1 00:00:11,077 --> 00:00:17,217 >>> UKRAINE HAS DOCUMENTED CASES OF MORE THAN 19,000 CHILDREN ABDUCTED BY RUSSIA DURING THE WAR. 2 00:00:17,283 --> 00:00:24,357 BUT THEY WORRY THE ACTUAL NUMBER IS CLOSER TO 300,000 CHILDREN. >> PUTIN! >> WE WANTED TO KNOW HOW RUSSIA 3 00:00:24,424 --> 00:00:36,002 WAS DOING IT AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO UKRAINE'S MISSING CHILDREN. "60 MINUTES" FOLLOWED ONE BRAVE 4 00:00:36,069 --> 00:00:40,206 GRANDMOTHER'S MISSION TO RESCUE HER GRANDSON FROM THE RUSSIANS. 5 00:00:43,977 --> 00:00:52,652 >>> IT WAS AMERICA'S DEADLIEST WILDFIRE IN 100 YEARS. AT LEAST 99 PEOPLE WERE KILLED. 2,000 HOMES AND BUSINESSES 6 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:57,056 DESTROYED. TONIGHT WE'LL EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED ON THE ISLAND OF MAUI. >> YOUR ENGINE WAS RIGHT THERE? 7 00:00:57,123 --> 00:01:04,697 >> YEP, RIGHT THERE. >> AND YOU'LL HEAR AN AMAZING RESCUE STORY FROM INSIDE THE INFERNO. 8 00:01:04,764 --> 00:01:08,301 >> YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT KIND OF HEROISM. 9 00:01:08,902 --> 00:01:17,644 ♪ >>> SO, YOU ARE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN'S BEST FRIEND. HIS UNDERBOSS. 10 00:01:17,710 --> 00:01:24,584 >> DON'T GET ME WRONG -- >> YOU ALSO HAVE A BREAKOUT ROLE AS TONY SOPRANO'S MOST TRUSTED ADVISER. 11 00:01:24,651 --> 00:01:30,990 WHO HAS THIS LIFE? LITTLE STEVEN VAN ZANDT. >> I DON'T WANT TO LIKEN BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN AS A MOB BOSS, BUT 12 00:01:31,057 --> 00:01:35,328 YOU'VE HAD THAT EXPERIENCE. YOU'VE DONE THAT DRILL. YOU KNEW -- >> I THOUGHT IT WAS DYNAMICS. 13 00:01:35,395 --> 00:01:43,269 I KNOW BEING THE ONLY GUY WHO'S NOT AFRAID TO TELL THE BOSS THE TRUTH. >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. 14 00:01:43,336 --> 00:01:50,410 >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. >> I'M JOHN WE'RE THEME. 15 00:01:50,477 --> 00:01:56,516 >> I'M CECILIA VEGA. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES AND MORE TONIGHT ON THIS SPECIAL 90-MINUTE 16 00:01:56,583 --> 00:02:03,857 EDITION OF "60 MINUTES." 17 00:02:08,194 --> 00:02:14,467 >>> IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR UKRAINIAN FAMILIES TO SHIELD THEIR CHILDREN FROM THE CONSTANT VIOLENCE OF RUSSIA'S WAR. 18 00:02:14,534 --> 00:02:18,238 BUT TONIGHT WE WILL TELL YOU ABOUT A LESSER KNOWN AND PERHAPS MORE SINISTER DANGER THEY FACE, THE RUSSIAN ABDUCTION OF 19 00:02:18,304 --> 00:02:25,678 UKRAINIAN CHILDREN. IN THE CHAOS OF WAR, EXACT NUMBERS ARE HARD TO COME BY. OFFICIALLY, THE UKRAINIAN 20 00:02:25,745 --> 00:02:31,951 GOVERNMENT HAS DOCUMENTED MORE THAN 19,000 CHILDREN TAKEN BY RUSSIA, BUT TOLD US THEY WORRY THE ACTUAL NUMBER COULD BE 21 00:02:32,018 --> 00:02:38,858 CLOSER TO 300,000 CHILDREN. THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT HAS CHARGED RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN AND HIS 22 00:02:38,925 --> 00:02:45,231 COMMISSIONER FOR CHILDREN'S RIGHTS WITH THE WAR CRIMES OF UNLAWFUL DEPORTATION AND TRANSFER OF CHILDREN. 23 00:02:45,298 --> 00:02:51,604 THIS SUMMER WE FOLLOWED ONE UKRAINIAN GRANDMOTHER ON AN UNDERCOVER MISSION, DEEP INTO ENEMY TERRITORY, TO FIND HER 24 00:02:51,671 --> 00:03:05,985 GRANDSON BEFORE HE COMPLETELY DISAPPEARED. POLINA PACKED WHAT LITTLE SHE COULD AND CAUGHT A 20-HOUR TRAIN 25 00:03:06,052 --> 00:03:16,029 FROM POLAND TO KYIV TO MEET WITH A NONPROFIT CALLED SAVE UKRAINE. THEY PROMISED TO HELP HER FIND 9-YEAR-OLD NIKITA. 26 00:03:16,095 --> 00:03:19,866 SHE TRAVELED LIGHT BUT CARRIED THE WEIGHT OF A GRANDMOTHER'S WORRY. >> Translator: HE MEANS 27 00:03:19,933 --> 00:03:28,775 EVERYTHING TO ME. HE IS MY AIR, MY SKY, MY WATER. I LIVE FOR HIM. HE'S MY LIFE. 28 00:03:28,841 --> 00:03:34,747 I LOVE HIM VERY MUCH. >> Reporter: POLINA, WHO ASKED US NOT TO USE HER LAST NAME, IS IN THE PROCESS OF FILING FOR 29 00:03:34,814 --> 00:03:43,456 GUARDIANSHIP OF HER GRANDSON. SHE LEFT UKRAINE SO SHE COULD WORK TO SUPPORT NIKITA, WHO HAS SPECIAL NEEDS. 30 00:03:43,523 --> 00:03:49,395 >> Translator: THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION STOLE HIM. THEY ABDUCTED HIM. >> Reporter: DID THE RUSSIANS 31 00:03:49,462 --> 00:03:55,768 ASK ANYONE FOR PERMISSION TO MOVE NIKITA? DID THEY TELL ANYONE THEY WERE MOVING HIM? 32 00:03:55,835 --> 00:04:03,776 >> Translator: NO, THEY DIDN'T TELL ANYONE ANYTHING. THEY SIMPLY REMOVED HIM AND HID HIM. 33 00:04:03,843 --> 00:04:10,149 >> Reporter: LAST OCTOBER NIKITA WAS LIVING IN A BOARDING SCHOOL FOR DISABLED CHILDREN WHEN RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES ORDERED ALL 34 00:04:10,216 --> 00:04:17,023 86 KIDS THERE TO BE TRANSFERRED DEEPER INTO RUSSIAN-CONTROLLED TERRITORY. >> Translator: I CAME HOME AFTER 35 00:04:17,090 --> 00:04:26,199 WORK, I OPENED INSTAGRAM AND THERE WAS A PICTURE OF MY CHILD, NIKITA, WITH A CAPTION, RUSSIA IS TAKING CHILDREN. 36 00:04:26,265 --> 00:04:32,038 >> Reporter: POLINA SAYS THE RUSSIANS PLAYED A CRUEL GAME OF HIDE AND SEEK, MOVING NIKITA AT LEAST THREE TIMES IN EIGHT 37 00:04:32,105 --> 00:04:37,710 MONTHS, INCLUDING TO AN ORPHANAGE IN RUSSIA. WHAT WERE THOSE EIGHT MONTHS LIKE FOR YOU? 38 00:04:37,777 --> 00:04:46,185 >> Translator: REALLY BAD, REALLY BAD. I WOULDN'T SLEEP AT NIGHT. I DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO WORK. 39 00:04:46,252 --> 00:04:55,194 I DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO LIVE BECAUSE I HAD NO ONE TO LIVE FOR. AND THEN I FOUND THIS WEBSITE, 40 00:04:55,261 --> 00:05:05,538 SAVE UKRAINE, ON FACEBOOK, AND I CALLED THEM. >> Reporter: THE PHONES NEVER SEEM TO STOP RINGING AT THE SAVE 41 00:05:05,605 --> 00:05:18,051 UKRAINE HEADQUARTERS IN KYIV. SO FAR THEY'VE RESCUED MORE THAN 200 KIDS FROM KINDERGARTENERS TO TEENAGERS. 42 00:05:18,117 --> 00:05:22,288 WE MET THE FOUNDER, MYKOLA KULEBA, AT ONE OF SAVE UKRAINE'S SHELTERS FOR REUNITED FAMILIES. HOW LONG DO THE FAMILIES STAY 43 00:05:22,355 --> 00:05:28,127 HERE? >> UP TO THREE MONTHS. >> Reporter: KULEBA SERVED AS UKRAINE'S PRESIDENTIAL 44 00:05:28,194 --> 00:05:36,602 COMMISSIONER FOR CHILDREN'S RIGHTS FOR NEARLY EIGHT YEARS. NOW HE RUNS THESE SECRET RESCUE MISSIONS, WHICH RELY ON AN 45 00:05:36,669 --> 00:05:44,577 UNDERGROUND NETWORK OF SAFE HOUSES AND VOLUNTEERS, INCLUDING RUSSIANS WHO OPPOSE THE WAR. >> I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY 46 00:05:44,644 --> 00:05:48,381 ORGANIZATIONS INVOLVED AND VOLUNTEERS. >> Reporter: DOZENS? >> MAYBE HUNDREDS. 47 00:05:48,448 --> 00:05:57,290 >> Reporter: HUNDREDS. IS THERE ONE PIECE OF ADVICE THAT EVERY MOTHER MUST KNOW BEFORE SHE STARTS THIS JOURNEY? 48 00:05:57,356 --> 00:06:06,365 >> WE EXPLAINING THEM THAT RUSSIANS WILL INTIMIDATE YOU. THEY WILL BE DOING EVERYTHING TO STOP YOU, TO PROVOKE YOU. 49 00:06:06,432 --> 00:06:16,976 THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD FOCUS ON YOUR CHILD. YOUR GOAL IS TO TAKE YOUR CHILD AND NOT BE AFRAID. 50 00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:25,618 >> Reporter: BUT IT'S HARD NOT TO BE AFRAID. THESE WOMEN HAVE TO TRAVEL ALONE WHILE THE MEN STAY BEHIND TO 51 00:06:25,685 --> 00:06:30,089 FIGHT. JUST BEFORE THE MOTHERS LEAVE, THEY GET A SAFETY BRIEFING WHERE THEY LEARN HOW TO CRAFT COVER 52 00:06:30,156 --> 00:06:37,830 STORIES FOR WHEN, INEVITABLY, THEY ARE INTEGRATED BY RUSSIAN FORCES. WHEN THEY RETURN, THEIR STORIES 53 00:06:37,897 --> 00:06:46,139 BECOME EVIDENCE THAT SAVE UKRAINE SENDS TO THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT. RUSSIA'S GOAL, KULEBA SAYS, IS 54 00:06:46,205 --> 00:06:55,148 TO STEAL THE UKRAINIAN KIDS' FUTURE BY ERASING THEIR PAST. >> THEIR PLANS TO DESTROY UKRAINIAN IDENTITY. 55 00:06:55,214 --> 00:07:05,825 THEY BRAINWASH THEM, INDOCTRINATE THEM, RUSSIFY THEM. THEY HAVE SPECIAL CLASSES FOR UKRAINIAN CHILDREN, WHEN THEY 56 00:07:05,892 --> 00:07:15,401 TEACH THEM WHAT IS THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE, WHAT FUTURE THEY CAN HAVE IN RUSSIA BECAUSE ABOUT UKRAINE, IT'S ONLY BAD THINGS. 57 00:07:15,468 --> 00:07:21,374 >> Reporter: WHAT RISK DO THESE CHILDREN POSE TO RUSSIA IF THEY COME BACK HOME INTO UKRAINE? >> EVERY CHILD IS A WAR CRIME 58 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,478 WITNESS. >> Reporter: EVERY CHILD IS A WAR CRIME WITNESS? >> EVERY CHILD. 59 00:07:25,545 --> 00:07:32,885 YEAH, EVERY CHILD. >> Reporter: VLAD RUDENKO WAS 16 WHEN HE WAS TAKEN LAST OCTOBER. HE SAYS ARMED MEN SHOWED UP AT 60 00:07:32,952 --> 00:07:39,759 HIS DOOR WHILE HIS MOTHER, TETIANA BODAK, WAS OUT. >> Translator: THEY TOLD ME, YOU NEED TO PACK YOUR THINGS. 61 00:07:39,826 --> 00:07:48,768 I SAID, I WILL CALL MY MOM. THEY SAID, DON'T BOTHER, YOU ARE COMING WITH US ANYWAY. >> Reporter: AFTER THAT, VLAD 62 00:07:48,835 --> 00:07:54,307 SAYS HE WAS ORDERED TO BOARD A BUS, PART OF A 16-VEHICLE CONVOY, FULL OF KIDS THAT DROVE TO A CAMP IN RUSSIAN-CONTROLLED% 63 00:07:54,373 --> 00:08:05,585 CRIMEA. MOSCOW CLAIMS IT'S EVACUATING KIDS FROM THE FIGHTING IN EASTERN AND SOUTHERN UKRAINE. 