(\TICKING\) THE NOVEMBER 3 ELECTION WAS THE MOST SECURE
IN AMERICAN HISTORY. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY VOTING
SYSTEM DELETED OR LOST VOTES OR CHANGED VOTES OR WAS
IN ANY WAY COMPROMISED. YEAH, I STAND BY THAT.
THE PRESIDENT TWEETED AFTER THAT STATEMENT, "THE RECENT STATEMENT
BY CHRIS KREBS ON THE SECURITY OF THE 2020 ELECTION
WAS HIGHLY INACCURATE." DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID
AT THE END OF THAT TWEET? OH, I WAS
TERMINATED? YES. I RECALL THAT. (\TICKING\) WE HAVE TO
DO SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LEGACY OF THOSE
PEOPLE IN THAT CARGO HOLD NEVER EVER IS FORGOTTEN.
FOR 160 YEARS THIS MUDDY STRETCH OF THE MOBILE RIVER,
HAS COVERED UP A CRIME. IN JULY, 1860, THE "CLOTILDA"
WAS TOWED HERE, UNDER COVER OF DARKNESS. IMPRISONED IN ITS
CRAMPED CARGO HOLD, 110 ENSLAVED AFRICANS. SONAR IS ON.
ZERO PRESSURE. GOOD TO DROP. THAT'S IT RIGHT THERE?
YES. OH, YOU CAN SEE IT TOTALLY CLEARLY.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE SHIP? YES. (\TICKING\) JAMES
CORDEN PUT "THE LATE LATE SHOW" ON THE MAP AND
MADE IT A MUST-SEE STOP ON YOUTUBE WHEN THE COMEDIAN/SONG
AND DANCE MAN DECIDED TO TURN CARPOOLING INTO THIS. THIS
IS LIKE A CULTURAL PHENOMENON. YOU'RE MAKING ME FEEL
INCREDIBLY BRITISH BY NOT BEING ABLE TO LOOK YOU IN
THE EYE DURING A COMPLIMENT OR ANY KIND OF RECOGNITION
OF SUCCESS. (\TICKING\) I'M LESLEY STAHL. I'M BILL
WHITAKER. I'M ANDERSON COOPER. I'M NORAH O'DONNELL.
I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES, TONIGHT, ON "60 MINUTES." (\TICKING\)
HAS BEGUN, PRESIDENT TRUMP REMAINS LARGELY HOLED UP IN THE
WHITE HOUSE TWEETING FALSE ACCUSATIONS OF A RIGGED ELECTION FROM
BEHIND A CRUMBLING WALL OF LAWSUITS. NO LEGAL CHALLENGE, NO
RECOUNT, NO AUDIT HAS CHANGED THE OUTCOME IN ANY STATE.
MR. TRUMP'S CLAIM THAT MILLIONS OF VOTES WERE DELETED OR
SWITCHED IS DENIED BY THE OFFICIAL HE CHOSE TO SECURE
THE NATION'S ELECTION SYSTEMS. CHRISTOPHER KREBS CALLED THE 2020 VOTE
"THE MOST SECURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY" WHICH PROMPTLY GOT HIM
FIRED. TONIGHT, IN HIS FIRST INTERVIEW SINCE HE WAS DISMISSED,
KREBS TELLS US WHY HE BELIEVES THE VOTE WAS ACCURATE
AND WHY SAYING OTHERWISE PUTS THE COUNTRY IN DANGER.
Christopher Krebs: I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE SECURITY OF THIS
ELECTION, BECAUSE I KNOW THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE FOR
FOUR YEARS IN SUPPORT OF OUR STATE AND LOCAL PARTNERS.
I KNOW THE WORK THAT THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY HAS DONE,
THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HAS DONE, THAT THE FBI HAS
DONE, THAT MY TEAM HAS DONE. I KNOW THAT THESE
SYSTEMS ARE MORE SECURE. I KNOW BASED ON WHAT WE
HAVE SEEN THAT ANY ATTACKS ON THE ELECTION WERE NOT
SUCCESSFUL. Pelley: TWO YEARS AGO, PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT CHRISTOPHER
KREBS IN CHARGE OF THE NEW CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY
AGENCY. KREBS, A LIFELONG REPUBLICAN, WAS CONFIRMED UNANIMOUSLY BY THE
SENATE. HIS AGENCY, KNOWN BY ITS ACRONYM, "CISA" HELPS SECURE
COMPUTER SYSTEMS ANYWHERE THAT A SECURITY BREECH COULD BE CATASTROPHIC,
NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS FOR EXAMPLE, AND THE ELECTION HARDWARE IN
ALL 50 STATES. WHY ARE YOU SPEAKING TO US?
Krebs: I'M NOT A PUBLIC SERVANT ANYMORE, BUT I FEEL
I STILL GOT SOME PUBLIC SERVICE LEFT IN ME. AND,
YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD ONCE YOU TAKE THAT OATH TO
UPHOLD AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION FROM THREATS FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC,
IT'S HARD TO WALK AWAY FROM THAT. AND IF I
CAN REINFORCE OR CONFIRM FOR ONE PERSON THAT THE VOTE
WAS SECURE, THE ELECTION WAS SECURE, THEN I FEEL LIKE
I'VE DONE MY JOB. Pelley: KREBS, WHO'S 43, WORKED
ON CYBERSECURITY IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, BECAME DIRECTOR OF CYBERSECURITY
POLICY AT MICROSOFT AND JOINED THE TRUMP DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY IN 2017. HIS PRIORITY WAS TO STOP ANYONE FROM
REPEATING RUSSIA'S 2016 ELECTION HACKING AND DISINFORMATION. Krebs: SO,
WE SPENT SOMETHING ON THE ORDER OF THREE AND A
HALF YEARS OF GAMING OUT EVERY POSSIBLE SCENARIO FOR HOW
A FOREIGN ACTOR COULD INTERFERE WITH AN ELECTION. COUNTLESS, COUNTLESS
SCENARIOS. Pelley: SO, BACK IN 2017, AS YOU'RE LOOKING
AHEAD TO THE ELECTION IN 2018 AND THEN ULTIMATELY THE
ELECTION IN 2020, YOU HAVE A TO-DO LIST. AND THE
TO-DO LIST INCLUDES WHAT? Krebs: PAPER BALLOTS. PAPER BALLOTS
GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO AUDIT, TO GO BACK AND
CHECK THE TAPE AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU GOT THE
COUNT RIGHT. AND THAT'S REALLY ONE OF THE KEYS TO
SUCCESS FOR A SECURE 2020 ELECTION. 95% OF THE BALLOTS
CAST IN THE 2020 ELECTION HAD A PAPER RECORD ASSOCIATED
WITH IT. COMPARED TO 2016, ABOUT 82%. Pelley: AND
WITH A PAPER RECORD, YOU CAN GO BACK AND VERIFY
WHAT THE MACHINE IS SAYING BY PHYSICALLY COUNTING THE PAPER?
Krebs: THAT GIVES YOU THE ABILITY TO PROVE THAT
THERE WAS NO MALICIOUS ALGORITHM OR HACKED SOFTWARE THAT ADJUSTED
THE TALLY OF THE VOTE. AND JUST LOOK AT WHAT
HAPPENED IN GEORGIA. GEORGIA HAS MACHINES THAT TABULATE THE VOTE.
THEY THEN HELD A HAND RECOUNT AND THE OUTCOME WAS
CONSISTENT WITH THE MACHINE VOTE. Pelley: AND THAT TELLS
YOU WHAT? Krebs: THAT TELLS YOU THAT THERE WAS
NO MANIPULATION OF THE VOTE ON THE MACHINE COUNT SIDE.
