:08:21,810 --> 00:08:23,612 >> Saad Aljabri: AND HE TOLD HIM, I WANT TO ASSASSINATE KING 152 00:08:23,679 --> 00:08:24,914 ABDULLAH. 153 00:08:24,980 --> 00:08:27,616 I GET A POISON RING FROM RUSSIA. 154 00:08:27,683 --> 00:08:30,920 IT'S ENOUGH FOR ME JUST TO SHAKE HAND WITH HIM, AND HE WILL BE 155 00:08:30,986 --> 00:08:31,553 DONE. 156 00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:35,157 >> Pelley: A POISON RING FROM RUSSIA? 157 00:08:35,224 --> 00:08:36,926 >> Saad Aljabri: THAT WHAT HE SAY. 158 00:08:36,992 --> 00:08:39,228 WHETHER HE'S JUST BRAGGING, OR? 159 00:08:39,295 --> 00:08:42,932 BUT HE SAID THAT, AND WE TOOK IT SERIOUSLY. 160 00:08:42,998 --> 00:08:45,834 >> Pelley: BY "WE," SAAD MEANS SAUDI INTELLIGENCE TOOK IT 161 00:08:45,901 --> 00:08:47,636 SERIOUSLY. 162 00:08:47,703 --> 00:08:51,640 THE ALLEGED THREAT, HE SAYS, WAS HANDLED WITHIN THE ROYAL FAMILY. 163 00:08:51,707 --> 00:08:55,411 SAAD TOLD US HE WATCHED THE MEETING ON A VIDEO RECORDING. 164 00:08:55,477 --> 00:08:58,013 DOES THIS VIDEO RECORDING STILL EXIST? 165 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,615 >> Saad Aljabri: YES. 166 00:08:59,682 --> 00:09:00,749 I KNOW WHERE IT IS NOW. 167 00:09:00,816 --> 00:09:03,686 I KNOW THERE ARE TWO COPIES OF THAT. 168 00:09:03,752 --> 00:09:06,989 I KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. 169 00:09:07,056 --> 00:09:11,694 >> Pelley: PRINCE MOHAMMED IS 36, AND WIELDS UNLIMITED POWER 170 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,698 ON BEHALF OF HIS AILING 85-YEAR-OLD FATHER, KING SALMAN. 171 00:09:15,764 --> 00:09:19,668 THE PRINCE IS ADMIRED BY SOME FOR ALLOWING WOMEN TO DRIVE, 172 00:09:19,735 --> 00:09:24,206 PERMITTING MOVIE THEATERS, AND DISBANDING THE RELIGIOUS POLICE 173 00:09:24,273 --> 00:09:27,676 WHO ONCE ASSAULTED COUPLES FOR HOLDING HANDS. 174 00:09:27,743 --> 00:09:31,080 >> Morell: THERE'S TWO GROUPS OF PEOPLE IN SAUDI ARABIA. 175 00:09:31,146 --> 00:09:37,019 THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE VERY HAPPY WITH MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN. 176 00:09:37,086 --> 00:09:42,992 THE 70% OF THE POPULATION THAT IS UNDER 30. 177 00:09:43,058 --> 00:09:46,829 HE IS NOT POPULAR WITH THE OLD GUARD, WITH THE ROYAL FAMILY, 178 00:09:46,895 --> 00:09:47,696 BECAUSE HE CHANGED THE SYSTEM. 179 00:09:47,763 --> 00:09:50,733 >> Pelley: BUT MUCH OF THAT CHANGE HAS BEEN RECKLESS. 180 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:55,671 HIS WAR IN YEMEN HAS KILLED THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS IN WHAT 181 00:09:55,738 --> 00:09:59,675 THE U.N. SAYS MAY BE WAR CRIMES. 182 00:09:59,742 --> 00:10:02,444 HE INVITED LEBANON'S LEADER TO VISIT SAUDI ARABIA, TOOK HIM 183 00:10:02,511 --> 00:10:06,248 HOSTAGE, AND FORCED HIM TO RESIGN. 184 00:10:06,315 --> 00:10:10,152 HE DETAINED HUNDREDS OF POTENTIAL RIVALS UNTIL THEY 185 00:10:10,219 --> 00:10:13,022 SIGNED OVER THEIR WEALTH, JAILED WOMEN CALLING FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, 186 00:10:13,088 --> 00:10:15,691 AND MURDERED JAMAL KHASHOGGI. 187 00:10:15,758 --> 00:10:19,695 >> Saad Aljabri: I EXPECT TO BE KILLED ONE DAY, BECAUSE THIS GUY 188 00:10:19,762 --> 00:10:23,732 WILL NOT REST OFF UNTIL HE SEE ME DEAD. 189 00:10:23,799 --> 00:10:27,703 >> Pelley: BUT WHAT DOES AMERICA OWE SAAD ALJABRI? 190 00:10:27,770 --> 00:10:31,673 WE ASKED FORMER C.I.A. ACTING DIRECTOR AND CBS NEWS 191 00:10:31,740 --> 00:10:35,677 CONSULTANT, MICHAEL MORELL, WHO WORKED CLOSELY WITH SAAD FROM 192 00:10:35,744 --> 00:10:39,681 2010 TO 2013. 193 00:10:39,748 --> 00:10:47,222 IS IT TOO MUCH TO SAY THAT SAAD MAY HAVE SAVED AMERICAN LIVES? 194 00:10:47,289 --> 00:10:49,024 >> Morell: HE ABSOLUTELY-- DR. SAAD ABSOLUTELY SAVED 195 00:10:49,091 --> 00:10:50,192 AMERICAN LIVES. 196 00:10:50,259 --> 00:10:51,693 HE SAVED SAUDI LIVES, MANY OF THEM, AND HE SAVED AMERICAN 197 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,462 LIVES. 198 00:10:53,529 --> 00:10:54,997 >> Pelley: CAN YOU NAME ANY OF THOSE CASES? 199 00:10:55,064 --> 00:10:58,901 >> Morell: THE ONE I CAN TALK ABOUT IS THE SO-CALLED PRINTER 200 00:10:58,967 --> 00:10:59,635 CARTRIDGE PLOT. 201 00:10:59,701 --> 00:11:03,772 >> Pelley: IN 2010, AL-QAEDA HID BOMBS IN TWO DESKTOP PRINTERS. 202 00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:10,079 THEY WERE IN THE AIR, AS CARGO, HEADED TO THE U.S. ON TWO 203 00:11:10,145 --> 00:11:13,082 PLANES, PERHAPS INTENDED TO EXPLODE OVER AMERICAN CITIES. 204 00:11:13,148 --> 00:11:17,653 BUT THANKS TO INTELLIGENCE RELAYED BY SAAD ALJABRI, THE 205 00:11:17,719 --> 00:11:21,790 BOMBS WERE INTERCEPTED DURING LAYOVERS. 206 00:11:21,857 --> 00:11:23,859 ARE THERE ANY OTHER EXAMPLES OF TIMES THAT SAAD HAD SAVED 207 00:11:23,926 --> 00:11:25,060 AMERICAN LIVES? 208 00:11:25,127 --> 00:11:27,262 >> Morell: THERE ARE. 209 00:11:27,329 --> 00:11:27,796 >> Pelley: WHAT ARE THEY? 210 00:11:27,863 --> 00:11:30,799 >> Morell: I CAN'T TALK ABOUT THEM, BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL 211 00:11:30,866 --> 00:11:31,100 CLASSIFIED. 212 00:11:31,166 --> 00:11:33,702 >> Pelley: ARE THERE SEVERAL? 213 00:11:33,769 --> 00:11:35,771 >> Morell: THERE ARE MANY. 214 00:11:35,838 --> 00:11:39,775 MANY. 215 00:11:39,842 --> 00:11:43,078 >> Pelley: WHILE WORKING IN THAT CLASSIFIED WORLD, SAAD ALJABRI 216 00:11:43,145 --> 00:11:45,814 BECAME ENORMOUSLY WEALTHY. 217 00:11:45,881 --> 00:11:49,084 PRINCE MOHAMMED TYPICALLY ACCUSES POTENTIAL RIVALS OF 218 00:11:49,151 --> 00:11:55,090 CORRUPTION, AND SAUDI ENTITIES ARE SUING SAAD IN THE U.S. AND 219 00:11:55,157 --> 00:11:59,361 CANADA, CLAIMING HE STOLE AS MUCH AS $500 MILLION FROM THE 220 00:11:59,428 --> 00:11:59,895 COUNTER-TERRORISM BUDGET. 221 00:11:59,962 --> 00:12:01,130 DID YOU STEAL THE MONEY? 222 00:12:01,196 --> 00:12:03,832 >> Saad Aljabri: NO. 223 00:12:03,899 --> 00:12:07,136 >> Pelley: IF YOU DIDN'T STEAL THE MONEY, HOW DID YOU GET SO 224 00:12:07,202 --> 00:12:07,836 RICH? 225 00:12:07,903 --> 00:12:15,811 >> Saad Aljabri: YOU KNOW, I HAVE SERVED A ROYAL MONARCHY IN 226 00:12:15,878 --> 00:12:19,248 A CLOSE PROXIMITY FOR TWO DECADES. 227 00:12:19,314 --> 00:12:23,118 THREE KINGS, FOUR CROWN PRINCE. 228 00:12:23,185 --> 00:12:23,819 THEY'VE BEEN NICE TO ME. 229 00:12:23,886 --> 00:12:26,188 THEY'VE BEEN VERY GENEROUS. 230 00:12:26,255 --> 00:12:28,857 IT'S A TRADITION IN SAUDI ARABIA ROYAL FAMILY. 231 00:12:28,924 --> 00:12:35,397 THEY TAKE CARE OF PEOPLE AROUND THEM. 232 00:12:35,464 --> 00:12:37,099 >> Morell: I DON'T KNOW IF DR. SAAD WAS CORRUPT IN ANY WAY. 233 00:12:37,166 --> 00:12:41,670 I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF HE WASN'T, BECAUSE HE'S SUCH AN 234 00:12:41,737 --> 00:12:43,138 HONORABLE MAN. 235 00:12:43,205 --> 00:12:46,975 BUT I ALSO WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF HE WAS, BECAUSE EVERYBODY, TO 236 00:12:47,042 --> 00:12:49,144 SOME EXTENT, HAD THEIR HAND IN THE KITTY. 237 00:12:49,211 --> 00:12:54,950 AND KING ABDULLAH ALLOWED IT, PERMITTED IT. 238 00:12:55,017 --> 00:12:59,421 >> Pelley: BUT IN THE SAUDI LAWSUIT AGAINST SAAD, THE 239 00:12:59,488 --> 00:13:03,525 CANADIAN JUDGE HAS SAID THERE IS "OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF 240 00:13:03,592 --> 00:13:06,995 FRAUD," AND SO SHE HAS FROZEN HIS ASSETS AS THE CASE MOVES 241 00:13:07,062 --> 00:13:07,229 FORWARD. 242 00:13:07,296 --> 00:13:13,202 THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT DECLINED AN INTERVIEW, BUT IN A STATEMENT, 243 00:13:13,268 --> 00:13:16,438 IT SAID, "SAAD ALJABRI IS A DISCREDITED FORMER GOVERNMENT 244 00:13:16,505 --> 00:13:19,208 OFFICIAL WITH A LONG HISTORY OF FABRICATING AND CREATING 245 00:13:19,274 --> 00:13:23,879 DISTRACTIONS TO HIDE THE FINANCIAL CRIMES HE COMMITTED. 