64 00:08:05,651 --> 00:08:12,258 BUT WE'VE LEARNED RUSSIA OFTEN PRESSURES POOR UKRAINIAN PARENTS TO SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO SCHOOLS AND THESE CAMPS, WHERE 65 00:08:12,325 --> 00:08:17,630 THE KIDS SPEND THEIR DAYS WITH RUSSIAN CHILDREN. IMAGES OF HAPPY KIDS ARE THE PROPAGANDA RUSSIA WANTS THE 66 00:08:17,697 --> 00:08:26,606 WORLD TO SEE. BUT SEVERAL UKRAINIAN KIDS TOLD US WHAT HAPPENS IN THESE CAMPS IS LESS ABOUT RECREATION AND 67 00:08:26,672 --> 00:08:39,752 MORE ABOUT INDOCTRINATION. THEY ARE TOLD REPEATED LIES LIKE UKRAINE LOST THE WAR AND THEIR PARENTS DON'T WANT THEM. 68 00:08:39,819 --> 00:08:46,826 VLAD SECRETLY SENT HIS MOTHER THIS VIDEO AND SAID, SPEAKING UKRAINIAN, TALKING ABOUT UKRAINE OR EVEN WEARING UKRAINE'S COLORS 69 00:08:46,893 --> 00:08:55,268 WAS FORBIDDEN. EVERY MORNING AT A CAMP LIKE THIS, VLAD TOLD US THE UKRAINIAN CHILDREN WERE FORCED TO SING THE 70 00:08:55,334 --> 00:09:03,609 RUSSIAN NATIONAL ANTHEM. VLAD REFUSED TO FALL IN LINE. ONE NIGHT, HE DECIDED TO TAKE DOWN THE RUSSIAN FLAG. 71 00:09:03,676 --> 00:09:09,815 AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED? >> Translator: THEY CAME OVER AND TOLD ME TO PACK UP. THEY SAID WE ARE GOING TO THE 72 00:09:09,882 --> 00:09:17,456 DETENTION WARD. SO, WE WENT TO THE WARD AND I SAID, I'M NOT STAYING HERE. I'LL BREAK EVERYTHING IN HERE. 73 00:09:17,523 --> 00:09:23,296 THEY TOLD ME, WE'LL CALL A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL FOR YOU THEN. BUT IN THE END, THEY LOCKED ME 74 00:09:23,362 --> 00:09:30,870 UP ANYWAY IN THE DETENTION WARD FOR FIVE DAYS. >> Reporter: YOU WERE IN ISOLATION FOR FIVE DAYS? 75 00:09:30,937 --> 00:09:37,677 >> Translator: YES. ONE MORE DAY AND I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE HANGED MYSELF. >> Reporter: TETIANA, WHAT DO 76 00:09:37,743 --> 00:09:45,818 YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEAR THAT? >> Translator: I CAN'T. I JUST CAN'T FIND THE WORDS BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS 77 00:09:45,885 --> 00:09:54,927 HE DIDN'T TELL ME. AND MAYBE I AM SCARED TO FIND OUT SOMETHING THAT I'D BETTER NOT KNOW. 78 00:09:54,994 --> 00:10:01,801 >> Reporter: BY THE TIME TETIANA RESCUED VLAD WITH SAVE UKRAINE'S HELP, SHE HAD LOST EIGHT MONTHS WITH HER SON. 79 00:10:01,867 --> 00:10:10,710 DID HE LOOK DIFFERENT TO YOU? >> Translator: YES. I REMEMBER HE LEFT AS A KID, BUT THEN WHEN I MET HIM AGAIN, I SAW 80 00:10:10,776 --> 00:10:19,151 A MAN WITH AN ADULT VISION OF LIFE. HIS EYES JUST GAVE HIM UP. >> Reporter: POLINA COULDN'T 81 00:10:19,218 --> 00:10:31,063 RISK LOSING ANY MORE TIME WITH NIKITA. THE NIGHT BEFORE SHE LEFT, SHE GATHERED GIFTS FOR HER GRANDSON. 82 00:10:31,130 --> 00:10:38,537 THIS BUS STATION WAS AS FAR AS OUR CAMERAS COULD GO, BUT NINE DAYS IN, SHE MANAGED TO CALL WHILE WE WERE WITH THE SAVE 83 00:10:38,604 --> 00:10:46,545 UKRAINE TEAM. A TRANSLATOR RELAID HER HARROWING TRIP. >> I WAS MOVING THERE IN A CAR 84 00:10:46,612 --> 00:10:51,384 THROUGHOUT THAT MINEFIELD. THERE WAS A HEAVY SMELL OF DEAD BODIES THERE. >> Reporter: WHAT POLINA 85 00:10:51,450 --> 00:10:57,690 COULDN'T TELL US OVER THE PHONE WAS THAT SHE AND SAVE UKRAINE HATCHED A PLAN TO GET PAST A BORDER CHECKPOINT NEAR THE 86 00:10:57,757 --> 00:11:04,063 SCHOOL IN OCCUPIED TERRITORY WHERE NIKITA WAS HELD. SHE PRETENDED TO BE AN AID WORKER. 87 00:11:04,130 --> 00:11:12,638 HER DRIVER RECORDED AS SHE WALKED INTO THE BUILDING. >> Translator: THE DIRECTOR ASKED ME, HOW DID YOU GET HERE? 88 00:11:12,705 --> 00:11:19,011 I TOLD HIM, I'M A VOLUNTEER. I CAME HERE FROM POLAND AND BROUGHT YOU SOME HUMANITARIAN AID. 89 00:11:19,078 --> 00:11:25,584 I NEEDED TO SAY SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO SEE NIKITA AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET HIM OUT OF THERE. 90 00:11:25,651 --> 00:11:33,359 THIS WAS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT. >> Reporter: AND THEN SHE FINALLY IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS NIKITA'S GRANDMOTHER AND GAVE 91 00:11:33,426 --> 00:11:41,367 THE SCHOOL DIRECTOR A UKRAINIAN DOCUMENT AUTHORIZING HER TO TAKE NIKITA HOME. HE REFUSED. 92 00:11:41,434 --> 00:11:49,742 >> Translator: THE DIRECTOR SAID TO ME, HE'S MINE, I'M HIS GUARDIAN. AND I SAID, BUT I'M HIS 93 00:11:49,809 --> 00:11:54,246 GRANDMOTHER. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT BECAUSE HE HAS A BIOLOGICAL GRANDMOTHER WHO WILL TAKE HIM BACK. 94 00:11:54,313 --> 00:12:03,155 THIS IS MY CHILD. >> Reporter: LAST YEAR VLADIMIR PUTIN CHANGED THE LAW TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR SOME UKRAINIAN 95 00:12:03,222 --> 00:12:10,930 CHILDREN TO RECEIVE RUSSIAN CITIZENSHIP, ALLOWING THEM TO BE ADOPTED BY RUSSIAN FAMILIES. AND PUTIN'S TOP DEPUTY IN CHARGE 96 00:12:10,996 --> 00:12:20,840 OF CHILDREN'S RIGHTS, MARIA LVOVA-BELOVA, POSTED THESE VIDEOS OF WHAT SHE DESCRIBED AS UKRAINIAN ORPHANS WITH THEIR 97 00:12:20,906 --> 00:12:29,582 ADOPTIVE PARENTS. LVOVA-BELOVA HERSELF SAYS SHE ADOPTED A 15-YEAR-OLD UKRAINIAN BOY FROM THE OCCUPIED CITY OF 98 00:12:29,648 --> 00:12:35,855 MARIUPOL. POLINA SHOWED US THE DOCUMENTS THAT LED HER TO BELIEVE NIKITA WAS ALSO ABOUT TO BE ADOPTED. 99 00:12:35,921 --> 00:12:40,059 SO THIS IS THE UKRAINIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE. BORN IN UKRAINE. UKRAINIAN CHILD. 100 00:12:40,126 --> 00:12:49,602 AND THIS IS WHAT RUSSIA MADE AND THIS -- WHAT DOES THIS SAY? >> Translator: IT SAYS THAT HE'S A CITIZEN OF THE RUSSIAN 101 00:12:49,668 --> 00:12:53,172 FEDERATION. >> Reporter: IT'S ALMOST HARD FOR ME TO GET MY HEAD AROUND THIS. 102 00:12:53,239 --> 00:13:02,448 YOUR GRANDSON IS A UKRAINIAN CITIZEN, AND YOU'RE TELLING ME, YOU BELIEVE THE RUSSIANS WERE ON THE VERGE OF GIVING HIM TO A 103 00:13:02,515 --> 00:13:11,223 RUSSIAN FAMILY, OF ADOPTING HIM OUT TO ANOTHER FAMILY. >> Translator: YES, YES. >> Reporter: SHE SAYS THE SCHOOL 104 00:13:11,290 --> 00:13:15,694 CALLED HER UKRAINIAN DOCUMENTATION FAKE AND DEMANDED A DNA TEST. THEY KEPT POLINA WAITING FOR THE 105 00:13:15,761 --> 00:13:25,838 RESULTS. FOR 70 DAYS SHE REFUSED TO BACK DOWN. UNTIL FINALLY, POLINA WAS LED 106 00:13:25,905 --> 00:13:43,923 INTO A ROOM WHERE SHE HEARD THIS. >> BABUSHKA! >> Reporter: THERE TO PERSONALLY 107 00:13:43,989 --> 00:13:50,763 OVERSEE THE REUNION, MARIA LVOVA-BELOVA. RUSSIAN CAMERAS RECORDED AS THE ACCUSED WAR CRIMINAL HANDED 108 00:13:50,829 --> 00:14:01,607 NIKITA GIFTS. SHE ALSO MADE THEM AN OFFER. >> Translator: LVOVA-BELOVA SAID TO ME, WOULD YOU LIKE TO STAY 109 00:14:01,674 --> 00:14:07,580 WITH US IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION MAYBE? WE WILL GIVE YOU SOME MONEY. WE WILL GIVE YOU A CAR. 110 00:14:07,646 --> 00:14:12,351 >> Reporter: THEY TRIED TO GET YOU TO STAY WITH NIKITA? >>. >> Translator: YES, YES. 111 00:14:12,418 --> 00:14:21,193 I SAID I DON'T NEED ANYTHING. I HAVE EVERYTHING. >> Reporter: MARIA LVOVA-BELOVA INSISTS RUSSIA DOES NOT PUT 112 00:14:21,260 --> 00:14:27,433 UKRAINIAN CHILDREN UP FOR ADOPTION AND THAT IT MAKES EVERY EFFORT TO RETURN THEM. ON SOCIAL MEDIA SHE CALLED 113 00:14:27,499 --> 00:14:35,274 POLINA AND NIKITA'S REUNION A JOY AND WISHED THEM A, QUOTE, HAPPY LIFE. FINALLY REUNITED, POLINA AND 114 00:14:35,341 --> 00:14:46,085 NIKITA BEGAN THE LONG TRIP BACK TO SAFETY. DRIVING DAY AND NIGHT FOR A WEEK. 115 00:14:46,151 --> 00:14:51,624 WE WERE WITH THE SAVE UKRAINE TEAM WHEN THEY ARRIVED IN POLAND. THEY PLAN TO LIVE HERE UNTIL THE 116 00:14:51,690 --> 00:15:02,534 WAR IS OVER. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR GRANDMOTHER NOW? NIKITA TOLD ME HE WANTS TO PLAY 117 00:15:02,601 --> 00:15:11,043 TOYS WITH HER. AND WITH A SMILE, HE PROUDLY SAID, THIS IS MY MOTHER, MY GRANDMOTHER. 118 00:15:19,685 --> 00:15:27,126 >>> THE WILDFIRE IN AUGUST THAT RIPPED THROUGH THE HAWAIIAN TOWN OF LAHAINA WAS AMERICA'S DEADLIEST IN 100 YEARS. 119 00:15:27,192 --> 00:15:34,733 AT LEAST 99 PEOPLE WERE KILLED. YOU MAY RECALL THE PICTURES OF PEOPLE JUMPING INTO THE PACIFIC OCEAN TO ESCAPE AS THE FIRE 120 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:40,172 BURNED MOST OF THE HISTORIC TOWN IN A MATTER OF HOURS. BUT THERE'S AN UNTOLD STORY ABOUT A GROUP OF FIREFIGHTERS 121 00:15:40,239 --> 00:15:48,247 WHO WERE ALSO TRAPPED WHILE FIGHTING FAST-MOVING FLAMES. TONIGHT YOU WILL HEAR FROM THOSE MAUI COUNTY FIREFIGHTERS ABOUT 122 00:15:48,314 --> 00:15:53,819 TWO OF THE WORST HOURS OF THEIR LIVES. THEY TOOK A STAND TO SAVE THEIR HOMETOWN WITHOUT THE THING THEY 123 00:15:53,886 --> 00:16:03,662 DEPEND ON THE MOST -- WATER. THE MORNING BEGAN WITH BLUE SKIES AND WINDS GUSTING NEARLY 60 MILES AN HOUR. 124 00:16:03,729 --> 00:16:10,102 >> I WAS JUST WATCHING THE OCEAN AND WATCHING WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THE OCEAN AND JUST NEVER SEEING THAT BEFORE. 125 00:16:10,169 --> 00:16:14,273 >> Reporter: WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THE OCEAN? >> IT WAS JUST LIKE FROTH. IT WAS COMPLETELY WHITE. 126 00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:19,111 AND THERE WAS LIKE WHIRLWINDS THAT WAS -- SAT OUT THERE FOR OVER AN HOUR. >> Reporter: THAT HAD BEEN 127 00:16:19,178 --> 00:16:24,717 WHIPPED UP? >> YEAH, YEAH. THE WINDS WERE JUST NUTS. >> Reporter: FIREFIGHTER AINA 128 00:16:24,783 --> 00:16:33,726 KOHLER DRIVES ENGINE 3. SHE GREW UP IN LAHAINA, THE ONCE POSTCARD PERFECT TOWN OF 13,000 TUCKED BETWEEN THE WEST MAUI 129 00:16:33,792 --> 00:16:40,299 RANGE AND THE SPARKLING PACIFIC. IN HAWAIIAN, LAHAINA MEANS CRUEL SUN, BUT ON AUGUST 8th, IT WAS THE WIND. 130 00:16:40,366 --> 00:16:46,071 WHIPPED UP BY A HURRICANE 500 MILES OFFSHORE, THAT SHOWED NO MERCY MERCY. 131 00:16:46,138 --> 00:16:51,310 >> WE'RE USED TO WIND, BUT WE WEREN'T USED TO THAT KIND OF WIND. I LOOKED OUT MY WINDOW AND THERE 132 00:16:51,377 --> 00:16:57,149 WAS LIKE A GIANT KIDDY POOL, ONE OF THE BIGGER ONES, FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, LIKE 100 FEET UP. 133 00:16:57,216 --> 00:17:02,788 >> POWER LINE JUST WENT DOWN. >> Reporter: AT 6:30 THAT MORNING, A RESIDENT RECORDED THIS VIDEO AFTER A POWER LINE 134 00:17:02,855 --> 00:17:10,062 FELL AND IGNITED THE DRY GRASS THAT COVERS MUCH OF LAHAINA'S HILL SIDE. AT MOST, THERE ARE 17 135 00:17:10,129 --> 00:17:16,769 FIREFIGHTERS ON DUTY IN WEST MAUI. KOHLER'S CREW OF FOUR RELIEVED THE FIREFIGHTERS THAT FIRST 136 00:17:16,835 --> 00:17:22,174 RESPONDED. >> WE HAD CONTAINED IT, MEANING IT WASN'T GETTING ANY BIGGER. SO NOW WE WERE JUST PUTTING 137 00:17:22,241 --> 00:17:28,781 WATER ON ALL THE HOT SPOTS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS -- EVERYTHING WAS FULLY OUT, JUST DOUSING EVERYTHING IN WATER. 