1 00:00:00,098 --> 00:00:03,087 [TICKING] 2 00:00:06,027 --> 00:00:08,020 [WHOOSHING] 3 00:00:08,020 --> 00:00:11,044 SCOTT PELLEY: Tonight, as US and Israeli strikes on Iran 4 00:00:11,044 --> 00:00:15,072 continue, the most prominent leader of the Iranian opposition 5 00:00:15,072 --> 00:00:20,048 tells us he believes the regime in Tehran is collapsing, 6 00:00:20,048 --> 00:00:23,036 and he wants to lead the transition. 7 00:00:23,036 --> 00:00:28,016 You have been out of the country for nearly 50 years. 8 00:00:28,016 --> 00:00:30,060 Why would the people want you? 9 00:00:30,060 --> 00:00:32,037 [TICKING] 10 00:00:32,037 --> 00:00:34,008 BILL WHITAKER: When Judge John Coughenour 11 00:00:34,008 --> 00:00:37,080 blocked President Trump's bid to end birthright citizenship, 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,092 he wasn't prepared for what happened next. 13 00:00:40,092 --> 00:00:41,094 Death threats? 14 00:00:41,094 --> 00:00:42,066 Oh, yes. 15 00:00:42,066 --> 00:00:46,008 Oh, yes, dozens of them, dozens, if not hundreds. 16 00:00:46,008 --> 00:00:48,076 BILL WHITAKER: He's one of 400 federal judges who 17 00:00:48,076 --> 00:00:51,048 were targets of serious threats last year, 18 00:00:51,048 --> 00:00:55,002 a 78% jump since 2021. 19 00:00:55,002 --> 00:00:58,026 If we're not careful, we're gonna get a judge killed. 20 00:00:58,026 --> 00:00:59,076 [TICKING] 21 00:00:59,076 --> 00:01:01,025 [SIREN WAILING] 22 00:01:01,025 --> 00:01:03,009 SHARYN ALFONSI: Four years ago, a gunman 23 00:01:03,009 --> 00:01:06,085 opened fire at Oxford High School, about 40 miles north 24 00:01:06,085 --> 00:01:07,071 of Detroit. 25 00:01:07,071 --> 00:01:09,083 PARENT (ON PHONE): My son is texting me and saying, 26 00:01:09,083 --> 00:01:10,025 they're shooting at him. 27 00:01:10,025 --> 00:01:11,045 911 OPERATOR (ON PHONE): OK, ma'am, I'm going to let-- 28 00:01:11,045 --> 00:01:14,013 SHARYN ALFONSI: He was sentenced to life in prison, 29 00:01:14,013 --> 00:01:17,085 but prosecutors argued he wasn't the only one to blame. 30 00:01:17,085 --> 00:01:20,029 Do you think his parents failed him? 31 00:01:20,029 --> 00:01:21,017 Yes. 32 00:01:21,017 --> 00:01:24,063 This kid was asking for help at every level, 33 00:01:24,063 --> 00:01:26,019 and he didn't get it. 34 00:01:26,019 --> 00:01:28,047 And he did something horrible. 35 00:01:28,047 --> 00:01:29,093 [TICKING] 36 00:01:30,089 --> 00:01:32,045 I'm Lesley Stahl. 37 00:01:32,045 --> 00:01:33,077 I'm Scott Pelley. 38 00:01:33,077 --> 00:01:35,023 I'm Bill Whitaker. 39 00:01:35,023 --> 00:01:36,037 I'm Anderson Cooper. 40 00:01:36,037 --> 00:01:37,087 I'm Sharyn Alfonsi. 41 00:01:37,087 --> 00:01:39,023 I'm Cecilia Vega. 42 00:01:39,023 --> 00:01:40,045 I'm Jon Wertheim. 43 00:01:40,045 --> 00:01:42,051 Those stories and in our last minute, 44 00:01:42,051 --> 00:01:46,077 a great poet with prose on being an American, tonight on 60 45 00:01:46,077 --> 00:01:47,035 Minutes. 46 00:01:47,035 --> 00:01:50,068 [TICKING] 47 00:01:55,041 --> 00:01:58,021 The United States and Israel conducted a second day 48 00:01:58,021 --> 00:02:00,086 of strikes on targets across Iran. 49 00:02:00,086 --> 00:02:03,046 Iran's Supreme Leader has been killed. 50 00:02:03,046 --> 00:02:05,090 Tehran has retaliated with missile attacks 51 00:02:05,090 --> 00:02:09,062 on Israel, neighboring countries, and US military bases 52 00:02:09,062 --> 00:02:10,074 in the region. 53 00:02:10,074 --> 00:02:14,050 At least three American service members have been killed. 54 00:02:14,050 --> 00:02:18,018 Scott Pelley is in Paris, following events, including 55 00:02:18,018 --> 00:02:21,094 what could be next for Iran. 56 00:02:21,094 --> 00:02:26,082 Tonight, the most prominent member of the Iranian opposition 57 00:02:26,082 --> 00:02:30,014 says he believes the Iranian regime is collapsing 58 00:02:30,014 --> 00:02:32,042 and he would like to lead a transition that 59 00:02:32,042 --> 00:02:34,086 makes Iran safe for the world. 60 00:02:34,086 --> 00:02:40,000 65-year-old Reza Pahlavi is the son of the former king, 61 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,026 or Shah of Iran, who was deposed in 1979 by revolutionaries 62 00:02:45,026 --> 00:02:48,018 and hardline Islamic clerics. 63 00:02:48,018 --> 00:02:50,058 In that year of revolution, Pahlavi 64 00:02:50,058 --> 00:02:54,094 was 18 years old and living in Lubbock, Texas, 65 00:02:54,094 --> 00:02:57,006 where the US Air Force was training 66 00:02:57,006 --> 00:02:59,026 him to be a fighter pilot. 67 00:02:59,026 --> 00:03:01,036 He was never able to go home. 68 00:03:01,036 --> 00:03:06,098 He has lived in exile 47 years, mostly in the United States. 69 00:03:06,098 --> 00:03:10,030 But tonight he's in Paris, where we asked him 70 00:03:10,030 --> 00:03:13,090 if he wants to be king, what Iran's policy should 71 00:03:13,090 --> 00:03:16,062 be toward Israel and nuclear weapons. 72 00:03:16,062 --> 00:03:19,062 We started our interview with the news 73 00:03:19,062 --> 00:03:23,098 that the Supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini, 74 00:03:23,098 --> 00:03:28,098 had been killed in the opening hours of the war. 75 00:03:28,098 --> 00:03:33,078 It is definitely a sort of earth-shattering event 76 00:03:33,078 --> 00:03:37,082 in the sense that when people identify the entire monstrosity 77 00:03:37,082 --> 00:03:42,030 of the regime that is depicted ultimately by the chief monster 78 00:03:42,030 --> 00:03:44,098 of these monsters, when he's gone, 79 00:03:44,098 --> 00:03:48,080 the minute such a personality disappears, it's like elation. 80 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,078 It was like, oh my God, it has finally occurred. 81 00:03:51,078 --> 00:03:54,014 Maybe this is it, this is our chance now. 82 00:03:54,014 --> 00:03:57,014 You call him a monster. 83 00:03:57,014 --> 00:03:58,015 What do you mean? 84 00:03:58,015 --> 00:04:00,081 Well, I mean, ever since this regime has taken over, 85 00:04:00,081 --> 00:04:03,027 how many Iranians' lives have been lost? 86 00:04:03,027 --> 00:04:04,095 I don't think you can have an example 87 00:04:04,095 --> 00:04:08,021 of such level of atrocity ever in the history of Iran, 88 00:04:08,021 --> 00:04:09,067 or at least contemporary Iran, that 89 00:04:09,067 --> 00:04:11,041 has occurred under this regime. 90 00:04:11,041 --> 00:04:14,095 And this is all because of Ali Khomeini's insistence 91 00:04:14,095 --> 00:04:17,039 and persistence to keep himself and his mafia 92 00:04:17,039 --> 00:04:20,035 regime in power at the expense of the Iranian people. 93 00:04:20,035 --> 00:04:22,003 I don't know how else can you depict 94 00:04:22,003 --> 00:04:24,067 it, other than being true monsters 95 00:04:24,067 --> 00:04:26,013 in the real sense of the word. 96 00:04:26,013 --> 00:04:27,047 [CROWD YELLING] 97 00:04:27,047 --> 00:04:29,071 SCOTT PELLEY: This past January, Iranians 98 00:04:29,071 --> 00:04:31,043 poured into the streets. 99 00:04:31,043 --> 00:04:36,035 Pahlavi urged them on, and hundreds of thousands marched. 100 00:04:36,035 --> 00:04:41,067 The regime gunned down an estimated 20,000 citizens. 101 00:04:41,067 --> 00:04:45,055 The massacre was a prelude to war. 102 00:04:45,055 --> 00:04:51,023 This is video overnight, after the announcement 103 00:04:51,023 --> 00:04:56,084 of the death of the Ayatollah in the city of Isfahan. 104 00:04:56,084 --> 00:04:58,088 What does that mean to you? 105 00:04:58,088 --> 00:05:01,096 REZA PAHLAVI: That means that, finally, we 106 00:05:01,096 --> 00:05:03,058 are ready to go back to the streets, 107 00:05:03,058 --> 00:05:06,040 even though I've cautioned them that for now, you better 108 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,058 take care of your own safety and stay at home. 109 00:05:08,058 --> 00:05:10,062 The time will come to go back out on the streets. 110 00:05:10,062 --> 00:05:13,040 But then again, you see that despite that, people still 111 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,022 are brave enough to say, to hell with it. 112 00:05:16,022 --> 00:05:17,062 Because to us, it's liberation. 113 00:05:17,062 --> 00:05:20,068 To us, it's like a humanitarian intervention 114 00:05:20,068 --> 00:05:22,060 to protect lives that could otherwise 115 00:05:22,060 --> 00:05:24,022 be continued to be lost. 116 00:05:24,022 --> 00:05:27,092 It gives the Iranian people a real opportunity now, 117 00:05:27,092 --> 00:05:30,084 when they see the end of this regime, that was always bound 118 00:05:30,084 --> 00:05:33,021 to collapse, whether there was an intervention or not. 119 00:05:33,021 --> 00:05:35,004 I want to make sure your audience understand 120 00:05:35,004 --> 00:05:37,002 that, that we were prepared to fight the fight. 