Does anyone celebrate weddings here?
-MAN: Yes. -Yeah?
Uh, there's a couple online that's getting a lot of flak
because they got married in the metaverse.
And everybody's roasting them.
They're like, "Oh, this is so stupid.
Why'd you get mar..." I think this is the future,
and I think we finally found a reason for the metaverse.
I hope all weddings are in the metaverse.
Yeah, I'm sick and tired of having to go somewhere
because you feel like your relationship
is a destination wedding.
Your relationship's going to hell.
I've got to travel for it.
I don't want to be a part of that shit.
It would be so much better
if I could just on my VR goggles at home.
In fact, I don't even have to put the...
I can I put them on and be like, "I'm here."
Then put the headset on a dog,
and then it just, like, runs around.
And then at the wedding,
Trevor's just, like, running around.
And everyone's like, "Wow, he was so sociable.
"I mean, he was humping people's legs,
but man, he was... he was into it."
You know? Why... Like, weddings, it's, like, so much work.
Like, it should.... The whole thing
should be in the metaverse from now on.
You go there. It costs nobody money.
You can be anywhere you want to be. Huh?
As guests, we can also bring virtual gifts,
You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Then you're like, "Aah, this gift is not real."
Man, neither is your love. Don't worry about my gift.
Your shit will be over soon,
and then you'll forget about this toaster.
You know what I'm saying?
I just feel like it's, uh, it's good.
Just do the whole thing. Everybody put on our headsets,
we go to weddings, we have a good time,
and then we're already at home.
How much fun is that?
Metaverse weddings for the win, baby.
ANNOUNCER: Coming to you from the heart of Times Square
in New York City, the only city in America,
it's The Daily Show.
Tonight, meet Lauren Boebert,
Jordan Klepper talks vaccines,
and Nikole Hannah-Jones.
This is The Daily Show with Trevor Noah.
Hey, what's going on, everybody?
Welcome to The Daily Show. I'm Trevor Noah.
Let's jump straight into today's headlines.
♪ ♪
We kick things off with the breaking news from the moon,
that pervert that keeps looking into my windows at night.
For centuries, humans have thought
that the moon is as barren and empty
as Chris Cuomo's work schedule,
but that might all be about to change.
NEWSMAN: China's moon rover has spotted a mystery object
on the horizon while working its way across a crater
on the far side of the moon.
In this photo, it's about 260 feet away,
and you can see what looks like right angles on a square object.
The rover is expected to spend the next two to three months
trying to get closer.
The cube-shaped object was described in Chinese
as "a mystery hut."
Uh, no.
Hell, no.
Anything called a mystery hut, you better stay away from.
I mean, best-case scenario,
it's a pizza place that picks the toppings for you.
But most likely, you're just gonna get molested.
And by the way, what-what was that... what was that about?
Did you hear that, where they said it's gonna take
two to three months to reach the mystery hut
that's 260 feet away?
Wh-What did they send up there, a DoorDash driver?
"Oh, he's got to complete deliveries
on other planets first, and then he'll be right there."
Here's an idea. Here's an idea.
What if...
we leave the mystery hut alone?
I mean, I'm just saying,
between a pandemic and climate change,
maybe now's not a great time to risk opening up
an ancient box that we found on the moon.
I mean, chances are
it's probably just gonna be a boulder or something,
'cause let's be honest, the moon is boring.
You know, it should be this incredible thing,
but whenever we get news from space scientists,
it always feels like we're hanging out
with, like, a... like, a toddler.
"I found a 'wock.'"
"Wow. Well done, scientist."
"I found a bigger 'wock.'"
"Jesus Christ. Well done, scientist."
(exhales)
But let's move on from the least inhabited place
to the most: New York City.
The holidays are a great time of year here in New York.
The store windows are decorated.
The Rockettes are performing.
And if you're really lucky, a beautiful snowfall
will trap all of the dog poop and garbage on the street
for three months, after which it'll thaw
and fill the air with the sweet smells of spring.
But apparently, not every New Yorker
has the holiday spirit, because last night,
someone set fire
to the 50-foot Christmas tree outside the Fox News studios.