AND SO, THAT PRETTY THOROUGHLY, IN MY OPINION, DEBUNKS SOME
OF THESE SENSATIONAL CLAIMS OUT THERE-- THAT I'VE CALLED NONSENSE
AND A HOAX, THAT THERE IS SOME HACKING OF THESE
ELECTION-- VENDORS AND THEIR SOFTWARE AND THEIR SYSTEMS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY. IT'S-- IT'S JUST-- IT'S NONSENSE. Pelley: BEFORE THE
ELECTION, AS THE PRESIDENT CALLED MAIL-IN BALLOTS A FRAUD, KREBS'
TEAM RELEASED A REPORT HIGHLIGHTING THE SAFEGUARDS BUILT INTO MAIL-
IN VOTING. HIS AGENCY KNOCKED DOWN RUMORS AND EXPOSED AN
IRANIAN PLOT TO INTIMIDATE VOTERS. ON ELECTION DAY, KREBS ASSEMBLED
A TEAM IN HIS COMMAND CENTER TO DEFEND THE VOTE.
Krebs: WE HAD THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE CYBER COMMAND.
WE HAD THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY. WE HAD THE F.B.I.
WE HAD THE SECRET SERVICE. WE ALSO HAD REPRESENTATIVES FROM
THE ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION, WHICH IS THE FEDERAL INDEPENDENT AGENCY
THAT SUPPORTS THE ACTUAL ADMINISTRATION OF ELECTIONS. WE HAD REPRESENTATIVES
FROM SOME OF THE-- VENDORS, THE ELECTION EQUIPMENT VENDORS. AND
THEY'RE CRITICAL BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES OUT THERE THAT KNOW
WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE GROUND IF THERE'S ANY SORT
OF ISSUE WITH SOME OF THEIR SYSTEMS. AND WE HAD
REPRESENTATIVES FROM STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. Pelley: HOW DID
THE DAY GO? Krebs: IT WAS QUIET. AND THERE
WAS NO INDICATION OR EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS ANY SORT
OF HACKING OR COMPROMISE OF ELECTION SYSTEMS ON, BEFORE OR
AFTER NOVEMBER 3. Stephen: AND YET, THIS WAS THE
PRESIDENT NOVEMBER 5. President Trump: AND THIS IS A
CASE WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO STEAL AN ELECTION, THEY'RE TRYING
TO RIG AN ELECTION. Pelley: NINE DAYS AFTER ELECTION
DAY, MR. TRUMP TWEETED FALSELY THAT MACHINES FROM DOMINION VOTING
SYSTEMS DELETED MILLIONS OF VOTES. KREBS COULDN'T REMAIN SILENT. HIS
AGENCY AND ITS ELECTION SECURITY PARTNERS ANSWERED WITH A PUBLIC
STATEMENT. TO QUOTE FROM THE NOVEMBER 12 STATEMENT THAT CISA
AND ITS PARTNERS PUT OUT, "THE NOVEMBER 3 ELECTION WAS
THE MOST SECURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE
THAT ANY VOTING SYSTEM DELETED OR LOST VOTES OR CHANGED
VOTES OR WAS IN ANY WAY COMPROMISED." Krebs: YEAH,
I STAND BY THAT. Pelley: THE PRESIDENT TWEETED AFTER
THAT STATEMENT, "THE RECENT STATEMENT BY CHRIS KREBS ON THE
SECURITY OF THE 2020 ELECTION WAS HIGHLY INACCURATE, IN THAT
THERE WERE MASSIVE IMPROPRIETIES AND FRAUD." DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT
THE PRESIDENT SAID AT THE END OF THAT TWEET?
Krebs: OH, I WAS TERMINATED? IS THAT-- YES. I RECALL
THAT. Pelley: WERE YOU SURPRISED? Krebs: I DON'T
KNOW IF I WAS NECESSARILY SURPRISED. IT'S NOT HOW I
WANTED TO GO OUT. I THINK I-- THE THING THAT
UPSETS ME THE MOST ABOUT THAT IS I DIDN'T GET
A S-- CHANCE-- TO SAY GOODBYE TO MY TEAM. AND
I'D WORKED WITH THEM FOR THREE AND A HALF YEARS,
IN THE TRENCHES. BUILDING AN AGENCY, PUTTING CISA ON THE
NATIONAL STAGE. AND I LOVE THAT TEAM. AND I DIDN'T
GET A CHANCE TO SAY GOODBYE, SO THAT'S WHAT I'M
MOST UPSET ABOUT. Pelley: SINCE HE WAS FIRED, ABOUT
A DOZEN REPUBLICAN SENATORS HAVE VOUCHED FOR KREBS' WORK. THE
PRESIDENT'S ESSENTIALLY SAYING IN THAT TWEET THAT YOU DID A
LOUSY JOB, THAT YOU AND YOUR TEAM BLEW IT, AND
ALLOWED MASSIVE FRAUD, ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY. Krebs: WE
DID A GOOD JOB. WE DID IT RIGHT. I'D DO
IT A THOUSAND TIMES OVER. Pelley: STILL, THE PRESIDENT'S
LAWYERS HAVE FILED AT LEAST A DOZEN SUITS AND SPUN
CONJECTURE WITHOUT EVIDENCE. Rudy Giuliani: AND YOU SHOULD BE
MORE ASTOUNDED BY THE FACT THAT OUR VOTES ARE COUNTED
IN GERMANY AND IN SPAIN. Pelley: AS YOU WATCHED
RUDY GIULIANI'S NEWS CONFERENCE AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE HEADQUARTERS,
WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? Krebs: IT WAS UPSETTING, BECAUSE
WHAT I SAW WAS A APPARENT ATTEMPT TO UNDERMINE CONFIDENCE
IN THE ELECTION, TO CONFUSE PEOPLE, TO SCARE PEOPLE. IT'S
NOT ME, IT'S NOT JUST CISA. IT'S THE TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF ELECTION WORKERS OUT THERE THAT HAD BEEN WORKING
NONSTOP, 18- HOUR DAYS, FOR MONTHS. THEY'RE GETTING DEATH THREATS
FOR TRYING TO CARRY OUT ONE OF OUR CORE DEMOCRATIC
AN ELECTION. AND THAT WAS, AGAIN, TO ME, A PRESS
CONFERENCE THAT I JUST-- IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. WHAT IT
WAS ACTIVELY DOING WAS UNDERMINING DEMOCRACY. AND THAT'S DANGEROUS.
Pelley: LET ME ASK FOR YOUR REACTION TO SOME OF
THE VOTE FRAUD THAT THE PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM HAVE
BEEN ALLEGING. VOTES TABULATED IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES. Krebs: SO,
ALL VOTES IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ARE COUNTED
IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I DON'T-- I DON'T
UNDERSTAND THIS CLAIM. ALL VOTES IN THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA ARE COUNTED IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. PERIOD.
Pelley: VOTING MACHINES CORRUPTED BY MYSTERIOUS ACTORS IN VENEZUELA.