121 00:05:37,002 --> 00:05:39,040 There was too much blood between us and this regime. 122 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,024 We were committed to fight, regardless 123 00:05:41,024 --> 00:05:43,048 of outside intervention. 124 00:05:43,048 --> 00:05:46,036 They're thanking President Trump for actually standing 125 00:05:46,036 --> 00:05:48,086 on his word and acting upon his word. 126 00:05:48,086 --> 00:05:51,088 Do you actually believe this regime could 127 00:05:51,088 --> 00:05:53,098 fall after almost 50 years? 128 00:05:53,098 --> 00:05:55,025 Of course. 129 00:05:55,025 --> 00:05:57,013 SCOTT PELLEY: Prince Reza Pahlavi 130 00:05:57,013 --> 00:06:02,033 told us he wants to lead Iran in a transition to democracy. 131 00:06:02,033 --> 00:06:03,061 You don't want to be king? 132 00:06:03,061 --> 00:06:07,001 I'm not running for office. 133 00:06:07,001 --> 00:06:08,049 I'm not. 134 00:06:08,049 --> 00:06:10,013 Are you saying in this interview 135 00:06:10,013 --> 00:06:13,001 that you wouldn't lead Iran? 136 00:06:13,001 --> 00:06:14,027 That's a different thing. 137 00:06:14,027 --> 00:06:17,029 They trust me as the transitional leader, not as 138 00:06:17,029 --> 00:06:21,023 the future king or future president or future whatever. 139 00:06:21,023 --> 00:06:22,097 I'm totally focused on my mission 140 00:06:22,097 --> 00:06:25,057 in life, which is, let me bring the country to a point 141 00:06:25,057 --> 00:06:27,015 that they can make that free choice. 142 00:06:27,015 --> 00:06:28,057 That will be enough for me, having 143 00:06:28,057 --> 00:06:30,001 said mission accomplished. 144 00:06:30,001 --> 00:06:32,049 You imagine peace with Israel? 145 00:06:32,049 --> 00:06:33,097 Of course. 146 00:06:33,097 --> 00:06:37,061 In modern history, Iran actually gave refuge 147 00:06:37,061 --> 00:06:40,065 to Jews that were escaping the Nazis during the Second World 148 00:06:40,065 --> 00:06:44,029 War, giving them refuge and sanctuary in Iran. 149 00:06:44,029 --> 00:06:47,061 The strategic importance of having a partnership with Israel 150 00:06:47,061 --> 00:06:48,073 is critical. 151 00:06:48,073 --> 00:06:51,085 What are the principles on which 152 00:06:51,085 --> 00:06:53,097 you would build a new Iran? 153 00:06:53,097 --> 00:06:59,005 I think what today unites us are four core principles that I 154 00:06:59,005 --> 00:07:02,037 think is the subject of how we can work together 155 00:07:02,037 --> 00:07:03,049 towards that end. 156 00:07:03,049 --> 00:07:06,045 Number one is Iran's territorial integrity. 157 00:07:06,045 --> 00:07:08,021 Number two is the clear separation 158 00:07:08,021 --> 00:07:11,019 of religion from state, which is a prerequisite to democracy. 159 00:07:11,019 --> 00:07:13,009 And we paid the price understanding 160 00:07:13,009 --> 00:07:15,097 what it means to live under a religious dictatorship. 161 00:07:15,097 --> 00:07:17,057 Number three is, of course, equality 162 00:07:17,057 --> 00:07:20,091 of all citizens under the law and individual liberties. 163 00:07:20,091 --> 00:07:24,009 And most importantly, the process, a democratic process 164 00:07:24,009 --> 00:07:26,089 to allow the people to elect and decide what 165 00:07:26,089 --> 00:07:29,025 their future system of governance should be. 166 00:07:29,025 --> 00:07:33,045 What would happen to the nuclear weapons program? 167 00:07:33,045 --> 00:07:35,067 I think it should be totally dismantled. 168 00:07:35,067 --> 00:07:39,093 I don't think Iran has any need to pursue a military weaponizing 169 00:07:39,093 --> 00:07:41,061 of the nuclear program. 170 00:07:41,061 --> 00:07:44,077 SCOTT PELLEY: Pahlavi's father was the last king. 171 00:07:44,077 --> 00:07:48,059 Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was close to the United States, 172 00:07:48,059 --> 00:07:52,061 but he brutally suppressed opposition and showered friends 173 00:07:52,061 --> 00:07:54,042 with lavish wealth. 174 00:07:54,042 --> 00:07:59,082 In 1979, he left Iran amid rising political tension, 175 00:07:59,082 --> 00:08:03,026 and a hardline cleric, Ayatollah Khomeini, 176 00:08:03,026 --> 00:08:07,010 returned from exile to lead a revolution. 177 00:08:07,010 --> 00:08:10,094 Iranians blamed the US for supporting the King, 178 00:08:10,094 --> 00:08:15,064 and revolutionaries overran the US embassy in Tehran, 179 00:08:15,064 --> 00:08:21,094 and held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days. 180 00:08:21,094 --> 00:08:28,026 Your father's reign is remembered for repression 181 00:08:28,026 --> 00:08:31,030 and opulent wealth. 182 00:08:31,030 --> 00:08:36,074 And I wonder why you believe the people would welcome you now? 183 00:08:36,074 --> 00:08:39,008 Well, that's perhaps one narrative. 184 00:08:39,008 --> 00:08:43,050 But when you look at a lot of people who were, at the time, 185 00:08:43,050 --> 00:08:47,034 living that era, they were telling me, you know what? 186 00:08:47,034 --> 00:08:51,014 We recognize where we were and where we are now. 187 00:08:51,014 --> 00:08:52,092 And today we want to be with you. 188 00:08:52,092 --> 00:08:53,073 We support you. 189 00:08:53,073 --> 00:08:55,019 We back you. 190 00:08:55,019 --> 00:08:58,051 And there were people who were in those so-called prisons 191 00:08:58,051 --> 00:09:01,031 that were notorious or repressive or whatever you call, 192 00:09:01,031 --> 00:09:04,037 they were imprisoned under the previous regime. 193 00:09:04,037 --> 00:09:07,009 People were killed in your father's regime. 194 00:09:07,009 --> 00:09:09,099 Look, look, my father left Iran 195 00:09:09,099 --> 00:09:13,051 voluntarily to avoid bloodshed. 196 00:09:13,051 --> 00:09:16,047 And he said-- he said, I'm a king. 197 00:09:16,047 --> 00:09:20,045 A king doesn't build his throne on the blood of his own people. 198 00:09:20,045 --> 00:09:24,007 If the nation today wants me out, I would leave. 199 00:09:24,007 --> 00:09:26,035 I will not turn my guns on them. 200 00:09:26,035 --> 00:09:31,019 You have been out of the country for nearly 50 years. 201 00:09:31,019 --> 00:09:33,091 Why would the people want you? 202 00:09:33,091 --> 00:09:35,081 If they thought that was an issue, 203 00:09:35,081 --> 00:09:38,051 I don't think they would be calling my name by the millions 204 00:09:38,051 --> 00:09:39,095 on the streets of Iran. 205 00:09:39,095 --> 00:09:43,043 I think that part of the reason people trust me only is 206 00:09:43,043 --> 00:09:47,035 because they cannot associate me in any way or form 207 00:09:47,035 --> 00:09:51,035 to the revolution, or to be part of this regime. 208 00:09:51,035 --> 00:09:53,064 The very same people who today are 209 00:09:53,064 --> 00:09:55,072 in the streets, all the young kids that 210 00:09:55,072 --> 00:09:59,048 are getting shot and massacred by this regime, 211 00:09:59,048 --> 00:10:05,030 are a generation that turns to their parents and tell them, 212 00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:07,088 what the hell were you thinking? 213 00:10:07,088 --> 00:10:11,040 What was that madness to think that this Khomeini character is 214 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,082 going to be our solution and our path to freedom? 215 00:10:14,082 --> 00:10:16,056 And look at where we are now. 216 00:10:16,056 --> 00:10:20,000 But from the day I left, I never left Iran. 217 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,034 Iran had been on my mind every single year of my life, 218 00:10:25,034 --> 00:10:26,026 every single day. 219 00:10:26,026 --> 00:10:29,008 When I wake up in the morning, the first thing 220 00:10:29,008 --> 00:10:30,072 that's in my mind is Iran. 221 00:10:30,072 --> 00:10:32,032 SCOTT PELLEY: Pahlavi told us he is 222 00:10:32,032 --> 00:10:34,080 in touch with the Trump administration 223 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,008 and members of Congress. 224 00:10:37,008 --> 00:10:40,048 What is your message to President Trump? 225 00:10:40,048 --> 00:10:42,040 My message to President Trump is 226 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,036 that I'm here to echo and join millions 227 00:10:45,036 --> 00:10:48,008 of my compatriots inside and outside of Iran 228 00:10:48,008 --> 00:10:52,036 to thank him for having done and having the courage to do what 229 00:10:52,036 --> 00:10:55,006 is not easy, but intervene. 