And it's not clear how this happened.
I mean, it could be an accident.
Could be arson.
"Could be Santifa."
It's not clear.
And unfortunately, we can't ask the tree,
because like all Fox employees, it had to sign an NDA.
But for the network that invented the war on Christmas,
this turned out to be the best gift
that they could've asked for.
KILMEADE: I think it tells the bigger story.
I mean, since-- This is--
-This city is so out of control. -EARHARDT: So out of control.
KILMEADE: Especially in Midtown Manhattan. You-- We...
EARHARDT: The city we used to love.
It goes to the larger issue of safety.
And we have been talking for a very long time.
This city has gone south when it comes to safety.
We don't feel safe when we come to work in the morning.
We don't safe when-- feel safe when we go home at night.
Think about it. Who, to answer his earlier point,
who sets a Christmas tree on fire?
It's a-- it's a tree that unites us,
that brings us together.
It's about the Christmas spirit.
It is about the holiday season.
Uh, it's about Jesus.
It's about Hanukkah.
It is about everything that we stand for as a country.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. (chuckles)
Wait, wait. Wait.
A Christmas tree represents a lot of things,
but one thing it definitely does not represent is Hanukkah.
I mean, if it did,
that tree would have had to burn for eight days.
Come on, people.
I mean, that's a weird thing for anyone to say,
but especially Fox News.
'Cause these are the guys who spent 15 years insisting
that we have to say "Merry Christmas"
instead of "Happy holidays."
And now, all of a sudden, the Christmas tree is half-Jewish?
"It's all about the holidays! Oh, the holidays."
And, honestly, even calling this thing a tree is such a stretch.
'Cause I don't know if you saw this-- once the flames went out,
it turns out that this thing was just, like, scaffolding
covered in pine needles.
I'm sorry, but that's not a tree.
That's just a jungle gym with a body hair problem.
But I will say this--
I agree with Fox News' hosts.
They're totally right, people.
The crime in New York has gotten out of control.
The city is a war zone.
Blood and death is on every corner.
The rats have joined gangs!
Everybody needs to leave.
So that my rent can go down
and I can finally find some space on the subway.
But mostly because it's not safe!
And there's murdered rats.
The poor rats have been murdered.
S-Sorry, wait, they're murdering.
Whatever brings down my rent, guys.
That's what's happening in New York.
All right, and, finally, a story out of Finland,
the country in a throuple with Norway and Sweden.
Finland has one of the youngest prime ministers in the world,
36-year-old Sanna Marin,
and that comes with all sorts of challenges.
For instance, last weekend,
officials tried to text Marin
to let her know that she had been exposed to COVID
and needed to isolate.
But she didn't get the message right away because-- get this--
she was out at a club until 4:00 a.m.
Yeah. Which, if you ask me, is pretty baller,
I mean, especially in Finland, 'cause they only get, like,
one hour of sunlight a day.
That means she's probably gonna sleep through that, right?
And people were angry. People were angry
that she didn't have her phone with her.
But, I mean, it would have been worse
if she'd gotten the message while she was at the club.
-(loud dance music playing) -"Oh, shit!
I might have COVID!"
"What? I can't hear you.
"Cup your hands over your mouth
and scream directly into my face!"
But, guys, I can also understand
why she wouldn't be checking her messages, because, come on,
how hard can it be to run Finland?
The biggest debate in that country is deciding
what temperature to set the saunas at.
What's their stress?
You know, this scandal actually just proves
why America's right though to only elect old people.
They'll never have this issue.
The only reason Joe Biden would be awake at 4:00 a.m.
is to pee.
That makes me feel safe.
But let's move on to our top story.
All year, Republicans in Congress have been acting out.
Marjorie Taylor Greene compared mask mandates to the Holocaust.
Paul Gosar chopped off AOC's head in an anime video.
And Mitt Romney, well,
he went through that sexy goth phase.
And now Colorado's Lauren Boebert
is under fire for a little stand-up routine
that she's been doing about Ilhan Omar.
There has still been no condemnation
from Republican leaders
after GOP Congresswoman Lauren Boebert
made an Islamophobic comment
about one of her Democratic colleagues in a new video.