Krebs: SO, AGAIN, THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY MACHINE
THAT I'M AWARE OF HAS BEEN MANIPULATED BY A FOREIGN
POWER. PERIOD. Pelley: COMMUNIST MONEY FROM CHINA AND CUBA
USED TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION. Krebs: LOOK, I THINK
THESE-- WE CAN GO ON AND ON WITH ALL THE
FARCICAL CLAIMS THAT-- ALLEGING- - INTERFERENCE IN THE 2020 ELECTION,
BUT THE PROOF IS IN THE BALLOTS. THE RECOUNTS ARE
CONSISTENT WITH THE INITIAL COUNT, AND TO ME, THAT'S FURTHER
EVIDENCE, THAT'S CONFIRMATION THAT THE SYSTEMS USED IN THE 2020
ELECTION PERFORMED AS EXPECTED, AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE
100% CONFIDENCE IN THEIR VOTE. Pelley: IN A NEWS
CONFERENCE, A LAWYER WHO WAS REPRESENTING THE PRESIDENT AT THE
TIME, SIDNEY POWELL, SAID SPECIFICALLY THAT THE DOMINION COMPANY'S VOTING
MACHINES, QUOTE: Sidney Powell: IT CAN SET AND RUN
AN ALGORITHM THAT PROBABLY RAN ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO
TAKE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF VOTES FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP AND
FLIP THEM TO PRESIDENT BIDEN. Krebs: VOTES WERE CAST
IN GEORGIA, FOR INSTANCE, AGAIN, ON PAPER. THEY WERE COUNTED
BY A MACHINE. THEY WERE SUBSEQUENTLY RECOUNTED BY HAND. THE
OUTCOMES OF THAT COUNT WERE CONSISTENT. IF THERE WAS AN
ALGORITHM THAT WAS FLIPPING VOTES OR CHANGING VOTES, IT DIDN'T
WORK. I THINK THE MORE LIKELY EXPLANATION, THOUGH, IS THAT
THERE IS NO ALGORITHM, THAT THE SYSTEMS PERFORMED AS INTENDED,
THAT THE SERIES OF SECURITY CONTROLS BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER
AN ELECTION PROTECTED THOSE SYSTEMS FROM ANY SORT OF MISBEHAVIOR.
Pelley: MOST ELECTIONS ARE RUN BY EACH STATE'S SECRETARY
OF STATE, BUT NOT ONE OF THEM, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN,
HAS REPORTED BALLOT RIGGING THAT WOULD CHANGE THE ELECTION. SOME
ARE PAYING A PRICE FOR INTEGRITY. Krebs: AND IT'S,
IN MY VIEW, A TRAVESTY, WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW WITH
ALL THESE DEATH THREATS TO ELECTION OFFICIALS, TO SECRETARIES OF
STATE. I WANT EVERYBODY TO LOOK AT SECRETARY BOOCKVAR IN
PENNSYLVANIA, SECRETARY BENSON IN MICHIGAN, SECRETARY CEGAVSKE IN NEVADA, SECRETARY
HOBBS IN ARIZONA. ALL STRONG WOMEN THAT ARE STANDING UP,
THAT ARE UNDER ATTACK FROM ALL SIDES, AND THEY'RE DEFENDING
DEMOCRACY. THEY'RE DOING THEIR JOBS. LOOK AT-- LOOK AT SECRETARY
RAFFENSPERGER IN GEORGIA, LIFELONG REPUBLICAN. HE PUT COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY
IN HIS HOLDING A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION IN THAT
STATE. THERE ARE SOME REAL HEROES OUT THERE. THERE ARE
SOME REAL PATRIOTS. Pelley: AT THE CAPITOL, THE STAGE
IS GOING UP FOR INAUGURATION DAY, JANUARY 20. WELL BEFORE
THAT, ON DECEMBER 14, THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS WILL CAST THEIR
BALLOTS-- WHICH SHOULD SETTLE THE ELECTION. CHRISTOPHER KREBS TOLD US
IT'S IRONIC THAT THE DISRUPTION AND DISINFORMATION HE FEARED FROM
ABROAD CAME, INSTEAD, FROM PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE. THE PRESIDENT SAYS YOU'RE
DEAD WRONG ABOUT ELECTION SECURITY, AND TO HIM YOU SAY
WHAT? Krebs: THERE IS NO FOREIGN POWER THAT IS
FLIPPING VOTES. THERE'S NO DOMESTIC ACTOR FLIPPING VOTES. I DID
IT RIGHT. WE DID IT RIGHT. THIS WAS A SECURE
ELECTION. (\TICKING\) Cooper: TWO YEARS AGO, A SUNKEN SHIP
WAS FOUND IN THE BOTTOM OF AN ALABAMA RIVER. IT
TURNED OUT TO BE THE LONG LOST WRECK OF THE
"CLOTILDA," THE LAST SLAVE SHIP KNOWN TO HAVE BROUGHT CAPTURED
AFRICANS TO AMERICA IN 1860. AT LEAST 12 MILLION AFRICANS
WERE SHIPPED TO THE AMERICAS IN THE MORE THAN 350
YEARS OF THE TRANS-ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE, BUT AS YOU'LL HEAR
TONIGHT, THE JOURNEY OF THE 110 CAPTIVE MEN, WOMEN, AND
CHILDREN BROUGHT TO ALABAMA ON THE "CLOTILDA," IS ONE OF
THE BEST DOCUMENTED SLAVE VOYAGES IN HISTORY. THE NAMES OF
THOSE ENSLAVED AFRICANS, AND THEIR STORY, HAS BEEN PASSED DOWN
THROUGH THE GENERATIONS BY THEIR DESCENDANTS, SOME OF WHOM STILL
LIVE JUST A FEW MILES FROM WHERE THE SHIP WAS
FOUND, IN A COMMUNITY CALLED AFRICATOWN. FOR 160 YEARS THIS
MUDDY STRETCH OF THE MOBILE RIVER, HAS COVERED UP A
CRIME. IN JULY, 1860, THE "CLOTILDA" WAS TOWED HERE, UNDER
COVER OF DARKNESS. IMPRISONED IN ITS CRAMPED CARGO HOLD, 110
ENSLAVED AFRICANS. Joycelyn Davis: I JUST IMAGINED MYSELF BEING
ON THAT SHIP, JUST LISTENING TO THE WAVES AND THE
WATER, AND JUST NOT KNOWING WHERE YOU WERE GOING.
Cooper: JOYCEYLN DAVIS, LORNA GAIL WOODS, AND THOMAS GRIFFIN ARE
DIRECT DESCENDANTS OF THIS AFRICAN MAN, OLUALE. ENSLAVED IN ALABAMA,
HIS OWNER CHANGED HIS NAME TO CHARLIE LEWIS. THIS IMAGE
IS FROM AROUND 1900. POLLEE ALLEN, WHOSE AFRICAN NAME WAS
KUPOLLEE, SEEN IN THIS HUNDRED YEAR OLD SKETCH, WAS THE
ANCESTOR OF JEREMY ELLIS AND DARRON PATTERSON. Darron Patterson:
NO CLOTHES. EATING WHERE THEY DEFECATED. ONLY ALLOWED OUTTA THE
CARGO HOLD FOR ONE DAY A WEEK FOR TWO MONTHS.
HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU, DO WE KNOW NOW THAT
COULD'VE SURVIVED SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WITHOUT LOSING THEIR MIND?