246 00:13:23,946 --> 00:13:27,883 HE IMPLIES THAT STEALING WAS ACCEPTABLE AT THE TIME. 247 00:13:27,950 --> 00:13:33,855 BUT IT WASN'T ACCEPTABLE NOR LEGAL THEN, AND IT ISN'T NOW." 248 00:13:33,922 --> 00:13:37,192 SAAD SAYS HE'S THINKING ONLY OF HIS IMPRISONED CHILDREN. 249 00:13:37,259 --> 00:13:39,895 >> Saad Aljabri: I HAVE TO SPEAK OUT. 250 00:13:39,962 --> 00:13:43,565 I AM APPEALING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND TO THE AMERICAN 251 00:13:43,632 --> 00:13:47,903 ADMINISTRATION TO HELP ME TO RELEASE THOSE CHILDREN AND TO 252 00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:50,706 RESTORE THEIR LIFE. 253 00:13:50,772 --> 00:13:54,476 >> Pelley: SAAD ALJABRI TOLD US HE'S RECORDED A "DEATH VIDEO" 254 00:13:54,543 --> 00:13:55,911 THAT REVEALS MORE SECRETS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY, AND SOME OF THE 255 00:13:55,978 --> 00:13:59,881 UNITED STATES. 256 00:13:59,948 --> 00:14:03,952 HE GAVE US A SHORT, SILENT CLIP OF THE VIDEO WHICH, HE TOLD US, 257 00:14:04,019 --> 00:14:07,289 "COULD BE RELEASED" IF HE IS KILLED. 258 00:14:07,356 --> 00:14:11,960 IT INCLUDES A MESSAGE TO OMAR AND SARAH, HIS IMPRISONED 259 00:14:12,027 --> 00:14:13,295 CHILDREN. 260 00:14:13,362 --> 00:14:19,001 >> Saad Aljabri: I TOLD THEM, I'M SORRY. 261 00:14:19,067 --> 00:14:19,368 I TRIED MY BEST. 262 00:14:19,434 --> 00:14:27,943 >> Pelley: DOES THE UNITED STATES, AS A COUNTRY, OWE 263 00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:30,178 ANYTHING TO SAAD? 264 00:14:30,245 --> 00:14:31,680 >> Morell: DO I FEEL SOME OBLIGATION TO DR. SAAD? 265 00:14:31,747 --> 00:14:35,617 YES. 266 00:14:35,684 --> 00:14:39,454 DOES THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? 267 00:14:39,521 --> 00:14:39,955 THE PEOPLE AT C.I.A. DO. 268 00:14:40,022 --> 00:14:42,057 THE PEOPLE AT C.I.A. DO. 269 00:14:42,124 --> 00:14:43,992 YOUKNOW, WHETHER THE COUNTRY DOES OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW. 270 00:14:44,059 --> 00:14:48,196 IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A HARD QUESTION. 271 00:14:48,263 --> 00:14:52,134 >> Pelley: IT'S BEEN HARD FOR PRESIDENTS TO STAND UP TO 272 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,270 MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN. 273 00:14:55,337 --> 00:14:58,840 NEITHER THE TRUMP NOR BIDEN ADMINISTRATIONS PUBLICLY 274 00:14:58,907 --> 00:14:59,941 SANCTIONED HIM AFTER KHASHOGGI. 275 00:15:00,008 --> 00:15:04,012 SAUDI OIL ISN'T AS IMPORTANT AS IT ONCE WAS, BUT COUNTERING IRAN 276 00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:11,086 IS, WHICH HAS LED TO A CERTAIN TOLERANCE OF A MENACING PRINCE. 277 00:15:11,153 --> 00:15:16,024 ( TICKING ) >> DR. SAAD ALJABRI ON THE HIT 278 00:15:16,091 --> 00:15:21,830 SQUAD HE SAYS MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN SENT TO SILENCE DISSENT. 279 00:15:21,897 --> 00:15:26,802 AT 60minutesovertime.com. 280 00:15:31,573 --> 00:15:34,309 >> Bill Whitaker: THIS PAST WEEK, CALIFORNIA DECLARED A 281 00:15:34,376 --> 00:15:36,678 STATEWIDE DROUGHT EMERGENCY. 282 00:15:36,745 --> 00:15:38,213 IT FOLLOWS THE FIRST-EVER FEDERAL SHORTAGE DECLARATION ON 283 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,284 THE COLORADO RIVER, TRIGGERING CUTS TO WATER SUPPLIES IN THE 284 00:15:42,351 --> 00:15:45,487 SOUTHWEST. 285 00:15:45,554 --> 00:15:49,124 THE COLORADO IS THE LIFEBLOOD OF THE REGION. 286 00:15:49,191 --> 00:15:52,327 IT WATERS SOME OF THE COUNTRY'S FASTEST-GROWING CITIES, 287 00:15:52,394 --> 00:15:54,529 NOURISHES SOME OF OUR MOST FERTILE FIELDS, AND POWERS 288 00:15:54,596 --> 00:15:58,166 $1.4 TRILLION IN ANNUAL ECONOMIC ACTIVITY. 289 00:15:58,233 --> 00:16:01,570 THE RIVER RUNS MORE THAN 1,400 MILES, FROM HEADWATERS IN 290 00:16:01,636 --> 00:16:06,241 THE ROCKIES TO ITS DELTA IN NORTHERN MEXICO, WHERE IT ENDS 291 00:16:06,308 --> 00:16:07,542 IN A TRICKLE. 292 00:16:07,609 --> 00:16:13,548 SEVEN STATES AND 30 NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES LIE IN THE 293 00:16:13,615 --> 00:16:14,249 COLORADO RIVER BASIN. 294 00:16:14,316 --> 00:16:19,554 LATELY, THE RIVER HAS BEEN RUNNING DRY DUE TO THE 295 00:16:19,621 --> 00:16:25,026 HISTORICALLY SEVERE DROUGHT. 296 00:16:25,093 --> 00:16:29,364 THE MAJESTIC, MEANDERING COLORADO RIVER, THAT CUT THROUGH 297 00:16:29,431 --> 00:16:31,566 THESE RED CLIFFS, CARVING THE GRAND CANYON, IS A WONDER OF 298 00:16:31,633 --> 00:16:34,236 NATURE AND HUMAN INGENUITY. 299 00:16:34,302 --> 00:16:38,273 THE GLEN CANYON DAM CREATED LAKE POWELL AND, 300 MILES 300 00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:44,746 DOWN-RIVER, LAKE MEAD SITS BEHIND THE HOOVER DAM. 301 00:16:44,813 --> 00:16:46,581 THESE RESERVOIRS ARE NOW BEING SUCKED DRY BY 40 MILLION 302 00:16:46,648 --> 00:16:49,551 DIFFERENT STRAWS-- THAT'S THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN BOOMING 303 00:16:49,618 --> 00:16:53,889 WESTERN STATES WHO DEPEND ON THE COLORADO TO QUENCH THEIR THIRST, 304 00:16:53,955 --> 00:16:58,226 POWER THEIR HOMES, WATER LAWNS AND SPLASH IN THE SUN. 305 00:16:58,293 --> 00:17:01,630 ITS WATERS IRRIGATE FARMS THAT PRODUCE 90% OF THE COUNTRY'S 306 00:17:01,696 --> 00:17:05,434 WINTER GREENS. 307 00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:07,736 TO ALL THESE DEMANDS, ADD THE STRESS OF A 22-YEAR DROUGHT, AS 308 00:17:07,803 --> 00:17:13,308 DRY AS ANY PERIOD IN 1,200 YEARS, AND YOU HAVE A RIVER IN 309 00:17:13,375 --> 00:17:13,608 CRISIS. 310 00:17:13,675 --> 00:17:17,112 THESE WHITE BATHTUB RINGS; IS-- IS THIS WHERE THE WATER USED TO 311 00:17:17,179 --> 00:17:18,346 BE? 312 00:17:18,413 --> 00:17:19,614 >> Brad Udall: ABSOLUTELY. 313 00:17:19,681 --> 00:17:22,451 >> Whitaker: BRAD UDALL, A CLIMATE SCIENTIST AT COLORADO 314 00:17:22,517 --> 00:17:26,288 STATE UNIVERSITY, WENT OUT ON LAKE POWELL WITH US. 315 00:17:26,354 --> 00:17:30,192 SO ALL OF THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN UNDERWATER? 316 00:17:30,258 --> 00:17:30,559 >> Udall: YEAH. 317 00:17:30,625 --> 00:17:34,296 >> Whitaker: SO WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING 318 00:17:34,362 --> 00:17:36,665 ON THE COLORADO RIVER? 319 00:17:36,731 --> 00:17:38,333 >> Udall: WELL, IT'S A SIGNAL OF THE LONG-TERM PROBLEM WE'VE BEEN 320 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,304 SEEING SINCE THE YEAR 2000, WHICH IS, CLIMATE CHANGE IS 321 00:17:42,370 --> 00:17:46,308 REDUCING THE FLOWS OF THE COLORADO SIGNIFICANTLY. 322 00:17:46,374 --> 00:17:49,611 >> Whitaker: LAKE POWELL AND LAKE MEAD, THE TWO BIGGEST 323 00:17:49,678 --> 00:17:54,316 RESERVOIRS IN THE COUNTRY, WERE NEARLY FULL IN 2000. 324 00:17:54,382 --> 00:17:58,286 TODAY, THEY ARE AT JUST ABOUT 30% CAPACITY. 325 00:17:58,353 --> 00:18:01,957 >> Udall: THE LAKE'S NOW 155 FEET BELOW FULL. 326 00:18:02,023 --> 00:18:05,093 IT'S DROPPED SOMETHING LIKE 50 FEET THIS YEAR. 327 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:06,361 >> Whitaker: AND IT'S STILL DROPPING? 328 00:18:06,428 --> 00:18:07,696 >> Udall: YES. 329 00:18:07,762 --> 00:18:10,365 AND THAT'S WHEN POWER GENERATION ACTUALLY BECOMES TO COME INTO 330 00:18:10,432 --> 00:18:11,900 QUESTION. 331 00:18:11,967 --> 00:18:13,468 >> Whitaker: SO IT DROPS SO LOW THAT IT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO 332 00:18:13,535 --> 00:18:14,369 GENERATE-- >> Udall: IT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO 333 00:18:14,436 --> 00:18:15,637 GENERATE POWER. 334 00:18:15,704 --> 00:18:17,672 >> Whitaker: --HYDROELECTRIC POWER? 335 00:18:17,739 --> 00:18:18,373 >> Udall: YEAH. 336 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,377 >> Whitaker: BRAD UDALL HAS STRONG CONNECTIONS TO THE RIVER. 