[ STOPWATCH TICKING ]
>>> MARY RELOTTO GREW UP IN
OHIO LONGING FOR A LARGE
FAMILY.
ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT SHE HAD
ONE, IN ITALY.
IT WAS YEARS BEFORE SHE COULD
ASK HER BIRTH MOTHER THE MOST
PAINFUL QUESTION OF ALL.
WHY WAS SHE GIVEN AWAY?
>> THE CHURCH CONVINCED HER
THAT IT WAS THE BEST THING FOR
HER.
AND SO INSTEAD OF HELPING HER,
IT WAS BETTER FOR THEM TO MAKE
MONEY SELLING BABIES.
SO AM I ANGRY AT THE CHURCH?
HELL YEAH.
[ STOPWATCH TICKING ]
>>> ENTER SOME COUNTRIES, YOU
ARRIVE IN STYLE.
HERE, YOU ARRIVE IN WHAT’S
BASICALLY A BACKYARD SWING
HOISTED BY A CRANK 60 FEET
ABOVE THE NORTH SEA.
AND IF YOU’RE WONDERING ABOUT
THE SAFETY REGULATIONS, YEAH,
US TOO.
THEN AGAIN, WHEN YOU ARE A
SOVEREIGN NATION YOU, BY
DEFINITION, SET YOUR OWN RULES.
>> THAT’S A HELLUVA WAY TO GET
INTO A COUNTRY.
>> THE ONLY WAY TO TRAVEL.
>> WELCOME TO SEALAND, A
MONARCHY THAT DECLARED ITS
INDEPENDENCE IN 1967.
JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU HEAR THIS
STORY.
>>> I FEEL A REAL
RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY AND GET
AS MUCH ON SCREEN FOR THE
AUDIENCE AS POSSIBLE.
>> ACTION!
>> CHRISTOPHER NOLAN IS ONE OF
THE GREAT DIRECTORS OF OUR
TIME.
"OPPENHEIMER," "DUNKIRK,"
"INTERSTELLAR," AND NEXT, "THE
ODYSSEY."
>> I MEAN, IT WAS THE HARDEST
MOVIE I’VE EVER DONE BY FAR.
I MEAN, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
[ STOPWATCH TICKING ]
>> I’M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I’M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I’M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I’M ANDERSON COOPER.
>> I’M SCOTT PELLEY.
>> THOSE STORIES TONIGHT ON "60
MINUTES."
[ STOPWATCH TICKING ] [ STOPWATCH TICKING ]
>>> DURING THE 1950s, THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH IN BELGIUM
SEPARATED THOUSANDS OF NEWBORNS
FROM THEIR UNWED MOTHERS AND
PUT THEM UP FOR ADOPTION, OFTEN
WITHOUT THEIR MOTHERS’ CONSENT.
THE WOMEN WERE SHAMED INTO
SURRENDERING THEIR BABIES BY
THEIR FAMILIES AND A POWERFUL
CHURCH.
IN 2024, POPE FRANCIS
APOLOGIZED FOR THOSE FORCED
ADOPTIONS.
BUT BELGIANS WEREN’T THE ONLY
VICTIMS.
FROM 1950 TO 1970, THE VATICAN
SENT 3,500 ITALIAN CHILDREN TO
AMERICA ON SOMETHING CALLED AN
ORPHAN VISA.
THE TROUBLE WAS, MOST WERE NOT
ORPHANS.
LIKE THEIR BELGIAN
COUNTERPARTS, THEY TOO WERE THE
CHILDREN OF UNWED MOTHERS.
MANY MOTHERS LATER WENT
SEARCHING FOR THEIR CHILDREN,
ONLY TO DISCOVER THEY HAD BEEN
SENT ACROSS AN OCEAN.
AS WE FIRST REPORTED IN 2024,
THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN ADOPTEES
ARE STILL STRUGGLING TO PIECE
TOGETHER THEIR LOST LIVES.
>> IT WAS A DAY HE’LL NEVER
FORGET.
AMERICAN ADOPTEE JOHN
CAMPITELLI WAS 28 YEARS OLD
WHEN HE WAS REUNITED WITH HIS
ITALIAN BIRTH MOTHER.
HE’D BEEN SEARCHING FOR HER FOR
MORE THAN A DECADE.
A MOTHER HE’D BEEN TOLD HAD
ABANDONED HIM.
>> MY MOM SAID, YOU KNOW, 28
YEARS HAVE GONE BY.
I’VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO BAKE A
CAKE FOR YOU FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY.
SHE SAYS, I DON’T CARE WHAT
MONTH IT IS.
I’M GOING TO BAKE YOU A CAKE.
WE NEED TO CELEBRATE CAUSE OUR
PRODIGAL SON HAS FINALLY COME
HOME.
>> JOHN CAMPITELLI WAS BORN
PIERO DAVI IN ITALY.
HIS MOTHER, FRANCESCA, WAS
UNMARRIED AND FORCED BY HER
FAMILY TO GIVE HIM UP.
HE WAS SENT TO A CATHOLIC RUN
INSTITUTION FOR THE CHILDREN OF
UNWED MOTHERS, SHUNNED AND
DISGRACED, FRANCESCA HANDED HER
BABY TO THE NUNS.
IMMEDIATELY HER NAME WAS
STRIPPED FROM THE BIRTH
RECORDS.
WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN, PIERO
DAVI BECAME AN ORPHAN.
CAMPITELLI SHOWED US THE CHURCH
DOCUMENTS THAT CHANGED HIS
LIFE.
>> IT SAYS HERE, THEY ABANDONED
SINCE BIRTH, AND THEIR
WHEREABOUTS ARE UNKNOWN.
THEY KNEW WELL WHERE MY MOM
WAS.
I MEAN, SHE SHOWED HER
DOCUMENTS WHEN SHE HANDED ME
OVER, SO THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT
LIE.
>> A LIE JOHN CAMPITELLI HAS
SPENT HIS LIFE UNRAVELING.
AS SOON AS HE WAS DECLARED AN
ORPHAN, HE WAS ELIGIBLE FOR
ADOPTION AND A U.S. VISA.
HE SAYS HIS MOTHER TOLD HIM SHE
HAD NO IDEA.
SHE HAD EVERY INTENTION OF
COMING BACK FOR HIM.
>> SHE SAID, "I NEVER SIGNED A
PAPER ANYWHERE SAYING THAT I
WAS WILLING TO GIVE YOU UP."
>> SHE THOUGHT PLACING YOU IN
THE INSTITUTION WAS TEMPORARY?
>> SHE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE
HER RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO GET ME
BACK SOMEDAY WHEN SHE GOT HER
LIFE TOGETHER.
>> SHE NEVER SIGNED YOU AWAY?
>> NO.
SHE SAID, "I PLACED YOU BECAUSE
I COULDN’T KEEP YOU AT THAT
POINT IN TIME BECAUSE OF THE
FAMILY SITUATION.
BUT I NEVER CONSENTED TO THE
ADOPTION OR TO THE FACT THAT
YOU WOULD LEAVE ITALY AND YOU
WOULD BE FAR FROM ME FOR THE
REST OF MY LIFE."
>> PIERO DAVI WAS ONE OF
THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN BORN OUT
OF WEDLOCK THAT THE VATICAN
REPACKAGED AS ORPHANS.
THE CHURCH ARRANGED THE VISAS,
HELPED BY A 1950 U.S. LAW THAT
BROADENED THE DEFINITION OF
ORPHAN TO INCLUDE A CHILD WITH
ONE PARENT, BUT ONE WHO
COULDN’T PROVIDE CARE.
