Spirit Airlines has announced
that they are merging with Frontier Airlines. Yes.
Quite literally they're going to put the planes together,
and as their passengers, we will, like,
look into each other's faces as we fly.
You thought things couldn't get worse, but they did. (laughs)
Uh, yeah, a lot of people were like,
"Aah, Spirit and Frontier."
I think people are thinking of it the wrong way.
Because in math, I learned,
that if you multiply a negative and a negative,
you get a positive. So, technically,
this is gonna be the greatest airline of all time.
ANNOUNCER: Coming to you from the heart of Times Square
in New York City, the only city in America, it's
The Daily Show.
Tonight-- Pence takes on Trump,
Joe Rogan apologizes... again,
and Michael S. Regan!
This is The Daily Show with Trevor Noah!
Hey! What's going on, everybody?
Welcome to The Daily Show. I'm Trevor Noah.
And joining me for today's headlines
is my good friend Michael Kosta.
What's going on, Michael? How you doing?
-I'm good. I'm getting ready for Valentine's Day. -Ooh.
-You know? Yeah. I do my normal Valentine Day's routine. -Yeah?
I googled how to make good sex, I booked a head-to-toe waxing.
-Ooh. -I booked a reservation at a great restaurant-- French--
-Jacques in the Box. So that's nice. -Oh, very nice.
-I like that. -You know, it's odd
that the love holiday's in February.
What? Am I supposed to think about how much I love my wife
while I'm shoveling frozen dog shit off the sidewalk, you know?
-Maybe it's the... maybe it's the cuddling. -Yeah.
Maybe it's, like, you know, it's a good time to be, you know?
-It's... It means I'll be cuddled together? But... -Yeah.
It's-it's weird that you have that thought because,
like, from where we're from, the love thing is in the summer.
-So I've never thought of it that way. -I feel like,
where you're from is more loving, possibly.
In fact, where I'm from, it made more sense
-that Cupid had no clothes. -Right.
-Because now it's just weird. -Yeah, Cupid would be, like...
-Yeah. -You know, just his eyes.
-He couldn't even get the bow ready. Yeah. Yeah. -No, nothing.
All right, uh, let's jump straight into today's headlines.
♪ ♪
We kick things off in the metaverse.
It's the virtual world that's just like the real world.
By which I mean
Mark Zuckerberg is harvesting your data there, too.
Companies like Meta, AKA Facebook,
are betting billions of dollars on the hope
that virtual reality is the future of human interaction.
But as they get started, they're finding out
that in many ways, the people of the future are all too much
like the people of the past.
NEWSWOMAN: Meta is launching a new tool
for its virtual reality worlds
after users reported virtual groping
and other abusive behavior.
The personal boundary default setting
will allow users to feel like there's four feet of space
between them and others.
Meta says this will make it easier
to avoid unwanted interactions.
I mean, come on, in the virtual world, now?
NEWSMAN: It comes after a woman claims
she was verbally and sexually harassed
within a minute of joining a virtual game last year.
Yeah, look, people, none of this is surprising.
I mean, anytime a new technology has been invented,
it has quickly been used to harass people.
You know, right after man discovered fire,
creeps were probably like: Awesome!
Now I can show my dick to strangers at night.
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.
(crew laughter)
But still, the metaverse was not designed
for you to sexually harass others, okay?
It was designed to distract everyone
from Facebook's other scandals.
And what I don't understand is how Facebook couldn't weed out
these people before they get into the metaverse.
How are these people even getting into the metaverse?
Like, think about it, Facebook has information on everybody.
How come they can't tell who's an Internet pervert,
but then they can show me ads for crutches
three days before I get hit by a car, huh?
But obviously, this is really about the principle
of feeling safe and respected.
It's not actual sexual assault.
You know? No one in the metaverse
even has a butt to grab.
There's nothing below the waist.
That's why everyone in the metaverse
goes to the bathroom out of their mouth.
It's a really weird experience.
I actually feel like I know where this is going, though.
You know, they're gonna say: Well, we tried making avatars
without bottoms and that didn't work,
so maybe we should try one where nobody has tops, either.