337 00:18:22,444 --> 00:18:25,714 AS SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR, HIS UNCLE, STEWART UDALL, OPENED 338 00:18:25,780 --> 00:18:29,117 THE GLEN CANYON DAM. 339 00:18:29,184 --> 00:18:31,720 HIS FATHER, CONGRESSMAN MO UDALL, FOUGHT TO CHANNEL RIVER 340 00:18:31,786 --> 00:18:34,356 WATER TO ARIZONA. 341 00:18:34,422 --> 00:18:37,726 AS A YOUNG MAN, BRAD WAS A COLORADO RIVER GUIDE. 342 00:18:37,792 --> 00:18:42,163 TODAY, HE ANALYZES THE IMPACT OF CLIMATE CHANGE ON WATER 343 00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:42,430 RESOURCES. 344 00:18:42,497 --> 00:18:46,368 IS THE WEST ON A COLLISION COURSE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE? 345 00:18:46,434 --> 00:18:49,704 >> Udall: IN SOME WAYS, YES, BUT WE HAVE FULLY UTILIZED THIS 346 00:18:49,771 --> 00:18:50,372 SYSTEM. 347 00:18:50,438 --> 00:18:54,376 WE'VE OVER-ALLOCATED IT, AND WE NOW NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW TO 348 00:18:54,442 --> 00:18:57,445 TURN SOME OF THIS BACK. 349 00:18:57,512 --> 00:19:00,115 BECAUSE THE ONLY LEVER WE CONTROL RIGHT NOW IN THE RIVER 350 00:19:00,181 --> 00:19:01,049 IS THE DEMAND LEVER. 351 00:19:01,116 --> 00:19:05,420 WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE SUPPLY. 352 00:19:05,487 --> 00:19:06,454 SO WE HAVE TO DIAL BACK DEMAND. 353 00:19:06,521 --> 00:19:10,425 >> Whitaker: 70% OF COLORADO RIVER WATER GOES TO AGRICULTURE. 354 00:19:10,492 --> 00:19:16,698 WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DECLARED THE WATER SHORTAGE, IT 355 00:19:16,765 --> 00:19:17,365 TRIGGERED MANDATORY CUTBACKS. 356 00:19:17,432 --> 00:19:19,768 PINAL COUNTY, ARIZONA GOT HIT HARD. 357 00:19:19,834 --> 00:19:24,306 >> Waylon Wuertz: PINAL COUNTY ALONE, WE'RE GOING TO BE LOSING 358 00:19:24,372 --> 00:19:26,441 300,000 ACRE FEET OF SURFACE WATER. 359 00:19:26,508 --> 00:19:31,780 THAT'S WATER THAT WOULD BE DELIVERED FROM LAKE POWELL, 360 00:19:31,846 --> 00:19:34,449 LAKE MEAD. 361 00:19:34,516 --> 00:19:37,619 AS PART OF THE COLORADO RIVER. 362 00:19:37,686 --> 00:19:42,424 300,000 ACRE FEET IS 98 BILLION GALLONS OF WATER. 363 00:19:42,490 --> 00:19:46,161 >> Whitaker: WAYLON WUERTZ FARMS 500 ACRES IN PINAL COUNTY, SOUTH 364 00:19:46,227 --> 00:19:46,461 OF PHOENIX. 365 00:19:46,528 --> 00:19:49,764 HIS FAMILY HAS TILLED SOIL HERE FOR FOUR GENERATIONS. 366 00:19:49,831 --> 00:19:54,436 IT'S SOME OF THE MOST PRODUCTIVE LAND IN THE STATE. 367 00:19:54,502 --> 00:20:00,442 CROPS FROM PINAL COUNTY ARE SHIPPED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. 368 00:20:00,508 --> 00:20:06,448 WUERTZ GROWS GOURDS, COTTON, AND ALFALFA-- PROFITABLE BUT THIRSTY 369 00:20:06,514 --> 00:20:10,452 CROPS-- AND HIS ALLOTMENT OF COLORADO RIVER WATER IS BEING 370 00:20:10,518 --> 00:20:12,754 CUT BY 70%. 371 00:20:12,821 --> 00:20:13,788 THIS IS COLORADO RIVER WATER? 372 00:20:13,855 --> 00:20:17,292 >> Wuertz: YEAH, KIND OF THE-- THE LIFELINE OF OUR IRRIGATED 373 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:18,059 A.G. HERE. 374 00:20:18,126 --> 00:20:19,794 >> Whitaker: THIS COMES STRAIGHT IN FROM LAKE MEAD? 375 00:20:19,861 --> 00:20:21,262 >> Wuertz: CORRECT. 376 00:20:21,329 --> 00:20:23,999 THIS IS-- THROUGH HUNDREDS OF MILES OF CANAL SYSTEM. 377 00:20:24,065 --> 00:20:29,904 IT'S MADE ITS WAY DOWN HERE TO CENTRAL ARIZONA. 378 00:20:29,971 --> 00:20:31,773 >> Whitaker: AND WHAT PERCENTAGE OF YOUR WATER IS SUPPLIED BY 379 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,442 THIS CANAL? 380 00:20:34,509 --> 00:20:37,779 >> Wuertz: IT'S BEEN CLOSE TO 50% OF THE WATER THAT WE'VE USED 381 00:20:37,846 --> 00:20:38,480 TO-- TO FARM HERE. 382 00:20:38,546 --> 00:20:42,417 AND, THIS NEXT YEAR, IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO DROP DOWN TO 383 00:20:42,484 --> 00:20:45,286 ABOUT 20% OF THE WATER THAT WE USE. 384 00:20:45,353 --> 00:20:46,621 >> Whitaker: THAT'S ONE-SEVENTH OF WHAT HE WAS GETTING A DECADE 385 00:20:46,688 --> 00:20:49,791 AGO. 386 00:20:49,858 --> 00:20:54,429 TO USE LESS WATER AND MAKE ENDS MEET, WUERTZ SOLD MORE THAN 300 387 00:20:54,496 --> 00:20:58,433 ACRES TO A SOLAR FARM. 388 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:02,504 HE DIPPED INTO RETIREMENT FUNDS TO REPAIR AND RESTART OLD WELLS. 389 00:21:02,570 --> 00:21:06,708 HE LASER-LEVELED HIS FIELDS TO MAKE IRRIGATION MORE EFFICIENT. 390 00:21:06,775 --> 00:21:09,844 BUT IT'S JUST NOT ENOUGH, IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS DROUGHT. 391 00:21:09,911 --> 00:21:10,512 >> Wuertz: NO, IT'S NOT ENOUGH. 392 00:21:10,578 --> 00:21:14,516 >> Whitaker: SO NEXT YEAR, HE TOLD US, HE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE 150 393 00:21:14,582 --> 00:21:17,686 ACRES UNCULTIVATED. 394 00:21:17,752 --> 00:21:19,854 >> Wuertz: WHAT YOU SEE GREEN HERE IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO DIE. 395 00:21:19,921 --> 00:21:23,458 I HOPE WE'LL HAVE ENOUGH WATER TO PLANT IT IN THE FUTURE. 396 00:21:23,525 --> 00:21:25,360 BUT MORE THAN LIKELY, IT'S GOING TO STAY BROWN FOR QUITE SOME 397 00:21:25,427 --> 00:21:25,860 TIME. 398 00:21:25,927 --> 00:21:29,097 >> Amelia Flores: ALL THE WATER- USERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE 399 00:21:29,164 --> 00:21:31,833 UP SOMETHING TO KEEP THAT WATER IN THE LAKE. 400 00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:36,838 >> Whitaker: AMELIA FLORES IS CHAIRWOMAN OF THE COLORADO RIVER 401 00:21:36,905 --> 00:21:41,710 INDIAN TRIBES, A RESERVATION OF FOUR TRIBES A FEW HOURS WEST OF 402 00:21:41,776 --> 00:21:46,514 PHOENIX, WITH THE OLDEST AND LARGEST WATER RIGHTS IN ARIZONA. 403 00:21:46,581 --> 00:21:49,851 AFTER BEING MOVED TO RESERVATIONS, SOUTHWEST TRIBES 404 00:21:49,918 --> 00:21:54,289 GOT RIGHTS TO ABOUT A QUARTER OF THE RIVER'S FLOW, BUT GOVERNMENT 405 00:21:54,355 --> 00:21:55,857 RED TAPE AND LACK OF INFRASTRUCTURE HAVE PREVENTED 406 00:21:55,924 --> 00:21:58,560 THEM FROM USING THEIR FULL ALLOTMENT. 407 00:21:58,626 --> 00:22:04,799 FLORES TOLD US, UNTIL THIS DROUGHT, TRIBES WERE NEVER 408 00:22:04,866 --> 00:22:06,568 INCLUDED IN WATER NEGOTIATIONS. 409 00:22:06,634 --> 00:22:10,572 WHY HAD YOU NOT HAD A SEAT AT THE TABLE BEFORE THIS? 410 00:22:10,638 --> 00:22:13,908 >> Flores: BECAUSE THE TRIBES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN OVERLOOKED IN 411 00:22:13,975 --> 00:22:18,580 THE POLICYMAKING, AND-- AND IN-- IN THE LAW OF THE RIVER. 412 00:22:18,646 --> 00:22:19,914 BUT THAT DAY HAS COME TO AN END. 413 00:22:19,981 --> 00:22:24,452 >> Whitaker: WHEN WESTERN STATES FIRST DIVVIED UP THE COLORADO 414 00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:29,791 RIVER IN 1922, AND LATER, WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BUILT THE 415 00:22:29,858 --> 00:22:31,926 HOOVER AND GLEN CANYON DAMS, THE FUTURE SEEMED BOUNDLESS AND 416 00:22:31,993 --> 00:22:34,562 MANAGEABLE. 417 00:22:34,629 --> 00:22:37,398 THROUGH NEGOTIATION AND COURT BATTLES, STATES WORKED OUT 418 00:22:37,465 --> 00:22:41,569 AGREEMENTS-- THE LAW OF THE RIVER-- TO SPLIT THE WATER 419 00:22:41,636 --> 00:22:45,840 EQUALLY BETWEEN UPPER AND LOWER BASIN STATES. 420 00:22:45,907 --> 00:22:49,911 THE LOWER STATES USE JUST ABOUT ALL THEIR ALLOTMENT, AND IT'S 421 00:22:49,978 --> 00:22:50,578 FED THEIR TREMENDOUS GROWTH. 422 00:22:50,645 --> 00:22:54,582 THE UPPER STATES HAVE NEVER USED THEIR FULL SHARE. 423 00:22:54,649 --> 00:22:58,553 NOW, THEY ARE BOOMING, AND SAY THEY NEED THE WATER THEY'VE BEEN 424 00:22:58,620 --> 00:23:00,655 PROMISED. 