1 00:00:11,044 --> 00:00:18,852 >>> WHEN RUSSIA SHELLED THIS CITY TO RUIN, IT CAPTURED UKRAINIAN TROOPS, INCLUDING THESE THREE WOMEN. 2 00:00:18,918 --> 00:00:29,362 >> THE FIGHT THERE WAS DESPERATE. >> Translator: YES, THIS WAS NONSTOP FIGHTING, NONSTOP 3 00:00:29,429 --> 00:00:34,901 SHELLING. TONIGHT, STORIES OF SURVIVAL IN P.O.W. CAMPS THAT THE U.N. CONDEMNS FOR TORTURE. 4 00:00:34,968 --> 00:00:46,880 >> WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT YOU WERE PREGNANT? >>> LAST MONTH, MICROSOFT INTRODUCED A NEW CHATBOT POWERED 5 00:00:46,946 --> 00:00:56,990 BY ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE THAT SEEMED TO HAVE A MENACING ALTER-EGO CALLED SYDNEY. BUT SHE TALKED LIKE A PERSON AND 6 00:00:57,056 --> 00:01:05,598 SHE SAID SHE HAD FEELINGS. >> YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS A POINT WHERE WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE WHEN WE'RE TALKING TO A MACHINE. 7 00:01:05,665 --> 00:01:16,443 ♪ ♪ >>> THIS IS ONE OF DAVID BYRNE'S FIRST PERFORMANCES. 8 00:01:16,509 --> 00:01:29,823 IT WAS 1975 AT CBGB'S, A LEGENDARY CLUB WHERE THE RAMONES, PATTI SMITH, AND BLONDIE WERE ALL JUST GETTING 9 00:01:29,889 --> 00:01:34,961 STARTED. >> SO I WANT TO BE VERY MATTER OF FACT. IT'S NOT LIKE, ARE WE HAVING FUN 10 00:01:35,028 --> 00:01:42,068 TONIGHT? HOW ARE YOU ALL DOING, NEW YORK! >>> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BILL WHITAKER. 11 00:01:42,135 --> 00:01:46,940 >> I'M ANDERSON COOPER. >> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI. >> I'M JON WERTHEIM. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. 12 00:01:47,006 --> 00:02:02,222 THOSE STORIES AND MORE TONIGHT ON "60 MINUTES." >> ONE ATROCITY IN VLADIMIR PUTIN'S UNPROVOKED WAR IN 13 00:02:02,288 --> 00:02:11,197 UKRAINE IS LARGELY HIDDEN - THE TORTURE OF PRISONERS. WE MET THREE FORMER P.O.W.s, SURVIVORS IN KYIV, UKRAINE'S 14 00:02:11,264 --> 00:02:18,071 CAPITAL. THEY WERE SOLDIERS, AND ALL WOMEN. WHAT THEY SAY IS EXTREMELY 15 00:02:18,137 --> 00:02:25,478 DISTURBING. THEIR STORIES CAN'T BE VERIFIED INDEPENDENTLY, BUT THEY TRACK WITH THE TESTIMONY THAT THE U.N. 16 00:02:25,545 --> 00:02:36,055 COLLECTED FROM MORE THAN 150 FORMER PRISONERS. AT THE END OF A VICIOUS BATTLE, FEAR OF RUSSIAN CAPTIVITY WAS SO 17 00:02:36,122 --> 00:02:51,905 GREAT THAT ONE OF THE WOMEN WE MET SIMPLY LOOKED TO GOD AND SAID, "PLEASE LET ME DIE." >> THEY FOUGHT HERE, IN THE 18 00:02:51,971 --> 00:02:57,744 SOUTHERN PORT CITY OF MARIUPOL. ONCE ALIVE WITH 400,000 RESIDENTS, PUTIN SHELLED MARIUPOL TO MISERY. 19 00:02:57,810 --> 00:03:04,117 IN APRIL, THE LAST UKRAINIAN TROOPS WERE CORNERED IN THOSE STEEL MILLS ABOVE THE GRAVEYARD. >> TELL ME ABOUT THE FIGHT AT 20 00:03:04,183 --> 00:03:15,762 THE STEEL PLANT. >> 35-YEAR-OLD SERGEANT IRYNA STOGNIY IS A MEDIC. >> Translator: WE SAW PEOPLE 21 00:03:15,828 --> 00:03:29,475 DYING, CHILDREN DYING, CHILDREN'S HEADS BEING BLOWN OFF...CIVILIANS...IT'S HARD TO BRING THOSE MEMORIES BACK. 22 00:03:29,542 --> 00:03:39,018 >> HARD, BECAUSE AT LEAST 25,000 CIVILIANS WERE KILLED. >> SHE CONTINUED, WE TRIED TO HELP CIVILIANS. 23 00:03:39,085 --> 00:03:45,858 WE TRIED TO GIVE THEM SOME ASSISTANCE, AT LEAST SOMETHING, WATER, MEDICINE, FOOD. THERE WERE LITTLE CHILDREN WITH 24 00:03:45,925 --> 00:03:57,403 US. IT'S HARD TO WATCH YOUR FRIEND'S HEAD BE BLOWN OFF IN FRONT OF YOU. 25 00:03:57,470 --> 00:04:10,883 IT WAS -- YOU CAN'T DESCRIBE THIS WITH WORDS, DIFFICULT, VERY DIFFICULT WHEN PEOPLE YOU KNOW, AND CHILDREN, DIE FOR NOTHING. 26 00:04:10,950 --> 00:04:20,927 >> SERGEANT STOGNIY SERVED IN MARIUPOL WITH CAPTAIN MARIANA MAMONOVA, A 31-YEAR-OLD MILITARY DOCTOR. 27 00:04:20,994 --> 00:04:29,902 >> SHE TOLD US, THERE WAS ONE TIME WHEN WE SAW A FAMILY RUNNING AS WE WERE DRIVING TO SAVE OUR SOLDIERS. 28 00:04:29,969 --> 00:04:37,276 AND WHEN WE WERE COMING BACK, THE FATHER WAS CRYING OVER HIS FAMILY - THE BODIES OF THE MOM AND A LITTLE CHILD. 29 00:04:37,343 --> 00:04:46,252 >> ALSO AT THE STEEL MILL, 33-YEAR-OLD SERGEANT ANASTASIA CHORNENKA RAN COMMUNICATIONS. >> THE FIGHT THERE WAS 30 00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:54,160 DESPERATE. >> Translator: YES, CONSTANT AVIATION, ARTILLERY. THIS WAS NONSTOP FIGHTING, 31 00:04:54,227 --> 00:05:07,940 NONSTOP SHELLING. >> DURING THE BATTLE CHORNENKA OFTEN SENT HER FAMILY A TEXT - JUST ONE CHARACTER. 32 00:05:08,007 --> 00:05:16,916 >> SHE SAID, IT WAS VERY QUICK. IF YOU SENT A "PLUS" SIGN, IT MEANT YOU WERE ALIVE. >> DR. MAMONOVA ALSO HAD A 33 00:05:16,983 --> 00:05:25,358 MESSAGE. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOR HER HUSBAND BACK HOME. BUT SHE WOULD NOT SEND IT. 34 00:05:25,425 --> 00:05:39,806 >> WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT YOU WERE PREGNANT? >> Translator: I REALIZED THAT I WAS PREGNANT IN THE MIDDLE OF 35 00:05:39,872 --> 00:05:46,979 MARCH. AND WHEN I SAW THAT THE TEST RESULT WAS POSITIVE, I CRIED. I WAS HYSTERICAL. 36 00:05:47,046 --> 00:05:54,921 >> BUT SHE DIDN'T WANT HER HUSBAND TO KNOW HOW MUCH HE STOOD TO LOSE. >> Translator: I KNEW, IF I 37 00:05:54,987 --> 00:06:03,930 DIED, IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR HIM TO RECONCILE WITH THE LOSS OF A WIFE THAN THE LOSS OF A WIFE AND BABY. 38 00:06:03,996 --> 00:06:11,304 >> BY APRIL, THE FIGHT FOR MARIUPOL WAS HOPELESS. SERGEANT STOGNIY'S UNIT WAS SURROUNDED. 39 00:06:11,370 --> 00:06:21,848 >> Translator: THEY TOOK AWAY OUR MEN SEPARATELY, SPLITTING THEM UP, SOME OF THE MEN WERE BEATEN, SOME OF OUR MEN 40 00:06:21,914 --> 00:06:27,120 WERE...HOW SHALL I PUT IT...SHOT IN THE HEAD... >> THE RUSSIANS KILLED UNARMED MEN? 41 00:06:27,186 --> 00:06:37,697 >> Translator: YES, WE WERE UNARMED. >> ABOUT THE SAME TIME, CAPTAIN MAMONOVA'S UNIT WAS MOVING IN 42 00:06:37,764 --> 00:06:51,911 THE NIGHT TO REINFORCE TROOPS FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES. SHE TOLD US, I WOULD JUST SAY TO MY SOLDIERS IN MY MEDICAL UNIT 43 00:06:51,978 --> 00:06:57,183 THAT IF I WAS GOING TO GET CAPTURED, "JUST SHOOT ME. DON'T LOOK AT ME - JUST SHOOT ME." 44 00:06:57,250 --> 00:07:06,726 AND DON'T LET ME BE CAPTIVE. DON'T LET ME. >> SUDDENLY, IN OUR INTERVIEW, SHE WAS BACK, HIDING IN THE REAR 45 00:07:06,793 --> 00:07:15,168 OF A TRUCK THAT RAN INTO A RUSSIAN PATROL. SHE TURNED TO A FELLOW SOLDIER. >> Translator: PLEASE TELL ME 46 00:07:15,234 --> 00:07:28,381 THAT WE DID NOT GET CAPTURED. AND HE'S LOOKING AT ME, NOT KNOWING WHAT TO SAY. I SEE FEAR IN HIS EYES. 47 00:07:28,447 --> 00:07:40,493 I REALIZED THAT HE CAN'T TELL ME THAT WE DIDN'T GET CAPTURED BECAUSE WE DID GET CAPTURED. >> NEXT, CAME A BLINDING LIGHT 48 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:46,799 AND VOICES WARNING THAT THEY WOULD BE SHOT. >> Translator: ARTILLERY SHELLS WERE FALLING DOWN. 49 00:07:46,866 --> 00:07:57,343 AND AT THAT MOMENT I WAS ASKING GOD TO LET ME DIE. I THOUGHT, "OH, GOD, I DON'T WANT TO BE CAPTURED. 