Kevin: Today on "This Old House"...
Hey there, I'm Kevin O'Connor,
and welcome to a brand-new episode of "This Old House,"
where we start a new project here in Glen Ridge, New Jersey.
And my chauffeur has just arrived.
♪♪
Man: Ahh, that's it.
♪♪
Kevin: Hey, pops. How are you?
Tom: I'm good, sonny. How are you doing?
Kevin: I'm doing all right. Thank you for picking me up.
Tom: My pleasure. I got to say, this is quite a town.
Kevin: You like it? Yeah. Tom: Love it.
Kevin: This is a terrific town. Glen Ridge. It's beautiful.
And one of the things about this town
is it's got the commuter line, right?
And so you can get all across Jersey,
but you can get to Manhattan from here, which is nice.
And so you've seen the plans of the house, right?
Tom: I have. This is a big job.
A lot of, uh --
well, we're gonna demo the whole place, it looks like,
and they're gonna find some old bones in there
that might need some reconstructing.
Kevin: Well, we're gonna find out.
And we've got a new contractor we're working with.
I hope you like him. Um, he's a really good kid.
I've known him for years. Tom: Oh. You have?
Kevin: Yeah. We met way back when.
Just kind of stayed in touch. But, you know, he's a young kid.
He always wanted to be a contractor.
He does beautiful work. Tom: I got to break him in.
You don't have to break him in, okay? He's not that new.
What you do have to do, though, is step on it,
because no one else has met him either.
And I want to get to the job site,
introduce Zack to Richard and Jenn.
I don't need them getting there before us. Tom: I'll step on.
Kevin: Yeah, the last thing I need is Richard
giving him a hard time. Tom: Oh, gosh. [ Laughs ]
Jenn: Richard, this is a really beautiful neighborhood. Richard: It is.
Jenn: Hey, you got to move your van before your boss gets here.
Richard: Yeah, we're meeting a Mr. Dettmore,
and if you're going for coffee, I'll take a black.
What do you want? Jenn: Black, please.
Richard: All right. I'll pay.
Kevin: All right.
So it looks like you guys already met Zack, huh?
Hey, Tommy. This is Zack. Zack Dettmore.
Zack: Nice to see you, Kevin.
Kevin: Good to see you, brother. Say hello to Tommy Silva.
Tom: Hey, Zack. Zack: Hey, Tommy. Nice to meet you.
Sonny said some good things about you.
Zack: I hope it's true.
Kevin: Jenn Nawada. Richard Trethewey.
Zack: Oh! Nice to meet you. Jenn: Nice to meet you.
Jenn: Yeah. Kevin: Did you guys not...
Did you -- what... Richard: I didn't know.
Zack: We met. Richard: I was expecting an older guy.
Kevin: Good. I'm glad. All right.
Well, now that we've all met,
we need to meet the homeowners and check out the house.
So, what do you say? Split up, divide and conquer?
Jenn: Let's do it. Kevin: Let's do it.
Hey, would you guys grab some coffees?
Tom: Black decaf. Kevin: And get Zack one.
Richard: Okay, I'll get it. I'll buy.
Kevin: Hey there. Sunita: Hey!
Kevin: You must be Sunita. Sunita: Welcome. Sunita.
Kevin: Thank you. Nice to meet you.
Tom: How are you? Nice to see you. Sunita: Nice to Meet you.
Kevin: Oh, the whole gang is here.
Sunita: I'll introduce you to my husband, Shankar.
Asha is our daughter. And her husband, Jason.
Kevin: Nice to meet you all. Thanks for having us.
Sunita: Likewise. Kevin: So we love the neighborhood.
Yeah, we're glad to be here.
And everything we've seen so far outside is terrific.
Sunita: Oh, we love our neighborhood.
Tom: Man, this is a great old house.
Sunita: We've been here 27 years and looking forward to another,
hopefully, 27 years.
Kevin: So tell us the plan.
Shankar: The plan is the time has come.
It has outlived its purpose.
We want to make it functional going forward.
And so not only for us
but for this -- our daughter's generation as well.
Kevin: Yeah, because you guys are going to move in, right?
Yeah, so the whole idea is we're gonna make it
a multigenerational home.
So the first floor is gonna be a shared living space,
shared kitchen, family room, TV room.
