1 00:00:01,068 --> 00:00:03,060 JON WERTHEIM: Tonight, on this special edition 2 00:00:03,060 --> 00:00:07,044 of 60 Minutes presents the 60 Minutes book club. 3 00:00:07,044 --> 00:00:10,004 [MUSIC PLAYING] 4 00:00:10,004 --> 00:00:13,056 Here she is, taking a flamethrower to her own book. 5 00:00:13,056 --> 00:00:18,012 Margaret Atwood was firing back at would be book burners. 6 00:00:18,012 --> 00:00:20,008 Her books have been banned for content 7 00:00:20,008 --> 00:00:24,028 deemed overly sexual, morally corrupt, anti-Christian. 8 00:00:24,028 --> 00:00:27,066 The government put out an edict to all school boards, 9 00:00:27,066 --> 00:00:30,016 saying that they couldn't have any books in the library that 10 00:00:30,016 --> 00:00:33,056 had either direct or indirect sex. 11 00:00:33,056 --> 00:00:35,032 What is indirect sex? 12 00:00:35,032 --> 00:00:36,006 I don't know. 13 00:00:36,006 --> 00:00:37,090 [LAUGHS] 14 00:00:38,047 --> 00:00:40,030 ANDERSON COOPER: Did people try to kill you? 15 00:00:40,030 --> 00:00:41,002 Yes. 16 00:00:41,002 --> 00:00:42,048 JON WERTHEIM: Author Salman Rushdie 17 00:00:42,048 --> 00:00:45,048 has been a marked man for nearly half his life. 18 00:00:45,048 --> 00:00:50,028 And in 2022, a knife wielding attacker almost killed him. 19 00:00:50,028 --> 00:00:52,092 This is his first television interview. 20 00:00:52,092 --> 00:00:56,077 One of the surgeons who had saved my life said to me-- 21 00:00:56,077 --> 00:00:58,044 he said, first, you were really unlucky, 22 00:00:58,044 --> 00:01:00,049 and then you were really lucky. 23 00:01:00,049 --> 00:01:02,045 I said, what's the lucky part. 24 00:01:02,045 --> 00:01:03,097 And he said, well, the lucky part 25 00:01:03,097 --> 00:01:06,037 is that the man who attacked you had no idea how 26 00:01:06,037 --> 00:01:07,075 to kill a man with a knife. 27 00:01:10,015 --> 00:01:12,065 CECILIA VEGA: Whether it's this attempt at the biggest pizza 28 00:01:12,065 --> 00:01:16,001 party ever, or trying to eat an airplane, 29 00:01:16,001 --> 00:01:19,021 there's a method to the madness of getting into Guinness World 30 00:01:19,021 --> 00:01:20,069 Records. 31 00:01:20,069 --> 00:01:24,085 As many as 95% of submissions get rejected. 32 00:01:24,085 --> 00:01:27,049 We do validate people that do things 33 00:01:27,049 --> 00:01:30,057 that others might seem a bit weird, 34 00:01:30,057 --> 00:01:32,085 like eating aircraft and stuff. 35 00:01:32,085 --> 00:01:34,061 Do you not see that as weird? 36 00:01:34,061 --> 00:01:37,039 I see it as really interesting. 37 00:01:45,053 --> 00:01:46,023 Good evening. 38 00:01:46,023 --> 00:01:47,031 I'm Jon Wertheim. 39 00:01:47,031 --> 00:01:49,061 Welcome to the 60 Minutes Book Club. 40 00:01:49,061 --> 00:01:53,017 Tonight, we'll hear author Salman Rushdie discuss Knife, 41 00:01:53,017 --> 00:01:56,025 his book based on the near fatal attempt on his life 42 00:01:56,025 --> 00:01:59,014 at a literary event in 2022. 43 00:01:59,014 --> 00:02:02,046 Then we'll tell you about the book that has sold more than 150 44 00:02:02,046 --> 00:02:04,090 million copies worldwide. 45 00:02:04,090 --> 00:02:07,078 But we begin with a question of sorts. 46 00:02:07,078 --> 00:02:10,042 You're an 86-year-old titan of literature, 47 00:02:10,042 --> 00:02:12,054 have been for a half century now. 48 00:02:12,054 --> 00:02:14,068 You're Canada's best known author. 49 00:02:14,068 --> 00:02:16,066 64 books and counting. 50 00:02:16,066 --> 00:02:18,054 And increasingly, you find your work 51 00:02:18,054 --> 00:02:22,022 on lists of banned books, scrubbed from 135 52 00:02:22,022 --> 00:02:24,018 American school districts. 53 00:02:24,018 --> 00:02:26,094 Yes, that includes your breakthrough work, the dystopian 54 00:02:26,094 --> 00:02:28,078 novel, The Handmaid's Tale. 55 00:02:28,078 --> 00:02:31,050 But you've also been censored for work like The Testaments 56 00:02:31,050 --> 00:02:33,058 and The Blind Assassin, both of which 57 00:02:33,058 --> 00:02:36,062 won the Booker Prize, the top award for English language 58 00:02:36,062 --> 00:02:37,070 fiction. 59 00:02:37,070 --> 00:02:38,098 What to do? 60 00:02:38,098 --> 00:02:42,018 Sure, you take to the keyboard and write sternly worded opinion 61 00:02:42,018 --> 00:02:43,004 pieces. 62 00:02:43,004 --> 00:02:45,034 But as we first told you last fall, 63 00:02:45,034 --> 00:02:47,052 if you're the indomitable Margaret Atwood, 64 00:02:47,052 --> 00:02:48,096 you don't stop there. 65 00:02:52,046 --> 00:02:56,015 Here she is, taking a flamethrower to her own book. 66 00:02:56,015 --> 00:03:00,035 Atwood was firing back at would be book burners by torching 67 00:03:00,035 --> 00:03:02,027 an unburnable edition. 68 00:03:02,027 --> 00:03:04,063 It was all promotion for a charity auction 69 00:03:04,063 --> 00:03:08,019 to benefit PEN America, a nonprofit that champions free 70 00:03:08,019 --> 00:03:10,039 speech. 71 00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:12,059 Atwood's books have been banned for content 72 00:03:12,059 --> 00:03:16,055 deemed overly sexual, morally corrupt, anti-Christian. 73 00:03:16,055 --> 00:03:18,079 She told us she was particularly peeved 74 00:03:18,079 --> 00:03:21,069 when a recent ban came from Edmonton, Alberta, 75 00:03:21,069 --> 00:03:22,093 in her own country. 76 00:03:22,093 --> 00:03:26,025 The government put out an edict to all school boards, 77 00:03:26,025 --> 00:03:28,075 saying that they couldn't have any books in the library that 78 00:03:28,075 --> 00:03:32,023 had either direct or indirect sex. 79 00:03:32,023 --> 00:03:34,003 What is indirect sex? 80 00:03:34,003 --> 00:03:34,063 I don't know. 81 00:03:34,063 --> 00:03:38,083 [LAUGHS] You had any indirect sex lately? 82 00:03:38,083 --> 00:03:41,012 Second wave feminism here. 83 00:03:41,012 --> 00:03:42,087 JON WERTHEIM: Atwood speaks as she writes, 84 00:03:42,087 --> 00:03:45,067 with a mix of wisdom and deadpan wit. 85 00:03:45,067 --> 00:03:48,087 Last fall, she invited us into her Toronto home. 86 00:03:48,087 --> 00:03:51,015 Do you know offhand how many languages your books 87 00:03:51,015 --> 00:03:52,033 have been translated in? 88 00:03:52,033 --> 00:03:55,030 Well, we say over 50 for everything. 89 00:03:55,030 --> 00:03:56,022 How old are you? 90 00:03:56,022 --> 00:03:57,037 Over 50. 91 00:03:57,037 --> 00:03:58,070 How many books have you written? 92 00:03:58,070 --> 00:03:59,066 Over 50. 93 00:03:59,066 --> 00:04:01,004 How many awards have you won? 94 00:04:01,004 --> 00:04:01,078 Over 50. 95 00:04:01,078 --> 00:04:03,041 I thought so. 96 00:04:03,041 --> 00:04:04,040 [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 97 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,008 Under his eye. 98 00:04:06,008 --> 00:04:07,094 JON WERTHEIM: Published in 1985. 99 00:04:07,094 --> 00:04:11,008 The Handmaid's Tale depicts a near-future America 100 00:04:11,008 --> 00:04:13,080 overtaken by religious dictatorship, where 101 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,076 a dwindling number of fertile women 102 00:04:15,076 --> 00:04:18,060 are forced to cloak themselves in red and bear 103 00:04:18,060 --> 00:04:20,030 children for the elite. 104 00:04:20,030 --> 00:04:22,040 Give me children. 105 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:23,054 Or else I die. 106 00:04:23,054 --> 00:04:26,008 JON WERTHEIM: The book would sell more than 10 million copies 107 00:04:26,008 --> 00:04:28,074 and spawn an Emmy winning Hulu series. 108 00:04:28,074 --> 00:04:31,024 Beyond that, its scarlet costume would 109 00:04:31,024 --> 00:04:35,016 become a uniform of real life protest and resistance. 110 00:04:35,016 --> 00:04:36,064 ALL: Shame, shame! 111 00:04:36,064 --> 00:04:39,038 JON WERTHEIM: Handmaid's Tale is your magnum opus. 112 00:04:39,038 --> 00:04:39,096 You think? 113 00:04:39,096 --> 00:04:40,098 Your Great Gatsby. 114 00:04:40,098 --> 00:04:42,024 How are you with that? 115 00:04:42,024 --> 00:04:45,086 Well, I would question the premise. 116 00:04:45,086 --> 00:04:47,004 You would? 117 00:04:47,004 --> 00:04:47,088 Yeah. 118 00:04:47,088 --> 00:04:51,014 It's not due to me or the excellence of the book. 119 00:04:51,014 --> 00:04:54,069 It's partly the twists and turns of history. 120 00:04:54,069 --> 00:04:57,063 JON WERTHEIM: With the ongoing rollback of reproductive rights, 121 00:04:57,063 --> 00:05:01,025 and the eventual overturning of Roe v Wade in 2022, 122 00:05:01,025 --> 00:05:03,089 The Handmaid's Tale began, for many readers, 123 00:05:03,089 --> 00:05:06,017 to feel eerily prescient. 124 00:05:06,017 --> 00:05:10,059 Had it been so that none of this ever got enacted, 125 00:05:10,059 --> 00:05:13,005 then it would probably be sitting on a shelf somewhere 126 00:05:13,005 --> 00:05:15,043 and people would be saying, oh, jolly good yarn, 127 00:05:15,043 --> 00:05:16,089 but it didn't happen. 128 00:05:16,089 --> 00:05:18,021 JON WERTHEIM: Or didn't it? 129 00:05:18,021 --> 00:05:21,015 In 2003, Oryx and Crake, for instance, 130 00:05:21,015 --> 00:05:25,009 Atwood wrote of environmental collapse and a global pandemic. 131 00:05:25,009 --> 00:05:27,037 Pick a catastrophe, any catastrophe. 132 00:05:27,037 --> 00:05:29,051 Before the real world did its thing, 133 00:05:29,051 --> 00:05:32,009 she warned about it in her fiction. 134 00:05:32,009 --> 00:05:36,069 It wasn't this is going to happen without a doubt. 135 00:05:36,069 --> 00:05:38,057 This could happen. 136 00:05:38,057 --> 00:05:39,067 This might happen. 