138 00:17:28,847 --> 00:17:32,551 >> Reporter: HOW LONG WERE YOU OUT THERE? >> WE WERE -- PROBABLY TILL LIKE 2:00. 139 00:17:32,618 --> 00:17:40,793 THEN WE WENT ON SOME CALLS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD RIGHT NEXT DOOR, DOWNED POLES THAT WERE LEANING ON HOUSES AND DOWNED 140 00:17:40,859 --> 00:17:46,131 LINES. >> Reporter: AROUND 3:00 AINA KOHLER'S CREW WAS CALLED BACK TO THE AREA OF THE MORNING 141 00:17:46,198 --> 00:17:52,337 BRUSHFIRE. THIS IS POLICE VIDEO. THE HILL SIDE WAS ON FIRE AGAIN. HOW FAST WAS THE FIRE MOVING AT 142 00:17:52,404 --> 00:17:56,909 THAT POINT? >> I COULDN'T TELL. I COULD TELL HOW FAST THE SMOKE WAS MOVING AND IT WASN'T EVEN 143 00:17:56,975 --> 00:18:02,047 GOING UP. IT WAS JUST GOING SIDEWAYS. >> THERE'S A BIG FLAME IN HERE. >> Reporter: THE CAUSE OF THE 144 00:18:02,114 --> 00:18:07,753 AFTERNOON FIRE IS STILL UNKNOWN, BUT MIKE WALKER HAD WARNED HAWAIIAN LAWMAKERS ABOUT THE CHANGE OF OVERGROWN GRASS HERE 145 00:18:07,820 --> 00:18:15,394 FOR FIVE YEARS. SO HOW MUCH OF THIS IS NATIVE TO HAWAII? >> NONE OF IT. 146 00:18:15,461 --> 00:18:21,900 >> Reporter: WALKER IS IN CHARGE OF FIRE PROTECTION FOR HAWAII'S DEPARTMENT OF LAND AND NATURAL RESOURCES. 147 00:18:21,967 --> 00:18:27,806 THE TYPE OF GRASS HE SHOWED US IS FROM AFRICA. IT WAS BROUGHT HERE A CENTURY AGO FOR CATTLE GRAZING BECAUSE 148 00:18:27,873 --> 00:18:35,314 IT GROWS FAST EVEN WITH LITTLE WATER. WHAT CAN YOU DO TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS ISN'T A TINDERBOX? 149 00:18:35,380 --> 00:18:43,922 >> WELL, A LOT OF THE LAND RIGHT NOW IS JUST UNMANAGED. IT'S EITHER FOLKS DON'T HAVE THE FINANCES OR IT'S NOT 150 00:18:43,989 --> 00:18:50,162 ECONOMICALLY WORTH IT TO WORK THE LAND, OR THEY'RE JUST BANKING THE LAND FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. 151 00:18:50,229 --> 00:18:57,936 I THINK YOU CAN SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DO NOTHING. >> Reporter: ON AUGUST 8th, A FEW MINUTES AFTER 3:00, WIND 152 00:18:58,003 --> 00:19:06,044 CARRIED BURNING GRASS TOWARD HOMES HALF A MILE AWAY. >> AND BY THE TIME I REPORTED THAT OVER THE RADIO, EVERY 153 00:19:06,111 --> 00:19:13,652 STRUCTURE I COULD SEE WAS ON FIRE. >> Reporter: 6'4" KEAHI HO IS BASED IN LAHAINA ON LADDER 3. 154 00:19:13,719 --> 00:19:22,060 HE MAN'S ITS BIGGEST WEAPON -- A CANNON THAT SHOOTS 2,000 GALLONS OF WATER A MINUTE. >> IT WAS JUST BLOW AWAY, YOU 155 00:19:22,127 --> 00:19:27,900 KNOW. I COULD STICK IT RIGHT IN A WINDOW AND PUT OUT THAT ROOM, BUT THE WHOLE REST OF THE HOUSE 156 00:19:27,966 --> 00:19:32,571 IS ON FIRE. AND THEN EVERY OTHER HOUSE IS ON FIRE. >> Reporter: THEN SOMETHING HE'D 157 00:19:32,638 --> 00:19:42,948 NEVER EXPERIENCED LEFT HIM STUNNED. THE HYDRANTS STARTED TO RUN DRY. >> IT WAS A REAL LOW POINT FOR 158 00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:53,559 ME BECAUSE -- WE JUST -- I KNEW THAT WE HAD LOST, YOU KNOW. WE WERE GOING TO REALLY -- THIS WAS GOING TO BE WORSE THAN WE 159 00:19:53,625 --> 00:19:58,330 COULD IMAGINE. >> Reporter: THE COUNTY'S DEPARTMENT OF WATER SUPPLY TOLD US THE FIRE CAUSED MORE THAN 160 00:19:58,397 --> 00:20:06,138 2,000 PIPE BREAKS, BLEEDING WATER OUT OF THE SYSTEM. >> IT WAS JUST SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE THAT I HEARD THAT THE -- 161 00:20:06,204 --> 00:20:14,179 WHERE MY MOM'S OFFICE IS, WHICH IS A LONG WAYS AWAY FROM WHERE I WAS, WAS ON FIRE. AND THEN TO KNOW THAT IT WAS 162 00:20:14,246 --> 00:20:20,419 THERE AND TO KNOW THAT I WAS RUNNING OUT OF WATER, I WAS LIKE, MAN, IT'S OVER. LIKE, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP 163 00:20:20,485 --> 00:20:28,627 TRYING, BUT THERE'S -- IT'S OVER. >> Reporter: THIS WAS THE VIEW FROM INSIDE A FIRE TRUCK. 164 00:20:28,694 --> 00:20:37,836 BLACK SKIES LIT BY AN INFERNO THAT STRETCHED FOR BLOCKS. FIREFIGHTERS DIDN'T HAVE THE WATER OR THE CREWS TO STOP IT. 165 00:20:37,903 --> 00:20:44,710 >> COME IN, COME IN. >> Reporter: RESIDENTS SAY THEY NEVER RECEIVED AN EVACUATION ORDER, SO BY 4:00 P.M., POLICE 166 00:20:44,776 --> 00:20:50,048 WERE RACING AROUND TOWN TO GET PEOPLE OUT. >> LET'S GO! HURRY UP! 167 00:20:50,115 --> 00:21:02,894 [ BLEEP ] HURRY UP! >> Reporter: AT THE SAME TIME, REINFORCEMENTS STARTED TO ARRIVE FROM OTHER FIRE STATIONS ACROSS 168 00:21:02,961 --> 00:21:10,736 MAUI, INCLUDING 26-YEAR-OLD TANNER MOSHER. HE WAS WITH ENGINE 6. >> ONCE YOU GOT INTO THE SMOKE, 169 00:21:10,802 --> 00:21:16,174 IT WAS LIKE FIVE FEET OF VISIBILITY, MAYBE TEN IF YOU'RE LUCKY. >> IT'S LIKE A BLOWTORCH BEING 170 00:21:16,241 --> 00:21:22,848 BLOWN AT YOU. THE HEAT WAS SO INTENSE. >> Reporter: CAPTAIN JAY FUJITA HAS BEEN A FIREFIGHTER ALMOST AS 171 00:21:22,914 --> 00:21:29,588 LONG AS TANNER MOSHER HAS BEEN ALIVE. HE COMMANDED ENGINE 1 TO TAKE A SPOT NEXT TO MOSHER'S CREW. 172 00:21:29,655 --> 00:21:35,327 AT 4:30, STREETS WERE CLOGGED WITH THE CARS OF RESIDENTS AND TOURISTS. THIS WAS A 911 OPERATOR. 173 00:21:35,394 --> 00:21:43,769 >> YOU GUYS NEED TO LEAVE. IF YOU CAN'T, IF YOU CAN'T DRIVE AWAY, GET OUT OF THE CAR AND RUN. 174 00:21:43,835 --> 00:21:50,909 >> Reporter: THE ABANDONED CARS AND A WEB OF DOWNED POWER LINES TRAPPED THE EIGHT FIREFIGHTERS AND THEIR TWO ENGINES. 175 00:21:50,976 --> 00:21:59,051 >> ONCE WE DETERMINED WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ESCAPE THE -- THE STREET THAT WE WERE ON, WE PULLED A LINE TO KIND OF 176 00:21:59,117 --> 00:22:04,723 PROTECT OURSELVES FROM THE FIRE. >> Reporter: JUST TO KEEP THE FIRE AWAY FROM YOU? >> YEAH. 177 00:22:04,790 --> 00:22:08,827 BUT THE HOSE BURNT. >> Reporter: SO YOU DON'T HAVE A HOSE. >> YEP. 178 00:22:08,894 --> 00:22:12,964 >> Reporter: AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT? >> YEP. OUR ONLY COURSE OF ACTION WAS TO 179 00:22:13,031 --> 00:22:16,535 SHELTER IN PLACE. >> Reporter: INSIDE THE ENGINES THEY RELIED ON AIR TANKS TO BREATHE. 180 00:22:16,601 --> 00:22:25,610 >> WE WERE JUST CONSERVING OUR AIR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND JUST SITTING IN OUR SEATS. WE WERE JUST FIXATING ON MAKING 181 00:22:25,677 --> 00:22:30,048 IT OUT, LASTING. >> Reporter: SO AT THAT POINT IT'S SURVIVING. >> IT'S SURVIVING FOR SURE. 182 00:22:30,115 --> 00:22:38,056 I MEAN, WE COULD SEE METAL MELTING IN FRONT OF OUR EYES. >> I HAD TEXTED MY WIFE. I TOLD HER I LOVE HER AND TO 183 00:22:38,123 --> 00:22:45,297 PASS THE MESSAGE ONTO THE REST OF MY FAMILY, THAT I LOVE THEM. THAT WE'RE STUCK AND WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE IT OUT. 184 00:22:45,363 --> 00:22:50,535 BUT IT WAS TOO HOT IN THE TRUCK, SO MY PHONE WASN'T WORKING. SO THE MESSAGE DIDN'T GO THROUGH. 185 00:22:50,602 --> 00:23:00,112 >> I JUST REMEMBR BEING LIKE, I CAN'T GIVE UP YET. LIKE, I GOT TO DO SOMETHING. AND SO I REMEMBER LOOKING OUT 186 00:23:00,178 --> 00:23:07,719 THE WINDOW, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I COULD SEE ENGINE 1 SKEETER, MINI ONE. >> Reporter: THE SKEETER IS A 187 00:23:07,786 --> 00:23:14,259 SMALL FIRE TRUCK, LIKE THIS ONE. MOSHER JUMPED INTO IT ALONE TO SEE IF HE COULD CLEAR A PATH FOR THE ENGINES TO GET OUT. 188 00:23:14,326 --> 00:23:20,499 MOSHER SAYS WHEN HE REALIZED THE SKEETER COULDN'T DRIVE THROUGH THE BARRICADE OF CARS, HE MADE THE SNAP DECISION TO DRIVE OVER 189 00:23:20,565 --> 00:23:27,606 THEM TO FIND HELP. >> AND SO I JUST REMEMBER PUTTING IT IN FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE AND I LAUNCHED THE BARRICADE. 190 00:23:27,672 --> 00:23:34,146 I KIND OF PLANED FOR A SECOND. AND I WAS LIKE, OH, OKAY, I MATE IT OVER. AT THE END OF THE LOT WAS A ROCK 191 00:23:34,212 --> 00:23:38,450 WALL. SO, I LAUNCHED OVER THE ROCK WALL AND DEFINITELY CAUGHT SOME POWER LINES. 192 00:23:38,517 --> 00:23:43,622 SO, I WOULD JUST BE DRIVING THROUGH THE SMOKE, NOT SEEING ANYTHING. SO I'M JUST LIKE DRIVING 193 00:23:43,688 --> 00:23:50,128 THROUGH, DODGING STUFF. >> Reporter: HIS TRUCK WAS DAMAGED, BUT DOWN THE ROAD HE SAW THE LIGHTS OF A POLICE CAR. 194 00:23:50,195 --> 00:23:54,866 >> I JUST REMEMBER LEAVING MOST OF MY STUFF IN THAT TRUCK, GETTING OUT, RUNNING TO THE COP AND JUST TELLING HIM LIKE, HEY, 195 00:23:54,933 --> 00:23:59,971 I GOT GUYS IN THERE. THEY NEED HELP. THEY'RE DYING. AND SO HE SAID, HEY, YOU CAN 196 00:24:00,038 --> 00:24:07,112 TAKE MY SQUAD VEHICLE. JUST COME BACK. SO, I HOPPED IN THERE AND JUST STARTED DRIVING BACK INTO THE 197 00:24:07,179 --> 00:24:14,920 SMOKE WHERE I KNEW I CAME FROM, OR REMEMBERED COMING FROM. >> Reporter: AS MOSHER MADE HIS WAY BACK, CAPTAIN FUJITA 198 00:24:14,986 --> 00:24:21,860 REALIZED THE FIRE TRUCK WAS NO LONGER OFFERING PROTECTION. >> I NOTICED OUR WINDSHIELD FAILING. 199 00:24:21,927 --> 00:24:24,930 IT STARTED TO FAIL. >> Reporter: YOUR WINDSHIELD FAILING? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? 200 00:24:24,996 --> 00:24:34,372 >> SO, THE WINDSHIELD IS MADE UP OF TWO PANES OF GLASS WITH A FILM IN THE MIDDLE. AND THAT FILM WAS, YOU KNOW, 201 00:24:34,439 --> 00:24:38,276 DELAMINATING AND BUBBLING IN THE WINDSHIELD. >> Reporter: SO IT'S MELTING AROUND YOU? 202 00:24:38,343 --> 00:24:44,216 >> YEAH. SO, WE GOT OUT OF THE TRUCK AND WE ALL SHELTERED BEHIND THE ENGINE. 