1
00:00:00,700 --> 00:00:16,015
MONTH.
>>> THE MANAGING DIRECT HERB OF
THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
RELEASED AN EYE-OPENING REPORT

2
00:00:16,082 --> 00:00:25,091
ON THE HEALTH OF THE GLOBAL
ECONOMY THIS PAST WEEK.
AND THEN SAT DOWN WITH US.
>> THE BIGGEST SURPRISE IS THAT

3
00:00:25,158 --> 00:00:37,337
THE PICTURE WHILE IT REMAINS
VERY CONCERNING IS LESS DIRE
THAN IT WAS JUST TWO MONTHS AGO.
SO IT IS NOT MUCH BETTER.

4
00:00:37,404 --> 00:00:47,414
IT IS JUST LESS BAD.
>>> THIS FORMER PROSECUTOR SAYS
DONALD TRUMP'S OWN FINANCIAL
STATEMENTS PROVE HE LIED TO

5
00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:55,989
BANKS BY INFLATING HIS REAL
ESTATE EMPIRE BY BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS.
MARK POMERANTZ QUIT THE

6
00:00:56,055 --> 00:01:02,429
MANHATTAN D.A.'S OFFICE AFTER HE
SAYS HIS BOSS WOULDN'T MOVE
FORWARD WITH THE CASE.
>> IF YOU TAKE THE EXACT SAME

7
00:01:02,495 --> 00:01:09,569
CONDUCT AND MAKE IT NOT ABOUT
DONALD TRUMP AND NOT ABOUT A
FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES, WOULD THE CASE HAVE BEEN

8
00:01:09,636 --> 00:01:14,741
INDICTED?
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN INDICTED IN A
FLAT SECOND.
>>> EVERYBODY GOOD?

9
00:01:14,808 --> 00:01:22,682
>> IN L.A. WE MET THE RED HOT
CHILI PEPPERS AT THE ROXY ON THE
SUNSET STRIP WHERE THEY TOLD US
JUST AS THEY CONNECT WITH

10
00:01:22,749 --> 00:01:28,755
AUDIENCES THEY CONNECT WITH EACH
OTHER.
>> THE WAY JAZZ PLAYERS PLAY AND
THE WAY THAT BASKETBALL PLAYERS

11
00:01:28,822 --> 00:01:33,593
PLAY.
TELEPATHICALLY UNDERSTANDING
WHEN TO GO, WHEN TO MOVE WHEN TO
DO THAT.

12
00:01:33,660 --> 00:01:37,831
>> WE'RE SUPPORTING EACH OTHER
SAME TIME.
EVERY HAS DIFFERENT WAYS OF
DOING THAT.

13
00:01:37,897 --> 00:01:47,841
>> I SEE BASS AT LEAD INSTRUMENT
WHOLE TIME.
>> HIM AT LEASE INSTRUMENT.
>> JYEAH.

14
00:01:47,907 --> 00:01:54,481
A BEY SOLO.
>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.

15
00:01:54,547 --> 00:02:11,464
>> THOSE STORIES AND MORE
TONIGHT ON "60 MINUTES.">>> WIT
INTEREST RATES AGAIN THIS PAST
WEEK, A WAR RAGING IN UKRAINE

16
00:02:11,531 --> 00:02:30,550
AND CHINA OPENING UP.
WE WONDERED ABOUT THE GLOBAL
ECONOMY.
SO WE ASKED KRISTALINA GEORGE

17
00:02:30,617 --> 00:02:36,756
YEAH VIRGINIA.
USING TO BAIL OUT COUNTRIES
DROWNING IN DEBT AND ISSUES
QUARTERLY REPORTS THAT WORLD

18
00:02:36,823 --> 00:02:46,900
LEADERS AND BANKERS RELY ON AND
ANALYZES THE ECONOMIC HEALTH OF
NEARLY 200 COUNTRIES.
THE LAST IMF REPORT IN OCTOBER

19
00:02:46,966 --> 00:02:56,743
PAINTED A DIRE PICTURE OF THE
GLOBAL ECONOMY.
MANAGING DIRECTOR GEORGIEVA WAS
MAKING DOOM AND BLOOM

20
00:02:56,809 --> 00:03:06,085
PREDICTIONS OF A DARK FUTURE BUT
THE IMF'S NEW REPORT ON 2023
ISSUED THIS PAST WEEK HAS HER
OPTIMISTIC SOMEWHAT.

21
00:03:06,152 --> 00:03:18,998
>> THE BIGGEST SURPRISE IS THAT
THE PICTURE WHILE IT REMAINS
VERY CONCERNING IS LESS DIRE
THAN IT WAS JUST TWO MONTHS AGO.

22
00:03:19,065 --> 00:03:26,839
>> WE ARE STILL GOING FOR A YEAR
OF SLOWING GROWTH.
WE ARE STILL GOING TO HAVE
INTEREST RATES RELATIVELY HIGH,

23
00:03:26,906 --> 00:03:36,282
BECAUSE INFLATION HASN'T
EVAPORATED.
SO IT IS NOT MUCH BETTER.
IT IS JUST LESS BAD.

24
00:03:36,349 --> 00:03:43,923
>> THE REPORT SAYS, WE'RE GOING
TO GO DOWN GENERALLY, THE WORLD,
AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO EASE UP?
>> THIS IS WHAT WE ARE EXPECTING

25
00:03:43,990 --> 00:03:56,836
TO SEE.
THAT INFLATION PROBABLY WOULD
SHRINK FROM 8.8% IN '22 TO JUST
SLIGHTLY OVER 4% IN 2024.

26
00:03:56,903 --> 00:04:07,146
>> SO TELL US ABOUT THE
PREDICTION FOR THE U.S. ECONOMY.
>> THE U.S. ECONOMY IS ALSO
GOING TO SLOW DOWN THIS YEAR,

27
00:04:07,213 --> 00:04:15,421
BUT AT LEAST BASED ON THE DATA
WE HAVE TODAY, WE THINK U.S.
WOULD BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH THE
YEAR NARROWLY AVOIDING FALLING

28
00:04:15,488 --> 00:04:21,794
INTO RECESSION.
> DOES THAT MEAN A SOFT
LANDING?
>> THAT MEANS A POSSIBILITY FOR

29
00:04:21,861 --> 00:04:27,467
A SOFT LANDING FOR THE UNITED
STATES
>> WHAT ABOUT EMPLOYMENT?
>> OUR EXPECTATION TOWARDS END

30
00:04:27,533 --> 00:04:39,746
OF YEAR IS TO SEE SOMEWHAT
WEAKER LABOR MARKETS, BUT LET'S
BE VERY CLEAR.
WE ARE NOT SCARED OF SOME BIG

31
00:04:39,812 --> 00:04:45,585
UNEMPLOYMENT WAVE SWIPING
THROUGH THE UNITED STATES.
>> SO WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO THE
U.S. FED?

32
00:04:45,652 --> 00:04:54,293
SHOULD THEY CONTINUE RAISING
RATES?
>> OUR ADVICE TO THE FED IS TO
STAY THE COURSE UNTIL CORE

33
00:04:54,360 --> 00:05:01,100
INFLATION STARTS STREAMING DOWN.
>> NOW, THIS IS EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING,
BECAUSE THE FED, LIKE ALL THE

34
00:05:01,167 --> 00:05:10,343
OTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS,
RELY ON THE IMF REPORTS.
>> THE FED HAS TO BE VERY
CAREFUL NOT TO START EASING

35
00:05:10,410 --> 00:05:16,783
FINANCIAL CONDITIONS
PREMATURELY.
>> WHAT ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS?
I'M SPEAKING OF THE DEBT CEILING

36
00:05:16,849 --> 00:05:25,525
SPECIFICALLY.
SHOULD YOU FACTOR THAT IN?
ARE YOU ASSUMING THAT THE UNITED
STATES COULD GO INTO DEFAULT,

37
00:05:25,591 --> 00:05:36,903
BECAUSE CONGRESS REFUSES TO LIFT
THE DEBT CEILING?
>> A DEFAULT OF U.S. WOULD CAUSE
SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO THE GLOBAL

38
00:05:36,969 --> 00:05:47,313
ECONOMY, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT
HISTORY, USUALLY AFTER A LOT OF
BACK AND FORTH, A SOLUTION IS
BEING FOUND.

39
00:05:47,380 --> 00:06:00,059
SO I PUT MY HOPE AND TRUST THAT
HISTORY WOULD BE REPEATED.
>> SO YOUR ASSUMPTION IS THAT
THE UNTHINKABLE WON'T HAPPEN?