425 00:23:00,722 --> 00:23:02,624 I CAN SEE THE BATHTUB RINGS AROUND HERE TOO. 426 00:23:02,690 --> 00:23:05,560 >> Zach Renstrom: WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP EVERY DROP OF WATER WE 427 00:23:05,627 --> 00:23:07,996 CAN INTO THIS RESERVOIR FOR NEXT YEAR'S DRINKING WATER. 428 00:23:08,062 --> 00:23:10,632 >> Whitaker: ZACH RENSTROM MANAGES THE WATER SYSTEM FOR 429 00:23:10,698 --> 00:23:13,968 WASHINGTON COUNTY IN SOUTHWEST UTAH. 430 00:23:14,035 --> 00:23:18,273 ST. GEORGE, THE COUNTY SEAT, IS ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING METRO 431 00:23:18,339 --> 00:23:18,673 AREAS IN THE U.S. 432 00:23:18,740 --> 00:23:25,480 ITS POPULATION GREW 29% THIS PAST DECADE. 433 00:23:25,547 --> 00:23:29,918 THE STATE OF UTAH GETS ABOUT A QUARTER OF ITS WATER FROM THE 434 00:23:29,984 --> 00:23:33,688 COLORADO, BUT MOST OF WASHINGTON COUNTY HAS ONLY ONE SOURCE, THE 435 00:23:33,755 --> 00:23:36,991 VIRGIN RIVER, WHICH FILLS THIS RESERVOIR. 436 00:23:37,058 --> 00:23:38,693 >> Renstrom: SO RIGHT NOW, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF IMPLEMENTING 437 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,330 REALLY STRICT CONSERVATION MEASURES. 438 00:23:42,397 --> 00:23:43,965 AND IF THE CITIES DON'T ADOPT THOSE STANDARDS, THEN WE'LL BE 439 00:23:44,032 --> 00:23:44,766 OUT OF WATER VERY QUICKLY. 440 00:23:44,833 --> 00:23:46,634 >> Whitaker: WHAT IS "VERY QUICKLY?" 441 00:23:46,701 --> 00:23:49,971 >> Renstrom: WITHIN THE NEXT FIVE TO TEN YEARS. 442 00:23:50,038 --> 00:23:54,642 >> Whitaker: SO, IN THE MIDST OF THIS DROUGHT, UTAH IS PROPOSING 443 00:23:54,709 --> 00:23:58,646 TO BUILD A $1 TO $2 BILLION PIPELINE, ABLE TO BRING 27 444 00:23:58,713 --> 00:24:02,050 BILLION GALLONS OF WATER A YEAR FROM DWINDLING LAKE POWELL. 445 00:24:02,116 --> 00:24:06,721 UTAH SAYS IT'S ENTITLED TO THE WATER BY LAW. 446 00:24:06,788 --> 00:24:10,692 YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SIPHONING OFF WATER FROM A LAKE THAT'S 447 00:24:10,758 --> 00:24:14,696 ALREADY AT A CRITICALLY LOW LEVEL, TO HELP A CITY GROW IN 448 00:24:14,762 --> 00:24:18,666 THE DESERT. 449 00:24:18,733 --> 00:24:22,203 >> Renstrom: EVERY STATE ON THE COLORADO RIVER WAS ALLOTTED SO 450 00:24:22,270 --> 00:24:22,837 MUCH WATER, AND A WATER BUDGET. 451 00:24:22,904 --> 00:24:26,040 AND SO, WITH THEIR WATER BUDGET, THE STATE OF UTAH HAS DECIDED 452 00:24:26,107 --> 00:24:28,776 THAT IT WANTS TO USE A PORTION OF ITS WATER HERE IN ST. GEORGE, 453 00:24:28,843 --> 00:24:29,711 UTAH. 454 00:24:29,777 --> 00:24:32,080 >> Whitaker: BUT IT WAS A BUDGET THAT WAS SET WHEN WATER WAS 455 00:24:32,146 --> 00:24:33,214 PLENTIFUL. 456 00:24:33,281 --> 00:24:34,249 IT ISN'T ANYMORE. 457 00:24:34,315 --> 00:24:34,749 WHAT IS UTAH HOPING FOR? 458 00:24:34,816 --> 00:24:38,052 >> Renstrom: UTAH WANTS THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT EVERY OTHER 459 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:38,753 BASIN STATE HAS DONE. 460 00:24:38,820 --> 00:24:42,223 WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE WATER FOR OUR FUTURE, FOR A 461 00:24:42,290 --> 00:24:44,058 HOTTER, DRYER SCENARIO THAT'S COMING UP. 462 00:24:44,125 --> 00:24:50,064 >> J.B. Hamby: BUILDING A MULTI- BILLION DOLLAR PIPELINE TO PUMP 463 00:24:50,131 --> 00:24:52,267 OUT MORE WATER FROM AN ALREADY RAPIDLY DECLINING RESERVOIR 464 00:24:52,333 --> 00:24:56,037 SIMPLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IN THE 21st CENTURY. 465 00:24:56,104 --> 00:25:02,076 >> Whitaker: J.B. HAMBY IS VICE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD THAT RUNS 466 00:25:02,143 --> 00:25:05,046 CALIFORNIA'S IMPERIAL IRRIGATION DISTRICT, ONE OF THE RICHEST 467 00:25:05,113 --> 00:25:07,282 AGRICULTURAL REGIONS IN THE COUNTRY, WITH THE SINGLE LARGEST 468 00:25:07,348 --> 00:25:10,518 ALLOCATION OF WATER ON THE ENTIRE RIVER. 469 00:25:10,585 --> 00:25:13,521 >> Hamby: THERE'S A LOT OF URBAN GROWTH AND SPRAWL OCCURRING IN 470 00:25:13,588 --> 00:25:14,756 OTHER PARTS OF THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN THAT'S REALLY NOT 471 00:25:14,822 --> 00:25:18,092 NECESSARILY SUSTAINABLE. 472 00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:22,764 >> Whitaker: HAMBY SAYS CALIFORNIA'S IMPERIAL VALLEY 473 00:25:22,830 --> 00:25:26,134 FARMS HAVE CUT WATER USAGE ALMOST 20% SINCE 2003, BUT 474 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,772 POINTS OUT AS THE POPULATION OF ST. GEORGE, UTAH GROWS, SO DOES 475 00:25:30,838 --> 00:25:32,140 ITS WATER USE. 476 00:25:32,206 --> 00:25:35,209 >> Hamby: WE NEED TO THINK AND RETHINK ABOUT HOW WE GROW, AND 477 00:25:35,276 --> 00:25:37,512 IF WE GROW AND WHERE WE GROW. 478 00:25:37,578 --> 00:25:38,813 >> Whitaker: ST. GEORGE WOULD SAY THAT THEY'RE NOT ASKING FOR 479 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,784 MORE-- THEY'RE ASKING FOR WHAT THEY NEED. 480 00:25:42,850 --> 00:25:46,754 >> Hamby: I THINK WHAT WE ALL NEED TO HAVE IS A REALITY CHECK, 481 00:25:46,821 --> 00:25:50,458 HERE, AND RECOGNIZE THAT WE LIVE IN AN ERA OF LIMITS RIGHT NOW, 482 00:25:50,525 --> 00:25:52,093 AND THAT'S NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON. 483 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,762 IN FACT, IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE. 484 00:25:54,829 --> 00:25:58,766 >> Whitaker: A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THE LAW OF THE RIVER 485 00:25:58,833 --> 00:26:02,203 ITSELF, A HODGEPODGE OF RULES AND REGULATIONS PIECED TOGETHER 486 00:26:02,270 --> 00:26:05,506 OVER THE COURSE OF A CENTURY. 487 00:26:05,573 --> 00:26:09,978 FOR EXAMPLE, AFTER ALL THE LITIGATION AND NEGOTIATIONS, THE 488 00:26:10,044 --> 00:26:14,215 LAW ENDS UP ALLOCATING MORE WATER THAN ACTUALLY FLOWS DOWN 489 00:26:14,282 --> 00:26:14,849 THE COLORADO. 490 00:26:14,916 --> 00:26:20,188 AND THIS: IN TIMES OF SHORTAGE, CHANNELS THAT PROVIDE MORE THAN 491 00:26:20,254 --> 00:26:25,994 A THIRD OF ARIZONA'S WATER MUST RUN DRY BEFORE CALIFORNIA IS 492 00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:26,461 REQUIRED TO CUT BACK. 493 00:26:26,527 --> 00:26:32,200 SO-- SO, WAIT A MINUTE-- ARIZONA IS BEING CALLED ON TO CUT ITS 494 00:26:32,266 --> 00:26:34,836 WATER INTAKE BEFORE CALIFORNIA HAS TO GIVE UP EVEN ONE DROP? 495 00:26:34,902 --> 00:26:38,206 >> Udall: PRETTY AMAZING. 496 00:26:38,272 --> 00:26:38,873 IT CAN'T WORK IN TODAY'S WORLD. 497 00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:43,311 AND IT'S, IN SOME WAYS, A LITTLE MICROCOSM, RIGHT, OF THIS WHOLE 498 00:26:43,378 --> 00:26:46,681 LAW OF THE RIVER, WITH THESE SYSTEMS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN 499 00:26:46,748 --> 00:26:47,248 PLACE THAT JUST DON'T WORK. 500 00:26:47,315 --> 00:26:49,183 THEY CAN'T WORK. 501 00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:50,852 AND THAT'S WHY A RETHINK'S NEEDED. 502 00:26:50,918 --> 00:26:56,190 >> Whitaker: ONE EXAMPLE OF RETHINKING? 503 00:26:56,257 --> 00:27:00,962 THE COLORADO RIVER INDIAN TRIBES AGREED TO LEAVE FIELDS 504 00:27:01,029 --> 00:27:02,797 UNCULTIVATED, LEAVING 48 BILLION GALLONS-- ALMOST THREE FEET OF 505 00:27:02,864 --> 00:27:06,000 WATER-- IN LAKE MEAD. 506 00:27:06,067 --> 00:27:08,269 THE STATE OF ARIZONA AGREED TO PAY THEM FOR THEIR LOSSES. 507 00:27:08,336 --> 00:27:14,275 >> Flores: MY PEOPLE WANT TO HELP DURING THIS DROUGHT. 508 00:27:14,342 --> 00:27:18,913 WE WANT TO SAVE THE RIVER, BECAUSE FOR CENTURIES, THE RIVER 509 00:27:18,980 --> 00:27:22,884 HAS ALWAYS TAKEN CARE OF US, SO NOW, WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THE 510 00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:23,084 RIVER. 511 00:27:23,151 --> 00:27:26,254 >> Udall: THAT'S WHAT NEGOTIATIONS ARE ALL ABOUT, 512 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:26,888 RIGHT? 