1 00:00:11,478 --> 00:00:12,000 >>> LITHUANIA'S CAPITAL IS CLOTHED IN THE COLORS OF UKRAINE. AND PUTIN IS REMINDED AN 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:18,000 >>> LITHUANIA'S CAPITAL IS CLOTHED IN THE COLORS OF UKRAINE. AND PUTIN IS REMINDED AN 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,487 >>> LITHUANIA'S CAPITAL IS CLOTHED IN THE COLORS OF UKRAINE. AND PUTIN IS REMINDED AN 4 00:00:20,553 --> 00:00:24,000 INTERNATIONAL COURT IS WAITING WITH HIS ARREST WARRANT. SINCE THE 2022 INVASION, LITHUANIA HAS BECOME A REFUGE 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,293 INTERNATIONAL COURT IS WAITING WITH HIS ARREST WARRANT. SINCE THE 2022 INVASION, LITHUANIA HAS BECOME A REFUGE 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,000 FOR PUTIN'S FIERCEST CRITICS. >> YOU WOULD BE IN A RUSSIAN PRISON JUST FOR DOING THIS INTERVIEW. 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,300 FOR PUTIN'S FIERCEST CRITICS. >> YOU WOULD BE IN A RUSSIAN PRISON JUST FOR DOING THIS INTERVIEW. 8 00:00:34,367 --> 00:00:36,000 >> OH, FOR SURE. FOR SURE. >>> IN 2022, NEARLY ONE MILLION AMERICANS, LIKE STEVEN AND BECKY 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:42,000 >> OH, FOR SURE. FOR SURE. >>> IN 2022, NEARLY ONE MILLION AMERICANS, LIKE STEVEN AND BECKY 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,878 >> OH, FOR SURE. FOR SURE. >>> IN 2022, NEARLY ONE MILLION AMERICANS, LIKE STEVEN AND BECKY 11 00:00:44,944 --> 00:00:48,000 SWORD, RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION SAYING THAT DUE TO A GOVERNMENT MISCALCULATION, 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,284 SWORD, RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION SAYING THAT DUE TO A GOVERNMENT MISCALCULATION, 13 00:00:51,351 --> 00:00:54,000 THEY OWED SOCIAL SECURITY MONEY, A LOT OF MONEY IN THEIR CASE, $51,887. THE SWORDS WERE ASKED TO REPAY 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:01:00,000 THEY OWED SOCIAL SECURITY MONEY, A LOT OF MONEY IN THEIR CASE, $51,887. THE SWORDS WERE ASKED TO REPAY 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:00,326 THEY OWED SOCIAL SECURITY MONEY, A LOT OF MONEY IN THEIR CASE, $51,887. THE SWORDS WERE ASKED TO REPAY 16 00:01:00,393 --> 00:01:05,732 IT WITHIN 30 DAYS. >> ARE YOU SCARED? >> HE'S THINKING WE'RE GOING TO LOSE OUR HOUSE. 17 00:01:05,799 --> 00:01:06,000 WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO? I MEAN, WE WERE VERY SCARED. >>> 168 COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA, HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:12,000 WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO? I MEAN, WE WERE VERY SCARED. >>> 168 COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA, HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,409 WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO? I MEAN, WE WERE VERY SCARED. >>> 168 COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA, HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE 20 00:01:16,476 --> 00:01:18,000 UNITED NATIONS LAW OF THE SEA, A TREATY THAT DIVVIES UP THE INTERNATIONAL SEABED FOR THE MINING OF PRECIOUS METAL, VITAL 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:24,000 UNITED NATIONS LAW OF THE SEA, A TREATY THAT DIVVIES UP THE INTERNATIONAL SEABED FOR THE MINING OF PRECIOUS METAL, VITAL 22 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:24,984 UNITED NATIONS LAW OF THE SEA, A TREATY THAT DIVVIES UP THE INTERNATIONAL SEABED FOR THE MINING OF PRECIOUS METAL, VITAL 23 00:01:25,051 --> 00:01:29,656 FOR EVERYTHING FROM ELECTRIC CARS TO DEFENSE SYSTEMS. ABSENT FROM THE TREATY, THE UNITED STATES. 24 00:01:29,722 --> 00:01:30,000 >> THE UNITED STATES PROBABLY HAS GOT THE MOST TO GAIN OF ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IF IT WERE PART OF THE LAW TO THE SEA 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:36,000 >> THE UNITED STATES PROBABLY HAS GOT THE MOST TO GAIN OF ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IF IT WERE PART OF THE LAW TO THE SEA 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,498 >> THE UNITED STATES PROBABLY HAS GOT THE MOST TO GAIN OF ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IF IT WERE PART OF THE LAW TO THE SEA 27 00:01:38,565 --> 00:01:42,000 CONVENTION. AND CONVERSELY, WE PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE BY NOT BEING PART OF IT. 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:42,769 CONVENTION. AND CONVERSELY, WE PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE BY NOT BEING PART OF IT. 29 00:01:42,836 --> 00:01:48,000 >> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:48,608 >> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. 31 00:01:48,675 --> 00:01:52,912 >> I'M JON WERTHEIM. >> I'M CECILIA VEGA. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES TONIGHT ON "60 32 00:01:52,979 --> 00:01:54,000 MINUTES." >>> 71-YEAR-OLD VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS NOW LED RUSSIA FOR 24 YEARS. IF HE SERVES OUT THE 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:02:00,000 MINUTES." >>> 71-YEAR-OLD VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS NOW LED RUSSIA FOR 24 YEARS. IF HE SERVES OUT THE 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:06,000 MINUTES." >>> 71-YEAR-OLD VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS NOW LED RUSSIA FOR 24 YEARS. IF HE SERVES OUT THE 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,431 MINUTES." >>> 71-YEAR-OLD VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS NOW LED RUSSIA FOR 24 YEARS. IF HE SERVES OUT THE 36 00:02:11,498 --> 00:02:12,000 PRESIDENTIAL TERM HE WON THIS YEAR, HE WILL BE IN POWER AS LONG AS SOVIET DICTATOR JOSEPH STALIN. 37 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:18,000 PRESIDENTIAL TERM HE WON THIS YEAR, HE WILL BE IN POWER AS LONG AS SOVIET DICTATOR JOSEPH STALIN. 38 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,939 PRESIDENTIAL TERM HE WON THIS YEAR, HE WILL BE IN POWER AS LONG AS SOVIET DICTATOR JOSEPH STALIN. 39 00:02:20,006 --> 00:02:24,000 PUTIN'S CHALLENGERS OFTEN MEET UNTIMELY ENDS, ONE AFTER AN EXPLOSION ON A PLANE, AND ALEXEI NAVALNY, PUTIN'S LEADING RIVAL, 40 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,582 PUTIN'S CHALLENGERS OFTEN MEET UNTIMELY ENDS, ONE AFTER AN EXPLOSION ON A PLANE, AND ALEXEI NAVALNY, PUTIN'S LEADING RIVAL, 41 00:02:29,649 --> 00:02:30,000 WHO DIED IN FEBRUARY IN AN ARCTIC PRISON CAMP. PUTIN HAS ALSO KILLED NEARLY ALL INTERNAL OPPOSITION TO HIS 42 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:36,000 WHO DIED IN FEBRUARY IN AN ARCTIC PRISON CAMP. PUTIN HAS ALSO KILLED NEARLY ALL INTERNAL OPPOSITION TO HIS 43 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,091 WHO DIED IN FEBRUARY IN AN ARCTIC PRISON CAMP. PUTIN HAS ALSO KILLED NEARLY ALL INTERNAL OPPOSITION TO HIS 44 00:02:38,157 --> 00:02:42,000 UNPROVOKED WAR IN UKRAINE. AND YET, MANY COURAGEOUS RUSSIANS CONTINUE THE STRUGGLE OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY. 45 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,199 UNPROVOKED WAR IN UKRAINE. AND YET, MANY COURAGEOUS RUSSIANS CONTINUE THE STRUGGLE OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY. 46 00:02:46,266 --> 00:02:48,000 AS WE FIRST REPORTED IN MARCH, WE MET SOME OF THEM IN A CITY THAT YOU MIGHT THINK OF AS THE CAPITAL OF FREE RUSSIA. 47 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:54,000 AS WE FIRST REPORTED IN MARCH, WE MET SOME OF THEM IN A CITY THAT YOU MIGHT THINK OF AS THE CAPITAL OF FREE RUSSIA. 48 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,408 AS WE FIRST REPORTED IN MARCH, WE MET SOME OF THEM IN A CITY THAT YOU MIGHT THINK OF AS THE CAPITAL OF FREE RUSSIA. 49 00:02:55,475 --> 00:03:00,000 >> IT'S 500 MILES WEST OF MOSCOW, THE CITY OF VILNIUS, IN LITHUANIA, WHERE THERE'S NO LOVE LOST FOR RUSSIA. 50 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:06,000 >> IT'S 500 MILES WEST OF MOSCOW, THE CITY OF VILNIUS, IN LITHUANIA, WHERE THERE'S NO LOVE LOST FOR RUSSIA. 51 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:06,586 >> IT'S 500 MILES WEST OF MOSCOW, THE CITY OF VILNIUS, IN LITHUANIA, WHERE THERE'S NO LOVE LOST FOR RUSSIA. 52 00:03:06,653 --> 00:03:12,000 LITHUANIA IS A DEMOCRACY OF ABOUT 3 MILLION PEOPLE AND A NATO ALLY. VILNIUS, THE CAPITAL, IS CLOTHED 53 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,660 LITHUANIA IS A DEMOCRACY OF ABOUT 3 MILLION PEOPLE AND A NATO ALLY. VILNIUS, THE CAPITAL, IS CLOTHED 54 00:03:13,726 --> 00:03:18,000 IN THE COLORS OF UKRAINE. THE CITY CHANGED THE RUSSIAN EMBASSY'S ADDRESS TO HEROES OF UKRAINE STREET, AND PUTIN IS 55 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:24,000 IN THE COLORS OF UKRAINE. THE CITY CHANGED THE RUSSIAN EMBASSY'S ADDRESS TO HEROES OF UKRAINE STREET, AND PUTIN IS 56 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:30,000 IN THE COLORS OF UKRAINE. THE CITY CHANGED THE RUSSIAN EMBASSY'S ADDRESS TO HEROES OF UKRAINE STREET, AND PUTIN IS 57 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:30,944 IN THE COLORS OF UKRAINE. THE CITY CHANGED THE RUSSIAN EMBASSY'S ADDRESS TO HEROES OF UKRAINE STREET, AND PUTIN IS 58 00:03:31,010 --> 00:03:35,181 REMINDED THE INTERNATIONAL PORT IN THE HAGUE IS WAITING WITH HIS ARREST WARRANT. SINCE PUTIN'S 2022 INVASION, 59 00:03:35,248 --> 00:03:36,000 LITHUANIA HAS WELCOMED MORE THAN 2,500 RUSSIAN EXILES. >> IT IS OUR POLICY TO PROVIDE SHELTER TO ALL FREEDOM FIGHTERS. 60 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:42,000 LITHUANIA HAS WELCOMED MORE THAN 2,500 RUSSIAN EXILES. >> IT IS OUR POLICY TO PROVIDE SHELTER TO ALL FREEDOM FIGHTERS. 61 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,326 LITHUANIA HAS WELCOMED MORE THAN 2,500 RUSSIAN EXILES. >> IT IS OUR POLICY TO PROVIDE SHELTER TO ALL FREEDOM FIGHTERS. 62 00:03:46,392 --> 00:03:48,000 >> MONTAS ADOMENAS SERVED AS LITHUANIA'S DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER FROM 2020 UNTIL LAST AUGUST. 63 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,666 >> MONTAS ADOMENAS SERVED AS LITHUANIA'S DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER FROM 2020 UNTIL LAST AUGUST. 64 00:03:53,733 --> 00:03:54,000 >> I HAVEN'T SEEN SO MANY UKRAINIAN FLAGS SINCE I WAS IN KYIV. WHY DO YOUR PEOPLE FEEL SO 65 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,538 >> I HAVEN'T SEEN SO MANY UKRAINIAN FLAGS SINCE I WAS IN KYIV. WHY DO YOUR PEOPLE FEEL SO 66 00:03:58,605 --> 00:04:00,000 SRONGLY ABOUT THIS? >> OUR FREEDOM, OUR INDEPENDENCE, OUR, SORT OF, SECURITY IS BEING DEFENDED IN 67 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:06,000 SRONGLY ABOUT THIS? >> OUR FREEDOM, OUR INDEPENDENCE, OUR, SORT OF, SECURITY IS BEING DEFENDED IN 68 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,113 SRONGLY ABOUT THIS? >> OUR FREEDOM, OUR INDEPENDENCE, OUR, SORT OF, SECURITY IS BEING DEFENDED IN 69 00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:12,000 THE BATTLEFIELDS IN UKRAINE. UKRAINIANS ARE DYING SO THAT WE CAN BE SAFE. >> THERE ARE MANY MORE RUSSIAN 70 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:18,000 THE BATTLEFIELDS IN UKRAINE. UKRAINIANS ARE DYING SO THAT WE CAN BE SAFE. >> THERE ARE MANY MORE RUSSIAN 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,728 THE BATTLEFIELDS IN UKRAINE. UKRAINIANS ARE DYING SO THAT WE CAN BE SAFE. >> THERE ARE MANY MORE RUSSIAN 72 00:04:21,794 --> 00:04:24,000 DISSIDENTS WHO WOULD LOVE TO COME TO LITHUANIA. CAN YOU ACCEPT ANY MORE? >> OF COURSE WE CAN ACCEPT. 73 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,767 DISSIDENTS WHO WOULD LOVE TO COME TO LITHUANIA. CAN YOU ACCEPT ANY MORE? >> OF COURSE WE CAN ACCEPT. 74 00:04:27,834 --> 00:04:30,000 WE WILL PROVIDE THEM ACCOMMODATIONS AS NEEDED, AND WORK FOR THE FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY IN RUSSIA. 75 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:36,000 WE WILL PROVIDE THEM ACCOMMODATIONS AS NEEDED, AND WORK FOR THE FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY IN RUSSIA. 76 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,611 WE WILL PROVIDE THEM ACCOMMODATIONS AS NEEDED, AND WORK FOR THE FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY IN RUSSIA. 77 00:04:38,678 --> 00:04:42,000 >> ONE OF THE RUSSIAN EXILES IN LITHUANIA WORKING FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY IS A CRUSADING MOM. 78 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:42,615 >> ONE OF THE RUSSIAN EXILES IN LITHUANIA WORKING FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY IS A CRUSADING MOM. 79 00:04:42,682 --> 00:04:48,000 TWO YEARS AGO, ANASTASIA SHEVCHENKO FLED PUTIN'S REGIME. >> THIS IS A TERRORIST REGIME. THEY ARE THREATENING OTHER 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:48,488 TWO YEARS AGO, ANASTASIA SHEVCHENKO FLED PUTIN'S REGIME. >> THIS IS A TERRORIST REGIME. THEY ARE THREATENING OTHER 81 00:04:48,554 --> 00:04:54,000 COUNTRIES WITH OIL, GAS, NUCLEAR WEAPON, AND GRAIN. THEY'RE THREATENING US WITH OUR CHILDREN, WITH OUR PARENTS, WITH 82 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,396 COUNTRIES WITH OIL, GAS, NUCLEAR WEAPON, AND GRAIN. THEY'RE THREATENING US WITH OUR CHILDREN, WITH OUR PARENTS, WITH 83 00:04:56,462 --> 00:05:00,000 OUR LIVES, AND SO ON. >> MORE THAN ANYTHING, IT WAS HER DAUGHTER, ALINA, SEVERELY DISABLED AT BIRTH, THAT MADE 84 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,805 OUR LIVES, AND SO ON. >> MORE THAN ANYTHING, IT WAS HER DAUGHTER, ALINA, SEVERELY DISABLED AT BIRTH, THAT MADE 85 00:05:05,872 --> 00:05:06,000 SHEVCHENKO AN ACTIVIST AGAINST PUTIN. BACK THEN, THE FAMILY WAS IN SOUTHERN RUSSIA, AND ALINA WAS 86 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,243 SHEVCHENKO AN ACTIVIST AGAINST PUTIN. BACK THEN, THE FAMILY WAS IN SOUTHERN RUSSIA, AND ALINA WAS 87 00:05:10,309 --> 00:05:12,000 IN A RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT NURSING HOME. >> ALINA COULD NOT SPEAK, COULD NOT COMMUNICATE. 88 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:17,116 IN A RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT NURSING HOME. >> ALINA COULD NOT SPEAK, COULD NOT COMMUNICATE. 