And then the second floor will be mostly
where, uh, our bedrooms are, bathroom there.
And then the third floor will be where my parents stay.
So shared and personal private spaces.
Kevin: Right. Wow. A little unconventional.
I mean, sometimes the parents downsize
and move to a smaller house.
Sometimes the kids buy
a small starter house in the neighborhood.
But why are you guys doing this?
Jason: Well, we love the neighborhood.
Um, and we want to raise a family here.
And we also want to be close to her parents.
So it just made sense for us to, you know,
work with them to turn this into a multigenerational home.
Kevin: All right, I guess that means some tours are in order.
Asha: All right, Tommy, I'll show you upstairs.
Tom: I'd love to see it. Lead the way.
Jason: While they're going up, I'm gonna go out back and meet Jenn.
Kevin: Awesome. Sunita: And we'll take you to the first floor.
Kevin: Before we go anywhere, though --
Your foyer, I love it.
I mean, it's dated a little bit, but it's a nice big space.
Sunita: It is. It's a great entranceway into our home,
and we really like it,
but it doesn't have a functional closet
so that when people come in,
there's nowhere to hang your coats.
And you can see the coat rack in there.
So we'd like to build a closet in the front.
Kevin: Instead of the fireplace? Sunita: Yeah.
Well, the fireplace, it's crumbling quite a bit.
Um, and... Kevin: And you don't use it.
Sunita: And we don't use it.
Kevin: Okay. And then what? Sunita: Living room.
Kevin: Oh, wow. Look at this room.
It's gigantic.
It's like a big double parlor. Sunita: It is.
Shankar: But this, we feel that it's too big, really.
Kevin: Formal living room that's never used.
We hear it a lot. It's got a nice fireplace.
I presume this is the backside of the one that's in the foyer.
So this goes away too? Sunita: Yes, that's exactly right.
And what we're going to do, actually, is build --
uh, put a wall in between these two rooms
with large pocket doors on both sides.
Kevin: Here and there.
Sunita: And then we'll use this, for now,
as a formal sitting room.
But in the event that we can't get downstairs --
get upstairs to the third floor, we have a space downstairs
that'll be, uh, very convenient for both of us.
Kevin: Honestly, I love to hear that,
'cause when I hear we're aging in place on the third floor,
I think, "Ooh."
So this is a good option to have.
Sunita: This is a good option.
Kevin: And then this room becomes what
when you divide it off?
Sunita: Our family room. Kevin: Okay.
And when you say family room, Sunita, is this a shared space?
Sunita: Yes, this will be a shared space.
Kevin: Terrific. Okay.
So it's a little bit more intimate.
Sunita: Yeah. Kevin: It's not quite as formal.
Sunita: No, it won't be.
We'll have the TV in here on this wall,
and this wall actually comes down.
What we learned is that
there's a chimney right behind that wall.
Kevin: They're all over the place in these houses.
Sunita: They're all over the place.
And so we're gonna take this down
and open it up into the kitchen.
Kevin: Which is just on the other side?
Can we have a look? Sunita: Yeah.
Kevin: You guys like your wallpaper.
Sunita: Oh, it's a little dated.
Kevin: Ah, the kitchen. Okay. Bit dated too, right?
Sunita: Yeah, it is.
Shankar: Yeah, but it has outlived its purpose as well.
You could tell looking all around
it's kind of an enclosed feel that you get.
There's no -- hardly any window.
Kevin: Yeah, one. That's it.
Shankar: There's only one. You know?
But that side is all enclosed, you know,
so we want to open it up.
Kevin: By taking this wall down. Shankar: Exactly.
Sunita: Right, and it'll be all open from the fam--
from the living room into the kitchen.
Kevin: And then back here, as you say...
Sunita: Is a more intimate area for a breakfast nook
and even a family gathering.
Kevin: And I presume more windows?
Sunita: And more windows along the back. Yep.
And then we're gonna open this up into the mud room
so there's more space to be able to put on your shoes.
Kevin: So when this wall comes down,
what are we converting?
Sunita: Okay. Kevin: What is this in here?
Well, this is a delightful little room.
Sunita: So what we're going to do
is have along this wall cabinets,
with our kitchen sink here.
Kevin: Right.