230 00:10:55,006 --> 00:10:58,004 And he will go down in the annals of Iranian history 231 00:10:58,004 --> 00:11:00,000 as the most celebrated foreign leader 232 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,088 that changed the ball game and changed the world as a result. 233 00:11:03,088 --> 00:11:09,052 In January, President Trump said this about you, quote, 234 00:11:09,052 --> 00:11:12,096 "He seems very nice, but I don't know how he'd 235 00:11:12,096 --> 00:11:15,036 play within his own country. 236 00:11:15,036 --> 00:11:17,032 I don't know whether or not his country 237 00:11:17,032 --> 00:11:19,036 would accept his leadership. 238 00:11:19,036 --> 00:11:23,044 And certainly if they would that would be fine with me." 239 00:11:23,044 --> 00:11:28,042 You don't seem to have President Trump's wholehearted support. 240 00:11:28,042 --> 00:11:29,088 Well, first of all, I don't think 241 00:11:29,088 --> 00:11:31,072 that somebody in my position will ever 242 00:11:31,072 --> 00:11:34,068 expect to have an official endorsement 243 00:11:34,068 --> 00:11:37,000 of a foreign government or a foreign leader. 244 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,068 What I do know now is that millions of Iranians inside Iran 245 00:11:40,068 --> 00:11:42,086 and outside of Iran are calling my name. 246 00:11:42,086 --> 00:11:46,052 They recognize in me the person uniquely placed 247 00:11:46,052 --> 00:11:49,008 to play a role of transitional leadership, 248 00:11:49,008 --> 00:11:52,035 not running for office because that's not what I'm doing, 249 00:11:52,035 --> 00:11:54,019 but to be a bridge to that destiny. 250 00:11:54,019 --> 00:11:55,013 [WHOOSHING] 251 00:11:55,013 --> 00:11:57,053 SCOTT PELLEY: Unrest has been building for months. 252 00:11:57,053 --> 00:12:00,073 Last June, US and Israeli forces attacked 253 00:12:00,073 --> 00:12:03,005 Iran's nuclear facilities. 254 00:12:03,005 --> 00:12:08,037 And in 2022, one of the largest uprisings in the nearly 50-year 255 00:12:08,037 --> 00:12:11,029 history of the regime erupted. 256 00:12:11,029 --> 00:12:15,071 Iran's morality police arrested a 22-year-old woman, 257 00:12:15,071 --> 00:12:19,029 accusing her of failing to cover her hair. 258 00:12:19,029 --> 00:12:21,077 She was killed in custody. 259 00:12:21,077 --> 00:12:24,025 And crowds moved into the streets 260 00:12:24,025 --> 00:12:27,017 to demand an end to the regime. 261 00:12:27,017 --> 00:12:32,087 Security forces killed more than 500, arrested 22,000, 262 00:12:32,087 --> 00:12:35,001 and blacked out the internet. 263 00:12:35,001 --> 00:12:40,081 Much of the population has been seething right through today. 264 00:12:40,081 --> 00:12:45,073 When you see the courage on the streets 265 00:12:45,073 --> 00:12:50,062 that we're witnessing now, I wonder how that moves you? 266 00:12:50,062 --> 00:12:54,026 I think it's the ultimate definition of heroism. 267 00:12:54,026 --> 00:12:58,014 Do you remember that lone Chinese student 268 00:12:58,014 --> 00:13:01,070 in Tiananmen Square standing in front of that tank? 269 00:13:01,070 --> 00:13:04,022 I remember that image. 270 00:13:04,022 --> 00:13:06,078 Let me give you another visual that has been 271 00:13:06,078 --> 00:13:10,002 going viral on the cyberspace-- 272 00:13:10,002 --> 00:13:13,026 that firefighter who was carrying a wounded person that 273 00:13:13,026 --> 00:13:15,088 was shot on the streets just a few weeks ago, 274 00:13:15,088 --> 00:13:19,002 and they shot him to death. 275 00:13:19,002 --> 00:13:24,052 That image, exemplify that. 276 00:13:35,014 --> 00:13:37,012 It's a tremendous thing to witness. 277 00:13:39,070 --> 00:13:44,086 Pahlavi told us there are units in the military and police who 278 00:13:44,086 --> 00:13:47,082 have signaled to him that they would turn 279 00:13:47,082 --> 00:13:49,091 on the hardline government. 280 00:13:49,091 --> 00:13:52,087 He says many, but not all troops, 281 00:13:52,087 --> 00:13:55,079 could be given amnesty in a process 282 00:13:55,079 --> 00:13:58,039 of national reconciliation. 283 00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:02,007 And in fact, it would be a clear indication that this is 284 00:14:02,007 --> 00:14:03,081 the time for them to make a decision-- 285 00:14:03,081 --> 00:14:05,073 do you want to join this time with the people, 286 00:14:05,073 --> 00:14:08,007 or do you want to stand with the sinking ship? 287 00:14:08,007 --> 00:14:11,027 It's possible that this interview will penetrate 288 00:14:11,027 --> 00:14:12,097 the internet blackout. 289 00:14:12,097 --> 00:14:17,047 And I wonder what you say to the Iranian people? 290 00:14:17,047 --> 00:14:19,017 Have faith in yourselves. 291 00:14:19,017 --> 00:14:22,011 You are a nation with an ancient civilization. 292 00:14:22,011 --> 00:14:25,015 I know how proud you are of your heritage, 293 00:14:25,015 --> 00:14:27,095 how important Iran is to all of them. 294 00:14:27,095 --> 00:14:30,091 And I always said to them, I say you know what? 295 00:14:30,091 --> 00:14:35,011 I know you're always hoping for a better future. 296 00:14:35,011 --> 00:14:38,027 What I would like you to start doing, 297 00:14:38,027 --> 00:14:42,083 and I've started to answer my call, is instead of hoping, 298 00:14:42,083 --> 00:14:45,041 start believing that it can be done. 299 00:14:45,041 --> 00:14:48,011 [TICKING] 300 00:14:49,043 --> 00:14:51,069 ANNOUNCER: Five decades of covering Iran. 301 00:14:51,069 --> 00:14:55,053 He calls you, Imam-- forgive me, his words, not mine, 302 00:14:55,053 --> 00:14:56,055 "a lunatic." 303 00:14:56,055 --> 00:14:59,029 INTERPRETER: You are like a CIA investigator. 304 00:14:59,029 --> 00:15:00,091 MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD: [SPEAKING PERSIAN] 305 00:15:00,091 --> 00:15:03,031 ANNOUNCER: Go inside the 60 Minutes archive 306 00:15:03,031 --> 00:15:04,050 at 60minutesovertime.com. 307 00:15:04,050 --> 00:15:06,066 JOURNALIST (ON FILM): --rampage through the streets. 308 00:15:10,091 --> 00:15:13,051 When the Supreme Court recently struck down 309 00:15:13,051 --> 00:15:16,003 President Trump's tariffs, he lashed out 310 00:15:16,003 --> 00:15:18,045 at two justices he had nominated, 311 00:15:18,045 --> 00:15:20,099 calling them fools and lapdogs. 312 00:15:20,099 --> 00:15:23,063 The president has frequently railed against judges 313 00:15:23,063 --> 00:15:25,059 when they rule against him. 314 00:15:25,059 --> 00:15:27,091 What often happens next is a barrage 315 00:15:27,091 --> 00:15:31,083 of violent threats from his followers against those judges. 316 00:15:31,083 --> 00:15:36,083 We spoke with 26 federal judges, 9 Democratic appointees, 317 00:15:36,083 --> 00:15:40,055 17 Republican, both sitting and retired. 318 00:15:40,055 --> 00:15:44,035 The sitting judges told us they feel under siege. 319 00:15:44,035 --> 00:15:48,016 Most would not appear on camera, fearful for their safety. 320 00:15:48,016 --> 00:15:51,042 Judge John Coughenour, appointed by Ronald Reagan, 321 00:15:51,042 --> 00:15:53,080 is one of the few who would. 322 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,088 He blocked President Trump's bid to end birthright citizenship. 323 00:15:57,088 --> 00:16:02,060 He wasn't prepared for what happened next. 324 00:16:02,060 --> 00:16:07,066 My wife and I are at home and the doorbell rings. 325 00:16:07,066 --> 00:16:09,048 And I go to the door. 326 00:16:09,048 --> 00:16:14,000 And there's, I think, five sheriff's deputies there 327 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,088 with long rifles. 328 00:16:15,088 --> 00:16:17,046 And they show up with guns drawn? 329 00:16:17,046 --> 00:16:23,052 Oh, yeah, yes, yes, long guns, very intimidating guns. 330 00:16:23,052 --> 00:16:27,080 And they said to me, sir, could we see your wife? 331 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,092 And I said, whatever for? 332 00:16:30,092 --> 00:16:33,048 And they said, well, sir, we've had a report 333 00:16:33,048 --> 00:16:35,072 that you've murdered your wife. 334 00:16:35,072 --> 00:16:37,058 BILL WHITAKER: It was a cruel hoax. 335 00:16:37,058 --> 00:16:39,088 The next day-- a bomb threat. 336 00:16:39,088 --> 00:16:42,028 For John Coughenour, a federal district court 337 00:16:42,028 --> 00:16:45,034 judge in Washington State, it didn't end there. 338 00:16:45,034 --> 00:16:47,001 JOHN COUGHENOUR: There was a Congressman 339 00:16:47,001 --> 00:16:49,009 that had a Wanted poster. 340 00:16:49,009 --> 00:16:52,041 It said "WANTED" in big letters at the top and then a picture 341 00:16:52,041 --> 00:16:54,021 of several of us. 342 00:16:54,021 --> 00:16:57,003 It said everything except dead or alive. 