WAS THAT LEEWAY, THE ORPHAN
PROGRAM BOOMED.
FOR PIERO’S MOTHER AND
THOUSANDS LIKE HER, IT WAS
DEVASTATING TO LEARN THE CHILD
SHE’D ENTRUSTED TO THE CHURCH
HAD DISAPPEARED.
>> IT SEEMS THAT MANY OF THESE
MOTHERS HAD NO IDEA THAT THEIR
CHILDREN WERE BEING SENT TO THE
UNITED STATES.
COULD THEY DO ANYTHING ABOUT
IT?
>> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
YOU CAN’T SEND A BABY TO THE
UNITED STATES AND THEN TELL THE
ADOPTIVE PARENTS THAT THE BIRTH
MOTHER WANTS THE CHILD.
>> AUTHOR MARIA LAURINO
UNCOVERED THE VATICAN’S ORPHAN
PROGRAM IN HER BOOK, "THE PRICE
OF CHILDREN."
SHE PIECED THE STORY TOGETHER
FROM HUNDREDS OF DOCUMENTS IN
THE CHURCH’S OWN ARCHIVES IN
NEW YORK.
LAURINO TOLD US THE PROGRAM
HINGED ON A CONSENT FORM THE
MOTHERS WERE SUPPOSE TO SIGN
SEVERING ALL RIGHTS TO THE
CHILD.
BUT LAURINO TOLD US, DOCTORS OR
LAWYERS SOMETIMES SIGNED THE
CONSENT WITHOUT TELLING THE
MOTHER.
OTHERS WERE DELIBERATELY
MISLED.
>> THERE WERE WOMEN WHO WERE
TRAPPED INTO THIS SITUATION,
AND TREMENDOUS PRESSURE TO
RELINQUISH THEIR CHILDREN.
THERE WERE WOMEN WHO WERE --
WERE TRICKED WHO SIGNED FORMS
THEY DIDN’T UNDERSTAND.
IN THE WORST CASES, THERE WERE
WOMEN WHO WERE TOLD THEIR CHILD
HAD DIED.
>> TOLD THEIR CHILD HAD DIED?
>> YES.
>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?
>> YEAH, IT’S SO -- IT’S SO
HORRIBLE.
THINKING I’VE BEEN TOLD WAS
THAT IT WAS AN EASY, EASIER
PSYCHOLOGICAL CLOSURE TO TELL A
BIRTH MOTHER THAT HER CHILD HAD
DIED THAN TO LET HER KNOW THAT
HER CHILD HAD BEEN GIVEN UP FOR
ADOPTION.
>> SO REPRESENTATIVES OF THE
CHURCH WERE TELLING THESE
MOTHERS THAT THEIR CHILDREN HAD
DIED, WHEN IN FACT THEY HAD
NOT, AND THEY HAD BEEN SENT TO
THE UNITED STATES?
>> YES.
>> LAURINO TOLD US MANY MORE
WOMEN WERE TOLD THEY COULD GET
THEIR CHILDREN BACK.
SHE FOUND LETTERS FROM
DISTRAUGHT MOTHERS PLEADING FOR
THEIR CHILDREN.
NOW, THESE ARE LETTERS THAT
WERE FOUND IN THE ARCHIVES?
>> THAT’S CORRECT.
THIS IS A LETTER TO REVEREND
LANDI, MONSIGNOR LANDI.
I BEG THAT MY CHILDREN BE
REPATRIATED.
IF I CANNOT YET AGAIN SEE MY
CHILDREN, I WILL SHORTEN MY
LIFE.
I FIND MYSELF DECEIVED, AND I
DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW.
>> MONSIGNOR LANDI WAS ANDREW
LANDI, AN AMERICAN PRIEST
LIVING IN ROME WHO RAN THE
ORPHAN PROGRAM.
LANDI’S BOSS HAD THE EAR OF THE
POPE.
IN 1951, POPE PIUS THE 12th
PERSONALLY SAW THE FIRST
CHILDREN OFF.
THOUSANDS MORE WOULD FOLLOW.
HOW COULD THEY BE DEFINED AS
ORPHANS?
>> I KNOW.
>> IF THEY STILL HAVE A MOTHER,
AND IN MANY CASES, A FATHER
STILL ALIVE?
>> YES, AND TO TALK TO THE
ADOPTED CHILDREN TODAY, UM,
THEY GET VERY ANGRY TO SAY I’M
NOT AN ORPHAN, YOU KNOW?
I SPENT YEARS SEARCHING FOR MY
PARENTS.
UM, BUT IT WAS A LINGUISTIC
CONSTRUCTION.
>> THE CHURCH CHARGED $475 PER
CHILD.
ABOUT $4,500 TODAY.
BUT LAURINO TOLD US THE DEMAND
FROM EAGER AMERICAN CATHOLICS
GREW SO FAST THAT MONSIGNOR
LANDI SENT LOCAL PRIESTS TO
SCOUR THE COUNTRYSIDE FOR MORE
CHILDREN.
>> THE CORRESPONDENCE SHOWS
THAT THEY TRAVELED THROUGHOUT
ITALY LOOKING FOR CASES, FOR
CHILDREN TO SEND.
>> LITERALLY LOOKING FOR --
>>
YES, THERE’S A --
>>
BABIES BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK?
>> YES.
>> IT ACTUALLY TURNED INTO A
MACHINE?
>> YES.
>> LOOKING FOR BABIES TO SEND
TO THE UNITED STATES?
>> RIGHT.
>> JOHN CAMPITELLI TOLD US HE
HAD A LOVING FAMILY IN NEW
YORK.
BUT WHEN HE FOUND OUT HE WAS
ADOPTED, HE SAID HE BECAME
OBSESSED WITH FINDING HIS BIRTH
MOTHER.
THERE WERE FEW CLUES, EVEN HIS
SURNAME, DAVI, WAS A DEAD END.
INVENTED BY THE STATE TO CUT
ALL TIES.
FINALLY, HE PERSUADED AN
ITALIAN NEWSPAPER TO PUBLISH
HIS STORY, AND THEN A
BREAKTHROUGH.
SOMEONE KNEW HIS MOTHER.
IN 1991, HE SPOKE TO HER FOR
THE FIRST TIME.
>> SHE SAID, ALL RIGHT, ARE YOU
PIERO?
WELL, NO, I’M JOHN.
OH WELL NO, I’M REALLY PIERO.
OKAY, I’M YOUR SON.
>> SO YOU WERE NERVOUS, I TAKE
IT?
>> I WAS REALLY NERVOUS BECAUSE
IT’S SOMETHING I ALWAYS WANTED
TO DO.
BUT WHEN THE MOMENT COMES, YOU
KNOW, YOU’RE LIKE --
>>
KIND OF TONGUE TIED?
>> YEAH, YEAH.
I WAS TONGUE TIED.
I FINALLY GET TO TALK TO THE
PERSON THAT ACTUALLY GAVE BIRTH
TO ME THAT -- THAT HELD ME,
THAT BREAST-FED ME FOR TWO,
THREE
DAYS IN THE HOSPITAL.
SO I KNOW THAT SHE LOVED ME.
>> WHAT WAS HER VOICE LIKE TO
YOU?
>> BROUGHT ME TO TEARS, I MUST
ADMIT.
AND WE SAID WE WERE NEVER GOING
TO LET GO OF EACH OTHER FROM
THEN ON.
>> TWO MONTHS LATER, HE WAS ON
A FLIGHT TO ITALY.
>> WE HAD EXCHANGED
PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT I SAID I
DIDN’T NEED A PHOTOGRAPH
BECAUSE I SAW THAT LADY THERE
IN FRONT OF ME, AND I SAID
THAT’S MY MOM.