137 00:05:39,067 --> 00:05:42,005 So you should be on the watch for it. 138 00:05:42,005 --> 00:05:44,025 What is your relationship with this idea 139 00:05:44,025 --> 00:05:47,049 that you're the prophet of doom, this Cassandra, 140 00:05:47,049 --> 00:05:49,095 the forecaster of dystopia? 141 00:05:49,095 --> 00:05:52,058 I think I'm very positive I didn't kill everybody off 142 00:05:52,058 --> 00:05:53,054 at the end. 143 00:05:53,054 --> 00:05:55,078 Some people do. 144 00:05:55,078 --> 00:05:57,000 These are rare books. 145 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,010 A lot of them are pretty obscure. 146 00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:01,056 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): If Atwood can see around corners, 147 00:06:01,056 --> 00:06:04,066 it's because her visions have historical precedent. 148 00:06:04,066 --> 00:06:07,010 They come rooted in actual events. 149 00:06:07,010 --> 00:06:10,016 At the Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library in Toronto, 150 00:06:10,016 --> 00:06:13,026 Atwood has archived stacks of her research. 151 00:06:13,026 --> 00:06:15,026 That is, the hundreds of news clippings 152 00:06:15,026 --> 00:06:17,046 that substantiate her plots. 153 00:06:17,046 --> 00:06:22,062 So this is folder upon folder of your research 154 00:06:22,062 --> 00:06:23,076 for Handmaid's Tale. 155 00:06:23,076 --> 00:06:24,077 Oh, yeah, lots of it. 156 00:06:24,077 --> 00:06:27,006 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): She writes by a strict rule-- 157 00:06:27,006 --> 00:06:29,076 if it didn't happen somewhere at some time, 158 00:06:29,076 --> 00:06:32,040 it doesn't make it into the pages of her fiction. 159 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,094 Women forced to have babies. 160 00:06:34,094 --> 00:06:37,066 Communists are making women have babies. 161 00:06:37,066 --> 00:06:40,026 Persistent non-pregnancy will be considered 162 00:06:40,026 --> 00:06:42,035 a crime against the state. 163 00:06:42,035 --> 00:06:44,060 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): It's not all doom and gloom. 164 00:06:44,060 --> 00:06:46,062 Atwood showed us the cover she designed 165 00:06:46,062 --> 00:06:48,084 for her first volume of poetry. 166 00:06:48,084 --> 00:06:53,039 She also writes short stories and children's books. 167 00:06:53,039 --> 00:06:57,025 For her new book, a new genre, her memoir, Book of Lives, 168 00:06:57,025 --> 00:07:00,069 published last November, takes the full sweep of her life, 169 00:07:00,069 --> 00:07:02,067 starting with a free range childhood 170 00:07:02,067 --> 00:07:05,007 spent in the deep wilderness of Quebec. 171 00:07:05,007 --> 00:07:07,047 She was homeschooled until the age of 12, 172 00:07:07,047 --> 00:07:11,067 while her father did fieldwork on insects as an entomologist. 173 00:07:11,067 --> 00:07:14,051 You wrote, some families stop for ice-cream 174 00:07:14,051 --> 00:07:15,073 on the side of the road. 175 00:07:15,073 --> 00:07:17,009 You stopped for infestation. 176 00:07:17,009 --> 00:07:19,001 We stopped for infestation. 177 00:07:19,001 --> 00:07:20,047 So what was that like? 178 00:07:20,047 --> 00:07:23,055 You screeched to a halt. Father would get out 179 00:07:23,055 --> 00:07:26,081 of the car with his tarpaulin and his ax. 180 00:07:26,081 --> 00:07:29,047 And he would go to the infestation. 181 00:07:29,047 --> 00:07:31,059 He would spread the tarp out under the tree 182 00:07:31,059 --> 00:07:33,037 and hit the trunk with an ax. 183 00:07:33,037 --> 00:07:35,075 And then the things would fall out. 184 00:07:35,075 --> 00:07:37,017 And he would collect them. 185 00:07:37,017 --> 00:07:39,021 And you're in the backseat thinking what? 186 00:07:39,021 --> 00:07:39,073 Oh, no. 187 00:07:39,073 --> 00:07:42,045 We were usually out of the car, watching him do it. 188 00:07:42,045 --> 00:07:45,043 JON WERTHEIM: What did you learn watching him go to work? 189 00:07:45,043 --> 00:07:48,003 Well, I think probably growing up with a biologist 190 00:07:48,003 --> 00:07:51,028 makes you quite particular about details, 191 00:07:51,028 --> 00:07:53,090 because you're not saying that's a butterfly. 192 00:07:53,090 --> 00:07:55,086 You're saying, what kind of butterfly. 193 00:07:55,086 --> 00:07:58,006 You're not saying that's a tree. 194 00:07:58,006 --> 00:08:00,068 You usually know what kind of tree. 195 00:08:00,068 --> 00:08:02,092 That's what draws people to reading. 196 00:08:02,092 --> 00:08:05,056 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): Intent on spinning details into prose 197 00:08:05,056 --> 00:08:08,084 and becoming a writer, Atwood enrolled at Victoria college 198 00:08:08,084 --> 00:08:10,068 at the University of Toronto. 199 00:08:10,068 --> 00:08:15,020 Well, poetry was the big form in Canada in the '60s. 200 00:08:15,020 --> 00:08:17,076 JON WERTHEIM: A young poet, she hit the reading circuit 201 00:08:17,076 --> 00:08:21,050 and performed in student plays and revues here at Hart House, 202 00:08:21,050 --> 00:08:23,009 one of Canada's oldest theaters. 203 00:08:23,009 --> 00:08:23,084 Here in front of-- 204 00:08:23,084 --> 00:08:25,084 I'm just a show off. 205 00:08:25,084 --> 00:08:27,026 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): And when 206 00:08:27,026 --> 00:08:30,016 Margaret Atwood wants to show off, you surrender the stage. 207 00:08:30,016 --> 00:08:31,078 You have to stand over there. 208 00:08:31,078 --> 00:08:33,016 Hold my purse. 209 00:08:33,016 --> 00:08:34,000 Ready? 210 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,021 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): Here's not just any curtsy, 211 00:08:36,021 --> 00:08:40,020 but she informed us the 17th century Jacobian court curtsy 212 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:42,048 she learned for a college production. 213 00:08:42,048 --> 00:08:45,004 We told you she's a stickler for detail. 214 00:08:45,004 --> 00:08:47,002 How do I respond to that? 215 00:08:47,002 --> 00:08:48,037 You bow. 216 00:08:48,037 --> 00:08:49,025 Thank you. 217 00:08:49,025 --> 00:08:50,047 You remember that? 218 00:08:50,047 --> 00:08:53,025 Why are you so surprised that I remember things? 219 00:08:53,025 --> 00:08:55,046 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): Before we left the theater, 220 00:08:55,046 --> 00:08:57,037 Attwood showed us another party trick. 221 00:08:57,037 --> 00:08:59,029 I'm not getting vibes. 222 00:08:59,029 --> 00:09:01,009 You're not getting vibes from me? 223 00:09:01,009 --> 00:09:01,091 No. 224 00:09:01,091 --> 00:09:05,043 We're doing the classic Renaissance hand reading. 225 00:09:05,043 --> 00:09:06,085 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): Yes, she 226 00:09:06,085 --> 00:09:10,015 reads palms, another mode for investigation. 227 00:09:10,015 --> 00:09:14,061 People might think that you're just a very reasonable sort 228 00:09:14,061 --> 00:09:15,099 of rational person. 229 00:09:15,099 --> 00:09:18,061 But in fact, you have this other-- 230 00:09:18,061 --> 00:09:19,017 Oh, dear. 231 00:09:19,017 --> 00:09:20,095 --this intuition. 232 00:09:20,095 --> 00:09:22,021 So some people stop there. 233 00:09:22,021 --> 00:09:24,039 And they're very logical and that's it. 234 00:09:24,039 --> 00:09:26,005 You are not one of those people. 235 00:09:26,005 --> 00:09:28,037 And we can see that you will never 236 00:09:28,037 --> 00:09:31,059 be a murderous dictator, for which we are pleased. 237 00:09:31,059 --> 00:09:32,087 I got that going for me. 238 00:09:32,087 --> 00:09:34,047 [LAUGHS] 239 00:09:34,047 --> 00:09:36,055 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): Back to our protagonist. 240 00:09:36,055 --> 00:09:40,005 When she graduated in 1961, Canadian writers 241 00:09:40,005 --> 00:09:43,089 were encouraged to pursue careers outside the country. 242 00:09:43,089 --> 00:09:46,050 Give us a sense of the Canadian lit scene 243 00:09:46,050 --> 00:09:47,072 when you were in college. 244 00:09:47,072 --> 00:09:49,096 What Canadian lit scene? 245 00:09:49,096 --> 00:09:53,090 [LAUGHS] Still, Atwood stayed and helped 246 00:09:53,090 --> 00:09:57,030 found the country's now thriving literary institutions. 247 00:09:57,030 --> 00:10:00,080 Along the way, she met another writer, the late Graham Gibson, 248 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,074 who would become her longtime partner. 249 00:10:03,074 --> 00:10:06,030 So quintessentially Canadian, their courtship 250 00:10:06,030 --> 00:10:09,022 peaked with a canoe trip. 251 00:10:09,022 --> 00:10:10,094 We were both the kinds of people 252 00:10:10,094 --> 00:10:13,086 that if the canoe trip hadn't worked out, 253 00:10:13,086 --> 00:10:15,042 that would have been it. 254 00:10:15,042 --> 00:10:16,092 Good barometer for a relationship. 255 00:10:16,092 --> 00:10:17,084 MARGARET ATWOOD: Yeah. 256 00:10:17,084 --> 00:10:19,036 If you can deal with the canoe trip, 257 00:10:19,036 --> 00:10:23,024 you can probably deal with lots of other things, too. 258 00:10:23,024 --> 00:10:24,036 JON WERTHEIM: And they did. 259 00:10:24,036 --> 00:10:27,040 Gibson came to the relationship with some baggage. 260 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,046 A, quote, undivorced wife and two kids. 261 00:10:30,046 --> 00:10:33,050 In her memoir, Atwood confronts the complications 262 00:10:33,050 --> 00:10:35,028 of the blended family. 