NEWSWOMAN: Congresswoman Lauren Boebert
making an Islamophobic suicide bomber joke
about being in an elevator with Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.
-I look to my left and there she is. -MAN: Oh, no.
-Ilhan Omar. -(chuckling) -MAN 2: Whoops.
And I said, "Well, she doesn't have a backpack.
We should be fine."
NEWSWOMAN: Suggesting she was concerned
Omar would blow up the elevator.
So, we only had one floor to go and I was like,
"Eh, should I say it or not?" I looked over.
And I said, "Oh, look.
The Jihad Squad decided to show up for work today."
Wow. You know, for something that offensive,
that was one of the most boring stories I've ever heard.
'Cause you realize, basically, she was like,
"So I'm on an elevator with a brown person,
"and the whole time, I'm having racist thoughts.
The end."
Now if you're familiar with Lauren Boebert,
hearing that she made some Islamophobic jokes
about a fellow congressperson-- that won't come
as too much of a surprise for you,
because Boebert, like Marjorie Taylor Greene
or Madison Cawthorn or countless other Republicans--
they are like the crazy little spawn
that Donald Trump gave birth to right before he left town.
But if you don't know who Lauren Boebert is,
well, you're about to find out
in another installment of Fringe-Watching.
♪ ♪
In less than a year,
Lauren Boebert has made a name for herself
as one of Congress's preeminent nut jobs.
But before she could get to D.C.,
she had to win over the voters
of her conservative Colorado district.
And props to her because she knew just how to do it.
NEWSMAN: Republican Lauren Boebert
pulled off a stunning upset by taking down
five-term congressman Scott Tipton.
And her path to victory was straight out
of the far right playbook.
NEWSWOMAN: In May, her restaurant
refused to close down during the COVID-19 pandemic,
even after a cease-and-desist order,
until her license was temporarily suspended.
And we don't want to be restricted
by these, uh, arbitrary...
orders in place by our governor who thinks that he's a king.
Lauren Boebert is the third, uh, candidate this cycle
that we've seen on the Republican side
who has spoken approvingly of QAnon,
this conspiracy theory,
who actually emerged on top in her primary.
Honestly, um, everything that I've heard of Q,
I hope that... I hope that this is real
because it only means
-America is getting stronger and better... -Yup.
and people are returning to conservative values.
Yeah, that's right. QAnon is a return to Qonservative values.
I mean, we all remember
Ronald Reagan's famous speech in Berlin.
Mr. Gorbachev, Tom Hanks, costar of Bosom Buddies,
drinks baby blood.
(applause)
Powerful stuff, man. Powerful stuff.
I remember that day.
Now to be fair to Boebert, that's what she was saying
about QAnon before her Republican primary.
Because you see, six days after she won her primary,
she clarified that she is not a follower of QAnon
and had been purposefully vague about it earlier.
So, she isn't necessarily insane,
just willing to say anything to win the votes
of insane people, which, in a way, is much worse.
On the other hand, though, there is a conspiracy theory
that Boebert has fully embraced,
and this, she's embraced with all her heart,
and that is that the 2020 election was stolen
from Donald J. Trump.
And on January 6, she was busy riling up her fellow believers.
One of Congress's newest faces is already facing calls
for her resignation just a few days into her term.
I have constituents outside this building right now.
NEWSWOMAN 2: Less than a half hour
before the Capitol came under siege...
They know that this election is not right!
NEWSWOMAN 2: ...one of the newest Republican House members,
34-year-old Lauren Boebert of Colorado,
was on the House floor fanning the flames of the insurrection.
I will not allow the people to be ignored!
NEWSWOMAN 2: She spent the morning tweeting,
"Today is 1776," and promising to
"fight with everything I have
to ensure the fairness of the election."
During the insurrection, she used her Twitter account
to announce to the public, and thereby,
any insurrectionists who might look,
that Speaker Pelosi had been removed from chambers.
Okay, okay, Okay, I know that sounds bad,
but let's not jump to conclusions.