203 00:24:44,282 --> 00:24:50,388 AND WE HEARD LIKE A CHIRPING OF A SIREN. BUT BECAUSE OF THE SMOKE, WE DIDN'T -- WE COULDN'T SEE WHERE 204 00:24:50,455 --> 00:24:55,460 IT WAS COMING FROM. BUT FINALLY WE SEEN A POLICE SUV SHOW UP. >> Reporter: IT WAS TANNER 205 00:24:55,527 --> 00:25:02,601 MOSHER. SEVEN FIREFIGHTERS IN GEAR CRAMMED INSIDE THE SUV MOSHER WAS DRIVING, INCLUDING HIS 206 00:25:02,667 --> 00:25:09,841 CAPTAIN, MIKE MULLALLEY, WHO WAS UNCONSCIOUS FROM SMOKE INHALATION. HE'S ON THE FAR LEFT IN THIS 207 00:25:09,908 --> 00:25:15,247 PICTURE TAKEN BEFORE THE FIRE. >> HE WAS IN THE CAR, THE SUV WITH THE DOOR OPEN AND HIS BOOTS WERE HANGING BUT THEY WEREN'T 208 00:25:15,313 --> 00:25:20,185 TOUCHING THE GROUND. >> Reporter: SO THEY'RE JUST HOLDING ONTO CAPTAIN? >> YEAH. 209 00:25:20,252 --> 00:25:29,427 ALL THE GUYS THAT WERE ABLE TO REACH HIM WERE LOCKED ON. >> Reporter: WITH HIS CAPTAIN'S LEGS DANGLING OUT, HE JUMPED THE 210 00:25:29,494 --> 00:25:33,899 SUV TO SAFETY. DID TANNER MOSHER SAVE YOUR LIFE THAT DAY? >> YES, HE SAVED ALL OF OUR 211 00:25:33,965 --> 00:25:40,472 LIVES. >> Reporter: HE'S A YOUNG GUY. >> YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT KIND OF HEROISM. 212 00:25:40,538 --> 00:25:48,546 HE JUST HAD IT IN HIM. >> Reporter: ONCE CLEAR, THE FIREFIGHTERS PERFORMED CPR AND STABILIZED CAPTAIN MULALLEY. 213 00:25:48,613 --> 00:25:52,550 >> AND THEN ALL SEVEN OF US WENT BACK TO WORK. >> Reporter: YOU KEPT FIGHTING FIRES? 214 00:25:52,617 --> 00:25:57,789 >> YEP. ALL THE WAY TILL THE NEXT MORNING. >> Reporter: WITH LITTLE WATER, 215 00:25:57,856 --> 00:26:04,429 THERE WAS LITTLE THEY COULD DO TO SAVE HOMES. SO AS THE SUN SET, THE FIREFIGHTERS' MISSION SHIFTED TO 216 00:26:04,496 --> 00:26:11,136 SAVING ANYONE THEY COULD, ANY WAY THEY COULD. AINA KOHLER DITCHED HER FIRE ENGINE AND USED A PICKUP TO 217 00:26:11,202 --> 00:26:16,541 SNAKE THROUGH THE BURNING DEBRIS DOWNTOWN. A LOCAL, SHE KNEW EVERY WAY IN AND OUT. 218 00:26:16,608 --> 00:26:21,813 >> THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE IN THEIR CARS, STUCK DOWN THERE, NOT KNOWING WHICH WAY TO GET OUT. 219 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:28,286 AND SO I WOULD JUMP IN THEIR CAR AND I WOULD DRIVE THEIR CAR OUT FOR THEM. >> Reporter: SO, EVERYBODY'S 220 00:26:28,353 --> 00:26:32,324 TRYING TO GET OUT AND YOU'RE GOING IN? >> YEAH. >> Reporter: A MOTHER OF TWO 221 00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:37,228 SAID HER FAMILY WAS ABLE TO ESCAPE, BUT LIKE 16 OTHER FIREFIGHTERS IN LAHAINA, █SHE LOST HER HOME. 222 00:26:37,295 --> 00:26:43,969 DID YOU EVER THINK, LIKE, WHY ME? >> NO. I WAS LIKE, EVERY -- EVERYTHING 223 00:26:44,035 --> 00:26:50,408 ELSE IS BURNED DOWN, WHY NOT MY HOUSE? YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T WANT TO BE FEELING LIKE I COULDN'T DEFEND, 224 00:26:50,475 --> 00:26:58,850 YOU KNOW, THE ENTIRE TOWN, AND IF MY HOUSE WAS STILL STANDING, I'D PROBABLY HAVE EVEN MORE GUILT. 225 00:26:58,917 --> 00:27:06,091 >> Reporter: ONCE THE SPARKLING JEWEL OF MAUI, THIS IS LAHAINA TODAY. ITS TREASURES NOW A SEA OF ASH 226 00:27:06,157 --> 00:27:12,063 AND CHARRED METAL. MORE THAN 2,000 HOMES AND BUSINESSES WERE DESTROYED. HAWAII'S ATTORNEY GENERAL IS 227 00:27:12,130 --> 00:27:19,371 INVESTIGATING THE CAUSE OF THE AFTERNOON FIRE AND HOW THE WATER SYSTEM FAILED. ALREADY, IN THE HILLS ABOVE 228 00:27:19,437 --> 00:27:26,778 LAHAINA, THE FLAMMABLE GRASS THAT SET THE STAGE FOR THIS DISASTER IS GROWING BACK. CAPTAIN JAY FUJITA TOOK US TO 229 00:27:26,845 --> 00:27:32,150 THE STREET WHERE HIS CREW MADE ITS STAND. YOUR ENGINE WAS RIGHT THERE? >> YEP, RIGHT THERE. 230 00:27:32,217 --> 00:27:38,056 >> Reporter: THOSE ASHES IN FRONT OF US ARE THE OUTLINE OF WHERE FIRE CONSUMED WHAT WAS ONCE ENGINE 1. 231 00:27:38,123 --> 00:27:46,297 >> IT'S KIND OF LIKE A GRAVE, YOU KNOW, COMING BACK TO SEE THIS. AFTER WE LEFT IT WAS STILL HOT 232 00:27:46,364 --> 00:27:51,236 ENOUGH AND BAD ENOUGH TO BURN THE ENGINE. >> Reporter: TO NOTHING. >> YEAH. 233 00:27:51,302 --> 00:27:57,909 >> Reorter: AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE FIGHT NOW WHEN YOU LOOK BACK ON IT? >> I THINK WE ALL FEEL -- WISH 234 00:27:57,976 --> 00:28:03,748 WE COULD HAVE DONE MORE. WE MADE IT OUT AND WE'RE GRATEFUL, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE'S STILL PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T 235 00:28:03,815 --> 00:28:10,455 MAKE IT OUT. >> Reporter: NOT FAR FROM WHERE THE LAHAINA FIRE BEGAN IS A LINE OF CROSSES. 236 00:28:10,522 --> 00:28:19,697 ONE FOR EACH PERSON WHO DIED. THE 100th VICTIM WAS IDENTIFIED LAST WEEK, BUT BY OUR COUNT, MAUI FIREFIGHTERS RESCUED AT 237 00:28:19,764 --> 00:28:22,567 LEAST 200 PEOPLE FROM THE FLAMES. 238 00:28:36,014 --> 00:28:42,187 >>> STEVEN VAN ZANDT EMBODIED BOTH THE FRUSTRATION AND A BEAUTY OF THE ARTS. THERE ARE NO ORG CHARTS, NO 239 00:28:42,253 --> 00:28:48,426 OFFICIAL TITLES, NO ONE WAY TO DO THE JOB. HE HAS DISCOVERED THAT IT'S EASIER TO BE THIS CREATIVE 240 00:28:48,493 --> 00:28:55,100 FURNACE, THIS VOLCANO OF ARTISTIC OUTPUT WHEN YOU ARE NOT THE FOCUS. THE LONG-TIME GUITARIST AND 241 00:28:55,166 --> 00:29:03,108 MUSICAL DIRECTOR FOR BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN AND THE E STREET BAND WAS ALSO UNDERBOSS OF A DIFFERENT KIND, ACTING IN ONE OF 242 00:29:03,174 --> 00:29:11,516 HISTORY'S MOST INFLUENTIAL TELEVISION SHOWS, "THE SOPRANOS," ALL WHILE TRYING TO PRESERVE ROCK 'N' ROLL. 243 00:29:11,583 --> 00:29:18,456 THE HIGHWAY MAY BE JAMMED WITH BROKEN HEROES YET LITTLE STEVEN REFUSES TO PICK A LANE. >> Reporter: LATE ON A SUNDAY 244 00:29:18,523 --> 00:29:25,597 AFTERNOON IN MAY, STEVEN VAN ZANDT WAS MIDWAY THROUGH A BURST OF FURIOUS CREATIVITY. TENDING TO HIS LATEST SCREEN 245 00:29:25,663 --> 00:29:32,504 PLAY. HE HAD AN IDEA HE HAD TO COMMIT TO THE PAGE. >> A COUPLE SINGERS WHO, YOU 246 00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:39,611 KNOW -- MY DAY JOB IS LEG BREAKERS. >> Reporter: WHERE WAS THIS QUAINT WRITERS' RETREAT? 247 00:29:39,677 --> 00:29:49,487 IN HIS BACKSTAGE DRESSING ROOM AT A CONCERT IN ROME. MINUTES BEFORE VAN ZANDT PUT HIS PEN AND PAD AWAY AND WENT ON 248 00:29:49,554 --> 00:29:58,363 STAGE AS A CRITICAL MEMBER OF ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL ROCK 'N' ROLL ACTS OF ALL TIME. >> COME ON, STEVE! 249 00:29:58,429 --> 00:30:06,638 ♪ ♪ WE SAID WE HAD TO COME SEE YOU GUYS PERFORM IN ROME. 250 00:30:06,704 --> 00:30:11,976 OF ALL THE CITIES, ALL THE GIN JOINTS, WHY ROME? >> THE FANS HERE ARE JUST SO MUCH FUN. 251 00:30:12,043 --> 00:30:18,750 YOU SEE EVERYBODY SINGING EVERY SINGLE WORD HAVE EVERY SINGLE SONG, WHEN THEY DON'T PARTICULARLY SPEAK ENGLISH, 252 00:30:18,816 --> 00:30:22,987 RIGHT, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS -- >> Reporter: THAT'S VALIDATION. >> WELL, IT'S A VALIDATION. IT'S A SHOW OF THE POWER OF WHAT 253 00:30:23,054 --> 00:30:34,132 WE DO. >> Reporter: SWADDLED IN HIS TRADEMARK BANDANA AND WRAPPED IN COMPLEXITY, LITTLE STEVEN, NOW 254 00:30:34,199 --> 00:30:40,038 72, REMAINS A TRUE AMERICAN ORIGINAL, THE ULTIMATE WINGMAN. >> I'M NOT CRAZY ABOUT THE SPOTLIGHT. 255 00:30:40,104 --> 00:30:48,012 I COULD HAVE BEEN AND MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN, OKAY? BECAUSE, AGAIN, YOU REALIZE THAT HAS BIG ADVANTAGES. 256 00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:53,651 BUT NATURALLY I JUST WASN'T INTO IT. I'D RATHER BE STANDING NEXT TO THE GUY, LET HIM BE IN THE 257 00:30:53,718 --> 00:30:59,190 SPOTLIGHT, LET HIM TAKE THE HEAT, BECAUSE I LIKE TO BLEND IN, ACTUALLY. >> Reporter: YEAH, I CAN TELL BY 258 00:30:59,257 --> 00:31:07,498 THE MODEST MEASURED OUTFIT. >> I GAVE UP TRYING TO ANALYZE IT YEARS AGO, BUT I PREFER TO BE AN OBSERVER RATHER THAN THE 259 00:31:07,565 --> 00:31:14,072 OBSERVED. >> Reporter: CAN I BREAK IT TO YOU? >> DO I NEED TO LIE DOWN ON THE 260 00:31:14,138 --> 00:31:19,777 COUCH FOR THIS? >> Reporter: ONE THING HE'S NOT QUESTIONING, HIS PLACE IN THE BAND. 261 00:31:19,844 --> 00:31:26,117 >> PEOPLE ALWAYS SAY, AREN'T YOU WORRIED ABOUT BEING REPLACED? I'M LIKE, NO, I CAN'T BE REPLACED. 262 00:31:26,184 --> 00:31:30,455 HOW MANY BEST FRIENDS DO YOU HAVE FOR 50 YEARS, YOU KNOW. >> Reporter: THE BEST FRIEND HE REFERENCES, OF COURSE, IS 263 00:31:30,521 --> 00:31:37,061 SPRINGSTEEN. THEY MET AS TEENAGERS IN 1960s JERSEY, MISFITS SEDUCED BY ROCK 'N' ROLL. 264 00:31:37,128 --> 00:31:43,334 TO QUOTE LITTLE STEVEN, THE BEATLES REVEALED THIS NEW WORLD TO US, THE ROLLING STONES INVITED US IN. 265 00:31:43,401 --> 00:31:50,008 THEY FORMED A BAND, ANCHORED IN THE BOARDWALK TOWN OF ASBURY PARK. GIVEN THAT VAN ZANDT HAD A 266 00:31:50,074 --> 00:31:57,081 MONTHLY OVERHEAD OF $150 IN RENT, THE GOING WAS GOOD. MORE IMPORTANT, THE BAND LEARNED HOW TO PLAY LIVE, HOW TO MARRY 267 00:31:57,148 --> 00:32:04,922 MUSICIANSHIP WITH SHOW MANSHIP. >> THE FACT THAT WE WERE IN BARS, YOU KNOW, MAKING OUR BONES, YOU KNOW, WHAT, SEVEN 268 00:32:04,989 --> 00:32:09,627 YEARS BEFORE WE GOT INTO THE MUSIC BUSINESS, RIGHT? >> Reporter: YOU GET INTO THIS GAME BECAUSE IT JUST -- THIS 269 00:32:09,694 --> 00:32:14,832 SPEAKS TO YOU. WHAT'S IT BROUGHT YOU THAT YOU DIDN'T EXPECT? >> OTHER THAN EVERYTHING? 270 00:32:14,899 --> 00:32:24,509 YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, IT WAS JUST EVERYTHING. IT SAVED MY LIFE. I MEAN, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY PATH 271 00:32:24,575 --> 00:32:33,251 FORWARD. AND SO IT BRINGS YOU ACCEPTANCE. YOU'RE PART OF SOMETHING. AND, MAN, IT JUST CAME ALONG 272 00:32:33,318 --> 00:32:37,188 RIGHT AT THE RIGHT TIME. YOU'RE MAKING A LIVING PLAYING ROCK 'N' ROLL, MAN. THAT WAS THE MIRACLE. 