It's gonna be just faces.
Like a book of faces.
Nothing can go wrong with that.
Be like: Wow, this is the future!
I actually have a controversial solution to this.
This is what I think Meta should do.
Meta should do nothing.
Yeah, I said it. Meta should do nothing.
Let sexual harassment run wild in the metaverse. Just do it.
'Cause think about it. If we can trap
all the sexual harassers in the metaverse,
we won't have to worry about sexual harassment
n the real world. Yeah.
All the creeps will be at home with their VR helmets
touching each other's cartoon nipples.
The rest of us will just interact with actual humans,
safe from sexual harassment.
It's a win-win. Huh? Huh?
It's a great idea. I mean, keep in mind
this isn't actually dangerous, you know?
You're not in a dark alley. You're in your living room.
And your dad's upstairs.
-Right? -Yeah.
You know? I mean, and how does this even happen?
Aren't the only people in the metaverse
-Facebook executives? Right? -(laughing)
It feels like it's the only ones
that has access to do this thing.
Now, keep in mind, Trevor, we have personal space rules
-in real life, too, and they get violated. -Yeah.
-That's true. -You know? You ever take the L Train
late at night? 10:00 p.m.?
You got to 69 somebody just to get in the car.
-So... We should approve that. -I...
I mean, I don't think it's a bad thing
-on the L Train. -No.
Granted, I'm always in, like, the preferable position
-in the 69. -Yeah.
Always say you want to be, like, head up.
Yeah, you... Yeah, you're the nine.
-I am. That's... -Yeah. Guess who's... guess who's the six.
Know what I'm saying?
Sometimes when we do this,
I feel like I'm the six right here.
(all laughing)
All right, all right, let's move on
to the big political news from over the weekend.
The Republican Party right now is, uh, more divided
than Kim Kardashian and Kanye West.
The big debate is between a small handful of conservatives
who think it is wrong to try and steal an election
versus the majority of Republicans
who say overthrowing democracy
is just "legitimate political discourse."
Well, now Mike Pence
has chosen a side.
NEWSWOMAN: The former Vice President Mike Pence
rebuked President Trump's insistence
that Pence could have rejected
the Electoral College results on January 6th.
President Trump said I had the right
to overturn the election.
President Trump is wrong.
And frankly, there is no idea more un-American
than the notion that any one person
could choose the American president.
Ooh, Mike Pence.
Standing up to Donald Trump. Hey, hey!
Look at my guy trying new things for the first time.
Next week, player's gonna be having sex with his eyes open.
But still, good for Pence. And it's gonna be fun
watching him endorse Trump for reelection in two years.
"He was right, I should have done it.
And next time, maybe I will."
Now, as-as part of the January 6th Committee's investigation,
it has been collecting documents from the Trump White House
to find out what people might have been saying
at the time of the insurrection.
And this has turned out to be harder than it should
for a couple of reasons.
For one, Donald Trump had a habit
of tearing up everything that he read.
Yeah. And not even to hide stuff.
Just anything he was done with, he'd just tear it up
and throw on the floor.
Probably his revenge on paper for making him read it.
And now we're finding out
that the stuff Trump didn't tear up,
he sometimes kept as souvenirs.
The National Archives had to head down to Mar-a-Lago
to take back some White House documents
former President Trump had apparently taken to Florida.
According to The Washington Post,
Trump improperly removed multiple boxes
-from the White House. -To be clear,
by law, all those records
should have been turned over to the National Archives
and Records Administration.
They say that this box mostly contained things like mementos,
you know, letters between world leaders
like, uh, leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-un, for example.
Aw, guys.
I can't believe that Trump saved Kim Jong-un's old love letters.
That's so romantic. And I-I get it.
I really do. I get it.
Like, a lot of people keep stuff that's sentimental.
Like I-I still keep my old letters from high school.
You know? I've got one here.
Really beautiful. Uh...
"Dear Trevor,
"I love you.
"You're like a brother to me.
"A sweet, sweet younger brother.
A real member of my family."
Ha-ha. Damn, she wanted me bad.
Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that his own letters
are the only thing that Trump took from the White House.
I'll-I'll be honest.
Like, when he got kicked out,
I thought he'd just stuff as much stuff
into his pockets as he could.
You know? Like, he'd get out there
and then White House security would shake him
and the bust of Frederick Douglass
would just fall out of his pants.
He'd be like, "I don't know who that is,
"but I'm learning more and more about him every day.
"Fantastic guy.
"I think we would have gotten along great.
So great."
If these pictures were in Korean, it's possible
Trump thought that Eric had just drawn him a picture.
-You know? -(laughs)
I think it's great that Pence,
-uh, stepped up to Trump. -Yeah.
Not that Trump probably even heard him,
'cause he's just in the metaverse harassing everybody.
-(laughs) -But Pence letting loose, I like this.
I heard he tried 2% milk for the first time as well.
-He's getting edgy. -He's getting edgy.
-He's getting real edgy. -He's getting edgy, yeah.
-You saw him there. He even paused for effect. -Yeah.
"Trump said I could do this.
-He was wrong." -Yeah. That was good.
-That was powerful. It was sexy. -That was good. That was good.
-Him and Mother tonight, they might even hug. -(laughing)
Yeah.
All right, that's it for the headlines.
When we come back, we're gonna be talking
about the new Joe Rogan scandal
that is rocking Spotify, so don't go away.
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
Let's talk about Joe Rogan,
the scariest thing to come out of the show Fear Factor.
After a week of scandal
surrounding his anti-vaccine podcast,
Joe Rogan is still in the news, which is rare in America.
I mean, in this country,
news cycles are here today, gone tomorrow.
Breaking news-- dinosaurs have come back from the dead
and are destroying cities around the globe.
All right, moving on.
Kim and Kanye are fighting again.
Now, if you remember, the whole reason
that Joe Rogan got into trouble in the first place
was because rock legend Neil Young said
that he refused to be on the same platform as Joe Rogan
if Joe Rogan was going to be spreading lies about vaccines.
So then, because of the backlash, Joe Rogan apologized.
And a lot of people were like, "Okay, okay.
We're moving in the right direction."
Even The Rock was like,
"Great job, Joe Rogan. Let's grab a drink."
But just before Joe Rogan could get that drink,
another musician, India.Arie...
♪ I am not my hair. ♪
Well, she put out her own video online saying
that there's a different reason that she doesn't want
to be on the same platform as Joe Rogan, and this was it.
I'm going to leave a short message here
about why I decided to...
why I decided to ask my music be pulled off of Spotify.
Spotify is built on the back of the music streaming.
So they take this money that's built from streaming,
and they pay this guy $100 million,
but they pay us .003% sent of a penny?
Just take me off.
I don't want to generate money that pays this.
This is why. Watch this.
You know, the "nigger" thing.
Yeah, saying the word "nigger."
I've... You've already said "nigger."
...D is just like "nigger." Saying "nigger."
She's calling you a nigger. It's like this...
Boy, that's a nigger.
Starts calling them "niggers."
Or nigger.
There should be a word like "nigger."
Especially the word "nigger."
That's our nigger.
About niggers. He says "nigger."
...guy a nigger. And there are niggers.
Starts saying "nigger." Allowed to use the word "nigger."
About the word "nigger." You'll see "nigger."
Or nigger. Say "nigger," and you couldn't say "nigger," and...
House nigger.
Whew!
That's a lot... of the "N" word.
And with the hard "e-r" as well, which is never a good thing.
If there's ever a video of you saying the "N" word
that many times, you better pray one of two things.
Either you're a Black person,
or you're a dead man from history.
Yeah, 'cause then, the worst they can do
is take your statue down and move it into a museum.
(gasps)
And as bad as it was seeing a supercut of Joe Rogan
dropping the "N" word like he bought it in bulk at Costco,
an even worse part of the video... I know.
Yeah, an even worse part of the video is when Joe Rogan,
again on his podcast, told a story about going to a movie
in a Black neighborhood, and this is what he said.
So I go, "You got to go to one where
there's Planet of the Apes, man."
We're gonna go see Planet of the Apes.