343 00:16:57,003 --> 00:16:58,020 [INDISTINCT CHATTER ON PA] 344 00:16:58,020 --> 00:17:00,049 BILL WHITAKER: His trouble started when President Trump 345 00:17:00,049 --> 00:17:04,025 signed an executive order to end the 14th Amendment's guarantee 346 00:17:04,025 --> 00:17:09,001 of citizenship for infants born on US soil to non-citizens. 347 00:17:09,001 --> 00:17:11,039 Judge Coughenour ruled it, quote, 348 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:13,081 "blatantly unconstitutional." 349 00:17:13,081 --> 00:17:16,005 The threats poured in. 350 00:17:16,005 --> 00:17:21,033 Some of it was very, very ugly and very threatening. 351 00:17:21,033 --> 00:17:22,029 Death threats? 352 00:17:22,029 --> 00:17:23,007 Oh, yes. 353 00:17:23,007 --> 00:17:26,055 Oh, yes, dozens of them, dozens, if not hundreds. 354 00:17:26,055 --> 00:17:28,005 BILL WHITAKER: Judge Coughenour told 355 00:17:28,005 --> 00:17:30,049 us threats come with the turf. 356 00:17:30,049 --> 00:17:33,093 He has sentenced an Al-Qaida bomber and Montana militia 357 00:17:33,093 --> 00:17:37,025 members and needed round-the-clock protection. 358 00:17:37,025 --> 00:17:39,093 But he said he'd never had as many death 359 00:17:39,093 --> 00:17:43,031 threats as with the birthright citizenship case. 360 00:17:43,031 --> 00:17:46,022 I've been at this for 44 years. 361 00:17:46,022 --> 00:17:49,054 I have never encountered the hostility 362 00:17:49,054 --> 00:17:52,070 toward the judiciary that has existed 363 00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:55,054 in this country in the last year. 364 00:17:55,054 --> 00:18:00,002 And I don't think it's because we're making bad decisions. 365 00:18:00,002 --> 00:18:02,046 I think it's because there are people 366 00:18:02,046 --> 00:18:04,098 who think that they can make a lot of political hay 367 00:18:04,098 --> 00:18:07,078 out of criticizing the federal judiciary. 368 00:18:07,078 --> 00:18:10,050 And also, we cannot allow a handful of Communist, 369 00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:13,094 radical left judges to obstruct the enforcement of our laws 370 00:18:13,094 --> 00:18:17,070 and assume the duties that belong solely to the President 371 00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:19,000 of the United States. 372 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,042 BILL WHITAKER: When President Trump lost a battle in court 373 00:18:21,042 --> 00:18:25,046 to deport migrants, he called the judge a "lunatic." 374 00:18:25,046 --> 00:18:28,048 When immigration crackdowns were ruled illegal, 375 00:18:28,048 --> 00:18:30,070 he called the judges "monsters." 376 00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:33,000 It's incendiary comments like that 377 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,062 that have provoked a torrent of death threats. 378 00:18:36,062 --> 00:18:39,038 Our reporting found 100s of threats were left 379 00:18:39,038 --> 00:18:42,094 on judges' voicemails, this one after a judge ruled 380 00:18:42,094 --> 00:18:44,090 the president had violated the First Amendment. 381 00:18:44,090 --> 00:18:47,036 CALLER 1 (ON PHONE): I hope your whole family and everybody 382 00:18:47,036 --> 00:18:50,063 you love is raped in front of you and has their heads cut off. 383 00:18:50,063 --> 00:18:52,038 BILL WHITAKER: And this one, after a judge 384 00:18:52,038 --> 00:18:55,070 ruled the president couldn't cut certain government benefits. 385 00:18:55,070 --> 00:18:57,062 CALLER 2 (ON PHONE): And I wish somebody would 386 00:18:57,062 --> 00:18:59,074 [BLEEP] assassinate your ass. 387 00:18:59,074 --> 00:19:01,096 BILL WHITAKER: It's a volcano of vitriol. 388 00:19:01,096 --> 00:19:03,038 CALLER 2 (ON PHONE): I double dare 389 00:19:03,038 --> 00:19:06,026 you to try to put charges on Donald J. Trump, 390 00:19:06,026 --> 00:19:09,027 you son of a bitch. 391 00:19:09,027 --> 00:19:11,002 BILL WHITAKER: It falls to the US Marshals 392 00:19:11,002 --> 00:19:13,038 to pinpoint the verbal threats that might 393 00:19:13,038 --> 00:19:15,026 lead to physical violence. 394 00:19:15,026 --> 00:19:18,054 Judges told us the Marshals are overwhelmed. 395 00:19:18,054 --> 00:19:21,034 Last year, 400 federal judges were 396 00:19:21,034 --> 00:19:27,002 targets of serious threats, a 78% jump in four years. 397 00:19:27,002 --> 00:19:30,058 In very plain English, if we're not careful, 398 00:19:30,058 --> 00:19:33,034 we're going to get a judge killed. 399 00:19:33,034 --> 00:19:35,032 It's just that stark. 400 00:19:35,032 --> 00:19:36,040 It's that serious? 401 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,082 It's that serious. 402 00:19:37,082 --> 00:19:40,054 BILL WHITAKER: Judge John Jones is a retired federal judge 403 00:19:40,054 --> 00:19:44,007 from Pennsylvania, a George W. Bush appointee. 404 00:19:44,007 --> 00:19:48,025 He and 55 other retired judges were so concerned, 405 00:19:48,025 --> 00:19:51,047 they formed a bipartisan group to lobby the White House 406 00:19:51,047 --> 00:19:54,035 to stop demonizing judges. 407 00:19:54,035 --> 00:19:56,059 This is such a toxic environment 408 00:19:56,059 --> 00:20:00,035 where people are taking up arms and can identify 409 00:20:00,035 --> 00:20:03,055 where a judge lives, can strikeout against that judge 410 00:20:03,055 --> 00:20:05,027 or the judge's family members. 411 00:20:05,027 --> 00:20:10,099 So when President Trump attacks judges as "rogue, 412 00:20:10,099 --> 00:20:16,063 deranged, corrupt," what do you think he's doing and why? 413 00:20:16,063 --> 00:20:22,039 I think that he's attempting to delegitimize 414 00:20:22,039 --> 00:20:23,065 the federal courts. 415 00:20:23,065 --> 00:20:24,061 Why would he do that? 416 00:20:24,061 --> 00:20:26,017 What's the benefit to him? 417 00:20:26,017 --> 00:20:28,083 It's a presidency sort of on steroids. 418 00:20:28,083 --> 00:20:31,049 And you have a very dormant, I think, 419 00:20:31,049 --> 00:20:33,075 United States Congress and a president 420 00:20:33,075 --> 00:20:36,083 who means to really say what the law is. 421 00:20:36,083 --> 00:20:40,027 Well, civics taught me that Congress 422 00:20:40,027 --> 00:20:44,020 makes the law and the president faithfully executes 423 00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:45,070 the laws of the country. 424 00:20:45,070 --> 00:20:48,002 We've turned that on its head right now. 425 00:20:48,002 --> 00:20:49,048 OK, we'll sign right here, right? 426 00:20:49,048 --> 00:20:51,028 BILL WHITAKER: Judge Jones told us 427 00:20:51,028 --> 00:20:55,002 this White House is testing the bounds of presidential power. 428 00:20:55,002 --> 00:20:56,012 PROTESTERS: ICE out! 429 00:20:56,012 --> 00:20:58,004 BILL WHITAKER: Today, the Trump administration 430 00:20:58,004 --> 00:21:01,052 is facing 600 lawsuits contesting its agenda, 431 00:21:01,052 --> 00:21:03,084 from immigration to job cuts. 432 00:21:03,084 --> 00:21:07,044 Judges are caught squarely in the crossfire. 433 00:21:07,044 --> 00:21:13,044 As a judge who has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution 434 00:21:13,044 --> 00:21:17,040 and defend the rule of law, I have a duty to call this out. 435 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:18,091 That's why I'm talking to you. 436 00:21:18,091 --> 00:21:20,028 BILL WHITAKER: Judge Esther Salas 437 00:21:20,028 --> 00:21:23,016 is a federal district court judge in New Jersey. 438 00:21:23,016 --> 00:21:27,008 A Barack Obama appointee, she has become a leading voice 439 00:21:27,008 --> 00:21:30,068 against the personal attacks on judges, which has made her 440 00:21:30,068 --> 00:21:32,048 the target of death threats. 441 00:21:32,048 --> 00:21:35,024 She knows the stakes. 442 00:21:35,024 --> 00:21:38,092 In 2020, a failed litigant came to her front door, 443 00:21:38,092 --> 00:21:43,025 shot her son Daniel dead and wounded her husband, Mark. 444 00:21:43,025 --> 00:21:46,005 It was not driven by politics, but she 445 00:21:46,005 --> 00:21:48,069 fears today's inflammatory rhetoric 446 00:21:48,069 --> 00:21:51,023 makes such horrors more likely. 447 00:21:51,023 --> 00:21:54,045 I'm more concerned right now than I 448 00:21:54,045 --> 00:21:57,097 was after my only child was murdered. 449 00:21:57,097 --> 00:21:58,093 Why? 450 00:21:58,093 --> 00:22:02,089 Because I think that the attacks against the judiciary 451 00:22:02,089 --> 00:22:06,021 are only getting worse. 