SHE LOOKS IDENTICAL TO ME.
AND AFTER 28 YEARS, I COULD SAY
THAT I JUST RAN OVER TO HER,
AND I EMBRACED HER.
AND I SAID, MOM, FINALLY, AND I
KISSED HER.
I SAID, MOM, NO ONE HAD TO TELL
ME WHO YOU WERE, I KNEW WHO YOU
WERE.
I JUST HAD TO LOOK AT YOU.
>> CAMPITELLI MOVED TO ITALY
AND LEARNED ITALIAN TO SPEAK TO
HIS BIRTH FAMILY.
BUT HE TOLD US THAT DIDN’T UNDO
THE SUFFERING THE CHURCH HAD
CAUSED.
>> I FELT THAT MY WHOLE LIFE
WAS BASED ON A LIE.
THEY TOLD HER THAT THEY WOULD
TAKE CARE OF ME, AND THAT WAS A
LIE.
THEY GOT RID OF ME.
THEY DIDN’T TAKE CARE OF ME.
THEY CUT ALL RELATIONSHIP THAT
I COULD POSSIBLY HAVE WITH MY
BIRTH FAMILY, AND THEY SHIPPED
ME OVERSEAS.
I BECAME A PACKAGE FOR THEM.
>> TO THIS DAY, THE CHURCH
INSISTS THE ORPHAN PROGRAM WAS
THE ONLY CHANCE FOR A NEW LIFE
FOR THESE CHILDREN.
LAURINO TOLD US, MONSIGNOR
LANDI, WHO RAN THE PROGRAM,
DIED IN 1999 WITHOUT EVER
EXPRESSING ANY REGRETS.
>> I THINK THAT HE BELIEVED IN
THE MERIT OF THE PROGRAM, THAT
THEY WERE BRINGING CHILDREN TO
GOOD CATHOLIC HOMES, AND THAT
THESE CHILDREN WOULD BE RAISED
WELL IN THE UNITED STATES.
>> BUT HOW DOES THAT
EXPLANATION SIT WITH YOU NOW?
>> TERRIBLY.
I MEAN BECAUSE THIS IS HOW
WOMEN WERE TREATED.
AND THIS IS WHY I THINK OF THEM
AS DISPOSABLE WOMEN.
>> DISPOSABLE?
>> YEAH.
IT’S A TERRIBLE THING TO GIVE
UP YOUR CHILD.
BUT NOBODY WAS THINKING ABOUT
THESE WOMEN THEN.
>> AMERICAN ADOPTEE MARY
RELOTTO TRAVELS OFTEN TO ITALY
TO SEE HER BIRTH FAMILY.
SHE TOLD US SHE HAD A HAPPY
LIFE GROWING UP IN OHIO.
BUT SHE SAYS SHE LONGED FOR A
LARGE FAMILY, ONLY TO FIND OUT
SHE HAD ONE.
IT WAS 1992 WHEN SHE FIRST MET
ANNA MARIA, HER BIRTH MOTHER.
>> THE ONLY THING I COULD DO
WAS STARE AND LOOK AT EVERY
INCH OF HER FOR AT LEAST AN
HOUR.
>> AND YOU’RE DUMBFOUNDED?
>> NOT ONLY DOES SHE LOOK LIKE
ME, BUT SHE ACTS LIKE ME.
I ACT LIKE HER.
WE’RE THE SAME WEIGHT.
IT’S ALMOST LIKE THIS IS MY
TWIN, BUT OLDER.
I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I’M GOING
TO LOOK LIKE WHEN I GET OLDER.
SO NOW I PAY ATTENTION TO MY
HEALTH.
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> MOTHER AND DAUGHTER SAY THEY
ARE STILL LEARNING ABOUT EACH
OTHER.
RELOTTO TOLD US IT WAS YEARS
BEFORE SHE COULD ASK THE MOST
PAINFUL QUESTION OF ALL.
WHY WAS SHE GIVEN AWAY?
>> I JUST NEEDED TO KNOW HER
STORY, HER TRUTH BECAUSE NO
MOTHER GIVES UP THEIR CHILD SO
WILLINGLY WITHOUT GRIEF.
>> DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND WHY
SHE GAVE YOU UP?
>> BECAUSE SHE DIDN’T HAVE A
PIECE OF BREAD, SHE SAID, TO
GIVE US.
>> POVERTY.
>> SHE DIDN’T HAVE CLOTHES FOR
US.
SHE WAS IN A DESPERATE
SITUATION, YOU KNOW?
SO INSTEAD OF THE CHURCH
HELPING HER MAINTAIN A HOUSE
AND FEED HER CHILDREN, INSTEAD
THEY -- THEY TOOK HER CHILDREN.
>> GRAZIE A CRISTO.
>> ANNA MARIA IS NOW 83.
SHE AGREED TO SPEAK WITH US IF
WE WITHHELD HER LAST NAME.
EVEN DECADES LATER, A STIGMA OF
HAVING CHILDREN OUT OF WEDLOCK
REMAINS.
SHE TOLD US ABOUT HER OTHER
CHILD, CHRISTIAN, WHO WAS SENT
TO A CHURCH-RUN INSTITUTION
WHEN SHE BECAME ILL.
BUT WHEN SHE WENT TO PICK HIM
UP, SHE SAYS THE NUNS TOLD HER
HE HAD DIED.
>> I WENT INTO DEPRESSION, ANNA
MARIA TOLD US.
I SEARCHED FOR HIM EVERYWHERE.
HOW DID HE DIE?
WHERE WAS HE BURIED?
NOBODY COULD TELL ME.
>> DID YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR
SON WAS DEAD?
>> SOMETHING INSIDE ME DIDN’T
FEEL RIGHT.
BUT I COULD DO NOTHING ABOUT
IT.
>> BUT CHRISTIAN HAD NOT DIED.
HE TOLD US HE LEARNED THE TRUTH
ABOUT HIS MOTHER AT AGE 40.
ANNA MARIA SAYS THE CHURCH HAD
PUT HIM UP FOR ADOPTION WITHOUT
TELLING HER.
>> IT WAS A SWINDLE, SHE TOLD
US.
THEY STOLE A CHILD THAT THEY
WANTED.
>> SO WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU
WHEN YOU FOUND THAT CHRISTIAN
WAS, IN FACT, ALIVE?
>> I HAVE NO WORDS, SHE TOLD
US.
THERE WERE LOTS OF TEARS AND
HUGS.
>> A LA FAMIGLIA.
>> THE VATICAN’S ORPHAN PROGRAM
ENDED IN THE 1970s, BUT THE
FALLOUT CONTINUES, RIPPLING
ACROSS GENERATIONS.
MARY RELOTTO TOLD US SHE NEVER
SHOULD HAVE BEEN SENT TO
AMERICA.
>> I THINK THE CHURCH CONVINCED
HER THAT IT WAS THE BEST THING
FOR HER.
AND SO INSTEAD OF HELPING HER,
IT WAS BETTER FOR THEM TO MAKE
MONEY SELLING BABIES.
THAT’S ALL I CAN THINK OF, YOU
KNOW?
SO AM I ANGRY AT THE CHURCH?
HELL YEAH, I AM.
I WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT LIFE
TOO.
AND WHILE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN
DIFFICULT, I STILL WOULD HAVE
SURVIVED SURVIVED
>>> OKAY, NAME THAT COUNTRY.
IT’S PLANTED OPPOSITE EUROPE,
SITTING PROUDLY ON THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE NORTH SEA.