So I look on the iPhone app, and it says,
"Okay, take me to this one." And the guy goes, "Okay."
I go, "Is that in a good neighborhood?"
He's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."
Guy barely speaks English. He takes us there.
We get out, and we're giggling.
"Ooh, we're gonna go see Planet of the Apes."
-We walked into Planet of the Apes. -(laughs)
We walked into Africa, dude.
We-we walked in the door,
-and there was no white people. -(mumbling)
There was no white people.
Wow.
That video's so bad, it actually made me miss the "N" word video.
Ah, the good old days.
I mean, you walk into a cinema in a Black neighborhood,
and you call it Planet of the Apes?
Whew.
I mean, unless he means
he was blown away by the Black neighborhood's
cinematography and storytelling.
Although, I doubt it.
Anyway, because of this video, right, and India.Arie,
Joe Rogan was forced to make yet another stop
on his apology world tour.
And this one was a lot more, and I mean, a lot more apologetic
than his vaccine video.
I'm making this video to talk
about the most regretful and shameful thing
that I've ever had to talk about publicly.
There's a video that's out that's a compilation
of me saying the N-word.
It's a video that's made of clips taken out of context
of me of 12 years of conversations on my podcast,
and it's all smushed together, and it looks (bleep) horrible,
even to me.
Now, I know that to most people there is no context
where a white person is ever allowed to say that word,
never mind publicly on a podcast.
And I agree with that now. I haven't said it in years.
But for a long time, when I would bring that word up,
like, if it would come up in conversation,
instead of saying "the N-word," I would just say the word.
Like, that context was-- part of the clip
we were talking about Redd Foxx, how Redd Foxx said that word
on television in the 1970s and how times have changed
so much since then.
Or about how Richard Pryor used it as one of the titles
of one of his albums.
But for years I used it in that manner.
I never used it to be racist, because I'm not racist.
But whenever you're in a situation
where you have to say "I'm not racist,"
you (bleep) up.
And I clearly have (bleep) up.
Yeah, you can tell Joe Rogan knows he is in trouble.
Because in the vaccine video, if you remember it,
like, he's outside, he's enjoying a nice day.
Here, he was in the library.
He's like: Look, I'm learning. See the books?
I'm learning.
This shit is serious.
And you can tell it's serious, you can tell
because he's like: Guys,
my brain used to think a certain way.
It does not think that way anymore at all.
I disavow that man. I disavow him.
You know what this kind of reminds me of?
It kind of reminds me of when my mom used to get the belt,
and I was a little kid, and I'd be like:
Mommy, Mommy, old Trevor liked cookies.
But new Trevor does not think that way anymore.
New Trevor doesn't even know where the cookies are,
on the top shelf, and going forward,
I only want to eat vegetables, Mommy, please...
(crying, trembling)
Now, even though Rogan apologized,
this was strange, a lot of people were arguing
sort of against his apology, saying that the N-word
with context is totally fine for a white person to say. Yeah.
You know? And I understand what they're saying.
Like, you know, maybe you're a professor teaching history,
maybe you're a news anchor reporting on a story
about Joe Rogan,
maybe you're in a Quentin Tarantino movie,
and you have to use the N-word, because if you don't,
then the movie has no dialogue.
But...
but for the most part,
as a white person, you never need to use the N-word.
Right? Don't, like, need.
For example, I've gone this entire story
saying "the N-word," and everyone has understood
exactly what I've meant.
Right? Nobody's sitting at home going:
Nutella? Neanderthal?
Nelly Furtado?
Why is Trevor being so vague? What is the word?
In fact, here's a life hack for white people.
Saying the actual N-word puts you in unnecessary trouble.
Especially if you're not racist. It doesn't matter the context.
Because Black people don't have the time
to sit down and sort out
the racist who says the N-word 70 times
with the non-racist who says the N-word 70 times.
Black people are dealing with too much shit.
No, no, look, look at how I was using it.
No, dude, no one's got the time for that.
Just stop saying it or just be racist.
It's easier for everyone that way.
So look, I'm glad that Joe Rogan has gone: You know what?