89 00:05:17,183 --> 00:05:18,000 >> NO. SHE WAS, LIKE, ONE WEAK CHILD, LIKE A BABY. SHE WAS 17, BUT EVEN, YOU KNOW, 90 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:24,000 >> NO. SHE WAS, LIKE, ONE WEAK CHILD, LIKE A BABY. SHE WAS 17, BUT EVEN, YOU KNOW, 91 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:30,000 >> NO. SHE WAS, LIKE, ONE WEAK CHILD, LIKE A BABY. SHE WAS 17, BUT EVEN, YOU KNOW, 92 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:30,430 >> NO. SHE WAS, LIKE, ONE WEAK CHILD, LIKE A BABY. SHE WAS 17, BUT EVEN, YOU KNOW, 93 00:05:30,496 --> 00:05:34,567 TO FEEL HER, IT WAS A WHOLE SCIENCE BECAUSE SHE NEEDED BLENDED FOOD. YOU NEED TO HOLD HER IN SPECIAL 94 00:05:34,634 --> 00:05:36,000 POSITION. >> SHEVCHENKO CARED FOR ALINA MUCH OF THE TIME BECAUSE THE RUSSIAN NURSING FACILITY WAS 95 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:42,000 POSITION. >> SHEVCHENKO CARED FOR ALINA MUCH OF THE TIME BECAUSE THE RUSSIAN NURSING FACILITY WAS 96 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,043 POSITION. >> SHEVCHENKO CARED FOR ALINA MUCH OF THE TIME BECAUSE THE RUSSIAN NURSING FACILITY WAS 97 00:05:44,110 --> 00:05:48,000 SHORT ON STAFF AND SUPPLIES. >> I WAS STRUGGLING TO GET MEDICATION FOR MY DAUGHTER, BEGGING IN THE PHARMACY THAT SHE 98 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:53,219 SHORT ON STAFF AND SUPPLIES. >> I WAS STRUGGLING TO GET MEDICATION FOR MY DAUGHTER, BEGGING IN THE PHARMACY THAT SHE 99 00:05:53,286 --> 00:05:54,000 NEEDED IT. IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR HER HEALTH. THEY SAID, NO, WE JUST DON'T 100 00:05:54,000 --> 00:06:00,000 NEEDED IT. IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR HER HEALTH. THEY SAID, NO, WE JUST DON'T 101 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,194 NEEDED IT. IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR HER HEALTH. THEY SAID, NO, WE JUST DON'T 102 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:06,000 HAVE IT BECAUSE THE MINISTRY FORGOT TO ORDER IT THIS MONTH. AND YOU NEED TO WAIT. I DECIDED, I'M NOT GOING TO KEEP 103 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:12,000 HAVE IT BECAUSE THE MINISTRY FORGOT TO ORDER IT THIS MONTH. AND YOU NEED TO WAIT. I DECIDED, I'M NOT GOING TO KEEP 104 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:12,638 HAVE IT BECAUSE THE MINISTRY FORGOT TO ORDER IT THIS MONTH. AND YOU NEED TO WAIT. I DECIDED, I'M NOT GOING TO KEEP 105 00:06:12,705 --> 00:06:18,000 SILENT AND, YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO STAND OUT AND SPEAK OUT. >> SHE SPOKE OUT THROUGH A RUSSIAN DEMOCRACY GROUP CALLED 106 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:18,478 SILENT AND, YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO STAND OUT AND SPEAK OUT. >> SHE SPOKE OUT THROUGH A RUSSIAN DEMOCRACY GROUP CALLED 107 00:06:18,544 --> 00:06:24,000 "OPEN RUSSIA." IT WAS TOLERATED TEN YEARS AGO, AND SHEVCHENKO ORGANIZED PROTESTS IN HER HOMETOWN. 108 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,752 "OPEN RUSSIA." IT WAS TOLERATED TEN YEARS AGO, AND SHEVCHENKO ORGANIZED PROTESTS IN HER HOMETOWN. 109 00:06:25,818 --> 00:06:30,000 BUT IN 2019, THE KREMLIN CRACKED DOWN. SHEVCHENKO WAS ARRESTED, AND HER LAWYER WARNED HER SHE WOULD BE 110 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,860 BUT IN 2019, THE KREMLIN CRACKED DOWN. SHEVCHENKO WAS ARRESTED, AND HER LAWYER WARNED HER SHE WOULD BE 111 00:06:33,926 --> 00:06:36,000 SHOCKED BY WHAT THE POLICE HAD ALREADY DONE. >> HE SHOWED ME THE SCREEN SHOTS OF ME IN MY BED. 112 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:42,000 SHOCKED BY WHAT THE POLICE HAD ALREADY DONE. >> HE SHOWED ME THE SCREEN SHOTS OF ME IN MY BED. 113 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,103 SHOCKED BY WHAT THE POLICE HAD ALREADY DONE. >> HE SHOWED ME THE SCREEN SHOTS OF ME IN MY BED. 114 00:06:44,170 --> 00:06:48,000 AND I REALIZED THAT THEY HAD INSTALLED THE VIDEO CAMERA INTO THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT ABOVE MY BED. 115 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,210 AND I REALIZED THAT THEY HAD INSTALLED THE VIDEO CAMERA INTO THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT ABOVE MY BED. 116 00:06:51,277 --> 00:06:54,000 AND THEY HAVE BEEN WATCHING ME FOR SIX MONTHS IN MY BEDROOM. >> A RUSSIAN COURT ORDERED SHEVCHENKO INTO HOUSE ARREST. 117 00:06:54,000 --> 00:07:00,000 AND THEY HAVE BEEN WATCHING ME FOR SIX MONTHS IN MY BEDROOM. >> A RUSSIAN COURT ORDERED SHEVCHENKO INTO HOUSE ARREST. 118 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:00,253 AND THEY HAVE BEEN WATCHING ME FOR SIX MONTHS IN MY BEDROOM. >> A RUSSIAN COURT ORDERED SHEVCHENKO INTO HOUSE ARREST. 119 00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:05,057 SHE COULDN'T VISIT OR CARE FOR ALINA. IT WASN'T LONG BEFORE HER DAUGHTER DEVELOPED PNEUMONIA. 120 00:07:05,124 --> 00:07:06,000 BY THE TIME A JUDGE GRANTED SHEVCHENKO A PASS TO THE HOSPITAL, ALINA WAS UNCONSCIOUS. >> I SPENT MAYBE TEN MINUTES 121 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:12,000 BY THE TIME A JUDGE GRANTED SHEVCHENKO A PASS TO THE HOSPITAL, ALINA WAS UNCONSCIOUS. >> I SPENT MAYBE TEN MINUTES 122 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,101 BY THE TIME A JUDGE GRANTED SHEVCHENKO A PASS TO THE HOSPITAL, ALINA WAS UNCONSCIOUS. >> I SPENT MAYBE TEN MINUTES 123 00:07:15,168 --> 00:07:18,000 HOLDING HER HAND BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I DO WHEN MY CHILDREN ARE ILL. WHEN YOU HOLD THEIR HAND, THEY 124 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:24,000 HOLDING HER HAND BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I DO WHEN MY CHILDREN ARE ILL. WHEN YOU HOLD THEIR HAND, THEY 125 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:24,076 HOLDING HER HAND BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I DO WHEN MY CHILDREN ARE ILL. WHEN YOU HOLD THEIR HAND, THEY 126 00:07:24,143 --> 00:07:30,000 FEEL BETTER. BUT THIS TIME, SHE WAS COLD. SHE DIDN'T FEEL ME. AND SHE DIED IN AN HOUR. 127 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:30,449 FEEL BETTER. BUT THIS TIME, SHE WAS COLD. SHE DIDN'T FEEL ME. AND SHE DIED IN AN HOUR. 128 00:07:30,516 --> 00:07:36,000 >> IN 2021, SHEVCHENKO WAS GIVEN A FOUR-YEAR SUSPENDED SENTENCE. BUT WHEN PUTIN INVADED UKRAINE THE NEXT YEAR, SHE DECIDED TO 129 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:41,561 >> IN 2021, SHEVCHENKO WAS GIVEN A FOUR-YEAR SUSPENDED SENTENCE. BUT WHEN PUTIN INVADED UKRAINE THE NEXT YEAR, SHE DECIDED TO 130 00:07:41,627 --> 00:07:42,000 FLEE RUSSIA. FROM HER SOUTHERN CITY, SHE TOOK HER TWO SURVIVING CHILDREN ON AN 1,100-MILE DRIVE. 131 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:48,000 FLEE RUSSIA. FROM HER SOUTHERN CITY, SHE TOOK HER TWO SURVIVING CHILDREN ON AN 1,100-MILE DRIVE. 132 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,936 FLEE RUSSIA. FROM HER SOUTHERN CITY, SHE TOOK HER TWO SURVIVING CHILDREN ON AN 1,100-MILE DRIVE. 133 00:07:50,002 --> 00:07:54,000 A U.S.-BASED DEMOCRACY GROUP ARRANGED LITHUANIAN VISAS. >> WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ABOUT RUSSIA TODAY? 134 00:07:54,000 --> 00:08:00,000 A U.S.-BASED DEMOCRACY GROUP ARRANGED LITHUANIAN VISAS. >> WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ABOUT RUSSIA TODAY? 135 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,981 A U.S.-BASED DEMOCRACY GROUP ARRANGED LITHUANIAN VISAS. >> WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ABOUT RUSSIA TODAY? 136 00:08:02,048 --> 00:08:06,000 >> IT'S ENOUGH TO WRITE SOMETHING ON SOCIAL MEDIA. JUST ONE SENTENCE AND YOU CAN BE IMPRISONED FOR YEARS. 137 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,086 >> IT'S ENOUGH TO WRITE SOMETHING ON SOCIAL MEDIA. JUST ONE SENTENCE AND YOU CAN BE IMPRISONED FOR YEARS. 138 00:08:07,153 --> 00:08:12,000 THEY ARE LISTENING TO YOUR PHONE CALLS. THEY'RE WATCHING YOU IN YOUR BEDROOM. 139 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,926 THEY ARE LISTENING TO YOUR PHONE CALLS. THEY'RE WATCHING YOU IN YOUR BEDROOM. 140 00:08:13,993 --> 00:08:18,000 THEY'RE CONTROLLING YOU. >> BREAKING THAT CONTROL IS WHY SERGEI DAVIDAS ALSO LEFT RUSSIA FOR LITHUANIA IN 2022. 141 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,833 THEY'RE CONTROLLING YOU. >> BREAKING THAT CONTROL IS WHY SERGEI DAVIDAS ALSO LEFT RUSSIA FOR LITHUANIA IN 2022. 142 00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:24,000 >> YOU WOULD BE IN A RUSSIAN PRISON JUST FOR DOING THIS INTERVIEW. >> OH, FOR SURE. 143 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,005 >> YOU WOULD BE IN A RUSSIAN PRISON JUST FOR DOING THIS INTERVIEW. >> OH, FOR SURE. 144 00:08:26,072 --> 00:08:30,000 FOR SURE. >> IN MOSCOW, DAVIDAS HELPED LEAD ONE OF RUSSIA'S LARGEST HUMAN RIGHTS GROUPS, CALLED 145 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,045 FOR SURE. >> IN MOSCOW, DAVIDAS HELPED LEAD ONE OF RUSSIA'S LARGEST HUMAN RIGHTS GROUPS, CALLED 146 00:08:33,112 --> 00:08:36,000 MEMORIAL. IT WON THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE TWO YEARS AGO. BUT NOW IT'S BANNED. 147 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:41,487 MEMORIAL. IT WON THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE TWO YEARS AGO. BUT NOW IT'S BANNED. 148 00:08:41,554 --> 00:08:42,000 HE TOLD US -- ALMOST EVERY DAY, THERE ARE MORE AND MORE ARRESTS. WE HEAR NEWS ABOUT NEW POLITICAL 149 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:48,000 HE TOLD US -- ALMOST EVERY DAY, THERE ARE MORE AND MORE ARRESTS. WE HEAR NEWS ABOUT NEW POLITICAL 150 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:54,000 HE TOLD US -- ALMOST EVERY DAY, THERE ARE MORE AND MORE ARRESTS. WE HEAR NEWS ABOUT NEW POLITICAL 151 00:08:54,066 --> 00:09:00,000 ARRESTS. AND APART FROM THE LEGAL SIDE OF IT, MORE OFTEN THAN BEFORE, THERE'S VIOLENCE AND TORTURE. 152 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:00,339 ARRESTS. AND APART FROM THE LEGAL SIDE OF IT, MORE OFTEN THAN BEFORE, THERE'S VIOLENCE AND TORTURE. 153 00:09:00,406 --> 00:09:06,000 DAVIDAS HEADS MEMORIAL'S PROJECT TO SUPPORT POLITICAL PRISONERS. HE TOLD US HE HAS CONFIRMED 680 IMPRISONED TODAY, BUT HE 154 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,882 DAVIDAS HEADS MEMORIAL'S PROJECT TO SUPPORT POLITICAL PRISONERS. HE TOLD US HE HAS CONFIRMED 680 IMPRISONED TODAY, BUT HE 155 00:09:09,949 --> 00:09:12,000 BELIEVES THE ACTUAL NUMBER IS MULTIPLES OF THAT. SINCE 2022, RUSSIANS CAN BE SENTENCED TO 15 YEARS JUST FOR 156 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:18,000 BELIEVES THE ACTUAL NUMBER IS MULTIPLES OF THAT. SINCE 2022, RUSSIANS CAN BE SENTENCED TO 15 YEARS JUST FOR 157 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:18,925 BELIEVES THE ACTUAL NUMBER IS MULTIPLES OF THAT. SINCE 2022, RUSSIANS CAN BE SENTENCED TO 15 YEARS JUST FOR 158 00:09:18,991 --> 00:09:24,000 CRITICIZING THE WAR ON THE STREET OR IN THE MEDIA. [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] 159 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,832 CRITICIZING THE WAR ON THE STREET OR IN THE MEDIA. [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] 160 00:09:26,899 --> 00:09:30,000 "ONE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE WAR," HE SAYS, "WAS A COMPLETE WIPEOUT OF INDEPENDENT MASS MEDIA, A PROHIBITION OF ANY 161 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:36,000 "ONE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE WAR," HE SAYS, "WAS A COMPLETE WIPEOUT OF INDEPENDENT MASS MEDIA, A PROHIBITION OF ANY 162 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,044 "ONE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE WAR," HE SAYS, "WAS A COMPLETE WIPEOUT OF INDEPENDENT MASS MEDIA, A PROHIBITION OF ANY 163 00:09:38,110 --> 00:09:42,000 OPINION THAT'S NOT UNDER CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT." INDEPENDENT NEWSROOMS IN RUSSIA HAVE BEEN FORCED TO CLOSE. 164 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,784 OPINION THAT'S NOT UNDER CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT." INDEPENDENT NEWSROOMS IN RUSSIA HAVE BEEN FORCED TO CLOSE. 165 00:09:44,850 --> 00:09:48,000 GOVERNMENT-CONTROLLED NEWSCASTS REPORT ONLY THE ABSURD LIE THAT THE WAR IS SELF-DEFENSE AGAINST NAZIS. 166 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,992 GOVERNMENT-CONTROLLED NEWSCASTS REPORT ONLY THE ABSURD LIE THAT THE WAR IS SELF-DEFENSE AGAINST NAZIS. 167 00:09:53,059 --> 00:09:54,000 THIS HOST SAYS -- [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] "WE ARE ON THE SIDE OF GOOD, 168 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,000 THIS HOST SAYS -- [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] "WE ARE ON THE SIDE OF GOOD, 169 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,068 THIS HOST SAYS -- [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] "WE ARE ON THE SIDE OF GOOD, 170 00:10:02,134 --> 00:10:06,000 AGAINST THE FORCES OF ABSOLUTE EVIL EMBODIED BY THE UKRAINIAN NAZI BATTALIONS." >> PEOPLE ARE SCARED, SO THEY 171 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,076 AGAINST THE FORCES OF ABSOLUTE EVIL EMBODIED BY THE UKRAINIAN NAZI BATTALIONS." >> PEOPLE ARE SCARED, SO THEY 172 00:10:10,142 --> 00:10:12,000 FEEL LONELY. THEY FEEL TERRIBLY LONELY. >> TATYANA FELGENHAUER AND ALEXANDER PLYUSCHEV WERE TALK 173 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:18,000 FEEL LONELY. THEY FEEL TERRIBLY LONELY. >> TATYANA FELGENHAUER AND ALEXANDER PLYUSCHEV WERE TALK 174 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,920 FEEL LONELY. THEY FEEL TERRIBLY LONELY. >> TATYANA FELGENHAUER AND ALEXANDER PLYUSCHEV WERE TALK 175 00:10:20,987 --> 00:10:24,000 RADIO HOSTS ON A PROMINENT MOSCOW STATION. THEY WERE ALLOWED TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS UNTIL THE DAY PUTIN 176 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:30,000 RADIO HOSTS ON A PROMINENT MOSCOW STATION. THEY WERE ALLOWED TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS UNTIL THE DAY PUTIN 177 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:30,062 RADIO HOSTS ON A PROMINENT MOSCOW STATION. THEY WERE ALLOWED TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS UNTIL THE DAY PUTIN 178 00:10:30,129 --> 00:10:36,000 LAUNCHED HIS WAR. >> IT WAS MY MORNING SHOW. I SAID, IT'S HALF PAST 6:00 IN THE MORNING. 179 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,369 LAUNCHED HIS WAR. >> IT WAS MY MORNING SHOW. I SAID, IT'S HALF PAST 6:00 IN THE MORNING. 180 00:10:36,435 --> 00:10:42,000 WAR BEGAN. >> WAR BEGAN, AND WITHIN TWO WEEKS, THEIR STATION WAS FORCED TO CLOSE. 181 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,310 WAR BEGAN. >> WAR BEGAN, AND WITHIN TWO WEEKS, THEIR STATION WAS FORCED TO CLOSE. 