513 00:27:26,954 --> 00:27:30,124 IT MAY BE THERE ARE WAYS TO CONSERVE, AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO 514 00:27:30,191 --> 00:27:34,896 GET THE SAME GOODS AND SERVICES FOR LESS WATER. 515 00:27:34,962 --> 00:27:37,899 LET'S LET A.G. GROW CROPS THAT USE LESS WATER. 516 00:27:37,965 --> 00:27:39,100 LET'S FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE CITIES USE WATER AS EFFICIENTLY 517 00:27:39,167 --> 00:27:41,936 AS POSSIBLE. 518 00:27:42,003 --> 00:27:44,272 SO, I MEAN, WE NEED SOME OPTIMISM HERE, RIGHT? 519 00:27:44,338 --> 00:27:46,641 >> Wuertz: THIS DESERT GROUND... 520 00:27:46,707 --> 00:27:49,243 >> Whitaker: BUT AS WE SAW AT THIS MEETING OF PINAL COUNTY 521 00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:50,845 FARMERS, OPTIMISM IS IN SHORT SUPPLY. 522 00:27:50,912 --> 00:27:54,982 >> Wuertz: THE FARMER WHO'S PREPARED THEIR WHOLE LIFE, 523 00:27:55,049 --> 00:27:59,387 WORKED THE LAND, FARMED THE LAND, IS GETTING THE SHORT END 524 00:27:59,454 --> 00:28:02,056 OF THE STICK. 525 00:28:02,123 --> 00:28:04,492 >> Whitaker: FARMERS HERE AND ACROSS THE SOUTHWEST FEED THE 526 00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:05,593 COUNTRY. 527 00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:07,028 BUT IT TAKES MORE THAN TWO- THIRDS OF THE COLORADO RIVER TO 528 00:28:07,095 --> 00:28:10,398 PRODUCE THE BOUNTY. 529 00:28:10,465 --> 00:28:14,335 WITH LAKE LEVELS DROPPING, ARIZONA FARMERS LIKE WAYLON 530 00:28:14,402 --> 00:28:18,973 WUERTZ FEAR THEIR FERTILE FIELDS COULD BECOME DESERT AGAIN. 531 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,977 >> Wuertz: YOU'RE GOING TO SEE DRASTIC CUTS, A DRASTIC CHANGE 532 00:28:23,044 --> 00:28:24,645 OF WHAT NEXT YEAR HAS TO BRING. 533 00:28:24,712 --> 00:28:26,414 AND FOR MY PARTICULAR FAMILY FARM, WE'RE DOING ALL THAT WE 534 00:28:26,481 --> 00:28:30,985 CAN TO KEEP IT GOING. 535 00:28:31,052 --> 00:28:36,390 BUT I HAVE A FEELING IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE NONE OF 536 00:28:36,457 --> 00:28:37,925 THIS EXISTS. 537 00:28:37,992 --> 00:28:40,862 ( TICKING ) ( TICKING ) 538 00:28:48,669 --> 00:28:51,572 >> Jon Wertheim: IT'S ALMOST LIKE, WHEN NO ONE WAS LOOKING, 539 00:28:51,639 --> 00:28:52,773 MICHAEL KEATON CREPT ON TO HOLLYWOOD'S A-LIST, AND THEN 540 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,476 NEVER LEFT. 541 00:28:55,543 --> 00:28:56,777 EXCEPT THAT WE WERE LOOKING. 542 00:28:56,844 --> 00:28:58,479 KEATON'S FILMS HAVE, COLLECTIVELY, GROSSED BILLIONS 543 00:28:58,546 --> 00:29:00,781 AT THE BOX OFFICE. 544 00:29:00,848 --> 00:29:04,252 HE'S PLAYED BIRDMAN AND BATMAN, AND STARRED IN "SPIDER-MAN." 545 00:29:04,318 --> 00:29:07,121 THE IRONY IS THAT KEATON'S REAL POWER IS PORTRAYING THE 546 00:29:07,188 --> 00:29:08,356 EVERY-MAN. 547 00:29:08,422 --> 00:29:12,360 THE SALESMAN, THE F.B.I. MAN, THE PUT-UPON NEWSPAPERMAN. 548 00:29:12,426 --> 00:29:15,763 AN ACTOR ON A CAREER-LONG CRUSADE AGAINST TYPECASTING, 549 00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:16,864 KEATON IS WILLFULLY UNPREDICTABLE IN CHOOSING HIS 550 00:29:16,931 --> 00:29:19,367 ROLES. 551 00:29:19,433 --> 00:29:22,270 BUT, HE IS CONSISTENT IN NAILING THEM. 552 00:29:22,336 --> 00:29:24,805 AND AT AGE 70, HE'S STILL AT IT. 553 00:29:24,872 --> 00:29:28,276 FIND MICHAEL KEATON A CHARACTER HE FINDS APPEALING, AND, TO 554 00:29:28,342 --> 00:29:32,847 BORROW A PHRASE, IT'S SHOW TIME. 555 00:29:32,914 --> 00:29:36,651 FORGET ABOUT MEETING AT SOME PRECIOUS MALIBU BISTRO OR ON A 556 00:29:36,717 --> 00:29:36,918 MOVIE SET. 557 00:29:36,984 --> 00:29:44,859 MICHAEL KEATON WANTED US TO MEET HIM IN HIS ELEMENT, SO WE DID, 558 00:29:44,926 --> 00:29:48,262 HERE-- ON HIS 1,000-ACRE SWATCH OF TROUT STREAMS AND MOUNTAINS 559 00:29:48,329 --> 00:29:48,863 UNDER MONTANA'S BIG SKY. 560 00:29:48,930 --> 00:29:51,832 >> Michael Keaton: WOW, LOOK AT THAT. 561 00:29:51,899 --> 00:29:53,034 >> Wertheim: IT'S EASY TO BE HUMBLED BY THE SHEER VASTNESS OF 562 00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:56,304 THE PLACE. 563 00:29:56,370 --> 00:29:58,306 NOT THAT THIS IS A MOVIE STAR IN NEED OF ANY EGO REDUCTION. 564 00:29:58,372 --> 00:30:00,875 >> Keaton: AS SOON AS I BOUGHT THIS PLACE-- SOON AS I BOUGHT 565 00:30:00,942 --> 00:30:04,245 IT-- AND IT WAS A DREAM OF MINE FROM THE TIME I WAS A LITTLE 566 00:30:04,312 --> 00:30:07,982 KID-- IT HIT ME. 567 00:30:08,049 --> 00:30:10,251 LIKE, IT WAS CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT I DON'T REALLY OWN ANYTHING. 568 00:30:10,318 --> 00:30:12,853 YOU DON'T REALLY-- YOU-- WE'RE RENTERS. 569 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:13,955 YOU KNOW, I DON'T OWN THIS. 570 00:30:14,021 --> 00:30:15,423 THIS IS JUST-- I JUST HAPPENED TO MAKE A TRANSACTION. 571 00:30:15,489 --> 00:30:16,857 >> Wertheim: JUST PASSING THROUGH. 572 00:30:16,924 --> 00:30:19,327 >> Keaton: PASSING THROUGH. 573 00:30:19,393 --> 00:30:22,263 >> Wertheim: AFTER A SHORT DRIVE UP A DIRT PATH, WE DISCUSSED 574 00:30:22,330 --> 00:30:24,865 RANGE OF A DIFFERENT SORT. 575 00:30:24,932 --> 00:30:28,269 WE ASKED KEATON ABOUT HIS STAGGERING VERSATILITY, THE KEY 576 00:30:28,336 --> 00:30:31,172 TO HIS SUCCESS AND HOLLYWOOD LONGEVITY. 577 00:30:31,239 --> 00:30:32,974 >> Wertheim: GO DOWN YOUR IMdB PAGE AND, IN THE BEST POSSIBLE 578 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,844 WAY, YOU GET WHIPLASH. 579 00:30:36,911 --> 00:30:40,248 I SEE THIS ARCHETYPE, AMERICAN MALE, AND IT'S LAWYERS, AND 580 00:30:40,314 --> 00:30:41,983 NEWSPAPER MEN, AND DOCTORS. 581 00:30:42,049 --> 00:30:43,284 >> Keaton: I GUESS THAT'S TRUE. 582 00:30:43,351 --> 00:30:44,719 I GUESS, YEAH. 583 00:30:44,785 --> 00:30:48,055 IF I WENT-- AND I'VE NEVER SEEN MY IMd-- IMdB? 584 00:30:48,122 --> 00:30:48,756 OR IM-B-D? 585 00:30:48,823 --> 00:30:50,591 ( LAUGHS ) WHICH ONE? 586 00:30:50,658 --> 00:30:53,928 I CAN KNOW-- WHICH-- WHICH ONE COMES FIRST-- BUT I-- BUT, YEAH. 587 00:30:53,995 --> 00:30:55,997 WELL, IF YOU PUT IT LIKE THAT, I'D GO, YEAH, PRETTY MUCH. 588 00:30:56,063 --> 00:30:57,565 BUT IT'S A REPRESENTATION OF ALL KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THAT. 589 00:30:57,632 --> 00:31:00,534 LIKE, BUT-- WHO'S THE PERSON IN THAT JOB? 590 00:31:00,601 --> 00:31:02,169 YOU KNOW, WHAT'S-- WHAT'S THE PERSON IN THAT JOB? 591 00:31:02,236 --> 00:31:03,771 >> Wertheim: RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. 592 00:31:03,838 --> 00:31:06,340 >> Keaton: PEOPLE TALK ABOUT RANGE. 593 00:31:06,407 --> 00:31:08,709 THERE'S-- YOU KNOW, IT'S-- FLATTERING. 594 00:31:08,776 --> 00:31:10,311 BUT RANGE DOESN'T REALLY-- RANGE, SCHMANGE, YOU KNOW. 595 00:31:10,378 --> 00:31:12,046 IT, LIKE-- >> Wertheim: REALLY? 596 00:31:12,113 --> 00:31:13,447 >> Keaton: YEAH, WELL, RANGE-- >> Wertheim: I WOULD THINK YOU'D 597 00:31:13,514 --> 00:31:14,749 TAKE PRIDE IN THAT. 598 00:31:14,815 --> 00:31:15,850 >> Keaton: I DO. 599 00:31:15,916 --> 00:31:18,152 BUT I DON'T THINK OF IT IN TERMS OF, "WELL, YOU PLAYED THAT. 600 00:31:18,219 --> 00:31:18,919 THEN, YOU WERE FUNNY. 601 00:31:18,986 --> 00:31:20,655 AND THEN, YOU-- THEN YOU WERE A SAD MAN. 602 00:31:20,721 --> 00:31:22,323 AND THEN YOU--" YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT REALLY, TO 603 00:31:22,390 --> 00:31:24,592 ME-- RANGE. 604 00:31:24,659 --> 00:31:26,994 YOU KNOW, YOU GO INSIDE THE-- THE PERSON, YOU KNOW. 605 00:31:27,061 --> 00:31:28,362 >> Wertheim: IS THERE RANGE WITHIN A CHARACTER? 606 00:31:28,429 --> 00:31:29,597 >> Keaton: YEAH. 607 00:31:29,664 --> 00:31:31,432 BECAUSE THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS, YOU KNOW. 608 00:31:31,499 --> 00:31:34,335 >> Wertheim: AND THAT INCLUDES ONE SUPERHERO. 