273 00:32:37,255 --> 00:32:47,665 ♪ >> Reporter: VAN ZANDT, WHO DOESN'T READ OR WRITE MUSIC, BROUGHT HIS GUITAR CHOPS AND HIS 274 00:32:47,732 --> 00:32:57,875 MUSICAL EAR. ♪ >> Reporter: ARRANGING THE ICONIC HORNS ON TENTH AVENUE 275 00:32:57,942 --> 00:33:08,853 FREEZE-OUT AND POLISHING SPRINGSTEEN'S GUITAR LICK ON "BORN TO RUN." ♪ 276 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,458 >> Reporter: HOW MUCH CREDIT DO YOU TAKE? HOW MUCH CREDIT SHOULD YOU TAKE FOR THE SUCCESS OF THIS BAND? 277 00:33:13,524 --> 00:33:20,398 >> I UNDERSTOOD CERTAIN THINGS EARLIER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE. IF YOU LISTEN TO "DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN" AND LISTEN TO 278 00:33:20,465 --> 00:33:27,271 "RIVER," THE DIFFERENCE IS ME, YOU KNOW. I'M NOT -- I'M NEVER -- I'M NOT EVER GOING TO TAKE MORE CREDIT 279 00:33:27,338 --> 00:33:32,877 THAN THE REST OF THIS BAND, SO I JUST WAS KIND OF HELPING SHAPE THINGS AND TRYING TO REALIZE BRUCE'S VISION. 280 00:33:32,944 --> 00:33:39,250 IT'S HIS VISION. I TRY TO MAKE BAD THINGS GOOD, GOOD THINGS GREAT, AND GREAT THINGS BETTER, YOU KNOW. 281 00:33:39,317 --> 00:33:48,393 >> Reporter: YET AFTER AN ARGUMENT OVER CREATIVE INPUT, VAN ZANDT LEFT THE BAND IN 1984 AND WAS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT ON 282 00:33:48,459 --> 00:33:56,834 TOUR FOR SPRINGSTEEN'S MOST COMMERCIALLY SUCCESSFUL ALBUM. HE HAD MARRIED ACTRESS MAUREEN SANTORO AND STARTED WRITING 283 00:33:56,901 --> 00:34:04,976 SONGS FOR HIS OWN BAND, LITTLE STEVEN AND THE DISCIPLES OF SOUL. AND HE TURNED HIS ATTENTION TO 284 00:34:05,042 --> 00:34:11,416 POLITICAL ACTIVISM. MOST NOTABLY TO APARTHEID IN SOUTH AFRICA. >> 26 MILLION BLACK PEOPLE COULD 285 00:34:11,482 --> 00:34:17,655 NOT VOTE. THEY COULD NOT EVEN HAVE, YOU KNOW, A CUP OF TEA WITH A WHITE PERSON WITHOUT PERMISSION. 286 00:34:17,722 --> 00:34:23,661 IT'S TERRIBLE. >> Reporter: IN 1985 VAN ZANDT WROTE AND CO-PRODUCED THE PROTEST SONG "SUN CITY." 287 00:34:23,728 --> 00:34:35,440 ♪ >> Reporter: WHICH CAST THE RESORT TOWN THREE HOURS OUTSIDE OF JOHANNESBURG AS A SYMBOL OF 288 00:34:35,506 --> 00:34:42,647 THE MORAL FAILURE OF APARTHEID. VAN ZANDT DIDN'T JUST GET COLLEAGUES TO SING ON AN ALBUM, HE GOT THEM TO COMMIT TO A SUN 289 00:34:42,713 --> 00:34:46,984 CITY BOYCOTT. YOU SAW THROUGH THAT? >> YEAH. SO WE USED THAT AS AN EXAMPLE 290 00:34:47,051 --> 00:34:56,427 AND WE EXPOSED THAT WHOLE FRAUDULENT SCHEME. >> Reporter: AIN'T GOING TO PLAY SUN CITY. 291 00:34:56,494 --> 00:35:04,936 >> YEAH. >> Reporter: IN THE LATE '90s, HE AND SPRINGSTEEN RECONCILED. AND WHEN THE BOSS ASKED HIM 292 00:35:05,002 --> 00:35:10,575 BUDDY TO REJOIN THE E STREET BAND, WELL, THIS GUN WAS FOR HIRE. BUT THERE WAS A HITCH. 293 00:35:10,641 --> 00:35:16,280 VAN ZANDT HAD ALREADY COMMITTED TO A NEW TV SHOW ON HBO. >> I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING TO GAIN. 294 00:35:16,347 --> 00:35:22,820 >> Reporter: THE CREATOR DAVID CHASE HAD SEEN VAN ZANDT AT THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME AND MADE HIM AN OFFER HE COULDN'T 295 00:35:22,887 --> 00:35:27,825 REFUSE. >> HE CALLS AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO BE IN MY NEW TV SHOW? 296 00:35:27,892 --> 00:35:33,164 I SAID, WOW, THAT'S REALLY NICE, DAVID. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. BUT, NO, NOT REALLY, YOU KNOW. 297 00:35:33,231 --> 00:35:39,837 HE SAID, WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO? I'M LIKE, I'M NOT AN ACTOR. ISN'T THAT A PROBLEM? >> Reporter: VAN ZANDT SAYS 298 00:35:39,904 --> 00:35:47,778 CHASE WANTED HIM TO PLAY THE LEAD. >> HE GOES TO HBO, HBO SAYS, ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? 299 00:35:47,845 --> 00:35:59,056 >> Reporter: NICE GUITAR PLAYING AND ALL. >> YEAH, ARE YOU NUTS? >> Reporter: "THE SOPRANOS" 300 00:35:59,123 --> 00:36:10,501 WOULD ELEVATE TV. WHILE THE LEAD WOULD GO TO JAMES GANDOLFINI, VAN ZANDT WOULD SCENE-STEAL AS SILVIO DANTE, 301 00:36:10,568 --> 00:36:17,441 MANAGER OF THE BADA BINGE CLUB. >> I KNEW IF I COULD CREATE THE GUY FROM OUTSIDE, I COULD SEE HIM IN THE MIRROR. 302 00:36:17,508 --> 00:36:26,751 I FELT I COULD BE HIM. AND I WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A MOB AFICIONADO. >> Reporter: THE GUY WHO PLAYED 303 00:36:26,817 --> 00:36:34,425 TONY SOPRANO'S RIGHT HAND MAN? HE HAD MORE THAN A PASSING FAMILIARITY WITH THE PART. I DON'T WANT TO LIKEN BRUCE 304 00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:41,599 SPRINGSTEEN TO A MOB BOSS, BUT -- BUT YOU HAD THAT EXPERIENCE. >> I KNOW THOSE DYNAMICS, OKAY? 305 00:36:41,666 --> 00:36:45,836 I KNOW BEING THE ONLY GUY WHO'S NOT AFRAID TO TELL THE BOSS THE TRUTH. THAT'S THE JOB. 306 00:36:45,903 --> 00:36:51,242 THAT'S THE GIG. IF YOU'RE THE GUY'S BEST FRIEND OR THE UNDERBOSS, SOMEBODY HAS TO BE THE ONE TO OCCASIONALLY 307 00:36:51,309 --> 00:36:59,283 BRING BAD NEWS. >> Reporter: WHAT WAS AN ADJUSTMENT, THE PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVENESS OF THE 308 00:36:59,350 --> 00:37:04,355 ACTING STAGE. >> BECAUSE NOW WHO'S GOT MORE LINES, WHO'S IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA AT THE RIGHT TIME. 309 00:37:04,422 --> 00:37:09,293 I'M SENSING ALL THIS KIND OF WEIRD, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT WEIRD -- I'M NOT USED -- >> Reporter: THIS TENSION. 310 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:16,033 >> YEAH. AND I DECIDED THEN, I'M GOING TO TURN THIS SHOW INTO A ROCK 'N' ROLL BAND, YOU KNOW. 311 00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:23,207 BEFORE I'M DONE, OKAY. THIS SHOW IS GOING TO BE A BAND. IT'S ONE FOR ALL, YOU KNOW, ALL FOR ONE, RIGHT? 312 00:37:23,274 --> 00:37:33,651 >> Reporter: WHO'S THIS GUY? AN ORIGINAL SOPRANO'S POSTER IS ONE OF THE COUNTLESS RELICS ADORNING HIS APARTMENT IN 313 00:37:33,718 --> 00:37:40,391 GREENWICH VILLAGE. WHEN THE JOURNEY ENDED AFTER EIGHT YEARS, VAN ZANDT BEING VAN ZANDT, EMBARKED ON A NEW 314 00:37:40,458 --> 00:37:50,668 PROJECT. HE STARTED HIS MEMOIR AND HE CO-WROTE AND STARTED IN "LILLEHAMMER" A SHOW IN NORWAY 315 00:37:50,735 --> 00:37:56,007 IN THE FIRST IN A SERIES IN A STREAMING SERVICE CALLED NETFLIX. >> WHERE ARE YOU GOING? 316 00:37:56,073 --> 00:38:05,449 >> Reporter: WAIT, THERE'S MORE. CONCERNED ABOUT THE DECLINE IN ROCK ALBUM SALES, HE LAUNCHED A WEEKLY RADIO PROGRAM, LITTLE 317 00:38:05,516 --> 00:38:15,693 STEVEN'S UNDERGROUND GARAGE. YOU WOULDN'T MIND IF YOU GUYS WERE SUPPLANTED A LITTLE BIT BY A NEW WAVE OF E STREET BANDS? 318 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:22,867 >> I WOULD LOVE THAT. >> Reporter: HE ALSO SOMEHOW FOUND THE BAND WIDTH TO LAUNCH TEACHROCK, A FREE K THROUGH 12 319 00:38:22,933 --> 00:38:28,606 CURRICULUM THAT USES ROCK 'N' ROLL TO SNEAK IN TEACHING ALL THE OTHER STUFF. >> WE SAY, WHAT ARE YOU 320 00:38:28,673 --> 00:38:32,910 LISTENING TO? I'M LISTENING TO BEYONCE. WELL, YOU KNOW WHERE BEYONCE COMES FROM? 321 00:38:32,977 --> 00:38:37,882 SHE COMES FROM A WOMAN NAMED ARETHA FRANKLIN. SHE COMES FROM A PLACE CALLED DETROIT, YOU KNOW. 322 00:38:37,948 --> 00:38:42,920 WE TALK ABOUT DETROIT. WE TALK ABOUT SHE COMES FROM THE GOSPEL CHURCH. WE TALK ABOUT THAT. 323 00:38:42,987 --> 00:38:47,858 SHE WAS INVOLVED IN CIVIL RIGHTS. WE TALK ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW. AND THEY'RE LISTENING. 324 00:38:47,925 --> 00:38:52,830 AND THEY'RE PAYING ATTENTION. WHY? BECAUSE WE'RE ON THEIR TURF. >> Reporter: AND YET WE ALWAYS 325 00:38:52,897 --> 00:38:56,967 HEAR ABOUT HOW ART AND MUSIC PROGRAMS ARE GETTING CUT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS. >> YES. 326 00:38:57,034 --> 00:39:01,372 >> Reporter: WHY'S THAT? >> BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND, WE'RE THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT THINKS 327 00:39:01,439 --> 00:39:08,145 ART IS A LUXURY. EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD UNDERSTANDS THAT ART IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE QUALITY OF 328 00:39:08,212 --> 00:39:12,516 LIFE. >> Reporter: THE CURRENT CULTURE OF THE ARTS, THE SHIFTING STATE OF PLAY IN MUSIC, MAKES HIM ALL 329 00:39:12,583 --> 00:39:21,158 THE MORE GRATEFUL THAT A COUPLE OF JERSEY NONCONFORMISTS TIMED IT RIGHT. CAUGHT SOME BREAKS AND BECAME 330 00:39:21,225 --> 00:39:28,466 ROCK 'N' ROLL TITANS. HOW DO YOU EVEN BEGIN TO START DESCRIBING STEVEN VAN ZANDT? >> I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO 331 00:39:28,532 --> 00:39:36,607 THAT. EXCEPT ALL I CAN SAY IS I MET HIM WHEN HE WAS 16. STEVE IS THE CONSIGLIERE OF THE 332 00:39:36,674 --> 00:39:44,915 E STREET BAND. IF I HAVE QUESTIONS PERTAINING A DIRECTION FOR THE BAND, OR ISSUES WITH THE BAND, OR 333 00:39:44,982 --> 00:39:51,489 SOMETHING LIKE THE SET LIST, I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PLAY THAT NIGHT OR WHAT WE SHOULD START WITH OR IF HE HAS 334 00:39:51,555 --> 00:39:57,194 SECOND DOUBTS ABOUT SOMETHING, HE ALWAYS COMES TO ME. SO HE'S BENES SELLER TO ME SINCE -- I DON'T KNOW. 335 00:39:57,261 --> 00:40:03,968 SINCE HE WALKED INTO THE STUDIO DURING THE "BORN TO RUN" SESSIONS AND FIXED THE HORNS AND MY GUITAR PARTS. 336 00:40:04,034 --> 00:40:09,673 AND WE'VE BEEN DOING IT TOGETHER FOR A LONG TIME. AND THAT'S A WONDERFUL THING. I MEAN, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE 337 00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:18,949 THEIR BEST FRIEND AT THEIR SIDE 50 SOME YEARS LATER? >> THERE YOU ARE, KID! >> WHAT ARE YOU GUYS TALKING 338 00:40:19,016 --> 00:40:24,622 ABOUT? >> WE LIKE THE SAME MUSIC. WE LIKE THE SAME CLOTHES. >> Reporter: YOU GUYS MEET AS 339 00:40:24,688 --> 00:40:28,859 TEENAGERS. YOU'RE THESE JERSEY OUTCASTS. HERE WE ARE MORE THAN 50 YEARS LATER AND YOU'RE GOING OUT TO 340 00:40:28,926 --> 00:40:34,799 PLAY CIRCUS MAXIMUS IN ROME. >> IT'S SOMETHING. >> YOU CAN'T PUT IT TOGETHER. IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS 341 00:40:34,865 --> 00:40:40,771 THAT HAPPENED. >> Reporter: HOW DO YOU MAKE SENSE OF THAT, SERIOUSLY? >> WELL, IN A WAY IT MAKES SENSE 342 00:40:40,838 --> 00:40:47,111 BECAUSE I THINK AS WE MENTIONED, WE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE, SO WE WERE GOING -- WE WERE DESTINED TO DO THIS. 343 00:40:47,178 --> 00:40:53,951 >> AND WE DID NOTHING ELSE. SO, THAT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH IT, TOO. ALL WE DID WAS MUSIC, MUSIC, 344 00:40:54,018 --> 00:41:00,024 MUSIC, MUSIC, PLAY, PLAY, PLAY, PLAY. ♪ ♪ I'M GOING DOWN TO THE WELL 345 00:41:00,090 --> 00:41:05,129 TONIGHT GOING TO DRINK UNTIL I GET MY FILL ♪ >> Reporter: THAT, WE AND THE 346 00:41:05,196 --> 00:41:13,838 REST OF THE CROWD, EXPERIENCED FOR OURSELVES. ♪ HEY STEVE BABY ♪ ? 