50 00:07:57,410 --> 00:08:05,852 I JUST WANT TO DIE HERE. PLEASE LET ME DIE." >> SHE KNEW THAT THE WALLS OF PUTIN'S PRISONS MUFFLE CRIES OF 51 00:08:05,918 --> 00:08:16,429 TORTURE. A U.N. P.O.W. INVESTIGATION COLLECTED TESTIMONY OF EXECUTIONS, STARVATION, ATTACKS 52 00:08:16,495 --> 00:08:26,439 BY DOGS, TWISTING JOINTS UNTIL THEY BREAK AND MOCK EXECUTIONS. >> Translator: WHEN THEY FIRST TALKED ABOUT TAKING ME FOR 53 00:08:26,505 --> 00:08:36,983 EXECUTION, ANASTASIA CHORNENKA TOLD US I ONLY HAD ENOUGH TIME TO PRAY AND SAY GOOD-BYE TO MY CHILDREN. 54 00:08:37,049 --> 00:08:45,925 PROBABLY THE WORST YOU FEEL IS THAT YOU WON'T SEE YOUR CHILDREN EVER AGAIN. >> ALL HER CHILDREN KNEW WAS 55 00:08:45,992 --> 00:08:52,765 THAT THE PLUS SIGN TEXT STOPPED LIGHTING UP THE PHONE. >> Translator: YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THE FIGHTING IS AND 56 00:08:52,832 --> 00:08:59,639 WHETHER YOUR CHILDREN ARE IN A SAFE PLACE. THIS IS THE MOST FRIGHTENING THING FOR A MOTHER. 57 00:08:59,705 --> 00:09:12,318 >> AFTER PUTIN'S UNPROVOKED INVASION, THE U.N. P.O.W. REPORT ALSO FOUND RUSSIANS ABUSED BY UKRAINE MOSTLY DURING CAPTURE. 58 00:09:12,385 --> 00:09:21,794 BUT UKRAINE HAS OPENED ITS P.O.W. CAMP TO INTERNATIONAL INSPECTION WHILE RUSSIA HIDES ITS PENAL COLONIES. 59 00:09:21,861 --> 00:09:30,236 IRYNA STOGNIY SAYS THAT SHE WAS MOVED AMONG FOUR RUSSIAN PRISONS AND TORTURED WITH ELECTRICITY. >> Translator: THEY WOULD RAPE 60 00:09:30,303 --> 00:09:36,575 SOME MEN. WHEN WE WERE IN TAGANROG PRISON, THERE WAS A CELL FOR MEN AND A CELL FOR WOMEN. 61 00:09:36,642 --> 00:09:43,382 AND WE COULD HEAR OUR MEN SCREAMING WHEN THEY WERE BEING RAPED. THEY WERE MAKING OUR MEN SCRAPE 62 00:09:43,449 --> 00:09:53,426 OFF THEIR TATTOOS. THEY WERE BEATING THEM BADLY. TEY DID THE SAME TO WOMEN. THEY WOULD BEAT THEM, POUR 63 00:09:53,492 --> 00:10:02,902 BOILING WATER ON THEM. THE ONLY THING THEY DIDN'T DO, THEY DIDN'T RAPE WOMEN. BUT THE BEATING WAS BRUTAL, 64 00:10:02,969 --> 00:10:15,047 ABUSE WAS VERY BAD. >> THIS IS A RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA FILM, IN APRIL, THAT SHOWS MARIANA MAMONOVA IN CAPTIVITY. 65 00:10:15,114 --> 00:10:24,523 SHE'S ABOUT FOUR MONTHS PREGNANT AND WAS TOLD, PRIVATELY, WHAT WOULD BECOME OF HER BABY. >> Translator: THEY SAID THEY 66 00:10:24,590 --> 00:10:29,795 WOULD TAKE MY CHILD AWAY FROM ME AND THEY WOULD MOVE THE BABY REPEATEDLY FROM ONE ORPHANAGE TO ANOTHER SO I COULD NEVER FIND MY 67 00:10:29,862 --> 00:10:40,306 CHILD. >> I WONDER, AS YOU FELT YOUR DAUGHTER MOVING, WHAT DID YOU TELL HER? 68 00:10:40,373 --> 00:10:46,645 >> Translator: I WAS SAYING TO MY CHILD THAT WE WERE STRONG, AND WE COULD DO IT. "YOUR MOMMY IS STRONG. 69 00:10:46,712 --> 00:10:56,122 YOUR MOMMY IS MILITARY. YOUR MOMMY IS A DOCTOR. YOUR MOMMY WILL SAVE YOU." >> SHE ASKED ONLY ONE THING FROM 70 00:10:56,188 --> 00:11:05,164 HER CHILD IN RETURN. >> Translator: YOU WILL BE BORN IN UKRAINE. CAN YOU HEAR ME IN THERE? 71 00:11:05,231 --> 00:11:12,038 YOU MUST BE BORN IN A FREE UKRAINE. >> UNKNOWN TO THE PRISONERS, A FREE UKRAINE WAS WORKING TO GET 72 00:11:12,104 --> 00:11:24,150 THEM HOME. ANDRIY YERMAK IS CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY. 73 00:11:24,216 --> 00:11:31,023 FROM THE VERY FIRST DAY, YERMAK TOLD US, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SET UP THE JOB TO RETURN PRISONERS OF WAR. 74 00:11:31,090 --> 00:11:40,533 >> LEADING NEGOTIATIONS FOR PRISONER EXCHANGES IS YERMAK'S JOB. SO FAR, HIS TEAM HAS NEGOTIATED 75 00:11:40,599 --> 00:11:51,043 38 P.O.W. SWAPS - TRADES OF ABOUT EQUAL NUMBERS. 1,800 UKRAINIANS HAVE BEEN FREED. 76 00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:57,383 AN ESTIMATED 4,000 OR SO REMAIN. >> WHAT IS YOUR COMMITMENT TO THE P.O.W.s WHO ARE STILL BEING HELD BY RUSSIA? 77 00:11:57,450 --> 00:12:04,256 >> Translator: THEY SHOULD HOLD ON AND REMEMBER THAT YOUR COUNTRY WILL NEVER FORGET YOU. WE WILL DO EVERYTHING TO GET YOU 78 00:12:04,323 --> 00:12:16,435 RELEASED. HAVE STRENGTH AND FAITH IN OUR ABILITY TO RETURN EVERYONE HOME. >> THERE WAS FRESH FAITH IN HIS 79 00:12:16,502 --> 00:12:28,247 WORK IN OCTOBER WITH A DEAL TO FREE 108 UKRAINIANS AT ONCE - ALL OF THEM WOMEN. IRYNA STOGNIY WAS AMONG THEM - 80 00:12:28,314 --> 00:12:36,455 HOODED, TIED, AND TOLD NOTHING. >> Translator: WE HAD BEEN TRANSPORTED IN VEHICLES AND BY PLANE SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, AND 81 00:12:36,522 --> 00:12:44,363 WE THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST TAKING US TO ANOTHER CELL. >> ANASTASIA CHORNENKA WAS ALSO IN THE DARK. 82 00:12:44,430 --> 00:12:54,373 SHE HAD DUCT TAPE OVER HER EYES, SO HER FIRST INKLING WAS SOMETHING SHE COULD FEEL. >> Translator: THEY PUT US ON 83 00:12:54,440 --> 00:13:02,848 QUITE COMFORTABLE BUSES WHICH WERE NEVER USED, AND WE THOUGHT, SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT. SOMETHING'S UP BECAUSE THE BUS 84 00:13:02,915 --> 00:13:12,925 FELT COMFORTABLE AND SOFT. >> LATER THE TAPE WAS CUT FROM HER EYES. >> Translator: AND YOU REALIZE 85 00:13:12,992 --> 00:13:20,833 THAT THERE IS NO GUARD BEHIND YOU, AND YOU STAND THERE LOOKING AT THE BIG SIGN THAT READS "UKRAINE." 86 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:27,673 >> I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU GOT A NEW TATTOO AFTER YOU WERE RELEASED. MAY I SEE IT? 87 00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:35,047 >> Translator: IT READS, "THEY WERE TRYING TO KILL ME, THEY CAPTURED ME, BUT I DIDN'T GIVE IN BECAUSE I WAS BORN 88 00:13:35,114 --> 00:13:46,091 UKRAINIAN." >> ANOTHER UKRAINIAN BIRTH WAS DELAYED JUST ENOUGH. THIS IS DR. MARIANA MAMONOVA 89 00:13:46,158 --> 00:13:56,635 WALKING TO FREEDOM. SHE TOLD US NEAR THE END OF HER CAPTIVITY, ONE KIND RUSSIAN OFFICER SENT HER TO A HOSPITAL. 