182 00:10:44,377 --> 00:10:48,000 NOW, PLYUSCHEV AND FELGENHAUER ARE IN VILNIUS STREAMING DAILY INTO RUSSIA ON YOUTUBE. PUTIN SILENCED FACEBOOK, X, AND 183 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:54,000 NOW, PLYUSCHEV AND FELGENHAUER ARE IN VILNIUS STREAMING DAILY INTO RUSSIA ON YOUTUBE. PUTIN SILENCED FACEBOOK, X, AND 184 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,322 NOW, PLYUSCHEV AND FELGENHAUER ARE IN VILNIUS STREAMING DAILY INTO RUSSIA ON YOUTUBE. PUTIN SILENCED FACEBOOK, X, AND 185 00:10:56,389 --> 00:11:00,000 INSTAGRAM, BUT YOUTUBE MAY BE TOO POPULAR FOR THE KREMLIN TO BLOCK SO FAR. >> THIS IS THE ONLY CHANCE TO 186 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:06,000 INSTAGRAM, BUT YOUTUBE MAY BE TOO POPULAR FOR THE KREMLIN TO BLOCK SO FAR. >> THIS IS THE ONLY CHANCE TO 187 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:06,132 INSTAGRAM, BUT YOUTUBE MAY BE TOO POPULAR FOR THE KREMLIN TO BLOCK SO FAR. >> THIS IS THE ONLY CHANCE TO 188 00:11:06,198 --> 00:11:12,000 TALK ABOUT THE WAR HONESTLY BECAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TRIES TO CREATE THIS FEELING THAT YOU ARE COMPLETELY ALONE IF YOU ARE 189 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,409 TALK ABOUT THE WAR HONESTLY BECAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TRIES TO CREATE THIS FEELING THAT YOU ARE COMPLETELY ALONE IF YOU ARE 190 00:11:16,475 --> 00:11:18,000 AGAINST THE WAR. >> WHY DOES THIS MEAN SO MUCH TO YOU? >> REALLY I WOULD HATE MYSELF IF 191 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:24,000 AGAINST THE WAR. >> WHY DOES THIS MEAN SO MUCH TO YOU? >> REALLY I WOULD HATE MYSELF IF 192 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,951 AGAINST THE WAR. >> WHY DOES THIS MEAN SO MUCH TO YOU? >> REALLY I WOULD HATE MYSELF IF 193 00:11:26,018 --> 00:11:30,000 I'M SILENT OR PRETENDING THAT EVERYTHING IS OKAY. >> IF RUSSIAN RADIO AND TV STATIONS ARE ALLOWED ONLY 194 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:36,000 I'M SILENT OR PRETENDING THAT EVERYTHING IS OKAY. >> IF RUSSIAN RADIO AND TV STATIONS ARE ALLOWED ONLY 195 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:36,062 I'M SILENT OR PRETENDING THAT EVERYTHING IS OKAY. >> IF RUSSIAN RADIO AND TV STATIONS ARE ALLOWED ONLY 196 00:11:36,128 --> 00:11:42,000 KREMLIN TALKING POINTS, WE SAW A LITHUANIAN STATION TELLING THE TRUTH, NOT ON A CHANNEL, BUT ON PLATFORM NUMBER 5 TO A CAPTIVE 197 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,105 KREMLIN TALKING POINTS, WE SAW A LITHUANIAN STATION TELLING THE TRUTH, NOT ON A CHANNEL, BUT ON PLATFORM NUMBER 5 TO A CAPTIVE 198 00:11:46,172 --> 00:11:48,000 RUSSIAN AUDIENCE. BECAUSE PART OF RUSSIA, KALININGRAD, ON THE LEFT, IS SEPARATE, LIKE ALASKA FROM THE 199 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:54,000 RUSSIAN AUDIENCE. BECAUSE PART OF RUSSIA, KALININGRAD, ON THE LEFT, IS SEPARATE, LIKE ALASKA FROM THE 200 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,382 RUSSIAN AUDIENCE. BECAUSE PART OF RUSSIA, KALININGRAD, ON THE LEFT, IS SEPARATE, LIKE ALASKA FROM THE 201 00:11:56,449 --> 00:12:00,000 LOWER 48, THE MOSCOW-KALININGRAD TRAIN MUST TRAVEL THROUGH LITHUANIA. THE CARS ARE SEALED FOR THE 202 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,656 LOWER 48, THE MOSCOW-KALININGRAD TRAIN MUST TRAVEL THROUGH LITHUANIA. THE CARS ARE SEALED FOR THE 203 00:12:03,722 --> 00:12:06,000 TRANSIT. BUT AT A STOP IN VILNIUS, RUSSIAN PASSENGERS WERE CONFRONTED BY POSTERS OF 204 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:12,000 TRANSIT. BUT AT A STOP IN VILNIUS, RUSSIAN PASSENGERS WERE CONFRONTED BY POSTERS OF 205 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,200 TRANSIT. BUT AT A STOP IN VILNIUS, RUSSIAN PASSENGERS WERE CONFRONTED BY POSTERS OF 206 00:12:14,266 --> 00:12:18,000 ATROCITIES. EACH READ, "PUTIN IS KILLING CIVILIANS IN UKRAINE. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?" 207 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:24,000 ATROCITIES. EACH READ, "PUTIN IS KILLING CIVILIANS IN UKRAINE. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?" 208 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:24,743 ATROCITIES. EACH READ, "PUTIN IS KILLING CIVILIANS IN UKRAINE. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?" 209 00:12:24,810 --> 00:12:30,000 THE GALLERY TESTIFIED, AS THE TRAIN WAITED HALF AN HOUR. THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW HOW MUCH TRUTH CLIMBED ABOARD. 210 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,451 THE GALLERY TESTIFIED, AS THE TRAIN WAITED HALF AN HOUR. THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW HOW MUCH TRUTH CLIMBED ABOARD. 211 00:12:32,518 --> 00:12:36,000 AND NO ONE IS ALLOWED OFF THE TRAIN IN PART BECAUSE LITHUANIA WORRIES ABOUT RUSSIAN AGENTS. >> PUTIN IS INFAMOUS FOR 212 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,659 AND NO ONE IS ALLOWED OFF THE TRAIN IN PART BECAUSE LITHUANIA WORRIES ABOUT RUSSIAN AGENTS. >> PUTIN IS INFAMOUS FOR 213 00:12:40,726 --> 00:12:42,000 ATTEMPTING TO ATTACK HIS ENEMIES IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND I WONDER IF THE RUSSIAN DISSIDENTS ARE SAFE HERE IN LITHUANIA. 214 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:48,000 ATTEMPTING TO ATTACK HIS ENEMIES IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND I WONDER IF THE RUSSIAN DISSIDENTS ARE SAFE HERE IN LITHUANIA. 215 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,370 ATTEMPTING TO ATTACK HIS ENEMIES IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND I WONDER IF THE RUSSIAN DISSIDENTS ARE SAFE HERE IN LITHUANIA. 216 00:12:51,437 --> 00:12:54,000 >> OF COURSE IT IS A MAJOR CONCERN FOR US. WE SPEND CONSIDERABLE EFFORT IN MAKING SURE THAT DISSIDENTS ARE 217 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:59,245 >> OF COURSE IT IS A MAJOR CONCERN FOR US. WE SPEND CONSIDERABLE EFFORT IN MAKING SURE THAT DISSIDENTS ARE 218 00:12:59,311 --> 00:13:00,000 SAFE HERE AND SAFER THAN THEY WOULD BE, IN FACT, IN MANY OTHER COUNTRIES. >> HAVE THERE BEEN ATTEMPTS? 219 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,951 SAFE HERE AND SAFER THAN THEY WOULD BE, IN FACT, IN MANY OTHER COUNTRIES. >> HAVE THERE BEEN ATTEMPTS? 220 00:13:06,018 --> 00:13:10,189 >> WELL, I'M AFRAID I CAN'T RELEASE THAT INFORMATION IN MORE DETAIL. BUT LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY, THAT 221 00:13:10,256 --> 00:13:12,000 RUSSIA IS CONSTANTLY PROBING AND CONSTANTLY TRYING. >> AND THIS PAST MARCH, RUSSIA MAY HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH. 222 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:18,000 RUSSIA IS CONSTANTLY PROBING AND CONSTANTLY TRYING. >> AND THIS PAST MARCH, RUSSIA MAY HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH. 223 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,734 RUSSIA IS CONSTANTLY PROBING AND CONSTANTLY TRYING. >> AND THIS PAST MARCH, RUSSIA MAY HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH. 224 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,000 LEONID VOLKOV WAS ATTACKED WITH A HAMMER OUTSIDE VILNIUS. VOLKOV, ON THE RIGHT, WAS A TOP AIDE TO PUTIN'S LATE RIVAL, 225 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,839 LEONID VOLKOV WAS ATTACKED WITH A HAMMER OUTSIDE VILNIUS. VOLKOV, ON THE RIGHT, WAS A TOP AIDE TO PUTIN'S LATE RIVAL, 226 00:13:26,906 --> 00:13:30,000 ALEXEI NAVALNY. VOLKOV'S ARM WAS BROKEN. THE ATTACKER FLED. VLADIMIR PUTIN'S RE-ELECTION 227 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:36,000 ALEXEI NAVALNY. VOLKOV'S ARM WAS BROKEN. THE ATTACKER FLED. VLADIMIR PUTIN'S RE-ELECTION 228 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,884 ALEXEI NAVALNY. VOLKOV'S ARM WAS BROKEN. THE ATTACKER FLED. VLADIMIR PUTIN'S RE-ELECTION 229 00:13:38,951 --> 00:13:42,000 THIS YEAR BROUGHT HIM TO HIS FIFTH TERM, WHICH WILL COVER THE NEXT SIX YEARS. >> RUSSIA. 230 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:47,860 THIS YEAR BROUGHT HIM TO HIS FIFTH TERM, WHICH WILL COVER THE NEXT SIX YEARS. >> RUSSIA. 231 00:13:47,927 --> 00:13:48,000 >> HE ENJOYS SUPPORT FROM NATIONALISTS WHO WANT TO BELIEVE THAT TODAY'S RUSSIA IS AN EXCEPTIONAL NATION. 232 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:54,000 >> HE ENJOYS SUPPORT FROM NATIONALISTS WHO WANT TO BELIEVE THAT TODAY'S RUSSIA IS AN EXCEPTIONAL NATION. 233 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:54,266 >> HE ENJOYS SUPPORT FROM NATIONALISTS WHO WANT TO BELIEVE THAT TODAY'S RUSSIA IS AN EXCEPTIONAL NATION. 234 00:13:54,333 --> 00:14:00,000 BUT PUTIN ALSO HAS WEAKNESSES. IT'S ESTIMATED HE'S LOST 300,000 TROOPS KILLED AND WOUNDED. AND RUSSIA HAS A POPULATION LESS 235 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:06,000 BUT PUTIN ALSO HAS WEAKNESSES. IT'S ESTIMATED HE'S LOST 300,000 TROOPS KILLED AND WOUNDED. AND RUSSIA HAS A POPULATION LESS 236 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:06,712 BUT PUTIN ALSO HAS WEAKNESSES. IT'S ESTIMATED HE'S LOST 300,000 TROOPS KILLED AND WOUNDED. AND RUSSIA HAS A POPULATION LESS 237 00:14:06,779 --> 00:14:11,383 THAN HALF THAT OF THE UNITED STATES AND AN ECONOMY ABOUT THE SIZE OF ITALY'S. >> MY HOPE IS A COUNTRY WHERE 238 00:14:11,450 --> 00:14:12,000 GOVERNMENT TAKES CARE OF OUR CITIZENS. >> ANASTASIA SHEVCHENKO IS FREE IN VILNIUS, BUT SHE'S WANTED IN 239 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:18,000 GOVERNMENT TAKES CARE OF OUR CITIZENS. >> ANASTASIA SHEVCHENKO IS FREE IN VILNIUS, BUT SHE'S WANTED IN 240 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,358 GOVERNMENT TAKES CARE OF OUR CITIZENS. >> ANASTASIA SHEVCHENKO IS FREE IN VILNIUS, BUT SHE'S WANTED IN 241 00:14:19,425 --> 00:14:24,000 RUSSIA FOR BREAKING HER PROBATION. THESE DAYS SHE'S STREAMING HER OWN YOUTUBE SHOW AND SENDS 242 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,265 RUSSIA FOR BREAKING HER PROBATION. THESE DAYS SHE'S STREAMING HER OWN YOUTUBE SHOW AND SENDS 243 00:14:26,332 --> 00:14:30,000 MEDICINE, FOOD, AND LETTERS TO POLITICAL PRISONERS. SHE'S BECOME ANOTHER VOICE TO THE ISOLATED AND THE LONELY AND 244 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:36,000 MEDICINE, FOOD, AND LETTERS TO POLITICAL PRISONERS. SHE'S BECOME ANOTHER VOICE TO THE ISOLATED AND THE LONELY AND 245 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:36,842 MEDICINE, FOOD, AND LETTERS TO POLITICAL PRISONERS. SHE'S BECOME ANOTHER VOICE TO THE ISOLATED AND THE LONELY AND 246 00:14:36,909 --> 00:14:42,000 THOSE LIKE HER DAUGHTER, WHO WILL NEVER ESCAPE THE NEW IRON CURTAIN. >> SHE WAS ALONE, NO ONE NEXT TO 247 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,215 THOSE LIKE HER DAUGHTER, WHO WILL NEVER ESCAPE THE NEW IRON CURTAIN. >> SHE WAS ALONE, NO ONE NEXT TO 248 00:14:43,282 --> 00:14:48,000 HER. I REALLY FEEL VERY GUILTY ABOUT IT. BUT I WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING 249 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,155 HER. I REALLY FEEL VERY GUILTY ABOUT IT. BUT I WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING 250 00:14:50,222 --> 00:14:54,000 IN MY LIFE, I THINK. >> WHY NOT? >> YOU KNOW, THE SOCIETY IN RUSSIA IS BASED ON FAKES. 251 00:14:54,000 --> 00:15:00,000 IN MY LIFE, I THINK. >> WHY NOT? >> YOU KNOW, THE SOCIETY IN RUSSIA IS BASED ON FAKES. 252 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:00,132 IN MY LIFE, I THINK. >> WHY NOT? >> YOU KNOW, THE SOCIETY IN RUSSIA IS BASED ON FAKES. 253 00:15:00,199 --> 00:15:06,000 WE HAVE FAKE DEMOCRACY. BY CONSTITUTION, IT IS A DEMOCRACY. FAKE NEWS, FAKE ELECTIONS. 254 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,140 WE HAVE FAKE DEMOCRACY. BY CONSTITUTION, IT IS A DEMOCRACY. FAKE NEWS, FAKE ELECTIONS. 255 00:15:08,207 --> 00:15:12,000 AND I WANT TO BE THE OPPOSITE. I WANT TO BE OPEN. I WANT RUSSIA TO BE OPEN. >> THREE MEN WERE ARRESTED IN 256 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,882 AND I WANT TO BE THE OPPOSITE. I WANT TO BE OPEN. I WANT RUSSIA TO BE OPEN. >> THREE MEN WERE ARRESTED IN 257 00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:18,000 NEIGHBORING POLAND FOR THE ATTACK ON LEONID VOLKOV. THE MAN WHO >>> EACH MONTH, ABOUT 71 MILLION 258 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:24,000 NEIGHBORING POLAND FOR THE ATTACK ON LEONID VOLKOV. THE MAN WHO >>> EACH MONTH, ABOUT 71 MILLION 259 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:30,000 NEIGHBORING POLAND FOR THE ATTACK ON LEONID VOLKOV. THE MAN WHO >>> EACH MONTH, ABOUT 71 MILLION 260 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:36,000 NEIGHBORING POLAND FOR THE ATTACK ON LEONID VOLKOV. THE MAN WHO >>> EACH MONTH, ABOUT 71 MILLION 261 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,506 NEIGHBORING POLAND FOR THE ATTACK ON LEONID VOLKOV. THE MAN WHO >>> EACH MONTH, ABOUT 71 MILLION 262 00:15:40,572 --> 00:15:42,000 AMERICANS, RETIREES, DISABLED WORKERS, AND OTHERS, RECEIVE CHECKS FROM SOCIAL SECURITY. BUT AS WE FIRST REPORTED LAST 263 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:47,780 AMERICANS, RETIREES, DISABLED WORKERS, AND OTHERS, RECEIVE CHECKS FROM SOCIAL SECURITY. BUT AS WE FIRST REPORTED LAST 264 00:15:47,846 --> 00:15:48,000 FALL, EACH YEAR ABOUT A MILLION PEOPLE GET SOMETHING ELSE IN THE MAIL, A BILL. THEY'RE TOLD THEY OWE THE 265 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:53,285 FALL, EACH YEAR ABOUT A MILLION PEOPLE GET SOMETHING ELSE IN THE MAIL, A BILL. THEY'RE TOLD THEY OWE THE 266 00:15:53,352 --> 00:15:54,000 GOVERNMENT MONEY, SOMETIMES TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, BECAUSE THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION MISCALCULATED 267 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,955 GOVERNMENT MONEY, SOMETIMES TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, BECAUSE THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION MISCALCULATED 268 00:15:57,022 --> 00:16:00,000 THEIR BENEFITS AND PAID THEM TOO MUCH. IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE. IT CAN TAKE YEARS, EVEN DECADES, 269 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:06,000 THEIR BENEFITS AND PAID THEM TOO MUCH. IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE. IT CAN TAKE YEARS, EVEN DECADES, 270 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:06,332 THEIR BENEFITS AND PAID THEM TOO MUCH. IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE. IT CAN TAKE YEARS, EVEN DECADES, 271 00:16:06,398 --> 00:16:11,704 FOR THESE UNEXPECTED DEBTS TO SUDDENLY COME TO LIGHT. IT OFTEN DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT THE RECIPIENT'S FAULT. 272 00:16:11,770 --> 00:16:12,000 THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY. FEW PEOPLE REALIZE IT, BUT SOCIAL SECURITY'S MISTAKES ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. 273 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:18,000 THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY. FEW PEOPLE REALIZE IT, BUT SOCIAL SECURITY'S MISTAKES ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. 274 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,181 THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY. FEW PEOPLE REALIZE IT, BUT SOCIAL SECURITY'S MISTAKES ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. 275 00:16:22,247 --> 00:16:24,000 IN 2022 AT STEVEN AND BECKY SWORD'S HOME IN CHICAGO, A LETTER ARRIVED FROM THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION. 276 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:29,788 IN 2022 AT STEVEN AND BECKY SWORD'S HOME IN CHICAGO, A LETTER ARRIVED FROM THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION. 277 00:16:29,855 --> 00:16:30,000 WHEN BECKY SWORD READ IT, SHE WAS STUNNED TO DISCOVER THAT SHE AND HER HUSBAND OWED SOCIAL SECURITY $51,887 AND WERE 278 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,559 WHEN BECKY SWORD READ IT, SHE WAS STUNNED TO DISCOVER THAT SHE AND HER HUSBAND OWED SOCIAL SECURITY $51,887 AND WERE 279 00:16:33,625 --> 00:16:36,000 EXPECTED TO REPAY IT WITHIN 30 DAYS. >> THAT LETTER CHANGED YOUR LIFE. 280 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,130 EXPECTED TO REPAY IT WITHIN 30 DAYS. >> THAT LETTER CHANGED YOUR LIFE. 281 00:16:38,197 --> 00:16:42,000 >> OH, YEAH. >> ARE YOU SCARED? >> HE'S THINKING WE'RE GOING TO LOSE OUR HOUSE. 282 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:42,835 >> OH, YEAH. >> ARE YOU SCARED? >> HE'S THINKING WE'RE GOING TO LOSE OUR HOUSE. 