263 00:10:35,028 --> 00:10:37,043 Could I ask you to read a bit for us? 264 00:10:37,043 --> 00:10:38,030 MARGARET ATWOOD: Yes. 265 00:10:38,030 --> 00:10:41,030 There are several letters in this book for me 266 00:10:41,030 --> 00:10:43,036 to my inner advice columnist. 267 00:10:43,036 --> 00:10:45,043 Everybody has one. 268 00:10:45,043 --> 00:10:48,093 "Dear inner advice columnist, sorry to bother you." 269 00:10:48,093 --> 00:10:51,035 JON WERTHEIM (VOICEOVER): Atwood uses the columnist device 270 00:10:51,035 --> 00:10:53,027 to confess that though she and Graham have 271 00:10:53,027 --> 00:10:55,072 a daughter of their own, she wants more children. 272 00:10:55,072 --> 00:10:58,009 MARGARET ATWOOD: "We are back at the farm after Scotland. 273 00:10:58,009 --> 00:11:01,047 And I have brought up the subject of a second child. 274 00:11:01,047 --> 00:11:02,049 I would like one. 275 00:11:02,049 --> 00:11:06,003 But Graham has said that a total of 3 is enough for him. 276 00:11:06,003 --> 00:11:10,019 I feel deprived, resentful, and disrespected." 277 00:11:10,019 --> 00:11:11,065 JON WERTHEIM: If that sounds harsh, 278 00:11:11,065 --> 00:11:13,097 listen to the columnist's response, 279 00:11:13,097 --> 00:11:15,059 the advice she gave herself. 280 00:11:15,059 --> 00:11:18,083 "Oh, for heaven's sakes, count your blessings. 281 00:11:18,083 --> 00:11:21,047 Some people don't know when they're well off. 282 00:11:21,047 --> 00:11:23,039 Many would give the shirt off their back 283 00:11:23,039 --> 00:11:25,019 to have your luck in men. 284 00:11:25,019 --> 00:11:26,015 Suck it up. 285 00:11:26,015 --> 00:11:27,077 Cherish your child. 286 00:11:27,077 --> 00:11:29,051 Get another cat. 287 00:11:29,051 --> 00:11:33,047 Your inner advice columnist." 288 00:11:33,047 --> 00:11:35,075 You can see she's rather severe. 289 00:11:35,075 --> 00:11:38,019 That's very get over yourself advice you gave yourself. 290 00:11:38,019 --> 00:11:40,045 Very get over yourself advice. 291 00:11:40,045 --> 00:11:43,052 But Canadians are pretty get over yourself people. 292 00:11:43,052 --> 00:11:45,072 The Handmaid's Tale! 293 00:11:45,072 --> 00:11:49,024 JON WERTHEIM: Humility aside, Canada's leading literary figure 294 00:11:49,024 --> 00:11:51,040 has become something of a cult figure 295 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,004 and a leading voice on all things Canadian. 296 00:11:54,004 --> 00:11:56,088 We asked her about the recent chill between her country 297 00:11:56,088 --> 00:12:00,000 and the United States as President Trump raises tariffs 298 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,016 and threatens to turn our Northern neighbors into a 51st 299 00:12:03,016 --> 00:12:04,004 state. 300 00:12:04,004 --> 00:12:06,028 Atwood says the Canadian response is 301 00:12:06,028 --> 00:12:08,020 best summed up by one phrase. 302 00:12:08,020 --> 00:12:09,074 MARGARET ATWOOD: It's a hockey thing. 303 00:12:09,074 --> 00:12:12,040 And it was this character called Gordie Howe, who 304 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,048 was very revered hockey player. 305 00:12:15,048 --> 00:12:18,048 And elbows up is when somebody gets you into the corner, 306 00:12:18,048 --> 00:12:21,088 and you block them by putting your elbow up. 307 00:12:21,088 --> 00:12:24,068 And it means, don't mess with me. 308 00:12:24,068 --> 00:12:27,050 And for those who speak of the 51st state, 309 00:12:27,050 --> 00:12:30,066 I do point out that it wouldn't be just one state. 310 00:12:30,066 --> 00:12:31,064 What do you mean? 311 00:12:31,064 --> 00:12:32,093 MARGARET ATWOOD: It's very big. 312 00:12:32,093 --> 00:12:35,004 You can't make the whole thing just one state. 313 00:12:35,004 --> 00:12:37,085 And anyway, Quebec would never stand for it. 314 00:12:37,085 --> 00:12:39,052 You think you're going to make them part 315 00:12:39,052 --> 00:12:41,081 of a unilingual big entity? 316 00:12:41,081 --> 00:12:43,045 Think again. 317 00:12:43,045 --> 00:12:45,081 JON WERTHEIM: Atwood is a student of government power 318 00:12:45,081 --> 00:12:47,065 and the overreaches of both. 319 00:12:47,065 --> 00:12:49,045 She wrote much of The Handmaid's Tale 320 00:12:49,045 --> 00:12:52,089 on a rented typewriter in 1984 West Berlin. 321 00:12:52,089 --> 00:12:56,057 She recalls hearing sonic booms from the other side of the wall. 322 00:12:56,057 --> 00:12:58,055 In her ventures to the Eastern Bloc, 323 00:12:58,055 --> 00:13:00,073 she witnessed policing, paranoia, 324 00:13:00,073 --> 00:13:02,057 and the absence of freedom. 325 00:13:02,057 --> 00:13:04,049 In her memoir, too, she addresses 326 00:13:04,049 --> 00:13:06,031 the erosion of democracy. 327 00:13:06,031 --> 00:13:08,041 You say the overriding ordinary civil liberties 328 00:13:08,041 --> 00:13:11,081 is one of the signposts on the road to dictatorship. 329 00:13:11,081 --> 00:13:13,087 Do you see the US on that road right now? 330 00:13:13,087 --> 00:13:18,017 I don't think I would be wrong if I said, it's concerning. 331 00:13:18,017 --> 00:13:22,001 There are certain things that totalitarian coups always do. 332 00:13:22,001 --> 00:13:22,081 Like what? 333 00:13:22,081 --> 00:13:24,039 MARGARET ATWOOD: One of them is trying 334 00:13:24,039 --> 00:13:26,021 to get control of the media. 335 00:13:26,021 --> 00:13:30,033 But the other thing is making the judicial arm 336 00:13:30,033 --> 00:13:33,001 part of the executive. 337 00:13:33,001 --> 00:13:35,025 In other words, judges just do what 338 00:13:35,025 --> 00:13:37,057 the chief guide tells them to. 339 00:13:37,057 --> 00:13:40,014 If you're saying the signposts, the signifiers 340 00:13:40,014 --> 00:13:42,050 of totalitarian society are-- 341 00:13:42,050 --> 00:13:46,046 There are some warning lights flashing for sure. 342 00:13:46,046 --> 00:13:48,004 JON WERTHEIM: Amid the warning lights, 343 00:13:48,004 --> 00:13:50,054 a series based on The Testaments, her sequel 344 00:13:50,054 --> 00:13:53,050 to The Handmaid's Tale, will begin streaming on Hulu 345 00:13:53,050 --> 00:13:54,046 this year. 346 00:13:54,046 --> 00:13:56,046 But just when you think you can predict 347 00:13:56,046 --> 00:13:59,072 on which side of the political divide Atwood falls, 348 00:13:59,072 --> 00:14:02,024 she confounds by saying something like this. 349 00:14:02,024 --> 00:14:03,082 Just for the record, I've always 350 00:14:03,082 --> 00:14:07,016 been attacked more from the left than I have from the right. 351 00:14:07,016 --> 00:14:08,002 Why is that? 352 00:14:08,002 --> 00:14:11,098 Well, I think the right thinks I'm irrelevant. 353 00:14:11,098 --> 00:14:13,062 And the left thinks that I should 354 00:14:13,062 --> 00:14:16,018 have been preaching their sermon, whatever 355 00:14:16,018 --> 00:14:17,070 it may happen to be. 356 00:14:17,070 --> 00:14:21,010 And that I am, therefore, a traitor for not having done that 357 00:14:21,010 --> 00:14:22,076 which they themselves would do. 358 00:14:22,076 --> 00:14:24,034 And what's your response to that? 359 00:14:24,034 --> 00:14:28,002 It's unprintable. 360 00:14:28,002 --> 00:14:30,014 It involves a finger. 361 00:14:30,014 --> 00:14:33,024 [LAUGHS] Do I see a little blush? 362 00:14:33,024 --> 00:14:35,042 Do I see little bit of a blush? 363 00:14:35,042 --> 00:14:37,004 She may turn us red. 364 00:14:37,004 --> 00:14:39,027 She did not turn us to stone. 365 00:14:39,027 --> 00:14:40,053 I'm paraphrasing here. 366 00:14:40,053 --> 00:14:42,095 But in your memoir, you say you sometimes 367 00:14:42,095 --> 00:14:46,015 cut this Medusa-like figure with a Medusa-like stare 368 00:14:46,015 --> 00:14:47,001 with interviewers. 369 00:14:47,001 --> 00:14:49,015 I feel like we're doing OK. 370 00:14:49,015 --> 00:14:51,077 The earlier me. 371 00:14:51,077 --> 00:14:53,009 Now I'm a nice old lady. 372 00:14:53,009 --> 00:14:54,057 So you don't have to be worried. 373 00:14:54,057 --> 00:14:55,052 Why the pivot? 374 00:14:55,052 --> 00:14:56,073 MARGARET ATWOOD: I got older. 375 00:14:56,073 --> 00:15:00,059 [LAUGHS] I became a blonde. 376 00:15:00,059 --> 00:15:03,077 This was my way of saying I enjoyed this conversation. 377 00:15:03,077 --> 00:15:05,075 Oh, is that your way of saying it? 378 00:15:05,075 --> 00:15:07,045 So why aren't you a scary old witch? 379 00:15:07,045 --> 00:15:10,005 Is that your way of saying it? 380 00:15:15,067 --> 00:15:18,035 WOMAN: What inspired the signature red cloaks 381 00:15:18,035 --> 00:15:19,085 from The Handmaid's Tale? 382 00:15:19,085 --> 00:15:20,035 Yes. 383 00:15:20,035 --> 00:15:24,019 Well, if you have a cult, you have to have outfits. 384 00:15:24,019 --> 00:15:26,027 WOMAN: At 60minutesovertime.com. 385 00:15:31,067 --> 00:15:34,047 Salman Rushdie has been a marked man for nearly half 386 00:15:34,047 --> 00:15:35,039 his life. 387 00:15:35,039 --> 00:15:38,076 In 1989, Iran's Leader, Ayatollah Khomeini, 388 00:15:38,076 --> 00:15:42,074 declared Rushdie's novel, The Satanic Versus, blasphemous, 389 00:15:42,074 --> 00:15:46,004 an insult to Islam, and called for the Indian born writer's 390 00:15:46,004 --> 00:15:47,048 assassination. 391 00:15:47,048 --> 00:15:50,032 Rushdie went into hiding with around the clock police 392 00:15:50,032 --> 00:15:52,020 protection for 10 years. 393 00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:55,060 He eventually moved to the US and thought he was safe. 394 00:15:55,060 --> 00:15:58,060 But in August 2022, as he was about to speak 395 00:15:58,060 --> 00:16:01,024 at a literary event in Chautauqua, New York, 396 00:16:01,024 --> 00:16:04,076 Salman Rushdie was attacked by a Muslim man with a knife. 