347 00:41:13,904 --> 00:41:17,141 I THINK IT'S TIME TO GO HOME NOW ♪ >> Reporter: STILL ROCKING OUT IN HIS 70s, TRYING TO SAVE 348 00:41:17,208 --> 00:41:25,249 RADIO, TRYING TO SAVE ROCK, WRITING SCREEN PLAYS, IF STEVEN VAN ZANDT IS ACCUSED OF BEING AN ARTIST DREAMER WITHOUT APOLOGY, 349 00:41:25,316 --> 00:41:38,295 HE'LL PLEAD GUILTY. THIS IS GOING SOUND HARSH. IS THIS THE SONIC VERSION OF DONDONEY 350 00:41:38,362 --> 00:41:47,171 QIXOTE? >> YEAH, THAT'S THE STORY OF MY LIFE. >> STEVEN VAN ZANDT ON JAMES 351 00:41:47,238 --> 00:41:51,976 BEGAN GANDOLFINI. >> YEAH, YOU WERE CLOSE. >> AY UNITED 352 00:41:52,042 --> 00:41:59,116 HEALTH CARE. THERE FOR WHAT MATTERS. >>> AS WE BEGIN THANKSGIVING WEEK, WE'RE OFFERING AN EXTRA 353 00:41:59,183 --> 00:42:06,056 HELPING OF "60 MINUTES" TONIGHT. COME COMING UP, ANDERSON COOPER HAS THE STORY OF A SLAVE SHIP AND A 354 00:42:06,123 --> 00:42:14,832 DIFFICULT AND IMPORTANT CONVERSATION YOU'LL WANT TO HEAR AMONG THE DESCENDENTS OF BOTH THE ENSLAVED AND THE ENSLAVERS. 355 00:42:14,899 --> 00:42:22,239 >> MY HOPE IS THAT THIS CAN BE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT RECONCILIATION LOOKS LIKE FOR THE NATION AS WELL AS START THE 356 00:42:22,306 --> 00:42:32,116 HEALING PROCESS FOR A NUMBER OF DESCEND DESCENDANS. >> EVERYBODY HAS THIS PERCEPTION 357 00:42:32,182 --> 00:42:37,655 THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE'RE ANGRY. >> ARE YOU ANGRY AT THE MEAHERS? >> I'M NOT ANGRY AT THE MEAHERS. 358 00:42:37,721 --> 00:42:43,761 I'M JUST ANGRY AT THE FACT THAT IT TOOK SO LONG TO SPEAK OUT. >> WE WERE SILENT FOR FAR TOO LONG. 359 00:42:43,827 --> 00:42:48,032 WE WERE D 360 00:42:51,435 --> 00:42:58,809 >>> IN 2019 WE BEGAN REPORTING ON THE DISCOVERY OF THE "CLOTILDA," A SUNKEN SLAVE SHIP FOUND IN THE BOTTOM OF AN 361 00:42:58,876 --> 00:43:05,916 ALABAMA RIVER. THE "CLOTILDA" WAS THE LAST SHIP KNOWN TO HAVE BROUGHT CAPTURED AFRICANS TO AMERICA IN 1860. 362 00:43:05,983 --> 00:43:12,923 WHAT HAPPENED TO THE 110 MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN ON BOARD IS WELL DOCUMENTED. AND THEIR STORIES HAVE BEEN 363 00:43:12,990 --> 00:43:20,297 PASSED DOWN THROUGH GENERATIONS BY THEIR DESCENDENTS, SOME OF WHOM STILL LIVE JUST A FEW MILES FROM WHERE THE SHIP WAS FOUND, 364 00:43:20,364 --> 00:43:29,540 IN A COMMUNITY CALLED AFRICATOWN. FOR 160 YEARS THIS MUDDY STRETCH OF THE MOBILE RIVER COVERED UP A 365 00:43:29,606 --> 00:43:35,746 CRIME. IN JULY 1860 THE "CLOTILDA" WAS TOWED HERE AFTER A 45-DAY VOYAGE FROM WEST AFRICA WITH 110 366 00:43:35,813 --> 00:43:43,087 ENSLAVED PEOPLE ON BOARD. >> I JUST IMAGINE MYSELF BEING ON THAT SHIP JUST LISTENING TO THE WAVES AND THE WATER AND JUST 367 00:43:43,153 --> 00:43:50,995 NOT KNOWING WHERE YOU WERE GOING. >> Reporter: JOYCELYN DAVIS, LORNA GAIL WOODS AND THOMAS 368 00:43:51,061 --> 00:44:00,371 GRIFFIN ARE DIRECT DESCENDANTS OF THIS AFRICAN MAN, OLUALE, ONCE ENSLAVED HIS OWNER CHANGED HIS NAME TO CHARLIE LEWIS. 369 00:44:00,437 --> 00:44:13,784 THIS IMAGE IS FROM AROUND 1900. POLLEE ALLEN WHOSE AFRICAN NAME WAS KUPOLLEE, SEEN IN THIS 100-YEAR-OLD SKETCH WAS THE 370 00:44:13,851 --> 00:44:20,657 ANCESTOR OF JEREMY ELLIS AND DARRON PATTERSON. >> NO CLOTHES, EATING WHERE THEY DEFECATED, ONLY ALLOWED OUT OF 371 00:44:20,724 --> 00:44:28,999 THE CARGO HOLD FOR ONE DAY A WEEK FOR TWO MONTHS. >> Reporter: THERE IS NO PHOTOGRAPHS OF PAT FRAZIER'S 372 00:44:29,066 --> 00:44:39,777 GREAT-GREAT GRANDMOTHER, LOTTIE DENISON, BUT CAPRINXIA WALLACE AND HER MOTHER CASSANDRA HAVE A SURPRISING NUMBER OF PICTURES OF 373 00:44:39,843 --> 00:44:51,755 THEIR ANCESTOR, KOSSULA, WHOSE ENSLAVER CALLED HIM CUDJO LEWIS. >> GROWING UP MY MOM MADE SURE SHE TOLD ME ALL THE STORIES THAT 374 00:44:51,822 --> 00:45:00,497 HER DAD TOLD HER ABOUT CUDJO. >> Reporter: THE STORY OF THE "CLOTILDA" BEGAN WHEN TIMOTHY MEAHER, A WEALTHY BUSINESSMAN, 375 00:45:00,564 --> 00:45:13,043 HIRED CAPTAIN FOSTER TO SMUGGLE CAPTURED AFRICAN FROM MODERN DAY BENIN TO MOBILE. MEAHER DIVIDED THEM UP BETWEEN 376 00:45:13,110 --> 00:45:26,790 HIMSELF, THE FOSTER AND SEVERAL OTHERS. CAPTAIN FOSTER CLAIMED HE THEN TURNED AND SANK THE "CLOTILDA," 377 00:45:26,857 --> 00:45:39,503 BUT EXACTLY WHERE REMAINED A SMISRY UNTIL 2018. THAT'S WHEN A LOCAL REPORTER, BEN RAINES, FOUND THE "CLOTILDA" 378 00:45:39,570 --> 00:45:45,476 IN ABOUT 20 FEET OF WATER NEXT TO LAND STILL OWNED BY THE MEAHER FAMILY. >> WE'RE COMING UP ON IT. 379 00:45:45,542 --> 00:45:51,348 >> Reporter: WE VISITED THE WRECK WITH MARITIME ARCHAEOLOGIST JAMES DELGADO IN 2020. 380 00:45:51,415 --> 00:45:55,853 >> SONAR IS ON. GOOD TO DROP. >> Reporter: THE WATER IS SO MUDDY, THE ONLY WAY TO SEE THE 381 00:45:55,919 --> 00:46:01,492 SHIP IS WITH A SONAR DEVICE. YOU CAN SEE IT TOTALLY CLEARLY. THAT'S THE SHIP. >> YES, THAT'S "CLOTILDA." 382 00:46:01,558 --> 00:46:07,364 >> Reporter: THIS IS THE BOW HERE, JUST A FEW FEET FROM THE SURFACE AND BOTH SIDES OF THE HULL. 383 00:46:07,431 --> 00:46:15,205 "CLOTILDA" IS 86 FEET LONG, BUT THE BACK OF IT, THE STERN IS BURIED DEEP IN MUD. YOU CAN SEE NOTHING. 384 00:46:15,272 --> 00:46:19,209 >> NOTHING. >> Reporter: WE DOVE ON THE WRECK BUT THERE'S ZERO VISIBILITY UNDER WATER. 385 00:46:19,276 --> 00:46:28,685 THIS WOODEN PLANK WAS ALL OUR CAMERA COULD PICK UP. TWO YEARS LATER JAMES DELGADO AND HIS TEAM, INCLUDING DIVER 386 00:46:28,752 --> 00:46:34,491 JAY HAIGLER, RETURNED TO THE WRECK TO PROPERLY EXPLORE THE SITE. THEY CAREFULLY REMOVED 98 PIECES 387 00:46:34,558 --> 00:46:40,430 OF THE "CLOTILDA" FOR EXAMINATION. >> THIS IS A VERY GOOD FIND. THIS IS OFF OF THE STERN. 388 00:46:40,497 --> 00:46:47,471 >> Reporter: INCLUDING THIS PART OF THE STEERING SYSTEM. MOST REMARKABLE OF ALL, THEY FOUND FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, 389 00:46:47,538 --> 00:46:53,710 ACCORDING TO DELGADO, THE INTACT CARGO HOLD OF A SLAVE SHIP, AND IT WAS SMALLER THAN THEY PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT. 390 00:46:53,777 --> 00:47:01,418 >> BUT THE ONLY WAY TO GET ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN WAS TO LITERALLY PUT THESE POSTS IN AND LAY THESE PLATFORMS, AS THEY CALLED THEM, 391 00:47:01,485 --> 00:47:09,326 A FOOT AND A HALF APART AND LITERALLY CRAM PEOPLE IN. >> Reporter: DELGADO HELPED US CREATE THIS ANIMATION THAT SHOWS 392 00:47:09,393 --> 00:47:16,200 THE POST THEY FOUND STILL UPRIGHT IN THE CARGO HOLD. THE WOODEN PLATFORMS WHERE THE 110 CAPTIVES HAD BEEN FORCED TO 393 00:47:16,266 --> 00:47:24,141 LIE, CROWDED TOGETHER, SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, STACKED ON TOP OF EACH OTHER IN NEAR TOTAL DARKNESS FOR THE 45-DAY VOYAGE. 394 00:47:24,208 --> 00:47:33,083 >> THE BRITISH HAD DEVELOPED A RULE ON HOW TO DO THIS. SO IT WAS A FOOT AND A HALF BY FIVE FEET FOR A MAN. 395 00:47:33,150 --> 00:47:38,055 A FOOT AND FOUR INCHES FOR A WOMAN. AND A FOOT FOR A CHILD. >> Reporter: A CHILD WOULD GET 396 00:47:38,121 --> 00:47:49,132 ONE FOOT OF BODY SPACE? >> AND WHEN YOU USE THAT VERY BUREAUCRATIC, CRUEL, EVIL MATH, YOU COULD CRAM THE 110 PEOPLE IN 397 00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:58,575 THERE IN HORRIFIC CONDITIONS. >> Reporter: JAY HAIGLER HAD DIVED ON SLAVE SHIPS BEFORE, BUT NEVER INSIDE A CARGO HOLD. 398 00:47:58,642 --> 00:48:02,813 >> AND ONCE I GOT DOWN THERE, THERE WAS A CALMNESS THAT WAS AROUND. IT REALLY KIND OF WASHED OVER 399 00:48:02,879 --> 00:48:12,089 ME. AND THEN I REALLY FELT THE PRESENCE OF THE 110 ANCESTORS. I WAS A DIFFERENT PERSON THAT 400 00:48:12,155 --> 00:48:17,794 CAME OUT OF THAT CARGO HOLD THAN I WAS WHEN I WENT IN. >> Reporter: YOU REALLY FEEL THAT? 401 00:48:17,861 --> 00:48:22,566 >> OH, ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. IT WAS A SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. >> Reporter: SOME OF THE SHIP'S 402 00:48:22,633 --> 00:48:29,906 PIECES, DELGADO'S TEAM RETRIEVED, ARE NOW ON DISPLAY IN A NEW MUSEUM CALLED AFRICATOWN HERITAGE HOUSE, WHICH OPENED IN 403 00:48:29,973 --> 00:48:38,682 JLY JUST A FEW MILES AWAY FROM THE WRECK. ♪ >> Reporter: AFRICATOWN WAS 404 00:48:38,749 --> 00:48:44,488 FOUNDED THREE YEARS AFTER EMANCIPATION BY 30 OF THE AFRICANS FROM THE "CLOTILDA." IT IS THE ONLY SURVIVING 405 00:48:44,554 --> 00:48:52,629 COMMUNITY IN AMERICA FOUNDED BY AFRICANS, AND SOME OF THEIR DESCENDENTS STILL CALL IT HOME. WHO LIVES HERE NOW? 406 00:48:52,696 --> 00:48:59,803 >> FAMILY MEMBERS, COUSINS. >> Reporter: JOYCELYN DAVIS TOOK HER TO THE STREET HER GREAT, GREAT, GREAT GRANDFATHER CHARLIE 407 00:48:59,870 --> 00:49:04,641 LEWIS LIVED ON. IT'S STILL CALLED LEWIS QUARTERS. SO PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE ON THIS 408 00:49:04,708 --> 00:49:09,646 STREET CAN TRACE THEIR LINEAGE BACK TO CHARLIE LEWIS? >> YES, EVERYONE HERE IS RELATED. 409 00:49:09,713 --> 00:49:18,422 >> Reporter: IN AN INTERVIEW PUBLISHED IN 1914, CUDJO LEWIS SAID WHEN HE AND THE OTHER "CLOTILDA" SURVIVORS WERE FREED 410 00:49:18,488 --> 00:49:26,430 AFTER FIVE YEARS OF ENSLAVEMENT, HE ASKED TIMOTHY MEAHER TO HELP THEM RETURN TO AFRICA, BUT MEAHER REFUSED. 