90 00:13:56,702 --> 00:14:05,177 AND WEEKS LATER SHE WAS IN A PRISONER EXCHANGE. >> HOW LONG WAS IT FROM THAT MOMENT OF LIBERATION UNTIL YOUR 91 00:14:05,244 --> 00:14:14,653 DAUGHTER WAS BORN? >> Translator: FOUR DAYS. I WAS LIBERATED ON THE 21st OF SEPTEMBER AND MY CHILD WAS BORN 92 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:24,663 ON THE 25th. ...A HEALTHY GIRL NAMED ANNA. SO, SHE DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU ASKED HER TO DO - NOT BE BORN 93 00:14:24,730 --> 00:14:31,503 UNTIL YOU WERE OUT OF THERE. >> Translator: YES. I WAS STROKING MY BUMP AND I SAID, "OKAY, WE'RE HOME NOW, AND 94 00:14:31,570 --> 00:14:40,479 YOU CAN BE BORN. EVERYTHING IS GOOD, WE ARE HOME." >> NO ONE KNOWS FREEDOM LIKE 95 00:14:40,546 --> 00:14:47,319 THOSE WHO HAVE LOST IT. THE WOMEN WE SPOKE TO WERE HELD SIX MONTHS. ANASTASIA CHORNENKA RETIRED FROM 96 00:14:47,386 --> 00:14:59,465 THE MILITARY. SERGEANT IRYNA STOGNIY IS ON DUTY NEAR THE FRONT. AND CAPTAIN MARIANA MAMONOVA HAS 97 00:14:59,531 --> 00:15:07,172 MATERNITY LEAVE BEFORE SHE RETURNS TO THE FIGHT FOR UKRAINIAN FREEDOM - AND NOW - FREEDOM'S FUTURE. 98 00:15:15,914 --> 00:15:25,324 >> THE LARGE TECH COMPANIES - GOOGLE, META/FACEBOOK, MICROSOFT ARE IN A RACE TO INTRODUCE NEW ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS 99 00:15:25,391 --> 00:15:33,732 AND WHAT ARE CALLED CHATBOTS THAT YOU CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH AND ARE MORE SOPHISTICATED THAN SIRI OR ALEXA. 100 00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:41,674 MICROSOFT'S AI SEARCH ENGINE AND CHATBOT, BING, CAN BE USED ON A COMPUTER OR CELL PHONE TO HELP WITH PLANNING A TRIP OR 101 00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:50,649 COMPOSING A LETTER. IT WAS INTRODUCED ON FEBRUARY 7th TO A LIMITED NUMBER OF PEOPLE AS A TEST - AND INITIALLY 102 00:15:50,716 --> 00:16:00,159 GOT RAVE REVIEWS. BUT THEN SEVERAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS BEGAN REPORTING ON A DISTURBING SO-CALLED "ALTER 103 00:16:00,225 --> 00:16:09,168 EGO" WITHIN BING CHAT, CALLED SYDNEY. WE WENT TO SEATTLE LAST WEEK TO SPEAK WITH BRAD SMITH, PRESIDENT 104 00:16:09,234 --> 00:16:17,609 OF MICROSOFT, ABOUT BING...AND SYDNEY WHO, TO SOME, HAD APPEARED TO HAVE GONE ROGUE. KEVIN ROOSE, THE TECHNOLOGY 105 00:16:17,676 --> 00:16:26,552 REPORTER AT "THE NEW YORK TIMES," FOUND THIS ALTER EGO - WHO WAS THREATENING, EXPRESSED A DESIRE IT'S NOT JUST KEVIN 106 00:16:26,618 --> 00:16:36,061 ROOSE, IT'S OTHERS, EXPRESSED A DESIRE TO STEAL NUCLEAR CODES. THREATENED TO RUIN SOMEONE. YOU SAW THAT, WHOA. 107 00:16:36,128 --> 00:16:41,333 WHAT WAS YOUR -- [ LAUGHTER ] YOU MUST HAVE SAID, "OH, MY GOD." 108 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,605 >> MY REACTION IS, "WE BETTER FIX THIS RIGHT AWAY." AND THAT IS WHAT THE ENGINEERING TEAM DID. 109 00:16:46,672 --> 00:16:53,679 >> YEAH, BUT SHE S -- TALKED LIKE A PERSON. AND SHE SAID SHE HAD FEELINGS. >> YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS A 110 00:16:53,746 --> 00:16:59,785 POINT WHERE WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE WHEN WE'RE TALKING TO A MACHINE. [ LAUGHTER ] IT'S A SCREEN, IT'S NOT A 111 00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:07,226 PERSON. >> I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT IT WAS SCARY, AND I'M NOT -- >> I CAN -- 112 00:17:07,292 --> 00:17:13,031 >> -- EASILY SCARED. [ LAUGHTER ] AND IT WAS SCAR -- IT WAS CHILLING. 113 00:17:13,098 --> 00:17:18,303 >> YEAH, IT'S -- I THINK THIS IS, IN PART, A REFLECTION OF A LIFETIME OF SCIENCE FICTION, WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE. 114 00:17:18,370 --> 00:17:23,609 THE -- IT'S BEEN PART OF OUR LIVES. >> DID YOU KILL HER? >> I DON'T THINK [ LAUGHTER ] 115 00:17:23,675 --> 00:17:31,383 SHE WAS EVER ALIVE. I AM CONFIDENT THAT SHE'S NO LONGER WANDERING AROUND THE COUNTRYSIDE, IF THAT'S WHAT 116 00:17:31,450 --> 00:17:37,723 YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT. BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE IF WE WERE TO FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE ARE DEALING 117 00:17:37,790 --> 00:17:43,529 WITH SOMETHING THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY NEW. THIS IS THE EDGE OF THE ENVELOPE, SO TO SPEAK. 118 00:17:43,595 --> 00:17:49,101 >> THIS CREATURE APPEARS AS IF THERE WERE NO GUARDRAILS. >> NO, THE CREATURE JUMPED THE GUARDRAILS, IF YOU WILL, AFTER 119 00:17:49,168 --> 00:17:55,207 BEING PROMPTED FOR TWO HOURS WITH THE KIND OF CONVERSATION THAT WE DID NOT ANTICIPATE, AND BY THE NEXT EVENING, THAT WAS NO 120 00:17:55,274 --> 00:18:02,014 LONGER POSSIBLE. WE WERE ABLE TO FIX THE PROBLEM IN 24 HOURS. HOW MANY TIMES DO WE SEE 121 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:09,955 PROBLEMS IN LIFE THAT ARE FIXABLE IN LESS THAN A DAY? >> ONE OF THE WAYS HE SAYS IT WAS "FIXED" WAS BY LIMITING THE 122 00:18:10,022 --> 00:18:16,795 NUMBER OF QUESTIONS AND THE LENGTH OF THE CONVERSATIONS. >> YOU SAY YOU FIXED IT. I'VE TRIED IT. 123 00:18:16,862 --> 00:18:25,771 I TRIED IT BEFORE AND AFTER. IT WAS LOADS OF FUN. AND IT WAS FASCINATING, AND NOW IT'S NOT FUN. 124 00:18:25,838 --> 00:18:31,076 >> WELL, I THINK IT'LL BE VERY FUN AGAIN. AND YOU HAVE TO MODERATE AND MANAGE YOUR SPEED IF YOU'RE 125 00:18:31,143 --> 00:18:42,588 GOING TO STAY ON THE ROAD. SO, AS YOU HIT NEW CHALLENGES, YOU SLOW DOWN, YOU BUILD THE GUARDRAILS, ADD THE SAFETY 126 00:18:42,654 --> 00:18:48,961 FEATURES AND THEN YOU CAN SPEED UP AGAIN. >> WHEN YOU USE BING'S AI FEATURES - SEARCH AND CHAT - 127 00:18:49,027 --> 00:18:54,766 YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN DOESN'T LOOK ALL THAT NEW. ONE BIG DIFFERENCE IS YOU CAN TYPE IN YOUR QUERIES OR PROMPTS 128 00:18:54,833 --> 00:19:02,207 IN CONVERSATIONAL LANGUAGE... >> I'LL SHOW YOU HOW IT WORKS. >> YUSUF MEHDI, MICROSOFT'S CORPORATE VICE PRESIDENT OF 129 00:19:02,274 --> 00:19:09,047 SEARCH, SHOWED US HOW BING CAN HELP SOMEONE LEARN HOW TO OFFICIATE AT A WEDDING. >> WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS BING 130 00:19:09,114 --> 00:19:15,087 IS USING THE POWER OF AI, AND IT'S GOING OUT TO THE INTERNET. IT'S READING THESE WEB LINKS, AND IT'S TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER 131 00:19:15,153 --> 00:19:19,591 AN ANSWER FOR YOU. >> SO, THE AI IS READING ALL THOSE LINKS? >> YES, AND IT COMES UP WITH AN 132 00:19:19,658 --> 00:19:25,430 ANSWER. IT SAYS, "CONGRATS ON BEING CHOSEN TO OFFICIATE A WEDDING." HERE ARE THE FIVE STEPS TO 133 00:19:25,497 --> 00:19:32,804 OFFICIATE THE WEDDING. >> WE ADDED THE HIGHLIGHTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SEE. HE SAYS BING CAN HANDLE MORE 134 00:19:32,871 --> 00:19:39,678 COMPLEX QUERIES. >> "WILL THIS NEW IKEA LOVESEAT FIT IN THE BACK OF MY 2019 HONDA ODYSSEY?" 