397 00:16:04,076 --> 00:16:07,080 Rushdie, who's now 78, lost his right eye 398 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,064 and came close to dying. 399 00:16:09,064 --> 00:16:12,004 He's come to terms with the attempt on his life 400 00:16:12,004 --> 00:16:15,084 by writing a book about it called simply Knife. 401 00:16:15,084 --> 00:16:18,074 Anderson Cooper spoke with Rushdie in 2024, 402 00:16:18,074 --> 00:16:22,088 in what was his first television interview since the attack. 403 00:16:22,088 --> 00:16:26,028 ANDERSON COOPER: You had had a dream two days, I think it was, 404 00:16:26,028 --> 00:16:27,096 before the attack. 405 00:16:27,096 --> 00:16:29,010 What was the dream? 406 00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:30,046 I kind of had a premonition. 407 00:16:30,046 --> 00:16:34,052 I mean, I had a dream of being attacked in an amphitheater. 408 00:16:34,052 --> 00:16:36,081 But it was a kind of Roman Empire dream, 409 00:16:36,081 --> 00:16:40,057 as if I was in the Colosseum. 410 00:16:40,057 --> 00:16:43,007 And it was just somebody with a spear stabbing downwards. 411 00:16:43,007 --> 00:16:44,065 And I was rolling around on the floor, 412 00:16:44,065 --> 00:16:46,081 trying to get away from him. 413 00:16:46,081 --> 00:16:50,021 And I woke up and was quite shaken by it. 414 00:16:50,021 --> 00:16:52,059 And I had to go to Chautauqua. 415 00:16:52,059 --> 00:16:54,075 And I said to my wife, Eliza. 416 00:16:54,075 --> 00:16:56,011 I said, I don't want to go. 417 00:16:56,011 --> 00:16:58,003 Because of the dream. 418 00:16:58,003 --> 00:16:59,059 And then I thought, don't be silly. 419 00:16:59,059 --> 00:17:00,089 It's a dream. 420 00:17:00,089 --> 00:17:02,089 ANDERSON COOPER (VOICEOVER): Salman Rushdie, one 421 00:17:02,089 --> 00:17:04,071 of his generation's most acclaimed writers, 422 00:17:04,071 --> 00:17:08,057 had been invited to the town of Chautauqua, close to Lake Erie, 423 00:17:08,057 --> 00:17:11,097 to speak about a subject he knows all too well-- 424 00:17:11,097 --> 00:17:13,085 the importance of protecting writers 425 00:17:13,085 --> 00:17:15,097 whose lives are under threat. 426 00:17:15,097 --> 00:17:20,037 Did you have any anxiety being in such a public space? 427 00:17:20,037 --> 00:17:23,053 Not really, because in the more than 20 years 428 00:17:23,053 --> 00:17:25,037 that I've been living in America, 429 00:17:25,037 --> 00:17:28,019 I've done a lot of these things. 430 00:17:28,019 --> 00:17:29,077 You haven't had security around you 431 00:17:29,077 --> 00:17:31,056 or close protection detail for a long time. 432 00:17:31,056 --> 00:17:32,015 A long time. 433 00:17:32,015 --> 00:17:35,092 But what happens in many places that you go and lecture 434 00:17:35,092 --> 00:17:39,080 is that they're used to having a certain degree of security, 435 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,010 venue security. 436 00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:42,052 In this case, there wasn't any. 437 00:17:42,052 --> 00:17:44,038 The irony, of course, is you were there 438 00:17:44,038 --> 00:17:45,092 to talk about writers in danger. 439 00:17:45,092 --> 00:17:47,016 Yeah, exactly. 440 00:17:47,016 --> 00:17:49,046 And the need for writers from other countries 441 00:17:49,046 --> 00:17:52,072 to have safe spaces in America, amongst other places. 442 00:17:52,072 --> 00:17:54,034 And then, yeah, it just turned out 443 00:17:54,034 --> 00:17:56,056 not to be a safe space for me. 444 00:17:56,056 --> 00:17:58,006 ANDERSON COOPER: For years, no place 445 00:17:58,006 --> 00:18:01,082 was safe for Salman Rushdie, whose sprawling 600 page 446 00:18:01,082 --> 00:18:04,006 novel, The Satanic Versus, offended 447 00:18:04,006 --> 00:18:07,002 some Muslims for its depiction of the Prophet Muhammad. 448 00:18:07,002 --> 00:18:08,086 [CHANTING] 449 00:18:08,086 --> 00:18:12,002 Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa, 450 00:18:12,002 --> 00:18:18,042 a religious decree calling for Rushdie's death in 1989. 451 00:18:18,042 --> 00:18:22,018 There were worldwide protests from London to Lahore. 452 00:18:22,018 --> 00:18:25,002 The Satanic Versus was burned, and 12 people 453 00:18:25,002 --> 00:18:26,094 died in clashes with police. 454 00:18:26,094 --> 00:18:29,048 The book's Japanese translator was murdered. 455 00:18:29,048 --> 00:18:32,039 And others associated with it were attacked. 456 00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:35,083 Did you have any idea that it would cause violence? 457 00:18:35,083 --> 00:18:37,025 SALMAN RUSHDIE: No, I had no idea. 458 00:18:37,025 --> 00:18:39,087 I thought probably some conservative religious people 459 00:18:39,087 --> 00:18:40,074 wouldn't like it. 460 00:18:40,074 --> 00:18:42,061 But they didn't like anything I wrote anyway. 461 00:18:42,061 --> 00:18:45,053 So I thought, well, they don't have to read it. 462 00:18:45,053 --> 00:18:46,079 Were you naive? 463 00:18:46,079 --> 00:18:47,066 Probably. 464 00:18:47,066 --> 00:18:49,033 I mean, it's easy looking back to think. 465 00:18:49,033 --> 00:18:51,075 But nothing like this had ever happened to anybody. 466 00:18:51,075 --> 00:18:54,027 And of course, almost all the people who attacked 467 00:18:54,027 --> 00:18:57,031 the book did so without reading it. 468 00:18:57,031 --> 00:19:00,087 I was often told that I had intended to insult or offend 469 00:19:00,087 --> 00:19:01,055 people. 470 00:19:01,055 --> 00:19:04,095 My view was, if I need to insult you, I can do it really quickly. 471 00:19:04,095 --> 00:19:08,007 I don't need to spend five years of my life trying to write 472 00:19:08,007 --> 00:19:11,032 a 600 page book to insult you. 473 00:19:11,032 --> 00:19:13,019 ANDERSON COOPER: Rushdie was living in London 474 00:19:13,019 --> 00:19:14,061 when he went into hiding. 475 00:19:14,061 --> 00:19:16,071 And for the next 10 years, the British government 476 00:19:16,071 --> 00:19:19,095 provided him with 24 hour police protection. 477 00:19:19,095 --> 00:19:21,008 Did people try to kill you? 478 00:19:21,008 --> 00:19:21,091 SALMAN RUSHDIE: Yes. 479 00:19:21,091 --> 00:19:25,059 There were maybe as many as half a dozen serious assassination 480 00:19:25,059 --> 00:19:27,073 attempts, which were not random people. 481 00:19:27,073 --> 00:19:30,096 They were state sponsored terrorism professionals. 482 00:19:30,096 --> 00:19:32,094 ANDERSON COOPER: After diplomatic negotiations, 483 00:19:32,094 --> 00:19:36,088 the Iranian state called off its assassins in 1998. 484 00:19:36,088 --> 00:19:39,060 Rushdie finally came out of the shadows. 485 00:19:39,060 --> 00:19:42,008 He moved to New York and, for the next two decades, 486 00:19:42,008 --> 00:19:43,040 lived openly. 487 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,058 He was a man about town. 488 00:19:45,058 --> 00:19:48,036 He continued writing and became a celebrated advocate 489 00:19:48,036 --> 00:19:50,068 for freedom of expression. 490 00:19:50,068 --> 00:19:52,024 So when he received the invitation 491 00:19:52,024 --> 00:19:57,012 to speak in Chautauqua in August 2022, he gladly accepted. 492 00:19:57,012 --> 00:19:59,016 SALMAN RUSHDIE: I was seated at stage right-- 493 00:19:59,016 --> 00:20:00,066 ANDERSON COOPER: In his book, Knife, 494 00:20:00,066 --> 00:20:03,004 he described what happened next. 495 00:20:03,004 --> 00:20:05,036 "Then, in the corner of my right eye, 496 00:20:05,036 --> 00:20:07,088 the last thing my right eye would ever see, 497 00:20:07,088 --> 00:20:11,032 I saw the man in Black running toward me down the right-hand 498 00:20:11,032 --> 00:20:13,016 side of the seating area. 499 00:20:13,016 --> 00:20:15,060 Black clothes, Black face mask. 500 00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:17,072 He was coming in hard and low. 501 00:20:17,072 --> 00:20:19,052 A squat missile. 502 00:20:19,052 --> 00:20:23,016 I confess, I had sometimes imagined my assassin 503 00:20:23,016 --> 00:20:25,076 rising up in some public forum or other 504 00:20:25,076 --> 00:20:28,080 and coming for me in just this way. 505 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,085 So my first thought when I saw this murderous shape rushing 506 00:20:31,085 --> 00:20:37,081 towards me was, so it's you, here you are." 507 00:20:37,081 --> 00:20:38,073 "So it's you. 508 00:20:38,073 --> 00:20:39,069 Here you are." 509 00:20:39,069 --> 00:20:40,021 Yeah. 510 00:20:40,021 --> 00:20:42,002 It's like you've been waiting for it. 511 00:20:42,002 --> 00:20:43,039 Yeah, that's what it felt like. 512 00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:46,013 It felt like something coming out of the distant past 513 00:20:46,013 --> 00:20:49,045 and trying to drag me back in time, if you like, back 514 00:20:49,045 --> 00:20:52,069 into that distant past in order to kill me. 515 00:20:52,069 --> 00:20:58,025 And when he got to me, he basically hit me very hard here. 516 00:20:58,025 --> 00:21:00,085 And initially, I thought I'd been punched. 517 00:21:00,085 --> 00:21:02,027 You didn't actually see a knife. 518 00:21:02,027 --> 00:21:03,049 I didn't see the knife. 