Like, maybe she wasn't trying to say,
"Nancy Pelosi is getting away! Go get her!"
You know, maybe it was more like,
"Oh, great. Nancy Pelosi got away.
You blew it, dipshits."
After the riots, Boebert released a statement
denouncing the violence, but, I mean, she was the one
telling everyone it was 1776.
Which only means one thing.
Like, I'm not an expert in American history,
but I'm pretty sure that the colonists
didn't overthrow Britain with a Change.org petition.
Those dudes were killing each other... in funny wigs.
You know how violent you have to be to put on a funny wig
and then stab somebody? That's next level violent.
But Boebert's true passion isn't Qanon,
or overthrowing the government, or even casual Islamophobia.
No. what really gets her going is the Second Amendment.
And I know you're thinking,
"Yeah, there's a lot of people who like guns."
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm telling you now, that Lauren Boebert--
she makes all of them look like Gandhi.
This is Lauren Boebert. She's a congresswoman from Colorado.
She was at a hearing, and she...
her background on her Zoom is a whole bunch of guns.
Republican congresswoman Lauren Boebert
decided to copy one of her Republican colleagues,
and she posted a photo of herself
with her children-- you know, some of them rather young here--
holding what appear to be semiautomatic rifles
in front of their Christmas tree.
On the day she was sworn in, she released this flashy video...
...declaring she'll be bringing her nine-millimeter Glock
to the halls of Congress and streets of D.C.
It's our job in Congress to defend your rights,
including your Second Amendment,
and that's exactly what I'm here to do.
NEWSWOMAN: Boebert has attracted national attention for a while.
She owns Shooter's Grill
in her hometown of Rifle, Colorado,
a gun-themed restaurant where she encourages her employees
to be armed.
WOMAN: I'm guessing you haven't had any sort of altercations
or any attempted robbers or anything like that
since the girls started packing heat.
No, we have had no altercations like that,
nothing physical, and no one has certainly tried to rob us.
Unless you count our salt shakers.
Those get taken often.
(mock chuckling)
That's right, Lauren Boebert owns a restaurant
where all the waitresses are strapped.
Which also makes it the only restaurant in America
where nobody asks to split the check five ways.
No, I'll just pay, thank you.
And look, I don't know if I want to eat at a restaurant
where everybody's armed.
I mean, it's a fun gimmick, but you realize
the second someone drops a plate,
that place is turning into a Tarantino movie.
I mean, it's still a restaurant, so you can't have bare feet,
but otherwise, it's a Tarantino movie.
But clearly, this person has an unhealthy fixation with guns.
Forget Congress, she's not qualified to serve
as an interior decorator.
You know what this bed needs? A pile of guns.
And let's zhuzh up this bathroom with another pile of guns.
And you know what? Instead of a kitchen,
just guns.
But that's Boebert. She's probably the first person ever
to try and register an emotional support Glock.
And it really makes me wonder why.
Like, why is the Second Amendment
the only amendment that politicians are obsessed with?
I mean, like, obsessed with!
Like, just once, I want to see a politician
who's all about the Third Amendment.
You know? Just stomping through a campaign commercial like:
Send me to Washington, and I'll make sure a soldier
in peacetime is never quartered in your house!
Use Airbnb, and let me be! Yeah!
But look, I'm sure Boebert is as safe and careful as possible
when she's hanging AR-15s on the Christmas tree.
Or at least she's more careful with that
than she is with campaign finance laws.
NEWSMAN: In August, news broke that Boebert did not disclose
almost a half million dollars her husband made
in the energy industry.
Ethics and campaign finance laws require candidates
and members of Congress to disclose
how immediate family members make money
so voters know about potential conflicts of interest.
Now we have learned that Boebert paid rent
and utility bills for her restaurant
with campaign funds, which is very much in violation
of federal campaign finance laws
the new filings of the Federal Election Commission show.
And this is not the first time
Boebert has misused campaign funds.
In February, the Denver Post reported
Boebert paid herself more than $22,000
in mileage reimbursements for her campaign account last year.
To justify those reimbursements, Boebert would have had to drive,
get this, 38,712 miles while campaigning,
despite having no publicly advertised campaign events
in March, April, July, and only one in May.