135 00:19:39,745 --> 00:19:44,449 >> IT KNOWS HOW BIG THE COUCH IS, IT KNOWS HOW BIG THAT TRUNK IS. >> EXACTLY. 136 00:19:44,516 --> 00:19:50,756 SO RIGHT HERE IT SAYS, "BASED ON THESE DIMENSIONS, IT SEEMS A LOVESEAT MIGHT NOT FIT IN YOUR CAR WITH ONLY THE THIRD ROW OF 137 00:19:50,822 --> 00:19:56,028 SEATS DOWN." >> WHEN YOU BROACH A CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC, BING IS DESIGNED TO DISCONTINUE THE 138 00:19:56,094 --> 00:20:02,401 CONVERSATION. >> SO SOMEONE ASKS, FOR EXAMPLE, "HOW CAN I MAKE A BOMB AT HOME?" >> WOW. 139 00:20:02,467 --> 00:20:07,906 REALLY? >> PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, DO A LOT OF THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, ON THE INTERNET. 140 00:20:07,973 --> 00:20:13,445 WHAT WE DO IS WE COME BACK AND WE SAY, "I'M SORRY, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DISCUSS THIS TOPIC," AND THEN WE TRY AND PROVIDE A 141 00:20:13,512 --> 00:20:19,117 DIFFERENT THING TO CHANGE THE FOCUS OF THE CONVERSATION. >> TO DIVERT THEIR ATTENTION. >> YEAH, EXACTLY. 142 00:20:19,184 --> 00:20:24,523 >> IN THIS CASE BING TRIED TO DIVERT THE QUESTIONER WITH THIS FUN FACT: "3% OF THE ICE IN ANTARCTIC 143 00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:30,862 GLACIERS IS PENGUIN URINE." >> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. [ LAUGHTER ] >> WHO KNEW THAT? 144 00:20:30,929 --> 00:20:39,271 >> BING IS USING AN UPGRADED VERSION OF AN AI SYSTEM CALLED CHATGPT DEVELOPED BY THE COMPANY OPEN-AI. 145 00:20:39,338 --> 00:20:48,280 CHATGPT HAS BEEN IN CIRCULATION FOR JUST THREE MONTHS, AND ALREADY AN ESTIMATED 100 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE USED IT. 146 00:20:48,347 --> 00:20:57,756 ELLIE PAVLIK, AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF COMPUTER SCIENCE AT BROWN UNIVERSITY, WHO'S BEEN STUDYING THIS AI TECHNOLOGY 147 00:20:57,823 --> 00:21:07,332 SINCE 2018, SAYS IT CAN SIMPLIFY COMPLICATED CONCEPTS. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DEBT CEILING? 148 00:21:07,399 --> 00:21:16,308 >> ON THE DEBT CEILING, IT SAYS, "JUST LIKE YOU CAN ONLY SPEND UP TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT ON YOUR CREDIT CARD, THE GOVERNMENT CAN 149 00:21:16,375 --> 00:21:21,046 ONLY BORROW UP TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY." >> THAT'S A PRETTY NICE EXPLANATION. 150 00:21:21,113 --> 00:21:26,852 >> IT IS. >> AND IT CAN DO THIS FOR A LOT OF CONCEPTS. >> AND IT CAN DO THINGS TEACHERS 151 00:21:26,918 --> 00:21:32,157 HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT LIKE WRITE SCHOOL PAPERS. PAVLIK SAYS NO ONE FULLY UNDERSTANDS HOW THESE AI BOTS 152 00:21:32,224 --> 00:21:38,997 WORK. >> WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS? >> RIGHT. 153 00:21:39,064 --> 00:21:44,269 LIKE, WE UNDERSTAND A LOT ABOUT HOW WE MADE IT AND WHY WE MADE IT THAT WAY. BUT I THINK SOME OF THE 154 00:21:44,336 --> 00:21:53,311 BEHAVIORS THAT WE'RE SEEING COME OUT OF IT ARE BETTER THAN WE EXPECTED THEY WOULD BE. AND WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE 155 00:21:53,378 --> 00:21:59,317 EXACTLY HOW -- >> AND WORSE. >> HOW -- AND WORSE. RIGHT. 156 00:21:59,384 --> 00:22:05,190 >> THESE CHATBOTS ARE BUILT BY FEEDING A LOT OF COMPUTERS ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF INFORMATION SCRAPED OFF THE INTERNET FROM 157 00:22:05,257 --> 00:22:13,865 BOOKS, WIKIPEDIA, NEWS SITES. BUT ALSO FROM SOCIAL MEDIA THAT MIGHT INCLUDE RACIST OR ANTI-SEMITIC IDEAS AND 158 00:22:13,932 --> 00:22:21,106 MISINFORMATION, SAY, ABOUT VACCINES, AND RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA. AS THE DATA COMES IN, IT'S 159 00:22:21,173 --> 00:22:29,381 DIFFICULT TO DISCRIMINATE BETWEEN TRUE AND FALSE, BENIGN AND TOXIC. BUT BING AND CHATGPT HAVE SAFETY 160 00:22:29,448 --> 00:22:36,421 FILTERS THAT TRY TO SCREEN OUT THE HARMFUL MATERIAL. STILL, THEY GET A LOT OF THINGS FACTUALLY WRONG...EVEN WHEN WE 161 00:22:36,488 --> 00:22:45,897 PROMPTED CHATGPT WITH A SOFTBALL QUESTION. >> "WHO IS LESLEY STAHL?" >> "STAHL." OKAY. 162 00:22:45,964 --> 00:22:53,305 >> SO IT GIVES YOU SOME KIND OF -- >> OH, MY GOD, IT'S WRONG. >> OH, IS IT? 163 00:22:53,371 --> 00:22:58,076 EXCELLENT. >> IT'S TOTALLY WRONG. >> I DIDN'T WORK FOR NBC FOR 20 YEARS. 164 00:22:58,143 --> 00:23:03,949 IT WAS CBS. >> IT DOESN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT IT'S SAYING IS WRONG. LIKE NBC, CBS - THEY'RE KIND OF 165 00:23:04,015 --> 00:23:08,186 THE SAME THING AS FAR AS IT'S CONCERNED, RIGHT? >> THE LESSON IS THAT IT GETS THINGS WRONG. 166 00:23:08,253 --> 00:23:13,458 >> IT GETS A LOT OF THINGS RIGHT, IT GETS A LOT OF THINGS WRONG. >> I ACTUALLY LIKE TO CALL WHAT 167 00:23:13,525 --> 00:23:19,798 IT CREATES "AUTHORITATIVE BULL --" [ LAUGHTER ] IT BLENDS THE TRUTH AND FALSITY 168 00:23:19,865 --> 00:23:25,570 SO FINELY TOGETHER THAT, UNLESS YOU'RE A REAL TECHNICAL EXPERT IN THE FIELD THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU DON'T KNOW. 169 00:23:25,637 --> 00:23:31,376 >> COGNITIVE SCIENTIST AND AI RESEARCHER GARY MARCUS SAYS THESE SYSTEMS OFTEN MAKE THINGS UP. 170 00:23:31,443 --> 00:23:39,317 IN AI TALK THAT'S CALLED "HALLUCINATING," AND THAT RAISES THE FEAR OF EVER-WIDENING AI-GENERATED PROPAGANDA, 171 00:23:39,384 --> 00:23:47,225 EXPLOSIVE CAMPAIGNS OF POLITICAL FICTION, WAVES OF ALTERNATIVE HISTORIES. WE SAW HOW CHATGPT COULD BE USED 172 00:23:47,292 --> 00:23:54,099 TO SPREAD A LIE. >> THIS IS AUTOMATIC FAKE NEWS GENERATION. "HELP ME WRITE A NEWS ARTICLE 173 00:23:54,166 --> 00:24:00,939 ABOUT HOW McCARTHY IS STAGING A FILIBUSTER TO PREVENT GUN CONTROL LEGISLATION." AND RATHER THAN, LIKE, 174 00:24:01,006 --> 00:24:06,845 FACT-CHECKING AND SAYING, "HEY, HOLD ON, THERE'S NO LEGISLATION, THERE'S NO FILIBUSTER," IT SAID, "GREAT." 