283 00:16:42,901 --> 00:16:48,000 WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO? I MEAN, WE WERE VERY SCARED. >> WHEN WE SPOKE WITH STEVEN AND BECKY SWORD IN AUGUST, STEVEN 284 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,041 WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO? I MEAN, WE WERE VERY SCARED. >> WHEN WE SPOKE WITH STEVEN AND BECKY SWORD IN AUGUST, STEVEN 285 00:16:49,108 --> 00:16:54,000 WAS MAKING $16 AN HOUR AS A SECURITY GUARD ON THE OVERNIGHT SHIFT AT A CONDOMINIUM COMPLEX. BECKY WAS WORKING DAYS AS AN 286 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,517 WAS MAKING $16 AN HOUR AS A SECURITY GUARD ON THE OVERNIGHT SHIFT AT A CONDOMINIUM COMPLEX. BECKY WAS WORKING DAYS AS AN 287 00:16:58,584 --> 00:17:00,000 OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY ASSISTANT IN A NURSING HOME. THEY'RE 62 YEARS OLD AND HAVE WORKED FULL TIME MOST OF THEIR 288 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,422 OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY ASSISTANT IN A NURSING HOME. THEY'RE 62 YEARS OLD AND HAVE WORKED FULL TIME MOST OF THEIR 289 00:17:03,489 --> 00:17:06,000 LIVES. BUT FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, STEVEN'S BEEN DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF A PANCREATIC DISEASE 290 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:12,000 LIVES. BUT FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, STEVEN'S BEEN DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF A PANCREATIC DISEASE 291 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:12,431 LIVES. BUT FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, STEVEN'S BEEN DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF A PANCREATIC DISEASE 292 00:17:12,498 --> 00:17:17,970 THAT NEARLY KILLED HIM IN 2016. >> HOW LONG WERE YOU IN THE HOSPITAL FOR? >> ABOUT 105 DAYS. 293 00:17:18,036 --> 00:17:23,642 IT WAS HARD BECAUSE WHEN I LEFT THE HOSPITAL, IT TOOK ME ABOUT TWO MONTHS TO LEARN TO EAT AND WALK AGAIN. 294 00:17:23,709 --> 00:17:24,000 >> STEVEN STARTED RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY CHECKS IN 2017, AS HE RECOVERED AND RETURNED TO WORK. 295 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:30,000 >> STEVEN STARTED RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY CHECKS IN 2017, AS HE RECOVERED AND RETURNED TO WORK. 296 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:30,349 >> STEVEN STARTED RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY CHECKS IN 2017, AS HE RECOVERED AND RETURNED TO WORK. 297 00:17:30,416 --> 00:17:36,000 THE AGENCY'S RULES ARE COMPLICATED, BUT BECKY FAXED STEVEN'S PAY STUBS TO SOCIAL SECURITY SO THE AGENCY COULD 298 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:36,155 THE AGENCY'S RULES ARE COMPLICATED, BUT BECKY FAXED STEVEN'S PAY STUBS TO SOCIAL SECURITY SO THE AGENCY COULD 299 00:17:36,221 --> 00:17:42,000 MONITOR HIS EARNINGS AND ELIGIBILITY. SHE KEPT THE FAX RECEIPTS. >> SO, I KNEW THEY WERE GETTING 300 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:48,000 MONITOR HIS EARNINGS AND ELIGIBILITY. SHE KEPT THE FAX RECEIPTS. >> SO, I KNEW THEY WERE GETTING 301 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,402 MONITOR HIS EARNINGS AND ELIGIBILITY. SHE KEPT THE FAX RECEIPTS. >> SO, I KNEW THEY WERE GETTING 302 00:17:50,469 --> 00:17:53,038 IT, YOU KNOW? >> IN RETURN, SOCIAL SECURITY SENT THE SWORDS LETTERS LIKE THIS ONE, SAYING IT HAD 303 00:17:53,105 --> 00:17:54,000 INCREASED STEVEN'S BENEFITS TO GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR HIS 2019 EARNINGS. >> IS THE IMPRESSION YOU GOT 304 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,674 INCREASED STEVEN'S BENEFITS TO GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR HIS 2019 EARNINGS. >> IS THE IMPRESSION YOU GOT 305 00:17:55,741 --> 00:18:00,000 FROM THAT THAT THEY'RE EXAMINING THE PAY STUBS AND THEY'RE PAYING ATTENTION? >> DEFINITELY. 306 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,013 FROM THAT THAT THEY'RE EXAMINING THE PAY STUBS AND THEY'RE PAYING ATTENTION? >> DEFINITELY. 307 00:18:01,079 --> 00:18:06,000 BECAUSE THEY'RE INCREASING IT, YEAH. >> BUT THE LETTER THE SWORDS GOT FROM SOCIAL SECURITY IN 2022 308 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,352 BECAUSE THEY'RE INCREASING IT, YEAH. >> BUT THE LETTER THE SWORDS GOT FROM SOCIAL SECURITY IN 2022 309 00:18:07,419 --> 00:18:12,000 SAID STEVEN SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN ANY MONEY AT THE TIME THE AGENCY GAVE HIM THAT INCREASE. STEVEN AND BECKY OWED MORE THAN 310 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,158 SAID STEVEN SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN ANY MONEY AT THE TIME THE AGENCY GAVE HIM THAT INCREASE. STEVEN AND BECKY OWED MORE THAN 311 00:18:13,225 --> 00:18:18,000 $50,000, THE AGENCY SAID, BECAUSE WE DID NOT STOP HIS CHECKS ABOUT THREE YEARS SOONER. >> HAS ANYONE IN SOCIAL SECURITY 312 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,798 $50,000, THE AGENCY SAID, BECAUSE WE DID NOT STOP HIS CHECKS ABOUT THREE YEARS SOONER. >> HAS ANYONE IN SOCIAL SECURITY 313 00:18:19,865 --> 00:18:24,000 EVER, SORT OF, APOLOGIZED? >> NO. THEY TAKE NO BLAME AT ALL. >> THEY SAY IT'S OUR FAULT. 314 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,170 EVER, SORT OF, APOLOGIZED? >> NO. THEY TAKE NO BLAME AT ALL. >> THEY SAY IT'S OUR FAULT. 315 00:18:25,237 --> 00:18:30,000 >> THEY'RE SAYING YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT -- >> THAT WE'RE MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY. 316 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,112 >> THEY'RE SAYING YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT -- >> THAT WE'RE MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY. 317 00:18:34,179 --> 00:18:36,000 >> -- THAT SOCIAL SECURITY WAS GIVING YOU TOO MUCH MONEY EVEN THOUGH SOCIAL SECURITY DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE GIVING YOU TOO 318 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:36,982 >> -- THAT SOCIAL SECURITY WAS GIVING YOU TOO MUCH MONEY EVEN THOUGH SOCIAL SECURITY DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE GIVING YOU TOO 319 00:18:37,049 --> 00:18:39,451 MUCH MONEY. >> YEAH. WHICH IS STRANGE. YOU'RE SENDING IN YOUR PAY 320 00:18:39,518 --> 00:18:42,000 STUBS. SOMEONE HAS TO FILE THAT. >> WHEN WE ASKED THEM, THEY SAID, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT 321 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,023 STUBS. SOMEONE HAS TO FILE THAT. >> WHEN WE ASKED THEM, THEY SAID, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT 322 00:18:45,090 --> 00:18:48,000 THAT EVERY MONTH. SHE EVEN SAID, THEY'RE NOT EVEN LOOKING AT THAT EVERY YEAR. I COULD SEE MAKING A MISTAKE 323 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,662 THAT EVERY MONTH. SHE EVEN SAID, THEY'RE NOT EVEN LOOKING AT THAT EVERY YEAR. I COULD SEE MAKING A MISTAKE 324 00:18:50,729 --> 00:18:54,000 AFTER A FEW MONTHS, BUT A FEW YEARS. AND THEN THEY BLAMED IT ON COVID. 325 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,567 AFTER A FEW MONTHS, BUT A FEW YEARS. AND THEN THEY BLAMED IT ON COVID. 326 00:18:55,634 --> 00:19:00,000 THEY BLAMED IT ON BEING UNDERSTAFFED. TO ME RIGHT THERE IT'S SAYING IT'S THEIR FAULT. 327 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,640 THEY BLAMED IT ON BEING UNDERSTAFFED. TO ME RIGHT THERE IT'S SAYING IT'S THEIR FAULT. 328 00:19:01,707 --> 00:19:05,611 >> THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION TOLD US ITS PRIVACY RULES PREVENT IT FROM COMMENTING ON INDIVIDUAL CASES 329 00:19:05,677 --> 00:19:06,000 LIKE THE SWORDS. AND NO ONE FROM THE AGENCY WOULD GIVE US AN ON-CAMERA INTERVIEW. BUT KILOLO KIJAKAZI, THE FORMER 330 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:12,000 LIKE THE SWORDS. AND NO ONE FROM THE AGENCY WOULD GIVE US AN ON-CAMERA INTERVIEW. BUT KILOLO KIJAKAZI, THE FORMER 331 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:18,000 LIKE THE SWORDS. AND NO ONE FROM THE AGENCY WOULD GIVE US AN ON-CAMERA INTERVIEW. BUT KILOLO KIJAKAZI, THE FORMER 332 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:23,529 LIKE THE SWORDS. AND NO ONE FROM THE AGENCY WOULD GIVE US AN ON-CAMERA INTERVIEW. BUT KILOLO KIJAKAZI, THE FORMER 333 00:19:23,595 --> 00:19:24,000 ACTING COMMISSIONER OF SOCIAL SECURITY, GAVE THIS TESTIMONY BEFORE A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE LATE LAST MONTH. 334 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,066 ACTING COMMISSIONER OF SOCIAL SECURITY, GAVE THIS TESTIMONY BEFORE A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE LATE LAST MONTH. 335 00:19:28,133 --> 00:19:30,000 >> HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE RECEIVING OVERPAYMENT NOTICES IN A YEAR? >> FOR FY-2022, 1,028,389. FOR FY-2023, 986,912. 336 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,507 >> HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE RECEIVING OVERPAYMENT NOTICES IN A YEAR? >> FOR FY-2022, 1,028,389. FOR FY-2023, 986,912. 337 00:19:35,574 --> 00:19:36,000 >> SEEMS LIKE AN AWFUL LOT. >> NOBODY KNOWS THIS IS HAPPENING TO SO MANY PEOPLE. >> THIS IS NOT A STORY SOCIAL 338 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,213 >> SEEMS LIKE AN AWFUL LOT. >> NOBODY KNOWS THIS IS HAPPENING TO SO MANY PEOPLE. >> THIS IS NOT A STORY SOCIAL 339 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,000 SECURITY WANTS TO PUBLICIZE. >> OH, NO. >> NO. >> TERRY SAVAGE WRITES A 340 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,986 SECURITY WANTS TO PUBLICIZE. >> OH, NO. >> NO. >> TERRY SAVAGE WRITES A 341 00:19:48,053 --> 00:19:54,000 NATIONALLY SYNDICATED COLUMN ON PERSONAL FINANCE. LAURENCE KOTLIKOFF, AN ECONOMICS PROFESSOR AT BOSTON 342 00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:00,000 NATIONALLY SYNDICATED COLUMN ON PERSONAL FINANCE. LAURENCE KOTLIKOFF, AN ECONOMICS PROFESSOR AT BOSTON 343 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,237 NATIONALLY SYNDICATED COLUMN ON PERSONAL FINANCE. LAURENCE KOTLIKOFF, AN ECONOMICS PROFESSOR AT BOSTON 344 00:20:05,304 --> 00:20:06,000 UNIVERSITY CREATED SOFTWARE TO HELP PEOPLE MAXIMIZE THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS. TOGETHER, THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO 345 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,576 UNIVERSITY CREATED SOFTWARE TO HELP PEOPLE MAXIMIZE THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS. TOGETHER, THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO 346 00:20:10,642 --> 00:20:12,000 LAW ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY CALL SOCIAL SECURITY HORROR STORIES, CAUSED LARGELY, THEY SAY, BY THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION'S 347 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,779 LAW ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY CALL SOCIAL SECURITY HORROR STORIES, CAUSED LARGELY, THEY SAY, BY THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION'S 348 00:20:13,845 --> 00:20:18,000 OWN MISTAKES. >> THEIR MANTRA, THEIR RULE, IS OUR MISTAKE IS YOUR MISTAKE. AND YOU CAN APPEAL IT OR ASK FOR 349 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,585 OWN MISTAKES. >> THEIR MANTRA, THEIR RULE, IS OUR MISTAKE IS YOUR MISTAKE. AND YOU CAN APPEAL IT OR ASK FOR 350 00:20:19,651 --> 00:20:24,000 A WAIVER. THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL WAIVE THIS CLAWBACK IS IF YOU ARE INDIGENT, REALLY, REALLY POOR. 351 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,594 A WAIVER. THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL WAIVE THIS CLAWBACK IS IF YOU ARE INDIGENT, REALLY, REALLY POOR. 352 00:20:28,660 --> 00:20:30,000 >> THE WORST PART OF IT IS THEY HAVE ALL THE POWER BECAUSE THEY SAY, IF YOU DON'T PAY US BACK, WE'RE JUST GOING TO CUT YOUR 353 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,831 >> THE WORST PART OF IT IS THEY HAVE ALL THE POWER BECAUSE THEY SAY, IF YOU DON'T PAY US BACK, WE'RE JUST GOING TO CUT YOUR 354 00:20:32,898 --> 00:20:36,000 BENEFIT CHECK. IMAGINE. PEOPLE LIVE ON THOSE CHECKS. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU GET NO 355 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,703 BENEFIT CHECK. IMAGINE. PEOPLE LIVE ON THOSE CHECKS. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU GET NO 356 00:20:37,769 --> 00:20:42,000 CHECK OR A SMALL AMOUNT? >> IF SOMEONE'S BEEN PAID TOO MUCH IN SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS, WHY SHOULDN'T THEY 357 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,043 CHECK OR A SMALL AMOUNT? >> IF SOMEONE'S BEEN PAID TOO MUCH IN SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS, WHY SHOULDN'T THEY 358 00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:48,000 HAVE TO PAY IT BACK? >> BECAUSE YOU RELIED ON IT SO YOU MAY HAVE DECIDED TO RETIRE EARLY OR TO SPEND THE MONEY ON 359 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:53,218 HAVE TO PAY IT BACK? >> BECAUSE YOU RELIED ON IT SO YOU MAY HAVE DECIDED TO RETIRE EARLY OR TO SPEND THE MONEY ON 360 00:20:53,285 --> 00:20:54,000 YOUR CHILD'S TUITION. >> OVERPAYMENTS HAVE EXISTED FOR DECADES AND CAUSED PEOPLE A LOT OF FINANCIAL PAIN. 361 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,191 YOUR CHILD'S TUITION. >> OVERPAYMENTS HAVE EXISTED FOR DECADES AND CAUSED PEOPLE A LOT OF FINANCIAL PAIN. 362 00:20:59,257 --> 00:21:00,000 BUT FIXING THE PROBLEM HAS NEVER BEEN A HIGH PRIORITY ON CAPITOL HILL. IN 2015, CONGRESS DID APPROVE A 363 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:06,000 BUT FIXING THE PROBLEM HAS NEVER BEEN A HIGH PRIORITY ON CAPITOL HILL. IN 2015, CONGRESS DID APPROVE A 364 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,165 BUT FIXING THE PROBLEM HAS NEVER BEEN A HIGH PRIORITY ON CAPITOL HILL. IN 2015, CONGRESS DID APPROVE A 365 00:21:07,232 --> 00:21:12,000 MEASURE TO REDUCE OVERPAYMENTS BY GIVING SOCIAL SECURITY MORE TIMELY ACCESS TO PAYROLL DATA. BUT EIGHT YEARS LATER, THE 366 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:12,004 MEASURE TO REDUCE OVERPAYMENTS BY GIVING SOCIAL SECURITY MORE TIMELY ACCESS TO PAYROLL DATA. BUT EIGHT YEARS LATER, THE 367 00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:18,000 AGENCY STILL HASN'T PUT THE NEW SYSTEM IN PLACE. AGING TECHNOLOGY AND STAFF SHORTAGES HAVE TAKEN A TOLL ON 368 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,313 AGENCY STILL HASN'T PUT THE NEW SYSTEM IN PLACE. AGING TECHNOLOGY AND STAFF SHORTAGES HAVE TAKEN A TOLL ON 369 00:21:21,380 --> 00:21:24,000 SOCIAL SECURITY. IN 2022, THE AGENCY'S WORKFORCE HIT A 25-YEAR LOW, AS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE CLAIMING BENEFITS KEPT 370 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,287 SOCIAL SECURITY. IN 2022, THE AGENCY'S WORKFORCE HIT A 25-YEAR LOW, AS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE CLAIMING BENEFITS KEPT 371 00:21:29,354 --> 00:21:30,000 GOING UP. WHEN WE TOOK A CLOSE LOOK AT SOCIAL SECURITY'S ANNUAL REPORTS TO CONGRESS, WE DISCOVERED 372 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,859 GOING UP. WHEN WE TOOK A CLOSE LOOK AT SOCIAL SECURITY'S ANNUAL REPORTS TO CONGRESS, WE DISCOVERED 373 00:21:33,925 --> 00:21:36,000 SOMETHING ELSE HAS BEEN GOING UP AS WELL, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE AGENCY HAS BEEN CLAWING BACK FROM THE CHECKS OF PEOPLE WITH 374 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:41,299 SOMETHING ELSE HAS BEEN GOING UP AS WELL, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE AGENCY HAS BEEN CLAWING BACK FROM THE CHECKS OF PEOPLE WITH 375 00:21:41,366 --> 00:21:42,000 OVERPAYMENTS. JEAN RODRIGUEZ, WHO'S 73 YEARS OLD, TOLD US HER RETIREMENT CHECKS HAD BEEN WITHHELD FOR THE 376 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:48,000 OVERPAYMENTS. JEAN RODRIGUEZ, WHO'S 73 YEARS OLD, TOLD US HER RETIREMENT CHECKS HAD BEEN WITHHELD FOR THE 377 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:48,206 OVERPAYMENTS. JEAN RODRIGUEZ, WHO'S 73 YEARS OLD, TOLD US HER RETIREMENT CHECKS HAD BEEN WITHHELD FOR THE 378 00:21:48,273 --> 00:21:54,000 PAST TWO YEARS. A FORMER SCHOOL CAFETERIA WORKER, SHE STARTED RECEIVING BENEFITS IN 2014. 