Cooper: THERE ARE NO PHOTOGRAPHS OF PAT FRAZIER'S GREAT-GREAT GRANDMOTHER,
LOTTIE DENNISON, BUT CAPRINXIA WALLACE AND HER MOTHER CASSANDRA HAVE
A SURPRISING NUMBER OF PICTURES OF THEIR ANCESTOR, KOSSULA, WHO'S
OWNER CALLED HIM CUDJO LEWIS. WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE
TO BE ABLE TO KNOW WHERE YOU COME FROM, TO
KNOW THE PERSON WHO CAME HERE FIRST? Caprinxia Wallace:
IT'S EMPOWERING, VERY. LIKE, GROWING UP, MY MOM MADE SURE
SHE TOLD ME ALL THE STORIES THAT HER DAD TOLD
HER ABOUT CUDJO. Cooper: CASSANDRA, THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO
YOU TO PASS THAT KNOWLEDGE ALONG? Cassandra: VERY IMPORTANT,
YES. MY DAD SAT US DOWN AND HE WOULD MAKE
US REPEAT "KOSSULU, 'CLOTILDA,' CUDJO LEWIS." Griffin: IT HAS
HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE, AS WELL AS A STORY THAT NEEDS TO
BE TOLD. Cooper: THE STORY OF THE "CLOTILDA" BEGAN
IN 1860, WHEN TIMOTHY MEAHER, A WEALTHY BUSINESSMAN, HIRED CAPTAIN
WILLIAM FOSTER TO ILLEGALLY SMUGGLE A SHIPLOAD OF CAPTIVE AFRICANS
FROM THE KINGDOM OF DAHOMEY, IN WEST AFRICA, TO MOBILE,
ALABAMA. SLAVERY WAS STILL LEGAL IN THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES,
BUT IMPORTING NEW SLAVES INTO AMERICA HAD BEEN OUTLAWED IN
1808. IN HIS JOURNAL, CAPTAIN FOSTER, DESCRIBED PURCHASING THE CAPTIVES
USING "$9,000 IN GOLD AND MERCHANDISE." AS THIS REPLICA SHOWS,
THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS WERE LOCKED, NAKED, IN THE CARGO HOLD
OF THE "CLOTILDA" FOR TWO SICKENING MONTHS. WHEN THEY ARRIVED
IN MOBILE, THEY WERE HANDED OVER TO TIMOTHY MEAHER AND
SEVERAL OTHERS. CAPTAIN FOSTER CLAIMED HE THEN BURNED AND SANK
THE CLOTILDA, BUT EXACTLY WHERE REMAINED A MYSTERY-- UNTIL 2018,
WHEN A LOCAL REPORTER, BEN RAINES, FOUND THE "CLOTILDA" IN
ABOUT 20 FEET OF WATER NOT FAR FROM MOBILE. HE'D
BEEN SEARCHING FOR SEVEN MONTHS, FOLLOWING CLUES IN CAPTAIN FOSTER'S
JOURNAL. THE EXACT LOCATION HASN'T BEEN MADE PUBLIC FOR FEAR
SOMEONE MIGHT VANDALIZE THE SHIP, BUT LAST FEBRUARY THE ALABAMA
HISTORICAL COMMISSION GAVE MARITIME ARCHEOLOGIST JAMES DELGADO, WHO HELPED VERIFY
THE WRECK, PERMISSION TO TAKE US THERE. SO, THE "CLOTILDA"
CAME UP THIS WAY? James Delgado: STRAIGHT UP HERE,
PRACTICALLY IN A STRAIGHT LINE AFTER THEY DROPPED OFF THE
PEOPLE, AND THEN ON ONE SIDE OF THE BANK, SET
HER ON FIRE AND SANK HER. Cooper: SO, HE
WAS TRYING TO DESTROY EVIDENCE OF A CRIME? Delgado:
YES. Cooper: THE BOW OF THE "CLOTILDA" IS NOT
FAR FROM THE SURFACE, BUT THE WATER'S SO MUDDY, THE
ONLY WAY TO SEE IT IS WITH THIS SONAR DEVICE.
SONAR IS ON. ZERO PRESSURE. GOOD TO DROP.
Cooper: SO, WE'RE ALMOST OVER IT NOW? Delgado: YEAH,
WE'RE COMING RIGHT UP ON IT. SO, THAT'S THE
BOW RIGHT THERE? Cooper: THAT'S IT RIGHT THERE?
Delgado: YES. Cooper: OH, YOU CAN SEE IT LIKE
THAT? Delgado: YEAH. Cooper: YOU CAN SEE IT
TOTALLY CLEARLY. I MEAN, THAT'S THE SHIP? Delgado: YES.
YEAH, THAT'S "CLOTILDA." Cooper: ON SONAR THE BOW IS
CLEARLY DEFINED, AS ARE BOTH SIDES OF THE HULL. THE
SHIP IS 86 FEET LONG, BUT THE BACK OF IT,
THE STERN, IS BURIED DEEP IN MUD. THOSE TWO HORIZONTAL
LINES ARE LIKELY THE WALLS OF THE CARGO HOLD WHERE
THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS HAD BEEN PACKED TIGHTLY TOGETHER ON THE
VOYAGE FROM WEST AFRICA. SO, THE HOLD WHERE PEOPLE WERE
HELD, HOW BIG WAS THAT? Delgado: IN TERMS OF
WHERE PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY FIT, FIVE FEET BY ABOUT 20
FEET. Cooper: WAIT A MINUTE. IT WAS ONLY FIVE
FEET HIGH? SO PEOPLE COULD BARELY STAND UP IN THIS
HOLD? Delgado: YES. Cooper: DIVING ON THE WRECK
IS DIFFICULT. UNDERWATER THERE IS ZERO VISIBILITY. YOU CAN'T EVEN
SEE THE SHIP. DELGADO'S TEAM HAS ONLY FELT IT WITH
THEIR HANDS. THEY CALL IT "ARCHEOLOGY BY BRAILLE." THIS IS
THE ONLY IMAGE OUR A PLANK OF WOOD COVERED WITH
WHAT LOOKS LIKE BARNACLES. DELGADO, AND STATE ARCHEOLOGIST STACYE HATHORN,
SHOWED US SOME OF THE ARTIFACTS THEY RETRIEVED. THIS PLANK
OF WOOD IS LIKELY FROM THE HULL OF THE SHIP.
AND THIS IRON BOLT, WITH WOOD ATTACHED, SHOWS EVIDENCE OF
FIRE DAMAGE. Stacye Hathorn: YOU DON'T SEE THE GRAIN
OF THE WOOD. Delgado: IT BASICALLY MAKES A BRIQUETTE.
Cooper: SO, THIS IS EVIDENCE CLEARLY OF, THAT THEY
TRIED TO BURN THE SHIP? Hathorn: YES. Delgado:
YES. Cooper: THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS WERE TAKEN OFF THE
SHIP BEFORE IT SANK, BUT DELGADO SAYS THERE COULD STILL
BE D.N.A. FROM SOME OF THEM IN THE WRECK.
Delgado: YOU WILL FIND HUMAN HAIR. YOU CAN FIND NAIL
CLIPPINGS. SOMEBODY MAY HAVE LOST A TOOTH. Cooper: YOU
COULD STILL FIND HUMAN HAIR IN THE WRECK OF THE
"CLOTILDA?" Delgado: YES. Cooper: THE STATE OF ALABAMA
HAS SET ASIDE A MILLION DOLLARS FOR FURTHER EXCAVATION TO
DETERMINE IF THE "CLOTILDA" CAN EVER BE RAISED FROM THE
RIVERBED. THE SHIP MAY BE TOO DAMAGED OR THE EFFORT
TOO EXPENSIVE. Mary Elliott: I THINK WHAT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT
FOR FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT, THAT THERE WAS A
CONCERTED EFFORT TO HIDE THESE THINGS THAT WERE DONE.