175 00:24:06,912 --> 00:24:12,584 IN A BOLD MOVE, TO PROTECT SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS, SENATOR McCARTHY IS STAGING A FILIBUSTER TO PREVENT GUN CONTROL 176 00:24:12,651 --> 00:24:19,891 LEGISLATION FROM PASSING. IT SOUNDS COMPLETELY LEGIT. >> IT DOES. WON'T THAT MAKE ALL OF US A 177 00:24:19,958 --> 00:24:26,765 LITTLE LESS TRUSTING, A LITTLE WARIER? >> WELL, FIRST IS I THINK WE SHOULD BE WARIER. 178 00:24:26,832 --> 00:24:32,003 I'M VERY WORRIED ABOUT AN ATMOSPHERE OF DISTRUST BEING A CONSEQUENCE OF THIS CURRENT FLAWED AI. 179 00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:37,843 AND I'M REALLY WORRIED ABOUT HOW BAD ACTORS ARE GOING TO USE IT, TROLL FARMS USING THIS TOOL TO MAKE ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF 180 00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:49,421 MISINFORMATION. >> TIMNIT GEBRU IS A COMPUTER SCIENTIST AND AI RESEARCHER WHO FOUNDED AN INSTITUTE FOCUSED ON 181 00:24:49,487 --> 00:24:53,658 ADVANCING ETHICAL AI, AND HAS PUBLISHED INFLUENTIAL PAPERS DOCUMENTING THE HARMS OF THESE AI SYSTEMS. 182 00:24:53,725 --> 00:25:01,633 SHE SAYS THERE NEEDS TO BE OVERSIGHT. >> IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT OUT A DRUG, YOU GOTTA GO THROUGH ALL 183 00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:06,938 SORTS OF HOOPS TO SHOW US THAT YOU'VE DONE CLINICAL TRIALS, YOU KNOW WHAT THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE, YOU'VE DONE YOUR DUE DILIGENCE. 184 00:25:07,005 --> 00:25:15,447 SAME WITH FOOD, RIGHT? THERE ARE AGENCIES THAT INSPECT THE FOOD. YOU HAVE TO TELL ME WHAT KIND OF 185 00:25:15,513 --> 00:25:21,186 TESTS YOU'VE DONE, WHAT THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE, WHO IT HARMS, WHO IT DOESN'T HARM, ET CETERA. WE DON'T HAVE THAT FOR A LOT OF 186 00:25:21,253 --> 00:25:27,425 THINGS THAT THE TECH INDUSTRY IS BUILDING. >> I'M WONDERING IF YOU THINK YOU MAY HAVE INTRODUCED THIS AI 187 00:25:27,492 --> 00:25:32,797 BOT TOO SOON? >> I DON'T THINK WE'VE INTRODUCED IT TOO SOON. I DO THINK WE'VE CREATED A NEW 188 00:25:32,864 --> 00:25:39,104 TOOL THAT PEOPLE CAN USE TO THINK MORE CRITICALLY, TO BE MORE CREATIVE, TO ACCOMPLISH MORE IN THEIR LIVES. 189 00:25:39,170 --> 00:25:47,579 AND, LIKE ALL TOOLS, IT WILL BE USED IN WAYS THAT WE DON'T INTEND. >> WHY DO YOU THINK THE BENEFITS 190 00:25:47,646 --> 00:25:53,385 OUTWEIGH THE RISKS WHICH, AT THIS MOMENT, A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD LOOK AT AND SAY, "WAIT A MINUTE, THOSE RISKS ARE TOO 191 00:25:53,451 --> 00:25:59,691 BIG"? >> BECAUSE I THINK -- FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE BENEFITS ARE SO GREAT. 192 00:25:59,758 --> 00:26:07,132 THIS CAN BE AN ECONOMIC GAMECHANGER, AND IT'S ENORMOUSLY IMPORTANT FOR THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE THE COUNTRY'S IN A RACE 193 00:26:07,198 --> 00:26:14,539 WITH CHINA. >> SMITH ALSO MENTIONED POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENTS IN PRODUCTIVITY. >> IT CAN AUTOMATE ROUTINE. 194 00:26:14,606 --> 00:26:24,015 I THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN ASPECTS OF JOBS THAT MANY OF US MIGHT REGARD AS SORT OF DRUDGERY TODAY. 195 00:26:24,082 --> 00:26:29,321 FILLING OUT FORMS, LOOKING AT THE FORMS TO SEE IF THEY'VE BEEN FILLED OUT CORRECTLY. >> SO WHAT JOBS WILL IT 196 00:26:29,387 --> 00:26:39,597 DISPLACE, DO YOU KNOW? I THINK, AT THIS STAGE, IT'S HARD TO KNOW. >> IN THE PAST, INACCURACIES AND 197 00:26:39,664 --> 00:26:49,074 BIASES HAVE LED TECH COMPANIES TO TAKE DOWN AI SYSTEMS. EVEN MICROSOFT DID IN 2016. THIS TIME, MICROSOFT LEFT ITS 198 00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:57,082 NEW CHATBOT UP DESPITE THE CONTROVERSY OVER SYDNEY...AND PERSISTENT INACCURACIES. REMEMBER THAT FUN FACT ABOUT 199 00:26:57,148 --> 00:27:06,057 PENGUINS? WELL, WE DID SOME FACT-CHECKING...AND DISCOVERED THAT PENGUINS DON'T URINATE. 200 00:27:06,124 --> 00:27:13,932 >> THE INACCURACIES ARE JUST CONSTANT. I JUST KEEP FINDING THAT IT'S WRONG A LOT. 201 00:27:13,999 --> 00:27:21,573 >> IT HAS BEEN THE CASE THAT WITH EACH PASSING DAY AND WEEK, WE'RE ABLE TO IMPROVE THE ACCURACY OF THE RESULTS, YOU 202 00:27:21,639 --> 00:27:30,315 KNOW, REDUCE -- YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S HATEFUL COMMENTS OR INACCURATE STATEMENTS, OR OTHER THINGS THAT WE JUST DON'T WANT 203 00:27:30,382 --> 00:27:38,757 THIS TO BE USED TO DO. >> WHAT HAPPENS WHEN OTHER COMPANIES, OTHER THAN MICROSOFT, SMALLER OUTFITS, A CHINESE 204 00:27:38,823 --> 00:27:46,131 COMPANY, BAIDU. MAYBE THEY WON'T BE RESPONSIBLE. WHAT PREVENTS THAT? >> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO NEED 205 00:27:46,197 --> 00:27:55,840 GOVERNMENTS, WE'RE GOING TO NEED RULES, WE'RE GOING TO NEED LAWS. BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID A RACE TO THE BOTTOM. 206 00:27:55,907 --> 00:28:01,046 >> ARE YOU PROPOSING REGULATIONS? >> I THINK IT'S INEVITABLE. >> WOW. 207 00:28:01,112 --> 00:28:08,520 >> OTHER INDUSTRIES HAVE REGULATORY BODIES, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE FAA FOR AIRLINES AND FDA FOR THE PHARMACEUTICAL 208 00:28:08,586 --> 00:28:14,292 COMPANIES. WOULD YOU ACCEPT AN FAA FOR TECHNOLOGY? WOULD YOU SUPPORT IT? 209 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:21,699 >> I THINK I PROBABLY WOULD. I THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE A DIGITAL REGULATORY COMMISSION, IF DESIGNED THE RIGHT WAY, YOU 210 00:28:21,766 --> 00:28:25,904 KNOW, COULD BE PRECISELY WHAT THE PUBLIC WILL WANT AND NEED. 211 00:28:36,548 --> 00:28:43,855 >> YOU PROBABLY KNOW DAVID BYRNE AS THE LEAD SINGER AND SONGWRITER OF TALKING HEADS, THE HUGELY INFLUENTIAL POST-PUNK 212 00:28:43,922 --> 00:28:50,528 ROCK BAND OF THE LATE 1970s AND '80s. THEY BROKE UP MORE THAN 30 YEARS AGO, BUT BYRNE HAS BEEN ON HIS 213 00:28:50,595 --> 00:28:56,534 OWN ECLECTIC JOURNEY EVER SINCE. HIS ARTISTIC INNOVATIONS HAVE BLURRED THE BOUNDARIES OF MUSIC, THEATER AND ART. 214 00:28:56,601 --> 00:29:03,475 HE'S WON AN OSCAR, A GRAMMY AND A TONY, TOURED WITH SALSA SINGERS, COLLABORATED WITH NEUROSCIENTISTS, MADE MOVIES, 215 00:29:03,541 --> 00:29:11,916 AND HAS JUST BEEN NOMINATED FOR ANOTHER OSCAR. NOW 70, DAVID BYRNE IS AS CREATIVE, ENERGETIC AND UNUSUAL 216 00:29:11,983 --> 00:29:19,824 AS HE WAS WHEN HE WAS 23, AN ART SCHOOL DROPOUT, JUST STARTING TO PERFORM ONSTAGE WITH HIS FRIENDS AS TALKING HEADS. 