452 00:22:06,021 --> 00:22:08,049 What I'm seeing now is far different than what 453 00:22:08,049 --> 00:22:10,025 I've seen in the past. 454 00:22:10,025 --> 00:22:14,037 This is coming from our national leader on down. 455 00:22:14,037 --> 00:22:17,033 BILL WHITAKER: Judge Salas told us vilifying judges 456 00:22:17,033 --> 00:22:20,011 is eroding trust in the courts. 457 00:22:20,011 --> 00:22:25,061 If you disagree with a ruling that we make, appeal us. 458 00:22:25,061 --> 00:22:30,037 If you disagree with a sentence we render, appeal us. 459 00:22:30,037 --> 00:22:33,051 The answer is not to dehumanize us. 460 00:22:33,051 --> 00:22:38,089 And that has been, I think, the active agenda as of late. 461 00:22:38,089 --> 00:22:40,093 I feel like sometimes our political leaders 462 00:22:40,093 --> 00:22:43,053 are playing Russian roulette with our lives. 463 00:22:43,053 --> 00:22:49,069 Do you think the rhetoric emboldens people? 464 00:22:49,069 --> 00:22:52,001 I do. 465 00:22:52,001 --> 00:22:54,017 I think it's dangerous. 466 00:22:54,017 --> 00:22:56,039 BILL WHITAKER: In a statement, the White House said, 467 00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:59,019 "As a survivor of two assassination attempts, 468 00:22:59,019 --> 00:23:02,085 no one understands the dangers of political violence more than 469 00:23:02,085 --> 00:23:04,021 President Trump." 470 00:23:04,021 --> 00:23:08,025 It went on to accuse the judiciary of "brazen defiance" 471 00:23:08,025 --> 00:23:10,041 with its "unlawful rulings." 472 00:23:10,041 --> 00:23:12,071 These activist judges-- 473 00:23:12,071 --> 00:23:14,091 BILL WHITAKER: Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche 474 00:23:14,091 --> 00:23:16,089 called it a war. 475 00:23:16,089 --> 00:23:19,089 We are routinely getting stays and getting reversals 476 00:23:19,089 --> 00:23:26,029 because of local judges just not following the law, full stop. 477 00:23:26,029 --> 00:23:29,043 And it's the same judges-- or not the same judges-- 478 00:23:29,043 --> 00:23:31,083 but there's a group of judges that are repeat players. 479 00:23:31,083 --> 00:23:34,079 And that's obviously not by happenstance. 480 00:23:34,079 --> 00:23:36,009 That's intentional. 481 00:23:36,009 --> 00:23:39,030 And it's a war, man. 482 00:23:39,030 --> 00:23:41,030 BILL WHITAKER: Todd Blanche declined our request 483 00:23:41,030 --> 00:23:42,034 for an interview. 484 00:23:42,034 --> 00:23:46,050 In a statement to us, he said some judges continue to issue 485 00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:49,080 "overbroad and even unreasoned injunctions," 486 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,074 but adding "threats and intimidation of federal 487 00:23:52,074 --> 00:23:55,010 officials is unlawful." 488 00:23:55,010 --> 00:23:57,098 Judge John Coughenour told us the Constitution 489 00:23:57,098 --> 00:24:00,002 is a judge's north star. 490 00:24:00,002 --> 00:24:04,070 So to someone who says that you are a political agent in trying 491 00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:09,074 to thwart the goals of the president, you would say? 492 00:24:09,074 --> 00:24:13,042 I would say you don't understand what we do. 493 00:24:13,042 --> 00:24:15,086 We apply the Constitution. 494 00:24:15,086 --> 00:24:18,040 For the last 250 years in this country, 495 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,082 it's been the judges that say this is either constitutional 496 00:24:22,082 --> 00:24:23,084 or it isn't. 497 00:24:23,084 --> 00:24:26,090 If nobody's going to make that decision and nobody's going 498 00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:32,010 to enforce the Constitution, it becomes like the Constitution 499 00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:33,000 of Russia. 500 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,058 BILL WHITAKER: The threats aren't just 501 00:24:34,058 --> 00:24:35,098 coming from the right. 502 00:24:35,098 --> 00:24:40,019 In 2020, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer warned that 503 00:24:40,019 --> 00:24:43,047 Supreme Court justices Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh 504 00:24:43,047 --> 00:24:46,095 would quote, "Pay the price for restricting abortion." 505 00:24:46,095 --> 00:24:48,087 He later apologized. 506 00:24:48,087 --> 00:24:52,027 In 2022, a would-be assassin was arrested 507 00:24:52,027 --> 00:24:55,055 for trying to kill Justice Kavanaugh at his home. 508 00:24:55,055 --> 00:24:58,047 But Judge Jones, a Republican appointee, 509 00:24:58,047 --> 00:25:02,091 told us the violent language of the right has no match. 510 00:25:02,091 --> 00:25:06,007 The national rhetoric from both sides 511 00:25:06,007 --> 00:25:09,059 has probably gotten worse over time. 512 00:25:09,059 --> 00:25:13,043 However, I would not concede that the Democratic Party 513 00:25:13,043 --> 00:25:17,071 or that Democratic officeholders have conducted themselves 514 00:25:17,071 --> 00:25:20,039 in any way that's similar to what this administration is 515 00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:22,085 doing with respect to the federal judiciary. 516 00:25:22,085 --> 00:25:24,075 There's simply no evidence of that. 517 00:25:24,075 --> 00:25:26,067 RON ZAYAS: And when you look at the database, 518 00:25:26,067 --> 00:25:29,063 it's the names and addresses of hundreds of elected officials 519 00:25:29,063 --> 00:25:31,011 and judges. 520 00:25:31,011 --> 00:25:32,083 BILL WHITAKER: Ron Zayas is the CEO 521 00:25:32,083 --> 00:25:36,051 of Ironwall, a company that scrubs judges' personal data 522 00:25:36,051 --> 00:25:37,053 from the web. 523 00:25:37,053 --> 00:25:40,006 So here's another threat that we have toward a judge. 524 00:25:40,006 --> 00:25:42,070 BILL WHITAKER: Zayas told us, in 14 years, 525 00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:46,038 he has never seen as many violent threats as today. 526 00:25:46,038 --> 00:25:49,064 If you broadcast that message to a million people, 527 00:25:49,064 --> 00:25:52,084 you just need one to act on it. 528 00:25:52,084 --> 00:25:55,044 And that's the terrifying part that judges 529 00:25:55,044 --> 00:25:57,036 are having to deal with today. 530 00:25:57,036 --> 00:26:00,007 BILL WHITAKER: Zayas also combs through the dark web-- 531 00:26:00,007 --> 00:26:01,024 Look at the gallows, my god. 532 00:26:01,024 --> 00:26:01,096 RON ZAYAS: Yes. 533 00:26:01,096 --> 00:26:03,034 BILL WHITAKER: --a criminal haven 534 00:26:03,034 --> 00:26:06,008 on the internet where anonymous threat actors try 535 00:26:06,008 --> 00:26:08,052 to cause real-world harm. 536 00:26:08,052 --> 00:26:12,086 These days, Zayas is worried about a new type of threat. 537 00:26:12,086 --> 00:26:15,080 The threat seems to be, you ruled against me, 538 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,028 and I want to kill you. 539 00:26:17,028 --> 00:26:18,094 Now, the kind of threats we're seeing, 540 00:26:18,094 --> 00:26:21,020 there's a whole other sphere of saying, 541 00:26:21,020 --> 00:26:22,086 I want to influence what you do. 542 00:26:22,086 --> 00:26:24,034 It's mob mentality. 543 00:26:24,034 --> 00:26:25,088 They want to threaten you so that you 544 00:26:25,088 --> 00:26:27,018 make the right decision. 545 00:26:27,018 --> 00:26:28,068 BILL WHITAKER: The Marshals are also 546 00:26:28,068 --> 00:26:32,076 investigating a striking new form of intimidation-- 547 00:26:32,076 --> 00:26:35,060 hundreds of unsolicited pizzas sent 548 00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:38,088 to judges and their children across the country, 549 00:26:38,088 --> 00:26:42,064 an innocuous delivery with an ominous message. 550 00:26:42,064 --> 00:26:44,036 We know where you live. 551 00:26:44,036 --> 00:26:46,052 We know where your children live. 552 00:26:46,052 --> 00:26:50,060 And do you want to end up like Judge Salas' son? 553 00:26:50,060 --> 00:26:52,044 BILL WHITAKER: At least 20 were sent 554 00:26:52,044 --> 00:26:56,044 to homes in the name of Judge Salas' late son. 555 00:26:56,044 --> 00:27:00,048 The order form had my murdered son's name on it. 556 00:27:00,048 --> 00:27:05,028 They're weaponizing my baby boy. 557 00:27:05,028 --> 00:27:11,028 They're weaponizing Daniel's name to inflict fear on judges. 558 00:27:11,028 --> 00:27:14,080 I know that's shocking, but it must be so, so painful. 559 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,061 Oh! 560 00:27:16,061 --> 00:27:18,096 You know, that one took me. 561 00:27:18,096 --> 00:27:23,044 And you add to that, for flavor, that I have yet 562 00:27:23,044 --> 00:27:27,036 to see the attorney general or the deputy attorney general 563 00:27:27,036 --> 00:27:33,068 stand at a podium and denounce these forms of intimidation. 