40
00:06:00,126 --> 00:06:10,002
>> TO BE MORE OPEN-MINDED, THAT
THE UNTHINKABLE CAN HAPPEN.
EVEN MORE SO, THE WAR IN
UKRAINE, AND THIS IS WHY IT IS

41
00:06:10,069 --> 00:06:18,411
VERY IMPORTANT FOR EVERYBODY
CONCERNED TO TAKE THIS
CONVERSATION VERY SERIOUSLY.
IT WOULD BE VERY DAMAGING FOR

42
00:06:18,478 --> 00:06:30,656
U.S. CONSUMERS IF U.S. DEFAULTS.
THAT WOULD PUSH INTEREST RATES
UP, AND IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE
INFLATION TODAY, THEY'RE NOT

43
00:06:30,723 --> 00:06:39,465
GOING TO LIKE IT AT ALL WHAT MAY
HAPPEN TOMORROW.
>> KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA IS THE
FIRST IMF DIRECTOR FROM AN

44
00:06:39,532 --> 00:06:46,839
EMERGING MARKET HAVING GROWN UP
HERE IN SOFIA, BULGARIA UNDER
COMMUNISM.
TODAY THE OLD LENIN MONUMENTS

45
00:06:46,906 --> 00:06:57,383
HAVE BEEN REMOVED TO A REMOTE
GARDEN MUSEUM, BUT SHE REFUSED
TO GO SEE THEM WITH ME.
>> WHEN WERE YOU GROWING UP,

46
00:06:57,450 --> 00:07:06,993
HIGH SCHOOL, WERE YOU A
COMMITTED COMMUNIST?
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

47
00:07:07,059 --> 00:07:12,198
MY FAMILY WAS NOT PARTY MEMBER
FAMILY.
>> Reporter: LIFE WAS HARD.
AT 15 SHE STARTED WORKING IN

48
00:07:12,265 --> 00:07:20,606
SOFIA'S MAIN FOOD MARKET, STILL
THERE TODAY.
>> MY VERY FIRST DUTY WAS
CABBAGE, TO CLEAN IT AND PUT IT

49
00:07:20,673 --> 00:07:26,879
ON DISPLAY TO BE ATTRACTIVE.
>> Reporter: THE FAMILY HAD
LITTLE, BUT SHE REMEMBERS A
HAPPY CHILDHOOD.

50
00:07:26,946 --> 00:07:35,154
>> I WOULD BE COMING HOME FROM
SCHOOL.
WE LIVED ON THE FIRST FLOOR, AND
THE WINDOWS WOULD BE OPEN, AND I

51
00:07:35,221 --> 00:07:49,335
WOULD HEAR MY FATHER AND MY
MOTHER SINGING.
[ SNG
[ SINGING NON-ENGLISH ].

52
00:07:49,402 --> 00:07:57,844
>> SHE AND HER BROTHER STILL
REMEMBER THE WORDS.
TOUGH AS IT WAS UNDER COMMUNISM
THINGS GOT EVEN WORSE WHEN THE

53
00:07:57,910 --> 00:08:05,318
SOVIET UNION COLLAPSED.
>> NOTHING IN THE STORES.
NOTHING.
I WOULD GET UP AT 4:00 IN THE

54
00:08:05,384 --> 00:08:15,795
MORNING TO BUY MILK FOR MY
DAUGHTER AND IN THE MID-'90s
INFLATION BECAME SO BAD THAT
ULTIMATELY 2,000% A YEAR.

55
00:08:15,862 --> 00:08:24,704
>> OH, MY GOD.
>> IT WIPED OUT PEOPLE'S
SAVINGS.
>> SHE LEARNED ECONOMICS AT THE

56
00:08:24,770 --> 00:08:31,611
KARL MARX INSTITUTE IN SOFIA,
BUT AS THE SOVIET GRIP LOOSENED
SHE WAS FREE TO COMMIT TO
CAPITALISM WINNING A SCHOLARSHIP

57
00:08:31,677 --> 00:08:43,456
TO STUD ANY LONDON, THEN M.I.T.
SHE JOINED THE WORLD BANK AS AN
ECONOMIC RISING TO CEO, AND IN
2019 HEAD OF THE IMF.

58
00:08:43,522 --> 00:08:55,701
FOR HER, THE WAR IN UKRAINE IS A
CHILLING ECHO OF THE PAST AS
RUSSIA ONCE AGAIN MENACES ONE OF
ITS NEIGHBORS.

59
00:08:55,768 --> 00:08:59,305
GEORGIEVA HAD A PERSONAL REASON
TO WORRY.
HER BROTHER WAS LIVING IN
KHARKIV.

60
00:08:59,372 --> 00:09:12,018
>> I WOULD BE CALLING HIM, AND I
CAN HEAR THAT BOMBS ARE FALLING.
I CAN HEAR IT ON THE PHONE.
>> WHAT WAS IT LIKE?

61
00:09:12,084 --> 00:09:18,124
>> Translator: IT IS SO
DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN.
IT IS LIKE DESCRIBING TO
SOMEBODY WHO IS BLIND WHAT THE

62
00:09:18,190 --> 00:09:27,767
COLOR RED IS.
>> THE IMF HAS LENT UKRAINE $2.7
BILLION AND SHE SAYS IS
FINALIZING A PROGRAM TO SEND

63
00:09:27,833 --> 00:09:36,208
MORE.
>> UKRAINE LOST A THIRD OF ITS
ECONOMY, AND UKRAINE WILL
CONTINUE TO BE STRUGGLING,

64
00:09:36,275 --> 00:09:42,214
BECAUSE OF THIS UNPROVOKED
INVASION.
>> WHEN YOU DID YOUR REPORT, HOW
DID YOU FACTOR IN THE WAR?

65
00:09:42,281 --> 00:09:53,793
>> WE EXPECT THAT THE WAR WOULD
CONTINUE, BUT THE MOST
SIGNIFICANT IMPACT OF THE WAR
THAT WAS FOOD AND ENERGY PRICES

66
00:09:53,859 --> 00:10:04,770
JUMPING UP IS GOING TO BE FELT
LESS IN 2023.
EUROPE HAS DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB
TO FREE ITSELF FROM DEPENDENCY

67
00:10:04,837 --> 00:10:13,713
ON RUSSIAN OIL AND GAS, AND BY
DOING SO, THEY REDUCED THE
PREMIUM ON PRICES THAT COMES
FROM UNCERTAINTY.

68
00:10:13,779 --> 00:10:24,290
>> BUT THE WAR HAS SENT FOOD,
FUEL AND FERTILIZING PRICES WAY
UP ON FOUR CONTINENTS.
THE IMF WARNS THIS IS A DISASTER

69
00:10:24,357 --> 00:10:33,132
ON TOP OF A DISASTER FOR MANY
DEVELOPING NATIONS, AS THEY
BORROWED EXCESSIVELY DURING
COVID AND A GROWING NUMBER JUST

70
00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:43,275
CAN'T PAY IT BACK.
>> WE RISK TO GET TO A POINT
WHERE COUNTRY AFTER COUNTRY
AFTER COUNTRY FALLS OFF THE

71
00:10:43,342 --> 00:10:48,714
CLIFF AND THEN CREATES CONDITION
FOR A CRISIS.
THIS IS BECOMING A VERY PRESSING
ISSUE.

72
00:10:48,781 --> 00:10:58,691
60% OF LOW-INCOME COUNTRIES ARE
AT OR NEAR THAT DISTRESS.
60%.
>> SO WE HAVE THE U.S. DOLLAR.