After questions were raised, Boebert amended her filing,
subtracting 7,000 miles from her claim.
So she miscalculated by 7,000 miles?
The only other time that happens is after you make a wrong turn
using Google Maps.
Recalculating. New distance: 7,000 miles.
You will arrive at your destination in the year 2183.
'Cause that's a lot of shady campaign finance stuff,
after just one campaign.
One.
I mean, I guess this is the swagger of someone
who owns that many guns.
I mean, the FEC probably had a Zoom meeting with her,
and then they saw her background.
What were they gonna say?
Hey, man, what's a few thousand miles?
Let's just be cool. Let's be cool, lady.
Yeah, log me out, log me out.
So, that's Lauren Boebert,
law-breaking conspiracy theorist,
gun enthusiast and insurrectionist.
In other words, if you see her get on an elevator,
maybe you should take the stairs.
All right, when we come back, Jordan Klepper
goes head to head with antivaxxers.
You don't want to miss it.
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
As vaccine mandates are spreading around the country,
anti-vaccine protests are, too,
including in some areas you might not expect.
We sent Jordan Klepper to investigate
for another episode
of Jordan Klepper Fingers the Pulse.
♪ ♪
KLEPPER: The discussion around vaccines and mandates
tends to pit red state versus blue.
But I had heard
there was vaccine hesitancy and misinformation
in the elitist of the elite blue corners of the U.S.
So I headed to a protest in sunny Southern California.
I came to California curious
if the anti-vax mandate crowd would talk to me.
Then I realized I brought a camera,
and we're in Southern California.
I think I'll be fine.
Is this an anti-vaccination...
It is not an anti-vax, so don't go there.
-Don't go there. -Please don't.
-Are you vaccinated? -I am not.
So you're anti-vax?
I do not want to get the vaccination for COVID.
-What do you support? -Um, people's freedom of choice.
Don't you benefit from a society
that supports that by getting vaccinated?
You shouldn't be able to force that stuff on people.
It's step one. Then it'll be step two.
-Step three. -What's step two?
Uh, who knows?
I-I'm not a conspiracy theorist here, so I don't...
Didn't we have step one with polio?
They didn't really mandate that. The people were docile
back in the... in the industrious age.
They were more willing to take the shot.
Polio's mandated for students going to school.
Polio has to be because we know what it's done.
Don't we know what COVID's done?
Uh...
I mean, there's 750,000 people who have a pretty good idea.
Dig it.
Do you trust the vaccine whatsoever?
Zero. Like, zero percent.
-Mm-hmm. -And because I know
what the-the end run... the end goal is...
What's the end goal?
Bill Gates said in the 2015,
if we can get all these health things, vaccination,
we can reduce the population by ten to 15%.
What's 15% of seven billion?
That's a billion people.
The vaccine is all about depopulation.
-They've said that. -So this is just Bill Gates' pet project
to depopulate the globe?
He's probably a puppet of the people above him.
Which are who?
No-no clue.
It's a big claim to say there is a giant plan
to kill half the population
and not have a Thanos to point to.
So why does the conversation on this So Cal boardwalk
sound like a Shoney's in Lancaster, PA?
I talked to Derek Beres,
who's been tracking this coastal elite
anti-vax movement for years.
You've had a long anti-vaccine, uh, sentiment here.
Specifically, in 2017, there was a measles outbreak
right over there in Brentwood and Santa Monica,
where an eradicated disease in America
sprung up again.
This idea of bodily sovereignty
has really come about since the pandemic.
But that has been taught for decades
inside of yoga studios in America.
"Bodily sovereignty" sounds a lot like
what I told my parents I was doing freshman year
-of high school. -You have pretty liberal parents then.
Yeah. "This is my body! I can do what I want with it
"as often as I want to do,
wherever I want, in the living room."
-You're still here. -People hear about anti-vax
and they think MAGA world.
But now we're seeing this wellness,
which we see may be more to the left.
The Center for Countering Digital Hate identified
12 practitioners in the wellness space
that were responsible for something like 70%
of the vaccine disinformation on social media.