609 00:31:34,402 --> 00:31:36,971 THIS MAY BE THE RANCH "BATMAN" BUILT. 610 00:31:37,038 --> 00:31:40,308 KEATON BOUGHT IT IN 1989, THE SAME YEAR AS HIS BIGGEST 611 00:31:40,374 --> 00:31:40,908 BLOCKBUSTER. 612 00:31:40,975 --> 00:31:43,911 >> Keaton: ALL RIGHT, LISTEN... 613 00:31:43,978 --> 00:31:46,314 >> Wertheim: BUT BY THEN, HE HAD ALREADY ESTABLISHED HIS M.O., 614 00:31:46,380 --> 00:31:50,951 DELIVERING A CERTAIN BELIEVABILITY TO A BROAD ARRAY 615 00:31:51,018 --> 00:31:52,320 OF CHARACTERS: A STAY-AT-HOME DAD, A CRAZY-HAIRED 616 00:31:52,386 --> 00:31:54,488 POLTERGEIST... 617 00:31:54,555 --> 00:31:56,424 >> Keaton: IT'S SHOWTIME! 618 00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:58,326 >> Wertheim: ...A WASHED-UP ACTOR, A FOUNDER. 619 00:31:58,392 --> 00:32:04,999 IN EACH OF THEM, KEATON DOES, WELL, THAT KEATON THING. 620 00:32:05,066 --> 00:32:09,170 HE PROJECTS A DISARMING INTENSITY. 621 00:32:09,236 --> 00:32:12,039 HIS BROWS ARCH. 622 00:32:12,106 --> 00:32:13,007 THE EYES NARROW. 623 00:32:13,074 --> 00:32:14,475 THE MOUTH PUCKERS. 624 00:32:14,542 --> 00:32:15,242 AND WE ARE BUYING HIS CHARACTER. 625 00:32:15,309 --> 00:32:16,377 >> Keaton: I'M HERE BECAUSE I THINK THE STORY IS WRONG. 626 00:32:16,444 --> 00:32:19,046 IS IT? 627 00:32:19,113 --> 00:32:20,981 >> Wertheim: EVEN BEFORE HIS TRADEMARK STACCATO PATTER KICKS 628 00:32:21,048 --> 00:32:22,383 IN. 629 00:32:22,450 --> 00:32:24,985 >> Keaton: I USED TO KIND OF THINK I HAD TO FLEE FROM-- ME, 630 00:32:25,052 --> 00:32:27,388 YOU KNOW. 631 00:32:27,455 --> 00:32:28,723 AND THEN LATER ON, THERE'S SOMETHING IN ME THAT'S-- THAT'S 632 00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:31,058 OKAY. 633 00:32:31,125 --> 00:32:34,328 I WAS NEVER AFRAID TO GO TO A DARK OR SCARY OR REALLY, REALLY, 634 00:32:34,395 --> 00:32:39,633 REALLY RAW PLACES-- EVER, EVER. 635 00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:42,737 BUT ALSO I DIDN'T WANT TO LOOK BACK AND GO, "YOU KIND OF-- KIND 636 00:32:42,803 --> 00:32:44,138 OF WUSSED OUT," YOU KNOW? 637 00:32:44,205 --> 00:32:46,407 AND SOMETIMES THERE'S NO CRIME IN SAYING, "THIS IS PRETTY EASY. 638 00:32:46,474 --> 00:32:48,976 JUST-- JUST OPEN YOUR MOUTH, AND LET THE WORDS COME OUT, AND-- 639 00:32:49,043 --> 00:32:51,011 AND TELL THE TRUTH." 640 00:32:51,078 --> 00:32:52,980 >> Wertheim: THIS SIXTH SENSE FOR AUTHENTICITY FIRST CAME TO 641 00:32:53,047 --> 00:32:56,984 KEATON IN THE MOST UN-HOLLYWOOD OF PLACES: KEATON'S HOME IN 642 00:32:57,051 --> 00:33:00,354 WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA. 643 00:33:00,421 --> 00:33:04,458 IT WAS A SEMINAL MOMENT IN HIS CHILDHOOD WHEN HIS FAMILY WON A 644 00:33:04,525 --> 00:33:05,092 BLACK AND WHITE TV IN A RAFFLE. 645 00:33:05,159 --> 00:33:09,063 >> Keaton: SO WHAT I WATCHED AND LEARNED AND-- AND GREW UP ON AND 646 00:33:09,130 --> 00:33:12,032 LOVED WAS REALLY TELEVISION-- OLD WESTERNS PRIMARILY, WHICH I 647 00:33:12,099 --> 00:33:12,800 LOVED. 648 00:33:12,867 --> 00:33:13,367 I WANTED TO BE THOSE PEOPLE. 649 00:33:13,434 --> 00:33:16,470 ( LAUGHS ) >> Wertheim: YOU DIDN'T WANT TO 650 00:33:16,537 --> 00:33:17,037 BE GENE AUTRY. 651 00:33:17,104 --> 00:33:20,541 YOU WANTED TO BE THE COWBOY. 652 00:33:20,608 --> 00:33:21,041 >> Keaton: OH, YEAH. 653 00:33:21,108 --> 00:33:23,043 AND, YOU KNOW, THE THING IS, I NEVER BOUGHT THOSE GUYS, EVEN AT 654 00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:24,645 A YOUNG AGE. 655 00:33:24,712 --> 00:33:25,212 I SAID, "THEY'RE TOO PRETTY. 656 00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:27,181 THEY'RE TOO CLEAN. 657 00:33:27,248 --> 00:33:28,449 THEY PROBABLY DON'T SMELL." 658 00:33:28,516 --> 00:33:29,850 FROM THE TIME I WAS YOUNG. 659 00:33:29,917 --> 00:33:33,053 I HAD TO BELIEVE EVERYTHING I WAS SEEING. 660 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,323 >> Wertheim: MICHAEL KEATON GREW UP THE YOUNGEST OF SEVEN KIDS, 661 00:33:36,390 --> 00:33:40,161 RAISED IN A WORKING-CLASS TOWN OUTSIDE PITTSBURGH. 662 00:33:40,227 --> 00:33:44,098 HIS FATHER WAS A CIVIL ENGINEER; HIS MOTHER RAN THE SHOW AT HOME. 663 00:33:44,165 --> 00:33:46,467 KEATON WAS AN ALTAR-BOY-- LITERALLY-- AND HE SAYS, A 664 00:33:46,534 --> 00:33:49,103 DECENT STUDENT, AS LONG AS THERE WERE NUNS AROUND. 665 00:33:49,170 --> 00:33:53,040 HE ATTENDED KENT STATE UNIVERSITY FOR ONE YEAR, AND 666 00:33:53,107 --> 00:33:56,577 THEN SERIOUSLY COMMITTED TO WHAT HAD, TILL THEN, BEEN VAGUE 667 00:33:56,644 --> 00:33:58,446 DESIGNS OF ACTING AND PERFORMING STAND-UP COMEDY. 668 00:33:58,512 --> 00:34:01,348 >> Keaton: I MEAN, EVERYBODY HAS THE HARD MEMORIES, THE 669 00:34:01,415 --> 00:34:04,518 EMBARRASSING TOUGH TIMES, AND THE DOWN TIMES. 670 00:34:04,585 --> 00:34:06,987 YOU KNOW, NO-- NO MONEY OR NO-- YOU KNOW, LIVING IN ( BLEEP ) 671 00:34:07,054 --> 00:34:07,955 PLACES. 672 00:34:08,022 --> 00:34:10,524 BUT THAT'S, LIKE-- THAT'S, LIKE, NOT A BIG DEAL TO ME. 673 00:34:10,591 --> 00:34:12,426 YOU KNOW, THAT'S-- THAT'S JUST PART OF THE DEAL. 674 00:34:12,493 --> 00:34:14,795 >> Wertheim: BUT HIS NOSTALGIA HAS ITS LIMITS. 675 00:34:14,862 --> 00:34:16,730 HE RECALLS THE PERILS OF THE OPEN MIC. 676 00:34:16,797 --> 00:34:20,067 I HEARD A STORY, WHEN YOU FOLLOWED AN IRISH FOLK SINGER UP 677 00:34:20,134 --> 00:34:21,135 ON STAGE? 678 00:34:21,202 --> 00:34:22,303 >> Keaton: UGH. 679 00:34:22,369 --> 00:34:22,870 >> Wertheim: WHAT HAPPENED? 680 00:34:22,937 --> 00:34:25,506 >> Keaton: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THIS ( BLEEP ) GUY WOULD WEAR, 681 00:34:25,573 --> 00:34:29,143 LIKE, ONE OF THOSE KNIT SWEATERS, LIKE, IN JULY. 682 00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:32,213 YOU KNOW, ONE OF THOSE, LIKE, FISHERMAN SWEATERS. 683 00:34:32,279 --> 00:34:34,515 >> Wertheim: HE'S COMMITTED TO THE ROLE. 684 00:34:34,582 --> 00:34:36,784 >> Keaton: YES, TOTALLY COMMITTED TO THE ROLE, YOU KNOW. 685 00:34:36,851 --> 00:34:38,752 HE'S GOING TO SING THAT SONG WHERE, LIKE, ALL THE KIDS IN THE 686 00:34:38,819 --> 00:34:40,521 FAMILY WENT DOWN IN THE SHIP, YOU KNOW, IN THE COLD ( BLEEP ) 687 00:34:40,588 --> 00:34:42,456 IRISH SEA." 688 00:34:42,523 --> 00:34:44,425 AND I'M GOING TO GO, "HEY, EVERYBODY, HOW YOU DOING?" 689 00:34:44,492 --> 00:34:46,527 >> Wertheim: NOT MUCH OF A WARM- UP ACT. 690 00:34:46,594 --> 00:34:49,129 >> Keaton: NO. 691 00:34:49,196 --> 00:34:53,100 >> Wertheim: IN LOS ANGELES, KEATON SHARPENED HIS IMPROV 692 00:34:53,167 --> 00:34:56,170 CHOPS IN THE CLUBS ON SUNSET AND ON THE SMALL SCREEN. 693 00:34:56,237 --> 00:34:57,137 >> Keaton: I DO. 694 00:34:57,204 --> 00:35:00,241 >> Wertheim: THEN, HIS BIG BREAK-- HE CAUGHT THE EYE OF A 695 00:35:00,307 --> 00:35:01,609 SEASONED COMEDY WRITER WHO RECOMMENDED HIM TO A HOT 696 00:35:01,675 --> 00:35:03,878 DIRECTOR IN TOWN. 697 00:35:03,944 --> 00:35:04,612 >> Keaton: I GOT AN AUDITION. 698 00:35:04,678 --> 00:35:06,547 AND THEN I GOT A CALLBACK, ANOTHER CALLBACK, ANOTHER 699 00:35:06,614 --> 00:35:08,415 CALLBACK, ANOTHER-- I THINK FIVE OR SIX. 700 00:35:08,482 --> 00:35:10,317 >> Wertheim: ALL FOR THE ROLE OF BILLY BLAZE. 701 00:35:10,384 --> 00:35:10,918 >> Keaton: YEAH, BILLY BLAZE. 702 00:35:10,985 --> 00:35:12,486 YEAH. 703 00:35:12,553 --> 00:35:13,187 HOW YOU DOING? 704 00:35:13,254 --> 00:35:14,889 I'M BILL BLAZEJOWSKI. 705 00:35:14,955 --> 00:35:15,723 YOU CAN CALL ME BILLY BLAZE. 706 00:35:15,789 --> 00:35:16,590 YOU MUST BE CHUCK, RIGHT? 707 00:35:16,657 --> 00:35:18,826 NICE SHOES. 