73
00:10:58,758 --> 00:11:05,765
EXTREMELY STRONG RIGHT NOW.
HOW MUCH IS THAT FEEDING INTO
THE PROBLEM OF DEBT?
>> VERY DIFFICULT FOR EMERGING

74
00:11:05,831 --> 00:11:13,072
MARKETS AND DEVELOPING
ECONOMIES.
THEIR CURRENCIES DEPRECIATE.
SO IMAGINE YOU HAVE HIGH LEVEL

75
00:11:13,139 --> 00:11:22,681
OF DEBT THASHT IS DOLLAR
DOMINATES, INTEREST RATE GOES UP
AND YOUR CURRENCY GOES DOWN.
>> AND SO THEIR DEBT PAYMENTS

76
00:11:22,748 --> 00:11:31,157
ARE HIGHER, BUT THE BIGGEST
CREDITOR OF THESE DEVELOPING
NATIONS ISN'T THE U.S.
IT'S CHINA, WHICH HAS HANDED OUT

77
00:11:31,223 --> 00:11:41,434
$1 TRILLION IN LOANS TO ALMOST
150 COUNTRIES TO BUILD ROADS,
PORTS AND SO ON.
>> CHINA OVER THE YEARS HAS BEEN

78
00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:54,914
RELUCTANT TO NEGOTIATE ON THEIR
LOANS, AND FORGIVE LOANS.
>> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
CHINA HAS PRO ACTIVELY SEEK

79
00:11:54,980 --> 00:12:00,786
STRUCTURALLY OF THESE DEBT
OBLIGATIONS.
>> THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED "THE
CHINA DEBT TRAP" AND IT HAS BEEN

80
00:12:00,853 --> 00:12:08,828
THOUGHT THAT CHINA LIKED TO KEEP
COUNTRIES INDEBTED TO THEM SO
THAT THEY CAN APPLY POLITICAL
PRESSURE AND MAKE THEM BEHOLDEN

81
00:12:08,894 --> 00:12:17,970
TO CHINA.
>> CHINA HAS TO CHANGE ITS
POLICIES, BECAUSE LOW-INCOME
COUNTRIES CANNOT PAY.

82
00:12:18,037 --> 00:12:30,950
THIS IS WHEN THE INSTRA FROM
YOUR
YOUR -- INFRASTRUCTURE
BECOMES -- WE ARE WORKING TO

83
00:12:31,016 --> 00:12:39,658
BRILL CREDITORS FROM ADVANCED
ECONOMIES NEW CREDITS, CHINA,
SAUDI ARABIA, INDIA, AS WELL AS
THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND PUT THEM

84
00:12:39,725 --> 00:12:49,735
AROUND THE TABLE WITH THE BETTER
COUNTRIES.
WE ARE GOING TO BE IN BANGALORE,
IN INDIA, IN END OF FEBRUARY.

85
00:12:49,802 --> 00:12:56,909
>> HAS CHINA AGREED TO ATTEND?
>> CHINA'S GOING TO PARTICIPATE
AT THE LEVEL OF MINISTER OF
FINANCE AND THE GOVERNOR OF

86
00:12:56,976 --> 00:13:05,851
PEOPLE'S BANK OF CHINA.
>> GEORGIEVA TRAVELED THE WORLD
MEETING CHINA'S PREMIER AND
OTHER LEADERS TO ARRANGE THIS

87
00:13:05,918 --> 00:13:16,162
HISTORIC DEBT ROUNDTABLE.
A BIG WIN FOR THE HEAD OF THE
IMF, BECAUSE AS THE NEW REPORT
POINTS OUT, THE WORLD IS

88
00:13:16,228 --> 00:13:21,066
FRAGMENTING.
>> THIS ORGANIZATION WAS FOUNDED
AFTER WORLD WAR II.
IT WAS IN OPERATION THROUGH THE

89
00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:28,073
COLD WAR.
AND THEN THROUGH GLOBALIZATION.
ARE WE IN THE MIDST OF
DEGLOBALIZATION?

90
00:13:28,140 --> 00:13:43,522
AND IS IT DESTABILIZING?
>> THIS IS REALLY -- PROBLEMATIC
FOR OUR FUTURE, BECAUSE A
FRAGMENTED WORLD IS POORER AND

91
00:13:43,589 --> 00:13:48,160
LESS SECURE.
WE DID ASSESSMENT HOW MUCH WOULD
BE THE LOSS?
JUST TRADE.

92
00:13:48,227 --> 00:13:57,636
IF WE TRADE LESS WITH EACH
OTHER.
IF WE BREAK INTO BLOCS.
THAT WOULD TAKE AWAY $1.5

93
00:13:57,703 --> 00:14:05,711
TRILLION FROM THE WORLD YEAR
AFTER YEAR.
>> DO YOU CONSIDER FIGHTING
DEGLOBALIZATION AS YOUR NUMBER

94
00:14:05,778 --> 00:14:18,357
ONE PRIORITY?
>> I DO CONSIDER MAKING THE CASE
FOR AN INTEGRATED ECONOMY OUR
MAIN PRIORITY TODAY, BUT LET ME

95
00:14:18,424 --> 00:14:28,267
BE VERY FAIR TO YOUR QUESTION.
GLOBALIZATION AS WE HAVE BUILT
IT OVER THE LAST THREE DECADES
WASN'T PERFECT, AND WE WERE SLOW

96
00:14:28,334 --> 00:14:39,011
TO ADMIT THAT THERE WERE
WINNERS, BUT THERE WERE ALSO
LOSERS.
UNLESS WE FIX THAT, UNLESS WE

97
00:14:39,078 --> 00:14:48,821
PAY ATTENTION AND WE ARE HONEST,
WHO BENEFITS WHO DOESN'T, AND
CORRECT IT, GLOBALIZATION WILL
HAVE ITS ENEMIES.

98
00:14:48,887 --> 00:14:58,264
>> IS IT A PLUS THAT YOU CAME
FROM BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN?
HOW DOES IT HELP YOU?
>> I LEARNED THE COST OF BAD

99
00:14:58,330 --> 00:15:09,108
POLICIES, AND HOW DEVASTATING
THEY ARE TO ORDINARY PEOPLE, AND
HOW YOU CAN CHANGE A COURSE OF
THE ECONOMY WITH GOOD POLICIES.

100
00:15:09,174 --> 00:15:25,824
THIS IS WHAT I APPLY TODAY IN MY
JOB. >>> THIS PAST WEEK MANHATT
DISTRICT ATTORNEY ALVIN BRAGG
MADE HEADLINES WHEN IT WAS

101
00:15:25,891 --> 00:15:32,097
REPORTED HE WAS PRESENTING
EVIDENCE TO A GRAND JURY OF
DONALD TRUMP'S ALLEGED
INVOLVEMENT IN HUSH MONEY

102
00:15:32,164 --> 00:15:39,872
PAYMENTS TO PORN STAR STORMY
DANIELS.
IT WAS THE MOST DRAMATIC NEWS
INVOLVING D.A. BRAGG SINCE HE

103
00:15:39,938 --> 00:15:45,911
HALTED ANOTHER GRAND JURY PAT
O'BRIEN A YEAR AGO.
THAT ONE OF MR. TRUMP'S REAL
ESTATE FINANCIAL RECORDS.

104
00:15:45,978 --> 00:15:54,119
BRAGG'S DECISION PROMPTED
VETERAN PROSECUTOR MARK
POMERANTZ TO RESIGN IN PROTEST.
POMERANTZ HAS A REPUTATION FOR

105
00:15:54,186 --> 00:16:02,161
HANDLING COMPLEX FINANCIAL
CRIMES, AND HE TOLD US HE
DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY HIS TEAM
WAS STOPPED FROM PROCEEDING.

106
00:16:02,227 --> 00:16:11,437
TONIGHT, YOU'LL HEAR WHAT
POMERANTZ DISCOVERED IN HIS
INVESTIGATION AND WHY HE STILL
THINKS THE D.A. SHOULD PROSECUTE

107
00:16:11,503 --> 00:16:19,211
THE FORMER PRESIDENT ON WHAT HE
SAYS IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT CASE
OF FINANCIAL FRAUD.
>> TAKE THE EXACT SAME CONDUCT

108
00:16:19,278 --> 00:16:25,784
AND MAKE IT NOT ABOUT DONALD
TRUMP AND NOT ABOUT A FORMER
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,
WOULD THE CASE HAVE BEEN

109
00:16:25,851 --> 00:16:32,391
INDICTED?
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN INDICTED IN A
FLAT SECOND.
>> YOU SAID IN YOUR RESIGNATION

110
00:16:32,458 --> 00:16:39,298
LETTER THAT BRAGG'S DECISION
AMOUNTED TO A GRAVE FAILURE OF
JUSTICE.
>> YEAH.

111
00:16:39,365 --> 00:16:48,440
>> DO YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT?
>> I STILL BELIEVE IT.
>> DON'T PROSECUTORS OFTEN
DISAGREE WITH DECISIONS MADE BY

112
00:16:48,507 --> 00:16:55,647
THEIR BOSSES?
I MEAN, WHAT MAKES THIS
DIFFERENT?
>> GIVEN ALL THE EVIDENCE THAT

113
00:16:55,714 --> 00:17:03,489
WE HAD, AND THAT NOBODY SAID,
HEY, THE GUY'S NOT GUILTY.
>> NOBODY SAID THAT.
>> NOBODY EVER SAID THAT.