Cooper: MARY ELLIOTT OVERSEES THE COLLECTION OF SLAVERY ARTIFACTS AT
THE SMITHSONIAN'S NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY AND CULTURE
IN WASHINGTON, D.C. Elliott: IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE FOUND
THE REMNANTS OF THIS SHIP, BECAUSE IT, FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS,
IT'S THEIR PIECE OF THE TRUE CROSS, THEIR TOUCHSTONE TO
SAY, "WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU FOR YEARS. AND HERE'S THE
PROOF." Cooper: REMARKABLY, MANY OF THE DESCENDANTS STILL LIVE
JUST A FEW MILES FROM WHERE THE "CLOTILDA" WAS DISCOVERED.
THIS IS AFRICATOWN. FOUNDED AROUND 1868, THREE YEARS AFTER EMANCIPATION,
BY 30 OF THE AFRICANS BROUGHT ON THE "CLOTILDA." JOYCELYN
DAVIS HAS ORGANIZED FESTIVALS TO HONOR AFRICATOWN'S FOUNDERS, ONE OF
WHOM WAS HER GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDFATHER, CHARLIE LEWIS. LAST FEBRUARY SHE TOOK
US TO THE STREET HE LIVED ON, CALLED LEWIS QUARTERS.
SO, PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE ON THIS STREET CAN TRACE THEIR
LINEAGE BACK TO CHARLIE LEWIS-- Davis: YES. EVERYONE HERE
IS RELATED. Cooper: WOW. Davis: YEAH. Cooper:
LEWIS AND SOME OF THE OTHERS GOT JOBS AT A
NEARBY SAWMILL, OWNED BY TIMOTHY MEAHER, THE SAME MAN RESPONSIBLE
FOR ENSLAVING THEM. Davis: I MEAN, THEY WORKED FOR,
LIKE, A DOLLAR A DAY. AND SO, THEY SAVED UP
THEIR MONEY TO BUY LAND. Cooper: CUDJO LEWIS ALSO
WORKED AT THE MEAHER'S SAWMILL. THIS RARE FILM SHOWS HIM
IN 1928. BY THEN HE WAS IN HIS 80'S AND
ONE OF THE "CLOTILDA'S" LAST LIVING SURVIVORS. HE HELPED FOUND
THIS CHURCH IN AFRICATOWN, THE SAME CHURCH HIS DESCENDANTS STILL
ATTEND TODAY. § § § § § § AFTER EMANCIPATION
IT SEEMED SO UNLIKELY THAT A GROUP OF FREED SLAVES
COULD POOL THEIR RESOURCES AND BUILD A COMMUNITY. I MEAN,
THAT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY THING. Elliott: THERE'S THIS THING WE
SAY ABOUT MAKING A WAY OUT OF NO WAY.
Cooper: MAKING A WAY OUT OF NO WAY? Elliott:
WHEN THESE FOLKS WERE FORCED OVER HERE FROM THE CONTINENT
OF AFRICA THEY DIDN'T COME WITH EMPTY HEADS. THEY CAME
WITH EMPTY HANDS. SO, THEY FOUND A WAY TO MAKE
A WAY. AND THEY RELIED ON EACH OTHER. AND THEY
WERE RESILIENT. Cooper: AFRICATOWN IS THE ONLY SURVIVING COMMUNITY
IN AMERICA FOUNDED BY AFRICANS, AND OVER THE DECADES IT
PROSPERED. THERE WAS A BUSINESS DISTRICT. THE FIRST BLACK SCHOOL
IN MOBILE AND, BY THE 1960s, 12,000 PEOPLE LIVED HERE.
Lorna: THEY BUILT A CITY WITHIN A CITY. AND
THAT'S WHAT WE CAN BE PROUD OF. Cassandra: WE
HAD A GAS STATION. WE HAD A GROCERY STORE.
Patterson: DRIVE IN. Cassandra: POST OFFICE, ALL THAT WAS
A BOOMING AREA OF BLACK-OWNED BUSINESS. Cooper: BUT TODAY
THOSE BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES ARE GONE. AN INTERSTATE HIGHWAY WAS
BUILT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF AFRICATOWN IN THE EARLY 1990s,
AND THE SMALL CLUSTERS OF REMAINING HOMES ARE SURROUNDED BY
FACTORIES AND CHEMICAL PLANTS. FEWER THAN 2,000 PEOPLE STILL LIVE
HERE. THE SMITHSONIAN'S MARY ELLIOTT TOOK US TO AFRICATOWN'S CEMETERY,
WHERE SOME OF THE "CLOTILDA'S" SURVIVORS AND GENERATIONS OF THEIR
DESCENDANTS ARE BURIED. NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO IN AFRICATOWN,
YOU CAN HEAR FACTORIES AND INDUSTRY AND THE HIGHWAY.
Elliott: THERE IS THIS CONSTANT BUZZ. IT'S A BUZZ YOU
HEAR ALL THE TIME, DAY AND NIGHT. AND IT'S A
CONSTANT REMINDER OF THE BREAKUP OF THIS COMMUNITY. Cooper:
THE DESCENDANTS WE SPOKE WITH HOPE THE DISCOVERY OF THE
"CLOTILDA" WILL LEAD TO THE REVITALIZATION OF AFRICATOWN, AND THEY'D
LIKE THE DESCENDANTS OF TIMOTHY MEAHER, THE MAN WHO ENSLAVED
THEIR ANCESTORS, TO GET INVOLVED. ACCORDING TO TAX RECORDS, MEAHER'S
DESCENDANTS STILL OWN AN ESTIMATED 14% OF THE LAND IN
HISTORIC AFRICATOWN, THEIR NAME IS ON NEARBY STREET SIGNS AND
PROPERTY MARKERS. COURT FILINGS INDICATE THEIR REAL ESTATE AND TIMBER
BUSINESSES ARE WORTH AN ESTIMATED $36 MILLION. BUT, SO FAR,
THE DESCENDANTS WE SPOKE WITH SAY NO ONE FROM THE
MEAHER FAMILY HAS BEEN WILLING TO MEET. Patterson: I
DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WANT TO REMEMBER.
Wallace: BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY BENEFIT FROM
IT TODAY. THAT THEY BENEFITED, THAT'S IT. THAT THEY
BENEFITED. AND THEY DON'T WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT. Cooper:
PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LOOK BACK AND ACKNOWLEDGE IT.
THEY DON'T WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT'S HOW PART OF
THEIR WEALTH WAS DERIVED. Patterson: BIG PART. AND
THAT, ON THE BACKS OF THOSE PEOPLE. Cooper: WHAT
WOULD YOU WANT TO SAY TO THEM? I MEAN, IF--
IF THEY WERE WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE, YOU
KNOW, HAVE A COFFEE WITH YOU? WE WOULD FIRST
NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT WAS DONE IN THE PAST. AND
THEN THERE'S AN ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE, THAT YOUR FAMILY, FOR THIS
MANY YEARS, FIVE YEARS, OWNED MY ANCESTORS. AND THEN THE
THIRD PIECE WOULD BE, HOW DO WE PARTNER TOGETHER WITH,
IN AFRICATOWN? I DON'T WANT TO RECEIVE ANYTHING PERSONALLY.
HOWEVER, THERE'S A NEED FOR A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT IN
THAT COMMUNITY. Cooper: WE REACHED OUT TO FOUR MEMBERS
OF THE MEAHER FAMILY, ALL EITHER DECLINED OR DIDN'T RESPOND
TO OUR REQUEST FOR AN INTERVIEW. ONE MAN WHO DID
WANT TO MEET THE DESCENDANTS, IS MIKE FOSTER. HE'S A
73-YEAR-OLD AIR FORCE VETERAN FROM MONTANA. WHILE RESEARCHING HIS GENEALOGY
LAST YEAR, MIKE FOSTER DISCOVERED HE IS THE DISTANT COUSIN
OF WILLIAM FOSTER, THE CAPTAIN OF THE "CLOTILDA." HAD YOU
HEARD OF THE LAST SLAVE SHIP? William Foster: NO.