519 00:21:03,049 --> 00:21:06,057 And I didn't realize, until I saw blood coming out, 520 00:21:06,057 --> 00:21:09,003 that there had been a knife in his fist. 521 00:21:09,003 --> 00:21:10,057 So where was that stab? 522 00:21:10,057 --> 00:21:11,015 Here. 523 00:21:11,015 --> 00:21:11,095 ANDERSON COOPER: In your neck. 524 00:21:11,095 --> 00:21:12,074 In my neck, yeah. 525 00:21:12,074 --> 00:21:14,023 Then there were a lot more. 526 00:21:14,023 --> 00:21:17,033 The worst wounds was there was a big wound 527 00:21:17,033 --> 00:21:19,085 like this across my neck. 528 00:21:19,085 --> 00:21:23,097 And there was a puncture stab wound here. 529 00:21:23,097 --> 00:21:26,049 And then, of course, there was the attack on my eye. 530 00:21:26,049 --> 00:21:29,045 Do you remember being stabbed in the eye? 531 00:21:29,045 --> 00:21:30,033 No. 532 00:21:30,033 --> 00:21:32,045 I remember falling. 533 00:21:32,045 --> 00:21:35,065 Then I remembered not knowing what had happened to my eye. 534 00:21:35,065 --> 00:21:37,032 ANDERSON COOPER (VOICEOVER): He was also 535 00:21:37,032 --> 00:21:40,013 stabbed in his hand, chest, abdomen, and thigh. 536 00:21:40,013 --> 00:21:42,013 15 wounds in all. 537 00:21:42,013 --> 00:21:44,063 He was both stabbing and also slashing. 538 00:21:44,063 --> 00:21:46,069 I think he was just wildly-- 539 00:21:46,069 --> 00:21:49,057 ANDERSON COOPER (VOICEOVER): The attack lasted 27 seconds 540 00:21:49,057 --> 00:21:53,087 to feel just how long that is-- this is what 27 seconds is. 541 00:22:20,066 --> 00:22:21,069 That's it. 542 00:22:21,069 --> 00:22:23,061 That's quite a long time. 543 00:22:23,061 --> 00:22:28,074 That's the extraordinary ordinary half minute of intimacy 544 00:22:28,074 --> 00:22:32,086 in which life meets death. 545 00:22:32,086 --> 00:22:35,014 ANDERSON COOPER: What stopped it from being longer? 546 00:22:35,014 --> 00:22:36,096 SALMAN RUSHDIE: The audience pulling him off me. 547 00:22:36,096 --> 00:22:37,076 ANDERSON COOPER: Strangers to you. 548 00:22:37,076 --> 00:22:38,046 SALMAN RUSHDIE: Total strangers. 549 00:22:38,046 --> 00:22:40,034 To this day, I don't know their names. 550 00:22:40,034 --> 00:22:42,001 ANDERSON COOPER: Some of those strangers 551 00:22:42,001 --> 00:22:44,014 restrained the attacker, while others desperately 552 00:22:44,014 --> 00:22:46,084 tried to stem the flow of Rushdie's blood. 553 00:22:46,084 --> 00:22:48,084 SALMAN RUSHDIE: There was really a lot of blood. 554 00:22:48,084 --> 00:22:50,016 ANDERSON COOPER: You were actually watching your blood. 555 00:22:50,016 --> 00:22:52,008 SALMAN RUSHDIE: I actually watching it spread. 556 00:22:52,008 --> 00:22:55,006 And then I remember thinking that I was probably dying. 557 00:22:55,006 --> 00:22:59,004 And it was interesting because it was quite matter of fact. 558 00:22:59,004 --> 00:23:01,086 It wasn't like I was terrified of it or whatever. 559 00:23:01,086 --> 00:23:03,020 And yeah, there was nothing. 560 00:23:03,020 --> 00:23:06,044 No heavenly choirs, no pearly gates. 561 00:23:06,044 --> 00:23:09,008 I mean, I'm not a supernatural person. 562 00:23:09,008 --> 00:23:11,059 I believe that death comes as the end. 563 00:23:11,059 --> 00:23:13,030 There was nothing that happened that made 564 00:23:13,030 --> 00:23:14,072 me change my mind about that. 565 00:23:14,072 --> 00:23:16,029 You have not had a revelation. 566 00:23:16,029 --> 00:23:18,046 I have not had any revelation, except that there's 567 00:23:18,046 --> 00:23:20,056 no revelation to be had. 568 00:23:20,056 --> 00:23:22,056 ANDERSON COOPER: His attacker, the man in black, 569 00:23:22,056 --> 00:23:25,099 was hustled off the stage. 570 00:23:25,099 --> 00:23:29,007 In the book, you do not use the attacker's name. 571 00:23:29,007 --> 00:23:29,057 Yeah. 572 00:23:29,057 --> 00:23:32,051 I thought, I don't want his name in my book. 573 00:23:32,051 --> 00:23:34,053 And I don't use it in conversation either. 574 00:23:34,053 --> 00:23:36,055 But that is important to you, not to give him 575 00:23:36,055 --> 00:23:37,057 space in your brain. 576 00:23:37,057 --> 00:23:38,007 Yeah. 577 00:23:38,007 --> 00:23:41,027 He and I had 27 seconds together. 578 00:23:41,027 --> 00:23:42,035 That's it. 579 00:23:42,035 --> 00:23:45,092 I don't need to give him any more of my time. 580 00:23:45,092 --> 00:23:47,059 ANDERSON COOPER: Paramedics flew Rushdie 581 00:23:47,059 --> 00:23:49,061 to a hospital in Erie, Pennsylvania, 582 00:23:49,061 --> 00:23:53,047 40 miles away, where a team of doctors battled for eight hours 583 00:23:53,047 --> 00:23:54,079 to save his life. 584 00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:56,061 When he finally came out of surgery, 585 00:23:56,061 --> 00:24:00,001 his wife, Eliza, a poet and novelist, was waiting. 586 00:24:00,001 --> 00:24:03,049 I mean, he wasn't moving, and he was just laid out. 587 00:24:03,049 --> 00:24:05,025 He looked half dead to you? 588 00:24:05,025 --> 00:24:06,085 Yes, he did. 589 00:24:06,085 --> 00:24:08,067 He was a different color. 590 00:24:08,067 --> 00:24:09,077 He was cold. 591 00:24:09,077 --> 00:24:13,011 I mean, his face was stapled. 592 00:24:13,011 --> 00:24:16,051 Just staples holding his face together. 593 00:24:16,051 --> 00:24:19,087 ANDERSON COOPER: Rushdie was on a ventilator, unable to speak. 594 00:24:19,087 --> 00:24:22,007 Eliza and the doctors had no idea 595 00:24:22,007 --> 00:24:24,080 whether the knife that had penetrated his eye 596 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,056 had damaged his brain. 597 00:24:26,056 --> 00:24:30,040 Someone from the staff said that we 598 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,006 would use this system of wiggling the toes. 599 00:24:33,006 --> 00:24:33,078 To communicate? 600 00:24:33,078 --> 00:24:34,062 To communicate. 601 00:24:34,062 --> 00:24:36,012 Do you remember the first question 602 00:24:36,012 --> 00:24:37,054 you asked to get a wiggle or-- 603 00:24:37,054 --> 00:24:40,072 I think I said, Salman, it's Eliza, can you hear me. 604 00:24:40,072 --> 00:24:44,064 And there was a wiggle. 605 00:24:44,064 --> 00:24:48,036 And I asked him, I think, do you know where you are. 606 00:24:48,036 --> 00:24:50,088 And he wiggled. 607 00:24:50,088 --> 00:24:53,066 And it was a very basic, simple questions. 608 00:24:53,066 --> 00:24:55,016 Because you can't express yourself 609 00:24:55,016 --> 00:24:57,092 with any subtlety with your toes. 610 00:24:57,092 --> 00:24:59,066 Which is your favorite thing. 611 00:24:59,066 --> 00:25:02,016 [LAUGHTER] 612 00:25:02,016 --> 00:25:04,016 ANDERSON COOPER: After 18 days in the hospital, 613 00:25:04,016 --> 00:25:08,032 and three weeks in rehab, Rushdie was discharged. 614 00:25:08,032 --> 00:25:12,094 One of the surgeons who had saved my life said to me, first, 615 00:25:12,094 --> 00:25:15,064 you were really unlucky, and then you were really lucky. 616 00:25:15,064 --> 00:25:17,060 I said, what's the lucky part. 617 00:25:17,060 --> 00:25:19,012 And he said, well, the lucky part 618 00:25:19,012 --> 00:25:21,056 is that the man who attacked you had no idea how 619 00:25:21,056 --> 00:25:23,021 to kill a man with a knife. 620 00:25:23,021 --> 00:25:24,096 You're not a believer in miracles. 621 00:25:24,096 --> 00:25:27,021 But the fact that you survived, you write in the book, 622 00:25:27,021 --> 00:25:28,077 is a miracle. 623 00:25:28,077 --> 00:25:30,079 This is a contradiction. 624 00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:32,033 How does somebody who doesn't believe 625 00:25:32,033 --> 00:25:34,093 in the supernatural account for the fact 626 00:25:34,093 --> 00:25:37,041 that something has happened which feels like a miracle? 627 00:25:37,041 --> 00:25:40,013 I mean, I certainly don't feel that some hand reached down 628 00:25:40,013 --> 00:25:42,027 from the skies and guarded me. 629 00:25:42,027 --> 00:25:44,045 But I do think something happened which 630 00:25:44,045 --> 00:25:45,093 wasn't supposed to happen. 631 00:25:45,093 --> 00:25:48,012 And I have no explanation for it. 632 00:25:48,012 --> 00:25:50,045 ANDERSON COOPER: His attacker was a 24-year-old from New 633 00:25:50,045 --> 00:25:52,083 Jersey who lived in his mother's basement. 634 00:25:52,083 --> 00:25:54,093 He was believed to be a lone wolf. 635 00:25:54,093 --> 00:25:57,043 He pleaded not guilty to attempted murder. 636 00:25:57,043 --> 00:26:00,041 And when we talk with Rushdie, he was still awaiting trial. 637 00:26:00,041 --> 00:26:02,077 In an interview, he told The New York Post, 638 00:26:02,077 --> 00:26:05,069 he'd only read a couple pages of The Satanic Versus 639 00:26:05,069 --> 00:26:08,033 and seen some clips of Rushdie on YouTube. 640 00:26:08,033 --> 00:26:11,041 He said, he didn't like him very much because Rushdie 641 00:26:11,041 --> 00:26:13,009 had attacked Islam. 642 00:26:13,009 --> 00:26:16,045 Does it matter to you what his motive was? 643 00:26:16,045 --> 00:26:19,073 I mean, it's interesting to me because it's a mystery. 644 00:26:19,073 --> 00:26:22,090 If I had written a character who knew 645 00:26:22,090 --> 00:26:25,042 so little about his proposed victim 646 00:26:25,042 --> 00:26:28,082 and yet was willing to commit the crime of murder, 647 00:26:28,082 --> 00:26:31,062 my publishers might well say to me that that's undermotivated. 648 00:26:31,062 --> 00:26:33,016 You need to develop that character. 649 00:26:33,016 --> 00:26:34,094 Yeah, not enough of a reason. 650 00:26:34,094 --> 00:26:36,086 Not convincing. 651 00:26:36,086 --> 00:26:39,018 But yet that's what he did. 652 00:26:39,018 --> 00:26:41,082 ANDERSON COOPER: Rushdie's Knife, his 22 book, 653 00:26:41,082 --> 00:26:44,027 is one he initially did not want to write. 