114
00:17:03,555 --> 00:17:09,995
>> MARK POMERANTZ, WHO SPENT ONE
YEAR EXAMINING THE FORMER
PRESIDENT'S ANNUAL FINANCIAL
STATEMENTS AND ACCOUNTING

115
00:17:10,062 --> 00:17:23,242
DOCUMENTS FROM 2011 TO 2020 SAID
EVERYONE ON HIS TEAM CONCLUDED
DONALD TRUMP LIED ABOUT HIS
ASSETS TO APPEAR WEALTHIER THAN

116
00:17:23,308 --> 00:17:33,886
HE WAS TO OBTAIN LOANS TO GROW
HIS EMPIRE.
HE USED THE MONEY TO BUY THE
DORAL HOTEL IN MIAMI, REFINANCE

117
00:17:33,952 --> 00:17:42,094
THE TRUMP INTERNATIONAL HOTEL
AND TOWER IN CHICAGO, AND TO
RENOVATE THE OLD POST OFFICE
PROPERTY IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

118
00:17:42,161 --> 00:17:50,702
>> WHAT THE INVESTIGATION
DETERMINED WAS THAT THE
FINANCIAL STATEMENTS THAT WERE
SUBMITTED TO BANKS FOR THOSE

119
00:17:50,769 --> 00:17:56,542
YEARS WERE OVER STATED IN EACH
CASE BY LITERALLY BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS.
>> BILLIONS?

120
00:17:56,608 --> 00:18:09,254
>> BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
>> HOW WAS HIS BUSINESS EMPIRE
DEPENDENT ON OR INFLUENCED BY
THESE FALSE STATEMENTS?

121
00:18:09,321 --> 00:18:19,364
>> THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS THAT
HE PREPARED WERE GIVEN TO THE
BANKS AND HAD TO BE GIVEN TO THE
BANKS IN ORDER TO GET THE LOANS

122
00:18:19,431 --> 00:18:27,539
THAT HE GOT.
SO HE GOT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS OF BANK FINANCING IN
CONNECTION WITH MANY OF HIS

123
00:18:27,606 --> 00:18:37,483
PROPERTIES.
>> SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING
THAT HIS EMPIRE'S BUILT ON LIES?
>> HIS EMPIRE WAS BUILT ON LIES.

124
00:18:37,549 --> 00:18:45,023
I AM SAYING THAT.
>> Reporter: POMERANTZ SAYS THE
INVESTIGATION FOUN DONALD TRUMP
DRAMATICALLY INFLATED THE VALUES

125
00:18:45,090 --> 00:18:58,570
OF HIS MARQUEE PROPERTIES.
MAR-A-LAGO, 40 WALL STREET, 7
SPRINGS IN KEFTWEST CHESTOR COU
NEW YORK AND GOLF COURSE, IN

126
00:18:58,637 --> 00:19:07,346
ORDER TO BOLSTER HIS NET WORTH.
>> WHAT YOU GET OUT OF IT WAS A
NET WORTH TRUMP COULD ANNOUNCE
TO THE WORLD WAS A NET WORTH HE

127
00:19:07,412 --> 00:19:21,660
WANTED TO ANNOUNCE.
>> THE TOTAL IS $8,737,540,000.
NOW, I'M NOT DOING THAT -- I'M
NOT GOING THAT TO BRAG, BECAUSE

128
00:19:21,727 --> 00:19:27,332
YOU KNOW WHAT?
I DON'T HAVE TO BRAG.
I DON'T HAVE TO.
FWLEEFB

129
00:19:27,399 --> 00:19:33,438
BELIEVE IT OR NOT.
>> Reporter: DONALD TRUMP
BRAGGED OF HIS WEALTH ANNOUNCING
HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

130
00:19:33,505 --> 00:19:45,217
HIS FINANCIAL STATEMENTS ARE AT
THE HEART OF A SEPARATE BUT
SIMILAR FRAUD CASE PENDING
AGAINST DONUT AND OTHERS.

131
00:19:45,284 --> 00:19:52,090
>> THE EXPLAIN DEMONSTRATES
DONALD TRUMP FALSELY INFLATED
HIS NET WORTH BY BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS.

132
00:19:52,157 --> 00:19:57,629
>> Reporter: DONALD TRUMP HAS
CALLED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S
CASE A POLITICALLY-DRIVEN
WITCH-HUNT AND DENIED

133
00:19:57,696 --> 00:20:04,536
WRONGDOING.
PARTLY, HE SAYS, BECAUSE HE PAID
OFF THE LOANS.
>> THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE BANKS

134
00:20:04,603 --> 00:20:10,175
ARE OKAY WITH FALSE FINANCIAL
STATEMENTS.
>> HE PAID OFF THE LOANS.
WHAT'S THE CRIME?

135
00:20:10,242 --> 00:20:18,350
>> THE LAW IS CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT
YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE THAT A
LOAN WASN'T REPAID OR THAT A
BANK LOST MONEY.

136
00:20:18,417 --> 00:20:30,395
IT'S STILL A CRIME TO LIE TO A
BANK TO GET A LOAN.
>> Reporter: POMERANTZ HAS
WRITTEN A BOOK "PEOPLE vs.

137
00:20:30,462 --> 00:20:48,246
DONALD TRUMP" PUBLISHED BY OUR
PARENT COMPANY, AND HE CAME OUT
OF RETIREMENT TO JOIN THEN
SERIA VANCE

138
00:20:48,313 --> 00:20:56,088
CYRIL VANCE'S INVESTIGATION AND
FORMER ATTORNEY INTERVIEWED
MICHAEL COHEN.
>> NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP

139
00:20:56,154 --> 00:20:59,825
YOU GOD.
>> I DO.
>> >> Reporter: WHO TESTIFIED
BEFORE CONGRESS IN 2019 ABOUT

140
00:20:59,891 --> 00:21:07,199
DONALD TRUMP'S FINANCIAL
PRACTICES.
>> TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE DID THE
PRESIDENT OR HIS COMPANY EVER

141
00:21:07,265 --> 00:21:14,873
INFLATE ASSETS OR REVENUES?
>> YES.
>> AND WAS THAT DONE WITH THE
PRESIDENT'S KNOWLEDGE OR

142
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:20,746
DIRECTION?
>> EVERYTHING WAS DONE WITH THE
KNOWLEDGE AND AT THE DIRECTION
OF MR. TRUMP.

143
00:21:20,812 --> 00:21:29,755
>> AND WHAT HE TOLD US IN A
NUTSHELL WAS THAT HE HAD BEEN IN
THE ROOM WITH TRUMP AND WITH
ALLEN WEISSELBERG, WHO WAS THE

144
00:21:29,821 --> 00:21:39,064
CFO OF THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION,
AND THE CONVERSATION INVOLVED
DONALD TRUMP SAYING, MY NET
WORTH NEEDS TO BE X.

145
00:21:39,131 --> 00:21:46,271
AND SO YOU START WITH A NET
WORTH TARGET, REVERSE
ENGINEERING?
>> RE VERSE ENGINEERING SO THAT

146
00:21:46,338 --> 00:21:54,379
YOU COME BACK AND SAY, OKAY,
BOSS.
WE'VE DONE YOUR FINANCIAL
STATEMENT, AND IT SHOWS $5

147
00:21:54,446 --> 00:22:01,920
BILLION.
>> THEN YOU GUYS GO OUT AND
FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADD UP MY
ASSETS TO REACH THIS FALSE

148
00:22:01,987 --> 00:22:11,396
NUMBER?
>> CORRECT.
AND IT WAS EASIER TO BUMP UP
CERTAIN ASSETS THAN OTHER

149
00:22:11,463 --> 00:22:19,604
ASSETS.
SEVEN SPRINGS, MAR-A-LAGO, THE
TRIPLEX, RESIDENCES.
EACH OF WHICH, BY THE WAY, HE

150
00:22:19,671 --> 00:22:30,282
CLAIMED TO HAVE A VALUE IN --
THAT WAS MORE THAN ANYBODY HAD
EVER BOUGHT OR SOLD A PRIVATE
RESIDENCE FOR IN THE HISTORY OF

151
00:22:30,348 --> 00:22:36,221
THE UNITED STATES EVER.
>> EVER?
>> CORRECT.
>> BUT YOU'VE TOLD US, I MEAN,

152
00:22:36,288 --> 00:22:44,529
HE ADMITTED, COHEN'S A CONVICTED
PERJURER.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> SO HOW FAR CAN HIS TESTIMONY

153
00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:51,269
GO?
>> AND THAT'S WHY IT WAS SO
IMPORTANT FOR US TO GO TO THE
ACCOUNTING DOCUMENTS.