I didn't need to use that word all those times.
Because people need to learn, and I'm glad that he has.
Right? So Joe Rogan is saying
that him using the word in context wasn't racist,
but it was ignorant and not cool. Okay, fine.
But don't forget, there's also the story
where Joe Rogan calls Black people "apes."
And so for that part of the apology,
Joe Rogan says this.
I did not nor would I ever say
that Black people are apes,
but it sure (bleep) sounded like that.
I was just saying there's a lot of Black people there.
But then I went on to talk
about what a positive experience it was
and how much fun it was
to go to see this movie in a Black neighborhood.
It wasn't a racist story, but it sounded terrible.
It's a (bleep) idiotic thing to say,
and I was just trying to be entertaining.
I certainly wasn't trying to be racist,
and I certainly would never want
to offend someone for entertainment
with something as stupid as racism.
All right, I'm-I'm not gonna lie.
I have a few issues with this part of the video.
First of all, he says he would never say Black people are apes,
but he said that.
He... That's literally what he said.
If you said you walked into a Black place
and it was Planet of the Apes, then you said that.
You said... You can't be like, "Oh, no, I didn't say..."
You did say it, which is racist, right?
And it's not just racist. Like, let's-let's be honest.
It's not just racist. That's, like, OG racism.
That's, like, like, the original old-school ra...
Like, that's on the Mount Rushmore of racism.
You know? "Black people are apes."
It's right next to burning crosses
and then, like, every Bugs Bunny cartoon from the 1940s.
What I found particularly illuminating
is-is when he says, "I wasn't being racist.
I was just being entertaining."
No, Joe, I think you were using racism
to be entertaining.
You understand what I'm saying? I'm not saying
you were trying to offend Black people, by the way.
But you knew that offending Black people would get a laugh
out of those white friends that you're with.
And please understand this. Understand this, guys.
I'm a comedian. Right?
Which you would know if I had a live audience right now.
Yeah. They would be like...
(laughing): "Trevor, you're the greatest of all time."
Yeah. But I am a comedian,
and I love making jokes, and I love hearing jokes,
and I love... I love all kinds of jokes, all right?
I love safe jokes. I like dark jokes.
I like jokes.
But just because something is a joke
doesn't mean it can't be something else, as well.
Because a joke can be racist.
All right? In fact, a joke can be racist and funny
if you're telling it to the right crowd.
There's no joke where somebody... "It's never funny."
Yeah, someone can find it funny.
But the laughs don't mean that there's no racism.
Think of it this way. Think of it this way.
If I rob a bank and I get busted,
I can't defend myself by saying,
"No, guys, I did it as a joke."
"Yeah, but you pistol-whipped the bank teller."
"Yeah, but I made a funny sound when I did it.
"I was like..." (imitates boinging)
"'Give me the money, bitch.'
So, do I get to go now?"
So, yeah, Joe Rogan is saying
that he would never say something racist.
And now, because of that, after seeing the video,
a lot of his fans are like,
"Yeah, he would never say something racist.
"It's just a joke. You guys are uptight.
He would never say something racist. The joke is not racist."
And you know what? I-I can have my opinion,
and you can have your opinion. Fine.
But you know whose opinion
I think matters more than most people
is Joe Rogan.
And here's what Joe Rogan said about his joke
when he said it.
We walk into Planet of the Apes.
-(laughing) -We walked into Africa, dude.
We-we walked in the door,
-and there was no white people. -Ayo!
There was no white people.
We... Planet of the Apes didn't take place in Africa.
That was a racist thing for me to say.
Yeah, exactly!
It is a racist thing for you to say.
You say it's racist. But then in the video,
you're gonna be like, "Oh, it wasn't-wasn't racist."
Joe Rogan said a racist thing
and them immediately acknowledged that it was racist.
Literally when he said it. He said it,
and then he's like, "Well, that was racist."
And then now he's like, "I'd never say a racist..."
Like, this whole thing makes me go like,
why are people so adamant that it wasn't racist?
Why... Like, why do people...
People do a thing that's racist,
and then they go like, "No, it's not racist."