654 00:26:44,027 --> 00:26:46,056 SALMAN RUSHDIE: That was the last thing I wanted to do. 655 00:26:46,056 --> 00:26:49,005 Because you didn't want this to yet again define you? 656 00:26:49,005 --> 00:26:49,092 SALMAN RUSHDIE: Yeah. 657 00:26:49,092 --> 00:26:52,026 It was very difficult for me, after The Satanic Versus 658 00:26:52,026 --> 00:26:54,022 was published, that the only thing anybody knew 659 00:26:54,022 --> 00:26:56,052 about me was this death threat. 660 00:26:56,052 --> 00:26:59,099 But it became clear to me that I couldn't write anything else. 661 00:26:59,099 --> 00:27:01,024 You had to write this first. 662 00:27:01,024 --> 00:27:02,041 I had to write this first. 663 00:27:02,041 --> 00:27:06,036 I just thought, I need to focus on, to use the cliche, 664 00:27:06,036 --> 00:27:07,040 the elephant in the room. 665 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,070 And the moment I thought that, kind of something 666 00:27:09,070 --> 00:27:11,010 changed in my head. 667 00:27:11,010 --> 00:27:13,018 And it then became a book I really 668 00:27:13,018 --> 00:27:14,036 very much wanted to write. 669 00:27:14,036 --> 00:27:16,082 You say the language was my knife. 670 00:27:16,082 --> 00:27:19,026 If I had unexpectedly been caught in an unwanted knife 671 00:27:19,026 --> 00:27:20,063 fight, maybe this was the knife I 672 00:27:20,063 --> 00:27:23,013 could use to fight back, to take charge of what had happened 673 00:27:23,013 --> 00:27:25,033 to me, to own it, make it mine. 674 00:27:25,033 --> 00:27:25,083 Yeah. 675 00:27:25,083 --> 00:27:32,047 I mean, languages are a way of breaking open the world. 676 00:27:32,047 --> 00:27:34,004 I don't have any other weapons. 677 00:27:34,004 --> 00:27:35,071 But I've been using this particular tool 678 00:27:35,071 --> 00:27:37,019 for quite a long time. 679 00:27:37,019 --> 00:27:41,020 So I thought this was my way of dealing with it. 680 00:27:41,020 --> 00:27:43,053 ANDERSON COOPER: It's been three years since the attack. 681 00:27:43,053 --> 00:27:46,055 And Rushdie is back home now in New York, 682 00:27:46,055 --> 00:27:50,007 still getting used to navigating the world with one eye. 683 00:27:50,007 --> 00:27:52,043 How much time did it take to readjust-- 684 00:27:52,043 --> 00:27:53,033 I'm still doing it. 685 00:27:53,033 --> 00:27:54,001 You still are? 686 00:27:54,001 --> 00:27:55,002 Yeah. 687 00:27:55,002 --> 00:27:55,011 ANDERSON COOPER (VOICEOVER): Do you 688 00:27:55,011 --> 00:27:57,036 feel like you are a different person after the attack? 689 00:27:57,036 --> 00:27:59,086 SALMAN RUSHDIE (VOICEOVER): I don't feel I'm very different. 690 00:27:59,086 --> 00:28:01,057 But I do feel that it has left a shadow. 691 00:28:01,057 --> 00:28:03,091 And I think that shadow is just there. 692 00:28:03,091 --> 00:28:07,057 And some days, it's dark, and some days, it's not. 693 00:28:07,057 --> 00:28:09,051 You feel less than you were before? 694 00:28:09,051 --> 00:28:12,007 No, I just feel more the presence of death. 695 00:28:12,007 --> 00:28:14,065 In an interview almost 25 years ago, 696 00:28:14,065 --> 00:28:17,098 you said of the fatwa, I want to find an end to this story. 697 00:28:17,098 --> 00:28:20,052 It is the one story I must find an end to. 698 00:28:20,052 --> 00:28:22,008 Have you found that ending? 699 00:28:22,008 --> 00:28:23,058 And an ending to this story as well? 700 00:28:23,058 --> 00:28:24,058 Well, I thought I had. 701 00:28:24,058 --> 00:28:26,012 And then it turned out I hadn't. 702 00:28:26,012 --> 00:28:31,002 I'm hoping this is just a last twitch of that story. 703 00:28:33,078 --> 00:28:34,068 I don't know. 704 00:28:34,068 --> 00:28:37,072 I'll let you know. 705 00:28:37,072 --> 00:28:40,000 Last year, Salman Rushdie's attacker 706 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000 was found guilty of attempted murder 707 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,054 and sentenced to 25 years in prison. 708 00:28:56,044 --> 00:29:00,088 With more than 150 million copies sold in 40 languages, 709 00:29:00,088 --> 00:29:03,012 Guinness World Records is one of the best selling 710 00:29:03,012 --> 00:29:04,056 books in history. 711 00:29:04,056 --> 00:29:07,056 In it, you'll find the shortest, tallest, and fastest, 712 00:29:07,056 --> 00:29:11,000 alongside jaw dropping human feats and eighth grade bathroom 713 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:11,088 humor. 714 00:29:11,088 --> 00:29:14,046 As Cecilia Vega first told you in November, 715 00:29:14,046 --> 00:29:16,069 some achievements are so over the top, 716 00:29:16,069 --> 00:29:19,061 it was hard to keep a straight face during the interviews. 717 00:29:19,061 --> 00:29:23,025 But behind the spectacle, a meticulous system of British 718 00:29:23,025 --> 00:29:24,005 auditing. 719 00:29:24,005 --> 00:29:27,005 So strict, it has crushed many more record attempts 720 00:29:27,005 --> 00:29:28,093 than it has certified. 721 00:29:28,093 --> 00:29:30,095 Even if what you see defies belief, 722 00:29:30,095 --> 00:29:34,057 you can trust that if it made it into the book, it is real 723 00:29:34,057 --> 00:29:40,029 and, as Guinness World Records declares, officially amazing. 724 00:29:40,029 --> 00:29:41,077 Are you ready? 725 00:29:41,077 --> 00:29:43,041 ALL: Yeah! 726 00:29:43,041 --> 00:29:44,065 How are you feeling? 727 00:29:44,065 --> 00:29:45,077 I'm feeling pumped. 728 00:29:45,077 --> 00:29:46,027 Yeah? 729 00:29:46,027 --> 00:29:47,005 Yeah. 730 00:29:47,005 --> 00:29:50,031 CECILIA VEGA: For Colin Kaplan, the stakes couldn't be higher. 731 00:29:50,031 --> 00:29:51,073 Not in my wildest dreams could I 732 00:29:51,073 --> 00:29:54,045 have ever thought that I'd be doing anything like this. 733 00:29:54,045 --> 00:29:56,033 CECILIA VEGA: After a year of planning, 734 00:29:56,033 --> 00:30:00,025 he's about to find out if his city, New Haven, Connecticut, 735 00:30:00,025 --> 00:30:04,029 can eat its way into history by hosting the world's largest 736 00:30:04,029 --> 00:30:05,065 pizza party. 737 00:30:05,065 --> 00:30:07,029 Let's get some pizza. 738 00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:10,089 CECILIA VEGA: Kaplan, a local historian and food tour guide, 739 00:30:10,089 --> 00:30:13,053 is so obsessed with pizza, last year, he 740 00:30:13,053 --> 00:30:17,006 chartered a jet to Washington and got his Congresswoman 741 00:30:17,006 --> 00:30:20,078 to declare New Haven the pizza capital of America. 742 00:30:20,078 --> 00:30:23,086 New Haven pizza capital, baby. 743 00:30:23,086 --> 00:30:25,098 Is this a serious endeavor? 744 00:30:25,098 --> 00:30:27,004 Yeah. 745 00:30:27,004 --> 00:30:27,093 [LAUGHTER] 746 00:30:27,093 --> 00:30:29,016 Yeah, I think it is. 747 00:30:29,016 --> 00:30:32,004 I'll tell you what-- it seems light and fun. 748 00:30:32,004 --> 00:30:36,010 But it's serious in a sense of what's on the line. 749 00:30:36,010 --> 00:30:38,022 CECILIA VEGA: What's on the line is the glory 750 00:30:38,022 --> 00:30:40,026 of a Guinness World Record. 751 00:30:40,026 --> 00:30:44,018 And people will do just about anything to get one. 752 00:30:44,018 --> 00:30:47,032 Humans are such an interesting bunch, aren't we? 753 00:30:47,032 --> 00:30:50,038 And record breaking is an innately human thing. 754 00:30:50,038 --> 00:30:52,074 And if that means you do strange things 755 00:30:52,074 --> 00:30:57,022 like swallowing sausages whole, or climbing Everest, or running 756 00:30:57,022 --> 00:31:02,008 a marathon with a milk bottle on your head, then that's fine. 757 00:31:02,008 --> 00:31:03,010 That's great. 758 00:31:03,010 --> 00:31:05,070 CECILIA VEGA: Craig Glenday has been the books editor in chief 759 00:31:05,070 --> 00:31:08,006 for the past 21 years. 760 00:31:08,006 --> 00:31:08,096 I really like that. 761 00:31:08,096 --> 00:31:10,050 So I think we want more of that. 762 00:31:10,050 --> 00:31:12,097 CECILIA VEGA: In his signature Scottish accent, 763 00:31:12,097 --> 00:31:14,099 he recounts with a straight face what 764 00:31:14,099 --> 00:31:18,015 is often a circus of absurdity. 765 00:31:18,015 --> 00:31:21,067 We get things like fastest time to run around my garden, 766 00:31:21,067 --> 00:31:23,049 playing the banjo with a snake on my head. 767 00:31:23,049 --> 00:31:25,047 It's like, next. 768 00:31:25,047 --> 00:31:28,035 They get a nice letter of like, thank you, but no thank you. 769 00:31:28,035 --> 00:31:30,035 CECILIA VEGA: Cutest babies and cutest dogs 770 00:31:30,035 --> 00:31:32,015 don't make the cut either. 771 00:31:32,015 --> 00:31:34,079 Records must meet strict criteria. 772 00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:37,077 They have to be filmed from multiple angles, 773 00:31:37,077 --> 00:31:40,079 verified by independent eyewitnesses, 774 00:31:40,079 --> 00:31:43,079 and measured with precision. 775 00:31:43,079 --> 00:31:47,055 Each year, Guinness World Records receives roughly 50,000 776 00:31:47,055 --> 00:31:48,077 applications. 777 00:31:48,077 --> 00:31:52,047 But as many as 95% get rejected. 778 00:31:52,047 --> 00:31:54,015 The largest number of submissions 779 00:31:54,015 --> 00:31:56,039 come from the United States. 780 00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:59,007 One of my favorite days in the job I was at the X Games 781 00:31:59,007 --> 00:32:00,095 at the Staples Center in LA. 782 00:32:00,095 --> 00:32:03,075 And a dog zipped past me on a skateboard. 