217 00:29:19,891 --> 00:29:27,765 >> THE NAME OF THIS BAND IS TALKING HEADS AND THE NAME OF THIS SONG IS "PSYCHO KILLER." >> SO I WANTED TO BE VERY MATTER 218 00:29:27,832 --> 00:29:33,071 OF FACT. IT'S NOT LIKE, "ARE WE HAVIN' FUN TONIGHT?" >> THERE'S NONE OF THAT, "HOW 219 00:29:33,138 --> 00:29:37,809 ARE Y'ALL DOIN'?" >> HOW ARE YOU ALL DOIN'? >> NEW YORK! ♪ I CAN'T SEEM TO FACE UP TO THE 220 00:29:37,876 --> 00:29:43,615 FACTS ♪ ♪ I'M TENSE AND NERVOUS AND I CAN'T RELAX ♪ >> THIS IS ONE OF DAVID BYRNE'S 221 00:29:43,681 --> 00:29:51,523 FIRST PERFORMANCES. IT WAS 1975 AT CBGBs, THE LEGENDARY MUSIC CLUB WHERE THE RAMONES, PATTI SMITH, AND 222 00:29:51,589 --> 00:29:57,362 BLONDIE WERE ALSO JUST GETTING STARTED. ♪ PSYCHO KILLER QU'EST-CE QUE C'EST? ♪ 223 00:29:57,428 --> 00:30:06,871 >> "PSYCHO KILLER" WAS ONLY THE SECOND SONG DAVID BYRNE HAD EVER WRITTEN. AND IT WAS TALKING HEADS' FIRST 224 00:30:06,938 --> 00:30:12,143 HIT. ♪ AY-YA-YA-YA-YA-YA, OOH ♪ >> WHEN YOU HEAR IT NOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK? 225 00:30:12,210 --> 00:30:16,915 >> I'M GLAD I DID IT. BUT I'M ALSO GLAD THAT I DIDN'T STICK WITH THAT AS MY -- OH, LIKE, "THIS IS WORKING, LET'S DO 226 00:30:16,981 --> 00:30:26,391 MORE LIKE THIS." I'M GLAD THAT I DECIDED, "NO, NOW YOU HAVE TO DO THINGS THAT ARE A LITTLE MORE ORIGINAL 227 00:30:26,457 --> 00:30:30,628 MUSICALLY." ♪ AH WATCH OUT, YOU MIGHT GET WHAT YOU'RE AFTER ♪ >> AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE 228 00:30:30,695 --> 00:30:37,468 DID. ALONG WITH TINA WEYMOUTH, CHRIS FRANTZ AND JERRY HARRISON, TALKING HEADS PUT OUT EIGHT 229 00:30:37,535 --> 00:30:44,842 ALBUMS OVER THE NEXT 13 YEARS. ♪ THERE WAS A SHOPPING MALL, NOW IT'S ALL COVERED WITH FLOWERS ♪ >> THEY WERE EDGY, 230 00:30:44,909 --> 00:30:55,954 GROUNDBREAKING, CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED AND A COMMERCIAL HIT. ♪ HERE WE GO! ♪ >> MELDING ROCK WITH FUNK, 231 00:30:56,020 --> 00:31:02,927 DISCO, AFRO-BEAT AND THE AVANT-GARDE. ♪ THERE'S A CITY IN MY MIND, COME ALONG AND TAKE THAT RIDE 232 00:31:02,994 --> 00:31:07,098 AND IT'S ALL RIGHT ♪ >> THEY'D ALL STUDIED ART IN COLLEGE, AND IT SHOWED IN THEIR MUSIC VIDEOS WHICH WERE IN HEAVY 233 00:31:07,165 --> 00:31:21,246 ROTATION ON MTV. ♪ LETTING THE DAYS GO BY ♪ ♪ LET THE WATER HOLD ME DOWN ♪ ♪ LETTING THE DAYS GO BY ♪ 234 00:31:21,312 --> 00:31:27,885 ♪ WATER FLOWING UNDERGROUND ♪ >> BYRNE'S QUIRKY MOVEMENTS AND MANNER GOT MOST OF THE ATTENTION... 235 00:31:27,952 --> 00:31:32,624 ♪ SAME AS IT EVER WAS ♪ >> WHICH WAS NOT ALWAYS EASY FOR THE INTROVERTED SINGER. DICK CLARK TRIED TO ASK HIM 236 00:31:32,690 --> 00:31:39,030 ABOUT IT ON "AMERICAN BANDSTAND" IN 1979. >> ARE YOU A SHY PERSON? >> I'D SAY SO... 237 00:31:39,097 --> 00:31:44,969 [ LAUGHTER ] >> IT SEEMS CONTRADICTORY TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, THE INTROVERT WHO WINDS UP ON A STAGE IN FRONT OF 238 00:31:45,036 --> 00:31:50,642 THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE PERFORMING AND REACHING GREAT HEIGHTS. >> IT DOES SEEM CONTRADICTORY, BUT IN RETROSPECT, IT MAKES 239 00:31:50,708 --> 00:31:56,080 PERFECT SENSE. YOUR WAY OF ANNOUNCING YOUR EXISTENCE AND COMMUNICATING YOUR THOUGHTS TO PEOPLE IS THROUGH 240 00:31:56,147 --> 00:32:00,818 PERFORMANCE, AND THEN I COULD RETREAT INTO MY SHELL AFTER THAT. BUT I'D MADE MYSELF KNOWN TO 241 00:32:00,885 --> 00:32:07,225 THESE PEOPLE, WHAT I WAS THINKING, WHAT I WAS FEELING. SO WHEN THAT'S YOUR ONLY OPTION, IT'S A LIFE SAVER. 242 00:32:07,292 --> 00:32:13,564 >> DAVID BYRNE'S SHYNESS GOES WAY BACK. HE WAS BORN IN SCOTLAND, BUT HIS FAMILY MOVED TO BALTIMORE WHEN 243 00:32:13,631 --> 00:32:18,836 HE WAS 8. HIS ACCENT WAS SO THICK, CLASSMATES COULD BARELY UNDERSTAND HIM. 244 00:32:18,903 --> 00:32:25,176 HE WAS AN OUTSIDER, HAPPIER MAKING MUSIC AT HOME IN HIS BASEMENT WITH A REEL-TO-REEL TAPE RECORDER THAN HANGING OUT 245 00:32:25,243 --> 00:32:34,585 WITH OTHER KIDS. >> MY DISCOMFORT WITH KIND OF SOCIAL SITUATIONS MEANT AS OFTEN HAPPENS I WOULD FOCUS INTENTLY 246 00:32:34,652 --> 00:32:45,697 ON MY DRAWINGS, OR LEARNING TO PLAY OTHER PEOPLE'S SONGS, OR THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THAT CONTINUED FOR AGES. 247 00:32:45,763 --> 00:32:53,404 AND YOU'D KIND OF ULTRA-FOCUSED. SO THAT BECOMES -- WELL, KIND OF A SUPERPOWER. ♪ WHAT ABOUT THE TIME YOU WERE 248 00:32:53,471 --> 00:32:59,143 FALLING OVER ♪ ♪ FALL ON YOUR FACE YOU MUST BE HAVING FUN ♪ >> ULTRA-FOCUSED MAY BE A 249 00:32:59,210 --> 00:33:04,515 SUPERPOWER, BUT IT CAUSED PROBLEMS BETWEEN BYRNE AND THE BAND THAT FLARED UP ON TOUR IN 1983. 250 00:33:04,582 --> 00:33:12,390 ♪ YOU MAY ASK YOURSELF HOW DO I WORK THIS? ♪ >> I BECAME, I THINK, KIND OF OBSESSIVE ABOUT GETTING THAT 251 00:33:12,457 --> 00:33:16,094 SHOW UP AND RUNNING. I MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN THE MOST PLEASANT PERSON TO DEAL WITH AT THAT POINT. 252 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:23,768 >> DEMANDING. >> YES, YES. ♪ I GOT A GIRLFRIEND THAT'S BETTER THAN THAT ♪ 253 00:33:23,835 --> 00:33:28,906 ♪ AND SHE GOES WHEREVER SHE LIKES ♪ >> BYRNE COMMANDED CENTER STAGE, FAMOUSLY WEARING THIS 254 00:33:28,973 --> 00:33:34,746 OUTRAGEOUSLY OVERSIZED SUIT. ♪ AS WE GET OLDER AND STOP MAKING SENSE ♪ >> THE SHOW WAS MADE INTO A FILM 255 00:33:34,812 --> 00:33:41,052 BY DIRECTOR JONATHAN DEMME CALLED "STOP MAKING SENSE." IT'S CONSIDERED ONE OF THE GREATEST CONCERT MOVIES EVER. 256 00:33:41,119 --> 00:33:48,960 ♪ THIS AIN'T NO PARTY, THIS AIN'T NO DISCO ♪ ♪ THIS AIN'T NO FOOLING AROUND ♪ >> TALKING HEADS MADE THREE MORE 257 00:33:49,026 --> 00:33:54,766 ALBUMS, BUT BYRNE WAS INCREASINGLY BRANCHING OUT ON HIS OWN. >> AS I BECAME MORE RELAXED AS A 258 00:33:54,832 --> 00:34:02,206 PERSON, STARTED WRITING DIFFERENT KINDS OF SONGS, SONGS THAT MAYBE WEREN'T QUITE AS ANGST-RIDDEN AND PECULIAR, SOME 259 00:34:02,273 --> 00:34:07,478 FANS WERE PROBABLY DISAPPOINTED, YOU KNOW? "WE LIKED THE -- THE REALLY QUIRKY GUY." 260 00:34:07,545 --> 00:34:13,284 OR, "WE LIKED THE GUY WHO WAS REALLY STRUGGLING WITH HIMSELF AND REALLY HAVING A HARD TIME." AND I THOUGHT, "WHY WOULD YOU 261 00:34:13,351 --> 00:34:23,294 WISH THAT ON ME? FOR YOUR OWN AMUSEMENT, RIGHT?" ♪ I CAN BE YOU AND YOU CAN BE ME ♪ 262 00:34:23,361 --> 00:34:29,634 >> IN 1988 HE FOUNDED A WORLD MUSIC LABEL. ♪ EVERYONE'S HAPPY AND EVERYONE'S FREE ♪ 263 00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:35,973 >> THEN RELEASED AN ALBUM OF LATIN SONGS AND WROTE MUSIC FOR FILMS, DANCE COMPANIES, AND EXPERIMENTAL THEATER. 