154
00:22:51,336 --> 00:22:56,708
HOW DO YOU KNOW HE'S TELLING THE
TRUTH?
YOU KNOW IT BECAUSE YOU SEE IT
IN THE DOCUMENTS.

155
00:22:56,775 --> 00:23:02,180
>> Reporter: HE'S TALKING ABOUT
DONALD TRUMP'S ACCOUNTING
DOCUMENTS USED TO CALCULATE THE
VALUE OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S

156
00:23:02,247 --> 00:23:08,353
REAL ESTATE.
SOME OF WHICH MARK POMERANTZ
SHARED WITH US.
HE RELEASED THEM AFTER THEY WERE

157
00:23:08,420 --> 00:23:15,193
MADE PUBLIC IN LETITIA JAMES'
LAWSUIT.
ATTORNEY POMERANTZ SAID HE DID
NOT SHARE GRAND JURY MATERIAL

158
00:23:15,260 --> 00:23:20,966
WITH US.
>> HE SAID WENT ON FOR YOUEARS.
WHAT WAS THE PATTERN?
>> TABLETICES VARIED FROM

159
00:23:21,032 --> 00:23:28,106
PROPERTY TO PROPERTY TO
PROPERTY.
WHAT THEY HAD IN COMMON WAS THAT
THEY WERE DISHONEST.

160
00:23:28,173 --> 00:23:37,082
>> Reporter: THE ACCOUNTING
SPREAD SHEET VALUED MAR-A-LAGO
AT $739 MILLIO IN 2018.
BUT ATTORNEY GENERAL JAMES

161
00:23:37,149 --> 00:23:47,626
CONCLUDED IT WAS ONLY WORTH
ABOUT $75 MILLION OPALMOST TEN
TILES LESS.
IN PART BECAUSE HE HAD GIVEN

162
00:23:47,692 --> 00:23:54,399
AWAY THE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT
RIGHTS FOR A TAX DEDUCTION.
IN WESTCHESTER, NEW YORK,
TRUMP'S FINANCIAL DOCUMENTS

163
00:23:54,466 --> 00:24:10,348
VALUE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS FOR HIS
SEVEN SPRINGS PROPERTY AT $161
MILLION IN 2014.
BUT POM- POMERANTZ OWN DEVELOP

164
00:24:10,415 --> 00:24:20,692
ERG VALUED IT MUCH LESS.
DONALD TRUMP PURCHASED HIS GOLF
COURSE IN JUPITER, FLORIDA, FOR
$5 MILLION IN 2012, SEVEN MONTHS

165
00:24:20,759 --> 00:24:29,801
LATER ON HIS FINANCIAL DOCUMETS
VALUED IT AT $62 MILLION.
THEN FILED A LAWSUIT CLAIMING
HIS TAXES WERE TOO HIGH.

166
00:24:29,868 --> 00:24:38,643
>> HE NOT ONLY VALUES IT AT 12
TIMES WHAT HE PAID FOR, IN HIS
FINANCIAL STATEMENT, BUT THEN HE
SUES THE TAX ASSESSOR SAYING,

167
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:46,384
YOU HAD TO KNOW THIS COULDN'T BE
WORTH MORE THAN 5, BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT I PAID FOR IT IN AN
ARM'S LENGTH TRANSACTION.

168
00:24:46,451 --> 00:24:53,091
>> SO WHAT TIES DONALD TRUMP
DIRECTLY TO THIS?
YOU KNOW, COULDN'T HE SAY MY
ACCOUNTANT SAID IT'S WORTH THIS.

169
00:24:53,158 --> 00:25:02,334
I SIGNED IT.
>> THERE WERE MANY BITS AND
PIECES OF EVIDENCE ON WHICH WE
COULD RELY IN MAKING THAT CASE.

170
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:11,576
>> Reporter: ONE OF THOSE PIECES
POMERANTZ SHOWED US PART OF A
DEUTSCHE BANK LOAN SHOWING TRUMP
PERSONALLY VERIFIED HIS

171
00:25:11,643 --> 00:25:17,282
STATEMENTS ARE ACCURATE.
>> HE WARRANTS THAT THE
FINANCIAL STATEMENTS ARE TRUE
AND CORRECT IN ALL MATERIAL,

172
00:25:17,349 --> 00:25:27,158
RESPECTS, FINALLY, OF COURSE, ON
THE GUARANTEES IS HIS SHARPEE
SIGNIFICANT DONALD J. TRUMP.
>> Reporter: IN 2015 AND 2016

173
00:25:27,225 --> 00:25:33,665
ACCOUNTING DOCUMENTS, DONALD
TRUMP LISTED HIS FIFTH AVENUE
CONDOMINIUM AT 30,000 SQUARE
FEET.

174
00:25:33,732 --> 00:25:40,772
>> BUT IT WASN'T 30,000 SQUARE
FEET.
IT WAS 11,000 SQUARE FEET.
THAT'S A HUGE DISCREPANCY.

175
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:50,482
A HUGE VARIATION.
>> AND POMERANTZ SHOWED US BACK
IN 1994, DONALD TRUMP SIGNED
CONDOMINIUM PAPERWORK

176
00:25:50,548 --> 00:26:02,694
ACKNOWLEDGING THE APARTMENT'S
ACTUAL SQUARE FOOTAGE.
TRULY IT SAYS RIGHT HERE, THAT
THE SIZE OF THE APARTMENT IS 10

177
00:26:02,761 --> 00:26:05,697
ZSHS
10,996 FEET WITH HIS SIGNATURE
RIGHT HERE.
>> YEAH.

178
00:26:05,764 --> 00:26:12,504
FOR THE APARTMENT THAT HE LIVES
IN, AND BUILT.
>> Reporter: IN A STATEMENT TO
"60 MINUTES," A LAWYER FOR

179
00:26:12,570 --> 00:26:26,718
FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, JOE
TACOPINA, SAYS POMERANTZ IS
FALSELY ACCUING TRUMP TO SELL A
BOOK.

180
00:26:26,785 --> 00:26:33,258
PERSUADED THE FORMER DISTRICT
ATTORNEY TO PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE
TO A GRAND JURY SEEK AN
INDICTMENT AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

181
00:26:33,325 --> 00:26:39,631
>> TOO OFTEN THERE ARE TWO
STANDARDS OF JUSTICE.
ONE FOR THE RICH AND POWERFUL
AND CONNECTED AND ANOTHER FOR

182
00:26:39,698 --> 00:26:44,269
EVERYONE ELSE.
I'M ALVIN BRAGG AND I'M RUNNING
FOR MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY
TO CHANGE THAT.

183
00:26:44,336 --> 00:26:52,577
>> Reporter: IN JANUARY OF 2022,
ALVIN BRAGG, WHO CAMPAIGNED ON A
PROMISE TO HOLD POWERFUL NEW
YORKERS ACCOUNTABLE, WAS SWORN

184
00:26:52,644 --> 00:27:00,986
IN AS THE NEW MANHATTAN DISTRICT
ATTORNEY.
>> I, ALVIN LEONARD BRAGG JR.
>> Reporter: ACCORDING TO

185
00:27:01,052 --> 00:27:06,291
POMERANTZ, THE NEXT MONTH
STOPPED HIS TEAM FROM SEEKING AN
INDICTMENT OF MR. TRUMP.
>> WHAT DID HE WANT YOU TO DO?

186
00:27:06,358 --> 00:27:12,430
SLOW DOWN?
DID HE EVER SAY THAT?
>> HE DID NOT SAY TO SLOW DOWN.
HE NEVER SAID, I DON'T WANT TO

187
00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:17,669
BE RUSHED.
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME.
I NEED MORE TIME TO STUDY THE
FACTS.

188
00:27:17,736 --> 00:27:22,173
JUST, OKAY.
YOU NEED A DECISION.
YOU'LL GET A DECISION.
AND THE DECISION WAS, NO.

189
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:30,782
YOU'RE NOT GOING FORWARD.
>> Reporter: POMERANTZ AND THE
OFFICE'S GENERAL COUNSEL CAREY
DUNNE PROMPTLY RESIGNED.