KLEPPER: Turns out ignoring the advice of the medical experts
and sacrificing the health of the community at large
could actually be quite profitable
for the wellness business.
Everyone knows about ivermectin
and hydroxychloroquine at this moment.
The idea that that could help.
You have, uh, meditations that are sold
that are supposed to ward off COVID.
You also have different breathing techniques.
Some practitioners, including here in Los Angeles,
teach breathing workshops,
because COVID is a respiratory illness.
And so their belief is, well, if you're breathing properly,
it won't actually affect you.
You can breathe your way out of COVID.
-Absolutely. -That's a class you can pay for here.
Yes. That is absolutely a class you can pay for.
So, like, how many smoothies does one have to ingest
to get to the point where they can completely disregard
the health of the community they live in?
-In Los Angeles, one. -Mm-hmm.
Uh, because they're usually $25.
I never knew there was that many parts of honey to ingest.
(chuckles) And the honey is blessed by a shaman from Tibet,
so you're paying for that as well.
You'll have to remember that.
KLEPPER: I wanted to talk to these people.
So I set up outside of the bougiest health food market
in Venice Beach,
and I also had a hankering
for an activated charcoal, bone broth,
rose hips smoothie cure-all.
-Are you vaccinated? -Uh... maybe.
No. (chuckles) I'm not.
-You're not. -No.
Are you fearful of catching COVID?
-No. -No?
I think that it's more about the lifestyle
versus, like, vaccinated, not vaccinated.
-Like... -What is the lifestyle?
Like, being healthy, like, taking care of yourself,
like, your mind, your body.
If you live a lifestyle of wellness, then,
your body should be able to handle COVID.
So what do you recommend for basic public health?
Eating healthy, um, boosting your immunity system,
and don't watch the news 'cause it's just brainwashing you
with fear, and the fear is lowering your frequency.
-I, um, only eat fish and only a certain kind of fish. -Mm-hmm.
Like, for example, I don't eat tuna,
and I actually found that out when I was trying
to feed tuna to my cat, and she shook her head and walked off.
Do you often take medical advice from a cat?
-General, from nature. -From nature.
What do you think of the COVID vaccine?
I don't think it's a vaccine.
I think it's snapping the DNA in half.
Where did you hear this? A Siamese cat?
You'd recommend for public health people meditating?
-Of course. -People working out in groups?
-Definitely. -Eating healthy?
-Definitely. -COVID vaccine?
-No. -No. A coffee enema?
-Possibly. -Okay, maybe on the coffee enema,
-definite hard "no" on the COVID vaccine? -No.
I'm not an anti-vaxxer per se.
I'm a staunch anti-mandate person.
-Can I ask, are you both vaccinated? -MAN: Sorry.
I don't want to put on-on... I just...
We don't want to put our status.
-You don't want to put a status? -No.
If you don't want to share your vaccine status, that's okay.
I'm vaccinated, and look how I look.
Don't judge me. I know everybody in L.A. is judging people.
I'm an L.A. five, a New York six and a D.C. 12.
-I can I tell. -KLEPPER: Cold, but fair.
Now what say you, dude?
I want to talk about wellness and public health.
And trust me, we'll get to your script later.
Can I ask you, are you vaccinated?
-I am. -Do you find that most people
in Los Angeles that you encounter are vaccinated?
-Like, I'm kind of a New Yorker. -Yeah?
And there, there's a sense of, like, civic duty.
There isn't so much of that here, to be totally honest.
It's more like, "Well, I had to get vaccinated
'cause I'm taking a trip to Tulum."
So if more Americans were dangled a trip to Tulum,
we might get that vaccination rate up in the 90s?
Maybe so, yeah.
KLEPPER: No matter what part of the antivax world
they come from, there's one comparison
they just can't resist making.
I think what's interesting, especially coming from Germany,
I think history is repeating itself right now.
What are you saying? That...
The vaccine mandate and everything,
it's like it's turning into a police state.
And you're equating that to World War II-era Germany?
Yes. "Where are your papers? Where are your papers?"
Very similar to the Hitler time.