IT’S A MONARCHY THAT FEATURES
ITS OWN CURRENCY, POSTAGE
STAMPS, CONSTITUTION, NATIONAL
ANTHEM, LOVE OF TEA, AND A PAIR
OF HANDSOME PRINCES, BORN TWO
YEARS APART.
WE SPEAK OF SEALAND.
A CRUMB OF REAL ESTATE OFF THE
ENGLISH COAST THAT DECLARED ITS
INDEPENDENCE IN 1967, SEALAND
HAS A FULL-TIME POPULATION OF
ONE.
IT HAS A LAND MASS THE SIZE OF
ROUGHLY TWO TENNIS COURTS.
ITS LEADING EXPORT MIGHT BE THE
NATIONAL MYTHOLOGY, A HISTORY
OF PIRACY, COUPS, COUNTERCOUPS,
ROGUES, AND OFFSHORE INTERNET
SCHEMES.
IT MAY MAKE TINY LICHTENSTEIN
LOOK LIKE CHINA IN COMPARISON.
JOIN US AS WE COMPILE SOME
NOTES FROM A TRULY SMALL
ISLAND.
>> WE COULD SAY SEALAND, BY THE
WAY, OVER THERE.
DO YOU SEE THAT?
>> YEAH, THERE SHE IS.
>> YEAH, YEAH, ON THE STAR
BOARD BOW.
>> BEHOLD, THE WORLD’S SMALLEST
STATE.
IT’S A MICRONATION IN THE
EXTREME.
A PRINCIPALITY WHICH SITS OR
STANDS ONLY SEVEN MILES OFF THE
COAST OF ENGLAND.
ITS SELF-DESCRIBED REIGNING
MONARCH IS THIS GUY, PRINCE
MICHAEL BATES.
>> HERE WE ARE.
>> YEP.
>> A PLATFORM AND A COUPLE OF
CONCRETE HUSKS, AND --
>>
YEAH.
>> THIS IS A STATE.
>> YEP.
>> ENTER SOME COUNTRIES, YOU
ARRIVE IN STYLE.
HERE, YOU ARRIVE IN WHAT’S
BASICALLY A BACKYARD SWING
HOISTED BY A CRANK 60 FEET
ABOVE THE NORTH SEA.
AND IF YOU’RE WONDERING ABOUT
THE SAFETY REGULATIONS, YEAH,
US TOO.
THEN AGAIN, WHEN YOU ARE A
SOVEREIGN NATION, YOU, BY
DEFINITION, SET YOUR OWN RULES.
>> THAT’S A HELL OF A WAY TO
GET INTO A COUNTRY.
>> THE ONLY WAY TO TRAVEL.
>> ON THE PLUS SIDE, THERE’S NO
LONG LINE AT THE ARRIVAL’S
HALL.
>> I’M FOLLOWING YOU TO
PASSPORT CONTROL.
>> MIKE BARRINGTON FILLS
VARIOUS ROLES AND POSITIONS ON
SEALAND.
RIGHT NOW IT’S IMMIGRATIONS AND
CUSTOMS.
HE ALSO HAPPENS TO BE THE ONLY
PERMANENT RESIDENT.
>> THERE YOU ARE, SIR.
>> SO NOW I’M OFFICIAL?
>> YOU ARE.
WELCOME TO SEALAND.
>> IT WASN’T ALWAYS NAMED
SEALAND, AND IT WAS NEVER
INTENDED TO BE A COUNTRY.
ORIGINALLY CALLED HIS MAJESTY’S
ROUGHS TOWER, IT WAS A
HASTILY-CONSTRUCTED NAUTICAL
FORT.
ONE OF SEVERAL THE BRITISH SET
UP IN THE NORTH SEA DURING
WORLD WAR II.
EQUIPPED WITH ANTI-AIRCRAFT
ARTILLERY, THESE FORTS WERE
DESIGNED TO PREVENT GERMAN
BOMBING RAIDS ON LONDON.
DURING THE WAR, MORE THAN 100
ROYAL MARINES WERE CRAMMED INTO
THESE TOWERS FOR MONTHS ON END.
DESCENDING THE SEVEN-STORY
TOWERS, IT FEELS AND SMELLS
LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN A TREE
HOUSE AND A DIESEL-SOAKED
SUBMARINE.
FIRST UP, THE FIRST-CLASS
BEDROOM SUITE.
>> IT’S A NICE ONE.
>> YEAH, NICE TV.
>> OUR CLAUSTROPHOBIC TOUR
CONTINUED DOWNWARD.
>> WE’RE UNDER WATER AT THIS
POINT.
SO WE STILL GOT A COUPLE FLOORS
TO GO?
>> YEAH, YOU HEAR SHIPS GOING
PAST.
YOU HEAR THE PROPELLERS GOING
DING, DING, DING.
>> LIKE MANY COUNTRIES, THERE’S
A NATIONAL CATHEDRAL.
>> YOU HAVE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP
ON SEALAND.
I THINK THERE’S EVEN THE QURAN
HERE SOMEWHERE.
ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR, THE JAIL.
>> TWO DAYS IN THE BRIG.
>> WOW.
>> BREAD AND WATER.
>> I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE
SEALAND CONSTITUTION AND SEE
WHAT MY RIGHTS ARE.
>> VERY LIMITED.
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> IF YOU’RE WONDERING BY NOW
HOW THIS CONCRETE ISLAND
CONSTITUTES AS A COUNTRY, STICK
WITH US HERE.
BACK IN THE 1960s, THE SAME
WATERS PLAYED HOST TO THE
UNLICENSED COMMERCIAL RADIO
BUSINESS THAT OPERATED ON SHIPS
AND OLD FORTS.
WITH THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT
CALLED PIRATE RADIO.
IT WAS A TIME OF THE BEATLES,
THE ROLLING STONES, THE KINKS,
BUT THE STODGY BBC, WHICH A
MONOPOLY ON BROADCASTING IN
BRITAIN, GAVE THE ROCK BANDS
JUST AN HOUR OF AIR TIME A
WEEK.
♪ [ MUSIC ] ♪
THE YOUNGER SET IN BRITAIN,
MILLIONS OF THEM TUNED THEIR
RADIO KNOBS TO THE PIRATE
STATIONS.
IN 1965, PRINCE MICHAEL’S
FATHER, ROY BATES, AN
ENTERPRISING SWASHBUCKLING
WORLD WAR II VETERAN,
COMMODORED A FORT WHERE ANOTHER
PIRATE STATION OPERATED.
IT WAS THE WILD WEST ON THE
NORTH SEA.
>> THE DJ’S MAY NOT BE HIGHLY
EXPERIENCED, BUT THEY CERTAINLY
PULL THEIR WEIGHT.
>> BATES SET UP BRITAIN’S FIRST
24-HOUR OUTFIT.
HE CALLED IT RADIOEST SEX.
>> YOU’RE IN TUNE WITH RADIOEST
SEX BROADCASTING ON 2-22
METERS.
>
>> WE’RE DOING A JOB THAT’S
NEEDED, THE PUBLIC WANTS US TO
DO THE JOB.
SO DO BUSINESSES.
>> BUT NOT FORKING LONG.
THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT ENACTED
A NEW LAW RENDERING ALL PIRATE
RADIO STATIONS ILLEGAL.
BATES WAS FORCED TO SHUT DOWN.
BUT TRUE TO HIS NATURE, HE WAS
SOMETHING OTHER THAN SCARED
OFF.
>> HE JUST WOULD NOT BACK DOWN.
>> FORM OF SURRENDER IF HE HAD
SAID, YOU KNOW, I’M OUT?
>> HE WOULDN’T KNOW THAT WORD,
SURRENDER.
I MEAN, NO.