190
00:27:30,849 --> 00:27:37,922
BRAGG REPORTEDLY HAD CONCERNS
ABOUT THE STRENGTH OF THE CASE.
>> WE DECIDED NOT TO BRING ANY
CHARGES AT THAT TIME, SO THAT WE

191
00:27:37,989 --> 00:27:43,928
COULD CONTINUE OUR INVESTIGATION
WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE DOING.
>> Reporter: IN DECEMBER D.A.
BRAGG WON A TAX FRAUD CASE

192
00:27:43,995 --> 00:27:51,336
AGAINST THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION.
HE DIDN'T CHARGE THE FORMER
PRESIDENT.
BUT POMERANTZ SAID THE CASE HE

193
00:27:51,403 --> 00:27:58,777
DEVELOPED AGAINST DONALD TRUMP
SHOULD STILL BE LAUNCHED.
>> I KNOW YOU HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO
ALVIN BRAGG, BUT IF YOU WERE TO

194
00:27:58,843 --> 00:28:04,816
SPEAK TO HIM, WHAT WOULD YOU
TELL HIM?
>> THIS WAS A RIGHTEOUS CASE.
YOU SHOULD BRING IT.

195
00:28:04,883 --> 00:28:15,794
IT'S IMPORTANT.
AND IF YOU MADE THE WRONG
DECISION, MAKE A BETTER
DECISION.

196
00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:22,767
>> Reporter: IN A STATEMENT TO
"60 MINUTES" DISTRICT ATTORNEY
ALVIN BRAGG SAYS HE AGREED WITH
SENIOR PROSECUTORS IN THE OFFICE

197
00:28:22,834 --> 00:28:29,040
WHO BELIEVED THEY NEEDED TO
INVESTIGATE FURTHER.
THAT, HE WROTE US, IS WHAT HIS
OFFICE HAS CONTINUED TO DO WITH

198
00:28:29,107 --> 00:28:32,077
GREAT SKILL AND PROFESSIONALISM.

199
00:28:42,787 --> 00:28:53,331
>>> ROCK BANDS ARE A SENSITIVE
INSTRUMENT CREATIVE TENSIONS
CLASHING EGOS, TOURING NONE OF
IT SCREAMS STABILITY.

200
00:28:53,398 --> 00:28:59,637
ADD DEMONS, DRUGS, AND A
BREAKDOWN WAITING TO HAPPEN.
THOUSAND EXPLAIN DURABILITY OF
THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS?

201
00:28:59,704 --> 00:29:10,915
THEY START IN THE THE '80s
SWIVELING AMONG GENRES FUNK,
PUNK, ROCK, RAP, AN UNDERGROUND
L.A. BANDFUL THEY BROKE THROUGH.

202
00:29:10,982 --> 00:29:21,126
40 YEARS ON THEY PERSIST.
NOMINATED TONIGHT FOR ANOTHER
GRAMMY AND ROCKING IN RELEVANCE
FOR FAR FARTHER THAN ANYONE

203
00:29:21,192 --> 00:29:30,168
WOULD HAVE PREDICTED.
NOT LEAST, THEMSELVES.
♪
>> THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS

204
00:29:30,235 --> 00:29:37,809
WARNED US.
THE STAGE IS NO PLACE FOR
BOUNDARIES.
ALL INTENSITY AND IMPROVIZATION

205
00:29:37,876 --> 00:29:48,786
AND HAPPY CHAOS, MUCH A BAND FOR
THE EYE AS FOR THE EAR.
♪
>> WE SAW THEM IN NASHVILLE AND

206
00:29:48,853 --> 00:29:56,561
AT THE AUSTIN CITY LIMITS
FESTIVAL.
♪
>> THE LAST STOP OF THEIR MOST

207
00:29:56,628 --> 00:30:07,305
SUCCESSFUL YEAR OF TOURING EVER.
WORTH OF $200 MILLION GROWTH.
♪
AS REMARKABLE FACT AS IT IS, A

208
00:30:07,372 --> 00:30:11,409
FOUNDING MEMBER WAS CELEBRATING
A MILESTONE.
A 60th ONE.
>> HAPPY BIRTHDAY.

209
00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:16,548
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> GO OUT, 80,000 PEOPLE THAT
ARE GOING TO KNOW EVERY WORD.
>> YEAH.

210
00:30:16,614 --> 00:30:22,187
>> CAN YOU WRAP YOUR BRAIN
AROUND THAT AFTER ALL THESE
YEARS?
>> I FEEL LIKE THE PHENOMENON OF

211
00:30:22,253 --> 00:30:30,094
OUR BAND AND THE THING I DO.
I DO FIND KIND OF INEXPLICABLE
EVERY TIME WE MAKE A NEW RECORD
GO OUT DO A TOUR AND I LOOK OUT

212
00:30:30,161 --> 00:30:39,704
INTO THE AUDIENCE FAR AS I CAN
SEE ARE, ACNE-FACED TEENAGERS
LOSING THEIR [ BLEEP ] MINDS.
♪

213
00:30:39,771 --> 00:30:48,279
>> THAT'S MICHAEL BALZARY KNOWN
UNIVERSALLY AS FLEA WHO PLAYS
BASS IN THE QUARTET.
♪

214
00:30:48,346 --> 00:30:59,090
THAT INCLUDES DRUMMER CHAD
SMITH, AGE 61.
GUITARIST JOHN FRUSCIANTE 52 AND
LEAD SINGER ANTHONY KIEDIS, 60,

215
00:30:59,157 --> 00:31:08,166
BORN WITHIN A FEW WEEKS OF FLEA.
>> EVERYBODY GOOD?
>> ALL RIGHT.
>> IN L.A. WE MET THEM ON THE

216
00:31:08,233 --> 00:31:15,373
ROXY ON THE SUNSET STRIP ONE OF
THEIR EARLY HAUNTS AND JUST AS
THEY CONNECT WITH AUDIENCES THEY
CONNECT WITH EACH OTHER.

217
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:21,246
>> THE WAY JAZZ PLAYERS PLAY AND
THE WAY BASKETBALL PLAYERS PLAY,
JUST LIKE TELEPATHICALLY
UNDERSTANDING WHEN TO GO AND

218
00:31:21,312 --> 00:31:25,617
WHEN TO MOVE AND WHEN TO DO
WHAT.
WE'RE ALL SUPPORTING EACH OTHER
AT THE SAME TIME.

219
00:31:25,683 --> 00:31:29,854
IT'S EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT
WAYS OF DOING THAT.
YOU KNOW?
>> I SEE THE BASS AS LEAD

220
00:31:29,921 --> 00:31:34,459
INSTRUMENT THE WHOLE TIME.
FLEA DOESN'T SEE IT THAT WAY.
>> YOU SEE HIM AS THE LEAD
INSTRUMENT?

221
00:31:34,525 --> 00:31:39,931
>> OH, YEAH.
YEAH.
EACH SONG A BASS SOLO.
THERE TO SUPPORT IT.

222
00:31:39,998 --> 00:31:49,774
♪
>> TO UNDERSTAND THEIR ENDURING
APPEAL START BY LISTENING TO
THEIR FOUR DECADE LONG LIST OF

223
00:31:49,841 --> 00:31:59,684
BANGERS THAT CUT A RIDICULOUSLY
WIDE MUSICAL SLOT.
♪
>> BUT THAT'S ONLY A PARTIAL

224
00:31:59,751 --> 00:32:08,159
EXPLANATION.
IT'S ALSO THE TORRENTIAL TALENT.
♪
WILDLY CONSIDERED RANKING AMONG

225
00:32:08,226 --> 00:32:17,535
THE GREATEST GUITAR PLAYERS,
FRUSCIANTE.
AND CHAT SMITH ONE OF TODAY'S
GREAT DRUMMERS.

226
00:32:17,602 --> 00:32:24,475
FLEA'S NAME SYNONYMOUS WITH
VIRTUALITY.
THIS MIGHT BE A BAND SUPERPOWER,
THERE'S NO CLEAR RINGLEADER.

227
00:32:24,542 --> 00:32:33,051
♪
>> WHAT DO YOU CALL YOURSELF?
>> I DON'T CALL MYSELF ANYTHING,
REALLY.

228
00:32:33,117 --> 00:32:40,391
I CALL MYSELF A BAND MEMBER.
>> ALL RIGHT.
>> ON A GOOD DAY, MUSICIAN,
SONGWRITER.

229
00:32:40,458 --> 00:32:47,498
>> FRONT MAN?
>> THREE FRONTMEN, THE RED HOT
CHILI PEPPERS, ALWAYS HAVE.
WE HAVE A FRONT MAN IN THE BACK.

230
00:32:47,565 --> 00:32:54,972
MR. CHAD SMITH.
♪
>> I'M REALLY STRUCK BY THE
PHYSICALITY OF WHAT YOU'RE

231
00:32:55,039 --> 00:33:00,745
DOING.
>> WE VALUE SO MUCH THE ABILITY
TO GO ROCK OUT ONSTAGE FOR TWO
HOURS.