411 00:49:26,496 --> 00:49:32,903 MEAHER ALSO TRIED TO PREVENT THEM FROM VOTING. AND SOME FOUND WORK IN A SAW MILL MEAHER OWNED. 412 00:49:32,969 --> 00:49:38,342 >> THEY SAVED THEIR MONEY TO BUY LAND. >> Reporter: THIS RARE FILM SHOWS CUDJO LEWIS IN HIS 80s, 413 00:49:38,408 --> 00:49:51,855 WHEN HE WAS ONE OF THE "CLOTILDA'S" LAST SURVIVORS. HE HELPED FOUNDED THIS CHURCH, THE SAME CHURCH MANY "CLOTILDA" 414 00:49:51,922 --> 00:49:57,027 DESCEND DESCEND DESCENDENTS ATTEND TODAY. AFTER EMANCIPATION IT SEEMS 415 00:49:57,094 --> 00:50:02,632 UNLIKELY THAT A GROUP OF FREED SLAVES COULD POOL THEIR RESOURCES AND BUILD A COMMUNITY. I MEAN, THAT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY 416 00:50:02,699 --> 00:50:09,506 THING. >> THERE'S THIS THING WE SAY ABOUT MAKING A WAY OUT OF NO WAY. 417 00:50:09,573 --> 00:50:17,481 >> Reporter: MARY IS CURATOR AT SMITH SMITHSONIAN SMITHSONIAN. 418 00:50:17,547 --> 00:50:22,953 >> WHEN THESE FOLKS WERE FORCED OVER HERE FROM THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA. THEY DIDN'T COME WITH EMPTY 419 00:50:23,019 --> 00:50:28,525 HEADS. THEY CAME WITH EMPTY HANDS. SO THEY FOUND A WAY TO MAKE A WAY AND THEY WERE RESILIENT 420 00:50:28,592 --> 00:50:32,662 AFRICATOWN WAS ONCE A VIBRANT COMMUNITY. THERE WERE BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES. 421 00:50:32,729 --> 00:50:37,501 THE FIRST BLACK SCHOOL IN MOBILE. BY THE 1960s, 12,000 PEOPLE LIVED HERE. 422 00:50:37,567 --> 00:50:44,408 BUT THOSE BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES ARE GONE, AN INTERSTATE HIGHWAY WAS BUILT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF AFRICATOWN IN THE EARLY 1990s. 423 00:50:44,474 --> 00:50:51,114 AND THERE ARE ONLY ABOUT 800 RESIDENTS REMAINING. LIVING IN SMALL CLUSTERS OF HOMES SURROUNDED BY FACTORIES 424 00:50:51,181 --> 00:50:59,589 AND CHEMICAL PLANTS. NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO IN AFRICATOWN, CAN YOU HEAR FACTORIES AND INDUSTRY AND THE 425 00:50:59,656 --> 00:51:04,127 HIGHWAY. >> THERE IS THIS CONSTANT BUZZ. IT'S A BUZZ YOU HEAR ALL THE TIME DAY AND NIGHT. 426 00:51:04,194 --> 00:51:11,535 AND IT'S A CONSTANT REMINDER OF THE BREAKUP OF THIS COMMUNITY. >> Reporter: SINCE THE "CLOTILDA" 427 00:51:11,601 --> 00:51:17,941 "CLOTILDA'S" DISCOVERY, SOME $10 MILLION IN CITY, STATE, FEDERAL AND PHILANTHROPIC FUNDS HAVE GONE INTO THE REVITALIZATION OF 428 00:51:18,008 --> 00:51:26,049 AFRICATOWN, BUT THE DESCEND ANTS OF TIMOTHY MEAHER, THE SLAVE OWNER, REFUSED TO MEET. THE MEAHER FAMILY STILL OWNS 429 00:51:26,116 --> 00:51:32,522 ABOUT 14% OF THE LAND IN HISTORIC AFRICATOWN, AND THEIR PROPERTY MARKERS ARE HARD TO MISS. 430 00:51:32,589 --> 00:51:41,298 THERE'S EVEN STREETS NEARBY NAMED TIMOTHY MEAHER. COURT FILINGS FROM 2012 INDICATE THE MEAHERS' REAL ESTATE AND 431 00:51:41,364 --> 00:51:48,505 TIMBER BUSINESS IS WORTH AN ESTIMATED $36 MILLION. WHEN WE FIRST VISITED IN 2020, THE MEAHERS WEREN'T TALKING, TO 432 00:51:48,572 --> 00:51:57,147 US OR THE "CLOTILDA" DESCENDENTS. >> THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. 433 00:51:57,214 --> 00:52:03,019 >> BECAUSE THEY BENEFITTED IT. >> THAT'S IT. THEY BENEFITTED. THAT'S PART OF THEIR WEALTH WAS 434 00:52:03,086 --> 00:52:08,124 DERIVED AND THAT ON THE BACKS OF THOSE PEOPLE. >> Reporter: WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO SAY TO THEM, IF THEY WERE 435 00:52:08,191 --> 00:52:15,398 WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE, YOU KNOW, HAVE A COFFEE? >> WE WOULD FIRST NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT WAS DONE IN THE 436 00:52:15,465 --> 00:52:23,106 PAST. AND THERE'S AN ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE THAT YOUR FAMILY, FOR THIS MANY YEARS, FIVE YEARS, AND THE 437 00:52:23,173 --> 00:52:35,785 THIRD PIECE WOULD BE HOW DO WE PARTNER TOGETHER WITH -- IN AFRICATOWN? >> Reporter: THIS PAST JULY, 438 00:52:35,852 --> 00:52:56,840 DESCEND DESCENDANTS OF TIMOTHY MEAHER AGREED TO A MEETING OF THE ENSLAVED AFRICANS TO ALABAMA ON 439 00:52:56,907 --> 00:53:07,484 THE "CLOTILDA" HAVE BEEN TRYING TO MEET WITH DESCENDANTS OF TIMOTHY MEAHER. THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING 440 00:53:07,551 --> 00:53:15,926 THEIR ANCESTOR HERE IN 1860. LAST YEAR A NEW GENERATION TOOK CONTROL OF THE MEAHER FAMILY BUSINESS AND BEGAN TO EXPLORE 441 00:53:15,992 --> 00:53:25,669 RECONCILIATION. A FEW MONTHS AGO WE WITNESSED A SITDOWN BETWEEN THE MODERN DAY MEAHERS AND THE RELATIVES OF THE 442 00:53:25,735 --> 00:53:32,142 MEN AND WOMEN, THEIR ANSWER SESERS ENSLAVED. >> THE MEETING TOOK PLACE IN A CONFERENCE ROOM IN MOBILE'S 443 00:53:32,208 --> 00:53:39,916 HISTORY MUSEUM THIS PAST JULY. >> I PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT THAT THIS DAY WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, LADIES, BECAUSE PEOPLE KEPT 444 00:53:39,983 --> 00:53:44,721 SAYING, THE MEAHERS HAVE KEPT QUIET. THEY HAVE ONLY SPOKEN THROUGH THEIR LAWYERS. 445 00:53:44,788 --> 00:53:52,529 >> Reporter: PAT FRAZIER WAS REPRESENTING THE "CLOTILDA" DESCEND DESCENDANTS ASSOCIATION ALONG 446 00:53:52,596 --> 00:53:58,868 WITH JOYCELYN DAVIS AND ITS PRESIDENT, JEREMY ELLIS. >> MY HOPE IS THAT THIS CAN BE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT 447 00:53:58,935 --> 00:54:03,206 RECONCILIATION LOOKS LIKE AS WELL AS START THE HEALING PROCESS. >> EVERYBODY HAS THIS PERCEPTION 448 00:54:03,273 --> 00:54:11,915 THAT, UP, MAYBE WE'RE ANGRY. >> Reporter: ARE YOU ANGRY AT THE MEAHERS? >> I'M NOT ANGRY AT THE MEAHERS. 449 00:54:11,982 --> 00:54:19,155 I'M JUST ANGRY OF THE FACT IT TOOK SO LONG TO SPEAK OUT. >> WE WERE SILENT FOR FAR TOO LONG AND WE WERE DISTANT FOR FAR 450 00:54:19,222 --> 00:54:24,260 TOO LONG. WE'RE HAPPY TO FINALLY BREAK THE SILENCE AND TO NARROW THE DISTANCE. 451 00:54:24,327 --> 00:54:31,101 >> Reporter: THAT'S MEG MEAHER, GREAT, GREAT GRANDDAUGHTER OF TIMOTHY MEAHER. SHE'S AN ACCOUNTANT WHO OVERSEES 452 00:54:31,167 --> 00:54:36,206 THE FAMILY'S BUSINESS HOLDING AND PROPERTY, ALONG WITH HER SISTER, HELEN, AN ATTORNEY. >> I KNOW THERE'S NO WORDS THAT 453 00:54:36,272 --> 00:54:46,483 I CAN SAY THAT ADEQUATELY ADDRESS THE HORRORS THAT YOUR ANCESTORS ENDURED AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE ACTIONS BY MY 454 00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:53,490 ANCESTOR, TIMOTHY MEAHER. WE CAN OFFER THIS GENERATION'S HEART-FELT APOLOGY, BUT IT'S EASY TO SAY THINGS. 455 00:54:53,556 --> 00:54:57,160 WE'RE GOING TO START DOING THINGS. >> Reporter: CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY YOU WERE 456 00:54:57,227 --> 00:55:02,699 SILENT OR WHY THE FAMILY WAS? >> YEAH. OUR FAMILY IS -- IT'S LIKE SOME OTHER FAMILIES. 457 00:55:02,766 --> 00:55:11,107 WE HAVE LOTS OF LAYERS AND COMPLEXITIES AND, YOU KNOW, SOME DYSFUNCTIONS. WE HAVE BEEN IN LIKE A LAWSUIT 458 00:55:11,174 --> 00:55:18,248 AMONG FAMILY MEMBERS. AND THAT FINALLY RESOLVED JUST A YEAR AGO. SO, NOW IT'S -- REALLY IT'S OUR 459 00:55:18,314 --> 00:55:23,953 GENERATION THAT'S BEEN ABLE TO STEP UP. >> WHAT DOES RECONCILIATION LOOK LIKE TO YOU? 460 00:55:24,020 --> 00:55:29,392 >> I TOLD THIS TO ANDERSON YESTERDAY. I HOPE HE COMES BACK IN TEN YEARS AND AFRICATOWN IS A 461 00:55:29,459 --> 00:55:35,365 THRIVING PLACE. AND THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO PLAY A PART IN HELPING THAT TRANSFORMATION. 462 00:55:35,432 --> 00:55:44,007 >> AND I THINK ABOUT BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS AND SEEING WHAT WAYS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN GET BACK. >> Reporter: HELEN GREW UP A FEW 463 00:55:44,074 --> 00:55:50,447 MILES FROM AFRICATOWN, BUT HAD NEVER BEEN THERE UNTIL LAST YEAR, WHEN SHE STARTED VOLUNTEERING AT A FOOD BANK. 464 00:55:50,513 --> 00:56:00,724 AS A FIRST STEP TO MAKE AMENDS, IN 2021 HELEN AND MEG SOLD THIS PLOT OF LAND HAD AFRICATOWN TO THE CITY OF MOBILE FOR $50,000. 465 00:56:00,790 --> 00:56:06,096 A FRACTION OF ITS APPRAISED VALUE. IT WILL BE HOME TO COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ORGANIZATIONS AND A 466 00:56:06,162 --> 00:56:13,036 NEW FOOD BANK. MEG AND HELEN STILL OWN ABOUT 14% OF THE LAND IN HISTORIC AFRICATOWN. 467 00:56:13,103 --> 00:56:21,377 >> WE HAVE SOME ASK, SPECIFIC ASKS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE ACCOMPLISHED. >> Reporter: YOU'RE TALKING 468 00:56:21,444 --> 00:56:28,551 ABOUT PLOTS OF LAND? >> WE BELIEVE THAT WITHIN THAT HISTORIC DISTRICT OF AFRICATOWN, THERE ARE PARCELS OF LAND THAT 469 00:56:28,618 --> 00:56:33,957 WE SHOULD HAVE OWNERSHIP IN. A LAND TRUST -- >> Reporter: A LAND TRUST? >> UH-HUH. 470 00:56:34,023 --> 00:56:40,997 >> Reporter: THAT LAND WOULD THEN BE LEASED OUT TO -- FOR A BUSINESS? >> WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF A 471 00:56:41,064 --> 00:56:52,575 COMPANY LIKE WALMART COULD PARTNER WITH DESCENDANTS AND LEASE OUT LAND FROM DESCENDANTS. >> THERE'S A TRUST AND THERE'S 472 00:56:52,642 --> 00:57:00,083 LAND AND PEOPLE CAN HAVE SERVICES THAT THEY DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE. TODAY YOU COULDN'T GET, YOU 473 00:57:00,150 --> 00:57:09,692 KNOW, A LOAF OF BREAD WITHOUT HAVING TO DRIVE MILES AWAY. THE STREETLIGHTS ARE SO POOR. THE ROADS ARE SO BAD. 474 00:57:09,759 --> 00:57:18,001 THE DILAPIDATED HOUSING IS SO TERRIBLE. OR MAYBE THERE CAN BE EDUCATIONAL TRUST FUNDS THAT 475 00:57:18,067 --> 00:57:24,908 SOMEBODY WOULD GO TO COLLEGE AND NOT BE SADDLED WITH STUDENT LOANS. >> I HAVE A DAUGHTER. 