>> FAR FROM SURRENDERING, BATES
SEIZED ANOTHER FORT, ROUGHS
TOWER, WHICH WAS OUTSIDE UK
TERRITORIAL WATERS.
INSTEAD OF RESTARTING RADIOEST
SEX, HE DID SOMETHING BOLDER
STILL.
ON SEPTEMBER 2, 1967, HE
DECLARED IT AN INDEPENDENT
STATE.
SEALAND.
AND DECLARED HIMSELF ITS
PRINCE.
IT WAS HIS WIFE, JOAN’S
BIRTHDAY.
>> AND IT WAS, OF COURSE, A
HUGELY ROMANTIC GESTURE TO MAKE
MY MOTHER A PRINCESS.
>> IN ADDITION TO TAKING YOU
OUT TO DINNER, I’M GOING TO
MAKE YOU A PRINCESS?
>> WELL, HE DIDN’T TAKE HER OUT
TO DINNER, BUT HE DID, HE MADE
HER A PRINCESS.
>> PRINCE ROY AND PRINCESS
JOAN, ALONG WITH THEIR TWO
CHILDREN, MICHAEL AND PENNY,
SET UP HOME ON SEALAND.
A SHEER NOVELTY OF THEIR
LIFESTYLE WAS A CONSTANT SOURCE
OF AMUSEMENT ON THE MAINLAND.
THIS NEWSREEL IS FROM 1969.
>> THE START OF ANOTHER DAY
EVEN FOR THE NEW ROYALS, IS NO
DIFFERENCE THAN FOR MILLIONS OF
OTHERS, THE REQUEST FOR A
COMMON CUPPA.
>> MRS.
BATES, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO
KEEP LOOKING GLAMOROUS IN
CONDITIONS LIKE THESE?
>> IT IS NO MORE DIFFICULT THAN
ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.
WE’RE QUITE COMFORTABLE HERE.
I’VE GOT ALL THE THINGS THAT I
WANT.
MAKEUP, BRUSHES, AND THINGS.
>> AT AGE 16, PENNY WAS LESS
CONVINCED.
>> IT WAS FREEZING COLD, AND IT
HAD NO ELECTRICITY.
TO FLUSH A TOILET, YOU’D HAVE
TO CHUCK A BUCKET OVER THE
SIDE, DROP IT DOWN ABOUT 80
FEET, PULL IT UP, AND FLUSH THE
TOILET.
>> THAT WAS YOUR TOILET?
>> YES.
>> THE BATES FAMILY HAD BIG
AMBITIONS TO TURN SEALAND INTO
A TAX HAVEN, A LUXURY ISLAND
AND CASINO.
AND THEY WENT ALL IN ON
TRAPPINGS OF STATE HOOD,
FASHIONING A FLAG, STAMPS,
CURRENCY, AN ANTHEM, EVEN A
NATIONAL MOTTO.
E MARE LIBERTAS.
FROM THE SEA, FREEDOM.
AS TEENS, MICHAEL AND PENNY
WOULD SPEND MONTHS ON SEALAND,
HOLDING DOWN THE FORT, AS IT
WERE.
FIRING OFF WARNING SHOTS AND
TOSSING MOLOTOV COCKTAILS
OVERBOARD TO FEND OFF PERIODIC
ATTEMPTS OF INVASION FROM
RIVALS AND BUCCANEERS.
>> WHEN THE PRESS EVENTUALLY
CAME OUT AND TOOK PHOTOGRAPHS,
MY FATHER CALLED ME DOWN, AND
HE SAID, NOW LOOK, HE SAID HOW
MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD YOU, YOU
DO NOT HOLD A GUN LIKE THAT?
>> YOU WERE HOLDING THE GUN THE
RIGHT WAY?
>> AND ACTUALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT
THE PICTURE, THE WAY I’M
HOLDING THE GUNS, IT’S
DREADFUL.
>> FIRMLY SETTLED ON SEALAND,
THE BATES’ REMAINED A NUANCE TO
THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT.
SO MUCH SO, AS A WARNING TO THE
FAMILY, A TEAM OF ROYAL
ENGINEERS BLEW UP A SIMILAR
NORTH SEA FORT.
AT SEALAND’S NATIONAL ARCHIVES,
WHICH DOUBLES AS PRINCE
MICHAEL’S DINING ROOM TABLE, WE
WERE SHOWN DECLASSIFIED PLANS,
DRAWN UP BY THE BRITISH
MINISTRY OF DEFENSE TO TAKE
SEALAND BY FORCE.
>> THE FOLLOWING UNITS ARE TO
BE AVAILABLE TO THE EXECUTION
OF THE OPERATION.
ROYAL NAVY TWO WESSEX 5
HELICOPTERS, CRAFTS FROM HM
NAVAL BASE CHATHAM, PORTSMOUTH,
MIDWAY, AND A CLEARANCE DIVING
TEAM.
[ LAUGHTER ] IT’S CRAZY, ISN’T
IT?
>> BUT IT WASN’T JUST THE
BRITISH GOVERNMENT THAT WANTED
TO DISLODGE THE FAMILY.
IN AUGUST 1978, A BAND OF ROGUE
GERMAN AND DUTCH LAWYERS AND
DIAMOND MERCHANTS LAUNCHED A
COUP D’ETAT WITH DESIGNS OF
FOUNDING THEIR OWN OFFSHORE
CASINO.
THEY ARRIVED BY HELICOPTER WITH
A FILM CREW IN TOW.
TAKING PRINCE MICHAEL BY
SURPRISE, AND THEN ROUGHING HIM
UP.
>> THEY TIED MY ELBOWS
TOGETHER, MY KNEES TOGETHER,
MY FEET TOGETHER, MY HANDS DOWN
TO MY KNEES.
AND THEY PICKED ME UP, AND ONE
SAID TO THE OTHER GERMAN, LET’S
CHUCK THIS PERSON OVER THE
SIDE.
HE’S TOO MUCH TROUBLE.
>> YOU’RE A FULL-ON POLITICAL
PRISONER RIGHT NOW?
>> YEAH.
>> SEALAND HAD FALLEN.
AFTER THREE DAYS, MICHAEL WAS
RELEASED.
DID MICHAEL AND HIS FATHER THEN
RETURN VIA HELICOPTER, FULLY
ARMED AND FLANKED BY A GROUP OF
BRUISERS TO STAGE A SUCCESSFUL
COUNTERCOUP?
YES, YES, THEY DID.
>> I JUMPED AND LANDED CRASH IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE GERMANS,
SAWED-OFF SHOTGUN HIT THE DECK,
BOOM, AND ALL THE GERMANS WENT
LIKE THAT.
>> THEY SURRENDERED.
THAT’S IT?
>> YOU’VE RECLAIMED YOUR
PRINCIPALITY?
>> DISARMED, THE PLOTTERS WERE
RELEASED, ALL EXCEPT FOR ONE.
HIS NAME WAS PUTZ, AND HE WAS
MADE TO CLEAN THE BATHROOM,
MAKE COFFEE, AND IMPOSED A FINE
FOR TREASON.
$37,000.
HIS IMPRISONMENT BROUGHT A
GERMAN DIPLOMAT TO SEALAND.
BUT IF YOU HAVE GERMAN
EMISSARIES, COMING HERE TO
NEGOTIATE THE RELEASE OF THE
PRISONER, DOESN’T THAT IMPLY
THE SEALAND IS A STATE THAT’S
HAVING RELATIONS?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
IT’S DE FACTO RECOGNITION,
ISN’T IT?
IT HAPPENED, YEAH.
>> THIS DIPLOMATIC VISIT WAS
CRITICAL FOR THE BATES FAMILY.