232
00:33:00,812 --> 00:33:09,287
NOBODY WANTS TO LOSE THAT.
♪
>> SO WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU
ONSTAGE?

233
00:33:09,354 --> 00:33:15,526
DESCRIBE IT FROM YOUR
PERSPECTIVE.
>> IT'S A SACRED TIME FOR ME.
♪

234
00:33:15,593 --> 00:33:22,934
SO WHEN I GET ONSTAGE, LIKE, NO
MATTER WHAT I'M GOING TO GIVE
EVERYTHING I CAN.
I WANT TO ARTICULATE ALL OF THE

235
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:35,346
FEELINGS PHYSICALLY.
I WANT TO HONOR GREAT ENTERTAIN
ENTERTAINERS THAT CAME BEFORE,
FRANK SINATRA, JIMI HENDRIX, JON

236
00:33:35,413 --> 00:33:39,784
COLTRANE.
>> YOU SEE YOURSELF ON THIS
CONTINUUM?
>> I DO AND I THINK HAVING THAT

237
00:33:39,851 --> 00:33:49,093
VISION IS A, A BIG PART OF WHY
THE CHILI PEPPERS HAVE MANAGED
TO MAINTAIN FOR SO MANY YEARS
AND FOR US, AT LEAST TO

238
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,231
OURSELVES, WE STILL FEEL
RELEVANT AND VIBRANT.
>> STILL BASED IN GREATER LOS
ANGELES, IT'S THE CITY THEY LIVE

239
00:33:53,297 --> 00:34:00,972
IN, THE CITY OF ANGELS.
THEY'RE NOT JUST FROM THE AREA,
BUT OF IT.
KIEDIS IS A LOCAL FIXTURE ON HIS

240
00:34:01,038 --> 00:34:06,177
MOTORCYCLE.
FLEA, AT LAKER GAMES AND IN HIS
RETRO RIDE.
>> THIS IS YOUR TOWN.

241
00:34:06,244 --> 00:34:13,484
>> YEAH.
LOOK, I'M AN L.A. BOY ALL MY
LIFE AND I KNOW THIS TOWN INSIDE
OUT, EVERY LITTLE CRACK IN EVERY

242
00:34:13,551 --> 00:34:18,022
SIDEWALK.
>> THEIR STORY BEGINS ON THE
PAVEMENT OF HOLLYWOOD.
NOT PALM-LINED MOVIE STAR

243
00:34:18,089 --> 00:34:24,429
HOLLYWOOD BUT THE SEEDY ONE FROM
THE '70s.
FLEA SPENT EARLY YEARS IN NEW
YORK BEFORE HEADING WEST WITH

244
00:34:24,495 --> 00:34:29,534
HIS MOM.
ANTHONY KIEDIS A TRANSPLANT FROM
MICHIGAN LIVING WITH THIS
FATHER.

245
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:38,009
NEITHER CRITICALLY HAD BROTHERS.
LONG BEFORE THEY WERE BANDMATES
KIEDIS AND FLEA WERE BEST MATES
AT FAIRFAX HIGH.

246
00:34:38,075 --> 00:34:45,783
>> WHAT WAS THE FRIENDSHIP BORN
OF?
>> BOTH CAME FROM BROKEN HOMES,
ATYPICAL HOMES, NON-CONVENTION'S

247
00:34:45,850 --> 00:34:50,655
HOMES AND REALLY WANTED TO GET
IN TROUBLE.
HOW MUCH TROUBLE CAN WE GET IN
WITHOUT GOING TO JAIL.

248
00:34:50,721 --> 00:34:59,564
>> JUST LITTLE STREET URCHIN
PETTY THIEVING RUN AROUND IN THE
STREET, TRYING SO HARD.
YEARNING SO MUCH TO FIGURE IT

249
00:34:59,630 --> 00:35:05,970
OUT.
LIKE, HOW CAN WE MATTER?
MY RELATIONSHIP WITH ANTHONY IS
A PROFOUND THING FOR ME.

250
00:35:06,037 --> 00:35:13,845
I REMEMBER MOM TELLING ME,
MICHAEL, YOU CAME HOME AND YOU
SAID, MOM, I MET SOMEBODY THAT
I'VE NERVE EVERY BEEN ABLE TO

251
00:35:13,911 --> 00:35:23,988
TALK TO -- LIKE THAT BEFORE.
YOU KNOW?
LIKE, SOMEONE I CAN REALLY TALK
TO, AND THAT I FELT HEARD BY.

252
00:35:24,055 --> 00:35:32,697
>> FLEA AND KIEDIS FOUT KINSHIP
WITH TWO OTHER OUTCAST
CLASSMATES.
HILLEL SLOVAK AND JACK IRONS A

253
00:35:32,763 --> 00:35:39,704
DRUMMER.
WORKING ON THEIR MUSICIANSHIP,
SHOWS UP IN AN AFTER-SCHOOL
SPECIAL.

254
00:35:39,770 --> 00:35:44,575
>> I PROMISE NOT TO BE THE
WORD --
>> EVENTUALLY JOINS KIEDIS IN A
BAND.

255
00:35:44,642 --> 00:35:50,715
IN BEGINNING WASN'T EVEN
SINGING.
HE WAS RAPPINGANTS A LOT OF IT
HAD TO DO WITH HIP-HOP AND

256
00:35:50,781 --> 00:35:57,388
GRANDMASTER FLASH, LIKE I NEVER
SAW MYSELF AS A WILDLY MELODIC
PERSON BUT AT THAT MOMENT I WAS
LIKE, OH.

257
00:35:57,455 --> 00:36:05,329
YOU CAN JUST TELL A STORY AND BE
IN A BAND.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE
AL GREEN AND BE IN A BAND.

258
00:36:05,396 --> 00:36:11,802
THAT WAS MY TICKET TO THINK, I
CAN DO THIS.
>> Reporter: THEY CALLED
THEMSELVES THE RED HOT CHILI

259
00:36:11,869 --> 00:36:16,741
PEPPERS A NOD TO EARLY 20th
CENTURY JAZZ BANDS.
WITHIN A YEAR HAD A RECORD
CONTRACT.

260
00:36:16,807 --> 00:36:24,415
FROM THE BEGINNING, THEY WENT
FULL THROTTLE.
ALL GAS, NO BRAKE.
>> WE HAD A LOT OF MUSICAL

261
00:36:24,482 --> 00:36:35,526
INFLUENCES FROM HARD CORE BEBOP
JAZZ TO CRAZY PROGRESSIVE ROCK
TO HIP-HOP, BUT WE ALSO HAD THE
THREE STOOGES, ALSO HAD THE MARX

262
00:36:35,593 --> 00:36:42,967
BROTHERS, ALSO HAD RICHARD PRYOR
AND RED FOXX.
YOU KNOW, COMEDY AND BEING
RIDICULOUS.

263
00:36:43,034 --> 00:36:45,937
>> MELD THOSE TOGETHER.
>> MELD THEM.
>> WHAT DOES THAT LEAVE YOU
WITH?

264
00:36:46,003 --> 00:36:52,043
>> A MAKE IT OR BREAK IT BUNCH
OF BOYS WILLING TO RISK
EVERYTHING TO HAVE FUN IN THE
MOMENT.

265
00:36:52,109 --> 00:36:57,982
>> AT THE SAME TIME, THEY'VE
ALREADY TAKEN THE WORK
SERIOUSLY.
♪

266
00:36:58,049 --> 00:37:08,092
>> HOW DO YOU WRITE AND
CONSTRUCT SONGS?
HOW DOES THIS WORK?
COME IN WITH, I'VE GOT IDEAS.

267
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:15,099
>> FLEA AND I USED TO DO
FACE-OFFS QUITE A BIT.
>> WHAT'S A FACE-OFF?
>> HE'S IN A SECONDS, GOT A

268
00:37:15,166 --> 00:37:20,338
VERSE.
NIECE A CHORUS.
OLD DAYS START IT OUT GOING LIKE
THAT, GIVE EACH OTHER A DIRTY

269
00:37:20,404 --> 00:37:27,244
LOOK.
GO INSIDE THE ROOM.
COME IN AND -- EACH GUY PLAYS
HIS SECTION FOR THE OTHER GUYS.

270
00:37:27,311 --> 00:37:36,454
>> EITHER GO HOME, THINK OF IT
AT HOME OR GO HOME.
>> WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THE
FACE-OFF?