NO. Cooper: WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEARD
IT? Foster: I WASN'T HAPPY ABOUT IT. IT WAS,
IT WAS VERY DISTRESSING. Cooper: DO YOU FEEL SOME
GUILT? Foster: NO, I DIDN'T FEEL ANY GUILT. I
DIDN'T DO IT. BUT I COULD APOLOGIZE FOR IT.
Cooper: AND LAST FEBRUARY, BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT
HE DID. Lorna: YEAH, OVER 160 YEARS HAVE PASSED,
AND WE FINALLY-- Foster: 160 YEARS. Lorna: YES.
Davis: THIS IS A POWERFUL MOMENT. THIS IS A
POWERFUL MOMENT. Foster: SO, I'M HERE TO SAY I'M
SORRY. Lorna: THANK YOU. THANK YOU. Cooper:
IN AN EFFORT TO ATTRACT TOURISM TO AFRICATOWN, THE STATE
OF ALABAMA PLANS TO BUILD A WELCOME CENTER HERE, BUT
THE DESCENDANTS WE SPOKE WITH HOPE MORE CAN BE DONE
TO RESTORE AND REBUILD THIS HISTORIC BLACK COMMUNITY, AND HONOR
THE AFRICAN MEN AND WOMEN WHO FOUNDED IT. SO,
I ALWAYS THINK, MY GOD, SUCH STRONG PEOPLE, SO CAPABLE,
ACHIEVED SO MUCH, AND STARTED WITH SO LITTLE. Patterson:
WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE
LEGACY OF THOSE PEOPLE IN THAT CARGO HOLD NEVER EVER
IS FORGOTTEN. BECAUSE THEY ARE THE REASON THAT WERE EVEN
HERE. (\TICKING\) (\TICKING\) Whitaker: SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW
JAMES CORDEN AS THE FRISKY, FUNNY BRITISH HOST OF "THE
LATE LATE SHOW," ONE OF VIACOM/CBS' OWN. BUT IF YOU
ARE NOT ONE TO STAY 30 A.M., THEN MAYBE YOU'RE
ONE OF THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS WHO HAVE CAUGHT CORDEN
ON HIS YOUTUBE CHANNEL. TAKING A TALK SHOW STUCK IN
AN AFTER HOURS TIME-SLOT, AND MAKING IT AVAILABLE ONLINE AROUND
THE GLOBE. WITH CHARM AND WIT, CORDEN GETS A-LIST STARS
TO OPEN UP IN A WAY THAT SEEMS TO SURPRISE
THEM AS MUCH AS US. AMAZING FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS
VIRTUALLY UNKNOWN IN THE U.S. WHEN HE MOVED HERE SIX
YEARS AGO. BUT JAMES CORDEN WILL TELL YOU HE HAD
ALREADY PUT IN HIS 10,000 HOURS- A DEFT PHYSICAL ACTOR,
WHO, BY HIS LATE 20s, HAD ACHIEVED SUCCESS AND FAME
IN BRITAIN. CORDEN SAYS HE'S ON A LIFELONG QUEST FOR
HAPPINESS, AND HE'LL DO ALMOST ANYTHING TO MOVE THE NEEDLE
ON HIS AUDIENCE'S HAPPY SCALE. JAMES, WE ARE READY IF
YOU ARE READY. James Corden: I'M READY. YES, ARE
YOU READY? Whitaker: I AM-- I THINK I'M READY.
EIGHT FEET AWAY AND RIGHT ON CUE. Corden: CAN
I BE HONEST, BILL? I WROTE AN EMAIL. AND I
WAS SAYING, "WHAT SHOULD I WEAR? SHOULD I JUST WEAR
A SUIT?" AND THEY SAID, "NO." THEY SAID, "BILL WON'T
BE WEARING A SUIT." (\LAUGHS\) Whitaker: OH, NO. BUT
I READ THAT YOU'RE KIND OF A FASHION PERSON. I
SAID, "WELL, I GUESS I SHOULD- - UP MY GAME
A LITTLE BIT." Corden: WELL-- AND I HAVE TO
SAY IT'S NOT GONE UNNOTICED. YOU'VE MATCHED THE-- (\LAUGHS\) SOCKS
TO THE SUIT. THAT'S-- Whitaker: BEYOND... Corden: --IMPORTANT
TO HAVE A WELL-DRESSED ANKLE. THAT'S WHAT I THINK. YEAH.
Whitaker: WE SPOKE WITH JAMES CORDEN AT THE FABLED
SUNSET TOWER HOTEL IN WEST HOLLYWOOD, A STONE'S THROW FROM
ANOTHER CBS TELEVISION CITY, WHERE FOR FIVE AND A HALF
YEARS, HE'S CLOCKED- 00 A.M., FOUR DAYS A WEEK, TO
TAKE ON THE SERIOUS BUSINESS OF DELIVERING A SHOW EACH
NIGHT- NOW TAPING UNDER STRICT COVID-19 PROTOCOLS. HOW HAS IT
CHANGED YOUR SHOW? HOW HAS IT CHANGED WHAT YOU DO?
Corden: WELL, I THINK IT'S-- ITS CHANGED EVERYTHING IN
A SENSE, YOU KNOW, WE LIKE TO THINK OF IT
AS BEING ABOUT SCALE, ABOUT SIZE AND GETTING OUT OF
THE STUDIO AND RUNNING OUT INTO THE ROAD AND SHOOTIN'
BIG SKETCHES, BIG NUMBERS, BIG AMBITION. AND OBVIOUSLY THOSE THINGS
ARE VERY DIFFICULT AT THIS MOMENT. Whitaker: WITH NO
AUDIENCE AND FEWER GUESTS ON THE COUCH, CORDEN'S MORE THAN
MADE DO, FIRST DOING THE SHOW FROM HIS GARAGE AND
NOW BACK IN THE STUDIO, EASILY RIFFING WITH HIS BAND.
AND, ON THIS OCCASION, THIS REPORTER, TO WITNESS THE PROCESS,
WARTS AND ALL. Corden: AMERICAN IS GREAT AGAIN, ISN'T
IT? THAT WON'T BE IN THE SHOW! BILL, GIVE ME
A BREAK! Whitaker: CORDEN THINKS EVERYTHING THEY DO NOW
IS LOOSER, AND HE PUTS A PREMIUM ON CALLING IT
AS IT IS. Corden: § MAYBE I'M IMMUNE IT'S
OKAY TO GO OUT FOR A RIDE § § WITH
OTHERS TRAPPED INSIDE § I WILL SAY, THAT AS TIME'S
GONE ON, AS WE'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION, I
DON'T EVEN CONSIDER IT TO BE POLITICS. I CONSIDER IT
TO BE RIGHT AND WRONG. I CONSIDER IT TO BE
GOOD VERSUS EVIL. (\LAUGHS\) WE ARE MORE THAN COMFORTABLE TALKING
ABOUT ANYTHING. WE ALSO FEEL LIKE WE'RE AN ENTERTAINMENT SHOW.