AN INTERNATIONAL TREATY SIGNED
IN THE 1930s, ESTABLISHED FOUR
REQUIREMENTS FOR STATE HOOD.
ONE WAS RECOGNITION BY ANOTHER
STATE.
SEALAND HAD ALREADY MET THE
OTHER TESTS.
A GOVERNMENT, CHECK, A DEFINED
TERRITORY, CHECK.
AND A PERMANENT POPULATION?
CHECK, THANKS TO MIKE
BARRINGTON.
>> SO WHAT’S YOUR POSITION
HERE?
>> WELL, I DO MOSTLY
ENGINEERING WORK,
ELECTRICICALLY, WHATEVER.
APPARENTLY I’M HEAD OF HOMELAND
SECURITY.
>> WHAT ARE YOU PROTECTING THIS
PLACE FROM?
>> THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT OR
ANYBODY ELSE THAT DECIDES TO
TAKE US OVER.
WE ARE A COUNTRY, AFTER ALL, A
SMALL NATION.
>> YOU’RE READY TO USE WEAPONS
IF YOU HAVE TO?
>> IF NEED BE, YES.
NO HESITATION.
>> BUT IN RECENT YEARS TO KEEP
SEALAND AFLOAT, THE BATES
FAMILY HAS UPDATED THEIR PIRATE
RADIO SENSIBILITIES FOR THE
TIMES.
IN THE EARLY 2000s, THEY
PARTNERED WITH FRINGE INTERNET
ENTREPRENEURS, WHO INVESTED
MILLIONS WITH DESIGN OF TURNING
SEALAND INTO AN OFFSHORE DATA
HAVEN.
PRINCE MICHAEL’S SON, PRINCE
JAMES, SHOWED US THE OLD SERVER
ROOM.
>> WE USED TO RUN THINGS LIKE
GAMBLING SITES, PORN SITES.
WE HAD A FEW DUBIOUS PEOPLE
ASKING US TO DO THINGS THAT WE
DIDN’T REALLY AGREE WITH.
THERE WAS AN ORGAN TRANSPLANT
COMPANY, LIKE HUMAN ORGANS THAT
WANTED TO SET, HOST OUT HERE,
WHICH MY FATHER WAS AGAINST.
>> GAMBLING AND PORN WAS OKAY,
BUT WE DRAW THE LINE AT
HARVESTING HUMAN ORGANS?
>> YES, EXACTLY.
>> THAT VENTURE FAILED
DISMALLY.
BUT TODAY, JAMES AND HIS
YOUNGER BROTHER, PRINCE LIAM,
ARE STILL HARNESSING THE POWER
OF THE INTERNET.
THE BATES FAMILY WON’T DISCLOSE
THE SIZE OF THE NATIONAL DEBT
OR THE YEARLY BUDGET, BUT IT IS
SERVICED THROUGH THE ONLINE
SALE OF NOBLE TITLES.
BECOME A LORD OR LADY FOR $30.
$600 WILL MAKE YOU A SEALAND
DUKE OR DUCHESS.
>> AND PEOPLE ARE BUYING THESE
TITLES?
WHAT IS IT ALL ABOUT?
>> I THINK IT MEANS SO MANY
THINGS TO SO MANY DIFFERENT
PEOPLE.
SOME PEOPLE LOVE THE ACT OF
POLITICAL DEFIANCE.
SOME PEOPLE LOVE THE LOVE STORY
THAT RAN THROUGH IT WITH MY
GRAM AND GRANDPA.
SOME PEOPLE LOVE, YOU KNOW,
DAVID AGAINST GOLIATH.
>> THAT NATIONAL MYTH, THE VERY
IDEA OF SEALAND HAS NOW FAR
OUTGROWN THE COUNTRY ITSELF.
AS FOR THE HOUSE OF BATES,
WELL, ROY AND JOAN HAVE PASSED
ON.
AND THE REST OF THE LINEAGE
LIVES IN THE SMALL ENGLISH
RESORT TOWN OF SOUTH-END-ON-
SEA.
PRINCES JAMES AND LIAM RUN A
BUSINESS HARVESTING COCKLES.
PRINCESS PENNY RUNS A BOTOX
CLINIC NEARBY.
AND SEVEN YEARS AGO, PRINCE
MICHAEL MARRIED AND WELCOMED A
NEW PRINCESS, MAE SHI, A FORMER
ARTILLERY MAJOR IN CHINA’S
PEOPLE’S LIBERATION ARMY.
SIX DECADES AFTER FOUNDING
THEIR PRIVATE LITTLE COUNTRY,
THE ROYAL FAMILY REMAINS
COMMITTED TO THE BIT.
>> THIS IS A GOLDEN AGE FOR
SEALAND?
>> HOPEFULLY.
>> IF THE BRITISH NAVY ROLLED
UP TOMORROW AND SAID, IT’S TIME
TO RECLAIM SEALAND.
HOW DO YOU RESPOND?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I’M SURE
THEY WOULDN’T.
BUT IF THEY DID, I’D JUST GET
THE BEST CHINA OUT AND MAKE A
NICE CUP OF TEA.
>> THE ROYAL FAMILY’S LATEST
GAMBIT?
AN E-CITIZENSHIP PROGRAM THAT
SIGNED UP THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
FROM 134 COUNTRIES.
EACH PAYS $10 A MONTH TO HELP
KEEP SEALAND STANDING.
[ STOPWATCH TICKING ]
>>> GETTING TO AND STAYING ON
SEALAND.
>> I’D BE LYING IF I SAID IT’S
THE MOST THE MOST
>>> CHRISTOPHER NOLAN IS AMONG
THE GREAT HOLLYWOOD DIRECTORS
OF HIS GENERATION.
HIS BLOCKBUSTERS HAVE WON 18
ACADEMY AWARDS AND HAULED IN
MORE THAN $6 BILLION.
NEXT, NOLAN WILL RELEASE THIS
SUMMER HIS ADAPTATION OF THE
NEARLY 3,000-YEAR-OLD STORY,
"THE ODYSSEY."
WE MET THE 55-YEAR-OLD BRITISH
AMERICAN IN HIS OFFICE IN L.A.,
WHERE HE WROTE EPICS INCLUDING
"OPPENHEIMER," "DUNKIRK,"
"INCEPTION," "INTERSTELLAR,"
AND "THE DARK KNIGHT."
A NOLAN MOVIE IS A SPECTACLE,
BIG AND LOUD AT THE LIMITS OF
WHAT’S POSSIBLE.
BUT A NOLAN STORY IS GRACE,
IMPERFECT PEOPLE REVEALING WHAT
IT IS TO BE HUMAN.
"THE ODYSSEY" IS NOLAN’S MOST
AMBITIOUS YET.
IT HAD TO BE, HE TOLD US,
BECAUSE HE IMAGINES EVERY FILM
IS THE LAST HE WILL EVER MAKE.
>> I FEEL A REAL RESPONSIBILITY
TO TRY AND GET AS MUCH ON
SCREEN FOR THE AUDIENCE AS
POSSIBLE.
TO GIVE THE AUDIENCE THE
FULLEST FLAVOR, THE FULLEST SET
OF
IMAGES AND EVENTS THAT WE CAN
GIVE THEM FOR A STORY.
>> WHAT ARE THE ESSENTIAL
ELEMENTS OF A CHRISTOPHER NOLAN
FILM?
>> I ALWAYS TRY TO HAVE A POINT
OF VIEW ON THE STORY THAT’S
FROM INSIDE THE FILM.
SO I’M NOT LOOKING AT THE
CHARACTERS FROM 30,000 FEET.