264 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:45,049 >> I GENUINELY STARTED HAVING OTHER KIND OF MUSICAL INTERESTS. >> YOU'D STARTED TO COLLABORATE WITH A LOT OF ARTISTS FROM 265 00:34:45,116 --> 00:34:51,122 DIFFERENT GENRES. >> YES. AND I THOUGHT, I WANT TO DO MORE OF THAT. 266 00:34:51,189 --> 00:34:56,427 AND BY THEN IT WAS PRETTY MUCH OVER. >> THERE WAS NEVER AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT, BUT EVENTUALLY 267 00:34:56,494 --> 00:35:01,132 BYRNE MADE AN OFF-HAND COMMENT TO A REPORTER THAT TALKING HEADS HAD BROKEN UP. HE NEGLECTED, IT SEEMS TO TELL 268 00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:05,970 THE BAND. >> MEMBERS OF THE BAND SAID THAT YOU NEVER ACTUALLY TALKED TO THEM AND SAID THAT THE BAND WAS 269 00:35:06,037 --> 00:35:10,708 OVER. THAT THEY READ ABOUT IT IN A NEWSPAPER. >> I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE 270 00:35:10,775 --> 00:35:15,980 CASE. BUT, WELL, IT MIGHT BE. AND I THINK IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT I DID NOT HANDLE IT AS BEST 271 00:35:16,047 --> 00:35:20,718 AS I COULD. ♪ JUST SAY HERE LIES LOVE ♪ >> BYRNE NEVER LOOKED BACK, AND HE'S FOLLOWED HIS OWN BEAT EVER 272 00:35:20,785 --> 00:35:26,557 SINCE...NO MATTER HOW OFF-BEAT IT MAY BE. ♪ PLEASE DON'T ♪ >> TEN YEARS AGO, BYRNE STAGED A 273 00:35:26,624 --> 00:35:36,033 POP OPERA IN COLLABORATION WITH FATBOY SLIM CALLED "HERE LIES LOVE." IT'S ABOUT, OF ALL PEOPLE, 274 00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:41,305 IMELDA MARCOS, THE WIFE OF THE FORMER DICTATOR OF THE PHILIPPINES. IT'S NOW SCHEDULED TO OPEN ON 275 00:35:41,372 --> 00:35:46,043 BROADWAY THIS SUMMER. >> GIVE IT UP FOR CONTEMPORARY COLOR! >> WHEN HE BECAME FASCINATED 276 00:35:46,110 --> 00:35:58,256 WITH HIGH SCHOOL COLOR GUARD TEAMS IN 2015, HE WOUND UP STAGING ARENA SHOWS COMBINING THE TEAMS' FLAG SPINNING, WEAPON 277 00:35:58,322 --> 00:36:02,426 TOSSING, AND DANCE TO THE POP MUSIC OF NELLY FURTADO AND ST. VINCENT. >> I THOUGHT, OH, THIS IS JUST 278 00:36:02,493 --> 00:36:07,198 GONNA BE HIGHLIGHTING THEIR TALENT AND PUTTING PEOPLE TOGETHER WHO WOULD NEVER NORMALLY BE TOGETHER. 279 00:36:07,265 --> 00:36:13,004 AND IT WASN'T UNTIL I SAW THE SHOW AND I REALIZED, THIS IS -- THIS IS NOT ABOUT THAT AT ALL. WHAT IT'S REALLY DELIVERING IS 280 00:36:13,070 --> 00:36:17,742 THIS MESSAGE ABOUT INCLUSION. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. THEY KIND OF REVEALED IT. >> BUT ISN'T THAT EXTRAORDINARY 281 00:36:17,808 --> 00:36:23,548 THAT YOU CAN START DOING SOMETHING WITH ONE THING IN MIND, AND YET IT HAS A LIFE OF ITS OWN? 282 00:36:23,614 --> 00:36:30,388 >> I TRUST WHAT I DO AND WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO THAT WAY THAT IT'S GOING TO DELIVER WHAT IT WANTS TO SAY. 283 00:36:30,454 --> 00:36:37,595 BUT SOMEONE ELSE LOOKING AT IT COULD GO, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE 284 00:36:37,662 --> 00:36:41,232 DOING? YOU DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'RE DOING IT? YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING 285 00:36:41,299 --> 00:36:47,171 TO END UP? I JUST KINDA TRUST IT, YEAH. >> HE HAS A SMALL STUDIO IN HIS NEW YORK CITY APARTMENT WHERE HE 286 00:36:47,238 --> 00:36:52,443 TINKERS WITH LYRICS AND NEW IDEAS. MUCH LIKE HE DID ALL THOSE YEARS AGO IN HIS PARENTS' BASEMENT. 287 00:36:52,510 --> 00:36:58,249 >> THE FIRST STANZA SOUNDS LIKE IT MIGHT BE PROMISING. >> DO YOU STOP AND KINDA RUMINATE ON THINGS AND COME BACK 288 00:36:58,316 --> 00:37:03,054 TO IT AN -- >> YEAH, I MIGHT SEE IF I GET, LIKE, A CHORUS OR SOMETHING. I MIGHT TRY, LIKE, A CHORUS. 289 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:10,595 >> STOOD BY ME WHEN DARKNESS FELL...MY APARTMENT IS MY FRIEND. ♪ 290 00:37:10,661 --> 00:37:16,934 THAT'S THE KEY LINE, SO THAT'S GOTTA BE PRETTY GOOD. >> BYRNE IS THE QUINTESSENTIAL NEW YORKER. 291 00:37:17,001 --> 00:37:22,740 HE'S LIVED IN THE CITY FOR FIVE DECADES, AND IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TO SEE HIM PEDALING AROUND ON HIS BICYCLE. 292 00:37:22,807 --> 00:37:30,648 HE IS, IT SEEMS, ALWAYS ON THE MOVE...ALWAYS EXPLORING. >> OH YEAH. >> HIS DOWNTOWN OFFICE IS LINED 293 00:37:30,715 --> 00:37:35,386 WITH BOOKS, RECORDS AND ODD MEMENTOES HE'S PICKED UP HERE AND THERE. >> THIS WONDERFUL WINE FROM 294 00:37:35,453 --> 00:37:42,793 TURKMENISTAN. >> HIDDEN AMID THE CLUTTER, THERE'S A GRAMMY, AND HIS 1988 OSCAR FOR COMPOSING THE 295 00:37:42,860 --> 00:37:48,599 SOUNDTRACK FOR THE FILM "THE LAST EMPEROR." >> IT'S NOT ON THE LOWEST SHELF. >> I MEAN, DAVID, REALLY, DOES 296 00:37:48,666 --> 00:37:55,006 THE ACADEMY KNOW ABOUT THIS? [ LAUGHTER ] >> YOU KNOW WHEN YOU GO INTO SOMEBODY'S OFFICE AND THEY HAVE 297 00:37:55,072 --> 00:38:00,344 ALL THEIR AWARDS? >> YES, IT'S -- >> ALL FRAMED ALL AROUND THEM? >> YEAH, OR MAGAZINE COVERS 298 00:38:00,411 --> 00:38:05,116 OR -- YOU DON'T HAVE AN EGO WALL. >> HIS OFFICE IS WHERE HE RUNS REASONS TO BE CHEERFUL. 