Sunita: And farther down we're going to have
our induction stove.
Kevin: Okay.
Sunita: And on this side what we're gonna have
is a peninsula.
Kevin: Oh, looking out onto the new open space.
Sunita: Into the new open space
so that there's a lot of space for everyone to sit and talk.
Shankar: This used to be my mother's room...
Kevin: Oh!
Shankar: ...when she used to live with us.
Kevin: With you and your children were here? Shankar: Yes.
Kevin: So this is not the first multigenerational trip for you.
How did that go? Shankar: It went really well.
Sunita: It was great.
Shankar: Our kids, you know,
they took care of my mother.
And maybe that learning kind of, you know, got ingrained in them.
And part of the reason, I think -- or we think --
that Asha wants to move with us,
is to have that ingrained desire to take care of us when we age.
Kevin: Good for you. That's awesome.
I'm making notes. [ Laughter ]
Mom and Dad, you can't move in.
All right, uh, and then over here?
Sunita: Okay, so this wall actually comes out
into a dining room.
Kevin: Let's have a look over there.
Oh, okay. Formal dining room as well.
Does it get use?
Shankar: Yes, we use it when we have, you know,
friends, visitors, guests.
When you have a big gathering, family,
this is the dining room we use.
Kevin: And so if that wall comes down,
does it stay a formal dining room?
Sunita: It actually will stay a dining room,
but it will be more connected with the rest of the kitchen
and the rest of the house so there's more flow
and it'll probably get a lot more use...
Kevin: Probably.
Sunita: ...because it's not so separated
from the rest of the house.
Kevin: Okay, a lot of walls coming down.
So opening it up, and as you say,
making it sort of more contemporary,
giving it new life for the new way you're gonna use the house.
Sunita: Right. Shankar: Absolutely.
Kevin: Beautiful. Great bones, and you got great space.
Sunita: Thank you. Shankar: Thank you.
Asha: All right, Tommy, let me show you the second floor.
Tom: Okay.
Asha: So, currently we have three bedrooms --
my brother's existing room,
my current bedroom in this corner.
Tom: Okay. That's a big bedroom.
Asha: It's pretty big. It's nice.
Um, and then the primary suite on this side.
Tom: Okay. So this is your parents' place here?
Asha: Yes. Tom: Oh, yeah. Good.
Two big rooms. Nice. And a bathroom.
Asha: And a bathroom. Tom: All right.
Asha: And then for the third floor,
which is where my parents are staying,
this is the current staircase.
Tom: Oh, yeah. You don't use that space up there much, do you?
Asha: Not too much. Um, it's mostly storage.
There is a bedroom up there, but it needs some work.
Tom: Okay. So what's happening here?
Asha: So this staircase is actually moving
into this area over here.
Tom: All right, so the stairway that's over there
is actually gonna come in here,
and it's gonna go up like that.
So you're really gonna lose a lot of this room.
Asha: Exactly. Tom: It's gonna be a hallway, like?
Asha: It'll be a lot more like a hallway.
And it'll be much more accessible
to get to the third floor.
Yeah, that's true. That's true.
And so actually,
the, uh, new entrance to the corner room,
my original room, will be right here.
Tom: Oh, good, so you come down the hallway,
you can go into that room there,
up the stairway, or to your bedroom.
Asha: Exactly. Tom: Nice.
Asha: And so I'll show you into the primary suite here.
Tom: All right. Lead the way.
Asha: So this is a great room. We're gonna make it even bigger.
So right here, the wall stops,
but we're actually gonna extend it all the way over.
Tom: All the way over to the gutter?
Asha: Yes, exactly. Tom: Whoa, that's quite a way.
Asha: So that way, and then we're also extending it
all the way to the end of the roof that way.
Tom: Wow. That's gonna make this room huge.
Asha: Yeah. So it's gonna be our primary suite.
So, bedroom, closet, bathroom.
And this area here will be the office.
Tom: Oh, so now this is really nice space.
Divided up nice. All right. This is gonna be great.
Well, I want to see what you're gonna do with your old bedroom.
The big one. [ Chuckles ] Asha: Let's go.
Tom: All right.
So is this door closing up?
Because I know there's a new door going in down there.
Asha: Exactly, so the entrance to this room
will be in this corner here.