Can I be honest with you? Honestly, I'm not a scholar.
I'm not, like... Whatever. This is my opinion.
I think it's because people are just truly petrified
of having the label "racist" branded on them for life.
That's what people are really afraid of.
No one wants to be called a racist
'cause then they're like, "How long am I a racist for?
"Does it... Like, am I racist for life?
"Am I racist... I can't get jobs?
"Am I ra... No, no, I just want to be racist,
but I don't want to be called a racist."
Which is understandable.
But it also makes people unable to admit
when they say or do something racist. Right?
They would rather die on the hill of them not being racist
even if it means giving convoluted excuses
that don't make any sense.
So, anyway, after all those videos come out,
Joe Rogan got into even more hot water.
Yeah. More artists spoke out.
The Rock pulled his support.
And now, because of that,
more of his podcast videos are coming under scrutiny.
Right? There's a video where Rogan is promoting
the Proud Boys.
Uh, there's-there's videos
where he's laughing about, like,
female comedians being forced to perform sexual favors
in exchange for stage time.
Like, the videos, they're horrible
and they just keep coming.
And if there's something you-you shouldn't have said in public,
basically, Rogan has said it on his podcast,
which, as you can imagine, is a pretty big problem for Spotify.
Because now they own $100 million worth of problems.
So, this weekend,
after dealing with all the episodes
with vaccine information,
Spotify was now scrambling
to take down all the offensive episodes that they could find.
In fact, I-I think we have some footage
of Spotify headquarters over the weekend.
-(alarm wailing) -We are taking heavy fire!
I need you to delete those podcasts.
We're deleting them as fast as we can.
We're still getting backlash from the vaccines.
-I can't make it stop. -New reports of misogyny
are popping up everywhere.
Sir, incoming Planet of the Apes story!
♪ ♪
Those bastards never stood a chance.
No, but, for real though, Spotify is having
a-a hell of a time navigating the situation.
Um, and you can tell,
like, how tough this is from the response of their CEO.
NEWSWOMAN: Spotify and its CEO Daniel Ek
responding to the latest controversy
around The Joe Rogan Experience.
In a memo to staff, Ek said...
Ek adding he does not believe silencing Rogan is the answer.
NEWSMAN: Ek said he is committing $100 million,
the same amount as Rogan's reported contract,
to license, develop and market audio content
from creators from historically marginalized groups.
Aw, man.
You got to feel bad for Spotify.
You know? They just want to be a company
that screws over musicians.
And now they got to deal with racism? Ah!
They just can't catch a break.
But, yeah, Spotify will spend
Joe Rogan's exact salary
on amplifying the voices of marginalized groups.
That's what they say they're gonna do.
Which I guess is supposed to make them look good,
but it's also kind of an admission
that Rogan's podcast is bad for those groups, right?
Like, otherwise, you wouldn't need to balance him out.
Does that make sense?
Like, there's a reason that Spotify has never been forced
to give $100 million to marginalized groups
because of This American Life.
I mean, whipping out your checkbook is the classic sign
that you know you (bleep)ed up.
It's not real accountability.
It's how rich dudes get out of car accidents
when they know that it was their fault.
You know? It's just like, "Wow, looks like
"I really wrecked you there. Ha.
"So, how much does a new kid cost these days?
"Ha-ha. Two million?
Three?" (laughing)
You see, that was a-- that was a dark joke.
And if I had an audience right now, they'd be like,
"Ha, why are you saying that about children, Trev? Boo!"
And Spotify can say that Rogan's comments
don't represent the company's values. You know?
That's what they said. They said, "These podcasts
do not represent Spotify's values."
But... (sighs) like, when companies say that,
I'm like, "Guys, clearly, the company's values
are making money."
Like-- And no shade, by the way.
Those are the values of every company.
You know? Part of me actually wishes
that Spotify would just drop the façade.
Just come out and be like, "We do not believe
"in silencing Joe Rogan,
"because he makes us money.
"But if, at some point, he ends up costing us money,
"then we will drop him.
Because money."
So...
is Joe Rogan a racist because he said these things?
I mean, people are gonna go back and forth forever on this.