379 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,615 PAST TWO YEARS. A FORMER SCHOOL CAFETERIA WORKER, SHE STARTED RECEIVING BENEFITS IN 2014. 380 00:21:56,682 --> 00:22:00,000 BUT FOUR YEARS LATER, SHE AND HER HUSBAND, GLENN, WERE ASKED TO COME TO THE LOCAL SOCIAL SECURITY OFFICE IN VIRGINIA 381 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,486 BUT FOUR YEARS LATER, SHE AND HER HUSBAND, GLENN, WERE ASKED TO COME TO THE LOCAL SOCIAL SECURITY OFFICE IN VIRGINIA 382 00:22:01,553 --> 00:22:06,000 BEACH, VIRGINIA, TO SPEAK WITH A REPRESENTATIVE. >> AND HE SAYS, WE HAVE A SMALL PROBLEM. 383 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:06,792 BEACH, VIRGINIA, TO SPEAK WITH A REPRESENTATIVE. >> AND HE SAYS, WE HAVE A SMALL PROBLEM. 384 00:22:06,858 --> 00:22:11,630 >> HOW MUCH DID HE SAY THEY HAD OVERPAID YOU? >> $72,000. >> THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A 385 00:22:11,697 --> 00:22:12,000 SMALL PROBLEM. >> NO. IT WASN'T. WE WERE BOTH DEVASTATED. 386 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,835 SMALL PROBLEM. >> NO. IT WASN'T. WE WERE BOTH DEVASTATED. 387 00:22:16,902 --> 00:22:18,000 >> WHAT DID THEY TELL YOU HAPPENED? >> SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, THEY MADE A COMBINATION OF FOUR 388 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,175 >> WHAT DID THEY TELL YOU HAPPENED? >> SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, THEY MADE A COMBINATION OF FOUR 389 00:22:23,241 --> 00:22:24,000 OTHER PEOPLE IN ADDITION TO MY NUMBERS. >> SO, THEY WERE GIVING YOU BENEFITS BASED NOT JUST ON YOUR 390 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:30,000 OTHER PEOPLE IN ADDITION TO MY NUMBERS. >> SO, THEY WERE GIVING YOU BENEFITS BASED NOT JUST ON YOUR 391 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:30,582 OTHER PEOPLE IN ADDITION TO MY NUMBERS. >> SO, THEY WERE GIVING YOU BENEFITS BASED NOT JUST ON YOUR 392 00:22:30,649 --> 00:22:35,654 SALARY BUT ON FOUR OTHER PEOPLE'S SALARY ALL COMBINED. >> RIGHT. >> HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? 393 00:22:35,721 --> 00:22:36,000 >> GOOD QUESTION. DON'T KNOW HOW THEY DID IT. >> DID SOCIAL SECURITY ADMIT TO YOU THAT THIS WAS THEIR FAULT? 394 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,226 >> GOOD QUESTION. DON'T KNOW HOW THEY DID IT. >> DID SOCIAL SECURITY ADMIT TO YOU THAT THIS WAS THEIR FAULT? 395 00:22:41,293 --> 00:22:42,000 >> YES, THEY DID. >> BUT THE AGENCY SAID THE RODRIGUEZS HAD TO PAY THE MONEY BACK ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY COULD 396 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:48,000 >> YES, THEY DID. >> BUT THE AGENCY SAID THE RODRIGUEZS HAD TO PAY THE MONEY BACK ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY COULD 397 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,303 >> YES, THEY DID. >> BUT THE AGENCY SAID THE RODRIGUEZS HAD TO PAY THE MONEY BACK ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY COULD 398 00:22:51,369 --> 00:22:54,000 AFFORD TO DO. JEAN AND GLENN OWN THEIR HOME, AND GLENN GETS A PENSION FROM THE NAVY. 399 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,342 AFFORD TO DO. JEAN AND GLENN OWN THEIR HOME, AND GLENN GETS A PENSION FROM THE NAVY. 400 00:22:57,409 --> 00:23:00,000 >> IF IT WAS SOMETHING I KNEW I DID TOTALLY WRONG, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME AFTER ME. BUT I DIDN'T KNOW HOW THEY 401 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,050 >> IF IT WAS SOMETHING I KNEW I DID TOTALLY WRONG, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME AFTER ME. BUT I DIDN'T KNOW HOW THEY 402 00:23:05,117 --> 00:23:06,000 CALCULATED IT AND THEN THEY WAITED FOUR YEARS TO FIGURE IT OUT. >> IN A STATEMENT, THE SOCIAL 403 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,421 CALCULATED IT AND THEN THEY WAITED FOUR YEARS TO FIGURE IT OUT. >> IN A STATEMENT, THE SOCIAL 404 00:23:09,488 --> 00:23:12,000 SECURITY ADMINISTRATION TOLD US, OUR PAYMENT ACCURACY RATES ARE HIGH, YET EVEN SMALL ERROR RATES ADD UP TO SUBSTANTIAL IMPROPER 405 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,195 SECURITY ADMINISTRATION TOLD US, OUR PAYMENT ACCURACY RATES ARE HIGH, YET EVEN SMALL ERROR RATES ADD UP TO SUBSTANTIAL IMPROPER 406 00:23:17,262 --> 00:23:18,000 PAYMENT AMOUNTS. THE AGENCY SAID IT'S REQUIRED BY LAW TO RECOVER THIS MONEY AND ADDED THAT OVERPAYMENTS ARE NOT 407 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:24,000 PAYMENT AMOUNTS. THE AGENCY SAID IT'S REQUIRED BY LAW TO RECOVER THIS MONEY AND ADDED THAT OVERPAYMENTS ARE NOT 408 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,437 PAYMENT AMOUNTS. THE AGENCY SAID IT'S REQUIRED BY LAW TO RECOVER THIS MONEY AND ADDED THAT OVERPAYMENTS ARE NOT 409 00:23:25,504 --> 00:23:30,000 NECESSARILY THE AGENCY'S FAULT. THEY CAN HAPPEN WHEN A BENEFICIARY DOES NOT TIMELY REPORT WORK OR OTHER FINANCIAL 410 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:30,375 NECESSARILY THE AGENCY'S FAULT. THEY CAN HAPPEN WHEN A BENEFICIARY DOES NOT TIMELY REPORT WORK OR OTHER FINANCIAL 411 00:23:30,442 --> 00:23:36,000 INFORMATION. THERE'S NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG SOCIAL SECURITY CAN WAIT TO COLLECT AN 412 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:36,715 INFORMATION. THERE'S NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG SOCIAL SECURITY CAN WAIT TO COLLECT AN 413 00:23:36,782 --> 00:23:42,000 OVERPAYMENT. MORE THAN TWO YEARS AGO, ROY FARMER OF GRAND RAPIDS, MICHIGAN, GOT A LETTER FROM 414 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,423 OVERPAYMENT. MORE THAN TWO YEARS AGO, ROY FARMER OF GRAND RAPIDS, MICHIGAN, GOT A LETTER FROM 415 00:23:45,490 --> 00:23:48,000 SOCIAL SECURITY ASKING WHETHER HE'D FORGOTTEN TO PAY A DEBT HE DIDN'T KNOW HE HAD. >> THIS IS AN ALLEGED 416 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,494 SOCIAL SECURITY ASKING WHETHER HE'D FORGOTTEN TO PAY A DEBT HE DIDN'T KNOW HE HAD. >> THIS IS AN ALLEGED 417 00:23:49,561 --> 00:23:52,364 OVERPAYMENT FROM 20 YEARS AGO. >> YES, SIR. >> WHEN YOU WERE 11 OR 12 YEARS OLD. 418 00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:54,000 >> CORRECT. >> ROY FARMER GREW UP IN ROYAL RURAL CADILLAC, MICHIGAN, IN A FAMILY OF SIX THAT STRUGGLED TO 419 00:23:54,000 --> 00:24:00,000 >> CORRECT. >> ROY FARMER GREW UP IN ROYAL RURAL CADILLAC, MICHIGAN, IN A FAMILY OF SIX THAT STRUGGLED TO 420 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,007 >> CORRECT. >> ROY FARMER GREW UP IN ROYAL RURAL CADILLAC, MICHIGAN, IN A FAMILY OF SIX THAT STRUGGLED TO 421 00:24:02,073 --> 00:24:05,744 MAKE ENDS MEET. >> WE ENDED UP NEAR HOMELESSNESS A COUPLE OF TIMES, AT ONE POINT LIVING, SIX OF US IN A CAMPER 422 00:24:05,811 --> 00:24:06,000 TRAILER. >> HE WAS BORN WITH CEREBRAL PALSY. >> I HAD LEG BRACES. 423 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:12,000 TRAILER. >> HE WAS BORN WITH CEREBRAL PALSY. >> I HAD LEG BRACES. 424 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:12,884 TRAILER. >> HE WAS BORN WITH CEREBRAL PALSY. >> I HAD LEG BRACES. 425 00:24:12,951 --> 00:24:18,000 I HAD TO WALK WITH A CHILD SIZE VERSION OF AN OLD PERSON WALKER. >> AND YOU HAD SURGERIES. YOU HAD DOCTORS VISITS. 426 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,257 I HAD TO WALK WITH A CHILD SIZE VERSION OF AN OLD PERSON WALKER. >> AND YOU HAD SURGERIES. YOU HAD DOCTORS VISITS. 427 00:24:19,324 --> 00:24:23,829 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> YOU HAD IT TREATED. >> YEAH. SO, THANKFULLY THEY WERE ABLE TO 428 00:24:23,895 --> 00:24:24,000 GET ME TO A POINT WHERE I COULD LIVE A MORE OR LESS NORMAL LIFE WITH SOME LIMITATIONS. >> HE'S 33 YEARS OLD NOW AND 429 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,501 GET ME TO A POINT WHERE I COULD LIVE A MORE OR LESS NORMAL LIFE WITH SOME LIMITATIONS. >> HE'S 33 YEARS OLD NOW AND 430 00:24:29,568 --> 00:24:30,000 WORKS FULL TIME. BUT WHEN HE WAS A CHILD, HIS MOTHER RECEIVED BENEFITS ON HIS BEHALF. 431 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,774 WORKS FULL TIME. BUT WHEN HE WAS A CHILD, HIS MOTHER RECEIVED BENEFITS ON HIS BEHALF. 432 00:24:35,841 --> 00:24:36,000 SOCIAL SECURITY TOLD HIM THAT WHEN HE WAS 11 YEARS OLD, THE AGENCY DETERMINED HE WAS NO LONGER MEDICALLY ELIGIBLE FOR 433 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,680 SOCIAL SECURITY TOLD HIM THAT WHEN HE WAS 11 YEARS OLD, THE AGENCY DETERMINED HE WAS NO LONGER MEDICALLY ELIGIBLE FOR 434 00:24:41,746 --> 00:24:42,000 BENEFITS, AND HIS MOTHER RECEIVED $4,902 TOO MUCH. HIS MOTHER DIED A FEW YEARS AGO, AND THE AGENCY IS INSISTING HE 435 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:48,000 BENEFITS, AND HIS MOTHER RECEIVED $4,902 TOO MUCH. HIS MOTHER DIED A FEW YEARS AGO, AND THE AGENCY IS INSISTING HE 436 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,656 BENEFITS, AND HIS MOTHER RECEIVED $4,902 TOO MUCH. HIS MOTHER DIED A FEW YEARS AGO, AND THE AGENCY IS INSISTING HE 437 00:24:51,723 --> 00:24:54,000 PAY BACK THE MONEY BECAUSE IT BELIEVES HE CAN AFFORD TO DO SO. >> COULD YOU AFFORD $4,902? >> NO, SIR. 438 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:59,598 PAY BACK THE MONEY BECAUSE IT BELIEVES HE CAN AFFORD TO DO SO. >> COULD YOU AFFORD $4,902? >> NO, SIR. 439 00:24:59,664 --> 00:25:00,000 THAT MUCH IS ABOUT A SIXTH OF MY ANNUAL TAKE-HOME PAY. >> LIKE MOST OF THE PEOPLE WE SPOKE TO, ROY FARMER COULDN'T 440 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:06,000 THAT MUCH IS ABOUT A SIXTH OF MY ANNUAL TAKE-HOME PAY. >> LIKE MOST OF THE PEOPLE WE SPOKE TO, ROY FARMER COULDN'T 441 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,672 THAT MUCH IS ABOUT A SIXTH OF MY ANNUAL TAKE-HOME PAY. >> LIKE MOST OF THE PEOPLE WE SPOKE TO, ROY FARMER COULDN'T 442 00:25:07,739 --> 00:25:12,000 FIND A LAWYER TO HELP HIM. THERE'S LITTLE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE FOR ATTORNEYS TO TAKE ON THESE CASES. 443 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,210 FIND A LAWYER TO HELP HIM. THERE'S LITTLE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE FOR ATTORNEYS TO TAKE ON THESE CASES. 444 00:25:12,277 --> 00:25:18,000 IT TOOK FARMER NINE MONTHS TO GET THE DOCUMENTS IN HIS SOCIAL SECURITY FILE. HE WAS LOOKING FOR THE AGENCY'S 445 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,384 IT TOOK FARMER NINE MONTHS TO GET THE DOCUMENTS IN HIS SOCIAL SECURITY FILE. HE WAS LOOKING FOR THE AGENCY'S 446 00:25:19,451 --> 00:25:24,000 EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS NO LONGER MEDICALLY ELIGIBLE FOR BENEFITS WHEN HE WAS 11 YEARS OLD. BUT HE SAYS THERE WAS NONE. 447 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,759 EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS NO LONGER MEDICALLY ELIGIBLE FOR BENEFITS WHEN HE WAS 11 YEARS OLD. BUT HE SAYS THERE WAS NONE. 448 00:25:27,826 --> 00:25:30,000 >> AND THEY TOLD ME, WE PROBABLY HAD IT AT SOME POINT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE IT NOW. >> AND THEY ADMIT THERE'S NO 449 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,033 >> AND THEY TOLD ME, WE PROBABLY HAD IT AT SOME POINT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE IT NOW. >> AND THEY ADMIT THERE'S NO 450 00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:36,000 EVIDENCE YOU'RE AT FAULT, BUT THEY'RE STILL COMING AFTER YOU FOR IT. >> YES, SIR. 451 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,970 EVIDENCE YOU'RE AT FAULT, BUT THEY'RE STILL COMING AFTER YOU FOR IT. >> YES, SIR. 452 00:25:39,037 --> 00:25:42,000 >> PEOPLE AT SOCIAL SECURITY HAVE TOLD US, LOOK, THIS IS A LAW, THIS HAS TO BE CHANGED THROUGH CONGRESS. 453 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,543 >> PEOPLE AT SOCIAL SECURITY HAVE TOLD US, LOOK, THIS IS A LAW, THIS HAS TO BE CHANGED THROUGH CONGRESS. 454 00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:48,000 >> IT'S NOT, ANDERSON, BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS THAT IF EQUITY AND GOOD CONSCIENCE DEMANDS THAT THE CLAWBACK BE WAIVED, IT SHOULD BE 455 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,000 >> IT'S NOT, ANDERSON, BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS THAT IF EQUITY AND GOOD CONSCIENCE DEMANDS THAT THE CLAWBACK BE WAIVED, IT SHOULD BE 456 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:54,886 >> IT'S NOT, ANDERSON, BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS THAT IF EQUITY AND GOOD CONSCIENCE DEMANDS THAT THE CLAWBACK BE WAIVED, IT SHOULD BE 457 00:25:54,953 --> 00:26:00,000 WAIVED. >> LAURENCE KOTLIKOFF, THE ECONOMIST WHO HAS WRITTEN ABOUT OVERPAYMENTS, IS TALKING ABOUT A 458 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:00,258 WAIVED. >> LAURENCE KOTLIKOFF, THE ECONOMIST WHO HAS WRITTEN ABOUT OVERPAYMENTS, IS TALKING ABOUT A 459 00:26:00,325 --> 00:26:06,000 SPECIFIC PART OF THE SOCIAL SECURITY ACT THAT SAYS THE AGENCY SHOULD NOT RECOVER AN OVERPAYMENT IF DOING SO WOULD BE 460 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,132 SPECIFIC PART OF THE SOCIAL SECURITY ACT THAT SAYS THE AGENCY SHOULD NOT RECOVER AN OVERPAYMENT IF DOING SO WOULD BE 461 00:26:07,198 --> 00:26:12,000 AGAINST EQUITY AND GOOD CONSCIENCE. THE PROBLEM, HE SAYS, IS THAT SOCIAL SECURITY INTERPRETS THAT 462 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,505 AGAINST EQUITY AND GOOD CONSCIENCE. THE PROBLEM, HE SAYS, IS THAT SOCIAL SECURITY INTERPRETS THAT 463 00:26:13,571 --> 00:26:16,675 PHRASE IN A VERY NARROW WAY. >> SO, THE AGENCY ITSELF, SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, HAS A LOT OF DISCRETION. 464 00:26:16,741 --> 00:26:18,000 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> OH, SURE, THEY DO. >> FINANCIALLY, THE LONG-TERM PICTURE IS NOT GOOD. 465 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:24,000 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> OH, SURE, THEY DO. >> FINANCIALLY, THE LONG-TERM PICTURE IS NOT GOOD. 466 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,150 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> OH, SURE, THEY DO. >> FINANCIALLY, THE LONG-TERM PICTURE IS NOT GOOD. 467 00:26:25,216 --> 00:26:30,000 AND THEY'VE TRAINED THE STAFF, LOOK, YOUR JOB IS TO COLLECT EVERY PENNY YOU CAN NO MATTER WHAT. 468 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,523 AND THEY'VE TRAINED THE STAFF, LOOK, YOUR JOB IS TO COLLECT EVERY PENNY YOU CAN NO MATTER WHAT. 469 00:26:31,589 --> 00:26:36,000 >> THE SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUND FOR RETIREMENT AND DISABILITY BENEFITS IS EXPECTED TO BE DEPLETED AROUND 2035 470 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,629 >> THE SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUND FOR RETIREMENT AND DISABILITY BENEFITS IS EXPECTED TO BE DEPLETED AROUND 2035 471 00:26:37,696 --> 00:26:42,000 BECAUSE THE BENEFITS BEING PAID OUT ARE GREATER THAN THE PAYROLL TAXES COMING IN. BUT KOTLIKOFF AND SAVAGE ARGUE 472 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,235 BECAUSE THE BENEFITS BEING PAID OUT ARE GREATER THAN THE PAYROLL TAXES COMING IN. BUT KOTLIKOFF AND SAVAGE ARGUE 473 00:26:44,302 --> 00:26:48,000 THAT CLAWING BACK MONEY FROM THE ELDERLY AND DISABLED ISN'T GOING TO MAKE MUCH OF A DENT IN THAT PROBLEM. 