Tom: Okay, great. Asha: Yep.
So the entrance here, and then the fireplace is coming out.
So since we'll have the space there,
the closet is gonna go there.
Tom: All right, so this doorway goes.
And then what happens out here?
Asha: All right, so this main bathroom will go.
And it's actually gonna go in a more central location
of the floor which is actually right about here.
Tom: All right, so the bathroom will go here.
This will go away.
And then what happens with the bathroom?
Asha: So that bathroom will go,
and then this room will extend into the space
where the bathroom was.
Tom: All right, so this gets blocked up,
a new wall gets put all the way across here.
Asha: All the way across here.
Tom: And a doorway to lead into this room where?
Asha: Right about here. Tom: All right.
And what happens with this wall?
Asha: So this wall will go, and the end of this room
will be where the end of the bathroom currently is.
Tom: Wow, that's gonna be a big bedroom.
Asha: It's a big bedroom. Yep. Tom: All right. So now what?
So when I come out of here, I've got a bathroom over here.
And we're gonna lead into here. What's going on here?
Asha: And then on the left side here
we're gonna have a laundry room.
Tom: Oh, yeah. A nice big laundry room. Asha: Right.
Tom: And what happens with that bathroom?
Asha: So this bathroom will go.
This is actually gonna be an entranceway
into the primary suite right here.
Tom: Oh, there's a new suite there.
Okay, I see.
So you can come up the stairs, come around,
go to the bathroom in there,
and then come into your suite here.
Asha: Exactly. Tom: Very nice.
Very nice. I like it.
Asha: Yeah. Tom: A lot going on up here.
Asha: A lot going on. Tom: Wow.
♪♪
Kevin: Hey, Richard. Richard: Hi there.
Kevin: You think you got it all figured out?
Richard: Yeah, a little history lesson.
I mean, this building built in 1880.
It's fun to sort of think about
how it has been heated through all that time.
It was heated then and now by steam.
Kevin: Still? Wow.
Richard: So this is a steam boiler, still operational.
You can see the big piping right here.
And what happens is the original boiler has water in it
in the bottom, it would be heated up,
turn that water to steam.
It would go up through every single radiator
throughout the building, heat the whole building.
That steam would turn to water.
It would fall back to be here and be reheated.
Okay? And it's still in place.
Except there's a little bit of evolution I want to talk about.
The fuel choices have changed.
This originally started as a coal bin.
Coal chute right here. This would have been stacked.
Somebody would have actually taken a shovel
and stoked it into a burner right here
that would have had a stoker.
Now, probably in the late '40s,
I can see here that they added an oil burner.
Oil was the magical new fuel
'cause you didn't have to shovel.
Kevin: Yeah, right.
Richard: So it was this quiet burner
that sat inside the big old cast-iron boiler
that used to be here, and it would just heat up.
And that was so automatic compared to having to shovel.
Kevin: But it was still making steam. Richard: Absolutely.
So it makes steam and fill up to the building.
Okay, but then we had the fuel crunch in the late '70s,
and I'm sure that it would have been,
"How do I now -- I can't afford to heat
this whole building anymore."
And so what you can see right here
is actually an interesting --
there's a heat exchanger down inside this boiler.
Now, it sits below the water line that's down at the bottom.
And now they could heat the water and add a pump,
and they could actually pipe it over to baseboard
in that first-floor back room
so that they could get this cocoon space.
Kevin: So this is in addition to the steam.
That's just a separate zone?
Richard: Absolutely.
It works as a heat exchanger off of the steam boiler.
And the challenge is, what you want to do,
is leave the steam off but leave the boiler hot enough
to be able to heat that little space.
Kevin: It's a big house. Richard: It is.
And so that would give you a little cocoon space
to be able to survive the winter.
And that's what everybody in these big houses
really wanted to find a place.
Kevin: Yeah, yeah. Gotcha.
Richard: So then that fuel probably got too expensive.
And then you can see that they switched to gas.
So it was coal, oil, gas.
I think this boiler ultimately got changed.
And so it's this evolution.
How do you stay ahead of the cost
of trying to heat these buildings?
Kevin: So if we're still on steam primarily --
I mean, that's still hot right there --
when I walk in and I see what looks like condensate lines,
did they just add air conditioning at some point?