You know, it-it almost made me think
maybe the question we should be asking is,
at what point is a person a racist?
Is it when they do a racist thing?
Or is it when they do many racist things?
Or is it-- is it about the severity of the racism?
And then how do you measure the severity of racism?
Truth is, everyone is gonna have their own answer.
You know? Spotify has chosen theirs.
And, as for Joe Rogan,
he says he's learned his lesson.
And I hope he has.
But I will say, if I were him,
I wouldn't walk into a cinema in a Black neighborhood
for a little while.
All right, when we come back,
the head of the EPA will be joining me on the show
to tell me where you're most likely to get cancer.
So stay tuned.
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
My guest tonight is Michael Regan,
the first Black male administrator
to lead the Environmental Protection Agency.
He's here to talk about his tour of Cancer Alley
and advancing environmental justice.
-Administrator Regan, welcome to The Daily Show. -Thank you.
-Glad to be here. -I'm glad to have you here,
you know, because, I mean, this is the environment.
We are all in the environment.
And you are now tasked with, um, I mean, essentially
making sure that we can breathe,
we can drink water and we can live.
-I feel like your life sort of set you up for this. -Yeah.
Because if my research is correct, you grew up, um,
was it with a type of asthma?
Yeah, a type of respiratory illness where any time
there was an ozone action day or a lot of pollution,
-I-I'd struggle. -Uh-huh. Wow.
And that was really a setback for me because I grew up hunting
-and fishing with my father and grandfather. -Uh-huh.
So being outdoors meant everything to me
because it was a cultural experience,
learning from them and being with them,
and any moment that I missed being with them,
I was in the house because I was on that inhaler,
or worried about some pollution.
-Right, right, right. I feel like that's a... -Yeah.
-It's an origin story. That's what it is. -Yeah. Yeah, well...
You know, it's like the pollution affected your ability
to have fun with your family, and you're, like,
-"I'm gonna get you, pollution!" -(laughing)
And look at you now-- administrator of the EPA.
Unfortunately, we learn every day
about communities around America where they don't have water
that is not polluted by industries
that are up the road or up the stream.
Because of the color of their skin, nobody cares.
I mean, you read the history of America.
Every single time people plan where to put a factory
or how the factory will affect the neighborhood,
-it's never in a rich neighborhood. -Yeah.
It's never in a nice neighborhood.
It's always in a place where the people there
have the least access to power to oppose that.
How does the EPA step in, and how do you...
how do you change things like Cancer Alley,
which is insane to even have as a name in a country?
It is, and everything I do at EPA
is through the lens of environmental justice.
Contracting, procurement,
air quality, water quality, land management
starts with: are we protecting the least amongst us,
those who have lacked political representation
-Mm-hmm. -and those who have not been at the table for decades?
And to your point, systemic racism is by design,
and the environment is no different
than policing or, you know, incarceration
-Mm-hmm. -or housing.
And so this administration has an "all of the above,"
"all of government" approach.
So as I think about lead and the eradication of lead
in this country, I'm partnering with the secretary of housing,
-I see. -who is thinking about lead paint
while I'm thinking about water.
This is about making sure that we protect all people.
And I'm excited to be on this team.
-I'll be honest with you. -Here's the dilemma, though.
You have a wonderful outlook.
You want to do things.
-The counter is always money. -Hmm.
Money and the interests of monies.
So you say: I want to protect this land.
I want to protect this stream.
Money says: Oh, we want to turn that into,
like, an oil pipeline, or we want to do something
with this land where we're going to destroy the vegetation
but also, but create jobs and money.
How do you manage that as the head of the EPA,
knowing full well that the people with money
are gonna put pressure on your bosses to say, like,
"No, no, no, no, too much environment, we need money."
Oh, yeah, money is absolutely both a blessing and a curse.
And here's the reality. We are convinced
that you have to choose between jobs,
economic prosperity and development
and protecting people and the planet, and you don't.
It requires all levels of government
working with communities to determine what's best
and how to do it.
And the thing circling back to environmental justice,
you don't have to put every refinery
and every pipeline in every Black and brown neighborhood
or cutting across every tribal community or reservation.