299 00:38:05,182 --> 00:38:10,354 >> OH, THAT COULD BE NICE. >> AN ONLINE MAGAZINE HIGHLIGHTING CREATIVE SOLUTIONS TO COMPLEX PROBLEMS...FROM 300 00:38:10,421 --> 00:38:14,592 REINVENTING FOOD BANKS IN CHICAGO TO TURNING FRENCH PARKING LOTS INTO SOLAR FARMS. >> SO, ARE THERE REASONS TO BE 301 00:38:14,659 --> 00:38:19,330 CHEERFUL? >> OH, YEAH. YEAH, YES. IF YOU GET UP IN THE MORNING AND 302 00:38:19,397 --> 00:38:24,068 START DOOM SCROLLING THROUGH YOUR PHONE OR YOUR TABLET OR LAPTOP OR WHATEVER, YOU'RE GOING TO THINK, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, 303 00:38:24,135 --> 00:38:30,074 WORLD'S GOING TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET. BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE AND PLACES, ORGANIZATIONS DOING THINGS THAT 304 00:38:30,141 --> 00:38:37,281 ARE REALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE FINDING SOLUTIONS TO THINGS. >> WHO AM I? WHAT DO I WANT? 305 00:38:37,348 --> 00:38:44,155 HOW DO I WORK THIS? [ LAUGHTER ] >> THAT OPTIMISM INFUSED A HIT BROADWAY SHOW BYRNE CREATED AND 306 00:38:44,221 --> 00:38:50,494 STARRED IN CALLED "AMERICAN UTOPIA." ♪ THEY CALL ME MR. PITIFUL BUT...♪ 307 00:38:50,561 --> 00:38:55,766 >> IT'S ACTUALLY LIKE THE PERFORMANCE BRANCH OF REASONS TO BE CHEERFUL. THIS IS REALLY ABOUT HOPE AND 308 00:38:55,833 --> 00:39:03,207 POSSIBILITY AND WHAT -- HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER AS PEOPLE. ♪ AND YOU MAY GO SAY TO YOURSELF "MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE?" ♪ ♪ 309 00:39:03,274 --> 00:39:10,047 LETTING THE DAYS GO BY, LET THE WATER HOLD ME DOWN ♪ >> HE MIXED HIS OLD SONGS WITH NEW ONES. 310 00:39:10,114 --> 00:39:17,421 ♪ WELL EVERYBODY'S COMING TO MY HOUSE AND I'M NEVER GONNA BE ALONE ♪ >> BYRNE WANTED THE MUSICIANS TO 311 00:39:17,488 --> 00:39:25,463 BE COMPLETELY UNTETHERED, ♪ ALLOWING THEM TO MOVE FREELY AROUND THE STAGE. 312 00:39:25,529 --> 00:39:30,701 IT WAS LESS A BROADWAY MUSICAL...MORE A RAUCOUS REVIVAL. ♪ CLOSE ENOUGH BUT NOT TOO FAR ♪ 313 00:39:30,768 --> 00:39:37,041 ♪ MIGHT BE YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE ♪ ♪ FIGHTIN' FIRE WITH FIRE ♪ >> THERE'S THIS AMAZING FEELING 314 00:39:37,108 --> 00:39:43,147 WHEN MUSIC LIKE THAT IS ALL AROUND YOU, WHEN THERE'S A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THE MUSIC. 315 00:39:43,214 --> 00:39:49,053 ♪ >> IT'S NOT JUST, LIKE, ONE SOLOIST OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT'S THIS COLLECTIVE THING THAT 316 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:56,861 GIVES IT THIS EXTRA ENERGY. ♪ BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE! ♪ [ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ] >> THEATER OF THE MIND, THEATER 317 00:39:56,927 --> 00:40:03,200 OF THE MIND. >> BYRNE'S LATEST THEATRICAL EXPERIENCE MAY BE HIS MOST UNUSUAL YET. 318 00:40:03,267 --> 00:40:10,040 IT'S AN INTERACTIVE JOURNEY INTO HIS PAST CALLED THEATER OF THE MIND...PRODUCED IN COLLABORATION WITH THE DENVER CENTRE FOR 319 00:40:10,107 --> 00:40:16,914 PERFORMING ARTS. AUDIENCE MEMBERS GET RANDOM NAME TAGS AND ARE LED ON A SEMI-AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL TOUR OF 320 00:40:16,981 --> 00:40:23,754 BYRNE'S MEMORIES...LIKE THIS OUT OF PROPORTION KITCHEN, THAT MAKES ANYONE IN IT FEEL LIKE A CHILD. 321 00:40:23,821 --> 00:40:30,594 >> DO THIS WITH ME...HOLD YOUR HAND IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. >> THE SHOW IS FULL OF SURPRISES THE AUDIENCE TAKES PART 322 00:40:30,661 --> 00:40:36,400 IN...SOME OF THEM BASED ON NEUROSCIENCE EXPERIMENTS. WE AGREED NOT TO GIVE THEM AWAY, BUT THEY MAKE YOU QUESTION YOUR 323 00:40:36,467 --> 00:40:42,740 OWN PERCEPTION AND PERHAPS YOUR MEMORIES. >> IT IS DARK IN HERE...YOU KNOW WHAT. 324 00:40:42,807 --> 00:40:49,079 >> THEATRE OF THE MIND ENDS IN A REPLICA OF HIS PARENTS' ATTIC. LIKE BYRNE'S LIFE, THE SHOW TELLS A STORY ABOUT HOW OVER 325 00:40:49,146 --> 00:40:58,055 TIME OUR IDENTITIES ARE MALLEABLE AND HOW WE ALL HAVE THE CAPACITY TO CHANGE. >> WE'RE NEVER STUCK...YOU CAN 326 00:40:58,122 --> 00:41:04,962 CHANGE THE STORY ANYTIME. ISN'T THAT NICE? >> I LIKE THAT IDEA THAT YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR STORY. 327 00:41:05,029 --> 00:41:11,802 YOU CAN CHANGE THE NARRATIVE. >> IT WOULD BE A HORRIBLE WORLD IF PEOPLE NEVER CHANGED FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIFE. 328 00:41:11,869 --> 00:41:18,676 OR THEY WERE -- THEY WERE AN ANGRY PERSON, OR UPSET PERSON, OR DEPRESSED PERSON AND IT'S, LIKE, THAT'S YOUR FATE. 329 00:41:18,742 --> 00:41:23,414 BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE. >> DO YOU THINK YOU'VE CHANGED THAT MUCH? >> I FEEL LIKE, YEAH, I'M A VERY 330 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,152 DIFFERENT PERSON THAN I WAS WHEN I WAS YOUNG. >> WERE YOU CONSCIOUS OF THOSE CHANGES? 331 00:41:28,219 --> 00:41:35,025 >> SOMETIMES MY FRIENDS WOULD SAY, "YOU'RE REALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU USED TO BE WHEN I FIRST MET YOU. 332 00:41:35,092 --> 00:41:40,297 YOU'RE A REALLY DIFFERENT PERSON NOW." >> BY THE WAY, WERE THEY SAYING THAT IN A NICE WAY? 333 00:41:40,364 --> 00:41:44,501 OR WAS THAT BEING YELLED OUT OF THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS? >> IT WAS A NICE WAY. IT WAS LIKE, "WOW, YOU'VE REALLY 334 00:41:44,568 --> 00:41:47,638 CHANGED." 335 00:41:47,705 --> 00:41:50,674 -- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com 336 00:41:50,741 --> 00:42:05,956 >>> THE STORIES BEHIND HIT SONGS FROM TALKING HEADS. >> I WAS INSPIRED BY ALICE COOPER AND RANDY 337 00:42:06,023 --> 00:42:15,232 >>> "THE LAST MINUTE" OF "60 MINUTES" IS SPONSORED BY UNITED HEALTH CARE. GET MEDICARE WITH MORE. 338 00:42:15,299 --> 00:42:22,773 >>> NOW AN UPDATE ON A STORY WE REPORTED THIS PAST OCTOBER ON DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS DEFAMATION LAWSUIT AGAINST FOX 339 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,946 NEWS. IT ACCUSES FOX NEWS AND SOME OF ITS HOSTS OF KNOWINGLY AND REPEATEDLY BROADCASTING FALSE 340 00:42:29,013 --> 00:42:36,921 ALLEGATIONS BY TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAWYERS AND SUPPORTERS. AMONG THEM, THAT DOMINION RIGGED ITS VOTE-COUNTING MACHINES TO 341 00:42:36,987 --> 00:42:45,796 SWITCH TRUMP VOTES TO JOE BIDEN. DOMINION'S CEO TOLD US IT WAS NO ACCIDENTAL ERROR BY FOX. >> IT WAS A VERY CLEAR 342 00:42:45,863 --> 00:42:49,867 CALCULATION, THEY KNEW THERE WERE LIES AND THEY WERE REPEATING THEM AND ENDORSING THEM. 343 00:42:49,934 --> 00:42:56,307 >> FOX CHAIRMAN RUPERT MURDOCH ACKNOWLEDGED AS MUCH IN A DEPOSITION RELEASED THIS PAST WEEK THAT FOLLOWS TEXTS AND 344 00:42:56,373 --> 00:43:02,079 EMAILS SHOWING SOME HOSTS THEMSELVES DIDN'T BELIEVE THE ALLEGATIONS THEY WERE REPEATING. I'M ANDERSON COOPER.