I’M TRYING TO BE IN THE RACE,
IN THE MAZE WITH THEM.
BECAUSE I WANT TO TRY TO GIVE
THE AUDIENCE A SENSE OF WHAT A
PLACE WOULD SMELL LIKE, WHAT IT
WOULD FEEL LIKE.
BUT YOU’RE ALSO TRYING TO MAKE
THE MOST INVOLVING, THE MOST
EXTREME VERSION OF A STORY
POSSIBLE.
>> NOLAN’S "ODYSSEY" IS AN
EXTREME VERSION OF THE BRONZE
AGE WAR FOUGHT BY THE
SOLDIER-KING ODYSSEUS.
WITH HIS TROJAN HORSE
DECEPTIONS AND 10-YEAR STRUGGLE
TO RETURN HOME.
"THE ODYSSEY" IS NOLAN’S 13th
FILM IN 28 YEARS.
AND UNLIKE MANY DIRECTORS, HE
WRITES THE SCREENPLAYS.
>> WHEN I’M WRITING, I’M
VISUALIZING THE FILM AS AN
AUDIENCE MEMBER, AS SOMEBODY
EXPERIENCING THE STORY.
THEN WHEN I DIRECT THE STORY,
I’M TRYING TO TAKE THE AUDIENCE
THERE.
SO IN THE CASE OF THE
"ODYSSEY," I’M TRYING TO PUT
THE AUDIENCE INTO THAT HORSE.
I’M TRYING TO PUT THEM ON THE
DECK OF ODYSSEUS’ SHIP.
>> YOU DON’T WANT THE AUDIENCE
TO WATCH THE FILM.
YOU WANT THE AUDIENCE TO BE IN
THE FILM?
>> VERY MUCH, YEAH.
AND TO HAVE A FEELING OF HAVING
CONNECTED WITH THESE
CHARACTERS, HAVING LIVED IN THE
WORLD WITH THESE CHARACTERS.
>> ACTION!
>> WE’RE SITTING NEXT TO YOUR
DESK.
>> YEP.
>> AND I COULDN’T HELP, BUT
NOTICE THERE’S A BOOK RIGHT
NEXT TO ME CALLED, "HOW TO MAKE
GOOD MOVIES."
SO THIS IS IT?
THIS IS THE SECRET?
>> THAT’S THE SECRET, YEAH.
I TRIED TO TIDY UP BEFORE YOU
CAME AND HIDE ALL MY SECRETS,
BUT --
>>
IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS WRITTEN IN
THE 1950s, AND THERE’S A GUY
WITH A SUPER 8 CAMERA ON THE
COVER.
>> ACTUALLY OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE
STARTED ON SUPER 8. MY FAMILY
HAD A SUPER 8 CAMERA INSTEAD OF
A VIDEO CAMERA.
>> MY EARLIEST MEMORIES,
LITERALLY ARE OF CHRIS MAKING
MOVIES.
>> NOLAN’S YOUNGER BROTHER,
JONATHAN, IS A HOLLYWOOD
DIRECTOR, WHO TOLD US THAT
CHRIS WAS HANDED THE FAMILY
EIGHT MILLIMETER CAMERA TO KEEP
HIM BUSY.
>> OUR TAKE ON STAR WARS, OF
COURSE, IN THE BASEMENT,
BLOWING UP SOME OF MY TOYS WITH
FIRE CRACKERS.
PROBABLY -- PROBABLY EIGHT OR
NINE YEARS OLD AT THAT POINT.
I WOULD HAVE BEEN THREE OR
FOUR.
>> WHAT WAS IT THAT FASCINATED
HIM ABOUT THE CAMERA?
>> I THINK HE’S JUST ALWAYS
BEEN CAPTIVATED BY THE IDEA
THAT YOU COULD TAKE THIS DEVICE
AND USE IT AS A PORTAL INTO
ANOTHER UNIVERSE.
IT WAS LIKE A DOOR.
>> ANOTHER UNIVERSE, BUT A DOOR
THAT, AT FIRST, CHRIS NOLAN HAD
TO BATTER THROUGH.
LIKE THE ASTRONAUT IN
"INTERSTELLAR."
>> AS A YOUNG MAN, YOU
GRADUATED WITH A DEGREE IN
LITERATURE.
HMM.
>> YOU APPLIED TO FILM SCHOOL?
>> MHMM.
>> AND THEY TURNED YOU DOWN.
>> HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
>> RESEARCH.
>> GOD.
>> YOU KNOW ABOUT RESEARCH?
>> OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
YES.
>> WHAT DID THE FILM SCHOOL
TELL YOU?
>> NOTHING.
YOU JUST GOT A LETTER SAYING,
NO THANKS.
>> I WANT TO BE A WRITER
ANYWAY.
>> DESPITE NO THANKS, HE KEPT
SHOOTING FILMS ON WEEKENDS WITH
FRIENDS.
THEN IN 1999, A TURNING POINT.
HE MADE "MEMENTO."
>> I DON’T REMEMBER.
>> IT’S A COMPLEX MYSTERY WITH
AN AMNESIAC INVESTIGATOR WHO
REMEMBERS CLUES THROUGH
TATTOOS.
THIS WAS AN EARLY REVEAL OF
NOLAN’S TRADEMARK, AN INTRICATE
PLOT OF SHIFTING TIMELINES THAT
CHALLENGES THE AUDIENCE TO KEEP
UP.
BUT MOVIE EXECUTIVES FEARED IT
WAS CONFUSING.
>> SOMETHING DOESN’T FEEL
RIGHT.
>> NO ONE WANTED TO DISTRIBUTE
"MEMENTO."
>> YEAH.
WELL, YOU DON’T HAVE TO SAY IT
QUITE LIKE THAT, QUITE SO
STERNLY.
I MEAN, IT HAD --
>>
WELL, THIS STORY HAS A HAPPEN
ENDING.
>> THE THIS STORY DOES HAVE A
HAPPY ENDING.
AND NO, IT WAS A LESSON IN
HUMILITY, IT WAS A LESSON OF
PATIENCE.
OF INDEPENDENT FILMMAKING,
WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, YOU FINISH
A FILM, AND YOU REALLY FEEL
YOU’VE ACHIEVED SOMETHING.
BUT CONVINCINGLY THE INDUSTRY
OF THAT, THE DISTRIBUTERS OF
THAT, IT CAN TAKE A LONG TIME.
>> IT TOOK A YEAR TO FIND
SOMEONE TO DISTRIBUTE
"MEMENTO."
BUT AUDIENCES FOUND AMNESIA
UNFORGETTABLE.
AND THE SO-CALLED CONFUSING
SCREENPLAY WAS NOMINATED FOR AN
OSCAR.
>> EVERY NO THAT HE GOT JUST
CONFIRMED FOR HIM EVEN MORE
THAT HE WANTED TO DO THIS.
>> EMMA THOMAS MET NOLAN FIRST
DAY OF COLLEGE.
SHE’S PRODUCED ALL OF HIS FILMS
AND THEIR FOUR CHILDREN.
THEY’VE BEEN MARRIED 26 YEARS.
>> I CANNOT IMAGINE, CHRIS, IF
HE WASN’T MAKING FILMS.
AND OUTSIDE OF, YOU KNOW,
FAMILY, WHICH IS PROBABLY THE
MOST IMPORTANT THING TO HIM,
NO, GENUINELY THAT’S THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING TO HIM.
IT’S HORRIFYING TO ME HOW
FRUSTRATED HE WOULD BE IF HE
WASN’T ABLE TO TELL STORIES VIA
THE MEDIUM OF FILM.