Richard: Yeah, it was more of this evolution
of trying to find comfort in these big buildings.
This has condensers outside,
really efficient heat pump condensers.
And they come into these distribution boxes.
And this goes out to individual
wall cassettes or high wall cassettes
and that provide you zoned heating.
But more importantly for people
that want to live in the building, cooling as well.
Again, trying to find this cocoon living
in these bigger houses.
Kevin: All right, so a whole bunch of changes
over the last 130, 140 years.
My question is, what's next for the next 100 years?
Richard: This is a steam system that some of these pipes
have been in for more than 100 years.
This is the opportunity in the building's history
to say let's do it again.
Let's start again from scratch.
We're doing a full gut rehab here,
so we'll probably look at heat pumps
and really zoning this system, making it tight
and then really zoning the system properly.
Kevin: Well, I know that Zack and the homeowners
are gonna appreciate your input on it.
Richard: All right. Kevin: Thank you.
Love the history lessons.
♪♪
Jason: Hi, Jenn. Jenn: Hey, Jason. How are you?
Jason: I'm great. How are you? Jenn: I'm good.
I'm just walking around your property,
tagging things to stay and to go.
Meaning, there's definitely plants around the foundation
that need to come out.
And this dogwood is not one of them.
What I think --
I mean, it's such a cool corridor going to your backyard.
I think they need to be kept,
but they need to be pruned off the house, right?
And then we just reshape them and then
they could just continue growing in their fashion.
Jason: Sounds good. We love that.
Jenn: Awesome. I love it too.
This Japanese holly anchors this end of the house.
I think it should stay.
It just needs to be protected
when all the workers are flying around, right?
The front foundation,
all of these plants have seen a better day.
They've outgrown their space.
Jason: Right. Jenn: What do you think?
Jason: Yeah, we could see them go.
Jenn: Okay, because it's gonna --
It's gonna let everything breathe
and it'll be refreshed and cleaned.
And what's your take on these hollies?
Jason: Well, as you notice,
we can't see the street from here.
It blocks the front door.
And we'd really like to be able
to see out into the front yard.
Jenn: Just to open it up. Jason: Yes.
Jenn: Especially if everything's gonna be new,
it's going to be showcasing a beautiful new area.
I mean, over here you have
so many beautiful trees on your property.
This Japanese maple is spectacular.
The shape -- it's just -- it's so beautiful.
So this is all staying, in my opinion.
Jason: I agree.
And you should see this in the fall.
Jenn: Oh, I'm sure it's a showcase.
Like the brilliant fall colors.
One more question. What about the front walkway?
Jason: Well, you know, now that you bring it up,
the concrete we're not really sure
we want to keep anymore.
We're thinking that we'll go with brick
because we think that it'll really be a nice accent
to the entrance of our new home.
Jenn: Just changing the material will change everything, right?
It'll be so inviting.
You get rid of the hollies in the front,
and then you have a whole new entryway.
Curb appeal.
Jason: I like it. Jenn: All right.
Tom: Zack, I like the house. What do you think?
Zack: I'm pretty excited about this house.
I think it's got good structure on the inside.
The foundation seems good.
What I'm a little concerned about
is the exterior package on this house.
Tom: Yeah, well, it's got the old asbestos siding on there.
Probably done in the '50s or '60s.
And they put that on because people were tired
of doing the maintenance of the wood.
But you're gonna take that off, and then what?
Zack: Then we're basically going to
take in all the historic details
so we can re-create those,
and we're gonna remove all of the exterior trim
and clapboards and shakes so we can re-create that
but with an airtight barrier
around the exterior of the house.
Tom: Tighten it right up, make it just like new.
That's great. Zack: Exactly. Better than new.
Let me show you what we've got going on on the side.
Tom: That sounds like fun stuff.
Zack: I'm looking forward to this one.
Tom: Yeah. This tree is a little tight to the house.
What's the plan for that?
Zack: Yeah, I'm actually gonna take this whole tree down,
give us some space to work.
All this mechanical equipment is gonna be removed.
We're gonna relocate that
to the other side of the house as well.
Tom: Nice. Well, what's the deal with the windows?
I noticed out back there was a window
had some rotted casing. at one time.