783 00:32:03,075 --> 00:32:06,067 And despite the heat, I chased after this dog. 784 00:32:06,067 --> 00:32:09,003 And I found the owner and said, I've never 785 00:32:09,003 --> 00:32:10,017 seen a dog on a skateboard. 786 00:32:10,017 --> 00:32:11,038 He said, oh, this is Tillman. 787 00:32:11,038 --> 00:32:12,090 He loves skateboarding. 788 00:32:12,090 --> 00:32:14,020 I had a tape measure. 789 00:32:14,020 --> 00:32:16,000 We measured out 100 meters of the car park 790 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,020 at the Staples Center. 791 00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:19,004 And we set the record there and then 792 00:32:19,004 --> 00:32:20,051 because I was so amazed by it. 793 00:32:20,051 --> 00:32:22,084 Do you just walk through the world with a tape measure 794 00:32:22,084 --> 00:32:23,066 in your pocket? 795 00:32:23,066 --> 00:32:24,054 CRAIG GLENDAY: Well, I do usually. 796 00:32:24,054 --> 00:32:25,024 Do you? 797 00:32:25,024 --> 00:32:27,056 Yeah, I have a tape measure and a stopwatch, 798 00:32:27,056 --> 00:32:29,004 because you never know. 799 00:32:29,004 --> 00:32:31,012 CECILIA VEGA: Many of the record holders you know, 800 00:32:31,012 --> 00:32:34,070 Usain Bolt for the fastest 200 meters, 801 00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:37,020 Beyonce for the most Grammys. 802 00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:40,084 And many you've probably never even imagined. 803 00:32:40,084 --> 00:32:42,012 Go. 804 00:32:42,012 --> 00:32:44,084 CECILIA VEGA: Like serial record breaker David Rush, 805 00:32:44,084 --> 00:32:49,052 an Idaho tech worker, who has broken more than 350 records 806 00:32:49,052 --> 00:32:52,060 and counting, including most bites 807 00:32:52,060 --> 00:32:56,068 taken from three apples while juggling for a minute. 808 00:32:56,068 --> 00:32:58,056 Just past the two mile mark. 809 00:32:58,056 --> 00:33:02,052 CECILIA VEGA: And most T-shirts worn during a half marathon. 810 00:33:02,052 --> 00:33:04,092 And Monsieur Mangetout. 811 00:33:04,092 --> 00:33:07,084 That's Mr. Eats Everything in French. 812 00:33:07,084 --> 00:33:11,033 He held the record for the world's strangest diet. 813 00:33:11,033 --> 00:33:15,005 The guy-- he'd supposedly eat in a Cessna 814 00:33:15,005 --> 00:33:17,015 because he could eat metal and glass. 815 00:33:17,015 --> 00:33:17,086 A Cessna plane? 816 00:33:17,086 --> 00:33:19,061 Well, apparently, it took him two years. 817 00:33:19,061 --> 00:33:20,041 We couldn't quite-- 818 00:33:20,041 --> 00:33:21,062 Doesn't sound very healthy. 819 00:33:21,062 --> 00:33:23,021 Well, I mean, his wife wouldn't 820 00:33:23,021 --> 00:33:25,077 let him use the toilet at home because if he'd 821 00:33:25,077 --> 00:33:29,058 been eating metal, it tends to come out like bullets. 822 00:33:29,058 --> 00:33:30,091 And it would chip the porcelain. 823 00:33:30,091 --> 00:33:35,013 So he'd have to use a hotel with metal toilets near his house. 824 00:33:35,013 --> 00:33:37,049 This is the craziest interview I've ever done. 825 00:33:37,049 --> 00:33:38,019 Just saying. 826 00:33:38,019 --> 00:33:40,025 Sorry. 827 00:33:40,025 --> 00:33:41,085 I'm sorry. 828 00:33:41,085 --> 00:33:44,030 Go back to what you were saying that when you-- 829 00:33:44,030 --> 00:33:45,067 I mean, for me, it's every day. 830 00:33:45,067 --> 00:33:47,059 So I don't quite get it. 831 00:33:47,059 --> 00:33:48,065 But yeah, OK. 832 00:33:48,065 --> 00:33:49,091 He could do glass and metal. 833 00:33:49,091 --> 00:33:51,031 You couldn't do chains. 834 00:33:51,031 --> 00:33:52,097 But to meet him was a real honor for me 835 00:33:52,097 --> 00:33:55,083 because he was like a childhood hero for me. 836 00:33:55,083 --> 00:33:57,063 You must get this question all the time. 837 00:33:57,063 --> 00:33:58,013 Why? 838 00:33:58,013 --> 00:33:58,063 Why. 839 00:33:58,063 --> 00:34:00,023 I mean, it's different for everyone. 840 00:34:00,023 --> 00:34:01,056 Everyone has a different reason. 841 00:34:01,056 --> 00:34:02,065 Some just want fame. 842 00:34:02,065 --> 00:34:04,027 Some want to be in print. 843 00:34:04,027 --> 00:34:07,037 We do validate people that do things 844 00:34:07,037 --> 00:34:10,054 that others might seem a bit weird, 845 00:34:10,054 --> 00:34:12,078 like eating aircraft and stuff. 846 00:34:12,078 --> 00:34:15,086 Do you not see that as weird? 847 00:34:15,086 --> 00:34:20,029 I mean, I see it as really interesting. 848 00:34:20,029 --> 00:34:21,004 I got to tell you. 849 00:34:21,004 --> 00:34:23,034 I thought it would be a little crazier-- 850 00:34:23,034 --> 00:34:26,006 inside the company's London headquarters, 851 00:34:26,006 --> 00:34:29,046 Glenday keeps a cabinet of greatest hits. 852 00:34:29,046 --> 00:34:31,036 --as Craig's cabinet of curiosities. 853 00:34:31,036 --> 00:34:33,082 CECILIA VEGA (VOICEOVER): Like the world's smallest playing 854 00:34:33,082 --> 00:34:38,046 cards, and a giant size 29 shoe. 855 00:34:38,046 --> 00:34:41,042 I'm like the Vanna White of oddities here. 856 00:34:41,042 --> 00:34:42,030 What is this? 857 00:34:42,030 --> 00:34:45,002 If you have a little investigation of that, 858 00:34:45,002 --> 00:34:46,086 it's the world's oldest vomit. 859 00:34:46,086 --> 00:34:47,044 Vomit? 860 00:34:47,044 --> 00:34:48,022 Vomit. 861 00:34:48,022 --> 00:34:49,041 You got me on that one. 862 00:34:49,041 --> 00:34:50,074 CRAIG GLENDAY: It doesn't smell. 863 00:34:50,074 --> 00:34:52,002 It's obviously petrified. 864 00:34:52,002 --> 00:34:53,060 CECILIA VEGA (VOICEOVER): Not everyone 865 00:34:53,060 --> 00:34:55,002 chooses to break records. 866 00:34:55,002 --> 00:34:56,016 I'm 5'10. 867 00:34:56,016 --> 00:34:57,004 So what was she? 868 00:34:57,004 --> 00:34:59,034 She's just on 7 foot. 869 00:34:59,034 --> 00:35:01,078 The tallest and shortest people often 870 00:35:01,078 --> 00:35:03,084 have had genetic conditions. 871 00:35:03,084 --> 00:35:07,069 The woman with the longest fingernails, 43 feet, 872 00:35:07,069 --> 00:35:11,021 Hasn't cut them since her daughter, who painted her nails, 873 00:35:11,021 --> 00:35:13,083 passed away in 1997. 874 00:35:13,083 --> 00:35:15,013 So she still holds the record? 875 00:35:15,013 --> 00:35:16,009 Still has the record. 876 00:35:16,009 --> 00:35:18,043 And I think that's the longest ever measured. 877 00:35:18,043 --> 00:35:21,015 CECILIA VEGA: The idea for the book began during a hunting trip 878 00:35:21,015 --> 00:35:23,067 at this country estate in Ireland, 879 00:35:23,067 --> 00:35:25,075 where the manager of the Guinness Brewery 880 00:35:25,075 --> 00:35:29,015 got into an argument over who could name the fastest game 881 00:35:29,015 --> 00:35:30,071 bird in Europe. 882 00:35:30,071 --> 00:35:33,071 To settle future pub debates, he commissioned a book 883 00:35:33,071 --> 00:35:36,067 of superlatives, which eventually became the Guinness 884 00:35:36,067 --> 00:35:38,003 World Records. 885 00:35:38,003 --> 00:35:41,079 The first one was published in 1955. 886 00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:43,055 The initial reaction from the book trade 887 00:35:43,055 --> 00:35:45,001 was not that positive. 888 00:35:45,001 --> 00:35:46,099 And the first sales meeting ever, 889 00:35:46,099 --> 00:35:49,047 the salesperson wrote 6 on the slip. 890 00:35:49,047 --> 00:35:52,022 And they said, do you mean 6000, 600. 891 00:35:52,022 --> 00:35:52,093 He said, no, six. 892 00:35:52,093 --> 00:35:53,094 They just wanted six-- 893 00:35:53,094 --> 00:35:55,011 Six for the whole country. 894 00:35:55,011 --> 00:35:55,061 --copies? 895 00:35:55,061 --> 00:35:56,050 Yeah. 896 00:35:56,050 --> 00:35:58,029 By the end of the week, it was like 10,000. 897 00:35:58,029 --> 00:35:59,029 They sold out quickly. 898 00:35:59,029 --> 00:36:02,003 And it was just blew up. 899 00:36:02,003 --> 00:36:04,015 CECILIA VEGA: 70 years later, it's still 900 00:36:04,015 --> 00:36:06,014 a hit at school book fairs. 901 00:36:06,014 --> 00:36:08,096 But today, the name, Guinness World Records, 902 00:36:08,096 --> 00:36:13,060 is synonymous with viral stunts that become clickbait gold. 903 00:36:13,060 --> 00:36:15,034 Is Google your biggest competition? 904 00:36:15,034 --> 00:36:16,080 I could pull my phone out right now 905 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,042 and search the world's fastest bird. 906 00:36:18,042 --> 00:36:19,088 You might as well open the window 907 00:36:19,088 --> 00:36:21,076 and shout your question into the street. 908 00:36:21,076 --> 00:36:22,094 And you'll get an answer. 909 00:36:22,094 --> 00:36:23,014 Yeah. 910 00:36:23,014 --> 00:36:24,030 But is it the right one? 911 00:36:24,030 --> 00:36:28,033 Well, I can say I know Sultan Cousin's 8 foot 3 because I 912 00:36:28,033 --> 00:36:29,058 was there with a tape measure. 913 00:36:29,058 --> 00:36:30,056 I measured him. 914 00:36:30,056 --> 00:36:33,020 CECILIA VEGA: He's also measured the shortest person, who 915 00:36:33,020 --> 00:36:35,052 he learned about after a woodcutter passed 916 00:36:35,052 --> 00:36:37,068 through a remote village in Nepal 917 00:36:37,068 --> 00:36:41,004 and alerted the team at Guinness World Records. 918 00:36:41,004 --> 00:36:44,036 So it was confidence enough for me to then go to Nepal. 919 00:36:44,036 --> 00:36:47,006 You get on a flight and go to Nepal to measure this person? 920 00:36:47,006 --> 00:36:48,077 And we would never have known about him 921 00:36:48,077 --> 00:36:51,032 had that woodcutter not gone through the village that day 922 00:36:51,032 --> 00:36:54,060 and sent us the video footage. 