>> A MEDIUM HE PREFERS EXTRA
LARGE.
HE COLLAPSED AN ACTUAL BUILDING
IN "THE DARK KNIGHT."
NOLAN USES COMPUTER ANIMATION,
BUT NOT IF THE AUTHENTIC IS
HUMANLY POSSIBLE.
IN THE FILM, "TENET," HE BOUGHT
A 747 AND BUILT A HANGAR TO
CRASH IT INTO.
IN 2024, HE BLEW UP THE ACADEMY
AWARDS.
"OPPENHEIMER" WON SEVEN OSCARS
INCLUDING NOLAN’S FIRST FOR
BEST DIRECTOR AND BEST PICTURE.
>> SEEMS TO ME YOU MAKE MOVIES
THE HARD WAY, AND THE HARDER
THE BETTER AS FAR AS YOU’RE
CONCERNED?
>> THE HARDER THE BETTER RIGHT
TO THE POINT OF THE "ODYSSEY."
AND I THINK WE PUSHED PRETTY
HARD ON THIS ONE, AND MAYBE
FOUND SOME LIMITS.
>> LET’S GO!
>> NOLAN’S ODYSSEY BROUGHT MATT
DAMON AND THOUSANDS OF CAST AND
CREW TO GREECE, ICELAND,
MOROCCO, ITALY, AND SCOTLAND.
HE SHOT TWO MILLION FEET OF
IMAX FILM.
HA!
UNBELIEVABLE!
WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU SEE
THAT?
YOU’VE SEEN IT A HUNDRED TIMES?
>> I’VE SEEN IT A THOUSAND
TIMES.
I MEAN, I THINK IT’S A LOT OF
WORK BY A LOT OF PEOPLE.
>> I HAVE THE SENSE YOU DON’T
THINK OF YOURSELF AS THE MOST
IMPORTANT PERSON ON THE SET?
>> I THINK OF MYSELF AS THE
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE AUDIENCE
ON SET.
THAT’S MY NORTH STAR.
THAT’S HOW I HAVE TO BE LOOKING
AT THE FILM.
SO IN A SENSE, I AM THE MOST
IMPORTANT PERSON ON THE SET
BECAUSE I’M THE AUDIENCE.
>> IN TAKING ON "THE ODYSSEY,"
IT DOES BECOME ABOUT SCALE.
IT NEEDED TO BE THE BIGGEST
FILM THAT WE HAVE DONE.
IT NEEDED TO BE CHALLENGING TO
ALL OF US BECAUSE THAT’S THE
NATURE OF THE STORY.
>> LOOKS LIKE YOU NEARLY
DROWNED MATT DAMON.
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> WE CERTAINLY PUT HIM THROUGH
HIS PACES.
>> I MEAN, IT WAS THE HARDEST
MOVIE I’VE EVER DONE BY FAR.
I MEAN, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
>> THIS IS DAMON’S THIRD NOLAN
FILM AFTER "INTERSTELLAR" AND
"OPPENHEIMER."
>> THE FIRST MEETING I HAD WITH
HIM AT THE END OF THE MEETING,
HE SAID, "THIS MOVIE’S GOING TO
BE HARD."
I KIND OF LOOKED AT HIM.
I DON’T KNOW, I’VE MADE
HUNDREDS OF MOVIES.
I SAID, YEAH, I KNOW.
AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND WENT,
NO, THIS MOVIE’S GOING TO BE
REALLY HARD.
>> NOLAN OFTEN RETURNS TO HIS
STARS INCLUDING CILLIAN MURPHY
IN THE BATMAN FILMS, "DUNKIRK,"
AND "OPPENHEIMER."
>> HE REALLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT
ACTORS DO AND WHAT IS REQUIRED
OF THEM TO DO IT.
>> HE’S AN ACTOR’S DIRECTOR?
>> AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED,
YEAH.
PEOPLE MIGHT NOT THINK OF HIM
THAT WAY BECAUSE THE CANVAS HE
PAINTS ON IS SO BIG.
BUT LOOK AT THE PERFORMANCES IN
HIS MOVIES.
>> PARTICULARLY THE CASE OF
ACTORS, YOU’RE HANDING THEM A
SCRIPT AND YOU’RE SAYING, OKAY,
YOU GO AWAY AND YOU BECOME AN
EXPERT ON THE CHARACTER’S
PERSPECTIVE ON THE STORY.
SO THEN WHEN I’M ON SET,
THEY’RE INFORMING ME, YOU KNOW.
THEY’RE BRINGING ME INFORMATION
ABOUT HOW THAT CHARACTER WOULD
SEE THINGS, HOW THAT CHARACTER
PLAYS.
SO IN A WAY, IT’S THE OPPOSITE
OF WHAT PEOPLE THINK IT IS.
>> I THINK WHAT SEPARATES HIM
FROM OTHER DIRECTORS IS THE
STORIES HE WANTS TO TELL ARE
INCREDIBLY AMBITIOUS.
AND THE WAY HE WANTS TO TELL
THEM IS INCREDIBLY AMBITIOUS.
IN THIS CASE, HE WANTED TO DO
IT 100% IN IMAX, WHICH NEVER
BEEN DONE.
>> IMAX IS NOLAN’S GREAT
AMBITION.
>> IT’S REALLY A WONDERFUL WAY
TO RETAIN THE ORIGINAL IMAGE.
>> "THE ODYSSEY" IS THE FIRST
FEATURE SHOT COMPLETELY ON THE
GIANT FILM FORMAT.
WHEN NOLAN WAS 16, HE SAW AN
IMAX DOCUMENTARY AT AMY SEEM,
AND WAS SPELLBOUND BY THE
FIVE-STORY SCREEN.
BUT IMAX IS EXPENSIVE AND
CUMBERSOME.
DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY AND EDITING
ARE FASTER AND CHEAPER, SO
ALMOST NO ONE DOES THIS
ANYMORE.
LOOK AT THE SPLICING MACHINE.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS MADE IN
THE 1940s.
>> IT PROBABLY WAS.
>> WE WATCHED "THE ODYSSEY"
BEING CUT AND GLUED TOGETHER IN
THE LAST FILM LAB OF ITS KIND
IN THE WORLD.
WHY KEEP THIS ANCIENT ART
ALIVE?
WELL, THE 70 MILLIMETER IMAX
FRAME HAS RESOLUTION OR IMAGE
QUALITY UP TO THREE TIMES
HIGHER THAN DIGITAL.
ART THE HARD WAY.
>> AND THERE IT IS.
>> OH, NICE.
VERY CLEAN.
HOLLYWOOD COULD SAY IMAX ISN’T
PRACTICAL.
SCREENPLAYS SHOULDN’T CHALLENGE
THE AUDIENCE, AND COMPUTERS ARE
CHEAPER THAN A 747.
BUT THE PEOPLE WE CALL ARTISTS
ARE INSPIRED BY DREAMS LIKE A
7-YEAR-OLD WITH A SUPER 8. HOW
WOULD YOU LIKE HOLLYWOOD
HISTORIANS TO DESCRIBE YOUR
CAREER?
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> LONG.
[ LAUGHTER ] I’D LOVE TO FEEL
THAT I HAD
ADDED SOMETHING TO THE BODY OF
WORK OF ALL THE FILMMAKERS I
HAVE ADMIRED AND THAT GREAT
FILM HISTORY THAT’S DEVELOPING.
IF I CAN PLAY SOME PART IN
MOVING THE LANGUAGE A BIT
FORWARD SOMEHOW, THAT WOULD BE
A GREAT THING TO BE REMEMBERED
FOR.
[ STOPWATCH TICKING ]
>> I’M