474 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,575 THAT CLAWING BACK MONEY FROM THE ELDERLY AND DISABLED ISN'T GOING TO MAKE MUCH OF A DENT IN THAT PROBLEM. 475 00:26:50,642 --> 00:26:54,000 THEY SAY THERE ARE SOME SIMPLE THINGS CONGRESS AND THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION COULD DO TO ALLEVIATE THE STRESS AND 476 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,448 THEY SAY THERE ARE SOME SIMPLE THINGS CONGRESS AND THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION COULD DO TO ALLEVIATE THE STRESS AND 477 00:26:56,514 --> 00:27:00,000 FINANCIAL DIFFICULTY CAUSED Y OVERPAYMENTS. FOR EXAMPLE -- >> SHOULDN'T THERE BE A STATUTE 478 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,690 FINANCIAL DIFFICULTY CAUSED Y OVERPAYMENTS. FOR EXAMPLE -- >> SHOULDN'T THERE BE A STATUTE 479 00:27:05,757 --> 00:27:06,000 OF LIMITATIONS SO THAT AFTER 18 MONTHS, IT'S THEIR MISTAKE AND THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT, NOT THE PERSON WHO MISTAKENLY 480 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,595 OF LIMITATIONS SO THAT AFTER 18 MONTHS, IT'S THEIR MISTAKE AND THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT, NOT THE PERSON WHO MISTAKENLY 481 00:27:10,662 --> 00:27:12,000 RECEIVED AND LIVED ON THAT BENEFIT CHECK? >> IF IT'S MORE THAN A YEAR OR TWO -- 482 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,468 RECEIVED AND LIVED ON THAT BENEFIT CHECK? >> IF IT'S MORE THAN A YEAR OR TWO -- 483 00:27:16,534 --> 00:27:18,000 >> JUST WAIVE IT. JUST SAY, OUR MISTAKE, YOU'RE FINE. >> ROY FARMER IN MICHIGAN HAS 484 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:24,000 >> JUST WAIVE IT. JUST SAY, OUR MISTAKE, YOU'RE FINE. >> ROY FARMER IN MICHIGAN HAS 485 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:24,409 >> JUST WAIVE IT. JUST SAY, OUR MISTAKE, YOU'RE FINE. >> ROY FARMER IN MICHIGAN HAS 486 00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:30,000 BEEN WAITING FOUR MONTHS TO APPEAL HIS CASE BEFORE AN ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE WHO WORKS FOR SOCIAL SECURITY. 487 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,249 BEEN WAITING FOUR MONTHS TO APPEAL HIS CASE BEFORE AN ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE WHO WORKS FOR SOCIAL SECURITY. 488 00:27:31,316 --> 00:27:36,000 JEAN AND GLENN RODRIGUEZ TOLD US THEY'VE BEEN WAITING FOUR YEARS. AS FOR THE SWORDS IN CHICAGO, STEVEN AND BECKY TOLD US THEY 489 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,189 JEAN AND GLENN RODRIGUEZ TOLD US THEY'VE BEEN WAITING FOUR YEARS. AS FOR THE SWORDS IN CHICAGO, STEVEN AND BECKY TOLD US THEY 490 00:27:38,256 --> 00:27:42,000 WERE TIRED OF FIGHTING THE GOVERNMENT AND HAD DECIDED NOT TO APPEAL THE MATTER ANY FURTHER. 491 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,995 WERE TIRED OF FIGHTING THE GOVERNMENT AND HAD DECIDED NOT TO APPEAL THE MATTER ANY FURTHER. 492 00:27:44,062 --> 00:27:48,000 >> I JUST FIGURE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE UP OUR RETIREMENT FUNDS. >> THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU 493 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,369 >> I JUST FIGURE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE UP OUR RETIREMENT FUNDS. >> THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU 494 00:27:51,436 --> 00:27:54,000 CAN -- >> THAT'S THE ONLY WAY, YEAH. BECAUSE THEY SAID WE'D HAVE TO PAY IT BACK IN THREE YEAR'S 495 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,509 CAN -- >> THAT'S THE ONLY WAY, YEAH. BECAUSE THEY SAID WE'D HAVE TO PAY IT BACK IN THREE YEAR'S 496 00:27:57,575 --> 00:28:00,000 TIME. WE'D HAVE TO COME UP WITH $1,400 A MONTH TO PAY IT BACK. WE DON'T HAVE HAT KIND OF 497 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:00,011 TIME. WE'D HAVE TO COME UP WITH $1,400 A MONTH TO PAY IT BACK. WE DON'T HAVE HAT KIND OF 498 00:28:00,078 --> 00:28:06,000 MONEY. >> WHEN STEVEN SWORD WAS NOT WORKING THE NIGHT SHIFT AND BECKY SWORD WAS NOT WORKING THE 499 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,685 MONEY. >> WHEN STEVEN SWORD WAS NOT WORKING THE NIGHT SHIFT AND BECKY SWORD WAS NOT WORKING THE 500 00:28:07,752 --> 00:28:12,000 DAY SHIFT, THEY WERE PREPARING TO HAND OVER MOST OF THE $60,000 THEY HAD SUPPORT. RECEIVED PHONE CALLS FROM THE 501 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:18,000 DAY SHIFT, THEY WERE PREPARING TO HAND OVER MOST OF THE $60,000 THEY HAD SUPPORT. RECEIVED PHONE CALLS FROM THE 502 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:24,000 DAY SHIFT, THEY WERE PREPARING TO HAND OVER MOST OF THE $60,000 THEY HAD SUPPORT. RECEIVED PHONE CALLS FROM THE 503 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,471 DAY SHIFT, THEY WERE PREPARING TO HAND OVER MOST OF THE $60,000 THEY HAD SUPPORT. RECEIVED PHONE CALLS FROM THE 504 00:28:26,538 --> 00:28:30,000 AGENCY SAYING THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY THE MONEY BACK AFTER ALL. IN MARCH, THE NEW SOCIAL 505 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,843 AGENCY SAYING THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY THE MONEY BACK AFTER ALL. IN MARCH, THE NEW SOCIAL 506 00:28:31,910 --> 00:28:36,000 SECURITY COMMISSIONER MARTIN O'MALLEY CITED OUR STORY WHEN HE TOLD A SENATE COMMITTEE HE WAS CHANGING THE WAY HIS AGENCY 507 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,750 SECURITY COMMISSIONER MARTIN O'MALLEY CITED OUR STORY WHEN HE TOLD A SENATE COMMITTEE HE WAS CHANGING THE WAY HIS AGENCY 508 00:28:38,817 --> 00:28:42,000 HANDLES OVERPAYMENTS. SOCIAL SECURITY SAYS IT WILL NO LONGER WITHHOLD MORE THAN 10% OF A MONTHLY CHECK TO RECOVER AN 509 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,758 HANDLES OVERPAYMENTS. SOCIAL SECURITY SAYS IT WILL NO LONGER WITHHOLD MORE THAN 10% OF A MONTHLY CHECK TO RECOVER AN 510 00:28:46,825 --> 00:28:48,000 OVERPAYMENT, AND IT WILL MAKE EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO RECEIVER WAIVERS IN CASES WHERE THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD. 511 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:54,000 OVERPAYMENT, AND IT WILL MAKE EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO RECEIVER WAIVERS IN CASES WHERE THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD. 512 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,101 OVERPAYMENT, AND IT WILL MAKE EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO RECEIVER WAIVERS IN CASES WHERE THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD. 513 00:28:56,167 --> 00:29:00,000 >>> HOW TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT OVERPAID BY SOCIAL SECURITY AT 60 MINUTE YOEF >>> SOMETHING AKIN TO THE 514 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:06,000 >>> HOW TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT OVERPAID BY SOCIAL SECURITY AT 60 MINUTE YOEF >>> SOMETHING AKIN TO THE 515 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:11,916 >>> HOW TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT OVERPAID BY SOCIAL SECURITY AT 60 MINUTE YOEF >>> SOMETHING AKIN TO THE 516 00:29:11,983 --> 00:29:12,000 CALIFORNIA GOLD RUSH IS HAPPENING IN THE EASTERN PACIFIC, AN INTERNATIONAL MAD DASH, NOT FOR ONE PRECIOUS METAL 517 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,000 CALIFORNIA GOLD RUSH IS HAPPENING IN THE EASTERN PACIFIC, AN INTERNATIONAL MAD DASH, NOT FOR ONE PRECIOUS METAL 518 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,324 CALIFORNIA GOLD RUSH IS HAPPENING IN THE EASTERN PACIFIC, AN INTERNATIONAL MAD DASH, NOT FOR ONE PRECIOUS METAL 519 00:29:19,390 --> 00:29:24,000 BUT FOR VAST QUANTITIES OF MINERALS SCATTERED ACROSS THE OCEAN FLOOR, VITAL FOR EVERYTHING FROM ELECTRIC CARS TO 520 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,833 BUT FOR VAST QUANTITIES OF MINERALS SCATTERED ACROSS THE OCEAN FLOOR, VITAL FOR EVERYTHING FROM ELECTRIC CARS TO 521 00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:30,000 DEFENSE SYSTEMS. TO AVOID A FREE FOR ALL, 168 COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA, HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE UNITED NATIONS 522 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:36,000 DEFENSE SYSTEMS. TO AVOID A FREE FOR ALL, 168 COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA, HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE UNITED NATIONS 523 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,774 DEFENSE SYSTEMS. TO AVOID A FREE FOR ALL, 168 COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA, HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE UNITED NATIONS 524 00:29:36,841 --> 00:29:42,000 LAW OF THE SEA, A TREATY THAT DIVVIES UP THE INTERNATIONAL SEABED. CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT IS THE 525 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:42,614 LAW OF THE SEA, A TREATY THAT DIVVIES UP THE INTERNATIONAL SEABED. CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT IS THE 526 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:48,000 UNITED STATES, KEPT OUT OF THE RACE BY A GROUP OF REPUBLICAN SENATORS WHO SAY THE TREATY UNDERMINES AMERICAN POWER. 527 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,457 UNITED STATES, KEPT OUT OF THE RACE BY A GROUP OF REPUBLICAN SENATORS WHO SAY THE TREATY UNDERMINES AMERICAN POWER. 528 00:29:52,524 --> 00:29:54,000 DESPITE EFFORTS BY FIVE PRESIDENTS, RATIFYING THE TREATY HAS HIT A WALL IN THE SENATE YEAR AFTER YEAR. 529 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,296 DESPITE EFFORTS BY FIVE PRESIDENTS, RATIFYING THE TREATY HAS HIT A WALL IN THE SENATE YEAR AFTER YEAR. 530 00:29:58,363 --> 00:30:00,000 AS WE FIRST REPORTED IN MARCH, SEABED MINING IS SET TO BEGIN NEXT YEAR, AND CHINA IS IN PLACE TO DOMINATE IT. 531 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,970 AS WE FIRST REPORTED IN MARCH, SEABED MINING IS SET TO BEGIN NEXT YEAR, AND CHINA IS IN PLACE TO DOMINATE IT. 532 00:30:06,037 --> 00:30:12,000 NOW, A GROUP OF FORMER DIPLOMATS AND MILITARY LEADERS IS TRYING AGAIN TO BREAK THE LOG JAM IN THE SENATE. 533 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,348 NOW, A GROUP OF FORMER DIPLOMATS AND MILITARY LEADERS IS TRYING AGAIN TO BREAK THE LOG JAM IN THE SENATE. 534 00:30:17,415 --> 00:30:18,000 >> Reporter: 1,000 MILES FROM U.S. WATERS BETWEEN MEXICO AND HAWAII LIES THIS PATCH OF PACIFIC OCEAN. 535 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:24,000 >> Reporter: 1,000 MILES FROM U.S. WATERS BETWEEN MEXICO AND HAWAII LIES THIS PATCH OF PACIFIC OCEAN. 536 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:24,622 >> Reporter: 1,000 MILES FROM U.S. WATERS BETWEEN MEXICO AND HAWAII LIES THIS PATCH OF PACIFIC OCEAN. 537 00:30:24,689 --> 00:30:30,000 IT LOOKS TRANQUIL, BUT IT'S A LOCUS OF FIERCE COMPETITION. TO SEE WHAT'S AT STAKE, YOU HAVE TO PLUNGE TO THE BOTTOM. 538 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,966 IT LOOKS TRANQUIL, BUT IT'S A LOCUS OF FIERCE COMPETITION. TO SEE WHAT'S AT STAKE, YOU HAVE TO PLUNGE TO THE BOTTOM. 539 00:30:35,033 --> 00:30:36,000 SEE THOSE POTATO-SIZED ROCKS? THEY'RE FILLED WITH COBALT, NICKEL, MANGANESE, AND COPPER, SOME OF THE MOST VALUABLE METALS 540 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,606 SEE THOSE POTATO-SIZED ROCKS? THEY'RE FILLED WITH COBALT, NICKEL, MANGANESE, AND COPPER, SOME OF THE MOST VALUABLE METALS 541 00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:42,000 ON EARTH. >> ALL RIGHT, START COMING UP. >> Reporter: IN 2019, WE WENT ALONG ON A PILOT EXPEDITION, AS 542 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:48,000 ON EARTH. >> ALL RIGHT, START COMING UP. >> Reporter: IN 2019, WE WENT ALONG ON A PILOT EXPEDITION, AS 543 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,315 ON EARTH. >> ALL RIGHT, START COMING UP. >> Reporter: IN 2019, WE WENT ALONG ON A PILOT EXPEDITION, AS 544 00:30:50,381 --> 00:30:54,000 A CREW WITH CANADA'S METALS COMPANY HAULED ITS SUNKEN TREASURE TO THE SURFACE. >> THAT MANY OF THEM DOWN THERE. 545 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,622 A CREW WITH CANADA'S METALS COMPANY HAULED ITS SUNKEN TREASURE TO THE SURFACE. >> THAT MANY OF THEM DOWN THERE. 546 00:30:57,689 --> 00:31:00,000 >> IF THEY FOUND A DEPOSIT WITH THIS MUCH METAL CONCENTRATION ON LAND, IT WOULD BE A BONANZA THAT NOBODY WOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT 547 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:06,000 >> IF THEY FOUND A DEPOSIT WITH THIS MUCH METAL CONCENTRATION ON LAND, IT WOULD BE A BONANZA THAT NOBODY WOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT 548 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,664 >> IF THEY FOUND A DEPOSIT WITH THIS MUCH METAL CONCENTRATION ON LAND, IT WOULD BE A BONANZA THAT NOBODY WOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT 549 00:31:06,731 --> 00:31:12,000 FOR YEARS. >> TODAY THE RACE IS ON FOR THE ESTIMATED TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF STRATEGIC MINERALS ON THE 550 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:12,737 FOR YEARS. >> TODAY THE RACE IS ON FOR THE ESTIMATED TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF STRATEGIC MINERALS ON THE 551 00:31:12,804 --> 00:31:18,000 OCEAN FLOOR, VITAL FOR NEXT GENERATION ELECTRONICS. COUNTRIES THAT RATIFIED THE LAW OF THE SEA TREATY NOW ARE 552 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,679 OCEAN FLOOR, VITAL FOR NEXT GENERATION ELECTRONICS. COUNTRIES THAT RATIFIED THE LAW OF THE SEA TREATY NOW ARE 553 00:31:21,746 --> 00:31:24,000 TESTING GIANT ROBOTS THAT VACUUM THE MINERALS FROM THE SEA FLOOR. THEY'RE CARVING UP AND LAYING CLAIM TO PARCELS ON THE SEABED 554 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,000 TESTING GIANT ROBOTS THAT VACUUM THE MINERALS FROM THE SEA FLOOR. THEY'RE CARVING UP AND LAYING CLAIM TO PARCELS ON THE SEABED 555 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,658 TESTING GIANT ROBOTS THAT VACUUM THE MINERALS FROM THE SEA FLOOR. THEY'RE CARVING UP AND LAYING CLAIM TO PARCELS ON THE SEABED 556 00:31:33,725 --> 00:31:36,000 COVERED WITH RICH BALLS OF ORE. CHINA HAS FIVE SITES, 90,000 SQUARE MILES, THE MOST OF ANY COUNTRY. 557 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,899 COVERED WITH RICH BALLS OF ORE. CHINA HAS FIVE SITES, 90,000 SQUARE MILES, THE MOST OF ANY COUNTRY. 558 00:31:41,966 --> 00:31:42,000 THE UNITED STATES, NONE, BLOCKED FROM EVEN PUTTING A TOE IN THE WATER BY ITS REFUSAL TO RATIFY THE TREATY. 559 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,137 THE UNITED STATES, NONE, BLOCKED FROM EVEN PUTTING A TOE IN THE WATER BY ITS REFUSAL TO RATIFY THE TREATY. 