OUR PRIMARY CONCERN IS TO JUST TRY AND MAKE YOU
LAUGH SOMEHOW. THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE LOVE TO DO. AND--
I'LL REALLY STOP AT NOTHING TO TRY. (\LAUGHS\) IT MAY
NOT ALWAYS WORK. (\LAUGHS\) BUT I'LL GIVE IT MY BEST
SHOT, YOU KNOW. Whitaker: CORDEN BURST ONTO THE LATE
NIGHT LANDSCAPE, NOT TO RIP UP THE NOTION OF THE
TALK SHOW, BUT TO MAKE ONE THAT WOULD TRAVEL ON
THE INTERNET. ADD TO THAT, MUCH OF THE SHOW'S SUCCESS
IS ROOTED IN CORDEN'S NATURE. Corden: SO, HANG ON,
AM I MOVING INTO YOUR HOUSE? Whitaker: AN AFFABLE,
DROLL BRIT, WHO'S APPEAL DRAWS MEGASTARS, AND WHO EACH NIGHT
HOSTS MORE OF A COCKTAIL PARTY THAN A LATE SHOW.
§ THESE ARE A FEW OF MY FAVORITE THINGS §
AND THEN THERE'S WHAT CORDEN MODESTLY CALLS THEIR DIGITAL OUTREACH--
HIGHLY PRODUCED SEGMENTS DESIGNED MORE TO BREAK THE INTERNET, THAN
TRAVEL THROUGH IT. GO, GO, GO! Whitaker: TELL
ME ABOUT SOME OF THE SKETCHES THAT HAVE CAUGHT ON.
"SPILL YOUR GUTS." Corden: "SPILL YOUR GUTS OR FILL
YOUR GUTS." YEAH, THERE IS A COMMON THREAD IN ALL
OF THESE, AND ALL OF THESE ARE ABOUT SHOWING THE
HUMAN BEING INSIDE THIS VERY, VERY FAMOUS PERSON. THAT'S ACTUALLY
WHAT IT IS. § § § Whitaker: NOWHERE IS
IT TRUER THAN IN THE FRONT SEAT OF JAMES CORDEN'S
RANGE ROVER. § § § § § § A FEW
YEARS AGO, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN FOR NOT KNOWING
WHAT "CARPOOL KARAOKE" IS. TODAY YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE.
Corden: "CARPOOL KARAOKE." THE CORE OF IT REALLY ISN'T THE
SONGS. THE CORE OF IT IS THE INTIMACY OF THE
INTERVIEW, THAT THESE ARE SOME OF THE MOST FAMOUS PEOPLE
ON PLANET EARTH. YOU KNOW, THE-- THE-- THE BIGGEST SINGERS
IN THE WORLD AND THEY'RE IN AN-- ENVIRONMENT WHICH IS
COMPLETELY HUMANIZING. THIS TRAFFIC HAS BEEN TERRIBLE, I REALLY APPRECIATE
IT. I GOT YA. Whitaker: JAMES CORDEN TURNED
A GUILELESS INVITATION TO DRIVE AROUND LOS ANGELES INTO SOMETHING
HE HANGS THE SHOW ON. § § § § §
§ § § § EACH CARPOOL IS A VIRAL "SURE-
BET." § ENOUGH IS ENOUGH IS ENOUGH § Whitaker:
SOMETIMES TAKING AN ENTIRE DAY TO PRODUCE AND OFTEN OUTPACING
HIS TV AUDIENCE BY 100 MILLION VIEWS. NOTABLE, BECAUSE AT
FIRST, NOBODY WANTED TO DO IT. IT WAS HARD TO
GET THEM TO GET IN YOUR CAR? Corden: HARD,
ARE YOU'RE JOKING? OF COURSE IT WAS. IMAGINE GETTING THAT
CALL. (\LAUGHS\) YOU'RE, LIKE, ADELE'S PUBLICIST. LIKE, "YEAH, SO IT'S
A HOST WHOSE SHOW IS COMPLETELY UNPROVEN. THEY'VE NEVER HOSTED
A SHOW BEFORE. WE'D LOVE YOU TO JUST GET IN
A CAR AND DRIVE AROUND AND SING YOUR SONGS. AND
WE'RE NOT REALLY SURE ABOUT THE INSURANCE ON THIS ONE."
YOU KNOW, IT WAS CRAZY. I MEAN, WE MANAGED TO
GET MARIAH CAREY-- AND I WILL ALWAYS BE INDEBTED TO
HER FOR SAYING YES. SO, I GENUINELY, HONESTLY DON'T KNOW
IF WE'RE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION IF SHE HADN'T SAID YES.
I THINK IT'S THAT IMPORTANT TO OUR SHOW. Whitaker:
DO YOU HAVE A FAVORITE? Corden: WELL, THERE'S-- THERE'S
SO MANY. I MEAN, THE, THE-- DOING IT WITH PAUL
McCARTNEY WILL PROBABLY TAKE SOME BEATING FROM ME PERSONALLY. IT
WAS JUST A-- JUST-- A DAY I'LL NEVER, EVER FORGET.
Whitaker: WHAT STICKS OUT IN YOUR MIND ABOUT THAT
DAY? Corden: ALL OF IT. § PENNY LANE §
SOMETIMES I THINK, IF THAT WAS AN AUCTION PRIZE WHAT
WOULD IT GO FOR, YOU KNOW? AND I'M AT WORK.
WHAT? Whitaker: AND LIKE SO MANY OTHER SEGMENTS, CORDEN'S
CARPOOL WITH THE BEATLE HAS BROUGHT A SMILE AND A
SONG TO MORE THAN 56 MILLION PEOPLE WHO'VE WATCHED IT
ONLINE. Corden: THEY'LL NEVER BELIEVE THAT. IT'S REALLY THE--
THE BEDROCK OF-- OF WHAT OUR SHOW IS BUILT ON.
BUT I THINK WHEN THE SHOW STARTED WE WERE IN--
I DON'T KNOW-- EIGHT OR TEN COUNTRIES. AND I THINK
NOW WE'RE IN OVER 100 COUNTRIES. IT'S UTTERLY BEMUSING TO
ME HOW FAR THAT REACHES. Whitaker: THIS IS LIKE
A CULTURAL PHENOMENON. Corden: I JUST-- YEAH, I-- I-
- I'M-- I'M-- I'M-- (\LAUGHS\) YOU'RE MAKING ME FEEL INCREDIBLY
BRITISH BY-- NOT BEING ABLE TO EVEN LOOK YOU IN
THE EYE-- DURING A COMPLIMENT OR ANY KIND OF RECOGNITION
OF SUCCESS. (\LAUGHS\) Whitaker: CORDEN GREW UP AN HOUR
OUTSIDE OF LONDON. THE ONLY SON OF WORKING CLASS PARENTS,
HIS MOTHER WAS A SOCIAL WORKER AND HIS FATHER, A
MUSICIAN AND BIBLE SALESMAN. CORDEN WAS SCARCELY INTERESTED IN ACADEMICS--
DRAMA CLASS BEING THE EXCEPTION. Corden: I GOT A
B IN DRAMA AND A C IN HOME ECONOMICS, WHICH
I THINK IS CLEAR TO YOU THAT THOSE ARE THE
ONLY-- IF YOU LOOK AT ME NOW, THOSE ARE REALLY
T-- (\LAUGHTER\) TWO THINGS I TOOK A PRIMARY INTEREST IN,
WHICH IS PERFORMING AND EATING. (\LAUGHS\) Whitaker: YOU TALK
ABOUT-- OFTEN, ABOUT THE-- THE STRUGGLE YOU HAVE HAD WITH
EATING AND WITH YOUR WEIGHT. Corden: YEAH. Whitaker:
AND YOU WERE BULLIED BECAUSE OF-- OF YOUR WEIGHT IN
SCHOOL. Corden: I DON'T LOOK BACK AT MY TIME
AT SCHOOL THAT-- THAT I WAS BULLIED BECAUSE OF MY
SIZE. IN TRUTH THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE ALL OF THAT FAUX
CONFIDENCE COMES FROM. IT WAS ALL A DEFENSE MECHANISM OF,
LIKE, WELL, I'LL BE THE BIGGEST TARGET IN THE ROOM.