But, like, Jewish people are fleeing Poland
because they can't get into gyms?
-Not funny. -But is that comparison, though...
You just didn't get the point. Sorry.
I'm good. Bye. (laughs)
KLEPPER: Maybe historical dramas aren't big in L.A.,
but certainly there is commercial viability
in saving humanity, right?
We're in L.A. Maybe there's an elevator pitch here, right?
So zoom in on a country at war with itself,
and then a magical cure comes along
that helps people take care of the rest of their community
by making a choice to help other people.
Would you buy that ticket?
-No. -No? Okay.
Thank you so much for that, Jordan.
All right, when we come back, Nikole Hannah-Jones
of the 1619 Project will be joining us on the show.
So stay tuned.
Welcome back to The Daily Show.
My guest is the Pulitzer award-winning journalist
and creator of the landmark 1619 Project,
Nikole Hannah-Jones.
She's here to talk about her new book
on America's legacy of slavery
and its impact on society today.
Nikole Hannah-Jones, welcome back to The Daily Show.
Thank you so much for having me back.
Um, a lot has happened in your life
since the last time we spoke.
You know, uh, you've won a Pulitzer Prize,
um, and you have also gone on to become one of, I would say,
the most polarizing lightning rods in the country
because of this work.
The 1619 Project,
which has become, for many conservatives,
the tool that they use
to scare people into voting for them
or changing how they're... things are taught in school
and, for many liberals,
has become the tool that people say needs to be used
to talk about what's happening in society today.
How do you feel about how people have received the Project?
Uh, I-I think how the Project has been received
has, uh, exceeded everything I could have imagined
in ways good and bad.
Uh, I certainly wouldn't have expected two years later
that, uh, so many Americans would be using 1619
as part of the national lexicon,
um, that it would be embraced, really, by everyone,
you know, across the spectrum
of race and-and class, uh, region.
But I also wouldn't have expected
that the teaching of the Project
would be banned in Georgia and Florida and Texas
and-and a growing number of states
or that it would become part
of, uh, kind of a political wedge issue
-for Republicans. -Right.
So, uh, it's all been unpredictable, I think.
Do you... do you think in-in the writing of this,
'cause I know that this is, um,
essentially an updated version of the Project.
You know, A New Origin Story: The 1619 Project
has, you know, a few essays in it
that have... that have been updated
or, rather, have been included now.
One that's definitely gonna, you know, stir emotions up again
is gonna be the conversation in and around reparations
that you argue for.
When you think of reparations... Two parts, maybe.
Why do you think reparations is important?
And secondly,
what do you think reparations should be?
Yeah, so, I think that reparations is important
because if we understand the system of slavery
and the system of, uh,
what you would call in South Africa racial apartheid,
what we call here very benignly Jim Crow,
fundamentally, these were systems
of economic exploitation.
We like to, in America, think of them as racist systems,
but the racism is to justify the exploitation
and the extraction of wealth from Black Americans.
So here we are, 60 years out of the civil rights movement,
and the wealth gap between Black and white Americans
has remained unchanged.
So the material disadvantage
that slavery and Jim Crow was created, uh, to produce
amongst Black Americans still exists.
And that's why I think reparations is necessary
not just for atonement but to actually, uh, alleviate
the primary suffering of Black Americans,
which is lack of wealth,
which has a direct, um, lineage
and a direct link to the systems of slavery
and then the 100 years of apartheid that followed.
And, uh, I think, you know, how it would work--
it has to be cash payments.
I think we have to really look at
the system of slavery was holistic.
The system of anti-Blackness was holistic.
It affected us through policy.
It affected us through income, through wealth,
through education, through housing.
So the fixes have to be holistic as well.
But something that we could do immediately that doesn't take,
you know, tens of-- you know, tens of years,
20, 30, 40 years, 50 years to fix is a wealth transfer.
That, that you can fix, uh, overnight.
A lot of Americans hear that and then they go,
"Oh, so I have to pay for slavery that I didn't do
and I wasn't physically a part of."
So when you say "wealth transfer,"
where is that actual wealth coming from?
Yes. One, it's-it's coming from the federal government.