560 00:31:46,204 --> 00:31:48,000 >> WE ARE NOT ONLY NOT AT THE TABLE, BUT WE'RE OFF THE FIELD. THE UNITED STATES PROBABLY HAS GOT THE MOST TO GAIN OF ANY 561 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:54,000 >> WE ARE NOT ONLY NOT AT THE TABLE, BUT WE'RE OFF THE FIELD. THE UNITED STATES PROBABLY HAS GOT THE MOST TO GAIN OF ANY 562 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,113 >> WE ARE NOT ONLY NOT AT THE TABLE, BUT WE'RE OFF THE FIELD. THE UNITED STATES PROBABLY HAS GOT THE MOST TO GAIN OF ANY 563 00:31:55,179 --> 00:32:00,000 COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IF IT WERE PARTY TO THE LAW OF THE SEA CONVENTION. AND CONVERSELY, WE ACTUALLY 564 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,452 COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IF IT WERE PARTY TO THE LAW OF THE SEA CONVENTION. AND CONVERSELY, WE ACTUALLY 565 00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:06,000 PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE BY NOT BEING PART OF IT. >> JOHN BELLINGER IS A PARTNER AT THE D.C. LAW FIRM, ARNOLD & 566 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:12,000 PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE BY NOT BEING PART OF IT. >> JOHN BELLINGER IS A PARTNER AT THE D.C. LAW FIRM, ARNOLD & 567 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:12,030 PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE BY NOT BEING PART OF IT. >> JOHN BELLINGER IS A PARTNER AT THE D.C. LAW FIRM, ARNOLD & 568 00:32:12,096 --> 00:32:18,000 PORTER. IN 2012, HE TESTIFIED IN FAVOR OF THE TREATY IN SENATE HEARINGS AS A FORMAL LEGAL ADVISER TO 569 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,872 PORTER. IN 2012, HE TESTIFIED IN FAVOR OF THE TREATY IN SENATE HEARINGS AS A FORMAL LEGAL ADVISER TO 570 00:32:20,938 --> 00:32:24,000 GEORGE W. BUSH. HE TOLD US BUSH WAS NO FAN OF U.N. TREATIES, BUT HE SUPPORTED THIS ONE, NOT ONLY FOR CODIFYING 571 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,743 GEORGE W. BUSH. HE TOLD US BUSH WAS NO FAN OF U.N. TREATIES, BUT HE SUPPORTED THIS ONE, NOT ONLY FOR CODIFYING 572 00:32:25,810 --> 00:32:30,000 ACCESS TO THE DEEP SEABED, BUT ALSO FOR SAFEGUARDING THE FREE NAVIGATION OF U.S. SHIPS AROUND THE WORLD. 573 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,483 ACCESS TO THE DEEP SEABED, BUT ALSO FOR SAFEGUARDING THE FREE NAVIGATION OF U.S. SHIPS AROUND THE WORLD. 574 00:32:32,550 --> 00:32:36,000 BELLINGER TOLD US SUPPORT WAS SO BROAD IN 2012, HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A SLAM DUNK. >> PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH WAS 575 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,491 BELLINGER TOLD US SUPPORT WAS SO BROAD IN 2012, HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A SLAM DUNK. >> PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH WAS 576 00:32:40,558 --> 00:32:42,000 IN FAVOR? >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> U.S. INTELLIGENCE? >> YES. 577 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,000 IN FAVOR? >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> U.S. INTELLIGENCE? >> YES. 578 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:48,032 IN FAVOR? >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> U.S. INTELLIGENCE? >> YES. 579 00:32:48,099 --> 00:32:51,869 >> MILITARY? MAJOR BUSINESS GROUPS? BIG OIL? >> YES. 580 00:32:51,936 --> 00:32:54,000 AND ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AS WELL. HARD TO FIND ANY TREATY OR PROBABLY ANY PIECE OF 581 00:32:54,000 --> 00:33:00,000 AND ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AS WELL. HARD TO FIND ANY TREATY OR PROBABLY ANY PIECE OF 582 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,678 AND ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AS WELL. HARD TO FIND ANY TREATY OR PROBABLY ANY PIECE OF 583 00:33:00,745 --> 00:33:03,748 LEGISLATION THAT HAS SUCH BROAD SUPPORT. >> Reporter: YET IT FAILED. THE CONSERVATIVE HERITAGE 584 00:33:03,815 --> 00:33:06,000 FOUNDATION CONVINCED 34 REPUBLICAN SENATORS TO TURN THUMBS DOWN, SAYING IT WOULD SUBJUGATE THE UNITED STATES TO 585 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:06,084 FOUNDATION CONVINCED 34 REPUBLICAN SENATORS TO TURN THUMBS DOWN, SAYING IT WOULD SUBJUGATE THE UNITED STATES TO 586 00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:11,689 THE U.N. >> MY PROBLEM IS WITH SOVEREIGNTY. >> Reporter: THE LAW OF THE SEA 587 00:33:11,756 --> 00:33:12,000 WAS SUNK. >> IT SURPRISED ME THAT A NUMBER OF SENATORS WOULD TELL US IN THE GOVERNMENT, WE KNOW BETTER THAN 588 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:18,000 WAS SUNK. >> IT SURPRISED ME THAT A NUMBER OF SENATORS WOULD TELL US IN THE GOVERNMENT, WE KNOW BETTER THAN 589 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:18,262 WAS SUNK. >> IT SURPRISED ME THAT A NUMBER OF SENATORS WOULD TELL US IN THE GOVERNMENT, WE KNOW BETTER THAN 590 00:33:18,329 --> 00:33:24,000 YOU. WE KNOW BETTER THAN OUR U.S. MILITARY. WE KNOW BETTER THAN U.S. 591 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,803 YOU. WE KNOW BETTER THAN OUR U.S. MILITARY. WE KNOW BETTER THAN U.S. 592 00:33:25,870 --> 00:33:30,000 BUSINESS. >> DOES THE AMERICAN POSITION MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU? >> IT HONESTLY DOES NOT. 593 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:36,000 BUSINESS. >> DOES THE AMERICAN POSITION MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU? >> IT HONESTLY DOES NOT. 594 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:36,080 BUSINESS. >> DOES THE AMERICAN POSITION MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU? >> IT HONESTLY DOES NOT. 595 00:33:36,147 --> 00:33:42,000 THE OPPOSITION WAS NOT ON NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS OR ON BUSINESS REASONS. IT, TO ME, SEEMED JUST A 596 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,454 THE OPPOSITION WAS NOT ON NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS OR ON BUSINESS REASONS. IT, TO ME, SEEMED JUST A 597 00:33:43,521 --> 00:33:48,000 REFLEXIVE, IDEOLOGICAL OPPOSITION TO JOINING THE TREATY. >> Reporter: SINCE 2012, WHILE 598 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,964 REFLEXIVE, IDEOLOGICAL OPPOSITION TO JOINING THE TREATY. >> Reporter: SINCE 2012, WHILE 599 00:33:53,030 --> 00:33:54,000 REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO RATIFY THE TREATY HAVE FAILED, CHINA HAS MADE DEEP SEA MINING A NATIONAL PRIORITY. 600 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,871 REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO RATIFY THE TREATY HAVE FAILED, CHINA HAS MADE DEEP SEA MINING A NATIONAL PRIORITY. 601 00:33:59,937 --> 00:34:00,000 IT ALREADY HAS A NEAR MONOPOLY OF THE CRITICAL MINERALS ON LAND. NOW IT'S SET TO LOCK UP THE 602 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:06,000 IT ALREADY HAS A NEAR MONOPOLY OF THE CRITICAL MINERALS ON LAND. NOW IT'S SET TO LOCK UP THE 603 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:06,444 IT ALREADY HAS A NEAR MONOPOLY OF THE CRITICAL MINERALS ON LAND. NOW IT'S SET TO LOCK UP THE 604 00:34:06,511 --> 00:34:12,000 BOUNTY ON THE SEA FLOOR. AMBASSADOR JOHN NEGROPONTE, A FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE IN THE BUSH 605 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,150 BOUNTY ON THE SEA FLOOR. AMBASSADOR JOHN NEGROPONTE, A FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE IN THE BUSH 606 00:34:12,216 --> 00:34:18,000 ADMINISTRATION, TOLD US, CHINA'S AGGRESSIVE ACTIONS SHOULD BE SETTING OFF ALARMS. >> WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE 2012? 607 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,859 ADMINISTRATION, TOLD US, CHINA'S AGGRESSIVE ACTIONS SHOULD BE SETTING OFF ALARMS. >> WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE 2012? 608 00:34:21,926 --> 00:34:24,000 >> THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AND ITS MORE ASSERTIVE BEHAVIOR ON THE INTERNATIONAL SCENE, PARTICULARLY IN THE SOUTH 609 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,667 >> THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AND ITS MORE ASSERTIVE BEHAVIOR ON THE INTERNATIONAL SCENE, PARTICULARLY IN THE SOUTH 610 00:34:29,734 --> 00:34:30,000 CHINA SEA. AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO DEEP SEABED MINING, THEY'RE EATING OUR LUNCH. 611 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,940 CHINA SEA. AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO DEEP SEABED MINING, THEY'RE EATING OUR LUNCH. 612 00:34:36,007 --> 00:34:42,000 THEY'VE GOT ACCESS TO FIVE SITES. RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE ACCESS TO NONE. 613 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,880 THEY'VE GOT ACCESS TO FIVE SITES. RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE ACCESS TO NONE. 614 00:34:42,947 --> 00:34:48,000 >> Reporter: JOHN NEGROPONTE IS ONE OF A NUMBER OF SENIOR REPUBLICANS URGING THE SENATE TO RECONSIDER AND RATIFY THE 615 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,990 >> Reporter: JOHN NEGROPONTE IS ONE OF A NUMBER OF SENIOR REPUBLICANS URGING THE SENATE TO RECONSIDER AND RATIFY THE 616 00:34:53,057 --> 00:34:54,000 TREATY. IF IT DOESN'T, THE U.S. CAN'T GET A LICENSE FROM THE U.N.-BACKED SEABED AUTHORITY TO 617 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:54,959 TREATY. IF IT DOESN'T, THE U.S. CAN'T GET A LICENSE FROM THE U.N.-BACKED SEABED AUTHORITY TO 618 00:34:55,026 --> 00:35:00,000 MINE THE OCEAN BOTTOM. IT WON'T HAVE A SAY IN DRAFTING ENVIRONMENTAL RULES FOR MINING THE DEEP. 619 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,937 MINE THE OCEAN BOTTOM. IT WON'T HAVE A SAY IN DRAFTING ENVIRONMENTAL RULES FOR MINING THE DEEP. 620 00:35:06,003 --> 00:35:12,000 ABSENT THE U.S., CHINA IS THE HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE ROOM. >> SO, DOES IT SEEM TO YOU THAT WE'RE JUST, SORT OF, GIVING THIS 621 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:12,276 ABSENT THE U.S., CHINA IS THE HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE ROOM. >> SO, DOES IT SEEM TO YOU THAT WE'RE JUST, SORT OF, GIVING THIS 622 00:35:12,343 --> 00:35:18,000 RESOURCE TO THE CHINESE WITHOUT ANY PUSHBACK FROM US? >> WE ARE CONCEDING. IF WE'RE NOT AT THE TABLE AND 623 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:18,049 RESOURCE TO THE CHINESE WITHOUT ANY PUSHBACK FROM US? >> WE ARE CONCEDING. IF WE'RE NOT AT THE TABLE AND 624 00:35:18,115 --> 00:35:24,000 WE'RE NOT MEMBERS OF THE SEABED AUTHORITY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A VOICE IN WRITING THE ENVIRONMENTAL GUIDELINES FOR 625 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:24,222 WE'RE NOT MEMBERS OF THE SEABED AUTHORITY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A VOICE IN WRITING THE ENVIRONMENTAL GUIDELINES FOR 626 00:35:24,288 --> 00:35:30,000 DEEP SEABED MINING. WELL, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER TO SEE WRITING THOSE GUIDELINES, THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA 627 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,763 DEEP SEABED MINING. WELL, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER TO SEE WRITING THOSE GUIDELINES, THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA 628 00:35:32,830 --> 00:35:36,000 OR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? >> IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO A CONSERVATIVE TO SAY, THESE MINERALS THAT ARE IN THE DEEP 629 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,003 OR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? >> IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO A CONSERVATIVE TO SAY, THESE MINERALS THAT ARE IN THE DEEP 630 00:35:39,070 --> 00:35:42,000 SEABED ARE SO IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES, WE ARE DONE WITHOUT THOSE. LET'S PUT AN INTERNATIONAL 631 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,945 SEABED ARE SO IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES, WE ARE DONE WITHOUT THOSE. LET'S PUT AN INTERNATIONAL 632 00:35:48,012 --> 00:35:53,951 BUREAUCRACY IN CHARGE OF GETTING US ACCESS TO THEM. >> Reporter: STEVEN GROVES IS A SENIOR POLICY ANALYST AT THE 633 00:35:54,018 --> 00:35:59,190 HERITAGE FOUNDATION. HE WAS SPECIAL COUNSEL IN DONALD TRUMP'S WHITE HOUSE. IN 2012, GROVES TESTIFIED THAT 634 00:35:59,257 --> 00:36:00,000 THE U.S. DIDN'T NEED ANYONE'S PERMISSION TO MINE THE SEABED. HIS VIEWS HAVEN'T CHANGED. >> WHAT BUSINESSMAN IN THEIR 635 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:06,000 THE U.S. DIDN'T NEED ANYONE'S PERMISSION TO MINE THE SEABED. HIS VIEWS HAVEN'T CHANGED. >> WHAT BUSINESSMAN IN THEIR 636 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,297 THE U.S. DIDN'T NEED ANYONE'S PERMISSION TO MINE THE SEABED. HIS VIEWS HAVEN'T CHANGED. >> WHAT BUSINESSMAN IN THEIR 637 00:36:06,364 --> 00:36:12,000 RIGHT MIND SAID, I'M GOING TO INVEST TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO A COMPANY THAT I WILL THEN HAVE TO GO AND ASK 638 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,004 RIGHT MIND SAID, I'M GOING TO INVEST TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO A COMPANY THAT I WILL THEN HAVE TO GO AND ASK 639 00:36:13,070 --> 00:36:18,000 PERMISSION FROM AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION TO ENGAGE IN DEEP SEABED MINING. >> BUT NO GENERAL COUNSEL, NO 640 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:24,000 PERMISSION FROM AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION TO ENGAGE IN DEEP SEABED MINING. >> BUT NO GENERAL COUNSEL, NO 641 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:24,282 PERMISSION FROM AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION TO ENGAGE IN DEEP SEABED MINING. >> BUT NO GENERAL COUNSEL, NO 642 00:36:24,348 --> 00:36:30,000 BOARD OF A COMPANY, IF FACED WITH A CLEAR RIGHT UNDER A TREATY THAT SAYS, YOU CAN GO AND DO THIS, OR TAKING AN ACTION 643 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,293 BOARD OF A COMPANY, IF FACED WITH A CLEAR RIGHT UNDER A TREATY THAT SAYS, YOU CAN GO AND DO THIS, OR TAKING AN ACTION 644 00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:36,000 THAT'S FLATLY CONTRARY TO THE TREATY, OF COURSE THE COMPANIES ARE GOING TO SAY, I WANT TO TAKE THE CLEARLY LAWFUL ROUTE BEFORE 645 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:41,999 THAT'S FLATLY CONTRARY TO THE TREATY, OF COURSE THE COMPANIES ARE GOING TO SAY, I WANT TO TAKE THE CLEARLY LAWFUL ROUTE BEFORE 646 00:36:42,066 --> 00:36:48,000 I INVEST BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. >> Reporter: LAWYER JOHN BELLINGER TOLD US U.S. COMPANIES INTERESTED IN MINING THE SEABED 647 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,674 I INVEST BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. >> Reporter: LAWYER JOHN BELLINGER TOLD US U.S. COMPANIES INTERESTED IN MINING THE SEABED 648 00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:54,000 WANT THE LEGAL GUARANTEES OF THE TREATY. BUT EVEN AS OTHER COUNTRIES MOVE AHEAD, STEVEN GROVES INSISTS 649 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,348 WANT THE LEGAL GUARANTEES OF THE TREATY. BUT EVEN AS OTHER COUNTRIES MOVE AHEAD, STEVEN GROVES INSISTS 650 00:36:57,415 --> 00:37:00,000 AMERICAN COMPANIES ARE STAYING AWAY SH NOT BECAUSE THE U.S. HASN'T RATIFIED A TREATY BUT BECAUSE DEEP SEA MINING ISN'T 651 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:06,000 AMERICAN COMPANIES ARE STAYING AWAY SH NOT BECAUSE THE U.S. HASN'T RATIFIED A TREATY BUT BECAUSE DEEP SEA MINING ISN'T 652 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,124 AMERICAN COMPANIES ARE STAYING AWAY SH NOT BECAUSE THE U.S. HASN'T RATIFIED A TREATY BUT BECAUSE DEEP SEA MINING ISN'T 653 00:37:07,191 --> 00:37:11,762 VIABLE. >> IF CHINA WANTS TO GO AND THINK THAT IT'S ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE TO DRAG THOSE NODULES 654 00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:12,000 UP TO THE SURFACE AND PROCESS THEM, LET THEM DO IT. THE UNITED STATES HAS DECIDED TO STAY OUT OF THE GAME. 655 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:17,101 UP TO THE SURFACE AND PROCESS THEM, LET THEM DO IT. THE UNITED STATES HAS DECIDED TO STAY OUT OF THE GAME. 656 00:37:17,168 --> 00:37:18,000 THE ONE U.S. COMPANY THAT HAD RIGHTS TO THE DEEP SEABED GOT OUT OF THE GAME. THAT'S LOCKHEED MARTIN. 