708 00:35:18,893 --> 00:35:21,195 >> Wertheim: "NIGHT SHIFT," DIRECTED BY RON HOWARD, MARKED 709 00:35:21,262 --> 00:35:24,999 KEATON'S FIRST MOVIE, AN ELECTRIC, BREAKOUT COMEDIC 710 00:35:25,065 --> 00:35:26,934 PERFORMANCE, ONE THAT STILL HOLDS UP. 711 00:35:27,001 --> 00:35:28,369 >> Keaton: I NEED THE CAR KEYS. 712 00:35:28,435 --> 00:35:28,702 YOU GOT THEM? 713 00:35:28,769 --> 00:35:31,672 THANK YOU. 714 00:35:31,739 --> 00:35:34,575 >> Wertheim: WITH LICENSE TO IMPROV, HE STEALS SCENE AFTER 715 00:35:34,642 --> 00:35:37,511 SCENE AS BILL BLAZEJOWSKI, THE ANTIC-FRANTIC MORGUE ATTENDANT 716 00:35:37,578 --> 00:35:40,581 MOONLIGHTING AS A PIMP. 717 00:35:40,648 --> 00:35:41,215 >> Keaton: LOVE BROKERS, HA, HA! 718 00:35:41,282 --> 00:35:43,751 >> Wertheim: YOU SEEMED TO GET THAT GUY. 719 00:35:43,817 --> 00:35:45,185 >> Keaton: YEAH, I GOT THAT GUY. 720 00:35:45,252 --> 00:35:48,088 IT WAS KIND OF THERE ON THE PAGE. 721 00:35:48,155 --> 00:35:49,390 YOU KNOW, THE-- LIKE, I'M AN IDEA MAN, THAT WAS THE 722 00:35:49,456 --> 00:35:50,925 FUNDAMENTAL THING. 723 00:35:50,991 --> 00:35:52,593 THIS IS BILL. 724 00:35:52,660 --> 00:35:56,030 IDEA TO ELIMINATE GARBAGE: EDIBLE PAPER. 725 00:35:56,096 --> 00:35:58,098 AND THEY WERE WELCOMING IN ALL THE IMPROV. 726 00:35:58,165 --> 00:35:59,767 >> Wertheim: YOU COULD BRING YOUR IMPROV CHOPS. 727 00:35:59,833 --> 00:36:00,534 >> Keaton: YEAH, YEAH. 728 00:36:00,601 --> 00:36:01,168 YEAH, THEY WERE GOOD ABOUT THAT. 729 00:36:01,235 --> 00:36:02,403 >> Wertheim: KIND OF THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. 730 00:36:02,469 --> 00:36:03,137 YOU'RE NOT DOING STAND-UP. 731 00:36:03,203 --> 00:36:04,672 BUT, LIKE-- >> Keaton: 100%. 732 00:36:04,738 --> 00:36:07,374 >> Wertheim: HE WOULD LEAN ON THOSE SKILLS ONE YEAR LATER, IN 733 00:36:07,441 --> 00:36:08,642 "MR. MOM." 734 00:36:08,709 --> 00:36:10,611 >> Keaton: WE'RE GOING TO RIP THESE WALLS OUT, AND THEN, OF 735 00:36:10,678 --> 00:36:11,011 COURSE, REWIRE IT. 736 00:36:11,078 --> 00:36:13,480 >> Ron Richardson: YEAH, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE IT ALL 220? 737 00:36:13,547 --> 00:36:16,650 >> Keaton: YEAH, 220, 221, WHATEVER IT TAKES. 738 00:36:16,717 --> 00:36:20,487 >> Wertheim: BUT RIGHT BEFORE HOLLYWOOD COULD CORNER KEATON 739 00:36:20,554 --> 00:36:25,259 SOLELY AS A COMEDIC ACTOR, HE SWIVELED IN THE OPPOSITE 740 00:36:25,326 --> 00:36:28,462 DIRECTION, WITH MOVIES LIKE "CLEAN AND SOBER" AND THE 741 00:36:28,529 --> 00:36:29,029 THRILLER "PACIFIC HEIGHTS." 742 00:36:29,096 --> 00:36:30,898 NOT A LOT OF TYPECASTING HERE. 743 00:36:30,965 --> 00:36:32,366 ACCIDENT OR DESIGN? 744 00:36:32,433 --> 00:36:34,668 >> Keaton: I WANTED TO SET IT UP SO THAT I HAD MORE SHOTS. 745 00:36:34,735 --> 00:36:37,705 I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO PLAY A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. 746 00:36:37,771 --> 00:36:40,307 BECAUSE, I LEARNED REAL QUICKLY THAT THEY WERE GOING, "OH, WE 747 00:36:40,374 --> 00:36:40,841 LIKE WHEN HE DOES THAT. 748 00:36:40,908 --> 00:36:41,275 GET HIM TO DO THAT. 749 00:36:41,342 --> 00:36:44,645 LET'S HIRE HIM TO DO THAT THING." 750 00:36:44,712 --> 00:36:46,647 I THOUGHT, "OH BOY, THAT COULD, I THINK, FRANKLY, I WOULD HAVE 751 00:36:46,714 --> 00:36:47,915 BEEN OUT OF THE BUSINESS." 752 00:36:47,982 --> 00:36:52,653 PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN, IF THEY'RE NOT BORED ALREADY, BORED 753 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:53,253 TO TEARS EARLY WITH ME. 754 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,691 >> Wertheim: THIS OVERLAY OF LIGHT AND DARK CONVINCED 755 00:36:57,758 --> 00:37:01,228 DIRECTOR TIM BURTON THAT MICHAEL KEATON WAS RIGHT FOR THE LEAD IN 756 00:37:01,295 --> 00:37:04,732 HIS NEXT BIG BUDGET MOVIE: "BATMAN." 757 00:37:04,798 --> 00:37:09,336 KEATON WOULD EMBODY BRUCE WAYNE AS A COMPLICATED, EVEN TORMENTED 758 00:37:09,403 --> 00:37:10,738 TYCOON, HELL-BENT ON JUSTICE. 759 00:37:10,804 --> 00:37:14,508 HARDCORE FANS OF THE DC COMIC HERO WERE HORRIFIED ABOUT 760 00:37:14,575 --> 00:37:16,710 CASTING MR. MOM AS THE CAPED CRUSADER. 761 00:37:16,777 --> 00:37:20,214 >> Man: WHAT ARE YOU? 762 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:21,315 >> Keaton: I'M BATMAN. 763 00:37:21,382 --> 00:37:22,716 YOU KNOW, I HAVE A LONG MEMORY. 764 00:37:22,783 --> 00:37:25,853 YOU KNOW, SO A COUPLE OCCASIONS WHERE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WERE 765 00:37:25,919 --> 00:37:29,356 KIND OF-- NOT JUST, MAYBE DID MORE THAN DOUBT YOU. 766 00:37:29,423 --> 00:37:31,792 YOU GO, "OKAY, I'LL WAIT." 767 00:37:31,859 --> 00:37:33,661 >> Wertheim: PEERS, OR REVIEWERS, OR? 768 00:37:33,727 --> 00:37:36,263 >> Keaton: JUST THINGS THAT HAPPENED A COUPLE TIMES. 769 00:37:36,330 --> 00:37:36,897 YOU JUST KIND OF CLOCK IT. 770 00:37:36,964 --> 00:37:38,699 >> Wertheim: YOU REMEMBER THAT STUFF. 771 00:37:38,766 --> 00:37:39,733 >> Keaton: YEAH. 772 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,335 >> Wertheim: SO YOU'RE COMING INTO THIS ROLE, AND YOU'RE THE 773 00:37:41,402 --> 00:37:43,837 NEW BATMAN. 774 00:37:43,904 --> 00:37:45,305 >> Keaton: YEAH, YEAH. 775 00:37:45,372 --> 00:37:46,240 NO, I AM THE-- BATMAN. 776 00:37:46,306 --> 00:37:46,874 >> Wertheim: YOU'RE THE BATMAN. 777 00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:47,508 BUT YOU'VE GOT THIS LINEAGE... 778 00:37:47,574 --> 00:37:48,876 >> Keaton: YEAH. 779 00:37:48,942 --> 00:37:49,410 LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT. 780 00:37:49,476 --> 00:37:51,445 NO, I'M KIDDING. 781 00:37:51,512 --> 00:37:54,915 ( LAUGHS ) BATMAN, THE FIRST BATMAN, I 782 00:37:54,982 --> 00:37:57,317 THINK TIM AND I BOTH KNEW IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, THAT ONE, I 783 00:37:57,384 --> 00:37:58,786 HAD AWARENESS OF. 784 00:37:58,852 --> 00:38:00,421 I THOUGHT, "OOH, THIS-- THIS COULD REALLY FAIL." 785 00:38:00,487 --> 00:38:02,322 ( LAUGHS ) >> Wertheim: YEAH, I MEAN, IT 786 00:38:02,389 --> 00:38:03,924 STRIKES ME, THAT'S ANOTHER RISK OF A DIFFERENT KIND, RIGHT? 787 00:38:03,991 --> 00:38:04,792 >> Keaton: YEAH. 788 00:38:04,858 --> 00:38:05,392 YEAH. 789 00:38:05,459 --> 00:38:08,462 THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON THAT MOVIE FOR EVERYBODY. 790 00:38:08,529 --> 00:38:13,400 >> Wertheim: HOLY GAMBLE-THAT- PAID-OFF, BATMAN. 791 00:38:13,467 --> 00:38:16,804 THE MOVIE MADE MORE THAN $400 MILLION AND CATAPULTED KEATON TO 792 00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:19,840 A NEW PLANE OF STARDOM-- PROOF THAT RESISTING CONVENTIONAL 793 00:38:19,907 --> 00:38:21,608 HOLLYWOOD WISDOM HAD ITS ADVANTAGES. 794 00:38:21,675 --> 00:38:26,747 KEATON CONTINUED HIS GAME OF CHARACTER HOPSCOTCH IN ANOTHER 795 00:38:26,814 --> 00:38:28,849 30 MOVIES, FROM SHAKESPEARE TO "SPOTLIGHT." 796 00:38:28,916 --> 00:38:33,387 SOME BROUGHT MORE BOX OFFICE SUCCESS THAN OTHERS. 797 00:38:33,454 --> 00:38:37,057 BUT WHEN HE WASN'T ACTING, KEATON WAS A HANDS-ON DAD TO HIS 798 00:38:37,124 --> 00:38:39,426 SON SEAN, WHO IS NOW 38 AND A SUCCESSFUL SONGWRITER IN LOS 799 00:38:39,493 --> 00:38:40,394 ANGELES. 800 00:38:40,461 --> 00:38:45,399 AND KEATON HAD REACHED A POINT WHERE HE COULD BE CHOOSY. 801 00:38:45,466 --> 00:38:50,938 IN 2014, ENTER "BIRDMAN," AND KEATON'S ALMOST ABSURDIST ROLE 802 00:38:51,004 --> 00:38:52,606 THAT EARNED HIM A GOLDEN GLOBE FOR BEST ACTOR. 803 00:38:52,673 --> 00:38:53,107 HARDEST ROLE YOU'VE HAD? 804 00:38:53,173 --> 00:38:54,575 >> Keaton: MOSTLY, YEAH. 805 00:38:54,641 --> 00:38:57,611 IT HAD TO BE SO SPECIFIC, AND SO PRECISE. 806 00:38:57,678 --> 00:39:00,914 YOU ACTUALLY HAD TO BE, LIKE, ON A CERTAIN WORD, OR A POINT IN 807 00:39:00,981 --> 00:39:04,852 THE SENTENCE, AND GEOGRAPHICALLY IN A SPOT. 808 00:39:04,918 --> 00:39:09,323 LIKE, ON-- IN A HALLWAY OR DOWN A SET OF STAIRS. 