271
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:43,327
IT'S AN UNEXPECTED MOMENT OF
HUMILITY.
THEY PUT THEIR IDEAS ON THE
LINE, AND WHATEVER IS THE BEST

272
00:37:43,394 --> 00:37:49,667
FOR THE SONG, NO ONE CARES.
>> HOW DO YOU HIT THAT BALANCE
BETWEEN COMMITMENT TO THE CRAFT
AND ALSO THE RIDICULOUSNESS

273
00:37:49,734 --> 00:37:54,739
YOU'RE PROUD OF?
>> JUST ARE ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
JUST BEING OURSELVES,
DISCIPLINED.

274
00:37:54,805 --> 00:38:03,047
WE WORK HARD.
WE'RE SILLY, FUNNY.
>> WE'RE ENTERTAINERS.
>> WE'RE ENTERTAINERS.

275
00:38:03,114 --> 00:38:15,526
>> LIKE ALL ENTERTAINERS THEY
MAINTAIN AT HITTING THINK PEAKS.
PRACTICE, STAY IN SHAP CHAD
SMITH REPLACED JACK IRONS.

276
00:38:15,593 --> 00:38:23,768
NOW THEY HAVE TECH SPORT AND
PHYSICAL TRANNERS, NOT GROUPIES.
>> HOW IS YOUR BODY HOLDING UP?
>> PRETTY GOOD FOR AND OLD

277
00:38:23,834 --> 00:38:28,539
GENTLEMAN.
>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE MY GUYS
KNOW THAT HE'S BACK THERE, THE
ENGINE IS RUNNING.

278
00:38:28,606 --> 00:38:39,350
LIKE A WELL-TUNED, AND GIVES
THEM CONFIDENCE THEY CAN -- LIKE
PAINT.
THE CANNES THEY GET TO PAINT ON

279
00:38:39,417 --> 00:38:52,830
TOP OF IT.
♪
>> JOHN "48 FRUSCIANTE PLAYS
PERPETUALLY AND WARMS UP FOUR

280
00:38:52,897 --> 00:39:02,973
HOURS ON DAYS OF CONCERTS.
AND A TRUMPET PLAYER PLAYING
BASS.
SHOWS US AT HIS MALIBU HOME

281
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:12,783
STUDIO.
>> NOTHING FANCY.
WALKING, TWO DIFFERENT FINGERS.
♪

282
00:39:12,850 --> 00:39:23,027
AND THEN THUMPING AND POPPING,
THIS SOUND.
MAKE THE SOUND THEN, POPPING.
♪

283
00:39:23,094 --> 00:39:31,368
>> I DID THIS SO MUCH AND SO
AGGRESSIVELY THAT THIS CALLUS ON
MY THUMB WAS SPLIT OPEN.
I HAD THIS GASH.

284
00:39:31,435 --> 00:39:39,210
OPEN WOUND IN MY THUMB AND I
FIGURED OUT HOW TO FIX IT BY POW
ARE SUPER GLUE IN THERE
♪ TELL ME BABY ♪

285
00:39:39,276 --> 00:39:50,688
>> THE BAND ALSO CONFRONTED THE
KIND OF PHYSICAL CHALLENGES THAT
CANNOT BE SO EASILY HACKED.
NOT LEAST SOBRIETY.

286
00:39:50,755 --> 00:40:02,666
HILLEL SLOVAK DIED OF A HEROIN
OVERDOSE IN 1988.
HIS VENCHTUAL REPLACEMENT INTO
HARD DRUGS, HEROIN.

287
00:40:02,733 --> 00:40:08,372
WHO LEFT THE BAND TWICE BEFORE
RETURNING.
♪
>> AS FOR ANTHONY KIEDIS, HE

288
00:40:08,439 --> 00:40:18,315
TOLD US HE WORKS AT STAVING OFF
HIS VARIOUS ADDICTIONS.
CLICHE, SEX, DRUGS AND ROCK 'N'
ROLL, HE HIT THAT TRIFECTA LARGE

289
00:40:18,382 --> 00:40:28,325
AND DISCUSSED IN HIS 2004
MEMOIR.
>> CULTURAL NORMS.
LOOK BACK AT ANTICS AND BEHAVE

290
00:40:28,392 --> 00:40:32,463
FROM THE '70s AND '80s IN
PARTICULAR.
WOMEN IN PARTICULAR THAT
WOULDN'T FLY TODAY.

291
00:40:32,530 --> 00:40:40,838
HOW DO YOU PROCESS THAT?
>> WOW.
AH -- I FEEL LIKE I WAS WHO I
WAS WHEN I WAS THAT PERSON.

292
00:40:40,905 --> 00:40:47,645
I WOULDN'T BLAME IT ON AN ERA OR
A CULTURAL LANDSCAPE OR A
DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY SOCIETY
VIEWS PEOPLE.

293
00:40:47,711 --> 00:40:55,719
IT'S LIKE, IF I DID SOMETHING
STUPID THEN IT WOULD BE STUPID
TODAY, AND VICE VERSA.
HOPEFULLY I'VE MADE AMOUNTS

294
00:40:55,786 --> 00:41:01,926
ALONG THE WAY.
♪
>> THEREIN MAY LIE ANOTHER
SECRET TO THE BAND'S LONGEVITY.

295
00:41:01,992 --> 00:41:06,797
JUST AS BAD IS BAD, GOOD IS
GOOD.
ERA BE DAMNED.
THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS

296
00:41:06,864 --> 00:41:13,971
EVOLVED WITHOUT CONCESSIONS.
NOT JUST PLAYING THEIR
INSTRUMENTS BUT STILL ATTACKING
THEM.

297
00:41:14,038 --> 00:41:19,910
THEY'VE SURVIVED, TIME SOMETIMES
IN SPITE OF THEMSELVES.
NO CODA IN EARSHOT, NO END IN
SIGHT.

298
00:41:19,977 --> 00:41:28,452
♪

299
00:41:28,686 --> 00:41:35,359
♪ WAITING ON ♪
>> NOT JUST TROTTING OUTSIDE HIT
FROM 20, 30 YEARS AGO.
A VIBRANT CREATING ENTERPRISE?

300
00:41:35,426 --> 00:41:40,931
>> YEAH.
IT TAKES DILIGENCE.
IT TAKES SACRIFICE.
WE WORK, WE WRITE.

301
00:41:40,998 --> 00:41:45,469
WE NEVER STOP.
THIS IS OUR PURPOSE.
LIKE, WE'RE HUMBLE.
WE'RE STUDENTS.

302
00:41:45,536 --> 00:41:49,573
WE CARE.
WE WANT TO GROW.
WE WANT TO LEARN.
>> NOT EVERY ARTIST FEELS THAT.

303
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,876
>> EVERY GOOD ONE DOES.

304
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:02,820
>>> WHAT HAPPENS AT HOME WITH
THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS?
A "

305
00:42:08,192 --> 00:42:16,667
>>> "THIS MORNING" OF "60
MINUTES" IS SPONSORED BY --
UNITED HEALTH CARE.
GET MEDICARE WITH MORE.

306
00:42:16,734 --> 00:42:25,142
>>> NOW, AN UPDATE ON A STORY
FROM OCTOBER.
WHAT HAPPENED AT GRIZZLY FLATS
INVESTIGATED WHY A WILDFIRE

307
00:42:25,209 --> 00:42:30,681
WIPED OUT A CALIFORNIA HAMLET.
WE FOUND EVIDENCE OF
MISMANAGEMENT BY THE U.S. FIRE
SERVICE, WHICH HAD DONE LITTLE

308
00:42:30,748 --> 00:42:38,589
TO MITIGATE THE FIRE RISK.
IT COMPOUNDED THE PROBLEM WITH
ITS DECISIONS ONCE THE FIRE
APPROACHED.

309
00:42:38,656 --> 00:42:44,895
CANDACE TYLER LOST HER FAMILY
RANCH.
>> THE FOREST SERVICE THEY DID
ALL THEY COULD.

310
00:42:44,962 --> 00:42:51,201
>> YOUR MAPS SAY, WE'RE GOING TO
BURN.
YOUR MODELS SHOW WE'RE GAWK TO
BURN BUT YOU'RE NOT WORRIED

311
00:42:51,268 --> 00:42:56,840
ABOUT IT?
OH, YOU DON'T HAVE THE
RESOURCES?
THAT'S A JOKE.

312
00:42:56,907 --> 00:43:04,415
>> THIS MONTH MEMBERS OF KEEFE
DELEGATION WILL MEET WITH THE
FOREST SERVICE TO HEAR AN
EXPLANATION.

313
00:43:04,481 --> 00:43:14,525
I'M BILL