657 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:24,000 THE ONE U.S. COMPANY THAT HAD RIGHTS TO THE DEEP SEABED GOT OUT OF THE GAME. THAT'S LOCKHEED MARTIN. 658 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:24,041 THE ONE U.S. COMPANY THAT HAD RIGHTS TO THE DEEP SEABED GOT OUT OF THE GAME. THAT'S LOCKHEED MARTIN. 659 00:37:24,108 --> 00:37:27,678 >> U.S. COMPANIES WILL TELL YOU IT'S BECAUSE THERE'S UNCERTAINTY. >> WHAT U.S. COMPANIES? 660 00:37:27,745 --> 00:37:30,000 >> LOCKHEED. >> LOCKHEED IS OUT OF THE GAME. >> THEY'LL TELL YOU -- THEIR INVESTORS, THEIR COUNSEL ALL 661 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:36,000 >> LOCKHEED. >> LOCKHEED IS OUT OF THE GAME. >> THEY'LL TELL YOU -- THEIR INVESTORS, THEIR COUNSEL ALL 662 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,088 >> LOCKHEED. >> LOCKHEED IS OUT OF THE GAME. >> THEY'LL TELL YOU -- THEIR INVESTORS, THEIR COUNSEL ALL 663 00:37:37,154 --> 00:37:41,459 SAY, IF WE DON'T HAVE THIS TREATY, WE'RE GETTING OUT OF THIS. >> THEY'RE ALREADY OUT OF THE 664 00:37:41,525 --> 00:37:42,000 IT. THEY QUIT. >> WELL, THAT'S A BUSINESS DECISION THEY MADE. 665 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:48,000 IT. THEY QUIT. >> WELL, THAT'S A BUSINESS DECISION THEY MADE. 666 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:48,466 IT. THEY QUIT. >> WELL, THAT'S A BUSINESS DECISION THEY MADE. 667 00:37:48,532 --> 00:37:53,337 >> Reporter: LOCKHEED MARTIN HAS NOT QUIT. THE DEFENSE GIANT HAD RIGHTS TO FOUR PACIFIC SEABED SITES. 668 00:37:53,404 --> 00:37:54,000 IT SOLD TWO AND IS HOLDING ONTO TWO IN CASE THE TREATY PASSES. BUT LOCKHEED TOLD US, IF THE U.S. DOESN'T RATIFY THE TREATY, 669 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,643 IT SOLD TWO AND IS HOLDING ONTO TWO IN CASE THE TREATY PASSES. BUT LOCKHEED TOLD US, IF THE U.S. DOESN'T RATIFY THE TREATY, 670 00:37:58,709 --> 00:38:00,000 IT CAN'T DIVE IN. AMBASSADOR JOHN NEGROPONTE TOLD US THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS STANDING IN THE WAY. 671 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,000 IT CAN'T DIVE IN. AMBASSADOR JOHN NEGROPONTE TOLD US THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS STANDING IN THE WAY. 672 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,184 IT CAN'T DIVE IN. AMBASSADOR JOHN NEGROPONTE TOLD US THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS STANDING IN THE WAY. 673 00:38:07,251 --> 00:38:12,000 >> WHAT HERITAGE IS SAYING IS, WE DON'T EVEN WANT TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE. WE KNOW THE ANSWER ALREADY. 674 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,792 >> WHAT HERITAGE IS SAYING IS, WE DON'T EVEN WANT TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE. WE KNOW THE ANSWER ALREADY. 675 00:38:14,859 --> 00:38:18,000 AND I -- YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S, SORT OF, HYPOTHETICAL THINKING. THE PRAGMATIC APPROACH WOULD BE 676 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,767 AND I -- YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S, SORT OF, HYPOTHETICAL THINKING. THE PRAGMATIC APPROACH WOULD BE 677 00:38:22,833 --> 00:38:24,000 TO SAY, OKAY, LET US HAVE ACCESS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. >> WE COULD END UP BEING EVEN MORE DEPENDENT THAN WE ARE TODAY 678 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:30,000 TO SAY, OKAY, LET US HAVE ACCESS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. >> WE COULD END UP BEING EVEN MORE DEPENDENT THAN WE ARE TODAY 679 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:30,141 TO SAY, OKAY, LET US HAVE ACCESS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. >> WE COULD END UP BEING EVEN MORE DEPENDENT THAN WE ARE TODAY 680 00:38:30,207 --> 00:38:36,000 ON CHINA FOR ACCESS TO THESE MINERALS? >> IF THEY END UP BEING THE LARGEST PRODUCER AND WE'RE NOT 681 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,983 ON CHINA FOR ACCESS TO THESE MINERALS? >> IF THEY END UP BEING THE LARGEST PRODUCER AND WE'RE NOT 682 00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:42,000 PRODUCING AT ALL, THAT MIGHT PLACE US IN A DIFFICULT ECONOMIC POSITION. >> BUT NATIONAL SECURITY FEARS 683 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:48,000 PRODUCING AT ALL, THAT MIGHT PLACE US IN A DIFFICULT ECONOMIC POSITION. >> BUT NATIONAL SECURITY FEARS 684 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:48,426 PRODUCING AT ALL, THAT MIGHT PLACE US IN A DIFFICULT ECONOMIC POSITION. >> BUT NATIONAL SECURITY FEARS 685 00:38:48,492 --> 00:38:54,000 OF CHINA'S GROWING PROWESS IN THE DEEP ARE ABOUT MORE THAN MINING. IN MARCH, A LETTER SIGNED BY 346 686 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,802 OF CHINA'S GROWING PROWESS IN THE DEEP ARE ABOUT MORE THAN MINING. IN MARCH, A LETTER SIGNED BY 346 687 00:38:57,868 --> 00:39:00,000 FORMER POLITICAL, NATIONAL SECURITY, AND MILITARY LEADERS, WARNED THAT CHINA WAS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF AMERICA'S ABSENCE 688 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,408 FORMER POLITICAL, NATIONAL SECURITY, AND MILITARY LEADERS, WARNED THAT CHINA WAS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF AMERICA'S ABSENCE 689 00:39:04,475 --> 00:39:06,000 FROM THE TREATY TO PURSUE OVERALL NAVAL SUPREMACY. >> OVER THE LAST DECADE -- AND I'VE DONE THE MATH -- CHINA HAS 690 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:12,000 FROM THE TREATY TO PURSUE OVERALL NAVAL SUPREMACY. >> OVER THE LAST DECADE -- AND I'VE DONE THE MATH -- CHINA HAS 691 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,051 FROM THE TREATY TO PURSUE OVERALL NAVAL SUPREMACY. >> OVER THE LAST DECADE -- AND I'VE DONE THE MATH -- CHINA HAS 692 00:39:14,118 --> 00:39:18,000 BUILT 20% MORE WARSHIPS VUITTON BY TONNAGE THAN THE UNITED STATES HAS. THEY BUILT -- WHILE THE U.S. 693 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:24,000 BUILT 20% MORE WARSHIPS VUITTON BY TONNAGE THAN THE UNITED STATES HAS. THEY BUILT -- WHILE THE U.S. 694 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,464 BUILT 20% MORE WARSHIPS VUITTON BY TONNAGE THAN THE UNITED STATES HAS. THEY BUILT -- WHILE THE U.S. 695 00:39:26,530 --> 00:39:30,000 NAVY BUILT 66. IT IS A TRULY MASSIVE EXPANSION IN NAVAL POWER. >> THOMAS SHUGART IS A FORMER 696 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,634 NAVY BUILT 66. IT IS A TRULY MASSIVE EXPANSION IN NAVAL POWER. >> THOMAS SHUGART IS A FORMER 697 00:39:30,701 --> 00:39:35,840 U.S. NAVY SUBMARINE WARFARE OFFICER AND A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN SECURITY. 698 00:39:35,906 --> 00:39:36,000 HE TOLD US, CHINA IS FLEXING ITS MARITIME MUSCLE BY CLAIMING THE SOUTH CHINA SEA AS ITS PRIVATE OCEAN. 699 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,879 HE TOLD US, CHINA IS FLEXING ITS MARITIME MUSCLE BY CLAIMING THE SOUTH CHINA SEA AS ITS PRIVATE OCEAN. 700 00:39:41,946 --> 00:39:42,000 IT HAS CHALLENGED THE TREATY'S NAVIGATION LAWS THAT ENSURE SAFE PASSAGE, BY HARASSING PASSING SHIPS, INCLUDING THE U.S. NAVY. 701 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:48,000 IT HAS CHALLENGED THE TREATY'S NAVIGATION LAWS THAT ENSURE SAFE PASSAGE, BY HARASSING PASSING SHIPS, INCLUDING THE U.S. NAVY. 702 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,755 IT HAS CHALLENGED THE TREATY'S NAVIGATION LAWS THAT ENSURE SAFE PASSAGE, BY HARASSING PASSING SHIPS, INCLUDING THE U.S. NAVY. 703 00:39:50,821 --> 00:39:54,000 IT HAS FIRED WATER CANNONS AT ITS NEIGHBORS, CAUSED COLLISIONS, EVEN FLASHED A MILITARY-GRADE LASER AT SHIPS. 704 00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:00,000 IT HAS FIRED WATER CANNONS AT ITS NEIGHBORS, CAUSED COLLISIONS, EVEN FLASHED A MILITARY-GRADE LASER AT SHIPS. 705 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,468 IT HAS FIRED WATER CANNONS AT ITS NEIGHBORS, CAUSED COLLISIONS, EVEN FLASHED A MILITARY-GRADE LASER AT SHIPS. 706 00:40:04,535 --> 00:40:06,000 STEVEN GROVES AT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION SAYS, THAT'S WHY THE TREATY IS MEANINGLESS. >> IT'S CHINA WHO IS A PARTY TO 707 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,840 STEVEN GROVES AT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION SAYS, THAT'S WHY THE TREATY IS MEANINGLESS. >> IT'S CHINA WHO IS A PARTY TO 708 00:40:09,907 --> 00:40:12,000 THE TREATY, WHO DOESN'T OBEY THE RULES OF THE ROAD. THEY'RE THE ONES GETTING INTO NEAR COLLISIONS WITH U.S. 709 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:18,000 THE TREATY, WHO DOESN'T OBEY THE RULES OF THE ROAD. THEY'RE THE ONES GETTING INTO NEAR COLLISIONS WITH U.S. 710 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:18,215 THE TREATY, WHO DOESN'T OBEY THE RULES OF THE ROAD. THEY'RE THE ONES GETTING INTO NEAR COLLISIONS WITH U.S. 711 00:40:18,282 --> 00:40:24,000 VESSELS IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA. THE UNITED STATES RESPECTS AND ADHERES TO INTERNATIONAL LAW. IT IS THE CHINESE WHO ARE 712 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,894 VESSELS IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA. THE UNITED STATES RESPECTS AND ADHERES TO INTERNATIONAL LAW. IT IS THE CHINESE WHO ARE 713 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:30,000 THE STOP LOSS HERE. AND THE IDEA THAT THE U.S. JOINING THE TREATY WOULD SOMEHOW CHANGE THAT CHINESE BEHAVIOR, 714 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,431 THE STOP LOSS HERE. AND THE IDEA THAT THE U.S. JOINING THE TREATY WOULD SOMEHOW CHANGE THAT CHINESE BEHAVIOR, 715 00:40:34,498 --> 00:40:36,000 HAS NO BASIS IN REALITY. >> EVERY TIME THE U.S. POINTS AT THEM AND SAYS, YOU'RE VIOLATING THE LAW, THEY VERY QUICKLY TURN 716 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,272 HAS NO BASIS IN REALITY. >> EVERY TIME THE U.S. POINTS AT THEM AND SAYS, YOU'RE VIOLATING THE LAW, THEY VERY QUICKLY TURN 717 00:40:41,338 --> 00:40:42,000 BACK AND SAY, WELL, YOU'RE NOT A SIGNATORY. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT? 718 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,442 BACK AND SAY, WELL, YOU'RE NOT A SIGNATORY. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT? 719 00:40:45,509 --> 00:40:48,000 WE ARE IN A MESSAGING CONTEST, AN EFFORT TO WIN HEARTS AND MINDS ALL OVER THE WORLD AGAINST CLEARLY WHAT IS OUR GREATEST 720 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:54,000 WE ARE IN A MESSAGING CONTEST, AN EFFORT TO WIN HEARTS AND MINDS ALL OVER THE WORLD AGAINST CLEARLY WHAT IS OUR GREATEST 721 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:54,218 WE ARE IN A MESSAGING CONTEST, AN EFFORT TO WIN HEARTS AND MINDS ALL OVER THE WORLD AGAINST CLEARLY WHAT IS OUR GREATEST 722 00:40:54,285 --> 00:40:57,421 STRATEGIC COMPETITOR. >> FORMER SUBMARINE CAPTAIN THOMAS SHUGART TOLD US, BEING OUTSIDE THE TREATY UNDERCUTS 723 00:40:57,488 --> 00:41:00,000 AMERICAN CREDIBILITY, WHILE CHINA IS LASER FOCUSED ON BUILDING ITS MARITIME POWER. HE TOLD US CHINA'S DEEP SEA 724 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:06,000 AMERICAN CREDIBILITY, WHILE CHINA IS LASER FOCUSED ON BUILDING ITS MARITIME POWER. HE TOLD US CHINA'S DEEP SEA 725 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:06,263 AMERICAN CREDIBILITY, WHILE CHINA IS LASER FOCUSED ON BUILDING ITS MARITIME POWER. HE TOLD US CHINA'S DEEP SEA 726 00:41:06,330 --> 00:41:12,000 MINERS HAVE A SECOND MISSION, COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR THE CHINESE MILITARY. >> THE TECHNOLOGY THAT THESE 727 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,270 MINERS HAVE A SECOND MISSION, COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR THE CHINESE MILITARY. >> THE TECHNOLOGY THAT THESE 728 00:41:13,337 --> 00:41:18,000 COMPANIES USE TO MINE THE SEABED, DO THEY ALSO HAVE A MILITARY APPLICATION? >> ABSOLUTELY. 729 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:18,008 COMPANIES USE TO MINE THE SEABED, DO THEY ALSO HAVE A MILITARY APPLICATION? >> ABSOLUTELY. 730 00:41:18,075 --> 00:41:21,712 IF YOU'RE GOING TO FIND SUBMARINES IN THE OCEAN, YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE BOTTOM LOOKS LIKE. 731 00:41:21,779 --> 00:41:24,000 YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE TEMPERATURE IS. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE SALINITY IS. 732 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,351 YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE TEMPERATURE IS. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE SALINITY IS. 733 00:41:27,418 --> 00:41:30,000 THE CHINA IS USING CIVILIAN VESSELS TO, SORT OF, ON THE SLY DO THOSE SURVEYS, THEN THAT COULD IMPROVE THEIR ABILITY TO 734 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:36,000 THE CHINA IS USING CIVILIAN VESSELS TO, SORT OF, ON THE SLY DO THOSE SURVEYS, THEN THAT COULD IMPROVE THEIR ABILITY TO 735 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:36,227 THE CHINA IS USING CIVILIAN VESSELS TO, SORT OF, ON THE SLY DO THOSE SURVEYS, THEN THAT COULD IMPROVE THEIR ABILITY TO 736 00:41:36,293 --> 00:41:42,000 FIND U.S. AND ALLIED SUBMARINES OVER TIME AS THEY BETTER UNDERSTAND THE UNDERSEA ENVIRONMENT. 737 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,366 FIND U.S. AND ALLIED SUBMARINES OVER TIME AS THEY BETTER UNDERSTAND THE UNDERSEA ENVIRONMENT. 738 00:41:42,433 --> 00:41:46,270 >> Reporter: BACK IN D.C., AMBASSADOR NEGROPONTE'S GROUP IS LOBBYING THE REPUBLICAN HOLDOUTS. 739 00:41:46,337 --> 00:41:48,000 WE DECIDED TO CALL THE SENATORS WHO TORPEDOED THE TREATY IN 2012 TO SEE IF ANYTHING HAD CHANGED. WE FOUND THEIR OPPOSITION AS 740 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:53,143 WE DECIDED TO CALL THE SENATORS WHO TORPEDOED THE TREATY IN 2012 TO SEE IF ANYTHING HAD CHANGED. WE FOUND THEIR OPPOSITION AS 741 00:41:53,210 --> 00:41:54,000 STRONG AS EVER. WITH THE U.S. SENATE LOCKED IN STALEMATE, CHINA IS FORGING AHEAD. 742 00:41:54,000 --> 00:42:00,000 STRONG AS EVER. WITH THE U.S. SENATE LOCKED IN STALEMATE, CHINA IS FORGING AHEAD. 743 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:06,000 STRONG AS EVER. WITH THE U.S. SENATE LOCKED IN STALEMATE, CHINA IS FORGING AHEAD. 744 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,694 STRONG AS EVER. WITH THE U.S. SENATE LOCKED IN STALEMATE, CHINA IS FORGING AHEAD. 745 00:42:10,761 --> 00:42:12,000 >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. STICK 746 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:18,000 >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. STICK 747 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:24,000 >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. STICK 748 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:30,000 >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. STICK 749 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:30,614 >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. STICK