923 00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:56,064 CECILIA VEGA: And then there are the rules. 924 00:36:56,064 --> 00:36:59,000 So rigid, they've sparked office debates 925 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,000 over who makes the cut for the largest gathering of people 926 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,069 dressed as Smurfs. 927 00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:06,029 So it's like, OK, well, what is 928 00:37:06,029 --> 00:37:10,031 this Smurf, what do they wear, do they all have blue skin. 929 00:37:10,031 --> 00:37:11,017 Yes. 930 00:37:11,017 --> 00:37:13,085 You might have to write guidelines 931 00:37:13,085 --> 00:37:15,047 for any possible topic. 932 00:37:15,047 --> 00:37:19,065 So we've got this huge big book of experts from archeologists-- 933 00:37:19,065 --> 00:37:20,065 CECILIA VEGA: To Smurfs. 934 00:37:20,065 --> 00:37:21,067 --to Smurf-ologists. 935 00:37:21,067 --> 00:37:23,021 Yeah, I don't know if that's a thing. 936 00:37:23,021 --> 00:37:25,053 But we've got a myrmecologist, which-- 937 00:37:25,053 --> 00:37:26,015 What is that? 938 00:37:26,015 --> 00:37:28,019 Myrmecologist, ant expert. 939 00:37:28,019 --> 00:37:31,061 So if we've got a question about what's the most dangerous ant-- 940 00:37:31,061 --> 00:37:33,094 Quick, get the myrmecologist on line 9. 941 00:37:33,094 --> 00:37:35,027 We've just found this big ant. 942 00:37:35,027 --> 00:37:36,053 Is it the biggest? 943 00:37:36,053 --> 00:37:39,061 CECILIA VEGA: For large events like the New Haven pizza party-- 944 00:37:39,061 --> 00:37:42,047 I am today's official Guinness World Records adjudicator. 945 00:37:42,047 --> 00:37:44,037 So I'm basically the judge. 946 00:37:44,037 --> 00:37:46,037 CECILIA VEGA: --Guinness World Records sometimes 947 00:37:46,037 --> 00:37:49,013 sends an adjudicator responsible for enforcing 948 00:37:49,013 --> 00:37:50,069 the rules from headquarters. 949 00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:53,019 If you're going to write how many people you disqualified, 950 00:37:53,019 --> 00:37:56,011 hopefully, that is a nice big round 0. 951 00:37:56,011 --> 00:37:57,061 CECILIA VEGA: Thomas Bradford is one 952 00:37:57,061 --> 00:38:03,002 of 81 adjudicators the company employs across six continents. 953 00:38:03,002 --> 00:38:05,074 His day job is as a performer at Disney. 954 00:38:05,074 --> 00:38:10,013 But when it's go time, he puts on his trademark blue jacket. 955 00:38:10,013 --> 00:38:11,050 The largest gathering of people 956 00:38:11,050 --> 00:38:14,031 dressed as dinosaurs was one of my favorite events. 957 00:38:14,031 --> 00:38:16,006 And you kind of expect people to just come 958 00:38:16,006 --> 00:38:18,042 in the classic inflatable t-rex costume. 959 00:38:18,042 --> 00:38:19,088 CECILIA VEGA: What do they come in? 960 00:38:19,088 --> 00:38:21,066 Diplodocus, triceratops. 961 00:38:21,066 --> 00:38:23,000 You name it, we had it. 962 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,004 CECILIA VEGA: Legit gear. 963 00:38:24,004 --> 00:38:24,066 THOMAS BRADFORD (VOICEOVER): Everything. 964 00:38:24,066 --> 00:38:26,099 I had to turn away people that were dressed as Godzilla, 965 00:38:26,099 --> 00:38:28,050 because Godzilla is not a dinosaur. 966 00:38:28,050 --> 00:38:31,048 How do you break it to a dinosaur in a bad costume 967 00:38:31,048 --> 00:38:32,060 that they don't qualify? 968 00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:35,024 You kind of just have to play the role. 969 00:38:35,024 --> 00:38:36,060 I think my accent helps. 970 00:38:36,060 --> 00:38:38,058 And there is a level of authority 971 00:38:38,058 --> 00:38:39,098 that comes with a British accent. 972 00:38:39,098 --> 00:38:40,077 School principal. 973 00:38:40,077 --> 00:38:42,013 THOMAS BRADFORD: Very much that. 974 00:38:42,013 --> 00:38:44,046 The largest pizza party is probably the most competitive 975 00:38:44,046 --> 00:38:46,016 record that I've ever been a part of. 976 00:38:46,016 --> 00:38:47,029 CECILIA VEGA: Is that true? 977 00:38:47,029 --> 00:38:49,036 I didn't think it would be as-- it's a lot. 978 00:38:49,036 --> 00:38:49,086 Yes. 979 00:38:49,086 --> 00:38:50,094 It's stressing you out? 980 00:38:50,094 --> 00:38:52,086 This is one of the most stressful record 981 00:38:52,086 --> 00:38:54,022 attempts I've had. 982 00:38:54,022 --> 00:38:58,050 CECILIA VEGA: Colin Kaplan needs 3358 people 983 00:38:58,050 --> 00:39:01,025 to show up in order to beat the current record. 984 00:39:01,025 --> 00:39:02,097 And you want to beat Tulsa. 985 00:39:02,097 --> 00:39:04,095 We're going to beat Tulsa, Oklahoma. 986 00:39:04,095 --> 00:39:07,007 CECILIA VEGA: Participants get 15 minutes 987 00:39:07,007 --> 00:39:10,091 to eat two slices of pizza and drink a bottle of water. 988 00:39:10,091 --> 00:39:12,075 But here's the catch-- 989 00:39:12,075 --> 00:39:16,003 they have to stay until the party is officially over. 990 00:39:16,003 --> 00:39:17,011 And-- 991 00:39:17,011 --> 00:39:19,013 They must eat the entire pizza. 992 00:39:19,013 --> 00:39:21,043 No one can leave their crusts. 993 00:39:21,043 --> 00:39:23,079 They have to eat the crust. 994 00:39:23,079 --> 00:39:27,031 CECILIA VEGA: What makes a pizza party like this so difficult? 995 00:39:27,031 --> 00:39:28,039 People. 996 00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:31,051 Yeah, it's-- you don't know if they're going to stay for 15 997 00:39:31,051 --> 00:39:32,001 minutes. 998 00:39:32,001 --> 00:39:35,003 They might wait for 14 and be like, I'm fine. 999 00:39:35,003 --> 00:39:37,055 You're disqualified if you leave after 14 minutes. 1000 00:39:37,055 --> 00:39:40,059 So the people is the toughest thing. 1001 00:39:40,059 --> 00:39:44,095 This official Guinness World Records attempt has begun! 1002 00:39:44,095 --> 00:39:46,075 [CHEERS, APPLAUSE] 1003 00:39:46,075 --> 00:39:49,027 CECILIA VEGA: At first, it was slow going. 1004 00:39:49,027 --> 00:39:51,001 What if not enough people show up, 1005 00:39:51,001 --> 00:39:52,049 or have you guys already counted? 1006 00:39:52,049 --> 00:39:58,056 But then in came the pizza obsessed college students. 1007 00:39:58,056 --> 00:40:02,060 Children, those in their finest pepperoni attire. 1008 00:40:02,060 --> 00:40:06,012 COLIN KAPLAN: Its 10,000 slices, which is 625 pizzas, 1009 00:40:06,012 --> 00:40:08,036 in about 3.5 hours. 1010 00:40:08,036 --> 00:40:11,080 CECILIA VEGA: Kaplan's pursuit of a record didn't come cheap. 1011 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,076 Brands and businesses chasing titles for marketing 1012 00:40:14,076 --> 00:40:16,076 must pay fees. 1013 00:40:16,076 --> 00:40:21,056 He said he paid nearly $30,000 and fundraised six figures 1014 00:40:21,056 --> 00:40:25,060 to cover all the costs, including eight ovens and all 1015 00:40:25,060 --> 00:40:27,084 that cheese. 1016 00:40:27,084 --> 00:40:28,084 There you are. 1017 00:40:28,084 --> 00:40:30,026 CECILIA VEGA: When Thomas Bradford 1018 00:40:30,026 --> 00:40:32,064 wasn't busy being a celebrity-- 1019 00:40:32,064 --> 00:40:34,008 Awesome! 1020 00:40:34,008 --> 00:40:36,052 CECILIA VEGA: --he and a group of 100 volunteers 1021 00:40:36,052 --> 00:40:37,086 kept the tally. 1022 00:40:37,086 --> 00:40:39,072 Only two didn't finish. 1023 00:40:39,072 --> 00:40:40,042 One left. 1024 00:40:40,042 --> 00:40:40,092 Perfect. 1025 00:40:40,092 --> 00:40:41,042 OK. 1026 00:40:41,042 --> 00:40:42,084 CECILIA VEGA: With an hour to go-- 1027 00:40:42,084 --> 00:40:44,051 It's going to go to the wire, I think. 1028 00:40:44,051 --> 00:40:45,056 It's going to be close. 1029 00:40:45,056 --> 00:40:47,019 CECILIA VEGA: --Kaplan was still trying 1030 00:40:47,019 --> 00:40:49,076 to make the pie calculations add up. 1031 00:40:49,076 --> 00:40:53,064 We could actually feed 1,800 people starting at 6 1032 00:40:53,064 --> 00:40:54,040 o'clock still. 1033 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,092 And that means that we could 100% beat the record and almost 1034 00:40:56,092 --> 00:40:58,077 get to 5,000. 1035 00:40:58,077 --> 00:41:00,029 CECILIA VEGA: So did they? 1036 00:41:00,029 --> 00:41:01,057 [CHEERS, APPLAUSE] 1037 00:41:01,057 --> 00:41:03,065 Finally, the verdict. 1038 00:41:03,065 --> 00:41:08,093 And now, New Haven is home to the world's largest pizza party. 1039 00:41:08,093 --> 00:41:13,089 CECILIA VEGA: 4525 people gathered for a new Guinness 1040 00:41:13,089 --> 00:41:15,057 World Record-- 1041 00:41:15,057 --> 00:41:17,089 Congratulations, New Haven. 1042 00:41:17,089 --> 00:41:21,085 You are all officially amazing. 1043 00:41:21,085 --> 00:41:24,077 CECILIA VEGA: --and a slice of history. 1044 00:41:24,077 --> 00:41:27,027 Human beings are innately the same everywhere. 1045 00:41:27,027 --> 00:41:28,089 They are really, because they're trying 1046 00:41:28,089 --> 00:41:32,025 to get through from birth to death and have as much fun 1047 00:41:32,025 --> 00:41:36,005 and enjoy life and get all the experiences that you can. 1048 00:41:36,005 --> 00:41:37,053 And we see this every day. 1049 00:41:37,053 --> 00:41:39,093 The world is full of these amazing, fun things 1050 00:41:39,093 --> 00:41:41,051 if you just look in the right place. 1051 00:41:50,009 --> 00:41:51,023 I'm Jon Wertheim. 1052 00:41:51,023 --> 00:41:52,031 Thanks for joining us. 1053 00:41:52,031 --> 00:41:57,054 We'll be back next week with an all new edition of 60 Minutes.