564 00:27:33,068 --> 00:27:36,085 BILL WHITAKER: Attorney General Pam Bondi also 565 00:27:36,085 --> 00:27:39,085 declined our request for an interview. 566 00:27:39,085 --> 00:27:44,037 Judge Salas, among many others, told us the rule of law 567 00:27:44,037 --> 00:27:46,005 is at stake. 568 00:27:46,005 --> 00:27:48,069 I sit here as Daniel's mom. 569 00:27:48,069 --> 00:27:54,037 I sit here as a woman who lost her only child. 570 00:27:54,037 --> 00:27:59,065 Mark and I have been to hell and back. 571 00:27:59,065 --> 00:28:04,077 And when I see that kind of irresponsible behavior coming 572 00:28:04,077 --> 00:28:12,049 from our political leaders and people in power, it makes me sad 573 00:28:12,049 --> 00:28:15,077 and it makes me very worried. 574 00:28:15,077 --> 00:28:20,022 Because I worry for our democracy, I really do. 575 00:28:20,022 --> 00:28:23,061 [TICKING] 576 00:28:26,004 --> 00:28:28,095 [TICKING] 577 00:28:30,089 --> 00:28:35,013 Since the 1999 Columbine High School massacre in Colorado, 578 00:28:35,013 --> 00:28:37,082 there have been 84 mass shootings at schools 579 00:28:37,082 --> 00:28:39,090 across the United States. 580 00:28:39,090 --> 00:28:42,070 Each tragedy is uniquely horrific, 581 00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:44,082 but the response from lawmakers has become 582 00:28:44,082 --> 00:28:46,078 frustratingly predictable-- 583 00:28:46,078 --> 00:28:51,030 condolences, partisan rhetoric, and ultimately, inaction, 584 00:28:51,030 --> 00:28:54,094 which is why we took note of how some prosecutors are pursuing 585 00:28:54,094 --> 00:28:56,018 these cases. 586 00:28:56,018 --> 00:28:58,076 They're not just putting the gunman behind bars. 587 00:28:58,076 --> 00:29:02,026 They're starting to hold the shooter's parents responsible. 588 00:29:02,026 --> 00:29:05,054 For the past two weeks, the father of an accused high school 589 00:29:05,054 --> 00:29:09,090 mass shooter has been on trial in Barrow County, Georgia. 590 00:29:09,090 --> 00:29:14,018 Prosecutors there argue that he ignored red flags about his son 591 00:29:14,018 --> 00:29:18,046 before the teen shot up Apalachee High in 2024, 592 00:29:18,046 --> 00:29:21,022 a tragedy that left four dead. 593 00:29:21,022 --> 00:29:24,090 It's not the first time the parent has been put on trial. 594 00:29:24,090 --> 00:29:27,074 Tonight, we'll look at the precedent-setting case out 595 00:29:27,074 --> 00:29:31,002 of Oxford, Michigan, and ask whether holding parents 596 00:29:31,002 --> 00:29:34,079 accountable is enough to break the cycle of school shooting 597 00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:35,099 violence. 598 00:29:35,099 --> 00:29:37,051 [SIREN WAILING] 599 00:29:37,051 --> 00:29:39,083 OFFICER (ON RADIO): We have an active shooter incident. 600 00:29:39,083 --> 00:29:42,047 SHARYN ALFONSI: Four years ago, on a cold November day, 601 00:29:42,047 --> 00:29:46,071 a gunman opened fire at Oxford High School, about 40 miles 602 00:29:46,071 --> 00:29:47,085 north of Detroit. 603 00:29:47,085 --> 00:29:49,093 PARENT (ON PHONE): My son is texting me and saying 604 00:29:49,093 --> 00:29:50,069 they're shooting at him. 605 00:29:50,069 --> 00:29:51,071 911 OPERATOR (ON PHONE): OK, ma'am, I'm gonna let you go. 606 00:29:51,071 --> 00:29:54,067 SHARYN ALFONSI: A 15-year-old student walked the halls armed 607 00:29:54,067 --> 00:29:58,095 with a 9-millimeter handgun, killing four schoolmates, 608 00:29:58,095 --> 00:30:01,065 among them, 16-year-old Tate Myre, 609 00:30:01,065 --> 00:30:06,007 a star athlete and student mentor, and 14-year-old Hana St. 610 00:30:06,007 --> 00:30:09,087 Juliana, just three months into her freshman year. 611 00:30:09,087 --> 00:30:11,061 Hana was a bright light. 612 00:30:11,061 --> 00:30:13,035 Making people laugh is, I think, what 613 00:30:13,035 --> 00:30:16,079 most people remember about her, her smile and her laugh. 614 00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:21,003 BUCK MYRE: Tate had a crazy, crazy, awesome zest for life. 615 00:30:21,003 --> 00:30:23,007 He was an incredible soul. 616 00:30:23,007 --> 00:30:24,047 This hit the community hard. 617 00:30:24,047 --> 00:30:26,043 SHARYN ALFONSI: Buck Myre and Steve St. Juliana 618 00:30:26,043 --> 00:30:28,051 now find themselves on a growing list 619 00:30:28,051 --> 00:30:32,087 of families whose children have been killed in school shootings. 620 00:30:32,087 --> 00:30:35,087 How are we doing, as a country, moving towards this 621 00:30:35,087 --> 00:30:37,011 not happening again? 622 00:30:37,011 --> 00:30:39,025 We're not moving in that direction. 623 00:30:39,025 --> 00:30:41,045 Yeah, we're going backwards at the moment. 624 00:30:41,045 --> 00:30:41,095 Yep. 625 00:30:41,095 --> 00:30:43,031 Why do you say that? 626 00:30:43,031 --> 00:30:47,001 Changes that have been made at a legislative level-- 627 00:30:47,001 --> 00:30:52,031 trying to add more mental health support, more gun control-- 628 00:30:52,031 --> 00:30:54,037 it's all being reversed. 629 00:30:54,037 --> 00:30:58,082 We don't seem to be wanting to learn from them, you know? 630 00:30:58,082 --> 00:31:01,013 I feel like we need to get in prevention. 631 00:31:01,013 --> 00:31:02,004 STUDENT 1: Go! 632 00:31:02,004 --> 00:31:02,087 STUDENT 2: [CRIES] 633 00:31:02,087 --> 00:31:05,035 SHARYN ALFONSI: Prevention might have protected Oxford High 634 00:31:05,035 --> 00:31:07,001 students from this moment. 635 00:31:07,001 --> 00:31:08,039 STUDENT 3: Go. 636 00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:10,083 SHARYN ALFONSI: There were red flags for months. 637 00:31:10,083 --> 00:31:13,073 Prosecutors say the gunman, Ethan Crumbley, 638 00:31:13,073 --> 00:31:16,055 had texted his mother on multiple occasions 639 00:31:16,055 --> 00:31:19,051 that he saw demons in the family home. 640 00:31:19,051 --> 00:31:21,031 Three months before the shooting, 641 00:31:21,031 --> 00:31:23,075 he assured a friend he was just kidding 642 00:31:23,075 --> 00:31:27,043 after he texted that it's time to shoot up the school. 643 00:31:27,043 --> 00:31:32,080 And 24 hours before the attack, his troubling conduct escalated. 644 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,058 According to prosecutors and court testimony, 645 00:31:35,058 --> 00:31:36,088 here's what happened. 646 00:31:36,088 --> 00:31:39,048 A teacher emailed administrators that she 647 00:31:39,048 --> 00:31:41,084 saw the sophomore looking at different bullets 648 00:31:41,084 --> 00:31:43,092 online in class. 649 00:31:43,092 --> 00:31:47,038 A school administrator left a voicemail for the boy's mother. 650 00:31:47,038 --> 00:31:51,004 She didn't respond, but later texted her son, "LOL, 651 00:31:51,004 --> 00:31:52,026 I'm not mad. 652 00:31:52,026 --> 00:31:55,012 You have to learn not to get caught." 653 00:31:55,012 --> 00:31:58,010 The next morning, just hours before the shooting, 654 00:31:58,010 --> 00:32:00,056 another teacher alerted administrators 655 00:32:00,056 --> 00:32:02,096 that the teen's math worksheet had drawings 656 00:32:02,096 --> 00:32:07,054 of a gun, a bullet, and a person bleeding, along with the words, 657 00:32:07,054 --> 00:32:09,014 "The thoughts won't stop. 658 00:32:09,014 --> 00:32:09,088 Help me. 659 00:32:09,088 --> 00:32:11,056 Blood everywhere." 660 00:32:11,056 --> 00:32:13,084 He was taken to a guidance counselor's office 661 00:32:13,084 --> 00:32:16,004 and his parents were called in. 662 00:32:16,004 --> 00:32:19,016 The counselor testified that he recommended therapy 663 00:32:19,016 --> 00:32:22,018 and suggested the Crumbleys take their son home, 664 00:32:22,018 --> 00:32:24,044 but they refused, citing work. 665 00:32:24,044 --> 00:32:27,040 The meeting lasted just 12 minutes. 666 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,056 They left and he went back to class. 667 00:32:30,056 --> 00:32:33,009 His backpack was never checked. 668 00:32:33,009 --> 00:32:36,089 Two hours later, surveillance video shows the 15-year-old 669 00:32:36,089 --> 00:32:40,057 walked into the bathroom, pulled a gun out of that backpack, 670 00:32:40,057 --> 00:32:43,077 entered the hallway, and started shooting. 671 00:32:43,077 --> 00:32:46,065 Police found his journal on the bathroom floor, 672 00:32:46,065 --> 00:32:51,021 detailing his desire and plan to shoot up his classmates. 