476 00:57:24,974 --> 00:57:34,117 AND I BELIEVE THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF EDUCATION THAT THE MEAHER FAMILY EXPERIENCED, BUT WE BELIEVE THE 477 00:57:34,184 --> 00:57:44,160 SAME LEVEL OF EDUCATION SHOULD BE PROVIDED TO ALL DESCENDANTS. A LOT OF FOCUS AS IT SHOULD BE IS ON AFRICATOWN, BUT AS THE 478 00:57:44,227 --> 00:57:54,170 PRESIDENT OF THE ORGANIZATION, I HAVE TO BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT THOSE OTHER SURVIVORS THAT MAYBE DIDN'T GROW UP IN AFRICATOWN, 479 00:57:54,237 --> 00:58:02,378 BUT THEY STILL WERE IMPACTED BY THIS STORY. >> Reporter: SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 110 PEOPLE ON THE 480 00:58:02,445 --> 00:58:06,716 "CLOTILDA." >> RIGHT. >> Reporter: THEIR DESCENDANTS PROBABLY NUMBER IN THE 481 00:58:06,783 --> 00:58:12,422 THOUSANDS. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THESE TWO PEOPLE TO MAKE IT RIGHT FOR THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE? 482 00:58:12,488 --> 00:58:19,362 >> WE NEVER ASKED THAT. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CONSPIRATORS WHO PLAYED A ROLE. YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT BITE BY 483 00:58:19,429 --> 00:58:26,803 BITE, BUT IF YOU HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION, AT LEAST WE KNOW WHAT THE PARAMETERS ARE TO WORK WITHIN. 484 00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:33,443 >> Reporter: DO YOU THINK THEY BEAR RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ACTIONS OF TIMOTHY MEAHER AND SUBSEQUENT GENERATIONS? 485 00:58:33,509 --> 00:58:43,553 >> SO, I FEEL LIKE THEY CAN'T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THEIR FOREFATHERS DID, HOWEVER, I WANT THEM TO RECOGNIZE HOW THAT 486 00:58:43,620 --> 00:58:53,830 BEHAVIOR BENEFITED THEM AND WORKED TO THE DISADVANTAGE OF US. JUST LIKE THEY'VE HAD MULTIPLE 487 00:58:53,897 --> 00:59:00,270 GENERATIONS OF WEALTH. THE ORIGINAL SLAVES AND THEIR DESCENDANTS HAVEN'T. >> Reporter: THE INABILITY TO 488 00:59:00,336 --> 00:59:04,240 PURCHASE LAND -- >> COULDN'T BUILD ON ANYTHING. >> Reporter: AND FUTURE GENERATIONAL WEALTH PASSED DOWN 489 00:59:04,307 --> 00:59:11,247 THROUGH REAL ESTATE -- >> NONE OF THAT, NONE OF THAT. >> Reporter: ARE THERE PARCELS OF LAND IN AFRICATOWN THAT YOU 490 00:59:11,314 --> 00:59:17,587 ARE FINANCIALLY DEPENDENT ON, THAT YOU'RE MAKING MONEY FROM? >> I WOULD HAVE TO REVIEW THAT BETTER. 491 00:59:17,654 --> 00:59:21,324 SINCE I HAVE JUST TAKEN ON THIS NEW ROLE. THERE'S STILL SO MUCH THAT I'M LEARNING. 492 00:59:21,391 --> 00:59:29,832 WE'RE STILL KEEPING AN OPEN MIND AND WORKING ON FIGURING OUT NEXT STEPS. AND I'M NOT SHUTTING A DOOR ON 493 00:59:29,899 --> 00:59:36,306 ANYTHING. >> Reporter: YOU SAID YOU DON'T HOLD HELEN AND MEG RESPONSIBLE, BUT YOU ARE ASKING THEM TO PAY 494 00:59:36,372 --> 00:59:41,010 REPARATIONS. >> IT'S RECONCILIATION. I'VE NEVER USED THE WORD REPARATION. 495 00:59:41,077 --> 00:59:46,783 >> I'M ASKING FOR LAND -- I'M ASKING FOR LAND THAT'S UNDEVELOPED. THAT'S BEEN UNDEVELOPED FOR 496 00:59:46,849 --> 00:59:49,953 DECADES. >> Reporter: WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RECONCILIATION AND REPARATIONS? 497 00:59:50,019 --> 00:59:55,758 >> I THINK REPARATIONS ENCOMPASSES A LOT MORE. I THINK IT'S MORE THAN JUST LAND. 498 00:59:55,825 --> 01:00:05,401 I THINK THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT REPARATIONS, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH ASPECT OF THINGS AND THE MENTAL -- THAT 499 01:00:05,468 --> 01:00:12,575 FOLKS HAVE ENDURED. >> Reporter: WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY WHO'S WATCHING THIS WHO'S WHITE AND THINKS, THIS IS 500 01:00:12,642 --> 01:00:20,383 SCARY, THAT I CAN BE HELD FINANCIALLY LIABLE FOR SOMETHING A GREAT, GREAT, GREAT GRANDPARENT DID THAT I DIDN'T 501 01:00:20,450 --> 01:00:26,055 EVEN KNOW ABOUT OR I JUST LEARNED ABOUT? >> OUR ACTIONS CAN SHOW THEM THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE 502 01:00:26,122 --> 01:00:32,762 DONE. AND THIS IS WHAT RECONCILIATION LOOKS LIKE FOR THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED THROUGH 503 01:00:32,829 --> 01:00:40,003 GENERATIONS, RIGHT? >> Reporter: NOT ALL OF THE CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT LAND OR POSSIBLE SCHOLARSHIPS FOR 504 01:00:40,069 --> 01:00:45,675 DESCENDANTS DESCENDANTS' CHILDREN. JOCELYN DAVIS WANTED THEM TO REMOVE THEIR PROPERTY MARKERS IN 505 01:00:45,742 --> 01:00:51,547 AFRICATOWN. >> HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU WERE GOING INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU SAW THE ENSLAVER'S NAME 506 01:00:51,614 --> 01:00:57,620 ON ALMOST EVERY CORNER THAT YOU PASS? IT'S LIKE A CONSTANT -- >> REMINDER. 507 01:00:57,687 --> 01:01:03,192 >> -- REMINDER. >> REMINDER. >> I WOULD HATE IT. >> IT'S LIKE, HMM, YOU KNOW. 508 01:01:03,259 --> 01:01:12,368 IT'S LIKE, OH, WOW. >> IS IT A HMMO OR ARE YOU F'ing KIDDING ME? >> BOTH. 509 01:01:12,435 --> 01:01:19,976 IT'S A LITTLE OF BOTH. >> WE CAN WORK TO REMOVE THOSE MONUMENTS. I KNOW THAT'S A SMALL STEP, BUT 510 01:01:20,043 --> 01:01:26,049 IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO SEE EVERY DAY. THAT'S A FIRST STEP WE CAN TAKE. I CAN'T CHANGE THE STREET SIGNS 511 01:01:26,115 --> 01:01:31,821 BECAUSE THAT'S THE CITY. >> Reporter: THE DESCENDANTS ALSO WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT ANY ARTIFACTS THAT MIGHT HAVE 512 01:01:31,888 --> 01:01:40,363 BELONGED TO THEIR ANCESTORS OR FROM THE "CLOTILDA" KEPT OR HIDDEN AWAY BY PAST GENERATIONS OF MEAHERS. 513 01:01:40,430 --> 01:01:45,701 ARE THERE ANY ARTIFACTS THAT YOU HAVE? >> WE DO NOT HAVE ANY ARTIFACTS, THAT I'M AWARE OF. 514 01:01:45,768 --> 01:01:52,375 WE'VE LOOKED REALLY HARD. >> I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE AREN'T FAMILY RELICS. I JUST WANT TO THINK THAT PEOPLE 515 01:01:52,442 --> 01:01:58,081 PRESERVE THINGS OF SOME SIGNIFICANCE. >> Reporter: AND THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO YOU? 516 01:01:58,147 --> 01:02:02,752 >> ABSOLUTELY. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO LEARN ABOUT THEIR ANCESTORS. >> I CAN TELL YOU, WE'RE 517 01:02:02,819 --> 01:02:06,856 CONTINUING TO LOOK AS WE GO THROUGH STUFF. >> YEAH, WE ARE. >> Reporter: ONE OF THE FEW 518 01:02:06,923 --> 01:02:20,336 ARTIFACTS THEY FOUND SO FAR IS THIS CANE, WHICH BELONGED TO TIMOTHY MEAHER'S BROTHER, BYRNES, THE MAN WHO ENSLAVED PAT 519 01:02:20,403 --> 01:02:25,775 FRAZIER'S GREAT GRANDMOTHER? >> I WANT TO SEE IT. >> THIS IS THE CANE THAT BELONGED TO THE MAN WHO 520 01:02:25,842 --> 01:02:34,884 PURCHASED YOUR -- >> MY ANCESTORS, EXACTLY. THANK YOU. >> SURE. 521 01:02:34,951 --> 01:02:40,790 >> Reporter: WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO TOUCH SOMETHING LIKE THAT? >> WELL, IT MAKES ME SAD BECAUSE 522 01:02:40,857 --> 01:02:48,564 IT JUST REALLY MAKES YOU REMEMBER THE HARDSHIP. >> Reporter: I CAN HEAR THE SADNESS IN YOUR VOICE. 523 01:02:48,631 --> 01:02:54,637 >> YEAH, I'M VERY SAD. >> Reporter: THE MEETING LASTED ABOUT TWO HOURS. AND THOUGH NO FINANCIAL 524 01:02:54,704 --> 01:03:01,144 COMMITMENTS WERE MADE, THE MEAHERS HAVE BEGUN REMOVING THEIR PROPERTY MARKERS AND ARE DONATING MORE LAND AROUND THE 525 01:03:01,210 --> 01:03:07,984 FOOD BANK. IN ADDITION TO THE DESCENDANTS, THE MEAHERS SAY THEY'RE CONSULTING WITH FINANCIAL 526 01:03:08,050 --> 01:03:13,723 PLANNERS AND OTHER COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ORGANIZATIONS IN AFRICATOWN TO WEIGH THEIR NEXT STEPS. 527 01:03:13,789 --> 01:03:20,763 WHAT ARE YOUR BIGGEST CONCERNS? LIKE, WHAT ARE THE CALCULATIONS YOU'RE MAKING? >> WE DON'T WANT TO GENERATE 528 01:03:20,830 --> 01:03:25,902 CONFLICT BECAUSE WE DO KNOW THERE ARE DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS. SO, THAT'S MY BIGGEST CONCERN. 529 01:03:25,968 --> 01:03:33,643 HOW DO WE NOT CAUSE CONFLICT WORKING WITH EVERYONE? >> I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. THEY'VE COME TO THE TABLE, 530 01:03:33,709 --> 01:03:39,882 TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND THEY WANT TO BE INTENTIONAL WITH THE DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE. 531 01:03:39,949 --> 01:03:44,220 I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT PERSPECTIVE. >> I MEAN, I THINK SOME OF IT IS JUST RED TAPE. 532 01:03:44,287 --> 01:03:51,694 I MEAN, IF WE HAVE TO DO A TRANSFER OF PROPERTY, YOU JUST WANT TO, I GUESS, ENSURE THAT EVERYTHING IS BEING DONE 533 01:03:51,761 --> 01:03:59,068 CORRECTLY. THIS IS GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME. IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. >> AND I AGREE THAT IT'S NOT 534 01:03:59,135 --> 01:04:07,710 EASY WORK. EVEN THE ASK ISN'T EASY, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT AN EASY THING TO DO. >> IN YOUR DREAM, AFRICATOWN 535 01:04:07,777 --> 01:04:11,614 WOULD BECOME A THRIVING COMMUNITY. >> YES, AGAIN. >> Reporter: AGAIN. 536 01:04:11,681 --> 01:04:14,850 DO YOU THINK THESE CONVERSATIONS NEED TO BE HAD ACROSS THE NATION? >> YES. 537 01:04:14,917 --> 01:04:20,556 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. >> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY. >> AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE FAIL 538 01:04:20,623 --> 01:04:28,397 TO DO IN THIS COUNTRY. AND THERE IS SOME MISCONCEPTION ON THE PART OF, I THINK, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT THOSE ARE JUST 539 01:04:28,464 --> 01:04:36,906 SOME GREEDY ANCESTORS THAT ARE TRYING TO GET SOME HANDOUTS. THEY WANT SOME MORE HANDOUTS. >> LET ME BE VERY CLEAR ALSO -- 540 01:04:36,973 --> 01:04:47,516 >> NO. >> WE DID NOT COME TO THE TABLE SAYING, WE WANT EVERYTHING. WE WERE VERY INTENTIONAL ABOUT 541 01:04:47,583 --> 01:04:55,391 WHAT THOSE ASKS WERE. AND SO, WE'RE JUST COMING TO THE TABLE REASONABLY, RESPECTFULLY AND AUTHENTIC. 542 01:05:02,898 --> 01:05:08,137 >>> I'M CECILIA VEGA. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES." HAPPY THANKSGIVING.