Somebody replaced it.
It also looked like some bad peeling
on the windowsills.
Zack: Yeah, the windows are really in tough shape,
so we're gonna go ahead and remove all of the windows,
all of the trim around them, with more durable --
even though they are gonna be wood windows.
And we're actually gonna put some skylights up there
at that peak there to let more light
into the new living space in the attic.
Zack: So you're doing a new roof.
What about that chimney up there?
Is that is that coming off? Zack: Yeah.
That chimney is actually gonna be completely removed.
There's no need for it anymore.
Tom: That'll give you some floor space inside.
Zack: Yeah. Let me show you the front here.
So the front of the house,
you can see that sort of addition
with the flat roof that's coming over the porch.
We're gonna basically remove that in its entirety
and extend a new second floor addition
all the way to the edge of the porch
and go all the way to the back of the house
to add square footage to the whole second floor.
We're gonna have to re-create that cove detail
that runs just at the top of the second floor,
and that's something I'm a little bit concerned about,
with the complexity, to re-create that.
Tom: Yeah, that roll right there above the windows.
If you look, you can actually see how that's done with
probably some 2", 2 1/4" boards, might be tongue and groove.
And they would roll those right around,
probably on a wooden bracket that they put up there.
Might be straight,
but they would roll the boards right around it.
So this gable end, I'm interested to see
what happens when these shingles come off.
The detail of the existing siding might be similar
to that diamond detail over there.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's up there.
Zack: Yeah, it's funny you bring that up
because the architect actually believes that these three houses
were all built by the same builder,
and he's assuming that there is a detail
that's similar to those diamonds that lingers beneath that,
and that's what the historic preservation
actually approved the plans for.
Let me show you the front porch. Tom: Okay.
I love seeing these old porches
still intact with the old decking.
You can see how the decking runs perpendicular to the house.
It has a slight pitch on it, and it's tongue-and-groove board
so that when the rain gets in there,
it runs down and drips away.
Today everybody builds them level
and they run the decking this way,
and that's not right.
Zack: Yeah, it's true. It seemed to work.
It lasted a long time. Tom: Absolutely.
Look at these front columns right here.
This wall is leaning out a little bit this way.
And the posts are basically going with it.
So I don't think that's right. Zack: Yeah.
We have a historic photo of this house,
and it had a column that ran top to bottom.
And I think by building this wall
and putting this column here,
this is just acting like a hinge and it just wants to fall out.
Tom: Yeah, weak link right there.
That straight column will make a big difference.
Zack: Exactly. Let me show you over here.
Tom: Yeah, I was up here earlier,
and as I walked on this porch,
I can actually start to feel some bounce in this right here.
So something's definitely wrong here.
This corner just rolls right down in the corner.
So it's all rotted in there, that's for sure.
Zack: And it's gonna be easier for us to air-seal the house
and just get this, um, better built
if we just remove it in its entirety.
Tom: Get it out of the way. You can stage it and be safer.
Kevin: Can you guys already imagine your new front porch
when it's all cleaned up?
Sunita: Oh, I can't wait.
Kevin: Like that smile. Like seeing that.
Hey, all right.
You guys got a handle on this whole thing?
Zack: I think we do. I'm excited to get started.
Kevin: Yeah, well, let's do it.
What have we got coming up next time?
Zack: Next time we're gonna start removing
this asbestos siding
and start the interior demolition.
Kevin: Good. Progress.
All right, well, we are underway here in new Jersey.
So until next time, I'm Kevin O'Connor.
Tom: I'm Tom Silva.
Zack: And I'm Zack Dettmore.
Kevin: For "This Old House."
All right, here we go, guys. Buckle up.
Shankar: Thanks a lot. Tom: I'm excited.
Kevin: Next time on "This Old House"...
Tom: We're gonna take this chimney down
the opposite way it went up -- one brick at a time.
Kevin: And we'll hear the plan to restore
the original Victorian character to our home.
I mean, it's nice that when this gets bumped out,
it lines up with the edge of the house.
And over here, when this gets extended,
it ends up at the edge of the house, as well.
Man: We line up the windows, as well.
Richard: And we'll learn how and why
these historic gas lanterns are still in use
here in Glen Ridge.
Kevin: That's next time.