There are ways to think about how we do economic development
and create jobs in a way that don't overly burden
-certain communities. -Mm.
And by the way, when we think about climate change
and clean energy,
this is about taking advantage of the future.
Our economy and society is evolving.
Clean energy, clean opportunities
create opportunities for jobs and economic development.
-Right. -So it makes this country
more globally competitive
if we get the jump on countries like China,
India and others
to deploy these practices at home.
And by the way, deploy them at home,
and if we start with the most polluted areas,
we will be starting with the people who can... who can...
who are the least amongst us and can handle
these disproportionate pollution impacts.
So start there, protect those people,
create jobs in those communities,
move forward to a clean energy economy
and continue to be globally dominant.
That's the way we should be thinking about this.
Many people like the idea of clean energy.
-Mm-hmm. -Changing to the clean energy
seems like that's gonna be the biggest hurdle of all.
You know, I love clean energy,
but I also know that we won't be able
to wean ourselves off of coal tomorrow.
We won't be able to not... to stop using oil tomorrow
not just because of our need
but also because of the energy...
uh, the people who work in those industries.
-Mm-hmm. -What do you think a realistic outlook is?
-You want to keep moving forward. -Right.
But you don't want to be in a place where all of a sudden,
you cut off your nose to spite your face.
So how do you find that balance of progress
whilst also not alienating what we do today?
I mean, this is why I have conversations
with the secretary of the Department of Defense,
Labor, Commerce, uh, Energy.
It takes, uh, planning across government.
The reality is is at one point in time,
people liked their rotary phones.
And then all of a sudden, we had iPhones.
If we create platforms,
technology will move to those platforms
-and drive society forward. -Mmm.
If we can have an electric grid that's just as smart as the web
and we can put clean energy apps
-on this platform... -Oh, that's interesting.
...then you get society moving forward.
-And, by the way... -So you're-- If--
Sorry to interrupt you. You're almost saying
w-we're still in, like, the dumb energy phase
-of how we use electricity and how we-- how we... -Absolutely.
...how we route it around a town or around a city, a country.
Absolutely. And if we want to take advantage
of society moving forward,
we all know we have to master technologies
-and we have to do it before other countries do it. -Mm-hmm.
So, again, this is just as much about national security
as it is about saving the planet and creating jobs.
The question is, do we not take these opportunities
because of political rhetoric?
Why should we not move forward and create new jobs
and participate in global competitiveness
and let technologies make life for us smarter and easier
because we want to hold on to the past?
That's where moneyed interests really do hamstring
Americans moving forward and hamstrings national security.
-Right, right, right. -We should not be tied to the old way
just because a lot of people were influenced
or making money through the old mechanisms.
You know what, your enthusiasm is infectious.
Uh, I don't know if you can ever remove politics
from anything in America, but, uh, good luck in trying.
-Thank you so much for joining me on the show. -Thank you.
Wonderful having you here.
All right, thank you so much again to Administrator Regan.
We're gonna take a quick break,
but we'll be right back after this.
Take the politics out. That's... all of it.
-Right. -Everything in America.
Well, that's our show for tonight. But before we go,
please consider supporting Young, Black & Lit.
They're an organization that sources and distributes
new books featuring Black main characters
to elementary and middle schools at no cost.
So if you want to support them in their work promoting access
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of Black children, then please donate at the link below.
Until tomorrow, stay safe out there, get your vaccine
and, remember, if Spotify offers you $100 million,
don't take it.
It's just not worth it.
Now here it is, Your Moment of Zen.
Joe Rogan just said Black people are apes.
You can't sit there and say,
"I went to a Black neighborhood on my iPhone app
and they-- and I was in Planet of the Apes,"
saying Black people are apes.
Quite frankly, I am like an ape.
I can pull somebody's head off.
I've got ape-like strength.
I'm King Kong, baby.
I'm not ashamed of my simian nature.
But you can't sit there
and pull crap like that
and say crap like that in a glass house
and s-- and-and basically s-- I mean, you heard him.
Geez. Geez.