673 00:32:51,021 --> 00:32:54,053 Later, investigators learned that just three days before 674 00:32:54,053 --> 00:32:58,009 the attack, his mother had taken him to a shooting range with 675 00:32:58,009 --> 00:33:02,057 that 9-millimeter handgun, which his father had purchased for him 676 00:33:02,057 --> 00:33:05,001 as an early Christmas present. 677 00:33:05,001 --> 00:33:07,045 Do you think his parents failed him? 678 00:33:07,045 --> 00:33:12,037 Yes, I think there was plenty of red flags 679 00:33:12,037 --> 00:33:17,069 there for them to be aware that he was in crisis. 680 00:33:17,069 --> 00:33:22,037 And their answer to that was to go buy him a gun 681 00:33:22,037 --> 00:33:27,013 and take him shooting, which, there's 682 00:33:27,013 --> 00:33:30,013 nothing wrong with that activity in and of itself. 683 00:33:30,013 --> 00:33:33,054 But when that's your answer to a child in crisis, 684 00:33:33,054 --> 00:33:34,094 that's a problem. 685 00:33:34,094 --> 00:33:36,030 I'll never forgive him. 686 00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:41,026 But this kid was asking for help at every level, 687 00:33:41,026 --> 00:33:43,082 and he didn't get it. 688 00:33:43,082 --> 00:33:46,071 And he did something horrible. 689 00:33:46,071 --> 00:33:48,058 JUDGE: Is it your own choice to plead guilty? 690 00:33:48,058 --> 00:33:49,042 Yes, sir. 691 00:33:49,042 --> 00:33:51,070 SHARYN ALFONSI: He pled guilty to all charges 692 00:33:51,070 --> 00:33:54,038 and was sentenced to life in prison. 693 00:33:54,038 --> 00:33:58,030 But prosecutors argued he wasn't the only one to blame. 694 00:33:58,030 --> 00:34:01,010 His parents were each convicted of four counts 695 00:34:01,010 --> 00:34:05,006 of involuntary manslaughter for failing to secure the gun 696 00:34:05,006 --> 00:34:08,022 and ignoring the warning signs of their son's mental health 697 00:34:08,022 --> 00:34:09,020 crisis. 698 00:34:09,020 --> 00:34:11,074 I believe that the following sentences would be in the best 699 00:34:11,074 --> 00:34:12,089 interest of justice-- 700 00:34:12,089 --> 00:34:15,022 SHARYN ALFONSI: They were sentenced to at least 10 years 701 00:34:15,022 --> 00:34:16,034 in prison. 702 00:34:16,034 --> 00:34:19,042 It is the first time that parents anywhere in the country 703 00:34:19,042 --> 00:34:22,070 have been held criminally responsible for a mass school 704 00:34:22,070 --> 00:34:25,070 shooting committed by their child. 705 00:34:25,070 --> 00:34:30,034 Our society refuses to take significant action 706 00:34:30,034 --> 00:34:32,038 to protect our children. 707 00:34:32,038 --> 00:34:37,002 So one of the only places that we can put this back onto 708 00:34:37,002 --> 00:34:38,038 are the parents. 709 00:34:38,038 --> 00:34:40,098 What's really unfortunate here is, 710 00:34:40,098 --> 00:34:44,006 when you want to think about this shooting 711 00:34:44,006 --> 00:34:47,026 and accountability, only the shooter 712 00:34:47,026 --> 00:34:49,008 and the parents have been held accountable. 713 00:34:49,008 --> 00:34:50,099 There's been no accountability at the school. 714 00:34:50,099 --> 00:34:52,086 Should the school bear some responsibility? 715 00:34:52,086 --> 00:34:53,070 Absolutely. 716 00:34:53,070 --> 00:34:56,014 I mean, they're in the business of kids. 717 00:34:56,014 --> 00:34:58,090 I mean, the kid was in a counseling office. 718 00:34:58,090 --> 00:35:00,048 He was obviously in crisis. 719 00:35:00,048 --> 00:35:02,098 He basically already had a gun in his hand. 720 00:35:02,098 --> 00:35:06,057 And the counseling office fumbled it. 721 00:35:06,057 --> 00:35:07,094 SHARYN ALFONSI: Victims' lawsuits 722 00:35:07,094 --> 00:35:11,056 against school officials and the district have been dismissed, 723 00:35:11,056 --> 00:35:14,028 citing Michigan's government immunity laws, 724 00:35:14,028 --> 00:35:17,010 which protect public entities and their employees 725 00:35:17,010 --> 00:35:18,074 from being sued. 726 00:35:18,074 --> 00:35:20,068 Immunity is driving inaction. 727 00:35:20,068 --> 00:35:21,018 Yeah. 728 00:35:21,018 --> 00:35:23,018 The law enforcement says, well, we 729 00:35:23,018 --> 00:35:26,062 don't want to waste our time doing the investigation 730 00:35:26,062 --> 00:35:28,078 because they've got immunity. 731 00:35:28,078 --> 00:35:30,057 Prosecutors are the same way. 732 00:35:30,057 --> 00:35:32,055 They don't want to prosecute or try 733 00:35:32,055 --> 00:35:34,003 to prosecute because, well, they're 734 00:35:34,003 --> 00:35:35,079 coming up against immunity. 735 00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:36,065 So why bother? 736 00:35:36,065 --> 00:35:37,033 STEVE ST. JULIANA: So why bother? 737 00:35:37,033 --> 00:35:38,050 And that's where we've gone. 738 00:35:38,050 --> 00:35:42,015 I mean, we've fought consistently just 739 00:35:42,015 --> 00:35:44,021 to have this investigation done. 740 00:35:44,021 --> 00:35:45,087 I imagine that there will be people 741 00:35:45,087 --> 00:35:48,091 who say the schools are already stretched thin. 742 00:35:48,091 --> 00:35:52,003 They don't have the ability to do much 743 00:35:52,003 --> 00:35:54,031 with a kid who's in trouble. 744 00:35:54,031 --> 00:35:56,099 We can't let them off the hook. 745 00:35:56,099 --> 00:35:59,031 This was preventable. 746 00:35:59,031 --> 00:36:01,027 SHARYN ALFONSI: There are no national standards 747 00:36:01,027 --> 00:36:04,051 after a school shooting, no federal mandates for state 748 00:36:04,051 --> 00:36:06,071 reviews or investigations. 749 00:36:06,071 --> 00:36:09,027 Typically, the FBI is only required 750 00:36:09,027 --> 00:36:12,015 to investigate if it's considered an act of terror 751 00:36:12,015 --> 00:36:14,079 or a hate crime. 752 00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,033 After months of pressure from the community, 753 00:36:17,033 --> 00:36:20,015 the Oxford School Board hired a private security 754 00:36:20,015 --> 00:36:24,095 firm called Guidepost to conduct an independent investigation. 755 00:36:24,095 --> 00:36:27,059 But that path was full of roadblocks. 756 00:36:27,059 --> 00:36:32,020 Guidepost doesn't have the legal authority to compel testimony. 757 00:36:32,020 --> 00:36:35,092 So of the 161 people they asked to interview, 758 00:36:35,092 --> 00:36:38,080 Guidepost reported that approximately 70 759 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:43,016 refused or would not respond, including two school employees 760 00:36:43,016 --> 00:36:46,076 who met with the shooter hours before the incident. 761 00:36:46,076 --> 00:36:49,020 The district told us that many staff members had 762 00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:51,084 given depositions in court proceedings, 763 00:36:51,084 --> 00:36:54,040 but according to Guidepost, those interviews 764 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,064 didn't fully address all of their questions. 765 00:36:57,064 --> 00:37:00,044 Guidepost concluded that teachers at Oxford High 766 00:37:00,044 --> 00:37:04,028 acted appropriately by immediately raising concerns. 767 00:37:04,028 --> 00:37:07,048 Guidepost investigators faulted the school for not following 768 00:37:07,048 --> 00:37:09,086 established "threat assessment" protocols, 769 00:37:09,086 --> 00:37:12,044 writing "this tragedy was avoidable." 770 00:37:12,044 --> 00:37:14,032 The Michigan Attorney General's Office 771 00:37:14,032 --> 00:37:17,004 says it is now investigating. 772 00:37:17,004 --> 00:37:18,050 When a mass shooting occurs-- 773 00:37:18,050 --> 00:37:20,060 SHARYN ALFONSI: James Densley and Jillian Peterson 774 00:37:20,060 --> 00:37:24,012 are professors of Criminology and founders of the Violence 775 00:37:24,012 --> 00:37:28,065 Prevention Project, a St. Paul, Minnesota-based nonprofit that 776 00:37:28,065 --> 00:37:30,033 studies mass shootings. 777 00:37:30,033 --> 00:37:33,073 You think about all the things that were learned after 9/11, 778 00:37:33,073 --> 00:37:36,089 and how that created an entire infrastructure and an apparatus 779 00:37:36,089 --> 00:37:39,065 around dealing with terrorism, we don't see that same type 780 00:37:39,065 --> 00:37:42,051 of urgency with the mass shooting problem. 781 00:37:42,051 --> 00:37:44,083 Instead, we get thoughts and prayers. 782 00:37:44,083 --> 00:37:47,065 We get a situation where we pit off imperfect solutions 783 00:37:47,065 --> 00:37:50,025 against each other because no one can agree on anything. 784 00:37:50,025 --> 00:37:52,013 And then that creates a situation 785 00:37:52,013 --> 00:37:53,081 where there's no action. 