So, we all pay tax dollars, uh,
to pay for a whole bunch of things that I don't agree with.
I could-- I could list many things that my taxes go to
that I didn't personally cause.
I haven't caused a single war in this country,
and yet I have had to pay taxes to pay for those wars.
So I think we as Americans have to understand
reparations is not being paid by white people.
It's being paid by the federal government whom we all pay into.
It's a collective debt, uh, that we collectively pay.
And, you know, when I hear that argument,
we're not even talking about reparations for slavery.
We're talking about reparations for that 100 years
where Black people out of slavery
were also denied through federal policy,
housing policy, education policy
the ability, uh, to gain wealth.
That's my father's generation.
We have living Americans right now who were kept
from going to the schools they wanted to,
from being able to go to college,
from being able to move into neighborhoods,
from being able to have federally-insured loans,
from being able to use the G.I. Bill.
You can make a case of reparations
without even having to go to slavery.
Let's talk a little bit about the schools.
You know, critical race theory has now been this catch-all term
that is used all over America
to argue for or against certain ideas.
One of the strangest things I've noticed is
that half of the people arguing against critical race theory
have no clue what critical race theory is for,
and then, some of the people arguing for it
also don't have an idea what it's for.
What do you think is the biggest part of The 1619 Project
that is misunderstood?
And so, if a parent is somewhere in the country saying,
"I've heard about this project.
"You want to teach white people that they're bad.
"That's what The 1619 Project is.
It's saying that America is just bad."
How would you respond to somebody who is willing,
let's say, willing to actually hear your argument?
What would you say to them that they misunderstand?
So one, I just think we should... we should acknowledge
that the whole critical race theory controversy
is a propaganda campaign, and it's been extremely effective.
Because a year ago, hardly anyone was talking
about critical race theory.
And certainly, most parents had never heard of the term.
Um, The 1619 Project is not critical race theory,
though certainly, it's been influenced
by critical race theory.
Which simply is saying,
60 years after the Civil Rights Movement,
when we ended legal discrimination,
why are Black Americans still disadvantaged
-in every aspect of American life? -Mm-hmm.
And it's actually antithetical to the belief
that individual white people are responsible.
It's actually saying it doesn't matter
if individual white people are racist or not.
The system was constructed on anti-Blackness,
and so, it functions on its own.
I don't actually think that's controversial.
So what I would say to the person who is open-minded,
uh, if you want to know what's in The 1619 Project,
try reading it. Let's start with that.
You know, everyone, uh, has formed these opinions
about our project, and it becomes very clear
early in the conversation
-that they actually haven't read it. -Right.
My main thing is, I just ask people
to read it and judge for themselves.
You know, Nikole, I love that you...
your idea is the one thing that is... (laughs)
antithetical to everything that's in society now.
"Please, um, inform your opinion before you have it"
is essentially what you... People don't do that anymore.
-Exactly. -You realize that, right?
Uh, so yeah, good luck to you with having people have opinions
on a book that they've actually read.
-Yes. -And if the people do actually read it.
I think they'll have some really interesting opinions either way.
-Yes, absolutely. Thank you. -Thank you so much
for joining me on the show.
The 1619 Project: A New Origin Story
is available wherever books are sold.
We're gonna take a quick break,
but we'll be right back after this.
Well, that's our show for tonight, but before we go--
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Until tomorrow, stay safe out there,
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Now here it is, Your Moment of Zen.
NEWSWOMAN: The latest shortage? Cream cheese.
Many bagel shops have just a few days' supply left.
(eerie music plays)
NEWSMAN: A schmear shortage.
A cream cheese crisis.
T-minus six days until they run out.
There is a cream cheese scare. Anarchy in the city.
What? You can't run out of those.
If that doesn't come, what happens?
Obviously, you have tofu cream cheese,
-which is, like, a soy-based cream cheese. -Oh!
No, you don't.
NEWSWOMAN: Some bagel shops say it's so bad,
you may have to settle for... butter?
-(screaming) -We're running out of cream cheese!
Thanks, Joe Biden.
Aw, damn you!
Goddamn you all to hell!