BULLIES DON'T LIKE THAT. BULLIES-- CONFIDENCE IS, LIKE, KRYPTONITE TO
BULLIES. Whitaker: JAMES CORDEN'S CONFIDENCE WAS EQUAL TO HIS
AMBITION. AT 17 HE FOUND HIS CALLING AND HIS VOICE,
ALBEIT, WITH JUST ONE LINE IN A MUSICAL IN LONDON'S
WEST END. HE WAS A WORKING ACTOR FOR MUCH OF
HIS 20s, BUT BIG LEAD ROLES WERE ELUSIVE, SO HE
DECIDED TO WRITE THE PART FOR HIMSELF, CO- CREATING AND
STARRING IN ONE OF THE U.K.'S MOST POPULAR TV COMEDIES,
"GAVIN AND STACEY." IT WON HIM AWARDS AND MADE HIM
FAMOUS IN THE U.K. AT 34, CORDEN MARRIED JULIA CAREY.
THEY'RE NOW RAISING THREE CHILDREN IN LOS ANGELES, BECAUSE HOLLYWOOD
CAME CALLING AFTER HIS PERFORMANCE ON BROADWAY IN THE SLAPSTICK
"ONE MAN, TWO GUVNORS." IT WON HIM A TONY AWARD
FOR BEST ACTOR AND GRABBED THE ATTENTION OF AMERICAN CRITICS
AND TELEVISION EXECUTIVES ALIKE. Corden: IT WAS GLORIOUS. DOING
THAT SHOW AND PLAYING THAT ROLE. AND-- AND I CAN
REALLY CHART SORT OF EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED IN MY PROFESSIONAL
LIFE AS EVERYTHING BEFORE THAT PLAY AND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED
AFTER THAT PLAY. Whitaker: AND THERE'S A LOT TO
CONSIDER, THE LATEST IS A GLITZY MUSICAL ADAPTED FROM BROADWAY
ABOUT FOUR WASHED-UP THEATRE ACTORS ATTEMPTING A COMEBACK THROUGH CELEBRITY
ACTIVISM. Corden: YOU'LL BECOME CELEBRITY ACTIVISTS! Whitaker: "THE
PROM" PREMIERES ON NETFLIX DECEMBER 11. WITH BIG NUMBERS AND
SPECTACULAR SETS, THE FILM SHOWS-OFF CORDEN'S TALENTS FOR WHAT HE
CALLS HIS "OTHER CAREER," A DEEP LOVE OF ACTING AND
PERFORMING. SO MANY OF YOUR FANS HAVE NEVER SEEN YOU
DO THE SONG-AND-DANCE ROUTINE. Corden: YOU KNOW, WHEN I
TOOK THE JOB AS THE HOST OF "THE LATE LATE
SHOW," LOTS OF PEOPLE TOLD ME, "OH, Y-- THAT'S IT.
YOU'LL NEVER ACT AGAIN." SO, REALLY, I WAS SO KEEN
TO PROVE THEM WRONG, THAT THERE WAS A WORLD IN
WHICH I COULD DO THIS. AND I GUESS THIS IS
A TEST FOR THAT. Whitaker: THE MOVIE FEATURES CORDEN,
ALONGSIDE ANDREW RANNELS AND OSCAR WINNERS, NICOLE KIDMAN AND THE
MARVELOUS MERYL STREEP. WE SPOKE WITH HER REMOTELY. SO, WHAT
DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU FOUND OUT JAMES CORDEN WAS
GOING TO BE A CO-STAR IN YOUR FILM? Meryl
Streep: WELL, I WAS-- I WAS THRILLED. I THINK HE'S
ONE OF THE MOST PRETERNATURALLY TALENTED ACTORS, WRITERS, IMPROVISERS, MUSICIANS.
HE'S-- HE'S A QUADRUPLE, QUINTUPLE THREAT. SO, IT'S-- IT'S FUN
TO WORK WITH HIM. IT'S FUN TO BE WITH HIM.
Whitaker: HOW IS IT THAT HE GETS SUCH A
WIDE ARRAY OF PEOPLE, IN-- INCLUDING PEOPLE LIKE YOU, TO--
TO GO ALONG WITH SOME OF THE CRAZY STUFF HE
DOES ON HIS SHOW? Streep: WELL, HE-- YOU KNOW
YOU'RE IN SAFE HANDS, I THINK. I DON'T-- I-- HE'S
NOT GOING TO PUSH YOU OVER A CLIFF. IT'S LIKE
GREAT-- GREAT DIRECTORS-- YOU FEEL SAFE WITH THEM. AND I
THINK-- JAMES H-- YOU S-- YOU TRUST THAT HE'S-- HE'S
GOT THIS IN HAND. YEAH. Whitaker: AT 42, IT'S
A GOOD BET JAMES CORDEN WILL CONTINUE TO SURPRISE, DELIGHT
AND EVOLVE BEFORE OUR EYES. WITH A SAGE UNDERSTANDING OF
HIS FICKLE INDUSTRY, CORDEN DELIGHTS IN HIS SUCCESS, BUT DOESN'T
TAKE ANY OF IT FOR GRANTED. Corden: I THINK
MY JOB IS TO CARE ABOUT THE SHOW-- TO-- TO
A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT, THE BEAT OF IT, THE TONE OF
IT. UNTIL THE MOMENT I START HOSTING IT. AND THEN
MY JOB IS TO JUST ONLY BE ON A QUEST
FOR FUN. A LIFELONG, UP AT DAWN, PRIDE- SWALLOWING SIEGE
FOR FUN. Whitaker: I LOVE THAT. Corden: THAT'S
ALL IT'S ABOUT, ISN'T IT? THAT'S WHAT EVERYTHING'S ABOUT. (\TICKING\)
\HEAR MORE FROM JAMES GORDON. WHAT ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC
ABOUT RIGHT NOW? 90% OF EVERYTHING. \AT 60minutesovertime.com. (\TICKING\)
Whitaker: I'M BILL WHITAKER. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK
WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES." JAMES WE ARE
READY IF YOU READY. I AM READY. ARE
YOU READY? I THINK I AM READY. I
WROTE AN E-MAIL SAYING WHAT SHOULD I WEAR? SHOULD I
JUST WEAR A SUIT? I MAY SAY NO. BUT
IF YOU GOING TO WEAR A SUIT. NONETHELESS, BUT
I READ YOU ARE KIND OF A FASHION PERSON.
I SAID I HAVE TO UP MY GAME A LITTLE
BIT. I HAVE TO SAY IT HAS NOT GONE
UNNOTICED. YOU MATCHED YOUR SOCKS TO THE SUIT. THAT
IS -- THAT IS BEYOND. IT IS IMPORTANT
TO HAVE A WELL DRESSED ANKLE. THAT'S WHAT I
THINK. AND HE ENDED THE EVENING WHERE IT BEGAN.
NEVER, EVER AGAIN WOULD I WEAR SUCH A BLAND
SOCK. THEY ARE PRETTY BLAND. BLACK SOCKS. I
AM TELLING YOU, I AM TELLING YOU. SOME PEOPLE
SAY HELLO. HEY, HOW ARE YOU DOING?