786 00:37:53,081 --> 00:37:57,073 So what is missing is that definitive action 787 00:37:57,073 --> 00:38:00,025 where we can create a template that everybody else then 788 00:38:00,025 --> 00:38:01,071 follows suit. 789 00:38:01,071 --> 00:38:03,023 One of the guys we interviewed-- 790 00:38:03,023 --> 00:38:04,073 SHARYN ALFONSI: Densley and Peterson 791 00:38:04,073 --> 00:38:07,013 have spent the last 10 years researching hundreds 792 00:38:07,013 --> 00:38:09,037 of mass shootings, interviewing those 793 00:38:09,037 --> 00:38:13,021 who knew the gunmen, and also the shooters themselves, 794 00:38:13,021 --> 00:38:16,049 hoping to better understand their pathways to violence 795 00:38:16,049 --> 00:38:18,011 and how to stop them. 796 00:38:18,011 --> 00:38:20,093 What's the pattern that emerged from the data? 797 00:38:20,093 --> 00:38:24,069 We saw an early childhood with a lot 798 00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:29,037 of pretty significant violence or neglect, domestic violence 799 00:38:29,037 --> 00:38:32,027 in the home, that laid the foundation. 800 00:38:32,027 --> 00:38:35,073 Did you ever say to any of these mass shooters, 801 00:38:35,073 --> 00:38:37,085 could somebody have stopped you? 802 00:38:37,085 --> 00:38:40,089 That was one of the questions I asked every time-- is there 803 00:38:40,089 --> 00:38:43,069 anyone or anything that could have stopped you? 804 00:38:43,069 --> 00:38:47,019 And every person we talked to said yes. 805 00:38:47,019 --> 00:38:49,069 One of them even said, I think anyone could have stopped me. 806 00:38:49,069 --> 00:38:50,071 [SIRENS WAILING] 807 00:38:50,071 --> 00:38:52,021 SHARYN ALFONSI: Their research shows 808 00:38:52,021 --> 00:38:57,013 that over 90% of all school mass shooters broadcast their plans 809 00:38:57,013 --> 00:38:57,066 online-- 810 00:38:57,066 --> 00:38:58,049 [STUDENTS SCREAMING] 811 00:38:58,049 --> 00:39:02,033 --or in person before they commit the atrocity. 812 00:39:02,033 --> 00:39:05,043 Investigators say the gunman in Parkland, Florida-- 813 00:39:05,043 --> 00:39:06,073 Shooter in the window! 814 00:39:06,073 --> 00:39:08,023 SHARYN ALFONSI: --Uvalde, Texas-- 815 00:39:08,023 --> 00:39:08,090 [SIRENS WAILING] 816 00:39:08,090 --> 00:39:11,081 --and Apalachee High in Winder, Georgia, 817 00:39:11,081 --> 00:39:16,009 all told people about their intent before the attacks. 818 00:39:16,009 --> 00:39:20,049 They're feeling hopeless and they feel isolated, 819 00:39:20,049 --> 00:39:22,063 and they're looking for that notoriety. 820 00:39:22,063 --> 00:39:26,015 They want to be seen, no matter how dysfunctionally. 821 00:39:26,015 --> 00:39:27,074 No matter how dysfunctionally. 822 00:39:27,074 --> 00:39:29,050 It's better than not being seen. 823 00:39:29,050 --> 00:39:34,046 Often you see, after a school shooting, more metal detectors, 824 00:39:34,046 --> 00:39:37,026 clear backpacks, and drills. 825 00:39:37,026 --> 00:39:41,050 If a school is given this kind of emergency resources 826 00:39:41,050 --> 00:39:45,018 to make their kids safer, is that the best use of them? 827 00:39:45,018 --> 00:39:47,020 It's not the best use of them. 828 00:39:47,020 --> 00:39:51,076 And all of that security ends up being kind of theatrical. 829 00:39:51,076 --> 00:39:53,094 It makes you feel better, maybe. 830 00:39:53,094 --> 00:39:55,072 But if a student is the perpetrator, 831 00:39:55,072 --> 00:39:57,042 it doesn't do anything. 832 00:39:57,042 --> 00:40:00,038 And so you're better off spending resources 833 00:40:00,038 --> 00:40:03,066 on things like teams that communicate 834 00:40:03,066 --> 00:40:06,090 with each other, school-based mental health, crisis 835 00:40:06,090 --> 00:40:09,040 intervention, suicide prevention. 836 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:10,076 And the data bears that out? 837 00:40:10,076 --> 00:40:13,016 The data over and over again bears that out. 838 00:40:13,016 --> 00:40:15,010 The best thing we can do to prevent violence 839 00:40:15,010 --> 00:40:18,088 is not to push kids out, it's to actually pull them in. 840 00:40:18,088 --> 00:40:19,092 They've probably been-- 841 00:40:19,092 --> 00:40:21,038 SHARYN ALFONSI: The researchers are 842 00:40:21,038 --> 00:40:23,066 part of a pilot program in Minnesota designed 843 00:40:23,066 --> 00:40:27,011 to teach school staff how to identify kids in crisis 844 00:40:27,011 --> 00:40:29,035 and wrap them up with services. 845 00:40:29,035 --> 00:40:31,078 In 2022, after Uvalde-- 846 00:40:31,078 --> 00:40:32,099 The motion to concur with-- 847 00:40:32,099 --> 00:40:35,012 SHARYN ALFONSI: --Congress passed a bipartisan bill 848 00:40:35,012 --> 00:40:38,023 that included $1 billion in grants for mental health 849 00:40:38,023 --> 00:40:40,051 services at schools. 850 00:40:40,051 --> 00:40:44,083 But last April, the majority of that funding was discontinued. 851 00:40:44,083 --> 00:40:46,063 The Department of Education explained 852 00:40:46,063 --> 00:40:50,047 the programs conflicted with the administration's priorities. 853 00:40:50,047 --> 00:40:53,087 In December, it awarded $208 million 854 00:40:53,087 --> 00:40:57,003 for credentialed school mental health providers, 855 00:40:57,003 --> 00:41:00,031 a fraction of the original funding. 856 00:41:00,031 --> 00:41:02,017 Something has to change. 857 00:41:02,017 --> 00:41:04,063 I mean, gun violence is the number-one killer 858 00:41:04,063 --> 00:41:06,091 of our children in America. 859 00:41:06,091 --> 00:41:11,023 And our society currently seems to have its head in the ground, 860 00:41:11,023 --> 00:41:15,025 refusing to acknowledge this, just saying, 861 00:41:15,025 --> 00:41:17,059 oh, it's the way it is. 862 00:41:17,059 --> 00:41:19,057 No, that's a ridiculous answer. 863 00:41:19,057 --> 00:41:22,083 This is not something that is insurmountable. 864 00:41:22,083 --> 00:41:27,072 We can make great strides to prevent this from happening 865 00:41:27,072 --> 00:41:30,068 again, we just aren't. 866 00:41:30,068 --> 00:41:34,001 [TICKING] 867 00:41:36,038 --> 00:41:38,028 [TICKING] 868 00:41:38,028 --> 00:41:40,084 ANNOUNCER: The last minute of 60 Minutes 869 00:41:40,084 --> 00:41:43,024 is sponsored by UnitedHealthcare. 870 00:41:43,024 --> 00:41:46,058 Coverage you can count on for your whole life ahead. 871 00:41:49,048 --> 00:41:53,006 Six poets have read at a US presidential inauguration, 872 00:41:53,006 --> 00:41:55,072 including Robert Frost and Maya Angelou. 873 00:41:55,072 --> 00:41:59,048 Amanda Gorman was 22 when she read her poem "The Hill We 874 00:41:59,048 --> 00:42:02,016 Climb" at Joe Biden's inauguration. 875 00:42:02,016 --> 00:42:05,046 As the nation celebrates 250 years of independence, 876 00:42:05,046 --> 00:42:09,060 we asked Gorman, what does it mean to be an American? 877 00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:12,094 When I think about what it means to be an American, 878 00:42:12,094 --> 00:42:16,094 I truly believe it's more than a pride we inherit. 879 00:42:16,094 --> 00:42:20,050 It's the past we step into and how we repair it, 880 00:42:20,050 --> 00:42:24,056 meaning that being an American is more than just remembering 881 00:42:24,056 --> 00:42:25,070 our history. 882 00:42:25,070 --> 00:42:26,078 It's how we heal it. 883 00:42:26,078 --> 00:42:28,002 It's how we recover. 884 00:42:28,002 --> 00:42:31,052 It's how we hold ourselves accountable to being 885 00:42:31,052 --> 00:42:33,032 the best that we can be. 886 00:42:33,032 --> 00:42:35,092 Part of my American story is being 887 00:42:35,092 --> 00:42:38,006 someone who's descended from slaves, 888 00:42:38,006 --> 00:42:42,000 and how that informs my own Americanhood is it teaches me 889 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,048 that freedom, equity, liberty are not just things 890 00:42:45,048 --> 00:42:46,086 we can take for granted. 891 00:42:46,086 --> 00:42:50,086 They must be fought for, protected, and cherished. 892 00:42:50,086 --> 00:42:55,000 And so my rights and my role and responsibility as an American 893 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,076 is both to love my own freedom, but to love and defend it 894 00:42:58,076 --> 00:43:00,050 for other people as well. 895 00:43:00,050 --> 00:43:04,008 It's to remember yesterday and always walk pridefully 896 00:43:04,008 --> 00:43:06,032 into tomorrow. 897 00:43:06,032 --> 00:43:07,054 I'm Jon Wertheim. 898 00:43:07,054 --> 00:43:10,070 We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes. 899 00:43:10,070 --> 00:43:12,020 [TICKING] 900 00:43:14,030 --> 00:43:17,065 [TICKING]