809 00:39:09,389 --> 00:39:09,857 SPECIFICALLY WORD PERFECT. 810 00:39:09,923 --> 00:39:10,858 AND IT WAS REALLY HARD. 811 00:39:10,924 --> 00:39:13,460 SCARY EVERY DAY. 812 00:39:13,527 --> 00:39:15,796 >> Wertheim: DO PEOPLE IN YOUR LINE OF WORK HAVE RIVALS, LIKE 813 00:39:15,863 --> 00:39:16,797 ATHLETES? 814 00:39:16,864 --> 00:39:17,998 I MEAN, ARE YOU, YOU KNOW, "HEY, BILL MURRAY, I'M COMING FOR 815 00:39:18,065 --> 00:39:19,299 YOU"? 816 00:39:19,366 --> 00:39:20,334 >> Keaton: I DON'T KNOW. 817 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:21,468 YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE THING. 818 00:39:21,535 --> 00:39:22,870 THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO. 819 00:39:22,936 --> 00:39:25,038 YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T GO, LIKE, BOX EACH OTHER. 820 00:39:25,105 --> 00:39:27,040 ( LAUGHS ) YOU KNOW, I MEAN. 821 00:39:27,107 --> 00:39:28,842 WE'RE ALL IN A BROTHER AND SISTERHOOD TO SOME DEGREE, YOU 822 00:39:28,909 --> 00:39:29,510 KNOW? 823 00:39:29,576 --> 00:39:33,313 LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE CRITICISM OF PEOPLE'S PERFORMANCES I FIND 824 00:39:33,380 --> 00:39:33,914 REALLY BUSH LEAGUE, YOU KNOW? 825 00:39:33,981 --> 00:39:37,417 IT'S LIKE, "WHAT DO I KNOW?" I'M NOT SURE I EVEN KNOW ENOUGH. 826 00:39:37,484 --> 00:39:37,951 AND I'M NOT BEING HUMBLE. 827 00:39:38,018 --> 00:39:40,621 I'M BEING HONEST. 828 00:39:40,687 --> 00:39:41,855 I DON'T-- I DON'T KNOW THAT I EVEN KNOW ENOUGH TO SAY, "WELL, 829 00:39:41,922 --> 00:39:44,892 THAT'S NOT ANY GOOD." 830 00:39:44,958 --> 00:39:46,860 >> Wertheim: IN HIS LATEST PROJECT, KEATON IS BACK TO 831 00:39:46,927 --> 00:39:49,463 INTERPRETING THE AMERICAN MALE. 832 00:39:49,530 --> 00:39:52,866 "DOPESICK," OUT THIS MONTH, IS A HULU MINI-SERIES ABOUT THE 833 00:39:52,933 --> 00:39:54,535 COUNTRY'S OPIOID EPIDEMIC. 834 00:39:54,601 --> 00:39:56,770 >> Keaton: I WOULD NEVER PRESCRIBE A NARCOTIC FOR 835 00:39:56,837 --> 00:39:57,437 MODERATE PAIN. 836 00:39:57,504 --> 00:40:01,441 >> Wertheim: KEATON PLAYS A DOCTOR IN A COAL-MINING TOWN 837 00:40:01,508 --> 00:40:03,143 OVERWHELMED BY OXYCONTIN. 838 00:40:03,210 --> 00:40:05,445 BUT THIS TIME, HE ADMITS THERE'S A LITTLE MORE TO THE PART. 839 00:40:05,512 --> 00:40:09,983 >> Keaton: YOU KNOW, THAT MEANS A LOT TO ME, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, 840 00:40:10,050 --> 00:40:13,220 I LOST A NEPHEW TO FENTANYL AND HEROIN. 841 00:40:13,287 --> 00:40:16,223 >> Wertheim: WHAT'S IT LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF PERSONAL 842 00:40:16,290 --> 00:40:16,857 CONNECTION TO A ROLE? 843 00:40:16,924 --> 00:40:21,461 >> Keaton: YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THE EMOTION AND JUST, LIKE I 844 00:40:21,528 --> 00:40:25,465 KEEP SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S-- WHAT'S THE JOB AT HAND, YOU 845 00:40:25,532 --> 00:40:28,869 KNOW, WHAT'S-- I'M JUST A STORYTELLER. 846 00:40:28,936 --> 00:40:32,673 >> Wertheim: BEFITTING A MAN WHO PIVOTS FROM ROLE TO ROLE, KEATON 847 00:40:32,739 --> 00:40:34,007 IS ESPECIALLY THRILLED BY PITTSBURGH'S TRANSITION FROM 848 00:40:34,074 --> 00:40:36,810 STEEL TO TECH. 849 00:40:36,877 --> 00:40:40,514 HE RETURNS HOME OFTEN, AND INVITED US TO A MODIFIED STEEL 850 00:40:40,581 --> 00:40:44,985 MILL-TURNED-INNOVATION CENTER NOT FAR FROM WHERE HE GREW UP. 851 00:40:45,052 --> 00:40:48,555 KEATON IS AN INVESTOR IN A CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, NEXII, 852 00:40:48,622 --> 00:40:51,358 THAT HERE IN PITTSBURGH PLANS TO MAKE ECO-FRIENDLY ALTERNATIVES 853 00:40:51,425 --> 00:40:52,860 TO CONCRETE. 854 00:40:52,926 --> 00:40:53,460 >> Keaton: I GET THIS. 855 00:40:53,527 --> 00:40:57,464 AND I ACTUALLY LIKE IT. 856 00:40:57,531 --> 00:41:01,268 AND IF I'M GOING TO-- MAN, JUST LOOK AT THIS SUMMER. 857 00:41:01,335 --> 00:41:04,938 IF I'M GOING TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO ANYTHING AND 858 00:41:05,005 --> 00:41:07,674 PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS, YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE AN OPINION 859 00:41:07,741 --> 00:41:08,442 ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE ANYMORE. 860 00:41:08,508 --> 00:41:09,042 IT'S, LIKE, HERE, NOW. 861 00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:10,744 >> Wertheim: THE BILL'S COME DUE, HUH? 862 00:41:10,811 --> 00:41:11,245 >> Keaton: THAT'S RIGHT. 863 00:41:11,311 --> 00:41:13,513 THE BILL'S-- THE BILL'S COME DUE. 864 00:41:13,580 --> 00:41:16,450 >> Wertheim: KEATON WOULD HAPPILY SPEND MORE TIME HERE-- 865 00:41:16,516 --> 00:41:20,520 AND IN MONTANA-- IF IT WEREN'T FOR THAT PESKY DAY JOB. 866 00:41:20,587 --> 00:41:22,623 HE JUST FINISHED FILMING "THE FLASH," REPRISING HIS ROLE AS 867 00:41:22,689 --> 00:41:25,525 BATMAN, 30 YEARS AFTER HE LEFT THE FRANCHISE. 868 00:41:25,592 --> 00:41:28,929 AND WE HAD TO KNOW-- BUT, IS THIS BRUCE WAYNE STILL THE 869 00:41:28,996 --> 00:41:33,533 TORTURED, SOMEWHAT DARK FIGURE HE WAS, AS WE RECALL? 870 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,935 >> Keaton: ISH. 871 00:41:35,002 --> 00:41:40,908 HE'S KIND OF-- YOU KNOW, I CAN'T GIVE TOO MUCH OF THIS AWAY. 872 00:41:40,974 --> 00:41:42,843 I'M ONE OF THOSE GUYS WHO GOES, "WELL, I-- I-- I'M NOT GIVING 873 00:41:42,910 --> 00:41:43,810 THAT ( BLEEP ) AWAY." 874 00:41:43,877 --> 00:41:44,678 GO SEE THE MOVIE. 875 00:41:44,745 --> 00:41:46,914 >> Wertheim: HOW'S THE COSTUME FIT? 876 00:41:46,980 --> 00:41:49,516 >> Keaton: PROUD TO SAY, I SLIPPED RIGHT BACK INTO IT. 877 00:41:49,583 --> 00:41:52,552 >> Wertheim: YOU'RE 70 YEARS OLD, AND YOU'RE STILL KICKING 878 00:41:52,619 --> 00:41:52,920 BAD GUYS' ASS. 879 00:41:52,986 --> 00:41:55,088 THAT'S GOT TO FEEL GOOD. 880 00:41:55,155 --> 00:41:56,123 >> Keaton: YEAH. 881 00:41:56,189 --> 00:41:57,524 IF YOU KNOW ANYBODY WHOSE ASS NEEDS KICKED, JUST DON'T CALL 882 00:41:57,591 --> 00:41:58,592 ME. 883 00:41:58,659 --> 00:42:03,363 ( LAUGHS ) ( TICKING ) 884 00:42:07,634 --> 00:42:09,803 >> Whitaker: WITH THE DEATH OF GENERAL COLIN POWELL THIS PAST 885 00:42:09,870 --> 00:42:13,807 WEEK, AMERICA LOST ONE MORE OF ITS DWINDLING SUPPLY OF WISE 886 00:42:13,874 --> 00:42:17,511 MEN, AND WISE WOMEN-- WASHINGTON HANDS WITH SEASONED PERSPECTIVE 887 00:42:17,577 --> 00:42:21,448 WHO COULD TELL A PRESIDENT WHEN HE IS WRONG. 888 00:42:21,515 --> 00:42:23,216 LIKE GENERAL POWELL, THEY WEREN'T ALWAYS RIGHT, BUT COULD 889 00:42:23,283 --> 00:42:28,155 BE TRUSTED TO HOLD THE NATION'S INTEREST ABOVE PERSONAL 890 00:42:28,221 --> 00:42:29,222 AMBITION. 891 00:42:29,289 --> 00:42:32,693 SAM NUNN, OLYMPIA SNOWE, AND GEORGE MITCHELL CAME FROM THE 892 00:42:32,759 --> 00:42:33,460 SENATE. 893 00:42:33,527 --> 00:42:37,798 JIM BAKER WAS AN ESTABLISHMENT LAWYER. 894 00:42:37,864 --> 00:42:40,767 A FEW WERE FROM WALL STREET, OR, LIKE GENERAL POWELL, FROM THE 895 00:42:40,834 --> 00:42:41,201 MILITARY. 896 00:42:41,268 --> 00:42:45,806 LAST SUNDAY ON THIS BROADCAST, WE HEARD FROM ANOTHER, ROBERT 897 00:42:45,872 --> 00:42:47,374 GATES, WHO ROSE THROUGH THE NATIONAL SECURITY AND 898 00:42:47,441 --> 00:42:49,810 INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITIES. 899 00:42:49,876 --> 00:42:53,213 MOST OF THEM ARE NOW RETIRED OR GONE. 900 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,516 WE CAN ONLY WONDER IF THE PRESENT STATE OF AMERICAN 901 00:42:56,583 --> 00:42:59,219 POLITICS IS CAPABLE OF PRODUCING THEIR SUCCESSORS. 902 00:42:59,286 --> 00:43:01,788 I'M BILL WHITAKER. 903 00:43:01,855 --> 00:43:06,960 WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH